Becoming Chestbrah [Part 1] | Said Sergeyevich Shavershian

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, I sit down with Said Shavershian — better known online as Chestbrah — to explore the roots of his journey. We talk about his early life in Russia, migrating to Australia as a child, and the challenges he faced growing up, from language barriers to bullying. Said shares how those early struggles shaped his mindset, and how his discovery of training and bodybuilding gave him purpose and identity. We also get into the early internet fitness scene, building an online persona, and what it was like to rise to fame during the peak of online forums and viral culture.

Said Sergeyevich Shavershian

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche production.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the
muscle comments and in this episode I speak with Sahit
shaversion also known as chest Brass.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
It was so deeply ingrained in our minds just seeing
these muscle bound men all over TVs. My parents had
the bar us from watching like wrestling all the time,
you know what I mean. And then I walked in
on him, like putting a needle in his bum, and
I'm like, that's what it is. I'm like, you little fucker.
I'm like, come on, man, share some of that secrets.
My own girlfriend looked at me and she's like, well,
almost getting too much. I've been the skinny, small guy

(00:40):
my whole life. So to hear that, even for a
brief moment in my life, I'm fucking happy and he's
passing it lit a fire in me. Like most people
would crumble, but for me, it just li's such a
huge fire in me to train and just to just
become something, you know, all.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right, I fucking I'm trying to get You're so busy, man.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I've just come back from I was in Vegas going
and then I went to Mexico and I'm off to
go to Turkey in a few weeks, like doing a
hair transplant in Turkey, and that's it, bro, Just all
over the place, moving everywhere, joy consist. So yeah, it's good. Bro.
As you get a bit older, it's it gets a
little bit annoying to travel so much, take the long

(01:22):
flights and all that shit. But you know, you do
what you've got to do. Like I'm working on a
few things and projects at the moment. I've got my
documentary coming out as with our stand so looking forward
to that. Lots of our travel for that. Went to
New Zealand to film the pilot episode for that and
get the investors on board. Screen Australia, and yeah, it's
been like three or four years in the process, but

(01:42):
we're like currently filming right now, like as we speak,
like they're filming me and a whole bunch of other people.
So yeah, man, just just juggling that with competing, running
multiple businesses and just traveling and partying a lot. So
still partying, bro, You've still got a few more years
in me. But I'm not not as old. Assume that
I'm getting there, bro, thirty nine, you know, so I've.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Gone to five going up when I go out. You know,
I just tend fifty.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Bro, you don't even look fifty. I thought forty five. No,
I wish my body do it feels like forty?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
What's it like training at fifty? Same true, same shit.
I still still live to heavyweights. I still lift heavyweights.
Mine's have a change, yours hasn't changed it all. I don't.
I won't change it. I won't change it.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Interesting just because of age, I'm going to change it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
So as long as I feel strong and I can
I know I can lift it, I'll lift it.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I think strength is important, especially as you get all,
you're going to maintain strength. Like a lot of people now,
like where are you talking about training? But a lot
of people now like they trained and like they don't
train like conviction. Like a lot of these young guys,
like you see them training now, they don't put much
effort in. They don't they don't push themselves to failure, don't.
It's like it's a different generation, bro.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Like they feel like it's all social media now.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah. Yeah, Like they've got the tripods out and they're
filming the fancy workouts. Like I think my generation, which
is a little bit after yours was probably the last
generation where people took the training like really really seriously,
like we're still looking up to like people like Ronnie Coleman,
Phil Heat Jake Cutler, and now it's like just it's change, bro.
You know, Like I don't even like going to commercial
gyms anymore because like I feed off like then that

(03:09):
you've seen people train hard and passionately. So if I
don't see someone like a gym, then it's like got
that feeling of that aura and like as everyone's around
training hard and grunting and this and that, then I
can't train there, bro, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I usually I usually want train in gyms now because
the fact that won they're all just hanging around the
fucking bench and fucking talking and fucking getting selfies with
each other two And there's no atmosphere in gyms that
I reckon anymore.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's gone, you know, music, the pump, it's it's gone.
The feeling's gone. Miss that, man, I missed that. So
that's why I.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Got my own gym at my fucking house and I
just built it like a gym, and that just went.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, that's that's my next step, bro. It's getting to
the level now where it's just like even if I
venture out to a good gym, it's like everyone just
fucking knows me, and I can't train in peace.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well I go at midnight now, so I.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Go at midnight. Yeah I like training early. Bro.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Oh no, I do early, but I'll go again.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
You're still on the gear at the sage or no,
T I t everything?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh well I don't stop. Bro, no bless Bro. You
haven't lost your hair.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Nah.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
You know you're a lucky man. Bro.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Nah bro. Like, as I said, I haven't changed my routine.
Yeah since I was probably twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah that's good bro. And you know what, man Like,
I always tell this like my younger audience, like training, bro,
It's it's so important bro, Like, it's just such an
important thing for the mind as a man growing up.
You know, you've got two two boys, yea two boys,
so you would probably instill training in them and discipline.
I see the videos of them playing sports and shit, like,
you know, you seem like you're very proud father you
watch watch them do well in sports and train hard.

(04:36):
Like it's so important to teach kids these things, man
Like kids now these days growing up without much of
like like there's no proper male role models out there
for them, you know what I mean to look up to.
So it's like what's left, bro? Like there's these kids
now look at me as like a super hyper masculine,
real male role model. But back in our days, I
was considered more like a metrosexual and like more like

(04:58):
one of the pretty boys, and you wouldn't consider me
like overly mascular. But these kids now look at me
like I'm like some kind of like super hyper skilling figure.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It's like it just makes me laugh. Bro, how much
of times have changed? How different this generation is? And yeah,
I'll talk more about it. But do you ever fucked? Basically?
Do you ever? Because when I'm on the gear, to me,
even today I had a skinny day. I get lots
of skinny days. Bro, I have a skinny day right now.
What do you think I'm unning a jacket? So you
did the same?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, bro, of course, Bro, that shit never leaves us.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
And it just foxed up my head. Sometimes I can't
even go to gym, I.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Know, Bro, that's that's exactly where I'm at right now.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Mate.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Let me tell you when I finished my camp, you
seen the videos. I was looking nuts. I'll be the
first as I was looking fucking insane. And then because
I did three back to back comps, it killed me, brother,
they killed me, like mentally, I was in there. I finished,
I jumped off all the gear. I'm only staying on
just TRT now, just one twenty five MG's a test
a week, just to keep my little beat or up.
And I stopped literally training for about two months, bro,

(05:58):
the first time in my whole life, the first fucking
time my whole life. I'm like, I can't fucking do
it anymore. I just I need a break otherwise I'm
gonna hate training, I'm gonna hate dining, I'm gonna I'm
gonna hate all of it. So I just I stopped
for two months. And it was only like since last week.
It's been my first week back in the gym, so
obviously covered up. I'm like, I'm not fucking shure nothing
to nobody, bro, even in my training videos on my
Instagram and shit, I'll post videos I mean like like

(06:20):
a baggy T shirt and pants and everyone's like, chess, Bro,
what's wrong? Bro? You're okay?

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
I'm like, I'm fine, man, I'm just feeling a little
bit skinny. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
See people say to me, you look fucking great, and
I no, you don't understand.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It because when you at a certain level, you regress
from that level, you're always gonna hold yourself to that standard.
So I see these comp pictures and I'm like, unless
I'm like, look, I don't have to match it completely.
But like, if I'm not at least like ninety five
kilos like lean, then I just feel small, bro, you
know what I mean? So right now, like I'm fucking skinny. Bro,
I'm not taking I'm not taking this off with shit.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
I go, I go from my arm. So if I
know my T shirts are loose, I go, ah fu,
that's just not good. Bro.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah yeah yeah, all my T shirts. I mean, only
people that are like if their whole life will understand
the ship, bro, Like anyone else, Like you could put
us in the public right now, anyone else will see us.
You guys are like, you guys look great, but T
what's like? Not?

