January 26, 2023 • 47 mins
While we gear up for the next season of Science Connections: The Podcast, we're revisiting some of our favorite conversations from past seasons!
In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he sits down with physicist and science education specialist, Desiré Whitmore. Listen in as Desiré explains her work at the Exploratorium, a public learning laboratory. Eric and Desiré discuss finding passion in science, the importance of meeting students we’re they’re at, and K–8 science instruction with real-life connections. Desiré chats with Eric about her work on supporting the science of teaching science content at the Exploratorium museum.
Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think it, it's really amazing when we can
realize as teachers, like, no,our job is not to just enforce
rules on our students, right?
Our job is to like help studentsto achieve more learning.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to Science Connections.
I'm your host Eric Cross.
Now, before we get to today'sepisode, I want to give you a
little peek behind the sceneshere at the podcast.
We're currently working on whatI think will be an awesome third
season of the show, and in thecoming weeks I'll be able to
give you more details aboutwhat's ahead.
In the meantime, while we'regetting that ready, we're going
(00:37):
to feature a couple of ourfavorite conversations from the
first two seasons.
To start off, we're sharingsomething from the very first
season of the show.
Actually, it's just our secondepisode.
It's a conversation withphysicists and science education
specialist Dr.
Desiree Whitmore.
Desiree is held positions as ascience curriculum specialist
with amplified science, aprofessor of laser and photonics
(01:00):
technology at Irvine ValleyCollege, and is now the senior
physics educator in the TeacherInstitute at the Exploratorium
in San Francisco.
I think Desiree's perspective isso valuable to share.
In this episode.
She talks about her currentwork, helping middle and high
school science teachers to teachthrough inquiry.
She also discusses her ownpathway into physics, including
(01:20):
some at-home experimentsinvolving a microwave, and she
talks about the impact ofeducators in her life and the
importance of representation inthe classroom for students,
including her younger self.
We've spent the past few yearstalking about the importance of
these topics, but there's stillmore work that needs to be done
to ensure all students haveaccess to teachers in the
classroom who they can identifyand connect with.
(01:43):
And with that said, here's myconversation with Dr.
Desiree Whitmore.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Alright,
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So just, just like a superhero stem superhero, you
have an origin story and so long
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Is this podcast gonna be cuz I, you know, I can talk
for days.
You I
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Know, I know, but it's, it's, so, okay.
Well, you can give us ahighlight so, you know, like 30
minutes.
Um, but like, what, what wouldbe like the origin story?
You can start from any point intime, but how, what's that
journey like?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I'm gonna start at the beginning when I was really
young, just because I think it'simportant.
Um, like neither of my parentswere college educated.
My mother didn't finish highschool.
Uh, my father went back and gota G E D later, right?
But my father's grandmother, hername was Claudia Pers, and she
(02:38):
was a teacher, right?
So when I was a kid, sheactually kind of raised me from
like, I don't know, until I wasaround seven or eight.
And so she was like veryimportant in like, who I became,
I think because she taught methat like, college is important
and she taught me to think, shetaught me to ask questions,
(03:01):
right?
She taught me like how to askquestions, just like the
Exploratorium likes to do, whichis like why I fit so well here.
Like, she taught me to alwayswonder and always think about
things.
And I remember as a kid, she,you know, she taught me to count
and read and write when I waslike three.
And she would always like, havebubbles at her house.
And I was obsessed with bubbles.
(03:23):
Like I thought bubbles were thecoolest thing in the world.
And just how, like, you can takeyour breath and create this
thing that now you can see, andit's your breath, right?
It's like your breath inside ofa bubble and it's flying around
and it has all these cool colorsand then it would like fly up
and then eventually just pop.
And you're like, where did itgo?
(03:44):
Like now my breath is just upthere not understanding as a
kid, but like my breath isalways everywhere.
I didn't understand any of that,but I understood that my breath
was inside of a bubble.
Mm-hmm.
.
But that's like my earliestmemory of thinking about science
was from that.
And she was not a scienceteacher.
She was, I don't even know whatshe taught.
I think she was an elementaryschool teacher, maybe.
Um, she died when I was 12.
(04:05):
So I don't have like, superstrong memories or of
understanding who she was, youknow, only that she raised me
and like what she taught me as akid.
But that in itself like reallyhelped me because then when I
was in the environment that Iwas in at home with my parents,
which was not at all like theenvironment she provided for me,
(04:28):
I always had the things shetaught me in my head, right?
So I was always askingquestions.
My mother hated it.
I was always like taking thingsapart and putting them back
together.
So I used to take apart like TVsand BCRs and vacuum cleaners and
telephones, and my mother'slike, oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna murder you.
And she tried couple times.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Did you ever put'em back together and realize you
had extra parts?
You're like, oh, hi, I
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Oh yeah.
All time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like VCRs have a lot of extrapieces.
You're like, what do you, itstill works.
Like, it's fine.
You know?
Um, and vacuum cleaners too.
They had a lot of extra parts, all the time.
And TVs.
I should not have been playingwith TVs.
But like I said, I didn't have alot of like, parental, um,
(05:12):
guidance as a child.
So like whatever I'm opening upTVs, um, there's
Speaker 2 (05:17):
A lot of open inquiry going on in Yeah.
In your household.
Yeah.
Uh, unsupervised.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Unsupervised.
But I didn't know what it was orwhat it meant as a kid.
Right.
Um, I mean, I used to put thingsin the microwave.
I did so many microwaveexperiments as a child trying to
cook different foods or likemelt different things.
And so I think those kinds ofexperiences, like where I was
allowed to just be curious, kindof shaped who I am today.
(05:43):
Right.
And then, and then I kind of gotinto, you know, when I was in
school, I loved math.
In 10th grade, I had my firstblack teacher, he was my
chemistry teacher, his name wasMr.
Strickland.
And I was like, chemistry iscool dude.
And he was not the best teacher,but he was fun.
Like you were saying, he waslike me mm-hmm.
(06:04):
.
And he was talking to us the wayI speak.
And he was so like, just kind ofchill and happy go-lucky, I
guess.
And then, but he wasn't, hehadn't taught chemistry in a
long time, so, um, he wasn'tvery good teacher.
And me and one other kid in theclass would, were like in love
with chemistry.
And so we would read the bookand do all the homework and he'd
(06:27):
be in class lecturing and we'relike, that's not right, Mr.
Strickland, like, what are youtalking about?
And then he'd be like, oh,really?
Desiree, do you wanna teach theclass?
Then I'll be like, yeah.
And so I would go up and I wouldteach my chemistry class in high
school because the teacher wastrying to make an example out of
me.
But he was also, I think likewilling to be like, I really
(06:47):
don't know.
So, and I really appreciatedthat, that he wasn't just like,
I know all of the answers andyou're wrong.
Like, he wasn't being a jerk.
Right?
Like, the fact that I said yes,I do wanna teach it and he
actually let me do it.
That's pretty dumb.
Right.
You know?
And then I liked physics in mysenior year in high school, but
I didn't think it was like whereI was gonna go or anything.
(07:10):
I loved music and I loved math.
Those were my two subjects.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
What was it about math that like resonated with
you?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I think it helped me understand the world a lot
better.
Like, I didn't have strongscience teachers, I guess
growing up.
Um, it was a lot of like readingout of books or like watching
laser discs in class, you know,that's how old I am.
Laser discs.
Laser discs.
Um, and uh, you know, so therewasn't a lot of, and I moved
(07:39):
around a lot as a kid.
Mm-hmm.
.
So I didn't have just like thisstraight curriculum, you know,
in one year, like in the thirdgrade I went to three different
schools, right?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
It was kinda hard for me to like latch onto school.
Um, but with math, because Icould, I could look at math and
like actually understand theworld in it.
I could see how like math can beused to describe how things
work.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I almost imagine like the, especially with so much
transition in your life, like,it, it, it helped make sense of
things.
You, I mean, you had a lot oftransition going on, but you
were able to understand theworld through these, through the
process of math.
And then this early exposure.
It kind of reminds me like myown story too, because there
were these books that would dothese cross sections of like a
(08:24):
cruise ship or a machine.
That's what got me really intoengineering.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
It like how, kinda how stuffworks.
I would watch that on Nova, likehow stuff works that I'd always
be fascinated.
Even Sesame Street had to se hada segment where they would show
you like crayons and how the dyewas added.
You
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Remember that?
Yep.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Young Desiree doing photonics, photonics,
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Photonics,
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Photonics, photonics at home with their microwave and
all these other things,
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Uh, about
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Right.
And then, and then gra likeloving math.
So you, early I could see thislike combination sort of like
this alchemy help happeninginside you.
And then how does, how did thatlead to you becoming a
physicist?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's not as straightforward as it seems it
should be.
It's obvious to everyone.
, but it wasn't obviousto me cause I wanted to be a
lawyer, you know, because myparents weren't educated.
They didn't really know both ofmy parents and their subsequent
spouses when they broke up.
So my, my parents and mystepparents are all bus drivers.
And so they don't know whatoptions are.
(09:29):
Right.
So for them it's like, you haveto be, you can be a doctor, you
can be a lawyer cuz you'resmart.
I know you're smart, so you'regonna be one of those things.
And it was like, I don't wannabe a doctor.
Like, that's not actuallyinteresting to me.
I did wanna be a teacher when Iwas younger because I knew that
my grandmother was one.
But yeah, I went in and I waslike, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm
gonna be a lawyer.
And then I go to college and Iwas like, eh, I don't.
(09:50):
I hate writing.
Like I love reading, but I don'tlike writing.
So I don't think I wanna be alawyer.
I love music and I love math.
I was originally going to majorin music and math, but then I
went to community collegebecause I missed my opportunity
to go to university for longstory.
And so I'm at community collegeand I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna just do something new.
I'm gonna be like a marinebiologist.
(10:10):
So my major was marine biology,and then they're helping me pick
out my classes.
And they had zero math there.
And I was like, um, pardon me.
I think there's a mistake, butI, I'm not taking any math.
And they were like, no, you'redone with all your math.
Like for marine biology, youonly need calculus and you took
all of that in high school, soyou're done.
And I was like, no, this is notgonna work for me, dude.
(10:32):
So I continued taking calculusanyway and moving on in math and
then I realized that biologywasn't what I needed.
Okay.
But I did love my chemistry andI loved my physics classes.
So I asked those teachers,chemistry, physics and math
teachers in community college.
My professors, I don't wanna bea marine biologist and I don't
wanna be a lawyer.
(10:53):
Like what do I do?
What do you think I could study?
I really like chemistry and mathand physics.
And so all of them, all three ofthese professors told me, oh, it
sounds like chemical engineeringwould be good for you, so you
should be a chemical engineer.
And I was like, okay, cool.
