Episode 86: Simon Black on Consistency, Clarity & Crafting a Champion Mindset

In Episode 86 of Scoreboard, Chris Titley sits down with AFL Hall of Famer Simon Black to unpack what made the Brisbane Lions’ golden era tick—and the habits that helped him become one of the game’s most consistent performers.

Simon reflects on his early days as a West Coast supporter, the culture under Leigh Matthews, and what it meant to train with purpose every single session.

He opens up about self-critique, visualisation, and how to focus when the stakes are high and the margins are tight.

From Brownlow medals to Norm Smith moments, from premierships to post-career purpose, Simon shares what high performance really looks like—on and off the field.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, it's Chris Titley here. And on today's episode of School
Board I'm joined by Simon Black in person and what is a
beautiful Brisbane winter's morning.
Simon, welcome to School Board. Thanks Chris.
Great to be with you mate, mate.We're sitting here mid June.
What are we on the 17th of June?Tuesday, the 17th of June.
How's your Tuesday started? Yeah, it's been good.
Yeah, I did with exercise this morning, got the kids off to off

(00:21):
to school, the normal course. We got three kids and all the
sports activities and that didn't have the early morning
training session for them today.So I got a bit of a sleep in,
which is nice. So it's been good.
And mate 2025, what's what's on the lake up to?
Yeah, well chasing those three kids around a lot with all their
the other age 1311 and seven. So yeah, traffic plenty going

(00:42):
on, but yeah, that a bit of yeahbit of work stuff.
A couple of different things I'mdoing for work at the moment.
I'm helping a friend with a the business and doing the
commentary with Triple M for theLions and Galco Suns home games.
Excellent mate. So your relationship with footy,
I'm I'm curious to know how that's changed over time from a
junior to a player to a coach toa commentator.

(01:05):
Yeah, look, it's, I mean, I'm coaching the the mighty Main
under Elevens. Going so far, they've been
halfway through the season. Yeah, they're going OK.
They're going pretty well. Yeah, it's, it's been a bit of
daddy daycare with them all and babysitting, but largely they're
they're into it. But now they're going well, It's
it's been great. I've enjoyed the challenge of my

(01:26):
wife said to me, she said she's gonna have to find some patience
and tolerance for, for this hardshow.
I said, yeah, you're bloody right, I am.
And six weeks in, she's she's spot on.
Sorry, the 11th is a good age because it's not that grading
yet and they're all kind of having a bit of fun and there's
is there scoring. There's yeah, there's a
scoreboard, but we don't have a ladder and there's.
No final. So yeah, it is.
It's pretty relaxed. It's good.

(01:47):
Yeah. Then the next year, the
thirteens, they get into the heavy, the heavy grading.
It seems my son's involved in the moment.
So the divisions and all this sort of stuff and the.
The sheep stations start to begin, but don't worry the
elevens, they all know that. Well, there's a scoreboard also.
Yeah, they, they, yeah, at the end of the game we won or we
lost, you know. Yeah, yeah, they know that.
So you enjoying coaching footy and and watching footy and

(02:07):
commentating on footy? Yeah, I, I am, I just when I
retired from the lines full timefor three years at the club and
you've got a bit of a passion for that there.
And then I, I, I got asked, put my name to a football Academy
programme and football and education programme.
So that took me away from from coaching.
So I've been doing bits and pieces, you know, the last few

(02:28):
years since, since I retired really.
But yeah, I, I, I really enjoy the, the coaching.
I'm not sure whether I want to get it back into a full time,
but you know, helping my my kidsand and their mates, it's it's a
lot of fun. Those three years post
retirement probably go down as not great years for the Lions.
How, how, how did you go about managing all that and, and
seeing their success a decade later and feeling a connection

(02:50):
to the club? Yeah, I was great.
You know, I I was, as you say, there through a pretty difficult
phase for the footy club and it and that were on their knees
really. It was in the crisis the last
year of the of Leopard's coaching tenure at the club.
So what Chris Fagan's come in and been able to do and, and,
and develop. And I guess you look at that
premiership side from last year and the amount of guys that have

(03:12):
have come on the come across to the club on the back and
probably wanted to be a part of the environment that Fags has
created is is a great testament to him and he's a great man.
I was fortunate to be a part of the the coach selection panel
when when we look for a new coach.
And it was a guy as soon as he walked in the room and I'd never
met him before, but within 5 or 10 minutes I was almost like, I

(03:34):
don't care if this bloke knows nothing about the game of footy
or he's, he's exactly what we need right now.
And if so had, how's that? I guess everyone can talk about
what's their strengths here as acoach, building relationships
and so forth. And with him, it was just
another level of, I guess of authenticity about him.
And through storytelling you canjust get a real genuine sense if

(03:55):
it was, it was real and just a great guy and, and he would
bring the club together and the club was at their knees, on
their knees as I said. So it needed someone to bring
Harmony and uni to the place andhe did.
He's done a wonderful job. In terms of similarity to to Lee
Matthews, did you see a bit of Lee in Chris Fagan or vice versa
or completely different? A lot different, yeah, a lot

(04:18):
different. I mean, Fags is in
relationships. Building is a great strength.
And I think the world, the game's changed and the world's
changed as in the last 20 years from from when Lee was coaching.
So you've got to be real, you know, that's got to be a great
strength of yours to be able to develop relationships,
particularly in Brisbane with 8%of your playlist is from
Interstate. And if you don't have a great
culture and, and you're not tired, the players, players will

(04:39):
piss off back to the home states.
So you've got to have a real, yeah, a real great environment
people want to be around and, and that's Chris Fagan's great
strength for mine. Yeah.
And you look at the the coach and the the playing group that
won the premiership last year and you take it back to your
playing group that won three premierships and four grand
finals in a row. A lot of similarities in terms

(05:01):
of the experience versus the youth and the coach and the club
where it was. Yeah, there, there is.
No, I mean the Lions, they were knocking on the door for a few
years and you know, we back in area probably we had a couple of
years of finals before we won, won the first flag, didn't we?
But. 99 You're the prelim. Yeah, and and made the finals
the 2nd 2000 as well. But yeah, they, they, they had

(05:23):
the experience and it would havebeen a real disaster, if you
like, if if they weren't able towin a flag during this, this era
that they've had. So that's been really heartening
and I guess gratifying for the club to be able to.
Yeah, we've won one. And, and based on that
experience I've got now they're sitting here where we mid June
and the third on the ladder, probably not the best patch at
the moment the last month, but you know, they're, they're

(05:45):
they're in reasonable shape to give it another crack the next
two or three years. So it's exciting.
But yeah, there, there are similarities and you know, we
we're starting to draw some comparisons.
And so we'll just win 2 in a rowfirst and we'll start talking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true. And and going to to do you go
down to Melbourne in in 24 Was the day special for you?