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Man? I hate when they say that.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
It pisces me off because they don't know. They don't know,
they don't train, but we have to sometimes. Also, my friend,
we have to step outside of our bodies and realize
that in our world, in the bodybuilding world, like yeah,
like we ain't shit, but in the real world, we're
bigger and leaner than ninety nine percent of people out
there that we come face to face with. So I
guess as I've got an order, I've kind of like

(07:35):
realize that a little bit more. I'm like, Okay, I
can't be so hard on myself. Like I'm walking around
all these people and like everyone's like little. You know,
I might feel small, but like these guys are like
far small than I am. So I tell myself that
to feel better about myself.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
But you know, gate you ever look at someone and go,
he's bigger than me, but you know he's not, well,
he looks better than you need a good question, because
I actually do that.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
I'll be honest with you. I look guys and I'm like,
he's bigger than me. But then I'll think, but I
still look better than him. So I've seen lots of
guys that are bigger than me, but they might not
have that esthetic shape. Yeah, the symmetry, the small waists,
the broad shoulders, the big chest, the white clavicles, the
sweeping legs, you know. So I might look at like
someone and be like, oh yeah, look he's bigger. He
might even be taller, but does he look better like

(08:17):
with his shirt off? And I don't know many people
that I can name, with all due respect that actually
look better than me with like the shirt off. Lean
there's so many bigger guys. Of course, there's this huge
guy's out there, you know, he's a big boy. Mary's
and Kiwis everywhere that are like big big jack guys
in terms of like a physique that's like desirable, but
like women and that men would want to achieve, that's realistic.

(08:41):
I'd put myself up there's like one of the best, bro.
That's that's the truth. But I mean in saying that,
I also want to be bigger bro, Like I want
to be one hundredly now and then when does it stop.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
And you draw the line, I've gone that way. So
I went from one hundred to one hundred and fifty.
So now my goal is one thirty.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
See there you go. So I remember when I first
met you at DC's, I was probably six seventy kilos,
soaking wet, and I thought I was a big all
walking in my world, gym stringer like walking up to
the door and mate, I was tiny, but back then
I was more confident about how my body was then
that I am now sitting at like ninety five kilos. Now,
I feel I'm twenty five kilos heavy. I'm not all
a lot wiser, but I feel I ain't shit compared

(09:19):
to back then when I thought I was the ship.
So it's funny how like age humbles you a little
bit in that and also like experience when you start
doing bodybuilding comps, I'm not sure if you've competed, but
there you go. So as you know, like when you're
competing and you're in that world, it humbles you, bro,
because I was never truly I wouldn't say I was
never truly like a bodybuilder at that age. I was

(09:39):
more like just a party boy who body who liked
to trade. And then over the years the transition was
made more into bodybuilding and the partying went like the
other way. So I kind of done both. So yeah,
it's been interesting. Man.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Alright, let's get it because I want to talk more
about this shit I got talking about this day.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Brother, I bro, having me brother, you know.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
This has been a twelve month fucking.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
I'll be meaning to come.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Man, I'm just I'm just so patient with it.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I was like, man, I'm glad. I must think I'm
like a bitch, just like bailing on a day, like
I'll come this someone this something. But Na, No, the
truth is I've been super super busy and today bro,
like I'm a little bit like under the weather. But
you know what I'm like, I made a promise and
I'm here and nailer and I know the fans are
going to like it too.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Bro, So I appreciate that anyone. But before we get going,
I want to know about this name all right, because
chess bro. Yeah, because like I didn't even know anyone. Yeah,
I didn't even know when I looked it. I oh, Fox,
you changed your name.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah yeah, well I didn't change my name, but everyone
just calls me. People don't even know my real name, bro,
So like you know what I mean, Like it's just funny.
It's either like they just know me as like chesty
chest bro. But the thing is, like I'll tell you
where it started. So asz as everyone knows him, we
all know him. He got the name Ziz because when
we were children, we both had lisps and we couldn't

(11:02):
pronounce each other's names, so instead of calling him Aziz,
I called him Zizz okay, and then as he got older,
it stuck. It kind of just stuck, and he changed
his name on online bodybuilding forums and to people he met,
it just like called himself Aziz and then everyone just
started calling him Zizz and then it worked. Like at
that time, reality was so important on social media, and

(11:23):
having a name and a catchy, catchy phrase or story
to who you are really made a pop. And at
that time, I'm like, fuck, this motherfucker's got like this,
But what have I got? I've got nothing, bro, I
heard I think of something, And I remember being on
the bodybuilding dot com forums. I'm not sure if you've
ever been in the forums, and I remember making a thread.
I was wearing my ed hardy stringer and one of

(11:44):
my caps backwards and like pouting with holding a little
motorol or fucking flip phone, and I labeled a thread,
how does my chest look? Bras? And here's me thinking
I'm going to get like people just saying all these
oh you look good man, you look great, keep going,
keep going, compliments and phrases turned into three hundred pages
of just trolling. They used my phone and their photo
shopped and did like one hundred fucking different photos of me,

(12:05):
like different scenarios. It was pretty fucking funny. Now in hindsight,
I look back and I'm like, this shit's fucking hilarious.
And you know what, Bro, They've got to bring back
bullying because that shit makes men. Bro, that shit makes
men rise up. I think bullying shouldn't be taken away
from something. I think it should be brought back, bro,
because with bullying, it's like it either make or breaks,
you know what I mean. So that thread, it was
three hundred pages of just fucking hate and just trolling

(12:27):
me twenty four cents.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
I didn't even know you and they hate you. Yeah,
just from one photo. To be fair, the photo was
fucking atrocious, bro.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Like I was literally like I don't know my posture
in my stands and I cut this T shirt into
like an ed hardy string. I was like super lowca
and I was super skinny thinking I was like some
big shots. So I get it. It's kind of funny
now looking back at it, and then any thread I
would make afterwards on that bodybuilding forum. They would call me, Oh,
look it's that chessbru guy. And I just sat down
one time and I was like, chess Bro, chess Bro.

(12:55):
I'm like, fuck, kind of has a ring to it,
and here's a funny thing.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Then I changed my name on the forums to chest Bro.
And then over the years, as my physique grew, my
chest actually became my most dominant feature. So it's like
poetic justice was meant to be.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
God wanted me to be this man.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Wow, I didn't yeh yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
So I turned something that was like thrown against me
and I used that and I went with it, and
I just fucking stuck.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Bro. Wow.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, it stuck all these years. Like I'm sure, like
eighty percent of people that I don't count don't even
know my real name. They just know me as chesty
chest bro. Fucking brother. I've heard it all a million
times before. You probably get Johnny Brim's mate, Johnny, that's
you know what I mean. At the start, it'd been
like annoying, but I'm like, now just kind of like
it's kind of funny, to be honest, I have a.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Good giggle about it. I didn't know. I didn't even
know you were Russian.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Oh didn't you? I did not know you were fucking Russian.
Let me let me correct that for you.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
So, I was born in Moscow, Russia. My parents are Kurdish,
some full blooded Kurdish, but I'm Russian Kurdish. So it's
like if I was born in Australia with Lebanese background,
I'll say I'm Australian Lebanese. I'm Russian Kurdish.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
My ethnicity is fully Kursished. But I can speak Russian,
which a lot of people don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah. So when I speak Russian, people like, Bro, you look,
you look Greek or Italian. You don't look Russian.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm like, well, I don't know what to tell you. Man,
Like I'm Russian, dude. So because all the Russians I know,
six foot four, blue eyes. Yeah, So it's like it's
it's it's an interesting one, but it's always a good
conversation start, especially when I was like single and stuff.
You know, I'll just go up to girls like I
can hear them speaking Russian in the clubs, bro back
in trademark dcs all that, and I'll just start speaking

(14:34):
Russian to them and it always worked, Bro, it would
always work. Everyone around the time was either Turkish, Greek, Italian, Lebanese,
and you had me who looked like all of those guys.
But then I'll just start speaking Russian. And that was
always like my my drawer card. Bro. I always had
that like charm about me, which like helped me with
the ladies. It was great. I can't complain, Bro, you
found that mysterious and exotics. I mean, if it works,

(14:57):
it works, right.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, So tell me tell me about
growing up down coming over from where you came from
Russia and Russia why why did you come over? What
was there is?

