True Crime Podcasters Roundtable: True Crime Podcasters Share Their Experiences

True Crime Podcasters Roundtable hosts Adam and Paul are joined by guests Dawn and Naomi to explore the intricacies of true crime podcasting. The discussion covers the ethical responsibilities of narrating sensitive cases, the influence of listener feedback, and the delicate balance between humour and respect for victims. The panel also examines the UK prison system, debating early release policies and alternative punishments. Personal experiences with negative reviews and the importance of empathy in storytelling are also shared, as well as highlighting the necessity for responsible content creation and the supportive role of the podcasting community.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I hope everybody has had a lovely Christmas. Now I know.
I said we'd be releasing a new episode today regarding
an unresolved murder from Glasgow in nineteen eighty five. However,
I've been struck down with my annual obligatory eight month
long illness, throat infections, chest infections and asthma problems, so
I've not been able to do any work or research.

(00:21):
So instead, today's episode is one I recorded on the
UK True Crime Podcast with Adam back in October, along
with Paul from the True Crime Enthusiast podcast and Naomi
from The Real Podcast. It's just a round table episode
recorded back in October. You might have already heard it
on Adam's show, but I thought i'd play it here
as well. I hope everybody has a lovely New Year

(00:41):
when it comes around, and we'll be back in February
with new episodes.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello and welcome to the True Crime Podcast is around
table for October. My name's Adam and the house of
the UK True Crime Podcast. I'm joined by my usual
co houst Paul from the True Crime enthusas Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Paul, Hello all him, Adam, Naomi, I see.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
You, and we got too fantastic guests this month. Really
excited to meet them both. Firstly, Dawn, the hosts of
Scottish Murders hid On.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Well, yeah, Paul Henaomi.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And of course you know you know Naomi because you
did a special together a while ago, didn't you.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, we did. We did a good one. And look
Mitchell and Georgie Jorns, wasn't it, Naomi?

Speaker 5 (01:25):
Following your yeah, the North and South collided on.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm talking to which from God's own County, Essex. Naomi. Welcome, Hi, Hello,
good to see you. Thanks for joining us this evening.
So the format today we're going to last for about
an hour. Thank you everyone for joining us and I
really appreciate your time this evening. Let's start off with
a subject that we've all brought to the table tonight.
Should we go to Let's go to Naomi first, Nami,

(01:54):
what was that to talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
First?

Speaker 5 (01:56):
So, something that has that has come about, probably in
the last year I've noticed more is that the safeguarding
of my own listeners so into so in my day job,
I work as a TV producer and we're very very
regulated by Offcom and by other charities where we if

(02:17):
we have a contributor on the show, for example. So
I've produced some true crime content and some other reality
shows that maybe you've watched or haven't watched. We're talking
about those, but they we have a real, real duty
of care to the people that we have on our shows,
and as well as that, we also have a duty
of care to the public. So obviously OFCOM regulates us

(02:40):
very strictly in TV. In podcasting, I know we've got
a moral and ethics code that some of us follow
and some don't. But I have noticed that I have
had a real influx of listeners who contact me on
social media and they they really open up and they'll
share ex experiences, and it's usually off the back of

(03:01):
an episode. So so say, for example, if I've done
one on stalking, a case with stalking, then I will
it's usually a guarantee that I will get some listeners
come and say, you know, God, I was that was
really hard to listen to because I was a victim
of stalking, or maybe it was if there was domestic
violence involved in a case. You know, they might say,

(03:21):
oh goodness, you know that that really brought it home
for me. I was a victim, I escape and and
it's I've really noticed recently how important it is to
sort of safeguard the listeners. And I know that we
all put warnings, you know, on our episodes and trigger warnings,
et cetera. But I just I wondered what everyone else does,

(03:42):
because I have so far have made always I will
talk to every single person that messages and give them
you know, they've given time to listen to our episode,
so I want to give them time back. But it's
also knowing when you know, you can leave a sympathetic
hear but they've in a few times so people have
disclosed really serious situations that I wouldn't be equipped to

(04:05):
professionally help with. So you know, I try and then
signpost them to an organization. And I just wondered if
that was something that happens across the board, and if so,
how do you how do you handle that?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
That's a really good question, isn't it, Paul, What do
you think?

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well? Yeah, so that for that, Naomi. I think I've
been approached in the past by family members of victims
of cases that I've discussed, and one specifically that I
covered a couple of years ago, the case of Guppi
and Malkki the railway killers, all right, so infamous case.

(04:46):
Not only was our approach by a member of one
of the victims' families, who complimented on the talent of it,
but somebody also got in touch as well. It's I
believe it's someone we met Adam our live show. I
won't name any names or anything, but who claimed that
his sister had been a victim of possibly Molkai as well.

(05:10):
And he was quite shocked from hearing the tale, and
he wondered what I could do about it, and I
was at a bit of a loss, and the only
thing I had said to him was totally honest. I said,
the only thing you can do is go to your
local police report this. It's doubtful that anything would get
done because of the lack the length of clim about it.

(05:33):
I don't think she was sexually tulted or fell I
think nearly was. From the sounds of the description. It
was Moki. But that's the best. And sometimes you do
feel a bit helpless like that, because it sounds a
bit of a bit of a brush off of just
go and tell the police. But what else do you do?

(05:54):
There is no other facility in place. To deal with
something like this is there and yeah, so it does happen,
and that's all I can do, really is just be
honest and speak to someone as a friend of mine
had come and paid that to me while we're having
a pint or something like that. But yeah, so I

(06:16):
think what that brought home to me was that the
tales that we cover, how far they do reach, they
might unlock something in someone, they bring home to a
lot of people and if that kind of if that
brings things to the foe that they might have varied
for a long time and it helps them to be

(06:37):
ready to deal with them, then you know, how does
that not spur you on to just keep doing what
you do? Yees completely?

