I was a Russian Spy | Aliia Roza

Aliia Roza was trained in the Russian military as a Spy and at age 18 witnessed the horrors of war in Chechnya. Her expertise was seduction and infiltrating organisations. In this episode she talks about her life starting in the military, her views on Russia and Putin and when she fell for one of her targets.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoject Production.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the
Muscle comments and in this episode I speak with former
Russian spy Alia Rossa.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
I was trained to fell in love and all the
bodies who just lay on the floor and then we're
just like throwing away to the rubbish. I do have
fears because I know what's thesistantly in Russia. I know,
like the way they are. I was exotic, so I
was the only fun Asian. I know it's scary, Okay,

(00:39):
so the truth? Do you want to know the truths?
My last target was.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Let's let's get into this because I've been so excited
to have you on my podcast. So before we get
into the nitty gritty, I want to say thank you
for coming on.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's been a working process, but I finally got you.
Let's start off with you growing up as a child
and talk about your family first and what it was
like growing up in Moscow in Russia.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, I grew up like in the different countries because
my father at that time was already a higher ranking
officer and then according to his position, we had to
travel around Soviet Union that time, so it changed my
schools all the time, and I would, you know, be
very nerdy and you know, like Saviet Union. I think

(01:38):
like it's people who were worn there they will understand.
But just to explain, like you know, your listeners, Savit Union,
it was the country where at some point, you know,
old people would say, oh it was amazing because we
would know what would happen tomorrow. It was stability, right,

(01:58):
so everybody had the same salary, everybody would have the
same house, the same clothes, the same furniture at home,
like everything everywhere with the same. But I feel like
I was won being creative and I love fashion a lot,
and I just couldn't look at this like ugly gray houses.

(02:23):
The weather also is like there is no sun, you know,
like it's always gray ish, very cold. If it's summer,
just maybe one or two months, it's very hot, rainy.
It's like it's just like winter, like the snow. I
honestly I hate winter. Like with snow. I mean I'm

(02:44):
not talking about Switzerland's alpswear or like friends where you
can just like go for you know, skiing and snowhere.
It's it's different. It's different. It's it's like when you
go out and you feel like it's so cold that
you your bones inside are like freezing. That's how cold
it was. And that's why I think like Russians, they

(03:04):
they were a lot of first, and then people say like, oh,
like you know, they were first, and I'm like, it's
almost impossible to survive outside without like really warm clothes
because like nothing will help. And I remember like being
a girl and like I instead of walking to the school,
I had to run because it was so cold. And obviously,
like my parents didn't you know like that, they're kind

(03:29):
of like a Prestroyica sort of revolution started in Russia
after the Soviet Union was full and nobody had money,
so it was such a big poverty in the country.
It was almost you know, homeless people, homeless kids, all
the animals. You could imagine everybody on streets, very hungry,

(03:51):
very poor, and it was really it was a very
hard time for this country. And it just was like
really really sad to see all that when I was
growing up. And then you know, my father obviously like
how you know, a lot of parents, right, they want
their kids to become someone they want them to be.

(04:14):
If he's like, like, your parents are doctors. They want
their kids to become doctor because they can pass this
knowledge or like experience. So I guess my dad had
only one plan for me, which was the military, because
he was like, oh, you have your you know, bonuses,
you have a stable salary. You know, eventually you can

(04:35):
they can provide you with accommodation, you know, government accommodation.
So it was the only one way how to actually
for him to leave. And also his grand his father,
my grandfather, he was also in the military, so like
for and then if you're going back back back, all
my family were warriors, military people. So it's just like

(05:00):
my grandfather probably like was such a powerful person in
our family that he you know, he was a national hero.
He we have like a huge monument with his name
written on it. It's such a heritage for our family.
So I guess, like, you know, like I just couldn't
say no, even though, like I said, like, but Dad,
like I really wanted like work in fashion, and he's like,

(05:22):
what fashion is, Like you have like one shoes, one skirt.
That's enough, you know, That's it. And I'm like, you know,
like I wanted and I was teaching like dresses for
girl for like dolls, you know, like girly things, and
he kind of like didn't get it. And when I
came to military, I was like it wasn't even worse
in terms of like my my world because you know,

(05:46):
like I wanted to kind of like stand out, and
I always would like stitch and tailor clothes for myself
to go to the school, pick like my granny's dresses
and just like retailer it like tailor cut it and
like make it like looking nice. And everybody would be like, oh,
where did you get it? Because everybody would have the
same stuff, like saying different colors, same things. And when

(06:09):
I came to the military and they have I have
to wear the uniform, I'm like, oh my god, it's
a one more ugly, like you know, like this very
military uniform just like killing me. But then yeah, then
when I kind of like diving into the world of
sex oonage and intelligence service, I just realized it's not

(06:34):
just the clothes, it's like the whole system is is
called it evil.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
So, yeah, did your moment you said joined the military.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
No, my mother she had position of a pewer. You know,
I'm coming from Kazakhstan. Apparently you know, it's a it's
a very patriarchy family system, so where's women. Asian women
would have to serve the man all his life and
be just a house wife. And because they expected a

(07:06):
boy and a girl, the first girl appeared. So as
an older child, I would need to, you know, follow
my dad's footsteps. And that's why I went to the military. Otherwise,
if I would be like middle or like, you know,
the youngest child, I may kind of like avoid that.
But you know, my dad like kind of like, okay,

(07:26):
you know, I'll make you to be a soldier. So
my mom, no, she actually she's an amazing woman. But
I actually was thinking about my parents today morning when
I was getting ready, you know, like she she's a
perfect wife. But it's very sad that a lot of

(07:51):
women who cannot stand for themselves, or who are insecure,
or maybe they have their own fears or maybe trauma
in the past, they depend from the man so much
that they cannot see anything for them in this world.
Like she never had professions, she never had friends, she
never had hobbies, and all her life was around my dad.