Speaker 1 (15:06):
So I've mentioned this before in a few podcasts, but
it was the full of the USSR. So Communism had
just collapsed in the USSR and everyone was losing everything,
their homes, their assets and all these things. So my
parents at the time, and also I was really really
sick as a kid. I had asthma, really bad asthma.
And as a young child, I had a doctor come

(15:27):
to my house and nanny who would give me like
a needle every fucking week, once a week, like I
couldn't remember what for, just like for my asthma and
from my airways, like I'd get a needle in the
bum like every day for like two years straight from
the ages like like three to five. And I was
told by the doctors that if I want to get
better and have a chance at a normal life and
to be able to breathe and function normally like without
having to be on like ventil and puffers for my

(15:47):
whole life, I'd have to change my climate. I'd have
to move into a warmer climate. So it was a
very small and a big so it was a long
shot to take, but my parents took the plunge and
we moved to Australia. Funny enough, first place we moved
to was Melbourne, and my parents were like, what the
fuck is this? This is just as cold as Russia,
both not fucking colder. So we stayed there for six

(16:08):
months and then we fucked right off and came and
settled in Sydney. Yeah, and it worked. My asthma, God
willing got cured. No puffers, no ventillance, nothing. Spent all
those years just thrashing my body with cigarettes and just partying,
not just not even like not even being like grateful
for like being healthy. And Yeah, it's it's been completely fine.
I got very lucky, to be honest. So that was

(16:30):
the main reason. And also because yeah, the USSR collapsed
at the time, and my parents are losing assets, homes, money,
because in communist society, you don't own what you own,
the government owns it, you know, so under communism it's
you don't really have much of your own ownership. So
even though my parents were both doctors overseas when we
came here, we came here with nothing. Brother, we came

(16:51):
here like my parents came here with absolutely nothing, had
to get their degrees again, start over from scratch again,
and work hard. You know how it is like immigrant family.
They had to just do everything to provide and you know,
me and my brother didn't see them that much because
they were always working. And I yeah, man, that's basically
why we came here and where we settled in Sydney.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Did you ever go back like that? More family in
the back there?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, so all my family is in Moscow. I went
back maybe some thirty nine. I went back when I
was thirty for the first time to visit all my
relatives and family. So they've never seen you, never seen
me until last time. I almost when I was six
years older, and I went back there as a fully
grown man. So it was good, man, it was nice
to see my whole family. It was just a really
strangely awkward Yeah, yeah, it was. I'm glad you asked.

(17:33):
I was about to say that it was very awkward
because I obviously I grew up with just one sibling,
no cousins, no family, very small, just just it was
just me and my brother Bro. And I'm seeing like
my first cousin, second cousins, aunties, uncles like everyone. And
and for me, like I consider myself Ouzsy, I considered
myself Australian. So over there, they're like literally like brought
up in the villages in Moscow, like in like Kurdish tradition,

(17:56):
so they're like really like village like you know, like
full old school, and the men are kissing each other
on the cheek like three times and doing all this shit.
I just wasn't used to it.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
I'm like, I'm an at heartbro, you know what I mean, Like,
I see this country is like my country. So it
was very hard for me to like kind of just
like converse and speak with them, and they look at
me and they just tell my dad this, this kid's
just he's an Aussie bro. He's not one of us anymore,
you know what I mean, Because it's just such a
different culture, bro, such a different culture, and it was
a little bit awkward, but it was nice, you know

(18:25):
what I mean. Like they showed me a lot of
love and they were very hospitable, and you know, it
was nice to meet my first cousins, more my relatives,
my dad's brothers, sisters for the first time, because I've
never felt that feeling of having a deep and a
big family. I guess in that sense it was nicer.
But yeah, it was definitely awkward, like but on the
positive sense, I came back and my Russian was like

(18:45):
even better then before I left. So I haven't been
back since. But well, I mean, the war's going on
right now, bro in Russian and Ukraine. So my family
lived all close to that. Well, my cousin, my cousin,
actually my first cousin, was in the war and he
got his leg blown off, actually almost blown off completely.
He was hiding under a Russian tank while the Ukrainian

(19:06):
soldiers were basically clearing out and like looking for the
Russian shilt soldiers you hit under a tank because he
had half of his leg blown off. Yeah, and then
he got dismissed through the army and put into recovery.
So he's been in recovery for like nine months. They're
using like stem cells and all this regenerative therapy to
grow back his leg. Luckily they saved his leg. And
this is like my first cousin twenty four years old,

(19:27):
conscripted into the army because of the Russian Ukrainian War.
So Jesus I can beare his life. And then I
look and I'm like, how did I get so lucky
to be in such a privileged country fucking just being yeah, bro,
you know what I mean, Like just clouding around on Instagram,
traveling the world, doing podcasts, having a great time. And
he's my cousin across the world, twenty four years old.
Like on the battlefields are like fucking stepped on a

(19:50):
land mine. Like what the fuck? It's crazy, bro to
think about. Yeah, so parents made the right choice moveing
to you. Yeah, and we can't go back there because
I still have Russian citizenship, so we don't know. If
I go back there, I might get conscripted I'm still young.
We don't know. So in the army, yeah, we don't know. Yeah,
I think they they list shopping to me like I'm
not sure what the ages, but it's just not worth

(20:10):
taking the risk. That's that's the truth, you know what
I mean. So I've got the Russian citizenship and the
obviously the Australians citizenship. So that's life, bro you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, So tell me about growing up then, like school
and all like that. It was half f you coming
over making friends.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
It was really hard broke because I couldn't speak a
word of English and I got heavily bullied for it.
When I was in private school. I remember around that
time like there was a lot of like tension towards
like Aussie's and wogs and this and that, and then
like walk boy insults with like throwing around this and that.
That was the era that I was like growing up in.
So I came to stray when I was like six
or seven, and I distinct remember my man, like there
was a time where I couldn't even ask like how

(20:47):
to go to the toilet in English. I just spoke
in Russian. And I remember all the kids laughed at
me because I spent in Russian. I said, where's the toilet?
And I remember all the seven year old kids laughing
at I mean, I was just like so distraught. I
ended up running out of the fucking classroom, running all
the way home, which is like twenty minutes, just to
use the toilet. And then like my parents were at work,
and Principle called my parents and the police got involved

(21:07):
because they thought I just like had run away, but
really I just needed to take a shit.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
How would you surviving a school then if you can't
forking talk English?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Like, how did that? I honestly can't fucking remember. But
I picked it up very quickly because I'll still at
that age six or seven. I'll still at that age
where you can learn very very very quickly. And as
you can tell, like I didn't develop develop an accent
like it feels like any longer. If I came to
like Australia, like being like say like nine or ten,
I'll probably have like a Russian accent right now. But
I was just at the right age to not have

(21:34):
developed an accent at all and just just have been
able to pick it up like really really quickly. I
picked it up within like a year I was just
I don't know. Was he the same for your brother too?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
There? Was he the same?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Like he was a little bit younger. He was three
years old, so he and I was six, and he
found it difficult in like preschool, same thing but in preschool.
But by the time he was in kindergarten he could
already speak English, and I was speaking English probably when
I was in around I don't know, like three, you
two whatever age that is seven years older, years old.

