April 13, 2025 • 54 mins
What if the very way you think about freedom is keeping you trapped? In this mind-expanding episode, we explore one of the most profound philosophical shifts in modern thinking: the difference between "freedom from" and "freedom to."
Our journey begins with a startling observation from L. Ron Hubbard about how our concept of freedom fundamentally changed during the Roosevelt era, creating what he called "a perfect trap." When we're constantly trying to escape something—poverty, pain, difficult relationships—that very thing persists in our consciousness through our resistance to it. This explains why lottery winners often return to poverty and why we find ourselves repeating painful patterns despite our best efforts to avoid them.
Through fascinating explorations of Scientology's axioms on change and alter-is-ness, we unpack how we create our reality through continuous alteration and denial. Quentin shares a powerful personal story of breaking free from a pattern of abusive relationships through auditing, demonstrating how identifying hidden postulates can release persistent unwanted conditions.
The episode features two practical processing exercises that listeners can use to transform their relationship with change. These exercises reveal how our attempts to change ourselves and others shape our experiences in ways we rarely recognize. The most liberating insight? As spiritual beings, we are the constant in our lives—everything else may change, but our essential nature remains.
Ready to shift from the trap of "freedom from" to the creative power of "freedom to"? This episode provides the philosophical foundation and practical tools to transform how you approach change forever. Get your auditing, move up the bridge, and become cause over change rather than its effect.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi and welcome to another AOGP Scientology Outside
of the Church podcast.
This is season 10, episode 32.
I'm here with Quentin Stroudand Arthur Mudakis and this is
going to be sort of a extensionof our last episode on games.
We're going to talk aboutchange and freedom from and
(00:26):
freedom to.
Quentin's already snickeringthis was my idea, but he's
really psyched about this.
So we're going to talk aboutchange, alter business, freedom
from and freedom to Quentinwould you like to jump into the
(00:51):
deep end of the pool?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, you know, I snickered because, as we were
preparing for this podcast, Iwas getting so many wins, like
so many gains, just reading someLRH material and just really
understanding what is actuallyhappening in this world.
And I'm talking about, you know, macrocosmically and
microcosmically, what is goingon.
(01:14):
And when we talk about change,we're talking about alteration,
we're talking aboutalter-is-ness is how we talk
about in Scientology andobviously, in order to survive,
in order to persist on planetEarth, and the whole bit, that
change must occur.
Things got to go.
(01:39):
You know, start change, stop.
You start life, life goesthrough all these changes.
You grow up, you get older, youknow, whatever, whatever, and
then you stop.
Apparently, right, theappearance is that you stop.
The idea here is that when we'refocusing in on change, we're
really trying to understand whatis going on in life.
(02:00):
Right, because it's all that,from the cradle to the grave,
it's all changing, it's allchanges, it's all alterations
that are happening around us,moment by moment, day by day,
time by time, as it were, andall of these things are
happening.
And so, really, the reason whyI get so excited about this
conversation is because we'retalking about life in total,
(02:23):
from the cradle to the grave,life in total from the cradle to
the grave, from the experiencesto experiences, and we're going
to really kind of put this in abig pretty package for you that
are listening and you couldunderstand what the is going on
in your life.
That's why I want to open thisup.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And that starts out with freedom from and freedom to
.
Lrh observed that over time,there was a shift basically in
the meaning of freedom,particularly during Roosevelt's
era, when the concept changed tofreedom from.
(03:07):
Endless desire for freedom fromis a perfect trap.
It's fear of all things, and heemphasized that freedom from is
only beneficial when there's aplace to be free to.
In other words, focusing solelyon escaping or avoiding
something doesn't lead to truefreedom, which is change.
So he suggested that realfreedom exists basically among
barriers and that a balancebetween freedom and barriers is
crucial for happiness.
He viewed life as a gameconsisting of freedoms, barriers
(03:31):
and purposes, where therelationship which is games
between these elements needs tobe in harmony.
So basically, he's sayingfreedom from is showing
progressive steps to move anyonetowards the state, freedom from
is showing progressive steps tomove anyone towards the state,
and he also basically emphasizedthe importance of freedom too
(03:51):
as well, often referring toconjunction with liberty or
outspokenness.
So basically, true freedom,according to Ron, is about
having the ability to choose andact, not just about escaping
from something, which is part ofchange.
Hmm, yes.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
So a massive amount of confront.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah basically Understanding that if you're
just having this escapism kindof viewpoint which I think I
love how you articulated that ifyou have this escapism kind of
viewpoint, then you're neverreally free from the thing
(04:34):
because you're constantly tryingto escape it.
You're constantly trying to getI don't want to live like this,
I don't want to be here, Idon't want to do that and you're
constantly trying to get out orget away from, even when
seemingly you're already out ofit.
Have you ever had theexperience where it's like it
could have been an argument thatyou had with somebody in your
life or whatever, whatever?
(04:54):
And even though that thing hasgone on and it's passed, and
it's 20 years ago, and yetyou're still holding on to that
experience and trying to getaway from that person or that
thing or that experience.
It's like, ah, I don't want todeal with that, I don't want to
deal with they miss, I don'twant to deal with their
confusion, I don't want to dealwith their problems.
And it's like, well, hold on asecond.
That was 20 years ago, like,could that have been resolved by
(05:18):
now?
Could that have been anon-thing anymore?
And yet we're constantly tryingto escape that thing because
you're not really free of it,you see.
And so this is really good,because when you're getting
freedom from this idea offreedom from, you're really
trying to get away from thething which is persisting.
(05:41):
Get this which is persisting inyour universe, which is
persisting in your universe, inyour mind, in your awareness, in
your consciousness.
It is persisting there and soyou're constantly trying to get
away from it.
Let me say this I've seen thishappen, even when it relates to
money and poverty.
Right that?
Have you ever seen somebody whomight've won the lottery or got
(06:04):
some money coming in orwhatever, and they blow right
through it?
Right, because they're tryingto get away from this idea of
poverty, they're trying to getaway from lack and limitation,
and yet they keep trying to,like, put themselves back in it
because it's actually persistent, right, you see?
and so it's not just.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's not just one dimensional but, and why is it
persistent?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
well that, because it's something that they're
holding on to and that theyhaven't been able to fully get
freedom from and the and freedomto something, which is where
the change comes in.
How do you change your life?
How do you change yourexperience?
How you change your life.
How do you change yourexperience?
How do you change your reality?
How do you change your statusin life?
How do you change your positionin life?
(06:49):
These things are what we'regoing to talk about today.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
All right, you're dealing with an alter isness on
top of an alter isness on top ofan alter isness.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Jeez, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of incompletion
there.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so it kind of reminds me of the Black Panther
phenomena or the Black Panthereffect, where you know you could
tiptoe around it, you canpretend it's not there, you
could submit to it, and I lovethe final outcome You've got to
attack it.
You've got to attack it.
You've got to confront itBecause at least with
confronting it, at least youhave an as-is-ness, even if it's
(07:30):
a painful as-is-ness.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
At least you know what you're dealing with which
is really interesting, quentin,you had some axioms that you
thought parallel this wholething 100%.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So for me, whenever going through something and this
might help those of you who arelistening whenever going
through something, I like to goto the axioms, okay, the 57
axioms of Scientology.
I like to go to the axiomsbecause they to me, for me, it
makes total sense how he flowedthem out and how life actually
(08:09):
corresponds or kind of, is laidout using the axioms.
And so when we started talkingabout change, I was like, okay,
well, where does change happenin our lives?
What is change really about?
So I put up a couple of axiomsthat you can look into about.
So I put up a couple of axiomsthat you can look into.
We don't have to go through allof them, but some.
That really stood out was axiom13 and 14, which talks about the
(08:30):
cycle of action right, which iscreate, survive or persist and
then destroy.
And he says survival isaccomplished by alter is-ness
and not is-ness, by which isgained the persistency known as
time.
