July 13, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Jeff Morgan opens up about his turbulent upbringing in Redfern, his rise through the ranks of Sydney’s criminal underworld and the choices that led him into a life of bank robberies and fast money. From the chaos of "The Block" to high-stakes heists across state lines, Jeff shares the gritty reality behind the headlines. Alongside the deeply personal costs, including fractured family ties and years behind bars. But this is also a story of redemption.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the
Muscle comments and in this episode I speak with Jeff Morgan,
a former bank Robert in Sydney's Underworld turned motivational speaker.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Ran out on the street to Sydney and that the
chaos that already learned became who I become. And by
twelve I was locked up and I just walk in
like someone's depositing money. Just jump over the top of him,
bang run out. On the one day we did eight
bank snatches. We've got two one hundred and fifty grand.
That day, I'll get to the clinic at Long bayfogoes.
Can I try his shoes? And I said, yeah, good,
(00:42):
any problem? He put his head down. He might have
accidentally slipped onto my foot and fell down. We weren't bad,
people were just built bad. Eventually it comes around and
you sort of have that realization and there's a better
way to life. All right, let's get this on the way.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
What we'll do is we'll talk about you growing up
first in Redford and how you got into all the
nice stuff that you did in your life, and so
explaining you know, there's just gonna be a brief thing
above growing up in Red Fern and what you did
from schooling to your first job, and then what got
you into crime.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I think the first thing growing up on the block
Everly Street, red from four streets and in amongst that
was dysfunctioned, destruction, chaos, everything that society frowns upon. That
was a normal part of how we grew up and
I become a byproduct of that environment. For me, going
to red from primary school just up the road, filled
with original kids. Our greatest goal was to be the
(01:39):
best criminal, to be the best money maker, sleep with
the most women. And that was probably the biggest goals
we had growing up as a young kid from the
age of ten. So I'm seeing my uncle's the community,
I'm thinking, how good is this life? Man? I just
I can't wait to get to where they got to
and how do I make this money? And for me
it was just you going. It was so diverse. You
(02:00):
go back to the block, hected, crazy, everyone punching on
the life of just I don't even know how to
just just pure chaos. And then you go to school
and all of a sudden it would calm down for
a moment and you'd have to try and not swear
at school, You'd have to try and act normal at school.
You just put on this mask, you know, the bank
robber master that eventually became my life. I suppose in
(02:23):
between those two worlds and twelve years of age, father
was just physically abusive every single day and I just
had enough and said see that, I'm out of here,
hung jump out the window, legged it. And I don't
think he was abusive towards you. I believe it was disciplined.
He's way of the old school way was give you
an upper cut, or give you a bit of a
slap or touch up or whatever you may call it.
(02:45):
And that was just a normal way of life back then,
and that's how he was trying to instill discipline in me.
And I look back on it now and I understand that.
But when a year young kid at ten years I
want my dad to love me, Yeah, it was just
a disconnection, ran out on the streets to Sydney, and
that chaos that already learned became who I become. And
twelve I was locked up, twelve years old, twelve years
(03:09):
breaking en up in Newcastle. So saying we'd already started searching,
breaking in the shops and just up the roading in
High Park borrows and chips from a cannae and found
a whole heap of money and sort of just went well,
if it's in one shop, I must be in every shop,
and started traveling around the whole country. Company were just
whether they were doing this. I think there was four
(03:29):
of us that got arrested that day. I think the
counter of the police station. So there were three of
us and I said the doors open, he's coming with me,
or you're not. And that didn't last too long. I
got out on the streets, was one got arrested somewhere
down the track pretty quickly, and the rest was history.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So you know, when you were growing up in Red Ferns,
do you think the older generation, because you said you
looked up to some of them, Yeah, absolutely, did they
try and entice you to do what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh I suppose, like you know, as you get older,
you can go into drug dealing, you can go into
bake robberies, you can go into all these crazy things.
I think they just more so did it, and we
just wanted to be like them, and that was it.
That's how you made money. Whereas everyone would be like,
get a job doing being an engineered doctor or some
form of the employment. That was our employment. So I'm
(04:15):
just looking at you, going, oh, he's making heaps of money.
Look how he dresses, he's got all the girls around him,
he's driving this nice flash car. I'm going to do that.
That's what you want to do. And you sort of
got the choose your pathway, and it's pretty crazy. You're
looking at your pathways. Do you want to be a
drug dealer or maybe it doesn't sit well with yourself,
or are you going to be a bank rower? Are
you all to be violent? And people love punching on
(04:36):
and would get themselves locked up over that, and it's
just yeah, yeah, So when you came up as well,
what what happened then?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Did you just did you feel like when you went inside,
did you feel like you made a name for yourself
when you come back out.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think at that point in time, probably I was
too young. I didn't have the name that I had eventually,
but I think it was just more like the name
was Redfern, every street Red Fernd, the block was very
well known, So I just piggyback that, you know, And
then you'd see something, you know, what's happening, bro, and
you bump into somebody and all of a suddenly, ah,
he's with the red from boys. And that was it.
(05:11):
So we had such a name within the jail system
that made it easy for myself and by the time
I come out instead of being fear for But you
got to remember, I was abused by my father. I
wasn't getting food at home, so I had three square meals,
a nice roof over my head. I was around the boys.
It was sort of not a bad thing. It was
like almost a holiday. They had swimming pool with all
(05:31):
the boys like that. Who you hunger around with. They
abused by their fathers, I'd say a lot of them, Yeah, definitely, absolutely,
Like a lot of them would have went through what
I went through, and it was just a normal way
of growing up. You know, you get slapped by your
uncle as a kid, especially in our community. It was
about making you tough and some of the stuff. You know,
blokes like yourself. You see blokes like that people be
scared of. Well, I had no fear and where's other
(05:54):
people be? Like, I'm not going on a footy field
with this mom. God, I'd run at this I was
like pass the ball here, I'll show you how to
do it. And it was just that mentality growing up
in that area, having no fear around anything at all.
It was either you went through crime or sports to
get out of there.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Absolutely, And we had a couple of that went through
and they did well in sport. Anthony Mundine he lived
outside the area, but he'd always come in. And Brendan
Williams was another kid who lived on the block. He
did well through Ramriick Rugby Union, signed a contract over
in Italy, played for Australia years. But he had a
family who practiced culture and they were a good working,
hard working family. The rest of it, you know, it
(06:30):
was just you made money off the streets, so we're
just monkey see monkey doing.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You never went to no schooling from I was going
to school at the time. Yeah, but even though you're
traveling up to Newcastle to do Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And when I say that, it was like on and off,
you know, like you go some days, you wouldn't go.
Some days. When I ran away from home, that was it.
The schooling was off. Then I'd come back, I'd get
locked up, get bailed at my father's house, so I'd
do school for a period of time. You look back
on it now, a few hours. For three months. That
was a long long stint to be out for. I
just don't think that I. Outside of that, I was
(07:05):
and going to school, and I'd only go to school
to make sure maybe when I got sentence, I got
a reduced sentence or got off that sentence. Other than that,
it wasn't something It's something I liked, but probably that's
how it sort of panned out. Every time I got bail,
I was doing it for three months, two months, six months.
I don't think I lasted probably six months, you know,
for more than twice. To be honest with you, back then,
(07:28):
you didn't have respect for the law. Back then, you
just and they were bashonists, Aboriginal people just gone through
what they'd gone through, and they you know, there was
this black white thing. I wasn't really into that, to
be honest with it. I was like, you know, why,
how do we get better out of this? And there
was a bloke named Charlie Perkins who pulled me up
in a case. So you think that brick carries a
message that you throwed every police car? And I was like, yeah,
(07:49):
we shown who's boss aunt. I was young, and he
was doing all this activism to actually get Aboriginal people
on the map in a good way. And he said, mane,
you got so much. Everyone follows you. Use it the
right way and do it the right way. Go and
get things put into parliament or in this country where
our people can live a better life but also a
strange you can just merge together. It's changed, you know.
(08:09):
Don't try and get caught up in all that bullshit.
And I think that for me was very powerful. I
was probably fourteen at the time. Him recognizing me even
though he was the legend of our community, and then
having that conversation started to flip me. I was like,
you know what, I have got more. Let's start to
flip this a bit. And I started to look at
things walking up the lame way, people shooting up, you know,
(08:30):
people smoking cones in front of their kids, kids crawling
and grounding glasses, normal people punching on them. We're all
cheering on yeah, smashing bad You know that was your
mate five minutes ago. Now you're telling him to smash him.
And then you're shaking hands and having a drink or something.
After I was like, what is it? This can't be culture, man.
So it was just a combination of that realization, you know,
(08:51):
this isn't culture, this isn't respect. We're getting caught up
in the wrong things. And the wrong things were even
the police, you know, years later, if I did the
right thing, they're not kicking my door in. But I
was just doing the wrong thing at the time. My
best wishes if I And what was it about? You know,
that was the biggest thing. What are you doing? I
was making money? Was it about making money? Or could
(09:12):
you do it the legitimate way and have no one
kick you do unless you don't pay your tax? So yeah,
easy money, let's transition over and that's all I did.
I end up saying enoughs enough, man, I want more
and definitely want to inspire my community too more. And
then I realized it wasn't just my communities. Everyone you
can you know, I became so many friends through the
nightclub scene or whatever it might have been, people like, man,
(09:35):
I can't believe how far you transitioned your life. And
if you can do that, I can do anything. And
that's probably the biggest one on the end of it.
But the police, yeah, police were always give us a
nice little touch up every single time, and we did.
We return served with a nice brick at the time.
And that's just the reality of the conversation. Yeah, straight
(09:56):
through the front window. And you think about in the end,
you got two kids. Maybe that person had a kid
to and maybe we blinded him. I don't know, crazy
for what reason, what purpose? You know, from both sides,
just crazy. So what age did you start to get
more hardcore with your crime? And by the time I
was about fourteen fifteen, and it was more like snatching
(10:19):
money off bank counters at that point in time, and
I just walk in like someone's depositing money or they're
counting up at the end of the day, walk up,
just jump over the top of them, bang run out. Yeah. Yeah.
There's been times where you get tackled out the front
by a police officer or something of that nature. Some
of the boys are on that journey and then you're
getting into the police. Are you doing your own area
(10:41):
or going out of everywhere? You could do it in
another state, you could do that. So you just started
to level up a bit more. And you know, obviously
in another state, no one knew who.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
You were and just yeah, you're making back then, before
you started dropping the.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I have an idea. We got arrested for one on
one day, and on the one day we did eight
bank snatches. So we snatched one here, snatch one just
driving around Sydney in the stolen car. And then they
filmed me on Channel seven and my cousin's cameras, and anyway,
we get done for our served three years. But we
got two hundred and fifty grand that they me and
(11:17):
him just doing that. So you can get fifty off
that one, thirty off that one. You know, just the
pans man. If you see the sachet and it might
you just take a risk. It could be one hundred
and twenty grand in it and there could be checks
in it. So but back then cameras weren't as extensive
as they are. You could run, snatch it, run out,
put your head down and Bob's you uncle was happy days.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Sostly snatching and it wasn't it wasn't actually going in
there to rob the just mostly snatching.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And at that point in time, you know, arm guards
started to become big. And I was a young kid,
impressionable once again looking at those ahead of us in
the game, and you transition from bank snatches into bank
robberies and all of the above.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So we're doing that kind of work. Did you do
any homework for that?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Was absolutely for me. I was a planner. So I
drive the route three o'clock in the morning the night before,
the week before, leading up to a full speed left
turn here. What about if you drive up here? It's
the dead end? Can you get through the dead end?