(22:06):
But yeah, I picked it up very quickly, and then
all that bullying went away. And then after that I
was actually really hot headed kid up until I went
to high school. Then I became a quiet kid again,
and then after high school I became y. It's just
been a joke.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Because I did read something on the probably that he
was he did get bullied at quite.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, heavily bullied, bro. Yeah yeah, so it
happened to both of us. For him, it was all
for me as well as our stature.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
So we were really really skinny in high school and
a lot of the reason we got into bodybuilding is
we'd watch WCW WWE Rest in Peace, Whole Kogan, my
man very very sad. So we looked up to these
guys bro, like you know Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Sting whole, Yeah,
Ultimate Warrior. Bro. We loved it, and we watched movies
like Jean Claude Van Dam sliced the look Don't hit Back, Bro.

(22:54):
We watched it all, and then you know, it was
in our mind. It was so deeply ingrained in our minds,
just seeing these fucking muscle bound men all over TVs
and fucking wrestling and this and that. It was so
much in My parents had the bar us from watching
like wrestling all the time, you know what I mean.
And when you take something away from a kid, as
you know, all they want to do is do that
said thing that's been taken away from there, So they're
on the slide exactly, which is what we did, bro,

(23:17):
you know what I mean. And then we finished high
school and then all I wanted to do, I remember,
is just get fucking jacked. That's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to start bodybuilding. So I started training
at around eighteen years of age, as was still around fifteen.
He was like still fucking playing video games. So you
were doing it first before him, Yes, so he got
inspired through me. So I started bodybuilding eighteen, and then
he would just see the changes in my body. And

(23:38):
then when I was twenty one, I basically just like
begged him and forced him to come to the gym.
I'm like, come on, man, just coming to the gym
with me, Like you're gonna love this. And he was
getting very curious watching my changes. And then yeah, he
ended up coming in the end and then finissing the game, brother,
and then doing it a hundred times better than I
ever could have done it, man, And it was just
incredible to have that journey with him at that time

(23:59):
at such a young age. The only thing I regret
now is I wish he was around because now if
we had a bodybuilding show, would love to be on
stage with him, man, you know what I mean, It
would have been amazing. I always think about how cool
it would have been. But he progressed so fucking quick
for such a young dude, and he did so well.
I genuinely believe he was like light years ahead of
his time in terms of his mindset and just the

(24:20):
way he thought of for things, you know, on the
outside exterior. To those who'd see him, they just see like,
you know this tall fucking jack pretty boy. But on
the inside, bro, he was a really quirky, really goofy,
intellectual kid and that's a side that many people haven't
seen of him. So that will be obviously discussed and
showing detail the documentary coming up.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
So going back before we talk about your brother, yep,
I just want to like, so, now I know that
you were the first one to actually lift the weights,
lift the weights and motivate him to do he for sure,
So who pushed you to get on the gear? How
did you get to find out about the year?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
This is a funny one. So it's like a fucking
rigmarole this one. So I started the gym, and then
three years on as joined through my influence, and then
he started getting bigger than me, and I didn't know why.
I thought, maybe this this cunt is just probably just
training harder than me. I don't know what's happening. And
then I literally walked in one day and just saw
him like jabbing gear, and I'm like, I was so naive,

(25:16):
and I was so young. I was like twenty two
and it was eighteen. I was I was twenty one
and he was eighteen I'm like, I'm like, is that
steroids And he's like yeah. I'm like I'm like, oh,
so that's why you're getting bigg And I remember he
will do this fuck. He'd play this little game with
me where he'd like, would weigh ourselves once a week
to see how heavy we're getting, and little fucker was
gaining in a killer every week. He went from eighty
to like eighty six, and I was just staying around

(25:37):
like seventy five, and I was just like, how the
fuck are you putting on a kill? And even what's happening.
I was so I wasso like flabby gas. I didn't
know what the hell was going on. And then I
walked in on him like having a needle, putting a
needle in his bum, and I'm like, oh shit, I'm
like that's what it is. I'm like, you little fucker.
I'm like, you've been doing this behind my back. I'm like,
come on, man, share some of that secret. Gelling it
to himself. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he was keeping it

(25:58):
all to himself. He was a little bit it was
a little bit funny like that, so people would think
it's the other way around it. It was me that influencer. Yeah,
I influenced it. And then he wants me to do
his sis, you know what I mean. So I'm like,
I'm like Mark. It's like more like best mates, you know.
It's like monkey see monkey do. He'd copy me, I'd
copy him. I'd copy him, He'd copy me, and and

(26:18):
that's why it makes me laugh. Like I remember, a
lot of the flak I copped after his passing was
that I'm trying to copy him, and I'm just like, motherfucker,
what siblings don't copy each other? What are you talking about?
Of course I copy him, of course he copies me.
We are one in the same brother. We are one
and the same when we always have been. And I
think we're time people are seeing that more and more.
And that's where the respect for me came more over

(26:39):
the time that like a thissguy's his own man, he
does his own shit. Yeah, because you can only pretend
to be someone for so long, you know. But we
are very very similar but also very different in many respects.
So I think people picked up on that overtime, and
that's like when the respect came. So I had my
own journey in building that respect and building my own
legsy because you know, his legacy was so strong. But

(26:59):
I had to obviously go through my own struggle and
do my own things. So that was a journey in
itself and that was quite enjoy Actually wouldn't change it
for the world because it helped me to really understand
who I was and just develop as a man. And
I think every man needs to go through their own
struggle before truly becoming a man. So I don't regret anything.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
It was a really, really good time. So we just
bounced off each other in terms of like enabling disabling,
positive things, negative things. We just yeah, we did it all, bro. Yeah,
we both too naughty mascals.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Would you ever when you took the gear? Yep, tell
people you're on it, because I know I used to
get annoyed when I used to know people were on
the gear and they go, I'm not on it. Oh.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
We were super honest, and that's what people know us for.
People know that we were very very honest about it,
and we will just tell people straight up, especially as Is.
He would just post it on forums. He's like, oh,
I'm doing trend two hundred milligrams a week test five
hundred from a pro bladder, and he was like the
first of his kind at that age, was just so
open and honest about it, when Sarah's was such a taboo,

(28:01):
Like I love hearing that from you, brother, Like that's
really nice to hear because a lot of people at
that time it was such a taboo topic, you know
what I mean. But with us, he just he didn't
give a fucking just to just yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
I would never lie to anyone me if anyone as yeah, yeah, same, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean my body didn't show much for it at
the time, like I was pumping it. I was still small,
but I still say, but still say I'm on it,
you know what I mean, And now like yeah, I'm
just I still tell people. I just don't see the
point in hiding high. That's so fucking obvious, Like you
don't have to be a big dude for people to
like see steroids. If you know your bodybuilding, you can

(28:35):
see the muscle receptors and shoulders, traps and delts and chests,
and you just you know what to look for. You
can see the telltale signs. So anyone that lies about it,
it's just kind of pathetic, you know me, because I
used to be get called you're a cheat.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
You're a cheat. You why can't you do it?

