Surface Interval - Lissa, Don & Matt - S01 E18 - The Scuba GOAT Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:04):
The podcast for the inquisitive diver.

Matt Waters (00:06):
Hey, there dive buddies and welcome to the
season finale. Over the past 10months we've taken the plunge 18
times and it's time for a shortsurface interval. I have a
couple of peeps joining me inthe studio today. The first is
an old fellow that's been on theshow before takes a bloody good
underwater photo andconveniently forgets every time
it's his turn to buy the beers.
We'll get to him in a mo. Thenewbie, diving right in, is
arguably Sea Shepherd's numberone fan has a raucous laugh to

(00:27):
challenge any of us in thestudio, and is one of my good
dive buddies right here inSydney, but don't even know her
surname. Hiya Lissa.

Lissa Rebec (00:36):
Hi.

Hi, Don.

Don Silcock (00:38):
Good day.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you. Do you want to know my
surname? Lisa Rebec.

Oh, it is Rebec?

Yeah,

I thought it was abbreviated or shortened so that
you had some kind of, you know,difficulty trying to find you on
social media and stuff likethat.

Well, I'm Lissa Marie. So yeah, I just use that.
So no one really knows mysurname.

Yeah. Oh, I found the Rebec somewhere, it was on
one of the social things. Ithought it was like it was
shortened from Rebecca orsomething like that.

Could be. Yeah, I do sometimes get emails. "Dear,
Rebecca."

Brilliant. Well, seeing as you're the newbie on
the show today, why don't yougive us a little bit of a
background on who you are andwhat you're doing here.

Okay, so I love the ocean. I love scuba diving. And
that's how we met. Through ourconnection with scuba diving. I
happen to be a very bigsupporter of Sea Shepherd. And
quite recently, I have been madea coordinator of the Sydney
South chapter. So there was theSydney chapter. But that's been

(01:44):
divided into two because it'ssuch a huge area to cover. So
I've now been squeezed and beinggiven my own chapter so we can
concentrate with raising fundsdown in the south.

So being a chapter, does that mean they have to wear
a leather waistcoat and ride amotorbike?

Maybe in the future? No, but definitely have
the wardrobe. I think I ownevery Sea Shepherd merchandise
known to man. So yeah.
Excellent.

Well, congratulations on getting your
own chapter.

Thank you. So we're in the works of setting that up.
So I've been doubly busy thisweek trying to do that. So
exciting things happening, we'rerecovering, we're recovering
from after COVID. So there'sbeen quite a few events that
have been cancelled as a resultof COVID. So we're hopefully

(02:39):
getting more of a presence inSydney.

And so, because I'm relatively new to the Sea
Shepherd kind of thing inAustralia, but I would have
thought that Sydney would havehad quite a strong presence,
because I've always seen on yoursocial media, like the markets
and stuff like that. So but itneeds it needs bolstering, eh?

it does, because Sydney's such a huge area to
cover there is and, as you know,Sydney traffic is crazy. So you
need to, you need differentareas of concentration. So
Sydney is actually cut up ofcentral coast where they have
lots of events there. And thenwe've got the Sydney area and

(03:19):
I'll cover the South. So down toCronulla, Wollongong, all the
way down to Jarvis. We've got acouple of volunteers down there.
So

How did that happen? How did you get the gig?
Did they come to you?

Well, thats an interesting story. I've been
involved with Sea Shepherd for acouple of years now. And I have
pretty much gone to them andsaid I'd like to do a market
here. And I've just been slowlybut surely creeping my way in
doing markets here and there.
And, and then I eventually gotto have merchandise at my house
so that I can do my own markets.

(04:00):
Yeah. And then they've justsaid, Well, hey, you're doing it
already do kind of want your ownsub chapter and concentrate on
that area. And Sydney willconcentrate on their area and
Central Coastal, concentrate onthem. And yeah, build it.

Have you met the man, Paul Watson, yet?

That's the dream.
No, No, I haven't.

He's quite a...
quite a character, isn't he?

He certainly is certainly is very, very
passionate. Have you seen"Watson" the film?

No, I haven't, no.

it's a very, it's a great film. So it speaks about
how he was the co founder ofGreenpeace. So then he broke
away and he started SeaShepherd. Yeah, and the rest is
history. So I implore you towatch it .It's er... it's
amazing.

It's on Netflix or where can you see it?

It's you can stream it, I believe on Amazon.

I think so, I think there's a few

There's a few streaming, yeah, but
unfortunately it's not onNetflix.

Okay, I'll find it.

Yeah.

There was a couple on YouTube I saw the other day.

Yeah, there's quite a few on YouTube. So there would
be "Chasing Thunder" on YouTube,which is one of the Sea Shepherd
campaigns. It's.. yeah. Thatwe're chasing...

It's quite amazing what they do. Isn't it? Really?
You know, so committed?

Absolutely.
Absolutely. So my role isfundraising.

So she does it quite well, mate. To give you a
bit of a backstory,

she got some money out of you

Oh yeah! Straight away mate.

It's my gift.

We've kind of got, we got put in touch with each
other from a mutual mate fromwhen I was doing some, some runs
down to Margo and Cobargo lastyear when the when the bushfires
were on and a mutual mate said"oh you should meet this chick.
She's She's a diver as well. Soyou've got to know each other".
Of course, I've got to knowevery diver in the world because
we're divers. So we ended up allgetting together and going for

(06:05):
the first dive. And the veryfirst, well, within five minutes
of rocking up, she pulls up inher ute, pulls down the back
tail end, and says "oh, I've gotsome t shirts and some hoodies
and I've got a five XL I'venever been able to get rid of Do
you want it?"