(08:15):
I mean, for a man, it's kind of cool, right,
It's almost like he has like a free slave, you know,
like like you know, cooking, feeding, you're taking care of
about you, naturing you, like, I mean, this is amazing.
But as a woman, she never kind of like realized
for dreams, and this is very sad. I think, like
everything has to be in the balance, not just for

(08:37):
a man, but for a woman as well, like for everyone.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Do you think that Do you think that's still like
that in Russia?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now in some cases yes, but it's just because of
like an education. So of course the government, not only
in Russia but everywhere in the world, they tried to
decrease the educational level of the civilians, right, so nobody
would ever have power enough or intelligency enough or skills

(09:07):
enough to stand and make a revolution and become, let's say,
a new leader. Of course, they want to control it
and prevent it. The same story in Russia they keep
everything at the minimum level of the education, where I
know that a lot of women already became like more independent,
but still there for if you bond woman, it's sort

(09:30):
of like the only one chance you can make it
in life is to marry the most the best man
who will take care about you and your kids and
like you basically become dependent of him, and it's not
almost like somebody choose it because of I don't know,
their laziness maybe or just like, oh, you know, I

(09:52):
just don't want to work. You know, women sometimes say
and like I just want to be sort of like
I just want to be wifey, which is okay. I
mean like, if this is like her, you know, dream
good for her. But you know, life is life. And
while I have a lot of students coming with the
same problem. When you're young and beautiful and you have

(10:14):
a lot of time in front of you, think like, oh,
everything would be good. I'll just like being a wife.
I have kids, da da da, you know how, and
them just like waiting for my husband at home. And
then what happens over time if you don't develop yourself,
if you don't improve your emotional intelligence level, and you
don't really like realizing yourself as a person as a

(10:36):
human being. Usually man when they achieve a certain level,
they have to move on to another person because they
need an equal partner and kids and all that. It
doesn't work anymore if the woman is not going together
with her husband at the same like step where they
complement each other, where they exchange they you know, experiences

(10:59):
and you know, like support each other in different areas.
Then this is like basically the beginning of the end.
And it's very sad that you know, even sort of
like becoming much older and then the husband just leaves
for another younger, intelligent, beautiful woman and the first vife

(11:21):
is basically just like by herself, and it's very sad.
So in this case, of course, like when my students
come to me, like I always recommend to have your
own profession and at least like those income which would
be enough to pay for your expenses, like minimal expenses

(11:41):
which you need in your life. In this case, you
know that you don't depend from your husband fully. Yes,
of course you cannot like you know, pay for everything,
but like I'm talking about like minimum things like your
house insure, sky insurance, car payment rent, I mean, like
even manicure predicular and all these things, like I mean,

(12:03):
it's still money. And I mean do you have a
like really like the bride asking your husband, oh, can
you please give me money for the manicure? I mean,
it's such a I don't know, it's such an embarrassment actually,
you know, so so yes, women have to have a
profession in the hands for sure. That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Was how strict was your father on you? Was he
very strict?

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Super I don't know, even like I'm mother myself, right,
my son is like, Mom, You're like such a cool
mom and all that. I was scared my dad so
much that I couldn't even talk to him, like it
wasn't even just like being strict, but he was very
I mean he still is. But now I see him

(12:50):
not that often because I cannot go to Russia or visits,
and we see together maybe one two times one time
in two years in other countries. If I would go
to Turkey or somewhere else, they would come also there.
So I'm planning to see them this August actually with
my sister as well. So I haven't seen her for
many years. And my sister saying like she's younger sister,

(13:15):
like five years younger, and she had she also had
these fears like I don't know, like my dad like
it's just very kind of like I love him, but
like I mean, don't get me wrong, I mean I
would never be I would never do the same things
like my dad did for me and my sister to
my son, like, and my son always said like, oh mom,
you're so cool, like he trusts me. He comes and
he says, I have a girlfriend. I lost my virginity?

(13:37):
Can you mentione it? So cool? Like that's amazing. I
mean it's so nice to hear like you know, like
it's just I'm so happy that you can share these
things with me and with my dad. Like it's just
like we were always so he was he was very
cold father, so I you know, I couldn't say no.

(14:00):
And then do you think he brought.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
The militry home to brought his way home? He always
brought it home. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah. My mom used to say, I mean, darling, don't
forget your at home. You're not at work anymore. Because
he used to have so many soldiers underneath, like and
he would just like command them and you know, I'm
talking about like thousands of soldiers. And of course he
would be like you know with this, like I say
so like you know, yes, sir, like this kind of stuff,

(14:30):
and I'm like, you know, we're at home, like three
females and like we can all like yes or like
it's always like you know, there's different things like females
are very you know, fragile, and of course it was
really really hard, so I mean, but yes, God bless them.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Do you think do you think you missed out on
a childhood?

Speaker 1 (14:51):
My dad?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
No, you do? You think me.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Totally like I never really had a child, but of
course not. First of all, it was pretty stroya. The
revolution after the US is our fall. And then you know,
it was really really hard time because everybody were in
hunger and hunger so everybody didn't have food. You would
go to the shop, there was no food at all.
You couldn't buy anything. Like you imagine you come to

(15:17):
the store there is no food at all, and you're
like starving, and you keeps at home starving. It was
really sad time. So I remember that I would go
to the school and my mom like we didn't have
anything apart from just like you know, a piece of
bread and water and like you know, no milk, no
no butter, no like pasta or whatever. And we had

(15:42):
to go through that sort of like starvation and surviving.
And I don't know, like if you ask me if
I had like happy memories about my childhood, I would
bring only one memory. And this girl always comes to
me in my dreams and I hope she's alive. It's
as I said, there was so many homelesses, you know,

(16:05):
is just crazy. But the wars that they were homeless kids.
So what happened when the revolution? The better short cup again,
all these thousands millions of people, they obviously didn't have
any money, any job, and a lot of them they
started to you know, use they would do it home,

(16:29):
like how do you call it, like the homemade alcohol,
like really bad quality muon shadow or something like this munshadows.
So a lot of people died because obviously it was
not the right way they did it, but then it
created so many alcohol addicted people. It was just like everywhere.

