April 7, 2023 • 27 mins
Filmmaker Kelly Reichardt joins the pod over Zoom to discuss her new film Showing Up. We talk about how the art school setting bred on-set creativity, shooting in familiar Portland haunts, artist-landlords, turning Outkast's Andre Benjamin into a certified ceramics guru, and the film's discrete shoutout to Light Industry co-founder Ed Halter. And much more!
For more on Showing Up, see our earlier pod with cinematographer Christopher Blauvelt.
Links:
Showing Up trailer and showtimes
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon Dieringer (00:12):
You are listening to the Screen Slate Podcast. I'm
your host Jon Dieringer and onthis episode I am thrilled to
speak to one of my favoritefilmmakers Kelly Reichardt about
what I think is one of herfinest films showing up which
opens this month in theatersnationwide, including today in
New York at Angelica and AMCLincoln Square. Michelle
Williams plays that Lizzie asculptor preparing for a show at
(00:34):
a Portland Art Gallery. Whiledealing with a lot of very
relatable personal and creativeissues related to her artists
landlord Joe played by Hong Chowand the various characters and
family members in and around theart school where she works. We
talked about Reichart ownexperiences teaching at Bard
shooting in her own backyardturning outcasts Andre Benjamin
into a certified ceramics guru.
And in a little bit of fanservice for local micro cinema
(00:57):
maniacs, we make sure to shoutout light industry, of which
Reichart is a recent boardmember. By the way, if you want
to hear more about showing up Irecorded a great pot. It's one
of my favorites that I've donewith cinematographer Christopher
Blau belt. So take a look in ourarchives for that one. Before we
begin, I want to give a hugeshout out to our own community
of listeners who support us onPatreon and make all of Screen
(01:19):
Slate possible. We don't haveads, we don't have big sponsors.
We don't have grants and ourPatreon members not only support
the pod, but our New York CityFilm listings that film
criticisms that we publish everysingle day the daily newsletter
and more visitpatreon.com/screen slate to
become a member. And with thatsaid, Here's Kelly Reichardt.
Maybe I can start with aquestion that I feel like will
(01:42):
be of unique interest to ScreenSlate listeners, which is I
thought I caught a moment inshowing up where a package
arrived for someone named Nedhalter. Did I hear that
correctly? It was Jed halter. Iwasn't allowed to use Ed's name
because he's, you know, too wellknown. Right? Yeah. So you've
heard you heard right, but yeah,okay. It was actually Jed
(02:04):
haltered. Yeah, okay. Okay. Ithought maybe it was Ned. Well,
I mean, it was it was my shoutout to Ed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Because I think I had seen youintroduced some films recently
at light industry. And you hadmentioned you share an office
together at Bard. But yeah, Imean, this film seems like it
reflects in many ways yourteaching at Bard, and also the
(02:26):
community. They're not just JedHolter. But you know, who's in
the film? And I wondered if youcould talk about that. Sure. I'm
glad we talked about lightindustry, because Yeah, cuz I'm
on the board. Yeah. Yeah. Yourrecent board admission. I mean,
we could just talk about hype uplight industry, right. I know.
Kelly Reichardt (02:48):
I've done my board work.
Jon Dieringer (02:49):
Yeah. Relax for the rest of the year.
Kelly Reichardt (02:53):
That's it.
Let's see,You know, we wanted to shoot at
the school, the Oregon Collegeof Arts and Crafts, which is
really an important institutionin the Pacific Northwest has
been it's 100 year old school,not not not actual location.
It's been there since I think,late 70s, early 80s. But it just
shuttered its doors in 2018. Andlike a lot of art schools in
(03:15):
America, huge loss for thecommunity. And so I really
wanted to shoot there before itbecomes the next thing that it's
going to be. And because ofCOVID, the school was empty, and
we were allowed to shoot there.
And that was awesome. So we gotto make up a whole art school.
(03:35):
And so of course, I leaned a biton my couple of decades at Bard
College, and I've always beeninterested in Black Mountain
College, and have made a tripdown there. And in the last time
I was at the Wexner. Center inColumbus, they had the Black
Mountain College show, which wasamazing. I don't know if you got
a chance to see it with all thebut anyhow, stuff has been
(03:57):
around now. It's getting reallyout. She has a beautiful book.
And so that whole the history ofthat school is pretty
interesting. And so there's someodes did Black Mountain College
in there, too.
Jon Dieringer (04:09):
Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's reflecting a
whole legacy of of manydifferent liberal arts colleges.
And you know, not just Bard.
Kelly Reichardt (04:18):
Yeah, I mean, actually, you know, when we were
shooting there, myself and TonySparrow, the production
designer, you know, we createdlike, got to figure out as fun
like what classes they would beand where they would be. And
then Tony in the art team, juststarted bringing in young
artists from Portland to makethe art to fill the rooms and we
(04:38):
got some looms in the room andthe head PA on our crew knew how
to do the looms and was teachingeveryone how to weave and stuff
was being made in every room.
And then the young actors thatwere playing the students came
in, they're just kicking aroundall day because they got to just
wait and wait and wait. So theyjust start getting into the clay
and learning how to do that.
(04:59):
Die and learn how to sew at thetime I get there. They're
teaching me how to do it. So itwas it became this active place
of where stuff was being made inevery room. And it was great,
you know?
Jon Dieringer (05:12):
Yeah. I mean, there's such a life to the
school and the film. You know, Ithink that that spirit of
creative collectivity reallycomes across. I had also heard
that Andre Benjamin had beenwalking around playing flute a
lot on set.
Kelly Reichardt (05:28):
Yes. He just played his flute whenever he's
not working. And it's a bigwooden flute. I forget, he told
me what it was called. But Iforget it. So yeah, that was
kind of a soundscape for a lotof shooting, and is so lovely.
The last day at the school, hejust stood out in a field the
(05:48):
field there and let us recordhim. And he just played for 45
minutes. And so I had this cacheof beautiful flute music when I
went into the editing room,which is really awesome to be
able to make use of.