No problem.
That's what I did.
So I got my degree in chemicalengineering, right.
(11:13):
And I, I finished communitycollege studying chemical
engineering.
I was like, this is really cool.
This is a lot of fun.
Like, I love engineering.
And then I transferred to UCLAas a chemical engineering major.
And I was like, I hate this.
Like I hate it a lot.
Um, it
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Was, what was it, what was it about chemical
engineering that you were likejust not feeling anymore?
What was it that just made yougo?
Nope,
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It didn't, at least the way it was taught to me.
Um, it wasn't as like as exexploratory, I guess.
Like there was, there wasn't alot of theory in it.
There was just a lot of like,okay, pull out a ruler and
you're gonna draw a thing andthen this is how you're gonna
(11:56):
build a reactor.
And like, it didn't seem veryscientific to me.
Like the science was missing.
And it don't get me wrong, Iunderstand now that I have a
degree in chemical engineeringthat it's not that, it's that
chemical engineering is notscientific, but it's that you,
you build up the science andthen you don't focus on it.
You focus on the engineeringaspect of it, which is like, you
(12:18):
have the science and thescientists will work on that
aspect mm-hmm.
, but then how canwe do kind of larger batch
chemistry, right?
Mm-hmm.
.
And for me that was just lessinteresting.
It was a lot of like pushingbuttons and just plug and play
equations kind of stuff.
Instead of like diving into likefirst principles of like why
(12:41):
things happen in chemicalengineering.
There was no why things happen.
It was like, this is whathappens.
So this is the next step.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You had to go so far into your, your academic career
to realize that this is whatchemical engineering is.
And we were talking aboutrepresentation and like not have
, or not having examples or likeparents, you know, your, your,
uh, your families were, wereyour family members were bus
drivers.
My, my mom was a, you know,receptionist and executive
(13:08):
assistant, things like that.
And I was a first of many.
Like you, we kind, you kind ofhad to go through and invest all
this time and money to finallyget to this place to realize
this ain't it.
Like this is,
Speaker 1 (13:21):
This is not me.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
This is not for me.
That, that was the Yeah, thatwas a lot, a long journey to get
to that point.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It was.
Especially because I wentthrough community college
mm-hmm.
and I took a longtime in community college cause
I was working full-time, right.
So I was working full-time,going to community college.
Took me a while and then Ifinally get to ucla.
I'm like, yeah, I'm finallygonna get my degree and go make
money.
And then I was like, Ooh,.
No.
I mean, I could go and makemoney, don't get me wrong.
(13:47):
I could have graduated and madea ton of money, but it, I was
not happy at all and I did notenjoy what I was doing.
So, um, while I was anundergrad, I realized I don't
wanna do chemical engineeringanymore, but what do I wanna do?
Right?
But then I was taking like, um,I took a quantum mechanics class
and that class blew my wholemind.
(14:08):
And I was like, this is thecoolest thing that I've ever
learned in my life and this iswhat I wanna do.
Right.
And so I went and talked to myprofessor and I was like, can I
work for you?
Like, can I do research?
Um, because this is amazing andI wanna do this.
Right.
I felt like it was too late forme.
I had been in school for so longand I was already kind of burnt
(14:29):
out.
So I was like mm-hmm.
, I'm not going tochange my major.
That's just outta the questionfor me right now.
It costs so much money for thisdegree and I don't have, I'm not
just gonna waste my time andkeep working all these jobs.
So I had three jobs in collegeand it was like, I don't, you
know, I worked at Radio Shack, Idid research for this professor
and I worked in the library, thechemistry and, and physics.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love, I love the fact that we, we've talked about
laser discs, you said RadioShack and we talked about the
analog internet of those libraryor the, uh, encyclopedia
salespeople that I've andI know all of those things.
And I've been through all ofthose things together.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Case how old I am.
Yes.
I,
Speaker 2 (15:10):
For our listeners who are way younger, uh, yeah.
This is how we grew up.
This is how we, this is these,these things are like extincted
now.
There's, there's this elementof, of this kind of cultural
connection.
I think that we experience that.
It's kind of like it flies underthe radar.
We, people don't really realizeit until you're in an
environment that's differentfrom what you're used to mm-hmm.
(15:31):
and you realizethat, oh wow.
Like this is, this is not, notwhat I'm used to.
And the things that I'm findingfunnier, the things that I
connect with, uh, it's not whateverybody else connects with.
And, and as a teacher, it's thesame thing, right?
Like, we go in the classroom andyou know, we we're, you and I
are rapping about laser discsand, and Radio Shack and I'm
trying to talk to my kids aboutit.
(15:52):
And they're like, yo, cross,like, what is, what is that?
Are you gonna give us a historylesson?
Like what is, what are thesethings?
Yeah.
And I find I, I found myselfhaving to stay connected to pop
culture.
Um, because I teach 12 and 13year olds all day.
Mm-hmm.
.
And it's great for keepingthings relevant for my students.
(16:13):
But when I talk to my friendsthat are my peers, they're like,
unless they're a teacher,they're like, I, I got no idea
what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah.
I have a friend who's also amiddle school teacher and she's
always coming to me with allthis.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
She did the glow up challenge,but she did the glow down
challenge.
So she like invented a new thing.
She's like, no, I couldn't doglow up cuz that's like too
much.
So I did the glow down challengeand it's the cutest thing ever.
It's and the studentsthink it's amazing.
(16:39):
And I'm like, that's awesome.
But I have no idea what thepoint of that is.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
The, and this, there's this theme too that,
that, you know, when we talkabout, you know, teaching,
teaching kids stem, like beingable to, there's this soft part
of it, this this relationalpiece of it that you mentioned
of like this connective aspectthat in a certain way kind of
even superseded the, the contentknowledge that your teacher even
(17:06):
had at that point where you'regoing up and teaching the class
mm-hmm.
.
But just the fact that someonelooked like you or spoke like
you or connected with you in acertain way made a big
difference to who you are as a,as well the trajectory of where
you went.
Like, yeah, I like, I likechemistry.
It resonates with me and it,it's something I think can get
lost.
And I think just to kind of agood segue, like I, I use
(17:29):
Amplify my classroom and one ofthe reasons why is because of
the representation that is inthese videos.
And you were part of craftingthis for, uh, you know, was it,
was it the fifth grade
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Or, I mean it was K eight so I was ok,
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So you were doing the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I was a part of the K eight, uh, science team.
My title was like sciencecurriculum specialist.
But in reality I was hired to dothe engineering internships
mostly.
Mm-hmm.
, which are likemiddle school mm-hmm.
and to, um, be asim developer.
So Sims K eight, I worked onseveral of them in both middle
(18:08):
school and elementary.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What was that, what was that like for you?
Like when you were designingcurriculum?
Cause as a teacher it's, youknow, I think with teachers it's
kind of like the, I'm a, I wouldconsider myself if I was gonna
use hip hop as a metaphor, I'mmore of a de more of a DJ than
an mc.
Where like I wanna remix kind ofthings that exist versus I don't
wanna write the lyrics infreestyle.
(18:31):
So like, I don't want to go andwrite the curriculum completely.
I want to take something that'ssolid and then I want to go
ahead and remix it.
You are great to both.
What was the process like foryou?
Like being on that teamdesigning?
Like how did you go aboutmaking, okay, we're gonna create
this experience for kids?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It was, it was amazing, like it's, I
learned so much, so much.
Like it was the best job I hadbefore I came to the
Exploratorium, right?
The process was amazing becauseit wasn't just me, right?
I can't, it wasn't just me, itwas a whole team and each unit
had its own team, right?
So we had a scientist, which Iwas the scientist we had, so we
(19:11):
had a scientist, we had aliteracy specialist because it
was really important to kind ofincrease science literacy so
that students understand like,not just, not just that science
exists, but like what are theterms that are used in science
and how can I speak and act likea scientist?
Right?
What are the things thatscientists actually do in their
(19:33):
real life?
Then we had an assessmentspecialist and then we had a
simulation specialist.
And so on the units that I wason, sometimes I was both the sim
developer and the scientist, orsometimes I was just the sim
developer and I got to workalongside another scientist,
which was always fun.
Um, and so it was really nicebecause I was working alongside
master teachers, right?
(19:55):
People who had been teaching foryears and they were able to help
me better understand, like, cuzI'll come in and I'll be like,
yeah, there's a unit on lightwaves, let's come in and teach
this unit on light waves, right?
I I was the sim developerand scientist on that unit, and
there was another scientistworking on the unit, but they
were like, well, Desireeliterally builds lasers, so I
(20:17):
think she should be the sciencedeveloper.
So we kinda had two sciencedevelopers on that one, which
was fun.
But I come in and so, you know,she'll come in and she'll be
like, yeah, I think this iswhere we wanna go and this is
what we wanna teach.
I'm like, no way.
Like, that's not accurate,right?
And so I can come in, but thenI'm coming in with all this
crazy lingo, right?
I'm up here.
Mm-hmm.
, I'm like, butthen also I have taught kids
(20:40):
about lasers and optics andphotonics my whole career.
So I'm also very capable ofbringing it down to where kids
need it to be.
What I don't know is like howeffective that is, right?
Like, when to do it and when notto do it.
When to bring the level up, whento bring the level down.
And so working alongside theseother teachers and assessors
(21:00):
really helped me to do that.
And so for me it was just, itwas two years of like deep
learning experience.
Um, like I learned every singleday at work, I learned something
new, which is something that Ivalue and I've wanted in my
career, my whole life.
We made active decisions in thatroom.
Like, we want to interviewscientists who are scientists of
(21:23):
color or who have differentabilities or who have different
representations in all kinds ofways, right?
And then we also have these fakeinternships, or even not even
the internships, but just in thegeneral units.
And we actively, like, we wrotescripts for those.
Yeah.
And we actively wrote in thosescripts, like, this is a black
woman, this is an Indian woman,this is a, you know, Jewish man
(21:46):
in a wheelchair.
Like, we specifically dictatedexactly who we wanted in these
videos because we knew thatrepresentation was super
important and we knew that wewanted students to be able to
connect.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right.
One of the things, uh, I, Iappreciate what I'm hearing a
lot and that is the amount ofintentionality that went into
this, but even now is you're reeven now as you're reliving it,
you're, you're still kind ofalmost iterating on how could we
improve it or how can we make itdifferent or, or reach more
(22:18):
people.
And I think that that kind ofgoes towards when we're talking
about including more people andinclusion, like, it's not a
binary thing.
Like you're, you're, you're,it's, you're always modifying,
you're always iterating, you'realways redesigning and improving
to, to, to be more inclusive, toreach more students.
Because you know, to your point,like part of it is yes, we wanna
(22:40):
do this really awesome sciencecurriculum, but the other part
of it is there's more to it thanjust your content.