Speaker 5 (06:45):
Yeah, absolutely, it's hard, isn't it. It's a it's some
of the some of the content that we cover is
obviously extremely dark and disturbing, and potentially, you know, they
haven't confronted it can fronted. It might be and that's
happened a few times as well, so sometimes you might
be the first person that they discussed something too. And

(07:08):
that's that's that's really tough, really really tough.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's a really good point.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Oh sorry, you carry on, please no, I was just
going to say it's it's a good point. It was
brought to my attention the podcast show Beck in May
that what no on is brought up about having to
support people that come on your show, especially because they're
you know, if it's family members or somebody involved in
that case, it can be affecting them. So that was

(07:34):
brought to my attention. It was something I hadn't thought
off before. It's just something I didn't think of. So
if I do have people in my on my podcast
that's to do with that case, then I will signpost
them to you know, you know, if they want to
speak further about it to somebody else, because I'm not qualified.
But that's another I didn't think of. I don't have

(07:54):
anybody messaging me personally about stories. But that's actually, you know,
nice that you brought that up with something to prepare
myself for.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
That depends on the story though. On that depends on
the story of the next story that you pull out.
Mike resonate with someone so much that they think, you know,
for bringing Yeah, I think I think if anybody gets
to talk with any of us to do with Scott

(08:25):
like that is the testament to our storytelling. I really
do what what what privilege to be kind of in
that position and that and.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
That's when things that podcasting and I find it so off.
The podcast that I listened to I listen to a lot,
is that I feel very much that the people I'm
listening to, I feel like I know them because it's
a very intimate form of communication.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Right absolutely here, you know, aren't me? And actually I've
listened to all of yours and you've all got such
a lovely tone and delivery, which I think is so key,
isn't it, which you don't always get And I think
especially people in Britain as well, when they hear a
British voice, sometimes when they hear American voices, they can

(09:10):
perhaps feel, you know, they really feel the distance. Or
if they hear an Australian voice, they'll feel the distance.
But when it's right on your on your doorstep, and
you feel you could sound like someone's neighbor, then yeah,
it's it is. Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I think you've got to have a passion for it, though,
haven't you. You have to have a pack if you
if you if your passion for it isn't displayed in
how you come across, why would any body bother getting
in touch with you? I have the same thing with
like some shows that advertise themselves as true crime and comedy. Now, personally,

(09:46):
anybody who advertises themselves as comedy is about as for
you as being bank frauded. I think I find it
quite obscene that the two things are molded into. It's
not only subject, it's the most devastating subject to at

(10:09):
least so long. Yeah, so you know how to make
a mockery of that.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
So that was my quest. That was actually my question, Paul,
and I wanted to see you. Well, it's nice to
know your thoughts now, but I was going to ask
what your opinions were on true crime podcasts that actually
do have humor in them, because when I first started out,
I did it with my sister initially, and it was
never a comedy podcast, but she would I was never

(10:36):
joking about the victims. It was always respectful, but she
would inject a little bit of dream. I remember, to
have a laugh, not about the victim, about situations and
stuff like that, and item to a lot of people
seem to like that kind of thing. It didn't sit
well with me. So when she said she didn't want
to do the podcast anymore. Obviously I was heartbroken, but yeah,
at the same time because I got to do what's

(10:56):
that well with me? Which is, you know, I don't
there's no jokes, there's no humor. But people did say
that they enjoyed that side of it, and obviously that
our podcasts out there that are humanous as well. So
what are your thoughts? Is there a way to do
it that's not disrespectful because a lot of comedians, they
have got podcasts and they do true crayme. Does that work?

(11:17):
Should it just be comedians or should it not be
at all?

Speaker 3 (11:20):
What's your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh, come on, mammy, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (11:25):
Just see, they are two genres that should just never
mix because it's you know that is so we're all
somebody's child, We're all somebody's friend. If some of us
have children, the thought of them. There is a popular

(11:47):
podcast now I'll never I'll never name names. There's a
popular one where there are some really inappropriate things and
I've read their reviews and people are picking up on it.
Now there's some really tasteless jokes and also just a
bad times. You know, they're halfway through describing something that
is utterly horrific, and then something will come in and

(12:07):
then they'll be laughter, and it feels so jarring to
hear that, because you just if you're an empathetic person,
which actually I think so many true crime listeners are.
I think we have a lot of sympathy, and I
know that every time I've done an episode where there's
been a call to action. So if I've had someone's
loved one on and there's a petition for example, or

(12:27):
there's a go fundme or something, my listeners have really
scot behind it. And I've seen that empathy play out
and that sympathy and to think that somebody would make
light of that. It's also I remember there was one
victim's sister and I said, thank you so much for
letting me sort of cover the story. I said, has

(12:49):
anyone ever else ever approached you? And someone else had,
but it was someone who did their makeup whilst telling
the story. And there is obviously an audience for it,
because the viewing figures are incredibly high, and it's not
not to go in any person because actually most of
the time yet that you know that the respect is
there and the tone and delivery. Like I say, it's okay,

(13:10):
But the thought of putting on scarra while I'm talking
about somebody being tortured or or you know, the police
doing something wrong and the family have been in this
horrible limbo for a long time, it just doesn't just
doesn't add up for me.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
So that's true. I think, Well, I really feel wrong
about this. I think we should name names. I mean,
Mike murder myle doing his makeup while telling stories. It's
well out of order. He needs to get.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
What I'm always most amazed with Mike when he's doing
that is how he manages to support my scar on
and tell a story while he's doing that, because I
have never in my life a meout a woman who
can't who doesn't need to do that when the poem
is gar So you're a pioneer. Well he's probably not.

(13:58):
He's not listening now or watching Adam is Z's makeup
shopping or.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
What about you, Paul, Come on, I mean I've spent
nights with you. That sounds wrong, doesn't it. I spent
time in the bars with you, and yeah, you're a
funny guy, same as Mike. Right. What's your view on
comedy and podcast and true crime podcast me.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
How am I funny? What fuck is so funny about me? Yeah? No, no, no,
that's a good fellas there that was and failed miserably.
The only thing me and Joe peshy As we were
about the same size. But I think in humor in shows.
I mean, over the years i've been I've had a

(14:41):
lot of people and one of the logos of my
my show I have t shirts with on is a
shamble of bollocks, which happened to sort of same one day.
But I speak on my show as I would do
if I wasn't recording, So I'll say things like, but
I'm talking about someone I've discussed, like a criminal who's

(15:02):
been really stupid. I'll say, almost to myself, said your
mum must have been a weightlifter to raise a fucking
dumb bell like you, and people just latch onto that
they love it, you know, And there are all sorts
of things. I think something else I said many years
ago was discussing bad choices in partners. I think I said,