So we survive in this life byalter is-ness and not is-ness,
(08:54):
alter is-ness and not is-ness,and we do it over and over and
over and over again, and we callthis survival right.
And so something's going on inyour life and I need to change
that.
Okay, change it.
Okay, then you not is it, andyou change something, and you
not is that and you change it.
And you keep going through thiscycle of trying to make life be
(09:15):
right, which is survival.
And we do that through time, orwhat looks like or is known as
time, and all of this continuesto go on.
Well then it says I'm skippingnow to axiom 17, where he said
the static, having postulated asisness, then practices, alter
(09:38):
isness, and so achieves theappearance of isness and so
obtains reality.
So the static, the being, youright.
You've postulated isness likeokay, boom, life is I am, that I
am, you know, boom, right.
And then practices.
(10:00):
Throughout your life, throughoutyour experiences, you practice
alter isness, change, change,change, change my body, change
my job, change my life.
Throughout your experiences, youpractice alter is-ness, change,
change, change, change my body,change my job, change my life,
change my house, change my cat,change my dog, change, change,
change, right.
So you're practicing all thisalter is-ness or change, so to
achieve the appearance ofis-ness, be like yes, this is me
(10:20):
.
So all of this change happeningaround you, all this stuff
going on, all the practicing ofultra, is this, you come up with
this appearance that this is mylife, this is me, this is all
that I am, and it's not true,but it's the appearance of that
right, and then you so obtainwhat you know as your reality,
(10:45):
as reality.
This is reality for you, andwhen you look at it like this
and I'm laughing as I'm sayingit, so please forgive my
tongue-in-cheek kind of way offlowing it out but when you
really think about it like thisfreaking life is just a whole
bunch of alter businessesstacked up together.
To try to create this apparencyof what I am of is this right
(11:09):
yeah, these slow degrees ofgoing off off course.
You're making sense Like is thisis this is this real, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And then you're like how?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
did I get here?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
How did I get here?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, it's like I started out this journey.
I started out life and and I'mtalking about your entire
existence, I'm not just talkingabout, you know, when you were
born in 1943 or whatever, I'mtalking about your entire
existence.
And like you start out thisthing, it's like I'm gonna do
life and I'm gonna be somethingand I'm going to, and you start
creating all these alterations,all this, this change that you
(11:48):
postulate right, that you'repracticing it says it I think
it's an interesting word andyou're practicing these alter
businesses to try to create somesemblance of reality.
This is like matrix level stuff, right, but it's like you're,
you're, you're creating thissemblance of reality and you're
(12:08):
saying that this, therefore, ismy life, and it becomes so real
to some people you don'tunderstand what I'm saying Like
things that going on in thislife, things that happened to us
, you know, it becomes so real.
So then he goes into number 18,axiom 18, and he says the
static, in practicing not isnessbrings about the persistence of
(12:29):
unwanted existences.
Get this In practicing notisness brings about the
persistence of unwantedexistences, and so brings about
unreality.
Well, arc, think about the ARCtriangle.
Unreality, like a breakingagreements like this ain't what
(12:53):
I want, right, which includesforgetfulness, unconsciousness
and other undesirable states.
Hmm, how many of us felt likewe've been in that position
before.
Undesirable states of existence, these unwanted existences.
I don't want this.
This is not what I wanted formy life.
It's not what I wanted in thissituation.
This is not what I wanted.
But you do it by practicing,not is this, and have a stacked
(13:17):
up all these alter is this is bypracticing, alter is this?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
it's so interesting well, look at, look at that in
the context of our last podcast.
Is, you know, in the, in thecontext of games?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have.
You have all these alterbusinesses at this game and that
game and I'm going to make thisgame and that game, and you
didn't finish the game that youwere playing.
And so now you're you're likehow, how did I get in this, this
(13:45):
, this situation?
Because you have these alterismuses of games that you
started to play and then youchanged the game or you started
a new game inside of a gameyou'd already started to play
yeah, yeah and I know I knowgames upon games, right, and I
know we're talking about thiskind of like quickly and just
(14:06):
kind of throwing out all theseterminologies and stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But I want you guys to really simplify it, right, to
really simplify it so that youcan use this awareness, this way
of thinking in your life.
All of these games that we'replaying with ourselves, all of
these changes and alterinstances that we're putting and
we're practicing as a static,as a being, all of these things
(14:30):
that we're stacking up on top ofeach other.
You really can start to as-issome of this stuff.
And this is where auditingcomes in.
This is why auditing ispossible, right, with
communication and whatnot.
The reason why it's possible isbecause and the why it's is
like we want you to get auditingis because you go in and you
start as a thetan.
(14:50):
You start going in and youstart saying, oh, nope, not that
one, that's not what I want.
Nope, not I got that one.
And you start getting rid ofsome of these alter businesses
that have been persistent inyour life for so freaking long
and you start to see like, oh no, that's not, I didn't mean that
(15:12):
.
Right, I'll tell you realquickly.
I was pulling in this on my ownauditing track.
I was pulling in abusiverelationships, right.
And so I was in abusiverelationship I'm talking about
in this present lifetime,abusive relationship after
abusive relationship.
And I'm like what is going on?
And one day, sitting atPiedmont Park in Atlanta,
(15:35):
georgia, I was getting auditedby my co-auditor.
We were going back and forthDianetics and we started running
an abusive incident thathappened to me in this lifetime
and it wasn't lifting.
And so we're running it andrunning it and it wasn't lifting
and the hit and all the stuffthat happened to me and the
(15:56):
abuse and it wasn't lifting.
So my auditor says, well, isthere an earlier incident
similar to the one we'reauditing?
And I get snatched back.
I ain't going to go into all thedetails, but suffice it to say
this thing was the moststupidest, most asinine
(16:18):
postulate that I made about myrelationships a long time ago,
right.
And as soon as I cleared thatup, there was so much relief and
so much just like, oh, myfreaking God, it just came off.
(16:40):
It just came off, I don't knowhow else to say it.
And since then I've neverpulled in that kind of
experience before Again, I'venever pulled that in and it's
like I get it now.
That was probably the mostsalvific and most profound
experience I had, because I knowwhat I was mocking up, I know
(17:02):
these relationships and I'm likethis is not right, this is not
how a relationship is supposedto be, and I'm saying that to
myself.
I'm saying to myself this isnot how it's supposed to be, and
yet I keep making it be, I keepmocking it up, you see.
And so it wasn't until I wentback and I found that postulate,
that thing that said this iswhat it is Talking about
(17:25):
relationships.
And I was like, oh nope,scratch that one off the list.
And when LRH says you are anauditor, I totally got reality
on that word.
An auditor, one who listens andcomputes because you go in, and
it's almost like a freakingcalculator.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,that's an error, you know.
(17:45):
Delete, delete, delete, delete,delete.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And now it all lines up.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Well, I think we lost you, quinton, I'm sorry, can
you hear me now?
Yep, yep, I'm sorry, my littlelink cut out.
I don't know what you guys lastheard, but I was saying that
this is why auditing is such avaluable, valuable tool because
you go in and you don't have tocontinue to live this way.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It's beautiful so, arthur, do you want to do a
process?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
yeah, right now, surrounding change well, before
we do that, I looked up the wordchange and what I found really
interesting is the derivative ofthis word.
It means barter, so you'reexchanging one item for another
(18:42):
item, which is quite interestinghow it sort of fits into this.
You know, alter-easing andas-easing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You're in a barter system.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, all right.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So this is a change process.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Is it going to make me cry?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
No, no, not at all.
Here we go.
You ready?
This is from April 61, 27 ofApril 61.
Change processes you ready?
Okay, think of changingyourself, or get the idea of
(19:25):
changing yourself, or get theidea of changing yourself, okay,
okay.
Now think or get the idea ofanother changing himself.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, now think or get the idea of changing another
okay okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
what was changing the other?
It was actually actually my boybringing him up.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Okay, good, think or get the idea of another trying
to change you.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
There's been plenty of those Okay good, now think.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Or get the idea of another trying to change another
.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay, okay, good, now think or get the idea of
another trying to change another.
