February 21, 2025 • 37 mins
In Episode 27 of Scoreboard, host Chris Titley chats with Sydney Swans forward Hayden McLean about the highs and lows of footy, bouncing back from grand final heartbreak, and what it really takes to stay at the top.
Hayden reflects on missing out on the AFL draft, grinding his way into the league, and the mindset shift that helped him cement his spot. He talks about the adrenaline of playing in packed stadiums, learning from the game’s best, and how he balances footy with his growing obsession with golf.
From pre-game nerves to post-game 4 AM sleep struggles, Hayden keeps it real about the pressure, the passion, and why he’s still chasing that ultimate premiership moment.
🔥 A must-listen for footy fans, athletes, and anyone who loves a comeback story.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hi, it's Chris Titley here todayon the Scoreboard podcast.
It's the Tuesday the 18th of February.
We're joined by Sydney's fun player, Hayden McLean.
Hayden, thank you so much for being part of the series.
No worries, thank you very much for having me.
Hayden, we're sitting here in mid Feb of 2025.
How's your 2025 started? Yeah, no, it's been interesting
year so far for me. I've come off injury sort of
(00:24):
last year with Groynes and went to Doha back end of last year,
but the last January's been goodfor me, progressing well and I
mean back with the boys trainingwhich is always a positive and
it feels like I'm back in with the team which is good.
Excellent mate and and let's go on to to 2024.
A very good and strong year fromyou and also the team, but also
(00:45):
getting to the the last dance. Not quite there.
Do you want to describe 2024 in a nutshell for you?
Yeah, I had a bit of everything I think last year, start of the
year, we'll play probably the best footy as a team I think
we've ever played. It was exciting, it was fun,
crowds were packed and it was electrifying.
And then we had that little, I guess fatigue patch or whatever
(01:09):
you want to call it throughout the middle of the year where you
know, we're losing and not doingwhat we'll probably performing
at the start of the year. But then as a team and Hall sort
of brought us back in and refreshed us and we had a really
strong back end of the season and obviously to the finals
campaign. But the last day just, yeah, we
(01:29):
felt felt pretty short. Paul Ruiz described playing in
an AFL grand final and losing inan AFL grand final is the best
and worst day of his life. Is it pretty spot on?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the whole anticipation
of the week before the, you know, the parades and and how
you know how rare it is to get to that day.
(01:49):
It's such a great feeling. But then also you had to to lose
a grand final. You almost feel like you didn't
want to be there at the time. You've not actually played, but
you know there's 19 teams there that want to be there and
playing on that day. Yeah, and you've been there
twice and and obviously hoping to get there many more times
ahead. How do you go about approach
approaching the season? You've been in the AFL now for a
(02:10):
very long time and you know thatthe the season is a long season.
How do you how do you personallyapproach and and also as a team?
Yeah. I think we were in the 2022
grand final after that loss, we probably all went our own ways
and and dealt with it individually and just sort of
figured it out in our own way asit was the first thing that sort
(02:33):
of happened to us like that. But I think this year, sorry,
end of last year, we've really reviewed it hard as a team,
really opened up about how we'reall feeling, the coaches were
feeling, what we were all thinking individually on the
day. And I think that's just really
galvanised us together and it always feels like we're on this
next journey this year together.And, you know, we don't want to
(02:56):
do that again, obviously. And I feel like we've really
matured as a group and and took it a step forward from reviewing
it together and having that harsh reality really.
Do you talk about premierships at the start of the year and pre
season etcetera or is it, is it process week by week and and
let's get to September or let's get to the top of the table as
he did last year early on with some good form?
(03:17):
Yeah, I think it's it's at the start, it's probably especially
Dean Cox coming over. It's adapting to his new ways
and what he's flair he wants on our on our team.
But I think every team would be kidding themselves and they
don't put that target at the endof the year, that premiership.
That's why I guess we're all here and we're all playing.
But you do want to look week to week.
(03:37):
But I think how sort of much last year hurt we we want to get
back there and prove everyone wrong.
And Hayden, from a point of viewof yourself as a player, you get
you get picked and you play for the Swans.
And some weeks you might not getpicked, you might get dropped.
What do you think it is that that that that you have as a bit
(03:58):
of a superpower, I suppose to make sure you get picked every
week and not just get picked every week, but perform at your
at your best and continue to improve.
Yeah, I think that probably tookearly on.
I was in and out for a bit theretrying to figure out where I
sort of fit with. Obviously buddy was in the
forward line, there's limited opportunities and all that, but
I think it's just trying to add different strings to your bow.
(04:20):
And for me, that's playing in the ruck, chopping out, you
know, Grundy this year and try and help in different ways and
not just be that sort of one position player and and push
that case every week. And.
What do you do from a learning point of view of the game every
every week or every year I suppose to get better and better
as a as a player and also as a as a leader in the team?
(04:42):
Yeah, I think every week we've got a line coach, so we'll sit
through our vision, our players and adapt and learn from what we
did, either good or bad on the weekend.
And obviously working with Coxy as a rock coach a lot of the
time was was really fast tracking me in the in the rock
part and then just working with the other forwards.
(05:03):
Each week we try help each otherout.
We're all a bit young down thereat the moment.
We're not so young but inexperienced, so we're all
helping each other learn and I think that's what's the fun of
it at the moment. As you're growing up playing
footy, were you always a Ford ordo you sort of be a bit more
mobile around the ruck and or even a defender?
(05:24):
Yeah, I was pretty much rock actually as a kid.
I grew very early. I was I was a big kid and just
got put in the ruck and run around the ground and just stand
there. But then I think when I was must
have been 4 ends. I think Dermot Brown was a coach
at local and he sort of just said OK, it's time for you to
(05:45):
learn a different position, not just to be a ruck because
obviously I wasn't growing as much and I'm not over 200
centimetres to be a ruck. So it was to learn that forward
craft and I think that's what's made me versatile and help the
team a lot. Do you think AFL is moving
towards a bit more flexibility around the positions, broadly
speaking? Yeah, I think it is.
(06:08):
And I think how fast the game isnow, players are playing
different positions with best rotations.
So you got another rest forward or or rest half back.
But I think the teams that can use many positions with
different players is an asset. And then from the the tech and
the data point of view from whenyou first played in the AFL to
(06:31):
now playing in your 6th or 7th season coming up, is it has that
changed a lot in terms of the analytics and and what's
happening? Yeah, definitely.
I'm at the start of just the GPSS each weekend we had, we've
had I guess running and then howwe're going to have a training
throughout that week. But last year we adapted heart
(06:51):
rate monitors, especially as soon as we get in the club, we
put it on, they monitor our heart rate through the meetings
to see how recovered we are and you know, tailor our trainings
towards that. So it's really good at the data
now and also how we feel. But it's a lot more managing and
and making us the best on the weekend.
Do you get some of that data sometimes and go, oh, actually.
(07:14):
Oh, really? Wow.
Yeah, yeah. I think sometimes you can feel
like you're a bit cooked or a bit fatigued and you are fine.
It can be that sort of grind throughout the season.
But to have those numbers, to know that you are fresh, can
sort of turn your head a little bit and make you feel a little
bit better. Hey now, when I touch on your
childhood and sport and activity, when was the first
(07:37):
pickup of the AFL ball and what did you think initially as a
child? Yeah, I would have.
I grew up in Melbourne, so the heart of footy, so my dad and
grandpa and uncle all played at the top level.
So from when I remembered I had a footy in my hand and with an
older brother I was always in his games, kicking the footy
(07:57):
around or having fun to back outwith him.
So from as long as I can remember I've always had a footy
in my hand are. You pretty competitive with your
older brother, yeah. Vivid memories of when we're
kids, we'll go to the park and dad would basically just kick it
up and we'll just have one on ones for an hour or so and that
always get very competitive and end up in a fight or an argument
(08:21):
or something. So it was always, it was always
competitive and he's actually funny enough and back now.