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I didn't understand that, bro, I didn't. I didn't get
the whole cheat this cheat that. Brother, I'm not playing football,
I'm not fucking I'm not in varsity leagues and the
top end of fucking playing like state football or soccer.
How am I a cheat? Like bodybuilding is a steroids sport.
Everyone's on steroids. So if I'm a cheat, everyone's a cheat.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
DH. But I used to tell around and saying, listen,
you've got your fucking female you like to get their botox.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
I like to get more steroids. Yeah, simple as that. Brother.
You couldn't have said it any better than me. And
the way I said It's like, it doesn't matter how
you got the Lamborghini.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
At the end of the day, you still have the
fucking Lamborghini, right, Like, whether you've got it like legitimately
or you fucking didn't, Like, you still got the fucking
color that people want. Yeah, you know what I mean.
And that's what I try to say with bodybelling. I'm like,
all right, whether you're on stars and the off strows
doesn't undermine the fact that you've got a fucking insane
rig Yeah, and that's all that matters the end of
the day. People just throw the word steroids or I'm
mostly lazy people of fat people or jealous people. Yeah, exactly,

(29:37):
because they can't achieve it, bro, with all without steroids.
Give them a fucking ten year course of the best
steroids in the world, they still wouldn't look half as
good as your you know what I mean. And that's
the truth, bro. So they they throw these blanket statements
to mask the reality of the situation, which is that
they can't have the courage and the balls to fucking
train hard and be dedicated and die and do it themselves.
So yeah, of course it's an easy thing to just

(29:59):
throw back at someone and then and then have that
as your safety, that to feel better about yourself. But really, bro,
if someone says I'm a steroids now, like I take
it as a compliment, and I'm like, well, what fuck
I better look like I'm on steroids. I'm doing something
fucking wrong obviously, you know. So how did it feel
when you talk it like for the first time? Amazing,
fucking I still remember like it was yesterday, Like nothing's changed,

(30:20):
But I felt like fucking Superman.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
But did it make use? When I remember when I
took it and I was seeing the changes, it just
makes you want to work out more and push your
body and push yourself more.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
What he could achieve, just it motivated me more bro
With a lot of people that do sterois incorrectly, it
makes them lazier. For me, it did the exact opposite.
It made me more hungry. I'm like, wow, this is
what this is what the human body is capable of.
I'm like, imagine if I just keep doing this for
another five years, Or imagine if I get a coach,
or I clean up my diet, or I just take

(30:49):
my shit seriously, and I just stopped fucking partying and
go to DCMS, Imagine what I can actually end up
doing with my physique, you know, Like I actually thought that,
and I was well on my way until obviously tragedy
hit me, and then and then I went in a
world wood of just drugs and partying, and then after
I heal from that, then I went back to bodybuilding.
So when I saw the changes in my body, it
motivated me to obviously.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Keep using What was the first one you started with?
It was test prope. Yeah, it was test prope.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
I don't know why I should have just started with anything,
because the corks was a really good way of scaring
someone off for the first time, let me tell you.
And I remember sitting there brother in my car with
a mate because I couldn't do it myself, like within
one hour pep talk before getting it, honestly, So I
had a needle phobia, bro, I had a proper needle
phobia before getting like the jab And back then we

(31:37):
didn't know that you can use like the small insulin
needles for subcutaneous injections, so we're using the big blue
and green heads. It was horrific, like unnecessarily and I'm
just like, fuck, I'm I all right here. We got
have to like add myself up, bite onto fucking pillow
and just just get ready to have the shot. You know.
It was a process, a process, and now it's at
a level now where like I fucking like, I get

(32:02):
excited for my job, so I do my eyes closed, bro,
just like, but my missus sees me jabbing all the time.
She's like, you're sick, Like for my last for my
last comprep, I'm doing like el carnatine and fucking tran
and this and that, and I'm jabbing and I'm like
leaving the needles hanging off my shoulder. I'm like, check
this out, just being a clown, you know. And she's like, babe,
like you're sick, man, like you're honestly sick for me,

(32:22):
and I just I forget back to when I thought,
like my fuck, Like like fifteen years ago, I was
fucking petrified of the shit. But yeah, man, now it's
it's no big deal.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Now, Obviously at an older age, I cycle. I don't
cycle on and off. Rather, let me correct that I
will go through periods of blasting and cruising. So right
now I'm going to cruise just doing the TRT, and
after I come back from Turkey, I'm gonna start bulking again.
I want to get to about one oh five. I'm
sitting roughly right now, I'm around ninety two ninety three.

(32:53):
I want to clean bulk to about one oh five,
and then I want to start slipping back down and
be like high eighties, low nineties for my next comp
with the ip B, which will be end of next year.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
So I want to give myself time. I don't want
to just go and do end of this year early
next year.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Because I did really good for my first time in
IPB bro so before I fib I'm not sure if
you know, I got my WBFF pro card and then
I was like, well that was easy. I want to
try Iphaba and yeah, I've got first place in Novice
recently second in the opens and then in nationals in
the whole country. I came forth, so I thought to myself,
you know what, I'm just going to take a year

(33:29):
to come back even fucking bigger and then like win
it all. I mean, in my eyes, I still thought
I should have won. I thought it looked. I think
we spoke about it when when the DM. Yeah, like
and I'm always going to think that, because if you
don't think that about yourself, then you don't think much
of yourself, do you. You know what I mean? In
my eyes, I'm like, well, I'm bigger, I'm leaner, but
you know what I mean. In hindsight, looking at the

(33:50):
guy who won, he was, yeah, he was a little
bit more conditioned than I am, a little bit more crisp.
But I look at it from a different perspective. I've
looked at it from like who would do better in
a pro show? And obviously it's going to be the
bigger guy, you know what I mean, because they're a lot.
They're bigger guys in the IPB pro leagues, in actual
pro shows, then the amateur shows. So that's the way
I was looking at it. But I know what to
do for my next comp. I'm going to come in

(34:12):
even bigger and even leaner, and then you know, the
judges aren't left with much of a decision. You know,
when you take the decision out of the judges hands
and you come in with the best package, that's when
you literally can say you've done all the work, all
the hard work, and then just give it your best, bro.
So that's my plan.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
How are you with the prepping?

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Does it like?

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Because I remember when I was preppering, it took about
five ten years off me. Here like at the end
of it, I just I felt drained. Yeah, well this
is just like people don't realize how hard it is
to yeah weeks, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
It's not like shredding for stereo, mate, this is like
the real fucking thing, you know. Yeah, Like I did
three back to back comps and this is why now
I had to take two or three months of training.
First time in my life. I've never gone my whole
life without a week without training. This is the first
time in my life I've actually done that. So yeah,
and it was hard, bro. It was hard on my relationship.

(35:05):
I was hard on my family. It was hard on me.
It was fucking hard.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So for you had about bigger goals than me, like
when I did it, because I was a novice for
doing it. But I remember the last seven weeks of
prepping for my colm, I was smelling ice cream, bro
from the freezer. How was that fucked up?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Well? The good thing now, my bro is I have
this thing called the Dinger Creamer. You can make low
calorie ice cream. We're just water and a scooba protein.
We're just water and a Scoopa protein. There's so many tricks. Now.
We have things called retroglue tide, which is like Ozambique
but without the muscle wastage. Not that I've used it,
if anyone's wondering, might on my next prep did on

(35:43):
my last I really fucking suffered. But there's tricks to do. Now.
You know, there's ice cream machines now like that they
can make. I've got a homemade ice cream machine. You
put water in there, I'll put a Scooper protein. I'll
put this ingredient called xanthem gum which stick ins the
water and the protein mix ice cream. You let it
freeze for twenty four hours and you put it through
ice cream, and you get a pint of ice cream, mate,
and it's like one hundred and fifty calories, the same

(36:03):
calories as a protein shape, and it just fills you
up and you could just eat on that all day.
So there's tricks now you can do that takes the
cravings and that hunger away, but it still doesn't take
away the fact that it's fucking hard. It's still fucking
hard to do. It's not it's not easy. And then
saying that, yeah, I suffered a lot, bro and it
took a lot of time. Every every compass and every

(36:24):
prep has been challenging in their own way. And every
time I come out of it and I have to
like let loose, like really hard, and then I'm able
to focus again. Like when I won my WFF Pro
card again, I went to Bali and I went to Mexico.
I partied my fucking ass off, and then I partied
so hard. I'm like, all right, I'm fucking over this, mate,
and I want to go back to bodybuildings. So I
have to do that personally. I can't say the same
for everyone else, but I have to do that because

(36:46):
I've been so restricted when I prep that I miss birthdays,
family events, barbecues, functions, weddings, this that, and I just
feel like a fucking like one of those autistic bodybuilders
just eating from the top away contained. I'm just like,
bro like that, I remember, you know what I mean,
And it's just like deep down like I remember what
I used to be like when I was younger, like
enjoying the body building for what it was and just
partying and then and then I have to release that

