June 26, 2024 • 47 mins
This episode features an in-depth conversation with Genie Baca, a 33-year education veteran who has spent the last 18 years as a principal in Texas. Baca discusses her career progression from a balanced literacy classroom teacher to various educational roles along her journey to the Science of Reading—and how it all led her to a unique school predominantly serving refugee students. This school—where 39 languages are spoken by the diverse student body—faces different challenges (and opportunities) than most schools. Baca shares some of the transformative strategies implemented under her leadership, particularly focusing on the Science of Reading and high-quality instructional materials. These strategies have significantly improved literacy and engagement, with a systematic approach adjusted for Tier 1 instruction to benefit all students, including monolingual and multilingual learners. Baca’s story showcases the positive influence strong leadership, a dedicated staff, and research-based educational methodologies can have when creating a successful learning environment for a diverse student population.
Quotes:
"I couldn't just lead my campus into the Science of Reading if I didn't open myself up to [the possibility that] maybe I was wrong. It wasn't easy, but it really took me looking at student work to prove that what I had been doing all these years wasn't working." —Genie Baca
"It's serving every child we have in the seat, whether they're monolingual or they speak two or three languages. What works is a systematic approach to learning how to read." —Genie Baca
"Now that we know better, and we know more about the research and how speaking and reading go together, we're just getting smarter. We're learning more about how reading works, how the brain works, how kids acquire knowledge, and we just have to be smarter with how we do things." —Genie Baca
Episode timestamps*
02:00: Introduction: Who is Genie Baca?
03:00: Genie Baca’s journey in education and unique school
10:00: School changes over 14 years
13:00: Change management: Teacher reactions & professional development
15:00: The shift to Science of Reading
27:00: Science of Reading for multilingual learners
33:00: The importance of oral language and leveraging it in the classroom
35:00: Involving parents and caregivers in the learning process
40:00: Reflecting on lessons learned and future directions
*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Genie Baca (00:00):
It's serving every child we have in the seat,
whether they're monolingual orthey speak two or three
languages. What works is, it isa systematic approach to
learning how to read.
Susan Lambert (00:15):
This is Susan Lambert and welcome to Science
of Reading (00:17):
The Podcast from Amplify, where the Science of
Reading lives. Amarillo, Texas,is an international
resettlement community forrefugees. That's why, At
Eastridge Elementary, studentsspeak some 39 different
languages. On today's episode,we're hearing from the
principal at Eastridge, GenieBaca. Principal Baca is a
(00:41):
former ESL teacher herself and,On this episode, she talks
about the way her school hasused the Science of Reading to
successfully develop theliteracy skills of students.
Listeners, I think you'll enjoyhearing about Principal Baca's
own Science of Readingturnaround, the story of
Eastridge Elementary, and someof her advice for using the
(01:03):
Science of Reading to servemultilingual and English
learners. Here's myconversation with Principal
Baca. Well, welcome Genie Baca,thank you so much for joining
us on today's episode. We'reexcited to have you here.
Genie Baca (01:19):
I'm excited to be here.
Susan Lambert (01:21):
We can't wait to hear your story, and I know
that you have so much to sharewith our listeners and
particularly important becauseyou are on the ground doing the
work right now. So before wejump into all of those details,
I would just love if you couldshare a little bit about your
background and your currentrole to give our listeners just
some context.
Genie Baca (01:42):
Okay. I'm on my 33rd year in education here in
Texas.
Susan Lambert (01:47):
Congratulations, wow!
Genie Baca (01:50):
The end is near ! I started obviously as a
classroom teacher, moved intocurriculum specialist, then
assistant principal. And thelast 18 years I've been a
principal leading schools. Oneof the funniest things I look
back on is for many, manyyears, I was a balanced
literacy trainer for mydistrict and a reading recovery
(02:14):
teacher for 10 years. And so ,that was just part of my
journey to where we are now.
Susan Lambert (02:21):
Yeah. We'll talk a little bit more about that. I
love that you shared thatbecause there's a lot of our
listeners sitting in the samesituation, whether they're
classroom teachers now orthey're in different kinds of
roles. But it's a real thing tothink about how you shift your
thinking and your practice tomore Science-of-Reading-based
approaches. So thanks for beingtransparent about that.
Genie Baca (02:43):
You're welcome.
Susan Lambert (02:44):
So you are a principal in a school right
now. Can you tell us a littlebit of the context of the
school? Because this is thereally interesting part, and I
know our listeners are justgoing to be excited to hear
about that.
Genie Baca (02:56):
I have my little school here, and it's not very
little. We're quite large. Idon't think there's another
school anywhere, I know inTexas, like us . We have mainly
just refugees. And so what wedo have here in Amarillo are
meatpacking for work. And sothat's one of the reasons
(03:17):
refugees get settled here. Andso I do have mainly
second-language learners on mycampus. We currently have 39
languages spoken on my campus.
Susan Lambert (03:27):
Wow.
Genie Baca (03:28):
So for 14 years I've been here and working on
just teaching kids to beproductive adults with what we
had over the years. And so—
Susan Lambert (03:38):
What grade levels do you serve there?
Genie Baca (03:41):
We start at three , pre-K three, pre-K four, and
then go all the way up to fifthgrade.
Susan Lambert (03:46):
Okay. And then how many students altogether
this year?
Genie Baca (03:50):
Right now we're , one of the things that's been
common in everywhere, butespecially in Texas, is
dropping of enrollment. Sonormally have , would always
stay in 800s, but we are alsoaffected by that. And we're
sitting at 560 right now.
Susan Lambert (04:04):
Okay. But still, how many languages did you say
were spoken?
Genie Baca (04:07):
39.
Susan Lambert (04:09):
Wow. And that brings all kind of
complications in and of itself.
And, and we can sort of talkabout that a little bit.
Anything else you wanna tell usthat's important about the
context of the school?
Genie Baca (04:21):
Yes. So, a lot of times you'll have campuses that
are bilingual and most of theirkids are Hispanic, but their
kids have come from Mexico andthey've been in school. Their
instruction has been inSpanish, but our kids come from
refugee camps, so they'reunschooled refugees. And so
whether they come in at fifthor third or kindergarten,
(04:42):
they're unschooled. And so theydon't come in with a written
language. They can't write orread in their first language.
And so makes things morechallenging. We can't really
assimilate from first languageto second language because that
first language instruction wasnot there.
Susan Lambert (04:59):
And so many of your students then haven't even
been in a schoolingenvironment. So it's sort of
acclimating them to thatprocess as well.
Genie Baca (05:07):
Yeah. People don't understand when you are in a
refugee camp, you are isolatedfrom your country, and they
grow up there. Like they mightstay 12, 15 years in refugee
camp before they get out andget , you know, be able to get
accepted into a country. And soit's not a easy place to grow
up in. They have some storiesfrom growing up in a refugee
(05:29):
camp, but that's our thing.
When we communicate with ourparents, we do everything
orally. We could translate allour communication, but they
can't read it. Well, some can,but for the majority of them,
can't. And so we have learnedover the years, we just do oral
translation for all ourcommunication.
Susan Lambert (05:47):
How does that happen? Do you send out audio,
video? What does that looklike?
Genie Baca (05:51):
So we have systems where you can record. So like
our Somalian translator will dothe message in Somalian, and,
and it's sent to just herparents, our Burmese, our
Karen, our Karenni , you know,Vietnamese, Laotian, whatever
language, our translatorrecords it and then the parents
get it in their language.
Susan Lambert (06:13):
That's amazing.
How many translators do youhave to be able to accomplish
that?
Genie Baca (06:18):
I have about 19, but the thing is, they speak
multiple languages because inBurma, Thailand, they speak
many dialects. And so one ofmine can speak Burmese, Karen,
Karenni, Thai, which helps.
Susan Lambert (06:33):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (06:34):
So they're instructional assistants, is
really their title. But theydo, and what languages we don't
have a person for then we havea system called, it's like a
language line where you get onand they find the person you
need to help.
Susan Lambert (06:51):
So those , what did you call them?
Genie Baca (06:53):
Instructional assistants. So they spend their
time in the classrooms, and sowe kind of organize it where
our kids that are strugglingin, say, first grade and this
classroom, well, maybe they'reseveral Somalian kids. So we do
their schedule, where thatSomalian translator is in that
Tier 1 instruction helping outwith those students. And so we
(07:16):
kind of attach them to our kidswho need more assistance in the
classrooms.
Susan Lambert (07:21):
Got it. And what about languages? Do you have
one language that's morecommon? Or not?
Genie Baca (07:29):
Yes. Karen is our most common, our biggest—
Susan Lambert (07:32):
Wow.
Genie Baca (07:32):
—language, yes.
Susan Lambert (07:34):
And I am I'm sure many folks listening to
this podcast don't know whatcountry kids that speak Karen
come from.
Genie Baca (07:44):
Burma.
Susan Lambert (07:44):
Burma.
Genie Baca (07:44):
But most of them have been sitting in a refugee
camp in Thailand, and so theyescape Burma to Thailand. And
so that's where they pick up alot of Thai, too. And so when
we get them , they usuallyspeak both by the time we get
'em .
Susan Lambert (08:01):
So because you're in Texas, my guess
would've been Spanish, but thatwould've been wrong!
Genie Baca (08:07):
My largest population is Asian.
Susan Lambert (08:09):
Quick question.
Did you ever think that youwere gonna be leading a school
that had that many differentlanguages? Was multilingual
education something you wereinterested in?
Genie Baca (08:18):
I was an ESL teacher, and so, yes, I loved
being an ESL teacher, but I didnot want this campus! When it
came open 14 years ago, I hadseveral colleagues call and
say, "call and say you wantthat!" And I was like, "Oh, no,
no, no way!" Because it was atschool like, "Oh, that's so
hard." Like, I feel for theperson who has that school. And
(08:40):
so I got the call when I was ata conference, from my
superintendent telling me I wasmoving to be the principal at
Eastridge. And I cried, criedand cried. And you know, you
say, you know, "Thank you forthe opportunity," you know, but
as soon as you hang up thephone, it was like, "Noooo!"
