This episode revisits the unsolved 1983 murder of Aberdeen taxi driver George Murdoch. It covers recent developments including DNA evidence, familial DNA testing, and rewards. George's nephew, Alex, and Alex’s wife, Robina, discuss their ongoing campaign to find the killer, including tips received through social media. The podcast explores theories about the murderer's profile and motivations. It emphasises the impact on George's wife Jessie and appeals for anyone with information to come forward, even anonymously, stressing that every lead is taken seriously in the hope of finally solving this over 40-year-old cold case.
LINKS:
Facebook - Appeal for Information Aberdeen Taxi Driver Murder 1983 - George Murdoch
APPEAL TO WILSON'S SPORTS BAR CLIENTELE & IRON MAIDEN FANS
Email Robina and Alex privately if you have any thoughts, information, suspicions, or names, at jdhallfield@mail.co.uk
Or
Private message Robina and Alex on their George Murdoch Appeals Facebook Page
Or
Contact Police Scotland on 101
Visit scottishmurders.com for full show notes.
CREDITS:
Scottish Murders is a production of Cluarantonn
Hosted and edited by Dawn Young
Guests: Alex and Robina McKay (George Murdoch's nephew and his wife), and Ryan from the podcast Who is the Cheesewire Killer.
Production Company Name by Granny Robertson
MUSIC:
ES_Battle of Aonach Mor - Deskant - epidemicsound
LINKS:
Facebook - Appeal for Information Aberdeen Taxi Driver Murder 1983 - George Murdoch
APPEAL TO WILSON'S SPORTS BAR CLIENTELE & IRON MAIDEN FANS
Email Robina and Alex privately if you have any thoughts, information, suspicions, or names, at jdhallfield@mail.co.uk
Or
Private message Robina and Alex on their George Murdoch Appeals Facebook Page
Or
Contact Police Scotland on 101
Visit scottishmurders.com for full show notes.
CREDITS:
Scottish Murders is a production of Cluarantonn
Hosted and edited by Dawn Young
Guests: Alex and Robina McKay (George Murdoch's nephew and his wife), and Ryan from the podcast Who is the Cheesewire Killer.
Production Company Name by Granny Robertson
MUSIC:
ES_Battle of Aonach Mor - Deskant - epidemicsound
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Scottish Murderers. This is part
two of the George Murdoch Unsolved Murder Revisited. In part one,
(00:35):
we heard from George's nephew Alec and Alex's wife Robina,
who have been behind a campaign to keep the details
of George's murder in the public eye in the hope
that one day someone who holds the key to who
George's murderer is comes forward. We also heard from Ryan,
the host of the five part episode podcast Who Is
the Cheeseware Killer, who spoke to Alec and Rubina for
(00:58):
his podcast, as well as the lead detective working on
George's case, a forensic psychologist, and the next door neighbor
of George and his wife Jesse at the time of
his murder, thirteen year old David, who saw George as
his second grandfather. And we heard about two huge updates
that happened in George's murder case. In part two, we
will hear again from Alec, Robina and Ryan, and we'll
(01:21):
hear about two further significant updates in this case. But
first I spoke to Ryan about how pleased I was
that his podcast, Who Is the Cheeseware Killer had been
shortlisted and commended at the UK True Crime Awards. So
much goes into putting a single podcast episode together, but
Ryan did an exceptional job on this five part episode
(01:42):
series and he deserved the commendations. However, Ryan had another
surprise for me. I wanted to congratulate you because your
podcast it was shortlisted at the UK True Crime Awards.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Wasn't it? It was? It was that was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was so happy for you.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you. It was highly commanded by the judges and
do you know what, it was such a lot of work.
I don't think NMD appreciate sometimes how much work a
podcast can be to be together, from not just from
from the interviews to the research, to the writing of
it to the presenting of it, but even just after that,
there was there was no point being doing all all
(02:19):
the work, and there's no point taking up the time
of all the people that agreed to be interviewed without
as many people hearing as possible. So we did a
lot of basically just following up news agencies and radio
and television we've got and we've got We've got quite
a lot of pr from it, which obviously helped to
get more listeners. So yeah, so we we were highly commented,
and then last year we also won Best True Crime
(02:41):
Podcast at the Independent Podcast Awards.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Oh I didn't know that. I'm missag No, I didn't. Congratulations.
That's excellent. Oh yes, show me.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Sure Awards sitting at my desk, so yeah, oh.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Why you're not really?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I love it. That's really great. You should be very proud.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm very, very proud of the podcast. I am so
thankful to the individuals that were interviewed tell George and
Jetty's story, how a traumatic was for them, and it
was great to get recognition for it.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You haven't listened to it, give it a listen.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Who is the Cheeseware killer? You know? Please do it?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Okay? So, before we hear about any further updates, we
heard a lot in part one about how a former
prisoner had got in touch with Robina and Alec through
their Facebook page and gave them a really different perspective
on George's killer. Before we hear from Rabina and Alick
about this, let me read parts of what this former
prisoner had to say. You can read the full post
(03:34):
from the twenty seventh and twenty eighth of February twenty
twenty five by visiting the George murder appeal page on Facebook.
The posts are titled profile of a killer. This man's
belief is that George's killer was not a local crook
and that it was not a robbery gone wrong. Instead,
he said that this was a sadistic, sick killer who
(03:56):
had plotted a murder or violent crime and made sure
there were no witnesses because of his comeuppings if he
got it wrong, going on to say that this man
is on the police computer somewhere and not for anything
minor either. The former prisoner also believes that within hours
or days, George's killer was out of the city, hence
(04:17):
why there were no rumors or whispers, going on to
say that the reason I give thoughts to this brute
not being local is because this city turns into a
village when a crime like this occurs, and I never
heard a whisper throughout the entire eighties, and that this
is a human predator who calmly walks the streets with
a cheese wire in his pocket, and that he is
(04:38):
no stranger to extreme violence. He went on to state
that I speak from a position of being in that
lifestyle for around eight or nine years. I have met
and associated with this category of man, and a small
number of them killed for no reason. Rabina and Alec
are so grateful for this ex prisoner contacting them. And
(04:58):
it was in his younger year, some thirty years ago
that this man found himself in prison. But he has
since turned his life around, but vividly remembers his time
at rubbing shoulders with cold blooded killers, and he felt
compelled after seeing the appeals for information to who George
Murdock's murderer could be, to contact Robina and Elick and
(05:19):
put his theory forward. Here's what Robina and Alec had
to say about this man coming forward, what him doing
so led to, and just how thankful they are for
everyone who likes, shares and comments on their Facebook posts.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
He'd thought about this for a couple of years, coming forward,
and I believe it. I think he said that his
wife sort of persuaded and look, why don't you just
try it? You never know where it might lead. So
I appreciated his kindness and his compassion and somebody coming forward,
so he deserved for this to be followed up. Irrespective,
it just so happened that we actually agreed with him
so far in this case, the local papers have been
(05:54):
so the TEG Prison General at the evenings first, they
have been absolutely incredible at the help they've given us.
These were the papers of the President Journal who contributed
ten thousand pounds to the reward way back. I mean
you could have just not mover with a feather when
they said that. So we have a very good relationship
with them, extremely good. So they would be our first
(06:16):
go to paper, you know, to take anything to or
if we wanted to ask if they would think such
we took to them would be worth putting out there.
And in generally they always agree. In this particular occasion,
the guy who came forward, he says, have you managed
to get anything out in the central belt? So Glasgow,
Edinburgh and even Dundee it set quite the central belt,
but basically out with the Aberdeen area. And he was
(06:38):
making a good point because somebody in Glasgow offense an
offender in Glasgow, they won't imprison them in a Glasgow prison,
they'll send them elsewhere. Generally they'll send them away from home.
So has thought that this could be somebody out with
the Aberdeen area, which is why he thought there were
no whispers. I've never heard any whispers in any pubs
to Aberdeen, which is very unusual with a crime like that,
(07:00):
So it could well be somebody who's not from this area.
I mean, we don't know. We're open to any suggestions
with this, so I did contact the local paper and
this is maybe more a post for Facebook page. I says.
The only problem here is although we have a good
following and people share, I says, obviously, it's still going
to be far short of the kind of readership and
(07:22):
the reach that they would have. But I says, I'm
fine if you want. If you think we should just
keep it with Facebook, that's fan. So we decided just
keep it for Facebook at the time. However, another one
of the papers, the Daily Record, they've also over the
years been helpful to us, particularly in recent years. I
think the current reporter who speaks with us, I think
he's actually either from Aberdeen or he used to work
(07:43):
for one of the Aberdeen Live So I contacted him
and I said, would you be interested in this? And
he jumped at the chance, and I was pleased that
he did. So he put this out no questions asked.
I thought this was going to want to speak with
the guy, and in fairness, the guy very willingly says, look,
if he wants to speak with me, I won't reveal
my identity, be happy to seek with him. But thankfully
he didn't want to do that, or he didn't need
to do it, so he put a good article in
(08:05):
the Daily Record, which I think helped considerably because it's
amazing Dawn, I mean Dodd's case. Yes, it's had extensive
coverage in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, but I'm still amazed at
the number of people I've spoken with who've never even
heard of it. That's here, that's close to home, in
Glasgow and Edinburgh. Before we went to the police in
twenty fifteen, I was kind of making some insights and
(08:28):
inquiries into could be used like pis on this so
wouldn't be interested. Nobody ever heard of the case, not
a single person. So the Daily Record getting this out
it really helped coverage. I mean it actually got it
out there right across the Central Belt. So after I posted,
I think we tried to get the post on the
same days as it was going into the Record. It
(08:48):
was actually either that same night or the day after that.
Two guys came forward, two ex prisoners, and then the
next day another guy came forward. Now I was so
excited by this. I mean, they all they didn't know
each other, they all had their own names of who
they thought, and they didn't just thought. They were like
one hundred and ten percent convinced these people had killed DoD.
(09:11):
They'd always been convinced of this. Now these are guys,
tough guys, you know, and not the ones to be
conned into somebody saying, you know, I killed that taxi driver.