Okay, okay, what was it?
Um, it was two people arguingand one person was trying to get
their point across, but quiteaggressively okay, good, now
think or get the idea of notchanging yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that just kind of made me sink a little bit,
okay.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Now think or get the idea of another, not changing
himself.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, good, what was it?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
they were just stuck.
Okay, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's like they're stuck in a moment of time now
think I get the idea of notchanging another what was it?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
okay, um, I kind of went back to my boy again and
just allowing him to be him,okay now think or get the idea
of another, not changing youyeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
it's just me being me good, now I think I get the
idea of another, not changinganother.
Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
um, it was those two guys not arguing and just
enjoying their day.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Good, now think or get the idea of changing
yourself.
Okay, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It was actually nothing Just me Okay, what was
it?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
It was actually nothing, just me.
Okay.
Now think or get the idea ofanother changing himself.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It was almost like they were just putting too much
pressure on themselves.
Okay, good, now think or getthe idea of changing another.
Okay, what was it?
I didn't have to do anythingother than be me good now think
(23:00):
or get the idea of anothertrying to change you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I didn't have to do anything other than be me Good.
Now think, or get the idea ofanother trying to change you
yeah, okay, what was it?
They can't.
Thank you Now think or get theidea of another trying to change
(23:28):
another.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, Okay, what was it I?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
feel sorry for the other if they can't be
themselves.
Okay, good.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Now I think I get the idea of not changing yourself.
Oh man, I just got reallynauseous.
Okay, what was it?
Oh, it's actually making mereally emotional now.
The amount of pressure we puton ourselves is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Thank, you Think you get the idea of another not
changing himself?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
It's kind of sad that it's sad to observe somebody's
stuckness.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Good, now think or get the idea of not changing
another.
Yeah, okay, good, what was?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
it.
I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Good, now think or get the idea of another, not
changing you.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yep, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
They can't Okay.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Now I think I get the idea of another not changing,
another Not changing.
Okay, yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's just peaceful.
Thank you.
Now think you get the idea ofchanging yourself.
Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't need to, because I know what I should be
doing okay, good, think, or getthe idea of another changing
himself yes okay, what was?
It um.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
He's just educating himself good, I think you get
the idea of changing another.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Okay, okay what was it?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Nothing, I don't have to do anything.
Good Now, I think you get theidea of another trying to change
you.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Okay, what was it?
I can't.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thank you.
I think you get the idea ofanother trying to change another
.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yep, Okay what was it .
Change will only occur if theyallow it.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Good, I think you get the idea of not changing
yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, now I'm uncomfortable about that, and
the reason I'm uncomfortable forit is it's not progressive not
doing anything.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Okay, now think you get the idea of another not
changing himself.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Now, I find that sad.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
That they're not bettering themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Good, I think you get the idea of not changing
another.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Okay, I don't have to .
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Okay, good, now think or get the idea of another, not
changing you.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
They're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, think or get the idea of another, not
changing another.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
They can do whatever they want, okay, good.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
How does change seem to you now?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It's almost a dirty word.
In some ways it has itspositives, if it's in a healthy
way change for betterment.
That's a tricky questionactually, oh Mm-hmm, because I'm
(28:21):
stuck on this whole barterthing.
So in order for me to change,I've got to do something
different, whatever that may be,and then, in order to change, I
have to give something away inorder to replace it right, which
is what we were talking aboutbefore we started the process
(28:41):
yeah, yeah.
so if I want to replace certainparts of myself, I need
something to replace them with,as opposed to just thinking I'm
replacing them with unproductivethings, but unproductive for
myself, and yeah, and I thinkthat's that's the point of it,
(29:05):
isn't it like things, butunproductive for myself, and
yeah, and I think that's thepoint of it, isn't it?
Like you know, I don't need tochange anything as such, but
we're in constant change.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Right, quentin, yes, and that is change.
How about?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
that, Arthur.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
It's got me feeling reallyuncomfortable, to be honest,
Like in a good way.
In a good way.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Uncomfortable as in it's like's like man.
It can be so simple.
Um, that's what I was.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That's exactly what I was thinking too.
Yeah, it's dauntingly simpleand and that's the thing, and
that's where, like man, there'sa massive amount of altruism.
Is there a massive amount?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
massive, yeah, okay, yeah well done, okay, quentin
you up for one yeah, 100 okay,how have you tried to change
yourself?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
am I answering this or do you want me to get the
idea of it?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, you can go ahead.
This is a different set ofbrackets.
How have you tried to changeyourself?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I have tried to work out.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I have tried to educate and enlighten.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Okay, good.
How has another tried to changeyou?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
By trying to give me, the first thing that comes up
is give me things.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
By telling himself stories.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Another tried to change another by war.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay With war?
How have you tried to changeyourself?
Okay With war how?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
have you tried to change yourself?
I've tried to change myself bygrowing up, growing my body.
Good how have you tried tochange another?
I've tried to change another bycreating systems like my
business creating businesses.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
How has another tried to change himself?
Uh, through another.
He's trying to change himselfthrough um watching television.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
by producing television.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Watching television.
Okay, how has another tried tochange another by producing
television?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Good, how have you tried to change yourself?
I've tried to change myself byjournaling.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, how have you tried to change?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
another, another I've tried to change another by uh
two-way communication talking tothem okay, how has another
tried to change you?
By um telling.
Telling me a story or telling alie?
(32:42):
I guess a story.
I won't say a story, but it'slike a lie okay, how has another
tried to change himself?
Oh, I'm sorry I'm yawning,excuse me, barbie how's another
tried to change himself?
(33:05):
um, another has tried to changehimself by excuse me, pardon me.
Um, oh, another tries to changehimself by um, building a house
.
I'm seeing I'm seeing likechopping wood, but building a
house, okay, how'm seeing likechocolate wood but building a
house.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Another tried to change another by contracts and
agreements.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Good.
How have you tried to changeyourself?
By making some clear policiesand postures that work for me.
Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
How have you tried to change another?
By helping them?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
see that change is possible.
Okay, how has another tried tochange you?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
By showing me ways of doing things that are different
from what I normally do or theway I normally do them.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Okay.
How has another tried to changehimself?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
By normally do them.
Okay.
How has another tried to changehimself?
By seeking out better wisdom orbetter ideas?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Like by another, has tried to change another by
coming to the table and figuringout what works for both.
Compromise Good.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
How have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I have figured out different ways that work for me
and created my life around thoseways that work for me.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Thank you.
How have you tried to changeanother?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I have put people in key positions that help them to
make good decisions, or betterdecisions for their lives.
So I change in themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Good.
How has another tried to changeyou, changing themselves?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Good.
How has another tried to changeyou by showing me the error of
my ways at times, Okay, thathappens.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
By listening to others.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
By Good, how has another tried to change another
by oh, that's interesting.
By like moving their, movingthem through space, like by
saying, okay, come here.
Like, move here.
Like get away from there, movehere.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself, mm-hmm
.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Um, by changing my, uh,immediate environment.
Okay, how have you tried tochange another?
By um getting them to this?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
is what coming up, but getting them to do something
different with their hair, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
How has another tried to change you by?
Oh, this is interesting withsex.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Okay, they tried to change me with sex, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Change himself with.
This is what I'm seeing.
Like with pictures, like mentalimage pictures Good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
How has another viewpoint can change another
person's?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
viewpoint.
Okay, how have you tried tochange yourself?
I have given myself permissionto be good, how have you tried
to change another?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I have granted beingness to them and allowed
them to become more of who theyare, thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
How has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Um by, oh, through praise and admiration.
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
By doing the mental and physical work in order to
become better at being them.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Good.
How has another tried to changeanother?
By taking the time to reallyhear a person out and get to
some kind of agreement and ARCwith them so that, therefore,
there's no longer a disparity.
