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July 29, 2025 33 mins
TRIGGER WARNING - This episode covers the topic of suicide, so listener discretion is advised.

This is a video episode and you can watch on YouTube at https://youtu.be/1YY1O2NuIqw

This episode continues to explore the unsolved murder of Aileen Printie in 1981 in Edinburgh. Dawn and Marti examine the puzzling details of the case, including a mysterious cufflink, an ice bucket, and conflicting evidence. They discuss various theories and the police's handling of the investigation, which led to a controversial conclusion years later. The episode also highlights the limitations of forensic technology at the time and raises questions about the justice system's approach to cold cases. Throughout, the hosts engage in lively debate, offering insights and speculations that keep listeners intrigued by this baffling crime.

TIMECODES:
0:00 Intro: Recap of Aileen Printie murder case
5:57 DNA advances reopen case, suspect questioned
11:06 Prime suspect found dead, theories explored
16:47 Family accepts police conclusion despite questions
22:26 Anonymous tip about stolen cufflinks emerges
27:35 Lack of conclusive evidence raises doubts
32:14 Modern forensics could have changed outcome

SOURCES:
Please see our website for all source material and photos at https://scottishmurders.com/episodes/aileenprintie/

British Newspaper Archives Affiliate Link

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CREDITS:
Scottish Murders is a production of Cluarantonn
Hosted by Dawn Young & Marti from Mums, Mysteries and Murder
Researched, Written and Produced by Dawn Young
Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is part two of the Alien Printy episode.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
So let's get started, Okay, So then that is it.
That is it. It goes quiet until nineteenth tenth of
February nineteen eighty eight. It's seven years after Alien's murdered.
I just the baffled. They haven't got any further nobody there.
They made another appeal at that point because there's no updates.

(00:26):
They were peeling for more information because and it was
one of the it was a really it wasn't just
a many investigation. It was one of the biggest police
searchers ever mounted, apparently and Lowthian, so they really did
go all out. That interviewed four thousand people, They took
about a thousand statements. But they still didn't know about
the cuff link. They still didn't know who she was

(00:48):
on the phone with that night. They still didn't know
who this man with the ice bucket was. They were
still thinking about the possibility that might be a robbery motive.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
But they needed to pat You do anyone else watch that?

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, it's great, But also one thing, why would they
make I'm just going to get up on my high
house for a second.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Whenever they make thinks about Scotland. They always make it dark.
No one's very attractive. I might be lacing their own here.
Everyone wears brown?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
What's with that?

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Why does that keep happening?

Speaker 5 (01:22):
Anyway, it was a good show. It was very violent.
It's very violent. Yeah, that's good. Anyone else did it?

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Did yous all like it? You have you finished it? Yeah?
It's good. It's a bit longer. Sorry, We've got a
question down the back.

Speaker 6 (01:35):
Whether not any DNY or fingerprint search is done on
the cufflink, because I'm just thinking of your question. Attach
a coufflink's the potential for DNA to have transferred.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
So I'll get to that as well. I know, I know,
I know. The thing is, I'm doing it as later
are burning mind with the public, and I'm kind of
doing it as we nobody knows what's going on. It's
not until later all these things are kind of reveal
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
So I'll get is it going to be one of
those day?

Speaker 5 (02:02):
And I thinks that I felt like in the nineties
because I held on to the Catholic for so long
and then I had the technology and it was all amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yes, that's the my d I love that that happens.
It's arizing, right sorry, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, So, like I said in the tenth Fibruary, the
police were pulling again because they had nothing. They didn't
know what they were where they were going with it.
So three days later it was exciting a little bit
because the Edinburgh Evening News had received an anonymous phone call.
It was from a female and she'd given them important

(02:42):
information regarding Alien's murder. But I don't know what the
important information was, no idea what it was. It was
never revoled where it was, and the police just appealed
again saying we please where you get in touch with
us directly, and they gave the number for the detective.
She never came forward. I don't know what it was about.

