Surviving the Impossible | Jamie Hull

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Imagine jumping from a burning plane, knowing it’s your only chance to survive. At 32, while serving in the armed forces, Jamie faced this exact nightmare. He suffered life-threatening burns over 63% of his body and spent two years in the hospital recovering. In this episode, we dive into his incredible story of survival, resilience, and what it takes to rebuild after the unthinkable.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am
Neil the muscle comments.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
And in this episode, I talk to Jamie Hull, who
survived a plane crash.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
I definitely could have gone down that slippery road the
way that I was headed. But something came over me
around about the age of sixteen, and I started to
believe in myself a little bit more ironically, I'm dealing
with those young criminals and their dolls much like myself
back in the day. And I was able to turn
around and say to these young guys, look, I've been
in your shoes, and trust me, you can do better.

(00:42):
I mean, I came through the end of that absolutely
black and blue, but I gave as good as I got.
And I think I fractured my opponent's rib. I had
a bilateral nosal fracture, super orbital eye socket fractures. I
tore through the right side of my nose. I ruptured
my large intestine, my colon, and I lacerated my liver
internally from that jump. Doesn't matter what happens in life,

(01:05):
you know, if you still believe in yourself, if you
still want it, if you're still hungry for a process,
you can get there.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you anyway for coming on, Jamie. I really appreciate this.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
But we'll start the before we get into the nitty
gritty of everything in your life.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Let's start about you growing up, schooling, first.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Job and why did you want to join the army.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Thank you for having me, Neil, it's a great pleasure
to be speaking to you down there in Australia. I
grew up in a small market town in Bedfordshire called
Leighton Buzzard, which is a bit of an odd name,
so most people do remember it, and you know, it
was a pretty sleepy little market town. It's a bit
busy these days. But I'm now based in London, in
central London, and you know, I had a pretty normal upbringing.

(01:49):
But I was also a bit of a rebel for
a couple of years because I was largely unsupervised and
my parents split up and that wasn't uncommon, you know,
many many fans did. But in those days, you know,
my dad was away working a lot, my mum had
sort of moved away at the time with the sort
of parental split, and so I was young. I mean
I was only what twelve years of age. It sounds

(02:10):
quite alarming, But as long as the family unit was
still functional, then you know, social services perhaps weren't so bothered.
And we were getting on with it, and we were
sort of keeping ourselves afloat, and I'd come home from
school and sort of cook a meal from my younger
brother as well and kind of keep us going. But
during that period, so like I said, I was twelve

(02:30):
years of age, growing up into my sort of mid
teens and so on, I was a bit of a
rebel because of the lack of parental supervision. So I
was just getting on with it. And when no one's
really telling you what to do or what time to
come home and tow the party line, so to speak,
you just get up to no good. And I was
a man about town or just boy about town really,

(02:52):
but you know, I was getting involved in crime and
a bit of shoplifting and criminal damage and even breaking
and entering buildings and climbing over scaffolding on sort of
building sites and you name it, you know, construction sites
and all the rest of it. So I was a
right little kind of Herbert. But what I will say
is that it could have got worse. So I mean

(03:14):
I had mates that I kind of powered around with
in those days that kind of went on and graduated,
and you know, I know people that ended up getting
potted for armed robbery for you know, serious GBH, you know,
kind of assaults with intent. There were even other things
like firearms offences that I know people that got involved in.
But I definitely could have gone down that slippery road

(03:36):
the way that I was headed. But something came over
me around about the age of sixteen, around about the
time that I received the results from my GCSE, so
there's certificate of education from high school, and my results
were appalling. I think I got like one GCS and
I figured that, you know, for all of those years
of education, and that's what I've got to show for it.