Jon Dieringer (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's a really wonderful musical
motif throughout the film. Andso that was all just recorded
like a field recording. And
Kelly Reichardt (06:13):
yeah, and Ethan Rose is the composer on digital
music in the film, which Ithought was like a kind of
needed contrast to all thereally tactile, hippie art that
was being made.
Jon Dieringer (06:29):
Yeah, I think I'd read it originally, you and John
Raymond, who you've beencollaborating with, for a very
long time, were thinking aboutdoing a story about the Canadian
artist, Emily Carr, that she wasan artist who was also a
landlord and had sort of becomeconsumed by the the work of
being a landlord. Right. Ratherthan than focusing on her art.
(06:51):
Do you want to talk about that,and how the story took? Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (06:55):
we went to Vancouver and both big fans of
her painting. And she's, youknow, been inspirational in some
of the films, just, you know,her paintings, like, you know,
when I'm shooting in the forestand stuff. And so, while we were
really not Googlers, because wewent to Vancouver, and we
thought this little knownpainter in this dormant time
(07:19):
that she's working in, you know,then we got to Vancouver, and we
learned that she's, she's hugethere. I mean, there's, we
should have known we werestaying at the Emily Carr Hotel.
Like something was up because
Jon Dieringer (07:32):
that is that like property that she owned. That
was
Kelly Reichardt (07:37):
that was like the house she grew up in. I
mean, there's everything in mycar ever did is a thing.
Jon Dieringer (07:44):
Do they have like tchotchkes that Emily Carr?
keychains and stuff like that.
And
Kelly Reichardt (07:49):
her? Oh, yeah, for sure. But you could go to
Oh, my gosh, I mean, like, wewent to research, we went to her
house, her young her first houseand to research it in its, you
know, it's like a Emily carmuseum. And the tour guide was
(08:09):
like, Well, you know, the BBC isalready doing something. So
don't either, you know, I mean,it was just like, even get your
elbows in the, it was the it wasa crowded field. And so we did
get to see some of the schoolshe painted in with those other
artists in in a gallery. But youknow, there's statues over and
things like that. And I thinkshe's taught in every elementary
(08:33):
school. I don't think I was evertaught about a painter in
elementary school.
Jon Dieringer (08:37):
Yeah, neither was I mean, maybe like, children's
books with paintings in them.
But yeah. Great Cat.
Kelly Reichardt (08:45):
The Canadians have it going on with that. So
anyway, we came back home. Andin while we were there, we were
both sort of having familycrisis, each of us and we're
both on our phones a lot, notreally able to focus anyway,
because we both had things goingon at home. I guess that's the
kind of stuff that ended up thelandlord and the distractions of
(09:08):
family and, you know, in theconnection with the people in
your life, and all that sort ofstuff started sort of worked its
way into the script.
Jon Dieringer (09:18):
At what point did it go from being a story about
an artist landlord to an artistwith an artist, landlord,
Kelly Reichardt (09:26):
I, you know, it was a long road with some, like,
kind of failed drafts, and aneye. You know, the getting back
and getting closer to our ownworld kind of made me really
nervous. And I was like, oh,boy, making a film about
contemporary artists are just soscary to me. And even though I
knew like the scale, we weretalking about it so while John
(09:51):
was tooling away on the script,I wouldn't, you know, wouldn't
film Michelle Sue gray in herstudio and make two shorts for
the Pompidou Well, I shotMichelle Sue gray in the Bronx,
and her work is in the film. Andshe has a studio in the Bronx.
And then I went out to LongBeach and filmed Jessica Jackson
Hutchins working at Cal State inthese huge kilns they had there.
(10:17):
And just to figure out just towatch people work and see how
they work. I mean, I hang out atfriend's studios a good bit, but
this was like, how would I evenfilm people working? I just
wanted to try it. Yeah. Andaround this time, like John was
sort of cultivating the wholefamily relation in that relation
into the school, which is reallygreat and kind of central and
(10:41):
core to the whole thing. I knewwe were going to shoot on that
street, because that we shot onwhere the apartments, our
friends, built those apartments,and we've had lots of friends
living that we've known over theyears that have lived in those
apartments. I've stayed in them.
And so you know, it's a streetfull of friends and people, you
know, basically all artiststrying to have a place to live,
(11:03):
go to work, do the thing. So weended up at some point when I
was working on the script, Iknew I was going to use that
space and the up and down ofthe, the, you know, the carport
kind of in the balcony sort ofsetup.
Jon Dieringer (11:18):
Yes. Yeah.
They're really beautiful homes.
Yeah. And also that I think thatspatial dynamic works really
well with the characters Great.
Kelly Reichardt (11:25):
Yeah. I mean, they were tiny, tiny spaces to
shoot in. But they Yeah, it wasa good setup for them. So a lot
of the spaces I already spendtime in Hong Charles character
Joe's studio is my friend storm,Thorpe's studio and in his
artwork is in Joe's apartment.
And Michael Brophy is our work.
(11:49):
The painter Michael Brophy ishas the giant painting that's at
the school when the on thebalcony where the guys vacuuming
and Michael Brophy, you know,did the storyboards for me for
night news and Meeks and it'sdone a lot of scouting with me
and Neil cop, my producer, andhe's used some of my location
pictures in his paintings. Soit's all a big like jumble of
(12:11):
stuff. Chris Johansens paintingsare in there and Johanna Jackson
and just we got to use a lot ofcool art that I you know, I wish
I could have hanging on my wallsand so at least can happen in my
movie. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer (12:26):
Is this something that you had maybe had in the
back of your mind, like a longrunning desire to incorporate
the work of all these friendsinto a film? Or is it just
something that just kind ofworked its way
Kelly Reichardt (12:39):
out and just worked its way Yeah, it wasn't.