(16:52):
So those kids, they kids, they were left by themselves.
So instead of like you know, schools also like it's
almost like nothing was working. Everything was like really bad.
So those kids was almost like thrown to the to
the streets, and you would go on the street you
would see all these homeless kids and the parents got

(17:13):
nosewhere maybe they did maybe they I mean, like, have
you been in La, Okay? So I have never seen
anything like this anywhere, And like La, people say, oh,
there's so many homelessness. I'm like guess if you would
see what was happening the time, it was after nineties
in Russia, you would understand that this is okay. Where

(17:34):
you literally go out on street and like everywhere everywhere,
all these you know, homeless kids and teenagers. It's like
it's it was really sad. So I I had, you know,
in a building where we used to live in one
of the apartments. They were like a female which was

(17:59):
drug or you know, alcohol addictd I don't know really,
but he had she had a lot of kids, like
were five kids, and the youngest daughter was like just
three years old. She was like a little cute baby.
But because her mom was like somewhere or drinking or whatever,
nobody really took care about her. So she would every
morning she would go outside and sit down on the

(18:20):
street and just like sit like this. No food, like
very dirty, no like no clothes, like you know, no toys.
And I saw her and I was the time. I
remember I was in a second grade, so I was
like seven years old, and I would bring her like
some sandwiches, I would feed her, I would wash her.

(18:44):
My mom was against that. Then I had to hide
some food and you know, feed her. I brought her
some toys and everything. It was like, you know, I
still remember her eyes. So I think like that kind
of like led me into the department. I don't know,
I mean, like it's destiny or whatever. I don't know,
it led me into the department of you know, sort

(19:04):
of Dea in America, so people kind of understand it.
It's a special department, which was that time, I think
again drug and human trafficking. So and it was so
connected because you know, like these two criminal worlds obviously connected,
and then there were so many these homeless kids, so

(19:27):
it was so easy for criminals just to kidnap them,
take them basically and sell it to other countries. I'm
talking about Albania, Greece and the countries. So if well,
we had the one case and my my friend who
passed away recently, she was on you know, the the

(19:51):
main leader of the team who was doing that. So
they were tracking those those under age girls who had
to walk through mountains to get the board of Greece
to be sold there. And from like she said, like
from like hundreds of them, only like thirty survived. I mean,

(20:15):
so I guess, like where were the buddies She's like
they just dropped them, they just left them there. And
that's what I'm talking about. Like it's like it's super
super super bad. It's very sad, it's empty human. And
I think, like this my childhood memories with this, like
what I've seen with my eyes and then what I've

(20:35):
seen when I was eighteen years old and we would
infiltrate houses where I would see all these sex abuse,
sex traffic kids being overdose and all the bodies which
just lay on the floor and they would just like
thrown away to the rubbish. And I mean, like it's
I don't know how to explain, but it's something which

(20:57):
never leaves you. It's like stays inside of your heart
and soul. And when I see that, of course I
cannot not accept that. And I'm working right now and
I'm so blessed to be in a safe space, rate
place which is America. It gave me home and amazing
people actually come into my life and they say, well,

(21:20):
like I want to help you. I said, like, well,
I would love to found well own charitable foundation to
help those kids who've been sex trafficked or like help
them to get escape, help orphan kids, especially because when
kid comes to this world. You know, they don't choose
the family, like they just they're born. They're like absolutely

(21:41):
you know, angels, they just clean and like they come
to this world with love and as adults, like not
all of us, but a lot of us, we just
don't understand that. And really, you know, I mean, it's
so sad that these kids they have to go through

(22:02):
the challenges of life and unfortunately become home they become
criminals or prostitutes or even worse because of they don't
have any other options. They don't have education, The government
usually don't support charitable orphan houses, orphanages, and it all

(22:22):
becomes like a business. And if it would all help
as much as we can those children who don't have parents,
I mean, like the world would be much better place.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
For sure, grow growing up. Did you ever see that
kind of stuff, like before you went joined the military?

Speaker 1 (22:43):
So yeah, so I've seen it myself when I was
a little girl and teenagure.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
And how did how did you feel when you've seen
that when you were a little girl, Like was it
was it daunting for you or did you not really
know what was going on? Did you not really what's
going on?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Like I mean like living in the house with a
high ranking officer talking about politics. They watching news NonStop
and still now, I mean, like we cannot talk about
politics with my dad. This is our taboo because like
when the Ukrainian War started and I started to share
my Instagram my position where I set for the piece

(23:19):
and actually I open up about my past when the
Ukraine War started, because like I mean, like come on,
like it's like I still cannot believe this is still happening.
Like I can't believe that because you don't understand and
your listeners to understand. I mean, Ukraine and Russia it's
almost like sister and brother like they have almost like

(23:42):
I don't know, like the statistically it's like maybe forty
percent of Russian Russians Russian blood living in Ukraine and
vice versa. Or like couples which are like half one
Ukrainian one Russian. And like kids, I mean, like we
are talking about like new generation, these kids, they are
half Ukrainian and half Russian. How can you do the

(24:03):
war between yourself? People get manipulated. They they just been
like you know, dived into that manipulation game, and it's
very sad that they're just being used and being killed
for nothing.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Really well, it's about It's like it's like to say,
when Yugoslavia split and they split into Sabir and Croatia.
You know what I mean. Yeah, same story. So before
you get what h were you when you joined the military?
Eight Wow?