(15:22):
I'm not Bruce Lee, but I've entered a few dragons
in my time, and like that, do you know what
I mean? And I think something like that. If it's
not at the expense of a victim or anything, I
think that's fine, you know, but always showed with respect
and stand by my reviews. With all that. You can

(15:44):
have a bit of forming, a bit of light, but
time and a place and it has to fit into it.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
Timing is okay, isn't it? Probably it's yeah, yeah, absolutely,
well it's I reckon.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I used to and tell I'm not very funny. Okay,
as you know, Paul, but I'm not very funny. But
I used to try and tell a lot of jokes
early on, and I got into all these situations. So
for example, I did one case about it's a Rochdale
sauna and I still half joke about it now, but
I feel more and more uncomfortable about it every time.
Whereas some guy actually forced his partners to go to

(16:20):
this sauna in Rochdale and have lots of experiences there
that she didn't want to have. I mean, it's really
really awkward. But then everyone's always say to me about
Rochdale saunas and all the rest of it, and I
don't know, it's really difficult. And this is probably five
six years ago, this first happened, and I feel more

(16:41):
and more uncomfortable about it every time. And I think
that's how it is, though, is it? Because it's especially
if you're having a murder case. It's the worst thing
that's ever happened for a family. And who the hell
are we to be laughing and making jokes about anything
to do with that? Is that rageous? Really, isn't it.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
Yeah, I've listened to all of you, and I don't
I wouldn't think, you know, I wouldn't say that any
of you were in that that that category. There are
some that just take it just quite far and it's
so uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
There's one that we this name names. There's one that
we used to listen to, so I take the mickey
out of in our little Facebook group and it's called
Boozy bizarre and whatever it is. And they do a murder.
I think it's a father and a boy and his
mum and they do a drink and they do a
bizarre thing and a murder, And to me, it just

(17:40):
blows my mind how anyone one can think that's a
great idea and to how the hell would you listen
to that?

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, there's no pathing whatsoever that's just reaching on for
the same as people putting make up on and telling
true crime. True crime is massively is the genre that
will never ever die. I don't think it happens. Every
single day something new is happening. I'm sure the rest

(18:11):
of you, like myself, will have enough tails that you
know of to keep you going, probably till the end
of your days if you wanted to, of course will
it will never People jump on that to see every
documentary on Netflix everything like that. I think, right, okay,
well I'll do this and I'll just put my makeup on,

(18:31):
and all they care about is the viewing figures. It
doesn't have to be accurate, it has to get them
up there on YouTube like that. I find that quite obscene.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Really, no, no, but that brings something said. We've discussed this,
mean Paul quite a lot. I wonder how you feel
done and know me about it is. So for example,
I might see a case I cover. It might be
covered in the tabloids as sex star, transvesti murders, blah

(19:03):
blah blah, and I might cover it and call it instead.
I might call it an awful tragedy. Just take that that.
I can't get the word out that hyper bodia out
of it. And I know with you you're very much
like that and you're not into the sensational. No, not
at all.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
I'm quite bored in with my tatles. It's it's just
it's always about No, it's always about the victims, always there.
It's just plain and simple. There's no not, no sensational.
It's I'm not doing really well because I don't want
sensationalize anything. I don't.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
I'm just a passion for it, Dawn, don't you. Yeah,
that's why you're always smash it will. You got that passion.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
But it's but I know that's just that's not for
me at all. That's why I was on your opinion
about the joking one I am joking in the episodes
early on, I always think should I redo them with
just me? Because you know, I don't want to offend them.
But I think that's the journey in a little bit.
But no, so it's I don't want to sensationalize or

(20:12):
take away from the victim. That's so I think what
you're doing.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
And that's interesting. When we speak to Bob and Ally,
it's twisted Britain. They cover really old cases and the
reason they cover really old cases One they're both history
buffs and know their stuff. But number two, they don't
want to offend anyone that's living.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, so what about you?
Because you cover quite now only you cover quite up
to date one? Sometimes how how is that for you? Then?
As opposed to the older ones?

Speaker 5 (20:43):
I think, do you know what I have it? When
you've had a Because my career has been in television,
which is all current and up to date, I think
things that maybe might intimidate somebody new coming into this
from from a different kind of job where you don't
have to approach people cold and go in. And it

(21:04):
was really nerve wracking in the beginning because I was
approaching people. But I've not had I've either been ignored,
which has happened a couple of times, which is fine.
I just think they're they're not ready, and it's usually
I'll only approach people for a couple of reasons. Number one,
if there is something for them for them to be gained.

(21:26):
So if I'm working, if I do my deep dives,
for example, I'll think about who's closest to them, and
if they're not a potential suspect or enabler in a
missing person or in death. Then I'll ask them and
I'll say, what would you like to get out of this?
Next week, I have got a four part series coming

(21:47):
out on a missing man and he's been missing since
July and his mum, his people contacted me and they said,
we have been recommended podcast to do a bit of
a deep dive into it. We're getting no press. It
was all ready to go a couple of weeks ago,

(22:08):
and then the mum had was really struggling with her son,
you know, who's who's gone missing, and so we put
it on pause and I give I give them full control,
So I give them all of the episodes before they
can make any changes. I will obviously fact check them,
and they know that. You know, I've got you know,
I teach journalism as well one day a week, and

(22:29):
I have to live by my I teach ethics, so
I have to you know, practice what I preach, and
so I just make sure that every I is dotted,
every tea is done. But maybe that is from having
a TV background and a journalistic background. It's it always
feels very current and actually like who was who was signing?
It before. I think, Paul, it was you who said,

(22:51):
you know, you've had members of people's families come and
talk to you, and I've had that recently as well
of quite a few of my cases. One of them
was oh, sweet boy Noah Donna, who who's from Ireland,
who was found in a storm drain. That is an
awful case and they're fighting so hard to try and
get justice for him because the police are framing it

(23:14):
in a way that they don't believe panned out, so
that there's a lot of politics going on behind the scenes.
And I was quite nervous to do it, but so
many people in Ireland had written and said please cover
this case is you know, they just don't get enough
mainstream coverage. And when I did, I got just the
most lovely message from the family just saying, we don't
listen to anything, but we had someone listen to it

(23:36):
for us, and then they said, you really should listen
to it. She's really talking very respectfully, and it was
just what made me sad was that that they'd obviously
had experiences where this teenage boy and his death hadn't
been told sensitively, and that was really sad. So I

(23:57):
think sometimes you know, whateople are going to talk about cases,
and it is the brutal reality of when you lose
someone tragically, you will get put into the press and
your business becomes public knowledge. So I think if there
are people like us who can do it in an
ethical and moral way and put their victims at the center.

