June 13, 2025 • 57 mins
In Episode 85 of Scoreboard, Chris Titley speaks with Olympic gold medallist Michael Klim about the journey beyond the pool—and the mindset shifts that came after life changed course.
Michael opens up about living with chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP), a rare autoimmune disorder that affects the nerves and has left him unable to walk unaided.
He shares how the condition forced him to re-examine his identity, values, and what truly matters—well beyond medals and records.
We talk about:
💥 The team spirit behind an individual sport
💥 His long friendship with Gary Hall Jr
💥 Launching his swim school
💥 And what happiness means now, post-elite sport
Michael also shares why he founded the Klim Foundation—to raise awareness and provide support for those living with chronic neurological conditions like CIDP.
🌐 Learn more or support the foundation: www.klimfoundation.org.au
📌 Subscribe for more stories from every corner of the game.
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#ScoreboardPodcast #Olympics #MichaelKlim #CIDP #swimming #resilience #identity #chronicillness #sport #foundation #purpose #teamculture
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, it's Chris Titley here. And on today's episode of The
Scoreboard, I'm joined by Michael Klebermichael.
Thank you so much for being partof this series.
Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me.
Looking forward to it. Michael, we sit here on Friday
the 13th of June and omen potentially, I don't know, is it
good luck or bad luck? I'm not too sure these days.
Probably bad luck, isn't it? What?
(00:21):
Look, I'm very fond of the number 13 I was born on on the
13th. It wasn't a Friday, but still I,
I kind of, I gravitate to that number.
We've just had a full moon as well.
So it's all a couple of days ago.
So it's all. It's all happening.
This is gonna be a great podcast.
It is and and it took us a little while to get into the
(00:42):
studio here. There's two sort of 40 something
year old blokes trying to get a podcast going.
It's a little difficult, but we're we're here now.
We made it. We, we, we did, you know, like I
think there's so many different platforms, but we're we managed
to get there and I'm looking forward to it.
Michael, as we sit here in the middle of June 2025, how's your
your week been and how's your year been so far in 2025?
(01:06):
Oh my, my week, to be honest, has been quite, quite nice.
I've, I've, I've been to travel between Australia and Bali, as I
have been for the last 13 to 14 years.
And I've had a pretty busy period in, in Australia with
treatment and work and, and family time and just recently
returned back to Bali to, to runmy SIM programme Klim Swim.
(01:31):
So kind of coming back to routine and to a slightly
different pace of life. And yeah, so this this week has
been kind of recuperative, I should say.
I I I'm building up my social fitness, I call it because I've
I've lost that around sort of covad time.
And when I got sick, I sort of, yeah, I, I really avoided social
(01:55):
interaction and also putting myself out there.
But it's, you know, I think now with a lot of things in that
I'm, I'm, I'm trying to get intothe market from the, from the
Climb Foundation to climb swim and other projects that are
happening. You have to be, you have to be
present, and you have to be. Approachable.
(02:16):
Absolutely. Now I was texting you last week
and you're the the, the GC, the Gold Coast.
What were you doing there and how do you compare the GC to
Bali? Well, I was actually on the way
back from Noosa. We, I'm, I'm very lucky to be
part of a, a food and wine festival called Noosa Eat Drink.
And we just completed that and my partner's working on the Gold
(02:40):
Coast at the moment. So I, I just accompanied her.
I like the Gold Coast. I've lived there before.
And it's, yeah, it's a place that I think I can see myself
living in in a not too distant future.
But in compare, in comparison to, to Bali, look, it's Bali's
got something special about it. You know, there is this kind of
(03:03):
organised and unorganised chaos and it still has a pretty strong
kind of culture that you, you know, I think it underpins the
whole, the whole island. But there is, it's constantly
changing. But it's also very much like the
Gold Coast where this constant construction and you want to,
you can't really keep up with the demand.
(03:25):
So, but for me there is, you know, I just find even when I
land and walk, when I'm walking and across the tarmac, most of
the time they put you on buses, even the, the temperature, the
smells, you know, it automatically puts me in a, in a
kind of a, a different mood. And Michael, you, you talk about
living in different places, yourupbringing was in different
(03:48):
places. And I, I think you moved to
Australia when you're around about 12:00 or so.
Do you want to talk a little bitabout your movement and your
upbringing then and the memories, I suppose, of
Australia? Yeah, I look, I'm now I, I
consider it as a bit of a blessing that I had such a
varied and diverse kind of upbringing.
(04:09):
My dad, excuse me, through his work commitments, travelled all
around the world. We, we were stationed in India
for five years and Germany and Canada and we eventually
migrated to Australia at the ageof 11 when I was 11.
So I think at the time, as hard as it was for a kid to change
(04:30):
cultures and friendship groups and environment, I look at it
now that it's made me a lot more, I would say cultured and
adaptable. And I, I think I've remained
very much a bit of a nomad. I like being on the move.
And not because I'm running fromthe law or anything, but it's
something that that it, it just keeps me fresh and, and, you
(04:53):
know, I like to travel. I I think it's, yeah, it's one
of those past times that I thinkI'd like to do until I die and
I'm like travelling and experiencing new places and new
people. And so.
But arriving in Australia at theage of 11 in a completely
different culture environment coming from Canada and it was a
(05:18):
little bit daunting. You know, I, I was still wasn't
speaking English all that well. I look quite different and and
yeah, probably took me a a few years, a couple years to look, I
guess blend into to everybody else.
But you know, one thing that helped me and always has is
(05:40):
being my sport, my swimming. And I was able through through
swimming to automatically fall into that environment very
easily. And, you know, I joined the
Melbourne Swimming Club at the State Swimming Centre and I was,
you know, I felt comfortable around the pool.
And that was something that was always familiar to me.
(06:00):
So no matter, you know, what country we're living in, what
language is being spoken around me, I felt like that was a bit
of an anchor. And it gave me, I think I, I
developed a lot of my confidence, which I was an
introverted kid because of all these, I guess the differences
that I possessed it, it gave me confidence because I was able to
(06:25):
kind of express myself through the sport.
When do you remember jumping in a pool for the first time?
Was it in Canada or was it earlier than that?
Oh, much earlier I, I, I remember going to swimming
training in in Poland, you know,probably around the age of 8 or
9. So I, you know, I've got
(06:45):
memories of swimming pretty muchmy entire life.
I, you know, if I think about it, I've probably been swimming
for about four decades. So I'm swimming is, yeah, it's
been such a big part of my life,and not just from a competitive
standpoint, but as a character building and value creation kind
(07:09):
of activity that, you know, I'vebeen able to, I guess, rely on
at times and also fall back on at times.
And it taught me a lot of lessons, good and bad.
And yeah, so swimming has been kind of profound in a way.
Has your relationship with swimming changed over time?
(07:29):
Oh, absolutely. I think you, you know, I when I
was competing, I was so driven and it was AII don't know,
people ask me how did how did I stay so motivated and devoted to
the sport And I can't as a competitive athlete and I can't
really pinpoint why. You know, I know that my parents
(07:52):
travelled and sacrificed and made, made choices for, for us,
myself and my sister Anna, who played competitive tennis.
And, and I knew that in the backof my mind that they had made
those sacrifices. But that wasn't really the
driving force. It was almost like I, I don't
know, I had this insatiable hunger to, to find out how fast
(08:15):
or how far I could take, take the sport.
And as I was getting better, I, I found there was more belief
and support from other coaches and swimmers and, and, you know,
just kept on fuelling that fire.But yeah, for me, swimming has
been, you know, such a Yeah, I think it it, it taught me a lot,
(08:35):
especially in those tougher times, as you know, probably
after the 2000 Games. But after that point, you know,
it was very much, yeah, there was this, this drive to, to see
how far I could take it. And you touched on support there
for a second that the, the support network through your
youth and people you know, competing at different events
(08:58):
and you know, geography and moving around etcetera.
Do you remember those that that support network there, the
people that invested in you at the time?
Yeah, definitely. And, and that's, that's a beauty
about swimming. It's still relatively an amateur
sport. I think it's still, you know, up
to a certain point, it's still very much an amateur club
(09:20):
atmosphere where you have your Friday night race night with a
Barbie and people, you know, raising money for, for club
uniforms. And there is, you know, the
swimming families are so tight knit.
They support each other, they carpool, they, you know,
there's, I think there is this still a very tight knit kind of
(09:40):
community feel to the sport. And I, I remember that
distinctly even living at the Institute of Sport where, you
know, swimmers came from all around the country, you know,
from Perth to Aubrey and myself from Melbourne.
But we became a family and the coaches were put on barbecues on
Sunday. And we, I think there is, I
(10:02):
think it's, I think that's why swimming is people regarded as
an individual sport, but that, that, that community and, and I
guess the team aspect of it is kind of underrated.
And it's something that I remember distinctly.
So, you know, my Lynn Fowley, who was my, I guess my, my AIS
(10:25):
mum when I was living there, shewas the, the block supervisor
for a while, then the team manager and people that sort of
guided me, my, my coach who was became my, my dad almost, you
know, when I moved out at home at the age of 16 And you know, I
literally would do anything thathe, he said he, you know, like
I, I listened to him, I trusted him, I had faith in him.
(10:48):
So yeah, I think there's, I distinctly remember that no
matter where we went, that that community was just as strong.
And I think that's probably why I was so drawn to it.
You touched on the individual aspect then, but a lot of your
trophy success came from relays and I suppose you did realise
(11:09):
through your youth as well and that's part of a team.
How did you balance, I suppose refining your own individual
performance alongside getting toknow your team mates and
building a team? Yeah, it's really interesting
and I, I wish, I wish I, I was able to replicate that same
mental mindset that I had on theblocks when I was swimming in
(11:32):
relays compared to when I was swimming individually.
And even though I had some greatresults individually, I've, I'm,
you know, all my best times and splits always happen in the
relay environment. And I think that's taking, you
know, I think obviously just identifying it in on, on
reflection was taking the pressure away from my individual
(11:55):
performance and success and being judged on how I performed,
but actually just contribution and playing a role.
And it wasn't really about an individual time, but just making
sure you just do the best you can for your team and the time
was almost irrelevant. So I put a lot of pressure on
(12:15):
myself. And when I was swimming
individually, there was a lot ofalways predictions and hype,
especially early on in my career.