But when I came and I met mystaff that summer, I inherited
(09:03):
a staff that were so amazingand so hardworking and ready
for a change. Because we werein school improvement. When I
got Eastridge, we were introuble. And so the first thing
I did was just sit witheverybody. And that was the
first thing, was like, I havethe best staff, and now? You
can ask my superintendent, ifhe moves me, I retire. So he's
(09:25):
not allowed to move me. So it'sa whole different—
Susan Lambert (09:31):
We have that on a podcast recording, too, for
the world to hear! That'sfunny. So, what was the school
like when you first got there,paint us a little picture of
that.
Genie Baca (09:45):
So, first thing they tell you when you get a
school, just by yourself, gowalk in classrooms and, you
know, just look at what's inclassrooms and what they have
and what they need. And I was aTitle I campus, and so, you
know, with Title I comes money,and I think the first thing I
was taken back from was theydidn't have the needed
materials. I didn't see anyeasels in classroom, any rugs
(10:05):
in classrooms. Just basicthings that you would want in
elementary classrooms weremissing. And so their morale
was really low because , theywere, they'd been in school
improvement. They were introuble for years. And so they
were beat down. And when I metwith my teachers, they were
doing everything they knew todo. It wasn't that they were
(10:29):
not working hard, they justexhausted all, they didn't have
any other strategies. And sofirst thing we did is I sat
with them, got to know them,and said, "What do you need in
your room?" We started withbasics of , and we ordered
every classroom a rug,everybody an easel ,
smartboards, back in the daywhen we had smartboards, we
ordered everybody smartboards,you know, all just the needed
(10:52):
material. So first of all, theycouldn't say, "I didn't have
the needed materials to createschool improvement." We got rid
of that excuse. And then werolled up our sleeves and
started working on systems forschool improvement. And if you
talk to anybody in thisdistrict, I'm a systems girl. I
have a system for everything. Ihave a system for planning, a
(11:14):
system for Tier 1, a system forRTI, everything we have a
system for. We monitor oursystems and we hold everybody
accountable for the work we do.
And we quickly got outta schoolimprovement and have stayed
outta school improvement for 14years.
Susan Lambert (11:30):
That's awesome.
Genie Baca (11:31):
But barely, you know, especially in reading.
Susan Lambert (11:34):
Yeah. Yeah .
Genie Baca (11:35):
Our math has always done well. Math is universal,
but reading, we would just, youknow, stay like a D score, not
in trouble, but we'd be a D andwe'd make very minimal growth
every year. Every year. Thenobviously four years ago is
when every teacher in my campushad to go through the training
(11:57):
of Science of Teaching Reading,which—
Susan Lambert (11:59):
Yeah. Yep .
Genie Baca (12:00):
Changed things.
Yes.
Susan Lambert (12:02):
Yeah. We'll get to that in just a minute. I'm
really curious to understandhow the staff reacted when you
came in, because it seems to methat you paid attention to the
things that they need. So howdid you get them, you know,
outside of, "you need stuff inyour classroom to make it feel
like a classroom and work likea classroom"? Were there other
(12:24):
ways that you helped them geton board with making changes?
How did they react to all ofthat?
Genie Baca (12:29):
They—surprisingly, beautifully. Like, I really,
that's why I tell people, I,the staff I got was amazing.
But the thing I came with thatmy staff didn't have when I
came was training inprofessional learning
communities. And so that was mything. And so my first year I
taught professional learningcommunities and talked about
(12:50):
systems and stuff. And then wewent and took every single
teacher through that three-daytraining, you know, San Diego,
San Antonio, you know, all overthe country, and made sure that
every one of my staff memberswent through. And what
professional learningcommunities does, it teaches
you, again, systems on how tolook at data , how to lesson
(13:13):
plan, how to make formativeassessments , how do you
respond to data, the wholeeverything. And we slowly, we
just started moving. Andeverybody, you know... And so,
not everybody, I shouldn't sayeverybody, everybody has to get
on the bus, but if you're notwilling to get on the bus and
roll up your sleeves and dowhat everybody else is doing,
(13:35):
you know, then you get off thebus and leave. And that first
year after my first year,that's exactly what happened.
The people who did not wannawork smart and hard left. And
then we, there we went, thepeople who weren't willing to
get on the bus got off and wewent to moving.
Susan Lambert (13:55):
So I'm gonna say this tongue in cheek , but I'm
sure you have a process forprofessional learning
communities now in your school,right?
Genie Baca (14:02):
Yes.
Susan Lambert (14:03):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (14:04):
We call it collaboration, yes, but PLC is
everything. It's everything wedo all day long is a PLC. But
then of course, part of that,where we do the deep work, is
in weekly collaboration.
Susan Lambert (14:14):
Yeah. That's amazing. So you really did
spend a lot of time focused onthe people in your building,
getting them the resources andthe professional development
they need to really build thatculture, that culture of
professional learning, beforeyou could build that culture of
student learning, then.
Genie Baca (14:31):
It's all about teacher capacity.
Susan Lambert (14:34):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (14:35):
Our teachers wanted to do more. They just didn't
have the capacity to do it.
They were doing everything theycould and learning about
teacher efficacy along the way.
And what does that look like?
And how do we do that?
Susan Lambert (14:47):
That's great .
Genie Baca (14:48):
And I don't know how to do that, but we're gonna
show you and we're gonna helpyou.
Susan Lambert (14:52):
All right . So you mentioned that four years
ago, you all started to changethe way that you taught
reading. What happened? Whatwas that process?
Genie Baca (15:01):
Well, it was the first year, and we were one of
the ones that volunteered. AndI will tell you what happened.
I think you heard me saying ourteachers were the hands-down
best lesson planners. I could ,I still have copies of them in
our system. So we lessonplanned , we unpacked
standards, we made ourassessments , we did it all ,
(15:23):
but it took hours. So ourteachers were working such late
hours, like 5:30, 6. We werestaying so late preparing, and
everybody was good at what theydid, and it was kind of keeping
us out of school improvement,but teachers were just getting
worn out. And so when we hadthe process of the end of the
(15:43):
year, when you do your needsassessment and your campus
improvement plan , one of thesections you have to do is
processes and procedures. Theteachers did say, "We need a
different procedure. Like, wegotta figure out something
different." And so I rememberwhen I did my end-of-year
evaluation with my boss, myassistant superintendent, I
(16:03):
brought that up and said, youknow, "My teachers, they're
worn out."
Susan Lambert (16:07):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (16:07):
And they're looking for something different. And so
that just happened, a monthlater, our superintendent got
notified. So we went through,four years ago, our whole
entire staff went through, wewere one of the first campuses
in our district that wentthrough the 14 modules of the
Science of Teaching Reading andgot trained on it. And so we
(16:28):
had all this training.
Susan Lambert (16:29):
Okay. And for those listeners that aren't
aware of this in Texas, can youexplain what that looked like
in the state of Texas, in termsof that training?
Genie Baca (16:37):
Yes . So it's quite intense. There's quite a,
there's 14 modules and it'slike in Canvas. Ours was in
Canvas. So we had a presenterthat was attached to us that
would come to our campus and wewould do Module One. And so
we'd have homework assignmentsin Module One where we'd have
to read things and go ahead anddo certain parts of the module.
(16:59):
And then we would come togetherand solidify our learning with
our module. There wereartifacts we had to do to turn
in and get graded. We had topass the whole process of the
Science of Teaching Reading.
Like, not only did we have todo the 14 modules, we had
artifacts and we had to passour artifacts. We had to pass
all the assessments in there .
(17:20):
So after Module One, you wouldhave like a little quiz,
several quizzes in there, andthen like a summative
assessment in Module One. Andthey were broken up. Like, you
know, one module might be abouthow important language is to
reading and how the brain workswith speech and reading and ,
you know, learning aboutScarborough's Rope or, you
know, the Simple View ofReading. We pretty much learned
(17:43):
what we should have learned incollege. Or maybe we learned
real quickly in college, but wedidn't understand it 'cause we
didn't come back to school andapply it.
Susan Lambert (17:51):
Mm-hm.
Genie Baca (17:51):
And so we had had the training, we were still
doing our old ways of guidedreading and balanced literacy
as we were going through thistraining. And then that's when
our teachers, we have newlearning under our belt. What
we're doing in class really isnot matching what we just
learned that the state asked usto do. So we were like, well ,
(18:11):
"The state asked us, this isrequired for all
administrators, all teachers,but really what we're doing in
Tier 1 instruction or in RTIisn't matching what we
learned." And so our teachersare starting to question,
'cause one of the things wehave really built , if you see
my little sign there, "Learningis required."
Susan Lambert (18:30):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (18:30):
That is our mantra, for our kids, our parents, for
everybody. And so they'relearning and now they're
questioning. And so that's whenwe, I tell my boss, "It's time
for something different. Myteachers are needing something
different." And then we get acall that summer after Texas
teaching the Reading Academies.
And our commissioner ofeducation wants us to try an
(18:53):
HQIM.
Susan Lambert (18:53):
HQIM is high-quality instructional
materials.
Genie Baca (18:56):
We were like, "Sure, let's, what else do we
have to lose? Let's, let's dothis." And so that summer, in
summer school, we just playedwith it, 'cause it was nothing
like we've ever done before. Sothey gave us permission to play
with it in summer school, whichwas, thank go,d that was
amazing that we had time to...
"What does this mean?" And"What?" And "Gosh." And then
(19:21):
August came and we started it.
And what was nice was, firstthing, even though I say our
teachers made the mostincredible lesson plans, the
first thing they realized afterprobably a few weeks into the
HQIM, which covered all ofScience of Teaching Reading,
was we would've never been ableto produce this high-quality
(19:43):
lesson plans. Like ,that wasthe first thing, even though
they were working hard, theselessons that we were given that
were, you know, written bypeople with doctorates and
curriculum writing , we werejust missing the boat. And so,
it was a rough start. I willtell you, it wasn't an easy
start, but , about October, wewere flowin'.
Susan Lambert (20:04):
Hmm . Well, we'll come back to that. So,
I'm gonna go all the way backto when you were going through
the Texas Reading Academies.
You were learning alongsideyour teachers at the same time.
Is that right? You were, wereyou all doing these modules
together?
Genie Baca (20:19):
Yes, but you gotta realize, I was a balanced
literacy trainer and a readingrecovery teacher going through
this.