(24:20):
And what I always do is that every single episode
I'll put a tribute to the victim, whether it's I've
gone on their Facebook page and I've seen that they
liked sailing and they had a lovely smile and they
loved their kids, or you know, they were really thoughtful
with their monm. I'll always make sure that there's something
to put in there so that lasting feeling is not

(24:44):
the way they would take, but actually the way they lived.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
I do a similar thing. They dedicate every episode of
the Mind to victim as well. Just jumping on what
you said there, sorry, top example of someone getting in
touch and sort of a bit of a new reaction. Really,
it's the case I did a couple of years ago.

(25:08):
It's one bit local to me where a father had
killed himself and his three sons, and he'd called up
the boy's mother and made his eldest son say goodbye
to him as he gassed them all in a four
by four with a lot with a loan roller put
on and quite local to me, there is on the

(25:30):
spot where they died this e bench dedicated to him.
All that I covered this tale, a member of the
White's family got in touch with me asumed it was
a post. I can't believe that you've posted this. I've
just seen his mug shot come up on Instagram and
it must have been like it was that quickly after

(25:50):
the episode was published. They couldn't have had time to
listen to it. So I got back on and I said, look,
you know, not trying to stir up anything. You just
listened to the accounts and then come back to me
to be within about an hour later it is. I'm
so sorry I've listened to that. That's very respectful of
was just a bit of a shot seeing this base

(26:12):
off it like that, So it is. It's unbelievably rare
for some people, Yeah, isn't it. You know, you have
a bit of a responsibility if you cover stuff like this,
If you cover it and put it out, you know,
you might as well be We're not kind of guided
by any guidelines or anything, but it could be morally

(26:35):
really really.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
I tell your point. But I've most of the people
that contact me are very nice and say you've covered
it well. But I've had some. I've had some. I've
had the opposite as well. I've had people saying, you
take this down straight away, it's about my family members.
The only one I did is I mean, I mean,
you're a journalist named me. But back in the day,
I was quite naive, and I had a guy and

(27:00):
most of it was wasn't fact checked. Its just somebody
told me all this stuff and I said to him
again and again, are you sure the rest of the
family okay with this? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
absolutely fine enough, And of course it went out. I
had four or five family members saying this is a
load of nonsense. Take it down now, none of this

(27:20):
is true. So I just took it down straight away,
and I learned a huge lesson that day.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
Well, it's part of the process, isn't it. We're all human.
We're going to make mistakes now.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
And yeah, I've had a family member asked for an
episode to be taken down as well, And that's kind
of why I've started to gravity it's more to the
older ones, because yes, they said it was just so raw.
You know, they didn't it wasn't personal. They just didn't
want him meant their victor or the family member mentioned
at all. So they asked for the episode to be

(27:55):
taken down, everything, social media, everything. They just didn't all
want to see it his face, his name, anything, So
that that was quite you know, you shouldn't. Initially I
was kind of took it personally because I didn't want
them to think that I had done something disrespectful. You know,
it was a lovely like you said, it was a tribute.
It was you know, I thought I've done a really

(28:15):
good job. But it wasn't about me. It was about
respecting the family members. So I did that.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
But yeah, yeah, it's a fine. It's a fine line,
isn't it. But you have to do well. And I
had a case once back early days for me and
I'm sure, well, I'm not sure. I suspect it was
the murderer. It's an unsolved case. And this person contacts me.
He said in the US record. He knew this case
when he was in the UK, and he told me

(28:41):
load load information. He was desperate, and he kept email
me four five times a day, and then since I
covered it, his account just disappeared. I just wonder, I
just wonder if he was the person You're never going
to know? Are you? Anyway you're going to bring to

(29:02):
us today?

Speaker 3 (29:04):
Well, I was just going to actually lead into some
of the questions that we've had here, and the question
from Ben that we've got on the comments is for
all those presenters, how often do you get contacted about episodes?
Is it regularly? It's it's not too regularly for myself,
I must admit, And when I do, they always go

(29:26):
on a I say, I've got a famous list on
my fridge that I had stuff too. It's long gone
from the fridge, but I do have a working list
of stuff. It's about as long as we are, but
it's not as much as it was a couple of
years ago. I mean, what about yourselves.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
I've just got caught up with all my listener requests.
Usually I get them when we go to events and
people put in requests that way. I've had a couple
of emails, but finally I had a list as long
as my armor. I'm never going to get through all
these requests, but I've caught up now, so yeah, have
we got a couple to go now? And so no,
it's kind of tiled off like you. Oh, it's just

(30:05):
it's not as much now. It's manageable.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
But you know me, do you get many you must
get loads of people can't tact you, right.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
It's it's probably I mean today Wednesdays, because that's the
day I release episodes, so I'll usually get people will
usually listen and it will remind them of another case
and then they'll then they'll message. So today I've had
about five and actually two of them were the same,
which I found really interesting, and both were very similar

(30:37):
to the case that I covered in the episode I
released today. So I sort of feel like sometimes it's
a bit of a it's a bit of a ricochet effect,
and it's and it depends. I also think as well,
you know, I will often say, you know, if there
is a case that you'd like me to look into,
do let me know. So I think maybe extending that

(30:58):
invitation sometimes has meant that there is quite a lot.
I mean, yeah, probably five to ten a week. And
it's funny how so many of them are the same
ones and it's usually ones where nobody knows. I never
ever get like, you know, can you do Madeline McCann,
You know, I mean, I've got no kid's kind of

(31:20):
well young kid's policy at the moment. It's just it
just doves my head in too much. But it's really
some of those cases are ones I'd never ever heard of,
and then you look into it and actually the case
is absolutely extraordinary. And one of those was Charlie Downs

(31:41):
from Blackpool and I did a ten part series on
that and I realized it was because the case has
been severely misrepresented in a lot of tabloids and when
you go deeper, and actually I was approached to do
this one and a member of the far right got

(32:02):
in touch, and that's not my bag, so I was like,
you know, and then they said, well, we've got a
whole list of documents that we want to send you,
and I thought, I don't know if I want this.
And then someone else that I did trust said these
documents are legit. And they leaked all these documents, so
I sort of had access to this case. And what

