February 15, 2025 • 44 mins
Arthur Moudakis, Quenton Stroud and myself uncover the enigma of the independent Scientology community's quiet presence. With a flurry of podcasts emerging, why does the community's digital footprint remain so faint? Join us as we challenge perceptions, exploring whether fear or past influences of the orthodox church still linger, stifling the vibrancy of independent practitioners. We navigate the complexities of maintaining the authenticity of original teachings without the corporate church's rigid structure, while pondering the potential for broader engagement through modern digital platforms.
Listeners will gain insights into the untapped world of independent Scientology, where opportunities and challenges go hand in hand. Many remain unaware of alternatives to the mainstream Church of Scientology, and this episode shines a light on the distinct practices that set independent groups apart. We discuss the potential of leveraging podcasts and even TikTok to educate a global audience, overcoming logistical hurdles to modernize the practice for the digital age. Discover how courage and initiative are essential to forge ahead in this unconventional movement.
Imagine a summit where independent Scientology practitioners unite to share success stories and reinforce community bonds. The conversation highlights the necessity of confronting fear and taking initiative to market the movement effectively. We explore how technology, including AI, offers promising avenues to enhance auditing processes and grow a more interconnected community. This episode is a call to action, encouraging active participation to expand the reach of independent Scientology worldwide, fostering a sense of community and shared purpose among its practitioners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right and welcome to another AOGP Scientology
Outside of the Church podcastbrought to you by the Advanced
Org of the Great Plains,ao-gporg and the College of
Independent Scientologycom.
We're here with Arthur Moudakisand Quentin Stroud, and the
(00:22):
title of this is why Aren't theyDoing Anything?
It's an interesting title.
What in the world are wetalking about here?
Well, what we're talking abouthere is we have the independent
Scientology community.
We're at what are we at?
(00:42):
We're at how many podcasts isit now?
It's got to be.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I think it's 136 it's well over 100 now.
139.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I think it's more 140 , maybe one.
This is 140.
So the question is why is it soquiet out there?
Why isn't anybody rearing theirhead?
And you know, I'm sure.
Well, I don't know, I don'tknow how many people that could
(01:14):
be doing something or listeningto our podcast.
We don't have any way tostatusize that, but it's an
interesting concept as to whyindependent Scientology is so
quiet.
You don't see anybody beingovert about things.
(01:35):
The Facebook groups are prettymuch ghost towns.
The websites don't get updated.
There's defunct websites thatare, in some cases, six, eight
years unupdated.
We've lost eight senior techterminals in the last three
years, which is an issue too,obviously, but where is
(02:00):
everybody?
What's your speculation on this?
What can we do about this?
How can we spur people on what?
Why aren't they saying anything?
Why doesn't anybody else have apodcast?
Why?
Why aren't they?
They getting out there andmarketing and things like that,
you know are they afraid ofsomething?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
right what do you guys think?
That anything that is outsideof the orthodoxy which is so
(02:48):
funny that we even say thatbecause Scientology in and of
itself is not orthodox butoutside of the orthodoxy of the
corporate church.
I think that the idea is thatthere still isn't this freedom
to be independent, perhaps right, a freedom to be independent,
perhaps right A freedom to beindependent.
(03:08):
And I think that you know asfor myself, you know I've been
22 years, 20, actually no, goingon 25 years now as a practicing
Scientologist.
You know there's a level offreedom that you attain in
becoming who you choose to be.
And with or without all that,you know, if there's still some
(03:30):
agreement that you know to beunorthodox, to be outside of the
corporate structure, to beoutside of this you know
groupthink is not okay thenthat's going to bleed into
everything one might do, and soI just feel that there's still
some agreement along that linethat you still have to be a part
(03:51):
of the corporate church inorder to function fully.
You know what I mean, and that'sunfortunate because it's not
true.
It's just not true.
I think that LRH made the techavailable to all mankind and it
was then wrapped up and tangledup in whatever bureaucracy or
(04:15):
whatever legalities that neededto be wrapped up into.
But it's not true.
I think it's available tomankind because it is the
knowledge of man, it's theknowledge of mind, it's the
science of mind, it's thescience of who we are as beings,
and I think that that shouldremain independent.
I don't care how you slice it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I said, Mr DeMarinated.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So yeah, artie, I think if we were to say compare
the corporate church withindependent, I think the only
advantage the corporate churchprobably has is the way it
pushes people towards acommunity, but it's not a
(05:00):
healthy kind of community, butit is a push nonetheless.
They're relentless to get youin, to get you as in a group, to
get you going to services,things like that.
And then I think on theindependent side, like quentin
said, you have a lot morefreedom, and I think that
freedom is harder to create acommunity with.
Um, and there's, you know,there's pockets of independent
(05:24):
all over the place, like evenfor us just to meet up now.
We all have to get our timesorted.
We're all different times yourmorning, your afternoon, I'm
evening.
It can be a bit tricky in thatsense without like a physical
log.
But then, as far as the techside of it goes, I think the
(05:47):
thing that makes Scientologyhard is the level of confront
that's required to head towardsit.
And in the independent side, Ithink the individual requires
quite an enormous amount ofconfront to study as well
without having somebody callingthem 24, 7, without having
people hassling them coming inand doing those kinds of things.
(06:10):
And I think that's where itmakes it a bit trickier on the
independent side.
But I do think it's sad thatthere is a lack of community
around the independent approachto scientology.
The independent approach toScientology what are your
thoughts, john.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Well, I mean the speculation.
I mean that's, all you can dois speculate.
How often do I have somebodyelse from the independent
community contact me?
Almost never, very rare, Almostnever, almost never, very rare,
almost never.
And then, and if that's thecase, it's usually somebody
that's working with somebodyelse in the independent
community wanting a lecture or areference or a this.
(06:58):
You know they're, they're,they've been told by whoever
they're working with to havethat person contact me instead
of the person that is deliveringthe service contact me, which I
find really odd in twodifferent ways.
Why isn't the person doing theservices, you know?
(07:18):
Why isn't there any esprit decorps?
Why isn't there any unitybetween people delivering things
?
Usually, you've got a and Idon't mean this in a negative
sense but you've got a rogueauditor, a one-man show, a lone
wolf type of a thing.
We've got three auditors hereand they don't reach out.
(07:44):
There's this individuationthat's going on and there's no
third dynamic, because I wouldsuspect that it's probably.
Well, I don't want you takingmy clients, but I mean then
they're referring their clientsto us anyway for references that
they can't come up with.
So it would lead me to believe,and you guys can correct me if
(08:08):
I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to pat ourselveson the back, but you look at the
lectures that we have out there, the online course room, the
qualifications library that wehave out there.
We have AI on two of ourwebsites that can answer pretty
(08:30):
much any question you have aboutScientology and both of you
have used them and you use themregularly and they're at org
expense.
You're looking at $150 to $180a month just for the AI, because
we have so many people askquestions to the AI and so
people are coming to us, as Imean almost by default as a
(08:54):
central organization in theindependent field, because we're
the only ones doing it.
Why doesn't anybody else wantto put their neck out there?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, I think we see it from two different angles,
right?
So, for example, you being anexecutive director of an
organization that has helpedmany, many people across the
globe, many, many people acrossthe globe, and us being clients
(09:32):
or PCs and working from apractitioner angle.
You know, I think it's a littlebit different.
You know, I look at it and kindof similar to what Art was
saying about like the group,like looking at it from a group
mentality.
You mentioned about not havingnecessarily a third dynamic when
it comes, try to come together.
You know, as a person of color,as a Black man, like I even see
(10:14):
it within the Black communitypeople who are so oppressed that
even when they come together,it is very, very difficult to
have a real third dynamic that'sfunctional and working properly
.