So they were pretty sure this is the case. So
they gave us the names. I passed them on to
the d I and we were told, you know, all
those names they had been known to them and they
were all eliminated. So it wasn't any of them. So
I got back to the three people. They were shocked.
(09:33):
They were convinced. But more than that, the two things
they had in common was all of them said this
from the start work when this is Look, we're not interested.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
In the money.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
It's not the money we're doing this for. But they says,
we feel that after all this time, we've seen the
family appeals, we feel that the family deserve closure and
we don't want to take this to our grace with us,
and I thought, you know that, actually it humbled me,
and I actually was amazed at the empathy that they
that they should. These people were genuine. They firmly believed
(10:02):
that these individual guys had killed odd as I say,
it wasn't them, none of them. And I got back
and told them and they were like, I'm so sorry
that you know we would bothered you. Well, they never
bothered this. I mean, this is what we want because
one of these days it will turn out to be
the right the right name. But in particular, this is
the corner of society. I think these people, even now
(10:22):
others will hold a lot of useful information. May not
be the right name, but it could lead to the
right right name. So this is really who we want
to read everybody, but in particular these people, because we've
never had any correspondence with them before, they've never conta
acted as before. I hope this is the start of it.
And I'm sure they got the courage to do this
from the guy who is still in touch with me.
(10:43):
He said he's in it for life.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Now, he's in.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It long term. He's not just going to abandon things
he's going to do whatever you can to continue to
help us, and we will be forever grateful to really
a nice guy. And he said to turn the corner,
he says many years thirty years back, he says, basically
saw the of his ways, and as I say, grateful
thanks to him. Seems such a really really nice guy.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Just picking up on what Beana said there. And I
think it's exceptionally gratifying, not just those people. Every tip
that we've had in not one person has asked about
the reward, not a one. Gratifying from a number of perspectives,
because people have got good hearts and want to help
get this solved. But it lets us know that it's
(11:27):
somebody that is saying something that's true in their minds.
It was true in their minds they had been told that.
And the other part of this that has been a
bit of a surprise. I think to both of us,
how many people have said they've killed my uncle. Of
course we're not just talking about people just it's a
throw away line. They've lived that life for a number
(11:50):
of years, telling people for what reason, sometimes to intimidate
people like look, I'm capable, I am absolutely capable of
doing this to basically scare some people for whatever in it.
And it's the scared of the wife. They've scared their sons,
their daughters. These are people that don't actually that, the hard,
(12:10):
hard men that didn't really need to do that.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But that's what I find is most incredible. You know
that their reputations speak for themselves. You know they still
feel the need to do this. I genuinely don't understand that,
but yet it's amazing. John. I can't believe I said
to the die while back this is common, and he
says not really, really really common, but he says more
so than you'd believe. The first time we heard someone
(12:34):
or we got a tip saying that so and so
said we killed the taxi driver, I thought, and quite naively,
oh wow, this has got to be the person. Well
all these years on, no everybody in Aberdeen says they
know somebody who was killed the taxi driver. But as
I say, I don't need to discourage people from coming
in because the police have to check the will be
(12:56):
the right one, so you can't possibly.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I'm not saying that in any way form to discourage people.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But it's just amazing how often the talents.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No exactly, but no, you definitely don't want to discourage
them coming forward. In fact, you mentioned in one of
your posts that people can still get in touch with
you if they want to remain anonymous, and they're not
going to get into trouble either if they had no
information that they haven't passed on. Where do they stand
if they were to get in touch.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, don the police, I mean the police said, because
it was one of the first questions we asked the
police and setting this up, they said, look, we're not
interested on that, and they called it the greater good.
So look, if somebody's done something, they've been a burglar
or something, and they happened to they know about it
because they were they were doing a burglary with the
person that was police, aun'd interested in any way, shape
(13:43):
or form about that. I'm calling it an ancillary thing.
It's got nothing to do with the crime, nothing whatsoever.
I know Rubinus posted that, and we will continue to
tell them that no one is interested in that. Now,
some people might, of course they are. They're maybe just
saying that, but no, I can absolutely swear to the
fact that they would not be in any trouble from
(14:05):
anything else that has got nothing to do with this model,
I mean the.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Current d I and James Callen. This is a while back,
he says, in our opinion, He says, certainly in my opinion,
and he says, this would happen. A murder will always
trump anything else. So he says, he says, I don't
care what they've done. He said, I don't mean I
don't care. But he says, up against the murder, if
it's a case of you know, we'll get this guy
or they'll give us it other information, yet nothing, nothing
will happen to another thing.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's good. That's good to know. It's good to get
that out there because people might be frightened about that.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Absolutely it's very important. I mean, I can understand people thinking, oh,
you know, I either knew who it is or I
could give valuable information, but I'm scared to go forward
in case to say, well, you know. And also and
also other than you know, if they've done something, the
person might feel that police will say so why didn't
you come forward before? So there might be that angle too,
and they and we would just be happy if they
(14:55):
would just come forward at all. I don't care how
many years that have helped this or whatever. Just come forward.
Nobody's going to judge you or you know, look at
you differently or whatever. We would just be more than
happy to hear what you have to say. If it
turns out not to be the correct information, well that's fine.
It's somebody else who's dismissed, and so it's.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
All good, Robina, and I will guarantee them anonymity if
that's what they wish.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
I am always checking this Facebook page, and I always
always like to make sure I get back to people.
If they're good enough to contact us, I always like
to make sure I get back to them, and also
that they finally get answers from the police, because there
would be no use to be if somebody goes to
the bother. I mean, people of their own lives to lead.
We welcome, as Alex says, and we're grateful for their input,
(15:38):
very grateful indeed. But without them we wouldn't have any
Facebook page. It's almost like like their extended family. I
often see the same names coming in with likes and shares,
which is brilliant. So I kind of get to know
these people a little bit better. You know, they go
out of their way to initiate a conversations about this,
about this murder, and try and find her as much
as they can. And as I say, we appreciate every
(15:59):
single thing that everybody does for us.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Alec and Rabina really do value every single piece of
information shared with them on their Facebook page. They will
take everything that is shared with them seriously and pass
on to the detective in charge of the case, di
I James Calendar, who in turn will either investigate or
assure Alec and Rabina that that line of inquiry was
known about and had been dealt with. If the information
(16:23):
Rabina receives turns out to be incorrect, she will then
share this on Facebook so others know this information is
incorrect too. For example, someone got in touch on the
George Murder Murder Appeal Facebook page to inquire about a
rumor that they had heard about there having been a
chicken kebab left on the backseat of George's Texi on
the night of his murder. But a let Rabina tell
(16:45):
you about that in her own words, while Alex shared
a further longstanding rumor that has since been discovered to
also be incorrect.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
At the time, there were a lot of rumors about
We've had a few, not many. We've had a few
come in, you know, since we started the Facebook page.
But I've been aware of him, and I've been able
to explain, you know, yes, we heard that too. That
didn't work out or wasn't them because if this happened
the other that one I'd never heard before about the
chicken kebab or something. And I think the chap said
(17:15):
that a mate of his new one of the police
or something, and I thought, well, so a bit of respective,
I would have passed us on to the d IM.
I did pass it on to him. And as soon
as I told the DI I this, he says, no,
that this definitely didn't happen, and our officers wouldn't have
gone to whatever, blah blah blah. So he says, you
can tell you that the person called in that definitely,
(17:36):
that's definitely not truly. Maybe obviously he'd heard this and
it was it was good of him because he could
have been telling other people this maybe I already had done.
And again that's something else that can be debunked, you know.
And if he never came forward, you know, he or
some of his friends might be thinking, well, you know,
but what about this? So he did them and us
a favor because it stopped other people from thinking this
or from viewing, you know, if this and it wasn't true.
(17:59):
But it also gave closure to others who believed this
or who had heard of this. But I had never
heard of that one that was a new one. And
the few others we've heard, Yes, very seldom we get
something coming in like that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And the other one that was quite interesting. It was
about the reporter, the senior crime and investigation reporter, Brian Brutherford.
He uncovered something that was really interesting. Can you tell
us about that?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, well, at the time there was a big brew
ha ha, just from one offul Pettle words was that
nobody came forward until about six weeks after the murder
that someone in Mister Chips, which was about so maybe
about two three miles away from where the murder recurred,
someone had gone in there that night after the murder
and had blood cuts on his hand, face, blood, et cetera.
(18:44):
But it wasn't reported for six weeks. I never attached
any significance to that story. But this is again on
me putting myself in the murder. I said, well, who
would go in for a supper but we're not the murderer,
and seemingly they're so detached and it is possible they
could do that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
However, this guy, Brian Ruther for the Present General Reporter
had spoken to He said, I had gone into the
chip shop the night before, he said, and he was
catching hairs and skinning them, et cetera. And he had
blood on his hands, he says, and well, I can't remember,
(19:22):
he said, he may will have cut his hands, et cetera.
So he'd gone to Brian Ruther. Poor man wasn't well.
I'm not sure if he's if he passed, but anyway,
he was exonerated. It wasn't him, but the fact it
was the night before, it almost seems like that was
like because they want police wanted made away of that
for six weeks. It probably was this guy that went in,
(19:45):
but it was the previous night, so.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It could have just been either that the dates we're
so close but they were wrong, or it could still
have been you know that somebody else has been in
the No, it definitely wasn't that particular guy, and it
was good of him. He was actually terminally ill at
the time. It was good of him to, you know,
agree to speak to Brian Rutherford, so again all thanks
to him.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Alec and Rubina are always so appreciative for any tips
or information they receive and we'll always pass them on
to Detective James Calendar. So if you have heard a
rumor or have any information about this case, please contact
Alec or Rabina on their Facebook page George Murdoch Murder
Inquiry or email them at JD Halfield at mail dot
(20:26):
co dot uk. These details will be in the show notes. Okay,
So in the teaser in part one, we heard Ryan
say that it was announced by police that a DNA
profile of George's murderer had been acquired, which is absolutely
fantastic news. But there would be even more fantastic news
to come. Let's hear from Ryan about those developments.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I interviewed a couple of the forensic scientists physic pathologists
that work in the case, and the work these guys
do is just phenomenal. It's just it's just it's just incredible.