So it sort of worked out for us.And and Hayden was the dream
always to play professional AFL.What was the dream the young
Hayden? Yeah, no, it was always the play
I felt. I think I sort of knew I had a
(08:42):
bit of talent early on. I think it was probably under 12
school boys is when I realised Iprobably had the potential
making that team and I made thatsort of a commitment to myself
that I wanted to get here and then obviously went a different
path of missing a couple of draughts but I always had that
(09:03):
self belief that I would get here.
Yeah, I want to touch on that assort of a a different play to
way to play AFL and I've heard you in different interviews say
that it sort of makes you feel abit more belonging I suppose in
the AFL. Do you want to talk about that
process of getting to the AFL and and that first game?
Yeah, it was tough journey, I think missing that first
draught. There's such a big emphasis on
(09:25):
getting drafted when you're 18 and there's a build up media and
all that. This is your gear.
And then I guess when that didn't happen that night, it was
so it felt like something got pulled out of me instead of
staying for a couple of days. And I had that mate, that little
thought of oh, well, that's it. But then that and me had a chat.
(09:48):
I think it's about a lunch we had.
And it's just like, oh, we can either give up this and, you
know, just play fully local or whatever, or we could go out a
way and try and get you there a different way.
I want to touch on the support crew that you've had through
that period and also also now and how important is that?
I, I do follow your, your Instagram and there's a lot of
(10:09):
mates all the time on your Instagram.
Do you want to talk about your support crew and how important
they are to you? Yeah, no, they're massive,
especially in that time I was actually schoolies on when the
rookie draught happened. So I missed the first draught
and thought I'll go to schoolieswith my mates to be close with
them and, and that helped and then missed out on that rookie
(10:31):
draught. And basically they just put
their arms around me for the week, which was probably the
best place I could have been to be my best mates away and and
just forget about it for, you know, that week afterwards.
Do you look back on it now and and and feel it still?
I think you still do. Yeah.
(10:52):
I think I was thinking back to it.
You still feel that raw emotion of of how I felt when you didn't
get your name called and everyone was passing in their
last picks and there's no hope left, really.
Yeah, I don't remember too much of my schoolies, to be honest,
but I'd imagine that you would have had a maybe a little bit of
drown your sorrows for a little bit.
(11:12):
Yeah, there's probably a night or two there, but I think that
was probably the best way just to forget about it, be my best,
best mates and, you know, finishing school and try to
celebrate something else. Yeah, and Hayden, then when you
get you got selected and and then sort of putting that
uniform on for the first time playing in your first game.
Do you want to describe that feeling and and I suppose how
vivid that memory is? Yeah.
(11:34):
But actually sort of feels like yesterday they just got up here.
I remember I came in, I think I had a little knee injury at the
start of the year. So I didn't think that first
year I thought would just be a bit of a rehab development year.
And then I came back, played twogames in the needful or the VFR
now. And I think Callum Sinclair and
(11:58):
Sam Naismith had both been down with the injury and sort of
looking around at who could rock.
And I wouldn't thinking me as a as a young player and don't
think I was quite ready at the time.
But then when Horse said that I was debuting, it's almost like
what I'd been through was worth it.
Just had a sense of pride and I just wanted to tell my family
(12:20):
straight away. And then getting out in the
field, the intensity levels and,and being, you know, an AFL
player for one game, what were you feeling?
Yeah, massive little adrenaline,really.
I remember my first game was Fremantle and that was when
Aaron Sander, Lance was playing and and Darcy.
So I had two pretty big rocks tocome against.
(12:43):
But I remember just, yeah, Josh Kennedy game by Jersey and, and
from there it's almost a bit of a blur and it's sort of like
some fast motion. It was just so exciting.
It was so fun. It was just everything that I
did think it was going to be. And life as an AFL player now
I'm playing, you know, 70 odd games.
Has that feeling stayed around the the AFL system?
(13:04):
Being a professional athlete, isit everything that you dreamed
of or is it, you know, I supposethere's, there's up days and
down days. Yeah, definitely.
I love it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't switch
this for anything. I think that's why I did
everything I could to get here. But yeah, everything has its ups
and downs. You know, if your team's going
well, it's fine and it's exciting.
(13:25):
And then when it's not going so well in the media's at the team
or individually, it can be a bitof a grind at times.
But I think with what's so good about our club is most of us
aren't actually from Sydney, so it's a bit of a family
connection and we all look aftereach other in house really well.
(13:46):
And just touching on that with, with the press and the media,
there's a lot more eyes on you now that you are an AFL player,
an established AFL player for a,for a club that's got a long
history and sells out. It's it's game.
Obviously you need to keep yourself super fit, but also
probably keep yourself mentally fit as well.
What do you do from that point of view to make sure you get
your head right? Yeah, that was probably took me
(14:09):
3 or 4 years to get the balance of being a professional footy
player but also having a life. So I started uni and it was just
pre COVID just to do something outside which was construction
management and property. And then I'll change this year
hopefully into commerce by the end of the year.
But last two years a lot of us boys picked up golf.
(14:33):
I think pre COVID everyone, you know, everyone sort of picked up
the golf clubs. But I think just having that
release on the day off for four or five hours and not talk
footy, just go play a different sport, compete in a different
way is a really good thing that we've gotten and a really good
balance that we have. Yeah, the the 24/7 thinking
about footy, is it hard to switch?
(14:54):
Off, yeah, I think in season it can be, you know, if you play a
game, say the Friday night in Melbourne, then you go see your
family for dinner or something, you're still thinking about the
game or what you could have donebetter or what you did do well.
It's just trying to get that balance of when you're at the
club you switch on and you you're immersed in it, but when
(15:15):
you're outside the club it's almost try to leave your work
there and not think about it toomuch.
But they can drift in a lot of the time.
Yeah, I was going to say if you go and have a, you know, chicken
parmesan at the local pub just to switch off, there'll be
someone that will probably recognise you and therefore the
footy is back on again. How do you deal with that?
Yeah, look, I think being in Sydney's probably a bit of a
(15:36):
blessing with that. Don't get recognised too much,
although the last probably 2-3 years it's really increased and
I think footy in NSW is really growing, which is great to
experience because I remember I first got here at school clinics
and going to local clubs. I had no idea of who we were or
whatever footy was really throwing the ball like an NRL or
(15:58):
kicking it like a soccer ball. So I've been trying to switch
on. Off here is a bit easier than
say than Melbourne or Adelaide or Perth, but the people are
friendly up here and IT and at the end of the 80s a privilege
to be in this position and I remember as a kid when I saw an
FL player I used to love it. Just on touching on on the golf
(16:19):
mate, are you any good? I'm not too bad.
We always compare our our handicaps, but I think I went
down to about a 12 so. Yeah, right.
Can roughly hit it, yeah. And how does that compare with
some of your teammates? No, there's a lot of boys.
There's a few single digits. I think Matt Roberts might be
off about 3. Errol's really good, He's about
(16:42):
four, I think 4 1/2. So there's a lot of competition
with the club. And your favourite course to
play on? I like playing.
Dad's a member of Woodlands in Melbourne, which is a really
nice course playing there, but all of us boys are at the coast
in Malabar up in Sydney, which is a great course along the
(17:02):
coastline. And have you you settled into
Sydney? Well, yeah.
Definitely, I think first few years you sort of get your your
bearings and learn the place. But like Sydney is such a
beautiful place. As I said before, it's it's not
fully central and the beaches and the weather, it's it's a
really nice place to to live andget away from it all.