(37:09):
side of me to be able to get the hunger
to do it again, because I can't just go back
to back shows. That's why I look at these competitors,
these young guns like Seabuming, all these guys on the
scene now that they can do it like ten years
straight back to back comps without having proper like a
party time and a party period, just coming off and
enjoying their life like properly enjoying their life, not just
eating whatever food you want, like like properly just like

(37:31):
letting loose, you know what I mean? Or for all
I know, they probably might be who knows, But I
feel like that's important to be able to then go
and prep because, as you know, it fucks your bro mentally.
It drains the life out of your Yeah, it takes
years off your life. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Have you had any major injuries, like from doing bodybuilding
and weights and all like that.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
I mean, you've been look yoursel far uh funny enough,
I haven't had any injuries from bodybuilding. I've had a
Grade one tear in my shoulder, yeah, and that was
just from wrestling. I was just wrestling with a mate
when I was drunk, and yeah, just to fucking tear
on my shoulder. But I was lucky because that's just
a Grade one and held on his own physio. But

(38:10):
you know, I was just talking to my missus before
we got into here. She tore her acl when we
went on our skiing trip in Threadburrow, like the whole
a cl like completely off the bone, and I'm just
like thinking, fuck, so happy was you not me? Because
that would be my body Billy can be finished. She's like,
I'm happy as me too, you know. But it's such
a serious injury. Bro. I've got her on like peptides

(38:32):
and doing hyperbaric oxygen, chamber therapy, red light therapy, physiotherapy, everything, bro,
And like now we're just prepping her up to get
surgery and making sure her knee is strong and stabilized.
So God willing, God bless. I haven't got any injuries
like that. I've just had the one grade one tear
in my shoulder and that's it, Bro, What about yourself? Me?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
I would just slight tolet's hair in the bicep grade one,
grade two, grade three, grade two. Then now I got
away with it by taking steroids to mendy.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Oh nice peptides. Just steroids. You gotta get on the
good stuff for the peptis. Pep pies are the way
with a few.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I used to take peptides, but then I fucking I
don't know, I just it doesn't agree with me. I
just didn't like them. I just fucking yeah, I didn't
didn't didn't like it.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Didn't like them or I didn't feel them. I just
didn't feel them. I didn't think it was doing anything
for me. Yeah, it can be like that. I understand
that mindset. It's it's one of those things where it's
not like the major part of like getting the healing,
like i'd say it's like twenty percent. And then if
you're doing steroids and physiotherapy and you know, all this
other recovery stuff, you don't notice that the peptides are

(39:35):
doing much work. But it's like every little thing is
making a difference in the recovery. That's the best way
of describing it, you know what I mean. So like
the physiotherapy is making most of the difference. Time is
obviously the second biggest factor. Food, rest recovery, and then
the little yeah, masking the pain works. Masking the pain

(39:55):
works too, I was doing. And then you have your
little things like peptides is just all these little additional
things redlight and all these things that help. But I mean,
if you talk about in terms of bank for buck,
then yeah, sit gets expensive, bro, like her physiotherapy now
and peptides and this and that it's costing so much, bro,
and the surgery. Fuck, it's expensive. So I just you know,
I've come to an age now. I train smart. I

(40:17):
always allow my muscles to warm up. If I'm coming
in to the gym and I'm feeling shitty on that
fucking day, I ain't gonna try to be a fucking
hero and just try to do something that like I
can normally do when I'm like on a full nights
of sleep and well fared and like you know, properly
progressed up to a level where I can lift a
certain weight and do that. I'll just take it easy.
So I listened to my body a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Now that's my yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, Because when you're younger, as you know, you're just
going there with like such an ego and you can
lift the way it's sure you can, but there's there's
gonna be that one time where you might have gone
out on a bender, or had the full eight to
ten hours of sleep, or maybe might have skipped a meal,
you might be slowly under the weather, and then you
come in and you try to do what you do
when you're normally at one hundred percent, and then that's
when you get a tweak. It's when you get a tear,

(40:59):
It's when you get a just location, It's when anything
can happen.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Bro, how did you get the bisy to her I
left too much for a bicycle kill. I was doing
on the bench, so I thought, I can do this.
I've done it before, like the Calim von Mogat thing. Oh,
like the oh ship man. So then I was going
and I go lifting, and I just kept went, kept
on and kept on for it and that's all right,
it's just a twitch. And then I went and I
kept and then it went and I had to drop.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I just dropped it and I could kick damn man.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
So then I may have been what I am. I
rested it. I'd done some phyzy on it took some steroids,
but then it was still there. And what I did
was work around it. Ill work around it by taking painkillers. Yeah,
so I so I could still train because I didn't
want you kept training. I kept training with it on.
Like how soon after the injury, probably six weeks. I
kept taking painkillers and paint us too. But so he

(41:44):
took six weeks off great too. It's it's just it
would have it would have hurt, especially if you kept
lifting her bit.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah. Speaking of which, when I'm back from Turkey, WI
should get a training session. Bro. Let me just build
up my strength. We'll have a session. Bro, We'll have
a session. Man.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
You told me before that you know your brother, you
would have liked to have been on stage with you, bro.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Did he ever compete?

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Nah, he never competed and he never had ambitions for competing.
But you know, it's nice to think and just imagine it,
you know. So it was more to just do the influencer,
and his trajectory was different to mine. He just obviously
loved the social media and the influencing and yeah, you know,
he was already like doing little cameo roles in Underbelly
and things like that. Like he was already like and

(42:30):
doing National road Trip and all these little side projects.
There's no doubt about it. He would have been like
in in cinema and film. I don't think he would
have taken the full bodybuilding route and competed and do
like what I'm doing. I think he would have just
been like an influencer, like slash like celebrity and just
like a big name. I don't see him. It feels
around bodybuilding to like the levels that like I have

(42:52):
and that doing all the comps. I just like, it's
hard to imagine, but it's nice to imagine at the
same time, you know, like I always think to myself,
like it would have been cool to compete alongside him,
but yeah, his trajectory was going somewhere completely different. And
then I mean he's passing it little fire in me,
like most people would crumble, but for me, it little
fire in me, you know, with such a heavy legacy

(43:13):
on my shoulders and such big shoes to feel, I'm like,
fuck it just it's such a huge fire in me
to train and just to just become something, you know,
and I owe all my physique and my gains and
my success, I owe it all to him. You know.
He was the fire and the light behind my life
to push me forward, bro, you know, like most people
would crumble and just disappearing with a way. I used

(43:33):
it as strength.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
So it's funny again in saying that, because I think
to myself, if he was around, brother, I might not
even have become a bodybuilder or competed. To be honest,
I think it's pushed you more of course, Yeah, one
hundred because that was my last memory of him, you know,
captured in time forever, him being young just into training
and bodybuilding, and that stuck with me. Since like you

(43:56):
know what I mean, and I just had kept that up,
who knows where he would have been. You know, we
did what one another would do, Like if he's done something,
I'll do it. If I'm doing something, he'll do.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
You have the best physicust back then now, back then
him for sure, Yeah, back back then without a doubt
when you got on the gear at the same time
as he was way ahead of me, bro way ahead
of me. Yeah, back then, my physique was way behind he's.
He had the much better physique, the bigger physique, the
leaner physique. Obviously, if I was compare him at his

(44:28):
peak then and me and my peak now, I would
clean him up. But obviously I've had fifteen fucking years
to do so you would hope that I would be
a lot bigger, leaner.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
But in terms of at that time, yeah, definitely him.
In terms of appeal, like me at my peak now
on him and he speak, I still think him. I
think people need to get out of the mindset of
like the bigger the better, like when you're lean and chiseled,
like that's just like more preferable by the whole world,
like there's been Sometimes I'm like so jacked up and

(44:58):
so big before calm. My own girlfriend looked at me
and she's like, WHOA, Like it's almost getting too much,
and that makes me fucking happy. I'm like, hell, yeah,
that's what I want to hear. Like, I want to
hear that. I've been the skinny, small guy my whole life.
So to hear that, even for a brief moment in
my life, I'm fucking happy, you know what I mean,
Even to hear it from big boys around me, Like
I've got bigger boys you know Who's like, Bro, you

(45:19):
actually look fucking good. I'm like, it makes you feel good.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Bro, I actually used to think that I look better
at two days three days after my comp.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, you will, normally people do.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
And I just why kind of look like this fucking
three days ago? Oh?