And I think like now more thanever, you know, I, I, I use, uh,
we just, we just finished the,the, um, food bar unit Mm.
Metabolism.
And in there there's asimulator, they always ask me
when I show the videos, arethese, are these this real situ?
Are these real people?
Are these real situations?
(23:01):
And I, I tell them, I go, well,the story is real, but these are
all fictional actors, but what'sactually happening happens.
It's it's real.
And they get really into it.
And I think one of the otherthings I like is like with your
simulations, especially theengineering units, there's no
one right answer.
(23:21):
In, in some of my students whowant to go into Mr.
Cross, I wanna make the best barperfect 10 best taste cheapest.
And I'm like, all right, goodluck.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, go do that
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Tradeoffs.
And it could happen.
And they're like, they're trying, they get into the code, they
try to, they try to open up theinspect element.
They feel like packers.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, they do.
But these kids like, they're sosmart and they're so
resourceful.
And I'm just thinking like,maybe that's how we challenge
them more, right?
It's like sometimes we can givethem these kinds of things where
it's like, go and create aprogram cuz that's the level
you're at.
Mm-hmm.
go and create thisprogram to do something similar
that's related to the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I've had some of my own students, uh, redesign.
I have one student who redesignsevery assessment I give him.
He, he, I, I give the project, Igive the options for the final
goal.
And he always chooses, if I givethree options, he always chooses
option four.
If I choose two options, he'schoose option three.
And so he'll go into GoogleSheets, he'll, he'll pull all
(24:22):
the data and then he'llconstruct his own kind of
spreadsheet with all theprobabilities of, of different
things.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You should tell this kid to make a GitHub right now
so that he can get a job as soonas he's done.
Yeah.
He,
Speaker 2 (24:35):
He, he's amazing.
And, and he, uh, we did this oneproject, uh, where students had
to design a Netflix show to showtheir understanding of
metabolism.
And they had to do fourepisodes.
So I gave'em a template.
It's not from me, it's from Ithink EdTech picks.org or
something.
And it's, it looks like thewhole, you know, Netflix splash
page.
They took photos, they did thewhole deal.
He created Netflix.
(24:57):
So his, his everyone else didGoogle Slides.
His Google Slides wasinteractive.
So when you clicked on differentboxes, it actually took you to
the next splash page of thatshow.
I mean, it was
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It was, it was.
I I record his presentation.
Uh, it was, it was brilliant.
Um,
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But that's amazing.
And that, that speaks to likeyour strengths as a teacher and
why you're an amazing teacherbecause you see the students and
what they're trying to do andyou work with them, you meet
them where they are.
Right?
Like there are so many teacherswho would just be frustrated
with that student and it'd belike, no, these aren't, these
are not your options.
(25:36):
Like, your option was to do whatI told you to do.
Right.
And there are many teachers whowould do that.
And I think it, it's reallyamazing when we can realize as
teachers, like, no, our job isnot to just enforce rules on our
students.
Right?
I mean, that is part of the jobbecause that's what school was
when it was created.
But our job is to like, helpstudents to achieve more
(25:59):
learning, right.
In what we're trying to do.
And so the fact that you are sogood with this student and that
you encourage him to do, like,to go above and beyond when he
can, I think is like so amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, that, that brings me to my favorite group
organization and the phase ofyour career of where you are
now, the Exploratorium.
And I wanted to, uh, kind ofwrap talking about like what you
do now, uh, because in theExploratorium, I tell people,
(26:33):
they go, what is that place?
And, and maybe you can tell uswhat it is and then what you do.
But for, for me, I'll just telleverybody, it's like Disneyland
for science teachers.
And it, it, I love going there.
I not only love going therebecause of what I receive from
it professionally.
Um, many of the, the, the PDs, Idon't, I don't even call'em PDs,
but like, just communal learningexperiences, uh, that I've had
(26:57):
that have been led by you and,and, uh, and, and Lori and, and
Tammy and the rest and everybody, uh, that's there, um, have,
have been incredible.
And I have so much fun.
E emotionally, I get excitedwhen I go.
I'm like, when I'm on the plane,I'm like, here we go.
And then we go in, we're makingfudge or we're blowing darts
(27:21):
with marshmallows across theroom in the theme of Bobba Fe.
Like there's just these radthings that are going on there.
And it's not like anything I'veever experienced before.
Um, so maybe we can, we canclose with talking about like
what the exploratorium is, whatyou do there kind of, so pe for
people who've never been and,and have been a part of it.
(27:41):
So
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm gonna give you what my definition of the
exploratory is.
That's what we want.
So like, I mean, the actualdefinition is like, we are a
public learning laboratory.
Um, we are known as the Museumof Art Science and Human
Perception.
Cool.
But like what does that allmean?
Right.
And I think your description ofthe Disneyland for science
teachers, I think that's aperfect description.
(28:03):
Cuz for me, I tell people like,oh, I wanna go to the happiest
place on earth.
And for me, that is theExploratorium.
And yes, I work there and yes,it's still true for me.
Right?
So the Exploratorium is thishuge museum.
It's a, it's an interactivescience museum.
Um, and art, we have a lot ofart.
Um, and it's all about learningthrough doing.
(28:23):
We don't really, it's not aboutlearning science By going up to
an exhibit and reading thelittle paper next to it, it's
like, no, you go up to anexhibit and you interact with it
and you teach yourself science.
Right?
The goal of the exploratorium isreally to help people understand
that learning science, doingsciences isn't reserved for only
(28:46):
scientists.
Doing science is something thateveryone in the world should and
does do.
Um, and so helping peopleunderstand that everything we do
is science is kind of the pointof the exploratory.
To me,
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Even the building itself, one of the other cool
things too is like, for peoplethat don't know, it's, it's like
the size of Costco or two, it's
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's, it's immense.
And even the building itselfteaches, like, you have that
whole workshop, like dead centerin the middle of the floor where
they're designing things.
It's like inside out.
And then I remember going to theone experience where I think it
was Eric who showed us that it'sone of the few facilities that
is actually cooled by the BayWater.
(29:27):
Yeah.
And there's only like a coupleof those in the state that can
do that.
And it has like a platinumrating, something wild like
that.
Um, so even like just thebuilding itself, like everything
that if they can extract everyounce of science teaching in
that, it's, it's, it's in there.
And yeah.
You are in a very importantprogram for me.
(29:51):
And, um, can you talk a littlebit about maybe what you're
doing?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
So I am in the teacher institute.
I'm a physicist and the teacherinstitute.
And so the teacher institute isa group of teachers and
scientists.
And our job is to basicallysupport middle school and high
school science teachers andteacher leaders in the state of
California, but science teachersaround the world, um, in their
(30:19):
pursuit of science teaching,right?
So, and by support, I mean weprovide professional
development.
I mean, we provide other thingslike communities of practice and
like, um, we go into workshopsin certain places.
We go to, uh, we go to India toteach Tibetan monks and nuns,
(30:40):
um, science.
And we go to Costa Rica to teachteachers all over the state, the
country of Costa Rica, aboutscience.
And so our job is really, uh, tohelp science teachers feel more
secure in their scienceteaching, right?
Mm-hmm.
and help to retainthem in the field because a good
science teacher is so importantin helping our students thrive,
(31:03):
right?
And so our jobs, and we takethis very seriously, is to help
science teachers thrive.
Um, and, you know, we are madeup of PhD scientists and veteran
classroom teachers.
So we have on the one sideteachers who have been teaching
middle school or high school foryears.
Like one of my coworkers, Zeke,who I work with the most, he is,
(31:25):
he was a high school physics andenvironmental science teacher
for 21 years before coming tothe Exploratorium.
And then me, I was never aclassroom teacher, right?
I was a, I was a professor, Iwas a physics professor at a
community college and I was a,you know, a researcher.
So like my, my deep knowledge ofphysics and like current
(31:45):
knowledge of physics orknowledge of current physics
combined with Zeke's, likeextremely, um, experienced
pedagogy is like really how wework together as a team, right?
And it's not just Zeke, right?
We've got a geologist on theteam, Eric Mueller.
We've got Tammy, who's a middleschool bio teacher.
We've got, um, Julie U who is achemical engineer, PhD and also
(32:11):
a prior middle school teacher,former middle school teacher.
We've got Hillary Ossoff, whowas a, uh, PhD biologist who
used to work at the AmericanMuseum of Natural History.
Um, we've got Lori Lambertson,who was a middle school math
teacher.
Um, and so, you know, we allcome together to really bring
(32:34):
our experiences both in and outof the classroom and in and and
out of the research lab to kindof provide teachers with the
best inquiry driven stuff wecan.
And we're very like, we're soequity focused because we
believe that that's important,right?
Like, we know that the impact ofour work is, I think why most of
(32:56):
us are here.
It's why I'm here.
Mm-hmm.
in undergrad, mygrad school and my postdoc, I
would go into classrooms, Iwould go into science museums
and teach science to people.
And I probably reached out tomaybe over that whole time I
would say a couple thousandpeople, right?
Maybe a couple thousand peopletotal.
That's great.
But over 15 years of reachingout to and only reaching a
(33:21):
couple thousand people, that'slike, that's rough, right?
And then now I'm at theExploratorium and I know that if
I reach one teacher, right?
If I can teach one teacher,let's say you, how many students
do you have in your classes ayear?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
200 a year.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You have 200 students a year that you teach.
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
.
So if you teach for 10 yearsmm-hmm.
, right?
That's 2000.
That's 2000 students.
Mm-hmm.
.
So I have, by teaching you todaymm-hmm.
, assuming that I'mactually teaching you something
that's gonna be useful for you.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You do.
And you are,
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You are going to be impacting these 2000 students
over the next 10 years.
And of course you're gonna be inteaching for much longer than
that.
But let's just say in 10 yearsthat payoff is so much higher,
right?
Mm-hmm.
, and you're oneteacher, but I have 30 of you in
my workshop.
Right?
And so if all of these 30teachers each teach 2000 kids
over the next 10 years, thenlike I'm actually doing
(34:15):
something.
I'm actually changing the waythat students see science
through changing the way thatyou see science.
Right?
And so I think I take my jobvery seriously as we all do.
Like, we're so invested in ourteachers.
And it's not that we don't careabout students, cuz we
absolutely do, but we understandthat without good teachers,
students aren't going to be ableto thrive, um, as often as they
(34:39):
would otherwise.
Like I was able to do itsomehow, right?
But I'm one, right?
There are so many other kids whocould have gone into science who
didn't because they, they feltlike they never connected to it.
So our job is to try to helpteachers connect to it.
And an important part of that isallowing you all to experience
science as a learner.
We want you to play and havejoyful experiences.