And I think that I think that that kind of showed a lot of the
times when I was in on in those finals and and with a lot at
stake, you know, there's there'sraces where I didn't handle very
(12:37):
well. There's some that I did, but in
relays I just felt that there was a, I don't know, just a
different feeling. You know, you're assuming not
only for your teammates, for your country.
There is, there's that sense of support.
And yeah, I really, I really loved it.
Do you think you're more nervouson the individual race?
(12:58):
Is that do you think you know? That would be an assumption.
I wouldn't say the I wouldn't say nervous because I think
nerves happen at at any kind of stage of competition, but I
think managing expectation, I think the expectations were
different when you're swimming for a relay.
(13:20):
And yeah, I think it, I think being in surrounded by your
teammates right up to the point of your race.
Definitely for me, it helped. I was, you know, probably a
swimmer that would get over roused or over focused and just
a little bit of tightness. And you, especially in
sprinting, if you shorten your stroke by one or two centimetres
(13:45):
multiplied by 30 strokes, you're, you've already got 60
centimetres that you're, that you're, you know, you've lost.
So I think it's you're, you're dealing with such fine margins
and it can it can really affect you, which obviously for me it
did it. I'm, I'm going to touch on on
the Sydney 4 by 1 for a second here.
(14:06):
You came out of the box, you broke the world record 4818 and
you know you got out of the pool, your other team mates
jumped in. Those moments in between when
you you'd finished and watching your team mates, what were you
doing and what were you thinking?
Well, at first you, you have to sort of make your way out of the
pool. So you go to the side and at
(14:28):
first touching the wall, I actually looked across it,
Alexander Popov, who was about to swim 3rd for Russia.
And he was the old world record holder and my teammate, I didn't
catch his eye, but I, I know that he would have seen the
world record being broken. I, I sort of made my way around
and I actually asked Thorpey to,to confirm that at the time that
(14:52):
I saw on the board was correct. And he said, yeah, you broke the
world record. But then I kind of left him
alone to be and just that whole atmosphere in in that stadium
just was electric. So I, I sort of, I just became a
cheerleader really. I mean myself and and Ash and,
you know, we just yeah, well, one Chris actually was the next
(15:16):
one to finish. So we just started standing
behind the blocks and, and cheering like everybody else.
And, and especially that last 50when Thorpe was mowing down Gary
Hall, we felt ourselves almost, you know, standing over the top
of the blocks. And it felt like at times we'd
fall in. But it was, yeah, we just got
(15:37):
caught up in the moment. And I did like every other
Australian did in that time. Did you, when you saw Thorpey
coming towards you, did you haveany idea where Gary Hall was and
Thorpey was? And until obviously right at
that last bit, we can sort of look over the edge.
We, we knew that he was behind. There was obviously when you're
(15:58):
looking straight on onto the swimmers coming towards you,
it's hard to hard to tell the difference.
And but we even from the head onthe view, we could tell that he
was a fairway behind and there was obviously a big screen above
the scoreboard. And when we looked up at that,
he was a good body length behindwhen he came off the turn.
(16:19):
So it was a, it was a defying moment around sort of between 17
to 15 metres to go where Gary Hall's stroke rate sort of fell
apart. Thorpe's kick lifted.
And I think Thorpe almost felt that there was a shift in
momentum. And then he took another gear
and that's when we we felt that he was, we knew that he was
(16:43):
going to finish strong. It's his, it's a straight
trademark for you know, he was only 17, but already then he was
such a strong finisher. So I've, I wouldn't say I was
confident, but I gave, I gave ourselves pretty much every
chance. You mentioned Gary Hall then you
guys have been very competitive,but have also seen that you're
(17:06):
also friends now out of the pool.
Do you want to talk about your relationship with Gary and how
that all came about? I suppose during the during the
battles, but also after the battles.
Yeah, look, I'm, I consider Gary, you know, one of probably
one of my closest friends in international swimming.
And funny enough there Peter Vandenhoogen Band, who is also
(17:26):
my rival. He's also a great friend of mine
that I catch up regularly and wechat and, and, and, you know,
it's made me realise it's, you know, swimming and sport that it
is only that there is. And I liked I sort of both of
those guys, Peter and Gary used different tactics to, to get the
(17:51):
best out of themselves and but had an incredible competitive
nature that, you know, Gary loved to build up a, a stage
where it was almost, almost a a kind of a theatre performance if
he he wasn't character. And that's what sometimes as a
when now as a coach, I'll talk to my swimmers, say you're
(18:14):
imagine you're putting on a superhero Cape and you're about
to, you know, about to kind of possess these superpowers that
are going to make you swim or feel so much stronger.
And I felt that that's what Garywas bringing, not only the
attention, that rivalry initially between Alex Popov and
himself and then with the Aussies.
(18:37):
He had this great ability to bring this focus and attention
to the races. But also I think he used that
to, you know, to better his own performance.
But he had this at the same time, you know, he had this
great sense of sportsmanship. To give you an example, in 98
when when I won seven medals at the World Championships and you
(19:01):
know, had a had a blinder of a mate and he gifted me a Les Paul
Gibson guitar to to congratulateme.
You know, so I don't recall any other summer ever gifting me
really anything. So to not only something of such
(19:21):
value, but to be so thoughtful. And this is a couple years
before. For the guitar.
So yeah, he was sponsored by Gibson and yeah, so I think, you
know, Gary's, my relationship with him only grew since then.
He supported me with with some medical problems.
(19:43):
He's been obviously had some medical problems himself with
diabetes and became the the onlyI think Olympic gold medallist
that ever compete with diabetes.So his dad is being an
ophthalmologist help me with some eye problems in the past as
well. So we've had he's also on our
(20:03):
Advisory Board for the Klim Foundation.
So he's always been super willing to help.
And recently with with the with the LA fires, he lost everything
and all his metals got burned and.
And it was just so great to see that the IOC reproduced those
medals and re awarded them to him recently.
(20:24):
So yeah, I, I sort of, I've, yeah, I think he's been great
for the sport and he's, yeah, definitely a great mate.
Isn't that great that you, that your mates, but there's two
competitive people going head toAnd and for the listeners out
(20:53):
there that don't know about CIDP, which which you have, can
you give them a bit of an understanding about your story
and and what's happening? Yeah.
So I guess my story is I retiredin those seven.
I started a business in skin care and launched a brand for
men, women and babies and reallysort of took that same approach
(21:16):
that I had in, in, in sport, which is going at 100 miles an
hour, not taking no for an answer, you know, probably doing
more than required. And I was living still already
between two countries and grew this brand over 13 years into 16
different countries. And it was, you know, a success,
(21:39):
but it came at a cost. You know, I, it sort of came at
a cost physically and mentally where I was travelling back and
forth and I was still training very hard.
It was my kind of way to give memental toughness and a bit of
clarity. But I, one thing I neglected,
(22:01):
which I think I obviously had people supporting me and I, I
paid more attention was my recovery and my, my, my mental
health and also my just physicalhealth.
And slowly towards just before COVID, a year or two before
that, I started getting some symptoms in my legs where I had
numbness and sort of in my innerthighs.
(22:24):
And I said started getting really sort of tingling in my,
in my shins and cold feet. And really that year before
COVID in 2019, I, my ankles started flaring up from years
and years before, and my back started flaring up from a
(22:45):
operation I had in 2001. And all these old injuries crept
up and my body just fell apart. And I was, yeah, that was sort
of like a bit of a wake up call.And I started sort of addressing
those issues, but within six months, you know, this CRDP was
already very much active in my, in my body and I started getting
(23:07):
a lot of muscle wastage. I lost the ability to, to walk
really. I, I have minimal sort of
function from the knees down. So my plantar and dorsiflexion
with my ankle is almost, I mean,I've got a fairly just a floppy
foot with, with very little control and on one side, the
(23:27):
other one is little bit better. But so it hit me really hard.
You know, that was sort of we, we tried to preempt a little bit
what was happening with my doctor, Gary Zimmerman, who was,
who was great. He was, who were trying to sort
of sort out my back and then eventually the ankle.
But CIDP had already sort of, you know, attacked me.
(23:50):
And look, I think it's, it's oneof those conditions, it's an
autoimmune conditions where your, your body attacks your own
tissue and with CRDP it, it, it attacks the myelin sheet.
So then the sheet that surroundsyour nerves.
And if that is compromised or fractured, the signal is not
(24:14):
being sent correctly to, to those different parts of your
body. And in my case, it's been
peripherally my, my feet. It's it was a huge shock.
And I can't believe we're comingup just, you know, six years
since my diagnosis. But you know, for someone that
(24:35):
continued pushing myself, not only I still swam a lot, I made
a comeback in 2012. I'd started doing, you know,
running and cycling, adventure racing, you know, surfing, you
know, I was kind of into everything and within probably 6
months I was unable to walk unaided.
I was, I became, you know, just completely changed my, I guess,
(25:02):
yeah, myself, mentally, my personality as I felt like
something was really taken away from me.
I felt like I lost my identity and took me a couple years to, I
guess, come to terms with, I guess with the grief and the
grieving process, which I was indenial of.
(25:25):
I felt there was just a temporary issue that I'll be
able to overcome. And one thing that was tricky
was that everyone that I spoke about or that they knew about it
was saying, oh, you'll be fine. You're you're an Olympic
athlete. You've endured things before.
This is just another little stepping stone.
But deep down inside, I knew this was more than just a
(25:49):
rotator calf injury or a sprained ankle.
And it, it, yeah, it, it hit me deep because my, my entire brand
to for many years was based on my active outdoor lifestyle and
my physique and all these sort of things.
And and then I felt that by thatbeing taken away, I felt that I
(26:15):
would be lost and I wouldn't be not be able to give any value
back to my family. I wouldn't be able to provide.
I wouldn't be able to, you know,I, I guess contribute to society
and all the, you know, the worstthoughts possible.
But it was with great help and support from family and friends
(26:38):
and the swimming community and also just like it people that
have been through tough times, Iguess getting myself mentally
strong to then act with action to try and not necessarily beat
CRDP because there's no cure. But I, I certainly have been
(27:01):
able to stop any sort of, I'm very, very much in terms of my
symptoms and abilities kind of plateaued.
I'm stable. So I'm, you know, I've learned
to live with the condition and I, you know, I've, I've
identified there's so many greatthings that I can still do and,
and live life to the fullest with, with this condition.
(27:23):
And part of that was starting a,a foundation which I wanted
other sufferers and caretakers and get caregivers to maybe not
experience some of those things that I did.