You know what I mean.
I'm here in the Philippines andoftentimes in the Philippines
you'll hear them talk about crabmentality.
(10:34):
Crab mentality how people whohave been literally conquered
and occupied three times by theSpanish, by the Japanese and by
the Americans Three times, andthey still, to this day, talk
about crab mentality, evenwithin the Filipino community.
So I think it's justinteresting to see how, when
(10:58):
people have been oppressed orpeople have been affected so
tremendously by a centralorganization or a central power
to try to get them to bandtogether.
And, to be honest with you,independent Scientology is still
rather new.
You know what I mean.
It's still a young way of beingto think that, wait, I can do
(11:23):
this on my own, I can do thisindependently.
We can do this together and doour own things Like is that okay
?
And then to try to bring ittogether.
I think this is where we are.
We're still growing that and Ido believe that AOGP is at the
forefront and at the center ifyou can do the same both on
forefront and center but it's atthe forefront and the center of
(11:44):
what this is going to be.
Fast forward 50 years from now.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Actually, I think it's interesting something you
said there as well, because whenI started looking into
Scientology I didn't even knowthat there was a free zone or
independent Scientology.
I actually found out by mistake, because every time if you're
interested in Scientology andyou're trying to use the
internet to find information onit, it's very rare to come up
(12:13):
with something that'sindependent.
And I'm pretty sure I waswatching some kind of
documentary that was bashingScientology and somebody had
made a comment to look intoindependent Scientology.
And somebody had made a commentto look into independent
Scientology.
And that's when my world openedup.
Just from a comment in a randomvideo, I had no idea that
(12:35):
independent Scientology was evena thing, because people know
what Scientology is but theydon't know that there's an
independent Scientology.
And even if I explain to people, you know I'm studying
Scientology but I'm doing itindependently, they look at me
funny and it's like isn'tScientology Scientology?
So maybe it's just maybe, likeyou said, maybe it is something
(13:01):
new in such a way it's going totake some time for it to open up
where people can say there's anindependent groups out there
and to really be seen and to beknown.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You know, I think I think the uh, the uh conditions,
for me those are very apple prohere, like just what you just
said art, we got to get out ofnon-E, right, we got to get out
of non-E and let people knowthat there's a way to go up the
bridge, there's a way to studyScientology, there's a way to
(13:35):
use a tech and to do it as acommunity, without necessarily
being attached to corporatestructure attached to corporate
structure?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, but do you think also the difference in
tech between organizations makesa difference as well?
Like, is there much differencein the tech and the way it's
structured?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, Well, I think that that's the biggest problem
is you have a lot of peopleoutside of the church.
I was told once by one of theoldest living, still living
Scientologists 95 years old thata lot of the people that are in
(14:20):
the field have been maligned bythe church and they tend to go
and change the technology andeverything when they start to
decide to put out a shingle andstart delivering services and
stuff like that.
We've seen that many, many,many times where we had to
repair somebody case-wise, wheresomebody went off the
reservation and did their ownthing.
(14:41):
Case-wise, where somebody wentoff the reservation and did
their own thing and there's nowillingness for people to be
corrected because they'vealready been maligned by the
church and they don't want to becorrected and they want to do
their own thing instead of justdoing what the old man says.
And so that creates an opposingcurrent with people because
(15:07):
they don't know what they'regetting as a PC.
They just know they're gettingsomething and that's a scary
part of it is.
Well, are they doing the rightthing?
You would never know becauseyou're not a trained auditor,
and I think that that's one ofthe things that you see is one
of the reasons why you don't seethere isn't anybody anybody out
(15:31):
of eight plus billion peopleout there doing what we're doing
in the way that we're doing itfrom a digital standpoint, from
a communication standpoint, Imean, my personal opinion is
that we're definitely out ofnon-existence.
I mean, you can Google anynumber of things in Scientology
(15:54):
and you come up with ourpodcasts.
They're all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's something that we get more people from the
podcast than we do anything else, and I'm I'm looking at
starting a, a tiktok channeleducating people on independent
scientology and what thedifference is and and how it can
, you know, help their lives,and that that sort of a thing uh
to to get get out ofnon-existence.
(16:24):
My biggest concern is is thatif I do some of the things that
I want to do on there, we mighthave more people than we know
how to handle rapidly with justthree auditors, which would be
build it and they will come.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, a great problem, it's a great problem to
have.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
That's the best problem you can have ever is.
You know what do we do with allthese people and everything?
And you have to have the.
You know you're supposed tohave two administrative
terminals to every tech terminaland we have three auditors and
me doing all the administration.
But you know, theadministration is more easily
handled because all of it isdigitized and it's on.
(17:03):
You know, it's on a web serverand there's code to do courses
and all that stuff pay forcourses.
We have the college wherepeople can.
You know it's sort of like alobby for independent
Scientology and you can.
You can have an app on yourphone and you can get direct
messages from people and theymight be on the other side of
(17:23):
the planet.
But I guess the main thing thatI want to know is why isn't
anybody trying as hard as we are?
What's holding them back?
I mean, I guess the question iswhy doesn't anybody else want
to spend any money?
And that's what it comes downto.
Anybody else want to spend anymoney?
(17:44):
And then that's what it comesdown to.
Why doesn't anybody else wantto spend any money to put
something there, to putScientology into the future?
What's going on?
Why isn't this happening?
I think that's a reallyinteresting question, because
we're spending $600, $700 amonth to have a digital org
that's all over the planet.
Wherever there's a cell signalor a Wi-Fi signal, you can be
(18:09):
doing independent Scientologyand you can be communicating
with other people at a fractionof the cost, but nobody else is
really doing this.
Instead, it's the old-fashionedway they're writing on paper
their sessions, or we do oursessions on an iPad and you can
send these in really quickly asa PDF and you can get get your
(18:30):
session CS, you can listen tolectures, you can do the courses
, you can communicate withpeople, you can.
You know all of this stuff.
We've provided thisinfrastructure, but nobody else
has has done this is.
Is there?
Is it?
Is it a generational thing?
I mean my generation, I, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
that's what I was thinking, you know is it?
Is it the only thing?
More from, yeah, I was thinkingmore from this perspective of,
if you really think about it,people who areined have gone up
the lines, say within thecorporate church.
Then they come around and sayyou know what, I think I want to
(19:09):
do this, you know,independently, I want to do this
outside of the church.
Well, where are they as itrelates to technology?
Where are they as it relates toAI and understanding how to
organize and build something theway you've done it?
(19:29):
I think that is a generationalthing.
I think that if you came upwith LRH and if you came up,
let's say, I found this in 2002.
That's already been almost 23years ago.
You know what?
Let's say I found this in 2002.
That's already been almost 20,that's 23 years ago.
You know what I'm saying?
Somebody who was in it wellbefore me, another, let's say,
(19:52):
10, 20 years before me.
It would have been a wholedifferent ballgame.
You know what I'm saying.
So I just think that I thinkthat it's about know-how.
I think it's also some fearinvolved.
I think there is a bit of youknow, first dynamic focus, like
I got to live.
I got to eat, you know.
I got to pay these bills, I gotto keep a roof over my head.
(20:13):
I think there's some of that aswell, because it's a lot of
work and it does take a risk tobuild a business, to build an
organization, the way um, theway we are doing it, and so,
yeah, I think there's a littlebit of all that well, it's a
matter you know.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's also a matter of confront, too.
What are you, what are youwilling to confront?
How hard is it?
I mean, you know you can haveai build you a website in a
matter of moments and you've gota website out there, you know
at least you know the skeletonof it.
And then you need to populateit with your text and stuff like
that, and you can even do thatin the blink of an eye.
(20:52):
So that's something that youknow.