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I like literally turned eighteen when that straight too? Well,
like okay, because I went up to seventeen. I was
like I got accepted to you know, to college to
university with all my classmates, and I was like, yes,
I'm going there, like nah, you know, like I was
looking for the college sort of like you know, young

(25:06):
age where you still kind of like not adult, but
you have your kind of like freedom. You can live
in the door, you can date someone. And I looked
to my like friends, and I was like I really
want that. But instead my dad like just like he
took my papers from the college and he brought me
to the military. And I never experienced that feeling. I

(25:30):
never experienced, like you know.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Sweetheart love, you never had a boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
No, I was when I came to the apartment, I
was like basically first raped and I was virgin, and
then I was just like completely like constantly you know,
sexually abused by much older man who wore my commanders
and I and I was like, oh my god, this

(25:56):
is this is sex, this is love, like seriously, like
I mean, I didn't, I couldn't understand these kind of things.
But unfortunately I missed that, you know, I missed that
sweetheart years. And when I see my son right now
dating his girl and his day of fifteen, and you
know they're from high school and they're so cute, I

(26:17):
just feel like, I mean, my dad would not allow
that for sure, but of course I do allow my
son to relationship and I kind of like live through
him right now, and I just enjoy looking at them
and just you know when they build this first love
relationship and it's so beautiful and they just you know,

(26:40):
doing so many things together. They're going actually today tomorrow
to help one charity to they're doing like a vand
to raise some money for children who have artistic skills.
But they don't have, you know, money to pay for
they kind of assay so like you know, pants or

(27:01):
anything like this, so that would be nice. So so yeah,
I you know, you didn't.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
You didn't try to sneak, like sneakily have a date
or anything like that before you I.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Mean like no, I mean I remember, like I remember
once one time I begged my parents.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
I was sixteen, already like seventeen, like I think, like
I gregated at seventeen, right, so I backed my I
think I was seventeen. So I have never kissed a
boy at seventeen, never touched his hand. I was so shy,
I was so nerdy, it was like insane. So first
time I begged my parents please let me stay till

(27:45):
nine pm at the disco, you know, like in the school,
and they, thank god, they allowed me. So what I
did I put like a skirt is always like you know,
like a long skirt. But then I was a tailor,
so I took my grandis, I took my grandy skirt.
I did it like really cool shirt, you know, shirt skirt,

(28:08):
and I put it and Denise and I came to
the disco party and I took this shirt like the
told the dig skirt. I took it out and like
you know, I probably had already that time. Quite nice, buddy,
I don't wanted to be leave. And the guy from

(28:29):
another class, like which is older, I didn't know him.
I have never seen him. I mean like I was
a nerd, but I took off my glasses, I did
like some nice hair, I put a little bit lipstick
of my friend. I was not allowed to put any
many cure any makeup on my face. So the guy
comes to me and he you know, asked me for
to dance with him to the dance and then he says,

(28:51):
I want to, like, you know, walk you home. And
I was so scared and I lich and he's like,
I will wait for you outside of the school. I'm
like okay. So now, like I already was so scared
and sort of traumatized. If my dad will see him,
he will like beat me and all that. So I

(29:13):
literally ran away and I never saw him, and I still,
you know, at this age, I still remember his face.
And like when I speak with my students and they
usually say that, well, I was reaped, And especially when
if you like virgin and you were reaped for a woman,
the first intercourse is so important because like this is

(29:36):
you know, this is the first time. It's very special
and it's very painful, you know, like don't forget it's
you know, first time, and it's you know, like it's
this kind of like discomfort like because you you didn't
really I mean, like you'd understand your body, but you
don't understand how does it work fully? And losing your

(30:00):
virginity with somebody whom you like and you accept him
and you want want to be with him, this is amazing,
like the way I see you know, first love, you know,
like Roman Duli, these sort of things. But and I
had this like thought after that, I wish I could

(30:22):
lose my virginity before with him, rather than being raped
by the forty eight years old you know, commander in
a really bad way, like with the you know, all
the and handling and all that. So I so, yeah,
So I feel like I missed that boyfriend girlfriend things.
And I honestly never had that after that time, Like

(30:43):
I just I never did.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Did your father not know about that? Like what was
going on yeat that time?

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I already did. So in the military used to stay
in the dorm, you know, like it's it's almost like
so it's a it's academy, it's a college. So you
go there, you study, then you go to sleep there,
then early morning repeat. And I remember I slept and
we're all, I mean, like everybody slept like me four

(31:10):
hours at least, like we didn't have a lot of sleep.
And when you know, we spoke with Neil, with Neil Strauss,
and you know, I kind of like for all these
years I never came back and I kind of like
analyzed what like why they were doing this, like what
they were doing, and then he said like, well, they
probably did it for easily mentally brainwash you, because when

(31:35):
you physically tired and exhausted, that then it's easy to
program your brain and to feed you with some bs
which they want to feed you. You know, like you
have to be patriotic, you have to fight for your
you know, country, it's a war right now in Chichen.
Who wants to be hero? And you mentally exhausted, physically exhausted,

(31:57):
so you kind of like you just follow someone sleep
without even thinking.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
So when you were eighteen, I seen that you were
selected from one hundred, three hundred and fifty students to
join the KGB. How did that feel?

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Awful?

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Was that? Was that? Was that? Your goal?

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Is?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Is that what you're going? Is that what you're raying for?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
I didn't I didn't know exactly what was this program about.
All the students who were enrolled in the first you
know course of the military academy where we would study
just like basic things like gun shooting, martial arts. Also

(32:47):
like how to open the doors, like all these like
you know, spy sort of gudgets. But it's like kind
of like just technical stuff, like it's not really like
where to put the cameras, how to put like the
viral blah blah blah, all these like technical things, and
of course a lot of like law, what you're allowed
to do, what you don't allow to do, when you

(33:07):
can shoot with you and you cannot shoot, like all
this like criminal and administrative law rules. So this is
like normal basic education. I've been choosing for this program
because they were looking for you know, certain There were

(33:27):
a really strict condition to get to this course, the
sex spanage course. First of all, you have to be
you had to be added twenty five. I don't know why,
but I guess I don't know. You had to be
very physically attractive, you know, like it's almost like a

(33:49):
ballet sort of like school. If you're not told enough,
if you're not slim enough, sorry but you can't be
a ballet dancer. We had to all have like minimum
one hundred and seventy centimeters height. We had to have
like we had we had to be very mentally stable,
so we had these all these psychological like tests. We

(34:13):
had to be I mean like we had like genecology
also examinations, so we had to be like sort of
like I mean, be healthy. And I mean they were
like what else single obviously the devotion for the for

(34:36):
the mission of course, and I don't know, it's like
it's like really like sort of like where they're choosing
like the best soldiers for this program, and from three
hundred and fifty they chose only five females, including me,
and we all were kind of like similar, but it's

(34:59):
kind of like different types. It's almost like you know,
like one blonde, one brunette, one ginger hair. Seriously, like
I'm telling you, like that's how we look like. And me,
I guess they choose me. So my my nickname was Exotic,
so I was the only one Asian.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
I know.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
It's funny, Oh you know, it's like in a sort
of like in the movie what's the name Charlie's Angels,
you know, same stuff, but five demons. So all of
us we were like so different, but young, beautiful, fresh,
you know, very alluring, but very dangerous, and I feel

(35:38):
like I still come this way. Unfortunately for me, I want.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
To be like.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Really cannot like men usually say, oh my god, you
intimidate me so much, like I'm freaking out. I don't
know what to say. I'm like, dude, can you relax please?