You know, from a mental standpoint from I guess you
become, you become an expert in,in a condition that is
(27:48):
relatively unknown, 2 to 3 and 100,000 people only have this
condition. So there is very little
literature, there's very little protocol.
So the foundation was kind of was created because I
inadvertently became a spokesperson for it and had so
(28:08):
many people contacted me about, you know, being grateful for the
condition being put up, you know, in the public eye.
You touched on grief and denial when maybe you were diagnosed or
someone said that you've you've got this and it's not going to
go away. I'm curious to know how long
(28:30):
that period talking and, and what you, you know, the, the,
the mind dropped, as you said, in terms of I can't do this, I
can't do this good. What was the kind of the
catalyst you reckon to bring youback up to say I can contribute
and I can be a voice and I can be an advocate and life's OK.
The Catalyst, very good question.
So, you know, I had all the tools that I think I I needed to
(28:54):
get to get on top of it in termsof mentally and even physically.
So I had access to the best physios, you know, in sports
science, people from the Institute of Sport.
I had a great, you know, counsellor.
I had, you know, support, a verysupportive partner, family,
friends. But the thing that was lacking
(29:16):
was my own personal motivation. And it was at a time where I was
kind of sabotage, sabotaging my own rehabilitation.
And in not only, you know, I wasdoing some exercise or swimming,
but I wasn't really eating well.I wasn't resting enough.
(29:39):
It was covered. I was drinking too much.
I was, you know, so I was. Yeah.
It was a point where my parents and my partner and, and my
sister and couple other friends said, it's really up to you.
Like you have to, you have to make these changes in your life
(30:00):
bit by bit to, you know, to create a, a new norm.
And, and some people were prettyblunt.
They said, look at, you know, look what you've been able to
create with your SIM schools andyou know, you've got beautiful
kids and supporting family and so many people now are kind of
following you in terms of your journey and, and lifeblood.
(30:24):
Actually, when they reached out to me to be the ambassador for,
for plasma and blood donation was, you know, I get emotional
about talking about it because it was, it came at a very, very
critical time in my mental health journey where I needed
something to give me purpose And, you know, to be a
(30:44):
spokesperson, to be publicly, you know, a leader in a, in a,
in a, in a, in a very small community, kind of, you know,
gave me that sort of motivation to, to change and try and lead
by example. So, you know, my, the biggest
changes had that have happened really, because my, my condition
(31:05):
hasn't really sort of moved for a few years now, have been
lifestyle changes. And with those lifestyle
changes, my mental health is just, you know, I, I look at how
I am now compared to maybe thosefirst two or three years.
It's chalk, chalk and cheese. I can't even actually almost
(31:26):
comprehend it. You know, I, I, I was a recluse.
I wouldn't go out. You know, I was, yeah, sometimes
wouldn't even get out of bed. You know, exercise was foreign
to me. I didn't want to get in the
pool, you know, I I hung up on alot of friends that were calling
and reaching out. And I think it's until the point
(31:47):
that you myself are ready to to take that action for, for
change. It doesn't really matter.
So it was. Yeah, I I guess that was the
defying moment where I realised that it was in my control, no
one else's. It's very powerful.
(32:09):
I'm also curious to know about the, the leaps.
You know, you talked about the leap from where you were to
where you are now. And looking back, it's chalk and
cheese. Those leaps, were they 1% leaps?
Or did you take a giant leap saying I'm not, I'm not gonna
drink alcohol anymore? Or is it more like, let's reduce
the intake into my mouth of whatI'm eating slightly, slightly,
slightly? Or was it less a, a blanket,
like, right. I'm starting from scratch and
(32:30):
I'm doing this, I'm doing that. It, it started for me, you know,
I was very, I think that's when,once I made that clear sort of
decision in my head that I was going to try and improve myself.
And, and probably, you know, starting with just completely
(32:53):
owning my mental aspect and devoting myself to, to being
strict with my counsellor and, and working on, on that grief
process and then really identifying what I can do, what
I can control. And, you know, alcohol was one
of them. My food intake was another.
(33:13):
Going back to those things that are that were very natural to me
in, in creating a routine movement as well.
You know, I, I get so much pleasure from swimming, from
exercising, swimming in the ocean, being outdoors and, you
know, implementing these things back into my life that I never
(33:34):
used to think about that way. I would do them because I know
that made me feel good. But I, you know, for, you know,
one reason. Well, we know why I did it, but,
you know, they disappeared. And even though I had all these
tools, I wasn't using them. So it was for me.
It happened quickly, but it was definitely one step at a time.
(33:56):
And then reconnecting with thosepeople that reached out, how,
how was that experience? Was it a bit cathartic
sometimes? You know, you know, sometimes
people say or you, you hear it all the time when people say the
my illness or this, this trauma or whatever has happened to them
(34:17):
as has been the best thing that's ever happened to them in
their life. And I whenever I used to hear
that, I used to go there as if that that is really the reality.
Why would you wish something like this to happen to you where
it is so hard to deal with? But I'm actually one of those
people now to say that from my condition and my circumstance
(34:41):
and the trauma and the the toughtimes, I, you know, there's so
many things that have turned to a very strong positive in my
life. My connection with my kids is
100 times stronger. I've reconnected with a lot of
friends that, you know, Daniel Kowalski and Ian Thorpe and
(35:04):
Grant Hackett and Simon Cowley, Adam Pine, Brett Hawk.
I mean, I, you know, Chris Fiedler, everyone, you know,
like I've all my management, like, you know, people that have
just reached out and have been there all the time.
I'd stay with Daniel. Every time I go back to Sydney
for my treatment, I, you know, Icatch up with Thorpe directly
(35:28):
and I've got, you know, I felt like connections that probably
were neglected for for years, I think are stronger now.
You know, I'm very fortunate that I've also have a partner
that basically devoted herself to helping me get better.
And that is, yeah, that is that is very rare.
(35:52):
And I feel indebted to for the rest of my life because now
it's, you know, I'm better and it's time for her to kind of now
pursue her, you know, her interests and her her career.
But definitely, you know, there's some things that, you
(36:12):
know, and now I feel like I'm inthis area of kind of service
where I'm, you know, been being able to spread a message where
things, you know, you can tell people that, yeah, things can
get really bad. We will in our lifetime
experience something that is notideal if it's health or if it's
financial or personal or whatever it might be.
(36:34):
But there is a way out of it. And and everyone, you know,
people might have different different recipe to get out of
that that hole. But it is there, there is a
there is a light at the end of that tunnel.
So, yeah, I think being now I look at it and in a sense where
(36:55):
with the foundation, with Lifeblood, with a lot of, even
with Climp Swim, it's, it's moreof an AI feel like my role is in
service and providing, say with Climp Swim, I'm providing
knowledge to, to the, to the grassroots of the sport with
the, you know, I guess raising awareness about blood and plasma
(37:16):
donation with Lifeblood and withthe foundation and now obviously
trying to help any future or current sufferers with CIDP.
So the tide in, in my life has kind of changed.
Whereas before I think it was, and probably a tough one to
swallow being a, being a sprinter, there was a lot of
(37:37):
ego, you know, there was a lot of bravado And, and I, you know,
the moment I dropped that ego about what people are going to
think, how I'm going to look, you know, it's, it's kind of
irrelevant because if anything, maybe I think my personal equity
as a person has probably grown because of what I've been able
to do. So.
(37:59):
And it's, it's kind of, it's really fulfilling to, to be able
to have so many people open up to me about their journeys and
not necessarily wanting help, but to feel comfortable enough
to open up. And it I just felt like I had to
start a foundation where we can create a community that can
(38:21):
share these kind of their stories.
And hopefully one day we, you know, we can raise enough money
to to fund trials and who knows when they find a cure for this
condition. Yeah.
I want to touch on that for a second.
The CIDP, correct me if I'm wrong in terms of the
pronunciation, chronic inflammatory demyelinating
polyneuropathy and thank you. Yeah.
(38:44):
And you mentioned treatment there and you mentioned you're
on the blood thing. Do you want to talk about the
treatment and then the, the connection I suppose to the
treatment and and why that's important?
Yeah, absolutely. So with CIDP, it's why it's it,
it is rare. So like I said, 2, two to three
and 100,000, so similar to M andDM and D obviously through Neil
(39:06):
Danaher and his actions and, andthe big freeze and fight M&D,
they've, they've done such a great job in raising awareness,
funding trials and, and I've almost would love to emulate
kind of what they've been able to achieve.
But with CRDP, it is every, every patient, I guess, has a
(39:31):
completely different journey. And some people it's it's almost
like a brother or a sister to GBS, which is an aggressive and
acute version of CRDP. Is that right?
Yeah, correct. And, and, and a lot of people
make a full recovery out of thatwith, with CRDP, it's, it's
(39:51):
there kind of forever and it's, you know, most probably 3rd 30%
of people can make a recovery. 30 people, 30% of people kind of
stay stagnant like I am and the other 30 you know, have a pretty
steep decline and end up in a wheelchair etcetera.
So, and there is. You know, no one's treatment and
(40:15):
no one's journey is the same. Whereas sometimes with a lot of
other conditions, if it's canceror it's, there are certain
protocols that have almost repeated and people know they
work. And whereas with this, there
hasn't really been enough case studies there.
We, we don't have, you know, from even physiotherapy
protocols how to, what's the best way to, to kind of tackle,
(40:39):
you know, physiotherapy and froma nutritional standpoint, there
hasn't really been a lot done inthat.
So just discovering, yeah, just obviously getting more data
talking. We've got some medical research
people that it will obviously try and work with the
practitioners all around the country and start collating as
(41:03):
much information as we can. And, and we do, we've already
have a pretty substantial patient handbook that hopefully
will clarify a lot of these kindof mysteries that, that come
with having the, this, this disorder that.
And that's probably one of the things that is the hardest thing
to deal with is the uncertainty where you're gonna end up.
(41:24):
You know, like probably the, that's why, you know, it
probably hit me really hard at the beginning because I could
have been in that 30% of people that end up in the wheelchair,
which again, at the time felt completely daunting and
destroying. But I've, you know, like I, you
know, I've, I've met some amazing people that have been
(41:45):
much worse than I, I am right now and still have a very
positive impact on the community.
So yeah, I, I guess the treatments vary to answer your
question from IVIG, which is plasma derived medication and
there's plasma exchange as well,which a lot of people use
steroid treatments. There is a lot of different kind
(42:08):
of immune suppressant medicationas well.
