February 3, 2025 • 61 mins
What if you could harness the power of your imagination to create the life you desire? Join us on a journey through the fascinating world of Independent Scientology as Arthur shares his transformative experience with clay demos, revealing how this unique exercise helped him conquer cigarette addiction by unraveling the positive aspects of his habit. We explore the intriguing concepts of intentional and unintentional mass, using engaging examples like dream boards and architectural models, and introduce Quenton's innovative idea of "producing on purpose" (POP). Through this lens, we examine how the intentional creation of mass can serve as a powerful tool for shaping our reality.
Discover the profound impact that clay demos can have on personal growth and problem-solving. By physically manifesting issues with clay, such as financial struggles or misunderstandings, we delve into Scientology and Dianetics principles to highlight how this practice leads to mental clarity and as-is-ness. We also discuss the art of clay table clearing and its alignment with Dianetics' goals of achieving erasure and realizations. Unravel the mysteries of the mind as we discuss the transformative potential of these techniques in resolving life's persistent challenges and misunderstandings, offering listeners practical insights into creating meaningful change.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi everyone and welcome to another Scientology
Outside of the Church podcastbrought to you by the Advanced
Org of the Great Plains and theCollege of Independent
Scientologycom.
This is Season 10, episode.
I always look and then I forgetwhich one.
It is Episode 18, to get itright.
It is episode 18, to get itright, and I'm here with Quentin
(00:31):
and Arthur and we are going todo I don't know what the working
title is going to be, but it'sgoing to be about mass and
mental mass.
So, arthur, this was your topicand we just hit the record
button.
We didn't talk about this atall, which is not our
traditional way.
But, uh, given, given all ofthe circumstances that we have
going on, quentin's travelingand, and he's borrowing an
(00:54):
office and everything he's in,uh, where are you at manila,
right?
No, philippines, yep, so he'sgoing to be talking a little
softer, but he, he, you know, 75of it is showing up and
quentin's showing up even thoughhe's traveling.
So we's going to be talking alittle softer, but he, you know,
75% of it is showing up andQuentin's showing up even though
he's traveling.
So we're going to give him an Aplus on that.
So thank you for doing that,quentin.
So mass, tell us about mass andwhat you want to converse about
(01:19):
mass, mental mass, et cetera.
Arthur.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I've kind of realized it's a much bigger
subject than meets the eye.
So when we do the um, studytech, we're taught about the
absence of mass, and so we dothe clay demos to create mass um
, and then and then recently Ihad a little life situation pop
up and you gave me a bit ofhomework around something I
(01:45):
should be having more controlover, which included a clay demo
.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, Should we.
If you don't want to, we don'thave to, that's fine Look.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't mind discussing it All right.
So this is it.
So I have to reduce mycigarette smoking and so john
gave me an um uh, clay demo, anassignment to do, to create a
clay demo on the benefits ofsmoking.
And so of course you know thatthat in itself has given me a
lot of thought.
(02:20):
How do you create somethinglike that out of plasticine?
And then I thought a lot aboutit, because then we get
situations in life where we getunintentional mass added to us
through situations we have anenergetic mass that comes on.
So now we've got two approachesWe've got an unintentional mass
(02:40):
being delivered to our bodythat we accept, and then we've
got intentional mass to try andunderstand something, and I'm
guessing they both havedifferent weights.
But then I thought what aboutactually taking it a step
further and creating actualintentional mass?
Right, people do like um, umdream boards or, you know,
(03:03):
architects will do models of abuilding um to show, to show
mass.
So it's not a new topic, butI'm curious to see what the
scientology perspective isaround mass itself.
And how big is the topic reallyas outside of just the learning
and outside of, say, just thetraumatic past experiences um,
(03:26):
how big of a topic actually, isit?
How can you use it?
How can you use it?
You know, god created man fromclay, right?
You know what I mean?
He made the first clay figurinebefore he put life into it.
So that was an intentionalcreation.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
He did a clay demo.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That's right.
So how could we use this topicto create mass?
Outside of you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Interesting.
It's an interesting topic andit is.
That is very interesting.
Wow, it's a huge topic.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
go ahead, quinn.
So it's interesting because,even as you're talking about it
now and you use these examplesof um clay, demo and stuff like
that, which I think is is a verygood gradient to understanding
and working with intentionalmass, as you called it, and
mocking something up, isinteresting because I've always
(04:30):
looked at it as a mental thing,right, and it's something where
back years ago it was probablyback gosh, maybe 15, 20 years
ago now I used to do this thingcalled pop and I would snap my
finger, I'd go pop, pop and popstood for producing on purpose,
(04:50):
right, producing on purpose POV.
And so if I saw a car that Iliked, or if I saw a person that
I wanted or something like that, I'd be like pop, oh, I popped
that, you know like that, and Iwould kind of mock it up, if you
will, for myself.
So if it's somebody else's car,and I'm fine with that, but if
(05:12):
it's somebody else's car and Iwanted it or something like it,
I would mock it up for myselfand I would create the mass for
me, like it would be mine, right, it would be mine, right, it
would be mine.
And I wasn't dependent upon thematter M-A-T-T-E-R.
I wasn't dependent upon thematter in order to have it, if
(05:35):
that makes sense.
So to me, that's how I'vealways kind of liked it.
It was something that, witheverything, really, how I've
always kind of liked it, it wassomething that, with everything,
really, you mock it all up,right, this is all you're making
, right, and it's allimagination, if you will, that
you're making anything in yourlife, good, bad or indifferent.
(05:56):
And so, yeah, I think this is areally good topic to have for
us as Scientologists, where wewant to, like, create something
different for ourselves, just adifferent experience for
ourselves in life.
Um, so let's, let's, let's talkabout, let's get some mass on
this well, because I gotthinking more about it as well.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So what's the idea of of creating clay demos to help
you understand?
Yeah, it's to createunderstanding.
And so how many obstacles do wehave in life that we can
exactly as you were saying, wecan naturally create that mass,
like we all have abilities tonaturally create.
Let's say we have 100 things wecan create mass.
(06:37):
We could probably naturallycreate, say, 50 of those, but
what about those 50 that westruggle with, that we want
those, but what about those 50that we struggle with, that we
want?
You know, could it be as simpleas making a demo to really to
really apply those things thatwe struggle with, you know, like
for me to stop smoking, forexample?
Create a clay demo and as I'mcreating, things will start
(07:00):
evolving in my being and I'llcreate a new form of energy
within me and a new way ofthinking as I'm molding.
At the same time, myunderstanding will shift and
I'll have realizations while I'mdoing it.
And so what if we took it, say,other struggles, like, say,
money struggles, for example,how would you create a clay demo
to really put in anunderstanding of what money is
(07:25):
or what relationships shouldlook like according to you, um,
so on, and so on, and so on,like you could really take this
to quite a new level, I reckonright, if it's not already that
way well, it is, and we have to,uh, roll back to about 1951,
(07:45):
1952, with the scientology anddianetic axioms and I'm going to
just visit the ones that applyto this, but it's, it's going to
be axiom 11, which is thestates of being, isness, alter
isness, not isness as isness.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So if something reads on a meter, anything that
doesn't read on a meter won'trun as a process.
The reason why the meter readsand Quentin is on his solo
course right now and he's justright on the precipice of of the
meter issues what's happeningis.
That's why it's important,that's why I said that q is if
(08:33):
it's reading, there's adisagreement there.
That disagreement that shows upBecause it is an alter is
Because if it wasn't showing up,there wouldn't be anything
there to run because there's nomass.
(08:54):
And so it shows up andmanifests on the meter as a
small fall, fall long, fall,long fall, blow down or, in some
cases, an instant FN, dependingon what you're auditing
Dianetics or Scientology.
So, in that wise, if you havesomething that you misunderstand
, on course let's say it's aword.
(09:15):
Did I say something you didn'tunderstand?
Artie?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, no, no, I'm just going to the tech dictionary.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay.
So, in that wise, when you havea misunderstood word, what's
happening?
When you have a misunderstoodword, there's an alter isness
going on there, there's adisagreement, there's mental
mass being created becausemisunderstood words or
disagreements, even if you don'thave a misunderstood word,
(09:44):
because sometimes you can readsomething and go wait, wait,
what what's being said there?
You might understand all of thewords that are being said in a
sentence or a paragraph, but youcan't quite put your finger on
what LRH is trying to say.
For one reason or another therecan be many, but what you need
(10:04):
to do is either clear the wordsand make sure that you have a
total understanding of them,because what you're doing when
you're clearing a word and it'sthe exact same definition of
clear when a person is clear,they no longer have their wait
for it reactive mind Okay.
Now when you're clearing a word, it reactive mind Okay.
(10:28):
Now when you're clearing a word, that word is a portion of the
reactive mind.
Until you understand it fully,it goes from an alter is-ness to
an as-is-ness as you clear theword.
As-is-ness means clearing.
You're getting rid of that massNow, by extension.
You're getting rid of that massNow, by extension.
Already, situation with thebenefits of smoking or doing any
(10:50):
type of clay demo.
Lrh approached this from theviewpoint of clay table clearing
.
This is what's done on the Keyto Life course LRH's version
Clay table clearing, clay tableclearing.
So if you can put something inclay completely, you can, as is
the situation, just like you canwhen you're clearing a word,
(11:12):
and sometimes you might need todo it over and over and over
until you get a cognition or arealization.
A cognition, along withtypically a floating needle and
very good indicators with theperson, means that that has
keyed out.
We're not looking for a key outwith clay table clearing.
(11:34):
We're looking for an erasure ofwhatever mass is being created,
because for it to persist,there has to be a lie behind it.
Anything to persist has to havean alter, is off of it, and if
(11:54):
you can spot that fully and gookay, here it is poof you have
an erasure.
You might as well be doingDianetics in getting erasure.
Scientology is a key out.
Dianetics is an erasure.
Clay table clearing is also anerasure, because what you're
doing to get anything to ceaseto persist, you have to mock it
(12:17):
up on top of itself.
If you have a headache, put aheadache there and the headache
will go away.
Okay, now, that only works tothe degree that you match it.
You duplicate it.
So clay table clearing is yougetting yourself to put it into
the physical universe and thechanges can be nothing short of
just bloody miraculous, becauseyou're putting it on top of it,
(12:41):
going aha.
There it is, I've seen peoplego ahead qu.
There it is.
I've seen people go ahead,quentin.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, finish your flow.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I've seen people who have done definitions of word on
key to life.
My former girlfriend spent ayear full-time a year full-time,
10 to 10, doing the definitionsthat need to be done on a clay
table, clearing on key to life.
It can take that long for somepeople in some circumstances.
(13:11):
That is not typical, but thatgoes to show you how far the
understanding has to come for aperson to get an as-is-ness.
Typically it might take acouple iterations of those clay
representations to get ithandled until you get an
as-is-ness.
Now.
There were extenuatingcircumstances in that, so don't
(13:32):
worry, you're not going to be onClay Table for a year to our
listeners if you do something.
But if you've got a problem,whether it's a body problem or
it's a problem in life, you haveto use clay table in order to
get an as isness.
If short of anything else, thisis something you can.
(13:52):
You can do, okay, because ifyou, if you, understand
something, you can put it inclay.
If you don't understandsomething, you can't put it in
clay.