But they have worked in this DNA they haven't They've
never released where the DNA came from, whether it was
from the cheeseware itself or don't. I don't know, but
(21:06):
there there was an item there in the taxi or
around George that they did extract DNA from. So in
twenty twenty three, on the forty anniversary of the murder,
they made public that they have DNA of the killer,
but that person isn't on the database. So without that
person being arrested and having a DNA sample taken, that's
(21:29):
not going to help the police. So it's not as
much as as that was a significant lead. It's one
piece of other jig so that but then they need
to find out who that DNA belongs to. Without that identity,
that they won't know. But then from what I've read them,
from what I've seen since since the podcast was released,
they've managed to work on that DNA and develop that
(21:50):
and now what they have is they have a familial DNA,
which means that basically the DNA sample they have now
could be linked to a relt of his and there
was at the time they said there was two hundred
possible genetic matches. So wants to go through through their database.
They've done a public appeal and also think what's really
(22:12):
important is that since the DNA has come out now,
it means that if somebody out there thinks that their
brother or their dad, or their nephew or whoever son
where it was involved. They don't need now to go
to the place and say I think this person was
involved and think this think that that will never be
able to get proven or disproved. So that sample. That
(22:33):
means if somebody does come forward and say I think
it was X or Y, the police can go to
this DNA sample now and say yes it was or
no it wasn't. So for somebody out there that might
think they know who did it, there's now a way
of one hundred percent confirming whether they are correct or
are incorrecting in their assumption. I think that must be
(22:54):
a huge That must be a huge thing for somebody,
because somebody doesn't want to go to the place and
accuse somebody of this horrific crime if there's a chance
that it might not be able to get proven or not.
But now it can.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So they can just go themselves to the police and
say you know, it could be my relative or search
my frite. Yeah, and they can get swabbed themselves. Yeah,
if you can sent to give a sample upon request
of your DNA to the police who are willing to
travel the length and bread of the country for this.
If that sample leads to the police identifying George Murddugs killer,
then that person will receive ten thousand pounds reward. However,
(23:28):
there is also another reward of fifty thousand pounds which
will be paid to anyone who comes forward with information
that leads to the confirmed identity of George Muddug's killer.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And you know what, that's not the reason why somebody
should do it. Somebody should do because it's the right
thing to do. But at the same time, let's be honest,
it is an incentive and hopefully that will continue to
me that the police gets strong leads because there is
an incentive out there for somebody to really help the
police to finally crack this case.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Let's find out a little bit more about the two
hundred people the police will initially be wanting to compare
the DNA profile with what stage they are at with
this now, what the next steps are, and just how
much it means to Alec and Robina, as well as
what it means for the case that the police now
have Georgia's killers DNA profile.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
To talk about the two hundred do I mean it's
like everything. It's a slow process and I mean, we
can't thank it police enough for doing what they're doing.
But if there's any live current murder inquiry, that's where
the police resources will go to. So the cold case
gets moved back rightfully. So so then when the police
(24:38):
have some time, they'll come back to do this. They have,
they've been very active in terms of that. First and
I'm saying first Tronchi at two hundred because it's not
the last tronchoat two hundred. So they'll go they'll they
set parameters from the National Crime Database. Obviously science is
part of it. There'll be other us that they've set
(25:01):
in their age and all the other things that would
go with that, but they've been out collecting that and
then it goes to the forensic scientist who's busy in
the base case. Okay, it's not like they've been sitting
waiting for this to come in and saying, oh goodye,
I've got some work to do. It's like overwhelmed and
they're really busy. So that just adds to the time
(25:24):
lapse of everything that goes on. But once they get
through that two hundred dawn and there's been no hits
that's not the end of it. There's other and I
don't know the number. The police have been brilliant sharing
information with us, but they won't share everything with us,
and that's absolutely quite right. We accept that they do
keep us up to date with certain things, but they've
(25:47):
obviously got to be very guarded in terms of what
they're telling, even us, even though I think we've got
built up a great relationship with them, So they have
to kind of not tell his everything. So at any
given time, being to d I James calendar, he couldn't
say to us because I would ask nearly an answer,
but I would say, okay, of the two hundred, how
(26:08):
many of you got so far as one hundred and
seventy one hundred eight. No, you won't get into that
kind of detail. It just takes a little bit of
a time in terms of that. And I was going
to say time is one thing we have, but of
course we don't. Rebin and I aren't on spring chickens anymore.
And I've said it before Tom, we're the last generation
(26:29):
that really cares. They knew them enough to care, DoD
and Jesse, We'll continue this for as long as we
possibly can. But when we're gone. The police will still continue,
but there'll come a time I think the law of
diminishing returns of set in when you've just exhausted everything.
(26:49):
But the good thing is about having the DNA, and
this is this is one thing that's pleased me no
end about the police being able to get that. If
they didn't have this and someone came forward and said
it's person X, well, without having a DNA, that would
never ever have got to court because it'd be one
person's word, and it's one person's word about something that
(27:10):
happened forty plus years ago. It would never stack up,
so you'd never be able to tell. But now you
can definitively say yeah, no, say it is this person
because the DNA doesn't lie. So that's been real helpful,
and obviously getting the DNA to an extent that they
can do familiar is very, very very helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Now we've heard throughout this episode and part one a
number of theories about what type of person George's killer
could have been, and the psychologist around spoke to for
his podcast Who Is the Cheeseware Killer? Had another one,
but Sodor Rubina Alec and both the former detective who
worked in the case and the current lead detective, and
it just so happens that they all have the same belief.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
On Ryan's podcast, he interviewed them as psychologist and her
theory was that stranguly usually involves people who want ultimate control.
It's a controlling kind of form of killing somebody, people
who want to exact control. And she says the killer
may have been thinking, I'm not gonna let this guy,
his victim, get the better of me, so I'm going to,
(28:14):
you know, silence him at all costs. Now, I'm not
sure I can understand her saying that in Dodd's case,
I don't think by this time Dodd would have been
putting up any resistance at all. Plus the fact and
I'm not sure if this is got out much. Jesse,
his wife, Dodd's wife, she never was keening him taking
up tax saying anyway. She always thought it could lead
to problems, you know, she could be he could be
(28:36):
attacked or whatever. And poor Jesse was always terrified that
he might be attacked. She was particularly wary and scared
about this when he was on night shift, which of
course he was that particular night. But Dodd always said
to her, look Jess, you know, don't worry about this.
If somebody tries to rob me or whatever, I'll just
tell look, take the money, to take the money and go.
So it's not like Dodd would have put up resistance
(28:58):
if the guy had said to him I want you.
I can't imagine you would say that, because instantly that
would put nod An alert. I think he just put
this wire around his neck without any warning whatsoever. But
irrespective if you had said that, Dodd, they said, Okay,
here's the money.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Go.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
So it's so sad because what Jesse always was terrified
would happen was she didn't expect him to be killed,
but absolutely ended up being the case.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
You know, I think it was James Calender way back
he felt this will be be solved by the signs.
He also said, and so did Gary Winder. They felt
that the person's probably somewhere. If you go into their
ten thousand statements and interviews, they said, it's probably somebody.
It's in there because at that time, of course, no DNA,
(29:43):
no no CCTV, nothing. All you had was going and
interviewing somebody and if they had a valid alibi or
decent alibi based on what you thought came across as
being somebody that was quite open, et cetera. Case closed
in terms of that person. They've not looked at again
even did you go back to the Yorkshire Ripper And
I don't know how many times he was interviewed by
(30:05):
the police and then of course they ended up being him.
So they've always thought it's probably somebody in there, and
it might be. I think there's maybe a good chance,
maybe ninety percent chance, but there's also that ten percent
chance it was just somebody in Aberdeen at that time
and fled pretty quickly to somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The police at the time did I think it was
ten thousand house house calls? They colluded eight thousand witness statements.
There are boxes and boxes and files and files. And
this is one thing that really stood out to me
tuning out when interviews Alex Dodd's nephew, is that he
firmly believes in one of those witness statements is the
key that could solve this case. It's just extracting that
(30:46):
piece and the case has moved forward. There are several
leads that police are looking at, and that's the leads
that they made public. Who knows what other leads they
have actually currently because they don't release everything stood away,
they kind of exhaust all avenues to go through a
process of elimination, and only once they've carried that out
they then make that public to try and open that
out to a wider community, into the wide audience. So
(31:08):
there could be things And I have absolutely no internoledge
of what's happened, of what's happened now in the case.
I never have that intenoledge of what's going on within
the case that's not in the public domain. But I
really hope there is something strong there that they are
currently investigating that will lead to the discovery of Dodd's killer.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Rabina and Alec have received many tips through their Facebook page,
all of which do get passed on to the lead
detective and followed up and eliminated. But I wondered just
how receiving these tips makes Alec and Rabina feel.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, the initial reaction is always a little bit
of elation that this might be the person, yeah, and
that sometimes ebbs away slowly when more information comes in,
and so over time you kind of get a little
less enthusiastic about that. And as I mentioned earlier, there
are have been a number of tips and you kind
(32:03):
of have a lot of highs and lows with it.
You're able tomntalize it as we've been able to do.
This has now been this is a tenth year of this.
Now we didn't expect quick results, but I think in
our hearts and our heads we thought it would be
solved before this time. That doesn't make it say that
we're knocked back, et cetera. Because the one big tip
(32:24):
is just around the corner and done. The fact that
you're doing this in the reach that you have, the newspapers,
the television media, the radio, et cetera. It just takes
one person. And going back to all the tips for
Bena mentioned the two hundred tips from that twenty eighteen
media blitz that came from all over the world. And
(32:45):
so sometimes somebody is sitting at their keyboard, they're fed
up there. I don't know where they are. They're in Darwin,
Australia or something like that, and they're hankering a home
in Scotland because they burn an Aberdeen at that time.