(35:01):
We want you to enjoy science andto try to think about it from
the perspective of yourstudents, right.
Walk in their shoes so that whenyou're then go back to your
classroom, you are able to likethink about like, oh yeah, you
know, my students totally askedthe same question that I asked
or that another teacher asked inthe workshop because they had
(35:22):
the foresight to think about.
That's what my students wouldask.
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, I think it, it, it, it does a, it's really
effective to create empathy forthe learner because I find
myself in that position.
I, I don't know if some kind oflike memory displacement field
happens to me when I sit inthose workshops, but like
Hillary will ask a question thatI know the answer to and I'm
like, I don't want to answer thequestion.
I don't, I'm, I might be wrong.
(35:46):
I'm like, and I teach thesubject mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
and I embody whatit's like to be a student.
And those, when I leave, I mighthave to go back and reference
exactly what the lesson was, butI remember how I felt when I
didn't know.
And very rarely as teachers dowe get put in positions like
that.
And so it helps me be in theposition of my students
(36:08):
emotionally of what it's like,even even the intentionality of
how you ask questions and notshowing an affect on your face
when somebody says the rightanswer or the wrong answer.
Well,
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I'm still learning that I'm not great at it.
Julie is the math.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Julie's got nailed.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I'm still trying to learn from her.
She's amazing.
And I, I really like to getthere one day, but I'm still not
there.
I'll be like, oh, oh, wellthat's, I have terrible poker
face, so I'll be like, oh yeah,but you think that maybe that's
a piece of it that's reallyimportant, right?
Is like this not giving away theanswer mm-hmm.
even when you havethe right answer.
(36:44):
Like allowing people to ask thequestions and explore, like, and
become invested in the problembefore giving away the answer.
Like that's something that Ilearned here at the
Exploratorium.
And I, like I said, I learnevery day, right?
And it's something that I thinkis so important for us as
teachers to kind of learn andtry to implement.
(37:05):
Because oftentimes you'll comeand you'll have students who are
like, I'm too stupid.
I don't know the answer.
Mm-hmm.
.
And then somebody else will saythe answer.
And then it's like, well, thestudent is like, yeah, I was
right.
I'm too stupid.
But it's like, no, but if youhave that student, actually
think about it, then thestudent, once they do hear the
right answer, they might belike, oh yeah, that one makes
sense.
You know, instead of like, I'mstupid.
(37:26):
It's like, no, this is, Iexplored this and I figured it
out on my own.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Things keep coming back to how this experience and
the process of them learningscience even kind of outweighs
the content of it.
Cuz the content is almost easierto, to, it's easier to share,
it's easier to get, you can lookit up really quickly mm-hmm.
, but in your storyand in many other people's
stories, the exposure, theexperience, how they're going
(37:52):
through that process.
I know that's something thatI've, I learned a lot in just
watching the, not teachingscience, but actually science of
teaching, sitting in theworkshops and like watching how
we're treated as students, howwe, how you interact with us,
and then being able to take thatback to the classroom.
And just to add on to the valuethat it's created.
I think one thing that is alsodone is given us community.
(38:13):
And in addition to being able toimpact students, it's also been
able to build resilience andteachers because we as teachers
can feel very isolated.
Um, and especially now whenthings are incredibly difficult
and everyone, every teacher'sexperiencing, you know, covid
and shutdowns and, and, and lowstaffing across the country in
different ways when you don'tfeel like you have community or
(38:36):
people that you can connect withmm-hmm.
, it just makeseverything feel exponentially
harder.
And you've done a great job atbeing able to build community
with us in our community ofpractice.
The Exploratorium is being ableto do that.
And it's something that I'm, um,super grateful for probably more
than anything else is thatthrough these last two years,
being able to connect reallymade me feel like, okay, we're
(38:57):
gonna, we're gonna be able to dothis.
And it's not just about cross ormy other teacher in, in eighth
grade or my sixth grade teacherwho's doing this.
That message I think is, isreally, really important.
I want to ask this, this, uh,was there a teacher or
experience that impacted you orinspired you throughout your
(39:17):
educational career?
You know, kindergarten, all theway to, to college?
Was there a, a, a moment or an aperson or anything like that
that really stuck with you thatyou felt Maybe influenced maybe
who you became, where you metyou, where you were at?
Um, I know you mentioned your,your, your chemistry teacher at
(39:38):
that point, but is there any,anyone else or, or was it that
person that was really, um, theperson who sticks out for
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You?
There actually have been a few.
Of course, the first is mygreat-grandmother, Claudia pairs
.
But I think in the fourth andfifth grade I had the same
teacher.
She, she stayed with us goingfrom fourth to fifth grade and
fourth grade was a new schoolfor me.
New town.
I was the only like black childin the school.
Me and my sister.
(40:04):
Um, and my teacher recognizedthat I was, I had no real help
at home, I guess.
And she really kind of, she sawthat I was really smart.
She would give me extraassignments when I, she could
tell I was bored.
It meant that someone outside ofmy house cared about me in a way
(40:27):
that like, I didn't feel caredabout at home.
Mm-hmm.
, she, her name isMs.
Mrs.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Like,
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, Mrs.
Fran comment.
And I've tried looking her uplike, you know, as an adult and
I can't find her, but I workwith so many teachers and I know
how hard teaching is and howdegrading it can be or like
demoralizing I guess to like notbe appreciated.
And so I know what it feels liketo me when a student has reached
(40:56):
out and shown me like, Hey, I'mnow in dental school, or I'm now
getting a PhD in science and I'mjust like,
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I got a message this morning on Instagram from a
student and none of my studentsuse their real names and their
Instagram handles handle mm-hmm.
.
So it's like, I got a messagefrom Moonshine and I was
a seventh grade teacher.
And through deduction, deductivereasoning, I figured out who it
was.
Mm-hmm.
, this person's nowin college and they're
responding and that, you know,you get one of those every once
(41:26):
in a while.
Yeah.
And I feel like it just fillsyour tang.
It's just so important that we,it's funny because like kind of
to your point, we don't realizewho or how we're making impacts
on people.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
and in
what ways we just know that we
are.
And uh, you know, and I tell allthe teachers, I said, you're,
you have one of the fewprofessions where you fall
asleep worrying about otherpeople's kids.
And it's the, the words that wespeak, the things that we do,
people are always watching.
I know.
No pressure.
Right?
Yeah.
Hopefully, uh, someone will,will listening find miss, uh,
(41:59):
uh, Ms.
Comment.
Ms comment,
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Elementary school back in the eighties.
But your, your talk about likethis impact, it reminds me of
the thing I wanted to say, but Ididn't.
But I'm gonna tell you rightnow.
Um, you know, so I mentioned my,how science was not a priority
when I went to school in myhometown.
That's Lancaster, California.
(42:24):
Um, but recently I got a phonecall from a family friend and
she was so excited and shecalled me to tell me that her
daughter was super excited whenshe picked her up from school
because I was in her classroom.
She said, auntie Desiree was inmy class today and she does, she
works on lasers and she doesspectroscopy and I wanna learn
(42:47):
about spectroscopy now.
So can we call Auntie Desiree?
And I was like, wait, what?
My friend was kind of confused.
She's like, Desiree didn't tellme she was in town.
Like, she had no idea why herdaughter was saying I was in her
classroom cause I was notphysically there.
Right.
Right.
And then I had to put the piecestogether and I was like, oh my
God, your daughter's in eighthgrade already.
It made me feel really old cuz Iknow this girl from a little
(43:09):
baby.
But I was like, oh my God,that's the eighth grade unit on
light waves for Amplify that Iwrote and I'm featured as the
scientist, right.
Because we have real scientistsin the units.
Right.
Right.
And they featured me in that onein my laser lab.
And so this little girl whoknows me really well, who lives
in my hometown is seeing likerepresentation in science.
(43:30):
She doesn't necessarily know I'ma scientist.
Right.
She knows that I, I don't knowwhat she knows about me.
Like she just knows I'm AuntieDesiree and like, you know, I
like gumbo at Christmas.
Like that's what she knows aboutme,.
And so like she comes back andshe's so excited cuz now she
knows so much more about me andshe knows that like, if I can do
it and I came from where she'sat, she can do it too.
(43:51):
And she was super excited and Iwas like, it brought me to
tears.
I was just like crying in thecar.
I was driving at the timeand I was like, this is amazing
work that I did is teaching youand all of your friends in this
tiny little town that you livein.
And like that to me is like soimportant because now this
little girl knows that like, sheknows me as just a normal human
(44:12):
right.
Who likes Star Trek and StarWars and the Owl House.
Right.
And now she's over here like, ohmy gosh, this normal human like
wrote the science curriculumthat I'm learning from.
Which I think is just like, it'sso fantastic and it really
brought home for me kind of theimportance of my work and why
I'm doing, doing what I'm doing.
And that's pretty awesome.
(44:33):
And I get messages fromInstagram, you know, from
teachers who were like, Hey, didyou work on this?
Cuz you were featured in thevideo, but did you write this
light waves unit?
And I'm like, yeah.
And they'll tell me like, I havestudents, this is their favorite
unit.
I've gotten notes from students,you know, saying like, I, this
was my favorite unit in all ofmiddle school.
And I'm like, oh,,
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Uh, that story just gives me, that story gives me
chills because I just canimagine how surreal that must
feel and it's not like you'redirectly making that impact
mm-hmm.
, um, on thosekids.
And I'm glad that you share thatstory.
Uh, so, so that, uh, everyonecan hear it because it's a, it's
a powerful story and I lived it.
I feel like I was living itthrough you just now as you were
discussing it.
Um, yeah.
(45:16):
And I, I feel that, that way inthe classroom kind of to a small
degree because I get to have,when my students create posters
of scientists mm-hmm.
that we don'ttypically see I've got you on my
list of scientists and they'relike, I was like, I can call her
like Mr.
Cross, you know her.
I was like, yeah, she's a friendof mine.
I was talking to her the otherday and they're like, whoa.
(45:38):
She works with lasers.
I you, Desiree Yeah.
Uh, I've held you for so longand
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yes.
I'm sorry I talk, I told you Italked so much.
I'm a teacher.
No,
Speaker 2 (45:50):
No, no, no, no.
It was great.
I wanna honor your time.
Um, can you tell everybody wherethey can find out more about you
again?
Speaker 1 (45:56):
So first off my, you can find me at, um, you can find
me on Twitter at Darth Science,d a r t h s c i n c e.
And you can also find me atInstagram at Dr.
Laser Chick, Dr.
Laser chick.
Um, even though I don't post onInstagram that much.
(46:16):
Um, I also have a website, whichis laser chick.net.
Um, I'm still working on it.