And that's when the coursesupervisor, your twin, comes up
and goes I don't see it.
And they're like well, whatdon't you see?
It's all no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't tell me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Show me, that's what lies so let me just jump in
because because this is so goodfor a number of different
reasons.
So you know, I'm from Alabama,right, and you got to talk plain
to me, right, and so I kind oflike to kind of simplify things
in such a way where, think abouthow we speak and how many times
(14:36):
have we got into a disagreement?
You talked about thesedisagreements that happen in the
mind, disagreements that happenin the mind.
How many times have we gotteninto a disagreement with
somebody or whatever, and you'dbe like God, this feels so heavy
.
Or you're in a relationship andyou want the relationship to
feel loving and light andwonderful, but it's like, oh,
this is feeling so heavy.
What is that?
(14:57):
What is the heavy, right,that's?
the mass, that's the mass right.
And so naturally, almost, wekind of get into this place
where we recognize thatsomething is being added onto
this.
This is not how it's supposedto be, there's some kind of
(15:18):
alter.
Is this happening here?
And I don't like it, damn it.
And I don't like it, damn it.
And you kind of get this wholething where it's like even in
our regular day-to-day which iswhy I love Scientology, because
it shows you, it helps youunderstand what's really going
on.
But even in our regularday-to-day we feel the heaviness
(15:42):
of stress and of whatever'sgoing on in our jobs or what's
going on in our financial livesor whatever.
And all of these are thingsthat's happening, right?
So axiom number three whenJonathan brought up axioms,
axiom number three says space,energy, objects, form and time
are the result of considerationsmade and or agreed upon or not
by the static and are perceivedsolely because the static
(16:06):
considers it can perceive them.
So catch this.
So money matters.
Let's look at your money, let'slook at your finances for a
second, because you know I likemoney.
And so when we're looking atfinances and people start to
worry about finances, right,People start to worry about
(16:26):
whether or not I have enough, orwhether or not it's going to be
enough, or whatever, whatever.
And the reason why it stressespeople out almost to the point
of exhaustion and or demise isbecause money can be very as a
particle, it's just aconsideration.
Money is just a consideration,but it's so closely connected
with people's survival that theylook at a lack of or less than
(16:50):
money as a survival decrease.
This is interesting.
So I have less particles, youcan call it a paper bag, you can
call it anything.
Right, I have less particlesand I survive less.
This is the thought right.
But we understand that thesethings are only the result of
considerations per.
(17:11):
Axiom three and then axiom fivesays energy consists of
postulated particles in space.
So if you go in and you startmocking this up, if you go in
and you start creating thisworry, this angst, this anxiety,
this whatever stuff, it getsreally heavy on you and it can
interrupt what you're trying todo as a being.
(17:32):
Get this.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Now it it.
We're going to have to explainit when you finish.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
No, we're on it because it becomes so heavy to a
person which I know exactlywhere you go with this GPM but
it becomes so heavy on a personthat they can start to create
(18:02):
their own tug of war withthemselves.
We call it self-sabotage attimes, right?
They kind of start to sabotagethemselves.
They start to sabotage theirown desires, their own goals,
their own objectives.
They start to sabotagethemselves.
This happens over and over andover again.
Now, when Jonathan said well,okay, if you can duplicate
something you used about clay,if you can duplicate something
(18:22):
so entirely that it, as is theproblem, is no longer a problem,
right, think about this.
You put it on top of anything.
Now, I do this a lot inrelationships, right, I do this
a lot in relationships where youhave a disagreement with your
2D, right, with yourrelationship, and then start to
(18:43):
like, actually mirror thatperson, right, you start to
mirror them, right, and whatends up happening is and what I
do is I also increase affinity.
So there's this thing where yousay, um, the rule is to argue
head to head, like to argue headto head, so you put your
forehead against your 2d'sforehead and you continue the
(19:03):
argument what were you sayingwhat?
And what you'll notice is youcannot argue with the person
when you're duplicating them.
It just doesn't argue, itdoesn't feel like an argument
anymore, it actually becomeslaughable.
And so you put your headstogether and you continue the
(19:23):
discussion just like this and wedo not move until we work it
out right.
What happens is you'reduplicating that person so much
that it the argument as is right.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, that, and that also goes with one of the one of
the axioms is is the highestaffinity that you can have is to
occupy the same same space yesit's the same, it's the.
It's the same thing.
So I gotta be careful what Isay in a public podcast because
I don't wanna give away anyspoilers on the bridge.
(19:54):
But the thing is, is whatyou're doing there in that
situation, or what you're doingwith clay table processing, is
you're basically saying to theperson how do you do that?
Whatever it is Okay.
And it said you know thedefinition of a clear is a being
(20:17):
who no longer has their ownreactive mind.
But he goes on to say shortlyafter that, when you're getting
onto the solo course, in thematerials that are given to the
pre-OT, you're not a pre-clearanymore, now you're a pre-OT.
He also says that a clear canmock up a reactive mind
(20:39):
unwittingly, because it's sortof like you had an itch and it's
healed, and then you startscratching that area and you
start mocking up that problemagain.
And I'm being very rudimentaryin this and that's something you
have to be careful of is athetan gets what they postulate.
(21:00):
What are you postulating?
Okay, how is it that cigarettesare good for you?
Show me that.
How is it that your lumbosis ispersisting?
How is it that your lumbosis ispersisting?
Okay, you're the one putting itthere.
So if you put it in clay on topof it, guess what?
You've created an as-is-ness,you've butted your forehead up
(21:21):
to your problem that you putthere in the first place the
issue that you want to handle byas-is-ing it and putting it in
clay, just like that.
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I didn't hear any of that.
Can you say that all again?
It just cut out while you weresaying all that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, okay.
So what I was saying is thatwhen you, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Right, because you do mock up this stuff and you do
create your own, your posturestick as you kind of get higher
and higher and it just makes somuch sense.
Perfect example.
This might relate to a lot ofpeople listening have you ever
been somewhere?
I don't know, I'm in thePhilippines, so I'll just use
(22:04):
this but have you ever beensomewhere and you see some ants?
And you see the ants and youstart think they're crawling on
you and so you, you, you'reshaking your leg, you're shaking
stuff out, you, you, you feelit crawling on your legs or
whatever.
Whatever it's, they're nottouching you, the ants are just
(22:25):
walking over there, and yet youcan kind of start feeling the
creepily crawlies, the creepilycrawlies on your leg, stuff like
that.
It's such an interestingphenomenon that you're actually
making this thing happen.
You're making it happen andit's all for you.
So, as we deal with this ideaof mass, what ends up happening
(22:46):
is that many people don't.
Maybe they do, I don't know,but do you really realize how
much you're making your lifeharder?
Do you really realize how muchyou're actually creating your
own problems, goals problems,math?
You're actually creating yourown problems for the purpose of
(23:09):
trying to solve them.
You're mocking up your ownproblems.
So I got, I got to fix it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, dayton's got to have a game.
It's just the differencebetween are you playing a game
you don't want to play becausethat's the only game you have to
play, or, after you go clear,you realize okay, this is the
game that I am playing and Idon't want to play this game.
Obviously, I created it and Idon't want to play this game.
(23:35):
Obviously I created it and Idon't want to play it.
I want to play another game.
So you have to look at it andgo okay, this is not a game I
want to play.
I'm going to play this gameinstead.
But in some cases you have toget the as is-ness of it and
look at it.
And the microcosm on this, whenyou're doing clay
representations or a clay demois is the course supervisor one
of the students that checks youout and says now, looks at the
(23:58):
label and says, no, I don't seeit okay.
So what do you?
What do you immediately get?
Go into defense mode.
you mock up a resistance youmock up a goals, problems, mass,
mini in size and go what is itthat you don't see?
But see?
The thing is is, if thesupervisor or the twin that's
(24:21):
checking you out can't see it,it's what?
It's not there, okay, and soyou're ridging up on it going,
well, okay, and so you'reridging up on it going, well,
it's, it's there, don't you seeit?
No, because if somebody elsecan't see it, it's not there,
and I hope our listeners getthis is you have to create that
(24:42):
perfect, as is this, so that theperson checking you out can see
it.
If they can't see it, if itisn't obvious, it isn't an
as-is-ness.
That's the whole point.
Now, this is the difference.
This is mass, this is physicaluniverse mass that you're using
(25:03):
to get an as-is-ness, as opposedto you looking at a mental
image, picture or aconsideration.
What have you in auditing,where all it is is it's
conceptual, it's not mass per se, it's just in your head.
There may be a pictureassociated with it, there may be
feelings, there may besignificance, whatever, but
that's mass as well.
But when you put that in thephysical universe, there is no
(25:25):
bigger crunch that occurs thanwhen you actually see that in
the physical universe becauseyou're creating it perfectly on
top of itself.
However long it takes, howevermuch you ridge up on it, if
you're ridging up on it, you'renot looking at it for the way
that it truly is.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
That's why it persists and, and that's why
auditing.
That's why auditing is sovaluable, because it gets you
and the auditor, the auditorgets you to keep looking at the
situation from so many differentviewpoints, different
perspective, different ways oflooking around.
What do you see, what do youhear, what do you smell?
(26:03):
What is this?
However, it works right.
You keep looking at it from somany different ways that you
totally recreate this.
You're recreating it, you'reputting it in on top of itself,
you're duplicating it, and itcan therefore have it erases,
which, in dynamics, it erases,and it does not have force with
you anymore.
This is why auditing is sovaluable, because you're not
(26:27):
just talking about it.
And oh, this is what happenedwith my mama.
Oh, and how did you feel aboutthat?
Well, I just didn't really feelgood about it.
And oh, this is what happenedwith my mama.
Oh, and how did you feel aboutthat?
Well, I just didn't really feelgood about it.
You know, she just really mademe mad.
You know that ain't he gonna donothing?
Right, because there's me I didit.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, there's something there that is left
uninspected, you know, and andlet's just take it.
Let's just take it to a littlebit more of a reductio ad
absurdum, but it is reality thatyou go out into the world and
you're like, oh, these fuckingdrivers, they just don't know
how to drive, they're pieces ofshit and they're dumbasses or
they're a maniac.
Okay, so if you're doing that,you're looking at something from
(27:07):
a certain perspective and thatis not a pro-survival
perspective, and you could say,oh well, who cares about drivers
?
No-transcript.
(27:40):
No, no, no no, it's definitelythe other driver.
A hundred percent.
But see, that's that's.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
If you don't want to look at itfor the way that it is, it
isn't going to change.
That's it.
That's all there is to it.
So, whatever it is, that'sgoing on with your interaction
with the physical universe anduntil you get onto the OT levels
(28:06):
, you're going to butt headswith the physical universe.
You're going to havedisagreements, and even on the
OT levels and this is why isbecause, even if you're OT, if
you're putting something there,you're putting something there
because you're putting somethingthere.
And when you get onto the OTlevels and this is true for me
as well if you're sitting theredramatizing about something for
(28:27):
months and months and months andmonths, I'm talking about
myself.
Long pause.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Who's putting it there?
Okay, everybody take a moment.
Everybody take a moment and go.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right, Right, Because here's the thing.
Here's the thing is it's outethics.
It's out ethics.
You might as well be puttingyourself in one of these old
torture things.
You know the box Torturedevices.