(06:06):
Yeah, it was brilliant. Yeah, I was I was a bit of a
fanboy there with I was sat nextto Jonathan Brown at the game
and yeah, we'll cheer in as loudas anyone.
We're pumped and and we've both seen you know from from O4 when
we we made the grand final and lost the the club fell off the
Cliff there. Gosh, pretty much 15 years and a
lot of it was shooting ourselvesin the foot as a club from the
way it was run, the administration decisions that we

(06:28):
made and for for various reasons.
So I was, I was a long way back and that's why I was so, so
great to see the boys in the club get there finally last year
after 5 or 6 years. We've been a good side but not a
great team. Obviously 23 they, they just
lost by less than the goal. So they were thereabouts, right,
Really close. But it was unreal and great for

(06:48):
footy in Queensland. The growth of the game up here
in of Aussie Rules in Queenslandhas been phenomenal the last
last few years and, and this group's obviously done a great
job to to help with that. When you first started and you
came to to Brisbane, how would you describe AFL in the in the,
I suppose of the the competitionof footy?
We were the back box, yeah, certainly the black back box.

(07:09):
And you know, I, I turned up in 98 and it was the second year of
the merge with with the Bears and we came last.
We won the wooden spoon. And I mean more about the club,
but we were really dysfunctionaland and we got what we deserved,
I feel as as a as a footy club at that time.
And the coach got sacked midway through the year.

(07:30):
And then Lee Matthews turned up into the end of 98 and things
turned pretty quickly. But yeah, it was, it was, you
know, the game's come such a long way.
And probably when we had that 01to 04 period, you know, to get
the Bronx off the Backpage of the paper and, you know, asked
to lead the Channel 9 news and all that stuff was, was really

(07:50):
cool, really special. We had the corporate boxes all
full at the Gabba was unreal. And I guess that's what we're
probably most proud of, that playing group to help really
grow the game and get some real buzz and energy about Ausreal's
footy in in Brisbane. Going back to 98, you you, you
were a later draught pick and you played your first game.
You remember your first game pretty clearly.

(08:11):
Yeah, I do. Yeah, I was.
I thought I was going to get snapped in half.
I was about 75 kilos and just thinking for.
Sure, we're out in the logs, I think it was.
Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah, Yep.
Yeah, it was. We got belted, but it was my
first. Every game actually for the
Lions was in South Africa in a pre season game in Cape Town
against. The global game, AFL.

(08:32):
Yeah, the global game. Who would have thought?
What league's trying to do now in Vegas?
That's right. It was, yeah, it was the AFL had
a crack at it for a few years over at in Cape Town in South
Africa. But it's amazing athletes.
But we went to some of these shanty towns near the airport
and, and, and did these promotional sort of clinics and
things, which is was wonderful. But anyway, yeah, first real

(08:53):
game was against the Bulldogs and it was a tough, the start of
a tough year. And you grew up in Mackay?
No, you're born in Mackay. Born in Mount Isa Van.
Isa, sorry, born in Mount Isa and then went to Perth and did
you fall in love with footy whenyou were in Perth?
Yeah, but mum was a from Fremantle and, and dad was a
Kiwi and I'm not sure why. I do know what they're doing in

(09:14):
Mount Isa. Dad had like a good old fruit
juice franchise or something up there in the late 70s and I
popped out in Mount Isa and shortly after we we moved back
to back to WA. And yeah, I played rugby union
before I played Aussie Rules, being a dad, being a Kiwi.
But my mates at school got theirtheir teeth and their nails and

(09:35):
to me to come play Aussie Rules and fell in love with the game
pretty early on as a young fella.
And always aspired to play AFL footy, but always sort of
thought they were, they were freaks on TV, big, strong,
lastly blokes, super talented that we're going to be beyond
anything I was ever capable of achieving.
So for me it was, I was in awe, yeah, But grew and got an

(09:57):
opportunity loaded down the track.
When did you realise that you were good at footy, I mean?
I was you as a kid, you know, you're handy, but how good's
good, you know, I guess Yeah, when I'm at the 18 state side,
so at. A state level you're like, OK,
it's verified now that there's I'm in the state team, right?

(10:17):
Yeah, at 18, is that who? You said at 18, yeah.
So not anywhere before that. Well, I mean, I did.
I didn't play sport for 12 or 18months when I was 1617.
I had contracted Schumer's disease in my spine, which is a,
a lifelong thing. It's where your vertebrae and
your and your spine threaded adolescents don't form quite as
they should. So it causes me in throughout my

(10:40):
playing days, causing a lot of grief and a lot of physio and on
the physio table a lot and a lotof strength training things.
But when I was 1617, you know, when I first contracted it, it
was very, very painful and I could just couldn't play sport
for 14 months and been a hyper energetic kid.
It was, you know, and pretty frustrating.
And some mates were making the 16 state team and I thought my,

(11:03):
my fully opportunity had sort ofpassed.
And, and so when I got healthy, when I was just shy of 18, I had
a window of just really trying to lock in and, and my goal was
to make the 18 state team and I hired a Sprint coach.
And then I started going to the gym and really tried to trying
like I'd never trained before, Iguess.
And, and yeah, lucky to make thestate team and had a reasonable

(11:25):
carnival, the national carnival.And, and then my name would
start getting bandied around to be a draught prospect.
But before that that that wasn'tthe case.
What was the drive to to to makethat team?
Was it verification that you loved footing, you wanted to
play at the highest level? It was like, or was just like a
little internal teenage challenge to go actually, I'll
just prove these people wrong. Yeah, probably a bit of both, I

(11:45):
reckon, Chris. I mean, I was always super
competitive as a kid, did a little middle distance running
throughout my teenage years and.Oh, I read a little bit about
that. Was it 800 or?
Yeah, 1815 to run, yeah, and that.
Works well for AFL players, right?
Yeah, brilliant for 40, isn't it?
Yeah, ideal for 40. So that was a great foundation
that I didn't really, I just enjoyed doing it.

(12:05):
But yeah, so I forgot the question.
About the drive to make the the 18 team, the 18 team, you've
come back from injury, you're like OK, I want to make this
team because of. Yeah, I was just.
I was just driven when I sat on the sidelines for the, the total
rating months, I guess it, it, it burned something inside me
that I, I wanted to, you know, Iwas missing out for one, seeing

(12:28):
my friends play a game I loved. And then, and two, I just, I'd
seen them make state teams and again, I was missing out.
And so I I just loved the fun offooty and, and, and so when I
got healthy, I was just really super driven to to make that
state team and, and give myself a crack at.
I didn't want to be 50 and have regrets.
I hadn't tried hard enough. And it was a a burning, a

(12:50):
burning thing inside me that that drove that.
Yeah, part of. Me the the idea of becoming a
professional AFL player was ingrained into at a young age or
around that sort of 15161718 going I want to be that person
on TV. Yeah, I, I, I guess it was, I
mean, I, I always, like I said, I never felt like I'd be good
enough. I always felt that I was super
talented. I watched the I was a big West

(13:11):
Coast Eagles fan and and then the 90s they were flying the
Eagles and you know they were they were my heroes.
And I think in in 94 yeah, when I had my back issue.
I couldn't play sport for that year as I said, and dad took me
to the end of the grand final and and the Eagles were playing
Geelong in the grand final and that's very kind of him.
But that going along. And I remember standing feel

(13:32):
like yesterday standing at the fence.
He's got took a photo of me and I remember leaning back at at
him saying tears would be be dreaming to play here one day.
Dad and yeah, and that was really something that we framed
that up and it was, it was something we had in the house
and it was, it always kind of helped drive me, I guess from
there. How old were you when you
entered the GF then? You said. 15. 15 yeah.

