July 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Ever wonder why certain family patterns keep repeating through generations? This revealing exploration of "the contagion of aberration" uncovers the hidden mechanisms behind how negative patterns spread from person to person, particularly within families.
We dive deep into L. Ron Hubbard's insights on how stressed individuals unconsciously dramatize engrams (stored painful memories), potentially transferring these patterns to others - especially children. "Charity begins at home" takes on new meaning when we realize our behaviors become the blueprint our children follow.
We discover how agreement functions as the catalyst for this contagion. When we normalize certain behaviors as opinion leaders in our children's lives, they naturally follow suit. The conversation examines how this process accelerates dramatically through social media and technology, with impressionable minds absorbing questionable values from influencers and bringing them home, creating a domino effect of declining standards.
Beyond mere behavior, the hosts examine how this phenomenon affects what they call the "four universes" - spirit, mind, body, and physical universe. Since each universe intimately connects with the others, addressing mental patterns through Independent Scientology practices can heal spiritual and physical conditions simultaneously.
Particularly poignant is our discussion on how modern communication patterns, especially smartphone usage, disrupt natural exchange and connection. When families no longer eat together or make eye contact during conversations, something fundamental in human connection is lost. Similarly, when children's attempts at exchange are dismissed, their natural desire to contribute becomes suppressed.
Want to break these cycles and create healthier patterns for yourself and those around you? Listen now to discover practical insights on increasing awareness, setting boundaries against disrespect, and consciously choosing what behaviors to allow in your presence. By taking responsibility for our own patterns, we protect ourselves and create a better environment for everyone in our sphere of influence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, welcome to another Scientology Outside of
the Church podcast.
This is season 11, episode 15,and this one is going to be
about the contagion ofaberration, both in the home and
in society.
I'm here with Quentin Stroud.
(00:23):
Quentin, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Good, me too.
We're going to dive right intothis.
What is a contagion ofaberration from an independent
Scientology standpoint?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
aberration from an independent Scientology
standpoint.
So definitely understandingthat when there is aberration
about right, in people, in thepeople that are around you, in
situations around you, thataberration can shift over or can
be infected is how LRH calls it.
(01:02):
It can infect someone else, andso when we talk about, charity
begins at home.
It really is a beautiful way ofsaying don't fuck up your kids.
How many, how many times havewe perhaps allowed some of that
(01:27):
contagion to rub off or toaffect, you know, those around
us, or be affected by, beaffected by that kind of
contagion, by that kind ofaberration?
And so we have to be verycareful of that and why.
This is the kind of space, asindependent Scientologists, we
want to foster, a space thatkind of breaks that cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, and it's also important to note that there are
lots of defining factors on howthis happens, both in society
and well, what the originalpodcast title was was you know,
charity begins at home and whatyou teach your kids, what you do
(02:15):
with your kids, is what theylearn from as an example, and
this carries over to friends.
It carries over to friends, itcarries over to relationships,
and the big A word agreement iswhat causes this, because if you
make something okay, thenpeople will follow suit,
(02:41):
especially if you're an opinionleader.
So that's important is you needto lead by example.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right.
And who are our first opinionleaders?
But our parents, right.
Who are our first opinionleaders?
But the people who we look upto or we look to around us, and
even as we get older, then itbecomes our friends, right, our
friends become the opinionleaders because we care about
what they think.
Of course, you know, and so allof these things matter.
(03:10):
Lrh says here in Dianetics,contagion of Apparition.
He says the mechanisms aresimple People under stress, if
aberrated, dramatize engrams.
Such dramatization may involvethe injury of another person and
render him more or lessunconscious.
The unconscious person thenreceives as an engram the
(03:32):
dramatization, right.
And so, quite simply, it sayshere that the parent how is it
the parent that can infect theirchild with N-grams?
Aberrated parents are certainto affect their child with
N-grams.
And so we have to be mindful ofthe things that, as we're going
(03:56):
through life, are you beingyourself or are you dramatizing
somebody else's dramatization,somebody else's ingratitude,
somebody else's stuff, right?
How many times have you heardsomebody say well, you look just
like your mama, you sound justlike your mama, you sound just
like your daddy?
Right, and it's something thatwe could continue to dramatize
(04:19):
over and over and over again,not even aware of it, not even
aware of it below our consciouslevel of awareness, and this
then becomes what we wouldconsider our personality.
That's just the way.
It is just the way I am.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Right, right, and that follows the LRH datum.
Of that, a person takes on theweaker valence, especially in a
family unit, because it gets themost attention.
So they're going to take onthose things that they see are
successful in getting attention,which is a really slippery
(04:55):
slope, and that is, you know,that's part of that, leading by
example type of a thing, andthat's why it's important to you
know, I mean, you know in aperfect sense, get auditing and
fix these things that areaffecting you, that then have a
(05:16):
domino effect on your children,your grandchildren, your
great-grandchildren, that typeof a thing, because this stuff
echoes down through thegenerations.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And anybody around you like I mean a society.
You can be dramatizing theaberration of a society, of a
culture, of a people, of acommunity.
Right, look at New York.
If you go to New York City, youknow, if you go to certain
parts of the world, you can seepeople dramatizing just even in
(05:44):
the way they speak, even the waythey talk to you.
You can see them dramatizingsomething.
It was like, well, what did Ido to you?
You know, yeah, and it's likenothing, I'm not even mad, but
the way you're coming at me, itsounds like it, you know yeah,
you have these, these mannerismsof.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You know the different bor, different
boroughs in New York and the waythat they behave, whether
you're in the Bronx or you're inQueens or you're in New Jersey,
they have these particularaccents and behaviors and
mannerisms.
You know, are you talking to me?
Are you talking to me?
You know that kind of attitudetype of a thing, because that's
(06:25):
what you have to have to survivein that particular area and
that is a prime example of, Imean, you know the, the
aggressiveness in order tosurvive, because if you don't
respond that way, you're asucker and you're weaker.
So that's a prime example ofcontagion evaboration.
(06:50):
And you see in social media,these influencers, and that's a
huge, huge thing, because theissue is, when you have somebody
that is an influencer in modernday technology and society,
they're influencing people forthings they shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Honestly, you know, and the priorities get mixed up
and especially when you're youngand you're impressionable,
you're going to go intoagreement with this, and the
kids see this on social mediaand then they come home and then
now they're passing it on as adomino effect to their parents
that this is the thing, whetherit's the latest lingo, the
(07:39):
expressions of that generation,or it's what's acceptable.
The expressions of thatgeneration or it's what's
acceptable.
You know, here in South Africathe parents come into a store
and they buy edible marijuanagummies with their kids.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
With the kids, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Right.
What kind of parent is that?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Or smoking and drinking with the kids.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right and that's a huge issue is you need to lead
by example, because if you don't, all you're doing is passing on
this contagion of aberration.
And that also comes down to Imean, even hundreds of years
later, people are still behavinglike their forefathers, many
(08:24):
generations down, and peopledon't understand where that
comes from, but it's there, it'spart of the fabric of the way
that their parents, theirgrandparents, behaved the way
that they do their ethics level,how they approach things with
people, how they communicate andall of this.
And we're seeing this much moreso because of the speed of
(08:46):
technology.
You can see anything across theplanet in the blink of an eye
if you have a decent internetconnection or a cell connection,
and that's how these things getstarted.
What was it?
The washing machine detergentwhere kids were drinking.
Washing machine.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Tide pods.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The Tide pods, the washing machine detergent where
kids were drinking washing pots,the tide pods, tide pods and
and killing themselves becauseit was a trending thing.
If that's not contagionevaporation, I don't know what
it is.
Yeah, because somebody else didit.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I saw it on tiktok yeah, it was the same yeah, and
then that's the only word for itright, right.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
And then you know that gets into media and and all
of that and and goes back toour podcast on.
You know the only way tocontrol a person is a lie to
them, but that's that's also alearned behavior in a contagion
evaporation.
You know what your kids learnedat home and the way that you
you're going back to theoriginal title of the podcast.