If you did turn up it, Yeah, you can. You
can go up. They go to hear like I ran
with a backpack filled with let's just say I guessed
(12:21):
the way of a particular amount of money. I'd run
with that backpack, so I knew and I wouldn't run.
I'd sprint with the backpack and then be able to
run after the sprint. And that way I've trained for
the crew we had. We were all super fit and
we're all ready to do what we needed to do.
And did you all trust each other that I had?
That same crew I had for twenty years And as
you know, in that world, very rare to have people
(12:44):
around you for twenty years that had your back. And
to this day I still trust them with my life.
And they kept going. They chose to do that. I
said my best wishes. I'm removing myself. I wish you
were the best. Unfortunately, as we spoke about time and age,
courtup technology, camera in the car, bug in the car,
they'd already done some apparently, and they got busted and
(13:07):
went down for I think a whole bunch.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Of arm would you reckon that was from loose lips
or from maybe showing off from what you we're getting
from people. I don't know because I haven't really spoke.
They currently ad again.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
They've gone in and out five times, so for people
that are known to go through five trials, it's just
an absolute nightmare. And it's just they go back in September.
So still friends with them, I still wish them more
the best. Look, you know, that's not what I choose
to do anymore. But I'm never really you don't ask,
as you know, I don't really get into it, and
I've never been that person. I don't want to know.
(13:40):
And unless you know.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, so when you were doing the bigger hastes, any
weapons used or you just went in there? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Never at that point in time. Nothing. And then when
we went into bank robby, the same thing. Better not
to show anything, and there was never ever a weapon producer.
The only thing we got charge farm robbery, but we
thought it because it was the sledgehammer opened the vault,
so the vault was thick, but in general the volts
all was open even if door shut, just pull it
(14:08):
open and then we'd sledge hammer the actual safe inside
the vault and that was just like a hard and
steal box and you just kin the surprise smash that
open and could be anywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Did you know what the banks had for the vaults
or for the weather safe, So you just get experience.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Over time, they find the right people to give you
the right information and then you're obviously doing that yourself.
Also you will be working with people inside. Now you
could ask ex bank tellers as an example. You could
ask and it could be coming from a night out
on the town, bump in and they go on the
bank teller. That'd be interesting. Is that much in there?
Because they're on it, they'll tell you everything. Yeah, things
(14:47):
and those keys here they will get these stupid arm robbers.
And I'm sitting there going and the same thing happened
to me with Porsche many years ago. We're stealing a
lot of Porsches at the time, and they bring out
this new kill switch and they invited these people in
and I'm part of the that little crew. He has
come in with me. We're getting there. We want to
(15:08):
talk about these fees. They're running the mark. We've put
these kill switches in. They won't find them. They're here
and you've got to press this. And I was like
I was sitting there, did a little day. Now I
was the person and that information obviously just makes things easy.
And you know, as you know, people find out information
even from the police force without people, and it's just
the depth of how far you want to take it.
(15:29):
And for me, I was always someone that was a
higher performer. My father was very much driven to get
the most out of life. So for I was always,
you know, for me, always trying to every little step,
thinking about every little step I could take. Whether I
had I had three hundred bucks in my shoes always
and I'll just leave that, if I had one hundred
pairs of shoes or ten pairs of shoes, I had
(15:50):
three hundred bucks in each of the soles. So whenever
I put one on, I get chased. I got th
rounded bucks in the shoes and didn't have to tap
a card. I had cash on me and it wasn't
a problem and it helped me many a time. So
always singing that one step ahead, and that's why I
sort of ended up getting it. I suppose the reputation
that I did in.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That no one tried to like it takes you to
comment to their gangs to use you, you know, because
you were doing so well with the.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh yeah all the time. So I'd say, we have this,
we have that, and they do a presentation and you
just do a bit of research on people if they
were taking drugs, you know, as you know, like none
of our crew took drugs. I went through that period
in the end where I sort of probably more me
than anyone, and the boys trusted me and kept going
around that I was going up to d C's or
wherever Box Street at the time and partying. But then
(16:37):
I started to get when I got arrested in Melbourne,
I'd been at d C's all night on whatever night,
Saturday night, Sunday. I got home and after the day
club and I was laying in the bath and they
rocked into the house. They're like, what are you doing,
let's get them. We're going to Melbourne. I was like, nah,
may I'm busted. I've been out all weekend. And it
actually got us caught in one sense because I partied
(16:58):
and I kept seeing the same car when we're in Melbourne.
I was saying, boys, I'm seeing the same car. Now
I may get off the rack and r and I
was saying, I'm telling you don't worry about that. Shiit
same car. There's got a bird shit at the back
of the window. And we all laugh about it now
because they were like, we should have listened to it
went out like we wouldn't listen to you. They all
(17:20):
thought I was just paranoid. Youve got to get off
the rag. Anyway, long story short, it did me the
biggest favor ever. Mate. You know, I look back on
it now and the last of the rest. Probably I
hadn't been out long enough. You've got two boys, I've
got a beautiful son at that point in time and daughter,
and you know, I started to build connection with him.
And then six months later, after five year sentence, I
(17:42):
back in and this time I'm on a bank robberie,
the same thing I served sentenced for. So I just
went you know what, you're going to serve something decent
this time. And we were lucky. When we were sledge
hammering the safe, we actually walked out. I said, hey,
keep doing it, I'm going to run out here. There
was a kid crying, so I can leave, and walked
them out of the bank. So they had that on camera.
People witnessed that, and they actually gave us a discount
(18:04):
of sentence book. I was during a bank Probably we
had a heart to be able to let them out.
But it was the best thing that ever happened to me, man,
because enough was enough. You know, my son meant more
to me. At that point, the threshold would come and
serve the sentence got out and just never did your
family know what you were doing at the time when
you were doing all this? Yeah, like father, I think
I believe my father died of a brain tumor, and
(18:26):
I just think that I ran away so young and
then I was in and out of my father's life.
But it just wasn't what he wanted. Yeah, in the end,
when I got arrested in Melbourne, he didn't even know
I was arrested actually, and I was on bail down there.
You get time delay bail, so you can get it
on murder or anything. My cold Ques went up for
baw and I was like, what are you doing, Like
(18:46):
you're not going to get bail. He came back he guys,
I got bail and I was like, what how did
you get bail? And then you know, I was like,
I had this play get bail. You know that that
time delay stands and I said it's his time delay thing.
So I rang my solicitor as they say the same thing.
I was out on BAW and I was lucky enough
he come down and watch me play. I went back
to soccer. I represented the country as soccer as a
(19:08):
young kid. You know, he's got to see me little moments.
The dad was standing next to him and he said, oh,
you're watching your son. He goes, yeah, my son's the
striker today. He goes, oh that's funny. Usually my son's
in the midfielder, but he's the defender today. He'll be
mark and your son and he turned to my daddy goes,
I was going to have a tough day and my
dad goes, now, your son's going to have a tough day.
(19:28):
Sixty minutes in they sub him off and my dad
turns to him. You guys told you, like I say,
like those little moments. You know, I suppose as much
as he died at the time, I was in custody
when he died for that seven year sentence for the
bank robbery down in Melbourne. But those little moments I
always cherish to be able to change you then once
(19:49):
you knew that you were inside, Yeah, I was when
I was going in, Like I knew I was going
to change even before I was going in, when I
was on be I was like, this is how I'm done,
and I started to just we ran a mark, done
a whole heap of crime, got arrested again for other stuff,
and that was it. I was just like enough enough,
made as much money. I was partying every single day
(20:10):
every matter, was driving around pretty much partying while I
was driving around, and just I think I was That
was my way of trying to deal with my emotions,
whether it's depression or whatever it may be. I didn't
never I never ever labeled myself, never worried about that.
Was just like, this will deal with it sweet and
just got loose. And I think it dune me a
(20:31):
favor because I turned me off at all. I was
like Oh, this is just lead me down a bad path.
I don't want that life, man. And as you've seen
and I've seen you know, whether it's in the clubs
and leading to even worse than in the clubs into
an ice addiction or everyone addiction, just terrible, man, So
dumb your favor? I was it like inside for you?
(20:51):
Did you? Was it all right because you knew people inside?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Even when I went as at eighteen, I went in
and the old trick Can I try issues on? Everyone
told me that trick right, and I'll get to the
clinic at Long Bay. Blog goes, can I try his shoes?
And I said, yeah, I got problem if you want
to take him off. He put his head down. He
might have accidentally slipped onto my foot and fell down.
And then I sat there and and then bloke opens up.
(21:17):
He goes what happened? And I said, I think he's sick.
That's why he come up with the clinic. So like
you know the wrap bag in yourself. Anyway, long story short,
we're going back to the unit and the bloke's like
in the unit and come in and he's getting walked
up through the tear at the Long Bay and he's
going your dad Morgan in the morning, this, that, and
I was I was like, it ain't ship myself. I
(21:37):
was like, this bloke hasn't got something, you know, like
thinking I've got to get something that'll make sure I'm
ready for this dude in the morning. And then people
sang which Morgans are, and I said, Jeff Morgan. Two
of my brothers were, and I said, yeah, I'll sing
you in the morning, buddy, you wait to You got
all bravado and he goes, no, no. I was like, no,
(21:58):
it's all good, Morgus. We're sort of brother don't worry
about it, and you know, the rest is history. But
in that moment, before my brothers had spoken up, eighteen
years old kid, I got in there. It was night time,
so the lights were down and it was dim in
that long bit's and old dingy jar. Yeah, you know
this bog saying wait ten in the morning, and I'm like,
here we go. We're going to have to deal with
(22:19):
this lad, and then the rest is history. He's sort
of going to himself with two other boats at the
point in time, and when I got in there, I
got two sort of bikey old looking bokes and I'm like,
oh man, and they're like, where are you from? Mate?
And I'm like, yeah, you're having the conversations and go
I think your brothers. Yes, I said, yeah, they're my
two brothers, and they're like all right, sweat and they
sort of backed off. Who knows what would have happened
(22:40):
if they weren't my two badies. I know that a
lot of other blokes that went through sexually abused, beaten,
whatever it may have been. So I was blessed, you know,
to be able to come from where I come from
and the name that I had or my brothers had otherwise,
and that sort of probably worked out worse off for
me because you had no fear of it. Really, you're
just like whatever, go back in. But did you have
(23:02):
dark moments in there? Yeah? It fell along absolutely, man.
Like there's so many times where you think should I
check out? Who would miss me? No one came visit me.