(13:54):
And what was it about that day? I took my son to the Collingwood
game in 23. It was just a bucket list thing
to do. Just incredible.
The vibe the the whole week and the whole day in terms of the
activities and and the fanfare, etcetera.
What was was? What do you remember about that
day? And you're 15.
Yeah, it's it's a whole lot of energy, isn't it?

(14:15):
And it's changed a lot from now to then as well.
But yeah, just the the scale, the size, the MCGI couldn't
believe that big the the joint was.
Yeah, it's like wow. And just the the this, the
excitement, the build up and allthe fans for each team are
obviously walking into the ground and the energy, yeah, the
excitement was was mind blowing.And I was bit over over all by

(14:40):
and yeah, but it did it. It was just exciting.
And then when you got picked as a a Brisbane Lion player, but
growing up watching the West Coast Eagles, how did that feel
for a bit? Yeah, I'm here for my first
year. I got to play against the Eagles
and I'm playing against Chris Main, Warren and Peter Matira,
and these guys are my heroes. Yeah, that was that was wild.
Yeah, that was what I actually busted my, my, my, my finger

(15:01):
that night pretty good. I had to get an operation that
after that. But yeah, that was, that was a
surreal moment where you're justlike, wow, I can't believe I've
got the footy and there's Peter Material trying to tackle me and
you know, like. Literally watching them as a
teenager at the GE game. One day I might make it here and
play them. And now you're playing them and
and they don't know who you are,but you know who they are.

(15:21):
Yeah, that's right. I was like, I was a super fan of
them. So it was, it was, it was really
bizarre. Could I?
Could I, Peter. Yeah.
Yeah, we we autograph book in mysock and ask him after the game
for an autograph. But yeah, it was pretty bizarre.
But you got to get through that,don't you?
Got to, you got to get your competitive juices going and,
and feel like you belong out there.
So I was pretty keen to do that too.

(15:42):
Going back to to to 98 your first year, then 99 when Lee
came, you want to talk about that year you made the prelim
you you, you got belted in the in the prelim of the G in 99.
But then that foundation group that that playing group and that
coach leading into the 2000 season, what you're thinking in
that 2000 and 2001 season, sorryas well.

(16:02):
Yeah, from, well, from 98 when we came last to, to, to the 99
season. It's amazing.
It was, it was a best lesson foran 8899 year old around the
importance of quality leadershipfrom a coaching group to the
player leadership group. And you know, I often say the,
the, the game that the player leadership group, I think feels
almost more important than the coaching, the cage coach,

(16:23):
because it's a, it's a player's game and they're the conduit
between the, the coach, the vision centre, if you like, and
the masses of the players, the playing group.
And, and if they don't set the standard behaviourally on off
the field, they're not driving. What we're about is a, you know,
a standards behaviour wise, thenthe place falls apart.
And things changed pretty quickly after Lee got got in.

(16:44):
And I remember his first ever speech to us.
We had a lot of injuries in 98. And that's why some of us
younger guys probably got an opportunity before I was ready.
But but he came in, he said, boys, I've got a three year
contract. Even in the auditorium there's,
I mean lots of blokes painting crutches after operations and
things. And he said I've got a three
year contract. I'll, I reckon I'll be here in
three years, but I'm not sure how many you guys will be here.
But he said, make no mistake, I'll judge you from what I see

(17:09):
going forward. I've done my bit of
reconnaissance and due diligencewhatever to understand where the
club's AT and I've heard some things.
But I'm not going to judge any of you on what I've heard.
It'd be what I see going forward.
And I think that this gave everyone a great level of
comfort that from here we're going to be judged on what how
we how we behave, which was, which was exactly what the place

(17:29):
needed. And, and we went from last to a
premier final in our first year,took another couple of years to
win our first flag. And that oh, 2001 season, the
year of our first flag, we, we had a really poor first two or
three months of the season and we had a game down in Geelong.
We speak about it a lot. I reckon a lot of organisations,
successful ones, have a watershed moment and this was

(17:50):
our watershed moment. We got belted badly.
We might have been two or three wins and six or seven losses.
Of this season to the 24 start of the season, yeah.
Yeah, to the Lions last year, yeah.
And Lee just he went through theindividuals when the team and he
he basically remember the one thing he he sort of said, he
said was unless you submit yourself to the team, play your

(18:11):
role for the for the team. Lee's whole coaching philosophy
was know your role except your role, perform your role.
And and he said we've got forwards that are only concerned
about kicking a goal. There's no defensive bone in
your body. We've got unaccountable
midfielders that similar got no accountability with their direct
opponent and we've got defendersthat won't defend first.
He said. I don't know how good you boys
can be, but until you buy into team defence, you got to be shit

(18:35):
practically, you're not going tofulfil your capability.
And from then we we things I reckon change really quickly in
that the player leadership groupstarted to drive things more
training than they'd previously done.
And and, and, and we bought intothe hardest part of the game,
which is getting the ball back from the opposition, which is
defence. And, and that was our real
mindset going into games and ourfocus and, and, and the shift of

(18:58):
how things changed really quickly.
We lost the week later who were against the Crows, well less
than the goal. Good team at the time.
Then we played up came up against Esther bombers, who were
reigning premiers and lost once in 12 months prior like they
were flying. And it was a game that Lee
Matthews came out of the meetingand said if it bleeds, you can
kill it from the movie Predator talking in reference to the to

(19:21):
the Bombers. And we beat them and we went on
a 16 game winning streak to win our first flag.
And I want to look back that Carlton game.
We were in crisis. So we were we were we're
training backwards at a rate of knots.
We had selfishness Creek back inblokes weren't doing their role
for the side. And the key things that changed
were around the player ownershipreally driving the standards.

(19:43):
They've been really specific around performance measures and,
you know, making sure that guys are really clear with their role
and we could all make each otheraccountable around that.
Another one was just realising what our purpose was.
We were, we were wasting our talent as a group and, and just

(20:03):
been really strong about what, what we'll, what we stood for
our values, our behaviours, you know, matched up with our, our
values as a group and things. And then that was.
Amazing how I reckon things can shift quickly if you get full
buy in from everyone and that was a great example for us how
things momentum change within literally probably within a
fortnight. You talk about the connection to

(20:24):
values, then where does the goalper SE of say, winning the
Premiership come into the conversation when you're at your
low? Do you even think about it?
Or is it about next week and just connecting with you, your
values, your role in the team and then just going for Saturday
and hoping, hoping for the best,yeah.
It is. I mean literally it's that old
footy cliche isn't it? Week by week.
But when, when you're down there, when you're when you're

(20:45):
struggling, I mean the premiership guy, it's that far
away, you're just trying. To so no one, no one would talk
about you're like, that's all. That's just a distance.
We just need to get next week back up on track again.
Yeah. Totally.
I mean, they talk about small wins, don't they talk about, you
know, going from if you like being completely uncompetitive
to somewhat competitive to competitive to, to winning.