(03:02):
I don't know what was passed on, but she never
got back in touch again. So that was another so
we don't know it.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
It's never Why would she tell us that and then
wriped that away? That was really a maaze.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Because it's frustrating, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Is it important?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
What is it? And that is it?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Until nineteen ninety seven?

Speaker 5 (03:21):
I told you the nineties ninety seven, So we're just
that's long down is her.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Mother's still alive at this point, we're supposed still alive.
Brother and sister are still alive. So nineteen ninety seven,
ninth of May, the case is reopened and a man
has been questioned. Oh that's all exciting. So following advances
in DNA, okay, but listen, following advances in DNA technology,

(03:52):
Alien's case is looked at again in an article in
the Scotsman set Technical Technical. Technological breakthroughs with DNA had
allowed forensic scientists to build a profile of the killer
using evidence gathered at the time of the murders. And
remember that, Okay, So they're saying that we've got the
profile of the killer from this DNA that was found

(04:14):
at the scene. Okay, it's important. So they said. It
was reported that a dozen suspects we're all co cooperating
with the place had been questioned. However, they were focusing
specifically on this one man who they've had in for
several hours, but he had been released because they weren't
able to hold him any more than six hours. Okay,

(04:37):
so they've been questioned him. Now I'm not going to
give his name, and you can always look up yourself.
It's all available. But I just because this has gone out,
I'm not going to share that information and you'll find
out maybe why at the end. But he was thirty
two years old in nineteen ninety seven, but back in

(04:58):
ninety eighty one, he was sixteen years ol and he
was a housebreaker. He was known as a housebreaker. Then, okay,
so this man, he's been questioned. He had then been released,
but it was reported that a report had been sent
to the Procerator Fiscal. The police said that there'd been
no charges at the moment the inst but their investigation

(05:21):
was following a definite line of inquiry and that they
were hopeful of getting a warrant for his arrest for
the murder fairly soon. So okay, this all sounds great.
Alien's family they spoke about it and hearing about the
report being sent to the Procurator Fiscal. Her mom, Terresa,
she was then seventy one. She said it brought back
painful memories, which is understandable. Her sister Moira, she hoped

(05:44):
and pray that they succeeded. They got you know, they
got this arrest. And she said that the police must
have something strong on this man, or they just wouldn't
waste her time at this point. So, like I said,
it's all sounding promising until the fourth of August nineteen
ninety seven. That's three months later. Again there's a headline
in The Scotsman and this time it rouls murder suspect

(06:07):
film dead.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
Oh oh, No one expected that in their roin, did they?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
That was very close? I haight when that happens.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, So Alien's family speak again and the the fear
that our killer has just escaped justice.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Had he taken his own life. I'm going to get okay.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Sorry, So they thought the prime suspect, they saw them
as a prime suspect, and he just escaped justice, committed suicide.

(06:51):
They weren't they were They weren't happy about that. It's
so this man, he had been found dead in his
car apparently he drove his card a quiet part of
Edinburgh in the early hours of the twenty fifth of July.
He doused himself in petro and set his body alike.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
And it's a horrible way to take your own life.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Isn't it.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
That is one of the worst wise possible to imagine
your life.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
And it was dead before that.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
Maybe that was a good comment. Someone else has done it.
Because why would you do that when they's easy wise?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
So Aleen's sister, she felt that she was said because sorry,
it was she was. She was really disappointed because it
was like they were finally just about to find out
maybe what had happened that night, what had happened to Alien,
and it was taking taking away. At that point, we
finally were revealed, it was finally revealed what the murder
weapon was, and it was a brick and she's been

(07:55):
beaten to death on the head with that's horrible as well. Yeah, again,
where was this brick? Was it? The back door was broken?
It was it was forced entry. It wasn't a window.
Why is this person carrying a brick with him? Is
it a robber? That his weapon? Yeah, that's good taking

(08:19):
it with him could Yeah that's true.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, maybe it's like a last minute thing and he
just picked it up. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
I know that doesn't really fit, does it. That's what
Let's not forget the ice bucket. He took the bucket
as well.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, so oh sorry question. If you're going to ask
about any sexuals, I'm going to kill you because that's
coming up.