It's like they become they geton the same page, they're
(38:24):
vibrating at the same frequencyand that created the change that
was necessary.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Okay, good, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I have opened myself to being able to experience
anything.
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I have allowed myself to.
Oh, I've.
Okay, I've purposed myself,thank you.
I've purposed myself to becomea change agent like I want to
help change.
Help people change themselveswhen they're ready.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
By trying to convince me of their rightness and my
wrongness.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Okay, how has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
By trying to convince himself of his rightness and
others wrongness.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
um by, oh, by, wearing sexy clothes like
seductive, like seductive wear.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have tried to improve my smile, my teeth.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Good, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
By giving them, oh show, showing them opportunities
that could benefit them, themin their life.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
by giving me money comes up again.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Giving me money.
Okay, how has another tried tochange himself?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
By flowing something, flowing out money to get an
improvement, like going to apersonal trainer or something.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh, by being a teacher or a trainer or a coach,
by like doing the work towardstrying to help change other
people.
Okay, and how have you tried tochange yourself myself, to
change as I see fit at any givenmoment and realizing that that
(41:07):
feels right to me, for me?
Speaker 1 (41:17):
in my reality and my actuality and that feels good,
Good.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
So how do you feel about change now?
I feel that change isinevitable.
I feel that change happens allaround us at every moment, in
every part of existence andsurvival, and I feel that is
only how we perceive change andhow we receive right and
conceive of change.
That makes it, you know, Iguess, put a judgment on it.
(41:40):
So if I'm trying to helpsomebody, then that's positive
change.
If you were, If I'm trying tocontrol or manipulate somebody,
that's negative change.
And so and these are allperceptions, but it's all just
change if you really look at itfrom the basic.
Basic.
And so, yeah, change isinevitable in survival, but we
(42:00):
don't have to.
We can choose how we allowourselves to change and how we
help change others, and viceversa.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Right, artie, you had a big smile on your face.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yeah, no, I'm good, I'm good, yeah, I'm good, it's
interesting.
It's interesting going throughthat process, and then it's also
interesting observing theprocess how so?
Um, well, I was thinking manydifferent things because, like,
(42:34):
I'm coming from my immediateenvironment and where I live,
and then quentin's coming fromhis immediate environment and
where he lives, his experiencesand my experiences, and just the
way we interpret it so uniquelyand so differently, yeah, same
questions and extremelydifferent answers.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Right.
So that's how auditing works,is it gets you to take another
perspective on different flows,to get you to look at things?
Speaker 3 (43:06):
but somebody else might have completely different
answers depending on wherethey're at on the subject of
change yeah, and it wasinteresting there were so many
things quentin said that I'mlike, oh yeah, I didn't even
think of that.
That wasn't my first thought,which I thought was interesting.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You can see where the Go ahead, Quentin.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
No, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You can see where the alter-is-ness is.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
When it comes to change.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
So what's the phenomena of that one?
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
The phenomena is some sort of a cognition, you know
yeah you have a, have arealization on it.
You know, and uh, on a meter,your floating needles and vgi is
good, very good indicators.
So you know these can.
These can be run as groupprocesses as well I like.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I like the one about get the idea too, because, yeah,
because, even as as you wererunning arts, I was getting so
many like different ideas aroundit, and it's because for me you
know this is interestingbecause we talked about this
before the podcast that adefinition of power is the
ability to hold space right, tohold your space Amidst external
(44:28):
forces and other things going on, and when a being is like,
grounded and knows who they areas they're going through all
this stuff.
Change doesn't have to be scary, right, like, because the truth
of the matter is you're theconstant.
You are the constant in yourlife.
(44:48):
I don't care who you around,who you with, who your mama is,
who your daddy is, all thatother stuff.
You are the constant in yourlife.
And when you understand who youare, from time immemorial up
until now, like you get like ohwait, I haven't gone through a
lot of change.
I don't have different bodiesand different beings and
(45:09):
different hairstyles, and withthe hair that you came up with,
I cracked up laughing becauseI'm like, yeah, I guess that is
a change, right, but it's likewe don't think about how all
those things are different,window dressing, of this being
right, regardless of the body,regardless of the body,
regardless of the you know skinor the whatever, it's just
window dressing, right, and Iget to be me throughout all of
(45:33):
this and and and, like I saidbefore, like by having this
consideration about change, likeit doesn't necessarily have to
scare me.
So if I want to pick up andmove from California to Thailand
, I do that shit and it's okay,like it's just, it's like
nothing can frighten me in this,because I know that wherever I
go there, I am, you know,whatever changes happen, I am
(45:59):
still me.
In all of this and and and.
If I need to mock up some moremess, like I need to mock up a
house, or I need to mock up acar, I need to mock up this, ok,
it's just change.
You said, oh,bibbidi-bobbidi-boop, that's
like easy to me, and so thesethings don't have to frighten us
if we know who we are.
Lrh talks about security.
(46:20):
He was like the only securitythat you have is you, period,
everything else can fall away.
Everything else might go awayShit, I don't know but the only
security you have is you.
And when you know that, hey,nothing daunts you.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yep, and that's how auditing works.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
That's pretty good, yeah, well, you know it's
interesting because our art andnot to evaluate or anything, but
like some of the considerationsthere really kind of stood out
to me.
It reminded me of a lecturethat LRH gave called Alter
Isness and the Keynote of AllDestruction, and it kind of like
(47:09):
I can see how we get there.
Right, because he talks abouthow alter isness is the keynote
of all destruction, and I'm justgoing to read a quick excerpt
where he says now you getsomething like that going on.
There's practically no way toreach it with an auditing
session.
Overts, overts, overts.
(47:30):
You get the idea?
Well, this results inalteration and alter-is-ness.
The basis of destruction isalter-is-ness, and when somebody
would like to destroy you butcan't, all he can do is alter is
.
You Got the idea?
(47:51):
Oh, we see this in various waysIn Theta.
You see, here's an auditorsitting in the area and he's
doing all right and some otherauditor isn't doing all right,
so they start accumulating overagainst this auditor that is
doing all right.
The next thing, you know, theperson that's committing the
over gets madder and madder atthe auditor.
This fellow has never doneanything to, you understand, to
(48:15):
this other guy, maybe even senthim some PCs, and the more that
B does to A, the more overts,overts, overts pile up and turn
into anger, anger, anger.
You get the idea.
This is a one-man fight.
There's no other fight going onover here.
(48:36):
See, boy, it begins to looklike a cyclone is happening in
this vicinity.
This fellow goes to bed atnight and bites the pillow, you
know, screams to himself andwhile auditing the PC, something
like that lets out a yipsoccasionally.
That is alter isness,destruction as we know it in war
(49:00):
or in anything else.
Alter-is-ness of creation.
It is not the cessation ofcreation, it is the
alter-is-ness of the existingcreation.
I like this, and the reason whythis really stood out to me,
and even when Art was talking,is because I can see how change
(49:21):
could fuck people up, likealter-is-ness can mess some
people up, like alter isness canmess some people up.
Like alter isness can make aperson feel shitty.
Alter isness like you're notseeing me, you're not getting my
truth, you're not duplicatingme, you're not getting it, and
so you're just altering,altering, altering, change,
change, change, over, over over,piling up all this stuff, and
(49:48):
I'm like wait, I'm just tryingto be over here, you see, yeah,
and so so I get how we havethese different experiences and
different ways of experiencingchange and life and alter
business, because alter businessis the keynote to destruction.
It's what LRA says yeah, likepeople try to fucking destroy
you.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
This is crazy, and we all want the same thing in the
end, which is funny.
We all just want to be.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Yeah, we all hope to be.
That's it.
Wow, I love people.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I love people.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I love them, but sometimes a gun would be handy.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Just to have it about , you know Just in case you want
to create a little change, Ijust want to create a little
change, A little change.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
That's a drastic change.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Problem solved.
Boom, that's a drastic change.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
problem solved that was a joke.
Yeah, so anybody listening?