(17:24):
And you've got, I think you've kicked 35 goals at the SCG or in
and around that about do you, doyou have a favourite goal or a
favourite moment? And and every time you kick a
goal at A at a packed out crowd,I suppose the the dopamines must
be high and the adrenaline must be high.
Yeah, you can definitely get carried away a little bit at the
SCG. I think the fans are so, so
massive and exciting there. I think with the team with
(17:48):
perhaps and all that celebrate big, they expected every time.
So I think one against Melbourne, I think it was a bit
early season last year, I was onthe pocket and kicked one there
and the crowd was going go wild and got sucked in a little bit.
But it's a good experience. And and life after footy, we
don't want to think about it toomuch right now, but you did
(18:08):
mention about a degree there. What sparked your commerce?
What are you interested outside of, of footy when it comes to to
studying and or you know, potentially in 15 years time?
Yeah. So going into commerce, it needs
to do a sort of businesses and we'll just hopefully do some
work experience this year with acompany that sort of gets
(18:30):
startup businesses and, you know, invest capital for them
and, and grows their business from a small to a large.
So I've got a bit of an interestin that at the moment and, and
growing businesses and you know,starting with a little startup
and and growing a little product.
Yeah, in in the sense that you'll be involved in that
startup or just investing in it?I definitely would like to be
(18:53):
hands on with it. I think to be like fully, you'd
like to start somewhere and see where you can take a project or
a company and say grow as your own.
Yeah, I'm going to ask a few personality traits on the back
of that one. Is that are you a curious mind?
Is it, do you sort of wander around around businesses and
like actually how do they make money?
(19:14):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's probably post COVID
podcast became a big thing for me.
You know, Diary, the CEO, I lovelistening to him and just seeing
how different businesses have grown and, and what each person
sort of investment routes are and both personally and as a
business. And that's just something that
(19:37):
sort of drawn me in and, and what can I do now to to be
helping myself in, you know, 30-4 years?
Yeah, you sound like a a prosperous type of guy.
You, you obviously want people to succeed etcetera.
Are you? Are you overly a confident man?
I'd say in stuff that I believe in, and I'm good at that,
definitely, yeah. I think especially with footy,
(20:00):
you have to be, you sort of haveto have that confidence in
yourself, especially in industry.
That can change very quickly. One of the words which I've used
or athletes have used in previous podcasts is they have
to be a little bit selfish when it comes to sport sometimes.
How do you sit with that word? Yeah, I think it's definitely,
(20:23):
it can't be too selfish. It's more you can't get sucked
in and listen to too many peopleoutside of your network.
You know, a lot of people come to you with other ideas or
opinions or ways that you shouldbe doing or playing.
And sometimes you just need to, you know, be selfish and listen
to yourself or that one or two persons that you have in your
(20:45):
corner because you can get wrapped up in it pretty quick.
Do you, I mean people say you you back yourself, Do you back
yourself as they've been hard todo sometimes?
I think this definitely fluctuates, but I've always had
a real sense of backing myself and I think probably doing it,
you know, getting drafted different ways, really showing
(21:07):
that I had to back myself then and that I do still now because
I know that feeling of not beinghere or missing out.
I really don't want that again. So I know I've got to back
myself individually that that I can do it.
And you sound like you're resilient.
You've got a lot of resilience in you.
How do you use that resilience, I suppose, to prosper as a
(21:29):
player now? Yeah, I think the resilience has
probably shown me that you can'tbe complacent.
Probably when I was underage 17,I was going well and doing
really well and I didn't really change much going into my 18th
year, which that itself was probably a lesson that you've
just got to keep evolving and adapting.
(21:50):
The game's growing so quickly and you know the new rules and
the changes is something you have to either adapt to or you
get left behind. And you've been competitive all
your life. Are you ultra competitive?
Do you get really competitive onthe golf course and maybe in the
game of Scrabble as well? Yeah, yeah.
Anything I do, I get really competitive, whether it's car
(22:11):
games with housemates or my partner or is that golf course
or it's just simply, you know, competing with myself and trying
to save or invest as much as I can.
And then from a winning point ofview, in terms of playing games,
you reckon you've been on the right side of the Ledger all
your life in terms of win, loss or about even?
Oh no, I reckon being pretty lucky, I think I'd be positive.
(22:35):
I reckon we had a little down patch probably for two years,
but every other year we've been in the final.
So I reckon, yeah, be a positive.
Yeah, been a positive and as a kid you always wanted to to win
in any game. Did you ever compete in
individual sports as well? Yeah, I did tennis by myself,
(22:57):
but other than that I was prettymuch team sports.
And I think about it, I was basketball and did a bit of
volleyball as well at school. I was going to say just.
Last, the basketball and volleyball would have helped a
little bit, yeah. Definitely, I played that pretty
competitive till I was probably about 16.
I had a knee injury and had to sort of give up the hard court
so stuck to footy. But I just love, you know,
(23:20):
playing with other players and working together on an objective
and getting to that end goal. Yeah, I want to touch on that,
the individual performance of yourself on the AFL field, plus
there's also the roles that you play within the team.
Is there some sort of like, I mean, is it hard to kind of
balance sometimes? I definitely, I think it's as a
forward, it can be hard if you're not getting a kick or
(23:42):
it's not coming down you it's you should have had that battle
with do I just try to do something myself or change
something? Or it's whether you stick to
what the team needs and majorityof the time that actually is the
right option. And when you go, you know, in
your own silo and don't do it asa team, you actually go
backwards and you can't battle that at times.
(24:05):
But I think that's why we've been such a successful team,
just purely because we all have a default of falling to the
team. Yeah.
Are you a patient person? Not too patient, no.
I think in most things I do, I want to sort of get it done
quick and and see a bit of rewards early.
(24:26):
But I think football definitely teaches you patience and each
year I probably do get a bit better with it, but I'm still
very instant and want to get stuff done.
Do. You get nervous.
Sometimes, yeah, but I think each year it's become more of a
excitement and sort of that eagerness just to go out and
(24:50):
play. Now there's obviously some games
that you get nervous or in situations you do, but I think
compared to my first couple years to now, it's definitely
not as much nervous. It's more just excitement and
happy to be out there. And the game is is a long game.
Does your brain stay with the game the whole time?
Does every now and then it sort of drift off a little bit?
(25:12):
Or is it, Is it, is it hard to make sure you keep continuing in
the flow, particularly if the ball's at the other end of the
the field? Yeah, I think we've done a bit
of work last year with Emma Murray and it's sort of having
that you can only focus on one thing at a time.
So, you know, when the goal's being kicked or you've got taken
off or you're walking back to the goal square, that's when you
(25:33):
can actually just turn your brain off and just walk back to
the square, reset. And then once that ball bounced
back up, that's when you sort ofsnap back in and focus because,
yeah, for three hours you can't be focusing 100% or else you
just, yeah, fatigue or, or slip mine.
What? Do you think about?
(25:53):
For me, it's just walking back to the goal square.
I sort of just look down and andtry to turn my mind off what's
happened and look in the crowd and just actually take in what's
going on around. Yeah, I think you make the golf
handicap. No unless I played bad that week
maybe, but. Your shopping list like I forgot
something at woollies. I need to order that.
(26:14):
Sometimes things do pop in, I mean like whether it's uni or
something pops in. You can think some random things
in a game, but that's when you sort of lay yourself to switch
off. And while I'm resetting for that
1015 seconds, just try to think about something else and then
get back to it. Hey mate, your lover of of
restaurants and food. You've got a favourite dining
(26:35):
spot in Sydney and Melbourne. In Sydney there's actually, I'm
in Coogee and there's a little Italian spot around the corner
called Louis, which is a nice little Italian spot, not too
busy as well, which is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of restaurants up here and then Melbourne, nothing
(27:01):
really jumps in. Oh, there's actually, I think
it's in Brighton, potentially 10Greeks Plate.