(09:46):
You know charity begins at homeis when you have somebody who's
in your family.
You have to follow through andyou have to put in ethics and
morals in order for them to be adecent person.
And they're only you.
The kids and the grandkids areonly gonna be as good as you are
(10:07):
.
And that comes down to yourtone scale, comes down to your
chart of human evaluation.
And this is part of the reasonwhy we see the dwindling spiral
in society is because of theseleading by bad examples.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, and I think that what I like to, how I like
to lay it out, is you're notjust looking at, you're not just
looking at behaviors, right,we're not just talking about
behaviors, because LRH talksabout the four universes and he
talks about how each universe isits own, but it's also
(10:50):
intimately acquainted orintimately connected with the
next universe.
So the first universe, ofcourse, is the universal spirit,
right, you as a spiritual being.
The first universe is spirit.
The second universe is mind,right, the third universe is the
physical body and the fourthuniverse is the physical
universe outside the body, right.
(11:11):
And so when you see thesebehaviors and and we recognize
and we just think that, oh,you're just misbehaving, right,
you're just misbehaving, butit's not just misbehaving.
So, so, so the kids go and andand get the edible gummies from
(11:32):
the market, thinking it's justcandy and they just want to, you
know whatever, with the parents, and we would think that, oh,
it's just poor behavior, you'rejust making a poor choice by
that.
But what's not considered andthis is why I like to go deep,
because I'm a Pisces, we like togo deep into things that that
that physical universe item, thelittle gummy Right, can affect
(11:57):
the body, affect the mind, and,because they're all intimately
connected, these universesaffect the spirit, and so you're
not just talking about badbehavior.
When you're talking about, likeyou know, watching certain
things on social media, orparents doing this, or kids
acting because they see theirfriends doing stuff, it's not
(12:31):
just a behavioral issue, stuffthat it's just, you know, these
kids have, you know, behaviordisorder or or what's the,
what's the one that was so funnyto me?
Um, confrontational,authoritative, confrontational
disorder, something like that.
They have a problem withauthority or something, and it's
like.
It's like it's not just abehavioral matter here that
we're talking about.
We're talking about these fouruniverses that are intimately
connected and one affects theother, affects the other,
(12:54):
affects the other.
And that's why, as independentScientologists, having this
conversation, I think, with you,as you're listening to this, is
so important.
What is the spiritualimplications of the behaviors,
(13:15):
implications of the behaviorsthat we might be seeing playing
out?
So all you see is the physicalmanifestation, but what's going
on in the mind?
What's going on in the spirit?
And, as independentScientologists, to me that needs
to be the first question.
Not why is Johnny acting somean?
The first question needs to bewhat's going on in the spirit,
what's going on in the mind?
(13:36):
Oh, I see why he's acting thisway.
I see why the physicalbehaviors are showing up this
way, because there's some otherstuff happening here.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Right, and one of the things that you see with the
current generation the teens toearly 20s even older than that
is this sense of entitlementthat they're entitled to much,
much more than they should be,because they haven't experienced
(14:07):
what it is to get a productfrom the viewpoint in
independent Scientology, that aperson is rewarded for the good
products that they create andthat is exchangeable for money
and goods and things like that.
And that is something that isendemic in our society currently
(14:29):
is that you know that peopleexpect to be on the dole or
government handouts and thingslike that, and they're not
producing any product, then theyjust expect to be taken care of
, and we're one step away from auniversal income where people
(14:51):
get paid for doing nothing andthat way they're controlled.
And we need to take a look atthat with our kids and teach
them when they're young that youget rewarded for good
production.
You don't get rewarded for noproduction or bad production or
overt products or overt products, because I mean I hate to say
(15:13):
this, but kids these days don'tget the understanding of
exchange, what it is to exchangea product for one or another,
and this is part of thatcontagion of aberration that's
been taught in schools, taughtin media, you know, is that you
know it's okay to hustlesomebody as long as it makes
money, but somebody else is outmoney because you scammed them.
(15:37):
But that's okay because you werethe one that ended up with the
money, so that's all right andthat's why you see all of this.
Well, I mean, you know thescams that are going on all the
time, whether it's crypto orwhether it's on Facebook or this
or that.
That's a contagion ofaberration.
Because it's been made, okay aslong as it's a hustle and
(15:58):
you're making money, who careshow you made that money?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, I think also too, and even going back further
than that, I remember my son'slittle sisters.
They're twins.
I remember my son's littlesisters they're twins and one
day we went to get them dressedfor church or school or
something like that.
We got that, we went to go getthem dressed and they, after we
(16:30):
got them dressed Emanuela shegoes out and she gets a flower
and it was like right by thefront door.
So she goes to the side andgrabs the flower off the bush
and she comes back in and shehands me this flower and I said,
oh my gosh, thank you so much,like I, this is exactly what I
needed.
And I put it in my ear, youknow, and I said, does it look
good?
You like it?
And she was so elated to giveme this flower and what I wanted
(16:52):
to communicate in that momentthat I accept your exchange.
Right, I accept your exchange.
I helped you get dressed,helped you tie your shoes and
all that stuff, and she wasthree years old, four years old,
whatever she was, and she comesto give me this flower and I
accept your exchange.
Thank you so much.
This is exactly what I neededright now, you know.
(17:14):
So I want her to know that.
But I think that how many timeshas that been just kind of
brushed off?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We ain't got time for that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Come on, we got to go , we got to go to school, we got
to get out of here.
You know how many times has itbeen brushed off when a child
might want to try to offer anexchange, because it's natural,
it's the natural beingness of aspirit to have fair exchange,
because we're inherently good,and yet it becomes almost like
brushed aside or almostconsidered like you wasted my
(17:44):
life, you wasted my time bydoing stuff like this, and so
this is another reason why wetalk, when we talk about charity
begins at home, when we talkabout the contagion of
aberration and how it can messthings up for your children and
for people around you, and so onand so on.
These are little things, but itthrows off what's, what's the
(18:08):
natural beingness of this personthat wants to give this kind of
fair exchange?
right and so then, later on, nowthe child is grown or you know
whatever older, and you can'tget nothing out of them.
You can't get no fair, youcan't.
They want to clean their room,you know whatever right.
Well, how many times has theirexchange been knocked off?
(18:29):
You know throughout thatexperience, that they don't feel
like I have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, you have to let them contribute.
I mean, when I was a kid, I hadchores that I had to do and
that was my contribution to thehousehold.
You did too, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
We had to do chores.
And I told my son I said ain'tnothing free?
I said my son had to pay forhis room.
You want the room, do you wantit?
You got to pay for it.
And so he had to contributefinancially as well.
And I wanted him to understandthat, as you're maturing, as
you're growing up, it's going tobe extremely important for you
(19:08):
to understand how to exchangemoney.
It's going to be extremelyimportant for you to understand
how to exchange money.
I didn't play with money Beforehe got his allowance.
He had to give me an invoiceSunday before midnight.
You had to give me your invoiceSunday before midnight.
Did you do your chores?
Is your homework done?
Whatever the report was for theweek, everything needs to be in
(19:28):
the invoice.
And then at the end of that,when I reviewed it okay, good,
you get paid.
And he got paid that followingFriday, but you had to get it to
me by Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Right.
I mean there has to be anappreciation for the exchange
that is occurring, and that'sone of the things that's missing
in this society is that youknow everybody's on their phone
and they're individuated, andthey don't know how to
communicate because they're ontheir phone all the time.
They haven't even they'reafraid to talk to people because
(20:01):
the only thing they know istheir phone, which is a via for
communication.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not actual communication, right, it's just
a via Right, right Right.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and that's that's that's a that's that's
the big problem is that theydon't have a proper
communication cycle so they'redisconnected from society.
And you know, it's reallyobvious, especially with the
younger generation, that theycan't even confront having a
(20:34):
conversation with an adult.
They just clam up because thephone's been the via, so that's.