That was literally a jokemetaphorically, metaphorically,
metaphorically, right well, I, I, I.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
I'd like to think that everybody listening to this
got an idea on change and howthey can affect change, uh, in a
positive way, and the best wayto do that is through getting on
your auditing, getting up thebridge and handling change to
where you're a cause over it andyou're playing the game you
want to play, as opposed to thephysical universe of the game
(51:31):
playing you.
So take that into considerationwith the last podcast too, as
far as games go.
So, for Quentin and Arthur andmyself, I really enjoyed this
podcast.
I hope you did too, and we willsee you next time, probably
(51:53):
tomorrow or Tuesday, for ournext podcast and namaste, and we
love you.
Bye, bye peace.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
bye, bye, thank you, thank you.
Hi and welcome to another AOGP Scientology Outside
of the Church podcast.
This is season 10, episode 32.
I'm here with Quentin Stroudand Arthur Mudakis and this is
going to be sort of a extensionof our last episode on games.
We're going to talk aboutchange and freedom from and
(00:26):
freedom to.
Quentin's already snickeringthis was my idea, but he's
really psyched about this.
So we're going to talk aboutchange, alter business, freedom
from and freedom to Quentinwould you like to jump into the
(00:51):
deep end of the pool?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, you know, I snickered because, as we were
preparing for this podcast, Iwas getting so many wins, like
so many gains, just reading someLRH material and just really
understanding what is actuallyhappening in this world.
And I'm talking about, you know, macrocosmically and
microcosmically, what is goingon.
(01:14):
And when we talk about change,we're talking about alteration,
we're talking aboutalter-is-ness is how we talk
about in Scientology andobviously, in order to survive,
in order to persist on planetEarth, and the whole bit, that
change must occur.
Things got to go.
(01:39):
You know, start change, stop.
You start life, life goesthrough all these changes.
You grow up, you get older, youknow, whatever, whatever, and
then you stop.
Apparently, right, theappearance is that you stop.
The idea here is that when we'refocusing in on change, we're
really trying to understand whatis going on in life.
(02:00):
Right, because it's all that,from the cradle to the grave,
it's all changing, it's allchanges, it's all alterations
that are happening around us,moment by moment, day by day,
time by time, as it were, andall of these things are
happening.
And so, really, the reason whyI get so excited about this
conversation is because we'retalking about life in total,
(02:23):
from the cradle to the grave,life in total from the cradle to
the grave, from the experiencesto experiences, and we're going
to really kind of put this in abig pretty package for you that
are listening and you couldunderstand what the is going on
in your life.
That's why I want to open thisup.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And that starts out with freedom from and freedom to
.
Lrh observed that over time,there was a shift basically in
the meaning of freedom,particularly during Roosevelt's
era, when the concept changed tofreedom from.
(03:07):
Endless desire for freedom fromis a perfect trap.
It's fear of all things, and heemphasized that freedom from is
only beneficial when there's aplace to be free to.
In other words, focusing solelyon escaping or avoiding
something doesn't lead to truefreedom, which is change.
So he suggested that realfreedom exists basically among
barriers and that a balancebetween freedom and barriers is
crucial for happiness.
He viewed life as a gameconsisting of freedoms, barriers
(03:31):
and purposes, where therelationship which is games
between these elements needs tobe in harmony.
So basically, he's sayingfreedom from is showing
progressive steps to move anyonetowards the state, freedom from
is showing progressive steps tomove anyone towards the state,
and he also basically emphasizedthe importance of freedom too
(03:51):
as well, often referring toconjunction with liberty or
outspokenness.
So basically, true freedom,according to Ron, is about
having the ability to choose andact, not just about escaping
from something, which is part ofchange.
Hmm, yes.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
So a massive amount of confront.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah basically Understanding that if you're
just having this escapism kindof viewpoint which I think I
love how you articulated that ifyou have this escapism kind of
viewpoint, then you're neverreally free from the thing
(04:34):
because you're constantly tryingto escape it.
You're constantly trying to getI don't want to live like this,
I don't want to be here, Idon't want to do that and you're
constantly trying to get out orget away from, even when
seemingly you're already out ofit.
Have you ever had theexperience where it's like it
could have been an argument thatyou had with somebody in your
life or whatever, whatever?
(04:54):
And even though that thing hasgone on and it's passed, and
it's 20 years ago, and yetyou're still holding on to that
experience and trying to getaway from that person or that
thing or that experience.
It's like, ah, I don't want todeal with that, I don't want to
deal with they miss, I don'twant to deal with their
confusion, I don't want to dealwith their problems.
And it's like, well, hold on asecond.
That was 20 years ago, like,could that have been resolved by
(05:18):
now?
Could that have been anon-thing anymore?
And yet we're constantly tryingto escape that thing because
you're not really free of it,you see.
And so this is really good,because when you're getting
freedom from this idea offreedom from, you're really
trying to get away from thething which is persisting.
(05:41):
Get this which is persisting inyour universe, which is
persisting in your universe, inyour mind, in your awareness, in
your consciousness.
It is persisting there and soyou're constantly trying to get
away from it.
Let me say this I've seen thishappen, even when it relates to
money and poverty.
Right that?
Have you ever seen somebody whomight've won the lottery or got
(06:04):
some money coming in orwhatever, and they blow right
through it?
Right, because they're tryingto get away from this idea of
poverty, they're trying to getaway from lack and limitation,
and yet they keep trying to,like, put themselves back in it
because it's actually persistent, right, you see?
and so it's not just.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's not just one dimensional but, and why is it
persistent?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
well that, because it's something that they're
holding on to and that theyhaven't been able to fully get
freedom from and the and freedomto something, which is where
the change comes in.
How do you change your life?
How do you change yourexperience?
How you change your life.
How do you change yourexperience?
How do you change your reality?
How do you change your statusin life?
How do you change your positionin life?
(06:49):
These things are what we'regoing to talk about today.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
All right, you're dealing with an alter isness on
top of an alter isness on top ofan alter isness.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Jeez, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of incompletion
there.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so it kind of reminds me of the Black Panther
phenomena or the Black Panthereffect, where you know you could
tiptoe around it, you canpretend it's not there, you
could submit to it, and I lovethe final outcome You've got to
attack it.
You've got to attack it.
You've got to confront itBecause at least with
confronting it, at least youhave an as-is-ness, even if it's
(07:30):
a painful as-is-ness.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
At least you know what you're dealing with which
is really interesting, quentin,you had some axioms that you
thought parallel this wholething 100%.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So for me, whenever going through something and this
might help those of you who arelistening whenever going
through something, I like to goto the axioms, okay, the 57
axioms of Scientology.
I like to go to the axiomsbecause they to me, for me, it
makes total sense how he flowedthem out and how life actually
(08:09):
corresponds or kind of, is laidout using the axioms.
And so when we started talkingabout change, I was like, okay,
well, where does change happenin our lives?
What is change really about?
So I put up a couple of axiomsthat you can look into about.
So I put up a couple of axiomsthat you can look into.
We don't have to go through allof them, but some.
That really stood out was axiom13 and 14, which talks about the
(08:30):
cycle of action right, which iscreate, survive or persist and
then destroy.
And he says survival isaccomplished by alter is-ness
and not is-ness, by which isgained the persistency known as
time.
So we survive in this life byalter is-ness and not is-ness,
(08:54):
alter is-ness and not is-ness,and we do it over and over and
over and over again, and we callthis survival right.
And so something's going on inyour life and I need to change
that.
Okay, change it.
Okay, then you not is it, andyou change something, and you
not is that and you change it.
And you keep going through thiscycle of trying to make life be
(09:15):
right, which is survival.
And we do that through time, orwhat looks like or is known as
time, and all of this continuesto go on.
Well then it says I'm skippingnow to axiom 17, where he said
the static, having postulated asisness, then practices, alter
(09:38):
isness, and so achieves theappearance of isness and so
obtains reality.
So the static, the being, youright.
You've postulated isness likeokay, boom, life is I am, that I
am, you know, boom, right.