It's a very nice Greek restaurant there, which has
always been a birthday special. And then if you had a
destination that you had to go to or to holiday, it sounds like
it potentially could be Italy orGreece, but what what would be
your favourite country that you'd want to travel to or go
(27:22):
back to? Go back to, I love Barcelona and
London, did that a couple of years ago with the boys and that
was a great trip. First time in Europe.
So seeing the whole culture difference was great.
But I think at the end of the year I'd love to go to Japan,
you know, see Tokyo, but then also do the skiing and and the
(27:44):
snow over there, whether that's the end of this year or post
footy with the snowing, with thesnowboarding.
But Japan would be beautiful. Yeah, I was quite jealous of all
the Instagram posts over December or so with all.
Different places. Family in Japan, certainly a bit
of a thriving, thriving hotspot.Mate of mine's actually looking
(28:05):
at potentially starting a 2020 cricket tournament over there,
which might be a business expense for me to go over and
mate. Do you, do you end up, do you
watch sport? Do you watch the AFL at all?
Or you just sort of switch off now you're a player.
No, I'll watch it pretty heavilyprobably for first half of the
season. It's good to have that
Indigenous game in Fremantle play the other night just to
(28:26):
have 40 on again was was exciting and they love watching
other teams and sort of seeing where they're at especially
we're going to verse them soon. So I do love watching, yeah the
AFL, but towards the back end itcan be a bit of a 24/7 thing.
So you I don't watch it too muchjust to switch off.
And, and some advice for for kids out there that are playing
(28:48):
sport at the moment. Some obviously want to be like
yourself and play professional AFL and some might not have that
dream but end up becoming reallygood.
But others just want to play forfun.
And there's a lot of parental advice out there as well when it
comes to, to sport. What what's some advice from a
from your point of view? Now being a professional athlete
playing in the AFL, which is a dream for many kids, to to give
(29:10):
that some advice to some of these kids.
Yeah, I think probably every year it becomes more of a
serious actually industry. You could probably even 17 year
olds are in the media these daystalking about what they're going
to pick in sort of what top ten pick in two years they're going
to be. So there's a lot of pressure and
(29:31):
highlight and spotlight on them.But I think just what I really
used to do is just actually enjoy playing, enjoy the
process. Obviously you have to be serious
when you're playing and training, but it's enjoying it,
you know, whether it's playing basketball or tennis or just
having different outlets as a kid, especially while you can
(29:53):
and you've got the time, it's just to enjoy anything you
really do enjoy and have interest in I'm.
Going to touch on that, serious versus fun.
Have you always played footy andenjoyed footy and now you're
obviously playing it for a living, which is serious and
there's money involved? Can you just sort of describe
your sort of relationship between fun and serious?
(30:14):
Yeah, and that's I think that's where you learn each year, that
balance of of having fun and being serious.
But it's actually funny when youwhen you do just have fun and
playing out with your mates. And that's what we did, started
last year really well. We just went out and had fun and
the fully reflected that it was exciting, it was rewarding.
(30:36):
And if we had a mistake, it, it wasn't at the end of the world
where sometimes you can go that serious side and, and really try
hard. And if you make a mistake, you
can dwell on it or think about it for, you know, a quarter or
two and it can actually affect your your performance.
So I think it's almost being serious, but taking it light
(30:57):
hearted. That's not the end of the world
if you miss a kick or drop a mark because you've got the next
context to redeem that. Yeah, and just touching on the
game of footy, the game of AFL for you, what makes it so fun
and enjoyable and I suppose addictive for you as well?
Yeah, I think it's the the competing every week.
(31:18):
I think going out with 2223, basically your mates every week
in that race. I think there's no other feeling
that that replicates it, that adrenaline, the excitement, but
then also the physicality and competitiveness of the game
itself. And you know, no matter how good
(31:40):
you are, there's always scope toimprove.
And you sort of get addicted to that, wanting to improve, be
better. But that's individually or as a
team, something that just excites you and keeps drawing
your back. And then when you're on a bit of
a roll and you're winning consistently week on week, which
you guys were doing last year, how does that I suppose affect
(32:02):
your learnings as well as I suppose your, your ability to
keep going and keep winning? And then obviously when you
lose, you're like, well, that would sort of do.
Yeah, I think the good thing that you know, horse with us as
a as a young team and we're on those roles is he's very good at
still picking out things that we're not doing so well.
(32:25):
You know, it's easy to, if you win 456 on a row to sort of just
mask up or, you know, forget those little cracks.
But the one thing he's been verygood at is really keeping us in
that place. And it was giving us honest and
positive feedback. And that's probably why we did
get on those big streaks. As much as we're winning, we're
(32:46):
still fixing a lot of things along the way.
And then we did, I guess, lose acouple.
The waggon wheels didn't completely fall off and we got
back to our best pretty quick do.
You have a favourite time to play.
Friday night games are all Saturday nights are pretty
special. I think the start of the week,
(33:08):
that Friday night you sort of know first game of the weekend
set the time for the week as a team and and most spectators are
watching. She sort of just had that
feeling of want to want to go out and compete and and win for
the weekend. And when you travel, being so
tall, how do how do you go? Yeah, not too.
We're pretty lucky we get the, you know, the exit seats has
(33:31):
been on the taller 1 so we get that.
But travelling is a group. It is a fun time and and we love
travelling away games just for the enjoyment.
Your favourite ground outside the SCG?
Optus Stadium is pretty good, a lot of the big ground and and
(33:52):
that's where I debuted. So it's got a bit of
significance to me, but it's pretty hard to go past the MCG.
A nice day game there on the Saturday Alvo or Sunday Alvo is
a magical place with the the suncoming, setting down and and
playing on such a historic ground.
And how do you go with your sleep mate?
You got a good sleeper. Pretty good post games, don't
(34:14):
really sleep too much. Sort of all those people that
you're so upbeat and so much adrenaline in the game and then
post game you know you probably have it for a few hours and
probably get to sleep till 4:00 or 5:00 AM that night.
So whether you do a good game ora bad game, you're thinking
(34:34):
about the game. I've got the a new segment which
I've introduced the last couple episodes called the Scoreboard
Moment and it's the one moment that's defined your career or
the one moment that you rememberin your career, which basically
has shaped the path and direction.
I'm interested to know what the scoreboard moment for Hayden
McLean is. There's probably one that sticks
(34:54):
out. Actually, I touched on it before
the under 12 school boys. I remember I was actually
rocking against a fellow player,Ethan Casey, and he was ahead
above everyone. And I was getting dominated in
one of the trial games, the first one in the morning and you
had another game in the afternoon.
And my dad in the car park basically just sat me down and
(35:17):
said, you know, recruiters and and people aren't watching.
If you're going to beat him, your expectation is not to to
beat him, but not to give up andjust have a crack really show
that competitive and fight that that I do have.
And I was probably giving up a bit in that first game and
probably thought I was meant to win.
(35:39):
So I didn't really showcase much.
And then that second game after talking to Daddy's like, you
know, you can either lose again and not impact or just go out
and try physically either, you know, jump into him or bash him
or run around the game, run around the ground and beat him
in other areas. And that's probably stuck with
(35:59):
me even till now when I'm comingup against, you know, Sean Darcy
or players that are bigger than me.
Let's try to find different avenues that I can beat them in.
And Hayden, you've a dream come true to play one AFL game.
You're in the mid 70s. What's what defines success for
Hayden McLean now moving forward?
(36:22):
Yeah. It's funny how it sort of
changes over the years. You want to get that first game
and then you get that and then it's your first win and then
finals. And I think for me now it's,
it's continuing to develop cement that sort of forward
position in that forward line. But then having sort of two
(36:43):
grand finals that haven't gone our way.
