July 2, 2025 • 37 mins
In Episode 89 of Scoreboard, I sit down with Garry Nucifora—longtime rugby contributor and one of the key figures pushing for a national Women’s Sevens competition in Australia.
From coaching to executive leadership, Garry shares what it takes to build something sustainable from the ground up. We talk about the evolution of women’s sevens, the success of the AON 7s series and why school and uni systems remain the heartbeat of long-term success.
We cover:
🏉 The rebuild of Women’s Sevens and what’s needed next
📈 Creating a true national league by 2026
🎓 The importance of visibility, structure, and student-athletes
🏆 Looking ahead to Brisbane 2032
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Thanks again to Swytx to allow us to tell more stories from the game of sport.
📌 More episodes: www.scoreboardpodcast.com
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📩 Partnerships: chris@scoreboardpodcast.com
#ScoreboardPodcast #7s #rugby #leadership #sportsdevelopment #queenslandrugby #Lions2025 #grassroots #pathways #sportbusiness #olympics2032 #womensrugby #swyftx
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, it's Chris Titley here. And on today's episode of School
Board of the podcast, I'm joinedby Gary Nisifora.
Gary, thank you so much for being part of this series.
It's a pleasure to be here, Chris.
Thank you. We're sitting here on Wednesday
the 2nd of July, a very important day for Queensland
rugby as the British and Irish Lions make their way into
Suncorp Stadium tonight. How are you?
(00:21):
What are you thinking about thatall, Gary?
Well, it's obviously very exciting for for rugby in
Australia and as it turns out, Ionly recently secured a ticket.
So I'm actually they're pretty hard to get.
They are like hens teeth. But looking forward to it.
And yeah, it's a fairly significant game.
I can actually, I was actually there when they last, I was
(00:44):
actually at the game as a youngster in 1971 when they beat
them at Ballymore. So I'm showing my age, but it's
quite exciting to close the loop.
Yes, no indeed. I think David Hanham from the
the Reds talked about that moment and that though I think
they'll caught off guard slightly the lines around
Queensland. Oh, that should be a walkover.
But we'll we shall see what happens tonight and and I'm sure
(01:06):
this podcast will be will age intime and there'll be a good
game. Gary, your involvement in rugby
dates back a long way. Can you talk about your
involvement in rugby? Well, obviously I've played the
game as a youngster. I, I continued in association
with it beyond high school into club rugby, played at Queensland
(01:30):
University. My family's got a long
association with, with the club.My brothers played there as
well. And I basically went into
coaching sort of in in my early sort of 20s once I'd finished
playing rugby and coaching was avery big part of it.
(01:50):
And I continued involved my involvement with schoolboy
coaching and 1st fifteens in Queensland schools and
Australian school sides and really enjoyed that phase of my
life. And then stayed in that sort of
education rugby space and then moved into professional rugby.
(02:11):
And I was team manager of the Reds for several years in
professional rugby, which has been a wonderful launching pad
for a lot of the stuff I'm doingnow, not only in rugby, but in,
in lots of different sports in the business.
And I'm I continue to remain close to the game and and have a
particular interest in the development of of women's sevens
(02:35):
at the moment. Gary, your relationship with
rugby, do you remember the earlydays when you started figuring
out the game, what it was like, what it was like to play, what
it was like to coach and has that changed over time?
I think I was lucky that I, I managed to have a lot of really,
really good coaches and influential people along the
(02:56):
way. And I think they certainly
shaped a lot of the things that I did as a coach and, and, and
then into administration and sports leadership.
And yes, guys like Alec Evans, who was a big part of life for
me as a youngster at, at my school of prison grammar.
(03:19):
And, and Alex still plays a verybig part in a lot of people's
lives. He's quite elderly now, but was,
was a, was a well respected leader and influencer in a lot
of people's lives, including my own with, with coaching.
But yes, I think you know, you, you, you take the, you cherry
(03:40):
pick the good things and you hang on to them and you take
them forward and you hope that you can, you know, convey what's
valuable to people that you are fortunate to have contact with
in coaching and, and in rugby. Gary, what is it about the game
of rugby union that you love themost?
And I suppose in terms of like where you've really find
(04:01):
happiness and joy. Well, it's a very holistic
question, that one certainly forfor me, it's been enjoying it at
all the levels I've been fortunate enough to play it,
coach it, be involved in it at clubs and universities, in, in,
(04:21):
in the professional arena as well.
It's it's internationality is both at times its greatest
strength and its greatest weakness.
The fact that we it is such a tremendous game, but but in
different pockets of the world right now, you know, it's, it's,
(04:43):
it's efficacy varies so much depending on what hemisphere
you're in, what country and those hemispheres you're in.
You know, and I guess tonight the the game which you referred
earlier, the Queensland game versus the Lions, it's certainly
a I guess it's a little bit of aline in the sand where where
(05:04):
people who will be there at thatgame will see, at least at the
moment, arguably the best of what is happening in the
northern hemisphere against certainly a burgeoning, you
know, young Queensland side, which represents the whole
conversation about where rugby is in the country that we're
trying to basically re emerge asit were.
(05:25):
So yeah, it's, it's a just an, it's an interesting game to be
around. It can be very frustrating at
times because we have such, it is such a great product, but
it's exciting being around its development now with the, you
know, the women's game in sevensand fifteens has really emerged.
And I think we've got to make some decisions about what we
(05:46):
want to, where we want to focus our energies to get the best
return on our investment, which is good for the guy.
Yeah, Gary, interesting point around the sevens there and, and
I was, I was chatting to to David yesterday around cricket's
involvement in T20 at a global level.
It's a different product and, and, and a lot of sports have
their different products. You got like for instance, the
(06:07):
league has their origin, the AFLobviously has their grand final,
but it's not so global as you mentioned, you know, strengths
and weaknesses of being being global.
I'm curious to know your, you know, your involvement in
Sevens, the product that is Sevens that has been around for
a very long time, the ups and downs of it all and where you
see the future. Well, the first involvement that
(06:29):
I had with the Sevens was when Iwas working at Bond University.
I was the Exec Director of Sportthere for about 7 and a bit
years and had a fabulous time atthe university building the
sport programme from pretty muchGround Zero and one of the focus
areas during that time we brought into the rugby programme
(06:50):
that was there. We were instrumental in
developing what was to be known as the AEON Women's University
Sevens Competition. And it was an initiative which I
guess we drove at the universitycombined with Uni Sport and with
with Rugby Australia. And it was put together very,
(07:14):
very quickly, very well off the back of what was happening
around the 2016 success of the, the Australian women's side,
winning the gold medal at Rio. And although that was a great
thing that happened, a tremendous thing, the danger was
that if they by winning it people they can't return to
(07:37):
Australia. And there was no, there was no
structures. And so we were the Ion Sevens
was instrumental in creating that structure and it was highly
successful, played women's only competition, played by 8
universities from all around Australia, stretching across
from WA all the way to the East Coast, SA, Melbourne, all of
(08:00):
that. And it went for about two or
three years and then has then morphed into a slightly, you
know, different format with academies and that in the
states, primarily of NSW and Queensland taking over the the
bulk of what was the Aeon Sevens.