You know, that's anothercontagion of aberration.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Ooh, that's.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, that's a good point.
You know we'll say look at,look at me when I'm when we're
talking.
Look at me when we're talkinglike tr zero, like the front.
You know, look look at me whenwe're talking.
You know, don't, don't be inyour phone or don't be.
You know I can't.
I can't because I just I thinkbetter.
(21:05):
I've heard people say that Ithink better when I don't look
at you.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What they gotta do with it, and that is a contagion
of aberration in this society,is that I can't look you in the
eyes and I have to look down andI have to mutter and I can't
talk directly, and this is thedwindling spiral that we're
(21:29):
finding ourselves on is becauseof all of this aberration that's
gone out there and all of these.
You know, I have this disorderand I have that disorder and
they can no longer functionbecause they have an acceptable
truth that allows them and givesthem a pass, instead of being
able to do what it is that theyneed to do, and blaming it on
(21:50):
something else and not takingany responsibility for what it
is that they should be takingresponsibility for, and it's
made okay by the psychologists,psychiatrists, the medical
community and all of that downto where you have restless leg
syndrome.
Yeah, I've met many people withit yeah, so you know the
(22:13):
contagion of aberration, likeyou said.
You know it affects these otheruniverses and in in the
scientology axioms lh talksabout, you know there there are
are the primary above.
The ones that you mentioned areyour universe, my universe and
the agreed upon universe and youhave so much agreement on.
(22:34):
This is what everybody isseeing, especially in social
media.
You know it's got millions andmillions of views.
It must be the truth becauseit's on YouTube or it's on
TikTok or whatever, and allthese people are looking at it
and you're getting theseresponses and communication
about it.
If you read some of thecomments comments it doesn't
take you very long to look athow aberrated the people that
(22:56):
are commenting are and they'revalidating they're validating
bad behavior, and it's okay,it's been made okay and that is
the agreed upon universe as well.
gosh, smartphones have only beenaround since about 2006, and
they're early, early versions.
Before that, all you had waswhat you saw in advertising in
(23:20):
media.
Now you have this portal ofagreement that causes things to
slide and domino that muchfaster because there's so many
people seeing the same thing.
That's being made okay, right,and that's that's a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, and I think that when we look at your
universe, the other person'suniverse and the agreed upon
universe, when we look at itfrom that perspective, it's like
if, if, if I'm a part of theagreed upon universe, what is my
contribution to that universe?
(24:03):
What is my contribution to that?
What is my contribution to theagreed upon universe?
One of the things that I enjoydoing I enjoy sitting down and
eating together as a family.
That's really important to meand so wherever I am in those
spaces yeah, wherever I am inthose spaces I want to make that
that's my universe and that'smy own personal universe and
other people can have their ownuniverse too but I try to make
(24:26):
that be a contribution to theagreed upon universe at some
level, at some way.
Like, let's sit down and eat asa family, let's make this a real
thing and let's agree that thishas value, even if it's just
because I value it, you knowwhat I mean.
Let's agree that it has valueand let's sit down and have a
meal.
I'm not saying every moment,every day, every time, but it
(24:49):
feels good to me to be able todo that, and might it feel good
to you.
Might we come into agreementthat this is the case.
How many of us have that in2025?
You know what I mean.
How many of us have it, that dowe sit down and eat dinner
together as a family anymore?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, well, you did that when you were here.
We all sat down as a unitthat's my point Trainees and all
that stuff and we sat down andthis allows you and your phones
you know it's your phones gosomewhere else.
Don't be looking at your phonemore at the table, whether it's
at home or out those, thosephones, do not come up above
that table when we are outeating, because this is when we
(25:29):
break bread and we communicateand we look each other in the
eye and talk and talk for God'ssakes instead of talking to
somebody else on the other endof a phone.
That's what needs to happen andthat's how you create charity at
home by having time to talk toeach other.
As long as there's noevaluation, no invalidation,
(25:51):
everybody is sharing theirviewpoints and opinions.
You know how was your day, tellme your tales, you know all
that stuff, what happened, andshare this stuff.
But you, you, you see abreakdown on that when you're
using a phone because they'relooking to see if they were,
they were double blue ticked ornot on WhatsApp.
Did they see what I said?
You know and did theyacknowledge and all of that?
(26:14):
I mean you know thecommunication cycle is extremely
important, as is, you know, theauditor's code thing that I
just mentioned about evaluationand validation.
But you've got to be able togrant your kids being this, your
friends being this, and it's Imean, let's just face it, it is
downright disrespectful whenyou're sitting at a table with
somebody else or somebody else's, and they sit there and grab
(26:36):
their phone and look at theirphone while you're eating with
them.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I never taught I never.
I never acknowledged you, never, talked to you, never.
It's just, it's just a weird,it's a weird thing in today's
society that that's the case.
And I'm and and let me be clear, I'm 43 years old, so I'm not
like super old, but but I, Iwanted to be clear that it's
(27:01):
more to me, it's more about thevalue of the moment versus the
mechanism of it, right?
And I think, um, as I wastalking about the, the four
universes that Hillary talksabout, if you look at it from a
physical universe matter, energy, space and time moment and then
the bodies being there in thatmatter, energy, space and time
(27:25):
moment, having dinner, enjoyingeach other's company, on
whatever level what does that dofor the second universe, which
is the mind, and what does thatdo for the first universe, which
is the spirit?
Right?
So first universe is spirit.
Second universe is mind.
Third universe is physical bodyand fourth universe is the
physical universe, the matter,energy, space and time.
(27:47):
So all of those universes arethere, present in that moment,
having this experience.
Think that again, I go deep onit, but I'm saying it from the
perspective of when you thinkabout the behaviors, of your own
behaviors, when you think aboutthe behaviors of others, the
people that are around you, yourparents, your friends, your,
(28:08):
whatever.
When you think about this, whatare you really getting from it?
Like, how is this reallyimpacting you If it's just, oh,
we just chilling, we just having, you't you know, some, some
wine, or watching tv or whatever, whatever?
Okay, cool.
But what is really happeningacross all your universes, and
is this the way you want to uh,be formed up or informed about,
(28:35):
uh, who you are becoming and whoyou are to be?
I just think it's important tolook at it that way.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, well, it's paramount to have your values
towards the people in your lifeand how you treat them, and that
you treat them with respect andyou're not looking at your
phone or distracted or whateverwhen they're talking to you.
You're engaged with them andyou have to grant them beingness
(29:01):
and go.
Okay, you know this.
This is what's important to meand that's something that's been
lost in this.
This society is because of.
A phone replaces a live humanbeing, based off of what you
know, the.
The second most senior particlein the physical universe below
admiration is attention.
So if you can get attentionfrom however many people on your
(29:24):
phone as opposed to one personsitting in front of you, guess
what?
You've been counterfeited.
Yeah, and I think that that'sone of the big problems that we
see.
It's not real.
I can get the attention ofmillions of people, in some
cases with you know theseinfluencers and stuff like that,
and you can just see howaberrated they are because of
(29:46):
this misspent, misplacedattention.
It's not the kind of attentionyou want, it's just attention.
You know there's there'sdifferent values of of attention
.
There's just.
I'm just looking at it becauseeverybody else is looking at it.
I'm looking at it because whatyou say is true.
I'm looking at it because youknow what you're talking about.
(30:08):
I mean, you know, agreementdoesn't have to mean that it's
true, which goes back to thepodcast on lies is what?
What is it that you're?
You're, you're taking in fromthe mass media, the social media
, as opposed to what your momand dad had to say, and you
resent your mom and dad becausethey're telling you what to do
or whatever.
Well, that's just how ithappens.
But you also have to haverespect for your parents and,
(30:32):
dare I say, your elders andeverything, and you can learn a
lot more from an older personthan you can a younger person,
and you have to understand thatand get it across to your kids
and follow through andcommunicate with them and all of
that.
Otherwise you're going to have amore aberrated generation.
You're going to wonder what thehell happened to these
grandkids of mine.
Where did they get it from?