Maybe come from Aberdeen, and they say, come across this
Facebook appeals page and they come across something about the
more done say, oh, I remember that, and I remember this,
(33:06):
and I remember this person, etc. Bang a tip comes
in and it just one of these days, it just
might be the right tip. I think as well.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
We were obviously never done this before, thankfully, but we
were probably naive. We didn't know what to expect, which
was why the first couple of times when we hear
somebody said they'd killed you know, this actor driver, you
tended to pretty much believe, at least I did. And
then as to say, the more often you get these
reports coming in, you're instantly a bit suspect, not from
(33:35):
the person who calls it in, but as to how
this will turn out. So you kind of temper your
your so much and basically you know, so when I
passed this on to the DII, I'm kind of waiting
for him to come back and say, yeah, they've been eliminated,
which has happened so much, or we still need to
trace this person. My initial reaction now is never, I
(33:58):
bet they're going to come back and say this is
you know. I hope that will be the case, and
one day it will, but that's not my reaction now.
Whereas when this first started, it was all this I'm waiting,
and I'm kind of chasing up and saying, have.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
You heard anything yet?
Speaker 4 (34:12):
So it's a natural progression that you go from being
on those highs to well, hopefully it's going to be him,
but I don't expect it will be because it would
be too good.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
If it was.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So, Yeah, it's good actually because you're for me anyway.
I don't know how you you're not in this constant
high low kind of thing. You know, you kind of
even out and you think, you know, let's.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Hope, let's hope.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
So it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
It is good, But the one thing is where and
I hope it comes across. We're not jaded. We're absolutely
not the Hope springs eternal, and we're ten years into it.
We're still there.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
For fact, the longer it goes on, the more intense
I get. Yeah, you know, like the psychologist whom I
refer to with Ryan said that the guy it was like,
you know, his attitude was, he's this person Dodd isn't
going to get the better of me. Well that's exactly
how I feel. The this depraved, sick individual, he's not
going to get the better of us. Whether he's dead
or that, it doesn't matter, you know, with familial DNA,
(35:07):
now the police can still hopefully if we get a
name the guy's dead, they can still hopefully trace food.
Is A name would do it for me, because if
we got a name and the guy had died so
there will be no court case or whatever, that would
be suffice for me. I mean, we'll have to be realistic.
Where will be forty two years in September. Yeah, there's
a chance that he could have died, and particularly if
(35:28):
he led a depraved sort of life, but that's okay.
I'm not bothered about that. So whether there's a court
case or not, so long as we get a name,
all this will be worth it for me as far
as I'm concerned. And I've always felt that. I remember
telling Gary Winter that at the start, and I think
it looked at me like it was crazy. But a
name will do it, and that for me would give
Dodd some justice.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
While there have been many appeals over the years for
information into who killed George Murdock, something that Alex and
Rabina think about is how they would fail and what
they would do if they had suspicions that someone they
knew or loved could perhaps be a murderer. Moral dilemma
or easy decision? What would you do?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I think quite interesting because we're often appealing to somebody
to come forward, and I definitely believe somebody else knows,
other than the killer, who it was, and it's kind
of a moral dilemma. And I say it myself, well,
look if it was my brother that did it and
I knew, would I come forward? And the honest answer is,
and I think it'd be the honest answer for most
people is either they wouldn't or they don't know how
(36:30):
they would react. I think the person would say, yeah,
I absolutely would come forward. Well they might if they
if they hated their brother or son, etc. But I
think most people probably wouldn't. But Rabina mentioned the killer
may will be dead now, and I think that changes thing.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Now.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
All they're doing by not coming forward is protecting the
memory of their individual other brother or what have you,
or whoever. They're only protecting their memory. And I think
at that time a bit like Rabina mentions some of
these previous people that had been in prison, that they
felt they didn't want to take it to the brave
and I would hope that somebody, and I would hope
(37:08):
I would have the courage that was somebody in my
family to do that as well. But it's a moral
dilemma because I don't know if many.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
People would I agree poleheartedly with that. I'm probably the same.
I mean, if it was my dad, who was exceptionally
close to I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.
I do think it would alter how you looked at
that person again, and if it was strong enough, or
if you were disgusted enough with the act, maybe they
would find it in their heart to come forward. But
I understand their loyalty and I think they need to
be commended. But we need to make a distinction here.
(37:37):
This guy, he didn't just break into a shop or whatever.
He actually killed another human being. He took Jesse's life,
you know, her husband away. He didn't just kill DoD.
He actually killed the life Jesse had with her husband too.
He's affected both people here. Now, if he has any
sense of care or somebody for whatever, or the person
who knows who did this, that might be suffice for them.
But going out with that family, going out with that
(38:00):
close tie, maybe a neighbor who has always held high
suspicions that it could have been the guy next door,
or the father next door, whatever, These are the people
we would appeal to to come forward because they don't
have that same loyalty. So forget about the close family.
You know, yes it's difficult to break that tie, but
maybe not so difficult for a neighbor, for the milkman,
a friend who was you know, a high suspicion, So
(38:22):
do come forward. Nobody will ever know who came forward. Nobody,
absolutely not. I mean that's one hundred percent correct. But
you could just be doing as a favor here. It
could turn out to be the person you've always suspected.
And if it doesn't, well that's kind of like a
load lifted off you as well. The other thing worse
than thinking it could be somebody you know and you
know you've held this all these years, so it's a
(38:44):
release for them too, So you know, there's other ways
of looking at it.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I think for myself, just you know, I think it
would be an awful burden for a person just thinking
if it was it was my family member, and you know,
it's the case is it's out there now, it's and
everywhere now, and you're seeing that, and it would be
a heavy load on my shoulders, you'd always have this
balance in it. I think it would ruin your.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Life, always have it. And I remember a few things
I read over years back. It can affect your health.
You know this because it's always there. And as you say,
the case is everywhere you know, and I mean you
don't know when you're going to see something in the
paper again. I often wonder how these people who are
holding this individual close to their heart, who are so
loyal to him, how they felt, first of all when
(39:24):
the DNA announcement came. I mean that must have been
a huge, huge blow to think that, you know, he's
never going to be discovered. Now suddenly they'll get DNA.
And then now with the familial the police say has
a one and four chance of being successful. That's I
used to say to the DII by yes one and four.
And he says, that's pretty pretty high odds Overbina, he says,
(39:45):
you know, it's we're not speaking like you know history. Yeah,
he says, that's pretty good. And the police have been
going all over the UK. I mean, you know, from
top to bottom of the British isles. They're not just
going within Aberdeen, butever all over. So who knows, you know,
at least it's better than not having anything at all
to go with. So if that person out there wants
(40:06):
to come forward when they could claim the fifty thousand,
if it doesn't matter if it's if interested them or not,
they would get the money irrespective, So they could come
forward and get the money, or if they don't, it'll
be solved by signs and they won't get anything. That's
their choice to make.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
You have to bring it back to George and Jesse.
George fifty eight, Jesse is fifty six at the time,
and George just taken away from his wife. His wife
made a widow, and she never ever recovered. She suffered
ill health after that because I think she I think
she basically unfortunately died of a broken heart. And that's
what you have to remember too, is that there's two
people here. Their lives were ruined, and all the people
(40:42):
family around them, George's nephew and niece, the other family members,
his neighbor. George and Jesse made such an impact of
so many people's lives, and no one deserves what happened.
It happened to them, But for a couple of that
it's just I think it just makes it makes it
slightly more more sadder if possibly can, And maybe that
sounds insensitive to other people, that I've lost somebody in
(41:04):
this terrible circumstances, but so sad. If anybody out there
has any idea who did this, I cannot say this
strong enough. Please get in touch with Please Scotland do
the right thing. You can do that anonymously, or have
a look at the George Murdoch Facebook page. Just go
to Facebook starts George Murdoch. You can contact the family
(41:26):
through the Facebook page and there's an email dress there
too that people can email. And every single lead, every
single email is taken seriously because it has to, because
it just takes one piece of information that can finally
unlock the truth. Hopefully we will get just as soon.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
If you have any information at all, have heard a
rumor have a theory, or have always had a feeling
that someone you know may have been involved with George
Murdock's murder, please contact Rabina and Alec anonymously or otherwise
by visiting the George Murdock Murdered appeal on Facebook page,
or by emailing JD Halfield at mail dot co dot
(42:04):
uk or contact Police Scotland on one oh one, even
if you don't know anything. Alec and Robina would be
so grateful if you've visited the facebook page and shared
their posts. The more we talk about and share the
details of George Murdock's murder, the more chance there is
that this story will reach just the person who holds
the key piece of information or has a name of
(42:26):
a person they have long thought to be involved. You
can find out more about George and his wife Jesse
by reading The Last Fair written by Rabina Mackay, by
listening to and sharing Ryan's podcast Who Is the Cheesewire Killer,
or by regularly visiting and sharing Raubina's posts on the
George murderch Murder Appeal Facebook page. All links will be
(42:48):
in the show notes. Thank you for listening, sharing and
helping to keep fifty eight year old George Murdock's murder
in the public eye. Here's final thoughts from Alec and
you know.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
Any tip that they have, even if they think it's
totally absurd and they think they're wasting our time, because
it just might be a little sliver of information that
really helps the police. I've always kind of just described
it as like this is a bunch of dots, but
none of us can see how they join up. But
(43:22):
that might just be the one piece that helps us
join up all the dots.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
So if they have any inkling in terms of who
they think, it might be, any bits of information on somebody,
that somebody might have said something, even though it might
have came like about from five stages away that a
friend of a friend of a friend of a friend
of a friend, I'd heard this, so it's a rumor, etc.
But come forward with it, because that could be just
(43:47):
the thing that helps us solve the case.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
There is still an awful lot of information out there.
It's trying to find that button to encourage people to
come forward. Don't think this is nothing any interest in them,
It might just be. Don't be hesitant to come forward.
It doesn't matter. It might sound silly to you, it
might sound like it's nothing. It could actually turn out
to be the one thing we're waiting for, we've been
(44:10):
waiting for all these years, So don't worry about that.