No, I mean, the process was, youknow, we were at it for a few
years trying to make you know,figure it all out but it wasn't
like something I had beenplanning to do for my like I
said, we were gonna go to I'malways trying to get away from
my world my own world whenmaking a film. This time I
(13:02):
really shot in my own backyard.
Jon Dieringer (13:06):
I mean, do you ever feel is it almost like a
godfather type thing where it'slike it's pulling you back in
you know, you're trying to likeget away from that milieu, but
Kelly Reichardt (13:14):
right Well, this time it's like I you know,
we shot it like bookstores welove and things like that. And
every time you go in there andyou're just want to be you know,
la la la in my own little brainyear, whatever. We've we crashed
all the places.
Jon Dieringer (13:30):
So it's sort of like you get the Kelly Reichardt
tour if you watch it. Yeah,right. Yeah. Kelly. Well,
Kelly Reichardt (13:38):
yeah, but it's a lot. It would be a lot of
people's. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
John Raymond to and storm Thorpeall these people I mentioned
like, it's, yeah,
Jon Dieringer (13:48):
I mean, that's something that I think is really
wonderful about the film eveneven visually is it looks very
lived in like the studios. Youknow, I didn't want to presume
watching it that you had filmedin actual artists studios, but
apparently you're saying that is
Kelly Reichardt (14:02):
place but they all got dressed to be other
people's studios. I mean, webrought a lot of Cynthia latte
stuff over to even though wherewe were shooting is the
apartment of another studio. Weemptied it and brought in all
her stuff because everything wasdressed in revamped for and
(14:23):
everything hand selected for thecharacters. But the so yeah, we
moved everything out of thoseapartments from the artists that
live there move stuff in. Yes.
Is to be Yeah,
Jon Dieringer (14:36):
I mean, it all looks very, very used and like a
very real and very loving Yeah,like even just a little, I don't
know, jars of
Kelly Reichardt (14:46):
that. A lot of that. Our decorator AMI, who's
in Tony Despero. That's a goodteam for making things lived in.
Jon Dieringer (14:57):
Yeah. And you've worked together in a number or
films? Is that correct? And likea lot of the crew? I mean, could
you talk about this group ofpeople that has been assembled
over the years and you know,Christopher Blauvelt, who I had
spoken to before?
Kelly Reichardt (15:13):
Yes. Blog, it's pretty essential in my
filmmaking now. I mean, I mean,finding the right DPS really
took a long time and was hard.
And we've made five featurestogether. And one of those
shorts, Chris shot, and yeah,and so and you're, you're kind
(15:33):
of just picking up where youleft off. And you have a common
language by now. And we've like,you know, he's shot so many
tests we have, you know, it'skind of all your tests it for
what you can remember just onvarious lenses or whatever. I
mean, it's just, it's great. I,yeah, I? Yes. He's great. He's
(15:55):
awful. Don't use them.
Jon Dieringer (16:00):
Yeah, it would be a shame if he would, you know,
have other work come up.
Kelly Reichardt (16:06):
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you get in theserelationships that have been
ongoing. It's Janet Weiss, greatdrummer and of quasi and also
fabulous location, Scout. Yeah,she did first cow. And, and
then, of course, Neil, cop andinitial Johnny, the producers
I've been working with. Andsince old joy.
Jon Dieringer (16:27):
And then of course, Michelle seems to really
anchor a number of the film's aswell. So
Kelly Reichardt (16:33):
look, row comes back. A lot of people come back.
Yeah, yeah. Michelle, and yes,she does a lot of stuff in
between. And I've done some dothings in between, and then you
meet again, and it's great,because you both have like,
picked up some, some more tricksof the trade on the
Jon Dieringer (16:54):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that three of
the people in this film werenominated for Oscars, I think
Michelle's work here, it's alot. I don't know, maybe it
feels like a little moreinterior? If that's fair to say,
Yeah. Could you talk aboutshaping that performance and
collaborating with Michelle?
Kelly Reichardt (17:12):
I mean, gosh, it's such a, you know, what the
film is about, it's a process,everything's a process. And, you
know, first, the first sort of,beginnings of it is, you know,
the gossip stage with, as welike to call it with John,
during out, you know, the saladof, you know, taking things from
a bunch of different places, andpeople and all and forming these
(17:36):
two characters. And
Jon Dieringer (17:38):
so also, when can you elaborate on the calling of
the gossip stage, like, you'resort of sharing stories or
anecdotes,
Kelly Reichardt (17:46):
just taking pieces of how people were
anxiety approached other peopleapproach the world, I mean, you
know, even ourselves, and sortof, it's like a collage that
comes together, right. And somepeople aren't even, you know,
might not even be people weknow, personally, like, you read
(18:07):
something of someone, or from abook or any, you know, sky's the
limit. It's not all just like,out of our little neighborhood,
then there's that phase. Andthen I like a lot of images, and
I work with a lot of images of,I had, like, all these different
women working in clay. And I'mlike, how does this all gonna?
Now I gotta get into the realityof casting it. One really
(18:32):
important person was Lee bhana.
Cue the sculptor. And when I hadimages of her, I really thought,
oh, you know, I see, Michelle,this is great. Like, it helps me
to have a simple minded person,it helps me to have an image of
a person in actual, you know, itwas nice to have an image of a
(18:54):
sculptor, that I could see someresemblance in, and it was a, it
was talking to Michelle, andthen you know, Michelle, I'm
kind of talking to her about whothe character is. But then she
and Hong are each spending timewith the artists whose work
they're using, so they can feelcomfortable with the art. And,
(19:14):
you know, I say, well, thisisn't, you know, the person that
you're, but I'm sure it'simpossible for them to not
absorb things from those people,because they're learning that's
really personal art, and they'relearning stuff from those women
spending time at their studiosand that kind of thing. And
whatever they're bringing to itin their own stuff, and then you
(19:36):
know, boys posture and then it'salways a big deal when everyone
gets in their costumes and, youknow, getting the clothes right
and the shoes right and all ofthat kind of stuff. Gosh, I wish
I could remember it. I won't beable to remember what it says so
I can't quote from it. But I Ijust read, you know, a Dave
Hickey. I think it's an olderDave Hickey piece about Robert
(19:57):
Mitchum. I won't try to say whatit's all about. It's kind of
like how everything in the scenelike the props, and everything's
real except for the actor, and,you know, being becoming as real
as the pot of coffee or whateverit is. interpretation of it, but
Jon Dieringer (20:17):
no, I think I understand what you're saying.