And look, I guess it was that and then the, you know, the
(08:23):
subsequent development of HSBC, the world tournament with which
of course is men and women. But the women's game in sevens
is, is an extremely high poweredand excellent sporting contest,
which meets all of the, the current demands of, of I guess
(08:44):
the sporting appetite these days.
You mentioned the T20 and you know, you, you could certainly
draw parallels to the fact that,you know, the sevens is the T20
of, of rugby and the way that people are consuming sport these
days, a fifteens game is, you know, obviously a different sort
(09:05):
of vehicle. It's for the purists, the tech,
the technicalities of the game, the English designed the game.
So it's, it's naturally going tobe somewhat complex and, and,
and you know, full of officialdoms blowing whistles
and stopping games and controlling things.
Whereas the sevens game is a, isa, is a completely different
(09:28):
product. That's, you know, that's for,
for today. And the women's game, which a
group that I'm leading is focusing on is particularly the
the product of most, most appeal.
So I think that, you know, the game itself is is evolving.
(09:48):
It's not evolving. All boats are not rising on the
tide as they should. Some parts of the game are
moving in a different direction from others.
Some are being left behind. Match officialdom, for example,
needs to be given a much greaterfocus.
It's extremely important. You can't have a game of
fifteens or sevens or anything if you don't have somebody
(10:11):
who's, you know, competent and capable and keen and interested
to blow a whistle in the fifteens game.
It's incredibly complex game forofficialdom, whereas the sevens
game is is less so. And that that makes it again, on
the officialdom side, much more appealing.
So yeah, it's a universal conversation.
(10:31):
I was having a chat to my formerneighbour who who runs a, a
sports programme at a high school the other day.
And he was talking about the, the, why basketball is so
popular as a, as a grassroots sport.
And he was saying along the lines of that you, you know,
you're always in the game as opposed to you can't really hide
or cricket, you might bat #8 andnot get a bat.
(10:52):
Soccer, you might be a goalkeeper and the team wins 10
nil and you don't get a look in.It's fast, it's furious, it's
indoors, it's mixed. It's, you know, you can have a
break, you can have a breather. You know all those attributes
apart from the weather, I suppose a little bit the sevens,
but apart from those attributes,if you're playing sevens you
can't have, you can't have a breather, you can't sort of sort
of be on the sidelines. You're in the game, you're
(11:13):
always part of a team and it's always fast paced.
Are you seeing those attributes resonate to a junior grassroots
level? 100% someone in broadcast with
whom we've been dealing in our group said that the broadcast or
indeed spectators, which I guessis 1 and the same really games
(11:35):
with consequence are the most engaging.
And by that for television and broadcast, it means that to make
it exciting and a product you try to minimise the, the amount
of downtime or lack of involvement like you were
referring to in certain positions.
I'd agree with you with basketball, it's it was probably
(11:57):
one of the earlier games in Australia that when it did come
in, it was, it was met with some, oh, you know, that's the
game, the United States and all the Pzazz and all of that.
But when it was in its early halcyon iteration, it was
extremely popular. It went through a bit of a down
period and it's been Larry Kesselman has controlled the
(12:18):
competition and owns it and has done a magnificent job in
resurrecting it. With sevens, yes, it absolutely
does have the parallel, the consequences that you in sevens
you have to make quick decisions.
You don't have the luxury of making a mistake and saying,
well, I've got another 70 minutes to make up for that.
(12:39):
And, and people who coach sevensand will our group's lucky
enough to have several people involved from the highest level
to be able to endorse this remark, say that good sevens
players make good fifteens players, but they make excellent
fifteens players because they'regood at making decisions
quickly. They're aware of the consequence
(13:00):
of making a poor decision because there isn't the time.
And suddenly all the world's come together that makes
spectators happy, players happy,coaches happy, broadcast happy,
and suddenly you've got a product that is an Olympic
product that people are saying, wow, this is great, why don't we
(13:22):
see it more? And that's kind of why I'm doing
what I'm doing. Yeah, Gary, you touched on the
Olympics there. I mean, a person on the street
might, might think that that sevens rugby is not an Olympic
sport, even though we have had success.
What what can we do I suppose toget a, get the message out there
that it is an Olympic sport. There is a medal up for grabs
and we've got Brisbane coming upas well.
(13:43):
Yeah, there's a, there's a very well worn phrase running around
that if you can't see it, you can't be it.
And I know that's something that, and quite justifiably, a
lot of women's sports, you know,often use and refer to basically
send the flare up to say, Hey, look over here, this is what
we've got. And what do we, what do we do
(14:08):
about to your question, what do we do about it?
Well, you create an environment where there is frequency that
where I, I guess I'll, I'll stayon my theme of because we're
working in the female space withyoung girls.
We're young girls can see the game being played at the moment
in Australia. The only time that you can see
(14:30):
an international high level event in sevens is, is is the
HSBC tournament in, in Perth, which comes once a year.
I, I, I've said often that sevens is like a comet, a comet,
a comet. It basically you know it's
coming when it's here. It burns really brightly and
(14:53):
everybody's excited about it andthen it disappears as fast as it
arrived. And what we've got to do is, is
address this, this comet syndrome with sevens.
There's a lot of people that have been doing a lot of work in
sevens over many years in their own spaces off the back of
clubs. And there's been some really,
really good tournaments. And I've spoken to many of the
(15:15):
organisers in the course of this, but it's not coordinated.
And, and as a result, if it's not coordinated, then there's no
galvanization of a central purpose.
And so therefore there's no tournaments that are seen on a
regular basis. So if we can grab hold of this
Olympic comet, put a, you know, galvanised all of these people
(15:40):
together and there are lots of them, and then put a really,
really high excellent product together in, in schools,
universities and, and then provide a professional space,
which is what we're looking to do.
You'll have that. You'll have that question
answered. And and Gary, you mentioned
around the schools there, I meantouch footy is a thing and
(16:03):
there's lots of touch competitions and there might be
some parallels between touch andseven square.
Does that fit in the mix? Is either complementary or I
suppose a pathway for some people?
Yeah, I think, I think you, you search touch is it has been a
great foundation for again, withthe contacts we've got in, in
the women's space. That's where many of the the the
(16:25):
female players, the girls have come from.
And it's a, you know, it's an excellent sport for developing.
You can see the, the linear development of someone playing
touch and then moving into the contact sphere of of of sevens.
So let's not, let's not sort of make these opposing arguments.
(16:46):
Let's sit down and work togetheron what's, you know, let's make
what's already good better and then create a, you know, as I
said, create a pathway or a, youknow, galvanised people into a
sense of purpose. I, I can tell you, Chris, the,
I've been working on this for many, many years now.
And the, in the, in the school space, which is a space where
(17:08):
I've had a lot to, you know, I've worked for many years and
not in the female space, but certainly in, in the, in the
boys space. But the, the keenness to want to
play this game in, in, in girls,in secondary school is enormous.
The, the desire to want to see it played not only by the girls,
but, you know, there's the, there's also the typology of
(17:31):
the, the crusty, the crusty rugby dad who, you know, the
broken nose, who he doesn't havethe son.