Please come forward. You'll always be treated respectfully. I guarantee
you'll get answers. We'll get back to you, and if
you want any anonymity, no questions asked. We don't care
your reasons for it. We will absolutely, one hundred percent
guarantee it. It only will be between us nobody else.
It'll be treated in strictest confidence. And we really really
(44:31):
would appeal to you. You know, if you take it
to yourself. You know, if you were in our situation.
Hopefully you never will be and it never have been.
But how would you feel. You know, if you've got
this long murder case which hasn't been solved, you would
want to get it solved for that person. Dog can't
dressed in peace. We're his last hope. So we will
just continue on. Nothing will dissuade us. And as to say,
(44:52):
no matter how many disappointments, whatever, We're just going to
hang in there. I will never give up. If ever
that comes of time when the police say, look, you
know we've done all we can. There isn't much more
we can do, well, I'll think of something to do
somehow or other. I can't let this go. We may
never get our resolution. I think we will, to be honest,
but we may not. And it doesn't matter either way.
We will keep going, both of us will keep going.
(45:18):
Scottish Murders is a production of chlorin tone
Welcome to another episode of Scottish Murderers. This is part
two of the George Murdoch Unsolved Murder Revisited. In part one,
(00:35):
we heard from George's nephew Alec and Alex's wife Robina,
who have been behind a campaign to keep the details
of George's murder in the public eye in the hope
that one day someone who holds the key to who
George's murderer is comes forward. We also heard from Ryan,
the host of the five part episode podcast Who Is
the Cheeseware Killer, who spoke to Alec and Rubina for
(00:58):
his podcast, as well as the lead detective working on
George's case, a forensic psychologist, and the next door neighbor
of George and his wife Jesse at the time of
his murder, thirteen year old David, who saw George as
his second grandfather. And we heard about two huge updates
that happened in George's murder case. In part two, we
will hear again from Alec, Robina and Ryan, and we'll
(01:21):
hear about two further significant updates in this case. But
first I spoke to Ryan about how pleased I was
that his podcast, Who Is the Cheeseware Killer had been
shortlisted and commended at the UK True Crime Awards. So
much goes into putting a single podcast episode together, but
Ryan did an exceptional job on this five part episode
(01:42):
series and he deserved the commendations. However, Ryan had another
surprise for me. I wanted to congratulate you because your
podcast it was shortlisted at the UK True Crime Awards.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Wasn't it? It was? It was that was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was so happy for you.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you. It was highly commanded by the judges and
do you know what, it was such a lot of work.
I don't think NMD appreciate sometimes how much work a
podcast can be to be together, from not just from
from the interviews to the research, to the writing of
it to the presenting of it, but even just after that,
there was there was no point being doing all all
(02:19):
the work, and there's no point taking up the time
of all the people that agreed to be interviewed without
as many people hearing as possible. So we did a
lot of basically just following up news agencies and radio
and television we've got and we've got We've got quite
a lot of pr from it, which obviously helped to
get more listeners. So yeah, so we we were highly commented,
and then last year we also won Best True Crime
(02:41):
Podcast at the Independent Podcast Awards.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Oh I didn't know that. I'm missag No, I didn't. Congratulations.
That's excellent. Oh yes, show me.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Sure Awards sitting at my desk, so yeah, oh.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Why you're not really?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I love it. That's really great. You should be very proud.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm very, very proud of the podcast. I am so
thankful to the individuals that were interviewed tell George and
Jetty's story, how a traumatic was for them, and it
was great to get recognition for it.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You haven't listened to it, give it a listen.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Who is the Cheeseware killer? You know? Please do it?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Okay? So, before we hear about any further updates, we
heard a lot in part one about how a former
prisoner had got in touch with Robina and Alec through
their Facebook page and gave them a really different perspective
on George's killer. Before we hear from Rabina and Alick
about this, let me read parts of what this former
prisoner had to say. You can read the full post
(03:34):
from the twenty seventh and twenty eighth of February twenty
twenty five by visiting the George murder appeal page on Facebook.
The posts are titled profile of a killer. This man's
belief is that George's killer was not a local crook
and that it was not a robbery gone wrong. Instead,
he said that this was a sadistic, sick killer who
(03:56):
had plotted a murder or violent crime and made sure
there were no witnesses because of his comeuppings if he
got it wrong, going on to say that this man
is on the police computer somewhere and not for anything
minor either. The former prisoner also believes that within hours
or days, George's killer was out of the city, hence
(04:17):
why there were no rumors or whispers, going on to
say that the reason I give thoughts to this brute
not being local is because this city turns into a
village when a crime like this occurs, and I never
heard a whisper throughout the entire eighties, and that this
is a human predator who calmly walks the streets with
a cheese wire in his pocket, and that he is
(04:38):
no stranger to extreme violence. He went on to state
that I speak from a position of being in that
lifestyle for around eight or nine years. I have met
and associated with this category of man, and a small
number of them killed for no reason. Rabina and Alec
are so grateful for this ex prisoner contacting them. And
(04:58):
it was in his younger year, some thirty years ago
that this man found himself in prison. But he has
since turned his life around, but vividly remembers his time
at rubbing shoulders with cold blooded killers, and he felt
compelled after seeing the appeals for information to who George
Murdock's murderer could be, to contact Robina and Elick and
(05:19):
put his theory forward. Here's what Robina and Alec had
to say about this man coming forward, what him doing
so led to, and just how thankful they are for
everyone who likes, shares and comments on their Facebook posts.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
He'd thought about this for a couple of years, coming forward,
and I believe it. I think he said that his
wife sort of persuaded and look, why don't you just
try it? You never know where it might lead. So
I appreciated his kindness and his compassion and somebody coming forward,
so he deserved for this to be followed up. Irrespective,
it just so happened that we actually agreed with him
so far in this case, the local papers have been
(05:54):
so the TEG Prison General at the evenings first, they
have been absolutely incredible at the help they've given us.
These were the papers of the President Journal who contributed
ten thousand pounds to the reward way back. I mean
you could have just not mover with a feather when
they said that. So we have a very good relationship
with them, extremely good. So they would be our first
(06:16):
go to paper, you know, to take anything to or
if we wanted to ask if they would think such
we took to them would be worth putting out there.
And in generally they always agree. In this particular occasion,
the guy who came forward, he says, have you managed
to get anything out in the central belt? So Glasgow,
Edinburgh and even Dundee it set quite the central belt,
but basically out with the Aberdeen area. And he was
(06:38):
making a good point because somebody in Glasgow offense an
offender in Glasgow, they won't imprison them in a Glasgow prison,
they'll send them elsewhere. Generally they'll send them away from home.
So has thought that this could be somebody out with
the Aberdeen area, which is why he thought there were
no whispers. I've never heard any whispers in any pubs
to Aberdeen, which is very unusual with a crime like that,
(07:00):
So it could well be somebody who's not from this area.
I mean, we don't know. We're open to any suggestions
with this, so I did contact the local paper and
this is maybe more a post for Facebook page. I says.
The only problem here is although we have a good
following and people share, I says, obviously, it's still going
to be far short of the kind of readership and
(07:22):
the reach that they would have. But I says, I'm
fine if you want. If you think we should just
keep it with Facebook, that's fan. So we decided just
keep it for Facebook at the time. However, another one
of the papers, the Daily Record, they've also over the
years been helpful to us, particularly in recent years. I
think the current reporter who speaks with us, I think
he's actually either from Aberdeen or he used to work
(07:43):
for one of the Aberdeen Live So I contacted him
and I said, would you be interested in this? And
he jumped at the chance, and I was pleased that
he did. So he put this out no questions asked.
I thought this was going to want to speak with
the guy, and in fairness, the guy very willingly says, look,
if he wants to speak with me, I won't reveal
my identity, be happy to seek with him. But thankfully
he didn't want to do that, or he didn't need
to do it, so he put a good article in
(08:05):
the Daily Record, which I think helped considerably because it's
amazing Dawn, I mean Dodd's case. Yes, it's had extensive
coverage in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, but I'm still amazed at
the number of people I've spoken with who've never even
heard of it. That's here, that's close to home, in
Glasgow and Edinburgh. Before we went to the police in
twenty fifteen, I was kind of making some insights and
(08:28):
inquiries into could be used like pis on this so
wouldn't be interested. Nobody ever heard of the case, not
a single person. So the Daily Record getting this out
it really helped coverage. I mean it actually got it
out there right across the Central Belt. So after I posted,
I think we tried to get the post on the
same days as it was going into the Record. It
(08:48):
was actually either that same night or the day after that.
Two guys came forward, two ex prisoners, and then the
next day another guy came forward. Now I was so
excited by this. I mean, they all they didn't know
each other, they all had their own names of who
they thought, and they didn't just thought. They were like
one hundred and ten percent convinced these people had killed DoD.
(09:11):
They'd always been convinced of this. Now these are guys,
tough guys, you know, and not the ones to be
conned into somebody saying, you know, I killed that taxi driver.
So they were pretty sure this is the case. So
they gave us the names. I passed them on to
the d I and we were told, you know, all
those names they had been known to them and they
were all eliminated. So it wasn't any of them. So
I got back to the three people. They were shocked.
(09:33):
They were convinced. But more than that, the two things
they had in common was all of them said this
from the start work when this is Look, we're not interested.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
In the money.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
It's not the money we're doing this for. But they says,
we feel that after all this time, we've seen the
family appeals, we feel that the family deserve closure and
we don't want to take this to our grace with us,
and I thought, you know that, actually it humbled me,
and I actually was amazed at the empathy that they
that they should. These people were genuine. They firmly believed
(10:02):
that these individual guys had killed odd as I say,
it wasn't them, none of them. And I got back
and told them and they were like, I'm so sorry
that you know we would bothered you. Well, they never
bothered this. I mean, this is what we want because
one of these days it will turn out to be
the right the right name. But in particular, this is
the corner of society. I think these people, even now
(10:22):
others will hold a lot of useful information. May not
be the right name, but it could lead to the
right right name. So this is really who we want
to read everybody, but in particular these people, because we've
never had any correspondence with them before, they've never conta
acted as before. I hope this is the start of it.