Speaker 7 (08:56):
Just be kind, going to offer a bloody brick and
not have it like we find it spot out of
I don't know, a bunch of bricks if it's covered
in blood.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
But who's actually going to walk away with one?

Speaker 7 (09:09):
It's not easily spotted like carrying one buet, it's in
a nice bucket.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, yeah, So at this point, it was also disclosed
that Alien had had sexual intercourse in the hours before
her death, but there was no signs to suggest that
she was.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Raped, so concentral sex. Okay, so when and who?

Speaker 3 (09:36):
This is getting more and more questions.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Okay, I know. And Alien's mum believed that this man
that took his own life. He felt that she could know, well,
he couldn't cope with the pressure of the police investigation,
and that's why he toook his own life.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Okay, so we think it's him, Does anyone think it's
him at the moment? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Then I lived.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm going to tell you a little bit about him,
because so at the time we killed himself. He died.
He was married with three children, and the Scotsman said
that he suffered from psychological problems. So he had suffered
from psychological problems. He did live close to Alien at
the time of the murder. I don't know whether they

(10:23):
knew each other, but he lived in the vicinity of
where she lived, and he had been questioned at the
time of the murder, and along with two of his
friends after he had been seen drinking near again where
she lived on the night of the murder. But he
lived there, so he's going to be drinking there. He
was known as a prolific housebreaker at the time of

(10:43):
the murder, but he was eily he was questioned. He
was later rolled out of the police investigation as they
believed that Alien knew her killer. That was what the
police believed, and they believed that the man Alien had
within the hours before her murder had been her killer.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Would he have owned the couplics that we wouldn't have
if he was sixteen?

Speaker 8 (11:06):
Yes, and.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
That's what I mean sixteen.

Speaker 9 (11:12):
It's very rare they have a sixteen year old killers.
I mean, obviously there are, but that's a really sight.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
There, especially with a thirty year old woman.

Speaker 6 (11:21):
I would a sixteen year old be attracted to a
nice bucket.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
We're going to know about this bloody eye bucket.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
The only thing I could think of is maybe if
he was in the area. Maybe he was in the
pub and it maybe overheard. Maybe she was on the
phone with somebody in the pub and they're just i'll
have an ice holiday. Maybe you overheard, and he thought, all, great,
I know who that is. I'm going to I'm just
making up stuff. And it was just because I don't
know what's what happened. I just I don't know.

Speaker 9 (11:50):
If he's a house brief and they had stuff in
his pockets from other houses.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
They broke me in.

Speaker 9 (11:54):
He could have dropped the cufflink and nicked out another house.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
That is a.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Really good point. But yeah, because either the thick caregility.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, was taken. Yeah, housebreaker? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Was it a special kind of ice bucket? Is what
we want to know.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
It wasn't, hadn't I don't.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
He could have put the brick in it.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
He didn't. He left the brick.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
He left the back.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
So he left the break.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
I left the break, everybody, Sorry, sorry I miss that.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yes, there, so they did have the wreck, Yes, they
had the break. Yeah, they had it.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
She's coming, are you coming to that? Look at her face,
doesn't want to say anything.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
So anyway, Okay, so the couple just at this point,
the police's theories have got so many theories. They're either
it's either a new a killer, perhaps a boyfriend. And
because she had sick, she was known to have sex
before she for hours before she was killed. Was it
a random burglar? And on realizing the property wasn't empty

(13:10):
empty he killed her? Or did? Was it a burglar?
And alien knew him and she killed her because she
knew him, I could identify him. So they've got a
few theories. And again just getting nowhere.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
If she knew why would he need to kick in
the door. Why would he not just knock.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
At the door unless it was someone else that she
was saying? And then he left and then too.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, it's about of a coincidence, is it the one?
Just one comes in? She's still in her clothes the night,
didn't say. That's actually the point. I didn't say anywhere
at all. What she was wearing, nothing, what she was found.
We don't even know. Did you get to bed? Is
this happened? We don't even know when it happened. Did
you get to bed?