Yeah. And I mean, I thinkMichelle fits really well into
this milieu that you've created,you know, which is a place that
also exists. It's, as you'resaying, it's kind of like your
backyard, but she feels like shebelongs there. When you watch
the movie, you know, she kind ofdisappears or melds into it, you
(20:39):
know, which is the case with allthe actors, as well, you know,
Hong Chow and Jed Hirsch. Yeah.
Andre Benjamin. You know, Ithink it's really remarkable
when you take someone like, youknow, Andre Benjamin, who's such
a, you know, such a superstar,and he works so well is just the
killing guy.
Kelly Reichardt (20:59):
Well, he went out Long Beach, where I'd made
that short to learn the kills.
And I thought he'd go out therefor a day. And then he's just
like, texting me at the end ofthe day, like, oh, man, Clay. I
knew it in this and they justkept going back, you know? So.
Jon Dieringer (21:20):
Yeah, you see, like a ceramics joke. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt (21:23):
Super time. We got him. He was pretty
comfortable. Handling stuff andwith the kilns and he, yeah, he,
we wanted this person to be.
Yeah, like the kiln guru. And,and he's got that vibe, for
sure.
Jon Dieringer (21:43):
Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (21:44):
he doesn't get so yeah, great.
Jon Dieringer (21:48):
Well, I love I love the way he plays off that
scene where you know, where thepieces kind of burned. I think
there's an element to the filmwhere everyone's just like a
little too chill, maybe. Whichfeels very real to me. You know,
it's not necessarily thatLizzie's. Yeah, exactly. And,
you know, Lizzie's maybe alittle more high strung, but
(22:11):
it's also that everyone elsearound her feels like a little
too easygoing about everything.
Kelly Reichardt (22:19):
And so people, you know, easygoing is the, you
know, the thing. They were onthe outside. And, yeah, and that
works in a certain way. Because,you know, everyone wants to be
the easygoing person. Right, youknow, an early thing. John's
description, an earlydescription John had of Lizzie
(22:42):
when we're starting out with atrapped badger. And I really
thought that was like a greatway of looking at her. And I
understood like exactly whatthat meant. Yeah, but yeah, it's
true. So Andres, like the theAndres character, Eric is the
you know, yeah, he's theultimate. He's truly at ease.
Jon Dieringer (23:05):
Yeah, he seems very unflappable. Can you talk
about working with Jed Hirsch?
Because, you know, he's such aiconic actor. And he's so funny
in this film. And yet anotherexample of a character who's
very loose,
Kelly Reichardt (23:21):
supposedly, yeah, yeah, maybe a little in
denial and distracting himselfby he's got a little that
character has a little ofdifferent people in it a little
my dad in there, for sure.
Especially with just havingwhoever come over and stay on
your couch. And Jed was. He's atotal character in real life.
(23:42):
And he seems like he isn't, itseems like you can't get his
attention and he's not going tofocus. And he doesn't focus
until the scene starts. And thenhe, I really, the scene of him
and Michelle in his studio. I'venever shot a scene where I've
felt emotional, like the scenewas being shot. And I felt
(24:03):
emotional, why that scene wasbeing shot. And he he just he
gets with it and he really hedoes it. This every take is
different. And he can even putthe humor in a different place.
And and his total ability to belike the I don't know what's
(24:26):
going on guy, Dad, I mean, Iknew he was doing I thought it
was great when we were shootingbut like being in the editing
room with his takes and justreally going through stuff. I
was like Wow, man. He really diddifferent things constantly. And
all good. Like they were allones you'd takes you could use
(24:50):
and it would make the scenedifferent. It was It was, yeah,
it was great. He's a greatactor.
Jon Dieringer (25:04):
Yeah, the gallery Lizzie's opening, watching him
sort of engage the othercharacters. I almost got the
sense that maybe on the set hehad he had been similarly just
kind of like, bullshitting witheveryone. Can now Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (25:22):
yeah. Over here. We're rolling. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer (25:27):
Just kind of like holding up the same thing.
Kelly Reichardt (25:29):
He's just doing the thing. Yeah, he and him and
Amanda just as two peopletogether. That's pretty good.
You know, Amanda Plummer andMatt Malloy. Their hearts aren't
really that huge, but they're sogreat. And they're bringing you
know so much with them. And Ithat's a really wonderful thing.
Yeah,
Jon Dieringer (25:48):
I know.
Obviously, you're, likecompletely inundated with a
release of this film. Now. Isthe process in gear for the
next. Like, how does?
Kelly Reichardt (25:58):
Oh, my God, I can't even think about
Jon Dieringer (26:00):
anything. Okay, okay. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt (26:03):
Just go and see the movie. And that's best.
Jon Dieringer (26:07):
Yeah. Go see the film. Check out light industry.
Yeah, right. Yeah, subscribe toScreen Slate. Yeah, thanks.
Whoo. Awesome. Thanks.
Kelly Reichardt (26:19):
All right.
Yeah. I love what you guys dothere. So thank you. It's a good
thing. Yeah. I'm into it.
Jon Dieringer (26:32):
This has been the Screen Slate Podcast. Thanks for
listening. Thanks to everyone at824 who helped us set this up.
And of course, a huge shout outto everyone who supports us on
Patreon. Visitpatreon.com/screen slate to
become a member JOIN OUR DISCORDand get other perks. And be sure
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get your pods. And a reminder tothat we have one with showing up
(26:54):
cinematographer Christopher Blaubelt in the archives. So take a
peek and check that one out. Wehave another pod next week with
Christopher Bartley, director ofthe fantastic new film sick of
myself, and I'll be moderating aq&a with him Wednesday evening
at IFC Center. So keep an eyeout for that one. All right.