Susan Lambert (20:24):
Yes!
Genie Baca (20:25):
I would be like, "Oh." It was so hard for me. My
teachers, they took it like,"Oh yeah—
Susan Lambert (20:31):
Tell me more about that. How hard was that
for you?
Genie Baca (20:37):
So hard. So hard because, not that I was
brainwashed or anything likethat, but for 33 years, not 33,
we've been 29 years, I guess.
29 years. My whole beliefsystem, everything I spoke on,
believed, argued, fought for.
(20:57):
Everything I did was all aboutbalanced literacy and guided
reading. The three-cueingsources and , you know , that,
and so it was a hard change forme. It was, I had to see it
happen and see what our, thedifference before I changed my
(21:21):
belief system. I went throughthe course and there were some
parts of Science of TeachingReading. "Yeah, I get this,
this makes sense." Thecomprehension part, you know,
the knowledge building. Yeah,we don't, "This would be good
for our second-languagelearners," but my whole mind
frame was leveled readers,three-cueing sources, stay two
(21:44):
hours in your reading block,reading below grade level. And
now I look back at it and I'mlike, "Oh my God." We were
doing Tier Two in Tier 1 for 29years and never thought once
that we were hurting kids. Youknow?
Susan Lambert (22:02):
Do you remember a particular moment? You said
you had to see it, was there aparticular moment you can
remember when it was like, "Oh,this really clicks!"
Genie Baca (22:11):
I tell people all the time. So my teachers, it's
a thing, every time, every fewweeks, put new learning out in
the hall. So we have visitorshere all the time. And so when
we do a walk, we can justquickly tell what's going on in
each classroom. But the writingthat our kids produced in
September, October, November,the quality, for the first time
(22:35):
in our lives, kids werespelling words correctly, not
phonetically. That blew mymind. It just blew my mind. And
I was like, "Oh my God, thisstuff is really working." And
it didn't take long. It reallywas the first semester of us
doing the systemized, theskills, the phonics. It was
(22:57):
fast. Not everybody's that way.
We got some veteran teachers,you know, that still have a
hard time with it. But meleading a new way, I couldn't
just lead my campus into theScience of Teaching Reading if
I didn't open myself up to,maybe I was wrong. And so I had
to, I had to have that little ," Okay, well." You know, it
(23:23):
wasn't easy, but it really tookme looking at student work to
prove that what I had beendoing all these years wasn't
working.
Susan Lambert (23:35):
You know, it's so curious to me that you use
writing as an example, becauseone of the myths about the
Science of Reading is thatwe're, you know, we're only
talking about what it takes todevelop skilled readers, but
the fact that reading andwriting are so reciprocally
related. Right? Yeah. It'sreally interesting that you saw
that come out in their writing.
(23:56):
That's really cool.
Genie Baca (23:58):
So, we do an hour of phonics, explicit phonics
training every day . Butbeforehand, is this
embarrassing to say? I amreally embarrassed to say what
I'm fixing to say. We did maybefive or ten minutes of word
work on the horseshoe tablewhen we had the kids with us at
the guided reading table. Butthat was the extent of our
(24:20):
phonics work. Five or tenminutes of word work, and off
we went. And now that we aredevoting an hour of the day,
it's just—.
Susan Lambert (24:28):
And it—
Genie Baca (24:30):
Go ahead.
Susan Lambert (24:30):
It must be beyond just phonics, though. So
phonics like in a, so you'retalking about your hour that
you're spending on thoseskills, it's phonemic awareness
and it's phonics and it'swriting and it's reading
connected text, right? So it'snot just strict phonics
instruction. Is that right?
Genie Baca (24:47):
Right. Because it also builds, as they're
learning phonics, well, so thecool thing is they're learning
skills. And it's allsystematic. It's all done in a
correct order. But what is socool about how the designers of
this, is they, first graders,they're learning skills in
their phonics curriculum. Butwhen they get their reader that
(25:10):
they're gonna read, texts,ongoing text, they've been
taught every skill that theyneed to be able to read that
text. And it's just, the layoutis just amazing that , and it's
not, you know, when peoplethink of decodables , you think
it's that one sentence on apage? No, it is stories. And
(25:34):
there are decodables. They'reworking on fluency on those
skills and those readers. Butwhen I saw those readers for
the first time, I said, "Theseare decodables? Oh my God. This
is great text that kids arereading on." And so just to get
to see kids learn everythingthey need to know. And not all
kids, we catch 80, 85% in Tier1 instruction. And then, of
(25:58):
course, in Tier Two, we have tobe systematic in Tier Two and
catch those kids who are notgetting it all in Tier 1. But
just the language developmentthat is in every aspect of the
curriculum is amazing.
Susan Lambert (26:14):
So I wanna go back to another myth, which is,
there's a myth that some ofthese evidence-based practices
or Science-of-Reading-basedpractices are only for
monolingual learners. Butyou're using the Science of
Reading approach in a schoolthat's very much about many,
many languages. So what was itthat you thought, "Wow, this is
(26:36):
really working, this is workingfor my multilingual learners as
well, and it's serving them."
Genie Baca (26:42):
Well, I think it's serving every child we have in
the seat, whether they'remonolingual or they speak two
or three languages, what worksis it is a systematic approach
to learning how to read. It isdone in a progression of what
every kid needs. And so, wherethe difference before, I will
(27:06):
tell you, I think it's thebiggest thing I see and why
it's working, is for the, notthe first time, but it's just,
we're more focused on it thanwe have ever been, is kids
articulating their learning inclass. And so, like, if you
came and you sat in myclassroom, you would see that
every teacher holds every kidin the classroom, when they're
(27:29):
in skills, knowledge, itdoesn't matter, science, math
class, whatever class you arein, every teacher holds kids to
answering in completesentences. And then let's just
talk, 'cause we're talkin' ELAhere. When we're in skills and
we're working on work,everything is, we teach, it's
like the habits of discussion,building on to what you learned
(27:50):
yesterday or building on from askill you learned earlier in
the lesson. And let's talkabout it. Let's, "Explain it to
me. What do you understand?
What do you know? Now let'sapply it." And that's what I
see the big difference isbecause before we did a
systematic phonics instruction,I would see, and I was even
(28:12):
okay with it, and I dunno why Iwas okay with it , but we had
so much of an expectation andwe thought that it was okay if
your kids could answer youorally, take that response as,
they got it, where everybodyelse, your monolingual kids had
to prove to you on paper or ifthey were, you know, back then,
(28:33):
we would call it "boxes," wherethey had to, you know, slide a
box like " liiieee," liiieeeein a box. Or answer a question.
We would make our monolingualsanswer, write out the sentence
or answer a question, where oursecond-language learners, we
would sit there and say, "Well,if they can answer you orally,
take that and move on." Andsometimes I'm so embarrassed
(28:57):
that I'm actually saying someof this stuff out loud. But
what the Science of TeachingReading did, it kind of, and I
will tell you, a monolingualkid, some of them might move a
little faster and acquire theskills faster. But what is so
neat about it is, as you'regoing along in the units, in
the skills, there's assessmentsalong the way that you can look
(29:20):
at and see, "Okay, gosh, thesekids got it. They're, you know,
these kids, eh , they're kindof there . They don't have 'em
all, you know, an RTI, I'mgonna put 'em with the
classroom teacher. These kids,they're missing it by a big
chunk. What are we gonna do?"So our question and our data
dialogues , we always answertwo things.
Susan Lambert (29:37):
Okay.
Genie Baca (29:38):
What are we doing in RTI? Obviously, so in RTI,
your kids that, on your skillstest, that they're missing, how
are you gonna address it thesenext few days in your RTI? But
we also make teachers make aplan in Tier 1 instruction,
because—
Susan Lambert (29:55):
Ahhhh.
Genie Baca (29:55):
If you have anybody not accessing that Tier 1
instruction, you can't justspend an hour teaching and just
keep leaving 'em behind everyday and an hour and an hour
behind. So what we have ourteachers do in planning is,
"Where in your lesson are yougonna make it accessible to
those kids who are fallingbehind?" So our teachers always
(30:18):
have somebody with them inplanning every day. They either
have a coach or a curriculumspecialist. Somebody is with
them when they internalizetheir skills lesson, when they
internalize their knowledgelesson. And so we either have
their exit ticket out andlooking at what their exit
ticket was and how are we gonnaaddress their exit ticket in
tomorrow's lesson, or if it'sdata, if it's an assessment,
(30:41):
what are we gonna do with thekids who don't have it yet? And
so we are not gonna just waitfor RTI.
Susan Lambert (30:50):
Yep .
Genie Baca (30:50):
Most of my kids who are struggling in class are
kids who have a technologyaddiction. And so my hardest
kids to reach are kids who liveon a tablet or live on a phone
or get to play video games. Andso their brains are rewired for
the graphics behind that moveso fast. And they can't attend
(31:12):
to my teacher who is notmoving, like what they're used
to, you know ? And so for thefirst time, I have pre-Kers
coming to my school, which I'venever seen before, who really,
monolingual, refugees, itdoesn't matter, they're coming
with such limited language, andit doesn't have to do with,
(31:33):
because their parent doesn'tspeak English, more than "No
one's speaking to me at home."
Susan Lambert (31:40):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (31:40):
"No one's asking me how my day went. Nobody's
having a conversation with mewhen I'm sad, or reading a book
to me at night and asking mewhat that book's about." We
are, most of our kids in pre-Kare testing qualifying for
speech, and I've never seenanything like it before.
They're my harder-to-reach withthe skills and the Science of
(32:03):
Teaching Reading.
Susan Lambert (32:04):
Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about, you
mentioned the importance oforal language development. How
do you leverage that orallanguage, then, within the
schooling environment,especially for your
multilingual learners, to helpthem then make a connection to
both reading and writing?
Genie Baca (32:20):
Well, one of the things, like I was talking
earlier, our teachers, whenthey internalize their lessons,
they plan their turn-and-talks,but they also plan who they're
gonna ask what question to .
And so even though they pretendthey're pulling sticks, they
know, "I'm calling on so and sobecause yesterday they
struggled with this partyesterday. So today I'm calling
(32:42):
on this child for this." And soone of the things they do is ,
when a question is asked andsay they—everything's always
required a complete sentencewhen asked a question, but
it's, "Can you tell me more?