Yeah, absolutely.
This was during COVID. So that'how we stayed afloat and ende
up raising money. It was justhrough our online merchandis
and Sea Shepherd are verpassionate. So they speak fo
themselves. And we have sucgreat supporters. So yeah
absolutely

Lissa's other hal , Rod . He gets Christmas
nd birthdays, its all Sea Sheherd stuff. He sponsored
y Sea Shepherd.

All the sizes don't fit him as well. Really a
coincidence, isn't it?

And there are so many shirts that he's yet to
get.

Oh, bet he's over the moon with that.

Good on you.

Yeah. Well, just moving away from Lissa for a
second. For those people thathaven't listened to..er, I can't
even remember the episode numbernow. I think it was 16...15 or
16. Don was on then. But sincethen, Don's moved up into the
realms of being the Gods ofscuba diving,

Oh, I wish

What's that? What's the... What's the news, dude?

Well, I've been appointed as senior travel
editor for Scuba Diver magazine,all three editions, the ANZ one,
the UK and the US one, which isa great step forward for me. I
am quite passionate aboutwriting about the things I do
and the things I've seen andwhat it all means. And this is a

(07:50):
great...it's kind of a win winopportunity, they were looking
for somebody to contribute on abroad scale, shall we say? Which
kind of aligned with all thestuff I've been doing and all
the stuff I hope to do goingforward. So I've got the first
have got the front cover of theUK edition with an article on

(08:10):
the Oceanic White Tips of CatIsland and the next two issues,
we'll have the hammerheads ofBimini and then Tiger beach will
be the third one.

Yeah.

And then I've been doing all the stuff with the
Australia New Zealand one. I'vehad numerous articles in there
and about five, four or fivefront covers, which have been
great. You know, it's frontcovers are uh, you know, are the
the big prize, you know, anykind of, you know, you can show
your mum. She'd be so proud.
Well, if only she could see menow, you know. Yeah, but no,

(08:44):
it's it's, you know, for aphotographer. It's a big thing
to get front cover and yeah, soI'm really happy about it .They
play win win and uh, yeah, we'llsee where it takes us.

Yeah, exactly.
We'll see where it takes us. Youknow, as the travel editor, I'm
sure you're gonna go places. Andyou know, I'm very good at
carrying bags.

Actually, can you take your ticket because there's
a queue?

Do you need any Sea Shepherd t shirts?

Thought you'd never ask.

See? Told you she was good.

Yeah.

We're actually...
Sea Shepherd have a campaigncalled the Apex Campaign. Have
you heard of it?

no

Whoa, whoa, whoa.
That means that you've notyou've not listened to this
podcast other than your own.

Listen to my segment day after day. No idea.
There was something else outthere. Oh, my goodness.

You're not coming on again.

It's only been two weeks. I've listened to it every
day.

Guess what you're doing tomorrow?

Yeah. Oh, clearly.

Sorry. Carry on Lissa.

So just in a nutshell, because I won't go on
a big spiel, but the ApexCampaign is targeting non lethal
methods for shark control. Sogetting rid of shark nets and
drum lines, which cause a lot ofharm and deaths to marine
animals as well as sharks, sothe Apex Campaign campaigns for

(10:23):
non lethal methods to for youknow, people to be safe in the
ocean, but also to not harmsharks, and, you know,
predominantly other marinespecies that seem to be caught
up in in these drum lines andshark nets,

which is, uh, it's horrendous the damage that's
been done by all this, you know,long liners and the whole thing
of the way that sharks have beenthe indirect victims, but on a
huge scale, massive scale. Sothat was for me, was the big
thing of going to the Bahamaswas there were sharks.

(11:00):
Everywhere else you go, you'relucky if you see them.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Really, you know, it's it's, you're lucky if you
see them,

yeah.

But when you get to the Bahamas, because of
everything they've done there,it's not a perfect thing. But
it's a lot. It's the best thatI've personally seen in terms
of, you know, there's sharksthere.

Yeah. And the income for the local community
must be huge.

The, the economic benefits of a live shark versus
a dead shark are significant,very significant. And the thing
is when you remove them.. I meanthe sharks are there, as Jim
Abernathy said to me, once. Jimis one of the pioneers of Tiger
beach, he said, the you know,the role of the shark is to
clear up the dead, the dumb andthe dying.

Yeah.

Which sounds like a great soundbite. But they've got
a real role to play. Because ifthey're not there, everything
gets out of kilter. It's a finebalance. Yes. It's an absolutely
fine balance, and they have arole to play. And you take them
out 90% said to have gone theneverything gets thrown out of

(12:02):
balance. The marvellous thingis, what you see in the Bahamas
is how they can come backstrongly, when we get out the
way. When we stop doing allthese things that you were
referring to, they have atremendous capacity to rebuild.
So there, there is hope outthere. Before we have to stop
doing these things.

Yeah, have to get the crap out of the water. The,
the podcast that you didn'tlisten to

yet

was er, was Lisa's compadre up in Queensland,
Jonno, and he's the coordinatorfor the Apex Campaign. And he
goes into detail about the longlines, the drum lines, and the
the nets. And it doesn't take agenius to work out that if you
put a bloody big fish head on ahonking great hook, you're going
to get something big. And if youleave a net dangling in the

(12:52):
water, you're going to getsomething big eventually. And
unfortunately, it's not justsharks like Lisa said, you know,
it's been loggerhead turtles.

All the bycatch.
It's horrendous. And the thingis, it's unseen. We we don't see
it.

Yeah, well, thats what the Apex Campaign is trying
to do. Because Jonno will go outon the Rhib with a team and if
they find something in the netsor on the on the hooks, they'll
go down with the cameras, andthey'll record it and get, and
get, you know, you know, prettycrappy evidence or not crappy as
in poor quality. But, you know,

yeah, in your face,

not, not what we like to see

exactly,

it's actually what we do need to see.