Maybe they're just not aware ofit, but it's, you know.
The other side of this is thatthe generation when the last the
I don't want to.
There was a big boom in thelate 80s, when I was at Flag
doing my auditor training, butthere was also a big boom in the
(21:15):
70s.
That's when Scientology wasreally really expanding rapidly,
and those people who were intheir 20s and the 70s are now in
their 70s in the 2020s, some ofthem older than that my dad,
for example you know, 77, 76,something like that.
(21:38):
And you know, I mean obviouslyyou don't get as much done the
older you are and yourpriorities change and things
like that.
But you know my generation, Iwas 19 when I got trained as an
auditor.
Where are all the guys?
Where are all the guys that Igot trained with and, and you
know, did they stay in thechurch?
Did they give it up?
Whatever?
(21:59):
I just I just it blows my mindwith the technology we have,
that makes it so easy to do thisstuff and and and populate and
propagate this to other peoplewhere other people would be.
You know, trying to do anonline course room, trying to do
all these different things.
I mean, you know, are we thatunique?
(22:21):
I mean, it took us years to getthe online course room up and
going, but it was pretty muchjust two people and then one
person two people, one persontype of a thing.
And we have this now.
And I'm not saying you have toreinvent the wheel either, but
there needs to be some sort of athird dynamic push and it's so
(22:44):
much easier to have a thirddynamic where, you know, people
can, can meet and and and haveaffiliations with people and
everything, but instead they,they, just, they don't
communicate.
It's just crickets.
I just find that really hard.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Could it be like there's a bit of an explosion of
a lot of self-help modalities,courses, things like that as
well, because I suppose ifsomebody's going to move into
Scientology they're looking atbettering themselves and there's
an abundance of things outthere where people do weekend
(23:25):
courses, where people do there'sjust too many and too numerous
to count.
And look for me as well throughmy journey I did a lot of these
different kinds of things upuntil I discovered Scientology
and actually put an attempttowards it, that I realized I
kind of wasted my time with alot of those quickie courses,
(23:49):
but most people would beinterested in doing something in
a weekend, feeling great for afew days, maybe a week, and then
you know they get off doing,you know they do a weekend
course and then next thing youknow they're holding the course
because they got a certificateafter a two-day course or a
(24:09):
three-day course.
Could it just be sheer laziness?
Nothing more, nothing less.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I tend to want to default into that direction.
It's complexity and confrontingwhat's so complex about it.
What about it are you notconfronting?
I mean, you just don't hearabout that many auditors out
there.
It's all sub rosa, it's quiet,it's secret.
(24:41):
It's like what are you afraidof?
What are you afraid of?
I mean the's secret.
It's like what are you afraidof?
What are you afraid of?
I mean, the church is maybethey're afraid of the church.
Well, that's what's going tosay is, the church has got
enough problems.
They're leaving us aloneentirely now, especially after
they lost a lawsuit.
Um, you know, most of the peoplethat that come to us now are
people that are that love thetechnology but just can't deal
(25:02):
with.
Just in the last 10 days, threedifferent people, four
different people, have been inthe church and they're tired of
being pushed around and chasedout to their car.
You know being pushed to dosomething and all of this stuff,
and so it's.
You know it's a freedom fromand a freedom to sort of a thing
, and so it's.
You know it's a freedom fromand a freedom to sort of a thing
(25:24):
.
And if you're not out there andyou're not saying something
about it, or you know, I mean,look at the body of work that we
have in these 140 podcastswhere people can listen to this
and the things that people saythey're like.
You know, you guys really getwhere I'm coming from.
I mean, we see that all thetime on the YouTube comments and
stuff like that but there'snobody else out there trying to
(25:48):
push this into the future beyondone or two pieces type of a
thing, and that's it.
They're not saying, hey, I'mhere, I get that, there's word
of mouth and that's, that's yourbest form of advertisement, but
, um, I just, I just reallydon't get why there can't be
(26:09):
more of a uh, unification.
I've, for years, I've thoughtabout let's, let's have an
acquaintance, and I've talkedabout it a lot.
Let's, let's have a, um, I'mready.
You know, uh, you call itQuentin, a island.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well, yeah, On the retreat.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Like a retreat.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You have all these people and stuff and you're
pressing the flesh and you'resitting down and you're having
dinner with them and spendingtime and making these
connections, you know, gettingthe ARC and the KRC higher and
all that stuff.
But the thing is, you know,you're looking at the expense of
doing a summit that was theword that I was looking for is
where we have a summit of all ofthese people and say you know,
(26:56):
let's, I mean, you know, ifgovernments can do it, why can't
we do it?
Why can't we get everybodytogether and say here's this,
you know, one time where we canall get to know each other and
we can all start workingtogether, because it's a dying
(27:18):
subject outside of you know,servers wouldn't stay on but a
month or two because there's,there's, there's nothing there.
There's, there's no privateserver where the electricity is
being kept on and and all thatstuff to to keep this thing
pushed forward.
Yeah, the lectures would stayon, probably, you know, in
(27:40):
perpetuity, but there's inperpetuity, but there's nothing,
there's nothing.
I mean, you know, ronsorg, Imean they have a couple of
locations and stuff like that,but they're not overt, they're
not actively being out there andsaying here, this is who we are
, this is what we're about, thisis what we think.
Having all these conversationsand stuff like that, I dare them
, I dare them here this is, thisis who we are, this is what
we're about, this is what wethink.
(28:01):
Having all these conversationsand stuff like that, I dare them
.
I dare them to start a podcastand start reaching out and and
and put independent scientologythere.
And I'm not saying you know,there's no competition.
There's over eight billionpeople on this planet.
There's no shortage of people.
There's over 8 billion peopleon this planet.
(28:21):
There's no shortage ofpre-clears.
Where do people get that ideathat there's a scarcity of
pre-clears?
There isn't.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's just illogical to think that and that we're
competition.
But that's the thing.
I mean, we're not terriblypopular in the independent
Scientology community because weadvertise, we market, we put
stuff on Facebook, we post oursuccess stories.
Nobody is posting successstories on Facebook but us, yeah
(28:53):
, nobody.
I mean that's what you'resupposed to do.
Is you're supposed to say, hey,I'm here, and if you're afraid
of the church, why are youafraid of the church there here?
And if you're afraid of thechurch, why are you afraid of
the church?
There's no reason to be afraidof the church, right, you know?
So I just, I just wanted to tochat about this and get and get
(29:13):
people.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, I like, I like how you said that.
Well I can.
You said that that the churchhas, you know, bigger fish to
fry than people who are actuallytrying to go in session.
Like it's like anybody tryingto stop you from going in
session.
Yeah, like you know, like noit's it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There's no, there's no stop here.
It's just a matter of you knowwhy?
Why aren't people?
Why aren't auditors?
Why aren't they trying harder?
Why did, why did they natterabout us and say, well, you know
, it was good, glitzyadvertising and all this stuff
and it's like, well, you can dothat too.
That's what you're supposed todo is there's a marketing series
(29:53):
and policy letters, you knowall this stuff and it and it
never goes any further than justthis one guy.
I'm not saying it's easy, butit's something that needs to be
done, and the only way it'sgoing to get done is somebody
says, okay, well, I'm going tospend some money every month to
(30:13):
pay for a server, I'm going tospend some money every month to
do this.
Why do we have to be the only?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
one.
I think it's just fear, I thinkit just comes back to fear.
Nothing more, nothing less, Imean there's a lot of horror
stories out there.
Yeah, there's a lot of horrorstories out there of things that
have happened to peoplestepping out of the church.
Maybe a lot of people don'twant to become one of them, and
(30:40):
maybe it's really that simpleJust fear.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing about the passion ofthe tech, nothing about being a
qualified auditor or anythinglike that.