It's not the best website yet,but, you know, it'll, it'll be
better in the future.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Would you, would you be willing to come back later on
in the year and uh, do a parttwo?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
So I can actually finish tellingyou the story of how I got into
physics.
Cause I totally didn't.
Cause I'm all over the place.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
So, so everybody has to, so the cliffhanger, next
time she comes back, she'llcontinue telling us the story.
Yeah.
Desiree, thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening tomy conversation with Dr.
Desiree Whitmore, which we firstreleased in March of last year.
I hope you enjoyed eitherhearing it again or for the very
first time.
And if you haven't already,please subscribe to this show on
(47:00):
your favorite podcast app.
By doing that, you'll help otherlisteners to find us and please
join our Facebook discussiongroup, science Connections, the
Community stay tuned there andin the Science Connections
Podcast feed for more on what'sto come in season three.
And thank you again forlistening.
I think it, it's really amazing when we can
realize as teachers, like, no,our job is not to just enforce
rules on our students, right?
Our job is to like help studentsto achieve more learning.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to Science Connections.
I'm your host Eric Cross.
Now, before we get to today'sepisode, I want to give you a
little peek behind the sceneshere at the podcast.
We're currently working on whatI think will be an awesome third
season of the show, and in thecoming weeks I'll be able to
give you more details aboutwhat's ahead.
In the meantime, while we'regetting that ready, we're going
(00:37):
to feature a couple of ourfavorite conversations from the
first two seasons.
To start off, we're sharingsomething from the very first
season of the show.
Actually, it's just our secondepisode.
It's a conversation withphysicists and science education
specialist Dr.
Desiree Whitmore.
Desiree is held positions as ascience curriculum specialist
with amplified science, aprofessor of laser and photonics
(01:00):
technology at Irvine ValleyCollege, and is now the senior
physics educator in the TeacherInstitute at the Exploratorium
in San Francisco.
I think Desiree's perspective isso valuable to share.
In this episode.
She talks about her currentwork, helping middle and high
school science teachers to teachthrough inquiry.
She also discusses her ownpathway into physics, including
(01:20):
some at-home experimentsinvolving a microwave, and she
talks about the impact ofeducators in her life and the
importance of representation inthe classroom for students,
including her younger self.
We've spent the past few yearstalking about the importance of
these topics, but there's stillmore work that needs to be done
to ensure all students haveaccess to teachers in the
classroom who they can identifyand connect with.
(01:43):
And with that said, here's myconversation with Dr.
Desiree Whitmore.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Alright,
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So just, just like a superhero stem superhero, you
have an origin story and so long
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Is this podcast gonna be cuz I, you know, I can talk
for days.
You I
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Know, I know, but it's, it's, so, okay.
Well, you can give us ahighlight so, you know, like 30
minutes.
Um, but like, what, what wouldbe like the origin story?
You can start from any point intime, but how, what's that
journey like?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I'm gonna start at the beginning when I was really
young, just because I think it'simportant.
Um, like neither of my parentswere college educated.
My mother didn't finish highschool.
Uh, my father went back and gota G E D later, right?
But my father's grandmother, hername was Claudia Pers, and she
(02:38):
was a teacher, right?
So when I was a kid, sheactually kind of raised me from
like, I don't know, until I wasaround seven or eight.
And so she was like veryimportant in like, who I became,
I think because she taught methat like, college is important
and she taught me to think, shetaught me to ask questions,
(03:01):
right?
She taught me like how to askquestions, just like the
Exploratorium likes to do, whichis like why I fit so well here.
Like, she taught me to alwayswonder and always think about
things.
And I remember as a kid, she,you know, she taught me to count
and read and write when I waslike three.
And she would always like, havebubbles at her house.
And I was obsessed with bubbles.
(03:23):
Like I thought bubbles were thecoolest thing in the world.
And just how, like, you can takeyour breath and create this
thing that now you can see, andit's your breath, right?
It's like your breath inside ofa bubble and it's flying around
and it has all these cool colorsand then it would like fly up
and then eventually just pop.
And you're like, where did itgo?
(03:44):
Like now my breath is just upthere not understanding as a
kid, but like my breath isalways everywhere.
I didn't understand any of that,but I understood that my breath
was inside of a bubble.
Mm-hmm.
But that's like my earliestmemory of thinking about science
was from that.
And she was not a scienceteacher.
She was, I don't even know whatshe taught.
I think she was an elementaryschool teacher, maybe.
Um, she died when I was 12.
(04:05):
So I don't have like, superstrong memories or of
understanding who she was, youknow, only that she raised me
and like what she taught me as akid.
But that in itself like reallyhelped me because then when I
was in the environment that Iwas in at home with my parents,
which was not at all like theenvironment she provided for me,
(04:28):
I always had the things shetaught me in my head, right?
So I was always askingquestions.
My mother hated it.
I was always like taking thingsapart and putting them back
together.
So I used to take apart like TVsand BCRs and vacuum cleaners and
telephones, and my mother'slike, oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna murder you.
And she tried couple times.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Did you ever put'em back together and realize you
had extra parts?
You're like, oh, hi, I
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Oh yeah.
All time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like VCRs have a lot of extrapieces.
You're like, what do you, itstill works.
Like, it's fine.
You know?
Um, and vacuum cleaners too.
They had a lot of extra parts,
And TVs.
I should not have been playingwith TVs.
But like I said, I didn't have alot of like, parental, um,
(05:12):
guidance as a child.
So like whatever I'm opening upTVs, um, there's
Speaker 2 (05:17):
A lot of open inquiry going on in Yeah.
In your household.
Yeah.
Uh, unsupervised.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Unsupervised.
But I didn't know what it was orwhat it meant as a kid.
Right.
Um, I mean, I used to put thingsin the microwave.
I did so many microwaveexperiments as a child trying to
cook different foods or likemelt different things.
And so I think those kinds ofexperiences, like where I was
allowed to just be curious, kindof shaped who I am today.
(05:43):
Right.
And then, and then I kind of gotinto, you know, when I was in
school, I loved math.
In 10th grade, I had my firstblack teacher, he was my
chemistry teacher, his name wasMr.
Strickland.
And I was like, chemistry iscool dude.
And he was not the best teacher,but he was fun.
Like you were saying, he waslike me mm-hmm.
(06:04):
And he was talking to us the wayI speak.
And he was so like, just kind ofchill and happy go-lucky, I
guess.
And then, but he wasn't, hehadn't taught chemistry in a
long time, so, um, he wasn'tvery good teacher.
And me and one other kid in theclass would, were like in love
with chemistry.
And so we would read the bookand do all the homework and he'd
(06:27):
be in class lecturing and we'relike, that's not right, Mr.
Strickland, like, what are youtalking about?
And then he'd be like, oh,really?
Desiree, do you wanna teach theclass?
Then I'll be like, yeah.
And so I would go up and I wouldteach my chemistry class in high
school because the teacher wastrying to make an example out of
me.
But he was also, I think likewilling to be like, I really
(06:47):
don't know.
So, and I really appreciatedthat, that he wasn't just like,
I know all of the answers andyou're wrong.
Like, he wasn't being a jerk.
Right?
Like, the fact that I said yes,I do wanna teach it and he
actually let me do it.
That's pretty dumb.
Right.
You know?
And then I liked physics in mysenior year in high school, but
I didn't think it was like whereI was gonna go or anything.
(07:10):
I loved music and I loved math.
Those were my two subjects.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
What was it about math that like resonated with
you?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I think it helped me understand the world a lot
better.
Like, I didn't have strongscience teachers, I guess
growing up.
Um, it was a lot of like readingout of books or like watching
laser discs in class, you know,that's how old I am.
Laser discs.
Laser discs.
Um, and uh, you know, so therewasn't a lot of, and I moved
(07:39):
around a lot as a kid.
Mm-hmm.
So I didn't have just like thisstraight curriculum, you know,
in one year, like in the thirdgrade I went to three different
schools, right?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
It was kinda hard for me to like latch onto school.
Um, but with math, because Icould, I could look at math and
like actually understand theworld in it.
I could see how like math can beused to describe how things
work.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I almost imagine like the, especially with so much
transition in your life, like,it, it, it helped make sense of
things.
You, I mean, you had a lot oftransition going on, but you
were able to understand theworld through these, through the
process of math.
And then this early exposure.
It kind of reminds me like myown story too, because there
were these books that would dothese cross sections of like a
(08:24):
cruise ship or a machine.
That's what got me really intoengineering.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It like how, kinda how stuffworks.
I would watch that on Nova, likehow stuff works that I'd always
be fascinated.
Even Sesame Street had to se hada segment where they would show
you like crayons and how the dyewas added.
You
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Remember that?
Yep.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Young Desiree doing photonics, photonics,
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Photonics,
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Photonics, photonics at home with their microwave and
all these other things,
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Uh, about
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Right.
And then, and then gra likeloving math.
So you, early I could see thislike combination sort of like
this alchemy help happeninginside you.
And then how does, how did thatlead to you becoming a
physicist?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's not as straightforward as it seems it
should be.
It's obvious to everyone.
lawyer, you know, because myparents weren't educated.
They didn't really know both ofmy parents and their subsequent
spouses when they broke up.
So my, my parents and mystepparents are all bus drivers.
And so they don't know whatoptions are.
(09:29):
Right.
So for them it's like, you haveto be, you can be a doctor, you
can be a lawyer cuz you'resmart.
I know you're smart, so you'regonna be one of those things.
And it was like, I don't wannabe a doctor.
Like, that's not actuallyinteresting to me.
I did wanna be a teacher when Iwas younger because I knew that
my grandmother was one.
But yeah, I went in and I waslike, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm
gonna be a lawyer.
And then I go to college and Iwas like, eh, I don't
(09:50):
I hate writing.
Like I love reading, but I don'tlike writing.
So I don't think I wanna be alawyer.
I love music and I love math.
I was originally going to majorin music and math, but then I
went to community collegebecause I missed my opportunity
to go to university for longstory.
And so I'm at community collegeand I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna just do something new.
I'm gonna be like a marinebiologist.
(10:10):
So my major was marine biology,and then they're helping me pick
out my classes.
And they had zero math there.
And I was like, um, pardon me.
I think there's a mistake, butI, I'm not taking any math.
And they were like, no, you'redone with all your math.
Like for marine biology, youonly need calculus and you took
all of that in high school, soyou're done.
And I was like, no, this is notgonna work for me, dude.
(10:32):
So I continued taking calculusanyway and moving on in math and
then I realized that biologywasn't what I needed.
Okay.
But I did love my chemistry andI loved my physics classes.
So I asked those teachers,chemistry, physics and math
teachers in community college.
My professors, I don't wanna bea marine biologist and I don't
wanna be a lawyer.
(10:53):
Like what do I do?
What do you think I could study?