It's absolutely what we need to see because
we're the lucky ones. We get togo underwater. Everybody else
doesn't. And they just doesn'tknow.

mechanical voice (13:36):
Could you try again?

Oh, that's that's Don buying the beers on the next
one.

Yeah. So where was I ? We get to see this stuff?

Yeah,

If we're lucky as divers. The vast percentage of
the population have no idea. Butit's serious stuff. It really
does matter.

Yeah.

What does the Bahamas do so well?

Well, what they were one of the first countries
to set up marine protectedareas, MBAs, right so and then
they they have over I think amillion square miles of, of
area. Because, you know, theBahamas is a lot you know,
there's islands, but there's alot of sea. But they were one of

(14:23):
the first nations to set it up,which given the benefit of
hindsight, was phenomenal,farsighted decision, and then
they I think they were thefourth nations to create a shark
sanctuary. So there's no take ofany sharks. And the population
has rebounded. The first time Iwent there was to Tiger beach

(14:47):
which is in Grand Bahama in thenorth. And I just couldn't
believe when we pulled up, thatthere was all the sharks around
the back of the boat. You don'tsee that anywhere else. I've
never seen anywhere and It'squite intimidating your first
time getting in. You're thinking"Oh my god!", you know, all
these shark fins is, you know,must be dangerous. And then you

(15:08):
get in and there's sharkseverywhere. They're there in
that area because it's a knownaggregation point and also some
of the boats feed.

Yeah.

So they turn up snacking. And then you get...
it's the place to see Tigersharks. That's why you go there,

hence the name (15:23):
Tiger beach. But they're there because there's
plenty of food and it's a safezone for them. And the number,
the magnitude, the number, thesize, is is, it's mind boggling
really. If you're used to thediving everywhere else? Where
you typically don't see a lot ofsharks, you might see one or two

(15:44):
sharks, but you won't see a lot.
Wheras there, they're, you know,they're everywhere?

Yeah, the free food

and no nets on the beaches?

No.

Great.

They're not needed.
Because, well, nets...

It's not allowed.
It's a shark sanctuary.

And the drum lines.
What I.. what did astound mewhen Jonno was going on about
the drum lines is how close theyare to the surface. And they
put, you know, they put bait ona hook to entice a shark to
chomp on the hook. When it's,you know, a stone's throw from
the surface that they're tryingto protect. It's just false.

Yeah,

They're actually luring in stuff that is going to
cause a problem for us.
Someone's gonna get snagged. Ido have two, actually there's
two bits of info I want to shoutout about. One is continuing on
from Apex Harmony, because thatgets a shout out on a
documentary that's coming up. InJuly, I think it's been
premiered.

Is tha

That's the one!

21st of July there, Matt.

There you go. Boom, straight on it. But as I've been
chatting to the director, AndreaBorella. And I'm pretty stoked
he's going to come on the showas and when it launches.
Excellent. But it's, it's gotEric Bana on there, thats
narrating it all. And it'sfocused on Apex Harmony and the
impact of what Australia isdoing with the sharks around

(17:06):
this coastline. Isn't it?

yeah, it'll be in cinemas all around Australia

and the world hopefully,

hopefully, hopefully, it can get as much
momentum as "Seaspiracy",because we have seen a lot of
interest in the ocean since"Seaspiracy" came out, which is
a positive, such change needs tohappen.

It's well, it's probably going to be really good
timing actually, was it 6,7,8months on from "Seaspiracy" when
it launches?

Yeah, absolutely.

We'll still have momentum.

And you can get your Sea Shepherd merchandise.

As it happens,

Had to throw that in there.

And the second bit of info I want to share with you
is we've got to give a hugeshout out to Robin Gallagher. Do
you know who that is?

no,

clue?

no clue,

Because there's not a lot known about this person.
But this person is actually anambassador for a charity called
Shark Guardian. And theypetitioned UK Government.
Because it was it was found outthat you could legally import 20
kilos of sharkfin in yourluggage as a traveller into the

(18:25):
Yeah, 20 kilos. Andit was legal. So the petition
UK.

Really?
said," This is dogshit, itshould stop" in a nutshell. And
Shark Guardian jumped on onboard and ran with it. And
Brandon and Liz have beenrelentless in hounding down, you

(18:46):
know, sponsorship signatures,and we had to get 100,000 plus
signatures and there wassuccess, which then saw it get
mentioned in Parliament in theUK. And subsequently, we've now
got the information. And Brendanwas chatting with me this
morning, that they're now goingto ban all import and export

(19:08):
because they were exportingsharkfin from the UK.

Yay.

So it's a huge success. And it's all down to
this one person. RobinGallagher.

Thank you, Robin Gallagher.

These things are so important. Raising the raising
the awareness of the generalpublic about what's happening.
The best example I can think ofis Yao Ming. Do you know who he
is?

Nope. Oh, yes, I do actually.

They used to play for the I think was the Houston
Astros. He's seven foot five.

Yeah.

Well, I could I could, I could walk underneath

Can't miss him.
him. So he's returned to Chinaand he's a megastar there
because of his success he had inthe US basketball, and WildAid
managed to convince him to bethe spokesperson locally to stop

(20:03):
eating sharkfin soup. And he'sbeen phenomenally successful. So
to the point where the it seemsto be having, you know, an
overall impact on the decline ofthe in demand for shark fin,
because it's to the point wheresort of the younger generation,
shall we say? He's iconic tothem. So when he says don't do

(20:28):
and some of the imagery of theuse and the explainer, you know,
it's really well done. And it'shaving, it's to the point where
it's frowned upon now with theyounger generation and China,
whereas before it would havebeen seen as something you
needed to do to, you know, tojust show that you've got some
money, yeah, you can afford thisstuff. That's the way it works.