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Did it happen through the night? Was some to break it? Nothing?
Don't know that. So then what's next? We thought we
heard somebody and now there did what APMs next? So
the properator fiscal or the police asked the procurator fiscal
if Alien's murder could be closed, because that was that
was the next step as what you want if you

(14:18):
have the family. Well, Alien's mom she said she accepted
that despite the police's long held belief that Alien likely
knew her killer, she now was happy to believe that
Alien had disturbed a random burglar. This could have This
was the sixteen year old man boy at the time,

(14:39):
and he had attacked Alien when she disturbed them, so
they were happy to you know, that was the line
that got a place where Alien's mom didn't know whether
he meant to kill her and maybe just panicked and
hit her too hard and it cost her death. But
it said somewhere else that she was bludgeoned to death.
So that doesn't sound like panic, and he just sounds

(14:59):
like he was intent.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
She covered either, yes, with the origin quilt, because that's
what killers are surposed to usually do, aren't they If
they know the person, they cover them because they feel bad.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
But if they don't know them, they don't usually cover them.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
They said that somewhere as well, that she was covered
over because the killer just couldn't bear what he'd done.
But it's just speculating, okay. So, like I said, Alien's
mum was happy with the picture of the police had built,
and she was happy that she knew what happened to
Alien that night. Alien'smum was told that the police suspected

(15:38):
that this man was Alien's killer, and Alien's sister firmly
believed that. No. She believed that she was glad it
was over, and she was happy that they weren't going
to have to go through the court, the long court,
the court case. So okay, despite having no answers to
any of these questions, they there's this man. They've decided,

(16:03):
this is the sixteen it was sixteen the time, this
is this is who did it? This is who did it?
They've decided. So there was so many questions left unanswered.
I mean, this poor man, he had a wife, he
had three children, he had a good job. He was
just doing his getting on with his life. Did he
take his own life? Him taking his own life, does

(16:24):
it prove he's guilt? Does it prove that he's guilty?
Would he have been found guilty in a court of law,
because that's the only way we can do it. Would
this outcome, would you fool if you were this family,
alien's family. Would this outcome? But you feel like it
was justice had been done. They were happy, they were happy.

(16:45):
They felt that we're not happy now we're all right.

Speaker 5 (16:49):
Maybe it was just so much stress on the family.
They just wanted, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
They wanted finally forget about it.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
That sounds horrible, but maybe just to be done with it.
And except what the police were telling them.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Do you think because at the time, the papers named
this suspotential suspect, and that's all he w was. There
was no rest, no nothing, so they named them. Do
you think they should have done that before he was
even charged, before he had been arrested. And the police,
I mean they also said in the papers you know
out there that you know, we're expecting to get this

(17:25):
arrest soon. But nothing had been nothing had been done.
His name was out there. They were basically telling everybody,
we've got them, we're just waiting for it now. So
that was kind of.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Found that I used to publish everything in.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, because it's the family. I mean, Okay, if he
killed and then fair enough but what about the family.
He's got three kids as well, so that, yeah, I
didn't really like that very much. That's left hanging over
them now as well. So, like I said, the Fiscal's
office the double down, even though there was fit. The

(17:59):
double down. The said that they concluded an investigation into
the death of alien. The report's been sent to the
propriator fiscal. Suspect was identified and that individual is now
deceased and the place where the same They believe that
they had there was a sufficiency of evidence in the
report that they sent to the proprietor fiscal, which would
have secured a conviction in court. So they're basically telling

(18:22):
everybody that's it.