Okay, you answered the questionpretty correct, I'll take that
as an answer, but can you tellme more about that?"
Susan Lambert (33:02):
Oh, extending.
Genie Baca (33:03):
Extending their conversation, or asking kids,
or asking their partner, theirturn-and-talk partner, "Would
you build on your partner'sanswer? Can you build on that?"
Or if they really don't have anidea, well, "Listen to your
partner, call on somebody," butthe kids know, "I didn't know
it, but somebody else is gonnaanswer it, then I have to
(33:24):
repeat the answer that somebodyanswered for me in class." But
that's something we do inplanning, that we plan out, and
making sure that there's nolearned helplessness, 'cause
that was an issue we've had inthe past.
Susan Lambert (33:38):
Sure.
Genie Baca (33:39):
And that you're holding kids accountable for
the entire product. And that'sbeen a new thing. Before we
would take that one-wordresponse or a couple-word
response, or even just thatsentence that, eh , for the
most part, that's correct, butwhat was the exemplar answer?
What was the exemplar answeryou were really looking for,
(34:00):
and holding kids to theexemplar answer or working your
class to getting to thatexemplar answer. And so I think
that has upped the ante whenteachers have learned how
important language is for a kidto learn how to read and write.
Without language, you're notgonna have a good reader. And
so we have had to really bemore systematic in our planning
(34:23):
to make sure that we aregetting there.
Susan Lambert (34:26):
Hmm . Yeah.
That's a little bit, it makesme think a little bit of the
professional developmentcoupled with high-quality
instructional materials isreally. Powerful to know where
you need to sort of, you know,adapt to your local context
especially.
Genie Baca (34:41):
Yes.
Susan Lambert (34:41):
Like for you.
One other question. What aboutinvolving caregivers in the
community? How does that workfor you all there?
Genie Baca (34:49):
So, we have monthly parent meetings here where our
parents come in and theylearn... My basic topics, every
parent meeting, of course, Ialways tell parents, bedtime,
how many hours of sleep yourkids need. Technology,
obviously we talk abouttechnology, we talk about
attendance and whatever data wehave, we give the kids, their
parents, their current data andtry to explain to them with the
(35:11):
translators, what does thatlook like? And so one training
we had , every parent that camegot a book about learning what
their kid's love language is,and learning how to do that.
But one of the things we'veadded on this year, which I
think, to see it was reallyamazing. Our preK parents, have
invited our parents twice upinto the classroom, and they
(35:33):
have to rotate through centerswith their child.
Susan Lambert (35:37):
Oh, fun . So, yes. And the teacher's teaching
the parents as the kids rotate,and when they go to, say, the
Lego center, and the teacher'sshowing the parents how to play
with their children and how doyou ask questions while they're
playing, you know, like how doyou engage them in language and
(35:57):
conversation and then maybewhen they're in the reading
center, how to read a book andhow to, you know, how to do
those things. And so parentshave come up to the school and
got to rotate through withtheir child and got to see how,
what their child was learning,obviously, which is important.
But the teachers have done agood job in preK explaining to
parents, "What would this looklike in your house?" Like
(36:21):
bedtime, at night. Like, "Whatkind of questions, when you
read to your kids, do you ask?"And so , you know, and then of
course we have our basic, atnights, where we do fall
carnival and things like that,pass out free corn that's been
harvested and things like that,where our parents come up, open
house and school programs , Isaid, but for the most part is,
(36:42):
that we engage with parents, isparent meetings and what we've
started this year with preK.
That's great. That's great.
Before we get to some of thelessons learned, I know
probably our listeners aredying to know, you talked about
four years ago starting thischange to more
Science-of-Reading-basedpractices in the classroom. Has
it had an impact on studentoutcomes?
Genie Baca (37:04):
Oh , huge impact.
So before we did Science ofTeaching Reading, you know, the
pyramid , where, you know,it's, yes, 80 to 85%, you get
in Tier 1 and then what TierTwo, but ours was always upside
down, where 85% of our kidswere struggling. You know , our
pyramid was the opposite way,no matter what we did. But for
(37:29):
the first time, I'll use oursecond graders that we
currently have, they've had STRfor kindergarten, first, and
second. They've had they're ontheir third year, and we truly
look like the correct trianglewhere we have 10 to 15% of kids
that are still not quite there,that are still struggling, that
(37:50):
are still behind. But themajority of, 85% of our kids
are accessing grade-levelmaterials. And I do wanna say,
woo-hoo, something that'sreally been amazing, we're on
our third year , and for thefirst time in RTI and second,
third, fourth and fifth, areour kids who are being very
successful, are doing novelstudies in RTI.
Susan Lambert (38:14):
Oh, that's great.
Genie Baca (38:15):
Yes. And so, you know, for the first two years
we did skill lessons in RTI,but we finally got kids to
where they are true readers whocan read for meaning and can
enjoy a novel study during RTI,while the other kids were still
working on doing skilledlessons in RTI. And so that's,
(38:36):
that right there , is a big winfor us that we have gotten
there with our kids. And beingable to do that every day in
RTI for a huge number of ourkids yet to do the novel
studies during RTI. So , Ithink thats a big woo-hoo.
Yeah.
Susan Lambert (38:53):
Congratulations.
Genie Baca (38:55):
Thank you.
Susan Lambert (38:55):
Side note, if you hear any, like, thunder or
anything in the background, wehave a huge thunderstorm coming
through right now, so—.
Genie Baca (39:01):
Okay.
Susan Lambert (39:02):
It might get a little noisy. Let's talk about
lessons learned as you lookback. What are some lessons
learned for you?
Genie Baca (39:11):
Well, I , so, one of the things we learned in
Science of Teaching Reading,which , gosh, I don't know why
I didn't know this before. Sowhen kids are hearing their
teacher teach and talk, or theteacher's reading them a read
aloud, what small part of theirbrain is ignited? You know, you
see those little brain scans?
And how much? And so prior, youknow, if you didn't stay on an
(39:36):
AB guided reading book all yearlong, you know, but how much ,
I just think about prior to thethree years we've been on, how
much ignition we were doing ina brain. Like how much access
was that brain turning on? Butwhen you got, when we learned
in the Science of TeachingReading that when they are
(39:57):
talking while they read, likethey're reading texts, how the
whole brain turns on, isamazing! So prior to, what I
would say, before the Scienceof Teaching Reading, we did a
lot talking to our kids. We dida lot of read alouds to our
kids and maybe asked a coupleof questions. And we still, I
(40:18):
mean our , even though we callour knowledge building a read
aloud , it's not the same readaloud we did prior. It is
engaging more. But what I thinkabout what we do in kinder
second semester, first andsecond grade, with our readers,
and the amount of texts thatour kids are reading, and I
think if I could see a brainscan of my second-grade kids
(40:41):
now compared to a brain scan tomy second-grade kids four years
ago, and I think, what adisservice we did to our babies
back then. And now that we knowbetter? And we know more about
the research , and that howspeaking and reading go
together , we're just gettingsmarter. We're just learning
(41:03):
more about how reading works,how the brain works, how kids
acquire knowledge, and we justhave to be smarter, I guess, in
how we do things.
Susan Lambert (41:15):
Hmm . And thoughtful, it sounds like you
really talk about and examineand look at the things that are
happening in the classroom andhow the students are
responding. And I think that'sreally important too. Well, a
couple of things I wanna saythank you for all your
transparency here. I think yousaid a couple times in the
course of this recording, Ican't believe I'm saying this,
it's so embarrassing. But Ithink for that transparency for
(41:35):
others, others have felt thatway, too. I know I have felt
that way, too, on my learningjourney here. So I just wanna
thank you for being transparentabout your own learning
journey. I think that's reallyimportant.
Genie Baca (41:46):
You're welcome .
Susan Lambert (41:47):
So, you know, before we wrap up, do you have
any final thoughts for ourlisteners? Any words of advice
or wisdom?
Genie Baca (41:55):
If you are one of those districts or one of those
schools have who have beenputting off this research, go
for it, is all I can say. Ithas paid off. It's made a
believer of our teachers, ourparents, the teachers,
administrators. You are gonnasee students, a well-rounded
(42:17):
reading student, somebody whocan read, somebody who can
write, somebody who can deeplyhave discourse over what
they're learning , that areexcited about what they're
learning, and they rememberwhat they're learning. Our
third graders exactly rememberwhat they learned in knowledge
building in the lower grades.
And they still can talk deeplyabout everything they've
(42:40):
learned in the prior years. Andso I think that's been a big
difference, is we are doingcurriculum and we're doing the
Science of Teaching Reading iscreating and solidifying
learning and building all thosefoundational skills that we
need in primary. And it's verysystematic. It's done very
thoughtful and it's wellplanned , what we need to do to
(43:03):
get kids to learn how to read.
It's so amazing to go in aclassroom and see them having,
talking about empathy and howthe characters feel and how the
characters change over time.
And you can really get intosome meaty conversations
because they're finally, beforethe reading, the text took all
(43:25):
their cognitive load, you know, it took everything because
they were so far behind inreading and trying to decode
the words and, you know? That'swhere their brain power went.
But now that kids know how toread? And they can spend their
cognitive load on, "Oh my God,I can't believe that happened
in the story!" And "Oh my God,it broke my heart when that
(43:47):
happened." And that's beenamazing to see that kids get to
put their energy on things youwould've wanted them to do all
the time instead of justworking on decoding texts,
that's such a hard struggle for'em . And so I would say go for
it. It is an experience. It'snot too hard, the first couple
(44:07):
of months, you know, it's likefiguring it out. But once you
get figuring it out, it movespretty quick.
Susan Lambert (44:13):
That's amazing.
Well, thank you for sharingyour wisdom, your wise words,
your, you know, strugglethrough the journey . And
congratulations on all yoursuccess you've had there.
Genie Baca (44:23):
Thank you.
Susan Lambert (44:24):
And thank you so much for joining us. We really
appreciate it.
Genie Baca (44:27):
You're welcome. It was nice seeing you.
Susan Lambert (44:31):
Thanks so much for listening to my
conversation with Genie Baca,Principal at Eastridge
Elementary in Amarillo, Texas.