(21:06):
And that journey might take several years.
And I guess Chris Fagan again isa great example of that.
When he took over 8-8 years ago,the club we were, we were
completely uncompetitive and then he got through small wins
and acknowledging small wins, boys, we didn't lose by 80, we
lost by 60. Well done.
You know, like. 1% thing, you know, once an everyday sort of
thing, you know, like progress forward, not backwards, right?

(21:26):
Yeah. Yeah, all that.
So September chat is not is not in the equation early on in the
season, maybe in pre season about getting to September, then
you start losing a few it just goes out the window.
Well, it's about you, like at least talk.
At least talk about the buildingblocks like a like a pyramid.
So boys, 22 games of the season.It's 23 these days.
I think it is. But you need 12 wins to make the

(21:48):
8:00. You made sixteen wins to make
top four. And we'd do a check in every
month. It was great at that with the
check in where we're sitting on the ladder.
Yeah, bang, we're here. But you gloss over for literally
a minute or two, we know where we're at.
Well, most blokes are going to look on their ABS where we're
sitting on the ladder. Yeah, didn't have ABS back then.
But, you know, So, yeah, you've got to be very present.
And that's, that's the boring nature, I guess, of of sport.

(22:10):
And you can only control what you're doing this weekend and
worry about that. Get that right?
Yeah, and and the feedback that you got when in those moments
when you were down, there's probably everyone's given their
opinion, you're getting opinionsleft, right and centre.
But back to you and yourself, what could you do and what how
did you go with that feedback interms of learning and improving
again? Yeah, For me, I learnt and I

(22:34):
guess this is part reflection aswell a little bit, but I during
my coaching days I was fortunate.
I have a couple of points of contact with the All Blacks,
great rugby union New Zealand side and they talk about the
critical few. And I love this concept.
And it's basically the keys to what you do well when you play
well. What are the critical two or
three things that you do, the core of what you do when you

(22:56):
play well and knowing them and understanding them and, and
visualising yourself doing them.And it's really powerful.
I found I used to get really nervous before games and not
before not sleep well. And I guess I learned through
failure the importance of, of understanding what I did well
when I played well. And there were three
controllable things for me and Ivisualised myself doing those,

(23:16):
those three things and, and, andalmost allowed me to
compartmentalise it and park it and then get a good night's
sleep. And seven, I know about 22 games
are not games. There's a long wait throughout
the day. And again, I'd throughout the
day, I'd visualise myself doing these, these two or three
things. And, and that the All Blacks
talk about, it's almost like the8020 rule where those three

(23:37):
things make up 80% of your game.So if you nail those three
things, it's gone a long way till you're performing well.
You might not win, but you're going to give yourself your best
chance of, of winning by nullingthose when you put your head on
the pillow at night. If you've got those things
right, then you're a fair chanceof doing a really good
performance. So I think that's a great thing
for athletes or people in life to understand what their real

(24:01):
keys to success are and, and theimportance of visualising that
done really well. It was great for me that helped
me with my my nerves pregame andI think it's a powerful tool for
everyone to be able to use. We had Dale Morris on podcast
recently. He was talking about
visualisation that he would get out to the games about two hours

(24:22):
earlier and walk the ground, feel the ground, even though it
was Marvel was inside or something like that.
And he was saying that he would just go through exactly with the
crowd and visualise everything. He was like an intense visualise
it. When you visualise, what were
you visualising? Visualising what you're going to
do during the game, the crowd, the moments, the things that you
were like training about what? What was the visualisation for

(24:44):
some of that? Yeah, I guess the the better
player became, the more opposition attention I'd get.
And so, you know, we played in an area there's a lot of a lot
of taggers. So a lot of folks that were
trying to just play on a opposition player and shut you
down so through the middle of ground.
And so yeah, that. So for me, if I had a tagger
playing on me, it was around playing as an on board

(25:06):
midfielder. I had to be really aggressive
with him at the right time and Iwas literally trying to pull the
heel of my palm through his chest to get some separation off
him. So when the ball hits Rock's
hands, I've got some bit of space off him.
So that was one. If I did it too early, it'd be
buckle over me before it was time to move.
And so that was my first one that was controllable to a

(25:26):
point. And then second one was just
when it glaze the Rock's hands just keep moving in a confined
area. Just keep moving.
I might not get it First off theruckman, but I'll be there to
lay a tackle or get a handball receive it just I'm hard to play
against if you keep moving. So that was my second one and
then the third one was, I guess,use your strength of my longer
running, get out and go and challenge my opponent with my
longer running, be the first to react and leave the area.

(25:48):
So that were three things that I'd visualise and that were
controllable things. And that were things that at
half time, if I wasn't a great game, I'd go back to visualising
myself on how am I going those things.
It wasn't, you know, how I dropped the ball and I kicked
the ball and onto my football, how I watched the ball into my
hands. You'd done the work, I've done
the years of practise and that it was, it was three things that
I could control and, you know, OK.

(26:10):
And in terms of a perfectionist,did you feel like you came off
most games happy with your performance or you always like a
little bit down on yourself? Yeah, it's probably the probably
the more that what could what could have done and yeah, the
Yep, more that way of of thinking probably.
But I learned you got to be yourown best mate at times too,

(26:34):
don't you? Especially in professional sport
where it's, you know, it's a tough environment and yeah, some
days, some years you're lucky toplay on a really strong side
and, and everyone makes you better.
And some years you're in, yeah, pretty ordinary teams.
And it's, you got to celebrate little small wins along the way
and, and be your own best friend.
Because you, I think if it's, ifyou're trying and you're, and
you're supporting your teammatesaround you, but you don't get

(26:57):
the, you don't get the chocolates.
You know, you've still got to celebrate.
You got still got to enjoy the experience.
Yeah, I was looking at some research about your your win
lost tally. Do you know your win lost?
Tally it. Would have been good the first
five years, but after that wouldhave been horrendous.
So do you reckon as opposed to 5050 or you reckon you're still
ahead on the on the wins? Oh, I reckon I have more losses

(27:19):
than wins. Have I?
No more wins. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK. Yeah, Yeah.
I think it's like 65%. Oh, really?
OK. Yeah, 65% with 35%.
OK. It was something like 200 and
something. No.
How many games do you play 3? 3/22.
Yeah, it was like 140 something losses and maybe 170 something

(27:39):
wins. All right, just snuck in.
Just snuck in on the positive side of the Ledger.
You're, you know, the, I think and, and Jared Berry, not Jared
Berry, Jared Lyons also said that you're the winner.
You learn. Did you take that sort of
philosophy as well into life? The losses were the ones where
you really picked yourself up and went, OK, we can learn from
that. Yeah, it's amazing how we learn
more through through our failures.
Couldn't agree more. You know, and that gets driven

(28:01):
into and in the club environment, but I, I think
individually as well, you've gotto obviously take stock of what.
Yeah. What are the learnings and
takeaways from from it. If I was planning to play that
that beat me on the day, you know, how did he beat me?
Why did he beat me? And, you know, just a little
thing, a little thing that I used to do is just watch the
whole game after, after, you know, after the game on the