He can go and watch play rugby, but he's got these, I don't
know, several daughters and theyare very outspoken critics about
why, you know, why isn't there somewhere where my daughter can
play rugby a bit more. Now there are obviously a lot of
fifteens developments going on in clubs but again, it sevens
(17:55):
needs to be coordinate, coordinated because it's an
Olympic sport. I mean it's here and it's going
to be in Los Angeles in 28, it is going to be here in 32 in
Brisbane. So we've got, you know, the
next, you know what have many years that is 7 or 8 years to do
something really good, you know,and and it's with with what is a
(18:15):
fabulous product. And Gary, we've seen the rise of
social media, something which isprobably hasn't been overly
prominent in our our youth and growing up, etcetera.
But the last five or ten years it's sort of exploded when it
comes to sport. And we've got things like the
the KO Minis and, you know, the overseas effect, et cetera,
where kids can watch overseas sport and follow overseas teams
(18:38):
and the IPL, et cetera. How important is that within the
sevens realm? And there's been some people in
the sevens arena that have takenoff on social media and sharing
their content. Hmm, well Lion of Maher is
probably the most well well heeled person in that area.
Place for the for the from the United States and placing the
sevens game and and the fifteensgame and she's often quoted with
(19:02):
the millions of followers that she's you know, she's used on
using the platforms, which is great.
You know, I mean, it's good for her and it's good for the game.
But again, let's start to look at a strategy around, you know,
how we, we galvanised our intention around using social
media. Again, can be it's, it's a must,
(19:24):
it's got to be used. But getting good social media
strategies around the conversation that is in our
case, female lead women sevens is really important.
And you know, there, there is a lot of data to suggest that done
well and, and structured well, it can be, you know, an enormous
(19:45):
fill up for, for a game that is trying to be noticed.
I mean, there's so many sevens with international sevens
tournaments around the world, Chris, that people don't hear
about. And that's to your point where
done well, social media and moreformal media as well can can
play a part. And then you think about
(20:07):
corporates, I mean you talked about Aon, you talked about the
the involvement of of corporateswithin the sevens.
Where do you think that corporates should position
themselves and I suppose you know moving forward be behind
the athletes and be behind the leagues and brands etcetera?
Well, I, I think that, that there's a, a wonderful
opportunity to connect educationand, and sevens, particularly in
(20:31):
the sevens, the, the women's sevens space.
It's not to suggest that it wouldn't be relevant in the
men's space, but our focus is on, on the women at the moment.
I mean, if we get it all right, well, I'm happy to, we can start
looking if we've got the resources to look at the male
space, but the female one is, iswhat we're we're looking at the
game there. My experience at Bond was
(20:53):
running sport there was that there is a strong appetite to
link education slash leadership with the sevens game.
And, and I guess what we're looking to do is to speak to
corporate Australia and it may well be, it doesn't have to be,
but it may well be that there are some extremely influential
(21:18):
C-Suite leaders, women running organisations that have a real
affinity for sport. But I think at times it's, it's
as much about their affinity forsport because they can see that
with that affinity, the athletesthat emerge, in this case female
athletes emerge, can come into the leadership space very, very
(21:40):
clearly. So it's almost like you, you
walk through the sevens door as a, as a female athlete and you
get exposed to the corporate world where influential women
running the, the corporate Australia.
And there are lots of them and there's and there's and there's
so many, you know, extremely impressive and capable CE OS and
(22:07):
running these companies that I think they would see an appeal
in having an alliance, a strong alliance with a player playing
at A at a, a top level in sevensin a, you know, professional
national tournament, for example, which is what we're
looking to do. So yeah, that education link
with with sevens and girls, it'sextremely strong.
(22:29):
Gary, you talked about the the National League and the ideation
of that where's, where's your Nirvana leading up into the
Olympics, I suppose over the coming years?
It's probably best we're described as we're looking to
put together or to seek interestand and and investment.
We we're we're well down the track.
(22:50):
It's but the what to answer yourquestion, we'd be look, we're
looking to put together a professional sevens female
sevens circuit in Australia and,and basically become a strong
female sevens place to be, ultimately linking with the, the
(23:11):
various international tournaments that are around the
world at the moment. But again, all uncoordinated,
all pretty much saying the same things that I'm saying here in
Australia, that this is a great product that needs galvanising.
So we're, we're looking to try to get a sevens tournament for a
professional tournament up and running in 26.
(23:32):
And, and that would be, you know, in the sevens window
about, you know, in the October,November window at the moment.
And that would be, there's a couple of ways that that that
model can look and it could, it could be private investment with
the franchises themselves. The interesting thing about
sevens is it's not the massive beast that Fifteens is.
(23:54):
It's fewer people. It's, it's, it's a product that
can move easily. We've looked and had many
conversations. It's it's a product that can
move into the metro areas of Australia, the capital cities,
but it's just as adaptable to some of the big regional areas
where there is enormous interestwith for investment from some of
(24:17):
the agricultural areas of of of Australia.
And ironically, many of the the best players that have played
for the Australian women's sevenside and 1 medals have come from
regional areas. And that's that's, you know,
that's obviously changing, but but it's still a very prominent
(24:39):
argument. So we're looking to put that a
tournament of that ilk together in 26.
And this is an opportunity for to make to have professional
female sevens players and then linking them with the world,
with the world circuit as well down the track.
But we're just as in conscious of doing the development that's
(25:01):
required under it, Chris. So that university's
competition, a university's competition, not not unlike we
had with Aon 10 years ago, wouldbe part of the pathway.
So that you've got universities with sevens programmes like we
had really with players playing in it and that those those
(25:24):
programmes being of high qualityand then obviously moving,
making the move if they're good enough to be able to come into
the professional ranks. So we're trying to keep it
linear, make it quality, and, you know, if we get the
investment, we'll do it really well.
Well, I see a huge opportunity for for corporates or even
someone like the Larry's of the world that comes in and and.
(25:47):
Happy to talk to Larry if he wants to.
I think he's done a great job or.
Even even the wall of my capitalwith the WNBL now.
Yeah, that's right. And into that, yeah.
Et cetera, because there's huge mental health benefits.
But I was just thinking out aloud there and what you're
saying about the regional areas.But the, the creating a league
or creating a pathway for for girls to go up and to become
professionals should or potentially will unblock a huge
(26:10):
talent pool, a liquidity talent pool, which will then rise up
into, you know, make Australia, you know, ultimately very
competitive at the global stage is what leading up to the
Olympics, right? 100% And at the moment, the, the
conversation is that the Olympics is there and you know,
(26:31):
for 28 and 32, the, the sport ofsevens will be there.
But as you'll be well aware, and, and so would many people
listening to this, that there's been a, a real shift and change
in the way the, the, the OlympicCommittee looks at sport.
And we've had some, I'm not necessarily overly miffed by the
(26:55):
fact that we've got some of the new sports coming in or some of
the new activities coming in. So there's a change there.
I mean, the, the reality is rugby has a sport called sevens
that is an Olympic sport. It's there right now, whereas
other sports are, are, are dyingto become an Olympic sport.
So, you know, I, I would hate tosee a situation where we, we
(27:20):
waste what is a considerable opportunity for again, girls to
be able to one day if they're good enough.
I mean, many are called and few are chosen, but at the end of
the day there is an opportunity to to win an Olympic gold medal
in sevens at the next two Olympic Games.
And I know, I know the the coaches and the people involved
(27:42):
at Rugby Australia in the sevensspace.