And I'm sure they got the courage to do this
from the guy who is still in touch with me.
(10:43):
He said he's in it for life.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Now, he's in.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It long term. He's not just going to abandon things
he's going to do whatever you can to continue to
help us, and we will be forever grateful to really
a nice guy. And he said to turn the corner,
he says many years thirty years back, he says, basically
saw the of his ways, and as I say, grateful
thanks to him. Seems such a really really nice guy.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Just picking up on what Beana said there. And I
think it's exceptionally gratifying, not just those people. Every tip
that we've had in not one person has asked about
the reward, not a one. Gratifying from a number of perspectives,
because people have got good hearts and want to help
get this solved. But it lets us know that it's
(11:27):
somebody that is saying something that's true in their minds.
It was true in their minds they had been told that.
And the other part of this that has been a
bit of a surprise. I think to both of us,
how many people have said they've killed my uncle. Of
course we're not just talking about people just it's a
throw away line. They've lived that life for a number
(11:50):
of years, telling people for what reason, sometimes to intimidate
people like look, I'm capable, I am absolutely capable of
doing this to basically scare some people for whatever in it.
And it's the scared of the wife. They've scared their sons,
their daughters. These are people that don't actually that, the hard,
(12:10):
hard men that didn't really need to do that.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But that's what I find is most incredible. You know
that their reputations speak for themselves. You know they still
feel the need to do this. I genuinely don't understand that,
but yet it's amazing. John. I can't believe I said
to the die while back this is common, and he
says not really, really really common, but he says more
so than you'd believe. The first time we heard someone
(12:34):
or we got a tip saying that so and so
said we killed the taxi driver, I thought, and quite naively,
oh wow, this has got to be the person. Well
all these years on, no everybody in Aberdeen says they
know somebody who was killed the taxi driver. But as
I say, I don't need to discourage people from coming
in because the police have to check the will be
(12:56):
the right one, so you can't possibly.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I'm not saying that in any way form to discourage people.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But it's just amazing how often the talents.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No exactly, but no, you definitely don't want to discourage
them coming forward. In fact, you mentioned in one of
your posts that people can still get in touch with
you if they want to remain anonymous, and they're not
going to get into trouble either if they had no
information that they haven't passed on. Where do they stand
if they were to get in touch.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, don the police, I mean the police said, because
it was one of the first questions we asked the
police and setting this up, they said, look, we're not
interested on that, and they called it the greater good.
So look, if somebody's done something, they've been a burglar
or something, and they happened to they know about it
because they were they were doing a burglary with the
person that was police, aun'd interested in any way, shape
(13:43):
or form about that. I'm calling it an ancillary thing.
It's got nothing to do with the crime, nothing whatsoever.
I know Rubinus posted that, and we will continue to
tell them that no one is interested in that. Now,
some people might, of course they are. They're maybe just
saying that, but no, I can absolutely swear to the
fact that they would not be in any trouble from
(14:05):
anything else that has got nothing to do with this model,
I mean the.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Current d I and James Callen. This is a while back,
he says, in our opinion, He says, certainly in my opinion,
and he says, this would happen. A murder will always
trump anything else. So he says, he says, I don't
care what they've done. He said, I don't mean I
don't care. But he says, up against the murder, if
it's a case of you know, we'll get this guy
or they'll give us it other information, yet nothing, nothing
will happen to another thing.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's good. That's good to know. It's good to get
that out there because people might be frightened about that.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Absolutely it's very important. I mean, I can understand people thinking, oh,
you know, I either knew who it is or I
could give valuable information, but I'm scared to go forward
in case to say, well, you know. And also and
also other than you know, if they've done something, the
person might feel that police will say so why didn't
you come forward before? So there might be that angle too,
and they and we would just be happy if they
(14:55):
would just come forward at all. I don't care how
many years that have helped this or whatever. Just come forward.
Nobody's going to judge you or you know, look at
you differently or whatever. We would just be more than
happy to hear what you have to say. If it
turns out not to be the correct information, well that's fine.
It's somebody else who's dismissed, and so it's.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
All good, Robina, and I will guarantee them anonymity if
that's what they wish.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
I am always checking this Facebook page, and I always
always like to make sure I get back to people.
If they're good enough to contact us, I always like
to make sure I get back to them, and also
that they finally get answers from the police, because there
would be no use to be if somebody goes to
the bother. I mean, people of their own lives to lead.
We welcome, as Alex says, and we're grateful for their input,
(15:38):
very grateful indeed. But without them we wouldn't have any
Facebook page. It's almost like like their extended family. I
often see the same names coming in with likes and shares,
which is brilliant. So I kind of get to know
these people a little bit better. You know, they go
out of their way to initiate a conversations about this,
about this murder, and try and find her as much
as they can. And as I say, we appreciate every
(15:59):
single thing that everybody does for us.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Alec and Rabina really do value every single piece of
information shared with them on their Facebook page. They will
take everything that is shared with them seriously and pass
on to the detective in charge of the case, di
I James Calendar, who in turn will either investigate or
assure Alec and Rabina that that line of inquiry was
known about and had been dealt with. If the information
(16:23):
Rabina receives turns out to be incorrect, she will then
share this on Facebook so others know this information is
incorrect too. For example, someone got in touch on the
George Murder Murder Appeal Facebook page to inquire about a
rumor that they had heard about there having been a
chicken kebab left on the backseat of George's Texi on
the night of his murder. But a let Rabina tell
(16:45):
you about that in her own words, while Alex shared
a further longstanding rumor that has since been discovered to
also be incorrect.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
At the time, there were a lot of rumors about
We've had a few, not many. We've had a few
come in, you know, since we started the Facebook page.
But I've been aware of him, and I've been able
to explain, you know, yes, we heard that too. That
didn't work out or wasn't them because if this happened
the other that one I'd never heard before about the
chicken kebab or something. And I think the chap said
(17:15):
that a mate of his new one of the police
or something, and I thought, well, so a bit of respective,
I would have passed us on to the d IM.
I did pass it on to him. And as soon
as I told the DI I this, he says, no,
that this definitely didn't happen, and our officers wouldn't have
gone to whatever, blah blah blah. So he says, you
can tell you that the person called in that definitely,
(17:36):
that's definitely not truly. Maybe obviously he'd heard this and
it was it was good of him because he could
have been telling other people this maybe I already had done.
And again that's something else that can be debunked, you know.
And if he never came forward, you know, he or
some of his friends might be thinking, well, you know,
but what about this? So he did them and us
a favor because it stopped other people from thinking this
or from viewing, you know, if this and it wasn't true.
(17:59):
But it also gave closure to others who believed this
or who had heard of this. But I had never
heard of that one that was a new one. And
the few others we've heard, Yes, very seldom we get
something coming in like that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And the other one that was quite interesting. It was
about the reporter, the senior crime and investigation reporter, Brian Brutherford.
He uncovered something that was really interesting. Can you tell
us about that?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, well, at the time there was a big brew
ha ha, just from one offul Pettle words was that
nobody came forward until about six weeks after the murder
that someone in Mister Chips, which was about so maybe
about two three miles away from where the murder recurred,
someone had gone in there that night after the murder
and had blood cuts on his hand, face, blood, et cetera.
(18:44):
But it wasn't reported for six weeks. I never attached
any significance to that story. But this is again on
me putting myself in the murder. I said, well, who
would go in for a supper but we're not the murderer,
and seemingly they're so detached and it is possible they
could do that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
However, this guy, Brian Ruther for the Present General Reporter
had spoken to He said, I had gone into the
chip shop the night before, he said, and he was
catching hairs and skinning them, et cetera. And he had
blood on his hands, he says, and well, I can't remember,
(19:22):
he said, he may will have cut his hands, et cetera.
So he'd gone to Brian Ruther. Poor man wasn't well.
I'm not sure if he's if he passed, but anyway,
he was exonerated. It wasn't him, but the fact it
was the night before, it almost seems like that was
like because they want police wanted made away of that
for six weeks. It probably was this guy that went in,
(19:45):
but it was the previous night, so.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It could have just been either that the dates we're
so close but they were wrong, or it could still
have been you know that somebody else has been in
the No, it definitely wasn't that particular guy, and it
was good of him. He was actually terminally ill at
the time. It was good of him to, you know,
agree to speak to Brian Rutherford, so again all thanks
to him.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Alec and Rubina are always so appreciative for any tips
or information they receive and we'll always pass them on
to Detective James Calendar. So if you have heard a
rumor or have any information about this case, please contact
Alec or Rabina on their Facebook page George Murdoch Murder
Inquiry or email them at JD Halfield at mail dot
(20:26):
co dot uk. These details will be in the show notes. Okay,
So in the teaser in part one, we heard Ryan
say that it was announced by police that a DNA
profile of George's murderer had been acquired, which is absolutely
fantastic news. But there would be even more fantastic news
to come. Let's hear from Ryan about those developments.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I interviewed a couple of the forensic scientists physic pathologists
that work in the case, and the work these guys
do is just phenomenal. It's just it's just it's just incredible.
But they have worked in this DNA they haven't They've
never released where the DNA came from, whether it was
from the cheeseware itself or don't. I don't know, but
(21:06):
there there was an item there in the taxi or
around George that they did extract DNA from. So in
twenty twenty three, on the forty anniversary of the murder,
they made public that they have DNA of the killer,
but that person isn't on the database. So without that
person being arrested and having a DNA sample taken, that's
(21:29):
not going to help the police. So it's not as
much as as that was a significant lead. It's one
piece of other jig so that but then they need
to find out who that DNA belongs to. Without that identity,
that they won't know. But then from what I've read them,
from what I've seen since since the podcast was released,
they've managed to work on that DNA and develop that
(21:50):
and now what they have is they have a familial DNA,
which means that basically the DNA sample they have now
could be linked to a relt of his and there
was at the time they said there was two hundred
possible genetic matches. So wants to go through through their database.