(30:52):
Oh wait, they got it from mykids.
Who got it from me, and so on.
You know, it just continuesforward.
So you have to be able tounderstand the basics of life,
and that's what independentscientology and dianetics can
give you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
If you just read some of the basic books like news
land on life, fundamentals ofthought, that type of thing well
, and and this is also and we wedid a podcast on this a while
back as well but this is alsowhy, in my opinion, um, why
studying as an independentscientologist has allowed me to
develop a greater sense ofmorality, and I'll use that word
(31:34):
, a greater sense of morality,uh, which in scientology we call
it ethics and so on and so on,but it, but I see the, I see the
humanity in it, I see the, thecare and the love and the and
the heart of it.
Because even just theconversation we're having right
now the whole topic of thatwe're talking about is charity
begins at home.
(31:54):
Charity is another word.
Another word for that is love,right, and so it's like, if this
love isn't displayed at home,if it's not given at home, where
would this person go and seekit?
Where are they going to seekthe love?
Where are they going to get theadmiration, the attention?
(32:15):
Where are they going to get it?
They're going somewhere to getit because they didn't get it
the right way at home.
And I'm saying that not from ajudgmental perspective, but more
so from a perspective of if wetake a look and evaluate the
data, evaluate the facts of whatit is that we have here?
(32:36):
You look at it and I seestudying as an independent
Scientologist as like, oh, wow,I really get the heart of this.
This goes back to not just ourbehaviors, not just, oh, we just
sit down having a breakingbread and eat some meatloaf, not
just that, no, no, no, there'sa mind back of that.
(32:57):
You got it.
There's a mind back of that.
There's a spirit that's beingimpacted here and of course, you
would get that as platitudesand coming up and respect your
elders and da-da-da-da.
You would get all that kind ofstuff growing up.
(33:30):
But when I really start to diveinto the mechanisms of it which
is what I gained with studyingas an independent Scientologist
when you really get themechanisms of it, I'm like, oh,
that is a big decision to saylet's sit down and eat together.
That is a big decision to goand get auditing so that I don't
continue to mess up these otheruniverses, continue to mess up
these other universes.
That is a big decision toactually sit down and confront
my own shit so that I'm not thenspreading this shit everywhere
around.
Everybody that I associate with.
It's a big deal.
(33:50):
And the people that I associatewith do I want to associate with
people who don't want to bebetter, who don't want to get
their mind right, who don't wantto move from a place of spirit
the first universe who don'twant to move from a place of
spirit, who don't want to gettheir mind right, and their
behaviors and their universedisplays it.
Look at their physical universe, look at what's around them,
(34:12):
look at their homes, look attheir cars, look at their life.
Look at it, you can see it.
You can see it, you can see it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's always palpable.
I mean you can like LRA saysyou can judge people by their
mess, and I mean there are a lotof indicators that can show
that.
And you know it also starts offwith not from a flow one others
to you, but a flow two you toothers, where the two rules of
happy living are basically do itto others that you would want
(34:41):
done unto you and be able toexperience anything.
Don't cause effects otherscan't easily have.
And that comes down to is youryard messy?
Do you have three cars that arehalf apart sitting in the front
yard and chickens runningaround?
You know all that stuff.
You can see this and these arebasics that you learn in
(35:02):
independent Scientology orderversus disorder, the complexity
and confronting we've talkedabout in a bunch of the podcasts
and stuff like that.
There's all these basics thatif you take the time to do that
with your children and make surethat they understand it look,
don't listen from the liespodcast, all these simple little
(35:24):
datums you're creating a betterfuture for this planet and for
your family and other families.
Instead of a contagion ofaberration, you've got a
contagion of analytical thinkingIf you put it there and you
take the time to do that withyour kids, your friends and all
that, and that's incrediblyimportant because values are
(35:47):
being chipped away every day onthis planet yeah I mean, I see
it all the time, you know, inthe malls and stuff like that
and it.
It blows me away that people dothings now that you and I would
have never seen in the 80s and90s.
It's just unconscionable theway people treat each other.
They don't thank each other,they don't say please, there's
(36:09):
no manners.
Manners is incredibly importantand it shows respect and that's
important that children, adultsunderstand respect and treat
each other the way they want tobe treated and that's how we
prevent a contagion ofaberration.
In my opinion, in LRH's opinionas well.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Right.
I want to share this becauseLRH says at the end of this
lecture I'm going to give youthe exact reference Hold on a
second.
It's universes, uh, given 7april 1959.
It's a lecture called universesand um, he says at the end of
it.
He says so his condition ofbody stems from his condition of
(36:54):
mind and his ability to observethe physical universe stems
directly from his own conceptthe first universe ability to
perceive and create.
So your condition of the bodystems from the condition of the
mind and his ability to observethe physical universe stems
(37:14):
directly from his own conceptthe first universe ability to
perceive and create.
So we're interested, basically,then, in this second universe.
We can know this most easily,we can take it apart most
readily, and by doing so we cangraduate upstairs to the point
of knowingness on the otherthree universes.
(37:39):
So our immediate focus ofaddress is upon the second
universe, the universe of themind, and we'll look that over
and see what makes it that way,the way we approach this in
independent Scientology.
Our most immediate focus is theuniverse of the mind, because
(38:02):
your body stems from theconditions of the mind and your
ability to perceive the physicaluniverse is from your ability
to perceive and create as aspiritual being.
This is how we go at it, and sowhen we talk about getting in
session, when we talk aboutgetting auditing, when we talk
about going up the bridge, talkabout getting in session.
When we talk about gettingauditing, when we talk about
going up the bridge, all we'retalking about is, if you're
(38:22):
looking at your physicaluniverse, stuff and be like this
ain't how I wanted this, thisain't how I wanted my body to
feel and to look.
This is not how I wanted myphysical universe, my mess, to
feel and look and be.
If you want to improve thosehaving this kind of things,
let's address the seconduniverse, which is the mind,
which then impacts and addressesthe first universe as the
(38:43):
spirit, as the being, and that'swhat going up the bridge
actually is.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Right and that improves your ability to prevent
a contagion of aberration,because as you get better, you
will choose better people andthat will propagate out amongst
other people where you have safespaces and you can exist and
(39:09):
not be in fear of what peopleare going to say and low-toned
evaluations and covert hostilityand all of that stuff.
But you and it's one thing wehaven't mentioned is well, we
have in a way is that you haveto have respect for yourself in
order to have respect for otherpeople.
I think that's it's a key point, because if you don't respect
(39:31):
yourself, how can you respectanybody, anybody else?
you're back right yeah yeah,that part yeah I, I got the last
(39:54):
part respect yourself right,yeah, you got to respect
yourself and and that's very,very important and you have to
get that across to, I mean, youknow, if, if you let people
disrespect you, what have yougot?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Listen, listen, I'm telling you that, that that for
me, and maybe because I'm a Leorising or whatever, but that for
me, like I need, I need thatrespect and loyalty are two very
, very important things to me.
Especially for me is respectand loyalty are very important,
and and so don't do that, Don't,don't disrespect me.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't.
Accept the bad behaviors ofother people and make it okay.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
No, uh-uh, no, not in my presence.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, that's a huge thing when it comes to contagion
of aberration, because when youdo that, things get a lot worse
, a lot faster.
Oh, he accepted that.
Oh, okay, I'll treat him thatway from now on because he'll
let me get away with it.
You know, or she, whatever andthat is a huge part of contagion
evaboration is what you makeokay and what you will not stand
(41:03):
for.
So I hope this has been helpfulto our listeners and it's a
little bit of a differentsubject matter than we normally
talk about.
But it needs to be said andit's food for thought, both as a
parent and as a friend and as asignificant other, that this
(41:24):
contagion of aberration does nothave to be continued and you
can fix it through training andauditing an independent
Scientologist.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Well, I was going to end off by saying that very
point that studying and being oncourse and getting the tech in
it's a protection.