Where it has all the pointythings on it and they seal you
in and it looks like a sort of ahuman form.
(29:08):
But you're doing it to yourself, You're putting it to yourself,
You're putting it there andthat's out ethics for an OT.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
That's out ethics.
That's also why solitaryconfinement in our modern-day
prison system, solitaryconfinement, is such a
horrendous experience for a lotof people, especially people who
have their own withholds andovers, because they get put in
the hole and when they put inthe hole and when they're in the
hole they have to they dealwith them that stuff and it hits
them over and over and overagain and it's real mass.
(29:43):
I'm telling y'all it's justlike a beating.
It's just like a beating.
In fact, a therapist friend ofmine said to me because I was in
a 2D situation and there was nophysical stuff going on, but he
was like, wow, how do you dealwith these beatings?
I was like I'm not being beat.
And he said do you know thedefinition of that word?
(30:06):
Have you cleared the word beatto beat, to beat.
And when I looked and clearedthe word a beating one
definition is physical attack,but the other has.
It's just a repeated assault.
It doesn't have to necessarilybe physical.
And what my other mother usedto always say, she said a man
(30:31):
can beat a woman with his fist,but a woman can beat a man with
her mouth Right and she willbeat him over and over assault,
assault, assault, assault,assault, assault.
It's a beating.
And so when you're talkingabout this mass and you're in
the hole you're in there, you'redealing with your own demons,
as it were.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
this is hitting you just like a club, just like a
whip, just like a pooh, pooh,pooh, right, and it is not
pleasurable, right, and that'sthe thing is, when something
like that occurs and somebody'sput into prison and everything
like that, and they haven't hadanybody there to actually
communicate with them, they'vejust said, well, you're guilty
(31:08):
and this is what's going tohappen, you're going to be in
here for so many years and thatwill rehabilitate you.
No, it just makes things worse.
So who's doing the beating up?
You are.
You're doing the beating upbecause you're mocking up mental
mass.
You're buying into narratives,you're buying into situations
(31:30):
that I mean, what is a jail?
A jail is a house of baddecisions.
Somebody made a bad decisionand that's how they got there.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Okay, Everybody take a moment and go, hmm.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Right, the real question is what caused that
person to make that bad decisionto wind up in the who's gal?
That's it.
And what does it come down to?
And we've said this over and,over and over and over A
misunderstood concept, word orsymbol.
That's it.
That's it.
And if you were to rehabilitatesomeone and get that cleared up
(32:08):
Now, granted, granted, thereare such things as evil purposes
and all of that, but at thebottom of an evil purpose, same
thing.
Misunderstood concept, word orsymbol.
Because there was a priorconfusion.
Okay, this is what you handlein false purpose rundown.
There was a prior confusion.
And if you had that person, ifyou, you, you had a dump truck
(32:32):
load of clay taken to a prisonand you had core supervisors in
there and you had these guys putin clay what it was, that was
the prior confusion that ledthem to do what it was that they
did, and that they were usingsolutions to problems that were
based off of earliermisunderstoods, to problems that
(32:53):
were based off of earliermisunderstoods.
The only way to make money inlife was to sell my soul and
sell drugs to other people,because that's the only way I'm
going to get rich.
Okay, there's the priorconfusion that's.
The only way you can survive isby harming other people with
toxic substances and not caringabout the person in front of you
.
If you were to do that, youcould truly rehabilitate a
(33:15):
person just with clay tableprocessing.
Now, this podcast isn't aboutclay table processing, but it is
a very strong analog, acomparison to what it is that
you're doing in auditing whatyou're doing in life.
If you're putting something outthere as a certain way and it
is not pro-survival you're theone putting it out there in a
(33:36):
certain way which creates mass,the person creating the mass.
The mass is an alteration ofwhat truly is.
You've just convinced yourselfotherwise.
At the end of the day, this isall a thing that he does.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And when.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
What were you saying?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And this is all a.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Thing that he does.
I was just going to say I thinkit's a very powerful skill to
learn and it's a very powerfultool that you can apply in
pretty much any situation.
And the reality of that reallyhit me when you gave me the
assignment.
And it wasn't until you gave methe assignment.
(34:19):
Not only that, but in my courseas well, I've got to do another
clay demo as well, and it'sfunny because even just trying
to recreate the clay demo in mymind before I put it into clay
is a lot of work as well.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Right, what are you doing?
What are you doing in doingthat?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, you're creating the clay demo before you create
the clay demo.
And the funny thing is, rightthe moment in past when I've sat
down to do clay demos, it's notuntil I touch it and just start
playing with it that thingsreally start to emerge and like,
(34:59):
while I'm trying to concoct itin my mind.
So then I could just sit downand just smash it out, you know
30 minutes or whatever.
It's not until I actually touchit.
And then, quite often, when Istart touching it and I'm
actually pushing it,manipulating it, creating it,
that ideas really start flowingand then the concept really
(35:20):
starts opening up and then Ifind I actually make more
correct decisions once I'veactually got the clay in my hand
and as I'm molding it andpushing it and manipulating it,
the idea starts to evolve andthen the understanding begins to
evolve.
(35:41):
It's a really interesting thingbecause even just touching it
and putting your attention todoing it is when the magic
really starts kicking in.
So from my end, I've just gotto pull a finger out and stop
thinking about it and confrontthe clay demo while being in
front of the clay, notconfronting it in my mind and
(36:03):
then putting it to the clay.
You know what I mean.
It's like I'm kidding myselfand I'm just stalling the
inevitable.
Yeah, you're queuing in A, youknow what I mean.
Yeah, you're'm kidding myselfand I'm just stalling the
inevitable.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, you're queuing in A you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, you're queuing in A.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Okay, how am I going to do this?
How am I going to do this?
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
Think, think, think, think,figure, figure, figure.
Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, yes,which reminds me clay demo, the
revised clay demo, where I saidyou need to put the labels in
the clay yeah, yeah, I gottajust do that definitely.
(36:34):
Yeah, I forgot about thatanyway so, but so so.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So when you were just talking about, um, these uh,
evil purposes and misunderstoodwords, symbols and and concepts
and I noticed that when I wasdoing my, it was that kind of
was really eye-opening for me,right, it was really eye-opening
these misunderstood concepts,and that one was really
(36:59):
interesting, symbols too, butthe misunderstood concepts,
because it was.
You would go in and you wouldfind am I allowed to talk about
this?
I don't know what I'm supposedto say.
No, no, you're fine.
Am I allowed to talk about this?
I don't know what I'm supposedto say.
No, no, you're fine.
But you go in and you find thisthing that you think this is
what I'm thinking about.
This is how I respond to thiskind of situation.
(37:21):
When somebody does this, you'resupposed to do that.
Right, that's how I'm supposedto go through life.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Now I'm supposed to?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yep, I'm supposed to, and this is how I go through
life.
And so, as you're going throughyour ills and as you're going
through this thing, this process, you'd be like, oh no, that's
not how you do, that, that's nothow you run an army, that's not
how you take over a planet,that's not how you do such a
like, that's not how you do that.
You can do it a different wayand you become more aware.
(37:53):
You become more aware of howI'm kind of running on this
automatic in my life.
I'm running on this thing Likethis is when I feel stressed, I
pick up a cigarette.
When I feel stressed, I pick upa cigarette.
When I feel stressed, I pick upa cigarette.
And that's not necessarily whathas to be done, right, you
(38:19):
don't have to function that way.
And once you start to reallysee what is the misunderstood
somewhere along the line, it'slike, oh okay, and you totally
change your postulate, youtotally change your way of
operating about it.
And so I've loved, loved, lovedthe process of the grays and
the ales.
I loved it because it reallychanged how I view things.
(38:40):
Right, and what do we know whenyou change the way you look at
things, the things you look atchange and it no longer has the
same effect on you and you canactually be more causative as it
relates to these things that'shappening in our lives.
You're not just the effect ofit anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Right.
Well, it's the uninspectedthings that manifest as mass,
because there's something therethat hasn't been looked at fully
, so it persists, and that ismental mass.
And when you start to controlwhat it is, you get past clear
and you start mocking thesethings up.
Okay, you have to be able tospot mocking these things up.
(39:29):
Now, to take this as a bit of afurther extension, ned for OTs,
which is the newer OT levelsOT4 through OT7, and even back
down to OT3, you do not runDianetics and you know this from
your solo course.
You do not run Dianetics on aclear.
Okay, now the reasons, reasonsfor this, we can't really go
(39:52):
into.
But once a person is clear, youdon't want to do this because
the rest of the ot case verywell might create as a for lack
of a better word stimulus,response, creation, and when I
(40:13):
say a creation, it can be adoozy, because you're dealing
with other reactive minds otherthan your own that are still
part of your composite case.
This is why we don't runDianetics.
So LRH had to get clever andfigure out how to do this on OT3
(40:36):
in such a way that this wasn'thappening for the pre-OT.
And running the OT3, how do Isay this running the OT3 case.
So you have to be very carefulof this that even though you're
a pre-OT, this sort of thing canstill happen, and that's how
(40:57):
NED for OTs got developed, as itwas an actual remedy, was an
actual rundown to handle peoplewho had actually gone clear,
didn't know it and were stillrunning Dianetics, and so things
were being created in order tohave something to run, and this
is something LRH had to behandled on, and David Mayo
(41:21):
spotted this, figured it out andgot LRH through it to a point
to where they said, wait aminute, this is much bigger than
just a rundown and they turnedit into New Area Dianetics for
OTs.
Interestingly enough, there'sno Dianetics on New Area
Dianetics for OTs at all.
It's literally a misnomer andwe have to approach it from a
(41:43):
Scientology aspect in order toget around having to run
incidents dynamically and it's avery, very clever thing using
listing and nulling, which isthe most powerful auditing
process we have, and what is onthe L rundowns and that's all
(42:04):
there is to that, Because whenyou're doing listing and nulling
, you're evaluating for thepre-clear and it's the only
place and the only kind ofevaluation that can ever occur
in an auditing at all, and theonly way that we can do that is
if we know how to use a meterproperly and we're looking for a
(42:28):
blowdown of the needle and thetone arm going to the right.
It stays there and you get afloating needle or you get an
instant fn or a dial wide fn.
Blow down that type of a thingand that says bye, george, we've
found whatever the item is forthat pc because of what the
needle said and we'd say, okay,I'd like to indicate to you that
(42:50):
your item is pumpkins, okay,right, a what, who or why
question.
And when you're doing that,when you're doing that, what
you're doing is you're sayingthis is the item and the pre-OT
or the PC says yes, that is myitem, oh my God.
(43:11):
And so what you've done isyou've just, as is that
particular item for thatparticular who, what or why
question.
And so now you, you get anerasure.
It's just like doing a claydemo, but in concepts, okay,
yeah.
And the funny thing is is whatcan happen, and you've got to be
(43:34):
really good with listing andknowing to know this, and I
teach all my auditors this isthat sometimes this can happen
two or three times in tiers.
You give them the item and youcontinue on auditing.
I just got goosebumps, sorry.
Give them the item and youcontinue on auditing.
I just got goosebumps, sorry,you, you.
You give them the item and thena few minutes later you're
(43:55):
doing something else and theperson says you know, that item
you gave me, yeah, that that's awrong item, okay, okay, let's
go back to that.