I didn't have one family member visit me pretty much,
one in like twenty years. Not even some of your boys,
the crews have even on ground on the floe. Oh no,
(23:24):
they came to visit me. So yeah, they definitely came
to visit me. I just didn't have that until the
last sequence of my last I think my father and
that knew I was going to give up. And his
sister he came. I had a wife back then, and
she she was very low, came every weekend. Second time
I got locked up. I was still with it, and
I said, listen, go and do your think. And she's like, oh,
(23:46):
you know, I'll stick by. And I said, enjoy life. Man.
At the time I was twenty seven, I believe, and
I was going enjoy life. Man. I chose this. You
didn't choose this. And if you find someone, I always
look after our kids. But you know, I just do
your thing and I'm not going to put you on
the visitors this You're not come and visit me. And
that was pretty much what I did for that seven years.
(24:08):
And of the seven years she was still around, such
a good little girl. She saying, hey, I'm still here
if you want to sort something now. Started that back
up and the rest of his history. But it was all,
you know, I was so used to it. People knew
who I was. I didn't have a fear of anything.
I never dicked anyone. I was always about how to
(24:28):
me and you make some money, How do I connect
you with that person. I was a great connector as well,
and connect you used by people because of people wanted
to do that, I guarantee, and people wanted to as
you know. And then Robb, you take your and bad
things happen a lot of people that you and I
probably know as and they're not here any longer. And
(24:50):
some of the things that you hear that happen, it's
just crazy. So and that's just all he say around
but in general, it's just I just got to a
point where I mean, you know enough enough, man, The
world was changing, and you look at it now. People
shouldn't each other for just doing crazy stuff, man, and
main streets. The new generation coming through now is nothing
(25:12):
like our generation, man. And it's only a matter of
time before someone in the background gets hit and the
place is going to cut loose. And I think you
always have people that step up and go down that path.
But I just seen it coming. People were ripping peachable off, people,
robbing people. People couldn't make money themselves, so they were
(25:32):
trying to get you in the hotel rooms or places
and spaces, and you just got to be smart, as
you know, be around the right people. And have your
crew and my crew at the time, we're willing to
do whatever it took, and I trusted them and that's
all we needed.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
But how did you leave coming out of inside for
so many years and then thinking I'm going to change
my life around. But then you've got to find legit money,
you know what I mean? That wouldn't been fucking hard.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Crazy Like when I was in, I was training all
the time, super fit, shredded, so I just went on
be a trainer. When I got to I was always
at E too, so I couldn't get out of maximum security.
And they said, man, we've got to give you for
a chance. We're going to give you a chance to
go through this pathway and you can go through works Release.
And I're are you joking And they're like, nah, Like seriously,
(26:19):
We'll let you go through works Release. And when we
got there, they said there's a whole bunch of courses
and there was a personal training of course. At the time,
it just come out and I was like, man, I'd
love to do that, and I was fit and just
made sense. And then I came out the first time
before that, after the five years, I was using the
personal training to smother the money. And then the second
(26:41):
time I came out and said, nah, enough, I'm actually
going to be a trainer. In the process of the
Melbourne sentence, I did a bachelor's of green nutrition science,
so now I was a trainer nutrition is and I
had we trained different in there, and as you know,
you train around the boys that total just you know,
there's no put them on there ten reps, now do
another ten. Yeah, and you're around those types of lads.
(27:04):
It's just a diferent mentality. So business when like these
really quickly. I just embraced myself with that for six years, man,
and the only thing that changed at was my brother
died by seul so and I sort of started to think,
oh wait a second, maybe I shouldn't be in this industry,
Maybe I should be in mental health. And then for
two years I was sort of doing a lot of
talks in schools and then into corporate organizations, aboraginal services,
(27:28):
you name it. And then Sister dies by soul Side
twenty and eighteen, and at that point in time, I've
done seventy nine sixty nine talks and I just worked
out how much I'd made and I went, I can
just do this, and then I started to do the
talks and I walk away think and I got more
to it. So I started to do long term programs
(27:48):
basically is what I scaled it to and built, you know,
as the main source income. So it was it was
a pretty smooth transition, believe it or not. But I
definitely thought about it in there. I said, I can't
go and work for someone because again is real criminal
history check and they're just not going to give me
a job. You've got to do something where you build
it yourself. Fitness was easy. I was fit, loved it,
(28:10):
read every book ready and he's encyclopedia. I was going
to be here.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
How hard was it when they committed suicide? Did you
know that they're going to do it? There was any
It's just out of the blue.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Just crazy man. And I got the message on Facebook,
sorry about your brother, and I was like, what about
my brother? And they're like, oh, contact your family, sort
of the gist of the conversation, and I was like,
what are you talking about, Tommy, tell me, tell me
and then and then I'm trying to ring him no answer,
ring the family and find out when the last time
(28:49):
he spoke to me. Before he did that week. I
think it was probably the day before because he's meant
to get on a flight back to Sydney. We're playing
foot up before club. We got in contracted and he
missed a flight and I said, are you coming? What happened?
And he said, so, you know, I'll get on the
next one. I said, you're going to get on the
next one because I book you on. He goes, I
(29:10):
leave it with me. I've got to do something by Friday,
you can book it, and just never got there. Man,
he missed that flight. That was And when I look
back through his social media, the only thing he ever said,
he fluff is this hard death must be easier. And
our cousin jumped on and said, talk about that. I'll
come and smash you, and they actually had a bit
of a couple of words online. That was the only
(29:33):
thing he ever said. So the rest was all pretty
positive photos of him at events and stuff like that.
So it was just out of the blue. And then
the sister was just left field. Man. No one expected it,
and especially from her. She was so peaceful, so beautiful,
(29:53):
just everyone loved her. I'd party with her when I
was a kid. A lot we were very very close,
so it just yeah, it didn't see him coming, man,
And it just shows you a I look back and
I try and replace sentences I've said in peace and
thought about times together and what they said, and did
(30:13):
they say anything like you try to go back and
replace stuff, but there's nothing really that older said she,
you know, come stay with me. And there was a
period where my sisters did say, can I come stay
with you? And I said, yeah, of course, come and
live with me. But I just thought she wanted to
be around me, and we're training, we're doing things, and
I didn't take anything of it. I was like, look
(30:36):
after yourself or stuff of that nature. But looking back
on it, it is probably her saying, you know, little cry
out for help and unfortunately just hear it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Well in your time before you stop doing all the
robberies and all like that, how much you reckon you
make millions?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Really? Yeah? Millions? Easy? Well probably if you go by
to police documents, not millions. I might be just talking
to that father.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But did you when you when you got the money
and all like that, did you just spledge your partying.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Like I had some good people around me at the time,
And if you know, Eric honey Shad would sort of
point me in the right direction and just around the
old school fellas Victor Camileary and or old school blogs.
But back then when they were all going well, and
then some of them obviously chose a different path and
turned on people and all of the above. But I
(31:38):
had the old crew there, so they'd all talked to
me about Wally Carr and they just say his what
you should do best. And then they put me in
contact with other people old school, like old old school people,
and they ended their legs Abe Fron and like all
that way back when, and it was just a different
I used some of the money well, but a lot
(32:00):
of it just went on buying clothes, impressing people and
just bullshit, you know, like no, no, and what are
you even doing for? What were you? Like? I look
back when I look at it, I go, what do
you what do you do it for? Just stupid? I
think a lot of it was, do not think I
know it was validation that I didn't get from my parents.
So now that I'm the poorstry if I'm the bank
(32:21):
rob on the whatever around, Jeff more than this, Jeff,
more than that. That was how I felt good about myself.
I know, it's just crazy. And when I finally paused
to think about I was like, fuck man, please, and
everybody else unconsciously fuck this. I'm out, you know. Years
later and I'm done. And even my crew they were
like when they got arrested, I wish ad your strength,
(32:44):
and I think that sense was nineteen years was seven
years on the bottom. Crazy. So if they go back
in they got I'm pretty sure they got twelve years
to go. Yeah, it's crazy. I've caught up with them
and they've said, I just wish I had your strength,
and I just wouldn't be going through this court money
(33:05):
at this time of life. Only come fifty two this year,
and I'm just thinking to myself, if I get done again, now,
say it was to anything, whether it's important, whether it's
a bank robbery or armor guards, which you couldn't do
these days. Anyway, you're going to serve ten years. I'm
going to die in there, and I've seen many die
and I went, I don't want to die here. So
(33:26):
there's more life than this place.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
If you could look back on any job that you did,
which one would stand out?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh, probably that you're proud of you.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, like, I know it's hard to say you're
proud of doing this, but the thing is that you go, fuck,
that was a good job.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But the reality is we're on a podcast and we
give them context to people. I'd definitely say the one
in Melbourne that we're arrested for because police watched us.
And in the end, I just said to him, I
know we're being watched and we're going to do something.
Just trust me. So I went unlocked at this other
bank and I said, yeah, here, and I'm pointing there
and I said, and they're like, what if, what's this about?
(34:03):
Just roll with me? Yeah, this that, And I wasn't
even saying anything really, I was like, yeah, you know,
points of things. Anyway, they set up at that bank,
dog squad helicopter or the SAgs in Melbourne and they
were all waiting for us at that bank and surveillance
were following us. I said, we're going to lose them
at some point in time and we'll go to the
other bank. So we did a little maneuver on him,
(34:23):
lost them, and then sure enough they went to that
other bank and they're saying they're not here, they're not here,
and then the arm went off in the bank at
Blackburn in Victoria. When we came out of bank, surveillance
was already there. The police were out the front, and
I come out and did this. Bloke had driven up
the gut and put his car at the front of
the bank to try and block the doors. So I
(34:44):
come out and I just did the jump up on
his bottom slide across.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
It.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Felt like I was duke literally, even because they jumped
up and ran across it. I just slid across it
and then just jumped in the car and took off.
We got chased by the motorbike cop who was undercover,
and then we wound up and them got away with it,
and we were technically we wouldn't have got away because
they knew who we were and we're going to get arrested,
(35:11):
but we got away with the money. And I just think,
you know, to be watched by the police Robert Bank
and still get away unbelievable and not get shot dead,
you know, even that on the back end of it,
And what made you do Melbourne, I don't even remember.
I came from d C, so I was a white,
(35:31):
pale like and I was like and they got just
sleep in the back of Taraga and I was like, oh, man,
I couldn't be and they're like, sleep away, you'll be
fresh to the big And then we got down there
on the Monday and we planned all week so just
so you know them. And then we as we were
driving to the bank and we're about I said, we've
got to lose this. He said, we're going to do it,
(35:53):
and we worked out a way to do it. Yeah. Anyway,
long story short, my cold turning to guys, do you
know the date today? And I said, thank you, thank you,
fuck And he's like, man, it's Friday at the third
D and it doesn't mean nothing to me. I said,
means they don't going to get more money or something
like that. Yeah, And when we're sitting in the cells,
I said, Friday the thirteenth, When did you say that?