(20:49):
And he's done a phenomenal job.
He's just amazing what can bedone, if you change that public
perception?
I'd Like to seemore on that, actually, I've not
seen many reports on it. But Idid see the..., I think it was a
while ago now,probably a yearago

I just looked it up today. I was writing something,
as you do you know, when you'rea senior travel editor.

just mention that to your bag carrier again,

couldn't ..you know. Did I mention that about
senior editor? So I was just infact checking, actually, to see
if it was still there. And Iwent to WildAid. And Yao Ming,
and is still there. It shows. Itreally explains really well on
on their, on their site. I justthink it's a great example of
taking a high profile individualwho commits to doing something

(21:40):
for you, and changes that publicperception and dri... at the end
of the day, unless you drivedown that demand, they'll
always, you know, the bad peoplewill always find a way to make
money out of it.

Yeah,

Right?. But the demand declines, then they'll
move on to something else.

Yeah..

Hmm. Didn't he also advocate for not eating whale
meat as well. So I think that'sthat's declined as well.

I don't think eating whale is a big thing in
China. It is in Japan. Yeah.

In Japan.. and I think you know, people don't
know, but Norway also do whalingas well. But everyone always
points the finger at Japan. Ithink though, yeah, there has
been like the younger generationturning against eating whale as
well. Which is, yeah, it's justnot popular. Which is good. Good
for win for the whale.

How's that coffee?

It's tea.

Is it tea?

It's tea. Yeah.

Is it like a hippie tea or something? Or is it a
normal one?

Oh, no, it's just black tea. It's... It's doing
its job.

How'd you with that beer there Rod?.

Going good. Rod?.

Rod? Don,

We need a refill.

Well, we've got a Rob.

Ye..oh, we've got a Rob, yeah. Yeah, we've got
Lissa's other half quietlysitting in the background. So
yeah, he can be he can berefilled, man.

Did we tell you what happened on Saturday night?

You're gonna get a little bit, you know, naughty
naughty. Okay. Is this okay, forhearing?

It is. I will actually be the judge of that.
So I think we did. We wereplanning on going diving on
Sunday, but that had to bebenched because we went ice
skating on Saturday night. And Ithought I was doing really
amazing until I had a bit of aslide and I fell on my coccyx,

(23:29):
my tailbone.

Did you laugh, Rob?

I think on the inside. That really freaking
hurts.

To be honest. You probably didn't miss much about
because you were gonna gotoShelly Beach weren't you?

yeah.

I don't think you'd have missed much.

No, apparently the conditions have been rubbish.
Like in Sydney. Yeah, even justyeah, it looked really rough at
Cronulla.

Someone's been posting, you know, satellite
imagery. You know, when we hadall the rain, you could see all
the rubbish coming out of theestuaries. And I was up in
Hawkesbury yesterday. And Istopped by there's a beautiful
little spot, bridge going overit. Stop, stop and have a
stretch of the legs. And I wasthere six weeks ago. And in

(24:21):
between then and now. I thinkthe water levels probably raised
up by about four to five metres

Really?

So many trees have been washed , fallen over. And
it's honking through. The waterthere is thick chocolate brown.
It's just honking through.

Meanwhile, I was talking to a friend in from
Byron today, uhhh, 15 to 20metres viz

which friend was this?

This was Andrew.

Do I know Andrew?

He's one of the locals that dives weekly at
Sundive dive centre which is ourfavourite dive partner.

Andrew Delt he's an old boy.

Yeah,

I think I dived with him a few months ago.

He's part of Apex.

Oh Ok.

Sorry. Yeah, I was talking to him today. And he
said, dive conditions wereamazing. Yeah, no one likes a
bragger.

The impact of that, all that floodwater. I saw it
firsthand the week before last,I spent a couple days at er,
Nelson Bay.

Yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah.

So there's some great, there's my one of my
favourite sites there, is FlyPoint. Which is, you know, it's
a protected area. It's justphenomenal what's there when you
er, I was really, I'd heardabout it years ago. And since
I've been back in Australia,I've been up there a few times
and I was just blown away thefirst time I got in the you

(25:43):
know, the diversity the colourthat all the sponges, is
just fantastic. But the becaue of all the freshwater, down
to about seven metres ther's nothing. It's just all g ne.
completely gone.
All the kelp and just justnothing.

What like, literally wiped out?

Wiped out. Because of all the, all the freshwater
has gone through and killedeverything. I mean, it's a
natural thing. It's not it'snot, you know, it's not the
first flood is it? So it willcome back. But the impact of
this you know what you're sayingabout the water coming down to
hawkesbury that anything that's,you know, seawater environment

(26:22):
won't last long in freshwater.

Yeah, bloody hell.
See I've been meaning to do FlyPoint so many times.

Where it's that?

Just north of Nelson, the north side of Nelson
Bay.

Because what did we... have you done the Looking
Glass?

Oh, out at Broughton Island? No,in fact
I've done Broughton Island. Butwhen I've been out there, we
hard to get on it. You know,it's you need the right
conditions and it's never beenright. So I tend to, when I go
up there I just concentrate onFly Point because it's so good.
It's so good below seven metres.
The, you know, that obviouslythat top layer is where all the

(26:57):
freshwater came, came out. Andit's killed everything. But
it'll come back. It'll growback. But down below seven
metres. It's still very vibrant.
But a lot of critters have gone.
There was all sorts of stuffthere before. But clearly that's
had an impact but it will comeback there, you know, it's a
natural cycle.

In fact, I saw some of your social media this week.
How much did your ass twitchwhen you saw that eel, the
estuary eel

Ha ha , that was at Fly Point

I literally saw saw me first one like four weeks
ago

Well so did I , that was it...