Check out the show notes forlinks to some of the resources
we discussed. Also, join theconversation about this episode
and this series in our Facebookdiscussion group, Science of
Reading (44:51):
The Community. Next time, we're closing out our
miniseries exploring how theScience of Reading serves
multilingual and Englishlearners. To do that, we're
hearing from an amazing youngeducator about how he brings
the Science of Reading to hisbilingual classroom.
Arturo Valadez Saenz (45:08):
Sometimes we are operating in a reactive
way, waiting all the way 'tilthe unit assessment to look at
the standards and identifyingthose trends . However, we have
the power to collect dataduring formative assessments on
a daily basis, just by walkingaround, walking around. Look at
(45:30):
what their students areproducing in the moment.
Susan Lambert (45:32):
That's coming up next time on Science of
Reading (45:34):
The Podcast. Science of Reading
brought to you by Amplify. Formore information on how amplify
leverages the Science ofReading, go to
amplify.com/ckla. Thank you somuch for listening.
It's serving every child we have in the seat,
whether they're monolingual orthey speak two or three
languages. What works is, it isa systematic approach to
learning how to read.
Susan Lambert (00:15):
This is Susan Lambert and welcome to Science
of Reading (00:17):
The Podcast from Amplify, where the Science of
Reading lives. Amarillo, Texas,is an international
resettlement community forrefugees. That's why, At
Eastridge Elementary, studentsspeak some 39 different
languages. On today's episode,we're hearing from the
principal at Eastridge, GenieBaca. Principal Baca is a
(00:41):
former ESL teacher herself and,On this episode, she talks
about the way her school hasused the Science of Reading to
successfully develop theliteracy skills of students.
Listeners, I think you'll enjoyhearing about Principal Baca's
own Science of Readingturnaround, the story of
Eastridge Elementary, and someof her advice for using the
(01:03):
Science of Reading to servemultilingual and English
learners. Here's myconversation with Principal
Baca. Well, welcome Genie Baca,thank you so much for joining
us on today's episode. We'reexcited to have you here.
Genie Baca (01:19):
I'm excited to be here.
Susan Lambert (01:21):
We can't wait to hear your story, and I know
that you have so much to sharewith our listeners and
particularly important becauseyou are on the ground doing the
work right now. So before wejump into all of those details,
I would just love if you couldshare a little bit about your
background and your currentrole to give our listeners just
some context.
Genie Baca (01:42):
Okay. I'm on my 33rd year in education here in
Texas.
Susan Lambert (01:47):
Congratulations, wow!
Genie Baca (01:50):
The end is near ! I started obviously as a
classroom teacher, moved intocurriculum specialist, then
assistant principal. And thelast 18 years I've been a
principal leading schools. Oneof the funniest things I look
back on is for many, manyyears, I was a balanced
literacy trainer for mydistrict and a reading recovery
(02:14):
teacher for 10 years. And so ,that was just part of my
journey to where we are now.
Susan Lambert (02:21):
Yeah. We'll talk a little bit more about that. I
love that you shared thatbecause there's a lot of our
listeners sitting in the samesituation, whether they're
classroom teachers now orthey're in different kinds of
roles. But it's a real thing tothink about how you shift your
thinking and your practice tomore Science-of-Reading-based
approaches. So thanks for beingtransparent about that.
Genie Baca (02:43):
You're welcome.
Susan Lambert (02:44):
So you are a principal in a school right
now. Can you tell us a littlebit of the context of the
school? Because this is thereally interesting part, and I
know our listeners are justgoing to be excited to hear
about that.
Genie Baca (02:56):
I have my little school here, and it's not very
little. We're quite large. Idon't think there's another
school anywhere, I know inTexas, like us . We have mainly
just refugees. And so what wedo have here in Amarillo are
meatpacking for work. And sothat's one of the reasons
(03:17):
refugees get settled here. Andso I do have mainly
second-language learners on mycampus. We currently have 39
languages spoken on my campus.
Susan Lambert (03:27):
Wow.
Genie Baca (03:28):
So for 14 years I've been here and working on
just teaching kids to beproductive adults with what we
had over the years. And so—
Susan Lambert (03:38):
What grade levels do you serve there?
Genie Baca (03:41):
We start at three , pre-K three, pre-K four, and
then go all the way up to fifthgrade.
Susan Lambert (03:46):
Okay. And then how many students altogether
this year?
Genie Baca (03:50):
Right now we're , one of the things that's been
common in everywhere, butespecially in Texas, is
dropping of enrollment. Sonormally have , would always
stay in 800s, but we are alsoaffected by that. And we're
sitting at 560 right now.
Susan Lambert (04:04):
Okay. But still, how many languages did you say
were spoken?
Genie Baca (04:07):
39.
Susan Lambert (04:09):
Wow. And that brings all kind of
complications in and of itself.
And, and we can sort of talkabout that a little bit.
Anything else you wanna tell usthat's important about the
context of the school?
Genie Baca (04:21):
Yes. So, a lot of times you'll have campuses that
are bilingual and most of theirkids are Hispanic, but their
kids have come from Mexico andthey've been in school. Their
instruction has been inSpanish, but our kids come from
refugee camps, so they'reunschooled refugees. And so
whether they come in at fifthor third or kindergarten,
(04:42):
they're unschooled. And so theydon't come in with a written
language. They can't write orread in their first language.
And so makes things morechallenging. We can't really
assimilate from first languageto second language because that
first language instruction wasnot there.
Susan Lambert (04:59):
And so many of your students then haven't even
been in a schoolingenvironment. So it's sort of
acclimating them to thatprocess as well.
Genie Baca (05:07):
Yeah. People don't understand when you are in a
refugee camp, you are isolatedfrom your country, and they
grow up there. Like they mightstay 12, 15 years in refugee
camp before they get out andget , you know, be able to get
accepted into a country. And soit's not a easy place to grow
up in. They have some storiesfrom growing up in a refugee
(05:29):
camp, but that's our thing.
When we communicate with ourparents, we do everything
orally. We could translate allour communication, but they
can't read it. Well, some can,but for the majority of them,
can't. And so we have learnedover the years, we just do oral
translation for all ourcommunication.
Susan Lambert (05:47):
How does that happen? Do you send out audio,
video? What does that looklike?
Genie Baca (05:51):
So we have systems where you can record. So like
our Somalian translator will dothe message in Somalian, and,
and it's sent to just herparents, our Burmese, our
Karen, our Karenni , you know,Vietnamese, Laotian, whatever
language, our translatorrecords it and then the parents
get it in their language.
Susan Lambert (06:13):
That's amazing.
How many translators do youhave to be able to accomplish
that?
Genie Baca (06:18):
I have about 19, but the thing is, they speak
multiple languages because inBurma, Thailand, they speak
many dialects. And so one ofmine can speak Burmese, Karen,
Karenni, Thai, which helps.
Susan Lambert (06:33):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (06:34):
So they're instructional assistants, is
really their title. But theydo, and what languages we don't
have a person for then we havea system called, it's like a
language line where you get onand they find the person you
need to help.
Susan Lambert (06:51):
So those , what did you call them?
Genie Baca (06:53):
Instructional assistants. So they spend their
time in the classrooms, and sowe kind of organize it where
our kids that are strugglingin, say, first grade and this
classroom, well, maybe they'reseveral Somalian kids. So we do
their schedule, where thatSomalian translator is in that
Tier 1 instruction helping outwith those students. And so we
(07:16):
kind of attach them to our kidswho need more assistance in the
classrooms.
Susan Lambert (07:21):
Got it. And what about languages? Do you have
one language that's morecommon? Or not?
Genie Baca (07:29):
Yes. Karen is our most common, our biggest—
Susan Lambert (07:32):
Wow.
Genie Baca (07:32):
—language, yes.
Susan Lambert (07:34):
And I am I'm sure many folks listening to
this podcast don't know whatcountry kids that speak Karen
come from.
Genie Baca (07:44):
Burma.
Susan Lambert (07:44):
Burma.
Genie Baca (07:44):
But most of them have been sitting in a refugee
camp in Thailand, and so theyescape Burma to Thailand. And
so that's where they pick up alot of Thai, too. And so when
we get them , they usuallyspeak both by the time we get
'em .
Susan Lambert (08:01):
So because you're in Texas, my guess
would've been Spanish, but thatwould've been wrong!
Genie Baca (08:07):
My largest population is Asian.
Susan Lambert (08:09):
Quick question.
Did you ever think that youwere gonna be leading a school
that had that many differentlanguages? Was multilingual
education something you wereinterested in?
Genie Baca (08:18):
I was an ESL teacher, and so, yes, I loved
being an ESL teacher, but I didnot want this campus! When it
came open 14 years ago, I hadseveral colleagues call and
say, "call and say you wantthat!" And I was like, "Oh, no,
no, no way!" Because it was atschool like, "Oh, that's so
hard." Like, I feel for theperson who has that school. And
(08:40):
so I got the call when I was ata conference, from my
superintendent telling me I wasmoving to be the principal at
Eastridge. And I cried, criedand cried. And you know, you
say, you know, "Thank you forthe opportunity," you know, but
as soon as you hang up thephone, it was like, "Noooo!"
But when I came and I met mystaff that summer, I inherited
(09:03):
a staff that were so amazingand so hardworking and ready
for a change. Because we werein school improvement. When I
got Eastridge, we were introuble. And so the first thing
I did was just sit witheverybody. And that was the
first thing, was like, I havethe best staff, and now? You
can ask my superintendent, ifhe moves me, I retire. So he's
(09:25):
not allowed to move me. So it'sa whole different—
Susan Lambert (09:31):
We have that on a podcast recording, too, for
the world to hear! That'sfunny. So, what was the school
like when you first got there,paint us a little picture of
that.