(36:16):
What did you bring it up for? All this? But
may they knew these robberies have been happening all across
the country and they were trying to catch what they
called the sledge hammer crew. They believe we would have
sledge hammer crew. Well what happened was the car got
seen at the front of the hotel and BMW M
five at the time. The latest one seen at the
front of the hotel. The boys were meant to park it.
(36:39):
They went down and sort of went to the hotel
and said what do you want to park it? And
the copp has seen him. It was funny because they've
done a U turn. They'd done a U turn and
then they kept doing this city YouTube and I was like,
what are you doing in the toarago behind and watching
it coming down to it. They're just doing these circles
like this. And then they took what he's doing. And
then they found the hotel because they said, oh, he's
(37:00):
any Sydney they'd staying in the hotel here. They said,
only one bloke this spoke is. They gave our names
and I said, none of those any Sydney bokes. I
just spoke here, have a little fake license. And they
just said ran it and said mate, that's the crew
and put the balance on us for that whole week
one the surveillance and you still went through the job.
(37:23):
And I told him, wend a surveillance, we should pull
the plug. We'll just get done for the car. And
what do you get for a car? Six months? Twelve
months maybe? And I said, like just pull a bug.
Biggest thing out of that. Probably I was glad that
we didn't, because if I didn't and I did the
twelve months or six months in Melbourne, I would have
kept going and maybe, you know, you do a big
(37:43):
job and I end up dead, or end up serving
fifteen twenty years, maybe someone else ends up there or
something of that nature. So it sort of worked out.
I worked out in my favor in a weird way,
and I'm forever, it sounds crazy, forever grateful for being
arrested down in a different system. Gave you a chance
to rehabilitate. Put us in the cottages, study the UNI degree,
(38:06):
and I think it was just that time, you know,
hit a threshold, where do you want to I was
in the slot. I had a mobile phone. I was
going to troll the boys pull it out during lunch
and I was in a beautiful spot. I dug out
the actual window sill, made this little key. You would
never found it. They searched uself. They go, we know
you've got a phone. I couldn't find it. They pull
(38:28):
it out at lunch, put it in the butter in
a plastic bag. They come in and they hit the
butter and may it done. I come back from court
and they got more than this way and I said,
that's the slot on over there, and he goes, yeah,
you go on to the slot, mate, found a phone
in yourself and I was like, oh, anyway, you take
the rap three months in there and you know, on
(38:48):
the back of it, I just it was all coming together.
I got on the truck coming back. We were built tough, man,
but I just broke down crying. I don't even I
just don't even know. I just had enough and I
was like, my kids without me, is this the life
you want? Yeah? And I cried pretty much all the
way back from Melbourne City to Port Phillip, which is
(39:10):
about good solid twenty minutes. And then I get off
the track and they're like into the slot and I'm like,
probably need the rest anyone laying there? And then four
wars nothing there, and it just you start thinking, you know,
everything matter. I could picture girls from the club back
in the day, what dresses they were wearing. I wonder
what that girl's name was. Asked, yeah, seem he might know.
(39:33):
Like do you think stupid shit?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Man?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
And there's just low level and I was like, do
you want to keep operating from this level. Or do
you want to do something with your life? Fifth night,
there's your way out. Do you want to check out?
And you go out to the yard for an hour
a day and I look up at the bars. I
could do something there. I just jump up and bang,
jump off it. Yeah. You go through these little thought
processes and or do you want to get shroughty sentence,
(39:56):
come out and do something with your life? Which one?
Choose one? And then I just went enough enough man
and walk out of the slot, bump into UNI actually
goes you want to do a university degree? Mate? You
look like a smart chap. And I was like, mate,
you know it, and it gives a look. The rest
was history. I sort of started that pathway and just
was different in I talked to all the boys still,
(40:18):
but just not on the level of mogs want to
cook up when we get out and I'll connect you
and a lot of those boys down there, like I see,
and then they've been, you know, went through all that
stuff that where people aren't here any longer. A lot
of blokes we know, you know they're in there. I'm
probably looking at life for twenty years now at my age,
same thing and just crazy. I just think I was
(40:39):
on that cusp of do you keep going and serve
twenty years end up dead or do you move on
in life? And what's the biggest regret my kids? Definitely
my kids, you know, just not connecting with my kids.
Always hard man like to this day, I don't have
I don't have a relationship with my son, my daughter,
(41:00):
same on and off with my daughter and then my
youngest daughter. I've got a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Why do you think you haven't got the relationship with
your son? Do you think it's is rebelled? Oh no,
just things. At the time, we were respectful.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
So the wife had cheated at the time, and we
made a decision not telling that and just said we
grew apart. And then when I had a partner eighteen
months lad, he said, I knew it was all about
you had a partner and didn't you That's what happened.
And then she told him and she was she was
a great partner. She's a great person, great human. Just
made a bad choice. We're not bad people, just make
(41:33):
bad choices. We don't have bad days, we just have
bad moments. And for her, she come out and told
him and said oh, you know your dad was right
in leaving. I don't and he's like, don't lie. You
know you're saying it because you're trying to stick up
for him. But by that stage it was embedded in
him that that's what happened, and just never looked back. Then.
(41:54):
There was a couple other things how he saw it.
Me again locked not caring, which is fair enough. You
didn't care about me, Why should I care about you?
So I keep sending Texas man, and you just hope
that one day comes around man and something happens and
they realize and I've done my best to be a
better human and definitely try and be a bet twenty eight.
(42:15):
Now what's it? What's he doing for them? Commerce with
Westpac as far as I know, but ideas they probably
kick him out if they hear that. Sorry, don't get
kicked out. But nah, I didn't. And I'm proud of him, mate.
He was ducks of his school and it shows you
(42:35):
like he had the support from me and his mum
as much as I could when I was there help
him study, red did what I could. He was duck
of his school and he was right up there in
that plan. I think number one in the state around
that plan, and to hear that shows you that if
I had the right support when I was younger, or
it takes is how you program somebody. Unfortunately I was
(42:55):
programmed that way, but I've come good and you know,
give him back as much as I possibly can, whether
it's at a kid level, whether it's at a juvenile
justice corrections, whether it's a corporate athletes national framework. Obviously,
now we're business and what we do to be able
to help people structure their lives or their businesses to
get really high performances. Just like our bank robbery crew
(43:17):
in the end, As you know, police didn't respect many people,
but I know that they bashed the shit out of
every arm robber that they got doing an armed robbery
or something. When we got arrested, they just took us
in the custody and it was like, you operate at
a different level. And I think the kid thing, helping
the kid out of the bank, They're like, you know,
they're not that bad. We weren't bad. People were just
(43:38):
built bad, and that's you know, eventually it comes around
and you sort of have that realization there's a better
way to life. Yeah, if you haven't got like that.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
You've said, regrets is your kids, But is there anything
you would change in them years do differently than what
you did. Maybe if there's a bank robber that you did,
be a a job that you didn't do right, you
could have done it better.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
There's a lot of when you sometimes like just things
happened the door. I'll say, like I can say these
stories about what I heard, which could be just here
say you know, but in general, you imagine sledgehammering and
the vaults actually so full you can't even get the
movement you need to stuff for that nature or things
(44:22):
that bends, and you can see the money, but you
just can't get the door open in time, and police
are close by, and people have had to leave and
stuff with that nature. And as much as people might
I want to hear this, the reality is there was
just such a feeling the moment to the point you
got to think, if please pull up, you could run
out and get a bullet to the head. And you're
not even thinking about that. You're just singing about the
(44:42):
moment of the bank robbery. And I think to be
in a crew that was well respected within the criminal
world based around what we did, and even being a connector,
I connected a lot of people for different reasons and
made a lot of money there as well. And you
look back and you think if I could have done
you know, I always looked at other things. You look
at things that happen overseas, big armor guarde heist or
(45:05):
she didn't try and go obviouselyas to do his job. Yeah, yeah,
I just probably yeah, overseas. I remember being in I
was in Germany and I still remember, and the lady goes,
can you mind the shop? Can you mind the shop?
She said, can you mind the shop? She has I'll
be back in five minutes. I'm so hungry, And I
was like, like the back, open the safe. That was
(45:29):
the old searching days, like searching and distract the shop,
keep it, go out, open the vault safe and take
the money locker back up, put the keys back in
their bag. And they wouldn't even know until the end
of the day. And I'm sitting there going should I should?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Nah?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You know, I don't want to be locked up doing
it during the German winter.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I mean on.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Holidays, let's not make it a longer holiday. But like
just I think Sydney was enough and the one Melbourne
job was enough and the rest were as I said, Yeah,
whoever that the crew obviously surge Ham crew. Yeah, they
had this dotted map and they've done a lot of
robberies and I suppose you look back on just things
(46:10):
that could have gone right or better for that crew,
and no doubt they would have made a lot more money.
And you always see movies like Heat back in the day.
I don't know if you ever watched Heat sorts of
movies and you thought about the armor depots or stuff
of that nature. Anyway, people that aren't even bank robbers,
I armed robbers would think about stuff like that. I've
(46:31):
been on other podcasts and like I've always thought about
whether I could rob a bank and talking of that nature.
But it's a lot of planning. Yeah, a lot of
people did it off the cusps. I know you spoke
to Russell Manton at one point in time, and I
think Russe and It would have done it different too.
Not many did it the way we did it we planned.
But he wasn't really a big bank robber. Morey drugs running,
(46:56):
grab some money from the cashra just like the counters,
and run off from there. But in general, what we
learned a lot of people started to dad, and by
that stage they started obviously turned down the opportunity cameras
screens coming up. People were caught in the screens. Police
were using different tactics and catching a lot of people
out your water, saying these clothes out of the house,
(47:19):
and then they get you in the bank robbery with
the same clothes. So they take your photos there, let
you go for the day, and if you showed up,
I got charge with that. And for me, they said,
I only got off the charge because i'd say black
pants on, I said horizontal stripes and they were vertical
stripes in his thing. He said, well, this folk's got
(47:40):
vertical stripes. You wrote horizontal stripes and you don't have
a photo of him, but you w rt out what
he was wearing. And I got off that charge. So
it was yeah, crazy, Well, just a crazy life. Describe
yourself in one word. Adventurous, adventurous, fuck crazy. Probably i'd
(48:05):
say crazy, limitless, like there's a yes someone you know,
a hundred people that know me that, and you'd probably
get a hundred different I'd.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Say crazy suits you, Yeah, you have to be crazy
to be crazy to do what you've done and then
like you know, as you know, like back in the day,
all the boys, yourself, like anyone, you mess around and
you find out.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Even when I first met H, I was with another
bloke and I was talking to a girl and he's like,
who's this And I was like, what you got a problem?