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Man, wouldn't that be during the rebound? The first two
weeks after comp, all I'm doing. Brother is taking videos
and everything, and I'm just like, and then I think
to myself, I'm like, bro, I thought, you look back
and at that time, you know you look good, but
you don't feel that you look good. And then now
I look back to it, I'm like, man, I'm like,

(45:51):
that was me, I'm like, what the fuck and it
blows your mind. But yeah, I don't like how I
look on stage, bro, you don't, I don't. I like
how I look about a week after correct, when I'm
about five six kilos heavier with water, yes, and just
a lot fuller stage. I think I was around eighty
five kilos, like six ppent body fat. Yeah, I liked
how I looked three days later, when I was like

(46:11):
about eighty nine ninety kilos, just still around six percent
body fat, but just with that intracellular fluid between the muscles,
and I just had that real full and big feeling.
I'm like, brother, I was like fucking like pretty big
at that time, man like Eve, even like I'd go
up to like bigger guys with one hundred killos and
I'd neck and neck would look very similar because of
the super compensation with the glycogen and the pump. It

(46:32):
just they had looked insane. Bro, It's just amazing bodybuilding broads.
So it's so interesting when you're like so deep into it,
how much the human body can transform during prep. So
that's my favorite look, bro. Normally, like about a week
after comp and I hate how I look about four
weeks before a comp, I just feel like a string beam.
I hate it up until the car up. I don't
want to look at myself. But at that time it's

(46:53):
like when the coaches stepping in, it's like, no, I
make you look good, like, take more videos, take more photos,
and you always regret it afterwards, You're like, fuck, why
did't I take more videos? Because you feel like shit? Yeah, yeah,
go figure.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Let's talk about before we get into hard, more about
you bodybuilding all like that. We'll go back to a
bit about when your teens and you get any trouble,
when you want any teas or you're a good boy.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
I was a good boy.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
You're a good boy.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I was always a good boy. I don't know why
people think I look like the looks don't match the personality,
but I'm telling you I was a very good boy.
I went to a Catholic school, private Catholic school, did
really well in my grades, went to university, got a
double degree in marketing and logistics. Was working office jobs?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
What did you want to be when you were on
the like growing up? I had no idea. I mean
I had no idea. I don't think anyone really has
an idea. I just wanted to be a soccer player,
that's all I wanted to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, I think you're doing great now, you know what
I mean. I think your life has been very interesting.
In my friend, I'm going to start my own podcast
in like a year's time actually, and you're going to
be one of my first guys. Brother, because I've got
a lot of questions to ask you, let me let
me let me tell me that much. Fam this is
about me, I guess. So, yeah, Bro, I was always
a good kid in high school. I was a good kid,

(48:05):
a quiet kid. I was a bit of a gamer,
a bit of a nerd, but not the conventional type
of nerd where you're just like ostracized and everyone because
I was very I was very liked. I was like
a very cool, quirky kind of nerd.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
People like you looked like, yeah, a cool but nerdy kids.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Correct correct? Yeah, yeah, so we were nerds and we
never try to be anyone weren't. I was out there
trying to act like I'm a hardcut or I'm a
gang stuff nothing like that. I owned who I was
and I still do, like I'm just a goofy fucking
sit cut brother. It's all I am, Bro. I've never changed,
never changed from that age. So now just any difference
now is I'm just got a bit more muscle, I
mean a little bit more wisdom, but same ship, bro.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
And I remember when you used to come to DCS
and your crew used to come, all your boys used
to come. He's all had this unique hairstyle. Yeah, and
it was just like there's still remnants of you know,
to the stage, a bit of more line and just
had this fucking hairstyle that no one else had.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
And it was just like, what's going on with these boys?
Are they a boy band?

Speaker 2 (48:59):
What's going on? You know?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
What they call us back then? One injection brother, One inject,
one direction. But yeah, I remember those days at the
door man and yeah, we'd literally come in strings thinking
were the top ship, bro, and it was so small
and so lean. But fuck the confidence on us back then.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, it's just like that.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
It's a young dick energy, bro. You kill that confidence
with one statement. You just look at us and like
you think you're big now you and we'll be like, yeah,
we're not bad. It's like, what's with the Goldsom single?
I don't know, just thinking that makes us look fucking jacked,
and you're like, get in. It was like it was
mostly yes, I think you liked us boys, you know,
because we always got in.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Your crews are right, and they were respectful, that's what.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
There was a few boys in the crew that caused
trouble me. And this is with the good boys.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
So well, the first time I met your brother, I
remember he was waiting in the line with some chie
of course he wanted and he stood out and he
had a single it on and his small short shorts.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
And we just had a boat cruise, all right. So
he's gone from the boat cruise and he's standing there
and everyone's looking at me like you're not letting them in?
Are you? Kneel? I'm just going I like this kid,
and I'm looking at him going and I'm thinking, funk,
he's got some balls to come in this single and
it's fine. And I remember, I mean, the guy looked great.
He can only could pull off short shorts and he's

(50:17):
got this hairstyle going, and he's got this single it
and he's tand as fucking and I'm looking at him
and he's walking towards me. But the thing was about him.
He was placid and he just shy pairs.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
People didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I'm glad you're saying that was so he wasn't walking
up with confidence. He actually didn't think he'd get in,
and his said was down. And then we were used
to like getting rejected from some clubs, you know what
I mean. So when he walked and I'm looking at
him and I asked for his ID, and he gives
me the idea, doesn't look me in the eye, and
I'm going The only thing I said to him was
the are you doing these shorts? Bro? Not about the

(50:54):
other body. I'm just going, what the fucks to go
at these shorts? And he looks at me and he
gives me a smoke, and I said, bro, the only
way you're getting in is if you've got bigger arms
than me. What did he say to you? And then
everyone says you've got a flex on the door, And
I said, bro, do you want to? And he just
goes and he kind of shy, he was just laughing.
He wouldn't say anything. And I said, bro, I'll get

(51:15):
them out if you want me to, and then he
and then he goes, and then I was like, get
up there, Bro, go for it. Just don't take your
single it off. He still would, still would, he still would.
But that's the first time I ever brother. Yeah. Man.
After that, it was just racing him a lot of
times in regular. Yeah, after that was just regular. It
was just yeah, it was me and him and a
few of the crew, all the boys back then. We're

(51:36):
all very respectful, especially to our elders. It's just the
way we all like race, you know, like always to
show respect to all the boys all the time. And
uh yeah, we never caused the name you used to
call your group the Aesthetics Crats correct back then that
how did you get that name?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Was bro? I don't know. I didn't fucking know, Bro,
Like I think it was given it to us.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Hey, like all our mates just went to the gym
and we all had funky hair festivals and ship like that.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
It was just a ship back then. And and then
and then people just like, oh, it's the Aesthetics Crew
and then like the same thing that people gave us
a name, and we just we just rolled with it, Bro.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
And yeah, there was the days for you because I
remember you, guys, I said to you, the best best
best days of life.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, you did have some idiots in your group, but
then we dealt with them.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah, And a lot of the times we would Me
and As would be obviously because they were in our crew,
would be associated with them and we would get either
rejected or we'd find ourselves in trouble and fights because
of the people in our crew that were troublemakers basically,
but me and As were the ones staying out of
the fights. Like our crew didn't want us in the fights,
so like you boys are just pretty boys, like you