So, and now there is a little bit of, I guess research and
exploration with, with stem cellkind of treatment as well, which
is still inconclusive, but that's where things are heading.
So I guess there isn't, there isn't any treatment that's it's
(42:30):
a cure. It's the treatments are more to
reduce symptoms and improve quality of life.
So, and that's the same thing what we'd like to do with the
foundation, provide services from say Podiatry to
physiotherapy or give you know, people guidance in certain
(42:51):
areas. So and also funding if, if
required. So it is, yeah.
I mean, it's the, it's the gamutof it.
It's it, it is very daunting. And then we'd like to sort of
make streamline that process foreveryone experiencing it.
And in terms of the treatment, are you, can you access the
treatment reasonably, efficiently or is it sort of in
(43:14):
obscure places that you have to travel to etcetera?
Well, I'm very fortunate and in Australia I think we're very,
very lucky and blessed that IVIGis, is, is subsidised and it's
obviously through, through the Red Cross and it's free of
charge. So I'll fly back and have my
(43:35):
treatment every six weeks, typically at RPA at the infusion
centre. And the staff, you know, they've
known them for over six years, they're amazing.
But I have also treatments at Royal Melbourne and had them at
Royal Perth. So there is a lot of flexibility
as well in terms of why you haveyour treatments.
But it is, yeah, it's not the accessibility to it is not, not
(43:59):
the issue. I guess it's progressing in
progressing the types of treatments and there might be
something happening in, in otherautoimmune conditions or other
trials that might eventually benefit us as well.
And we're very much at an infancy stage of of this kind of
(44:21):
of this journey. So hopefully we can discover
some some great news or development in in the near
future. Yeah, with the establishment of
the foundation at its infancy, there's a big, you know, you can
make a big impact, by the way, like you know, and obviously you
want to make a big impact. And, and we're on this podcast,
which is public. I want you to shout out to
(44:41):
someone in that treatment in thehospital, if they're listening
to maybe to say thank you. I'd have to thank my
neurologist, Judy Spears at RPA.She's, she was the 1 I actually
moved from Melbourne to Sydney to see her and she's been there
(45:02):
the whole, the whole way and a very, a very sort of
intelligent, smart woman that, that is, you know, the leading
kind of neurologist in that space.
So, but every like it's even the, all the nurses at the
infusion centres. I, I see how hard they're
working. They're constantly walking
(45:23):
around, you know, treating patients and I just see the, you
know, the hours they're putting in.
And it's not, not just my, my doctors, but it's, it's everyone
that is, is part of these hospitals systems that it, you
know, I just, until I was put inthat situation, I didn't
(45:45):
appreciate how hard and how muchwe rely on these, on these
services. And hopefully with Lifeblood,
we're looking at actually utilising some of the donor
centres as infusion centres as well.
That's something the foundation and Lifeblood are working with.
Potentially in the next sort of 12 months we can for somewhat
(46:06):
simple infusions like my own, wecan offload the hospital system
and do it through a through a blood donor centre.
So there's a lot of great thingsthat we can do in the future.
Mate as you've got into your your mid 40s, I'm going to say
mid 40s not mid to late 40s and I'm turning 44, mid 40s, mid 40s
(46:28):
and dealing with CIDP. Have you become more grateful
yourself? Oh absolutely, I've become more.
My perspective on life has changed and I'm very grateful
that I have, you know, I have amazing people in my life and
(46:49):
and I've realised, I think I touched on earlier that, you
know, we I didn't appreciate howimportant our connection is in
in with with our loved ones. And I think a lot of the time I
prided myself on being able to do things on my own and
succeeding on on my own or having a company that I owned,
(47:11):
et cetera. But I think it's now I valued
probably doing a value kind of quality over quantity.
You know, it's, and that that comes in all aspects of life,
from material things to time, even with, you know, with my
family or friends. So it's yeah, it's been, it's
(47:35):
been transformative. And, and I, you know, I, I, and
it's funny, I don't get FOMO anymore.
I, I, I sort of, I'd leave parties early.
I, you know, I don't do a lot ofthings that I used to do.
I mean, I used to love surfing, just paddling out at sunrise and
waiting for the sun to pop up and catching that first wave.
(47:58):
I can now I can still do that, but I do it on a paddle board
and you know, but it's, I used to have all these so much fun
about the life, my previous life, but now I I don't have
that. And I've been able to look at
this beautiful life that I have with beautiful people and being
able to even talk to you today and you know, share my story.
(48:20):
And hopefully this will might have an impact on somebody
listening out there that there is there isn't another side and
you can make a difference in personally, but there is always
someone around you to to help you as well.
Michael, thank you. Thank you for that and thank you
for sharing that. And, and hopefully there is some
people that are listening that can take that advice.
(48:40):
And part of the reason I do the podcast is to talk to people
like yourself that can offer help and advice and tips and,
and not even just advice, but more so about experiences.
In most podcasts that I do, I, Iask a couple of questions.
One is your scoreboard moment, which is a moment in your life
which is very vivid and very clear.
And from that direction on, things have changed.
We may have touched on it already, Apologies if we have,
(49:03):
but your school board moment, Michael?
We touched on it briefly was wasthe World Championships in
Perth. It was when I guess I I was able
to reach the pinnacle of my sport.
After Mark Spitz, I was the nextperson to ever win 7 medals at a
major competition and four of them gold and becoming a world
(49:28):
champion in Perth in front of a home crowd in front of my
parents. That was.
I still remember what I rememberactually the vivid moment, which
is you'll probably find amusing is getting home after the, the
closing kind of little ceremony that we had at, at Challenge
Stadium. And I was awarded swimmer of the
(49:51):
meet and putting the trophy down.
And everyone by that stage had gone the bed.
And there was a team that that team management and team and my
coach was still there. And I was able to order a steak.
And I was just having after thiscrazy week of, you know, media
and swings and adulation and crowds, there was this, there
(50:13):
was no one else in the restaurant.
There was maybe 3 or 4 people just from the Australian swim
team and it was just me in eating a steak with a trophy
next to it and it was kind of a nice moment of reflection.
So yeah, that that's for me. That was, I remember, that's
(50:34):
weird. I remember almost remember
cutting into that steak. And did someone plonk a bottle I
read next to it? Not at that stage.
Not at that stage, no. I think we're still under team
bylaws, but. That's a great scoreboard
moment, by the way. I love this.
That that, that inner piece of like, I've done it and now I'm
(50:57):
going to enjoy a steak. How good's that?
Simple. Simple, but effective.
Exactly, exactly. And I think I might have crept
into a few Reds after that. And the other question I ask is,
is the your all time favourite sporting moment which can
include yourself? But it's also I'm curious to
know as a spectator as well. It would.
(51:19):
It would have to be the one withmy two roomies and and Ian
Thorpe and Grant Hackett. It was Athens 2004, the 200
freestyle final, where it was regarded as the race of the
century to determine who was theGOAT in the sport of swimming.
(51:39):
And Michael Phelps had very publicly kind of announced that
he wanted to once and for all, you know, I guess, you know,
stamped his authority in in freestyle and and take on take
on the grading. Ian Thorpe.
Thorpe had obviously lost to 200freestyle in Sydney and he was
(51:59):
racing Peter Van and Hoogenbad, who was also in that final hacky
was swimming incredibly well. It it was a stacked field.
And that was kind of the the yeah, the head to head match
that or match the race that I remember watching.
And to see in kind of the way hewas able to control that race
(52:26):
and dominate and and prove that he was the greatest of all time
at that moment was was just sensational.
And to then obviously go back and and celebrate back in back
in the village with with those two guys was, you know, hacky
obviously winning the 1500 on the last night was yeah, I've
(52:52):
I've been very fortunate that I've been is sharing rooms with
Australia's greatest. So I've had, you know, I've had
memories of another vivid momentof, you know, last day of the
Olympics in Sydney where, you know, we come back from the
medley relay. And by that we were getting
(53:14):
little boxing Kangaroos and we put them under the bed and we
looked under the bed and we had it between Thorpe and myself and
Hacky, I think we had about 13 of them.
So. So that was A and yeah, that was
pretty funny moment. What a great all time favourite
sporting moment, Michael. I've got one, one final question
(53:36):
before we we finish. There's a we're living in 2025.
There's maybe a 15 year old out there that that wants to be an
Olympic swimmer, that wants to be a high performing athlete.
What's some advice that you can give them now, looking back now
living in 2025? Look, I, I, I, you know, I've
(53:56):
been very fortunate that I, I've, you know, going back into
swimming and becoming a coach since, since COVID, I've been
able to look at the sport in a different way.
And I'm coaching teenagers. I think sport can teach you a
(54:16):
lot of amazing life lessons. And and you know, I've witnessed
people in the sport, Brett Hawke, for example, who only
only made his his Olympic debut at the age of 25 S for those
teenagers that are 14/15/16 thatare struggling with should I
(54:40):
continue? Should I you know, it's the
easiest thing is the easiest road to take is to quit, to
stop. But if I think from you know,
the, I would say for anyone out there, if it's it's you have to
persevere, be patient because your time will come and you're
giving yourself the the option of more choice.
(55:03):
Because if you're, it may swimming may not lead you in to
the Olympic final, but it might lead you to being a really
employable person, or it might lead you to a different career.
But it whatever it is, it developed traits that people
value. And, and I think, you know, for
(55:25):
me, for such a long time, swimming wasn't about Olympic
gold medals and world records. It was about the people around
me and the people that would support me.
And so I, you know, even my nephew who's going through, I
wouldn't say top three breaststroker in the country at
the age of 14 and is struggling with, you know, progression at
(55:49):
times. And it's about, you know, just
persevering, being patient, trusting the people that are in
your life, in your coaches and even that immediate community.
So yeah, I think, I think perseverance and sport is can
can lead to a lot of great things I think.
(56:10):
Michael Clem, thank you so much for being on school board the
podcast today and congratulations what you've
achieved with your foundation, your stream school and sharing
your story of living with CIDP and sharing a story about your,
your childhood and, and, and allthe things that have come with
it to be who you are today and the identity that you are today.
It's been a absolute pleasure having a chat and and really
look forward to following your progress and helping the
(56:32):
foundation where I can and and continuing to keep in touch.