Had to take a a double take of it. I was like
"what the hell is that thing?"

Well, it was, it was, funny thing was, I was
looking at something else. Andyou know, you get that feeling
that somebody is looking atyou.and I turned round and it
was like "what the...?" So it'sthis is er, I can't remember the
scientific name, but it's anestuary eel which is like a
cross between a Moray and acatfish. It's got the face of a
catfish and the body of a MorayEel and it's yellow in colour.

It looks like he's been eating too much kelp over
his life doesn't it?

I don't know but it is It is behind apparently,
you've got to be careful becausethey've got poisonous spines on
the back. But I just didn't knowwhat the hell it was I've never
seen anything like it before.
And I spent the whole dive withit, you know, go off and it'd
dissappear and come back outagain. And the image you're
talking about was that it took ashine to itself in the dome port
of my camera. So I put the dormport of the camera down. I could

(28:27):
see it was interested so I kindof thought I'll put the dome
port, just put it down and itjust came forward and came
forward in the end it was justright on the dome looking at
itself. Couldn't quite work outyou know "who's that good
looking fellow there" you know?
Yeah, interesting.

My missus was closer to the one that we saw,
but in a long line on her leftalong her left side and I
pointed out I was like okay, youknow indicate "get some film of
it" and her eyes just said theone thing " sod off!" She wasn't
going anywhere near it.

You go, you go

Are they known to be aggressive?

Apparently not.
Apparently they they havethese... some poisonous
mechanism, I believe its spineson the on the... on the er,
like a bit of a dorsal fin thatruns down the their back, which
are , as I say, poisonous, butthey spend, from the various
comments that were on my post,indicate that they spend most of
the time hidden under ledges andwhat have you. So you would...

(29:30):
No, the short answer is no,they're not. They're not
aggressive unless you annoythem. But this one was out
roaming round. And

There you Lissa, that's the photo.

Wooow.

Exactly.

Yeah, look at that.

If you're going to dress up for Halloween, it would
be that,Wouldn't it?

Yeah! Wow. Have yo been to the Maldives? Have any
f you been to the Maldives

Oh years ago, yeah.

Did you ever do that dive off the back of the
tuna factory?

no,

There's this dive that they do off the back of the
tuna factory, and it's, it'sjust within, I want to say,
about eight metres of water. So,from five to eight metres of
water, and then there are justthese massive fat, moray eels
because they just hide in theirlittle caves and they just wait
for the bits of tuna heads tocome in and they just feed and

(30:27):
they're massive. And then yougot rays coming through and it's
just ...you just have to justsit there and film

Its a free feed isn't it?

yeah, it's amazing, but I couldn't get over the size
of these massive big eels.

Have you heard of the... I'll try and match that
and raise you. Theres a place inAmbon called The Twilight Zone?
Have you heard of that one?

I've heard of it , yeah.

so it's the, er..
in Ambon. The uhm, there's ahuge natural harbour there. And
on the, I think it's on the westside, is the Pertamina jetty for
the aircraft fuel that comesinto the nearby airport

that's right, yeah.

And there's a large kind of fishing fleet, who moors
up there, that that moors upthere. And they go out at night
and catch everything, bring itback in and then they fillet it
all and throw all the stuff overthe side, while they're moored
up. And then so you've got allthis stuff coming down. And
then,er, it's terrible as suchin Ambon because they throw

(31:33):
everything into the sea. Youknow, if you coming up from the
Banda sea, you know you'regetting close, you see all the
plastic bags, what they do isthey, or they used to I don't
know if its changed, but they'd,you know, the rubbish would be
in a plastic bag and they'dthrow on the beach, and it'd be
gone in the morning. It's alldrifting out. So you knew we're
getting close to Ambon, becausethe number of plastic bags will

(31:54):
increase in the water, in theplaces you went diving. So they
have this terrible habit ofthrowing everything in the
water. But the Twilight Zone isthis mixture of all this stuff,
this tires and all sorts ofstuff thrown off the jetty. And
then every day there's thisorganic stuff that rains down.
All the fish guts and you know,so you get these huge morays and

(32:16):
everything else that lives inthis and, once you're there you
know how it got its name, TheTwilight Zone, because it is,
it's really weird. All thesefishing boats, you got the
sunlight coming down. And thenevery so often, you know there'd
be all this stuff coming overthe side. All the morays would
come out. Like you said they'rereally fat and quite glossy.

I was there um, in fact when were you last in
Ambon?

six years ago.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So it's a lot cleaner
than what it was back then. Iwas there. September, October
2019.

Oh really?, it's cleaner? Well, thats good.

Well, I was based out of Spice Island Divers.

Oh, yeah.

Big shout out for Ronny there. But the dive sites
that we did, was it four? Fourdays, we were there. And we
dived four or five dives a day.
And there was very littlerubbish. So they've I think
everyone's clubbing together toactually make much more of an
effort. And it's certainly a lotbetter than what it was.

Yeah, it was horrendous, The er.. but when I
first went there in about 2008coming up from the Banda Sea.
And as I say , you just knew youwere getting closer. At first I
didn't know all this stuff was,then I realised it was old
plastic bags and rubbish and,but where's it coming from? And

(33:42):
when we got into Ambon, I askedabout it, you know, these people
said, well, that's how peopleget rid of rubbish here. Yeah,
you put the plastic bag on thebeach at night in the morning is
gone. Where's, whats theproblem?

Come on in, me mate. Beer delivery! Cheers Rob.

So I have a question. Where do we think
diving is going to go next year?
Once the I mean, all theindications are that things
should get better. And we shouldbe able to start travelling
again. But what's your opinions?

You want to go first?

Yeah, well, I think they're really gonna push the
fact we're gonna have to have avaccine. I think that's.. yeah.
And it could either go bothways. It could be really
expensive, or it could be reallycheap.