I think ultimate success at the moment would be, you know, to
get the other side of that and and win a grand final.
Hayden, thank you so much for being part of the The School
Board podcast series. Congratulations on your
achievements thus far as a Sydney Swan player and and the
number of games that you've played in the two grand finals
(37:04):
that you've played as well and all the best in the 2025 season
coming up. Thank you, Chris.
Appreciate that.
Hi, it's Chris Titley here todayon the Scoreboard podcast.
It's the Tuesday the 18th of February.
We're joined by Sydney's fun player, Hayden McLean.
Hayden, thank you so much for being part of the series.
No worries, thank you very much for having me.
Hayden, we're sitting here in mid Feb of 2025.
How's your 2025 started? Yeah, no, it's been interesting
year so far for me. I've come off injury sort of
(00:24):
last year with Groynes and went to Doha back end of last year,
but the last January's been goodfor me, progressing well and I
mean back with the boys trainingwhich is always a positive and
it feels like I'm back in with the team which is good.
Excellent mate and and let's go on to to 2024.
A very good and strong year fromyou and also the team, but also
(00:45):
getting to the the last dance. Not quite there.
Do you want to describe 2024 in a nutshell for you?
Yeah, I had a bit of everything I think last year, start of the
year, we'll play probably the best footy as a team I think
we've ever played. It was exciting, it was fun,
crowds were packed and it was electrifying.
And then we had that little, I guess fatigue patch or whatever
(01:09):
you want to call it throughout the middle of the year where you
know, we're losing and not doingwhat we'll probably performing
at the start of the year. But then as a team and Hall sort
of brought us back in and refreshed us and we had a really
strong back end of the season and obviously to the finals
campaign. But the last day just, yeah, we
(01:29):
felt felt pretty short. Paul Ruiz described playing in
an AFL grand final and losing inan AFL grand final is the best
and worst day of his life. Is it pretty spot on?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the whole anticipation
of the week before the, you know, the parades and and how
you know how rare it is to get to that day.
(01:49):
It's such a great feeling. But then also you had to to lose
a grand final. You almost feel like you didn't
want to be there at the time. You've not actually played, but
you know there's 19 teams there that want to be there and
playing on that day. Yeah, and you've been there
twice and and obviously hoping to get there many more times
ahead. How do you go about approach
approaching the season? You've been in the AFL now for a
(02:10):
very long time and you know thatthe the season is a long season.
How do you how do you personallyapproach and and also as a team?
Yeah. I think we were in the 2022
grand final after that loss, we probably all went our own ways
and and dealt with it individually and just sort of
figured it out in our own way asit was the first thing that sort
(02:33):
of happened to us like that. But I think this year, sorry,
end of last year, we've really reviewed it hard as a team,
really opened up about how we'reall feeling, the coaches were
feeling, what we were all thinking individually on the
day. And I think that's just really
galvanised us together and it always feels like we're on this
next journey this year together.And, you know, we don't want to
(02:56):
do that again, obviously. And I feel like we've really
matured as a group and and took it a step forward from reviewing
it together and having that harsh reality really.
Do you talk about premierships at the start of the year and pre
season etcetera or is it, is it process week by week and and
let's get to September or let's get to the top of the table as
he did last year early on with some good form?
(03:17):
Yeah, I think it's it's at the start, it's probably especially
Dean Cox coming over. It's adapting to his new ways
and what he's flair he wants on our on our team.
But I think every team would be kidding themselves and they
don't put that target at the endof the year, that premiership.
That's why I guess we're all here and we're all playing.
But you do want to look week to week.
(03:37):
But I think how sort of much last year hurt we we want to get
back there and prove everyone wrong.
And Hayden, from a point of viewof yourself as a player, you get
you get picked and you play for the Swans.
And some weeks you might not getpicked, you might get dropped.
What do you think it is that that that that you have as a bit
(03:58):
of a superpower, I suppose to make sure you get picked every
week and not just get picked every week, but perform at your
at your best and continue to improve.
Yeah, I think that probably tookearly on.
I was in and out for a bit theretrying to figure out where I
sort of fit with. Obviously buddy was in the
forward line, there's limited opportunities and all that, but
I think it's just trying to add different strings to your bow.
(04:20):
And for me, that's playing in the ruck, chopping out, you
know, Grundy this year and try and help in different ways and
not just be that sort of one position player and and push
that case every week. And.
What do you do from a learning point of view of the game every
every week or every year I suppose to get better and better
as a as a player and also as a as a leader in the team?
(04:42):
Yeah, I think every week we've got a line coach, so we'll sit
through our vision, our players and adapt and learn from what we
did, either good or bad on the weekend.
And obviously working with Coxy as a rock coach a lot of the
time was was really fast tracking me in the in the rock
part and then just working with the other forwards.
(05:03):
Each week we try help each otherout.
We're all a bit young down thereat the moment.
We're not so young but inexperienced, so we're all
helping each other learn and I think that's what's the fun of
it at the moment. As you're growing up playing
footy, were you always a Ford ordo you sort of be a bit more
mobile around the ruck and or even a defender?
(05:24):
Yeah, I was pretty much rock actually as a kid.
I grew very early. I was I was a big kid and just
got put in the ruck and run around the ground and just stand
there. But then I think when I was must
have been 4 ends. I think Dermot Brown was a coach
at local and he sort of just said OK, it's time for you to
(05:45):
learn a different position, not just to be a ruck because
obviously I wasn't growing as much and I'm not over 200
centimetres to be a ruck. So it was to learn that forward
craft and I think that's what's made me versatile and help the
team a lot. Do you think AFL is moving
towards a bit more flexibility around the positions, broadly
speaking? Yeah, I think it is.
(06:08):
And I think how fast the game isnow, players are playing
different positions with best rotations.
So you got another rest forward or or rest half back.
But I think the teams that can use many positions with
different players is an asset. And then from the the tech and
the data point of view from whenyou first played in the AFL to
(06:31):
now playing in your 6th or 7th season coming up, is it has that
changed a lot in terms of the analytics and and what's
happening? Yeah, definitely.
I'm at the start of just the GPSS each weekend we had, we've
had I guess running and then howwe're going to have a training
throughout that week. But last year we adapted heart
(06:51):
rate monitors, especially as soon as we get in the club, we
put it on, they monitor our heart rate through the meetings
to see how recovered we are and you know, tailor our trainings
towards that. So it's really good at the data
now and also how we feel. But it's a lot more managing and
and making us the best on the weekend.
Do you get some of that data sometimes and go, oh, actually.
(07:14):
Oh, really? Wow.
Yeah, yeah. I think sometimes you can feel
like you're a bit cooked or a bit fatigued and you are fine.
It can be that sort of grind throughout the season.
But to have those numbers, to know that you are fresh, can
sort of turn your head a little bit and make you feel a little
bit better. Hey now, when I touch on your
childhood and sport and activity, when was the first
(07:37):
pickup of the AFL ball and what did you think initially as a
child? Yeah, I would have.
I grew up in Melbourne, so the heart of footy, so my dad and
grandpa and uncle all played at the top level.
So from when I remembered I had a footy in my hand and with an
older brother I was always in his games, kicking the footy
(07:57):
around or having fun to back outwith him.
So from as long as I can remember I've always had a footy
in my hand are. You pretty competitive with your
older brother, yeah. Vivid memories of when we're
kids, we'll go to the park and dad would basically just kick it
up and we'll just have one on ones for an hour or so and that
always get very competitive and end up in a fight or an argument
(08:21):
or something. So it was always, it was always
competitive and he's actually funny enough and back now.