You know, I'm very interested inthe work we're trying to do and
they're working extremely hard. But at the moment without a real
structure underneath what they do.
And that's what we have to do. We have to get the structures
and tell the conversation. Yeah, I think that's critical,
(28:04):
as you mentioned, as the people are playing as teenagers going,
oh, this is great, this is really good fun.
Oh, there's not much of A pathway there.
When you hit 17 or 16, you're like, oh, that's I'll just quit
and do go to uni or whatever, basketball or something,
because, you know, basketball has been elevated, et cetera.
But getting that right at the school level, getting that right
in the league and a professional, yeah, as I said,
keeps people in the game. There's so many benefits to
(28:26):
keeping people in playing sport and, and I've heard through
various different people the drop offs of particular girls
around that sort of after schoollevel is quite high even in even
in things like basketball. And this could fill a gap,
right? Yeah, absolutely right.
And, you know, I was fortunate enough to witness that, that
very, I suppose that, that, that, that period when, when I
(28:47):
was at the university and dealing with girls of, of, of
that, you know, having girls in at the university and, and, and
what the Aeon Sevens did. I mean, it's still today the
only national sevens, anything that, that, that existed in
sevens and that was in a very specific university space.
(29:09):
And it galvanised a lot of interest.
There were, I can only speak from my experience with that,
with that competition, but also listening to colleagues in
similar roles in the other universities.
When we were running it, there were lots of girls who came out
of many other sports that and that's pretty much the story of
(29:30):
sevens with women around the world.
They're attracted from other sports, be it touch we've
mentioned before, but overseas in the United States where, you
know, it's booming. The girls come, the girls over
there come from many, many sports, lacrosse.
And this what's happening is, isthat unless there's a, a, a
(29:52):
national programme and, or schools and universities or
programmes underneath it, those that are charged with coaching
these international teams that go to the Olympics or playing
the HSBC, they're generally cherry picking the athletes and
then teaching them how to play the game.
And it's fortunate that around the world there's some very,
(30:13):
very good coaches, you know, that can do that.
I mean the, the, the, the numberof the number of excellent
people and coaching in just in Australia that are sitting
around if they haven't gone overseas taking their expertise.
I mean we, we, we just have to create an environment to bring
(30:34):
that all together. And the relationship with the
the 15 game, the rugby union, the the bodies itself as a
product and you've got ex Wallabies and Mollaroos et
cetera. Is it an important piece for
some of those ex players or current players to be an
ambassador for sevens as well? Or is it you feel like it's a
little bit of a us and them? No, no, I think that's the story
(30:58):
of the game at the moment and itcould well be what happens if we
don't get the Sevens programmes together that will be will be
based. I mean when Sevens started you
you'd remember when the Hong Kong Sevens began again, a male
event many years ago. David Campisi, Tim Horan.
(31:19):
I'm going to forget a lot of guys.
They were basically cherry picked out of the fifteens
environment because there was there was this competition going
on in Hong Kong that looked pretty good.
The elders, I mean some outstanding glitterati from
Australian rugby played sevens and but they were pulled out of
(31:39):
15's programmes. Now to your question, should
there be connectivity with both?Absolutely.
And and there are a lot of the girls at the moment, you know,
several of the the seven's girls, the current sevens girls
are, are obviously going across to play fifteens for the Women's
World Cup. And that's what's happening
(32:01):
around the world at the moment, which is challenging the the
longevity of some of the sevens programmes that have had
investment. So the sevens and fifteens game
have sort of got to work out, you know, where they want to,
where they want to, where and how they want to work in the
cosmos. And that's just administrators
and, and, and people with visionsitting down and saying, what
(32:24):
are we going to do? Funding seems to be the issue in
many ways. The first thing to go in order
to keep the Fifteens alive is you, you know, is off in the
sevens And which I understand isthat, you know, there's P&L
pressures with, with sporting organisations everywhere.
But, but we've got to turn that around because Sevens is a
(32:49):
magnificent development tool in the game, you know, and, and if
we can start talking a bit more confidently about using it as a
development tool, which would help not only sevens but
Fifteens, then we're hanging on to an Olympic product and
developing it properly so that those that choose to play
Fifteens play fifteens and thosethat want to play Sevens can
(33:12):
play it and enjoy, if they're good enough, the same ride that
a fifteens player can. Yeah, absolutely.
Gary, I'm just going to hone on you in for a second and let's
focus on Gary near Sephora. And the chat about sevens has
been been fabulous and really insightful around the the
future. But I'm curious to know there's
a couple of questions I asked myguests. 1 is your your favourite
all time sporting moment? Look, it's, it's probably not
(33:37):
going to surprise you. It, it was the 2003 World Cup.
I, I managed to, I don't know how, but we managed to secure 2
tickets to the final. We got it in the drawer so I
nearly fell over. Anyway, we, we found the money
to pay for those and enjoyed that.
I mean, that's one of the great,you know, rugby events which
(33:58):
people who will remember and Wilkinson's goal of field goal
and Elton Flatley having, you know, an amazing number of kicks
to keep the guy people in the game.
And I keep the the, the Aussies in the game.
So yeah, there's the, that's probably the one I did have to
think I've been lucky to go to, to quite a few.
But that one's the, that one's the stand out.
(34:18):
Yeah, it was the the wrong side of Ledger, but a cracking game.
And I was sort of similar with the the the AFL grand final that
I went to as a Lions fan against.
Yeah, lost, lost by 4 points, son along and it was a bucket
list thing to do. But and Gary, your scoreboard
moment, which is a moment in your life where it's pretty
visceral. It's something you go, I
remember that so clearly. And then from that, something,
(34:40):
something in your life changed. Yeah, I think it's probably a
bit of a shared experience as a father.
My son Harry was played for Australia for several years at
the at the Junior Wallabies level.
He had three years and. And I think, yeah, I really had
to sit down and think about. But I think when you talk about,
(35:00):
you know, great moments where you, you, you've been a dad or
you've, you've seen your children come through and do
things. And obviously, yes, it was
another rugby related one. I think him getting selected and
playing overseas in these big under 20s tournaments was when
my wife and I went along and, you know, and, and, and watched
(35:22):
they're, they're good moments. Yeah, fabulous.
And Gary, we've got a new segment which is from our
friends at Swiftx who are powering scoreboard.
It's called the The Bucket List.What is your ultimate venue or
or events in sport that you would love to attend?
I think 3 weeks at the Tour de France would probably do me
pretty well, Chris Yeah, yeah. But also, I when I was when I
(35:48):
was backpacking around a millionyears ago, I did actually catch
one leg of it in, in Paris when they had the prologue, which is
where they ride around the streets.
And I probably didn't appreciateit back then that I happened to
coincide with a with an event. But yeah, I think now drinking a
(36:09):
little bit of wine and driving around France and watching these
guys, I mean, you only get them that they come past and, you
know, 10 seconds the, the peloton's gone past you.
But it just seems to look like apretty good place.
The thing I'd like to do? Yeah, no, you see it on the TV,
you see all the images and you're like, oh wow, actually
that looks pretty amazing to getto.
(36:30):
But thank you, Gary, thank you so much for being part of the
Scoreboard, the podcast today. I really do appreciate your your
views and insights into rugby asit's been your entire life, but
also the emerging women's game in sevens, as you mentioned, and
the pathways and structures and programmes that you're building
behind the scenes. And obviously if there's any
sponsors or any investors out there that are interested in the
(36:51):
game, that should reach out to you directly.