Maybe it's simply just fear.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what else can it be?
And where is fear on the tonescale?
Pretty low, yeah, very low, andit it, it's, it, there's.
You know there's nothing tofear you.
Just you need to get out thereand you need to tell people hey
(31:20):
look, this is what this can do,this is how it can be successful
.
You can have this too, type ofa thing.
I'm trying really hard to thinkabout different ways to make
people aware of independentScientology.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
To make it easier, maybe it's two things Maybe to
really make it happen.
Maybe it's two things Maybe.
To really make it happen itrequires confront and grit and
what is grit?
Just that extra oomph, just abit of you know.
(32:00):
I'm going to do this no matterwhat Kind of like you have.
I'm going to do this no matterwhat comes at me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Why is that so rare, I wonder?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You know what you said earlier.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, go ahead,art.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, you're not good .
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think what you said earlier about freedom from and
freedom to and I started theconversation at the beginning of
the podcast talking about youknow we're so free, you know,
and yet there's still thisagreement that exists that you
know we're so free, you know,and yet there's still this
agreement that exists that youknow you're not supposed to do
something or you're not supposedto be something or whatever.
I think it's freedom from, sowe get free from whatever
(32:44):
confines that might exist andthen, therefore, we're free to
right, to be, to become, toexpress, to form our own groups
to, you know, whatever, whatever, like.
These things exist, and it's socrazy because it's already
woven into the fabrics of theScientology technology, it's
already woven into what LRHcreated.
(33:05):
It was always that way, it'salways been, and so I think it
is fear, and you asked thequestion why is that so rare?
This grit, this?
I'm about to do this because Iwant to do it.
It's a thing that people do notpossess readily in most of
(33:26):
society, most of the world, andso it's time for us to kind of,
I think, push the envelope alittle bit, even as those within
ALGP, even those within ourFacebook groups, even those
within our social mediaplatforms ourselves, even those
within this podcast If you'relistening to it right now like
it's time to do something aboutit call.
(33:48):
This is a call to those who,like, really want to go up the
bridge, really want to be free,really want to do something
tremendous with their lives.
This is the way to do it, andso we're starting that call now.
I think that having the summitour first, you know, independent
Scientology summit, or thisannual summit, or whatever we're
going to start I think that's areally, really good way to
(34:10):
start it and just put the callout, you know, and give people
enough time to get okay with it.
It's all right, we're going tocome together, we're going to
have a little picnic, a littlepowwow.
You know we're going to breakbread, it's okay, ain't nobody
going to hurt you?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, because there aren't that many of us, there
aren't that many of us, therearen't that many of us, and it's
I mean, you know we're doingeverything we can to get more
public in and everything.
We're working on a Book One appto be audited by AI that'll be
out in the next few months.
You know, that's tremendous,Tremendous that that sort of
(34:55):
thing can happen and it works.
And this is going to providepre-clears for a lot of people
and you know, we may even have apre-clear pool where we have
more pre-clears than we have.
Auditors People said well, Ilove that Dianetics stuff, but
you know, you got anythingstronger.
Yeah, we got a hundred proof.
(35:16):
Yeah, Metered Dianetics,metered Scientology and all this
stuff, you know, and I meanthat's the direction this is
headed.
Yeah, I need to.
I, you know, I want to.
I want to be even more keyedout, I want to be even even more
more, more.
I want to be even more reactive,mind erased and stuff like that
.
I mean this is the directionthat this is heading and you
(35:39):
know, I mean it's just there'sno central point on everything
other than what we have.
But, you know, getting peopleto be engaged in, you know
staying communicative, gettingexcited about things, and not
(36:01):
just on the first dynamic whileI got up the bridge.
Well, you won't stay up thebridge very long if you don't
have a third dynamic and afourth dynamic that's doing this
.
So you know, I just wanted toask this question.
I thought it would be a goodfood for thought thing for
people to ask themselves youknow, hey, what could I be doing
(36:21):
?
How could I increase theinfrastructure of independent
Scientology?
and everything like that so.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, exactly, this is a very, very good
conversation and I think it'ssomething that needs to be had
right now because, you know,we're in 2025.
We're at the advent of AIrevolution.
Like there's no reason whypeople should still be, you know
, in the dark ages.
There's no reason why peopleshould still be in the paper age
(36:54):
.
We're called the paper age.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, and that's that's kind of what it is.
I mean, you know, the, the, thedigital age is, is where we're
at and this opens the, the, theboundaries tremendously for
people to to get.
I mean, you know, you candeliver a communications course
to 100 people, you can dolectures to 100 people, 200
(37:18):
people, really simple, about thetone scale and things like that
.
That's how my dad got inScientology at a community
college was about the tone scale, giving out free tickets and
stuff like that, and you know,you can FS them to us.
You can, you know, haveauditors.
I mean, there's just so manythings.
It's just a matter of do youwant to?
(37:39):
Do you want to put it there forother people?
Because if it isn't there forother people, it won't be there
for you.
If that's the case, so it's nota make-wrong, it's just.
You know, we could really usemore independent Scientologists
working together shoulder toshoulder and not just being
individuals.
(37:59):
You know, the individuation isthe primary thing and having the
willingness to put somethingthere.
So food for thought foreverybody.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
That's fantastic yeah .
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So are we hiring.
Yeah, we're always hiring.
We can have auditors across theplanet.
Right now we've got the threeauditors that we have here,
we've got Arthur working on hisPro TRS course, we've got one in
India.
So we're trying to havedifferent time zones for
(38:32):
different auditors so that wehave auditors in every time zone
on the planet with anypopulation you know, not
counting for oceans and stuff.
But yeah, I mean that's whatneeds to happen, is there needs
to be a proliferation, a unionof people who are willing to
(38:55):
change life for the better allacross the planet and be in
communication with each otherand make it as fun as possible,
because it's a really fun game.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's a really fun game.
Yeah, is there a possibility ofhaving a podcast on FSMing?
Maybe there needs to be an FSMpodcast to show people.
How do you introduce thistechnology to people in a way
(39:26):
that helps them and listen?
I know my friends and I knowpeople who need some help.
I know people who are a littletouched, you know, touched by an
angel.
You know what I'm saying andmight need a little support.
You know what I'm saying.
On the mental health side orwhatever, might need a life
repair, might need, you know,just do some book one die next
(39:49):
to relieve some trauma and somePTSD and some stuff they got
going on.
There's a lot of people that wejust know in general.
You know what I'm saying.
You could walk around thestreet and you could see
somebody who is, you know, stuckin an incident or who is so low
tone they can barely lift theirhead up.
You know these things are real.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, yeah, no-transcript here.
(40:42):
They are something like that.
I mean it could happen with theadvent of ai, with with you
know getting out there on tiktokand you know presenting it
properly, and people needing,needing solutions beyond
everybody's a narcissist.
You know these, these, theseconcepts that are, you know it's
(41:03):
where it's you're pointing thefinger at.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
You know there's there's like Tik TOK.
Yeah, I mean it's and, and, and, that's, that's.
You go on TikTok.
Everybody is a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, I mean it's and that's.
You know it's bad news sells.
Well, you know what?
Not everybody can be asuppressive.
Not everybody can be asuppressive and there isn't as
much suppression out there aspeople think.
It's just you know, you needsome auditing to look at things
(41:32):
and go okay, here it is, this iswhat's really happening and
there, you know, there is asolution to it, there is an
answer to it.
You can be happy and you canflourish and prosper and there's
a big market out there ofpeople that need help.
So I hope everybody enjoyedthis podcast.
I thank Arthur and Quentin forbeing here.
Quentin's a man about townright now.