And we're up the road. What was boss? And then
I'm yeah, So just things like that. You had no
fear and I was I'm not the biggest bloke. I'm
one hundred and seventy three CENTI made his tall man
(48:44):
five seven, I'm small. But it was crazy because I
had no fear, had the heart and do whatever talk man,
and I was willing to go to the end. So
you get that mentality. As you know, it's just different,
different beasts, so I'd say crazy. I want to say
thank you for coming on, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
It's very an interesting story mate, And then I'm a
pretty shiate you coming on to sharing that with me.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Man. I appreciate you having me and all the best
with your podcast. Must appreciate it by thanks Man
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Mm HM
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the
Muscle comments and in this episode I speak with Jeff Morgan,
a former bank Robert in Sydney's Underworld turned motivational speaker.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Ran out on the street to Sydney and that the
chaos that already learned became who I become. And by
twelve I was locked up and I just walk in
like someone's depositing money. Just jump over the top of him,
bang run out. On the one day we did eight
bank snatches. We've got two one hundred and fifty grand.
That day, I'll get to the clinic at Long bayfogoes.
Can I try his shoes? And I said, yeah, good,
(00:42):
any problem? He put his head down. He might have
accidentally slipped onto my foot and fell down. We weren't bad,
people were just built bad. Eventually it comes around and
you sort of have that realization and there's a better
way to life. All right, let's get this on the way.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
What we'll do is we'll talk about you growing up
first in Redford and how you got into all the
nice stuff that you did in your life, and so
explaining you know, there's just gonna be a brief thing
above growing up in Red Fern and what you did
from schooling to your first job, and then what got
you into crime.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I think the first thing growing up on the block
Everly Street, red from four streets and in amongst that
was dysfunctioned, destruction, chaos, everything that society frowns upon. That
was a normal part of how we grew up and
I become a byproduct of that environment. For me, going
to red from primary school just up the road, filled
with original kids. Our greatest goal was to be the
(01:39):
best criminal, to be the best money maker, sleep with
the most women. And that was probably the biggest goals
we had growing up as a young kid from the
age of ten. So I'm seeing my uncle's the community,
I'm thinking, how good is this life? Man? I just
I can't wait to get to where they got to
and how do I make this money? And for me
it was just you going. It was so diverse. You
(02:00):
go back to the block, hected, crazy, everyone punching on
the life of just I don't even know how to
just just pure chaos. And then you go to school
and all of a sudden it would calm down for
a moment and you'd have to try and not swear
at school, You'd have to try and act normal at school.
You just put on this mask, you know, the bank
robber master that eventually became my life. I suppose in
(02:23):
between those two worlds and twelve years of age, father
was just physically abusive every single day and I just
had enough and said see that, I'm out of here,
hung jump out the window, legged it. And I don't
think he was abusive towards you. I believe it was disciplined.
He's way of the old school way was give you
an upper cut, or give you a bit of a
slap or touch up or whatever you may call it.
(02:45):
And that was just a normal way of life back then,
and that's how he was trying to instill discipline in me.
And I look back on it now and I understand that.
But when a year young kid at ten years I
want my dad to love me, Yeah, it was just
a disconnection, ran out on the streets to Sydney, and
that chaos that already learned became who I become. And
twelve I was locked up, twelve years old, twelve years
(03:09):
breaking en up in Newcastle. So saying we'd already started searching,
breaking in the shops and just up the roading in
High Park borrows and chips from a cannae and found
a whole heap of money and sort of just went well,
if it's in one shop, I must be in every shop,
and started traveling around the whole country. Company were just
whether they were doing this. I think there was four
(03:29):
of us that got arrested that day. I think the
counter of the police station. So there were three of
us and I said the doors open, he's coming with me,
or you're not. And that didn't last too long. I
got out on the streets, was one got arrested somewhere
down the track pretty quickly, and the rest was history.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So you know, when you were growing up in Red Ferns,
do you think the older generation, because you said you
looked up to some of them, Yeah, absolutely, did they
try and entice you to do what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh I suppose, like you know, as you get older,
you can go into drug dealing, you can go into
bake robberies, you can go into all these crazy things.
I think they just more so did it, and we
just wanted to be like them, and that was it.
That's how you made money. Whereas everyone would be like,
get a job doing being an engineered doctor or some
form of the employment. That was our employment. So I'm
(04:15):
just looking at you, going, oh, he's making heaps of money.
Look how he dresses, he's got all the girls around him,
he's driving this nice flash car. I'm going to do that.
That's what you want to do. And you sort of
got the choose your pathway, and it's pretty crazy. You're
looking at your pathways. Do you want to be a
drug dealer or maybe it doesn't sit well with yourself,
or are you going to be a bank rower? Are
you all to be violent? And people love punching on
(04:36):
and would get themselves locked up over that, and it's
just yeah, yeah, So when you came up as well,
what what happened then?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Did you just did you feel like when you went inside,
did you feel like you made a name for yourself
when you come back out.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think at that point in time, probably I was
too young. I didn't have the name that I had eventually,
but I think it was just more like the name
was Redfern, every street Red Fernd, the block was very
well known, So I just piggyback that, you know, And
then you'd see something, you know, what's happening, bro, and
you bump into somebody and all of a suddenly, ah,
he's with the red from boys. And that was it.
(05:11):
So we had such a name within the jail system
that made it easy for myself and by the time
I come out instead of being fear for But you
got to remember, I was abused by my father. I
wasn't getting food at home, so I had three square meals,
a nice roof over my head. I was around the boys.
It was sort of not a bad thing. It was
like almost a holiday. They had swimming pool with all
(05:31):
the boys like that. Who you hunger around with. They
abused by their fathers, I'd say a lot of them, Yeah, definitely, absolutely,
Like a lot of them would have went through what
I went through, and it was just a normal way
of growing up. You know, you get slapped by your
uncle as a kid, especially in our community. It was
about making you tough and some of the stuff. You know,
blokes like yourself. You see blokes like that people be
scared of. Well, I had no fear and where's other
(05:54):
people be? Like, I'm not going on a footy field
with this mom. God, I'd run at this I was
like pass the ball here, I'll show you how to
do it. And it was just that mentality growing up
in that area, having no fear around anything at all.
It was either you went through crime or sports to
get out of there.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Absolutely, And we had a couple of that went through
and they did well in sport. Anthony Mundine he lived
outside the area, but he'd always come in. And Brendan
Williams was another kid who lived on the block. He
did well through Ramriick Rugby Union, signed a contract over
in Italy, played for Australia years. But he had a
family who practiced culture and they were a good working,
hard working family. The rest of it, you know, it
(06:30):
was just you made money off the streets, so we're
just monkey see monkey doing.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You never went to no schooling from I was going
to school at the time. Yeah, but even though you're
traveling up to Newcastle to do Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And when I say that, it was like on and off,
you know, like you go some days, you wouldn't go.
Some days. When I ran away from home, that was it.
The schooling was off. Then I'd come back, I'd get
locked up, get bailed at my father's house, so I'd
do school for a period of time. You look back
on it now, a few hours. For three months. That
was a long long stint to be out for. I
just don't think that I. Outside of that, I was
(07:05):
and going to school, and I'd only go to school
to make sure maybe when I got sentence, I got
a reduced sentence or got off that sentence. Other than that,
it wasn't something It's something I liked, but probably that's
how it sort of panned out. Every time I got bail,
I was doing it for three months, two months, six months.
I don't think I lasted probably six months, you know,
for more than twice. To be honest with you, back then,
(07:28):
you didn't have respect for the law. Back then, you
just and they were bashonists, Aboriginal people just gone through
what they'd gone through, and they you know, there was
this black white thing. I wasn't really into that, to
be honest with it. I was like, you know, why,
how do we get better out of this? And there
was a bloke named Charlie Perkins who pulled me up
in a case. So you think that brick carries a
message that you throwed every police car? And I was like, yeah,
(07:49):
we shown who's boss aunt. I was young, and he
was doing all this activism to actually get Aboriginal people
on the map in a good way. And he said, mane,
you got so much. Everyone follows you. Use it the
right way and do it the right way. Go and
get things put into parliament or in this country where
our people can live a better life but also a
strange you can just merge together. It's changed, you know.
(08:09):
Don't try and get caught up in all that bullshit.
And I think that for me was very powerful. I
was probably fourteen at the time. Him recognizing me even
though he was the legend of our community, and then
having that conversation started to flip me. I was like,
you know what, I have got more. Let's start to
flip this a bit. And I started to look at
things walking up the lame way, people shooting up, you know,
(08:30):
people smoking cones in front of their kids, kids crawling
and grounding glasses, normal people punching on them. We're all
cheering on yeah, smashing bad You know that was your
mate five minutes ago. Now you're telling him to smash him.
And then you're shaking hands and having a drink or something.
After I was like, what is it? This can't be culture, man.
So it was just a combination of that realization, you know,
(08:51):
this isn't culture, this isn't respect. We're getting caught up
in the wrong things. And the wrong things were even
the police, you know, years later, if I did the
right thing, they're not kicking my door in. But I
was just doing the wrong thing at the time. My
best wishes if I And what was it about? You know,
that was the biggest thing. What are you doing? I
was making money? Was it about making money? Or could
(09:12):
you do it the legitimate way and have no one
kick you do unless you don't pay your tax? So yeah,
easy money, let's transition over and that's all I did.
I end up saying enoughs enough, man, I want more
and definitely want to inspire my community too more. And
then I realized it wasn't just my communities. Everyone you
can you know, I became so many friends through the
nightclub scene or whatever it might have been, people like, man,
(09:35):
I can't believe how far you transitioned your life. And
if you can do that, I can do anything. And
that's probably the biggest one on the end of it.
But the police, yeah, police were always give us a
nice little touch up every single time, and we did.
We return served with a nice brick at the time.
And that's just the reality of the conversation. Yeah, straight
(09:56):
through the front window. And you think about in the end,
you got two kids. Maybe that person had a kid
to and maybe we blinded him. I don't know, crazy
for what reason, what purpose? You know, from both sides,
just crazy. So what age did you start to get
more hardcore with your crime? And by the time I
was about fourteen fifteen, and it was more like snatching
(10:19):
money off bank counters at that point in time, and
I just walk in like someone's depositing money or they're
counting up at the end of the day, walk up,
just jump over the top of them, bang run out. Yeah. Yeah.
There's been times where you get tackled out the front
by a police officer or something of that nature. Some
of the boys are on that journey and then you're
getting into the police. Are you doing your own area
(10:41):
or going out of everywhere? You could do it in
another state, you could do that. So you just started
to level up a bit more. And you know, obviously
in another state, no one knew who.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
You were and just yeah, you're making back then, before
you started dropping the.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I have an idea. We got arrested for one on
one day, and on the one day we did eight
bank snatches. So we snatched one here, snatch one just
driving around Sydney in the stolen car. And then they
filmed me on Channel seven and my cousin's cameras, and anyway,
we get done for our served three years. But we
got two hundred and fifty grand that they me and
(11:17):
him just doing that. So you can get fifty off
that one, thirty off that one. You know, just the
pans man. If you see the sachet and it might
you just take a risk. It could be one hundred
and twenty grand in it and there could be checks
in it. So but back then cameras weren't as extensive
as they are. You could run, snatch it, run out,
put your head down and Bob's you uncle was happy days.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Sostly snatching and it wasn't it wasn't actually going in
there to rob the just mostly snatching.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And at that point in time, you know, arm guards
started to become big. And I was a young kid,
impressionable once again looking at those ahead of us in
the game, and you transition from bank snatches into bank
robberies and all of the above.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So we're doing that kind of work. Did you do
any homework for that?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Was absolutely for me. I was a planner. So I
drive the route three o'clock in the morning the night before,
the week before, leading up to a full speed left
turn here. What about if you drive up here? It's
the dead end? Can you get through the dead end?