It really is a protection,increasing and expanding your
(41:59):
knowingness, you know with, bystudying, by getting in session
and improving in yourresponsibility and increasing
your responsibility on how youhandle things and what you're
able to handle in life.
It's a protection, man, and, ifnothing else, protect yourself,
protect yourself and with thiskind of tech you have, I would
(42:24):
call it an ultimate protectionfrom the stuff that really can
mess you up, whatever particulartrouble sources, to all this
other stuff like stuff that canreally mess you up.
If you know what you're doingand you know how to apply it and
you do apply it, you areprotected.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Right Period.
If you understand it, you can'tbe the adverse effect of it.
There you go.
There you go so for all of ourlisteners.
We hope you've enjoyed thepodcast and we will see you next
week.
For quentin and myself, namaste, and we love you.
Bye-bye, peace, thank you.
Thank you, thanks for watching.
Hi, welcome to another Scientology Outside of
the Church podcast.
This is season 11, episode 15,and this one is going to be
about the contagion ofaberration, both in the home and
in society.
I'm here with Quentin Stroud.
(00:23):
Quentin, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Good, me too.
We're going to dive right intothis.
What is a contagion ofaberration from an independent
Scientology standpoint?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
aberration from an independent Scientology
standpoint.
So definitely understandingthat when there is aberration
about right, in people, in thepeople that are around you, in
situations around you, thataberration can shift over or can
be infected is how LRH calls it.
(01:02):
It can infect someone else, andso when we talk about, charity
begins at home.
It really is a beautiful way ofsaying don't fuck up your kids.
How many, how many times havewe perhaps allowed some of that
(01:27):
contagion to rub off or toaffect, you know, those around
us, or be affected by, beaffected by that kind of
contagion, by that kind ofaberration?
And so we have to be verycareful of that and why.
This is the kind of space, asindependent Scientologists, we
want to foster, a space thatkind of breaks that cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, and it's also important to note that there are
lots of defining factors on howthis happens, both in society
and well, what the originalpodcast title was was you know,
charity begins at home and whatyou teach your kids, what you do
(02:15):
with your kids, is what theylearn from as an example, and
this carries over to friends.
It carries over to friends, itcarries over to relationships,
and the big A word agreement iswhat causes this, because if you
make something okay, thenpeople will follow suit,
(02:41):
especially if you're an opinionleader.
So that's important is you needto lead by example.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right.
And who are our first opinionleaders?
But our parents, right.
Who are our first opinionleaders?
But the people who we look upto or we look to around us, and
even as we get older, then itbecomes our friends, right, our
friends become the opinionleaders because we care about
what they think.
Of course, you know, and so allof these things matter.
(03:10):
Lrh says here in Dianetics,contagion of Apparition.
He says the mechanisms aresimple People under stress, if
aberrated, dramatize engrams.
Such dramatization may involvethe injury of another person and
render him more or lessunconscious.
The unconscious person thenreceives as an engram the
(03:32):
dramatization, right.
And so, quite simply, it sayshere that the parent how is it
the parent that can infect theirchild with N-grams?
Aberrated parents are certainto affect their child with
N-grams.
And so we have to be mindful ofthe things that, as we're going
(03:56):
through life, are you beingyourself or are you dramatizing
somebody else's dramatization,somebody else's ingratitude,
somebody else's stuff, right?
How many times have you heardsomebody say well, you look just
like your mama, you sound justlike your mama, you sound just
like your daddy?
Right, and it's something thatwe could continue to dramatize
(04:19):
over and over and over again,not even aware of it, not even
aware of it below our consciouslevel of awareness, and this
then becomes what we wouldconsider our personality.
That's just the way.
It is just the way I am.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Right, right, and that follows the LRH datum.
Of that, a person takes on theweaker valence, especially in a
family unit, because it gets themost attention.
So they're going to take onthose things that they see are
successful in getting attention,which is a really slippery
(04:55):
slope, and that is, you know,that's part of that, leading by
example type of a thing, andthat's why it's important to you
know, I mean, you know in aperfect sense, get auditing and
fix these things that areaffecting you, that then have a
(05:16):
domino effect on your children,your grandchildren, your
great-grandchildren, that typeof a thing, because this stuff
echoes down through thegenerations.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And anybody around you like I mean a society.
You can be dramatizing theaberration of a society, of a
culture, of a people, of acommunity.
Right, look at New York.
If you go to New York City, youknow, if you go to certain
parts of the world, you can seepeople dramatizing just even in
(05:44):
the way they speak, even the waythey talk to you.
You can see them dramatizingsomething.
It was like, well, what did Ido to you?
You know, yeah, and it's likenothing, I'm not even mad, but
the way you're coming at me, itsounds like it, you know yeah,
you have these, these mannerismsof.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You know the different bor, different
boroughs in New York and the waythat they behave, whether
you're in the Bronx or you're inQueens or you're in New Jersey,
they have these particularaccents and behaviors and
mannerisms.
You know, are you talking to me?
Are you talking to me?
You know that kind of attitudetype of a thing, because that's
(06:25):
what you have to have to survivein that particular area and
that is a prime example of, Imean, you know the, the
aggressiveness in order tosurvive, because if you don't
respond that way, you're asucker and you're weaker.
So that's a prime example ofcontagion evaboration.
(06:50):
And you see in social media,these influencers, and that's a
huge, huge thing, because theissue is, when you have somebody
that is an influencer in modernday technology and society,
they're influencing people forthings they shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Honestly, you know, and the priorities get mixed up
and especially when you're youngand you're impressionable,
you're going to go intoagreement with this, and the
kids see this on social mediaand then they come home and then
now they're passing it on as adomino effect to their parents
that this is the thing, whetherit's the latest lingo, the
(07:39):
expressions of that generation,or it's what's acceptable.
The expressions of thatgeneration or it's what's
acceptable.
You know, here in South Africathe parents come into a store
and they buy edible marijuanagummies with their kids.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
With the kids, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Right.
What kind of parent is that?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Or smoking and drinking with the kids.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right and that's a huge issue is you need to lead
by example, because if you don't, all you're doing is passing on
this contagion of aberration.
And that also comes down to Imean, even hundreds of years
later, people are still behavinglike their forefathers, many
(08:24):
generations down, and peopledon't understand where that
comes from, but it's there, it'spart of the fabric of the way
that their parents, theirgrandparents, behaved the way
that they do their ethics level,how they approach things with
people, how they communicate andall of this.
And we're seeing this much moreso because of the speed of
(08:46):
technology.
You can see anything across theplanet in the blink of an eye
if you have a decent internetconnection or a cell connection,
and that's how these things getstarted.
What was it?
The washing machine detergentwhere kids were drinking.
Washing machine.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Tide pods.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The Tide pods, the washing machine detergent where
kids were drinking washing pots,the tide pods, tide pods and
and killing themselves becauseit was a trending thing.
If that's not contagionevaporation, I don't know what
it is.
Yeah, because somebody else didit.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I saw it on tiktok yeah, it was the same yeah, and
then that's the only word for itright, right.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
And then you know that gets into media and and all
of that and and goes back toour podcast on.
You know the only way tocontrol a person is a lie to
them, but that's that's also alearned behavior in a contagion
evaporation.
You know what your kids learnedat home and the way that you
you're going back to theoriginal title of the podcast.
(09:46):
You know charity begins at homeis when you have somebody who's
in your family.
You have to follow through andyou have to put in ethics and
morals in order for them to be adecent person.
And they're only you.
The kids and the grandkids areonly gonna be as good as you are
(10:07):
.
And that comes down to yourtone scale, comes down to your
chart of human evaluation.
And this is part of the reasonwhy we see the dwindling spiral
in society is because of theseleading by bad examples.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, and I think that what I like to, how I like
to lay it out, is you're notjust looking at, you're not just
looking at behaviors, right,we're not just talking about
behaviors, because LRH talksabout the four universes and he
talks about how each universe isits own, but it's also
(10:50):
intimately acquainted orintimately connected with the
next universe.