I really like chemistry and mathand physics.
And so all of them, all three ofthese professors told me, oh, it
sounds like chemical engineeringwould be good for you, so you
should be a chemical engineer.
And I was like, okay, cool.
No problem.
That's what I did.
So I got my degree in chemicalengineering, right.
(11:13):
And I, I finished communitycollege studying chemical
engineering.
I was like, this is really cool.
This is a lot of fun.
Like, I love engineering.
And then I transferred to UCLAas a chemical engineering major.
And I was like, I hate this
Like I hate it a lot.
Um, it
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Was, what was it, what was it about chemical
engineering that you were likejust not feeling anymore?
What was it that just made yougo?
Nope,
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It didn't, at least the way it was taught to me.
Um, it wasn't as like as exexploratory, I guess.
Like there was, there wasn't alot of theory in it.
There was just a lot of like,okay, pull out a ruler and
you're gonna draw a thing andthen this is how you're gonna
(11:56):
build a reactor.
And like, it didn't seem veryscientific to me.
Like the science was missing.
And it don't get me wrong, Iunderstand now that I have a
degree in chemical engineeringthat it's not that, it's that
chemical engineering is notscientific, but it's that you,
you build up the science andthen you don't focus on it.
You focus on the engineeringaspect of it, which is like, you
(12:18):
have the science and thescientists will work on that
aspect mm-hmm.
chemistry, right?
Mm-hmm.
And for me that was just lessinteresting.
It was a lot of like pushingbuttons and just plug and play
equations kind of stuff.
Instead of like diving into likefirst principles of like why
(12:41):
things happen in chemicalengineering.
There was no why things happen.
It was like, this is whathappens.
So this is the next step.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You had to go so far into your, your academic career
to realize that this is whatchemical engineering is.
And we were talking aboutrepresentation and like not have
, or not having examples or likeparents, you know, your, your,
uh, your families were, wereyour family members were bus
drivers.
My, my mom was a, you know,receptionist and executive
(13:08):
assistant, things like that.
And I was a first of many.
Like you, we kind, you kind ofhad to go through and invest all
this time and money to finallyget to this place to realize
this ain't it.
Like this is,
Speaker 1 (13:21):
This is not me.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
This is not for me.
That, that was the Yeah, thatwas a lot, a long journey to get
to that point.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It was.
Especially because I wentthrough community college
mm-hmm.
I was working full-time, right.
So I was working full-time,going to community college.
Took me a while and then Ifinally get to ucla.
I'm like, yeah, I'm finallygonna get my degree and go make
money.
And then I was like, Ooh,
No.
I mean, I could go and makemoney, don't get me wrong.
(13:47):
I could have graduated and madea ton of money, but it, I was
not happy at all and I did notenjoy what I was doing.
So, um, while I was anundergrad, I realized I don't
wanna do chemical engineeringanymore, but what do I wanna do?
Right?
But then I was taking like, um,I took a quantum mechanics class
and that class blew my wholemind.
(14:08):
And I was like, this is thecoolest thing that I've ever
learned in my life and this iswhat I wanna do.
Right.
And so I went and talked to myprofessor and I was like, can I
work for you?
Like, can I do research?
Um, because this is amazing andI wanna do this.
Right.
I felt like it was too late forme.
I had been in school for so longand I was already kind of burnt
(14:29):
out.
So I was like mm-hmm.
That's just outta the questionfor me right now.
It costs so much money for thisdegree and I don't have, I'm not
just gonna waste my time andkeep working all these jobs.
So I had three jobs in collegeand it was like, I don't, you
know, I worked at Radio Shack, Idid research for this professor
and I worked in the library, thechemistry and, and physics.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love, I love the fact that we, we've talked about
laser discs, you said RadioShack and we talked about the
analog internet of those libraryor the, uh, encyclopedia
salespeople that I've
And I've been through all ofthose things together.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Case how old I am.
Yes.
I,
Speaker 2 (15:10):
For our listeners who are way younger, uh, yeah.
This is how we grew up.
This is how we, this is these,these things are like extincted
now.
There's, there's this elementof, of this kind of cultural
connection.
I think that we experience that.
It's kind of like it flies underthe radar.
We, people don't really realizeit until you're in an
environment that's differentfrom what you're used to mm-hmm.
(15:31):
Like this is, this is not, notwhat I'm used to.
And the things that I'm findingfunnier, the things that I
connect with, uh, it's not whateverybody else connects with.
And, and as a teacher, it's thesame thing, right?
Like, we go in the classroom andyou know, we we're, you and I
are rapping about laser discsand, and Radio Shack and I'm
trying to talk to my kids aboutit.
(15:52):
And they're like, yo, cross,like, what is, what is that?
Are you gonna give us a historylesson?
Like what is, what are thesethings?
Yeah.
And I find I, I found myselfhaving to stay connected to pop
culture.
Um, because I teach 12 and 13year olds all day.
Mm-hmm.
And it's great for keepingthings relevant for my students.
(16:13):
But when I talk to my friendsthat are my peers, they're like,
unless they're a teacher,they're like, I, I got no idea
what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah.
I have a friend who's also amiddle school teacher and she's
always coming to me with allthis.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
She did the glow up challenge,but she did the glow down
challenge.
So she like invented a new thing.
She's like, no, I couldn't doglow up cuz that's like too
much.
So I did the glow down challengeand it's the cutest thing ever.
It's
(16:39):
And I'm like, that's awesome.
But I have no idea what thepoint of that is.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
The, and this, there's this theme too that,
that, you know, when we talkabout, you know, teaching,
teaching kids stem, like beingable to, there's this soft part
of it, this this relationalpiece of it that you mentioned
of like this connective aspectthat in a certain way kind of
even superseded the, the contentknowledge that your teacher even
(17:06):
had at that point where you'regoing up and teaching the class
mm-hmm.
But just the fact that someonelooked like you or spoke like
you or connected with you in acertain way made a big
difference to who you are as a,as well the trajectory of where
you went.
Like, yeah, I like, I likechemistry.
It resonates with me and it,it's something I think can get
lost.
And I think just to kind of agood segue, like I, I use
(17:29):
Amplify my classroom and one ofthe reasons why is because of
the representation that is inthese videos.
And you were part of craftingthis for, uh, you know, was it,
was it the fifth grade
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Or, I mean it was K eight so I was ok,
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So you were doing the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I was a part of the K eight, uh, science team.
My title was like sciencecurriculum specialist.
But in reality I was hired to dothe engineering internships
mostly.
Mm-hmm.
So Sims K eight, I worked onseveral of them in both middle
(18:08):
school and elementary.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What was that, what was that like for you?
Like when you were designingcurriculum?
Cause as a teacher it's, youknow, I think with teachers it's
kind of like the, I'm a, I wouldconsider myself if I was gonna
use hip hop as a metaphor, I'mmore of a de more of a DJ than
an mc.
Where like I wanna remix kind ofthings that exist versus I don't
wanna write the lyrics infreestyle.
(18:31):
So like, I don't want to go andwrite the curriculum completely.
I want to take something that'ssolid and then I want to go
ahead and remix it.
You are great to both.
What was the process like foryou?
Like being on that teamdesigning?
Like how did you go aboutmaking, okay, we're gonna create
this experience for kids?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It was, it was amazing
learned so much, so much.
Like it was the best job I hadbefore I came to the
Exploratorium, right?
The process was amazing becauseit wasn't just me, right?
I can't, it wasn't just me, itwas a whole team and each unit
had its own team, right?
So we had a scientist, which Iwas the scientist we had, so we
(19:11):
had a scientist, we had aliteracy specialist because it
was really important to kind ofincrease science literacy so
that students understand like,not just, not just that science
exists, but like what are theterms that are used in science
and how can I speak and act likea scientist?
Right?
What are the things thatscientists actually do in their
(19:33):
real life?
Then we had an assessmentspecialist and then we had a
simulation specialist.
And so on the units that I wason, sometimes I was both the sim
developer and the scientist, orsometimes I was just the sim
developer and I got to workalongside another scientist,
which was always fun.
Um, and so it was really nicebecause I was working alongside
master teachers, right?
(19:55):
People who had been teaching foryears and they were able to help
me better understand, like, cuzI'll come in and I'll be like,
yeah, there's a unit on lightwaves, let's come in and teach
this unit on light waves, right?
I
there was another scientistworking on the unit, but they
were like, well, Desireeliterally builds lasers, so I
(20:17):
think she should be the sciencedeveloper.
So we kinda had two sciencedevelopers on that one, which
was fun.
But I come in and so, you know,she'll come in and she'll be
like, yeah, I think this iswhere we wanna go and this is
what we wanna teach.
I'm like, no way.
Like, that's not accurate,right?
And so I can come in, but thenI'm coming in with all this
crazy lingo, right?
I'm up here.
Mm-hmm.
(20:40):
about lasers and optics andphotonics my whole career.
So I'm also very capable ofbringing it down to where kids
need it to be.
What I don't know is like howeffective that is, right?
Like, when to do it and when notto do it.
When to bring the level up, whento bring the level down.
And so working alongside theseother teachers and assessors
(21:00):
really helped me to do that.
And so for me it was just, itwas two years of like deep
learning experience.
Um, like I learned every singleday at work, I learned something
new, which is something that Ivalue and I've wanted in my
career, my whole life.
We made active decisions in thatroom.
Like, we want to interviewscientists who are scientists of
(21:23):
color or who have differentabilities or who have different
representations in all kinds ofways, right?
And then we also have these fakeinternships, or even not even
the internships, but just in thegeneral units.
And we actively, like, we wrotescripts for those.
Yeah.
And we actively wrote in thosescripts, like, this is a black
woman, this is an Indian woman,this is a, you know, Jewish man
(21:46):
in a wheelchair.
Like, we specifically dictatedexactly who we wanted in these
videos because we knew thatrepresentation was super
important and we knew that wewanted students to be able to
connect.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right.
One of the things, uh, I, Iappreciate what I'm hearing a
lot and that is the amount ofintentionality that went into
this, but even now is you're reeven now as you're reliving it,
you're, you're still kind ofalmost iterating on how could we
improve it or how can we make itdifferent or, or reach more
(22:18):
people.
And I think that that kind ofgoes towards when we're talking
about including more people andinclusion, like, it's not a
binary thing.
Like you're, you're, you're,it's, you're always modifying,
you're always iterating, you'realways redesigning and improving
to, to, to be more inclusive, toreach more students.
Because you know, to your point,like part of it is yes, we wanna
(22:40):
do this really awesome sciencecurriculum, but the other part
of it is there's more to it thanjust your content.
And I think like now more thanever, you know, I, I, I use, uh,
we just, we just finished the,the, um, food bar unit Mm.
Metabolism.