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Like, yeah, I reckon you would be very intimidated.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
I want to I don't want to be like this
aggressive sexy, like you know, bombshell. I want to be
like more like warm and friend lay and all that.
But I guess it's just my aura. It's like inside
of me, it's like how I how I am? It's
my nature. You know, you get what you get. I mean,
like you see what you get.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Well, well, the thing is that you're trained to do
that and subductile. So that's probably why you comment over
intimidating because you don't even have to do anything. You
look intimidating.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Oh, I mean you can be only nice to me
because I'll fucking yeah, you cannot do that to me.
And you know I never obviously, you know, I don't
have any enemies. All my axes and I the best

(36:52):
friends like that. I swear to God, I was married
five times with all my husbands, we like the best friends.
They're all this, like you're you're the best woman in
my life from one who passed away. Unfortunately, you're the
best I knew you would be. Like what.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
I just to say.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
That second season, Neil, you have to make Eventually it
will come in the whole thing, Like I mean to
spy period of my life. I had another, the most incredible,
the most Jason bondy period of my life for another
ten years. So it's another story. What I was saying

(37:45):
is I'm very friendly. I'm very diplomatic. I'm always saying,
like friends with everyone. I don't have any animies or
I don't know, like any like kind of like I
mean like I don't see them. I mean like all
my I have like millions of friends, I mean friends like,

(38:05):
I mean I know them, they know me, like I'm
always nice, we like catch up blah blah blah. But
it's like you know what, it's like, it's art of communication.
So they may be intimidated in the beginning, but when
they really like open up and we talk and I
explain who I am, and you know, I kind.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Of like I.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Don't really make it in purpose, but I make sure
everyone who have bespeacted me feel good about himself. Like
you know, it's just sort of like providing a nice
atmosphere where people can also feel like comfortable with you.
So and then we become good friends.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
You know what, You've sugguced them and you've got what
you want. Do you get bored?

Speaker 1 (38:53):
This is one hundred percent yes. But I'm not greedy
or whatever like I was. I wasn't asking for money
or something like this, but I yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
But what I'm saying is when you've sueduced them, and
you know, because you know how to get a man,
when you've got that man that you want, it's game
over for him. Yes, yes, yes, yes, but it's also
but it also came over for you because you've done
the job. Do you get bored of that? No?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
No, no, no, no, I am I operate in a different way, Neil.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Okay, No suduction.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
It's it's like a lifestyle. I seduction. It's art of
communication number one. And when I said, like, you make
people feel good about themselves, and I literally become in
any relationship like the best woman in their life. And
that's why we you know, we never ended up in

(39:50):
a bad way our relationship. It's always was like let's
you know, let's still be friends, let's be in you know,
each other's life. They know I got day back. I
know I got day back. It's something and it's incredible
that you know that you have, like you know, you're
in a circle of these people who really care about you. Okay,

(40:12):
and of course you know it's like we always keep
in touch and it's not just like happy New Year
or happy birthday, but like I just spoke a few
days ago with my uh, with my first husband, and
it's just like we keep friendship. I mean, like all
of them live in different countries though, which is.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
How many countries did you say?

Speaker 1 (40:36):
You went to London and London, Greece, Switzeraly friends now
us before in Russia, So seven countries I lived in?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yes, awesome, so only five five husbands, but seven countries.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Fun marry again. I'm joking, like I hope that next time,
before till the end of our life. Still that I
don't know. It's just I do leave man when I

(41:13):
see that the man it doesn't want to evolve and improve.
When I see the man becomes sort of you know,
I'm a very ambitious person. And when I see that
my partner reached his certain level and he doesn't want
to go further, yeah, I say, listen. I love you, okay,

(41:37):
I love you so much, you amazing person. We had
amazing time together. But I need to fly, and do
you fly with me together? Either. I have to leave
you wherever you are in this place and I need
to fly there because I have my final destination and
I need to be there. This is my life mission

(41:58):
and it's more important for me than anyone or anything
in the world. I said to the Charitable Foundation, and
you know, raise the awardeness for these global problems. This
is me. This is why I came to this life.
That's why I you know, that's why I live, and
that's why I share my story. And actually I think,

(42:20):
like that's why I survive all this, you know, crazy time.
And I don't want to drugs anyone drop to the
destination where I'm going, you know, because like this is
wrong because everybody has their own agenda, their own goals.
If he doesn't feel this is what he wants, I'd

(42:42):
rather let him do what he wants in his life, Okay,
and I'll go there where I'm going. But it's good
to secure friendship because I don't want to like press
pressure someone or like push someone for what you know.
And also I will not take this person and put
on my shoulders and like fly because like the weight,
they'll like push me down and I wouldn't be able

(43:04):
to fly and do things what I need to do.
And that's why when men understand that, and he comes
aground and say, I understand like what you're doing. I
love what you're doing. You have your you know, support,
my support, your freedom if you need to do it,
that's it. That that's my partner. But I haven't met
him yet, you know, and I know that I will

(43:26):
one day and you know, and then they'll text, youse, nil,
I did it.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
He's very good. What was it? What was it like?
Going back to when you did you know that was
your job to do that? How would you do that task?
You know? How would you look at that enemy to
say this is how I've got to go about it.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Okay, So the most important rule I have to study
is when you approach, when you seduce, when you start
to communicate with men, never do this from the position
you want something from him. So because man and not
stupid girls. Men feel everything. It's almost like animal instinct.