So the first universe, ofcourse, is the universal spirit,
right, you as a spiritual being.
The first universe is spirit.
The second universe is mind,right, the third universe is the
physical body and the fourthuniverse is the physical
universe outside the body, right.
(11:11):
And so when you see thesebehaviors and and we recognize
and we just think that, oh,you're just misbehaving, right,
you're just misbehaving, butit's not just misbehaving.
So, so, so the kids go and andand get the edible gummies from
(11:32):
the market, thinking it's justcandy and they just want to, you
know whatever, with the parents, and we would think that, oh,
it's just poor behavior, you'rejust making a poor choice by
that.
But what's not considered andthis is why I like to go deep,
because I'm a Pisces, we like togo deep into things that that
that physical universe item, thelittle gummy Right, can affect
(11:57):
the body, affect the mind, and,because they're all intimately
connected, these universesaffect the spirit, and so you're
not just talking about badbehavior.
When you're talking about, likeyou know, watching certain
things on social media, orparents doing this, or kids
acting because they see theirfriends doing stuff, it's not
(12:31):
just a behavioral issue, stuffthat it's just, you know, these
kids have, you know, behaviordisorder or or what's the,
what's the one that was so funnyto me?
Um, confrontational,authoritative, confrontational
disorder, something like that.
They have a problem withauthority or something, and it's
like.
It's like it's not just abehavioral matter here that
we're talking about.
We're talking about these fouruniverses that are intimately
connected and one affects theother, affects the other,
(12:54):
affects the other.
And that's why, as independentScientologists, having this
conversation, I think, with you,as you're listening to this, is
so important.
What is the spiritualimplications of the behaviors,
(13:15):
implications of the behaviorsthat we might be seeing playing
out?
So all you see is the physicalmanifestation, but what's going
on in the mind?
What's going on in the spirit?
And, as independentScientologists, to me that needs
to be the first question.
Not why is Johnny acting somean?
The first question needs to bewhat's going on in the spirit,
what's going on in the mind?
(13:36):
Oh, I see why he's acting thisway.
I see why the physicalbehaviors are showing up this
way, because there's some otherstuff happening here.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Right, and one of the things that you see with the
current generation the teens toearly 20s even older than that
is this sense of entitlementthat they're entitled to much,
much more than they should be,because they haven't experienced
(14:07):
what it is to get a productfrom the viewpoint in
independent Scientology, that aperson is rewarded for the good
products that they create andthat is exchangeable for money
and goods and things like that.
And that is something that isendemic in our society currently
(14:29):
is that you know that peopleexpect to be on the dole or
government handouts and thingslike that, and they're not
producing any product, then theyjust expect to be taken care of
, and we're one step away from auniversal income where people
(14:51):
get paid for doing nothing andthat way they're controlled.
And we need to take a look atthat with our kids and teach
them when they're young that youget rewarded for good
production.
You don't get rewarded for noproduction or bad production or
overt products or overt products, because I mean I hate to say
(15:13):
this, but kids these days don'tget the understanding of
exchange, what it is to exchangea product for one or another,
and this is part of thatcontagion of aberration that's
been taught in schools, taughtin media, you know, is that you
know it's okay to hustlesomebody as long as it makes
money, but somebody else is outmoney because you scammed them.
(15:37):
But that's okay because you werethe one that ended up with the
money, so that's all right andthat's why you see all of this.
Well, I mean, you know thescams that are going on all the
time, whether it's crypto orwhether it's on Facebook or this
or that.
That's a contagion ofaberration.
Because it's been made, okay aslong as it's a hustle and
(15:58):
you're making money, who careshow you made that money?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, I think also too, and even going back further
than that, I remember my son'slittle sisters.
They're twins.
I remember my son's littlesisters they're twins and one
day we went to get them dressedfor church or school or
something like that.
We got that, we went to go getthem dressed and they, after we
(16:30):
got them dressed Emanuela shegoes out and she gets a flower
and it was like right by thefront door.
So she goes to the side andgrabs the flower off the bush
and she comes back in and shehands me this flower and I said,
oh my gosh, thank you so much,like I, this is exactly what I
needed.
And I put it in my ear, youknow, and I said, does it look
good?
You like it?
And she was so elated to giveme this flower and what I wanted
(16:52):
to communicate in that momentthat I accept your exchange.
Right, I accept your exchange.
I helped you get dressed,helped you tie your shoes and
all that stuff, and she wasthree years old, four years old,
whatever she was, and she comesto give me this flower and I
accept your exchange.
Thank you so much.
This is exactly what I neededright now, you know.
(17:14):
So I want her to know that.
But I think that how many timeshas that been just kind of
brushed off?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We ain't got time for that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Come on, we got to go , we got to go to school, we got
to get out of here.
You know how many times has itbeen brushed off when a child
might want to try to offer anexchange, because it's natural,
it's the natural beingness of aspirit to have fair exchange,
because we're inherently good,and yet it becomes almost like
brushed aside or almostconsidered like you wasted my
(17:44):
life, you wasted my time bydoing stuff like this, and so
this is another reason why wetalk, when we talk about charity
begins at home, when we talkabout the contagion of
aberration and how it can messthings up for your children and
for people around you, and so onand so on.
These are little things, but itthrows off what's, what's the
(18:08):
natural beingness of this personthat wants to give this kind of
fair exchange?
right and so then, later on, nowthe child is grown or you know
whatever older, and you can'tget nothing out of them.
You can't get no fair, youcan't.
They want to clean their room,you know whatever right.
Well, how many times has theirexchange been knocked off?
(18:29):
You know throughout thatexperience, that they don't feel
like I have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, you have to let them contribute.
I mean, when I was a kid, I hadchores that I had to do and
that was my contribution to thehousehold.
You did too, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
We had to do chores.
And I told my son I said ain'tnothing free?
I said my son had to pay forhis room.
You want the room, do you wantit?
You got to pay for it.
And so he had to contributefinancially as well.
And I wanted him to understandthat, as you're maturing, as
you're growing up, it's going tobe extremely important for you
(19:08):
to understand how to exchangemoney.
It's going to be extremelyimportant for you to understand
how to exchange money.
I didn't play with money Beforehe got his allowance.
He had to give me an invoiceSunday before midnight.
You had to give me your invoiceSunday before midnight.
Did you do your chores?
Is your homework done?
Whatever the report was for theweek, everything needs to be in
(19:28):
the invoice.
And then at the end of that,when I reviewed it okay, good,
you get paid.
And he got paid that followingFriday, but you had to get it to
me by Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Right.
I mean there has to be anappreciation for the exchange
that is occurring, and that'sone of the things that's missing
in this society is that youknow everybody's on their phone
and they're individuated, andthey don't know how to
communicate because they're ontheir phone all the time.
They haven't even they'reafraid to talk to people because
(20:01):
the only thing they know istheir phone, which is a via for
communication.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not actual communication, right, it's just
a via Right, right Right.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and that's that's that's a that's that's
the big problem is that theydon't have a proper
communication cycle so they'redisconnected from society.
And you know, it's reallyobvious, especially with the
younger generation, that theycan't even confront having a
(20:34):
conversation with an adult.
They just clam up because thephone's been the via, so that's.
You know, that's anothercontagion of aberration.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Ooh, that's.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, that's a good point.
You know we'll say look at,look at me when I'm when we're
talking.
Look at me when we're talkinglike tr zero, like the front.
You know, look look at me whenwe're talking.
You know, don't, don't be inyour phone or don't be.
You know I can't.
I can't because I just I thinkbetter.
(21:05):
I've heard people say that Ithink better when I don't look
at you.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What they gotta do with it, and that is a contagion
of aberration in this society,is that I can't look you in the
eyes and I have to look down andI have to mutter and I can't
talk directly, and this is thedwindling spiral that we're
(21:29):
finding ourselves on is becauseof all of this aberration that's
gone out there and all of these.