And then what they'll realizeis that they had a couple layers
of charge.
That item cleared off the platebut yet something else bubbled
(44:17):
up to the surface and now that'stheir item and a few minutes
later it might come up again andit bubbled up to the surface.
Because you're getting thisupside-down pyramid kind of
thing going, where it's justbroadening and broadening and
broadening to where they'reas-is-ing this huge chunk of
case, mental mass that they'vecreated, and they couldn't see
(44:38):
the trees for the forest untilthey got further in and it
changed.
And the amount of case that youcan handle on the correct item,
which is a symbol that theperson is attributing to an
aberration, can change two,three times.
I've never had it happen morethan three times.
But that's what you're doing,is you're associating a symbol
mass with something and as theperson's viewpoint changes, they
(45:01):
now see oh it was this.
Oh wait, a minute.
No, it's this.
Oh wait, oh, it's this.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I'm laughing.
I'm laughing because I rememberhow this happens.
Yeah, yeah, I remember exactlyhow it happens.
Let me ask you a question,because now you don't have to be
clear to do the L's, is thatright?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
No, he says you can do it anywhere on the bridge,
but you're going to get a lotmore from the L's if you have
less junk in the trunk, so tospeak.
So your awareness is going tobe higher.
You're going to look at thingslike we were just talking about
these levels.
(45:42):
If you did the L's early on thebridge, you might get that
first layer.
Okay.
If you did the L's after gradefour, okay.
now you're down to the secondlayer and as far as I'm
concerned, and many class 12swill tell you this the best
(46:04):
gains for L10 and L12 come afterOT3 or better, or better,
because your awareness at OT3,if you look at the grade chart,
in the middle there's that chartof awareness, okay, right about
OT3 is where you're at sourceand we've mentioned this in
other podcasts.
If you can spot source, okay,where this is coming from, who
(46:26):
made this?
Okay, Now, that's a differentquestion at the bottom of the
bridge, who?
Because you're looking at itgenerally, it has a completely
different meaning at OT3, whomade this creation?
Who mocked it up?
You're obviously going to get alot more mileage, if you will,
(46:49):
out of what it is, because youcan spot the correct source.
And that's the differencebetween doing the Ls, l11,
that's fine, but you're going toget more out of it the further
you are up the bridge and youcan always go back and revisit
it if need be.
We could always go back andcheck your L11 and continue on,
(47:10):
and if there's something thereto run and it reads well, then
obviously there's something thatneeds to be done.
But the further along you are,the deeper it's going to go for
you to get more case gain out ofit basically.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, this is fantastic and I really
appreciate you, art, forbringing this up as it relates
to mass and masses that happenintentionally or unintentionally
somewhat.
See, some places where even forme in my 2d place, like you
(47:53):
there, there is a phenomena ofmocking up problems for the
relationship to try to beat toprove that this relationship is
viable.
Have you ever seen that thatbefore?
Like where it's like, yeah,like something comes up and like
(48:15):
, why are we, why are we arguingabout this?
And then at the end of it, oh,there's an old song break up to
make up.
That's all we do.
You break up the makeup and yougo through this stuff in
relationships because it's likeI want to prove that this
relationship is supposed to behere, I want to prove that this
(48:36):
relationship is supposed toendure and all this stuff like
this.
And ain't nobody got time forthat?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, right, well, it's the same thing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
It's the same thing.
On the first dynamic, if youthink about it, yeah, you've got
to prove to yourself this andyou've got to prove to yourself
that.
But the thing is, the thingsthat you're trying to prove is
your rightness, and thatrightness may not be the right
thing, but it's something thatyou're holding on, you're
(49:08):
putting there, I am right, I amright.
I am right.
Well, those are servicefacsimiles and sometimes you may
have to handle servicefacsimiles on the OT levels.
With the OT case, it doesn'ttake very long to run and I'm
not going to get into what it isor who it is that you're
running, but sometimes you gotto run that because that
(49:31):
rightness is a mental mass thatsays this is this way.
I'm going to prove it's thisway.
Therefore it is that way.
How wonky is that?
And it doesn't have to be thatway.
You're putting it there, sayingthere is a big, is a big, huge
concrete block in the middle ofthe highway.
(49:52):
I can't get around.
Well, who's putting theconcrete block there in the
first place?
right that's it, yeah, yeah,that's it, yeah.
But you spit, you sputter andyou say, well, I don't want to
do this clay demo, this is toohard.
This doesn't make any goddamnsense to me.
Why do I have to do this overagain for the fifth time?
(50:12):
That's the concrete block in themiddle of the road that you're
unwilling to sit there and takea look at because you might have
to do something differently.
You might have to takeresponsibility for the fact that
you're going to have to do morein order to do what it is that
you want to do.
And at the end of the day, youhave to ask yourself did I do
(50:33):
everything I could?
If I didn't, there's somethingthere that's preventing me from
doing everything I could.
Those are the concrete blocksin the roadway.
You put that in clay, you lookat it in auditing, you confront
it and you look at the source ofthe stuff.
And when you see the source ofit, it just goes poof, yeah,
(50:55):
poof.
That's all that this is, andthat's why auditor plus pc is
greater than the pc's bank.
But in arthur's case, this is athing that he has to put in
clay himself and not q a with it, and I'm not calling you out or
throwing you under the busalready at all, I'm just saying
(51:16):
it's it, we, we all have, we allhave that
right because I mean, let's lookat it cigarettes, uh, junk food
, whatever these are things thatwe have convinced ourselves
that are havingness.
(51:37):
Overts are havingness.
What do you do when you pull aperson's overts in a
confessional?
At the end of it you runhavingness.
Why?
Because those overts are a massthat they've created and said
look at all these pretty littlemarbles I have, these are my
marbles.
Okay, but those marbles arefucking toxic because you put
(52:00):
them there and you use them asstable datums that are not real
stable datums.
They're alter is that you'reusing that are causing you to go
left or right instead ofstraightforward Get rid of the
marbles, confront them, viewthem as they are, either in clay
or in session, or just sittingdown and going okay, I'm going
to just write this shit out.
(52:20):
Okay, how do I do this?
Short of that, that's what youneed to do, and if you've got
any back off on it, it's justlike when you're in a solo
session and you're a soloauditor to the degree that you
don't want to go in session isto the degree that you have to
go in session.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
That you need to go in session, right.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
That's it.
Any back off at all is anon-confront.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, I love the way LRH uses language, and even to
this degree that we're talkingabout here with mass, because
when you really think about it,mass is the building blocks of
matter, right, it's theparticles, right.
(53:04):
And so when LRH is talkingabout this, at first you're not
really thinking about it as athing, right?
You're really thinking about itas a thing, right?
You're not thinking about it asa thing, and yet I feel it.
Yet it's heavy for me, yet itcauses me worry and angst and
anxiety and feelings and allthis stuff like this.
So something is there, and sothe way LRH kind of packaged it
(53:27):
to help us understand it better,that this mental mass, what
it's doing in us, to us, thismental mass that's happening,
that we're doing it to ourselves, actually it actually can
manifest, it can become a thing,whether it be in your body,
(53:48):
whether it be in your finances,whether it be in your body,
whether it be in your finances,whether it be in your
relationship, whether it bewhatever, it can become a thing.
And then you have, you know,all kinds of manifestations that
come out of that.
But I just I think it's reallyinteresting to understand this
and I think that anybodylistening to this podcast,
should definitely listen to itagain, right, because there's a
lot of data here.
(54:08):
There was a lot of data in thispodcast.
You should definitely listen toit again, right, because
there's a lot of data here.
There was a lot of data in thispodcast.
You should definitely listen toit again.
And you know, get started, getstarted clearing some of this
stuff out.
Get started I mean, uh, evenwith it, with you are and it
relates to the smoking thinglike, like that's right, just do
, just doing this to totally asis that problem right, to
(54:34):
totally erase that problem.
How life-changing could that beright?
How life-changing would it beto get rid of a problem that we
ourselves mocked up for whateverreason?
And now I see it, I got it andit no longer has any effect on
me.
This is such a really, reallygood way of starting our journey
(54:55):
into this, and so, yeah, Ithink it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Now we only got a couple minutes left, but I wanna
make a point, and we didanother podcast on this over a
year ago.
When you're dealing with thingslike telepathy or you're
dealing with you as a being okay, the only way you can be
telepathic is if you've actuallynot convinced.
Not convinced, but you know youdon't need the physical
(55:25):
universe for one goddamn thing,and the only reason you can't be
telepathic and the only reasonyou can't feel, perceive and
know is because you've droppeddown into the physical universe
and have to have a series ofvias and have that confirmation
bias.
If I can't see it, I don'tbelieve it.
(55:47):
That's the only thing holdingyou back from being ot, okay,
and that's that's the physicaluniverse kicking in on you and
going believe me, I am solid, Ihave to be validated, real, I am
real, feel me I.
You know, I get these people newon, new on the bridge, and
(56:08):
they're like you know, I'm notfeeling any difference and I'm
like well, there's your problemright there, but you can't tell
somebody that, you can't tellthem that they have to learn
that themselves, and that's whatLRH was doing.
Is it's like no, you big dummy,you big dumb, thetan, you don't
(56:30):
have to have that viewpoint.
Well, if I can't feel it, thereisn't any change.
Well, that's because you've gotyourself convinced that you
need a body to perceiveeverything.
Okay, so pick up the cans andlet's keep going.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yeah, and that is really about a becoming right.
It's about a becoming.
I'm becoming different, I'mbecoming more, I'm becoming
something better.
As it relates to where I wasbefore, I'm becoming, and I
(57:04):
don't know how I describe it nowas a feeling, but in the
process I wouldn't say it was afeeling, I wouldn't feeling it,
I wouldn't know.
I would enjoy sessions with you, jonathan, I would enjoy your
sessions, but I felt like me, Ifelt more me.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
That's exactly it.
You're just trying to returnthe person back to native state,
where they're not having to go.
Okay, what's the temperatureoutside?
What's the weight of this?
How much pressure am I feelingon this?
Is my dick bigger?
No, my dick's not bigger.
The auditing must not beworking.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
That's a hidden standard and that's the funny
thing because people have aperception outside of themselves
when really it's just becomingyourself which can be really
foreign to people, likeincredibly foreign.
Yeah, yeah, let me introduceyou to you.
Yeah, and you can't just sayokay.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
I'm just going to introduce you to you and the
only thing I can do is that andGod, we mentioned this in so
many podcasts is you get theperson to realize where they're
viewing their pictures from.
And if they're in valence,they're looking at some some
pleasure moment from a distanceand they're looking at it going.
Wait a minute, why am I seeingthis three feet in back of my
(58:23):
head or off to the side by 20feet?
Well, that's because that's you.
I'd like you to meet you right,grab.
Grab the cans please.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Right, this is beautiful.
This is absolutely beautiful,and I said this to you before I
think offline, Jonathan but itreally is a loving work.
It's a loving work to help aperson to see themselves more
clearly, help a person to reallyfully actualize, and yeah, it's
(58:54):
a very, very powerful thing todo for people, and so kudos to
that, kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yeah, just be a being .
That's all you need to do.
Trust yourself, trust theprocess and believe us when we
say, when you get there.
When you get there, you willfrighten yourself to the degree
that you are making postulatesand then they occur instantly in
the physical universe.