If you did turn up it, Yeah, you can. You
can go up. They go to hear like I ran
with a backpack filled with let's just say I guessed
(12:21):
the way of a particular amount of money. I'd run
with that backpack, so I knew and I wouldn't run.
I'd sprint with the backpack and then be able to
run after the sprint. And that way I've trained for
the crew we had. We were all super fit and
we're all ready to do what we needed to do.
And did you all trust each other that I had?
That same crew I had for twenty years And as
you know, in that world, very rare to have people
(12:44):
around you for twenty years that had your back. And
to this day I still trust them with my life.
And they kept going. They chose to do that. I
said my best wishes. I'm removing myself. I wish you
were the best. Unfortunately, as we spoke about time and age,
courtup technology, camera in the car, bug in the car,
they'd already done some apparently, and they got busted and
(13:07):
went down for I think a whole bunch.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Of arm would you reckon that was from loose lips
or from maybe showing off from what you we're getting
from people. I don't know because I haven't really spoke.
They currently ad again.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
They've gone in and out five times, so for people
that are known to go through five trials, it's just
an absolute nightmare. And it's just they go back in September.
So still friends with them, I still wish them more
the best. Look, you know, that's not what I choose
to do anymore. But I'm never really you don't ask,
as you know, I don't really get into it, and
I've never been that person. I don't want to know.
(13:40):
And unless you know.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, so when you were doing the bigger hastes, any
weapons used or you just went in there? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Never at that point in time. Nothing. And then when
we went into bank robby, the same thing. Better not
to show anything, and there was never ever a weapon producer.
The only thing we got charge farm robbery, but we
thought it because it was the sledgehammer opened the vault,
so the vault was thick, but in general the volts
all was open even if door shut, just pull it
(14:08):
open and then we'd sledge hammer the actual safe inside
the vault and that was just like a hard and
steal box and you just kin the surprise smash that
open and could be anywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Did you know what the banks had for the vaults
or for the weather safe, So you just get experience.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Over time, they find the right people to give you
the right information and then you're obviously doing that yourself.
Also you will be working with people inside. Now you
could ask ex bank tellers as an example. You could
ask and it could be coming from a night out
on the town, bump in and they go on the
bank teller. That'd be interesting. Is that much in there?
Because they're on it, they'll tell you everything. Yeah, things
(14:47):
and those keys here they will get these stupid arm robbers.
And I'm sitting there going and the same thing happened
to me with Porsche many years ago. We're stealing a
lot of Porsches at the time, and they bring out
this new kill switch and they invited these people in
and I'm part of the that little crew. He has
come in with me. We're getting there. We want to
(15:08):
talk about these fees. They're running the mark. We've put
these kill switches in. They won't find them. They're here
and you've got to press this. And I was like
I was sitting there, did a little day. Now I
was the person and that information obviously just makes things easy.
And you know, as you know, people find out information
even from the police force without people, and it's just
the depth of how far you want to take it.
(15:29):
And for me, I was always someone that was a
higher performer. My father was very much driven to get
the most out of life. So for I was always,
you know, for me, always trying to every little step,
thinking about every little step I could take. Whether I
had I had three hundred bucks in my shoes always
and I'll just leave that, if I had one hundred
pairs of shoes or ten pairs of shoes, I had
(15:50):
three hundred bucks in each of the soles. So whenever
I put one on, I get chased. I got th
rounded bucks in the shoes and didn't have to tap
a card. I had cash on me and it wasn't
a problem and it helped me many a time. So
always singing that one step ahead, and that's why I
sort of ended up getting it. I suppose the reputation
that I did in.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That no one tried to like it takes you to
comment to their gangs to use you, you know, because
you were doing so well with the.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh yeah all the time. So I'd say, we have this,
we have that, and they do a presentation and you
just do a bit of research on people if they
were taking drugs, you know, as you know, like none
of our crew took drugs. I went through that period
in the end where I sort of probably more me
than anyone, and the boys trusted me and kept going
around that I was going up to d C's or
wherever Box Street at the time and partying. But then
(16:37):
I started to get when I got arrested in Melbourne,
I'd been at d C's all night on whatever night,
Saturday night, Sunday. I got home and after the day
club and I was laying in the bath and they
rocked into the house. They're like, what are you doing,
let's get them. We're going to Melbourne. I was like, nah,
may I'm busted. I've been out all weekend. And it
actually got us caught in one sense because I partied
(16:58):
and I kept seeing the same car when we're in Melbourne.
I was saying, boys, I'm seeing the same car. Now
I may get off the rack and r and I
was saying, I'm telling you don't worry about that. Shiit
same car. There's got a bird shit at the back
of the window. And we all laugh about it now
because they were like, we should have listened to it
went out like we wouldn't listen to you. They all
(17:20):
thought I was just paranoid. Youve got to get off
the rag. Anyway, long story short, it did me the
biggest favor ever. Mate. You know, I look back on
it now and the last of the rest. Probably I
hadn't been out long enough. You've got two boys, I've
got a beautiful son at that point in time and daughter,
and you know, I started to build connection with him.
And then six months later, after five year sentence, I
(17:42):
back in and this time I'm on a bank robberie,
the same thing I served sentenced for. So I just
went you know what, you're going to serve something decent
this time. And we were lucky. When we were sledge
hammering the safe, we actually walked out. I said, hey,
keep doing it, I'm going to run out here. There
was a kid crying, so I can leave, and walked
them out of the bank. So they had that on camera.
People witnessed that, and they actually gave us a discount
(18:04):
of sentence book. I was during a bank Probably we
had a heart to be able to let them out.
But it was the best thing that ever happened to me, man,
because enough was enough. You know, my son meant more
to me. At that point, the threshold would come and
serve the sentence got out and just never did your
family know what you were doing at the time when
you were doing all this? Yeah, like father, I think
I believe my father died of a brain tumor, and
(18:26):
I just think that I ran away so young and
then I was in and out of my father's life.
But it just wasn't what he wanted. Yeah, in the end,
when I got arrested in Melbourne, he didn't even know
I was arrested actually, and I was on bail down there.
You get time delay bail, so you can get it
on murder or anything. My cold Ques went up for
baw and I was like, what are you doing, Like
(18:46):
you're not going to get bail. He came back he guys,
I got bail and I was like, what how did
you get bail? And then you know, I was like,
I had this play get bail. You know that that
time delay stands and I said it's his time delay thing.
So I rang my solicitor as they say the same thing.
I was out on BAW and I was lucky enough
he come down and watch me play. I went back
to soccer. I represented the country as soccer as a
(19:08):
young kid. You know, he's got to see me little moments.
The dad was standing next to him and he said, oh,
you're watching your son. He goes, yeah, my son's the
striker today. He goes, oh that's funny. Usually my son's
in the midfielder, but he's the defender today. He'll be
mark and your son and he turned to my daddy goes,
I was going to have a tough day and my
dad goes, now, your son's going to have a tough day.
(19:28):
Sixty minutes in they sub him off and my dad
turns to him. You guys told you, like I say,
like those little moments. You know, I suppose as much
as he died at the time, I was in custody
when he died for that seven year sentence for the
bank robbery down in Melbourne. But those little moments I
always cherish to be able to change you then once
(19:49):
you knew that you were inside, Yeah, I was when
I was going in, Like I knew I was going
to change even before I was going in, when I
was on be I was like, this is how I'm done,
and I started to just we ran a mark, done
a whole heap of crime, got arrested again for other stuff,
and that was it. I was just like enough enough,
made as much money. I was partying every single day
(20:10):
every matter, was driving around pretty much partying while I
was driving around, and just I think I was That
was my way of trying to deal with my emotions,
whether it's depression or whatever it may be. I didn't
never I never ever labeled myself, never worried about that.
Was just like, this will deal with it sweet and
just got loose. And I think it dune me a
(20:31):
favor because I turned me off at all. I was
like Oh, this is just lead me down a bad path.
I don't want that life, man. And as you've seen
and I've seen you know, whether it's in the clubs
and leading to even worse than in the clubs into
an ice addiction or everyone addiction, just terrible, man, So
dumb your favor? I was it like inside for you?
(20:51):
Did you? Was it all right because you knew people inside?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Even when I went as at eighteen, I went in
and the old trick Can I try issues on? Everyone
told me that trick right, and I'll get to the
clinic at Long Bay. Blog goes, can I try his shoes?
And I said, yeah, I got problem if you want
to take him off. He put his head down. He
might have accidentally slipped onto my foot and fell down.
And then I sat there and and then bloke opens up.
(21:17):
He goes what happened? And I said, I think he's sick.
That's why he come up with the clinic. So like
you know the wrap bag in yourself. Anyway, long story short,
we're going back to the unit and the bloke's like
in the unit and come in and he's getting walked
up through the tear at the Long Bay and he's
going your dad Morgan in the morning, this, that, and
I was I was like, it ain't ship myself. I
(21:37):
was like, this bloke hasn't got something, you know, like
thinking I've got to get something that'll make sure I'm
ready for this dude in the morning. And then people
sang which Morgans are, and I said, Jeff Morgan. Two
of my brothers were, and I said, yeah, I'll sing
you in the morning, buddy, you wait to You got
all bravado and he goes, no, no. I was like, no,
(21:58):
it's all good, Morgus. We're sort of brother don't worry
about it, and you know, the rest is history. But
in that moment, before my brothers had spoken up, eighteen
years old kid, I got in there. It was night time,
so the lights were down and it was dim in
that long bit's and old dingy jar. Yeah, you know
this bog saying wait ten in the morning, and I'm like,
here we go. We're going to have to deal with
(22:19):
this lad, and then the rest is history. He's sort
of going to himself with two other boats at the
point in time, and when I got in there, I
got two sort of bikey old looking bokes and I'm like,
oh man, and they're like, where are you from? Mate?
And I'm like, yeah, you're having the conversations and go
I think your brothers. Yes, I said, yeah, they're my
two brothers, and they're like all right, sweat and they
sort of backed off. Who knows what would have happened
(22:40):
if they weren't my two badies. I know that a
lot of other blokes that went through sexually abused, beaten,
whatever it may have been. So I was blessed, you know,
to be able to come from where I come from
and the name that I had or my brothers had otherwise,
and that sort of probably worked out worse off for
me because you had no fear of it. Really, you're
just like whatever, go back in. But did you have
(23:02):
dark moments in there? Yeah? It fell along absolutely, man.
Like there's so many times where you think should I
check out? Who would miss me? No one came visit me.