Yeah, Thank you, Chris. And yeah, thank you for the
opportunity to to share with thethe with the listeners what I
guess I've been through. But it you know that even the
opportunity to be able to share the fact that the foundation is
is out there in its presence. So if if you know anyone that
(56:54):
needs any help, there is the we have support on on our platform.
So make sure you head and and and check it out.
It's it's the clinfoundation.orgdot AU.
Fantastic. And I'll put that in that that
link in all the all the podcastsand the show notes etcetera, so
people can can have a look at it.
And thanks again, Michael. No worries, thanks.
Hi, it's Chris Titley here. And on today's episode of The
Scoreboard, I'm joined by Michael Klebermichael.
Thank you so much for being partof this series.
Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me.
Looking forward to it. Michael, we sit here on Friday
the 13th of June and omen potentially, I don't know, is it
good luck or bad luck? I'm not too sure these days.
Probably bad luck, isn't it? What?
(00:21):
Look, I'm very fond of the number 13 I was born on on the
13th. It wasn't a Friday, but still I,
I kind of, I gravitate to that number.
We've just had a full moon as well.
So it's all a couple of days ago.
So it's all. It's all happening.
This is gonna be a great podcast.
It is and and it took us a little while to get into the
(00:42):
studio here. There's two sort of 40 something
year old blokes trying to get a podcast going.
It's a little difficult, but we're we're here now.
We made it. We, we, we did, you know, like I
think there's so many different platforms, but we're we managed
to get there and I'm looking forward to it.
Michael, as we sit here in the middle of June 2025, how's your
your week been and how's your year been so far in 2025?
(01:06):
Oh my, my week, to be honest, has been quite, quite nice.
I've, I've, I've been to travel between Australia and Bali, as I
have been for the last 13 to 14 years.
And I've had a pretty busy period in, in Australia with
treatment and work and, and family time and just recently
returned back to Bali to, to runmy SIM programme Klim Swim.
(01:31):
So kind of coming back to routine and to a slightly
different pace of life. And yeah, so this this week has
been kind of recuperative, I should say.
I I I'm building up my social fitness, I call it because I've
I've lost that around sort of covad time.
And when I got sick, I sort of, yeah, I, I really avoided social
(01:55):
interaction and also putting myself out there.
But it's, you know, I think now with a lot of things in that
I'm, I'm, I'm trying to get intothe market from the, from the
Climb Foundation to climb swim and other projects that are
happening. You have to be, you have to be
present, and you have to be. Approachable.
(02:16):
Absolutely. Now I was texting you last week
and you're the the, the GC, the Gold Coast.
What were you doing there and how do you compare the GC to
Bali? Well, I was actually on the way
back from Noosa. We, I'm, I'm very lucky to be
part of a, a food and wine festival called Noosa Eat Drink.
And we just completed that and my partner's working on the Gold
(02:40):
Coast at the moment. So I, I just accompanied her.
I like the Gold Coast. I've lived there before.
And it's, yeah, it's a place that I think I can see myself
living in in a not too distant future.
But in compare, in comparison to, to Bali, look, it's Bali's
got something special about it. You know, there is this kind of
(03:03):
organised and unorganised chaos and it still has a pretty strong
kind of culture that you, you know, I think it underpins the
whole, the whole island. But there is, it's constantly
changing. But it's also very much like the
Gold Coast where this constant construction and you want to,
you can't really keep up with the demand.
(03:25):
So, but for me there is, you know, I just find even when I
land and walk, when I'm walking and across the tarmac, most of
the time they put you on buses, even the, the temperature, the
smells, you know, it automatically puts me in a, in a
kind of a, a different mood. And Michael, you, you talk about
living in different places, yourupbringing was in different
(03:48):
places. And I, I think you moved to
Australia when you're around about 12:00 or so.
Do you want to talk a little bitabout your movement and your
upbringing then and the memories, I suppose, of
Australia? Yeah, I look, I'm now I, I
consider it as a bit of a blessing that I had such a
varied and diverse kind of upbringing.
(04:09):
My dad, excuse me, through his work commitments, travelled all
around the world. We, we were stationed in India
for five years and Germany and Canada and we eventually
migrated to Australia at the ageof 11 when I was 11.
So I think at the time, as hard as it was for a kid to change
(04:30):
cultures and friendship groups and environment, I look at it
now that it's made me a lot more, I would say cultured and
adaptable. And I, I think I've remained
very much a bit of a nomad. I like being on the move.
And not because I'm running fromthe law or anything, but it's
something that that it, it just keeps me fresh and, and, you
(04:53):
know, I like to travel. I I think it's, yeah, it's one
of those past times that I thinkI'd like to do until I die and
I'm like travelling and experiencing new places and new
people. And so.
But arriving in Australia at theage of 11 in a completely
different culture environment coming from Canada and it was a
(05:18):
little bit daunting. You know, I, I was still wasn't
speaking English all that well. I look quite different and and
yeah, probably took me a a few years, a couple years to look, I
guess blend into to everybody else.
But you know, one thing that helped me and always has is
(05:40):
being my sport, my swimming. And I was able through through
swimming to automatically fall into that environment very
easily. And, you know, I joined the
Melbourne Swimming Club at the State Swimming Centre and I was,
you know, I felt comfortable around the pool.
And that was something that was always familiar to me.
(06:00):
So no matter, you know, what country we're living in, what
language is being spoken around me, I felt like that was a bit
of an anchor. And it gave me, I think I, I
developed a lot of my confidence, which I was an
introverted kid because of all these, I guess the differences
that I possessed it, it gave me confidence because I was able to
(06:25):
kind of express myself through the sport.
When do you remember jumping in a pool for the first time?
Was it in Canada or was it earlier than that?
Oh, much earlier I, I, I remember going to swimming
training in in Poland, you know,probably around the age of 8 or
9. So I, you know, I've got
(06:45):
memories of swimming pretty muchmy entire life.
I, you know, if I think about it, I've probably been swimming
for about four decades. So I'm swimming is, yeah, it's
been such a big part of my life,and not just from a competitive
standpoint, but as a character building and value creation kind
(07:09):
of activity that, you know, I'vebeen able to, I guess, rely on
at times and also fall back on at times.
And it taught me a lot of lessons, good and bad.
And yeah, so swimming has been kind of profound in a way.
Has your relationship with swimming changed over time?
(07:29):
Oh, absolutely. I think you, you know, I when I
was competing, I was so driven and it was AII don't know,
people ask me how did how did I stay so motivated and devoted to
the sport And I can't as a competitive athlete and I can't
really pinpoint why. You know, I know that my parents
(07:52):
travelled and sacrificed and made, made choices for, for us,
myself and my sister Anna, who played competitive tennis.
And, and I knew that in the backof my mind that they had made
those sacrifices. But that wasn't really the
driving force. It was almost like I, I don't
know, I had this insatiable hunger to, to find out how fast
(08:15):
or how far I could take, take the sport.
And as I was getting better, I, I found there was more belief
and support from other coaches and swimmers and, and, you know,
just kept on fuelling that fire.But yeah, for me, swimming has
been, you know, such a Yeah, I think it it, it taught me a lot,
(08:35):
especially in those tougher times, as you know, probably
after the 2000 Games. But after that point, you know,
it was very much, yeah, there was this, this drive to, to see
how far I could take it. And you touched on support there
for a second that the, the support network through your
youth and people you know, competing at different events
(08:58):
and you know, geography and moving around etcetera.
Do you remember those that that support network there, the
people that invested in you at the time?
Yeah, definitely. And, and that's, that's a beauty
about swimming. It's still relatively an amateur
sport. I think it's still, you know, up
to a certain point, it's still very much an amateur club
(09:20):
atmosphere where you have your Friday night race night with a
Barbie and people, you know, raising money for, for club
uniforms. And there is, you know, the
swimming families are so tight knit.
They support each other, they carpool, they, you know,
there's, I think there is this still a very tight knit kind of
(09:40):
community feel to the sport. And I, I remember that
distinctly even living at the Institute of Sport where, you
know, swimmers came from all around the country, you know,
from Perth to Aubrey and myself from Melbourne.
But we became a family and the coaches were put on barbecues on
Sunday. And we, I think there is, I
(10:02):
think it's, I think that's why swimming is people regarded as
an individual sport, but that, that, that community and, and I
guess the team aspect of it is kind of underrated.
And it's something that I remember distinctly.
So, you know, my Lynn Fowley, who was my, I guess my, my AIS
(10:25):
mum when I was living there, shewas the, the block supervisor
for a while, then the team manager and people that sort of
guided me, my, my coach who was became my, my dad almost, you
know, when I moved out at home at the age of 16 And you know, I
literally would do anything thathe, he said he, you know, like
I, I listened to him, I trusted him, I had faith in him.
(10:48):
So yeah, I think there's, I distinctly remember that no
matter where we went, that that community was just as strong.
And I think that's probably why I was so drawn to it.
You touched on the individual aspect then, but a lot of your
trophy success came from relays and I suppose you did realise
(11:09):
through your youth as well and that's part of a team.
How did you balance, I suppose refining your own individual
performance alongside getting toknow your team mates and
building a team? Yeah, it's really interesting
and I, I wish, I wish I, I was able to replicate that same
mental mindset that I had on theblocks when I was swimming in
(11:32):
relays compared to when I was swimming individually.
And even though I had some greatresults individually, I've, I'm,
you know, all my best times and splits always happen in the
relay environment. And I think that's taking, you
know, I think obviously just identifying it in on, on
reflection was taking the pressure away from my individual
(11:55):
performance and success and being judged on how I performed,
but actually just contribution and playing a role.
And it wasn't really about an individual time, but just making
sure you just do the best you can for your team and the time
was almost irrelevant. So I put a lot of pressure on
(12:15):
myself. And when I was swimming
individually, there was a lot ofalways predictions and hype,
especially early on in my career.
And I think that I think that that kind of showed a lot of the
times when I was in on in those finals and and with a lot at
stake, you know, there's there'sraces where I didn't handle very
(12:37):
well. There's some that I did, but in
relays I just felt that there was a, I don't know, just a
different feeling. You know, you're assuming not
only for your teammates, for your country.
There is, there's that sense of support.
And yeah, I really, I really loved it.
Do you think you're more nervouson the individual race?
(12:58):
Is that do you think you know? That would be an assumption.
I wouldn't say the I wouldn't say nervous because I think
nerves happen at at any kind of stage of competition, but I
think managing expectation, I think the expectations were
different when you're swimming for a relay.