(59:19):
Okay, it's not about what youget, it's not about what you
want, it's not about what youhave, it's that you are.
Everything else will follow ifyou become yourself and you know
yourself and you trust yourperceptions and don't second
guess yourself.
That's what this is all about.
(59:39):
So we hope you enjoyed thispodcast for Arthur.
We'll see you Wednesday foranother podcast Take care,
namaste.
And we another podcast Takecare, namaste, and we love you.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
Bye-bye, peace, bye-bye, thank you, thank you.
Hi everyone and welcome to another Scientology
Outside of the Church podcastbrought to you by the Advanced
Org of the Great Plains and theCollege of Independent
Scientologycom.
This is Season 10, episode.
I always look and then I forgetwhich one.
It is Episode 18, to get itright.
It is episode 18, to get itright, and I'm here with Quentin
(00:31):
and Arthur and we are going todo I don't know what the working
title is going to be, but it'sgoing to be about mass and
mental mass.
So, arthur, this was your topicand we just hit the record
button.
We didn't talk about this atall, which is not our
traditional way.
But, uh, given, given all ofthe circumstances that we have
going on, quentin's travelingand, and he's borrowing an
(00:54):
office and everything he's in,uh, where are you at manila,
right?
No, philippines, yep, so he'sgoing to be talking a little
softer, but he, he, you know, 75of it is showing up and
quentin's showing up even thoughhe's traveling.
So we's going to be talking alittle softer, but he, you know,
75% of it is showing up andQuentin's showing up even though
he's traveling.
So we're going to give him an Aplus on that.
So thank you for doing that,quentin.
So mass, tell us about mass andwhat you want to converse about
(01:19):
mass, mental mass, et cetera.
Arthur.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I've kind of realized it's a much bigger
subject than meets the eye.
So when we do the um, studytech, we're taught about the
absence of mass, and so we dothe clay demos to create mass um
, and then and then recently Ihad a little life situation pop
up and you gave me a bit ofhomework around something I
(01:45):
should be having more controlover, which included a clay demo
.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, Should we.
If you don't want to, we don'thave to, that's fine Look.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't mind discussing it All right.
So this is it.
So I have to reduce mycigarette smoking and so john
gave me an um uh, clay demo, anassignment to do, to create a
clay demo on the benefits ofsmoking.
And so of course you know thatthat in itself has given me a
lot of thought.
(02:20):
How do you create somethinglike that out of plasticine?
And then I thought a lot aboutit, because then we get
situations in life where we getunintentional mass added to us
through situations we have anenergetic mass that comes on.
So now we've got two approachesWe've got an unintentional mass
(02:40):
being delivered to our bodythat we accept, and then we've
got intentional mass to try andunderstand something, and I'm
guessing they both havedifferent weights.
But then I thought what aboutactually taking it a step
further and creating actualintentional mass?
Right, people do like um, umdream boards or, you know,
(03:03):
architects will do models of abuilding um to show, to show
mass.
So it's not a new topic, butI'm curious to see what the
scientology perspective isaround mass itself.
And how big is the topic reallyas outside of just the learning
and outside of, say, just thetraumatic past experiences um,
(03:26):
how big of a topic actually, isit?
How can you use it?
How can you use it?
You know, god created man fromclay, right?
You know what I mean?
He made the first clay figurinebefore he put life into it.
So that was an intentionalcreation.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
He did a clay demo.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That's right.
So how could we use this topicto create mass?
Outside of you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Interesting.
It's an interesting topic andit is.
That is very interesting.
Wow, it's a huge topic.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
go ahead, quinn.
So it's interesting because,even as you're talking about it
now and you use these examplesof um clay, demo and stuff like
that, which I think is is a verygood gradient to understanding
and working with intentionalmass, as you called it, and
mocking something up, isinteresting because I've always
(04:30):
looked at it as a mental thing,right, and it's something where
back years ago it was probablyback gosh, maybe 15, 20 years
ago now I used to do this thingcalled pop and I would snap my
finger, I'd go pop, pop and popstood for producing on purpose,
(04:50):
right, producing on purpose POV.
And so if I saw a car that Iliked, or if I saw a person that
I wanted or something like that, I'd be like pop, oh, I popped
that, you know like that, and Iwould kind of mock it up, if you
will, for myself.
So if it's somebody else's car,and I'm fine with that, but if
(05:12):
it's somebody else's car and Iwanted it or something like it,
I would mock it up for myselfand I would create the mass for
me, like it would be mine, right, it would be mine, right, it
would be mine.
And I wasn't dependent upon thematter M-A-T-T-E-R.
I wasn't dependent upon thematter in order to have it, if
(05:35):
that makes sense.
So to me, that's how I'vealways kind of liked it.
It was something that, witheverything, really, how I've
always kind of liked it, it wassomething that, with everything,
really, you mock it all up,right, this is all you're making
, right, and it's allimagination, if you will, that
you're making anything in yourlife, good, bad or indifferent.
(05:56):
And so, yeah, I think this is areally good topic to have for
us as Scientologists, where wewant to, like, create something
different for ourselves, just adifferent experience for
ourselves in life.
Um, so let's, let's, let's talkabout, let's get some mass on
this well, because I gotthinking more about it as well.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So what's the idea of of creating clay demos to help
you understand?
Yeah, it's to createunderstanding.
And so how many obstacles do wehave in life that we can
exactly as you were saying, wecan naturally create that mass,
like we all have abilities tonaturally create.
Let's say we have 100 things wecan create mass.
(06:37):
We could probably naturallycreate, say, 50 of those, but
what about those 50 that westruggle with, that we want
those, but what about those 50that we struggle with, that we
want?
You know, could it be as simpleas making a demo to really to
really apply those things thatwe struggle with, you know, like
for me to stop smoking, forexample?
Create a clay demo and as I'mcreating, things will start
(07:00):
evolving in my being and I'llcreate a new form of energy
within me and a new way ofthinking as I'm molding.
At the same time, myunderstanding will shift and
I'll have realizations while I'mdoing it.
And so what if we took it, say,other struggles, like, say,
money struggles, for example,how would you create a clay demo
to really put in anunderstanding of what money is
(07:25):
or what relationships shouldlook like according to you, um,
so on, and so on, and so on,like you could really take this
to quite a new level, I reckonright, if it's not already that
way well, it is, and we have to,uh, roll back to about 1951,
(07:45):
1952, with the scientology anddianetic axioms and I'm going to
just visit the ones that applyto this, but it's, it's going to
be axiom 11, which is thestates of being, isness, alter
isness, not isness as isness.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So if something reads on a meter, anything that
doesn't read on a meter won'trun as a process.
The reason why the meter readsand Quentin is on his solo
course right now and he's justright on the precipice of of the
meter issues what's happeningis.
That's why it's important,that's why I said that q is if
(08:33):
it's reading, there's adisagreement there.
That disagreement that shows upBecause it is an alter is
Because if it wasn't showing up,there wouldn't be anything
there to run because there's nomass.
(08:54):
And so it shows up andmanifests on the meter as a
small fall, fall long, fall,long fall, blow down or, in some
cases, an instant FN, dependingon what you're auditing
Dianetics or Scientology.
So, in that wise, if you havesomething that you misunderstand
, on course let's say it's aword.
(09:15):
Did I say something you didn'tunderstand?
Artie?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, no, no, I'm just going to the tech dictionary.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay.
So, in that wise, when you havea misunderstood word, what's
happening?
When you have a misunderstoodword, there's an alter isness
going on there, there's adisagreement, there's mental
mass being created becausemisunderstood words or
disagreements, even if you don'thave a misunderstood word,
(09:44):
because sometimes you can readsomething and go wait, wait,
what what's being said there?
You might understand all of thewords that are being said in a
sentence or a paragraph, but youcan't quite put your finger on
what LRH is trying to say.
For one reason or another therecan be many, but what you need
(10:04):
to do is either clear the wordsand make sure that you have a
total understanding of them,because what you're doing when
you're clearing a word and it'sthe exact same definition of
clear when a person is clear,they no longer have their wait
for it reactive mind Okay.
Now when you're clearing a word, it reactive mind Okay.
(10:28):
Now when you're clearing a word, that word is a portion of the
reactive mind.
Until you understand it fully,it goes from an alter is-ness to
an as-is-ness as you clear theword.
As-is-ness means clearing.
You're getting rid of that massNow, by extension.
You're getting rid of that massNow, by extension.
Already, situation with thebenefits of smoking or doing any
(10:50):
type of clay demo.
Lrh approached this from theviewpoint of clay table clearing
.
This is what's done on the Keyto Life course LRH's version
Clay table clearing, clay tableclearing.
So if you can put something inclay completely, you can, as is
the situation, just like you canwhen you're clearing a word,
(11:12):
and sometimes you might need todo it over and over and over
until you get a cognition or arealization.
A cognition, along withtypically a floating needle and
very good indicators with theperson, means that that has
keyed out.
We're not looking for a key outwith clay table clearing.
(11:34):
We're looking for an erasure ofwhatever mass is being created,
because for it to persist,there has to be a lie behind it.
Anything to persist has to havean alter, is off of it, and if
(11:54):
you can spot that fully and gookay, here it is poof you have
an erasure.
You might as well be doingDianetics in getting erasure.
Scientology is a key out.
Dianetics is an erasure.
Clay table clearing is also anerasure, because what you're
doing to get anything to ceaseto persist, you have to mock it
(12:17):
up on top of itself.
If you have a headache, put aheadache there and the headache
will go away.
Okay, now, that only works tothe degree that you match it.
You duplicate it.
So clay table clearing is yougetting yourself to put it into
the physical universe and thechanges can be nothing short of
just bloody miraculous, becauseyou're putting it on top of it,
(12:41):
going aha.
There it is, I've seen peoplego ahead qu.
There it is.
I've seen people go ahead,quentin.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, finish your flow.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I've seen people who have done definitions of word on
key to life.
My former girlfriend spent ayear full-time a year full-time,
10 to 10, doing the definitionsthat need to be done on a clay
table, clearing on key to life.
It can take that long for somepeople in some circumstances.
(13:11):
That is not typical, but thatgoes to show you how far the
understanding has to come for aperson to get an as-is-ness.
Typically it might take acouple iterations of those clay
representations to get ithandled until you get an
as-is-ness.
Now.
There were extenuatingcircumstances in that, so don't
(13:32):
worry, you're not going to be onClay Table for a year to our
listeners if you do something.
But if you've got a problem,whether it's a body problem or
it's a problem in life, you haveto use clay table in order to
get an as isness.
If short of anything else, thisis something you can.
(13:52):
You can do, okay, because ifyou, if you, understand
something, you can put it inclay.
If you don't understandsomething, you can't put it in
clay.
And that's when the coursesupervisor, your twin, comes up
and goes I don't see it.
And they're like well, whatdon't you see?
It's all no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't tell me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Show me, that's what lies so let me just jump in
because because this is so goodfor a number of different
reasons.
So you know, I'm from Alabama,right, and you got to talk plain
to me, right, and so I kind oflike to kind of simplify things
in such a way where, think abouthow we speak and how many times
(14:36):
have we got into a disagreement?
You talked about thesedisagreements that happen in the
mind, disagreements that happenin the mind.