Genie Baca (09:45):
So, first thing they tell you when you get a
school, just by yourself, gowalk in classrooms and, you
know, just look at what's inclassrooms and what they have
and what they need. And I was aTitle I campus, and so, you
know, with Title I comes money,and I think the first thing I
was taken back from was theydidn't have the needed
materials. I didn't see anyeasels in classroom, any rugs
(10:05):
in classrooms. Just basicthings that you would want in
elementary classrooms weremissing. And so their morale
was really low because , theywere, they'd been in school
improvement. They were introuble for years. And so they
were beat down. And when I metwith my teachers, they were
doing everything they knew todo. It wasn't that they were
(10:29):
not working hard, they justexhausted all, they didn't have
any other strategies. And sofirst thing we did is I sat
with them, got to know them,and said, "What do you need in
your room?" We started withbasics of , and we ordered
every classroom a rug,everybody an easel ,
smartboards, back in the daywhen we had smartboards, we
ordered everybody smartboards,you know, all just the needed
(10:52):
material. So first of all, theycouldn't say, "I didn't have
the needed materials to createschool improvement." We got rid
of that excuse. And then werolled up our sleeves and
started working on systems forschool improvement. And if you
talk to anybody in thisdistrict, I'm a systems girl. I
have a system for everything. Ihave a system for planning, a
(11:14):
system for Tier 1, a system forRTI, everything we have a
system for. We monitor oursystems and we hold everybody
accountable for the work we do.
And we quickly got outta schoolimprovement and have stayed
outta school improvement for 14years.
Susan Lambert (11:30):
That's awesome.
Genie Baca (11:31):
But barely, you know, especially in reading.
Susan Lambert (11:34):
Yeah. Yeah .
Genie Baca (11:35):
Our math has always done well. Math is universal,
but reading, we would just, youknow, stay like a D score, not
in trouble, but we'd be a D andwe'd make very minimal growth
every year. Every year. Thenobviously four years ago is
when every teacher in my campushad to go through the training
(11:57):
of Science of Teaching Reading,which—
Susan Lambert (11:59):
Yeah. Yep .
Genie Baca (12:00):
Changed things.
Yes.
Susan Lambert (12:02):
Yeah. We'll get to that in just a minute. I'm
really curious to understandhow the staff reacted when you
came in, because it seems to methat you paid attention to the
things that they need. So howdid you get them, you know,
outside of, "you need stuff inyour classroom to make it feel
like a classroom and work likea classroom"? Were there other
(12:24):
ways that you helped them geton board with making changes?
How did they react to all ofthat?
Genie Baca (12:29):
They—surprisingly, beautifully. Like, I really,
that's why I tell people, I,the staff I got was amazing.
But the thing I came with thatmy staff didn't have when I
came was training inprofessional learning
communities. And so that was mything. And so my first year I
taught professional learningcommunities and talked about
(12:50):
systems and stuff. And then wewent and took every single
teacher through that three-daytraining, you know, San Diego,
San Antonio, you know, all overthe country, and made sure that
every one of my staff memberswent through. And what
professional learningcommunities does, it teaches
you, again, systems on how tolook at data , how to lesson
(13:13):
plan, how to make formativeassessments , how do you
respond to data, the wholeeverything. And we slowly, we
just started moving. Andeverybody, you know... And so,
not everybody, I shouldn't sayeverybody, everybody has to get
on the bus, but if you're notwilling to get on the bus and
roll up your sleeves and dowhat everybody else is doing,
(13:35):
you know, then you get off thebus and leave. And that first
year after my first year,that's exactly what happened.
The people who did not wannawork smart and hard left. And
then we, there we went, thepeople who weren't willing to
get on the bus got off and wewent to moving.
Susan Lambert (13:55):
So I'm gonna say this tongue in cheek , but I'm
sure you have a process forprofessional learning
communities now in your school,right?
Genie Baca (14:02):
Yes.
Susan Lambert (14:03):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (14:04):
We call it collaboration, yes, but PLC is
everything. It's everything wedo all day long is a PLC. But
then of course, part of that,where we do the deep work, is
in weekly collaboration.
Susan Lambert (14:14):
Yeah. That's amazing. So you really did
spend a lot of time focused onthe people in your building,
getting them the resources andthe professional development
they need to really build thatculture, that culture of
professional learning, beforeyou could build that culture of
student learning, then.
Genie Baca (14:31):
It's all about teacher capacity.
Susan Lambert (14:34):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (14:35):
Our teachers wanted to do more. They just didn't
have the capacity to do it.
They were doing everything theycould and learning about
teacher efficacy along the way.
And what does that look like?
And how do we do that?
Susan Lambert (14:47):
That's great .
Genie Baca (14:48):
And I don't know how to do that, but we're gonna
show you and we're gonna helpyou.
Susan Lambert (14:52):
All right . So you mentioned that four years
ago, you all started to changethe way that you taught
reading. What happened? Whatwas that process?
Genie Baca (15:01):
Well, it was the first year, and we were one of
the ones that volunteered. AndI will tell you what happened.
I think you heard me saying ourteachers were the hands-down
best lesson planners. I could ,I still have copies of them in
our system. So we lessonplanned , we unpacked
standards, we made ourassessments , we did it all ,
(15:23):
but it took hours. So ourteachers were working such late
hours, like 5:30, 6. We werestaying so late preparing, and
everybody was good at what theydid, and it was kind of keeping
us out of school improvement,but teachers were just getting
worn out. And so when we hadthe process of the end of the
(15:43):
year, when you do your needsassessment and your campus
improvement plan , one of thesections you have to do is
processes and procedures. Theteachers did say, "We need a
different procedure. Like, wegotta figure out something
different." And so I rememberwhen I did my end-of-year
evaluation with my boss, myassistant superintendent, I
(16:03):
brought that up and said, youknow, "My teachers, they're
worn out."
Susan Lambert (16:07):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (16:07):
And they're looking for something different. And so
that just happened, a monthlater, our superintendent got
notified. So we went through,four years ago, our whole
entire staff went through, wewere one of the first campuses
in our district that wentthrough the 14 modules of the
Science of Teaching Reading andgot trained on it. And so we
(16:28):
had all this training.
Susan Lambert (16:29):
Okay. And for those listeners that aren't
aware of this in Texas, can youexplain what that looked like
in the state of Texas, in termsof that training?
Genie Baca (16:37):
Yes . So it's quite intense. There's quite a,
there's 14 modules and it'slike in Canvas. Ours was in
Canvas. So we had a presenterthat was attached to us that
would come to our campus and wewould do Module One. And so
we'd have homework assignmentsin Module One where we'd have
to read things and go ahead anddo certain parts of the module.
(16:59):
And then we would come togetherand solidify our learning with
our module. There wereartifacts we had to do to turn
in and get graded. We had topass the whole process of the
Science of Teaching Reading.
Like, not only did we have todo the 14 modules, we had
artifacts and we had to passour artifacts. We had to pass
all the assessments in there .
(17:20):
So after Module One, you wouldhave like a little quiz,
several quizzes in there, andthen like a summative
assessment in Module One. Andthey were broken up. Like, you
know, one module might be abouthow important language is to
reading and how the brain workswith speech and reading and ,
you know, learning aboutScarborough's Rope or, you
know, the Simple View ofReading. We pretty much learned
(17:43):
what we should have learned incollege. Or maybe we learned
real quickly in college, but wedidn't understand it 'cause we
didn't come back to school andapply it.
Susan Lambert (17:51):
Mm-hm.
Genie Baca (17:51):
And so we had had the training, we were still
doing our old ways of guidedreading and balanced literacy
as we were going through thistraining. And then that's when
our teachers, we have newlearning under our belt. What
we're doing in class really isnot matching what we just
learned that the state asked usto do. So we were like, well ,
(18:11):
"The state asked us, this isrequired for all
administrators, all teachers,but really what we're doing in
Tier 1 instruction or in RTIisn't matching what we
learned." And so our teachersare starting to question,
'cause one of the things wehave really built , if you see
my little sign there, "Learningis required."
Susan Lambert (18:30):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (18:30):
That is our mantra, for our kids, our parents, for
everybody. And so they'relearning and now they're
questioning. And so that's whenwe, I tell my boss, "It's time
for something different. Myteachers are needing something
different." And then we get acall that summer after Texas
teaching the Reading Academies.
And our commissioner ofeducation wants us to try an
(18:53):
HQIM.
Susan Lambert (18:53):
HQIM is high-quality instructional
materials.
Genie Baca (18:56):
We were like, "Sure, let's, what else do we
have to lose? Let's, let's dothis." And so that summer, in
summer school, we just playedwith it, 'cause it was nothing
like we've ever done before. Sothey gave us permission to play
with it in summer school, whichwas, thank go,d that was
amazing that we had time to...
"What does this mean?" And"What?" And "Gosh." And then
(19:21):
August came and we started it.
And what was nice was, firstthing, even though I say our
teachers made the mostincredible lesson plans, the
first thing they realized afterprobably a few weeks into the
HQIM, which covered all ofScience of Teaching Reading,
was we would've never been ableto produce this high-quality
(19:43):
lesson plans. Like ,that wasthe first thing, even though
they were working hard, theselessons that we were given that
were, you know, written bypeople with doctorates and
curriculum writing , we werejust missing the boat. And so,
it was a rough start. I willtell you, it wasn't an easy
start, but , about October, wewere flowin'.
Susan Lambert (20:04):
Hmm . Well, we'll come back to that. So,
I'm gonna go all the way backto when you were going through
the Texas Reading Academies.
You were learning alongsideyour teachers at the same time.
Is that right? You were, wereyou all doing these modules
together?
Genie Baca (20:19):
Yes, but you gotta realize, I was a balanced
literacy trainer and a readingrecovery teacher going through
this.
Susan Lambert (20:24):
Yes!
Genie Baca (20:25):
I would be like, "Oh." It was so hard for me. My
teachers, they took it like,"Oh yeah—
Susan Lambert (20:31):
Tell me more about that. How hard was that
for you?
Genie Baca (20:37):
So hard. So hard because, not that I was
brainwashed or anything likethat, but for 33 years, not 33,
we've been 29 years, I guess.
29 years. My whole beliefsystem, everything I spoke on,
believed, argued, fought for.
(20:57):
Everything I did was all aboutbalanced literacy and guided
reading. The three-cueingsources and , you know , that,
and so it was a hard change forme. It was, I had to see it
happen and see what our, thedifference before I changed my
(21:21):
belief system. I went throughthe course and there were some
parts of Science of TeachingReading. "Yeah, I get this,
this makes sense." Thecomprehension part, you know,
the knowledge building. Yeah,we don't, "This would be good
for our second-languagelearners," but my whole mind
frame was leveled readers,three-cueing sources, stay two
(21:44):
hours in your reading block,reading below grade level. And
now I look back at it and I'mlike, "Oh my God." We were
doing Tier Two in Tier 1 for 29years and never thought once
that we were hurting kids. Youknow?