(28:25):
Monday or whatever, Sunday. And sounds silly, of course
you'd watch the game. But a lot of players these days,
I just watch the edits of themselves.
And it's only KO minis, you know.
Well, all of themselves of themselves.
Oh, not the team. Yeah.
That's a cut in such a way, though.
It's just that. Well, yeah.
So I just made that as a discipline that because more of
like why didn't I get the ball in that situation or what could
I have done in that situation? That was my little learning that

(28:47):
I wanted to make sure that I did.
But anyway, that was just a little thing.
And then you got to 01 you you won the premiership, the the
ultimate dream of a player, the MCG winning the flag.
And then you talk about learningfrom your losses.
But you guys backed it up in O2,backed it up in 03 for what's
you know, you finest performancethat people continue to talk

(29:10):
about you about in O3. Like what lessons did you learn
from winning in O1 and winning in O2 to then have the best game
and probably of you know your life that you've been known for,
maybe not your best game personally, but the known for in
O3. Well, I got my best lesson for
my mum in my second year actually in 99 from from at the
Lions. You know, my second year in 99

(29:32):
was about trying to become a regular senior player in the in
the team and applied a handful of games in my first year.
But you're halfway through my second year.
I was playing regular Senior Games and I was thought I was
going pretty well. And it was this weekend and I
had my schoolmates over from Perth.
There's a handful of them. And mum was in town as well.
And we, we went out for, for dinner this night and we, we

(29:57):
were going to the restaurant andwe'd been together for probably
36 hours to that point. And I can't remember my
behaviour exactly, you know, 36 hours.
But we got out of the car and, and I, I, we started walking to
the restaurant and I was with mymates and 50 minutes from the
car, look back and mum's bent over by the car and I'm like,
oh, what's what's wrong with mum?
I walked back and, and see her. And as I walked back, I got

(30:18):
closer and I could see she was bent over to tears coming down
her face. And she looked up and I said,
mum, what's wrong? She said someone you, you've
changed. She said you're not the son that
I raised. You become an arrogant,
obnoxious pig. Basically you, you've changed.
And it was the best 30 seconds lesson I've ever got in my life.

(30:43):
Right there in the back of I wascredibly fortunate of amazing
parents that loved me and supported me.
Couldn't have done anything, anything more for me.
And to get that clip, that whackfrom her in that moment was
like, yeah, OK, you are getting ahead of yourself, buddy.
And I've always remembered of it.
It's always stuck with me. It's been a great lesson.
So I guess when you, I think we all get a bit of swagger in our

(31:07):
don't we in our teenage years orearly 20s and.
You'd have been 19 then what? Probably somewhere around there.
Yeah, about 1919 or 20 yeah yeah.
And I just remember the hurt in mum's eyes and how painful, how
much pain she was in and and I just it just it was like so raw
but so yeah that always stuck stayed with me.
So I joined our, I guess our successful areas as a as a club

(31:30):
and I was fortunate to win the cut the individual awards.
I just knew the importance of having to keep fronting up and
performing well. It doesn't matter what you're
lucky to achieve. I you need so much support along
the way. You need some luck along the
way. Obviously a lot of hard work.
But yeah, I always just kept my feet on the ground, I felt, and
they'd always stay with me. And the support network, when

(31:50):
you guys weren't doing as well, were they still there?
Did they still send you the textmessages saying mate, you know,
or keep it up or actually, I don't even know the score.
I wasn't even watching the game.How you?
How you been? Yeah, that they were always
supported. Yeah, dad, dad actually left and
not left, but he he got a boughta yacht during the JFC in 2008

(32:12):
on the cheap. My uncle had like a in Greece
had like a a long charter thing like a not not only flash boat
or anything, just a a yacht. And dad bought one on the cheap
over there as well. So he he used to go over in May,
June, July for a few years and and go and sail around the
island. So you never you'd be like, oh,
you lost again. I saw you.
I saw on the Internet you lost again.

(32:33):
I was like, Dad, yeah, you're not missing much.
Keep sailing. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, you can come back and and be the be the be the
omen to to win again or something along those lines.
Yeah. Did you, did you ever fall out
of, I suppose that the circuit of being so in engulfed into
footy that you just needed a break, a circuit break or
something to go go fishing for aweek etcetera, to become a
little bit overbearing? Yeah, I did.

(32:54):
I love my surfing growing up, growing up in WA and and getting
down the Gold Coast or up the coast was was my sort of
release. And yeah, still to this day love
that. Yeah, it's a balance.
I mean, when Lee often saying tous boys, you've only got so much
energy and you've got to make sure that you got to make sure
that your great advice is got tomake sure that you you're not
burning energy too much. So that come Saturday afternoon,

(33:17):
you you're not the peak of energy levels.
And I remember going down on Thursdays and surfing for, you
know, three hours and playing Saturday and thinking, yeah,
God, I'm going to pull back the amount of surfer I'm doing here.
But it's yeah, it was, yeah. It's amazing how many the the
transition between the guys thatare doing or the study or work

(33:39):
experience or part time work, you know, an interest, a hobby
away from the footy field, how that really helps their
performance on the field, makingthem, I guess, more well rounded
people. And, and, and it's not just
because you think about it, if they have a long term injury and
and footy's all they're doing, then that's taken away.
It can really rock their identity.

(34:00):
So that that's that's a really big one.
I know clubs have have really helped, you know, make that a
focus the last decade or so. Were you when you were playing
footy? Was there anything else on the
agenda? The back of your mind going, you
know, what if, what if I do my ACL?
What if I do my Achilles or something and it's it's
curtains. I was probably aware of it, but
I didn't really think about it awhole lot.

(34:20):
Just in the zone, Yeah, as probably as long as possible.
And yeah, as much fun as possible.
Pretty much, Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then and then from getting towards the tail end of your
career thinking, OK, this might not last forever, What was the
thinking there? Yeah, I I had a passion for
coaching, as I said, and, and that so I had took the easy soft
option really for a state at theclub that I played at and

(34:42):
coached. So that was the, the, the I
guess. I know, don't get me wrong, it
was a tough few years with how we went.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's challenging for for footballers.
We're so privileged to be able to do what we've wanted to do
since little kids. You know, we're so fortunate and
but it it is, that's why it's important to be able to make
sure whilst you're playing you're doing something outside

(35:04):
of the game to to better yourself and to understand that
there's a lot more to the world than just just football or
professional sports. So yeah, I was always conscious
of that, always quite inquisitive and interested in
things and did a ray of different, different things.
And yeah, I'm probably still doing that now to be honest.
But yeah, I was conscious of notjust playing football and, you

(35:28):
know, being on the Nintendo Switch.
Yeah, yeah, right then. And you're on the switch a bit.
No, no, I'm not. I'm not a I'm not a gay old.
Know how to play with yours? How do you reckon you would have
gone with the the Instagram generation?
Yeah, gosh, you're either eithera hero or you're a dad, aren't?
You you would have had a fair few followers back in the back

(35:48):
in the day I reckon and 01/02 ifthey're around.
A three Yeah, I do feel for the for the athletes in in that
modern. Yeah, I do because it because it
is, it's it's vicious. You know, you're either I guess
it relates to something again, Lee Matthews used to say to I
said, boys, you're never as goodas I say you are and you're
never as bad. And it probably relates to a
little bit to social media. In the modern ace doesn't know

(36:08):
where you're pumped up if you have a great game and you win or
if you if you lose, yeah, you can cop it.
So I do feel for this generation.
And when you copped it, did you read it, listen to it, watch it,
etcetera? Like did you listen to the
noise? Not really Chris.
I mean I to be honest, I was playing footy in Queensland.