(44:12):
When the woman come from the position, oh, look at
this guy. He has expensive watch, he has a like
expensive shoest h, he has expensive car. Now we'll like,
you know, seduce him, play with him, and he'll buy
for me. Like whatever, This is wrong approach because men
feel it straight and if he wants to just have

(44:33):
one night stand, he may do that and it will
be transactional. But this is not you know, healthy long
loving relationship right any criminal, any mafia, whatever, whatever, whoever.
They also feel it even more. If I would come

(44:54):
across and say like, oh hey, how are you blah
blah blah, you know, and start to seduce him from
the position that I need to seduce him because I
want to get someone from me out of him, I
want something from him, he would feel the same. So
every time I would approach, it has to be the
position from love, a truly love and real admiration. And

(45:21):
it's there are a lot of techniques which I actually
teach to my students, and we start from love to yourself.
If you want to seduce someone, you have to seduce
yourself first. So self love self esteem and self confidence.
This is number one. You cannot seduce anyone if you

(45:41):
have this balance in this organization. And sort of like
you know, some unhealed traumas okay, because you past will
catch up with you when you will start. Maybe man
wouldn't feel it, but when you will go deeper, man
would feel your you know, insecurity, sphears trauma and he

(46:05):
was like, you know, like there's so many shit to do,
like I just don't understand, Like I'd rather go, and
he will be moving out from you because he maybe
not even understand it, but I'm conscious that he would
read it through the vibrations you send to this man.
That's why it's so important to also work on your

(46:25):
mental balance, mental health, and it really helps. I actually
have a sessions with two therapists every week. It really
really helps me. I mean, like I think everybody has
to have a coach, a therapist, somebody who is like
guiding them and tell them you can do it. Here's this,

(46:46):
here is this, like we need to work on it.
We need to work on that because like that's how
our you know, brain is to disconnected with our with
our heart, with our soul. And as I said, like,
you know, men are very men mostly like they think,
but you know, like they're coming from a position of

(47:08):
alpha male, right like in the animal world. They feel,
is this femail real is that she really wants me
because old man has to have this sort of you know,
flag or like sort of like think like you know,

(47:29):
adult where I don't want to be used for money.
I don't want to be just a vullet for a women.
I want to be loved by for me. You know,
so when women compliment, oh I love your like jacket,
I love your car, this is bloody worse, like, don't
say it's women. Never instead say I don't know. Like

(47:49):
if you know the I mean, if you kind of
like know about him, you may compliment his intelligent level,
like oh I read your book or I saw your
you know, your bed on YouTube, or I listened to
your podcast and it was so amazing and like I
like this and this points and I have actually a
question about this in this way, you know, you kind

(48:12):
of like expressing to the man, to your target, Let's
say that you really admire his work and it's much
more important because man, they realize, you know, like the
whole realization than being a man goes through the work,
through what they create, what they build, and I think

(48:33):
this is a very important thing for any vieman to understand,
not to approach men or seduce them from the position
of you know, take.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Here's my next question. Then when you seduced one one
of your targets, you must have had some feelings for
one of them because it went fit. Well, how come
it went further? Then?

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Okay, I have a special skill all my.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I bet you too, I bet you.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
I have a lot people are is it's something I
think like a very I don't know if it's good.
I mean, like what is good? Was is bad? Right?
But this particular skill I try to teach my students.
But I will explain you this is very unusual. Okay.

(49:28):
I was trained to fall in love in the moment
when I have when I used to seduce my targets,
and I even know if I have very intimate relationship
with men, I'm devoted to this process. To this man,
not hungrid a one thousand percent. You know when I

(49:51):
it's something like he feels it, not from my bloody
and language. I'm just looking to you know, your eyes
And I don't take my iPhone to check something or
scroll something. I'm all in you, like doing massages and
like talking about out like different things, cooking for you,
nursing you, like asking like how was your dating about?
Like this and this and that, like the work stuff,

(50:12):
and like dreaming together, watching things together, going to do
some hobbies together. I don't know wherever it could be.
It's not just that I am fully devoted and fully
in love during that time I'm with you, the moment
I walked out from the door, or the moment I

(50:33):
just you know, say bye, I love you. It's just
my brain switch off like this and I'm completely you know, okay,
Like this is kind of like okay, done, and I
switch my brain to what I need to do. For example,
I just like switch completely to my work and I'm

(50:53):
really focused on my work.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
And then the guy would say like, oh, I miss
you so much to miss me, and I'm like, honestly
like I don't, because like I have so many things
to do and I'm so focused on what I do
in real time that I don't have this sort of
like oh I miss you, I can leave it olah
blah blah blah. I mean, like come on, this is

(51:16):
like almost like desparation and like it's sort of like
you have the whole life around you. It's not like
it doesn't depend from him or from her completely, but
when I am with him, that moment he fills my
complete love doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
It makes Yeah, I get I get it. But what
I don't get is if you can switch off from doing,
from seducing what you're doing with your target and then
what you leave you're in work mode, then how come
one of your targets it says that you had an

(51:57):
affair with so you couldn't have switched off.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Okay, So the truth, if you want to know the
truth my life. Lass target was the leader of the
criminal gang. This gang was very powerful and very big
and very dangerous in Russia at the time. It's himself

(52:20):
was sort of let's say Pablo Escobar, sort of like that,
and the whole operation was quite you know, it took
like a long time. So eventually when I, you know,
established connection with him, seduced him and so on and
so on for a quite long time for me because

(52:42):
it was like a long drop, I have established a
good emotional bond with him and connection not just physical
connection but a very close very like deep emotional bond.
And I'm here speaking with you right now, sharing my

(53:04):
thoughts and my DearS to your audience. Thanks to him,
because if you wouldn't love me, and he wouldn't appreciate
me and respect me, he wouldn't sacrifice his life for
mine and helped me to escape. And after realizing that