They've done a public appeal and also think what's really
(22:12):
important is that since the DNA has come out now,
it means that if somebody out there thinks that their
brother or their dad, or their nephew or whoever son
where it was involved. They don't need now to go
to the place and say I think this person was
involved and think this think that that will never be
able to get proven or disproved. So that sample. That
(22:33):
means if somebody does come forward and say I think
it was X or Y, the police can go to
this DNA sample now and say yes it was or
no it wasn't. So for somebody out there that might
think they know who did it, there's now a way
of one hundred percent confirming whether they are correct or
are incorrecting in their assumption. I think that must be
(22:54):
a huge That must be a huge thing for somebody,
because somebody doesn't want to go to the place and
accuse somebody of this horrific crime if there's a chance
that it might not be able to get proven or not.
But now it can.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So they can just go themselves to the police and
say you know, it could be my relative or search
my frite. Yeah, and they can get swabbed themselves. Yeah,
if you can sent to give a sample upon request
of your DNA to the police who are willing to
travel the length and bread of the country for this.
If that sample leads to the police identifying George Murddugs killer,
then that person will receive ten thousand pounds reward. However,
(23:28):
there is also another reward of fifty thousand pounds which
will be paid to anyone who comes forward with information
that leads to the confirmed identity of George Muddug's killer.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And you know what, that's not the reason why somebody
should do it. Somebody should do because it's the right
thing to do. But at the same time, let's be honest,
it is an incentive and hopefully that will continue to
me that the police gets strong leads because there is
an incentive out there for somebody to really help the
police to finally crack this case.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Let's find out a little bit more about the two
hundred people the police will initially be wanting to compare
the DNA profile with what stage they are at with
this now, what the next steps are, and just how
much it means to Alec and Robina, as well as
what it means for the case that the police now
have Georgia's killers DNA profile.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
To talk about the two hundred do I mean it's
like everything. It's a slow process and I mean, we
can't thank it police enough for doing what they're doing.
But if there's any live current murder inquiry, that's where
the police resources will go to. So the cold case
gets moved back rightfully. So so then when the police
(24:38):
have some time, they'll come back to do this. They have,
they've been very active in terms of that. First and
I'm saying first Tronchi at two hundred because it's not
the last tronchoat two hundred. So they'll go they'll they
set parameters from the National Crime Database. Obviously science is
part of it. There'll be other us that they've set
(25:01):
in their age and all the other things that would
go with that, but they've been out collecting that and
then it goes to the forensic scientist who's busy in
the base case. Okay, it's not like they've been sitting
waiting for this to come in and saying, oh goodye,
I've got some work to do. It's like overwhelmed and
they're really busy. So that just adds to the time
(25:24):
lapse of everything that goes on. But once they get
through that two hundred dawn and there's been no hits
that's not the end of it. There's other and I
don't know the number. The police have been brilliant sharing
information with us, but they won't share everything with us,
and that's absolutely quite right. We accept that they do
keep us up to date with certain things, but they've
(25:47):
obviously got to be very guarded in terms of what
they're telling, even us, even though I think we've got
built up a great relationship with them, So they have
to kind of not tell his everything. So at any
given time, being to d I James calendar, he couldn't
say to us because I would ask nearly an answer,
but I would say, okay, of the two hundred, how
(26:08):
many of you got so far as one hundred and
seventy one hundred eight. No, you won't get into that
kind of detail. It just takes a little bit of
a time in terms of that. And I was going
to say time is one thing we have, but of
course we don't. Rebin and I aren't on spring chickens anymore.
And I've said it before Tom, we're the last generation
(26:29):
that really cares. They knew them enough to care, DoD
and Jesse, We'll continue this for as long as we
possibly can. But when we're gone. The police will still continue,
but there'll come a time I think the law of
diminishing returns of set in when you've just exhausted everything.
(26:49):
But the good thing is about having the DNA, and
this is this is one thing that's pleased me no
end about the police being able to get that. If
they didn't have this and someone came forward and said
it's person X, well, without having a DNA, that would
never ever have got to court because it'd be one
person's word, and it's one person's word about something that
(27:10):
happened forty plus years ago. It would never stack up,
so you'd never be able to tell. But now you
can definitively say yeah, no, say it is this person
because the DNA doesn't lie. So that's been real helpful,
and obviously getting the DNA to an extent that they
can do familiar is very, very very helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Now we've heard throughout this episode and part one a
number of theories about what type of person George's killer
could have been, and the psychologist around spoke to for
his podcast Who Is the Cheeseware Killer? Had another one,
but Sodor Rubina Alec and both the former detective who
worked in the case and the current lead detective, and
it just so happens that they all have the same belief.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
On Ryan's podcast, he interviewed them as psychologist and her
theory was that stranguly usually involves people who want ultimate control.
It's a controlling kind of form of killing somebody, people
who want to exact control. And she says the killer
may have been thinking, I'm not gonna let this guy,
his victim, get the better of me, so I'm going to,
(28:14):
you know, silence him at all costs. Now, I'm not
sure I can understand her saying that in Dodd's case,
I don't think by this time Dodd would have been
putting up any resistance at all. Plus the fact and
I'm not sure if this is got out much. Jesse,
his wife, Dodd's wife, she never was keening him taking
up tax saying anyway. She always thought it could lead
to problems, you know, she could be he could be
(28:36):
attacked or whatever. And poor Jesse was always terrified that
he might be attacked. She was particularly wary and scared
about this when he was on night shift, which of
course he was that particular night. But Dodd always said
to her, look Jess, you know, don't worry about this.
If somebody tries to rob me or whatever, I'll just
tell look, take the money, to take the money and go.
So it's not like Dodd would have put up resistance
(28:58):
if the guy had said to him I want you.
I can't imagine you would say that, because instantly that
would put nod An alert. I think he just put
this wire around his neck without any warning whatsoever. But
irrespective if you had said that, Dodd, they said, Okay,
here's the money.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Go.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
So it's so sad because what Jesse always was terrified
would happen was she didn't expect him to be killed,
but absolutely ended up being the case.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
You know, I think it was James Calender way back
he felt this will be be solved by the signs.
He also said, and so did Gary Winder. They felt
that the person's probably somewhere. If you go into their
ten thousand statements and interviews, they said, it's probably somebody.
It's in there because at that time, of course, no DNA,
(29:43):
no no CCTV, nothing. All you had was going and
interviewing somebody and if they had a valid alibi or
decent alibi based on what you thought came across as
being somebody that was quite open, et cetera. Case closed
in terms of that person. They've not looked at again
even did you go back to the Yorkshire Ripper And
I don't know how many times he was interviewed by
(30:05):
the police and then of course they ended up being him.
So they've always thought it's probably somebody in there, and
it might be. I think there's maybe a good chance,
maybe ninety percent chance, but there's also that ten percent
chance it was just somebody in Aberdeen at that time
and fled pretty quickly to somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The police at the time did I think it was
ten thousand house house calls? They colluded eight thousand witness statements.
There are boxes and boxes and files and files. And
this is one thing that really stood out to me
tuning out when interviews Alex Dodd's nephew, is that he
firmly believes in one of those witness statements is the
key that could solve this case. It's just extracting that
(30:46):
piece and the case has moved forward. There are several
leads that police are looking at, and that's the leads
that they made public. Who knows what other leads they
have actually currently because they don't release everything stood away,
they kind of exhaust all avenues to go through a
process of elimination, and only once they've carried that out
they then make that public to try and open that
out to a wider community, into the wide audience. So
(31:08):
there could be things And I have absolutely no internoledge
of what's happened, of what's happened now in the case.
I never have that intenoledge of what's going on within
the case that's not in the public domain. But I
really hope there is something strong there that they are
currently investigating that will lead to the discovery of Dodd's killer.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Rabina and Alec have received many tips through their Facebook page,
all of which do get passed on to the lead
detective and followed up and eliminated. But I wondered just
how receiving these tips makes Alec and Rabina feel.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, the initial reaction is always a little bit
of elation that this might be the person, yeah, and
that sometimes ebbs away slowly when more information comes in,
and so over time you kind of get a little
less enthusiastic about that. And as I mentioned earlier, there
are have been a number of tips and you kind
(32:03):
of have a lot of highs and lows with it.
You're able tomntalize it as we've been able to do.
This has now been this is a tenth year of this.
Now we didn't expect quick results, but I think in
our hearts and our heads we thought it would be
solved before this time. That doesn't make it say that
we're knocked back, et cetera. Because the one big tip
(32:24):
is just around the corner and done. The fact that
you're doing this in the reach that you have, the newspapers,
the television media, the radio, et cetera. It just takes
one person. And going back to all the tips for
Bena mentioned the two hundred tips from that twenty eighteen
media blitz that came from all over the world. And
(32:45):
so sometimes somebody is sitting at their keyboard, they're fed
up there. I don't know where they are. They're in Darwin,
Australia or something like that, and they're hankering a home
in Scotland because they burn an Aberdeen at that time.
Maybe come from Aberdeen, and they say, come across this
Facebook appeals page and they come across something about the
more done say, oh, I remember that, and I remember this,
(33:06):
and I remember this person, etc. Bang a tip comes
in and it just one of these days, it just
might be the right tip. I think as well.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
We were obviously never done this before, thankfully, but we
were probably naive. We didn't know what to expect, which
was why the first couple of times when we hear
somebody said they'd killed you know, this actor driver, you
tended to pretty much believe, at least I did. And
then as to say, the more often you get these
reports coming in, you're instantly a bit suspect, not from
(33:35):
the person who calls it in, but as to how
this will turn out. So you kind of temper your
your so much and basically you know, so when I
passed this on to the DII, I'm kind of waiting
for him to come back and say, yeah, they've been eliminated,
which has happened so much, or we still need to
trace this person. My initial reaction now is never, I
(33:58):
bet they're going to come back and say this is
you know. I hope that will be the case, and
one day it will, but that's not my reaction now.
Whereas when this first started, it was all this I'm waiting,
and I'm kind of chasing up and saying, have.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
You heard anything yet?