(41:55):
I made time to do this.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
And.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I thank both of you for being here.
There's Quentin walking aroundtown.
Where are you at Quentin?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I am in Metro Manila, philippines.
Okay With the skyscrapers, andinfrastructure is very nice.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, and the sun's getting ready to set this
evening.
So thanks for being here, youguys, and give this some thought
to our listeners and how youcould not only benefit from it
from a financial standpoint, butfrom a helping other people,
which will help you financiallyas well, when you open that flow
of getting things going in yourarea and not being afraid.
(42:37):
There's nothing to be afraid ofNothing.
So take care, everybody, andwe'll see you on Monday for
another podcast, namaste, and welove you, thank you.
Thanks for watching.
All right and welcome to another AOGP Scientology
Outside of the Church podcastbrought to you by the Advanced
Org of the Great Plains,ao-gporg and the College of
Independent Scientologycom.
We're here with Arthur Moudakisand Quentin Stroud, and the
(00:22):
title of this is why Aren't theyDoing Anything?
It's an interesting title.
What in the world are wetalking about here?
Well, what we're talking abouthere is we have the independent
Scientology community.
We're at what are we at?
(00:42):
We're at how many podcasts isit now?
It's got to be.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I think it's 136 it's well over 100 now.
139.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I think it's more 140 , maybe one.
This is 140.
So the question is why is it soquiet out there?
Why isn't anybody rearing theirhead?
And you know, I'm sure.
Well, I don't know, I don'tknow how many people that could
(01:14):
be doing something or listeningto our podcast.
We don't have any way tostatusize that, but it's an
interesting concept as to whyindependent Scientology is so
quiet.
You don't see anybody beingovert about things.
(01:35):
The Facebook groups are prettymuch ghost towns.
The websites don't get updated.
There's defunct websites thatare, in some cases, six, eight
years unupdated.
We've lost eight senior techterminals in the last three
years, which is an issue too,obviously, but where is
(02:00):
everybody?
What's your speculation on this?
What can we do about this?
How can we spur people on what?
Why aren't they saying anything?
Why doesn't anybody else have apodcast?
Why?
Why aren't they?
They getting out there andmarketing and things like that,
you know are they afraid ofsomething?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
right what do you guys think?
That anything that is outsideof the orthodoxy which is so
(02:48):
funny that we even say thatbecause Scientology in and of
itself is not orthodox butoutside of the orthodoxy of the
corporate church.
I think that the idea is thatthere still isn't this freedom
to be independent, perhaps right, a freedom to be independent,
perhaps right A freedom to beindependent.
(03:08):
And I think that you know asfor myself, you know I've been
22 years, 20, actually no, goingon 25 years now as a practicing
Scientologist.
You know there's a level offreedom that you attain in
becoming who you choose to be.
And with or without all that,you know, if there's still some
(03:30):
agreement that you know to beunorthodox, to be outside of the
corporate structure, to beoutside of this you know
groupthink is not okay thenthat's going to bleed into
everything one might do, and soI just feel that there's still
some agreement along that linethat you still have to be a part
(03:51):
of the corporate church inorder to function fully.
You know what I mean, and that'sunfortunate because it's not
true.
It's just not true.
I think that LRH made the techavailable to all mankind and it
was then wrapped up and tangledup in whatever bureaucracy or
(04:15):
whatever legalities that neededto be wrapped up into.
But it's not true.
I think it's available tomankind because it is the
knowledge of man, it's theknowledge of mind, it's the
science of mind, it's thescience of who we are as beings,
and I think that that shouldremain independent.
I don't care how you slice it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I said, Mr DeMarinated.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So yeah, artie, I think if we were to say compare
the corporate church withindependent, I think the only
advantage the corporate churchprobably has is the way it
pushes people towards acommunity, but it's not a
(05:00):
healthy kind of community, butit is a push nonetheless.
They're relentless to get youin, to get you as in a group, to
get you going to services,things like that.
And then I think on theindependent side, like quentin
said, you have a lot morefreedom, and I think that
freedom is harder to create acommunity with.
Um, and there's, you know,there's pockets of independent
(05:24):
all over the place, like evenfor us just to meet up now.
We all have to get our timesorted.
We're all different times yourmorning, your afternoon, I'm
evening.
It can be a bit tricky in thatsense without like a physical
log.
But then, as far as the techside of it goes, I think the
(05:47):
thing that makes Scientologyhard is the level of confront
that's required to head towardsit.
And in the independent side, Ithink the individual requires
quite an enormous amount ofconfront to study as well
without having somebody callingthem 24, 7, without having
people hassling them coming inand doing those kinds of things.
(06:10):
And I think that's where itmakes it a bit trickier on the
independent side.
But I do think it's sad thatthere is a lack of community
around the independent approachto scientology.
The independent approach toScientology what are your
thoughts, john.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Well, I mean the speculation.
I mean that's, all you can dois speculate.
How often do I have somebodyelse from the independent
community contact me?
Almost never, very rare, Almostnever, almost never, very rare,
almost never.
And then, and if that's thecase, it's usually somebody
that's working with somebodyelse in the independent
community wanting a lecture or areference or a this.
(06:58):
You know they're, they're,they've been told by whoever
they're working with to havethat person contact me instead
of the person that is deliveringthe service contact me, which I
find really odd in twodifferent ways.
Why isn't the person doing theservices, you know?
(07:18):
Why isn't there any esprit decorps?
Why isn't there any unitybetween people delivering things
?
Usually, you've got a and Idon't mean this in a negative
sense but you've got a rogueauditor, a one-man show, a lone
wolf type of a thing.
We've got three auditors hereand they don't reach out.
(07:44):
There's this individuationthat's going on and there's no
third dynamic, because I wouldsuspect that it's probably.
Well, I don't want you takingmy clients, but I mean then
they're referring their clientsto us anyway for references that
they can't come up with.
So it would lead me to believe,and you guys can correct me if
(08:08):
I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to pat ourselveson the back, but you look at the
lectures that we have out there, the online course room, the
qualifications library that wehave out there.
We have AI on two of ourwebsites that can answer pretty
(08:30):
much any question you have aboutScientology and both of you
have used them and you use themregularly and they're at org
expense.
You're looking at $150 to $180a month just for the AI, because
we have so many people askquestions to the AI and so
people are coming to us, as Imean almost by default as a
(08:54):
central organization in theindependent field, because we're
the only ones doing it.
Why doesn't anybody else wantto put their neck out there?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, I think we see it from two different angles,
right?
So, for example, you being anexecutive director of an
organization that has helpedmany, many people across the
globe, many, many people acrossthe globe, and us being clients
(09:32):
or PCs and working from apractitioner angle.
You know, I think it's a littlebit different.
You know, I look at it and kindof similar to what Art was
saying about like the group,like looking at it from a group
mentality.
You mentioned about not havingnecessarily a third dynamic when
it comes, try to come together.
You know, as a person of color,as a Black man, like I even see
(10:14):
it within the Black communitypeople who are so oppressed that
even when they come together,it is very, very difficult to
have a real third dynamic that'sfunctional and working properly
.
You know what I mean.
I'm here in the Philippines andoftentimes in the Philippines
you'll hear them talk about crabmentality.
(10:34):
Crab mentality how people whohave been literally conquered
and occupied three times by theSpanish, by the Japanese and by
the Americans Three times, andthey still, to this day, talk
about crab mentality, evenwithin the Filipino community.
So I think it's justinteresting to see how, when
(10:58):
people have been oppressed orpeople have been affected so
tremendously by a centralorganization or a central power
to try to get them to bandtogether.
And, to be honest with you,independent Scientology is still
rather new.
You know what I mean.
It's still a young way of beingto think that, wait, I can do
(11:23):
this on my own, I can do thisindependently.