(53:25):
I really was a moll, I was an agent all
this time. I set him up all this time and
manipulated him, and all this time I was not authentic.
Imagine that, like when you realize that this person is
not who like you think it is. Yeah, I, like
I said, like I'm just a students like this and

(53:46):
this I created the whole legend about myself which was
not real. Yeah, and yet I do believe that that
time when I was with him, I was so in
love and devoted. But the moment when he you know,
he put me to the car with his friend who

(54:08):
helped me to escape, and he drove me away from
that city, I remember that I wanted him to go
with me and escape with me because I was scared
to do it myself. Okay, I was twenty one, I
was young. I was scared. I like my commander set

(54:29):
me up, like I lost all the belief to the
whole system. I just like I didn't speak with my
parents that time already, like for a year. They didn't
know what I was doing where I was, like I
didn't have friends. I mean I was completely lonely. Plus
my partner in this operation was killed just a few

(54:49):
days prior, and he was the only one with whom
I had like all this connection with like working stuff,
like I would pass him information, he would give me
some ideas. I mean, I didn't have anyone. I was alone.
I was scared, and I wanted him to go and
be with me because I I didn't want to be myself,
especially I need to like travel and go somewhere and
do something. I was scared. I was scared that like

(55:11):
these criminals eventually will kill me, like something might They
was just like trying to kill me just like a
couple hours ago. You know, it was scary. But the
moment he put me into the car and the moment
I came to this like hidden place which he like
organized for me, I honestly now remember that. I was like,

(55:32):
you know, I closed my door. I was like, okay,
now what's next. So I don't know. I'm a loner,
like you know, like I'm just like, okay, so now myself, Okay,
what's next? What do I do? And like where I
am and what like did I miss him? I guess
I missed like that protection Did I miss him as
a man? I don't think so. I am truly grateful

(55:55):
for what he had done for me. But would I
be with this man for all my life? No? He
was still a criminal and despite to like he's you know,
he was very respectful and all that and all that.
I mean in another world, for example, if you would say, okay,
so he wasn't killed and he comes right now and
he says, I let's be together and let's build build

(56:16):
family and have kids. No, you know what I'm saying,
like that was my job.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Why why? But why when he found out that you
were modeled? Why why didn't he Why didn't he tell you?

Speaker 1 (56:29):
That's the whole huge, you know story in the podcast
today for because it's it's it's a it's a very
very long explanation why all this happened. And I think
like the whole story is like basically built on that.
I would say, why because of the corruption and money

(56:50):
you know, that's it, like and you just it's all
about money, any worse, anything starts from money, from greediness.
That's why.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
That's why I think you say on a few interviews
that you don't you don't fear for your life. Okay,
you don't. You don't, you don't fear about you know what,
what you've talked about and anything like what you're talking
about now about your past. But surely, and I already
go from what I I how I pursue that like

(57:24):
Moscow and Russia to be like that, you must be
a red flag for them.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
I am, and I am not. I will explain I
like a lot of people said, oh, like Navla was killed,
you know, Litvinenko, the former KGB agent was killed, was
poisoned in London in two thousand and sixty. How come
you're not like, like you know, they're wishing me that.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
But all of them, and I know exactly how this works.
All of them they shared number one names, number two,
details of the secret materials that are strictly you know,
secret in Russia. I'm not doing that. The whole My

(58:13):
past is about my past, my experience, my trauma. I
never mentioned any name of my commanders. I mentioned only
names of those my colleagues who were killed one in
the war, my partner, one in this last operation. Two

(58:34):
names only. I never shared the names of my teachers,
of my commanders. Nothing. I never even shared like when
it's like, you know all these details of like different things,
so I don't how to explain, like I stand for
the piece. But it's not like something like where I

(58:56):
explained that how put In does this war and how
did he become a president and what's going on because
of worse, I want to be alive. But yet I
do have fears. I because I know what's the system
then in Russia. I know like the way they are.

(59:18):
But because I decided, and I you know, I stand
for the peace, and I decided to share this not
from the position of the revenge, of the position to
help and inspire and ask for the forgiveness from the
audience who will listen to it. It's almost like I

(59:42):
would I know that I would never go and live there.
Even if something will go wrong in America, I still
will find the way and live another place. I will
never go back to that country. I'm actually I'm not Russian.
I'm from Kazakhstan. I mean, worse comes to words. I
can go to Kazakhstan if I want. What I'm saying
is that if I wouldn't do that, and I wouldn't

(01:00:07):
stand for what I stand, then who will do? Now? Violent?
Did he was? You know, he he died recently in
the jail and now we all know that he was
killed and his wife right now had received an arrest
from the Russian government living in Berlin. I mean, I
understand they can do it to me too, but again,

(01:00:28):
like what like do I go directly to the Russian
against Russian government? I don't. I sent completely for different things.
And as I said, like, I don't. I don't blame
Russian government for what have happened to me. I don't.
It's life, and you know, it's almost like blaming, like, oh,
this happened in my life because he was wrong. This

(01:00:50):
happened in my life because she was wrong. And guess
what like, because when we blame someone, we don't take
responsibility for ourselves. What happened in my life is no
one's fault. It's not my dad fault, it's not the
Russian government fault, it's not Poultn's it just happened. It's
my it's my path, and this was my challenge. But

(01:01:11):
I decided to take this experience and go to the
light and do amazing things rather than go to my
trauma and stay there and blame everyone around me, because
this is the position of the victim, and I don't
want to be a victim. I want to be creator.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I've got a question. Now you say, I'm actually going
to say the name because you're not, But do you
think Putin is very dangerous?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Mm hmm Me personally, I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Know he's dangerous, But do you because because you know
that extent and what you know and seen, do you
think he is dangerous? And he is the type that
does not care and give two folks about and in
the world.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Like Thanas in Avengers movie from the Yeah, which also
Thanas also had his own mission, right and everybody have
the own truth, and even Hitler he had his own