I wish you all the best in in the programme and all the things
that you're doing in Women's Sevens and looking forward to
keeping in touch, following yourprogress and supporting you
where I can. Yes, thanks very much for the
opportunity to chat about it, Chris.
And, and congratulations to you and your podcast.
I think what you're doing is extremely valuable and and I
(37:13):
yeah, it's great to be involved today.
Hi, it's Chris Titley here. And on today's episode of School
Board of the podcast, I'm joinedby Gary Nisifora.
Gary, thank you so much for being part of this series.
It's a pleasure to be here, Chris.
Thank you. We're sitting here on Wednesday
the 2nd of July, a very important day for Queensland
rugby as the British and Irish Lions make their way into
Suncorp Stadium tonight. How are you?
(00:21):
What are you thinking about thatall, Gary?
Well, it's obviously very exciting for for rugby in
Australia and as it turns out, Ionly recently secured a ticket.
So I'm actually they're pretty hard to get.
They are like hens teeth. But looking forward to it.
And yeah, it's a fairly significant game.
I can actually, I was actually there when they last, I was
(00:44):
actually at the game as a youngster in 1971 when they beat
them at Ballymore. So I'm showing my age, but it's
quite exciting to close the loop.
Yes, no indeed. I think David Hanham from the
the Reds talked about that moment and that though I think
they'll caught off guard slightly the lines around
Queensland. Oh, that should be a walkover.
But we'll we shall see what happens tonight and and I'm sure
(01:06):
this podcast will be will age intime and there'll be a good
game. Gary, your involvement in rugby
dates back a long way. Can you talk about your
involvement in rugby? Well, obviously I've played the
game as a youngster. I, I continued in association
with it beyond high school into club rugby, played at Queensland
(01:30):
University. My family's got a long
association with, with the club.My brothers played there as
well. And I basically went into
coaching sort of in in my early sort of 20s once I'd finished
playing rugby and coaching was avery big part of it.
(01:50):
And I continued involved my involvement with schoolboy
coaching and 1st fifteens in Queensland schools and
Australian school sides and really enjoyed that phase of my
life. And then stayed in that sort of
education rugby space and then moved into professional rugby.
(02:11):
And I was team manager of the Reds for several years in
professional rugby, which has been a wonderful launching pad
for a lot of the stuff I'm doingnow, not only in rugby, but in,
in lots of different sports in the business.
And I'm I continue to remain close to the game and and have a
particular interest in the development of of women's sevens
(02:35):
at the moment. Gary, your relationship with
rugby, do you remember the earlydays when you started figuring
out the game, what it was like, what it was like to play, what
it was like to coach and has that changed over time?
I think I was lucky that I, I managed to have a lot of really,
really good coaches and influential people along the
(02:56):
way. And I think they certainly
shaped a lot of the things that I did as a coach and, and, and
then into administration and sports leadership.
And yes, guys like Alec Evans, who was a big part of life for
me as a youngster at, at my school of prison grammar.
(03:19):
And, and Alex still plays a verybig part in a lot of people's
lives. He's quite elderly now, but was,
was a, was a well respected leader and influencer in a lot
of people's lives, including my own with, with coaching.
But yes, I think you know, you, you, you take the, you cherry
(03:40):
pick the good things and you hang on to them and you take
them forward and you hope that you can, you know, convey what's
valuable to people that you are fortunate to have contact with
in coaching and, and in rugby. Gary, what is it about the game
of rugby union that you love themost?
And I suppose in terms of like where you've really find
(04:01):
happiness and joy. Well, it's a very holistic
question, that one certainly forfor me, it's been enjoying it at
all the levels I've been fortunate enough to play it,
coach it, be involved in it at clubs and universities, in, in,
(04:21):
in the professional arena as well.
It's it's internationality is both at times its greatest
strength and its greatest weakness.
The fact that we it is such a tremendous game, but but in
different pockets of the world right now, you know, it's, it's,
(04:43):
it's efficacy varies so much depending on what hemisphere
you're in, what country and those hemispheres you're in.
You know, and I guess tonight the the game which you referred
earlier, the Queensland game versus the Lions, it's certainly
a I guess it's a little bit of aline in the sand where where
(05:04):
people who will be there at thatgame will see, at least at the
moment, arguably the best of what is happening in the
northern hemisphere against certainly a burgeoning, you
know, young Queensland side, which represents the whole
conversation about where rugby is in the country that we're
trying to basically re emerge asit were.
(05:25):
So yeah, it's, it's a just an, it's an interesting game to be
around. It can be very frustrating at
times because we have such, it is such a great product, but
it's exciting being around its development now with the, you
know, the women's game in sevensand fifteens has really emerged.
And I think we've got to make some decisions about what we
(05:46):
want to, where we want to focus our energies to get the best
return on our investment, which is good for the guy.
Yeah, Gary, interesting point around the sevens there and, and
I was, I was chatting to to David yesterday around cricket's
involvement in T20 at a global level.
It's a different product and, and, and a lot of sports have
their different products. You got like for instance, the
(06:07):
league has their origin, the AFLobviously has their grand final,
but it's not so global as you mentioned, you know, strengths
and weaknesses of being being global.
I'm curious to know your, you know, your involvement in
Sevens, the product that is Sevens that has been around for
a very long time, the ups and downs of it all and where you
see the future. Well, the first involvement that
(06:29):
I had with the Sevens was when Iwas working at Bond University.
I was the Exec Director of Sportthere for about 7 and a bit
years and had a fabulous time atthe university building the
sport programme from pretty muchGround Zero and one of the focus
areas during that time we brought into the rugby programme
(06:50):
that was there. We were instrumental in
developing what was to be known as the AEON Women's University
Sevens Competition. And it was an initiative which I
guess we drove at the universitycombined with Uni Sport and with
with Rugby Australia. And it was put together very,
(07:14):
very quickly, very well off the back of what was happening
around the 2016 success of the, the Australian women's side,
winning the gold medal at Rio. And although that was a great
thing that happened, a tremendous thing, the danger was
that if they by winning it people they can't return to
(07:37):
Australia. And there was no, there was no
structures. And so we were the Ion Sevens
was instrumental in creating that structure and it was highly
successful, played women's only competition, played by 8
universities from all around Australia, stretching across
from WA all the way to the East Coast, SA, Melbourne, all of
(08:00):
that. And it went for about two or
three years and then has then morphed into a slightly, you
know, different format with academies and that in the
states, primarily of NSW and Queensland taking over the the
bulk of what was the Aeon Sevens.
And look, I guess it was that and then the, you know, the
(08:23):
subsequent development of HSBC, the world tournament with which
of course is men and women. But the women's game in sevens
is, is an extremely high poweredand excellent sporting contest,
which meets all of the, the current demands of, of I guess
(08:44):
the sporting appetite these days.
You mentioned the T20 and you know, you, you could certainly
draw parallels to the fact that,you know, the sevens is the T20
of, of rugby and the way that people are consuming sport these
days, a fifteens game is, you know, obviously a different sort
(09:05):
of vehicle. It's for the purists, the tech,
the technicalities of the game, the English designed the game.