I think there's so many avenues it could go down.
I'm hoping it doesn't go downthe detrimental ones for the
operators. Theres so many diveoperators out there now that are
really struggling andfrustrated.Putting, you know,
food on the table for theirfamilies and their employees
families and trying to maintaineverything. So difficult. And

(34:56):
I'm just hoping that, whenpeople do get the availability
to go to different locationsthat they don't expect super
cheap diving and accommodationand all that kind of stuff. If
anything, we've all been sat inlockdown, that people should be,
or the customers that want to godiving, should have saved their
monies up so that they can paymore.

I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more.
It's it's kind of incumbent uponus, if you if you are into dive
travel, to get out there andsupport these people, you know,
those that make it through,those operators. I mean, there's
no plan B is there, if you'rerunning a dive operation,
everything revolves aroundpeople turning up. That's it

(35:40):
that you can't pivot to muchelse, can you? Really, you know.
You might be, you might be luckyto be able to do something to
keep some food on the table, butit's not sustainable in the
longer term, even the mediumterm, and we're getting into the
medium term now. Yeah. So thosethat make it through, it's

(36:01):
incumbent upon us to, to get outthere and support them. And
don't don't be nickeling anddiming them , you know we need
to help them. Just like we dowith the Australian operators.

Absolutely.

The Australian operators seem to be doing okay.

Yeah.

Popular spots are booked out months in advance.
Now here in Australia, which isa good thing. But it's the
operators around Asia, SoutheastAsia, that are really doing it
tough. And once we can travel,we should travel.

Yeah, I hundred percent agree.

Oh, I miss those drive trips, where you just have
to pretty much just put on yourgear.

Yeah. Just drop into the water.

Those amazing boat staff that just put your gear
together and change your tanksand help you out of the... Oh, I
missed those times.

They'll come back.

I know

They'll come back strong. The huge pent up demand,
people are just like, so over.
We've adjusted to it and we'remaking the most of it. But
there's like this huge pent updemand to go and do something.

Yeah.

So as soon as we can we should.

I'm over getting in a five mil wetsuit. And, you
know, it's a bloody big five milwetsuit at my size, freezing my
nuts off for an hour in two orthree metres viz. I want to be
in 30 metre water with myboardshorts on.

Yeeah,

I've got got kind of used to it, now I'm adjusted.
I'm going down to SouthAustralia next week, next, next
Tuesday.

Oh, you're going watching your sex show aren't
you?

Next month, I going back again. Let me qualify this,
in case my wife is listening.
The sex show is the greatAustralian cuttlefish
aggregation in Whyalla. So itstarts, it's apparently it's
just getting going now. Andwe're spending a couple of days
there. Actually, I'm going onRodney Fox, Great White Sharks.
And then a friend of mine and Iwere gonna do a couple of days

(37:56):
at Tumby Bay. And then, er forthe Leafys, and then drive up to
Whyalla have a couple of daysright at the start of the
season. Because it's differentdynamics at the beginning. And
then I'm going back next monthfor a week in Whyalla. To.. is
the, for me, it's the best.
It's not it's you know, it isall about the sex. But it's an

(38:19):
interesting dynamic. Veryinteresting dynamics. And as I
said last week, last on the lastpodcast, this reminds me of this
this disco used to go a longtime ago.

Yeah.

Back in Runcorn.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, that's cold water, because it
doesn't get going till thewater's down to, I think, it's
about 17 degrees. So yeah,you're freezing your... You, you
really are freezing your nutsoff down there, but it's good.
It's fantastic. There's somegreat diving here in Australia.
You don't have to go up north.
There's some great stuff downsouth.

Well, I think you know, since we were talking
about travelling getting away, Ithink, you know, domestic
diving, If you look atparticular locations around the
world, has done very well,because people are forced into
diving more locally. And it'sopened a lot of eyes on on
what's available on yourdoorstep. I think we're very
very lucky here. You know,joking aside at getting cold. We

(39:16):
are very lucky with thediversity that we've got.

There's some grea, I, my personal favourite is, is
South Australia. It just has aunique combination of stuff down
there. It's not the easiest oflocations logistically you've
got to get yourself organisedand to do it, but once you're in
the water, there's some quiteunique things to see down there.

Leafy seadragons

Yes, leafys...

Have you seen one?
I've yet to see one

If you Google it, you'll find my page.

Well, I know I feel like so I'm so sorry, Don.

They're wonderful creatures, but they're not the
easiest. You can be looking atthem and not see them.

Wow.

If they're, depending where they are, if
they're in the corkweed, as theycall it, you can be actually
looking at them and not see thm. People going "look look"
ointing "wha

I had that in Lembe a few years ago. Lembe Strait,
it's all macro. And it's supermacro, this tiny, tiny stuff. So
my eyes are focused on lookingfor, you know, grains of sand
for a week. And we come on thisparticular dive site, and the
dive guide was, you know,indicating there's a frogfish,
pointing, and I'm looking, I'mthinking, "I can't see that

(40:33):
bloody frog fish, whats pointingat?". So I questioned him, and
he indicates again, and points "nope, can't see it , mate". And
this is all obviously handsignals underwater, but, and
then he points out and indicatesthe area of a dinner plate. And
it was a giant frog fish. So I'mlooking at his toenail. It was a

(40:54):
monster. An absolute monster.
Blended in really well.

Have you been to Lembe?

No, but I've seen huge frog fish in Philippines.

Lembe is.. it's the critter capital of the world, if
you, if you if you're intocritters, for me, it's certainly
the best place in Indonesia.

I think Ambon has a little battle with it.

Erm, on a scale of one to 10 I'd rate Lembe a nine
I would rate Ambon an eight.
Bali about, North Coast ofBali, right places, about seven.