You know, I have this disorderand I have that disorder and
they can no longer functionbecause they have an acceptable
truth that allows them and givesthem a pass, instead of being
able to do what it is that theyneed to do, and blaming it on
(21:50):
something else and not takingany responsibility for what it
is that they should be takingresponsibility for, and it's
made okay by the psychologists,psychiatrists, the medical
community and all of that downto where you have restless leg
syndrome.
Yeah, I've met many people withit yeah, so you know the
(22:13):
contagion of aberration, likeyou said.
You know it affects these otheruniverses and in in the
scientology axioms lh talksabout, you know there there are
are the primary above.
The ones that you mentioned areyour universe, my universe and
the agreed upon universe and youhave so much agreement on.
(22:34):
This is what everybody isseeing, especially in social
media.
You know it's got millions andmillions of views.
It must be the truth becauseit's on YouTube or it's on
TikTok or whatever, and allthese people are looking at it
and you're getting theseresponses and communication
about it.
If you read some of thecomments comments it doesn't
take you very long to look athow aberrated the people that
(22:56):
are commenting are and they'revalidating they're validating
bad behavior, and it's okay,it's been made okay and that is
the agreed upon universe as well.
gosh, smartphones have only beenaround since about 2006, and
they're early, early versions.
Before that, all you had waswhat you saw in advertising in
(23:20):
media.
Now you have this portal ofagreement that causes things to
slide and domino that muchfaster because there's so many
people seeing the same thing.
That's being made okay, right,and that's that's a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, and I think that when we look at your
universe, the other person'suniverse and the agreed upon
universe, when we look at itfrom that perspective, it's like
if, if, if I'm a part of theagreed upon universe, what is my
contribution to that universe?
(24:03):
What is my contribution to that?
What is my contribution to theagreed upon universe?
One of the things that I enjoydoing I enjoy sitting down and
eating together as a family.
That's really important to meand so wherever I am in those
spaces yeah, wherever I am inthose spaces I want to make that
that's my universe and that'smy own personal universe and
other people can have their ownuniverse too but I try to make
(24:26):
that be a contribution to theagreed upon universe at some
level, at some way.
Like, let's sit down and eat asa family, let's make this a real
thing and let's agree that thishas value, even if it's just
because I value it, you knowwhat I mean.
Let's agree that it has valueand let's sit down and have a
meal.
I'm not saying every moment,every day, every time, but it
(24:49):
feels good to me to be able todo that, and might it feel good
to you.
Might we come into agreementthat this is the case.
How many of us have that in2025?
You know what I mean.
How many of us have it, that dowe sit down and eat dinner
together as a family anymore?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, well, you did that when you were here.
We all sat down as a unitthat's my point Trainees and all
that stuff and we sat down andthis allows you and your phones
you know it's your phones gosomewhere else.
Don't be looking at your phonemore at the table, whether it's
at home or out those, thosephones, do not come up above
that table when we are outeating, because this is when we
(25:29):
break bread and we communicateand we look each other in the
eye and talk and talk for God'ssakes instead of talking to
somebody else on the other endof a phone.
That's what needs to happen andthat's how you create charity at
home by having time to talk toeach other.
As long as there's noevaluation, no invalidation,
(25:51):
everybody is sharing theirviewpoints and opinions.
You know how was your day, tellme your tales, you know all
that stuff, what happened, andshare this stuff.
But you, you, you see abreakdown on that when you're
using a phone because they'relooking to see if they were,
they were double blue ticked ornot on WhatsApp.
Did they see what I said?
You know and did theyacknowledge and all of that?
(26:14):
I mean you know thecommunication cycle is extremely
important, as is, you know, theauditor's code thing that I
just mentioned about evaluationand validation.
But you've got to be able togrant your kids being this, your
friends being this, and it's Imean, let's just face it, it is
downright disrespectful whenyou're sitting at a table with
somebody else or somebody else's, and they sit there and grab
(26:36):
their phone and look at theirphone while you're eating with
them.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I never taught I never.
I never acknowledged you, never, talked to you, never.
It's just, it's just a weird,it's a weird thing in today's
society that that's the case.
And I'm and and let me be clear, I'm 43 years old, so I'm not
like super old, but but I, Iwanted to be clear that it's
(27:01):
more to me, it's more about thevalue of the moment versus the
mechanism of it, right?
And I think, um, as I wastalking about the, the four
universes that Hillary talksabout, if you look at it from a
physical universe matter, energy, space and time moment and then
the bodies being there in thatmatter, energy, space and time
(27:25):
moment, having dinner, enjoyingeach other's company, on
whatever level what does that dofor the second universe, which
is the mind, and what does thatdo for the first universe, which
is the spirit?
Right?
So first universe is spirit.
Second universe is mind.
Third universe is physical bodyand fourth universe is the
physical universe, the matter,energy, space and time.
(27:47):
So all of those universes arethere, present in that moment,
having this experience.
Think that again, I go deep onit, but I'm saying it from the
perspective of when you thinkabout the behaviors, of your own
behaviors, when you think aboutthe behaviors of others, the
people that are around you, yourparents, your friends, your,
(28:08):
whatever.
When you think about this, whatare you really getting from it?
Like, how is this reallyimpacting you If it's just, oh,
we just chilling, we just having, you't you know, some, some
wine, or watching tv or whatever, whatever?
Okay, cool.
But what is really happeningacross all your universes, and
is this the way you want to uh,be formed up or informed about,
(28:35):
uh, who you are becoming and whoyou are to be?
I just think it's important tolook at it that way.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, well, it's paramount to have your values
towards the people in your lifeand how you treat them, and that
you treat them with respect andyou're not looking at your
phone or distracted or whateverwhen they're talking to you.
You're engaged with them andyou have to grant them beingness
(29:01):
and go.
Okay, you know this.
This is what's important to meand that's something that's been
lost in this.
This society is because of.
A phone replaces a live humanbeing, based off of what you
know, the.
The second most senior particlein the physical universe below
admiration is attention.
So if you can get attentionfrom however many people on your
(29:24):
phone as opposed to one personsitting in front of you, guess
what?
You've been counterfeited.
Yeah, and I think that that'sone of the big problems that we
see.
It's not real.
I can get the attention ofmillions of people, in some
cases with you know theseinfluencers and stuff like that,
and you can just see howaberrated they are because of
(29:46):
this misspent, misplacedattention.
It's not the kind of attentionyou want, it's just attention.
You know there's there'sdifferent values of of attention
.
There's just.
I'm just looking at it becauseeverybody else is looking at it.
I'm looking at it because whatyou say is true.
I'm looking at it because youknow what you're talking about.
(30:08):
I mean, you know, agreementdoesn't have to mean that it's
true, which goes back to thepodcast on lies is what?
What is it that you're?
You're, you're taking in fromthe mass media, the social media
, as opposed to what your momand dad had to say, and you
resent your mom and dad becausethey're telling you what to do
or whatever.
Well, that's just how ithappens.
But you also have to haverespect for your parents and,
(30:32):
dare I say, your elders andeverything, and you can learn a
lot more from an older personthan you can a younger person,
and you have to understand thatand get it across to your kids
and follow through andcommunicate with them and all of
that.
Otherwise you're going to have amore aberrated generation.
You're going to wonder what thehell happened to these
grandkids of mine.
Where did they get it from?
(30:52):
Oh wait, they got it from mykids.
Who got it from me, and so on.
You know, it just continuesforward.
So you have to be able tounderstand the basics of life,
and that's what independentscientology and dianetics can
give you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
If you just read some of the basic books like news
land on life, fundamentals ofthought, that type of thing well
, and and this is also and we wedid a podcast on this a while
back as well but this is alsowhy, in my opinion, um, why
studying as an independentscientologist has allowed me to
develop a greater sense ofmorality, and I'll use that word
(31:34):
, a greater sense of morality,uh, which in scientology we call
it ethics and so on and so on,but it, but I see the, I see the
humanity in it, I see the, thecare and the love and the and
the heart of it.
Because even just theconversation we're having right
now the whole topic of thatwe're talking about is charity
begins at home.