And then practices.
(10:00):
Throughout your life, throughoutyour experiences, you practice
alter isness, change, change,change, change my body, change
my job, change my life.
Throughout your experiences, youpractice alter is-ness, change,
change, change, change my body,change my job, change my life,
change my house, change my cat,change my dog, change, change,
change, right.
So you're practicing all thisalter is-ness or change, so to
achieve the appearance ofis-ness, be like yes, this is me
(10:20):
.
So all of this change happeningaround you, all this stuff
going on, all the practicing ofultra, is this, you come up with
this appearance that this is mylife, this is me, this is all
that I am, and it's not true,but it's the appearance of that
right, and then you so obtainwhat you know as your reality,
(10:45):
as reality.
This is reality for you, andwhen you look at it like this
and I'm laughing as I'm sayingit, so please forgive my
tongue-in-cheek kind of way offlowing it out but when you
really think about it like thisfreaking life is just a whole
bunch of alter businessesstacked up together.
To try to create this apparencyof what I am of is this right
(11:09):
yeah, these slow degrees ofgoing off off course.
You're making sense Like is thisis this is this real, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And then you're like how?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
did I get here?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
How did I get here?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, it's like I started out this journey.
I started out life and and I'mtalking about your entire
existence, I'm not just talkingabout, you know, when you were
born in 1943 or whatever, I'mtalking about your entire
existence.
And like you start out thisthing, it's like I'm gonna do
life and I'm gonna be somethingand I'm going to, and you start
creating all these alterations,all this, this change that you
(11:48):
postulate right, that you'repracticing it says it I think
it's an interesting word andyou're practicing these alter
businesses to try to create somesemblance of reality.
This is like matrix level stuff, right, but it's like you're,
you're, you're creating thissemblance of reality and you're
(12:08):
saying that this, therefore, ismy life, and it becomes so real
to some people you don'tunderstand what I'm saying Like
things that going on in thislife, things that happened to us
, you know, it becomes so real.
So then he goes into number 18,axiom 18, and he says the
static, in practicing not isnessbrings about the persistence of
(12:29):
unwanted existences.
Get this In practicing notisness brings about the
persistence of unwantedexistences, and so brings about
unreality.
Well, arc, think about the ARCtriangle.
Unreality, like a breakingagreements like this ain't what
(12:53):
I want, right, which includesforgetfulness, unconsciousness
and other undesirable states.
Hmm, how many of us felt likewe've been in that position
before.
Undesirable states of existence, these unwanted existences.
I don't want this.
This is not what I wanted formy life.
It's not what I wanted in thissituation.
This is not what I wanted.
But you do it by practicing,not is this, and have a stacked
(13:17):
up all these alter is this is bypracticing, alter is this?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
it's so interesting well, look at, look at that in
the context of our last podcast.
Is, you know, in the, in thecontext of games?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have.
You have all these alterbusinesses at this game and that
game and I'm going to make thisgame and that game, and you
didn't finish the game that youwere playing.
And so now you're you're likehow, how did I get in this, this
(13:45):
, this situation?
Because you have these alterismuses of games that you
started to play and then youchanged the game or you started
a new game inside of a gameyou'd already started to play
yeah, yeah and I know I knowgames upon games, right, and I
know we're talking about thiskind of like quickly and just
(14:06):
kind of throwing out all theseterminologies and stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But I want you guys to really simplify it, right, to
really simplify it so that youcan use this awareness, this way
of thinking in your life.
All of these games that we'replaying with ourselves, all of
these changes and alterinstances that we're putting and
we're practicing as a static,as a being, all of these things
(14:30):
that we're stacking up on top ofeach other.
You really can start to as-issome of this stuff.
And this is where auditingcomes in.
This is why auditing ispossible, right, with
communication and whatnot.
The reason why it's possible isbecause and the why it's is
like we want you to get auditingis because you go in and you
start as a thetan.
(14:50):
You start going in and youstart saying, oh, nope, not that
one, that's not what I want.
Nope, not I got that one.
And you start getting rid ofsome of these alter businesses
that have been persistent inyour life for so freaking long
and you start to see like, oh no, that's not, I didn't mean that
(15:12):
.
Right, I'll tell you realquickly.
I was pulling in this on my ownauditing track.
I was pulling in abusiverelationships, right.
And so I was in abusiverelationship I'm talking about
in this present lifetime,abusive relationship after
abusive relationship.
And I'm like what is going on?
And one day, sitting atPiedmont Park in Atlanta,
(15:35):
georgia, I was getting auditedby my co-auditor.
We were going back and forthDianetics and we started running
an abusive incident thathappened to me in this lifetime
and it wasn't lifting.
And so we're running it andrunning it and it wasn't lifting
and the hit and all the stuffthat happened to me and the
(15:56):
abuse and it wasn't lifting.
So my auditor says, well, isthere an earlier incident
similar to the one we'reauditing?
And I get snatched back.
I ain't going to go into all thedetails, but suffice it to say
this thing was the moststupidest, most asinine
(16:18):
postulate that I made about myrelationships a long time ago,
right.
And as soon as I cleared thatup, there was so much relief and
so much just like, oh, myfreaking God, it just came off.
(16:40):
It just came off, I don't knowhow else to say it.
And since then I've neverpulled in that kind of
experience before Again, I'venever pulled that in and it's
like I get it now.
That was probably the mostsalvific and most profound
experience I had, because I knowwhat I was mocking up, I know
(17:02):
these relationships and I'm likethis is not right, this is not
how a relationship is supposedto be, and I'm saying that to
myself.
I'm saying to myself this isnot how it's supposed to be, and
yet I keep making it be, I keepmocking it up, you see.
And so it wasn't until I wentback and I found that postulate,
that thing that said this iswhat it is Talking about
(17:25):
relationships.
And I was like, oh nope,scratch that one off the list.
And when LRH says you are anauditor, I totally got reality
on that word.
An auditor, one who listens andcomputes because you go in, and
it's almost like a freakingcalculator.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,that's an error, you know.
(17:45):
Delete, delete, delete, delete,delete.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And now it all lines up.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Well, I think we lost you, quinton, I'm sorry, can
you hear me now?
Yep, yep, I'm sorry, my littlelink cut out.
I don't know what you guys lastheard, but I was saying that
this is why auditing is such avaluable, valuable tool because
you go in and you don't have tocontinue to live this way.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It's beautiful so, arthur, do you want to do a
process?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
yeah, right now, surrounding change well, before
we do that, I looked up the wordchange and what I found really
interesting is the derivative ofthis word.
It means barter, so you'reexchanging one item for another
(18:42):
item, which is quite interestinghow it sort of fits into this.
You know, alter-easing andas-easing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You're in a barter system.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, all right.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So this is a change process.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Is it going to make me cry?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
No, no, not at all.
Here we go.
You ready?
This is from April 61, 27 ofApril 61.
Change processes you ready?
Okay, think of changingyourself, or get the idea of
(19:25):
changing yourself, or get theidea of changing yourself, okay,
okay.
Now think or get the idea ofanother changing himself.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, now think or get the idea of changing another
okay okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
what was changing the other?
It was actually actually my boybringing him up.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Okay, good, think or get the idea of another trying
to change you.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
There's been plenty of those Okay good, now think.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Or get the idea of another trying to change another
.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay, okay, good, now think or get the idea of
another trying to change another.
Okay, okay, what was it?
Um, it was two people arguingand one person was trying to get
their point across, but quiteaggressively okay, good, now
think or get the idea of notchanging yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that just kind of made me sink a little bit,
okay.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Now think or get the idea of another, not changing
himself.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, good, what was it?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
they were just stuck.
Okay, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's like they're stuck in a moment of time now
think I get the idea of notchanging another what was it?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
okay, um, I kind of went back to my boy again and
just allowing him to be him,okay now think or get the idea
of another, not changing youyeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
it's just me being me good, now I think I get the
idea of another, not changinganother.
Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
um, it was those two guys not arguing and just
enjoying their day.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Good, now think or get the idea of changing
yourself.
Okay, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It was actually nothing Just me Okay, what was
it?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
It was actually nothing, just me.
Okay.
Now think or get the idea ofanother changing himself.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It was almost like they were just putting too much
pressure on themselves.
Okay, good, now think or getthe idea of changing another.
Okay, what was it?
I didn't have to do anythingother than be me good now think
(23:00):
or get the idea of anothertrying to change you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I didn't have to do anything other than be me Good.
Now think, or get the idea ofanother trying to change you
yeah, okay, what was it?
They can't.
Thank you Now think or get theidea of another trying to change
(23:28):
another.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, Okay, what was it I?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
feel sorry for the other if they can't be
themselves.
Okay, good.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Now I think I get the idea of not changing yourself.
Oh man, I just got reallynauseous.
Okay, what was it?
Oh, it's actually making mereally emotional now.
The amount of pressure we puton ourselves is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Thank, you Think you get the idea of another not
changing himself?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
It's kind of sad that it's sad to observe somebody's
stuckness.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Good, now think or get the idea of not changing
another.
Yeah, okay, good, what was?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
it.
I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Good, now think or get the idea of another, not
changing you.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yep, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
They can't Okay.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Now I think I get the idea of another not changing,
another Not changing.
Okay, yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's just peaceful.
Thank you.
Now think you get the idea ofchanging yourself.
Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't need to, because I know what I should be
doing okay, good, think, or getthe idea of another changing
himself yes okay, what was?
It um.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
He's just educating himself good, I think you get
the idea of changing another.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Okay, okay what was it?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Nothing, I don't have to do anything.
Good Now, I think you get theidea of another trying to change
you.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Okay, what was it?
I can't.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thank you.
I think you get the idea ofanother trying to change another
.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yep, Okay what was it .
Change will only occur if theyallow it.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Good, I think you get the idea of not changing
yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, now I'm uncomfortable about that, and
the reason I'm uncomfortable forit is it's not progressive not
doing anything.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Okay, now think you get the idea of another not
changing himself.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Now, I find that sad.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
That they're not bettering themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Good, I think you get the idea of not changing
another.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Okay, I don't have to .
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Okay, good, now think or get the idea of another, not
changing you.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
They're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, think or get the idea of another, not
changing another.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
They can do whatever they want, okay, good.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
How does change seem to you now?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It's almost a dirty word.
In some ways it has itspositives, if it's in a healthy
way change for betterment.
That's a tricky questionactually, oh Mm-hmm, because I'm
(28:21):
stuck on this whole barterthing.
So in order for me to change,I've got to do something
different, whatever that may be,and then, in order to change, I
have to give something away inorder to replace it right, which
is what we were talking aboutbefore we started the process
(28:41):
yeah, yeah.
so if I want to replace certainparts of myself, I need
something to replace them with,as opposed to just thinking I'm
replacing them with unproductivethings, but unproductive for
myself, and yeah, and I thinkthat's that's the point of it,
(29:05):
isn't it like things, butunproductive for myself, and
yeah, and I think that's thepoint of it, isn't it?
Like you know, I don't need tochange anything as such, but
we're in constant change.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Right, quentin, yes, and that is change.
How about?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
that, Arthur.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
It's got me feeling reallyuncomfortable, to be honest,
Like in a good way.
In a good way.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Uncomfortable as in it's like's like man.
It can be so simple.
Um, that's what I was.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That's exactly what I was thinking too.
Yeah, it's dauntingly simpleand and that's the thing, and
that's where, like man, there'sa massive amount of altruism.
Is there a massive amount?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
massive, yeah, okay, yeah well done, okay, quentin
you up for one yeah, 100 okay,how have you tried to change
yourself?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
am I answering this or do you want me to get the
idea of it?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, you can go ahead.
This is a different set ofbrackets.
How have you tried to changeyourself?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I have tried to work out.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I have tried to educate and enlighten.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Okay, good.
How has another tried to changeyou?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
By trying to give me, the first thing that comes up
is give me things.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
By telling himself stories.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Another tried to change another by war.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Okay With war?
How have you tried to changeyourself?
Okay With war how?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
have you tried to change yourself?
I've tried to change myself bygrowing up, growing my body.
Good how have you tried tochange another?
I've tried to change another bycreating systems like my
business creating businesses.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
How has another tried to change himself?
Uh, through another.
He's trying to change himselfthrough um watching television.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
by producing television.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Watching television.
Okay, how has another tried tochange another by producing
television?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Good, how have you tried to change yourself?
I've tried to change myself byjournaling.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, how have you tried to change?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
another, another I've tried to change another by uh
two-way communication talking tothem okay, how has another
tried to change you?
By um telling.
Telling me a story or telling alie?
(32:42):
I guess a story.
I won't say a story, but it'slike a lie okay, how has another
tried to change himself?
Oh, I'm sorry I'm yawning,excuse me, barbie how's another
tried to change himself?
(33:05):
um, another has tried to changehimself by excuse me, pardon me.
Um, oh, another tries to changehimself by um, building a house
.
I'm seeing I'm seeing likechopping wood, but building a
house, okay, how'm seeing likechocolate wood but building a
house.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Another tried to change another by contracts and
agreements.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Good.
How have you tried to changeyourself?
By making some clear policiesand postures that work for me.
Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
How have you tried to change another?
By helping them?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
see that change is possible.
Okay, how has another tried tochange you?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
By showing me ways of doing things that are different
from what I normally do or theway I normally do them.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Okay.
How has another tried to changehimself?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
By normally do them.
Okay.
How has another tried to changehimself?
By seeking out better wisdom orbetter ideas?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Like by another, has tried to change another by
coming to the table and figuringout what works for both.
Compromise Good.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
How have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I have figured out different ways that work for me
and created my life around thoseways that work for me.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Thank you.
How have you tried to changeanother?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I have put people in key positions that help them to
make good decisions, or betterdecisions for their lives.
So I change in themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Good.
How has another tried to changeyou, changing themselves?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Good.
How has another tried to changeyou by showing me the error of
my ways at times, Okay, thathappens.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
By listening to others.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
By Good, how has another tried to change another
by oh, that's interesting.
By like moving their, movingthem through space, like by
saying, okay, come here.
Like, move here.
Like get away from there, movehere.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself, mm-hmm
.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Um, by changing my, uh,immediate environment.
Okay, how have you tried tochange another?
By um getting them to this?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
is what coming up, but getting them to do something
different with their hair, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
How has another tried to change you by?
Oh, this is interesting withsex.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Okay, they tried to change me with sex, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Change himself with.
This is what I'm seeing.
Like with pictures, like mentalimage pictures Good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
How has another viewpoint can change another
person's?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
viewpoint.
Okay, how have you tried tochange yourself?
I have given myself permissionto be good, how have you tried
to change another?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I have granted beingness to them and allowed
them to become more of who theyare, thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
How has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Um by, oh, through praise and admiration.
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
By doing the mental and physical work in order to
become better at being them.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Good.
How has another tried to changeanother?
By taking the time to reallyhear a person out and get to
some kind of agreement and ARCwith them so that, therefore,
there's no longer a disparity.
It's like they become they geton the same page, they're
(38:24):
vibrating at the same frequencyand that created the change that
was necessary.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Okay, good, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I have opened myself to being able to experience
anything.
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I have allowed myself to.
Oh, I've.
Okay, I've purposed myself,thank you.
I've purposed myself to becomea change agent like I want to
help change.
Help people change themselveswhen they're ready.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
By trying to convince me of their rightness and my
wrongness.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Okay, how has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
By trying to convince himself of his rightness and
others wrongness.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
um by, oh, by, wearing sexy clothes like
seductive, like seductive wear.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have tried to improve my smile, my teeth.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Good, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
By giving them, oh show, showing them opportunities
that could benefit them, themin their life.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
by giving me money comes up again.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Giving me money.