How many times have we gotteninto a disagreement with
somebody or whatever, and you'dbe like God, this feels so heavy
.
Or you're in a relationship andyou want the relationship to
feel loving and light andwonderful, but it's like, oh,
this is feeling so heavy.
What is that?
(14:57):
What is the heavy, right,that's?
the mass, that's the mass right.
And so naturally, almost, wekind of get into this place
where we recognize thatsomething is being added onto
this.
This is not how it's supposedto be, there's some kind of
(15:18):
alter.
Is this happening here?
And I don't like it, damn it.
And I don't like it, damn it.
And you kind of get this wholething where it's like even in
our regular day-to-day which iswhy I love Scientology, because
it shows you, it helps youunderstand what's really going
on.
But even in our regularday-to-day we feel the heaviness
(15:42):
of stress and of whatever'sgoing on in our jobs or what's
going on in our financial livesor whatever.
And all of these are thingsthat's happening, right?
So axiom number three whenJonathan brought up axioms,
axiom number three says space,energy, objects, form and time
are the result of considerationsmade and or agreed upon or not
by the static and are perceivedsolely because the static
(16:06):
considers it can perceive them.
So catch this.
So money matters.
Let's look at your money, let'slook at your finances for a
second, because you know I likemoney.
And so when we're looking atfinances and people start to
worry about finances, right,People start to worry about
(16:26):
whether or not I have enough, orwhether or not it's going to be
enough, or whatever, whatever.
And the reason why it stressespeople out almost to the point
of exhaustion and or demise isbecause money can be very as a
particle, it's just aconsideration.
Money is just a consideration,but it's so closely connected
with people's survival that theylook at a lack of or less than
(16:50):
money as a survival decrease.
This is interesting.
So I have less particles, youcan call it a paper bag, you can
call it anything.
Right, I have less particlesand I survive less.
This is the thought right.
But we understand that thesethings are only the result of
considerations per.
(17:11):
Axiom three and then axiom fivesays energy consists of
postulated particles in space.
So if you go in and you startmocking this up, if you go in
and you start creating thisworry, this angst, this anxiety,
this whatever stuff, it getsreally heavy on you and it can
interrupt what you're trying todo as a being.
(17:32):
Get this.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Now it it.
We're going to have to explainit when you finish.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
No, we're on it because it becomes so heavy to a
person which I know exactlywhere you go with this GPM but
it becomes so heavy on a personthat they can start to create
(18:02):
their own tug of war withthemselves.
We call it self-sabotage attimes, right?
They kind of start to sabotagethemselves.
They start to sabotage theirown desires, their own goals,
their own objectives.
They start to sabotagethemselves.
This happens over and over andover again.
Now, when Jonathan said well,okay, if you can duplicate
something you used about clay,if you can duplicate something
(18:22):
so entirely that it, as is theproblem, is no longer a problem,
right, think about this.
You put it on top of anything.
Now, I do this a lot inrelationships, right, I do this
a lot in relationships where youhave a disagreement with your
2D, right, with yourrelationship, and then start to
(18:43):
like, actually mirror thatperson, right, you start to
mirror them, right, and whatends up happening is and what I
do is I also increase affinity.
So there's this thing where yousay, um, the rule is to argue
head to head, like to argue headto head, so you put your
forehead against your 2d'sforehead and you continue the
(19:03):
argument what were you sayingwhat?
And what you'll notice is youcannot argue with the person
when you're duplicating them.
It just doesn't argue, itdoesn't feel like an argument
anymore, it actually becomeslaughable.
And so you put your headstogether and you continue the
(19:23):
discussion just like this and wedo not move until we work it
out right.
What happens is you'reduplicating that person so much
that it the argument as is right.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, that, and that also goes with one of the one of
the axioms is is the highestaffinity that you can have is to
occupy the same same space yesit's the same, it's the.
It's the same thing.
So I gotta be careful what Isay in a public podcast because
I don't wanna give away anyspoilers on the bridge.
(19:54):
But the thing is, is whatyou're doing there in that
situation, or what you're doingwith clay table processing, is
you're basically saying to theperson how do you do that?
Whatever it is Okay.
And it said you know thedefinition of a clear is a being
(20:17):
who no longer has their ownreactive mind.
But he goes on to say shortlyafter that, when you're getting
onto the solo course, in thematerials that are given to the
pre-OT, you're not a pre-clearanymore, now you're a pre-OT.
He also says that a clear canmock up a reactive mind
(20:39):
unwittingly, because it's sortof like you had an itch and it's
healed, and then you startscratching that area and you
start mocking up that problemagain.
And I'm being very rudimentaryin this and that's something you
have to be careful of is athetan gets what they postulate.
(21:00):
What are you postulating?
Okay, how is it that cigarettesare good for you?
Show me that.
How is it that your lumbosis ispersisting?
How is it that your lumbosis ispersisting?
Okay, you're the one putting itthere.
So if you put it in clay on topof it, guess what?
You've created an as-is-ness,you've butted your forehead up
(21:21):
to your problem that you putthere in the first place the
issue that you want to handle byas-is-ing it and putting it in
clay, just like that.
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I didn't hear any of that.
Can you say that all again?
It just cut out while you weresaying all that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, okay.
So what I was saying is thatwhen you, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Right, because you do mock up this stuff and you do
create your own, your posturestick as you kind of get higher
and higher and it just makes somuch sense.
Perfect example.
This might relate to a lot ofpeople listening have you ever
been somewhere?
I don't know, I'm in thePhilippines, so I'll just use
(22:04):
this but have you ever beensomewhere and you see some ants?
And you see the ants and youstart think they're crawling on
you and so you, you, you'reshaking your leg, you're shaking
stuff out, you, you, you feelit crawling on your legs or
whatever.
Whatever it's, they're nottouching you, the ants are just
(22:25):
walking over there, and yet youcan kind of start feeling the
creepily crawlies, the creepilycrawlies on your leg, stuff like
that.
It's such an interestingphenomenon that you're actually
making this thing happen.
You're making it happen andit's all for you.
So, as we deal with this ideaof mass, what ends up happening
(22:46):
is that many people don't.
Maybe they do, I don't know,but do you really realize how
much you're making your lifeharder?
Do you really realize how muchyou're actually creating your
own problems, goals problems,math?
You're actually creating yourown problems for the purpose of
(23:09):
trying to solve them.
You're mocking up your ownproblems.
So I got, I got to fix it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, dayton's got to have a game.
It's just the differencebetween are you playing a game
you don't want to play becausethat's the only game you have to
play, or, after you go clear,you realize okay, this is the
game that I am playing and Idon't want to play this game.
Obviously, I created it and Idon't want to play this game.
(23:35):
Obviously I created it and Idon't want to play it.
I want to play another game.
So you have to look at it andgo okay, this is not a game I
want to play.
I'm going to play this gameinstead.
But in some cases you have toget the as is-ness of it and
look at it.
And the microcosm on this, whenyou're doing clay
representations or a clay demois is the course supervisor one
of the students that checks youout and says now, looks at the
(23:58):
label and says, no, I don't seeit okay.
So what do you?
What do you immediately get?
Go into defense mode.
you mock up a resistance youmock up a goals, problems, mass,
mini in size and go what is itthat you don't see?
But see?
The thing is is, if thesupervisor or the twin that's
(24:21):
checking you out can't see it,it's what?
It's not there, okay, and soyou're ridging up on it going,
well, okay, and so you'reridging up on it going, well,
it's, it's there, don't you seeit?
No, because if somebody elsecan't see it, it's not there,
and I hope our listeners getthis is you have to create that
(24:42):
perfect, as is this, so that theperson checking you out can see
it.
If they can't see it, if itisn't obvious, it isn't an
as-is-ness.
That's the whole point.
Now, this is the difference.
This is mass, this is physicaluniverse mass that you're using
(25:03):
to get an as-is-ness, as opposedto you looking at a mental
image, picture or aconsideration.
What have you in auditing,where all it is is it's
conceptual, it's not mass per se, it's just in your head.
There may be a pictureassociated with it, there may be
feelings, there may besignificance, whatever, but
that's mass as well.
But when you put that in thephysical universe, there is no
(25:25):
bigger crunch that occurs thanwhen you actually see that in
the physical universe becauseyou're creating it perfectly on
top of itself.
However long it takes, howevermuch you ridge up on it, if
you're ridging up on it, you'renot looking at it for the way
that it truly is.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
That's why it persists and, and that's why
auditing.
That's why auditing is sovaluable, because it gets you
and the auditor, the auditorgets you to keep looking at the
situation from so many differentviewpoints, different
perspective, different ways oflooking around.
What do you see, what do youhear, what do you smell?
(26:03):
What is this?
However, it works right.
You keep looking at it from somany different ways that you
totally recreate this.
You're recreating it, you'reputting it in on top of itself,
you're duplicating it, and itcan therefore have it erases,
which, in dynamics, it erases,and it does not have force with
you anymore.
This is why auditing is sovaluable, because you're not
(26:27):
just talking about it.
And oh, this is what happenedwith my mama.
Oh, and how did you feel aboutthat?
Well, I just didn't really feelgood about it.
And oh, this is what happenedwith my mama.
Oh, and how did you feel aboutthat?
Well, I just didn't really feelgood about it.
You know, she just really mademe mad.
You know that ain't he gonna donothing?
Right, because there's me I didit.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, there's something there that is left
uninspected, you know, and andlet's just take it.
Let's just take it to a littlebit more of a reductio ad
absurdum, but it is reality thatyou go out into the world and
you're like, oh, these fuckingdrivers, they just don't know
how to drive, they're pieces ofshit and they're dumbasses or
they're a maniac.
Okay, so if you're doing that,you're looking at something from
(27:07):
a certain perspective and thatis not a pro-survival
perspective, and you could say,oh well, who cares about drivers
?
No-transcript.
(27:40):
No, no, no no, it's definitelythe other driver.
A hundred percent.
But see, that's that's.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
If you don't want to look at itfor the way that it is, it
isn't going to change.
That's it.
That's all there is to it.
So, whatever it is, that'sgoing on with your interaction
with the physical universe anduntil you get onto the OT levels
(28:06):
, you're going to butt headswith the physical universe.
You're going to havedisagreements, and even on the
OT levels and this is why isbecause, even if you're OT, if
you're putting something there,you're putting something there
because you're putting somethingthere.
And when you get onto the OTlevels and this is true for me
as well if you're sitting theredramatizing about something for
(28:27):
months and months and months andmonths, I'm talking about
myself.
Long pause.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Who's putting it there?
Okay, everybody take a moment.
Everybody take a moment and go.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right, Right, Because here's the thing.
Here's the thing is it's outethics.
It's out ethics.
You might as well be puttingyourself in one of these old
torture things.
You know the box Torturedevices.
Where it has all the pointythings on it and they seal you
in and it looks like a sort of ahuman form.
(29:08):
But you're doing it to yourself, You're putting it to yourself,
You're putting it there andthat's out ethics for an OT.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
That's out ethics.
That's also why solitaryconfinement in our modern-day
prison system, solitaryconfinement, is such a
horrendous experience for a lotof people, especially people who
have their own withholds andovers, because they get put in
the hole and when they put inthe hole and when they're in the
hole they have to they dealwith them that stuff and it hits
them over and over and overagain and it's real mass.