We'll see you soon and thanksagain.
You are listening to the Screen Slate Podcast. I'm
your host Jon Dieringer and onthis episode I am thrilled to
speak to one of my favoritefilmmakers Kelly Reichardt about
what I think is one of herfinest films showing up which
opens this month in theatersnationwide, including today in
New York at Angelica and AMCLincoln Square. Michelle
Williams plays that Lizzie asculptor preparing for a show at
(00:34):
a Portland Art Gallery. Whiledealing with a lot of very
relatable personal and creativeissues related to her artists
landlord Joe played by Hong Chowand the various characters and
family members in and around theart school where she works. We
talked about Reichart ownexperiences teaching at Bard
shooting in her own backyardturning outcasts Andre Benjamin
into a certified ceramics guru.
And in a little bit of fanservice for local micro cinema
(00:57):
maniacs, we make sure to shoutout light industry, of which
Reichart is a recent boardmember. By the way, if you want
to hear more about showing up Irecorded a great pot. It's one
of my favorites that I've donewith cinematographer Christopher
Blau belt. So take a look in ourarchives for that one. Before we
begin, I want to give a hugeshout out to our own community
of listeners who support us onPatreon and make all of Screen
(01:19):
Slate possible. We don't haveads, we don't have big sponsors.
We don't have grants and ourPatreon members not only support
the pod, but our New York CityFilm listings that film
criticisms that we publish everysingle day the daily newsletter
and more visitpatreon.com/screen slate to
become a member. And with thatsaid, Here's Kelly Reichardt.
Maybe I can start with aquestion that I feel like will
(01:42):
be of unique interest to ScreenSlate listeners, which is I
thought I caught a moment inshowing up where a package
arrived for someone named Nedhalter. Did I hear that
correctly? It was Jed halter. Iwasn't allowed to use Ed's name
because he's, you know, too wellknown. Right? Yeah. So you've
heard you heard right, but yeah,okay. It was actually Jed
(02:04):
haltered. Yeah, okay. Okay. Ithought maybe it was Ned. Well,
I mean, it was it was my shoutout to Ed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Because I think I had seen youintroduced some films recently
at light industry. And you hadmentioned you share an office
together at Bard. But yeah, Imean, this film seems like it
reflects in many ways yourteaching at Bard, and also the
(02:26):
community. They're not just JedHolter. But you know, who's in
the film? And I wondered if youcould talk about that. Sure. I'm
glad we talked about lightindustry, because Yeah, cuz I'm
on the board. Yeah. Yeah. Yourrecent board admission. I mean,
we could just talk about hype uplight industry, right. I know.
Kelly Reichardt (02:48):
I've done my board work.
Jon Dieringer (02:49):
Yeah. Relax for the rest of the year.
Kelly Reichardt (02:53):
That's it.
Let's see,You know, we wanted to shoot at
the school, the Oregon Collegeof Arts and Crafts, which is
really an important institutionin the Pacific Northwest has
been it's 100 year old school,not not not actual location.
It's been there since I think,late 70s, early 80s. But it just
shuttered its doors in 2018. Andlike a lot of art schools in
(03:15):
America, huge loss for thecommunity. And so I really
wanted to shoot there before itbecomes the next thing that it's
going to be. And because ofCOVID, the school was empty, and
we were allowed to shoot there.
And that was awesome. So we gotto make up a whole art school.
(03:35):
And so of course, I leaned a biton my couple of decades at Bard
College, and I've always beeninterested in Black Mountain
College, and have made a tripdown there. And in the last time
I was at the Wexner. Center inColumbus, they had the Black
Mountain College show, which wasamazing. I don't know if you got
a chance to see it with all thebut anyhow, stuff has been
(03:57):
around now. It's getting reallyout. She has a beautiful book.
And so that whole the history ofthat school is pretty
interesting. And so there's someodes did Black Mountain College
in there, too.
Jon Dieringer (04:09):
Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's reflecting a
whole legacy of of manydifferent liberal arts colleges.
And you know, not just Bard.
Kelly Reichardt (04:18):
Yeah, I mean, actually, you know, when we were
shooting there, myself and TonySparrow, the production
designer, you know, we createdlike, got to figure out as fun
like what classes they would beand where they would be. And
then Tony in the art team, juststarted bringing in young
artists from Portland to makethe art to fill the rooms and we
(04:38):
got some looms in the room andthe head PA on our crew knew how
to do the looms and was teachingeveryone how to weave and stuff
was being made in every room.
And then the young actors thatwere playing the students came
in, they're just kicking aroundall day because they got to just
wait and wait and wait. So theyjust start getting into the clay
and learning how to do that.
(04:59):
Die and learn how to sew at thetime I get there. They're
teaching me how to do it. So itwas it became this active place
of where stuff was being made inevery room. And it was great,
you know?
Jon Dieringer (05:12):
Yeah. I mean, there's such a life to the
school and the film. You know, Ithink that that spirit of
creative collectivity reallycomes across. I had also heard
that Andre Benjamin had beenwalking around playing flute a
lot on set.
Kelly Reichardt (05:28):
Yes. He just played his flute whenever he's
not working. And it's a bigwooden flute. I forget, he told
me what it was called. But Iforget it. So yeah, that was
kind of a soundscape for a lotof shooting, and is so lovely.
The last day at the school, hejust stood out in a field the
(05:48):
field there and let us recordhim. And he just played for 45
minutes. And so I had this cacheof beautiful flute music when I
went into the editing room,which is really awesome to be
able to make use of.
Jon Dieringer (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's a really wonderful musical
motif throughout the film. Andso that was all just recorded
like a field recording. And
Kelly Reichardt (06:13):
yeah, and Ethan Rose is the composer on digital
music in the film, which Ithought was like a kind of
needed contrast to all thereally tactile, hippie art that
was being made.