(32:24):
I thought from reading you know, you read the Sun
or you know whatever, and you look at the headlines,
and it was all about you know, Charlie Down's chopped
up into Kebabs horrible. So it was a teenage girl,
you know, and then you get to the real crux
of the story You're like, wow, okay, that is very different.
The evidence is very very different. And now other people

(32:45):
have picked up on it. Channel five have done a
dock on it now and people have been exposed for
doing things they shouldn't have done. And unfortunately she's still missing.
But it's quite nice I think for us, where we
can take cases that are underrepresented are getting no attention
when actually, you know, the families are they want to
be heard, they want to be listened to, and we

(33:07):
can reframe it and we can do it. I'm not
holier than now, my goodness know, and there are people
who are, God I am. There are some amazing podcasters
out there and YouTubers who I'm just in awe of
and I try and listen to them and try and
not copy their style, but I sort of take words
that they use and I think that was really respectful,

(33:27):
that really stood out. So I think it's funny that
the requests. It would be funny if we all actually
looked at the requests that we all got. I wonder
if how many of those would cross reference with each
other and see if there are ones that are more
requested than others, and why it would be a really good.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
That's always my first question. I get quite a few
as well. My first question always is thank you ever
so much, really appreciate it. Tell me what's your interest
in this case?

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yeah? Great?

Speaker 2 (33:54):
You get some quite interesting responses to that.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
What do you normally adam of?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
It?

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Just fair, It just varies. Often people just live in
the local area and they said it's a religion case
and what happened. But often as well, I get people
that have been There's one guy I can think of recently,
and I keep meaning to do a nomad. I'd love
you to a temp passer on it. He was he
was taken to court and he was accused of the murder,

(34:22):
and he was found innocent, and he said that I
want to take you to the place. I want to
show you and to tell you what really happened, and
these things. Like all of us us three here, we
all got real jobs as well, real lives. If I
was a full time podcaster, i'd have been on the
train tomorrow to go and see him and and done
that with my camera person and done the episode. Because

(34:46):
there's so many fantastic stories to tell, and some of
the stories that I cover as well, I cover a
lot of people on the edge of society. Last week
I covered the case there was a guy he's he's
a slight foreman, but he's also dealing drugs and then
he got ambushed by a group of people and his
body has never been found, and so some people don't

(35:07):
have any sympathy for him. But actually idea because it's
not it's not his family who are now left that
these guys had the issue with It was with him
at least. Now, please just tell them where the body is, right,
it's been about fifteen years just to see what happened.
It's gone, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (35:27):
Oh, it's so sad.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
But it's also sad, isn't it? Paul? What do you
want to talk about last this evening?

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Wow? Well I was torn between two But while will
wile of discourse is that three thousand prisoners who've been
released in the past say two months to try and
free up some of the overcrowded the UK jails. Now
some of these people have been picked up in Lamborghinis

(35:56):
that they've been chouting Hail Dharma things they release, Some
of them openly admit that they'll be straight back in
because they're being released to be homeless. You know. At
least one person was arrested on the day was released
for sexual offenses. Other people the day they released have

(36:17):
been pictured on Instagram posing with people brandishing knives. He
as Starma apparently said he hears the public's anger and
is this not an absolutely bollocks strategy? But what do
you do instead? I can see why it has because

(36:38):
prisons are at birthing points, aren't they. They're operating apparently
like about full that they have less than two thousand
places in the UK for prisons, and then they just
had that rash of people in prisons after the Southport

(36:59):
I don't stay riots, protests, disturbances. It was bordering on riots,
wasn't it. Would you class it as riots? What happens
across the country after Southport.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
In some places and people were fought very violent?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, unrest, distance it's got It's got a few people
sentences in the nick, hasn't it. But so so what
I kind of what wants to get thoughts on is well,
what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 6 (37:33):
Are these these seem to be strategic jailings rather than
you know, there was a Tory counselor's wife who's just
gone down for thirty one months for posting horrendous things.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
On Twitter, but it's a Twitter post. Conversely, last year
I fell out in my locality committed to sexual assaults.
Was done for reaching a train. You know, that's sending
horrendous message to X and you got twenty home months now,

(38:08):
how is that right? And what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
That's a great question. So what do you think?

Speaker 4 (38:16):
I think that the I think I see what for
the for example, for the rioters, while they had to
get large sentences, that's making proving a point. But the
fact that they're letting so many people out of prison
that shouldn't be getting let out now to accommodate these ones,
they need to find there needs to be another solution.
I mean, they give back to the community that are destroyed,

(38:39):
do something other than just putting them in prison and
letting people out like shouldn't be let out. There's got
to be another way. And then they also I didn't
read after that we heard that other prisons are almost full.
But then we heard after that, oh no, the prisons
are doing fine. We heard from somebody pie that oh no,
they're absolutely fine. I was like, just be a bit
bit more transparent and all let's work together. There's got

(39:01):
to be Hayden. Things is not working. But the sentences
are just it doesn't seem to be any consistency is there.
He's doing more of that, I think.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
And the probation service is even more overstretched than the
prison service. So Filon Ford did a podcast on probation
and how it's just it's there are failings all over
the place. I mean, there's so many cases that I've
covered where a killer has been released and then probation haven't.

(39:41):
I'm trying to think that Janet Scott was a case
so she was Oh god, I'm just trying to think
of the man. The man's name. He'd killed Pearl Black,
his ex partner, next to where her two children were sleeping,
in a fit of rage. He was put into prison
for fourteen years. He got let out two years early,

(40:03):
and then he went on to stalk three different women
whilst he was out, and then he got into a
relationship with a mum of six, and he stabbed her
after stalking her four months and then a parking she

(40:23):
managed to fling herself out of the car that he'd
bundled her into. She'd come she'd thrown herself out seeing
a park in warden. He was actually driving her from
her house to his house to do goodness knows whatever.
She was bleeding very heavily from her stomach, and when
the parking warden was helping her that he rammed the

(40:46):
car into them both and she died and the parking
warden had life changing in injuries and he was put
back in and he's not only had Janet reported him
to the officer for stalking offenses. Just a few months
before that, Janet's daughter had been so concerned that she