We can do this together and doour own things Like is that okay
?
And then to try to bring ittogether.
I think this is where we are.
We're still growing that and Ido believe that AOGP is at the
forefront and at the center ifyou can do the same both on
forefront and center but it's atthe forefront and the center of
(11:44):
what this is going to be.
Fast forward 50 years from now.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Actually, I think it's interesting something you
said there as well, because whenI started looking into
Scientology I didn't even knowthat there was a free zone or
independent Scientology.
I actually found out by mistake, because every time if you're
interested in Scientology andyou're trying to use the
internet to find information onit, it's very rare to come up
(12:13):
with something that'sindependent.
And I'm pretty sure I waswatching some kind of
documentary that was bashingScientology and somebody had
made a comment to look intoindependent Scientology.
And somebody had made a commentto look into independent
Scientology.
And that's when my world openedup.
Just from a comment in a randomvideo, I had no idea that
(12:35):
independent Scientology was evena thing, because people know
what Scientology is but theydon't know that there's an
independent Scientology.
And even if I explain to people, you know I'm studying
Scientology but I'm doing itindependently, they look at me
funny and it's like isn'tScientology Scientology?
So maybe it's just maybe, likeyou said, maybe it is something
(13:01):
new in such a way it's going totake some time for it to open up
where people can say there's anindependent groups out there
and to really be seen and to beknown.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You know, I think I think the uh, the uh conditions,
for me those are very apple prohere, like just what you just
said art, we got to get out ofnon-E, right, we got to get out
of non-E and let people knowthat there's a way to go up the
bridge, there's a way to studyScientology, there's a way to
(13:35):
use a tech and to do it as acommunity, without necessarily
being attached to corporatestructure attached to corporate
structure?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, but do you think also the difference in
tech between organizations makesa difference as well?
Like, is there much differencein the tech and the way it's
structured?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, Well, I think that that's the biggest problem
is you have a lot of peopleoutside of the church.
I was told once by one of theoldest living, still living
Scientologists 95 years old thata lot of the people that are in
(14:20):
the field have been maligned bythe church and they tend to go
and change the technology andeverything when they start to
decide to put out a shingle andstart delivering services and
stuff like that.
We've seen that many, many,many times where we had to
repair somebody case-wise, wheresomebody went off the
reservation and did their ownthing.
(14:41):
Case-wise, where somebody wentoff the reservation and did
their own thing and there's nowillingness for people to be
corrected because they'vealready been maligned by the
church and they don't want to becorrected and they want to do
their own thing instead of justdoing what the old man says.
And so that creates an opposingcurrent with people because
(15:07):
they don't know what they'regetting as a PC.
They just know they're gettingsomething and that's a scary
part of it is.
Well, are they doing the rightthing?
You would never know becauseyou're not a trained auditor,
and I think that that's one ofthe things that you see is one
of the reasons why you don't seethere isn't anybody anybody out
(15:31):
of eight plus billion peopleout there doing what we're doing
in the way that we're doing itfrom a digital standpoint, from
a communication standpoint, Imean, my personal opinion is
that we're definitely out ofnon-existence.
I mean, you can Google anynumber of things in Scientology
(15:54):
and you come up with ourpodcasts.
They're all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's something that we get more people from the
podcast than we do anything else, and I'm I'm looking at
starting a, a tiktok channeleducating people on independent
scientology and what thedifference is and and how it can
, you know, help their lives,and that that sort of a thing uh
to to get get out ofnon-existence.
(16:24):
My biggest concern is is thatif I do some of the things that
I want to do on there, we mighthave more people than we know
how to handle rapidly with justthree auditors, which would be
build it and they will come.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, a great problem, it's a great problem to
have.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
That's the best problem you can have ever is.
You know what do we do with allthese people and everything?
And you have to have the.
You know you're supposed tohave two administrative
terminals to every tech terminaland we have three auditors and
me doing all the administration.
But you know, theadministration is more easily
handled because all of it isdigitized and it's on.
(17:03):
You know, it's on a web serverand there's code to do courses
and all that stuff pay forcourses.
We have the college wherepeople can.
You know it's sort of like alobby for independent
Scientology and you can.
You can have an app on yourphone and you can get direct
messages from people and theymight be on the other side of
(17:23):
the planet.
But I guess the main thing thatI want to know is why isn't
anybody trying as hard as we are?
What's holding them back?
I mean, I guess the question iswhy doesn't anybody else want
to spend any money?
And that's what it comes downto.
Anybody else want to spend anymoney?
(17:44):
And then that's what it comesdown to.
Why doesn't anybody else wantto spend any money to put
something there, to putScientology into the future?
What's going on?
Why isn't this happening?
I think that's a reallyinteresting question, because
we're spending $600, $700 amonth to have a digital org
that's all over the planet.
Wherever there's a cell signalor a Wi-Fi signal, you can be
(18:09):
doing independent Scientologyand you can be communicating
with other people at a fractionof the cost, but nobody else is
really doing this.
Instead, it's the old-fashionedway they're writing on paper
their sessions, or we do oursessions on an iPad and you can
send these in really quickly asa PDF and you can get get your
(18:30):
session CS, you can listen tolectures, you can do the courses
, you can communicate withpeople, you can.
You know all of this stuff.
We've provided thisinfrastructure, but nobody else
has has done this is.
Is there?
Is it?
Is it a generational thing?
I mean my generation, I, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
that's what I was thinking, you know is it?
Is it the only thing?
More from, yeah, I was thinkingmore from this perspective of,
if you really think about it,people who areined have gone up
the lines, say within thecorporate church.
Then they come around and sayyou know what, I think I want to
(19:09):
do this, you know,independently, I want to do this
outside of the church.
Well, where are they as itrelates to technology?
Where are they as it relates toAI and understanding how to
organize and build something theway you've done it?
(19:29):
I think that is a generationalthing.
I think that if you came upwith LRH and if you came up,
let's say, I found this in 2002.
That's already been almost 23years ago.
You know what?
Let's say I found this in 2002.
That's already been almost 20,that's 23 years ago.
You know what I'm saying?
Somebody who was in it wellbefore me, another, let's say,
(19:52):
10, 20 years before me.
It would have been a wholedifferent ballgame.
You know what I'm saying.
So I just think that I thinkthat it's about know-how.
I think it's also some fearinvolved.
I think there is a bit of youknow, first dynamic focus, like
I got to live.
I got to eat, you know.
I got to pay these bills, I gotto keep a roof over my head.
(20:13):
I think there's some of that aswell, because it's a lot of
work and it does take a risk tobuild a business, to build an
organization, the way um, theway we are doing it, and so,
yeah, I think there's a littlebit of all that well, it's a
matter you know.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's also a matter of confront, too.
What are you, what are youwilling to confront?
How hard is it?
I mean, you know you can haveai build you a website in a
matter of moments and you've gota website out there, you know
at least you know the skeletonof it.
And then you need to populateit with your text and stuff like
that, and you can even do thatin the blink of an eye.
(20:52):
So that's something that youknow.
Maybe they're just not aware ofit, but it's, you know.
The other side of this is thatthe generation when the last the
I don't want to.
There was a big boom in thelate 80s, when I was at Flag
doing my auditor training, butthere was also a big boom in the
(21:15):
70s.
That's when Scientology wasreally really expanding rapidly,
and those people who were intheir 20s and the 70s are now in
their 70s in the 2020s, some ofthem older than that my dad,
for example you know, 77, 76,something like that.
(21:38):
And you know, I mean obviouslyyou don't get as much done the
older you are and yourpriorities change and things
like that.
But you know my generation, Iwas 19 when I got trained as an
auditor.
Where are all the guys?