(36:29):
It's, it is, it is the back box of the AFL.
So there's not a lot of scrutiny.
The back end of my playing days when we weren't a great side,
that was a challenge and that wecopped a bit as a, as a, as a
club. But yeah, the people, the
players down in Melbourne, the southern states are coppered,
you know, regularly that would be a challenge.
You hear guys not watching TV orthe footy shows or picking up a

(36:52):
newspaper just to not get make that a distraction and, and,
and, you know, get in, infiltrate your head in a
negative way. So yeah, I'm glad I played footy
up here and could go about life and and not having to be in your
face all the time. It was there any criticism along
the way which stuck with you andyou're like, I'll prove you
wrong. Were you a bit of a revenge stop
person? Not that I can really remember.

(37:16):
You sort of just copped it on the chin and went OK, yeah, it
was a bad game. Yeah, I think I played a pretty
ordinary game, but we'll I'll show you next week.
Yeah, yeah, pretty much, pretty much.
I guess for us, when we look back, we, you know, the
premiership year that we had, there was a lot of guys around a
similar two or three, four year age group and a lot of them
retired after 04/05/06. And then in the, in your mid

(37:36):
20's, the club big, you have real ownership for the footy
club and, and, and it was Jonathan Brown, Luke Power,
myself, a couple of others that you really.
So I, I enjoyed that trying to get out.
We've come right down the bottomtowards the bottom of the
ladder, trying to get our work our way back up again.
And, and history says we weren'treally able to achieve that to a
great extent, but for various reasons.

(37:58):
But I, I took, yeah, a lot of pride in trying to help the next
generation of young midfielders coming through and, and trying
to help mental end somewhat throughout that year.
And and you know, I'm, I'm proudof that, too.
The connection that you've had with those team mates through
that era, still to this day, youtry and catch up when you can.
Yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, we're still tied.
It's amazing. Isn't what a premiership can can

(38:18):
do for for a brotherhood, if that's the word, your connection
in unity. A lot of them are coaching and
are Interstate. So we we try to catch up grand
final weekend each year and, andthings we had the AFL Hall of
Fame in Melbourne last Tuesday night and I got to see Nigel and
actor and brand and Brandy and Vossi and that was great.

(38:38):
That was a lot of fun. So yeah, we, we are, we are
connected. Yeah, still a.
Lot. Was there a particular moment or
person that some of the memoriesand some of the stories are
pretty vivid on and off the field?
Martin Pike comes to mind. The Pike he was, he was a bit of
a renegade. Michael.
No. Or Mel.
Yep. Or Mel.
Justin Leppich. Leppard.

(38:58):
Yep, Yep. We had read some big characters
in our team. We really did throw Hacker as
well. Yeah, of course.
Yeah, we did. We fair to say we'd probably got
away with a bit more back then when people not knowing who we
were in the Brisbane nightlife back in back in the early 2000s
speaking. Of Brisbane nightlife What was
your what was your nightlife of choice back then?
Well, I was saying earlier Chrisoff there city rolls was was

(39:20):
raging when I first came to the late.
Nights Yep, and I remember having the drink, the $20, the
20 drink punch card, which you'dgo in and they'd have the manual
Clipper like the little punch, the punch hole and you're kind
of going just punch it on the side and adrenaline sports bar.
So, so was that I'm going to askyou a question here mate.
So is that you get you buy 19 drinks and you get the 20th

(39:40):
free. No, you buy.
You buy, you pay $20 over the bar.
Oh, you get a 2020 drink card. It's twenty punch holes in it,
dollar a drink, dollar drink, Yeah, total drinks.
And then you go up and then you that punch, literally punch it,
hole in it. And so you carry it around.
And if you lost it, you're in big trouble, right.
And if we went through the wash or something, you'd, you'd lost

(40:01):
your drink card. But now that was pre pre GST.
And, and you'd have 20 drinks and so do all of a sudden you'd
be like going oh, where are we going?
We're going to rollers. Of course we've got 8 drinks
left, but then you're out. And then you're going to have to
top it up. You have to, you know, find the
20 bucks from somewhere to buy anew one.
So that's wild. That's that's remarkable, isn't
it, What we that would have? Been nine.
Well, I was 18 in 1999, so yeah,there you go around then. 98 We

(40:24):
had the Brisbane Lions, the CityRollers drink card without a mug
shot on the front of the card. And I was playing the next day
and I had some friends over fromPerth and one of them was an
Italian mate and he looked, he looked nothing like me.
They gave him the card and the person on the bar, the bar said
that's not Simon Black. I'm taking that, confiscating
that car. I never saw it again.

(40:45):
Oh, shattered. You Saturday like can I get one
of those new drinkers? No mate, if someone trying to
impersonate you, what are you trying to do?
That's right. Yeah, so but.
So city rolls is one, yeah. Yeah, adrenaline.
Yeah, the. Drilling Sports Bar.
He's owned by some of the sportsstars, isn't it?
Yeah, it was your logins. And and and the Hogan, the Hogan
Boys, fielders, feeling his brother.
They're the most generous brothers of of, of in history in

(41:07):
Queensland. Those guys, I made a free drinks
they gave Ian. Healy it was.
There it was. Heels.
I reckon it was maybe Pat Rafterand Leroy Loggins.
And they used to make an appearance every now and then.
It was pretty much the only sports bar you could go to to
watch live sport. I mean, there's picking Russell.
Everything does it now. Yeah, this ability.
But yeah, big big, big fish tank.
Remember the big? Fish tank, the big fish tank,
the little sharks in it. Yeah, there's a few sharks in

(41:28):
the place, I reckon. There you go.
So and and did you get up to no good as a bit of a bit of a
party animal in in your youth oryou're too busy trying to play
football? Be serious, right?
Well, it's a good era where where it was professional, but
we certainly had a lot of fun along the way too.
Yeah. And I think Lee really sharpen
us up as a playing group with expectations around standards

(41:49):
and drinking and things. But yeah, we, we certainly
didn't, you know, didn't miss out and the.
Celebrations post 01 versus O2 versus 03.
Do you remember a bigger night than any of them?
Oh, they're, they're big weeks, Chris, because you, you know,
you win the Saturday night. Sunday morning you're at, yeah,
you're at Brunswick Street and Fitzroy.
You come back to the Gabba, fly back and there's all the crowd

(42:10):
there. So that's amazing, 24 hours.
Then you roll into Mad Monday, big day.
And then Tuesday's a street parade through Queen Street
Mall. Wednesday was a a brewery tour.
They did a commemorative Cairns out at CUB.
It's off. So you're like, oh, and then
Thursday I think might have beena a day off.
And then Friday was the best andfairest.
So it was. It was almost a week of just.