(41:07):
had gone to the probation officer and had a face
to face meeting and said, is my mum at risk?
Because he had done things like he was moving things
about in their kitchen for where he was. You know,
he'd moved the plates from one cup to another because
he liked it. Even though they were a family of
six and that was their normal, you know, seven, that
was their normal. And the probationer said, yeah, I think,

(41:29):
so I think he's all right. I think he's all
right now, And then he did that, and then you
know he was It went to court and he wasn't
suspended or anything like that, but it really highlighted how
the probation service. He said, Look, I was so overworked,
and not that it's an excuse, but just just to
quote him, I was so overtired with all of these
people that I'm trying to keep an eye on, and

(41:52):
I couldn't do it. And so I think that the
prison stuff is really bad. But then we also have
to look at the Probation Service and how we can't
then blame them.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
It's given.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
Actually, I think i've read that in twenty oh god,
what it was about ten years ago there were twenty
two thousand probation employees, not all of them officers, but
support staff as well, and now there's like a third
of that. So it's it's it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
So pol No, no, it's good.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
I have two good friends who are social workers who
cover like sort of around the area where I live,
and they've said to me before now they could spend
the full weeks hours of work just in the office
catching up on paperwork, from We thought that's without going
out for visits and you know, whatever comes in in

(42:48):
the meantime that they are massively overstretched and we're always
going to get people who slipped through the cracks with that,
aren't you. You know you need to tighten that up properly,
wherever it got, wherever it takes.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, John really concerns me is over the next few days,
all the right wing papers were saying this kid start's
labor releasing people, and if it was the toys in power,
it will be the left wing press saying toys. But
the real question answering is one the recall to prisons.

(43:21):
As I understand it is about fifty percent of people
that get released. And it's because it's not the Lamborghini's
pa that you were talking about your average experience somebody
leaving prison. I mean they've got they're thinking, is my
partner still going to see me? Where's my bank account?
Where am I going to sleep tonight? These are the things. Yeah,

(43:41):
this is the reality, I mean what they're going out to.
And it plays in Nami's point about the premation service. Yeah,
we've got to look after these people if we And
so my issue of prisons. Okay, I think that we
send so many people to prison, it's crazy. And in
the riots and I think they were riots, and I
get it. The guy that I think was in Southport

(44:03):
is a fifty eight year old he punched a policeman. Right,
he went to prison for three years too, Right, I'd
have doubled it. And I think about some of the
other people outside and mosques or outside hostels with immigrants
that are really causing issues. Absolutely throway the key. As
far as i'm I don't care the less. But what

(44:23):
concerned me. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. What
concerned me is I thowt there's some idiots. Some twenty
year old girl, she threw a shopping trolley at the
police and then collapsed, her face, claps on her head.
She's got twenty months. I see the other guys who
got thirty six months, and the case this week. I
think for inviting I mean thirty one months for her

(44:46):
to me, I think it's ridiculous. And I think that
as long as we keep throwing all these people in
jail that shouldn't be in jail, I'd give her not
thirty one months. I'll give her ninety one months working
eight to six in the community, picking up litter, doing
anything else. I don't care what she's doing. Stop sending
them to prison. In prison, we need to rehabilitate our people, right.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
Yeah, that's what annoyed Well sorry, no, it was just
just saying that was what annoys me, and that after
the riots, whatever you want to call them, it was
the community that was down picking tidying up and picking
up the mace and starting everything. It should have been there,
they should have been These people should have been made
to come and give back to the community. That's how

(45:30):
I feel the same as you, Adam. We're putting them
in prison just an easy ride for just you know, laugh,
isn't it As far as I can see, it's just
a badge of honor. And then they're back out and
got away with it.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
So that's as people who smashed up saying, let let's
say Southport, everyone who was in prison from Southport who
was involved in riots there, rather than in prison, give
them the community order, actually say for thirty one months, right,
You'll spend thirty one months every single day, right, repairing

(46:05):
not only what you've destroyed, but clean up the area
where you live, get that graffiti off, get that get
that tune up scraped up there. Don't you like it?
But it shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
A proper punishment, I think, rather than just completely name them,
name and shame them as well.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Or let's say, for example, the Tory counselors like who
were just discussing the right, so better a better punishment
for her is right, say let's have a massive fine
forum fraight away. Let's say look at the income of
the house, so wright fifty thousand pound fine there? What well,
your Tory counselor you know you obviously you know that

(46:45):
on the bones of your ask. Not living off the
bins poundland are you? So we'll have that fine there? Right,
you're working, and you have to, like once a week
or something go and explain to people who are genuinely
in need of help why you said what you said.

(47:06):
Proper punishment like that, and then when they'm ninety one
once or that is the wrong long kind of time that,
like people thirty one was, When that time is not,
that person will learn their lesson, won't You will never
want to repeat that humility deployer person, So they they
sell they're doing what be done.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
But prison is to me, prison is where people that
are going to hurt you, me and our families should
be to be rehabilitated. But how can they be rehabilitated
when the staffing is so short because there's so many people.
And then it's like the solution from a lot of
people is build more prisons.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
I'm like, seriously, build a label, faster of dreams. Build
it and they will come. And that you know, it's
it's really tough, isn't it? Sit off?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
What about your pul push your way from view and
it all?

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Then well, well what about what about things like you
get to get into human rights and all that shit now?
But what about things like stopped or public flogging like
these five years ago? Like on the pasturday you get
your gone bags from the magistrates course, who committed heinous
crimes right to you're clearly guilty of them all. Put

(48:26):
me in a stock.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Thro.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
You can't throw anything, book route, regulate it all, sell
tickets for it. All the money goes towards the building.
I don't know, bigger prison or I'll tell you what,
what brilliant thing it would go to? And keeping my
mum's heaping on over the winter. That'd be pretty good.

(48:49):
It just needs I think it needs. It needs to
be more in the community. And I think it's the
community of seeing someone punished every week on Saturday that say,
look at them wrong, and it's like that they feel
better because they see someone being punished go to prison.
People think now. I've talked to my mom about this
yesterday and she said, oh, you've got a person. It's

(49:12):
just like a holday for them. Some people deliberately got there.
Just get off the food. You can get spines they've
got telling you the three squares wants a lot more
than how a lot of people have who haven't committed crimes.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
So yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:29):
Also, there was I can't remember what newspaper it was.
I think it might have been the Telegraph or something.
They were outside some of the prisons when the first
a lot of prisoners were released early in September, and
I just I can clearly remember this video of a
guy and he was like, I'll be back. They're not
they're not even going to give my bed to anyone.
He goes because I've got nowhere elst to go so

(49:50):
now and he and he actually was saying they're so stupid.
I told him not to release me, but now I'm
going to have to go and do something, and you know,
to put myself back here because I need to be
warm and I've got no family left, you know. And
it was, you know, and he was in I looked
at what he was in for, and it was burglary
and offenses like that, non violent crimes, and it was
it was just a real sad state of affairs, actually,

(50:12):
isn't it?