Where are all the guys that Igot trained with and, and you
know, did they stay in thechurch?
Did they give it up?
Whatever?
(21:59):
I just I just it blows my mindwith the technology we have,
that makes it so easy to do thisstuff and and and populate and
propagate this to other peoplewhere other people would be.
You know, trying to do anonline course room, trying to do
all these different things.
I mean, you know, are we thatunique?
(22:21):
I mean, it took us years to getthe online course room up and
going, but it was pretty muchjust two people and then one
person two people, one persontype of a thing.
And we have this now.
And I'm not saying you have toreinvent the wheel either, but
there needs to be some sort of athird dynamic push and it's so
(22:44):
much easier to have a thirddynamic where, you know, people
can, can meet and and and haveaffiliations with people and
everything, but instead they,they, just, they don't
communicate.
It's just crickets.
I just find that really hard.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Could it be like there's a bit of an explosion of
a lot of self-help modalities,courses, things like that as
well, because I suppose ifsomebody's going to move into
Scientology they're looking atbettering themselves and there's
an abundance of things outthere where people do weekend
(23:25):
courses, where people do there'sjust too many and too numerous
to count.
And look for me as well throughmy journey I did a lot of these
different kinds of things upuntil I discovered Scientology
and actually put an attempttowards it, that I realized I
kind of wasted my time with alot of those quickie courses,
(23:49):
but most people would beinterested in doing something in
a weekend, feeling great for afew days, maybe a week, and then
you know they get off doing,you know they do a weekend
course and then next thing youknow they're holding the course
because they got a certificateafter a two-day course or a
(24:09):
three-day course.
Could it just be sheer laziness?
Nothing more, nothing less.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I tend to want to default into that direction.
It's complexity and confrontingwhat's so complex about it.
What about it are you notconfronting?
I mean, you just don't hearabout that many auditors out
there.
It's all sub rosa, it's quiet,it's secret.
(24:41):
It's like what are you afraidof?
What are you afraid of?
I mean the's secret.
It's like what are you afraidof?
What are you afraid of?
I mean, the church is maybethey're afraid of the church.
Well, that's what's going tosay is, the church has got
enough problems.
They're leaving us aloneentirely now, especially after
they lost a lawsuit.
Um, you know, most of the peoplethat that come to us now are
people that are that love thetechnology but just can't deal
(25:02):
with.
Just in the last 10 days, threedifferent people, four
different people, have been inthe church and they're tired of
being pushed around and chasedout to their car.
You know being pushed to dosomething and all of this stuff,
and so it's.
You know it's a freedom fromand a freedom to sort of a thing
, and so it's.
You know it's a freedom fromand a freedom to sort of a thing
(25:24):
.
And if you're not out there andyou're not saying something
about it, or you know, I mean,look at the body of work that we
have in these 140 podcastswhere people can listen to this
and the things that people saythey're like.
You know, you guys really getwhere I'm coming from.
I mean, we see that all thetime on the YouTube comments and
stuff like that but there'snobody else out there trying to
(25:48):
push this into the future beyondone or two pieces type of a
thing, and that's it.
They're not saying, hey, I'mhere, I get that, there's word
of mouth and that's, that's yourbest form of advertisement, but
, um, I just, I just reallydon't get why there can't be
(26:09):
more of a uh, unification.
I've, for years, I've thoughtabout let's, let's have an
acquaintance, and I've talkedabout it a lot.
Let's, let's have a, um, I'mready.
You know, uh, you call itQuentin, a island.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well, yeah, On the retreat.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Like a retreat.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You have all these people and stuff and you're
pressing the flesh and you'resitting down and you're having
dinner with them and spendingtime and making these
connections, you know, gettingthe ARC and the KRC higher and
all that stuff.
But the thing is, you know,you're looking at the expense of
doing a summit that was theword that I was looking for is
where we have a summit of all ofthese people and say you know,
(26:56):
let's, I mean, you know, ifgovernments can do it, why can't
we do it?
Why can't we get everybodytogether and say here's this,
you know, one time where we canall get to know each other and
we can all start workingtogether, because it's a dying
(27:18):
subject outside of you know,servers wouldn't stay on but a
month or two because there's,there's, there's nothing there.
There's, there's no privateserver where the electricity is
being kept on and and all thatstuff to to keep this thing
pushed forward.
Yeah, the lectures would stayon, probably, you know, in
(27:40):
perpetuity, but there's inperpetuity, but there's nothing,
there's nothing.
I mean, you know, ronsorg, Imean they have a couple of
locations and stuff like that,but they're not overt, they're
not actively being out there andsaying here, this is who we are
, this is what we're about, thisis what we think.
Having all these conversationsand stuff like that, I dare them
, I dare them here this is, thisis who we are, this is what
we're about, this is what wethink.
(28:01):
Having all these conversationsand stuff like that, I dare them
.
I dare them to start a podcastand start reaching out and and
and put independent scientologythere.
And I'm not saying you know,there's no competition.
There's over eight billionpeople on this planet.
There's no shortage of people.
There's over 8 billion peopleon this planet.
(28:21):
There's no shortage ofpre-clears.
Where do people get that ideathat there's a scarcity of
pre-clears?
There isn't.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's just illogical to think that and that we're
competition.
But that's the thing.
I mean, we're not terriblypopular in the independent
Scientology community because weadvertise, we market, we put
stuff on Facebook, we post oursuccess stories.
Nobody is posting successstories on Facebook but us, yeah
(28:53):
, nobody.
I mean that's what you'resupposed to do.
Is you're supposed to say, hey,I'm here, and if you're afraid
of the church, why are youafraid of the church there here?
And if you're afraid of thechurch, why are you afraid of
the church?
There's no reason to be afraidof the church, right, you know?
So I just, I just wanted to tochat about this and get and get
(29:13):
people.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, I like, I like how you said that.
Well I can.
You said that that the churchhas, you know, bigger fish to
fry than people who are actuallytrying to go in session.
Like it's like anybody tryingto stop you from going in
session.
Yeah, like you know, like noit's it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There's no, there's no stop here.
It's just a matter of you knowwhy?
Why aren't people?
Why aren't auditors?
Why aren't they trying harder?
Why did, why did they natterabout us and say, well, you know
, it was good, glitzyadvertising and all this stuff
and it's like, well, you can dothat too.
That's what you're supposed todo is there's a marketing series
(29:53):
and policy letters, you knowall this stuff and it and it
never goes any further than justthis one guy.
I'm not saying it's easy, butit's something that needs to be
done, and the only way it'sgoing to get done is somebody
says, okay, well, I'm going tospend some money every month to
(30:13):
pay for a server, I'm going tospend some money every month to
do this.
Why do we have to be the only?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
one.
I think it's just fear, I thinkit just comes back to fear.
Nothing more, nothing less, Imean there's a lot of horror
stories out there.
Yeah, there's a lot of horrorstories out there of things that
have happened to peoplestepping out of the church.
Maybe a lot of people don'twant to become one of them, and
(30:40):
maybe it's really that simpleJust fear.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing about the passion ofthe tech, nothing about being a
qualified auditor or anythinglike that.
Maybe it's simply just fear.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what else can it be?
And where is fear on the tonescale?
Pretty low, yeah, very low, andit it, it's, it, there's.
You know there's nothing tofear you.
Just you need to get out thereand you need to tell people hey
(31:20):
look, this is what this can do,this is how it can be successful
.
You can have this too, type ofa thing.
I'm trying really hard to thinkabout different ways to make
people aware of independentScientology.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
To make it easier, maybe it's two things Maybe to
really make it happen.
Maybe it's two things Maybe.
To really make it happen itrequires confront and grit and
what is grit?
Just that extra oomph, just abit of you know.