(29:43):
I'm telling y'all it's justlike a beating.
It's just like a beating.
In fact, a therapist friend ofmine said to me because I was in
a 2D situation and there was nophysical stuff going on, but he
was like, wow, how do you dealwith these beatings?
I was like I'm not being beat.
And he said do you know thedefinition of that word?
(30:06):
Have you cleared the word beatto beat, to beat.
And when I looked and clearedthe word a beating one
definition is physical attack,but the other has.
It's just a repeated assault.
It doesn't have to necessarilybe physical.
And what my other mother usedto always say, she said a man
(30:31):
can beat a woman with his fist,but a woman can beat a man with
her mouth Right and she willbeat him over and over assault,
assault, assault, assault,assault, assault.
It's a beating.
And so when you're talkingabout this mass and you're in
the hole you're in there, you'redealing with your own demons,
as it were.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
this is hitting you just like a club, just like a
whip, just like a pooh, pooh,pooh, right, and it is not
pleasurable, right, and that'sthe thing is, when something
like that occurs and somebody'sput into prison and everything
like that, and they haven't hadanybody there to actually
communicate with them, they'vejust said, well, you're guilty
(31:08):
and this is what's going tohappen, you're going to be in
here for so many years and thatwill rehabilitate you.
No, it just makes things worse.
So who's doing the beating up?
You are.
You're doing the beating upbecause you're mocking up mental
mass.
You're buying into narratives,you're buying into situations
(31:30):
that I mean, what is a jail?
A jail is a house of baddecisions.
Somebody made a bad decisionand that's how they got there.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Okay, Everybody take a moment and go, hmm.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Right, the real question is what caused that
person to make that bad decisionto wind up in the who's gal?
That's it.
And what does it come down to?
And we've said this over and,over and over and over A
misunderstood concept, word orsymbol.
That's it.
That's it.
And if you were to rehabilitatesomeone and get that cleared up
(32:08):
Now, granted, granted, thereare such things as evil purposes
and all of that, but at thebottom of an evil purpose, same
thing.
Misunderstood concept, word orsymbol.
Because there was a priorconfusion.
Okay, this is what you handlein false purpose rundown.
There was a prior confusion.
And if you had that person, ifyou, you, you had a dump truck
(32:32):
load of clay taken to a prisonand you had core supervisors in
there and you had these guys putin clay what it was, that was
the prior confusion that ledthem to do what it was that they
did, and that they were usingsolutions to problems that were
based off of earliermisunderstoods, to problems that
(32:53):
were based off of earliermisunderstoods.
The only way to make money inlife was to sell my soul and
sell drugs to other people,because that's the only way I'm
going to get rich.
Okay, there's the priorconfusion that's.
The only way you can survive isby harming other people with
toxic substances and not caringabout the person in front of you
.
If you were to do that, youcould truly rehabilitate a
(33:15):
person just with clay tableprocessing.
Now, this podcast isn't aboutclay table processing, but it is
a very strong analog, acomparison to what it is that
you're doing in auditing whatyou're doing in life.
If you're putting something outthere as a certain way and it
is not pro-survival you're theone putting it out there in a
(33:36):
certain way which creates mass,the person creating the mass.
The mass is an alteration ofwhat truly is.
You've just convinced yourselfotherwise.
At the end of the day, this isall a thing that he does.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And when.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
What were you saying?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And this is all a.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Thing that he does.
I was just going to say I thinkit's a very powerful skill to
learn and it's a very powerfultool that you can apply in
pretty much any situation.
And the reality of that reallyhit me when you gave me the
assignment.
And it wasn't until you gave methe assignment.
(34:19):
Not only that, but in my courseas well, I've got to do another
clay demo as well, and it'sfunny because even just trying
to recreate the clay demo in mymind before I put it into clay
is a lot of work as well.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Right, what are you doing?
What are you doing in doingthat?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, you're creating the clay demo before you create
the clay demo.
And the funny thing is, rightthe moment in past when I've sat
down to do clay demos, it's notuntil I touch it and just start
playing with it that thingsreally start to emerge and like,
(34:59):
while I'm trying to concoct itin my mind.
So then I could just sit downand just smash it out, you know
30 minutes or whatever.
It's not until I actually touchit.
And then, quite often, when Istart touching it and I'm
actually pushing it,manipulating it, creating it,
that ideas really start flowingand then the concept really
(35:20):
starts opening up and then Ifind I actually make more
correct decisions once I'veactually got the clay in my hand
and as I'm molding it andpushing it and manipulating it,
the idea starts to evolve andthen the understanding begins to
evolve.
(35:41):
It's a really interesting thingbecause even just touching it
and putting your attention todoing it is when the magic
really starts kicking in.
So from my end, I've just gotto pull a finger out and stop
thinking about it and confrontthe clay demo while being in
front of the clay, notconfronting it in my mind and
(36:03):
then putting it to the clay.
You know what I mean.
It's like I'm kidding myselfand I'm just stalling the
inevitable.
Yeah, you're queuing in A, youknow what I mean.
Yeah, you're'm kidding myselfand I'm just stalling the
inevitable.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, you're queuing in A you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, you're queuing in A.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Okay, how am I going to do this?
How am I going to do this?
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
Think, think, think, think,figure, figure, figure.
Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, yes,which reminds me clay demo, the
revised clay demo, where I saidyou need to put the labels in
the clay yeah, yeah, I gottajust do that definitely.
(36:34):
Yeah, I forgot about thatanyway so, but so so.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So when you were just talking about, um, these uh,
evil purposes and misunderstoodwords, symbols and and concepts
and I noticed that when I wasdoing my, it was that kind of
was really eye-opening for me,right, it was really eye-opening
these misunderstood concepts,and that one was really
(36:59):
interesting, symbols too, butthe misunderstood concepts,
because it was.
You would go in and you wouldfind am I allowed to talk about
this?
I don't know what I'm supposedto say.
No, no, you're fine.
Am I allowed to talk about this?
I don't know what I'm supposedto say.
No, no, you're fine.
But you go in and you find thisthing that you think this is
what I'm thinking about.
This is how I respond to thiskind of situation.
(37:21):
When somebody does this, you'resupposed to do that.
Right, that's how I'm supposedto go through life.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Now I'm supposed to?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yep, I'm supposed to, and this is how I go through
life.
And so, as you're going throughyour ills and as you're going
through this thing, this process, you'd be like, oh no, that's
not how you do, that, that's nothow you run an army, that's not
how you take over a planet,that's not how you do such a
like, that's not how you do that.
You can do it a different wayand you become more aware.
(37:53):
You become more aware of howI'm kind of running on this
automatic in my life.
I'm running on this thing Likethis is when I feel stressed, I
pick up a cigarette.
When I feel stressed, I pick upa cigarette.
When I feel stressed, I pick upa cigarette.
And that's not necessarily whathas to be done, right, you
(38:19):
don't have to function that way.
And once you start to reallysee what is the misunderstood
somewhere along the line, it'slike, oh okay, and you totally
change your postulate, youtotally change your way of
operating about it.
And so I've loved, loved, lovedthe process of the grays and
the ales.
I loved it because it reallychanged how I view things.
(38:40):
Right, and what do we know whenyou change the way you look at
things, the things you look atchange and it no longer has the
same effect on you and you canactually be more causative as it
relates to these things that'shappening in our lives.
You're not just the effect ofit anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Right.
Well, it's the uninspectedthings that manifest as mass,
because there's something therethat hasn't been looked at fully
, so it persists, and that ismental mass.
And when you start to controlwhat it is, you get past clear
and you start mocking thesethings up.
Okay, you have to be able tospot mocking these things up.
(39:29):
Now, to take this as a bit of afurther extension, ned for OTs,
which is the newer OT levelsOT4 through OT7, and even back
down to OT3, you do not runDianetics and you know this from
your solo course.
You do not run Dianetics on aclear.
Okay, now the reasons, reasonsfor this, we can't really go
(39:52):
into.
But once a person is clear, youdon't want to do this because
the rest of the ot case verywell might create as a for lack
of a better word stimulus,response, creation, and when I
(40:13):
say a creation, it can be adoozy, because you're dealing
with other reactive minds otherthan your own that are still
part of your composite case.
This is why we don't runDianetics.
So LRH had to get clever andfigure out how to do this on OT3
(40:36):
in such a way that this wasn'thappening for the pre-OT.
And running the OT3, how do Isay this running the OT3 case.
So you have to be very carefulof this that even though you're
a pre-OT, this sort of thing canstill happen, and that's how
(40:57):
NED for OTs got developed, as itwas an actual remedy, was an
actual rundown to handle peoplewho had actually gone clear,
didn't know it and were stillrunning Dianetics, and so things
were being created in order tohave something to run, and this
is something LRH had to behandled on, and David Mayo
(41:21):
spotted this, figured it out andgot LRH through it to a point
to where they said, wait aminute, this is much bigger than
just a rundown and they turnedit into New Area Dianetics for
OTs.
Interestingly enough, there'sno Dianetics on New Area
Dianetics for OTs at all.
It's literally a misnomer andwe have to approach it from a
(41:43):
Scientology aspect in order toget around having to run
incidents dynamically and it's avery, very clever thing using
listing and nulling, which isthe most powerful auditing
process we have, and what is onthe L rundowns and that's all
(42:04):
there is to that, Because whenyou're doing listing and nulling
, you're evaluating for thepre-clear and it's the only
place and the only kind ofevaluation that can ever occur
in an auditing at all, and theonly way that we can do that is
if we know how to use a meterproperly and we're looking for a
(42:28):
blowdown of the needle and thetone arm going to the right.
It stays there and you get afloating needle or you get an
instant fn or a dial wide fn.
Blow down that type of a thingand that says bye, george, we've
found whatever the item is forthat pc because of what the
needle said and we'd say, okay,I'd like to indicate to you that
(42:50):
your item is pumpkins, okay,right, a what, who or why
question.
And when you're doing that,when you're doing that, what
you're doing is you're sayingthis is the item and the pre-OT
or the PC says yes, that is myitem, oh my God.
(43:11):
And so what you've done isyou've just, as is that
particular item for thatparticular who, what or why
question.
And so now you, you get anerasure.
It's just like doing a claydemo, but in concepts, okay,
yeah.
And the funny thing is is whatcan happen, and you've got to be
(43:34):
really good with listing andknowing to know this, and I
teach all my auditors this isthat sometimes this can happen
two or three times in tiers.
You give them the item and youcontinue on auditing.
I just got goosebumps, sorry.
Give them the item and youcontinue on auditing.
I just got goosebumps, sorry,you, you.
You give them the item and thena few minutes later you're
(43:55):
doing something else and theperson says you know, that item
you gave me, yeah, that that's awrong item, okay, okay, let's
go back to that.
And then what they'll realizeis that they had a couple layers
of charge.
That item cleared off the platebut yet something else bubbled
(44:17):
up to the surface and now that'stheir item and a few minutes
later it might come up again andit bubbled up to the surface.
Because you're getting thisupside-down pyramid kind of
thing going, where it's justbroadening and broadening and
broadening to where they'reas-is-ing this huge chunk of
case, mental mass that they'vecreated, and they couldn't see
(44:38):
the trees for the forest untilthey got further in and it
changed.