(13:20):
And yeah, I think it, I think being in surrounded by your
teammates right up to the point of your race.
Definitely for me, it helped. I was, you know, probably a
swimmer that would get over roused or over focused and just
a little bit of tightness. And you, especially in
sprinting, if you shorten your stroke by one or two centimetres
(13:45):
multiplied by 30 strokes, you're, you've already got 60
centimetres that you're, that you're, you know, you've lost.
So I think it's you're, you're dealing with such fine margins
and it can it can really affect you, which obviously for me it
did it. I'm, I'm going to touch on on
the Sydney 4 by 1 for a second here.
(14:06):
You came out of the box, you broke the world record 4818 and
you know you got out of the pool, your other team mates
jumped in. Those moments in between when
you you'd finished and watching your team mates, what were you
doing and what were you thinking?
Well, at first you, you have to sort of make your way out of the
pool. So you go to the side and at
(14:28):
first touching the wall, I actually looked across it,
Alexander Popov, who was about to swim 3rd for Russia.
And he was the old world record holder and my teammate, I didn't
catch his eye, but I, I know that he would have seen the
world record being broken. I, I sort of made my way around
and I actually asked Thorpey to,to confirm that at the time that
(14:52):
I saw on the board was correct. And he said, yeah, you broke the
world record. But then I kind of left him
alone to be and just that whole atmosphere in in that stadium
just was electric. So I, I sort of, I just became a
cheerleader really. I mean myself and and Ash and,
you know, we just yeah, well, one Chris actually was the next
(15:16):
one to finish. So we just started standing
behind the blocks and, and cheering like everybody else.
And, and especially that last 50when Thorpe was mowing down Gary
Hall, we felt ourselves almost, you know, standing over the top
of the blocks. And it felt like at times we'd
fall in. But it was, yeah, we just got
(15:37):
caught up in the moment. And I did like every other
Australian did in that time. Did you, when you saw Thorpey
coming towards you, did you haveany idea where Gary Hall was and
Thorpey was? And until obviously right at
that last bit, we can sort of look over the edge.
We, we knew that he was behind. There was obviously when you're
(15:58):
looking straight on onto the swimmers coming towards you,
it's hard to hard to tell the difference.
And but we even from the head onthe view, we could tell that he
was a fairway behind and there was obviously a big screen above
the scoreboard. And when we looked up at that,
he was a good body length behindwhen he came off the turn.
(16:19):
So it was a, it was a defying moment around sort of between 17
to 15 metres to go where Gary Hall's stroke rate sort of fell
apart. Thorpe's kick lifted.
And I think Thorpe almost felt that there was a shift in
momentum. And then he took another gear
and that's when we we felt that he was, we knew that he was
(16:43):
going to finish strong. It's his, it's a straight
trademark for you know, he was only 17, but already then he was
such a strong finisher. So I've, I wouldn't say I was
confident, but I gave, I gave ourselves pretty much every
chance. You mentioned Gary Hall then you
guys have been very competitive,but have also seen that you're
(17:06):
also friends now out of the pool.
Do you want to talk about your relationship with Gary and how
that all came about? I suppose during the during the
battles, but also after the battles.
Yeah, look, I'm, I consider Gary, you know, one of probably
one of my closest friends in international swimming.
And funny enough there Peter Vandenhoogen Band, who is also
(17:26):
my rival. He's also a great friend of mine
that I catch up regularly and wechat and, and, and, you know,
it's made me realise it's, you know, swimming and sport that it
is only that there is. And I liked I sort of both of
those guys, Peter and Gary used different tactics to, to get the
(17:51):
best out of themselves and but had an incredible competitive
nature that, you know, Gary loved to build up a, a stage
where it was almost, almost a a kind of a theatre performance if
he he wasn't character. And that's what sometimes as a
when now as a coach, I'll talk to my swimmers, say you're
(18:14):
imagine you're putting on a superhero Cape and you're about
to, you know, about to kind of possess these superpowers that
are going to make you swim or feel so much stronger.
And I felt that that's what Garywas bringing, not only the
attention, that rivalry initially between Alex Popov and
himself and then with the Aussies.
(18:37):
He had this great ability to bring this focus and attention
to the races. But also I think he used that
to, you know, to better his own performance.
But he had this at the same time, you know, he had this
great sense of sportsmanship. To give you an example, in 98
when when I won seven medals at the World Championships and you
(19:01):
know, had a had a blinder of a mate and he gifted me a Les Paul
Gibson guitar to to congratulateme.
You know, so I don't recall any other summer ever gifting me
really anything. So to not only something of such
(19:21):
value, but to be so thoughtful. And this is a couple years
before. For the guitar.
So yeah, he was sponsored by Gibson and yeah, so I think, you
know, Gary's, my relationship with him only grew since then.
He supported me with with some medical problems.
(19:43):
He's been obviously had some medical problems himself with
diabetes and became the the onlyI think Olympic gold medallist
that ever compete with diabetes.So his dad is being an
ophthalmologist help me with some eye problems in the past as
well. So we've had he's also on our
(20:03):
Advisory Board for the Klim Foundation.
So he's always been super willing to help.
And recently with with the with the LA fires, he lost everything
and all his metals got burned and.
And it was just so great to see that the IOC reproduced those
medals and re awarded them to him recently.
(20:24):
So yeah, I, I sort of, I've, yeah, I think he's been great
for the sport and he's, yeah, definitely a great mate.
Isn't that great that you, that your mates, but there's two
competitive people going head toAnd and for the listeners out
(20:53):
there that don't know about CIDP, which which you have, can
you give them a bit of an understanding about your story
and and what's happening? Yeah.
So I guess my story is I retiredin those seven.
I started a business in skin care and launched a brand for
men, women and babies and reallysort of took that same approach
(21:16):
that I had in, in, in sport, which is going at 100 miles an
hour, not taking no for an answer, you know, probably doing
more than required. And I was living still already
between two countries and grew this brand over 13 years into 16
different countries. And it was, you know, a success,
(21:39):
but it came at a cost. You know, I, it sort of came at
a cost physically and mentally where I was travelling back and
forth and I was still training very hard.
It was my kind of way to give memental toughness and a bit of
clarity. But I, one thing I neglected,
(22:01):
which I think I obviously had people supporting me and I, I
paid more attention was my recovery and my, my, my mental
health and also my just physicalhealth.
And slowly towards just before COVID, a year or two before
that, I started getting some symptoms in my legs where I had
numbness and sort of in my innerthighs.
(22:24):
And I said started getting really sort of tingling in my,
in my shins and cold feet. And really that year before
COVID in 2019, I, my ankles started flaring up from years
and years before, and my back started flaring up from a
(22:45):
operation I had in 2001. And all these old injuries crept
up and my body just fell apart. And I was, yeah, that was sort
of like a bit of a wake up call.And I started sort of addressing
those issues, but within six months, you know, this CRDP was
already very much active in my, in my body and I started getting
(23:07):
a lot of muscle wastage. I lost the ability to, to walk
really. I, I have minimal sort of
function from the knees down. So my plantar and dorsiflexion
with my ankle is almost, I mean,I've got a fairly just a floppy
foot with, with very little control and on one side, the
(23:27):
other one is little bit better. But so it hit me really hard.
You know, that was sort of we, we tried to preempt a little bit
what was happening with my doctor, Gary Zimmerman, who was,
who was great. He was, who were trying to sort
of sort out my back and then eventually the ankle.
But CIDP had already sort of, you know, attacked me.
(23:50):
And look, I think it's, it's oneof those conditions, it's an
autoimmune conditions where your, your body attacks your own
tissue and with CRDP it, it, it attacks the myelin sheet.
So then the sheet that surroundsyour nerves.
And if that is compromised or fractured, the signal is not
(24:14):
being sent correctly to, to those different parts of your
body. And in my case, it's been
peripherally my, my feet. It's it was a huge shock.
And I can't believe we're comingup just, you know, six years
since my diagnosis. But you know, for someone that
(24:35):
continued pushing myself, not only I still swam a lot, I made
a comeback in 2012. I'd started doing, you know,
running and cycling, adventure racing, you know, surfing, you
know, I was kind of into everything and within probably 6
months I was unable to walk unaided.
I was, I became, you know, just completely changed my, I guess,
(25:02):
yeah, myself, mentally, my personality as I felt like
something was really taken away from me.
I felt like I lost my identity and took me a couple years to, I
guess, come to terms with, I guess with the grief and the
grieving process, which I was indenial of.
(25:25):
I felt there was just a temporary issue that I'll be
able to overcome. And one thing that was tricky
was that everyone that I spoke about or that they knew about it
was saying, oh, you'll be fine. You're you're an Olympic
athlete. You've endured things before.
This is just another little stepping stone.
But deep down inside, I knew this was more than just a
(25:49):
rotator calf injury or a sprained ankle.
And it, it, yeah, it, it hit me deep because my, my entire brand
to for many years was based on my active outdoor lifestyle and
my physique and all these sort of things.
And and then I felt that by thatbeing taken away, I felt that I
(26:15):
would be lost and I wouldn't be not be able to give any value
back to my family. I wouldn't be able to provide.
I wouldn't be able to, you know,I, I guess contribute to society
and all the, you know, the worstthoughts possible.
But it was with great help and support from family and friends
(26:38):
and the swimming community and also just like it people that
have been through tough times, Iguess getting myself mentally
strong to then act with action to try and not necessarily beat
CRDP because there's no cure. But I, I certainly have been
(27:01):
able to stop any sort of, I'm very, very much in terms of my
symptoms and abilities kind of plateaued.
I'm stable. So I'm, you know, I've learned
to live with the condition and I, you know, I've, I've
identified there's so many greatthings that I can still do and,
and live life to the fullest with, with this condition.
(27:23):
And part of that was starting a,a foundation which I wanted
other sufferers and caretakers and get caregivers to maybe not
experience some of those things that I did.
You know, from a mental standpoint from I guess you
become, you become an expert in,in a condition that is
(27:48):
relatively unknown, 2 to 3 and 100,000 people only have this
condition. So there is very little
literature, there's very little protocol.
So the foundation was kind of was created because I
inadvertently became a spokesperson for it and had so
(28:08):
many people contacted me about, you know, being grateful for the
condition being put up, you know, in the public eye.