So I reckon Ambon and Lembe flik flak for first
and second position.

I've got to tell you a story about Lembe. So I
spent, I think it was 12 daysthere. On the back end of a trip
from Surong to through Halmaherato Lembe, we went all the way
through the top end ofIndonesia, and then got to Lembe
and we stayed there for the 12days. So, the first couple of

(41:50):
days we're going out just me andthis mate of mine, we had our
own little boat and a guide. Andyou know, you're going down
there, you're finding all sortof stuff and they point stuff
out to you. On about the dayfour, day five. The dive guide
said to me, "what would you liketo see today?" I thought he was
joking. I really thought he wasjoking. "What would you like to

(42:10):
see?" And I said, "Well, I'dlike a flamboyant cuttlefish,
please". So he says "wait just aminute". So he gets on his phone
and starts phoning around andsays" okay". I honestly thought
he was winding me up you know, Ithought he was winding me up.
So, I didn't say anything. Offwe went to one particular site
in we go and found it. Sothere's like this network of

(42:33):
guides there. And becausethey're in the water every day,
on the you know, there'snumerous different sides. They
know what's there. So the otherguides, said to him, well go
down here, turn..., and you'llfind it and sure enough, down we
went and we found it.

Wow.

So the next day, you know, I'd be like, well,
I'll have one of these. Youknow, "what would you like to
see today?"

Yeah, yeah,

amazing.

Yeah, I have a similar experience in Ambon.
That's why I say I battlebetween the two. The boys were
just as good in Ambon as theywere in Lembe. And I think its
that, it's that, it's thatpassion isn't it?. And if
there's a group of them that arewilling to communicate with each
other, everybody wins.
Yeah.

That's the thing in in Lembe. There's like this bush
network. Bush telegraph thingthat goes on and they s
And yeah, great.
are information.

Yeah, I found that in the Philippines. So I did
Malapasca... 'pascua, wherethey've got the thresher sharks.

Yeah, yeah.

So I did get to see a thresher shark. Have you ever
seen those?

Nope, nope

Wow. They're amazing. But they don't like to
come very close, So you do endup seeing them from a distance,
but still amazing.

It's like you're in the water at five o'clock in the
morning or something?

You are in the water, and you're almost you're
at 30 metres. And yeah, you'reyou're in a two mil though
because it's like thirty degreeswater. It's amazing. So you
don't mind it's like a bath.

Did you get the early morning wake up with the
chooks?

Yes, yeah.

There's a shit ton of 'em on that island

There's so ma..
yeah

I got there 2013, I think, and um, then everyone
went to bed at like, eighto'clock at night. The island
was..

Cos you're diving at five in the morning.

It was desolate.
I'm like Jesus Christ who am Imeant to have a beer with here.
I wanted to have a whiskey lateras well. But everyone had gone
to bed. So just went to bedearly.

Yeah, we 're doing five dives a day


the go. Roosters. A gazillion ofthem. I think, I think the world
has been, you know, they'vedumped their chooks on, on
Malapascua

Oh, it's such an experience. Did you even see the
threshers though?

Yeah,

You did?

Yeah.

Yeah. Although you get a whole bunch of divers that
get very overexcited and pile ontop of each other and then they
just swim away the.. Yeah. Sothat was annoying.

Did they? Have they put a... I heard they put a like
a metal line in so you can'tcross over into the...

Yeah they do, but it doesn't stop some people

really?

Yeah, it really doesn't. And that's the same
when you see a Manta. You seepeople, you're just meant to
just, you know, just go rightdown to the bottom and just
observe and let them come toyou, but everyone just seems to
chase after them and then theyjust swim away. That's that.
Yeah, but yeah, in Malapascuathat's where I saw my first
uhm... What do you call thosecreatures that can have the

(45:24):
little pincers where they canpenetrate? I've lost for words.
Thank you. Mantis shrimp.

Ah, mantis shrimp.

Yeah, you know those mantis shrimp.

They can punch really quick.

I can punch really quick. Yeah, I saw that on a
night dive in Malapascua. And Iyeah, and then in Caballo that
was critter central. Did you goto Caballo, critter central
where I saw all the little pygmyseahorses, which you can only
see through a camera lens. It'sso tiny, like millimetre

try taking a photograph of them

The most dangerous creature in the sea. The pygmy
seahorse is the most dangerouscreature in the sea. In my
experience.

It is?

yes,

whys that?

I've got into more deco trouble...
I'm serious. Theyhave this incredible ability to
know when you're about to pressthe shutter, and they turn away.
So you know, with a long lenswith a macro lens, it's like
looking through the long wrongend of a telescope. Yeah, trying

(46:27):
to find these things, you know,and then you finally find it and
you get it in focus. And you'rejust about to capture the front
cover of National Geographic.
And it turns...

You know, with a little flick of the hair, as
well

it's gone. And then and then here, you go again. And
the next thing " Beep BeepBeep!" y'know. Oh my goodness.
it's happened to me multipletimes in multiple locations.
They're incredibly photogenic.
Yeah, lovely picture pieces, butyou can really burn through
time, you're gonna get sofixated on trying to capture the
image that you forget where youare, and you forget about your

(47:06):
deco and all the rest of it.

Yeah, they're like hammerheads, for me. I'm, there
usually, go down to the deep andI'm usually chasing them. And
then your, your computer'sbeeping at you. We've all been
there. I was reallydisappointed. Don, I really
wanted to hear that they werepoisonous or something or

just deadly. Only to underwater photographers.

They must be your kryptonite.

Stick with the big stuff mate. You know the the
eyes are getting older as well.
So it's it's easier to go on thebig stuff.

Have you ever seen a mandarinfish . Aren't they
Beautiful. They do their littledance

Yeah, yeah.

