June 24, 2025 • 9 mins
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Catherine De Noire, who is a PhD student, runs a legal brothel in Europe with women who work as independent contractors. All she supplies is a space and security. Noire, who has 67,000 followers on TikTok, said safety is a “key feature” of the club and shared that all of the rooms were equipped with panic buttons.
Rewind back to Season 11 to hear the full story.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apogee Production. How don't think was it for you on
your first shift when you worked there? Your first night
working there? M hm, and you've never managed before in
your life. You're managing ow one hundred girls. Do you
(00:26):
have any help doing that or or is it just.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
No no. I mean I have a like a senior
manager to basically show me everything. And it took me
like three months until I was capable of at least
doing the shift fully, you know, the responsibilities and of stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I needed to learn everything. The first shift was like.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Really to see what this is all about, to maybe
say hi to some girls, to see the systems that
we use. I guess we use like a lot of
IT systems, you know, like a CRM reports, those kinds
of stuff. So I needed to at least like I
have a sort of concept like how I'm going to
be working. It was the first and I remember I
(01:09):
was like extremely tired because we were during the night.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So our ship.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Starts at six sorry seven pm and a week finished
six am in the morning, so I remember being extremely tired.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It was something completely different.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So what what happens? There's a hundred rooms, right because
I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch it now because
it's this This place is so secretive. I've looked up
and you do not want to tell anybody where it is.
How the fuck I would find it? I don't know.
I'm trying to pitch it. Is it an old place?
It must be like an old hotel or something.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's not at all, but I mean it's like three
years old. So I don't know if you consider this old, because.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch you, like adred
one hundred bedrooms plus rooms like service rooms and all
like that. How the hell, How the hell do you
keep account for all them bills or what if they
need help?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
So every room has at least one panic button. We
have our own security.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We can call the police anytime if there is any
problem because we operate clearly, so we don't need to fight.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So but the most important thing is the alarm, the
panic button.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So the girls are instructed to press it if they
will feel the situation is like going, you know, not
in a way that they would like to, or if
there's like any kind of like heated arguments.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That they don't want to continue with. So they are basically.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Instructed to press the panning button because I always tell
them it's like it's better to press it for nothing
then find yourself in a situation when it's very hard
for you to handle it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But it didn't happen so often.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean the alarm situation, it's it happens like one
twice a month, but it's like nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
The most the most situations.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The most common one is that the guions the service
is over and he doesn't want to leave. So he's like,
I'm not going anywhere. I would like to stay here more.
She's like, yeah, well you can, but you need to pay,
and he's like, I don't you, I want to stay here.
So this had a situation the or the guy falls
asleep after you know, the service and she doesn't want
(03:25):
to wake him up or something, so she just.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So, you've never had any kind of trouble ever since
you've been waking there.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I've been there nine years, almost nine years, and since
i'm there, it's like never anything serious happened, which is
like part of it is because we are too big
for something serious to happen. Because if you if you
want to harm a sex worker, you will aim for
(03:53):
independent ones because she's there alone, there's like no security.
The police will be like very hard for her to
call the police. But we are you know, we have
the security pending buttons.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The police are.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Very quickly, so if you go on to harm somebody
as a client, you will not go to the cloud.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How many how many securities you have in that building?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So we have like one team of security guys and
usually it's like five.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Or four of them.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Three if it's like very slow night like Monday Tuesdays,
those kind of slow night too.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Am I am? I allowed to ask what country this
is in? Or you know?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You your location?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So you are secretive with Before I get this question,
how do if I'm overseas and I want to find
this place, how the hell do I find it?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think you will find it just like by walking
in this city.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It's very big, you know, as it said.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I don't, I don't. I don't even know what contating exactly.
So how so how do I find it?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Will definitely find it?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, if you will be in the capit all of
this of this country, you will definitely find it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You Okay, I'll ask you this then? Why why so
secretive with it?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
One of the reasons is that I like to protect
the privacy of the workers and the employees of the
company because I'm very open about what I do, but
not everybody is, so it's so open about what they do,
so I wouldn't so like, I don't want to place
the the the sex workers that works with us to
the situation when there would be a guy you know
(05:34):
and be like, ah, you are the girl.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
From the instagram. Oh.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And also like when I when I started with the Instagram,
I just did it for myself. I was feeling like
a little bit burned out, and then it kind of
got big. And at one point I was like, I
need to tell this to the owners because I don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Do this as a secret from them. And they were
like super that you know, I have this thing.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
But they told me like, look, you can in the film,
in the in the club.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You can film like anywhere, but just this close the location.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, So I'll go. I'll go to my question that
I was going to ask. With this property and this
business being so big in this country, in this city,
has any kind of gangsters tried to take over this place? No,
have any affiliation, have any affiliation of it. The only
reason I ask is a lot of brothels over here
(06:36):
are run by underworld figures. Okay, so that's why I'm
asking the question, Like gangsters and all like that run
brothels here.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, I mean, we don't do this in here.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I don't hang out with other managers from different clubs.