So it sort of worked out for us.And and Hayden was the dream
always to play professional AFL.What was the dream the young
Hayden? Yeah, no, it was always the play
I felt. I think I sort of knew I had a
(08:42):
bit of talent early on. I think it was probably under 12
school boys is when I realised Iprobably had the potential
making that team and I made thatsort of a commitment to myself
that I wanted to get here and then obviously went a different
path of missing a couple of draughts but I always had that
(09:03):
self belief that I would get here.
Yeah, I want to touch on that assort of a a different play to
way to play AFL and I've heard you in different interviews say
that it sort of makes you feel abit more belonging I suppose in
the AFL. Do you want to talk about that
process of getting to the AFL and and that first game?
Yeah, it was tough journey, I think missing that first
draught. There's such a big emphasis on
(09:25):
getting drafted when you're 18 and there's a build up media and
all that. This is your gear.
And then I guess when that didn't happen that night, it was
so it felt like something got pulled out of me instead of
staying for a couple of days. And I had that mate, that little
thought of oh, well, that's it. But then that and me had a chat.
(09:48):
I think it's about a lunch we had.
And it's just like, oh, we can either give up this and, you
know, just play fully local or whatever, or we could go out a
way and try and get you there a different way.
I want to touch on the support crew that you've had through
that period and also also now and how important is that?
I, I do follow your, your Instagram and there's a lot of
(10:09):
mates all the time on your Instagram.
Do you want to talk about your support crew and how important
they are to you? Yeah, no, they're massive,
especially in that time I was actually schoolies on when the
rookie draught happened. So I missed the first draught
and thought I'll go to schoolieswith my mates to be close with
them and, and that helped and then missed out on that rookie
(10:31):
draught. And basically they just put
their arms around me for the week, which was probably the
best place I could have been to be my best mates away and and
just forget about it for, you know, that week afterwards.
Do you look back on it now and and and feel it still?
I think you still do. Yeah.
(10:52):
I think I was thinking back to it.
You still feel that raw emotion of of how I felt when you didn't
get your name called and everyone was passing in their
last picks and there's no hope left, really.
Yeah, I don't remember too much of my schoolies, to be honest,
but I'd imagine that you would have had a maybe a little bit of
drown your sorrows for a little bit.
(11:12):
Yeah, there's probably a night or two there, but I think that
was probably the best way just to forget about it, be my best,
best mates and, you know, finishing school and try to
celebrate something else. Yeah, and Hayden, then when you
get you got selected and and then sort of putting that
uniform on for the first time playing in your first game.
Do you want to describe that feeling and and I suppose how
vivid that memory is? Yeah.
(11:34):
But actually sort of feels like yesterday they just got up here.
I remember I came in, I think I had a little knee injury at the
start of the year. So I didn't think that first
year I thought would just be a bit of a rehab development year.
And then I came back, played twogames in the needful or the VFR
now. And I think Callum Sinclair and
(11:58):
Sam Naismith had both been down with the injury and sort of
looking around at who could rock.
And I wouldn't thinking me as a as a young player and don't
think I was quite ready at the time.
But then when Horse said that I was debuting, it's almost like
what I'd been through was worth it.
Just had a sense of pride and I just wanted to tell my family
(12:20):
straight away. And then getting out in the
field, the intensity levels and,and being, you know, an AFL
player for one game, what were you feeling?
Yeah, massive little adrenaline,really.
I remember my first game was Fremantle and that was when
Aaron Sander, Lance was playing and and Darcy.
So I had two pretty big rocks tocome against.
(12:43):
But I remember just, yeah, Josh Kennedy game by Jersey and, and
from there it's almost a bit of a blur and it's sort of like
some fast motion. It was just so exciting.
It was so fun. It was just everything that I
did think it was going to be. And life as an AFL player now
I'm playing, you know, 70 odd games.
Has that feeling stayed around the the AFL system?
(13:04):
Being a professional athlete, isit everything that you dreamed
of or is it, you know, I supposethere's, there's up days and
down days. Yeah, definitely.
I love it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't switch
this for anything. I think that's why I did
everything I could to get here. But yeah, everything has its ups
and downs. You know, if your team's going
well, it's fine and it's exciting.
(13:25):
And then when it's not going so well in the media's at the team
or individually, it can be a bitof a grind at times.
But I think with what's so good about our club is most of us
aren't actually from Sydney, so it's a bit of a family
connection and we all look aftereach other in house really well.
(13:46):
And just touching on that with, with the press and the media,
there's a lot more eyes on you now that you are an AFL player,
an established AFL player for a,for a club that's got a long
history and sells out. It's it's game.
Obviously you need to keep yourself super fit, but also
probably keep yourself mentally fit as well.
What do you do from that point of view to make sure you get
your head right? Yeah, that was probably took me
(14:09):
3 or 4 years to get the balance of being a professional footy
player but also having a life. So I started uni and it was just
pre COVID just to do something outside which was construction
management and property. And then I'll change this year
hopefully into commerce by the end of the year.
But last two years a lot of us boys picked up golf.
(14:33):
I think pre COVID everyone, you know, everyone sort of picked up
the golf clubs. But I think just having that
release on the day off for four or five hours and not talk
footy, just go play a different sport, compete in a different
way is a really good thing that we've gotten and a really good
balance that we have. Yeah, the the 24/7 thinking
about footy, is it hard to switch?
(14:54):
Off, yeah, I think in season it can be, you know, if you play a
game, say the Friday night in Melbourne, then you go see your
family for dinner or something, you're still thinking about the
game or what you could have donebetter or what you did do well.
It's just trying to get that balance of when you're at the
club you switch on and you you're immersed in it, but when
(15:15):
you're outside the club it's almost try to leave your work
there and not think about it toomuch.
But they can drift in a lot of the time.
Yeah, I was going to say if you go and have a, you know, chicken
parmesan at the local pub just to switch off, there'll be
someone that will probably recognise you and therefore the
footy is back on again. How do you deal with that?
Yeah, look, I think being in Sydney's probably a bit of a
(15:36):
blessing with that. Don't get recognised too much,
although the last probably 2-3 years it's really increased and
I think footy in NSW is really growing, which is great to
experience because I remember I first got here at school clinics
and going to local clubs. I had no idea of who we were or
whatever footy was really throwing the ball like an NRL or
(15:58):
kicking it like a soccer ball. So I've been trying to switch
on. Off here is a bit easier than
say than Melbourne or Adelaide or Perth, but the people are
friendly up here and IT and at the end of the 80s a privilege
to be in this position and I remember as a kid when I saw an
FL player I used to love it. Just on touching on on the golf
(16:19):
mate, are you any good? I'm not too bad.
We always compare our our handicaps, but I think I went
down to about a 12 so. Yeah, right.
Can roughly hit it, yeah. And how does that compare with
some of your teammates? No, there's a lot of boys.
There's a few single digits. I think Matt Roberts might be
off about 3. Errol's really good, He's about
(16:42):
four, I think 4 1/2. So there's a lot of competition
with the club. And your favourite course to
play on? I like playing.
Dad's a member of Woodlands in Melbourne, which is a really
nice course playing there, but all of us boys are at the coast
in Malabar up in Sydney, which is a great course along the
(17:02):
coastline. And have you you settled into
Sydney? Well, yeah.
Definitely, I think first few years you sort of get your your
bearings and learn the place. But like Sydney is such a
beautiful place. As I said before, it's it's not
fully central and the beaches and the weather, it's it's a
really nice place to to live andget away from it all.
(17:24):
And you've got, I think you've kicked 35 goals at the SCG or in
and around that about do you, doyou have a favourite goal or a
favourite moment? And and every time you kick a
goal at A at a packed out crowd,I suppose the the dopamines must
be high and the adrenaline must be high.
Yeah, you can definitely get carried away a little bit at the
SCG. I think the fans are so, so
massive and exciting there. I think with the team with
(17:48):
perhaps and all that celebrate big, they expected every time.