(32:00):
I'm going to do this no matterwhat Kind of like you have.
I'm going to do this no matterwhat comes at me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Why is that so rare, I wonder?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You know what you said earlier.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, go ahead,art.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, you're not good .
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think what you said earlier about freedom from and
freedom to and I started theconversation at the beginning of
the podcast talking about youknow we're so free, you know,
and yet there's still thisagreement that exists that you
know we're so free, you know,and yet there's still this
agreement that exists that youknow you're not supposed to do
something or you're not supposedto be something or whatever.
I think it's freedom from, sowe get free from whatever
(32:44):
confines that might exist andthen, therefore, we're free to
right, to be, to become, toexpress, to form our own groups
to, you know, whatever, whatever, like.
These things exist, and it's socrazy because it's already
woven into the fabrics of theScientology technology, it's
already woven into what LRHcreated.
(33:05):
It was always that way, it'salways been, and so I think it
is fear, and you asked thequestion why is that so rare?
This grit, this?
I'm about to do this because Iwant to do it.
It's a thing that people do notpossess readily in most of
(33:26):
society, most of the world, andso it's time for us to kind of,
I think, push the envelope alittle bit, even as those within
ALGP, even those within ourFacebook groups, even those
within our social mediaplatforms ourselves, even those
within this podcast If you'relistening to it right now like
it's time to do something aboutit call.
(33:48):
This is a call to those who,like, really want to go up the
bridge, really want to be free,really want to do something
tremendous with their lives.
This is the way to do it, andso we're starting that call now.
I think that having the summitour first, you know, independent
Scientology summit, or thisannual summit, or whatever we're
going to start I think that's areally, really good way to
(34:10):
start it and just put the callout, you know, and give people
enough time to get okay with it.
It's all right, we're going tocome together, we're going to
have a little picnic, a littlepowwow.
You know we're going to breakbread, it's okay, ain't nobody
going to hurt you?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, because there aren't that many of us, there
aren't that many of us, therearen't that many of us, and it's
I mean, you know we're doingeverything we can to get more
public in and everything.
We're working on a Book One appto be audited by AI that'll be
out in the next few months.
You know, that's tremendous,Tremendous that that sort of
(34:55):
thing can happen and it works.
And this is going to providepre-clears for a lot of people
and you know, we may even have apre-clear pool where we have
more pre-clears than we have.
Auditors People said well, Ilove that Dianetics stuff, but
you know, you got anythingstronger.
Yeah, we got a hundred proof.
(35:16):
Yeah, Metered Dianetics,metered Scientology and all this
stuff, you know, and I meanthat's the direction this is
headed.
Yeah, I need to.
I, you know, I want to.
I want to be even more keyedout, I want to be even even more
more, more.
I want to be even more reactive,mind erased and stuff like that
.
I mean this is the directionthat this is heading and you
(35:39):
know, I mean it's just there'sno central point on everything
other than what we have.
But, you know, getting peopleto be engaged in, you know
staying communicative, gettingexcited about things, and not
(36:01):
just on the first dynamic whileI got up the bridge.
Well, you won't stay up thebridge very long if you don't
have a third dynamic and afourth dynamic that's doing this
.
So you know, I just wanted toask this question.
I thought it would be a goodfood for thought thing for
people to ask themselves youknow, hey, what could I be doing
(36:21):
?
How could I increase theinfrastructure of independent
Scientology?
and everything like that so.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, exactly, this is a very, very good
conversation and I think it'ssomething that needs to be had
right now because, you know,we're in 2025.
We're at the advent of AIrevolution.
Like there's no reason whypeople should still be, you know
, in the dark ages.
There's no reason why peopleshould still be in the paper age
(36:54):
.
We're called the paper age.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, and that's that's kind of what it is.
I mean, you know, the, the, thedigital age is, is where we're
at and this opens the, the, theboundaries tremendously for
people to to get.
I mean, you know, you candeliver a communications course
to 100 people, you can dolectures to 100 people, 200
(37:18):
people, really simple, about thetone scale and things like that
.
That's how my dad got inScientology at a community
college was about the tone scale, giving out free tickets and
stuff like that, and you know,you can FS them to us.
You can, you know, haveauditors.
I mean, there's just so manythings.
It's just a matter of do youwant to?
(37:39):
Do you want to put it there forother people?
Because if it isn't there forother people, it won't be there
for you.
If that's the case, so it's nota make-wrong, it's just.
You know, we could really usemore independent Scientologists
working together shoulder toshoulder and not just being
individuals.
(37:59):
You know, the individuation isthe primary thing and having the
willingness to put somethingthere.
So food for thought foreverybody.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
That's fantastic yeah .
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So are we hiring.
Yeah, we're always hiring.
We can have auditors across theplanet.
Right now we've got the threeauditors that we have here,
we've got Arthur working on hisPro TRS course, we've got one in
India.
So we're trying to havedifferent time zones for
(38:32):
different auditors so that wehave auditors in every time zone
on the planet with anypopulation you know, not
counting for oceans and stuff.
But yeah, I mean that's whatneeds to happen, is there needs
to be a proliferation, a unionof people who are willing to
(38:55):
change life for the better allacross the planet and be in
communication with each otherand make it as fun as possible,
because it's a really fun game.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's a really fun game.
Yeah, is there a possibility ofhaving a podcast on FSMing?
Maybe there needs to be an FSMpodcast to show people.
How do you introduce thistechnology to people in a way
(39:26):
that helps them and listen?
I know my friends and I knowpeople who need some help.
I know people who are a littletouched, you know, touched by an
angel.
You know what I'm saying andmight need a little support.
You know what I'm saying.
On the mental health side orwhatever, might need a life
repair, might need, you know,just do some book one die next
(39:49):
to relieve some trauma and somePTSD and some stuff they got
going on.
There's a lot of people that wejust know in general.
You know what I'm saying.
You could walk around thestreet and you could see
somebody who is, you know, stuckin an incident or who is so low
tone they can barely lift theirhead up.
You know these things are real.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, yeah, no-transcript here.
(40:42):
They are something like that.
I mean it could happen with theadvent of ai, with with you
know getting out there on tiktokand you know presenting it
properly, and people needing,needing solutions beyond
everybody's a narcissist.
You know these, these, theseconcepts that are, you know it's
(41:03):
where it's you're pointing thefinger at.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
You know there's there's like Tik TOK.
Yeah, I mean it's and, and, and, that's, that's.
You go on TikTok.
Everybody is a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, I mean it's and that's.
You know it's bad news sells.
Well, you know what?
Not everybody can be asuppressive.
Not everybody can be asuppressive and there isn't as
much suppression out there aspeople think.
It's just you know, you needsome auditing to look at things
(41:32):
and go okay, here it is, this iswhat's really happening and
there, you know, there is asolution to it, there is an
answer to it.
You can be happy and you canflourish and prosper and there's
a big market out there ofpeople that need help.
So I hope everybody enjoyedthis podcast.
I thank Arthur and Quentin forbeing here.
Quentin's a man about townright now.
(41:55):
I made time to do this.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
And.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I thank both of you for being here.
There's Quentin walking aroundtown.
Where are you at Quentin?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I am in Metro Manila, philippines.
Okay With the skyscrapers, andinfrastructure is very nice.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, and the sun's getting ready to set this
evening.
So thanks for being here, youguys, and give this some thought
to our listeners and how youcould not only benefit from it
from a financial standpoint, butfrom a helping other people,
which will help you financiallyas well, when you open that flow
of getting things going in yourarea and not being afraid.
(42:37):
There's nothing to be afraid ofNothing.
So take care, everybody, andwe'll see you on Monday for
another podcast, namaste, and welove you, thank you.
Thanks for watching.
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