I know at least like one of them from different
club he was arrested for drug dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So this is like one of the.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Reasons why I don't hang out with them so much.
You know, our company, when we started or when the
owners started with this business, they they decide to do
it differently. So this is one of the reasons why
us as a managers, we need to have psychology, like
psychological degree.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So we did this pretty differently than the other club.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And since we are so big, you know, there's like
no no gangsters type of the thing going on.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So the only reason I asked you that, as I said,
a lot of brothels and strip clubs in Australia even
in the UK, as I know, are run by mafia
underworld figures, gangsters. Yeah, that's why I was asking. Wow,
Now if you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Would meet the owners, they are like such a sweet
guys like you wouldn't never tell that they run a brothel.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Wow, So okay, then how do you stop drugs coming
into your venue.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
We actually never had a situation when there would be
like two dealers coming in because we would notice, you know,
if there would be a customer and he would sell
drugs to other customers, we would pretty much notice. You know,
we have like CCTVs everywhere. Also, the security they throughout
of the night, they just chicky places. Also the women
they are when we are accepting them, we always tell
(08:26):
them it's like, if you want to take the drugs,
don't do it in here.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Because we really you really don't want this thing to
be happening here.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But of course, sometimes you know, the customers, they are
coming in and they maybe want to take some bookin
or something, and they usually need to bring this with
them because there is like you don't sell it of course. Yeah,
so sometimes when they are like drugs, the customers are
already coming in and they maybe have some something small
(08:56):
with them.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You know what, you must have the most professional run
brothel in the world, because I act in se at
because every brophele, I know, every night life person who
owns a nightclub or anything in Australia has dealers coming
in and having have them dealers have workers in that
venue running for you. I can't believe no one is
(09:21):
doing in your venue. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I mean I.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Remember there was this one situation. It's like many years ago.
We had this bartender and he was like very sweet
person and.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Then we like after after one week, we found out
that he was trying to deal the drugs there.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So then we just tell him like, sorry, men, but
you work here. This is the thing that we don't
want to wo
Apogee Production. How don't think was it for you on
your first shift when you worked there? Your first night
working there? M hm, and you've never managed before in
your life. You're managing ow one hundred girls. Do you
(00:26):
have any help doing that or or is it just.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
No no. I mean I have a like a senior
manager to basically show me everything. And it took me
like three months until I was capable of at least
doing the shift fully, you know, the responsibilities and of stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I needed to learn everything. The first shift was like.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Really to see what this is all about, to maybe
say hi to some girls, to see the systems that
we use. I guess we use like a lot of
IT systems, you know, like a CRM reports, those kinds
of stuff. So I needed to at least like I
have a sort of concept like how I'm going to
be working. It was the first and I remember I
(01:09):
was like extremely tired because we were during the night.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So our ship.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Starts at six sorry seven pm and a week finished
six am in the morning, so I remember being extremely tired.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It was something completely different.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So what what happens? There's a hundred rooms, right because
I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch it now because
it's this This place is so secretive. I've looked up
and you do not want to tell anybody where it is.
How the fuck I would find it? I don't know.
I'm trying to pitch it. Is it an old place?
It must be like an old hotel or something.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's not at all, but I mean it's like three
years old. So I don't know if you consider this old, because.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch you, like adred
one hundred bedrooms plus rooms like service rooms and all
like that. How the hell, How the hell do you
keep account for all them bills or what if they
need help?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
So every room has at least one panic button. We
have our own security.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We can call the police anytime if there is any
problem because we operate clearly, so we don't need to fight.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So but the most important thing is the alarm, the
panic button.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So the girls are instructed to press it if they
will feel the situation is like going, you know, not
in a way that they would like to, or if
there's like any kind of like heated arguments.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That they don't want to continue with. So they are basically.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Instructed to press the panning button because I always tell
them it's like it's better to press it for nothing
then find yourself in a situation when it's very hard
for you to handle it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But it didn't happen so often.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean the alarm situation, it's it happens like one
twice a month, but it's like nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
The most the most situations.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The most common one is that the guions the service
is over and he doesn't want to leave. So he's like,
I'm not going anywhere. I would like to stay here more.