The erm did you did you dive in Banda?

Yeah. I have a story.

I bet you do.

So there was myself and this French friend of mine.
She's female but really good,just a good personal friend. And
we did the night dive inBandonera to er, to do the..
late afternoon to themandarinfish and then turns into

(48:18):
a night dive. So we, we finishedthe dive. We drifted all the way
along. We got out. We walkedinto the hotel and had a beer.
They didn't blink an eyelid? Didyou know we're just sat outside
in all our dive gear. Can wehave two Bintang, Bintang besar,
please?

Did they ask you to remove all the sea urchins from
your shins first?

Didn't even blink, just seemed like kind of normal.
Of course, then we had to payand who had some money? Not me.
So, luckily somebody was passingyour knew us and lent me 100 uhm
100,000

Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's exactly where I saw him as well.

Do you know, I've... this week has been
devastating for me because, whenCOVID hit I was over in Dallas
waiting to go to Galapagos.

really?

I was on route. And they close the borders when I
was in Dallas and I had to turnaround and come back to Sydney.
So they postponed it to thisweek. So I've had to witness on
social media, my dive buddieswho I was meeting there to
travel with doing Galapagos, sothey have seen everything.

(49:34):
They've seen the hammerheads,they have seen humpback whales,
mantas, underwater Gauranas. NotGauranas, that's a drink!

Iguana's

Oh my, so that I've never hated and loved people at
the same time as much as I'vedone this week. I'm very
envious. It looks amazing thattrip.

It's, It's It's actually fantastic. And I don't
know if I told you, Don. I didhave a Galapagos expedition
ready for October 2019. Andobviously Rona stepped in and
screwed it all up. So Icancelled it across to this
year. In fact what year are wein now? Jesus... 21. So two,

(50:28):
yeah, so 20 was the originaldate, and 21 I moved it. I moved
it back to October 21. And thenme old muckers over at Blue O2
said, "Yeah, well, not sure howthis is going for later in the
year". And they were good enoughto let me put it back again. So
as frustrating as it is, I'veput it back to July 23. Just to

(50:51):
make sure, rather than doing ityear by year, and everyone's
happy, that's that's going onit. However, it did give me the
opportunity to have the entireboat again. So I've now got
another four spots on that one2023..July 2023.
And in the crossover of the

2023?
seasons, so hopefully we geteverything including the
whalesharks

in October?,

no, July,

July, see I want to go in March to actually see the
schooling hammerheads, whenthey're there.

Yeah, but you can see in July as well,

you can see it in July?,

We did. Jaz and I did April. And there's loads of
hammerheads. But you know, yousee it a couple of times, and
then you start to look aroundfor other stuff. So if you're
doing it in the crossoverbetween the seasons, then you've
got the chances of everything.
And that's why we're coming forthe July time.

What about next year?Have you got anything?

Next year? To be honest. I don't think it's a
wise decision to plan anexpedition next year. Yes,
certain locations are going tobe opening up again, but they'll
be few and far between and therewill be difficulties. Yeah. So
even my travel company, I've gotour curtain over it. And I don't
book anything, unless it'sprevious customers and friends.

(52:06):
And I'll reopen that once it'sonce it's suitable to do so. But
next year, I think it's going tobe a struggle.

Yeah, I'm...
everything I had planned.I hadseveral big trips for this year
all booked and reserved andeverything and all of them have
gone back into next year now.
And it starts in late Februaryin Cabo, Mexico, that seems to
be operating there. So if I canget there, I think that will

(52:34):
work. But then I've got two backto back trips in can't even say
properly ,Tubbatattaha...Tubbataha... to
the Philippines. You can onlyget there at a couple of months
a year,

Its the Philippine sardine run effectively.

Yeah, and then, erm...stuff in, in the Americas
and South America. I'm doing thesouthern right whales in
Argentina, hopefully.

And that's the problem. It's not the fact that
the operators aren't there. It'sthe getting there. You know that
that Galapagos Galapagos trip Imentioned, the difficulty there
is that I've got people comingfrom seven different countries.
You're not gonna guarantee thatthey're all gonna get there. And
from Australia to that side ofthe world?

Well, Americans can travel.

Yeah, but that's America and South America.

We're very fortunate here that there's
almost zero communitytransmission. Right now. What is
happening seems to be directlyrelated to the quarantine
facilities. Seems to be. Thevaccine rollout is happening.
And I think everything ispointing to the fact that we

(53:55):
should be able to starttravelling next year. I think

I was gonna, I was gonna ask, I'm surprised you've
not had it yet. I thought theobese got hit first.
Right. I thinkwe'll wrap it up gang. We've
been going for well over anhour. Lissa, thank you very much
for coming on the show.

Can I just say Don?
I didn't ask you, and I've askedyou this Matt. But um, have you
seen the documentary aboutconsta...( laughing)I can't do
this joke...I wanted to end oursession with a joke, but I just
I keep laughing at my own jokes.
I'm really bad at telling jokes

Its something about cons, cons...

Try again, go on

Have you seen the documentary about constipation?

No, I haven't.

That's right. It hasn't come out yet.
My favourite joke.

Sea Shepherd. This is your representative...

On that note, could I buy a T shirt?

Absolutely.

Erm, gang? It's a it's a trial kind of episode. I
hope you've enjoyed it. Andmaybe we'll, we'll, we'll see
how many, you know if we get 10or 12 people listening to it,
then maybe we do it again nextmonth, eh?

We never hear it.
It was shit.

Guys, thanks for being on the show.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks so much.

Cheers, guys.
Thanks everybody, the podcastfor the inquisitive diver.

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Surface Interval - Lissa, Don & Matt - S01 E18

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Surface Interval - Lissa, Don & Matt - S01 E18