I didn't have one family member visit me pretty much,
one in like twenty years. Not even some of your boys,
the crews have even on ground on the floe. Oh no,
(23:24):
they came to visit me. So yeah, they definitely came
to visit me. I just didn't have that until the
last sequence of my last I think my father and
that knew I was going to give up. And his
sister he came. I had a wife back then, and
she she was very low, came every weekend. Second time
I got locked up. I was still with it, and
I said, listen, go and do your think. And she's like, oh,
(23:46):
you know, I'll stick by. And I said, enjoy life. Man.
At the time I was twenty seven, I believe, and
I was going enjoy life. Man. I chose this. You
didn't choose this. And if you find someone, I always
look after our kids. But you know, I just do
your thing and I'm not going to put you on
the visitors this You're not come and visit me. And
that was pretty much what I did for that seven years.
(24:08):
And of the seven years she was still around, such
a good little girl. She saying, hey, I'm still here
if you want to sort something now. Started that back
up and the rest of his history. But it was all,
you know, I was so used to it. People knew
who I was. I didn't have a fear of anything.
I never dicked anyone. I was always about how to
(24:28):
me and you make some money, How do I connect
you with that person. I was a great connector as well,
and connect you used by people because of people wanted
to do that, I guarantee, and people wanted to as
you know. And then Robb, you take your and bad
things happen a lot of people that you and I
probably know as and they're not here any longer. And
(24:50):
some of the things that you hear that happen, it's
just crazy. So and that's just all he say around
but in general, it's just I just got to a
point where I mean, you know enough enough, man, The
world was changing, and you look at it now. People
shouldn't each other for just doing crazy stuff, man, and
main streets. The new generation coming through now is nothing
(25:12):
like our generation, man. And it's only a matter of
time before someone in the background gets hit and the
place is going to cut loose. And I think you
always have people that step up and go down that path.
But I just seen it coming. People were ripping peachable off, people,
robbing people. People couldn't make money themselves, so they were
(25:32):
trying to get you in the hotel rooms or places
and spaces, and you just got to be smart, as
you know, be around the right people. And have your
crew and my crew at the time, we're willing to
do whatever it took, and I trusted them and that's
all we needed.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
But how did you leave coming out of inside for
so many years and then thinking I'm going to change
my life around. But then you've got to find legit money,
you know what I mean? That wouldn't been fucking hard.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Crazy Like when I was in, I was training all
the time, super fit, shredded, so I just went on
be a trainer. When I got to I was always
at E too, so I couldn't get out of maximum security.
And they said, man, we've got to give you for
a chance. We're going to give you a chance to
go through this pathway and you can go through works Release.
And I're are you joking And they're like, nah, Like seriously,
(26:19):
We'll let you go through works Release. And when we
got there, they said there's a whole bunch of courses
and there was a personal training of course. At the time,
it just come out and I was like, man, I'd
love to do that, and I was fit and just
made sense. And then I came out the first time
before that, after the five years, I was using the
personal training to smother the money. And then the second
(26:41):
time I came out and said, nah, enough, I'm actually
going to be a trainer. In the process of the
Melbourne sentence, I did a bachelor's of green nutrition science,
so now I was a trainer nutrition is and I
had we trained different in there, and as you know,
you train around the boys that total just you know,
there's no put them on there ten reps, now do
another ten. Yeah, and you're around those types of lads.
(27:04):
It's just a diferent mentality. So business when like these
really quickly. I just embraced myself with that for six years, man,
and the only thing that changed at was my brother
died by seul so and I sort of started to think,
oh wait a second, maybe I shouldn't be in this industry,
Maybe I should be in mental health. And then for
two years I was sort of doing a lot of
talks in schools and then into corporate organizations, aboraginal services,
(27:28):
you name it. And then Sister dies by soul Side
twenty and eighteen, and at that point in time, I've
done seventy nine sixty nine talks and I just worked
out how much I'd made and I went, I can
just do this, and then I started to do the
talks and I walk away think and I got more
to it. So I started to do long term programs
(27:48):
basically is what I scaled it to and built, you know,
as the main source income. So it was it was
a pretty smooth transition, believe it or not. But I
definitely thought about it in there. I said, I can't
go and work for someone because again is real criminal
history check and they're just not going to give me
a job. You've got to do something where you build
it yourself. Fitness was easy. I was fit, loved it,
(28:10):
read every book ready and he's encyclopedia. I was going
to be here.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
How hard was it when they committed suicide? Did you
know that they're going to do it? There was any
It's just out of the blue.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Just crazy man. And I got the message on Facebook,
sorry about your brother, and I was like, what about
my brother? And they're like, oh, contact your family, sort
of the gist of the conversation, and I was like,
what are you talking about, Tommy, tell me, tell me
and then and then I'm trying to ring him no answer,
ring the family and find out when the last time
(28:49):
he spoke to me. Before he did that week. I
think it was probably the day before because he's meant
to get on a flight back to Sydney. We're playing
foot up before club. We got in contracted and he
missed a flight and I said, are you coming? What happened?
And he said, so, you know, I'll get on the
next one. I said, you're going to get on the
next one because I book you on. He goes, I
(29:10):
leave it with me. I've got to do something by Friday,
you can book it, and just never got there. Man,
he missed that flight. That was And when I look
back through his social media, the only thing he ever said,
he fluff is this hard death must be easier. And
our cousin jumped on and said, talk about that. I'll
come and smash you, and they actually had a bit
of a couple of words online. That was the only
(29:33):
thing he ever said. So the rest was all pretty
positive photos of him at events and stuff like that.
So it was just out of the blue. And then
the sister was just left field. Man. No one expected it,
and especially from her. She was so peaceful, so beautiful,
(29:53):
just everyone loved her. I'd party with her when I
was a kid. A lot we were very very close,
so it just yeah, it didn't see him coming, man,
And it just shows you a I look back and
I try and replace sentences I've said in peace and
thought about times together and what they said, and did
(30:13):
they say anything like you try to go back and
replace stuff, but there's nothing really that older said she,
you know, come stay with me. And there was a
period where my sisters did say, can I come stay
with you? And I said, yeah, of course, come and
live with me. But I just thought she wanted to
be around me, and we're training, we're doing things, and
I didn't take anything of it. I was like, look
(30:36):
after yourself or stuff of that nature. But looking back
on it, it is probably her saying, you know, little cry
out for help and unfortunately just hear it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Well in your time before you stop doing all the
robberies and all like that, how much you reckon you
make millions?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Really? Yeah? Millions? Easy? Well probably if you go by
to police documents, not millions. I might be just talking
to that father.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But did you when you when you got the money
and all like that, did you just spledge your partying.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Like I had some good people around me at the time,
And if you know, Eric honey Shad would sort of
point me in the right direction and just around the
old school fellas Victor Camileary and or old school blogs.
But back then when they were all going well, and
then some of them obviously chose a different path and
turned on people and all of the above. But I
(31:38):
had the old crew there, so they'd all talked to
me about Wally Carr and they just say his what
you should do best. And then they put me in
contact with other people old school, like old old school people,
and they ended their legs Abe Fron and like all
that way back when, and it was just a different
I used some of the money well, but a lot
(32:00):
of it just went on buying clothes, impressing people and
just bullshit, you know, like no, no, and what are
you even doing for? What were you? Like? I look
back when I look at it, I go, what do
you what do you do it for? Just stupid? I
think a lot of it was, do not think I
know it was validation that I didn't get from my parents.
So now that I'm the poorstry if I'm the bank
(32:21):
rob on the whatever around, Jeff more than this, Jeff,
more than that. That was how I felt good about myself.
I know, it's just crazy. And when I finally paused
to think about I was like, fuck man, please, and
everybody else unconsciously fuck this. I'm out, you know. Years
later and I'm done. And even my crew they were
like when they got arrested, I wish ad your strength,
(32:44):
and I think that sense was nineteen years was seven
years on the bottom. Crazy. So if they go back
in they got I'm pretty sure they got twelve years
to go. Yeah, it's crazy. I've caught up with them
and they've said, I just wish I had your strength,
and I just wouldn't be going through this court money
(33:05):
at this time of life. Only come fifty two this year,
and I'm just thinking to myself, if I get done again, now,
say it was to anything, whether it's important, whether it's
a bank robbery or armor guards, which you couldn't do
these days. Anyway, you're going to serve ten years. I'm
going to die in there, and I've seen many die
and I went, I don't want to die here. So
(33:26):
there's more life than this place.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
If you could look back on any job that you did,
which one would stand out?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh, probably that you're proud of you.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, like, I know it's hard to say you're
proud of doing this, but the thing is that you go, fuck,
that was a good job.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But the reality is we're on a podcast and we
give them context to people. I'd definitely say the one
in Melbourne that we're arrested for because police watched us.
And in the end, I just said to him, I
know we're being watched and we're going to do something.
Just trust me. So I went unlocked at this other
bank and I said, yeah, here, and I'm pointing there
and I said, and they're like, what if, what's this about?
(34:03):
Just roll with me? Yeah, this that, And I wasn't
even saying anything really, I was like, yeah, you know,
points of things. Anyway, they set up at that bank,
dog squad helicopter or the SAgs in Melbourne and they
were all waiting for us at that bank and surveillance
were following us. I said, we're going to lose them
at some point in time and we'll go to the
other bank. So we did a little maneuver on him,
(34:23):
lost them, and then sure enough they went to that
other bank and they're saying they're not here, they're not here,
and then the arm went off in the bank at
Blackburn in Victoria. When we came out of bank, surveillance
was already there. The police were out the front, and
I come out and did this. Bloke had driven up
the gut and put his car at the front of
the bank to try and block the doors. So I
(34:44):
come out and I just did the jump up on
his bottom slide across.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
It.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Felt like I was duke literally, even because they jumped
up and ran across it. I just slid across it
and then just jumped in the car and took off.
We got chased by the motorbike cop who was undercover,
and then we wound up and them got away with it,
and we were technically we wouldn't have got away because
they knew who we were and we're going to get arrested,
(35:11):
but we got away with the money. And I just think,
you know, to be watched by the police Robert Bank
and still get away unbelievable and not get shot dead,
you know, even that on the back end of it,
And what made you do Melbourne, I don't even remember.
I came from d C, so I was a white,
(35:31):
pale like and I was like and they got just
sleep in the back of Taraga and I was like, oh, man,
I couldn't be and they're like, sleep away, you'll be
fresh to the big And then we got down there
on the Monday and we planned all week so just
so you know them. And then we as we were
driving to the bank and we're about I said, we've
got to lose this. He said, we're going to do it,
(35:53):
and we worked out a way to do it. Yeah. Anyway,
long story short, my cold turning to guys, do you
know the date today? And I said, thank you, thank you,
fuck And he's like, man, it's Friday at the third
D and it doesn't mean nothing to me. I said,
means they don't going to get more money or something
like that. Yeah, And when we're sitting in the cells,
I said, Friday the thirteenth, When did you say that?
(36:16):
What did you bring it up for? All this? But
may they knew these robberies have been happening all across
the country and they were trying to catch what they
called the sledge hammer crew. They believe we would have
sledge hammer crew. Well what happened was the car got
seen at the front of the hotel and BMW M
five at the time. The latest one seen at the
front of the hotel. The boys were meant to park it.