She's like, yeah, well you can, but you need to pay,
and he's like, I don't you, I want to stay here.
So this had a situation the or the guy falls
asleep after you know, the service and she doesn't want
(03:25):
to wake him up or something, so she just.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So, you've never had any kind of trouble ever since
you've been waking there.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I've been there nine years, almost nine years, and since
i'm there, it's like never anything serious happened, which is
like part of it is because we are too big
for something serious to happen. Because if you if you
want to harm a sex worker, you will aim for
(03:53):
independent ones because she's there alone, there's like no security.
The police will be like very hard for her to
call the police. But we are you know, we have
the security pending buttons.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The police are.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Very quickly, so if you go on to harm somebody
as a client, you will not go to the cloud.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How many how many securities you have in that building?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So we have like one team of security guys and
usually it's like five.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Or four of them.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Three if it's like very slow night like Monday Tuesdays,
those kind of slow night too.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Am I am? I allowed to ask what country this
is in? Or you know?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You your location?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So you are secretive with Before I get this question,
how do if I'm overseas and I want to find
this place, how the hell do I find it?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think you will find it just like by walking
in this city.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It's very big, you know, as it said.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I don't, I don't. I don't even know what contating exactly.
So how so how do I find it?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Will definitely find it?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, if you will be in the capit all of
this of this country, you will definitely find it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You Okay, I'll ask you this then? Why why so
secretive with it?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
One of the reasons is that I like to protect
the privacy of the workers and the employees of the
company because I'm very open about what I do, but
not everybody is, so it's so open about what they do,
so I wouldn't so like, I don't want to place
the the the sex workers that works with us to
the situation when there would be a guy you know
(05:34):
and be like, ah, you are the girl.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
From the instagram. Oh.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And also like when I when I started with the Instagram,
I just did it for myself. I was feeling like
a little bit burned out, and then it kind of
got big. And at one point I was like, I
need to tell this to the owners because I don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Do this as a secret from them. And they were
like super that you know, I have this thing.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
But they told me like, look, you can in the film,
in the in the club.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You can film like anywhere, but just this close the location.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, So I'll go. I'll go to my question that
I was going to ask. With this property and this
business being so big in this country, in this city,
has any kind of gangsters tried to take over this place? No,
have any affiliation, have any affiliation of it. The only
reason I ask is a lot of brothels over here
(06:36):
are run by underworld figures. Okay, so that's why I'm
asking the question, Like gangsters and all like that run
brothels here.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, I mean, we don't do this in here.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I don't hang out with other managers from different clubs.
I know at least like one of them from different
club he was arrested for drug dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So this is like one of the.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Reasons why I don't hang out with them so much.
You know, our company, when we started or when the
owners started with this business, they they decide to do
it differently. So this is one of the reasons why
us as a managers, we need to have psychology, like
psychological degree.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So we did this pretty differently than the other club.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And since we are so big, you know, there's like
no no gangsters type of the thing going on.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So the only reason I asked you that, as I said,
a lot of brothels and strip clubs in Australia even
in the UK, as I know, are run by mafia
underworld figures, gangsters. Yeah, that's why I was asking. Wow,
Now if you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Would meet the owners, they are like such a sweet
guys like you wouldn't never tell that they run a brothel.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Wow, So okay, then how do you stop drugs coming
into your venue.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
We actually never had a situation when there would be
like two dealers coming in because we would notice, you know,
if there would be a customer and he would sell
drugs to other customers, we would pretty much notice. You know,
we have like CCTVs everywhere. Also, the security they throughout
of the night, they just chicky places. Also the women
they are when we are accepting them, we always tell
(08:26):
them it's like, if you want to take the drugs,
don't do it in here.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Because we really you really don't want this thing to
be happening here.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But of course, sometimes you know, the customers, they are
coming in and they maybe want to take some bookin
or something, and they usually need to bring this with
them because there is like you don't sell it of course. Yeah,
so sometimes when they are like drugs, the customers are
already coming in and they maybe have some something small
(08:56):
with them.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You know what, you must have the most professional run
brothel in the world, because I act in se at
because every brophele, I know, every night life person who
owns a nightclub or anything in Australia has dealers coming
in and having have them dealers have workers in that
venue running for you. I can't believe no one is
(09:21):
doing in your venue. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I mean I.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Remember there was this one situation. It's like many years ago.
We had this bartender and he was like very sweet
person and.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Then we like after after one week, we found out
that he was trying to deal the drugs there.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So then we just tell him like, sorry, men, but
you work here. This is the thing that we don't
want to wo
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