Susan Lambert (22:02):
Do you remember a particular moment? You said
you had to see it, was there aparticular moment you can
remember when it was like, "Oh,this really clicks!"
Genie Baca (22:11):
I tell people all the time. So my teachers, it's
a thing, every time, every fewweeks, put new learning out in
the hall. So we have visitorshere all the time. And so when
we do a walk, we can justquickly tell what's going on in
each classroom. But the writingthat our kids produced in
September, October, November,the quality, for the first time
(22:35):
in our lives, kids werespelling words correctly, not
phonetically. That blew mymind. It just blew my mind. And
I was like, "Oh my God, thisstuff is really working." And
it didn't take long. It reallywas the first semester of us
doing the systemized, theskills, the phonics. It was
(22:57):
fast. Not everybody's that way.
We got some veteran teachers,you know, that still have a
hard time with it. But meleading a new way, I couldn't
just lead my campus into theScience of Teaching Reading if
I didn't open myself up to,maybe I was wrong. And so I had
to, I had to have that little ," Okay, well." You know, it
(23:23):
wasn't easy, but it really tookme looking at student work to
prove that what I had beendoing all these years wasn't
working.
Susan Lambert (23:35):
You know, it's so curious to me that you use
writing as an example, becauseone of the myths about the
Science of Reading is thatwe're, you know, we're only
talking about what it takes todevelop skilled readers, but
the fact that reading andwriting are so reciprocally
related. Right? Yeah. It'sreally interesting that you saw
that come out in their writing.
(23:56):
That's really cool.
Genie Baca (23:58):
So, we do an hour of phonics, explicit phonics
training every day . Butbeforehand, is this
embarrassing to say? I amreally embarrassed to say what
I'm fixing to say. We did maybefive or ten minutes of word
work on the horseshoe tablewhen we had the kids with us at
the guided reading table. Butthat was the extent of our
(24:20):
phonics work. Five or tenminutes of word work, and off
we went. And now that we aredevoting an hour of the day,
it's just—.
Susan Lambert (24:28):
And it—
Genie Baca (24:30):
Go ahead.
Susan Lambert (24:30):
It must be beyond just phonics, though. So
phonics like in a, so you'retalking about your hour that
you're spending on thoseskills, it's phonemic awareness
and it's phonics and it'swriting and it's reading
connected text, right? So it'snot just strict phonics
instruction. Is that right?
Genie Baca (24:47):
Right. Because it also builds, as they're
learning phonics, well, so thecool thing is they're learning
skills. And it's allsystematic. It's all done in a
correct order. But what is socool about how the designers of
this, is they, first graders,they're learning skills in
their phonics curriculum. Butwhen they get their reader that
(25:10):
they're gonna read, texts,ongoing text, they've been
taught every skill that theyneed to be able to read that
text. And it's just, the layoutis just amazing that , and it's
not, you know, when peoplethink of decodables , you think
it's that one sentence on apage? No, it is stories. And
(25:34):
there are decodables. They'reworking on fluency on those
skills and those readers. Butwhen I saw those readers for
the first time, I said, "Theseare decodables? Oh my God. This
is great text that kids arereading on." And so just to get
to see kids learn everythingthey need to know. And not all
kids, we catch 80, 85% in Tier1 instruction. And then, of
(25:58):
course, in Tier Two, we have tobe systematic in Tier Two and
catch those kids who are notgetting it all in Tier 1. But
just the language developmentthat is in every aspect of the
curriculum is amazing.
Susan Lambert (26:14):
So I wanna go back to another myth, which is,
there's a myth that some ofthese evidence-based practices
or Science-of-Reading-basedpractices are only for
monolingual learners. Butyou're using the Science of
Reading approach in a schoolthat's very much about many,
many languages. So what was itthat you thought, "Wow, this is
(26:36):
really working, this is workingfor my multilingual learners as
well, and it's serving them."
Genie Baca (26:42):
Well, I think it's serving every child we have in
the seat, whether they'remonolingual or they speak two
or three languages, what worksis it is a systematic approach
to learning how to read. It isdone in a progression of what
every kid needs. And so, wherethe difference before, I will
(27:06):
tell you, I think it's thebiggest thing I see and why
it's working, is for the, notthe first time, but it's just,
we're more focused on it thanwe have ever been, is kids
articulating their learning inclass. And so, like, if you
came and you sat in myclassroom, you would see that
every teacher holds every kidin the classroom, when they're
(27:29):
in skills, knowledge, itdoesn't matter, science, math
class, whatever class you arein, every teacher holds kids to
answering in completesentences. And then let's just
talk, 'cause we're talkin' ELAhere. When we're in skills and
we're working on work,everything is, we teach, it's
like the habits of discussion,building on to what you learned
(27:50):
yesterday or building on from askill you learned earlier in
the lesson. And let's talkabout it. Let's, "Explain it to
me. What do you understand?
What do you know? Now let'sapply it." And that's what I
see the big difference isbecause before we did a
systematic phonics instruction,I would see, and I was even
(28:12):
okay with it, and I dunno why Iwas okay with it , but we had
so much of an expectation andwe thought that it was okay if
your kids could answer youorally, take that response as,
they got it, where everybodyelse, your monolingual kids had
to prove to you on paper or ifthey were, you know, back then,
(28:33):
we would call it "boxes," wherethey had to, you know, slide a
box like " liiieee," liiieeeein a box. Or answer a question.
We would make our monolingualsanswer, write out the sentence
or answer a question, where oursecond-language learners, we
would sit there and say, "Well,if they can answer you orally,
take that and move on." Andsometimes I'm so embarrassed
(28:57):
that I'm actually saying someof this stuff out loud. But
what the Science of TeachingReading did, it kind of, and I
will tell you, a monolingualkid, some of them might move a
little faster and acquire theskills faster. But what is so
neat about it is, as you'regoing along in the units, in
the skills, there's assessmentsalong the way that you can look
(29:20):
at and see, "Okay, gosh, thesekids got it. They're, you know,
these kids, eh , they're kindof there . They don't have 'em
all, you know, an RTI, I'mgonna put 'em with the
classroom teacher. These kids,they're missing it by a big
chunk. What are we gonna do?"So our question and our data
dialogues , we always answertwo things.
Susan Lambert (29:37):
Okay.
Genie Baca (29:38):
What are we doing in RTI? Obviously, so in RTI,
your kids that, on your skillstest, that they're missing, how
are you gonna address it thesenext few days in your RTI? But
we also make teachers make aplan in Tier 1 instruction,
because—
Susan Lambert (29:55):
Ahhhh.
Genie Baca (29:55):
If you have anybody not accessing that Tier 1
instruction, you can't justspend an hour teaching and just
keep leaving 'em behind everyday and an hour and an hour
behind. So what we have ourteachers do in planning is,
"Where in your lesson are yougonna make it accessible to
those kids who are fallingbehind?" So our teachers always
(30:18):
have somebody with them inplanning every day. They either
have a coach or a curriculumspecialist. Somebody is with
them when they internalizetheir skills lesson, when they
internalize their knowledgelesson. And so we either have
their exit ticket out andlooking at what their exit
ticket was and how are we gonnaaddress their exit ticket in
tomorrow's lesson, or if it'sdata, if it's an assessment,
(30:41):
what are we gonna do with thekids who don't have it yet? And
so we are not gonna just waitfor RTI.
Susan Lambert (30:50):
Yep .
Genie Baca (30:50):
Most of my kids who are struggling in class are
kids who have a technologyaddiction. And so my hardest
kids to reach are kids who liveon a tablet or live on a phone
or get to play video games. Andso their brains are rewired for
the graphics behind that moveso fast. And they can't attend
(31:12):
to my teacher who is notmoving, like what they're used
to, you know ? And so for thefirst time, I have pre-Kers
coming to my school, which I'venever seen before, who really,
monolingual, refugees, itdoesn't matter, they're coming
with such limited language, andit doesn't have to do with,
(31:33):
because their parent doesn'tspeak English, more than "No
one's speaking to me at home."
Susan Lambert (31:40):
Yeah.
Genie Baca (31:40):
"No one's asking me how my day went. Nobody's
having a conversation with mewhen I'm sad, or reading a book
to me at night and asking mewhat that book's about." We
are, most of our kids in pre-Kare testing qualifying for
speech, and I've never seenanything like it before.
They're my harder-to-reach withthe skills and the Science of
(32:03):
Teaching Reading.
Susan Lambert (32:04):
Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about, you
mentioned the importance oforal language development. How
do you leverage that orallanguage, then, within the
schooling environment,especially for your
multilingual learners, to helpthem then make a connection to
both reading and writing?
Genie Baca (32:20):
Well, one of the things, like I was talking
earlier, our teachers, whenthey internalize their lessons,
they plan their turn-and-talks,but they also plan who they're
gonna ask what question to .
And so even though they pretendthey're pulling sticks, they
know, "I'm calling on so and sobecause yesterday they
struggled with this partyesterday. So today I'm calling
(32:42):
on this child for this." And soone of the things they do is ,
when a question is asked andsay they—everything's always
required a complete sentencewhen asked a question, but
it's, "Can you tell me more?
Okay, you answered the questionpretty correct, I'll take that
as an answer, but can you tellme more about that?"
Susan Lambert (33:02):
Oh, extending.
Genie Baca (33:03):
Extending their conversation, or asking kids,
or asking their partner, theirturn-and-talk partner, "Would
you build on your partner'sanswer? Can you build on that?"
Or if they really don't have anidea, well, "Listen to your
partner, call on somebody," butthe kids know, "I didn't know
it, but somebody else is gonnaanswer it, then I have to
(33:24):
repeat the answer that somebodyanswered for me in class." But
that's something we do inplanning, that we plan out, and
making sure that there's nolearned helplessness, 'cause
that was an issue we've had inthe past.
Susan Lambert (33:38):
Sure.
Genie Baca (33:39):
And that you're holding kids accountable for
the entire product. And that'sbeen a new thing. Before we
would take that one-wordresponse or a couple-word
response, or even just thatsentence that, eh , for the
most part, that's correct, butwhat was the exemplar answer?