You touched on grief and denial when maybe you were diagnosed or
someone said that you've you've got this and it's not going to
go away. I'm curious to know how long
(28:30):
that period talking and, and what you, you know, the, the,
the mind dropped, as you said, in terms of I can't do this, I
can't do this good. What was the kind of the
catalyst you reckon to bring youback up to say I can contribute
and I can be a voice and I can be an advocate and life's OK.
The Catalyst, very good question.
So, you know, I had all the tools that I think I I needed to
(28:54):
get to get on top of it in termsof mentally and even physically.
So I had access to the best physios, you know, in sports
science, people from the Institute of Sport.
I had a great, you know, counsellor.
I had, you know, support, a verysupportive partner, family,
friends. But the thing that was lacking
(29:16):
was my own personal motivation. And it was at a time where I was
kind of sabotage, sabotaging my own rehabilitation.
And in not only, you know, I wasdoing some exercise or swimming,
but I wasn't really eating well.I wasn't resting enough.
(29:39):
It was covered. I was drinking too much.
I was, you know, so I was. Yeah.
It was a point where my parents and my partner and, and my
sister and couple other friends said, it's really up to you.
Like you have to, you have to make these changes in your life
(30:00):
bit by bit to, you know, to create a, a new norm.
And, and some people were prettyblunt.
They said, look at, you know, look what you've been able to
create with your SIM schools andyou know, you've got beautiful
kids and supporting family and so many people now are kind of
following you in terms of your journey and, and lifeblood.
(30:24):
Actually, when they reached out to me to be the ambassador for,
for plasma and blood donation was, you know, I get emotional
about talking about it because it was, it came at a very, very
critical time in my mental health journey where I needed
something to give me purpose And, you know, to be a
(30:44):
spokesperson, to be publicly, you know, a leader in a, in a,
in a, in a, in a very small community, kind of, you know,
gave me that sort of motivation to, to change and try and lead
by example. So, you know, my, the biggest
changes had that have happened really, because my, my condition
(31:05):
hasn't really sort of moved for a few years now, have been
lifestyle changes. And with those lifestyle
changes, my mental health is just, you know, I, I look at how
I am now compared to maybe thosefirst two or three years.
It's chalk, chalk and cheese. I can't even actually almost
(31:26):
comprehend it. You know, I, I, I was a recluse.
I wouldn't go out. You know, I was, yeah, sometimes
wouldn't even get out of bed. You know, exercise was foreign
to me. I didn't want to get in the
pool, you know, I I hung up on alot of friends that were calling
and reaching out. And I think it's until the point
(31:47):
that you myself are ready to to take that action for, for
change. It doesn't really matter.
So it was. Yeah, I I guess that was the
defying moment where I realised that it was in my control, no
one else's. It's very powerful.
(32:09):
I'm also curious to know about the, the leaps.
You know, you talked about the leap from where you were to
where you are now. And looking back, it's chalk and
cheese. Those leaps, were they 1% leaps?
Or did you take a giant leap saying I'm not, I'm not gonna
drink alcohol anymore? Or is it more like, let's reduce
the intake into my mouth of whatI'm eating slightly, slightly,
slightly? Or was it less a, a blanket,
like, right. I'm starting from scratch and
(32:30):
I'm doing this, I'm doing that. It, it started for me, you know,
I was very, I think that's when,once I made that clear sort of
decision in my head that I was going to try and improve myself.
And, and probably, you know, starting with just completely
(32:53):
owning my mental aspect and devoting myself to, to being
strict with my counsellor and, and working on, on that grief
process and then really identifying what I can do, what
I can control. And, you know, alcohol was one
of them. My food intake was another.
(33:13):
Going back to those things that are that were very natural to me
in, in creating a routine movement as well.
You know, I, I get so much pleasure from swimming, from
exercising, swimming in the ocean, being outdoors and, you
know, implementing these things back into my life that I never
(33:34):
used to think about that way. I would do them because I know
that made me feel good. But I, you know, for, you know,
one reason. Well, we know why I did it, but,
you know, they disappeared. And even though I had all these
tools, I wasn't using them. So it was for me.
It happened quickly, but it was definitely one step at a time.
(33:56):
And then reconnecting with thosepeople that reached out, how,
how was that experience? Was it a bit cathartic
sometimes? You know, you know, sometimes
people say or you, you hear it all the time when people say the
my illness or this, this trauma or whatever has happened to them
(34:17):
as has been the best thing that's ever happened to them in
their life. And I whenever I used to hear
that, I used to go there as if that that is really the reality.
Why would you wish something like this to happen to you where
it is so hard to deal with? But I'm actually one of those
people now to say that from my condition and my circumstance
(34:41):
and the trauma and the the toughtimes, I, you know, there's so
many things that have turned to a very strong positive in my
life. My connection with my kids is
100 times stronger. I've reconnected with a lot of
friends that, you know, Daniel Kowalski and Ian Thorpe and
(35:04):
Grant Hackett and Simon Cowley, Adam Pine, Brett Hawk.
I mean, I, you know, Chris Fiedler, everyone, you know,
like I've all my management, like, you know, people that have
just reached out and have been there all the time.
I'd stay with Daniel. Every time I go back to Sydney
for my treatment, I, you know, Icatch up with Thorpe directly
(35:28):
and I've got, you know, I felt like connections that probably
were neglected for for years, I think are stronger now.
You know, I'm very fortunate that I've also have a partner
that basically devoted herself to helping me get better.
And that is, yeah, that is that is very rare.
(35:52):
And I feel indebted to for the rest of my life because now
it's, you know, I'm better and it's time for her to kind of now
pursue her, you know, her interests and her her career.
But definitely, you know, there's some things that, you
(36:12):
know, and now I feel like I'm inthis area of kind of service
where I'm, you know, been being able to spread a message where
things, you know, you can tell people that, yeah, things can
get really bad. We will in our lifetime
experience something that is notideal if it's health or if it's
financial or personal or whatever it might be.
(36:34):
But there is a way out of it. And and everyone, you know,
people might have different different recipe to get out of
that that hole. But it is there, there is a
there is a light at the end of that tunnel.
So, yeah, I think being now I look at it and in a sense where
(36:55):
with the foundation, with Lifeblood, with a lot of, even
with Climp Swim, it's, it's moreof an AI feel like my role is in
service and providing, say with Climp Swim, I'm providing
knowledge to, to the, to the grassroots of the sport with
the, you know, I guess raising awareness about blood and plasma
(37:16):
donation with Lifeblood and withthe foundation and now obviously
trying to help any future or current sufferers with CIDP.
So the tide in, in my life has kind of changed.
Whereas before I think it was, and probably a tough one to
swallow being a, being a sprinter, there was a lot of
(37:37):
ego, you know, there was a lot of bravado And, and I, you know,
the moment I dropped that ego about what people are going to
think, how I'm going to look, you know, it's, it's kind of
irrelevant because if anything, maybe I think my personal equity
as a person has probably grown because of what I've been able
to do. So.
(37:59):
And it's, it's kind of, it's really fulfilling to, to be able
to have so many people open up to me about their journeys and
not necessarily wanting help, but to feel comfortable enough
to open up. And it I just felt like I had to
start a foundation where we can create a community that can
(38:21):
share these kind of their stories.
And hopefully one day we, you know, we can raise enough money
to to fund trials and who knows when they find a cure for this
condition. Yeah.
I want to touch on that for a second.
The CIDP, correct me if I'm wrong in terms of the
pronunciation, chronic inflammatory demyelinating
polyneuropathy and thank you. Yeah.
(38:44):
And you mentioned treatment there and you mentioned you're
on the blood thing. Do you want to talk about the
treatment and then the, the connection I suppose to the
treatment and and why that's important?
Yeah, absolutely. So with CIDP, it's why it's it,
it is rare. So like I said, 2, two to three
and 100,000, so similar to M andDM and D obviously through Neil
(39:06):
Danaher and his actions and, andthe big freeze and fight M&D,
they've, they've done such a great job in raising awareness,
funding trials and, and I've almost would love to emulate
kind of what they've been able to achieve.
But with CRDP, it is every, every patient, I guess, has a
(39:31):
completely different journey. And some people it's it's almost
like a brother or a sister to GBS, which is an aggressive and
acute version of CRDP. Is that right?
Yeah, correct. And, and, and a lot of people
make a full recovery out of thatwith, with CRDP, it's, it's
(39:51):
there kind of forever and it's, you know, most probably 3rd 30%
of people can make a recovery. 30 people, 30% of people kind of
stay stagnant like I am and the other 30 you know, have a pretty
steep decline and end up in a wheelchair etcetera.
So, and there is. You know, no one's treatment and
(40:15):
no one's journey is the same. Whereas sometimes with a lot of
other conditions, if it's canceror it's, there are certain
protocols that have almost repeated and people know they
work. And whereas with this, there
hasn't really been enough case studies there.
We, we don't have, you know, from even physiotherapy
protocols how to, what's the best way to, to kind of tackle,
(40:39):
you know, physiotherapy and froma nutritional standpoint, there
hasn't really been a lot done inthat.
So just discovering, yeah, just obviously getting more data
talking. We've got some medical research
people that it will obviously try and work with the
practitioners all around the country and start collating as
(41:03):
much information as we can. And, and we do, we've already
have a pretty substantial patient handbook that hopefully
will clarify a lot of these kindof mysteries that, that come
with having the, this, this disorder that.
And that's probably one of the things that is the hardest thing
to deal with is the uncertainty where you're gonna end up.
(41:24):
You know, like probably the, that's why, you know, it
probably hit me really hard at the beginning because I could
have been in that 30% of people that end up in the wheelchair,
which again, at the time felt completely daunting and
destroying. But I've, you know, like I, you
know, I've, I've met some amazing people that have been
(41:45):
much worse than I, I am right now and still have a very
positive impact on the community.
So yeah, I, I guess the treatments vary to answer your
question from IVIG, which is plasma derived medication and
there's plasma exchange as well,which a lot of people use
steroid treatments. There is a lot of different kind
(42:08):
of immune suppressant medicationas well.
So, and now there is a little bit of, I guess research and
exploration with, with stem cellkind of treatment as well, which
is still inconclusive, but that's where things are heading.
So I guess there isn't, there isn't any treatment that's it's
(42:30):
a cure. It's the treatments are more to
reduce symptoms and improve quality of life.