So it's, it's naturally going tobe somewhat complex and, and,
and you know, full of officialdoms blowing whistles
and stopping games and controlling things.
Whereas the sevens game is a, isa, is a completely different
(09:28):
product. That's, you know, that's for,
for today. And the women's game, which a
group that I'm leading is focusing on is particularly the
the product of most, most appeal.
So I think that, you know, the game itself is is evolving.
(09:48):
It's not evolving. All boats are not rising on the
tide as they should. Some parts of the game are
moving in a different direction from others.
Some are being left behind. Match officialdom, for example,
needs to be given a much greaterfocus.
It's extremely important. You can't have a game of
fifteens or sevens or anything if you don't have somebody
(10:11):
who's, you know, competent and capable and keen and interested
to blow a whistle in the fifteens game.
It's incredibly complex game forofficialdom, whereas the sevens
game is is less so. And that that makes it again, on
the officialdom side, much more appealing.
So yeah, it's a universal conversation.
(10:31):
I was having a chat to my formerneighbour who who runs a, a
sports programme at a high school the other day.
And he was talking about the, the, why basketball is so
popular as a, as a grassroots sport.
And he was saying along the lines of that you, you know,
you're always in the game as opposed to you can't really hide
or cricket, you might bat #8 andnot get a bat.
(10:52):
Soccer, you might be a goalkeeper and the team wins 10
nil and you don't get a look in.It's fast, it's furious, it's
indoors, it's mixed. It's, you know, you can have a
break, you can have a breather. You know all those attributes
apart from the weather, I suppose a little bit the sevens,
but apart from those attributes,if you're playing sevens you
can't have, you can't have a breather, you can't sort of sort
of be on the sidelines. You're in the game, you're
(11:13):
always part of a team and it's always fast paced.
Are you seeing those attributes resonate to a junior grassroots
level? 100% someone in broadcast with
whom we've been dealing in our group said that the broadcast or
indeed spectators, which I guessis 1 and the same really games
(11:35):
with consequence are the most engaging.
And by that for television and broadcast, it means that to make
it exciting and a product you try to minimise the, the amount
of downtime or lack of involvement like you were
referring to in certain positions.
I'd agree with you with basketball, it's it was probably
(11:57):
one of the earlier games in Australia that when it did come
in, it was, it was met with some, oh, you know, that's the
game, the United States and all the Pzazz and all of that.
But when it was in its early halcyon iteration, it was
extremely popular. It went through a bit of a down
period and it's been Larry Kesselman has controlled the
(12:18):
competition and owns it and has done a magnificent job in
resurrecting it. With sevens, yes, it absolutely
does have the parallel, the consequences that you in sevens
you have to make quick decisions.
You don't have the luxury of making a mistake and saying,
well, I've got another 70 minutes to make up for that.
(12:39):
And, and people who coach sevensand will our group's lucky
enough to have several people involved from the highest level
to be able to endorse this remark, say that good sevens
players make good fifteens players, but they make excellent
fifteens players because they'regood at making decisions
quickly. They're aware of the consequence
(13:00):
of making a poor decision because there isn't the time.
And suddenly all the world's come together that makes
spectators happy, players happy,coaches happy, broadcast happy,
and suddenly you've got a product that is an Olympic
product that people are saying, wow, this is great, why don't we
(13:22):
see it more? And that's kind of why I'm doing
what I'm doing. Yeah, Gary, you touched on the
Olympics there. I mean, a person on the street
might, might think that that sevens rugby is not an Olympic
sport, even though we have had success.
What what can we do I suppose toget a, get the message out there
that it is an Olympic sport. There is a medal up for grabs
and we've got Brisbane coming upas well.
(13:43):
Yeah, there's a, there's a very well worn phrase running around
that if you can't see it, you can't be it.
And I know that's something that, and quite justifiably, a
lot of women's sports, you know,often use and refer to basically
send the flare up to say, Hey, look over here, this is what
we've got. And what do we, what do we do
(14:08):
about to your question, what do we do about it?
Well, you create an environment where there is frequency that
where I, I guess I'll, I'll stayon my theme of because we're
working in the female space withyoung girls.
We're young girls can see the game being played at the moment
in Australia. The only time that you can see
(14:30):
an international high level event in sevens is, is is the
HSBC tournament in, in Perth, which comes once a year.
I, I, I've said often that sevens is like a comet, a comet,
a comet. It basically you know it's
coming when it's here. It burns really brightly and
(14:53):
everybody's excited about it andthen it disappears as fast as it
arrived. And what we've got to do is, is
address this, this comet syndrome with sevens.
There's a lot of people that have been doing a lot of work in
sevens over many years in their own spaces off the back of
clubs. And there's been some really,
really good tournaments. And I've spoken to many of the
(15:15):
organisers in the course of this, but it's not coordinated.
And, and as a result, if it's not coordinated, then there's no
galvanization of a central purpose.
And so therefore there's no tournaments that are seen on a
regular basis. So if we can grab hold of this
Olympic comet, put a, you know, galvanised all of these people
(15:40):
together and there are lots of them, and then put a really,
really high excellent product together in, in schools,
universities and, and then provide a professional space,
which is what we're looking to do.
You'll have that. You'll have that question
answered. And and Gary, you mentioned
around the schools there, I meantouch footy is a thing and
(16:03):
there's lots of touch competitions and there might be
some parallels between touch andseven square.
Does that fit in the mix? Is either complementary or I
suppose a pathway for some people?
Yeah, I think, I think you, you search touch is it has been a
great foundation for again, withthe contacts we've got in, in
the women's space. That's where many of the the the
(16:25):
female players, the girls have come from.
And it's a, you know, it's an excellent sport for developing.
You can see the, the linear development of someone playing
touch and then moving into the contact sphere of of of sevens.
So let's not, let's not sort of make these opposing arguments.
(16:46):
Let's sit down and work togetheron what's, you know, let's make
what's already good better and then create a, you know, as I
said, create a pathway or a, youknow, galvanised people into a
sense of purpose. I, I can tell you, Chris, the,
I've been working on this for many, many years now.
And the, in the, in the school space, which is a space where
(17:08):
I've had a lot to, you know, I've worked for many years and
not in the female space, but certainly in, in the, in the
boys space. But the, the keenness to want to
play this game in, in, in girls,in secondary school is enormous.
The, the desire to want to see it played not only by the girls,
but, you know, there's the, there's also the typology of
(17:31):
the, the crusty, the crusty rugby dad who, you know, the
broken nose, who he doesn't havethe son.
He can go and watch play rugby, but he's got these, I don't
know, several daughters and theyare very outspoken critics about
why, you know, why isn't there somewhere where my daughter can
play rugby a bit more. Now there are obviously a lot of
fifteens developments going on in clubs but again, it sevens
(17:55):
needs to be coordinate, coordinated because it's an
Olympic sport. I mean it's here and it's going
to be in Los Angeles in 28, it is going to be here in 32 in
Brisbane. So we've got, you know, the
next, you know what have many years that is 7 or 8 years to do
something really good, you know,and and it's with with what is a
(18:15):
fabulous product. And Gary, we've seen the rise of
social media, something which isprobably hasn't been overly
prominent in our our youth and growing up, etcetera.