What was the exemplar answeryou were really looking for,
(34:00):
and holding kids to theexemplar answer or working your
class to getting to thatexemplar answer. And so I think
that has upped the ante whenteachers have learned how
important language is for a kidto learn how to read and write.
Without language, you're notgonna have a good reader. And
so we have had to really bemore systematic in our planning
(34:23):
to make sure that we aregetting there.
Susan Lambert (34:26):
Hmm . Yeah.
That's a little bit, it makesme think a little bit of the
professional developmentcoupled with high-quality
instructional materials isreally. Powerful to know where
you need to sort of, you know,adapt to your local context
especially.
Genie Baca (34:41):
Yes.
Susan Lambert (34:41):
Like for you.
One other question. What aboutinvolving caregivers in the
community? How does that workfor you all there?
Genie Baca (34:49):
So, we have monthly parent meetings here where our
parents come in and theylearn... My basic topics, every
parent meeting, of course, Ialways tell parents, bedtime,
how many hours of sleep yourkids need. Technology,
obviously we talk abouttechnology, we talk about
attendance and whatever data wehave, we give the kids, their
parents, their current data andtry to explain to them with the
(35:11):
translators, what does thatlook like? And so one training
we had , every parent that camegot a book about learning what
their kid's love language is,and learning how to do that.
But one of the things we'veadded on this year, which I
think, to see it was reallyamazing. Our preK parents, have
invited our parents twice upinto the classroom, and they
(35:33):
have to rotate through centerswith their child.
Susan Lambert (35:37):
Oh, fun . So, yes. And the teacher's teaching
the parents as the kids rotate,and when they go to, say, the
Lego center, and the teacher'sshowing the parents how to play
with their children and how doyou ask questions while they're
playing, you know, like how doyou engage them in language and
(35:57):
conversation and then maybewhen they're in the reading
center, how to read a book andhow to, you know, how to do
those things. And so parentshave come up to the school and
got to rotate through withtheir child and got to see how,
what their child was learning,obviously, which is important.
But the teachers have done agood job in preK explaining to
parents, "What would this looklike in your house?" Like
(36:21):
bedtime, at night. Like, "Whatkind of questions, when you
read to your kids, do you ask?"And so , you know, and then of
course we have our basic, atnights, where we do fall
carnival and things like that,pass out free corn that's been
harvested and things like that,where our parents come up, open
house and school programs , Isaid, but for the most part is,
(36:42):
that we engage with parents, isparent meetings and what we've
started this year with preK.
That's great. That's great.
Before we get to some of thelessons learned, I know
probably our listeners aredying to know, you talked about
four years ago starting thischange to more
Science-of-Reading-basedpractices in the classroom. Has
it had an impact on studentoutcomes?
Genie Baca (37:04):
Oh , huge impact.
So before we did Science ofTeaching Reading, you know, the
pyramid , where, you know,it's, yes, 80 to 85%, you get
in Tier 1 and then what TierTwo, but ours was always upside
down, where 85% of our kidswere struggling. You know , our
pyramid was the opposite way,no matter what we did. But for
(37:29):
the first time, I'll use oursecond graders that we
currently have, they've had STRfor kindergarten, first, and
second. They've had they're ontheir third year, and we truly
look like the correct trianglewhere we have 10 to 15% of kids
that are still not quite there,that are still struggling, that
(37:50):
are still behind. But themajority of, 85% of our kids
are accessing grade-levelmaterials. And I do wanna say,
woo-hoo, something that'sreally been amazing, we're on
our third year , and for thefirst time in RTI and second,
third, fourth and fifth, areour kids who are being very
successful, are doing novelstudies in RTI.
Susan Lambert (38:14):
Oh, that's great.
Genie Baca (38:15):
Yes. And so, you know, for the first two years
we did skill lessons in RTI,but we finally got kids to
where they are true readers whocan read for meaning and can
enjoy a novel study during RTI,while the other kids were still
working on doing skilledlessons in RTI. And so that's,
(38:36):
that right there , is a big winfor us that we have gotten
there with our kids. And beingable to do that every day in
RTI for a huge number of ourkids yet to do the novel
studies during RTI. So , Ithink thats a big woo-hoo.
Yeah.
Susan Lambert (38:53):
Congratulations.
Genie Baca (38:55):
Thank you.
Susan Lambert (38:55):
Side note, if you hear any, like, thunder or
anything in the background, wehave a huge thunderstorm coming
through right now, so—.
Genie Baca (39:01):
Okay.
Susan Lambert (39:02):
It might get a little noisy. Let's talk about
lessons learned as you lookback. What are some lessons
learned for you?
Genie Baca (39:11):
Well, I , so, one of the things we learned in
Science of Teaching Reading,which , gosh, I don't know why
I didn't know this before. Sowhen kids are hearing their
teacher teach and talk, or theteacher's reading them a read
aloud, what small part of theirbrain is ignited? You know, you
see those little brain scans?
And how much? And so prior, youknow, if you didn't stay on an
(39:36):
AB guided reading book all yearlong, you know, but how much ,
I just think about prior to thethree years we've been on, how
much ignition we were doing ina brain. Like how much access
was that brain turning on? Butwhen you got, when we learned
in the Science of TeachingReading that when they are
(39:57):
talking while they read, likethey're reading texts, how the
whole brain turns on, isamazing! So prior to, what I
would say, before the Scienceof Teaching Reading, we did a
lot talking to our kids. We dida lot of read alouds to our
kids and maybe asked a coupleof questions. And we still, I
(40:18):
mean our , even though we callour knowledge building a read
aloud , it's not the same readaloud we did prior. It is
engaging more. But what I thinkabout what we do in kinder
second semester, first andsecond grade, with our readers,
and the amount of texts thatour kids are reading, and I
think if I could see a brainscan of my second-grade kids
(40:41):
now compared to a brain scan tomy second-grade kids four years
ago, and I think, what adisservice we did to our babies
back then. And now that we knowbetter? And we know more about
the research , and that howspeaking and reading go
together , we're just gettingsmarter. We're just learning
(41:03):
more about how reading works,how the brain works, how kids
acquire knowledge, and we justhave to be smarter, I guess, in
how we do things.
Susan Lambert (41:15):
Hmm . And thoughtful, it sounds like you
really talk about and examineand look at the things that are
happening in the classroom andhow the students are
responding. And I think that'sreally important too. Well, a
couple of things I wanna saythank you for all your
transparency here. I think yousaid a couple times in the
course of this recording, Ican't believe I'm saying this,
it's so embarrassing. But Ithink for that transparency for
(41:35):
others, others have felt thatway, too. I know I have felt
that way, too, on my learningjourney here. So I just wanna
thank you for being transparentabout your own learning
journey. I think that's reallyimportant.
Genie Baca (41:46):
You're welcome .
Susan Lambert (41:47):
So, you know, before we wrap up, do you have
any final thoughts for ourlisteners? Any words of advice
or wisdom?
Genie Baca (41:55):
If you are one of those districts or one of those
schools have who have beenputting off this research, go
for it, is all I can say. Ithas paid off. It's made a
believer of our teachers, ourparents, the teachers,
administrators. You are gonnasee students, a well-rounded
(42:17):
reading student, somebody whocan read, somebody who can
write, somebody who can deeplyhave discourse over what
they're learning , that areexcited about what they're
learning, and they rememberwhat they're learning. Our
third graders exactly rememberwhat they learned in knowledge
building in the lower grades.
And they still can talk deeplyabout everything they've
(42:40):
learned in the prior years. Andso I think that's been a big
difference, is we are doingcurriculum and we're doing the
Science of Teaching Reading iscreating and solidifying
learning and building all thosefoundational skills that we
need in primary. And it's verysystematic. It's done very
thoughtful and it's wellplanned , what we need to do to
(43:03):
get kids to learn how to read.
It's so amazing to go in aclassroom and see them having,
talking about empathy and howthe characters feel and how the
characters change over time.
And you can really get intosome meaty conversations
because they're finally, beforethe reading, the text took all
(43:25):
their cognitive load, you know, it took everything because
they were so far behind inreading and trying to decode
the words and, you know? That'swhere their brain power went.
But now that kids know how toread? And they can spend their
cognitive load on, "Oh my God,I can't believe that happened
in the story!" And "Oh my God,it broke my heart when that
(43:47):
happened." And that's beenamazing to see that kids get to
put their energy on things youwould've wanted them to do all
the time instead of justworking on decoding texts,
that's such a hard struggle for'em . And so I would say go for
it. It is an experience. It'snot too hard, the first couple
(44:07):
of months, you know, it's likefiguring it out. But once you
get figuring it out, it movespretty quick.
Susan Lambert (44:13):
That's amazing.
Well, thank you for sharingyour wisdom, your wise words,
your, you know, strugglethrough the journey . And
congratulations on all yoursuccess you've had there.
Genie Baca (44:23):
Thank you.
Susan Lambert (44:24):
And thank you so much for joining us. We really
appreciate it.
Genie Baca (44:27):
You're welcome. It was nice seeing you.
Susan Lambert (44:31):
Thanks so much for listening to my
conversation with Genie Baca,Principal at Eastridge
Elementary in Amarillo, Texas.
Check out the show notes forlinks to some of the resources
we discussed. Also, join theconversation about this episode
and this series in our Facebookdiscussion group, Science of
Reading (44:51):
The Community. Next time, we're closing out our
miniseries exploring how theScience of Reading serves
multilingual and Englishlearners. To do that, we're
hearing from an amazing youngeducator about how he brings
the Science of Reading to hisbilingual classroom.
Arturo Valadez Saenz (45:08):
Sometimes we are operating in a reactive
way, waiting all the way 'tilthe unit assessment to look at
the standards and identifyingthose trends . However, we have
the power to collect dataduring formative assessments on
a daily basis, just by walkingaround, walking around. Look at
(45:30):
what their students areproducing in the moment.
Susan Lambert (45:32):
That's coming up next time on Science of
Reading (45:34):
The Podcast. Science of Reading
brought to you by Amplify. Formore information on how amplify
leverages the Science ofReading, go to
amplify.com/ckla. Thank you somuch for listening.
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