So I think one against Melbourne, I think it was a bit
early season last year, I was onthe pocket and kicked one there
and the crowd was going go wild and got sucked in a little bit.
But it's a good experience. And and life after footy, we
don't want to think about it toomuch right now, but you did
(18:08):
mention about a degree there. What sparked your commerce?
What are you interested outside of, of footy when it comes to to
studying and or you know, potentially in 15 years time?
Yeah. So going into commerce, it needs
to do a sort of businesses and we'll just hopefully do some
work experience this year with acompany that sort of gets
(18:30):
startup businesses and, you know, invest capital for them
and, and grows their business from a small to a large.
So I've got a bit of an interestin that at the moment and, and
growing businesses and you know,starting with a little startup
and and growing a little product.
Yeah, in in the sense that you'll be involved in that
startup or just investing in it?I definitely would like to be
(18:53):
hands on with it. I think to be like fully, you'd
like to start somewhere and see where you can take a project or
a company and say grow as your own.
Yeah, I'm going to ask a few personality traits on the back
of that one. Is that are you a curious mind?
Is it, do you sort of wander around around businesses and
like actually how do they make money?
(19:14):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's probably post COVID
podcast became a big thing for me.
You know, Diary, the CEO, I lovelistening to him and just seeing
how different businesses have grown and, and what each person
sort of investment routes are and both personally and as a
business. And that's just something that
(19:37):
sort of drawn me in and, and what can I do now to to be
helping myself in, you know, 30-4 years?
Yeah, you sound like a a prosperous type of guy.
You, you obviously want people to succeed etcetera.
Are you? Are you overly a confident man?
I'd say in stuff that I believe in, and I'm good at that,
definitely, yeah. I think especially with footy,
(20:00):
you have to be, you sort of haveto have that confidence in
yourself, especially in industry.
That can change very quickly. One of the words which I've used
or athletes have used in previous podcasts is they have
to be a little bit selfish when it comes to sport sometimes.
How do you sit with that word? Yeah, I think it's definitely,
(20:23):
it can't be too selfish. It's more you can't get sucked
in and listen to too many peopleoutside of your network.
You know, a lot of people come to you with other ideas or
opinions or ways that you shouldbe doing or playing.
And sometimes you just need to, you know, be selfish and listen
to yourself or that one or two persons that you have in your
(20:45):
corner because you can get wrapped up in it pretty quick.
Do you, I mean people say you you back yourself, Do you back
yourself as they've been hard todo sometimes?
I think this definitely fluctuates, but I've always had
a real sense of backing myself and I think probably doing it,
you know, getting drafted different ways, really showing
(21:07):
that I had to back myself then and that I do still now because
I know that feeling of not beinghere or missing out.
I really don't want that again. So I know I've got to back
myself individually that that I can do it.
And you sound like you're resilient.
You've got a lot of resilience in you.
How do you use that resilience, I suppose, to prosper as a
(21:29):
player now? Yeah, I think the resilience has
probably shown me that you can'tbe complacent.
Probably when I was underage 17,I was going well and doing
really well and I didn't really change much going into my 18th
year, which that itself was probably a lesson that you've
just got to keep evolving and adapting.
(21:50):
The game's growing so quickly and you know the new rules and
the changes is something you have to either adapt to or you
get left behind. And you've been competitive all
your life. Are you ultra competitive?
Do you get really competitive onthe golf course and maybe in the
game of Scrabble as well? Yeah, yeah.
Anything I do, I get really competitive, whether it's car
(22:11):
games with housemates or my partner or is that golf course
or it's just simply, you know, competing with myself and trying
to save or invest as much as I can.
And then from a winning point ofview, in terms of playing games,
you reckon you've been on the right side of the Ledger all
your life in terms of win, loss or about even?
Oh no, I reckon being pretty lucky, I think I'd be positive.
(22:35):
I reckon we had a little down patch probably for two years,
but every other year we've been in the final.
So I reckon, yeah, be a positive.
Yeah, been a positive and as a kid you always wanted to to win
in any game. Did you ever compete in
individual sports as well? Yeah, I did tennis by myself,
(22:57):
but other than that I was prettymuch team sports.
And I think about it, I was basketball and did a bit of
volleyball as well at school. I was going to say just.
Last, the basketball and volleyball would have helped a
little bit, yeah. Definitely, I played that pretty
competitive till I was probably about 16.
I had a knee injury and had to sort of give up the hard court
so stuck to footy. But I just love, you know,
(23:20):
playing with other players and working together on an objective
and getting to that end goal. Yeah, I want to touch on that,
the individual performance of yourself on the AFL field, plus
there's also the roles that you play within the team.
Is there some sort of like, I mean, is it hard to kind of
balance sometimes? I definitely, I think it's as a
forward, it can be hard if you're not getting a kick or
(23:42):
it's not coming down you it's you should have had that battle
with do I just try to do something myself or change
something? Or it's whether you stick to
what the team needs and majorityof the time that actually is the
right option. And when you go, you know, in
your own silo and don't do it asa team, you actually go
backwards and you can't battle that at times.
(24:05):
But I think that's why we've been such a successful team,
just purely because we all have a default of falling to the
team. Yeah.
Are you a patient person? Not too patient, no.
I think in most things I do, I want to sort of get it done
quick and and see a bit of rewards early.
(24:26):
But I think football definitely teaches you patience and each
year I probably do get a bit better with it, but I'm still
very instant and want to get stuff done.
Do. You get nervous.
Sometimes, yeah, but I think each year it's become more of a
excitement and sort of that eagerness just to go out and
(24:50):
play. Now there's obviously some games
that you get nervous or in situations you do, but I think
compared to my first couple years to now, it's definitely
not as much nervous. It's more just excitement and
happy to be out there. And the game is is a long game.
Does your brain stay with the game the whole time?
Does every now and then it sort of drift off a little bit?
(25:12):
Or is it, Is it, is it hard to make sure you keep continuing in
the flow, particularly if the ball's at the other end of the
the field? Yeah, I think we've done a bit
of work last year with Emma Murray and it's sort of having
that you can only focus on one thing at a time.
So, you know, when the goal's being kicked or you've got taken
off or you're walking back to the goal square, that's when you
(25:33):
can actually just turn your brain off and just walk back to
the square, reset. And then once that ball bounced
back up, that's when you sort ofsnap back in and focus because,
yeah, for three hours you can't be focusing 100% or else you
just, yeah, fatigue or, or slip mine.
What? Do you think about?
(25:53):
For me, it's just walking back to the goal square.
I sort of just look down and andtry to turn my mind off what's
happened and look in the crowd and just actually take in what's
going on around. Yeah, I think you make the golf
handicap. No unless I played bad that week
maybe, but. Your shopping list like I forgot
something at woollies. I need to order that.
(26:14):
Sometimes things do pop in, I mean like whether it's uni or
something pops in. You can think some random things
in a game, but that's when you sort of lay yourself to switch
off. And while I'm resetting for that
1015 seconds, just try to think about something else and then
get back to it. Hey mate, your lover of of
restaurants and food. You've got a favourite dining
(26:35):
spot in Sydney and Melbourne. In Sydney there's actually, I'm
in Coogee and there's a little Italian spot around the corner
called Louis, which is a nice little Italian spot, not too
busy as well, which is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of restaurants up here and then Melbourne, nothing
(27:01):
really jumps in. Oh, there's actually, I think
it's in Brighton, potentially 10Greeks Plate.
It's a very nice Greek restaurant there, which has
always been a birthday special. And then if you had a
destination that you had to go to or to holiday, it sounds like
it potentially could be Italy orGreece, but what what would be
your favourite country that you'd want to travel to or go
(27:22):
back to? Go back to, I love Barcelona and
London, did that a couple of years ago with the boys and that
was a great trip. First time in Europe.