And in there there's asimulator, they always ask me
when I show the videos, arethese, are these this real situ?
Are these real people?
Are these real situations?
(23:01):
And I, I tell them, I go, well,the story is real, but these are
all fictional actors, but what'sactually happening happens.
It's it's real.
And they get really into it.
And I think one of the otherthings I like is like with your
simulations, especially theengineering units, there's no
one right answer.
(23:21):
In, in some of my students whowant to go into Mr.
Cross, I wanna make the best barperfect 10 best taste cheapest.
And I'm like, all right, goodluck.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, go do that
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Tradeoffs.
And it could happen.
And they're like, they're trying, they get into the code, they
try to, they try to open up theinspect element.
They feel like packers.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, they do.
But these kids like, they're sosmart and they're so
resourceful.
And I'm just thinking like,maybe that's how we challenge
them more, right?
It's like sometimes we can givethem these kinds of things where
it's like, go and create aprogram cuz that's the level
you're at
Mm-hmm.
that's related to the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I've had some of my own students, uh, redesign.
I have one student who redesignsevery assessment I give him.
He, he, I, I give the project, Igive the options for the final
goal.
And he always chooses, if I givethree options, he always chooses
option four.
If I choose two options, he'schoose option three.
And so he'll go into GoogleSheets, he'll, he'll pull all
(24:22):
the data and then he'llconstruct his own kind of
spreadsheet with all theprobabilities of, of different
things.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You should tell this kid to make a GitHub right now
so that he can get a job as soonas he's done
Yeah.
He,
Speaker 2 (24:35):
He, he's amazing.
And, and he, uh, we did this oneproject, uh, where students had
to design a Netflix show to showtheir understanding of
metabolism.
And they had to do fourepisodes.
So I gave'em a template.
It's not from me, it's from Ithink EdTech picks.org or
something.
And it's, it looks like thewhole, you know, Netflix splash
page.
They took photos, they did thewhole deal.
He created Netflix.
(24:57):
So his, his everyone else didGoogle Slides.
His Google Slides wasinteractive.
So when you clicked on differentboxes, it actually took you to
the next splash page of thatshow.
I mean, it was
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It was, it was.
I I record his presentation.
Uh, it was, it was brilliant.
Um,
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But that's amazing.
And that, that speaks to likeyour strengths as a teacher and
why you're an amazing teacherbecause you see the students and
what they're trying to do andyou work with them, you meet
them where they are.
Right?
Like there are so many teacherswho would just be frustrated
with that student and it'd belike, no, these aren't, these
are not your options.
(25:36):
Like, your option was to do whatI told you to do.
Right.
And there are many teachers whowould do that.
And I think it, it's reallyamazing when we can realize as
teachers, like, no, our job isnot to just enforce rules on our
students.
Right?
I mean, that is part of the jobbecause that's what school was
when it was created.
But our job is to like, helpstudents to achieve more
(25:59):
learning, right.
In what we're trying to do.
And so the fact that you are sogood with this student and that
you encourage him to do, like,to go above and beyond when he
can, I think is like so amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, that, that brings me to my favorite group
organization and the phase ofyour career of where you are
now, the Exploratorium.
And I wanted to, uh, kind ofwrap talking about like what you
do now, uh, because in theExploratorium, I tell people,
(26:33):
they go, what is that place?
And, and maybe you can tell uswhat it is and then what you do.
But for, for me, I'll just telleverybody, it's like Disneyland
for science teachers.
And it, it, I love going there.
I not only love going therebecause of what I receive from
it professionally.
Um, many of the, the, the PDs, Idon't, I don't even call'em PDs,
but like, just communal learningexperiences, uh, that I've had
(26:57):
that have been led by you and,and, uh, and, and Lori and, and
Tammy and the rest and everybody, uh, that's there, um, have,
have been incredible.
And I have so much fun.
E emotionally, I get excitedwhen I go.
I'm like, when I'm on the plane,I'm like, here we go.
And then we go in, we're makingfudge or we're blowing darts
(27:21):
with marshmallows across theroom in the theme of Bobba Fe.
Like there's just these radthings that are going on there.
And it's not like anything I'veever experienced before.
Um, so maybe we can, we canclose with talking about like
what the exploratorium is, whatyou do there kind of, so pe for
people who've never been and,and have been a part of it.
(27:41):
So
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm gonna give you what my definition of the
exploratory is.
That's what we want.
So like, I mean, the actualdefinition is like, we are a
public learning laboratory.
Um, we are known as the Museumof Art Science and Human
Perception.
Cool.
But like what does that allmean?
Right.
And I think your description ofthe Disneyland for science
teachers, I think that's aperfect description.
(28:03):
Cuz for me, I tell people like,oh, I wanna go to the happiest
place on earth.
And for me, that is theExploratorium.
And yes, I work there and yes,it's still true for me.
Right?
So the Exploratorium is thishuge museum.
It's a, it's an interactivescience museum.
Um, and art, we have a lot ofart.
Um, and it's all about learningthrough doing.
(28:23):
We don't really, it's not aboutlearning science By going up to
an exhibit and reading thelittle paper next to it, it's
like, no, you go up to anexhibit and you interact with it
and you teach yourself science.
Right?
The goal of the exploratorium isreally to help people understand
that learning science, doingsciences isn't reserved for only
(28:46):
scientists.
Doing science is something thateveryone in the world should and
does do.
Um, and so helping peopleunderstand that everything we do
is science is kind of the pointof the exploratory.
To me,
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Even the building itself, one of the other cool
things too is like, for peoplethat don't know, it's, it's like
the size of Costco or two, it's
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's, it's immense.
And even the building itselfteaches, like, you have that
whole workshop, like dead centerin the middle of the floor where
they're designing things.
It's like inside out.
And then I remember going to theone experience where I think it
was Eric who showed us that it'sone of the few facilities that
is actually cooled by the BayWater.
(29:27):
Yeah.
And there's only like a coupleof those in the state that can
do that.
And it has like a platinumrating, something wild like
that.
Um, so even like just thebuilding itself, like everything
that if they can extract everyounce of science teaching in
that, it's, it's, it's in there.
And yeah.
You are in a very importantprogram for me.
(29:51):
And, um, can you talk a littlebit about maybe what you're
doing?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
So I am in the teacher institute.
I'm a physicist and the teacherinstitute.
And so the teacher institute isa group of teachers and
scientists.
And our job is to basicallysupport middle school and high
school science teachers andteacher leaders in the state of
California, but science teachersaround the world, um, in their
(30:19):
pursuit of science teaching,right?
So, and by support, I mean weprovide professional
development.
I mean, we provide other thingslike communities of practice and
like, um, we go into workshopsin certain places.
We go to, uh, we go to India toteach Tibetan monks and nuns,
(30:40):
um, science.
And we go to Costa Rica to teachteachers all over the state, the
country of Costa Rica, aboutscience.
And so our job is really, uh, tohelp science teachers feel more
secure in their scienceteaching, right?
Mm-hmm.
science teacher is so importantin helping our students thrive,
(31:03):
right?
And so our jobs, and we takethis very seriously, is to help
science teachers thrive.
Um, and, you know, we are madeup of PhD scientists and veteran
classroom teachers.
So we have on the one sideteachers who have been teaching
middle school or high school foryears.
Like one of my coworkers, Zeke,who I work with the most, he is,
(31:25):
he was a high school physics andenvironmental science teacher
for 21 years before coming tothe Exploratorium.
And then me, I was never aclassroom teacher, right?
I was a, I was a professor, Iwas a physics professor at a
community college and I was a,you know, a researcher.
So like my, my deep knowledge ofphysics and like current
(31:45):
knowledge of physics orknowledge of current physics
combined with Zeke's, likeextremely, um, experienced
pedagogy is like really how wework together as a team, right?
And it's not just Zeke, right?
We've got a geologist on theteam, Eric Mueller.
We've got Tammy, who's a middleschool bio teacher.
We've got, um, Julie U who is achemical engineer, PhD and also
(32:11):
a prior middle school teacher,former middle school teacher.
We've got Hillary Ossoff, whowas a, uh, PhD biologist who
used to work at the AmericanMuseum of Natural History.
Um, we've got Lori Lambertson,who was a middle school math
teacher.
Um, and so, you know, we allcome together to really bring
(32:34):
our experiences both in and outof the classroom and in and and
out of the research lab to kindof provide teachers with the
best inquiry driven stuff wecan.
And we're very like, we're soequity focused because we
believe that that's important,right?
Like, we know that the impact ofour work is, I think why most of
(32:56):
us are here.
It's why I'm here.
Mm-hmm.
would go into classrooms, Iwould go into science museums
and teach science to people.
And I probably reached out tomaybe over that whole time I
would say a couple thousandpeople, right?
Maybe a couple thousand peopletotal.
That's great.
But over 15 years of reachingout to and only reaching a
(33:21):
couple thousand people, that'slike, that's rough, right?
And then now I'm at theExploratorium and I know that if
I reach one teacher, right?
If I can teach one teacher,let's say you, how many students
do you have in your classes ayear?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
200 a year.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You have 200 students a year that you teach.
Mm-hmm.
So if you teach for 10 yearsmm-hmm.
That's 2000.
That's 2000 students.
Mm-hmm.
So I have, by teaching you todaymm-hmm.
that's gonna be useful for you.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You do.
And you are,
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You are going to be impacting these 2000 students
over the next 10 years.
And of course you're gonna be inteaching for much longer than
that.
But let's just say in 10 yearsthat payoff is so much higher,
right?
Mm-hmm.
my workshop.
Right?
And so if all of these 30teachers each teach 2000 kids
over the next 10 years, thenlike I'm actually doing
(34:15):
something.
I'm actually changing the waythat students see science
through changing the way thatyou see science.
Right?
And so I think I take my jobvery seriously as we all do.
Like, we're so invested in ourteachers.
And it's not that we don't careabout students, cuz we
absolutely do, but we understandthat without good teachers,
students aren't going to be ableto thrive, um, as often as they
(34:39):
would otherwise.
Like I was able to do itsomehow, right?
But I'm one, right?
There are so many other kids whocould have gone into science who
didn't because they, they feltlike they never connected to it.
So our job is to try to helpteachers connect to it.
And an important part of that isallowing you all to experience
science as a learner.
We want you to play and havejoyful experiences.
(35:01):
We want you to enjoy science andto try to think about it from
the perspective of yourstudents, right.
Walk in their shoes so that whenyou're then go back to your
classroom, you are able to likethink about like, oh yeah, you
know, my students totally askedthe same question that I asked
or that another teacher asked inthe workshop because they had
(35:22):
the foresight to think about.
That's what my students wouldask.
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, I think it, it, it, it does a, it's really
effective to create empathy forthe learner because I find
myself in that position.