And the amount of case that youcan handle on the correct item,
which is a symbol that theperson is attributing to an
aberration, can change two,three times.
I've never had it happen morethan three times.
But that's what you're doing,is you're associating a symbol
mass with something and as theperson's viewpoint changes, they
(45:01):
now see oh it was this.
Oh wait, a minute.
No, it's this.
Oh wait, oh, it's this.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I'm laughing.
I'm laughing because I rememberhow this happens.
Yeah, yeah, I remember exactlyhow it happens.
Let me ask you a question,because now you don't have to be
clear to do the L's, is thatright?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
No, he says you can do it anywhere on the bridge,
but you're going to get a lotmore from the L's if you have
less junk in the trunk, so tospeak.
So your awareness is going tobe higher.
You're going to look at thingslike we were just talking about
these levels.
(45:42):
If you did the L's early on thebridge, you might get that
first layer.
Okay.
If you did the L's after gradefour, okay.
now you're down to the secondlayer and as far as I'm
concerned, and many class 12swill tell you this the best
(46:04):
gains for L10 and L12 come afterOT3 or better, or better,
because your awareness at OT3,if you look at the grade chart,
in the middle there's that chartof awareness, okay, right about
OT3 is where you're at sourceand we've mentioned this in
other podcasts.
If you can spot source, okay,where this is coming from, who
(46:26):
made this?
Okay, Now, that's a differentquestion at the bottom of the
bridge, who?
Because you're looking at itgenerally, it has a completely
different meaning at OT3, whomade this creation?
Who mocked it up?
You're obviously going to get alot more mileage, if you will,
(46:49):
out of what it is, because youcan spot the correct source.
And that's the differencebetween doing the Ls, l11,
that's fine, but you're going toget more out of it the further
you are up the bridge and youcan always go back and revisit
it if need be.
We could always go back andcheck your L11 and continue on,
(47:10):
and if there's something thereto run and it reads well, then
obviously there's something thatneeds to be done.
But the further along you are,the deeper it's going to go for
you to get more case gain out ofit basically.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, this is fantastic and I really
appreciate you, art, forbringing this up as it relates
to mass and masses that happenintentionally or unintentionally
somewhat.
See, some places where even forme in my 2d place, like you
(47:53):
there, there is a phenomena ofmocking up problems for the
relationship to try to beat toprove that this relationship is
viable.
Have you ever seen that thatbefore?
Like where it's like, yeah,like something comes up and like
(48:15):
, why are we, why are we arguingabout this?
And then at the end of it, oh,there's an old song break up to
make up.
That's all we do.
You break up the makeup and yougo through this stuff in
relationships because it's likeI want to prove that this
relationship is supposed to behere, I want to prove that this
(48:36):
relationship is supposed toendure and all this stuff like
this.
And ain't nobody got time forthat?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, right, well, it's the same thing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
It's the same thing.
On the first dynamic, if youthink about it, yeah, you've got
to prove to yourself this andyou've got to prove to yourself
that.
But the thing is, the thingsthat you're trying to prove is
your rightness, and thatrightness may not be the right
thing, but it's something thatyou're holding on, you're
(49:08):
putting there, I am right, I amright.
I am right.
Well, those are servicefacsimiles and sometimes you may
have to handle servicefacsimiles on the OT levels.
With the OT case, it doesn'ttake very long to run and I'm
not going to get into what it isor who it is that you're
running, but sometimes you gotto run that because that
(49:31):
rightness is a mental mass thatsays this is this way.
I'm going to prove it's thisway.
Therefore it is that way.
How wonky is that?
And it doesn't have to be thatway.
You're putting it there, sayingthere is a big, is a big, huge
concrete block in the middle ofthe highway.
(49:52):
I can't get around.
Well, who's putting theconcrete block there in the
first place?
right that's it, yeah, yeah,that's it, yeah.
But you spit, you sputter andyou say, well, I don't want to
do this clay demo, this is toohard.
This doesn't make any goddamnsense to me.
Why do I have to do this overagain for the fifth time?
(50:12):
That's the concrete block in themiddle of the road that you're
unwilling to sit there and takea look at because you might have
to do something differently.
You might have to takeresponsibility for the fact that
you're going to have to do morein order to do what it is that
you want to do.
And at the end of the day, youhave to ask yourself did I do
(50:33):
everything I could?
If I didn't, there's somethingthere that's preventing me from
doing everything I could.
Those are the concrete blocksin the roadway.
You put that in clay, you lookat it in auditing, you confront
it and you look at the source ofthe stuff.
And when you see the source ofit, it just goes poof, yeah,
(50:55):
poof.
That's all that this is, andthat's why auditor plus pc is
greater than the pc's bank.
But in arthur's case, this is athing that he has to put in
clay himself and not q a with it, and I'm not calling you out or
throwing you under the busalready at all, I'm just saying
(51:16):
it's it, we, we all have, we allhave that
right because I mean, let's lookat it cigarettes, uh, junk food
, whatever these are things thatwe have convinced ourselves
that are havingness.
(51:37):
Overts are havingness.
What do you do when you pull aperson's overts in a
confessional?
At the end of it you runhavingness.
Why?
Because those overts are a massthat they've created and said
look at all these pretty littlemarbles I have, these are my
marbles.
Okay, but those marbles arefucking toxic because you put
(52:00):
them there and you use them asstable datums that are not real
stable datums.
They're alter is that you'reusing that are causing you to go
left or right instead ofstraightforward Get rid of the
marbles, confront them, viewthem as they are, either in clay
or in session, or just sittingdown and going okay, I'm going
to just write this shit out.
(52:20):
Okay, how do I do this?
Short of that, that's what youneed to do, and if you've got
any back off on it, it's justlike when you're in a solo
session and you're a soloauditor to the degree that you
don't want to go in session isto the degree that you have to
go in session.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
That you need to go in session, right.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
That's it.
Any back off at all is anon-confront.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, I love the way LRH uses language, and even to
this degree that we're talkingabout here with mass, because
when you really think about it,mass is the building blocks of
matter, right, it's theparticles, right.
(53:04):
And so when LRH is talkingabout this, at first you're not
really thinking about it as athing, right?
You're really thinking about itas a thing, right?
You're not thinking about it asa thing, and yet I feel it.
Yet it's heavy for me, yet itcauses me worry and angst and
anxiety and feelings and allthis stuff like this.
So something is there, and sothe way LRH kind of packaged it
(53:27):
to help us understand it better,that this mental mass, what
it's doing in us, to us, thismental mass that's happening,
that we're doing it to ourselves, actually it actually can
manifest, it can become a thing,whether it be in your body,
(53:48):
whether it be in your finances,whether it be in your body,
whether it be in your finances,whether it be in your
relationship, whether it bewhatever, it can become a thing.
And then you have, you know,all kinds of manifestations that
come out of that.
But I just I think it's reallyinteresting to understand this
and I think that anybodylistening to this podcast,
should definitely listen to itagain, right, because there's a
lot of data here.
(54:08):
There was a lot of data in thispodcast.
You should definitely listen toit again, right, because
there's a lot of data here.
There was a lot of data in thispodcast.
You should definitely listen toit again.
And you know, get started, getstarted clearing some of this
stuff out.
Get started I mean, uh, evenwith it, with you are and it
relates to the smoking thinglike, like that's right, just do
, just doing this to totally asis that problem right, to
(54:34):
totally erase that problem.
How life-changing could that beright?
How life-changing would it beto get rid of a problem that we
ourselves mocked up for whateverreason?
And now I see it, I got it andit no longer has any effect on
me.
This is such a really, reallygood way of starting our journey
(54:55):
into this, and so, yeah, Ithink it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Now we only got a couple minutes left, but I wanna
make a point, and we didanother podcast on this over a
year ago.
When you're dealing with thingslike telepathy or you're
dealing with you as a being okay, the only way you can be
telepathic is if you've actuallynot convinced.
Not convinced, but you know youdon't need the physical
(55:25):
universe for one goddamn thing,and the only reason you can't be
telepathic and the only reasonyou can't feel, perceive and
know is because you've droppeddown into the physical universe
and have to have a series ofvias and have that confirmation
bias.
If I can't see it, I don'tbelieve it.
(55:47):
That's the only thing holdingyou back from being ot, okay,
and that's that's the physicaluniverse kicking in on you and
going believe me, I am solid, Ihave to be validated, real, I am
real, feel me I.
You know, I get these people newon, new on the bridge, and
(56:08):
they're like you know, I'm notfeeling any difference and I'm
like well, there's your problemright there, but you can't tell
somebody that, you can't tellthem that they have to learn
that themselves, and that's whatLRH was doing.
Is it's like no, you big dummy,you big dumb, thetan, you don't
(56:30):
have to have that viewpoint.
Well, if I can't feel it, thereisn't any change.
Well, that's because you've gotyourself convinced that you
need a body to perceiveeverything.
Okay, so pick up the cans andlet's keep going.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yeah, and that is really about a becoming right.
It's about a becoming.
I'm becoming different, I'mbecoming more, I'm becoming
something better.
As it relates to where I wasbefore, I'm becoming, and I
(57:04):
don't know how I describe it nowas a feeling, but in the
process I wouldn't say it was afeeling, I wouldn't feeling it,
I wouldn't know.
I would enjoy sessions with you, jonathan, I would enjoy your
sessions, but I felt like me, Ifelt more me.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
That's exactly it.
You're just trying to returnthe person back to native state,
where they're not having to go.
Okay, what's the temperatureoutside?
What's the weight of this?
How much pressure am I feelingon this?
Is my dick bigger?
No, my dick's not bigger.
The auditing must not beworking.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
That's a hidden standard and that's the funny
thing because people have aperception outside of themselves
when really it's just becomingyourself which can be really
foreign to people, likeincredibly foreign.
Yeah, yeah, let me introduceyou to you.
Yeah, and you can't just sayokay.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
I'm just going to introduce you to you and the
only thing I can do is that andGod, we mentioned this in so
many podcasts is you get theperson to realize where they're
viewing their pictures from.
And if they're in valence,they're looking at some some
pleasure moment from a distanceand they're looking at it going.
Wait a minute, why am I seeingthis three feet in back of my
(58:23):
head or off to the side by 20feet?
Well, that's because that's you.
I'd like you to meet you right,grab.
Grab the cans please.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Right, this is beautiful.
This is absolutely beautiful,and I said this to you before I
think offline, Jonathan but itreally is a loving work.
It's a loving work to help aperson to see themselves more
clearly, help a person to reallyfully actualize, and yeah, it's
(58:54):
a very, very powerful thing todo for people, and so kudos to
that, kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yeah, just be a being .
That's all you need to do.
Trust yourself, trust theprocess and believe us when we
say, when you get there.
When you get there, you willfrighten yourself to the degree
that you are making postulatesand then they occur instantly in
the physical universe.
(59:19):
Okay, it's not about what youget, it's not about what you
want, it's not about what youhave, it's that you are.
Everything else will follow ifyou become yourself and you know
yourself and you trust yourperceptions and don't second
guess yourself.
That's what this is all about.
(59:39):
So we hope you enjoyed thispodcast for Arthur.
We'll see you Wednesday foranother podcast Take care,
namaste.
And we another podcast Takecare, namaste, and we love you.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
Bye-bye, peace, bye-bye, thank you, thank you.
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