Okay, how has another tried tochange himself?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
By flowing something, flowing out money to get an
improvement, like going to apersonal trainer or something.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh, by being a teacher or a trainer or a coach,
by like doing the work towardstrying to help change other
people.
Okay, and how have you tried tochange yourself myself, to
change as I see fit at any givenmoment and realizing that that
(41:07):
feels right to me, for me?
Speaker 1 (41:17):
in my reality and my actuality and that feels good,
Good.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
So how do you feel about change now?
I feel that change isinevitable.
I feel that change happens allaround us at every moment, in
every part of existence andsurvival, and I feel that is
only how we perceive change andhow we receive right and
conceive of change.
That makes it, you know, Iguess, put a judgment on it.
(41:40):
So if I'm trying to helpsomebody, then that's positive
change.
If you were, If I'm trying tocontrol or manipulate somebody,
that's negative change.
And so and these are allperceptions, but it's all just
change if you really look at itfrom the basic.
Basic.
And so, yeah, change isinevitable in survival, but we
(42:00):
don't have to.
We can choose how we allowourselves to change and how we
help change others, and viceversa.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Right, artie, you had a big smile on your face.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yeah, no, I'm good, I'm good, yeah, I'm good, it's
interesting.
It's interesting going throughthat process, and then it's also
interesting observing theprocess how so?
Um, well, I was thinking manydifferent things because, like,
(42:34):
I'm coming from my immediateenvironment and where I live,
and then quentin's coming fromhis immediate environment and
where he lives, his experiencesand my experiences, and just the
way we interpret it so uniquelyand so differently, yeah, same
questions and extremelydifferent answers.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Right.
So that's how auditing works,is it gets you to take another
perspective on different flows,to get you to look at things?
Speaker 3 (43:06):
but somebody else might have completely different
answers depending on wherethey're at on the subject of
change yeah, and it wasinteresting there were so many
things quentin said that I'mlike, oh yeah, I didn't even
think of that.
That wasn't my first thought,which I thought was interesting.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You can see where the Go ahead, Quentin.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
No, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You can see where the alter-is-ness is.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
When it comes to change.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
So what's the phenomena of that one?
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
The phenomena is some sort of a cognition, you know
yeah you have a, have arealization on it.
You know, and uh, on a meter,your floating needles and vgi is
good, very good indicators.
So you know these can.
These can be run as groupprocesses as well I like.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I like the one about get the idea too, because, yeah,
because, even as as you wererunning arts, I was getting so
many like different ideas aroundit, and it's because for me you
know this is interestingbecause we talked about this
before the podcast that adefinition of power is the
ability to hold space right, tohold your space Amidst external
(44:28):
forces and other things going on, and when a being is like,
grounded and knows who they areas they're going through all
this stuff.
Change doesn't have to be scary, right, like, because the truth
of the matter is you're theconstant.
You are the constant in yourlife.
(44:48):
I don't care who you around,who you with, who your mama is,
who your daddy is, all thatother stuff.
You are the constant in yourlife.
And when you understand who youare, from time immemorial up
until now, like you get like ohwait, I haven't gone through a
lot of change.
I don't have different bodiesand different beings and
(45:09):
different hairstyles, and withthe hair that you came up with,
I cracked up laughing becauseI'm like, yeah, I guess that is
a change, right, but it's likewe don't think about how all
those things are different,window dressing, of this being
right, regardless of the body,regardless of the body,
regardless of the you know skinor the whatever, it's just
window dressing, right, and Iget to be me throughout all of
(45:33):
this and and and, like I saidbefore, like by having this
consideration about change, likeit doesn't necessarily have to
scare me.
So if I want to pick up andmove from California to Thailand
, I do that shit and it's okay,like it's just, it's like
nothing can frighten me in this,because I know that wherever I
go there, I am, you know,whatever changes happen, I am
(45:59):
still me.
In all of this and and and.
If I need to mock up some moremess, like I need to mock up a
house, or I need to mock up acar, I need to mock up this, ok,
it's just change.
You said, oh,bibbidi-bobbidi-boop, that's
like easy to me, and so thesethings don't have to frighten us
if we know who we are.
Lrh talks about security.
(46:20):
He was like the only securitythat you have is you, period,
everything else can fall away.
Everything else might go awayShit, I don't know but the only
security you have is you.
And when you know that, hey,nothing daunts you.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yep, and that's how auditing works.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
That's pretty good, yeah, well, you know it's
interesting because our art andnot to evaluate or anything, but
like some of the considerationsthere really kind of stood out
to me.
It reminded me of a lecturethat LRH gave called Alter
Isness and the Keynote of AllDestruction, and it kind of like
(47:09):
I can see how we get there.
Right, because he talks abouthow alter isness is the keynote
of all destruction, and I'm justgoing to read a quick excerpt
where he says now you getsomething like that going on.
There's practically no way toreach it with an auditing
session.
Overts, overts, overts.
(47:30):
You get the idea?
Well, this results inalteration and alter-is-ness.
The basis of destruction isalter-is-ness, and when somebody
would like to destroy you butcan't, all he can do is alter is
.
You Got the idea?
(47:51):
Oh, we see this in various waysIn Theta.
You see, here's an auditorsitting in the area and he's
doing all right and some otherauditor isn't doing all right,
so they start accumulating overagainst this auditor that is
doing all right.
The next thing, you know, theperson that's committing the
over gets madder and madder atthe auditor.
This fellow has never doneanything to, you understand, to
(48:15):
this other guy, maybe even senthim some PCs, and the more that
B does to A, the more overts,overts, overts pile up and turn
into anger, anger, anger.
You get the idea.
This is a one-man fight.
There's no other fight going onover here.
(48:36):
See, boy, it begins to looklike a cyclone is happening in
this vicinity.
This fellow goes to bed atnight and bites the pillow, you
know, screams to himself andwhile auditing the PC, something
like that lets out a yipsoccasionally.
That is alter isness,destruction as we know it in war
(49:00):
or in anything else.
Alter-is-ness of creation.
It is not the cessation ofcreation, it is the
alter-is-ness of the existingcreation.
I like this, and the reason whythis really stood out to me,
and even when Art was talking,is because I can see how change
(49:21):
could fuck people up, likealter-is-ness can mess some
people up, like alter isness canmess some people up.
Like alter isness can make aperson feel shitty.
Alter isness like you're notseeing me, you're not getting my
truth, you're not duplicatingme, you're not getting it, and
so you're just altering,altering, altering, change,
change, change, over, over over,piling up all this stuff, and
(49:48):
I'm like wait, I'm just tryingto be over here, you see, yeah,
and so so I get how we havethese different experiences and
different ways of experiencingchange and life and alter
business, because alter businessis the keynote to destruction.
It's what LRA says yeah, likepeople try to fucking destroy
you.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
This is crazy, and we all want the same thing in the
end, which is funny.
We all just want to be.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Yeah, we all hope to be.
That's it.
Wow, I love people.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I love people.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I love them, but sometimes a gun would be handy.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Just to have it about , you know Just in case you want
to create a little change, Ijust want to create a little
change, A little change.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
That's a drastic change.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Problem solved.
Boom, that's a drastic change.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
problem solved that was a joke.
Yeah, so anybody listening?
That was literally a jokemetaphorically, metaphorically,
metaphorically, right well, I, I, I.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
I'd like to think that everybody listening to this
got an idea on change and howthey can affect change, uh, in a
positive way, and the best wayto do that is through getting on
your auditing, getting up thebridge and handling change to
where you're a cause over it andyou're playing the game you
want to play, as opposed to thephysical universe of the game
(51:31):
playing you.
So take that into considerationwith the last podcast too, as
far as games go.
So, for Quentin and Arthur andmyself, I really enjoyed this
podcast.
I hope you did too, and we willsee you next time, probably
(51:53):
tomorrow or Tuesday, for ournext podcast and namaste, and we
love you.
Bye, bye peace.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
bye, bye, thank you, thank you.
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