I, I don't know if some kind oflike memory displacement field
happens to me when I sit inthose workshops, but like
Hillary will ask a question thatI know the answer to and I'm
like, I don't want to answer thequestion.
I don't, I'm, I might be wrong.
(35:46):
I'm like, and I teach thesubject mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And those, when I leave, I mighthave to go back and reference
exactly what the lesson was, butI remember how I felt when I
didn't know.
And very rarely as teachers dowe get put in positions like
that.
And so it helps me be in theposition of my students
(36:08):
emotionally of what it's like,even even the intentionality of
how you ask questions and notshowing an affect on your face
when somebody says the rightanswer or the wrong answer.
Well,
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I'm still learning that I'm not great at it.
Julie is the math.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Julie's got nailed.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I'm still trying to learn from her.
She's amazing.
And I, I really like to getthere one day, but I'm still not
there.
I'll be like, oh, oh, wellthat's, I have terrible poker
face, so I'll be like, oh yeah,but you think that maybe that's
a piece of it that's reallyimportant, right?
Is like this not giving away theanswer mm-hmm.
(36:44):
Like allowing people to ask thequestions and explore, like, and
become invested in the problembefore giving away the answer.
Like that's something that Ilearned here at the
Exploratorium.
And I, like I said, I learnevery day, right?
And it's something that I thinkis so important for us as
teachers to kind of learn andtry to implement.
(37:05):
Because oftentimes you'll comeand you'll have students who are
like, I'm too stupid.
I don't know the answer.
Mm-hmm.
And then somebody else will saythe answer.
And then it's like, well, thestudent is like, yeah, I was
right.
I'm too stupid.
But it's like, no, but if youhave that student, actually
think about it, then thestudent, once they do hear the
right answer, they might belike, oh yeah, that one makes
sense.
You know, instead of like, I'mstupid.
(37:26):
It's like, no, this is, Iexplored this and I figured it
out on my own.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Things keep coming back to how this experience and
the process of them learningscience even kind of outweighs
the content of it.
Cuz the content is almost easierto, to, it's easier to share,
it's easier to get, you can lookit up really quickly mm-hmm.
stories, the exposure, theexperience, how they're going
(37:52):
through that process.
I know that's something thatI've, I learned a lot in just
watching the, not teachingscience, but actually science of
teaching, sitting in theworkshops and like watching how
we're treated as students, howwe, how you interact with us,
and then being able to take thatback to the classroom.
And just to add on to the valuethat it's created.
I think one thing that is alsodone is given us community.
(38:13):
And in addition to being able toimpact students, it's also been
able to build resilience andteachers because we as teachers
can feel very isolated.
Um, and especially now whenthings are incredibly difficult
and everyone, every teacher'sexperiencing, you know, covid
and shutdowns and, and, and lowstaffing across the country in
different ways when you don'tfeel like you have community or
(38:36):
people that you can connect withmm-hmm.
harder.
And you've done a great job atbeing able to build community
with us in our community ofpractice.
The Exploratorium is being ableto do that.
And it's something that I'm, um,super grateful for probably more
than anything else is thatthrough these last two years,
being able to connect reallymade me feel like, okay, we're
(38:57):
gonna, we're gonna be able to dothis.
And it's not just about cross ormy other teacher in, in eighth
grade or my sixth grade teacherwho's doing this.
That message I think is, isreally, really important.
I want to ask this, this, uh,was there a teacher or
experience that impacted you orinspired you throughout your
(39:17):
educational career?
You know, kindergarten, all theway to, to college?
Was there a, a, a moment or an aperson or anything like that
that really stuck with you thatyou felt Maybe influenced maybe
who you became, where you metyou, where you were at?
Um, I know you mentioned your,your, your chemistry teacher at
(39:38):
that point, but is there any,anyone else or, or was it that
person that was really, um, theperson who sticks out for
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You?
There actually have been a few.
Of course, the first is mygreat-grandmother, Claudia pairs
.
But I think in the fourth andfifth grade I had the same
teacher.
She, she stayed with us goingfrom fourth to fifth grade and
fourth grade was a new schoolfor me.
New town.
I was the only like black childin the school.
Me and my sister.
(40:04):
Um, and my teacher recognizedthat I was, I had no real help
at home, I guess.
And she really kind of, she sawthat I was really smart.
She would give me extraassignments when I, she could
tell I was bored.
It meant that someone outside ofmy house cared about me in a way
(40:27):
that like, I didn't feel caredabout at home.
Mm-hmm.
Mrs.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Like,
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, Mrs.
Fran comment.
And I've tried looking her uplike, you know, as an adult and
I can't find her, but I workwith so many teachers and I know
how hard teaching is and howdegrading it can be or like
demoralizing I guess to like notbe appreciated.
And so I know what it feels liketo me when a student has reached
(40:56):
out and shown me like, Hey, I'mnow in dental school, or I'm now
getting a PhD in science and I'mjust like,
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I got a message this morning on Instagram from a
student and none of my studentsuse their real names and their
Instagram handles handle mm-hmm.
So it's like, I got a messagefrom Moonshine
a seventh grade teacher.
And through deduction, deductivereasoning, I figured out who it
was.
Mm-hmm.
responding and that, you know,you get one of those every once
(41:26):
in a while.
Yeah.
And I feel like it just fillsyour tang.
It's just so important that we,it's funny because like kind of
to your point, we don't realizewho or how we're making impacts
on people.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
are.
And uh, you know, and I tell allthe teachers, I said, you're,
you have one of the fewprofessions where you fall
asleep worrying about otherpeople's kids.
And it's the, the words that wespeak, the things that we do,
people are always watching.
I know.
No pressure.
Right?
Yeah.
Hopefully, uh, someone will,will listening find miss, uh,
(41:59):
uh, Ms.
Comment.
Ms comment,
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Elementary school back in the eighties.
But your, your talk about likethis impact, it reminds me of
the thing I wanted to say, but Ididn't.
But I'm gonna tell you rightnow.
Um, you know, so I mentioned my,how science was not a priority
when I went to school in myhometown.
That's Lancaster, California.
(42:24):
Um, but recently I got a phonecall from a family friend and
she was so excited and shecalled me to tell me that her
daughter was super excited whenshe picked her up from school
because I was in her classroom.
She said, auntie Desiree was inmy class today and she does, she
works on lasers and she doesspectroscopy and I wanna learn
(42:47):
about spectroscopy now.
So can we call Auntie Desiree?
And I was like, wait, what?
My friend was kind of confused.
She's like, Desiree didn't tellme she was in town.
Like, she had no idea why herdaughter was saying I was in her
classroom cause I was notphysically there.
Right.
Right.
And then I had to put the piecestogether and I was like, oh my
God, your daughter's in eighthgrade already.
It made me feel really old cuz Iknow this girl from a little
(43:09):
baby.
But I was like, oh my God,that's the eighth grade unit on
light waves for Amplify that Iwrote and I'm featured as the
scientist, right.
Because we have real scientistsin the units.
Right.
Right.
And they featured me in that onein my laser lab.
And so this little girl whoknows me really well, who lives
in my hometown is seeing likerepresentation in science.
(43:30):
She doesn't necessarily know I'ma scientist.
Right.
She knows that I, I don't knowwhat she knows about me.
Like she just knows I'm AuntieDesiree and like, you know, I
like gumbo at Christmas.
Like that's what she knows aboutme,
And so like she comes back andshe's so excited cuz now she
knows so much more about me andshe knows that like, if I can do
it and I came from where she'sat, she can do it too.
(43:51):
And she was super excited and Iwas like, it brought me to
tears.
I was just like crying in thecar.
I was driving
work that I did is teaching youand all of your friends in this
tiny little town that you livein.
And like that to me is like soimportant because now this
little girl knows that like, sheknows me as just a normal human
(44:12):
right.
Who likes Star Trek and StarWars and the Owl House.
Right.
And now she's over here like, ohmy gosh, this normal human like
wrote the science curriculumthat I'm learning from.
Which I think is just like, it'sso fantastic and it really
brought home for me kind of theimportance of my work and why
I'm doing, doing what I'm doing.
And that's pretty awesome.
(44:33):
And I get messages fromInstagram, you know, from
teachers who were like, Hey, didyou work on this?
Cuz you were featured in thevideo, but did you write this
light waves unit?
And I'm like, yeah.
And they'll tell me like, I havestudents, this is their favorite
unit.
I've gotten notes from students,you know, saying like, I, this
was my favorite unit in all ofmiddle school.
And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Uh, that story just gives me, that story gives me
chills because I just canimagine how surreal that must
feel and it's not like you'redirectly making that impact
mm-hmm.
And I'm glad that you share thatstory.
Uh, so, so that, uh, everyonecan hear it because it's a, it's
a powerful story and I lived it.
I feel like I was living itthrough you just now as you were
discussing it.
Um, yeah.
(45:16):
And I, I feel that, that way inthe classroom kind of to a small
degree because I get to have,when my students create posters
of scientists mm-hmm.
list of scientists and they'relike, I was like, I can call her
like Mr.
Cross, you know her.
I was like, yeah, she's a friendof mine.
I was talking to her the otherday and they're like, whoa.
(45:38):
She works with lasers.
I you, Desiree Yeah.
Uh, I've held you for so longand
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yes.
I'm sorry I talk, I told you Italked so much.
I'm a teacher.
No,
Speaker 2 (45:50):
No, no, no, no.
It was great.
I wanna honor your time.
Um, can you tell everybody wherethey can find out more about you
again?
Speaker 1 (45:56):
So first off my, you can find me at, um, you can find
me on Twitter at Darth Science,d a r t h s c i n c e.
And you can also find me atInstagram at Dr.
Laser Chick, Dr.
Laser chick.
Um, even though I don't post onInstagram that much.
(46:16):
Um, I also have a website, whichis laser chick.net.
Um, I'm still working on it.
It's not the best website yet,but, you know, it'll, it'll be
better in the future.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Would you, would you be willing to come back later on
in the year and uh, do a parttwo?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
So I can actually finish tellingyou the story of how I got into
physics.
Cause I totally didn't.
Cause I'm all over the place.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
So, so everybody has to, so the cliffhanger, next
time she comes back, she'llcontinue telling us the story.
Yeah.
Desiree, thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening tomy conversation with Dr.
Desiree Whitmore, which we firstreleased in March of last year.
I hope you enjoyed eitherhearing it again or for the very
first time.
And if you haven't already,please subscribe to this show on
(47:00):
your favorite podcast app.
By doing that, you'll help otherlisteners to find us and please
join our Facebook discussiongroup, science Connections, the
Community stay tuned there andin the Science Connections
Podcast feed for more on what'sto come in season three.
And thank you again forlistening.
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