But the last five or ten years it's sort of exploded when it
comes to sport. And we've got things like the
the KO Minis and, you know, the overseas effect, et cetera,
where kids can watch overseas sport and follow overseas teams
(18:38):
and the IPL, et cetera. How important is that within the
sevens realm? And there's been some people in
the sevens arena that have takenoff on social media and sharing
their content. Hmm, well Lion of Maher is
probably the most well well heeled person in that area.
Place for the for the from the United States and placing the
sevens game and and the fifteensgame and she's often quoted with
(19:02):
the millions of followers that she's you know, she's used on
using the platforms, which is great.
You know, I mean, it's good for her and it's good for the game.
But again, let's start to look at a strategy around, you know,
how we, we galvanised our intention around using social
media. Again, can be it's, it's a must,
(19:24):
it's got to be used. But getting good social media
strategies around the conversation that is in our
case, female lead women sevens is really important.
And you know, there, there is a lot of data to suggest that done
well and, and structured well, it can be, you know, an enormous
(19:45):
fill up for, for a game that is trying to be noticed.
I mean, there's so many sevens with international sevens
tournaments around the world, Chris, that people don't hear
about. And that's to your point where
done well, social media and moreformal media as well can can
play a part. And then you think about
(20:07):
corporates, I mean you talked about Aon, you talked about the
the involvement of of corporateswithin the sevens.
Where do you think that corporates should position
themselves and I suppose you know moving forward be behind
the athletes and be behind the leagues and brands etcetera?
Well, I, I think that, that there's a, a wonderful
opportunity to connect educationand, and sevens, particularly in
(20:31):
the sevens, the, the women's sevens space.
It's not to suggest that it wouldn't be relevant in the
men's space, but our focus is on, on the women at the moment.
I mean, if we get it all right, well, I'm happy to, we can start
looking if we've got the resources to look at the male
space, but the female one is, iswhat we're we're looking at the
game there. My experience at Bond was
(20:53):
running sport there was that there is a strong appetite to
link education slash leadership with the sevens game.
And, and I guess what we're looking to do is to speak to
corporate Australia and it may well be, it doesn't have to be,
but it may well be that there are some extremely influential
(21:18):
C-Suite leaders, women running organisations that have a real
affinity for sport. But I think at times it's, it's
as much about their affinity forsport because they can see that
with that affinity, the athletesthat emerge, in this case female
athletes emerge, can come into the leadership space very, very
(21:40):
clearly. So it's almost like you, you
walk through the sevens door as a, as a female athlete and you
get exposed to the corporate world where influential women
running the, the corporate Australia.
And there are lots of them and there's and there's and there's
so many, you know, extremely impressive and capable CE OS and
(22:07):
running these companies that I think they would see an appeal
in having an alliance, a strong alliance with a player playing
at A at a, a top level in sevensin a, you know, professional
national tournament, for example, which is what we're
looking to do. So yeah, that education link
with with sevens and girls, it'sextremely strong.
(22:29):
Gary, you talked about the the National League and the ideation
of that where's, where's your Nirvana leading up into the
Olympics, I suppose over the coming years?
It's probably best we're described as we're looking to
put together or to seek interestand and and investment.
We we're we're well down the track.
(22:50):
It's but the what to answer yourquestion, we'd be look, we're
looking to put together a professional sevens female
sevens circuit in Australia and,and basically become a strong
female sevens place to be, ultimately linking with the, the
(23:11):
various international tournaments that are around the
world at the moment. But again, all uncoordinated,
all pretty much saying the same things that I'm saying here in
Australia, that this is a great product that needs galvanising.
So we're, we're looking to try to get a sevens tournament for a
professional tournament up and running in 26.
(23:32):
And, and that would be, you know, in the sevens window
about, you know, in the October,November window at the moment.
And that would be, there's a couple of ways that that that
model can look and it could, it could be private investment with
the franchises themselves. The interesting thing about
sevens is it's not the massive beast that Fifteens is.
(23:54):
It's fewer people. It's, it's, it's a product that
can move easily. We've looked and had many
conversations. It's it's a product that can
move into the metro areas of Australia, the capital cities,
but it's just as adaptable to some of the big regional areas
where there is enormous interestwith for investment from some of
(24:17):
the agricultural areas of of of Australia.
And ironically, many of the the best players that have played
for the Australian women's sevenside and 1 medals have come from
regional areas. And that's that's, you know,
that's obviously changing, but but it's still a very prominent
(24:39):
argument. So we're looking to put that a
tournament of that ilk together in 26.
And this is an opportunity for to make to have professional
female sevens players and then linking them with the world,
with the world circuit as well down the track.
But we're just as in conscious of doing the development that's
(25:01):
required under it, Chris. So that university's
competition, a university's competition, not not unlike we
had with Aon 10 years ago, wouldbe part of the pathway.
So that you've got universities with sevens programmes like we
had really with players playing in it and that those those
(25:24):
programmes being of high qualityand then obviously moving,
making the move if they're good enough to be able to come into
the professional ranks. So we're trying to keep it
linear, make it quality, and, you know, if we get the
investment, we'll do it really well.
Well, I see a huge opportunity for for corporates or even
someone like the Larry's of the world that comes in and and.
(25:47):
Happy to talk to Larry if he wants to.
I think he's done a great job or.
Even even the wall of my capitalwith the WNBL now.
Yeah, that's right. And into that, yeah.
Et cetera, because there's huge mental health benefits.
But I was just thinking out aloud there and what you're
saying about the regional areas.But the, the creating a league
or creating a pathway for for girls to go up and to become
professionals should or potentially will unblock a huge
(26:10):
talent pool, a liquidity talent pool, which will then rise up
into, you know, make Australia, you know, ultimately very
competitive at the global stage is what leading up to the
Olympics, right? 100% And at the moment, the, the
conversation is that the Olympics is there and you know,
(26:31):
for 28 and 32, the, the sport ofsevens will be there.
But as you'll be well aware, and, and so would many people
listening to this, that there's been a, a real shift and change
in the way the, the, the OlympicCommittee looks at sport.
And we've had some, I'm not necessarily overly miffed by the
(26:55):
fact that we've got some of the new sports coming in or some of
the new activities coming in. So there's a change there.
I mean, the, the reality is rugby has a sport called sevens
that is an Olympic sport. It's there right now, whereas
other sports are, are, are dyingto become an Olympic sport.
So, you know, I, I would hate tosee a situation where we, we
(27:20):
waste what is a considerable opportunity for again, girls to
be able to one day if they're good enough.
I mean, many are called and few are chosen, but at the end of
the day there is an opportunity to to win an Olympic gold medal
in sevens at the next two Olympic Games.
And I know, I know the the coaches and the people involved
(27:42):
at Rugby Australia in the sevensspace.
You know, I'm very interested inthe work we're trying to do and
they're working extremely hard. But at the moment without a real
structure underneath what they do.
And that's what we have to do. We have to get the structures
and tell the conversation. Yeah, I think that's critical,
(28:04):
as you mentioned, as the people are playing as teenagers going,
oh, this is great, this is really good fun.
Oh, there's not much of A pathway there.
When you hit 17 or 16, you're like, oh, that's I'll just quit
and do go to uni or whatever, basketball or something,
because, you know, basketball has been elevated, et cetera.