Speaker 5 (18:25):
That happened so often as well, doesn't it lack this
sort of easy solution.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Okay, so not quite finished. So November nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
She's getting to you all, she's getting to your questions.
She's sitting up get ready for this.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
So four months after the prime suspect to his own life,
it was finally revealed what the key piece of information
had been that the detectives whole made the detectives wholeheartedly
believe that this sixteen year old prolific housebreaker had been
Alien's murderer, so we're going to tell us. Okay, it
wasn't forensic or DNA evidence, and the linked them to

(19:05):
the scene, to the crime scene. Remember I said earlier
that that was what the newspapers were reporting that they'd
been this breakthrough. They'd gathered the evidence and they were
built a profile of the killer. Okay, So that never happened,
and they didn't have any DNA evidence. There was never
a profile of the killer. It was an anonymous tip
off they'd received that made them wholeheartedly believe this, and

(19:27):
it was about the infamous cufflings. So despite them considering
initially considering that this was the cufflings were such an
important lead that then thought it was just a red heron,
So they had kind of dropped it until they got
this anonymous tip off which made them conclusively, which made

(19:48):
them believe that this conclusively placed the sixteen year old
boy at Alien's home and had murdered her that night. Okay,
So apparently you said this, and I was like, damn,
the cuff links. These this cuff of these cufflings had
been stolen from a house near Alien's flat sometime in August.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Little Janeus.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
It didn't say if it was the night of the
murder or whether because it was never reported. This person
didn't report it, but so I didn't know whether it
was actually the night of the murderer, whether he'd done it.
Sometime in August, the same month that Aileen was murdered,
it was actually an elderly widow. She lived in this
house and her husband had had these cufflinks and they

(20:37):
were stolen, like I say, in a break in in August.
So the police traced trace the family once the type
of coming the trace of the family, because the lady
had died a few years after Alien's murders. The choice
the family and they confirmed that yes, this had been
This was the cuff links they had had had the dad,

(20:58):
the husband, I owned them, and that they've been stolen
in this breaking. But she had never come forward, Like
you're saying, all this informations out there, you know, at
the time, and this woman never reported it, never came forward.
So years years later finally the family are saying, oh, yes,
that definitely was a couple of ins.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Was a wee bit. Do you think she knew them
were missing?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Now she must have known, because otherwise how is the
family going to be able to say.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh, yeah, I remember that, that's true.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I don't know when she said they were missing, or
it wasn't like I said, it wasn't a police report.
It was never reported as well. One of them.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
She was especially they were really small. Yeah, I don't
think i'd pay enough attention.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
It's not like I have a Gucci was it?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
This is what I was thinking as well, because somebody
said you said about the ice bucket was and the expensive?
Was it something fancy? But if if he the sixteen
year old went into this house and saw these cuflings,
were you know, you maybe thought, well you didn't know
there were two pounds you took them. Because so maybe
he saw this gold and white ice bucket and thought,
oh that's expense. So he could have could have done it,

(22:18):
could have done it.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
But anyway, it's an awkward thing to steal down just
take it jewelry. It's still wade, isn't it. Maybe he
did it just to throw everyone off.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
I don't know. I don't even know who did that anymore. Anyway,
So the police believed that, like you said, she'd stolen,
he'd broken into this old lady's house, stolen the cufflinks
or whatever else, then broke into Alien's house, took nothing
from her house, but killed her other than the wallet
and the ice bucket, and killed her and the one

(22:53):
of the cufflinks had dropped out.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
Okay, that makes sense, doesn't it. That's sort of logical.

Speaker 9 (23:01):
Yeah, we said he was a prolific housebreaker.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Did he have any previous history of violence when he
was breaking an entrance?