Speaker 2 (50:13):
And it is. We we're crime podcasts, aren't we. Will
you see this sort of crime all the time of
people who are desperate.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
What was shocking with me is that, so are those
three thousands that have been released, right? One percent of them?
Thirty seven people have been wrongly released. Yeah, five of
them still haven't been recalled. So that's a disaster straight away,
isn't it.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
And they've done it again on Tuesday, really another so
it just doesn't work. But then I had to say,
we're a habitual burglar, like I've been burgled on this
and you the rest of you have, but I have
many years ago, and it's a horrible thing to But

(51:03):
I wouldn't kind of somebody burgled me. I wouldn't be
too happy at home seeing my burglar being released early.
But no reason apart from political stassogy, I think that's yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Let me go on my topic really quickly. So all
these podcasts, true crime podcasts are true crime and drinking.
What's what about? You've got a glass? Second?

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Then?

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Okay, disclaim my guys. This is the one night I'm
not working.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, chime.

Speaker 5 (51:44):
And it's ironic because the Scottish ladies on the water.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
That Dawn and what is true crime and gin or
whatever it's called.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
I've seen that. I've seen a few of those. Is
it wine?

Speaker 4 (52:05):
True cry?

Speaker 5 (52:06):
I can't remember. I mean maybe when you're maybe when
you're listening to it to cope, but just oh god,
I'm such a boor, aren't I? Like you know, I
would get a fact wrong, or I'd say I'd say
something wrong, or I already get absolutely slated for my accent.
Everyone says I'm like Dawn. Well not everyone. One person

(52:28):
wrote me a review for Star Review the other day.
I keep bringing this up. I'm clearly scarred.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
You're bragging.

Speaker 5 (52:38):
But they doctor Starr because they said that I sound
like Dawn Suckcliffe from Gavin and Stacey Now Julia Davis,
who plays her, is from the West Country and she's
putting that accent on. So I'm not even getting compared
to real Essex Gale. I'm getting compared to a fictional one.
And I'm being doctor Starr for it. I can't help it.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Highly strong.

Speaker 5 (53:02):
So now.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
The most unbelievable thing that anyone ever got in touch
with me was is I mentioned on a tail many
years ago. I mentioned, we're talking. I was talking about
hit Men and I said, oh, it's normally something that
you're associating films in the UK, like pulp fiction or
something like that, and I said the Mechanic, But I said,
I'm talking about the original Mechanic, the Child Bonson, not

(53:29):
the remake of Jason State Done because it's rockingly ship right.
That was it. I can't say that about the State right,
But so thinking nothing of it. A few days later,
someone got in touch with me and said, love your
show shows brilliant, but I'm going to have to stop
listening to you now because Jason stayed from my favorite actor.

(53:51):
And I can't believe you said that about seriously, And
I was like, how highly strung you my life? I'll
tell you what you'll miss You'll miss me before I
miss you?

Speaker 2 (54:05):
What about you, DoD Have you got any got any
shocking reviews like we all have or not?

Speaker 5 (54:10):
Sorry, we've totally got It's great.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Sorry, I haven't really had no, I haven't had really
be right.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
That's so good. I've had two brilliant ones in my
in my life. One was I would rather listened to
two cats fighting outside, which I loved, which my wife
still keeps crazy to me all the time. So Adams okay,
but he's in decline. I love that very much.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
I very much thought that for a long time since
since me, you and Michael have been doing live shows.
I really we've sent that with you.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
By the way, what about you must have some shockers?

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Do you know what I mean? People will get on
I think like, but again it might come from my
bit of humor, you know, and some of them be naughty.
One that sticks in my mind all the time is
that I say something when I'm promoting Patron on the show.
I say it is easy to sign up to It's
so simple to do that. Diane Abbott could understand it

(55:22):
now now now, Diane Abbott right for me, is famously
sick as fun. I mean, fucking you know, hello McFly
right by the review after that saying great show, black
woman's gaming. Oh my god, I can't believe. And I
was like, well, you're the only person who's brought her

(55:44):
skin color into it. I'm not mentioned that whatsoever. I
related to her because she's fucking dense, That's why. And
so stuff like that. That that sticks in my mind. Yeah,
but I find people can be really thick and if
you mispronounced one word or his name or something like that,
if you're not from the like, they will I think,

(56:08):
why why would you spend the time to leave a
review and not give constructive criticism, just just be nasty.
It's just spike. Really, I don't find some people.

Speaker 5 (56:21):
You can just you can just press stop.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
The thing.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
There was a really one I had the other day.
I did a colab with Stuart Blues from British Murders him.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Have you of him?

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Never never know profile of it? You know a bit more?

Speaker 5 (56:47):
And he we did a collab when he broke his
collarbine and he couldn't be asked to researching, So can
you come.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
On and do what he couldn't be asked to?

Speaker 5 (56:56):
Recently, a lot of killers in his system and he
was a bit a bit tired. So I came on
and did one, and then someone left a review on
his website, which was weird anyway, and said, I used
to love your show, but now you've done a episode
with Peter Andre's best mate. Lost all credibility to say

(57:20):
that I produced one series of Peter andre Show twelve
years ago. He doesn't He's a lovely man, but I'm
not his best friend. But I think what they've done
is they've just, I don't know if maybe they had
a problem with him and they just wanted to have
a dig, so they've googled my name. It's come up
on IMDb or some crap, and they've thought, oh, that's
a good one. It's like, what name it?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
I've got to ask you. So, But you work with lads,
I mean, I mean Keith Lemon and I have seen
you posing with if that's the right word, in the past.
But these guys, I mean, I mean, our audiences are
tiny compared to theirs. I mean, how do these guys
cope with it? Seriously? The feedback, the negative feed that
they get, how do they manage it?