But getting that right at the school level, getting that right
in the league and a professional, yeah, as I said,
keeps people in the game. There's so many benefits to
(28:26):
keeping people in playing sport and, and I've heard through
various different people the drop offs of particular girls
around that sort of after schoollevel is quite high even in even
in things like basketball. And this could fill a gap,
right? Yeah, absolutely right.
And, you know, I was fortunate enough to witness that, that
very, I suppose that, that, that, that period when, when I
(28:47):
was at the university and dealing with girls of, of, of
that, you know, having girls in at the university and, and, and
what the Aeon Sevens did. I mean, it's still today the
only national sevens, anything that, that, that existed in
sevens and that was in a very specific university space.
(29:09):
And it galvanised a lot of interest.
There were, I can only speak from my experience with that,
with that competition, but also listening to colleagues in
similar roles in the other universities.
When we were running it, there were lots of girls who came out
of many other sports that and that's pretty much the story of
(29:30):
sevens with women around the world.
They're attracted from other sports, be it touch we've
mentioned before, but overseas in the United States where, you
know, it's booming. The girls come, the girls over
there come from many, many sports, lacrosse.
And this what's happening is, isthat unless there's a, a, a
(29:52):
national programme and, or schools and universities or
programmes underneath it, those that are charged with coaching
these international teams that go to the Olympics or playing
the HSBC, they're generally cherry picking the athletes and
then teaching them how to play the game.
And it's fortunate that around the world there's some very,
(30:13):
very good coaches, you know, that can do that.
I mean the, the, the, the numberof the number of excellent
people and coaching in just in Australia that are sitting
around if they haven't gone overseas taking their expertise.
I mean we, we, we just have to create an environment to bring
(30:34):
that all together. And the relationship with the
the 15 game, the rugby union, the the bodies itself as a
product and you've got ex Wallabies and Mollaroos et
cetera. Is it an important piece for
some of those ex players or current players to be an
ambassador for sevens as well? Or is it you feel like it's a
little bit of a us and them? No, no, I think that's the story
(30:58):
of the game at the moment and itcould well be what happens if we
don't get the Sevens programmes together that will be will be
based. I mean when Sevens started you
you'd remember when the Hong Kong Sevens began again, a male
event many years ago. David Campisi, Tim Horan.
(31:19):
I'm going to forget a lot of guys.
They were basically cherry picked out of the fifteens
environment because there was there was this competition going
on in Hong Kong that looked pretty good.
The elders, I mean some outstanding glitterati from
Australian rugby played sevens and but they were pulled out of
(31:39):
15's programmes. Now to your question, should
there be connectivity with both?Absolutely.
And and there are a lot of the girls at the moment, you know,
several of the the seven's girls, the current sevens girls
are, are obviously going across to play fifteens for the Women's
World Cup. And that's what's happening
(32:01):
around the world at the moment, which is challenging the the
longevity of some of the sevens programmes that have had
investment. So the sevens and fifteens game
have sort of got to work out, you know, where they want to,
where they want to, where and how they want to work in the
cosmos. And that's just administrators
and, and, and people with visionsitting down and saying, what
(32:24):
are we going to do? Funding seems to be the issue in
many ways. The first thing to go in order
to keep the Fifteens alive is you, you know, is off in the
sevens And which I understand isthat, you know, there's P&L
pressures with, with sporting organisations everywhere.
But, but we've got to turn that around because Sevens is a
(32:49):
magnificent development tool in the game, you know, and, and if
we can start talking a bit more confidently about using it as a
development tool, which would help not only sevens but
Fifteens, then we're hanging on to an Olympic product and
developing it properly so that those that choose to play
Fifteens play fifteens and thosethat want to play Sevens can
(33:12):
play it and enjoy, if they're good enough, the same ride that
a fifteens player can. Yeah, absolutely.
Gary, I'm just going to hone on you in for a second and let's
focus on Gary near Sephora. And the chat about sevens has
been been fabulous and really insightful around the the
future. But I'm curious to know there's
a couple of questions I asked myguests. 1 is your your favourite
all time sporting moment? Look, it's, it's probably not
(33:37):
going to surprise you. It, it was the 2003 World Cup.
I, I managed to, I don't know how, but we managed to secure 2
tickets to the final. We got it in the drawer so I
nearly fell over. Anyway, we, we found the money
to pay for those and enjoyed that.
I mean, that's one of the great,you know, rugby events which
(33:58):
people who will remember and Wilkinson's goal of field goal
and Elton Flatley having, you know, an amazing number of kicks
to keep the guy people in the game.
And I keep the the, the Aussies in the game.
So yeah, there's the, that's probably the one I did have to
think I've been lucky to go to, to quite a few.
But that one's the, that one's the stand out.
(34:18):
Yeah, it was the the wrong side of Ledger, but a cracking game.
And I was sort of similar with the the the AFL grand final that
I went to as a Lions fan against.
Yeah, lost, lost by 4 points, son along and it was a bucket
list thing to do. But and Gary, your scoreboard
moment, which is a moment in your life where it's pretty
visceral. It's something you go, I
remember that so clearly. And then from that, something,
(34:40):
something in your life changed. Yeah, I think it's probably a
bit of a shared experience as a father.
My son Harry was played for Australia for several years at
the at the Junior Wallabies level.
He had three years and. And I think, yeah, I really had
to sit down and think about. But I think when you talk about,
(35:00):
you know, great moments where you, you, you've been a dad or
you've, you've seen your children come through and do
things. And obviously, yes, it was
another rugby related one. I think him getting selected and
playing overseas in these big under 20s tournaments was when
my wife and I went along and, you know, and, and, and watched
(35:22):
they're, they're good moments. Yeah, fabulous.
And Gary, we've got a new segment which is from our
friends at Swiftx who are powering scoreboard.
It's called the The Bucket List.What is your ultimate venue or
or events in sport that you would love to attend?
I think 3 weeks at the Tour de France would probably do me
pretty well, Chris Yeah, yeah. But also, I when I was when I
(35:48):
was backpacking around a millionyears ago, I did actually catch
one leg of it in, in Paris when they had the prologue, which is
where they ride around the streets.
And I probably didn't appreciateit back then that I happened to
coincide with a with an event. But yeah, I think now drinking a
(36:09):
little bit of wine and driving around France and watching these
guys, I mean, you only get them that they come past and, you
know, 10 seconds the, the peloton's gone past you.
But it just seems to look like apretty good place.
The thing I'd like to do? Yeah, no, you see it on the TV,
you see all the images and you're like, oh wow, actually
that looks pretty amazing to getto.
(36:30):
But thank you, Gary, thank you so much for being part of the
Scoreboard, the podcast today. I really do appreciate your your
views and insights into rugby asit's been your entire life, but
also the emerging women's game in sevens, as you mentioned, and
the pathways and structures and programmes that you're building
behind the scenes. And obviously if there's any
sponsors or any investors out there that are interested in the
(36:51):
game, that should reach out to you directly.
I wish you all the best in in the programme and all the things
that you're doing in Women's Sevens and looking forward to
keeping in touch, following yourprogress and supporting you
where I can. Yes, thanks very much for the
opportunity to chat about it, Chris.
And, and congratulations to you and your podcast.
I think what you're doing is extremely valuable and and I
(37:13):
yeah, it's great to be involved today.
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