Jon Dieringer (06:29):
Yeah, I think I'd read it originally, you and John
Raymond, who you've beencollaborating with, for a very
long time, were thinking aboutdoing a story about the Canadian
artist, Emily Carr, that she wasan artist who was also a
landlord and had sort of becomeconsumed by the the work of
being a landlord. Right. Ratherthan than focusing on her art.
(06:51):
Do you want to talk about that,and how the story took? Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (06:55):
we went to Vancouver and both big fans of
her painting. And she's, youknow, been inspirational in some
of the films, just, you know,her paintings, like, you know,
when I'm shooting in the forestand stuff. And so, while we were
really not Googlers, because wewent to Vancouver, and we
thought this little knownpainter in this dormant time
(07:19):
that she's working in, you know,then we got to Vancouver, and we
learned that she's, she's hugethere. I mean, there's, we
should have known we werestaying at the Emily Carr Hotel.
Like something was up because
Jon Dieringer (07:32):
that is that like property that she owned. That
was
Kelly Reichardt (07:37):
that was like the house she grew up in. I
mean, there's everything in mycar ever did is a thing.
Jon Dieringer (07:44):
Do they have like tchotchkes that Emily Carr?
keychains and stuff like that.
And
Kelly Reichardt (07:49):
her? Oh, yeah, for sure. But you could go to
Oh, my gosh, I mean, like, wewent to research, we went to her
house, her young her first houseand to research it in its, you
know, it's like a Emily carmuseum. And the tour guide was
(08:09):
like, Well, you know, the BBC isalready doing something. So
don't either, you know, I mean,it was just like, even get your
elbows in the, it was the it wasa crowded field. And so we did
get to see some of the schoolshe painted in with those other
artists in in a gallery. But youknow, there's statues over and
things like that. And I thinkshe's taught in every elementary
(08:33):
school. I don't think I was evertaught about a painter in
elementary school.
Jon Dieringer (08:37):
Yeah, neither was I mean, maybe like, children's
books with paintings in them.
But yeah. Great Cat.
Kelly Reichardt (08:45):
The Canadians have it going on with that. So
anyway, we came back home. Andin while we were there, we were
both sort of having familycrisis, each of us and we're
both on our phones a lot, notreally able to focus anyway,
because we both had things goingon at home. I guess that's the
kind of stuff that ended up thelandlord and the distractions of
(09:08):
family and, you know, in theconnection with the people in
your life, and all that sort ofstuff started sort of worked its
way into the script.
Jon Dieringer (09:18):
At what point did it go from being a story about
an artist landlord to an artistwith an artist, landlord,
Kelly Reichardt (09:26):
I, you know, it was a long road with some, like,
kind of failed drafts, and aneye. You know, the getting back
and getting closer to our ownworld kind of made me really
nervous. And I was like, oh,boy, making a film about
contemporary artists are just soscary to me. And even though I
knew like the scale, we weretalking about it so while John
(09:51):
was tooling away on the script,I wouldn't, you know, wouldn't
film Michelle Sue gray in herstudio and make two shorts for
the Pompidou Well, I shotMichelle Sue gray in the Bronx,
and her work is in the film. Andshe has a studio in the Bronx.
And then I went out to LongBeach and filmed Jessica Jackson
Hutchins working at Cal State inthese huge kilns they had there.
(10:17):
And just to figure out just towatch people work and see how
they work. I mean, I hang out atfriend's studios a good bit, but
this was like, how would I evenfilm people working? I just
wanted to try it. Yeah. Andaround this time, like John was
sort of cultivating the wholefamily relation in that relation
into the school, which is reallygreat and kind of central and
(10:41):
core to the whole thing. I knewwe were going to shoot on that
street, because that we shot onwhere the apartments, our
friends, built those apartments,and we've had lots of friends
living that we've known over theyears that have lived in those
apartments. I've stayed in them.
And so you know, it's a streetfull of friends and people, you
know, basically all artiststrying to have a place to live,
(11:03):
go to work, do the thing. So weended up at some point when I
was working on the script, Iknew I was going to use that
space and the up and down ofthe, the, you know, the carport
kind of in the balcony sort ofsetup.
Jon Dieringer (11:18):
Yes. Yeah.
They're really beautiful homes.
Yeah. And also that I think thatspatial dynamic works really
well with the characters Great.
Kelly Reichardt (11:25):
Yeah. I mean, they were tiny, tiny spaces to
shoot in. But they Yeah, it wasa good setup for them. So a lot
of the spaces I already spendtime in Hong Charles character
Joe's studio is my friend storm,Thorpe's studio and in his
artwork is in Joe's apartment.
And Michael Brophy is our work.
(11:49):
The painter Michael Brophy ishas the giant painting that's at
the school when the on thebalcony where the guys vacuuming
and Michael Brophy, you know,did the storyboards for me for
night news and Meeks and it'sdone a lot of scouting with me
and Neil cop, my producer, andhe's used some of my location
pictures in his paintings. Soit's all a big like jumble of
(12:11):
stuff. Chris Johansens paintingsare in there and Johanna Jackson
and just we got to use a lot ofcool art that I you know, I wish
I could have hanging on my wallsand so at least can happen in my
movie. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer (12:26):
Is this something that you had maybe had in the
back of your mind, like a longrunning desire to incorporate
the work of all these friendsinto a film? Or is it just
something that just kind ofworked its way
Kelly Reichardt (12:39):
out and just worked its way Yeah, it wasn't.
No, I mean, the process was, youknow, we were at it for a few
years trying to make you know,figure it all out but it wasn't
like something I had beenplanning to do for my like I
said, we were gonna go to I'malways trying to get away from
my world my own world whenmaking a film. This time I
(13:02):
really shot in my own backyard.