(01:02:35):
mission and he did believe that he was doing what
he was doing for good. And if you will, and
that's why Press calls put In Butler if you and
you know, like I listened to his interviews in Russian

(01:02:55):
and when I listen to it, I see a lot
of similarities with the Hitler. It's not just like people
to say in craziness or whatever. I mean, it's sort
of a cult in a way where he believes that

(01:03:19):
he's saving his nation. He's saving his country, that's what
he believes. The whole world understand that what he's doing
is crazy. And actually this Ukrainian war open the gate
for other countries to start other wars because they say

(01:03:40):
it like, okay, so if they invaded Ukraine, why cannot
we do that with the Israel, Why cannot do it
with Taiwan? Like that's what Chinese think, I mean. And
if we will accept and allow other wors happen in
the world, it will affect all of us in the

(01:04:03):
rest of the world. Of course, like US, Australia is
a separate, big, amazing continent island country. But yet we
all remember that when nuclear bomb was dropped to Japan,
it did affect Japan a lot. But it's almost like

(01:04:27):
a butterfly butterfly reaction, not like action where the reaction
would lead into the whole world. It's just like the
butterfly little like you know, flight can affect the rest
of the world. Same story. I would say I was

(01:04:49):
a little bit sort of like nervous. When I do
believe it was February when Putting promoted in all the
TV channels and US and everywhere that he showcased a
new nuclear bombarder and not only like creating that, but

(01:05:17):
also promoting that and bringing awareness that nuclear weapon is
okay and it's normal in our life. This is terrible
because don't forget that young generation watching also this in

(01:05:41):
media right, and the young generation have this idea okay,
So if somebody will mess up with me or like
do something there is like nuclear weapon. But do people
understand that this nuclear weapon, even if it would be
just like a certain area, it will affect the whole world.
I'm talking about after long term, like after many many

(01:06:05):
many years. I know for a fact, and I have
a lot of Japanese friends where even after nineteen forty five,
I do believe for the forty four the pump was
dropped in Japan, after so many years, they still have

(01:06:27):
radiation and it does affect they health, It does affect
they lend, the plants, they consume, the fish in the
ocean and everything, and we all connected in this world
because we have eighty percent of ocean and those water

(01:06:49):
eventually goes to where relieve, especially Yo guys closer to Japan.
So sorry, that's you know what also affects you and
the fish you consume and seafood you consume, and the
you know, it's all like so connected with not just

(01:07:12):
like the nature, but with all us as human beings.
And I mean, if I were in power, if I
would be able to have enough voice to raise I
would one hundred percent bring an awareness of you know,

(01:07:35):
erasing all the nuclear rippons in every country, in every country,
because this is this is dangerous for all of us,
and unfortunately people don't understand it. For them, it's sort
of tool of uh showing to the world that oh,
we are a powerful country, but this is not the

(01:07:56):
right way. We will all end up being killed. If
this will, you know, continue continue growing. And if putting dangerous,
I mean, if you have such a weapon in your hand,
of course you are dangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
You're very You're clever with your your your answers. I
like that you're very clever with your answers.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Yes, I wouldn't be clever. I wouldn't serve in the military.
I guess I would be like a week rist maybe
like you get me wrong, which is also amazing. I
actually had experience in my life when I was a
waitress too. I mean, like you know, things friend in
life sometimes you you know, money can't money go, but

(01:08:47):
you always have to prepare. But again I would like
to stress that you're you. You don't you are not
born in this world being smart, or being charismatic, or
being like intelligent or being you know, skilled, all these

(01:09:08):
things you can learn. And again it's the more you
learn is more you search, and it's more you like
curis it's more better version of yourself you become. And
this is the most important like have your own brain,
have your own vision, have your own opinion. This is
the most important thing in like that's what I do

(01:09:31):
for myself. That's what you do for you know, for
my son, That's what I eventually want to do in
orphanage to give them very open mind education.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Now your life has moved on, and now you have
so many goals in your life to achieve and your
subeduction life is finished. You don't have to seduce anyone anymore.
What what What does the future the future hold for you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
The future is very bright and with God blessing and
with God's will. And I do believe this is my
destiny because when I analyze certain events in my life,
I understand I wouldn't be right now sitting here giving
you interview if I if it wouldn't be for the destiny,

(01:10:31):
I will not get in there. But I do believe
in universe, science and angels which protect us. Usually it's
our you know, ancestories, grandparents who passed and just you know,
members of the family who really want us to succeed.

(01:10:51):
I do believe this is my destiny. And I cannot
right now tell every single project I'm working at a moment,
but hopefully very soon there would be documentary, the TV series,
feature movie, some other books coming and I'm working on

(01:11:13):
this right now. But for the main goal to fund
the charity and make it happen. And it's very like
you know, I would say, it's a global mission. This
is what I want to do in my life till
the rest of my life. And I know exactly how
I see and I vision myself when I will be

(01:11:34):
old lady sitting at the grass and I see this
like beautiful green grass and I'm in the shed of
a beautiful big tree, and I see a lot of
kids at the playground, you know, just running around, giggling,
laughing and just being kids in a safe environment in

(01:12:00):
the beautiful world. That's what I want to I want
to do everything to give this future. Okays for the new.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Don't get your podcast. You have to plugy your podcast.
You can't. You can't come on a podcast and not
plug your podcast. Because it's now, as you said to me,
now number six, So you know what I mean. So
so tell everybody, tell everybody, everybody your podcast season.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Well, it may be a second season, but you know,
the last episode is coming next week, so it will
be the last one. Now we have fifteen episodes. Sixteen
is coming on Tuesday. So it's very exciting and I'm
extremely grateful. I'm extremely grateful to so many people who

(01:12:50):
work on this podcast, and of course Neil, who basically
had from the beginning an idea of creating the podcast
with my voice in it, with all the authentic emotions
and feelings which I had, and it was extremely difficult,

(01:13:11):
but we did it well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
I want to say a massive, massive thank you for
coming on my podcast. It's been worth the over twelve
months that I've been talking to you. And I hope
everything goes well to you, Thank you, Neil,