So seeing the whole culture difference was great.
But I think at the end of the year I'd love to go to Japan,
you know, see Tokyo, but then also do the skiing and and the
(27:44):
snow over there, whether that's the end of this year or post
footy with the snowing, with thesnowboarding.
But Japan would be beautiful. Yeah, I was quite jealous of all
the Instagram posts over December or so with all.
Different places. Family in Japan, certainly a bit
of a thriving, thriving hotspot.Mate of mine's actually looking
(28:05):
at potentially starting a 2020 cricket tournament over there,
which might be a business expense for me to go over and
mate. Do you, do you end up, do you
watch sport? Do you watch the AFL at all?
Or you just sort of switch off now you're a player.
No, I'll watch it pretty heavilyprobably for first half of the
season. It's good to have that
Indigenous game in Fremantle play the other night just to
(28:26):
have 40 on again was was exciting and they love watching
other teams and sort of seeing where they're at especially
we're going to verse them soon. So I do love watching, yeah the
AFL, but towards the back end itcan be a bit of a 24/7 thing.
So you I don't watch it too muchjust to switch off.
And, and some advice for for kids out there that are playing
(28:48):
sport at the moment. Some obviously want to be like
yourself and play professional AFL and some might not have that
dream but end up becoming reallygood.
But others just want to play forfun.
And there's a lot of parental advice out there as well when it
comes to, to sport. What what's some advice from a
from your point of view? Now being a professional athlete
playing in the AFL, which is a dream for many kids, to to give
(29:10):
that some advice to some of these kids.
Yeah, I think probably every year it becomes more of a
serious actually industry. You could probably even 17 year
olds are in the media these daystalking about what they're going
to pick in sort of what top ten pick in two years they're going
to be. So there's a lot of pressure and
(29:31):
highlight and spotlight on them.But I think just what I really
used to do is just actually enjoy playing, enjoy the
process. Obviously you have to be serious
when you're playing and training, but it's enjoying it,
you know, whether it's playing basketball or tennis or just
having different outlets as a kid, especially while you can
(29:53):
and you've got the time, it's just to enjoy anything you
really do enjoy and have interest in I'm.
Going to touch on that, serious versus fun.
Have you always played footy andenjoyed footy and now you're
obviously playing it for a living, which is serious and
there's money involved? Can you just sort of describe
your sort of relationship between fun and serious?
(30:14):
Yeah, and that's I think that's where you learn each year, that
balance of of having fun and being serious.
But it's actually funny when youwhen you do just have fun and
playing out with your mates. And that's what we did, started
last year really well. We just went out and had fun and
the fully reflected that it was exciting, it was rewarding.
(30:36):
And if we had a mistake, it, it wasn't at the end of the world
where sometimes you can go that serious side and, and really try
hard. And if you make a mistake, you
can dwell on it or think about it for, you know, a quarter or
two and it can actually affect your your performance.
So I think it's almost being serious, but taking it light
(30:57):
hearted. That's not the end of the world
if you miss a kick or drop a mark because you've got the next
context to redeem that. Yeah, and just touching on the
game of footy, the game of AFL for you, what makes it so fun
and enjoyable and I suppose addictive for you as well?
Yeah, I think it's the the competing every week.
(31:18):
I think going out with 2223, basically your mates every week
in that race. I think there's no other feeling
that that replicates it, that adrenaline, the excitement, but
then also the physicality and competitiveness of the game
itself. And you know, no matter how good
(31:40):
you are, there's always scope toimprove.
And you sort of get addicted to that, wanting to improve, be
better. But that's individually or as a
team, something that just excites you and keeps drawing
your back. And then when you're on a bit of
a roll and you're winning consistently week on week, which
you guys were doing last year, how does that I suppose affect
(32:02):
your learnings as well as I suppose your, your ability to
keep going and keep winning? And then obviously when you
lose, you're like, well, that would sort of do.
Yeah, I think the good thing that you know, horse with us as
a as a young team and we're on those roles is he's very good at
still picking out things that we're not doing so well.
(32:25):
You know, it's easy to, if you win 456 on a row to sort of just
mask up or, you know, forget those little cracks.
But the one thing he's been verygood at is really keeping us in
that place. And it was giving us honest and
positive feedback. And that's probably why we did
get on those big streaks. As much as we're winning, we're
(32:46):
still fixing a lot of things along the way.
And then we did, I guess, lose acouple.
The waggon wheels didn't completely fall off and we got
back to our best pretty quick do.
You have a favourite time to play.
Friday night games are all Saturday nights are pretty
special. I think the start of the week,
(33:08):
that Friday night you sort of know first game of the weekend
set the time for the week as a team and and most spectators are
watching. She sort of just had that
feeling of want to want to go out and compete and and win for
the weekend. And when you travel, being so
tall, how do how do you go? Yeah, not too.
We're pretty lucky we get the, you know, the exit seats has
(33:31):
been on the taller 1 so we get that.
But travelling is a group. It is a fun time and and we love
travelling away games just for the enjoyment.
Your favourite ground outside the SCG?
Optus Stadium is pretty good, a lot of the big ground and and
(33:52):
that's where I debuted. So it's got a bit of
significance to me, but it's pretty hard to go past the MCG.
A nice day game there on the Saturday Alvo or Sunday Alvo is
a magical place with the the suncoming, setting down and and
playing on such a historic ground.
And how do you go with your sleep mate?
You got a good sleeper. Pretty good post games, don't
(34:14):
really sleep too much. Sort of all those people that
you're so upbeat and so much adrenaline in the game and then
post game you know you probably have it for a few hours and
probably get to sleep till 4:00 or 5:00 AM that night.
So whether you do a good game ora bad game, you're thinking
(34:34):
about the game. I've got the a new segment which
I've introduced the last couple episodes called the Scoreboard
Moment and it's the one moment that's defined your career or
the one moment that you rememberin your career, which basically
has shaped the path and direction.
I'm interested to know what the scoreboard moment for Hayden
McLean is. There's probably one that sticks
(34:54):
out. Actually, I touched on it before
the under 12 school boys. I remember I was actually
rocking against a fellow player,Ethan Casey, and he was ahead
above everyone. And I was getting dominated in
one of the trial games, the first one in the morning and you
had another game in the afternoon.
And my dad in the car park basically just sat me down and
(35:17):
said, you know, recruiters and and people aren't watching.
If you're going to beat him, your expectation is not to to
beat him, but not to give up andjust have a crack really show
that competitive and fight that that I do have.
And I was probably giving up a bit in that first game and
probably thought I was meant to win.
(35:39):
So I didn't really showcase much.
And then that second game after talking to Daddy's like, you
know, you can either lose again and not impact or just go out
and try physically either, you know, jump into him or bash him
or run around the game, run around the ground and beat him
in other areas. And that's probably stuck with
(35:59):
me even till now when I'm comingup against, you know, Sean Darcy
or players that are bigger than me.
Let's try to find different avenues that I can beat them in.
And Hayden, you've a dream come true to play one AFL game.
You're in the mid 70s. What's what defines success for
Hayden McLean now moving forward?
(36:22):
Yeah. It's funny how it sort of
changes over the years. You want to get that first game
and then you get that and then it's your first win and then
finals. And I think for me now it's,
it's continuing to develop cement that sort of forward
position in that forward line. But then having sort of two
(36:43):
grand finals that haven't gone our way.
I think ultimate success at the moment would be, you know, to
get the other side of that and and win a grand final.
Hayden, thank you so much for being part of the The School
Board podcast series. Congratulations on your
achievements thus far as a Sydney Swan player and and the
number of games that you've played in the two grand finals
(37:04):
that you've played as well and all the best in the 2025 season
coming up. Thank you, Chris.
Appreciate that.
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