Jon Dieringer (13:06):
I mean, do you ever feel is it almost like a
godfather type thing where it'slike it's pulling you back in
you know, you're trying to likeget away from that milieu, but
Kelly Reichardt (13:14):
right Well, this time it's like I you know,
we shot it like bookstores welove and things like that. And
every time you go in there andyou're just want to be you know,
la la la in my own little brainyear, whatever. We've we crashed
all the places.
Jon Dieringer (13:30):
So it's sort of like you get the Kelly Reichardt
tour if you watch it. Yeah,right. Yeah. Kelly. Well,
Kelly Reichardt (13:38):
yeah, but it's a lot. It would be a lot of
people's. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
John Raymond to and storm Thorpeall these people I mentioned
like, it's, yeah,
Jon Dieringer (13:48):
I mean, that's something that I think is really
wonderful about the film eveneven visually is it looks very
lived in like the studios. Youknow, I didn't want to presume
watching it that you had filmedin actual artists studios, but
apparently you're saying that is
Kelly Reichardt (14:02):
place but they all got dressed to be other
people's studios. I mean, webrought a lot of Cynthia latte
stuff over to even though wherewe were shooting is the
apartment of another studio. Weemptied it and brought in all
her stuff because everything wasdressed in revamped for and
(14:23):
everything hand selected for thecharacters. But the so yeah, we
moved everything out of thoseapartments from the artists that
live there move stuff in. Yes.
Is to be Yeah,
Jon Dieringer (14:36):
I mean, it all looks very, very used and like a
very real and very loving Yeah,like even just a little, I don't
know, jars of
Kelly Reichardt (14:46):
that. A lot of that. Our decorator AMI, who's
in Tony Despero. That's a goodteam for making things lived in.
Jon Dieringer (14:57):
Yeah. And you've worked together in a number or
films? Is that correct? And likea lot of the crew? I mean, could
you talk about this group ofpeople that has been assembled
over the years and you know,Christopher Blauvelt, who I had
spoken to before?
Kelly Reichardt (15:13):
Yes. Blog, it's pretty essential in my
filmmaking now. I mean, I mean,finding the right DPS really
took a long time and was hard.
And we've made five featurestogether. And one of those
shorts, Chris shot, and yeah,and so and you're, you're kind
(15:33):
of just picking up where youleft off. And you have a common
language by now. And we've like,you know, he's shot so many
tests we have, you know, it'skind of all your tests it for
what you can remember just onvarious lenses or whatever. I
mean, it's just, it's great. I,yeah, I? Yes. He's great. He's
(15:55):
awful. Don't use them.
Jon Dieringer (16:00):
Yeah, it would be a shame if he would, you know,
have other work come up.
Kelly Reichardt (16:06):
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you get in theserelationships that have been
ongoing. It's Janet Weiss, greatdrummer and of quasi and also
fabulous location, Scout. Yeah,she did first cow. And, and
then, of course, Neil, cop andinitial Johnny, the producers
I've been working with. Andsince old joy.
Jon Dieringer (16:27):
And then of course, Michelle seems to really
anchor a number of the film's aswell. So
Kelly Reichardt (16:33):
look, row comes back. A lot of people come back.
Yeah, yeah. Michelle, and yes,she does a lot of stuff in
between. And I've done some dothings in between, and then you
meet again, and it's great,because you both have like,
picked up some, some more tricksof the trade on the
Jon Dieringer (16:54):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that three of
the people in this film werenominated for Oscars, I think
Michelle's work here, it's alot. I don't know, maybe it
feels like a little moreinterior? If that's fair to say,
Yeah. Could you talk aboutshaping that performance and
collaborating with Michelle?
Kelly Reichardt (17:12):
I mean, gosh, it's such a, you know, what the
film is about, it's a process,everything's a process. And, you
know, first, the first sort of,beginnings of it is, you know,
the gossip stage with, as welike to call it with John,
during out, you know, the saladof, you know, taking things from
a bunch of different places, andpeople and all and forming these
(17:36):
two characters. And
Jon Dieringer (17:38):
so also, when can you elaborate on the calling of
the gossip stage, like, you'resort of sharing stories or
anecdotes,
Kelly Reichardt (17:46):
just taking pieces of how people were
anxiety approached other peopleapproach the world, I mean, you
know, even ourselves, and sortof, it's like a collage that
comes together, right. And somepeople aren't even, you know,
might not even be people weknow, personally, like, you read
(18:07):
something of someone, or from abook or any, you know, sky's the
limit. It's not all just like,out of our little neighborhood,
then there's that phase. Andthen I like a lot of images, and
I work with a lot of images of,I had, like, all these different
women working in clay. And I'mlike, how does this all gonna?
Now I gotta get into the realityof casting it. One really
(18:32):
important person was Lee bhana.
Cue the sculptor. And when I hadimages of her, I really thought,
oh, you know, I see, Michelle,this is great. Like, it helps me
to have a simple minded person,it helps me to have an image of
a person in actual, you know, itwas nice to have an image of a
(18:54):
sculptor, that I could see someresemblance in, and it was a, it
was talking to Michelle, andthen you know, Michelle, I'm
kind of talking to her about whothe character is. But then she
and Hong are each spending timewith the artists whose work
they're using, so they can feelcomfortable with the art. And,
(19:14):
you know, I say, well, thisisn't, you know, the person that
you're, but I'm sure it'simpossible for them to not
absorb things from those people,because they're learning that's
really personal art, and they'relearning stuff from those women
spending time at their studiosand that kind of thing. And
whatever they're bringing to itin their own stuff, and then you
(19:36):
know, boys posture and then it'salways a big deal when everyone
gets in their costumes and, youknow, getting the clothes right
and the shoes right and all ofthat kind of stuff. Gosh, I wish
I could remember it. I won't beable to remember what it says so
I can't quote from it. But I Ijust read, you know, a Dave
Hickey. I think it's an olderDave Hickey piece about Robert
(19:57):
Mitchum. I won't try to say whatit's all about. It's kind of
like how everything in the scenelike the props, and everything's
real except for the actor, and,you know, being becoming as real
as the pot of coffee or whateverit is. interpretation of it, but
Jon Dieringer (20:17):
no, I think I understand what you're saying.