(42:32):
And you talk about you focusing on your sleep, you know has an
important catalyst for you to get your game right.
It wouldn't have been much in those weeks, right?
No, I was just, I was just hanging on wide knuckled.
It was, it was horrible. And you look back now at that,
at that era, O1 O2 the, the three paid and it doesn't, it
doesn't happen very often. And you look at the lines going
again and, and the pick me up. I mean, what do you feel when

(42:53):
you, when you someone says that you're the most kept line player
and you're Brownlow medallist and you're Norm Smith and you
won three premierships. How does it make you feel?
Yeah, obviously it's time it's gone by probably more so you
appreciate what the great team that we we were part of.
And Yep, I was fortunate to win a a couple of individual awards
along the way. And but I'm, I'm also conscious

(43:13):
that those awards you don't win unless you're part of a really
good side as well. You know, to, to win the norm
5th medal, you've got to be partof a good team to, to play on
grand final day, don't you? So, yeah, I was, I was fortunate
to yeah, to to win some of thoseawards.
But everyone's what's better, the grand premierships are, are
far, far better to be able to celebrate them with your mates.

(43:34):
And it's not because it's not just one year that it takes to
win a premiership at the highestlevel.
You know, it's the, the formative years that it takes to
build, to come together and, youknow, form a former brotherhood,
build trust within the group blokes to do their role and, and
all that goes into it. It takes a lot of time.
So when you get there and you climb the mountain and to do it

(43:57):
several years, it forms a real, real solid bond.
So Yep, the premierships are farsuperior than the individual
accolades. I'm going to touch on one footy
thing before we get off the footy thing. 03 your, your game,
the norm Smith. What do you reckon was about
that game for you personally that made it so special?

(44:17):
And do you think you know why that day?
I, I knew that I was going to play big midfield minutes.
Fosse had bad knee injury, Nigelhad three broken ribs.
And there's, there's a lot of injuries in our team.
And, and so I just, I remember, I mean, you set yourself to have
a big game every every week, let's be honest.
But yeah, I just felt I'd had two years experience of planning

(44:40):
grand finals and I understood the environment.
And the night before the game I did a lot of a lot of
visualisation of what I was going to expect to see the next
day right up to the lead up to the first bounce.
And I just remember being calm and and and just a sense of
playfulness and fun and as opposed to letting the nerves
get a hold of me was the first year in the grandfather of I

(45:02):
won. I I felt like a spectator out
there. I was that nervous and and met
up with with nerves. But yeah, I three I just felt
really calm and and great. Yeah.
And things just started to to roll and you got to take my milk
up for all it is when you're in that moment.
And it was a a special day. But I did, I visualised a lot

(45:22):
the night before and then that certainly helped me a lot.
Don't know what happened in 04. Yeah, well it was, it was a
rough game, that 04 game wasn't it too?
You mentioned the word fun there.
And I actually had had Michael Kasper's on recently talking
about the fact that he was putting too much pressure on
himself to get back into the Australian Test team.
And then he went back out to thefield cricket and he said he's
like why do I play the game? I play the game because they

(45:42):
have fun. And he went and got 5 wickets.
He said the pressure was off. Did you have fun playing footy?
Yeah, I did. But I but I was, I was a bit
that perfectionist mindset that that, you know, I'd see the
negatives in, in my performance a lot.
And so with that, you can get down on yourself and, and there
were certainly lots of times where I just had to try and
shake that and just go back to almost a little kid of why I

(46:05):
played the game and fun. And it probably started with not
being frivolous, if that's the word with my training.
But when I go to train, try to have the fun with your mates,
see it as having join with your mates out there and and come in.
You got to work hard. You know, otherwise you'd get a
clip from the coaches, but just see the fun and and also give of
yourself like that. Sports psychologist is a great

(46:27):
guy. Phil Johncy work with the
Australian cricket team a lot inthe Broncos.
Aussie, Aussie, That's him. Yep, great man Phil and Phil
Phil, you've had this saying where like on those days when
you don't, you jump out of bed and you don't feel like we don't
feel like jumping out of bed. You, you're internalising and
you're, you're really intrinsic.I guess he would say, go into

(46:47):
the club and go out your way andbe genuine about it.
But go over to someone and ask him how they are and, and be,
you know, he might be asked how the family is and, and get to
get to know them on on another level.
If you like. He said where energy flows,
energy goes and he goes, I guarantee you boys, he said if
if you do that and you're genuine about it, energy will
come back towards you. It'll get your little internal

(47:08):
motor going. So I started doing that about
about 20 years ago, I reckon, Chris, and it's quite amazing
when you because it forces you to get outside yourself and and
and you're genuine about it and and asking about someone you
guys, it's almost like a human condition, but was energy.
We'll come back towards you. And it's so true.
It's it's it really does. And I find that one, on those
days when I'm feeling a bit flator in internalising, the power

(47:32):
of that is quite amazing. A little hack that I learned
recently was to when someone serves you a coffee or if you're
a restaurant or a cafe, etcetera, just to ask them how
their day is. And, and when they give you a
coffee to say, you know, I hope you have a great rest of your
day to be surprised at the shockthey get.
They're like, oh, what that sortof thing.
You're like, oh, mate, I hope you have a nice day.
Like, oh, thank you. That's very kind.

(47:53):
Because it's it's a simple hack and you genuinely mean it
because they're just getting monotonous people who probably
don't treat them very well and then that it breaks the circuit.
It's pretty pretty easy life hack.
It is it isn't it in a selfish way, it comes back to you and,
and, and you may you feel good about yourself too.
Yeah. And I've found that with that.
And and if you do it for two or three minutes and you get, it's

(48:13):
amazing how it gets yourself going and you find energy within
yourself. So there's a little hack for.
You and now you're coaching the Elevens going back, they're
having fun and they're but they know the scoreboard, the win
loss, etcetera. How do you go about getting some
of that back to say just keep, keep having fun?
Are you having fun and getting that feedback loop?
Yeah, it is. It's I guess the challenge of

(48:33):
competitive spirit can come out sometimes as as a coach, but it
is, it's just about having fun. I've got to keep checking myself
on that. But it's good.
Yeah, we've, yeah, it's, it's just about enjoyment and being
conscious of that as we go through and.
You've got a a small connection to the gorillas now, I believe
where where my son plays. Yeah, yeah.
My old boy, he's my oldest boy. He's he's, he's down there.

(48:55):
Yep, this year and have fun. He's loving it.
Yeah, he is. He's he's really enjoying it.
Yeah. They've got a great, great
little team and really good coaching group and it's it's got
a great field at that club. So yeah, it's been been
fantastic. Mate, while we're on sport, a
question I ask my guests is their all time favourite
sporting moment. And it can include yourself, but
I'd I'd rather not, I'd rather have a a bucket like a an event

(49:18):
which you is very clear to you. We might have already covered
it, but your favourite all time sporting moment?
Probably that 94 West Coast Eagles grand final 'cause that
was. As a 15 year old at the G, yeah.
The G, Yeah. With all those stars that you
end up playing against, yeah. That that just inspired me, I
think and and that so that was that was really special.