(52:38):
boys don't even be fighting, stay out of the fights,
like this is like this isn't for you guys. They knew, man,
we weren't fighters, man, you know, so they kept us
out of that bullshit. But we saw it all go
down like with our crew and the trouble and back
and forth.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, it was wild.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Even after as his death, there was like fucking crew fights,
like with our crew and other crews. I remember going
to festivals and there was like other crews like after
As died, Like I remember going out to events and
stuff and there were other crews are boys saying what
are you doing, like going out like your brother just died,
you should be at home morning, and then I'd get
so mad. I'm like, how do you fucking tell me
how to mourn?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Like he'd want me to be doing this because this
is what we did together. Have you thought to yourself,
maybe this is what makes me feel close to him,
Like a piece of your motherfucker, like your piece of shit?
Do you understand, like what I've been through, You've got
no idea? And then like my boys will see me
get rather up. And then there was just literally like
there was a period of like one year straight where
my crew, like ten of us would meet up with
the boys of their crew, ten of them literally on

(53:33):
the weekend just just fucking brawl to the point where
it just went on for a year until the point
where they just we all became mates because it's just
like we can't just keep fucking fighting each other. And
then we all just gave up, or just half of
them became mates.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
It was really full on, bro, like real like real
bad fights, and yeah, fucking went crazy because a lot
of these guys will start talking shit about as like, oh,
he was a dickhead, like he deserved to die. It
was a cocky bastard. And then my mates would lose
their fucking mind and it was just full out brawls
at festivals and events every time we'd see their crew
and our crew had gone. And a few times He's

(54:05):
kids would get like fucking bikes involved, and all these
old guys got that much. Yeah, bro, it's bad. It's
so over stupid shit. I remember actually being in an
event that stereosonic and these I can't remember who they were,
but these older guys, I was like twenty five, they
would have been like in their late thirties. They basically
neutralized the situation between my boys and these boys who
brought these fucking heavies with them. And then I saw

(54:27):
these heavies in the toilet. I was like fucking standing
there taking a piss, and I'm like looking at them,
and they're the ones who were with the other with
other crew that like kind of neutralize the situation because
they realized what had happened. We told them. I just
I went up to him. I'm like, I'm gonna get
my head kicked in, and I just went up to
him like, listen, boys, like this is all because of me.
I'm angry because these motherfuckers disrespected my brother. Imagine one

(54:48):
off your brothers died and guys are just laughing and
towarding him, saying he deserved to die because this is
this how do you guys feel? And they literally looked
at me in the eye and they're just like you
know what, Bro, like you do you and they just
don't worry about it. And then he just basically turned
to all the boys and guys just let it go
because leave these guys alone, you know what I mean,
because they were just like basically antagonizing my group. But
my group wouldn't stand down. There will always fight. Well

(55:08):
from the west bro Mount drew it black Town, like
these guys would fight, Bro fight, fight, fight, And Me
and As weren't fighters, so I think they associated me
and As to be all about crew like all like
soft and like softly spoken and nice guys. But ninety
percent of our crew wasn't. It was just me and
as well the soft ones. Everyone else was like proper nutters,

(55:28):
bro proper proper proper nutterers. Like I'm talking like, I'll
give you a call Saturday. We're meeting this spot just
one on one will fight and then the boys will
come back show photos of their bloodied faces all the
other guy's face, and then they'd go in get fucking
black eyes, broken jaws, this and that, and then a
month later that message let's go again, just for no reason,
just going back and forth, fighting fighting, fighting fighting. I'm like, guys,

(55:49):
I'm like, as wouldn't want you guys to be fighting
like this, just just fucking this is so stupid, bro, Like,
who cares what this guy said about as fuck him?

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Who is he? Like?

Speaker 1 (55:56):
It doesn't even matter, Like shit's irrelevant, you know what
I mean? But young kids doing young kids shit, bro,
you know what it's like, all these kids like twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four, young bro. You know now, I
look back and I'm just like, fuck, that was stupid.
It was over nothing important, Like literally just dumb shit.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
That's the reason why I stopped going out in Sydney
because when I stopped doing the clubs, I just went
Sydney change for me and I just went I don't
go up ventually, clem.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
I mean, has it changed in terms of like the
bullshit that goes on? I think the bullshit has always stayed.
The new generation coming through the scene. Yeah, just you can't,
you can't.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Either, Bro, I resonate much more with people of your
generation than I do with the generation. Like I'm right
in the middle. The generation blow me. They just they're
just a few quids fucking short of a fucking screw loss.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
I just I can't.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
I don't understand how they work, how they function. I
don't get their jokes. I just I just don't understand them, Bro,
I don't, and I don't want to understand them, to
be honest. And that's why you got yourself out of
the scene.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Oh, that's why. Because when you get out of the scene,
I got when the lockdowns happened fourteen, I got out.
It was close, and I just went, now, I can't
do this no more, you know what I mean? There
was just I was seeing things changes and I just
I can't do it. Yeah, as loyalty as gone, there's
no such thing as loyal back anymore. People were People
were jealous of you for what you did, or who
you were with, or who you tall.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Popp your syndrome brother like back then, but back then
it was really maybe because it was in the times
were grown up, but back then people were super jealous
of as and me on the come up. But then
now as I'm older, all these young kids are now
looking in like such a light like fuck, you know,
like and now it's like there's so much respect and love.
But back when I was younger, because we're all the
same angel, it's a lot of competition and tearing people down.

(57:35):
But yeah, it's weird. Like you get older and then
you build yourself up, you earn the respect, and then
the generation below you shows you that respect if you've
made something of anything of yourself. But at the time
when you're trying to make it up and make come
up on the come up, you just get shut on left, fright,
and center.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Making a lot of attention, you see, and the attentions
on you. And that's what it was like with me,
the attentions all on me. People who liked it, you
would have copped it, mate, what I mean? People just
getting jealous?

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Many fights? Would you fucking get into a lot of fights?
Lose any of them?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
No, I've never lost a fight. Aheah, that's a nice
thing to say. Oh, I mean, and I've never been
put on my ash yet. Wow, I'm not saying no
one's gonna put don't don't be fucking I'm saying that
when I had to double.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
The retired man a family man.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Now fight nor more, don't fight, but yeah that's yeahs.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Always What else were you then when you got out
of it, it would have been like late thirties.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
It was late thirties.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Yeah, good time to get out.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, you know what I mean? And as I said,
I think I had I had my two boys then
and I just can't do this no more. Yeah, how
are your boys at the time, Well, they were just
being born and just being born. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Kids changing, man, Yeah, I feel like kids changing, you know.
I mean, I'm not quite there yet, but I can
imagine when I do, like would probably just give me
more more purpose, more grind and want to pull away
from the bullshit, you know what I mean. So do
you still speak to I speak.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
To a lot of most of the text measures, but
I'm close to some of the boys, Like as I said,
I picked up Sam from the airport either after that. Yeah,
I saw, I'm friends with Farty a lot we go,
you know, with.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
His fuddy still so Michael, Michael's one jel Yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Yeah, but I don't go back in the scene anymore
because I don't want to be I don't want to
be coached back in, not that I probably would be,
but I just want to keep a distance because I've
got my own business now, you thing, Yeah, my brand.
I don't need to be pulled into it or look
who you're hanging around with. I don't need that ship. Yeah,
as a sun's changed, Bro, I'm trying to be Kneil now. Yeah,

(59:27):
not the person who was in the cross anymore.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Yeah, I get that, bro.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yeah, but then you know, you get haters. You fucking
want to think they know my life and they don't
know my life by you don't know so.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
I mean, bro, like cut from the same cloth, just
different stories, you know, you know what I mean? Like
people thought they knew who I was my whole life,
and I just wanted to be my own man. And
now that I'm my own man, like all the respect came,
but it's like, where were you, motherfuckers when I was
always this guy all along, you know what I mean?
Like I had to prove myself.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Part two of this conversation with Chess Brown continues next week.