Yeah. And I mean, I thinkMichelle fits really well into
this milieu that you've created,you know, which is a place that
also exists. It's, as you'resaying, it's kind of like your
backyard, but she feels like shebelongs there. When you watch
the movie, you know, she kind ofdisappears or melds into it, you
(20:39):
know, which is the case with allthe actors, as well, you know,
Hong Chow and Jed Hirsch. Yeah.
Andre Benjamin. You know, Ithink it's really remarkable
when you take someone like, youknow, Andre Benjamin, who's such
a, you know, such a superstar,and he works so well is just the
killing guy.
Kelly Reichardt (20:59):
Well, he went out Long Beach, where I'd made
that short to learn the kills.
And I thought he'd go out therefor a day. And then he's just
like, texting me at the end ofthe day, like, oh, man, Clay. I
knew it in this and they justkept going back, you know? So.
Jon Dieringer (21:20):
Yeah, you see, like a ceramics joke. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt (21:23):
Super time. We got him. He was pretty
comfortable. Handling stuff andwith the kilns and he, yeah, he,
we wanted this person to be.
Yeah, like the kiln guru. And,and he's got that vibe, for
sure.
Jon Dieringer (21:43):
Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (21:44):
he doesn't get so yeah, great.
Jon Dieringer (21:48):
Well, I love I love the way he plays off that
scene where you know, where thepieces kind of burned. I think
there's an element to the filmwhere everyone's just like a
little too chill, maybe. Whichfeels very real to me. You know,
it's not necessarily thatLizzie's. Yeah, exactly. And,
you know, Lizzie's maybe alittle more high strung, but
(22:11):
it's also that everyone elsearound her feels like a little
too easygoing about everything.
Kelly Reichardt (22:19):
And so people, you know, easygoing is the, you
know, the thing. They were onthe outside. And, yeah, and that
works in a certain way. Because,you know, everyone wants to be
the easygoing person. Right, youknow, an early thing. John's
description, an earlydescription John had of Lizzie
(22:42):
when we're starting out with atrapped badger. And I really
thought that was like a greatway of looking at her. And I
understood like exactly whatthat meant. Yeah, but yeah, it's
true. So Andres, like the theAndres character, Eric is the
you know, yeah, he's theultimate. He's truly at ease.
Jon Dieringer (23:05):
Yeah, he seems very unflappable. Can you talk
about working with Jed Hirsch?
Because, you know, he's such aiconic actor. And he's so funny
in this film. And yet anotherexample of a character who's
very loose,
Kelly Reichardt (23:21):
supposedly, yeah, yeah, maybe a little in
denial and distracting himselfby he's got a little that
character has a little ofdifferent people in it a little
my dad in there, for sure.
Especially with just havingwhoever come over and stay on
your couch. And Jed was. He's atotal character in real life.
(23:42):
And he seems like he isn't, itseems like you can't get his
attention and he's not going tofocus. And he doesn't focus
until the scene starts. And thenhe, I really, the scene of him
and Michelle in his studio. I'venever shot a scene where I've
felt emotional, like the scenewas being shot. And I felt
(24:03):
emotional, why that scene wasbeing shot. And he he just he
gets with it and he really hedoes it. This every take is
different. And he can even putthe humor in a different place.
And and his total ability to belike the I don't know what's
(24:26):
going on guy, Dad, I mean, Iknew he was doing I thought it
was great when we were shootingbut like being in the editing
room with his takes and justreally going through stuff. I
was like Wow, man. He really diddifferent things constantly. And
all good. Like they were allones you'd takes you could use
(24:50):
and it would make the scenedifferent. It was It was, yeah,
it was great. He's a greatactor.
Jon Dieringer (25:04):
Yeah, the gallery Lizzie's opening, watching him
sort of engage the othercharacters. I almost got the
sense that maybe on the set hehad he had been similarly just
kind of like, bullshitting witheveryone. Can now Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt (25:22):
yeah. Over here. We're rolling. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer (25:27):
Just kind of like holding up the same thing.
Kelly Reichardt (25:29):
He's just doing the thing. Yeah, he and him and
Amanda just as two peopletogether. That's pretty good.
You know, Amanda Plummer andMatt Malloy. Their hearts aren't
really that huge, but they're sogreat. And they're bringing you
know so much with them. And Ithat's a really wonderful thing.
Yeah,
Jon Dieringer (25:48):
I know.
Obviously, you're, likecompletely inundated with a
release of this film. Now. Isthe process in gear for the
next. Like, how does?
Kelly Reichardt (25:58):
Oh, my God, I can't even think about
Jon Dieringer (26:00):
anything. Okay, okay. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt (26:03):
Just go and see the movie. And that's best.
Jon Dieringer (26:07):
Yeah. Go see the film. Check out light industry.
Yeah, right. Yeah, subscribe toScreen Slate. Yeah, thanks.
Whoo. Awesome. Thanks.
Kelly Reichardt (26:19):
All right.
Yeah. I love what you guys dothere. So thank you. It's a good
thing. Yeah. I'm into it.
Jon Dieringer (26:32):
This has been the Screen Slate Podcast. Thanks for
listening. Thanks to everyone at824 who helped us set this up.
And of course, a huge shout outto everyone who supports us on
Patreon. Visitpatreon.com/screen slate to
become a member JOIN OUR DISCORDand get other perks. And be sure
to follow the pod on iTunes,Spotify, Google or wherever you
get your pods. And a reminder tothat we have one with showing up
(26:54):
cinematographer Christopher Blaubelt in the archives. So take a
peek and check that one out. Wehave another pod next week with
Christopher Bartley, director ofthe fantastic new film sick of
myself, and I'll be moderating aq&a with him Wednesday evening
at IFC Center. So keep an eyeout for that one. All right.
We'll see you soon and thanksagain.
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