(36:39):
They went down and sort of went to the hotel
and said what do you want to park it? And
the copp has seen him. It was funny because they've
done a U turn. They'd done a U turn and
then they kept doing this city YouTube and I was like,
what are you doing in the toarago behind and watching
it coming down to it. They're just doing these circles
like this. And then they took what he's doing. And
then they found the hotel because they said, oh, he's
(37:00):
any Sydney they'd staying in the hotel here. They said,
only one bloke this spoke is. They gave our names
and I said, none of those any Sydney bokes. I
just spoke here, have a little fake license. And they
just said ran it and said mate, that's the crew
and put the balance on us for that whole week
one the surveillance and you still went through the job.
(37:23):
And I told him, wend a surveillance, we should pull
the plug. We'll just get done for the car. And
what do you get for a car? Six months? Twelve
months maybe? And I said, like just pull a bug.
Biggest thing out of that. Probably I was glad that
we didn't, because if I didn't and I did the
twelve months or six months in Melbourne, I would have
kept going and maybe, you know, you do a big
(37:43):
job and I end up dead, or end up serving
fifteen twenty years, maybe someone else ends up there or
something of that nature. So it sort of worked out.
I worked out in my favor in a weird way,
and I'm forever, it sounds crazy, forever grateful for being
arrested down in a different system. Gave you a chance
to rehabilitate. Put us in the cottages, study the UNI degree,
(38:06):
and I think it was just that time, you know,
hit a threshold, where do you want to I was
in the slot. I had a mobile phone. I was
going to troll the boys pull it out during lunch
and I was in a beautiful spot. I dug out
the actual window sill, made this little key. You would
never found it. They searched uself. They go, we know
you've got a phone. I couldn't find it. They pull
(38:28):
it out at lunch, put it in the butter in
a plastic bag. They come in and they hit the
butter and may it done. I come back from court
and they got more than this way and I said,
that's the slot on over there, and he goes, yeah,
you go on to the slot, mate, found a phone
in yourself and I was like, oh, anyway, you take
the rap three months in there and you know, on
(38:48):
the back of it, I just it was all coming together.
I got on the truck coming back. We were built tough, man,
but I just broke down crying. I don't even I
just don't even know. I just had enough and I
was like, my kids without me, is this the life
you want? Yeah? And I cried pretty much all the
way back from Melbourne City to Port Phillip, which is
(39:10):
about good solid twenty minutes. And then I get off
the track and they're like into the slot and I'm like,
probably need the rest anyone laying there? And then four
wars nothing there, and it just you start thinking, you know,
everything matter. I could picture girls from the club back
in the day, what dresses they were wearing. I wonder
what that girl's name was. Asked, yeah, seem he might know.
(39:33):
Like do you think stupid shit?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Man?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
And there's just low level and I was like, do
you want to keep operating from this level. Or do
you want to do something with your life? Fifth night,
there's your way out. Do you want to check out?
And you go out to the yard for an hour
a day and I look up at the bars. I
could do something there. I just jump up and bang,
jump off it. Yeah. You go through these little thought
processes and or do you want to get shroughty sentence,
(39:56):
come out and do something with your life? Which one?
Choose one? And then I just went enough enough man
and walk out of the slot, bump into UNI actually
goes you want to do a university degree? Mate? You
look like a smart chap. And I was like, mate,
you know it, and it gives a look. The rest
was history. I sort of started that pathway and just
was different in I talked to all the boys still,
(40:18):
but just not on the level of mogs want to
cook up when we get out and I'll connect you
and a lot of those boys down there, like I see,
and then they've been, you know, went through all that
stuff that where people aren't here any longer. A lot
of blokes we know, you know they're in there. I'm
probably looking at life for twenty years now at my age,
same thing and just crazy. I just think I was
(40:39):
on that cusp of do you keep going and serve
twenty years end up dead or do you move on
in life? And what's the biggest regret my kids? Definitely
my kids, you know, just not connecting with my kids.
Always hard man like to this day, I don't have
I don't have a relationship with my son, my daughter,
(41:00):
same on and off with my daughter and then my
youngest daughter. I've got a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Why do you think you haven't got the relationship with
your son? Do you think it's is rebelled? Oh no,
just things. At the time, we were respectful.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
So the wife had cheated at the time, and we
made a decision not telling that and just said we
grew apart. And then when I had a partner eighteen
months lad, he said, I knew it was all about
you had a partner and didn't you That's what happened.
And then she told him and she was she was
a great partner. She's a great person, great human. Just
made a bad choice. We're not bad people, just make
(41:33):
bad choices. We don't have bad days, we just have
bad moments. And for her, she come out and told
him and said oh, you know your dad was right
in leaving. I don't and he's like, don't lie. You
know you're saying it because you're trying to stick up
for him. But by that stage it was embedded in
him that that's what happened, and just never looked back. Then.
(41:54):
There was a couple other things how he saw it.
Me again locked not caring, which is fair enough. You
didn't care about me, Why should I care about you?
So I keep sending Texas man, and you just hope
that one day comes around man and something happens and
they realize and I've done my best to be a
better human and definitely try and be a bet twenty eight.
(42:15):
Now what's it? What's he doing for them? Commerce with
Westpac as far as I know, but ideas they probably
kick him out if they hear that. Sorry, don't get
kicked out. But nah, I didn't. And I'm proud of him, mate.
He was ducks of his school and it shows you
(42:35):
like he had the support from me and his mum
as much as I could when I was there help
him study, red did what I could. He was duck
of his school and he was right up there in
that plan. I think number one in the state around
that plan, and to hear that shows you that if
I had the right support when I was younger, or
it takes is how you program somebody. Unfortunately I was
(42:55):
programmed that way, but I've come good and you know,
give him back as much as I possibly can, whether
it's at a kid level, whether it's at a juvenile
justice corrections, whether it's a corporate athletes national framework. Obviously,
now we're business and what we do to be able
to help people structure their lives or their businesses to
get really high performances. Just like our bank robbery crew
(43:17):
in the end, As you know, police didn't respect many people,
but I know that they bashed the shit out of
every arm robber that they got doing an armed robbery
or something. When we got arrested, they just took us
in the custody and it was like, you operate at
a different level. And I think the kid thing, helping
the kid out of the bank, They're like, you know,
they're not that bad. We weren't bad. People were just
(43:38):
built bad, and that's you know, eventually it comes around
and you sort of have that realization there's a better
way to life. Yeah, if you haven't got like that.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
You've said, regrets is your kids, But is there anything
you would change in them years do differently than what
you did. Maybe if there's a bank robber that you did,
be a a job that you didn't do right, you
could have done it better.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
There's a lot of when you sometimes like just things
happened the door. I'll say, like I can say these
stories about what I heard, which could be just here
say you know, but in general, you imagine sledgehammering and
the vaults actually so full you can't even get the
movement you need to stuff for that nature or things
(44:22):
that bends, and you can see the money, but you
just can't get the door open in time, and police
are close by, and people have had to leave and
stuff with that nature. And as much as people might
I want to hear this, the reality is there was
just such a feeling the moment to the point you
got to think, if please pull up, you could run
out and get a bullet to the head. And you're
not even thinking about that. You're just singing about the
(44:42):
moment of the bank robbery. And I think to be
in a crew that was well respected within the criminal
world based around what we did, and even being a connector,
I connected a lot of people for different reasons and
made a lot of money there as well. And you
look back and you think if I could have done
you know, I always looked at other things. You look
at things that happen overseas, big armor guarde heist or
(45:05):
she didn't try and go obviouselyas to do his job. Yeah, yeah,
I just probably yeah, overseas. I remember being in I
was in Germany and I still remember, and the lady goes,
can you mind the shop? Can you mind the shop?
She said, can you mind the shop? She has I'll
be back in five minutes. I'm so hungry, And I
was like, like the back, open the safe. That was
(45:29):
the old searching days, like searching and distract the shop,
keep it, go out, open the vault safe and take
the money locker back up, put the keys back in
their bag. And they wouldn't even know until the end
of the day. And I'm sitting there going should I should?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Nah?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You know, I don't want to be locked up doing
it during the German winter.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I mean on.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Holidays, let's not make it a longer holiday. But like
just I think Sydney was enough and the one Melbourne
job was enough and the rest were as I said, Yeah,
whoever that the crew obviously surge Ham crew. Yeah, they
had this dotted map and they've done a lot of
robberies and I suppose you look back on just things
(46:10):
that could have gone right or better for that crew,
and no doubt they would have made a lot more money.
And you always see movies like Heat back in the day.
I don't know if you ever watched Heat sorts of
movies and you thought about the armor depots or stuff
of that nature. Anyway, people that aren't even bank robbers,
I armed robbers would think about stuff like that. I've
(46:31):
been on other podcasts and like I've always thought about
whether I could rob a bank and talking of that nature.
But it's a lot of planning. Yeah, a lot of
people did it off the cusps. I know you spoke
to Russell Manton at one point in time, and I
think Russe and It would have done it different too.
Not many did it the way we did it we planned.
But he wasn't really a big bank robber. Morey drugs running,
(46:56):
grab some money from the cashra just like the counters,
and run off from there. But in general, what we
learned a lot of people started to dad, and by
that stage they started obviously turned down the opportunity cameras
screens coming up. People were caught in the screens. Police
were using different tactics and catching a lot of people
out your water, saying these clothes out of the house,
(47:19):
and then they get you in the bank robbery with
the same clothes. So they take your photos there, let
you go for the day, and if you showed up,
I got charge with that. And for me, they said,
I only got off the charge because i'd say black
pants on, I said horizontal stripes and they were vertical
stripes in his thing. He said, well, this folk's got
(47:40):
vertical stripes. You wrote horizontal stripes and you don't have
a photo of him, but you w rt out what
he was wearing. And I got off that charge. So
it was yeah, crazy, Well, just a crazy life. Describe
yourself in one word. Adventurous, adventurous, fuck crazy. Probably i'd
(48:05):
say crazy, limitless, like there's a yes someone you know,
a hundred people that know me that, and you'd probably
get a hundred different I'd.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Say crazy suits you, Yeah, you have to be crazy
to be crazy to do what you've done and then
like you know, as you know, like back in the day,
all the boys, yourself, like anyone, you mess around and
you find out.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Even when I first met H, I was with another
bloke and I was talking to a girl and he's like,
who's this And I was like, what you got a problem?
And we're up the road. What was boss? And then
I'm yeah, So just things like that. You had no
fear and I was I'm not the biggest bloke. I'm
one hundred and seventy three CENTI made his tall man
(48:44):
five seven, I'm small. But it was crazy because I
had no fear, had the heart and do whatever talk man,
and I was willing to go to the end. So
you get that mentality. As you know, it's just different,
different beasts, so I'd say crazy. I want to say
thank you for coming on, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
It's very an interesting story mate, And then I'm a
pretty shiate you coming on to sharing that with me.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Man. I appreciate you having me and all the best
with your podcast. Must appreciate it by thanks Man
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Mm HM
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.