Speaker 5 (58:02):
It's really, do you know what it's really some of
them are are targeted a lot more than others. I
think with with Lee Francis, he's he's he's quite loved
and I think, but also he's got a really refreshing attitude,
like he just doesn't care. He's he's all about his family.
And every weekend instead of going to a celeb party,

(58:22):
he'll he was like, oh, you know, I'll just watch
the Goonies and Etsy's favorite film, but he'll watch all
the or he'll make stuff and he's got a man cave.
It's insane. He's got this amazing man cave where he
makes things, so he kind of switches off. But one
of one, some of that I am very close friends
with because she gave me my first job in TV
for no other reason, is Tricia Goddard, who's you know,

(58:43):
she's an icon, you know the chap Show hosts Tricia,
you know, and she gets so much racism, she gets
so much hate, people calling her desperate. This woman you
know she is, she's she's so kind, She's done so
much for mental health services through her career. Yes, she
had the Tricia Show. And I did work on the

(59:04):
Tricia Show. I worked on it when it was on
Channel five and we were quite strict with what we
could put out, so it was very different to Jeremy
carl and those kind of things. But I've seen some
of the comments she gets, and you know, she lives
with cancer, and I remember that she she sent me
some things recently that had really triggered her. She had

(59:27):
gone on the Daily Fail wherever and looked at the
comments underneath her, and they'd announced that she was doing
covering Good Morning Britain or something through the summer. She
was like, oh God, they're out already, and I got
so upset, just in her friend and someone that she
you know, she's helped me and so many people in TV.
She gave us a chance. I didn't have any TV experience.

(59:47):
I was a fitness instructor at nineteen, and I desperately
wanted to get out and I wanted to work in TV.
And I went and sat in the audience of the
Tricia Show. She and I asked her for a job
and she gave me one. It was that's my whole
foray all my career. I tell my students I worked
really hard, but actually I did when I was in it,
but it was actually pure luck. But she gave me

(01:00:09):
a chance, and she gave lots of other people a chance,
people that you know, didn't really have the money to
go to university like me, and you know, and she
trained us up. And then to see such horrible trolls.
You know, these are people with no faces. You know,
they're not brave enough to put their faces to these comments.
They've got these stupid user aims, and it's just sickening.

(01:00:30):
And actually they're the same people that comment on true
crime stories as well, and you know, will say really
horrible and inappropriate things about the victim or make jokes
on there. So I guess it's all part of the
same breed, but I know that it definitely affects some
people more more than others. For sure. It's horrible, isn't it.
It's a horrible world. We've kind of let ourself it is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
But I think as creatives we have to accept that
we are going to get bad reviews. And when I
see some creators that post the review us and make
comments about it, I think that's just poor, isn't it.
You've got to just accept it, it happens, move on.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
I'd never certainly like myself to share a TikTok or
an Instagram video or anything of me tel posing behind
a bad review that i'd had. I think, oh my god,
that's obviously needled you so badly. Yeah, you need to,
you know, to deal with it, grow up by put

(01:01:31):
your ego second to what you do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
I agree entirely. Just in case people here listening or watching,
I think might starts on their own podcast. We've got
an expert here in Dawn and her husband. Don't tell
us about what you're doing at the moment.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
We just started a small business called it's called Cloran
and it means this will wave. This a wave was taken,
so we had to come up via a you know,
ingenius and thing. It's something different and it's just to
help podcasters. Ndy that wants to find out about podcasting,
wants to get into podcasting, whether you're independent or a
business or anything. Just if you're interested in podcasts and

(01:02:13):
don't know what podcast is, even of course you're listening,
you must do. But just I want to be that
person who I would have wanted when I first started podcasting,
because I didn't have a clue, didn't know what equipment
or anything. And I just want to be that person
for somebody. So that's all it is, just to help
bring people together so you're not you're not alone.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Help you and how can they find you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Don't it will be.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
It's Clorinton dot com and it's c l U A
R A N T O n N dot com. You
can get us in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
And just when you finished nine meet and he lost
thoughts and he lost things. Want to share our audience here.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
No, but just just thank you and and actually just
wanted to also counteract all the it's when when we
do get negg activity, what's actually great is that that
is a very small part I think of what most
creators do get. And actually we have some some really
treasured relationships with some of my listeners. They're so supportive
and I also like to support and I've had a

(01:03:15):
few of her babies recently and they've sent me the
photos and it's so lovely or you know, they've said,
oh yea, I'm on a holiday and listening to you,
and I was like, that's great. You know, it's it's
really love It is a really lovely place. It doesn't
it's all be negative.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
It's absolutely oh any final thoughts, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
I just like to again walk into the comments, and
one of them is, what are our thoughts about Victorious Taylor,
a woman who's gone missing on thirtieth of September. I
believe she's sadly been found deceased in the river tor
I BELYI even I don't want to think. I don't

(01:03:55):
want to cure the flames of another nickel a Bully's
story here. I think it's rote big story. They thought
myself for a couple of weeks that not going to
They're not going to be a happy outcome for it.
But I don't think that any kind of drama they
what you think or.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
No, I don't know enough about the case. I did
see the headline that the body had been found. It's
so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah, yeah, I watched the documentary on Nikola Bully and
recently I watched her partner. I mean, he was so
strong doing that and the family. It's fantastic, and it
just annoys me that we've got some people out there
in the media. I have mentioned any particular names, but
it's all about them and not about the victims. It's

(01:04:47):
back to what we've been saying throughout this podcast, isn't it. Yeah,
you know, I mean, just lose your ego, think about
the people that are suffering their worst ever times.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Just just stop.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Just stop it, okay, just stop.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
People will inject themselves into these things, won't they. Yeah,
you know, they might even fly. They might even fly
to different countries to get involved with things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Who knows for example.

Speaker 7 (01:05:15):
Yeah, maybe you know what I mean, but but we
still gets that they are absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Okay, Well, good stuff. Look, it's been a fantastic hour.
I can't believe an hour and five minutes we went over.
So again a huge thank you Dawn and knowing me,
it's been great having me here, and thank oh you're
more than welcome. Please come and join us again. I mean,
I get so bored of poor as you can imagine,
at least.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
Gets this very quickly. It'll be Mike next time. We'd
love to have you on a going guys, if you
want to come on.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
Definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
It's been very refreshing, really had Thank you everyone for
joining us this evening to come and watch us live.
Really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time. Cheers
now ye see you all.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Good night,