Speaker 5 (23:10):
Didn't say.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Again, there was very little information that I would have
liked having on that as well.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
Yes, but then he could have just panicked in the
moment when he saw her and just he'd never done
anything like that before and just he panicked and that
was close by. Possibly, yeah, allegedly, so they said.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
The police said that it was this was the fact
that they decided he broke There was this boy that
broke I mean that they didn't catch anymo before. They didn't,
you know, there'd been a robbery at this other lady's house,
but he broke in, did that, And it was that evidence,
as well as apparently some comments he'd allegedly made concern
in Alien's death, as well as after we spoke to

(23:54):
his friends and acquaintances back then that led them to
believe that he was Alien's killer. No, dy any there
was nothing to put them at the scene. But because
this lady is the place thought you robbed this lady
then went on to Alien and because that cupling was there,
that proved he murdered her. Conclusively.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Proved sketchy though, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Later in November, it was reported that Alien's case was
closed because the prime suspect was dead and they would
be they wouldn't be hunting for Alien's killer anymore.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh, that was it.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
That was the case of thirty one year old Alien printy.
So what do you think.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
They'd ever marry up fingerprints ounds something that?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
There was nothing? They had nothing, there was all that
was what they had other van. It would be good
because I don't know whether you've noticed, but this they're
not very transparently Scottish courts or police. It would be
good if the family, I mean the family have said
this potential suspects family have said he didn't do it,

(25:09):
he didn't know what was said. They said he's been
hounded by the police and they're just looking for escapegoat.
And show me what evidence you've got that conclusively proves
that this he did this, and they've not so I
think in this case, I mean, they've been left with
us hanging over them. Why would you not just be
a little bit more transparent and just say, look, we
do have a wee bit more. We haven't told you

(25:30):
all this would have come out of the court, so
they might have more. That's all they're saying. And I've
left it with not got the day any and it
never happened. There's nothing, it's just this cufflink that was found.
They've decided he killed her. Oh that's why I've said, unresolved.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
How many years do you have to wait before the
police open their confidential file.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, they're not going to do it in a hurry.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Who only thinks he did it? Put your hands up
if you think he No one thinks he did it.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh my goodness. Well yeah, I am shocked at that,
That's what I say.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
But obviously Alien's family they're happy with that. They feel
they've got justice, They've got you know, they know what
happened and happy to let that rest. His family obviously
are left with this.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
You know, have ever tried to do anything to clear
his name?

Speaker 5 (26:22):
Nothing?

Speaker 2 (26:22):
To you, nothing since nineteen ninety seven. They just basically
said his escapegoat and he didn't do it. Tell me
what you've got that proves it nothing. There's been nothing.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
That's very sad children, isn't it? And his wife? That's
what because they're just going to be known.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Is that I hate on the place because I've got
another podcast and I do speak to police officers and
some of them are really great. But back then there
was a lot of you know, sometimes they just want
to clear the decks, don't they They want somebody for
that killing.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
They needed on the keys, that's what they needed.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Are not proving, but yeah.

Speaker 9 (27:09):
Did they have anything still in their possession with potential
d ANY on it? You said they had the brick,
You've got the brick. Surely if they have them, there's
got to be some sort of DNY on them.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
It literally, that was all it said that there it's
a conclusive that they know they had you know, they
had this profile, the basic DNY, but then it turns
out they've got nothing.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Maybe they destroyed that evidence too.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yeah, because I.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Do case.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
They don't have her clothes, like I said, have kept
her clothes, but then they didn't do that.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
That much back then.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I mean they didn't know what was going on,
that was back in egy Won. They're not thinking, you
know that bar a head and even if ELI always
think about when they like you say, there's a lot
of cases that are now, oh we've got the DNA
from years later, but is it safe? Is it safe
because contamination it's a long time.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, exactly, it's worrying say about blood splatter and things
like with the brick.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
There must have been a mess, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Wellow because I said bludgeoned his blood. He said said
bludgeon so that would listen. There was no mention of
this boy walking along with the ice pick, ice pick,
the ice bucket having blood on them.

Speaker 8 (28:25):
I mean, just he could broken in, took what he took,
and she was when he went in, she was dead.
And then he was a sixteen cventy year old boy.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's what I thought he could have stolen. He could
have stolen. That could have.