So, and that's the same thing what we'd like to do with the
foundation, provide services from say Podiatry to
physiotherapy or give you know, people guidance in certain
(42:51):
areas. So and also funding if, if
required. So it is, yeah.
I mean, it's the, it's the gamutof it.
It's it, it is very daunting. And then we'd like to sort of
make streamline that process foreveryone experiencing it.
And in terms of the treatment, are you, can you access the
treatment reasonably, efficiently or is it sort of in
(43:14):
obscure places that you have to travel to etcetera?
Well, I'm very fortunate and in Australia I think we're very,
very lucky and blessed that IVIGis, is, is subsidised and it's
obviously through, through the Red Cross and it's free of
charge. So I'll fly back and have my
(43:35):
treatment every six weeks, typically at RPA at the infusion
centre. And the staff, you know, they've
known them for over six years, they're amazing.
But I have also treatments at Royal Melbourne and had them at
Royal Perth. So there is a lot of flexibility
as well in terms of why you haveyour treatments.
But it is, yeah, it's not the accessibility to it is not, not
(43:59):
the issue. I guess it's progressing in
progressing the types of treatments and there might be
something happening in, in otherautoimmune conditions or other
trials that might eventually benefit us as well.
And we're very much at an infancy stage of of this kind of
(44:21):
of this journey. So hopefully we can discover
some some great news or development in in the near
future. Yeah, with the establishment of
the foundation at its infancy, there's a big, you know, you can
make a big impact, by the way, like you know, and obviously you
want to make a big impact. And, and we're on this podcast,
which is public. I want you to shout out to
(44:41):
someone in that treatment in thehospital, if they're listening
to maybe to say thank you. I'd have to thank my
neurologist, Judy Spears at RPA.She's, she was the 1 I actually
moved from Melbourne to Sydney to see her and she's been there
(45:02):
the whole, the whole way and a very, a very sort of
intelligent, smart woman that, that is, you know, the leading
kind of neurologist in that space.
So, but every like it's even the, all the nurses at the
infusion centres. I, I see how hard they're
working. They're constantly walking
(45:23):
around, you know, treating patients and I just see the, you
know, the hours they're putting in.
And it's not, not just my, my doctors, but it's, it's everyone
that is, is part of these hospitals systems that it, you
know, I just, until I was put inthat situation, I didn't
(45:45):
appreciate how hard and how muchwe rely on these, on these
services. And hopefully with Lifeblood,
we're looking at actually utilising some of the donor
centres as infusion centres as well.
That's something the foundation and Lifeblood are working with.
Potentially in the next sort of 12 months we can for somewhat
(46:06):
simple infusions like my own, wecan offload the hospital system
and do it through a through a blood donor centre.
So there's a lot of great thingsthat we can do in the future.
Mate as you've got into your your mid 40s, I'm going to say
mid 40s not mid to late 40s and I'm turning 44, mid 40s, mid 40s
(46:28):
and dealing with CIDP. Have you become more grateful
yourself? Oh absolutely, I've become more.
My perspective on life has changed and I'm very grateful
that I have, you know, I have amazing people in my life and
(46:49):
and I've realised, I think I touched on earlier that, you
know, we I didn't appreciate howimportant our connection is in
in with with our loved ones. And I think a lot of the time I
prided myself on being able to do things on my own and
succeeding on on my own or having a company that I owned,
(47:11):
et cetera. But I think it's now I valued
probably doing a value kind of quality over quantity.
You know, it's, and that that comes in all aspects of life,
from material things to time, even with, you know, with my
family or friends. So it's yeah, it's been, it's
(47:35):
been transformative. And, and I, you know, I, I, and
it's funny, I don't get FOMO anymore.
I, I, I sort of, I'd leave parties early.
I, you know, I don't do a lot ofthings that I used to do.
I mean, I used to love surfing, just paddling out at sunrise and
waiting for the sun to pop up and catching that first wave.
(47:58):
I can now I can still do that, but I do it on a paddle board
and you know, but it's, I used to have all these so much fun
about the life, my previous life, but now I I don't have
that. And I've been able to look at
this beautiful life that I have with beautiful people and being
able to even talk to you today and you know, share my story.
(48:20):
And hopefully this will might have an impact on somebody
listening out there that there is there isn't another side and
you can make a difference in personally, but there is always
someone around you to to help you as well.
Michael, thank you. Thank you for that and thank you
for sharing that. And, and hopefully there is some
people that are listening that can take that advice.
(48:40):
And part of the reason I do the podcast is to talk to people
like yourself that can offer help and advice and tips and,
and not even just advice, but more so about experiences.
In most podcasts that I do, I, Iask a couple of questions.
One is your scoreboard moment, which is a moment in your life
which is very vivid and very clear.
And from that direction on, things have changed.
We may have touched on it already, Apologies if we have,
(49:03):
but your school board moment, Michael?
We touched on it briefly was wasthe World Championships in
Perth. It was when I guess I I was able
to reach the pinnacle of my sport.
After Mark Spitz, I was the nextperson to ever win 7 medals at a
major competition and four of them gold and becoming a world
(49:28):
champion in Perth in front of a home crowd in front of my
parents. That was.
I still remember what I rememberactually the vivid moment, which
is you'll probably find amusing is getting home after the, the
closing kind of little ceremony that we had at, at Challenge
Stadium. And I was awarded swimmer of the
(49:51):
meet and putting the trophy down.
And everyone by that stage had gone the bed.
And there was a team that that team management and team and my
coach was still there. And I was able to order a steak.
And I was just having after thiscrazy week of, you know, media
and swings and adulation and crowds, there was this, there
(50:13):
was no one else in the restaurant.
There was maybe 3 or 4 people just from the Australian swim
team and it was just me in eating a steak with a trophy
next to it and it was kind of a nice moment of reflection.
So yeah, that that's for me. That was, I remember, that's
(50:34):
weird. I remember almost remember
cutting into that steak. And did someone plonk a bottle I
read next to it? Not at that stage.
Not at that stage, no. I think we're still under team
bylaws, but. That's a great scoreboard
moment, by the way. I love this.
That that, that inner piece of like, I've done it and now I'm
(50:57):
going to enjoy a steak. How good's that?
Simple. Simple, but effective.
Exactly, exactly. And I think I might have crept
into a few Reds after that. And the other question I ask is,
is the your all time favourite sporting moment which can
include yourself? But it's also I'm curious to
know as a spectator as well. It would.
(51:19):
It would have to be the one withmy two roomies and and Ian
Thorpe and Grant Hackett. It was Athens 2004, the 200
freestyle final, where it was regarded as the race of the
century to determine who was theGOAT in the sport of swimming.
(51:39):
And Michael Phelps had very publicly kind of announced that
he wanted to once and for all, you know, I guess, you know,
stamped his authority in in freestyle and and take on take
on the grading. Ian Thorpe.
Thorpe had obviously lost to 200freestyle in Sydney and he was
(51:59):
racing Peter Van and Hoogenbad, who was also in that final hacky
was swimming incredibly well. It it was a stacked field.
And that was kind of the the yeah, the head to head match
that or match the race that I remember watching.
And to see in kind of the way hewas able to control that race
(52:26):
and dominate and and prove that he was the greatest of all time
at that moment was was just sensational.
And to then obviously go back and and celebrate back in back
in the village with with those two guys was, you know, hacky
obviously winning the 1500 on the last night was yeah, I've
(52:52):
I've been very fortunate that I've been is sharing rooms with
Australia's greatest. So I've had, you know, I've had
memories of another vivid momentof, you know, last day of the
Olympics in Sydney where, you know, we come back from the
medley relay. And by that we were getting
(53:14):
little boxing Kangaroos and we put them under the bed and we
looked under the bed and we had it between Thorpe and myself and
Hacky, I think we had about 13 of them.
So. So that was A and yeah, that was
pretty funny moment. What a great all time favourite
sporting moment, Michael. I've got one, one final question
(53:36):
before we we finish. There's a we're living in 2025.
There's maybe a 15 year old out there that that wants to be an
Olympic swimmer, that wants to be a high performing athlete.
What's some advice that you can give them now, looking back now
living in 2025? Look, I, I, I, you know, I've
(53:56):
been very fortunate that I, I've, you know, going back into
swimming and becoming a coach since, since COVID, I've been
able to look at the sport in a different way.
And I'm coaching teenagers. I think sport can teach you a
(54:16):
lot of amazing life lessons. And and you know, I've witnessed
people in the sport, Brett Hawke, for example, who only
only made his his Olympic debut at the age of 25 S for those
teenagers that are 14/15/16 thatare struggling with should I
(54:40):
continue? Should I you know, it's the
easiest thing is the easiest road to take is to quit, to
stop. But if I think from you know,
the, I would say for anyone out there, if it's it's you have to
persevere, be patient because your time will come and you're
giving yourself the the option of more choice.
(55:03):
Because if you're, it may swimming may not lead you in to
the Olympic final, but it might lead you to being a really
employable person, or it might lead you to a different career.
But it whatever it is, it developed traits that people
value. And, and I think, you know, for
(55:25):
me, for such a long time, swimming wasn't about Olympic
gold medals and world records. It was about the people around
me and the people that would support me.
And so I, you know, even my nephew who's going through, I
wouldn't say top three breaststroker in the country at
the age of 14 and is struggling with, you know, progression at
(55:49):
times. And it's about, you know, just
persevering, being patient, trusting the people that are in
your life, in your coaches and even that immediate community.
So yeah, I think, I think perseverance and sport is can
can lead to a lot of great things I think.
(56:10):
Michael Clem, thank you so much for being on school board the
podcast today and congratulations what you've
achieved with your foundation, your stream school and sharing
your story of living with CIDP and sharing a story about your,
your childhood and, and, and allthe things that have come with
it to be who you are today and the identity that you are today.
It's been a absolute pleasure having a chat and and really
look forward to following your progress and helping the
(56:32):
foundation where I can and and continuing to keep in touch.
Yeah, Thank you, Chris. And yeah, thank you for the
opportunity to to share with thethe with the listeners what I
guess I've been through. But it you know that even the
opportunity to be able to share the fact that the foundation is
is out there in its presence. So if if you know anyone that
(56:54):
needs any help, there is the we have support on on our platform.
So make sure you head and and and check it out.
It's it's the clinfoundation.orgdot AU.
Fantastic. And I'll put that in that that
link in all the all the podcastsand the show notes etcetera, so
people can can have a look at it.
And thanks again, Michael. No worries, thanks.
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