(49:38):
Yes, yeah, that was. So there's one, I think another
one for you. 24 lines. Yeah, that was that was really
cool too. Obviously.
Yeah, that was really special. But you know, but it's funny
when you I was just like a fan again, you know, just it's to us
come back to being a fan. So that was that was really.
Special you get, you get, you get mobbed at the G wouldn't you
like people? Oh, it's on another selfie,

(50:00):
etcetera. You know, do you, you, how do
you deal with that? Oh, they, they know they've they
know they're football down there.
Yeah, a lot more than up here, that's for sure.
But no, it's. All Oh, I remember that getting
on you do I know. Yeah, yeah, they know they're
footy. But yeah, no, I love, I love the
I'd love to go to the US Mastersgolf one day.
Oh, that's the buckle, Liz. That was the next question.

(50:20):
You. You've pre empted it.
Yeah, sorry. He was.
Just. Jumping the gate.
Yeah, I know. How good was Rory this year?
Yeah, Amazing, incredible, yeah,amazing.
So I mean, I, I'm not a massive golfer, but I just I've been
watching the Masters like a lot of us since I was young kid.
My dad was a golfer and things and just the I've got a friend
that's been there. But yeah, just the the course

(50:42):
looks unbelievable, doesn't it? And the the spectators that
Craig you. Watched the end of the US
yesterday at U.S. Open.
I just saw the highlights of it.Yeah, part was unbelievable.
Wasn't it in the wet? Yeah, it's about sporting
highlight moments. I've got one final question as a
as a parent now watching some footy and other sports etcetera,
every now and then there's a bitof bit aggro, there's a bit of

(51:03):
an aggression from the parents, you know, you with the refs and
things. It seems to be a bit of a
problem sometimes with people going overboard and and all
these different sports, which isnew to me as a parent because of
my kids are now at that age of playing at that sort of level of
sport where there are kind of wins and losses, etcetera.
What's your advice as a parent watching your your kids play?

(51:27):
Taking a couple of deep breaths when you get really frustrated,
I reckon. Yeah, I've started to see a
little bit just the people antagonising each each other on
on the sideline and as a parent,you know in two different teams
that can. But yeah, just being able to for
things that the situation not becoming volatile, just being
able to. I think we get frustrated don't

(51:49):
we by to give you child involved.
We've seen them potentially getting hurt by an opposition
player that's deliberately trying to hurt them.
I mean that that'll roll up any parent and umpires not doing
something about it or the opposition coach not doing so.
You know there's there's the thing with contact sport isn't
it? There's you can get really
angry, really frustrated on the back of behaviour of people out

(52:11):
there. So I guess, I guess it's just
taking a deep breath and not, you know, lashing out, reacting
like you probably wanted it fromthe ass and just trying to keep
a cool head. Easier said than done right now
about that. But you know, we've got the
Grand Marshall there, you know, if you want to go on break, talk
to your team manager and things.So it's not a, it's not

(52:32):
acceptable to go and abuse the umpire or go and abuse the
opposition coach for mine, but it's a challenge to take take a
few deep breaths and think about, you know, what's the the
best way of managing this situation rather than just
reacting and lashing down. And then when your children come
off with a positive or negative feeling from the game, advice of

(52:52):
parents in terms of what you sayand what comes out of your
mouth. Well, I heard that one recently,
I think it's a study in the US, they said about the best thing
to say to your child after you watch you have played a game is
not given feedback, which can beincredibly hard not to.
But it's just to say I love watching you play.
I love watching you. Play.
It's pretty powerful. I like that.

(53:13):
I had Scott Roth from the Jackdumpers said the 1st 15
minutes in the car ride's the most important and you can't be
going about the game. Oh, you dropped that catch or
you missed the goal. All right, I remember because
that will just ruin the kids. It's like some sort of science
about the 1st 15 minutes as well.
Yeah, that's right. And So what do you, what do you
just repeat what you said? I love watching you play.
And just as simple as that. And and why it's playful, as I

(53:36):
guess, you know, a lot of kids are trying to process the game
themselves in their own mind. And there's just a real simple
little bit of positive reinforcement.
And I think back as that's I wasso lucky.
My dad pretty much said that to me.
It was a Kiwi maybe, didn't knowmuch about Aussie.
It was footage. All about the all.
Blacks. But it's, yeah, I reckon that's

(53:56):
so powerful, just, and it's simple and it's, it just puts a
a bit of a, you might, you know,yeah, you, you might just pack
the feedback for another day if you've got any bit of feedback,
yeah. And one piece of advice to
someone that is maybe around your kids age or teenage years,
etcetera, that wants to be like Simon Black living in 2025,

(54:20):
professional athlete, wants to win a flag, wants to win
multiple flags, wants to win theBrownlow, the Norman Smith.
It's the dream come true. What's your advice?
Yeah, I guess it's around keeping the fun in the game.
You've got to have AI. Always had a ball in my hand.
You've got to love the game, youknow, because of it.
You can only love the game, but you're good at it.
It becomes hard work at some point, you know, whether you're

(54:42):
17 or 18 in unit, you know a selected side.
You got to work hard if you're going to make the AFL.
And when you make the AFL, she'shard work, you know, day in, day
out. So you've got to find the
passion in yourself. And so that's one part and the
other one is around to Spain. What are you good at?
Make it great so. You know a superpower.

(55:03):
Paul Ruse talked about that. Yeah.
He talked about like just doubling down on becoming known
for something. Yep.
And like Steph Curry is not known for his stealing ability
or his rebounds is he is known for the three point shot.
Yeah, right. But he'll still work on it, but
not nowhere near as much as the three point shot.
Yeah, that was you as well. Yeah, I think so.
What? Were you good at?
Well, it was my my longer running from an.

(55:25):
Athletic, There's one of the three things you said you can
control, right? Yeah, and then, and then I, I,
because it wasn't overly big or overly quick.
I knew I had to be really clean with my, with my skills, like
not fumbling below my knees, forinstance.
So I, I've spent a lot of time working on my, on my craft, my,
my ground level pick up and thenmaking quick decisions and, and
basketball for me, it was a great game to learn how to you

(55:47):
think of footy, you know, 360° game, a lot of bodies running
tight. Where's, where's my outlook?
Where's my teammate? Basketball was really good for
me for that. But just, yeah, just make your,
your strengths really good because in the day we'll get
judged in this world. And if you're going to play for
footy, the recruiters, what's his key strengths?
And if you make him from good togreat, then you are a chance of

(56:09):
being able to be drafted on the back of something there.
You need lots of attributes, let's be honest, But you need to
be known for something and be graded.
Don't be happy, just be pretty good at it.
That's awesome. Simon Black, thank you so much
for coming on School board, the podcast today to Share your
story and then all the best of the next phase of your life with
the coaching and the footy and all the things that that go with

(56:29):
it. I really do appreciate you
taking the time and looking forward to catching.
Up. Yeah.
Thanks, Chrissy. Great to have a chat with you on
the school board. Thanks for having me.