Speaker 8 (28:40):
Been the married man that she had sex with.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
Yeah, could have been the man walking into Edinburgh with
They sued on, couldn't it did?

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I never found him nothing that did.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
You not see the cufflink was under our body though.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, no, just found it the scene, not under our body. No,
just at the scene. Okay, but I'm sorry it's unresolved.
What do you think so we height No, I's satisfying,
But this one was. This is actually a listener and
one of my listeners actually requested us when I hadn't
heard of it.

Speaker 9 (29:10):
A few for these white kids, I think we should
crowd say.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
A crowd fund, whatever you call it.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
I get the break if they've got in the couple
to prove it either way.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Just so, what do you think? I'm curious. I mean,
obviously somebody's died, you know, the potentials as but it's died.
That's the end of it. Do you think that maybe
it shouldn't be Do you think that maybe okay, you
can't have a trial, or maybe you should have a
trial present everything, so everything's out there, and why can't
they be convicted after their.

Speaker 8 (29:46):
Yeah, the because the family have the mother and the
daughter sister have accepted. There's no pressure to do anything else.

Speaker 5 (29:58):
Yep, that's what we've just cut. But a case like
that in Australia and it was solved. It was about gay.
There was a lot of gay murders in Australia men
who were murdered in Sydney and just pushed off cliffs basically,
and they didn't know what was happening. And one particular
guy who was over from America, he had been murdered

(30:21):
and his family just didn't stop. And then they found out,
like twenty thirty years later, it was actually loads of
homosexual men who were bashed in that area and who
were pushed over cliffs, and it opened up a whole
massive thing, and it did a big inquiry into the police,
and they found out eventually that he was murdered because
the police had said that it was he'd taken his

(30:42):
own life. And because the family pushed and pushed and
pushed this guy, it did help that this guy was
a billionaire. He had done this. His brother became a
billionaire in the time. But because the family pushed for
so long, they found out about all these other things
that were happening in Australia at that time. It was
in the eighties as well, when it wasn't a good
time to be gay in Australia or pretty much most places.

(31:03):
And they think that because of his particular case, it
actually pushed gay marriage to be legal much quicker in
Australia than it would have because of this family just
pushing and pushing over all this amount of time and
they finally got closure. But I mean he was flying
back and forth from Australia to Sydney and it was
so many years and not everyone has that money, and

(31:24):
like lots of those families didn't get proper closure because
the police just weren't interested in investigating, and it was horrible.
It was just that he had the money and he
was really at it and his wife was really at
it that that actually got solved. So I can see
how this happened so often.

Speaker 10 (31:40):
I was just thinking, could you not have even get
DNA from you know, the the suspect even in the car,
the car to compete it.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
The way the phone didn't feed for today, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I just accepted it.

Speaker 10 (31:58):
But the police, I think, with the big part, just
kind of mean all neat and tidy globy.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
You know, it's closed as far as they're consent.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Is so stress Like imagine all the stress on the family,
like all those continuously just not being able to get
on with your life.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
Telling cash story from from what happened back then and
how it was treated by the police to how it
would be treated nowadays. You know, forensics would be all
over it. There's there's not many murders that actually are unsolved,
perhaps these days, given the advancies. So yeah, I just
I just wonder, you know, what would have happened had

(32:37):
they had the technology then that they do now and.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
The care I think as well.

Speaker 9 (32:43):
They must not because they would be able to check
children and have some sort of match, even if it
wasn't one hundred percent, you know, you can tell it's
family and stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, yeah, but it was really interesting in getting all
your theories because obviously it maybe since when my tone
was I didn't I don't like how that was done.
I don't like that they put his name out there.
I don't like that they put that pressure in the family.
I don't like that at all that the police did that,
and I not. I don't think you did it. I

(33:13):
don't know, and we'll never know. You might have, you
might have did it, but yeah, it's not fair. So
it was interesting hearing what you had to say and
all that.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, he's really frustrating though, it is, I know,
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