(31:54):
Charity is another word.
Another word for that is love,right, and so it's like, if this
love isn't displayed at home,if it's not given at home, where
would this person go and seekit?
Where are they going to seekthe love?
Where are they going to get theadmiration, the attention?
(32:15):
Where are they going to get it?
They're going somewhere to getit because they didn't get it
the right way at home.
And I'm saying that not from ajudgmental perspective, but more
so from a perspective of if wetake a look and evaluate the
data, evaluate the facts of whatit is that we have here?
(32:36):
You look at it and I seestudying as an independent
Scientologist as like, oh, wow,I really get the heart of this.
This goes back to not just ourbehaviors, not just, oh, we just
sit down having a breakingbread and eat some meatloaf, not
just that, no, no, no, there'sa mind back of that.
(32:57):
You got it.
There's a mind back of that.
There's a spirit that's beingimpacted here and of course, you
would get that as platitudesand coming up and respect your
elders and da-da-da-da.
You would get all that kind ofstuff growing up.
(33:30):
But when I really start to diveinto the mechanisms of it which
is what I gained with studyingas an independent Scientologist
when you really get themechanisms of it, I'm like, oh,
that is a big decision to saylet's sit down and eat together.
That is a big decision to goand get auditing so that I don't
continue to mess up these otheruniverses, continue to mess up
these other universes.
That is a big decision toactually sit down and confront
my own shit so that I'm not thenspreading this shit everywhere
around.
Everybody that I associate with.
It's a big deal.
(33:50):
And the people that I associatewith do I want to associate with
people who don't want to bebetter, who don't want to get
their mind right, who don't wantto move from a place of spirit
the first universe who don'twant to move from a place of
spirit, who don't want to gettheir mind right, and their
behaviors and their universedisplays it.
Look at their physical universe, look at what's around them,
(34:12):
look at their homes, look attheir cars, look at their life.
Look at it, you can see it.
You can see it, you can see it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's always palpable.
I mean you can like LRA saysyou can judge people by their
mess, and I mean there are a lotof indicators that can show
that.
And you know it also starts offwith not from a flow one others
to you, but a flow two you toothers, where the two rules of
happy living are basically do itto others that you would want
(34:41):
done unto you and be able toexperience anything.
Don't cause effects otherscan't easily have.
And that comes down to is youryard messy?
Do you have three cars that arehalf apart sitting in the front
yard and chickens runningaround?
You know all that stuff.
You can see this and these arebasics that you learn in
(35:02):
independent Scientology orderversus disorder, the complexity
and confronting we've talkedabout in a bunch of the podcasts
and stuff like that.
There's all these basics thatif you take the time to do that
with your children and make surethat they understand it look,
don't listen from the liespodcast, all these simple little
(35:24):
datums you're creating a betterfuture for this planet and for
your family and other families.
Instead of a contagion ofaberration, you've got a
contagion of analytical thinkingIf you put it there and you
take the time to do that withyour kids, your friends and all
that, and that's incrediblyimportant because values are
(35:47):
being chipped away every day onthis planet yeah I mean, I see
it all the time, you know, inthe malls and stuff like that
and it.
It blows me away that people dothings now that you and I would
have never seen in the 80s and90s.
It's just unconscionable theway people treat each other.
They don't thank each other,they don't say please, there's
(36:09):
no manners.
Manners is incredibly importantand it shows respect and that's
important that children, adultsunderstand respect and treat
each other the way they want tobe treated and that's how we
prevent a contagion ofaberration.
In my opinion, in LRH's opinionas well.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Right.
I want to share this becauseLRH says at the end of this
lecture I'm going to give youthe exact reference Hold on a
second.
It's universes, uh, given 7april 1959.
It's a lecture called universesand um, he says at the end of
it.
He says so his condition ofbody stems from his condition of
(36:54):
mind and his ability to observethe physical universe stems
directly from his own conceptthe first universe ability to
perceive and create.
So your condition of the bodystems from the condition of the
mind and his ability to observethe physical universe stems
(37:14):
directly from his own conceptthe first universe ability to
perceive and create.
So we're interested, basically,then, in this second universe.
We can know this most easily,we can take it apart most
readily, and by doing so we cangraduate upstairs to the point
of knowingness on the otherthree universes.
(37:39):
So our immediate focus ofaddress is upon the second
universe, the universe of themind, and we'll look that over
and see what makes it that way,the way we approach this in
independent Scientology.
Our most immediate focus is theuniverse of the mind, because
(38:02):
your body stems from theconditions of the mind and your
ability to perceive the physicaluniverse is from your ability
to perceive and create as aspiritual being.
This is how we go at it, and sowhen we talk about getting in
session, when we talk aboutgetting auditing, when we talk
about going up the bridge, talkabout getting in session.
When we talk about gettingauditing, when we talk about
going up the bridge, all we'retalking about is, if you're
(38:22):
looking at your physicaluniverse, stuff and be like this
ain't how I wanted this, thisain't how I wanted my body to
feel and to look.
This is not how I wanted myphysical universe, my mess, to
feel and look and be.
If you want to improve thosehaving this kind of things,
let's address the seconduniverse, which is the mind,
which then impacts and addressesthe first universe as the
(38:43):
spirit, as the being, and that'swhat going up the bridge
actually is.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Right and that improves your ability to prevent
a contagion of aberration,because as you get better, you
will choose better people andthat will propagate out amongst
other people where you have safespaces and you can exist and
(39:09):
not be in fear of what peopleare going to say and low-toned
evaluations and covert hostilityand all of that stuff.
But you and it's one thing wehaven't mentioned is well, we
have in a way is that you haveto have respect for yourself in
order to have respect for otherpeople.
I think that's it's a key point, because if you don't respect
(39:31):
yourself, how can you respectanybody, anybody else?
you're back right yeah yeah,that part yeah I, I got the last
(39:54):
part respect yourself right,yeah, you got to respect
yourself and and that's very,very important and you have to
get that across to, I mean, youknow, if, if you let people
disrespect you, what have yougot?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Listen, listen, I'm telling you that, that that for
me, and maybe because I'm a Leorising or whatever, but that for
me, like I need, I need thatrespect and loyalty are two very
, very important things to me.
Especially for me is respectand loyalty are very important,
and and so don't do that, Don't,don't disrespect me.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't.
Accept the bad behaviors ofother people and make it okay.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
No, uh-uh, no, not in my presence.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, that's a huge thing when it comes to contagion
of aberration, because when youdo that, things get a lot worse
, a lot faster.
Oh, he accepted that.
Oh, okay, I'll treat him thatway from now on because he'll
let me get away with it.
You know, or she, whatever andthat is a huge part of contagion
evaboration is what you makeokay and what you will not stand
(41:03):
for.
So I hope this has been helpfulto our listeners and it's a
little bit of a differentsubject matter than we normally
talk about.
But it needs to be said andit's food for thought, both as a
parent and as a friend and as asignificant other, that this
(41:24):
contagion of aberration does nothave to be continued and you
can fix it through training andauditing an independent
Scientologist.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Well, I was going to end off by saying that very
point that studying and being oncourse and getting the tech in
it's a protection.
It really is a protection,increasing and expanding your
(41:59):
knowingness, you know with, bystudying, by getting in session
and improving in yourresponsibility and increasing
your responsibility on how youhandle things and what you're
able to handle in life.
It's a protection, man, and, ifnothing else, protect yourself,
protect yourself and with thiskind of tech you have, I would
(42:24):
call it an ultimate protectionfrom the stuff that really can
mess you up, whatever particulartrouble sources, to all this
other stuff like stuff that canreally mess you up.
If you know what you're doingand you know how to apply it and
you do apply it, you areprotected.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Right Period.
If you understand it, you can'tbe the adverse effect of it.
There you go.
There you go so for all of ourlisteners.
We hope you've enjoyed thepodcast and we will see you next
week.
For quentin and myself, namaste, and we love you.
Bye-bye, peace, thank you.
Thank you, thanks for watching.
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