Speaker 4 (34:12):
So it's a natural progression that you go from being
on those highs to well, hopefully it's going to be him,
but I don't expect it will be because it would
be too good.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
If it was.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So, Yeah, it's good actually because you're for me anyway.
I don't know how you you're not in this constant
high low kind of thing. You know, you kind of
even out and you think, you know, let's.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Hope, let's hope.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
So it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
It is good, But the one thing is where and
I hope it comes across. We're not jaded. We're absolutely
not the Hope springs eternal, and we're ten years into it.
We're still there.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
For fact, the longer it goes on, the more intense
I get. Yeah, you know, like the psychologist whom I
refer to with Ryan said that the guy it was like,
you know, his attitude was, he's this person Dodd isn't
going to get the better of me. Well that's exactly
how I feel. The this depraved, sick individual, he's not
going to get the better of us. Whether he's dead
or that, it doesn't matter, you know, with familial DNA,
(35:07):
now the police can still hopefully if we get a
name the guy's dead, they can still hopefully trace food.
Is A name would do it for me, because if
we got a name and the guy had died so
there will be no court case or whatever, that would
be suffice for me. I mean, we'll have to be realistic.
Where will be forty two years in September. Yeah, there's
a chance that he could have died, and particularly if
(35:28):
he led a depraved sort of life, but that's okay.
I'm not bothered about that. So whether there's a court
case or not, so long as we get a name,
all this will be worth it for me as far
as I'm concerned. And I've always felt that. I remember
telling Gary Winter that at the start, and I think
it looked at me like it was crazy. But a
name will do it, and that for me would give
Dodd some justice.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
While there have been many appeals over the years for
information into who killed George Murdock, something that Alex and
Rabina think about is how they would fail and what
they would do if they had suspicions that someone they
knew or loved could perhaps be a murderer. Moral dilemma
or easy decision? What would you do?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I think quite interesting because we're often appealing to somebody
to come forward, and I definitely believe somebody else knows,
other than the killer, who it was, and it's kind
of a moral dilemma. And I say it myself, well,
look if it was my brother that did it and
I knew, would I come forward? And the honest answer is,
and I think it'd be the honest answer for most
people is either they wouldn't or they don't know how
(36:30):
they would react. I think the person would say, yeah,
I absolutely would come forward. Well they might if they
if they hated their brother or son, etc. But I
think most people probably wouldn't. But Rabina mentioned the killer
may will be dead now, and I think that changes thing.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Now.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
All they're doing by not coming forward is protecting the
memory of their individual other brother or what have you,
or whoever. They're only protecting their memory. And I think
at that time a bit like Rabina mentions some of
these previous people that had been in prison, that they
felt they didn't want to take it to the brave
and I would hope that somebody, and I would hope
(37:08):
I would have the courage that was somebody in my
family to do that as well. But it's a moral
dilemma because I don't know if many.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
People would I agree poleheartedly with that. I'm probably the same.
I mean, if it was my dad, who was exceptionally
close to I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.
I do think it would alter how you looked at
that person again, and if it was strong enough, or
if you were disgusted enough with the act, maybe they
would find it in their heart to come forward. But
I understand their loyalty and I think they need to
be commended. But we need to make a distinction here.
(37:37):
This guy, he didn't just break into a shop or whatever.
He actually killed another human being. He took Jesse's life,
you know, her husband away. He didn't just kill DoD.
He actually killed the life Jesse had with her husband too.
He's affected both people here. Now, if he has any
sense of care or somebody for whatever, or the person
who knows who did this, that might be suffice for them.
But going out with that family, going out with that
(38:00):
close tie, maybe a neighbor who has always held high
suspicions that it could have been the guy next door,
or the father next door, whatever, These are the people
we would appeal to to come forward because they don't
have that same loyalty. So forget about the close family.
You know, yes it's difficult to break that tie, but
maybe not so difficult for a neighbor, for the milkman,
a friend who was you know, a high suspicion, So
(38:22):
do come forward. Nobody will ever know who came forward. Nobody,
absolutely not. I mean that's one hundred percent correct. But
you could just be doing as a favor here. It
could turn out to be the person you've always suspected.
And if it doesn't, well that's kind of like a
load lifted off you as well. The other thing worse
than thinking it could be somebody you know and you
know you've held this all these years, so it's a
(38:44):
release for them too, So you know, there's other ways
of looking at it.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I think for myself, just you know, I think it
would be an awful burden for a person just thinking
if it was it was my family member, and you know,
it's the case is it's out there now, it's and
everywhere now, and you're seeing that, and it would be
a heavy load on my shoulders, you'd always have this
balance in it. I think it would ruin your.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Life, always have it. And I remember a few things
I read over years back. It can affect your health.
You know this because it's always there. And as you say,
the case is everywhere you know, and I mean you
don't know when you're going to see something in the
paper again. I often wonder how these people who are
holding this individual close to their heart, who are so
loyal to him, how they felt, first of all when
(39:24):
the DNA announcement came. I mean that must have been
a huge, huge blow to think that, you know, he's
never going to be discovered. Now suddenly they'll get DNA.
And then now with the familial the police say has
a one and four chance of being successful. That's I
used to say to the DII by yes one and four.
And he says, that's pretty pretty high odds Overbina, he says,
(39:45):
you know, it's we're not speaking like you know history. Yeah,
he says, that's pretty good. And the police have been
going all over the UK. I mean, you know, from
top to bottom of the British isles. They're not just
going within Aberdeen, butever all over. So who knows, you know,
at least it's better than not having anything at all
to go with. So if that person out there wants
(40:06):
to come forward when they could claim the fifty thousand,
if it doesn't matter if it's if interested them or not,
they would get the money irrespective, So they could come
forward and get the money, or if they don't, it'll
be solved by signs and they won't get anything. That's
their choice to make.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
You have to bring it back to George and Jesse.
George fifty eight, Jesse is fifty six at the time,
and George just taken away from his wife. His wife
made a widow, and she never ever recovered. She suffered
ill health after that because I think she I think
she basically unfortunately died of a broken heart. And that's
what you have to remember too, is that there's two
people here. Their lives were ruined, and all the people
(40:42):
family around them, George's nephew and niece, the other family members,
his neighbor. George and Jesse made such an impact of
so many people's lives, and no one deserves what happened.
It happened to them, But for a couple of that
it's just I think it just makes it makes it
slightly more more sadder if possibly can, And maybe that
sounds insensitive to other people, that I've lost somebody in
(41:04):
this terrible circumstances, but so sad. If anybody out there
has any idea who did this, I cannot say this
strong enough. Please get in touch with Please Scotland do
the right thing. You can do that anonymously, or have
a look at the George Murdoch Facebook page. Just go
to Facebook starts George Murdoch. You can contact the family
(41:26):
through the Facebook page and there's an email dress there
too that people can email. And every single lead, every
single email is taken seriously because it has to, because
it just takes one piece of information that can finally
unlock the truth. Hopefully we will get just as soon.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
If you have any information at all, have heard a
rumor have a theory, or have always had a feeling
that someone you know may have been involved with George
Murdock's murder, please contact Rabina and Alec anonymously or otherwise
by visiting the George Murdock Murdered appeal on Facebook page,
or by emailing JD Halfield at mail dot co dot
(42:04):
uk or contact Police Scotland on one oh one, even
if you don't know anything. Alec and Robina would be
so grateful if you've visited the facebook page and shared
their posts. The more we talk about and share the
details of George Murdock's murder, the more chance there is
that this story will reach just the person who holds
the key piece of information or has a name of
(42:26):
a person they have long thought to be involved. You
can find out more about George and his wife Jesse
by reading The Last Fair written by Rabina Mackay, by
listening to and sharing Ryan's podcast Who Is the Cheesewire Killer,
or by regularly visiting and sharing Raubina's posts on the
George murderch Murder Appeal Facebook page. All links will be
(42:48):
in the show notes. Thank you for listening, sharing and
helping to keep fifty eight year old George Murdock's murder
in the public eye. Here's final thoughts from Alec and
you know.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
Any tip that they have, even if they think it's
totally absurd and they think they're wasting our time, because
it just might be a little sliver of information that
really helps the police. I've always kind of just described
it as like this is a bunch of dots, but
none of us can see how they join up. But
(43:22):
that might just be the one piece that helps us
join up all the dots.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
So if they have any inkling in terms of who
they think, it might be, any bits of information on somebody,
that somebody might have said something, even though it might
have came like about from five stages away that a
friend of a friend of a friend of a friend
of a friend, I'd heard this, so it's a rumor, etc.
But come forward with it, because that could be just
(43:47):
the thing that helps us solve the case.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
There is still an awful lot of information out there.
It's trying to find that button to encourage people to
come forward. Don't think this is nothing any interest in them,
It might just be. Don't be hesitant to come forward.
It doesn't matter. It might sound silly to you, it
might sound like it's nothing. It could actually turn out
to be the one thing we're waiting for, we've been
(44:10):
waiting for all these years, So don't worry about that.
Please come forward. You'll always be treated respectfully. I guarantee
you'll get answers. We'll get back to you, and if
you want any anonymity, no questions asked. We don't care
your reasons for it. We will absolutely, one hundred percent
guarantee it. It only will be between us nobody else.
It'll be treated in strictest confidence. And we really really
(44:31):
would appeal to you. You know, if you take it
to yourself. You know, if you were in our situation.
Hopefully you never will be and it never have been.
But how would you feel. You know, if you've got
this long murder case which hasn't been solved, you would
want to get it solved for that person. Dog can't
dressed in peace. We're his last hope. So we will
just continue on. Nothing will dissuade us. And as to say,
(44:52):
no matter how many disappointments, whatever, We're just going to
hang in there. I will never give up. If ever
that comes of time when the police say, look, you
know we've done all we can. There isn't much more
we can do, well, I'll think of something to do
somehow or other. I can't let this go. We may
never get our resolution. I think we will, to be honest,
but we may not. And it doesn't matter either way.
We will keep going, both of us will keep going.
(45:18):
Scottish Murders is a production of chlorin tone
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