(03:58):
And my grandfather at the time was giving me a
bit of a hard time basic where you need your English,
you need your maths, and without that, you're not going
to get too far in life. And I guess he
persuaded me to kind of retake the exams and I
stayed on at school and it was all good, you know,
I mean I worked hard, I sort of pulled it
back again and I eventually, having repeated the year, I

(04:19):
kind of got a bundle more sort of GCSS and
I've got the English and maths and so on, and
I started to believe in myself a little bit more.
So I sort of pulled it around. But literally, in
the few years leading up to that, you know, I
was getting up to no good and you know, breaking
into buildings and shops and stealing and criminal damage and

(04:41):
you know a bit of sort of petty sort of
drugs type stuff. And I definitely would have gone down
a slippery slope and I probably would have ended up
in not just failing education, but I would have likely
ended up in a boys kind of penitentiary and maybe
face in prison eventually if I hadn't remediated on my ways.
So that was my childhood. I mean, it's not a

(05:02):
sob story, but it's a case of.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Think we all did it though, because I think I
did the same to yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Like my parents split up when I was eight years old,
and I used to hang out at my grandparents house.
But I got up to mischief because I knew I
didn't have to tell them where I was going.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
I was just hanging with my mates. So I think
everyone used to just get up to no good and
just didn't tell their parents. But hopefully you just didn't
get caught.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
That's exactly it. Yeah, I mean, you know, and you
could perhaps hide a lot more in those days. I
mean it was pre internet, you know, pre mobile phone.
If you wanted to sort of you know, be a
bit more cunning and hidden as it were, you could
get away with it. And I was exactly that as
a young teen, you know. But what I realized, maybe

(05:46):
quite young, also was that I would utilize that cunning
and that sort of daring do to more positive effect
and used the mindset and use the will to sort
of benefit myself and better myself rather than just being
sort of on the criminal side of things, you know.
And so just to turn it around, I only did

(06:07):
I sort of pay attention in school and sort of
do a bit better, but I also started to work.
So I took on little jobs and I started to
graft for a living. And I didn't necessarily get much
support at home, because you know, financially we weren't particularly
well off. But I learned from a young age that
if I go out and work for it in my
free time, in my spare moments, then I can earn

(06:28):
a few pounds, you know, a few dollars here and there,
and then that would add up, and then I could
do stuff with the money, and I could buy myself
new clothing and put it towards say a car when
I got my license, and that kind of stuff. And
I just kept working and I realized the power of
going out and the power of grafting for yourself to
sort of make an honest living. And then when I
got to about eighteen nineteen, I think I made the

(06:51):
concerted decision that I wanted to do something big and
sort of brave, at least that's what it felt like
at the time. And I'd put my money where my
mouth was, and I went to an agent in London
and I bought a around the world ticket to travel,
and I did exactly that. So I carried on working
and I saved up a shed load of money, and

(07:13):
it was around about six thousand pounds, so probably about
twelve thousand Australian dollars back in the day. We're talking
thirty years ago. And I took the plunge and my
first stop was from London to Johannesburg in South Africa,
and I traveled all around the whole of Southern Africa.
I even got a job working in Cape Town on
the markets there because I'd worked on markets in the UK,

(07:34):
because this is a small market town where I'd come from.
So I developed that experience, managed to leverage that down
in Cape Town, and I was suddenly found myself selling
like ten foot high wooden giraffes and big sort of
wooden hippopotamus and that kind of stuff that had been
carved out in places like Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Botswana. And

(07:57):
it was a great experience. You know. I ended up
traveling from South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, cross the
border into Angola, even when there was a little civil
war going on, I went up to Malawi. I mean
this was before I'd done anything in life. You know,
I was just a young backpacker and I put my
best foot forwards. I used this so I was street

(08:19):
smart and I used my best kind of judgment on
the ground to try to keep myself on the straight
and narrow to keep myself safe. But I took sort
of calculated risks to step here and to step there,
and to take various stepping stones to make it a
really exciting young journey that I took in my own life.

(08:40):
And it really was that. And I mean I had
so many adventures along the road. You know, I was
crossing borders in countries where you know, you get turned
over by immigration officials and police at various borders and checkpoints.
In this is in African countries, like thirty years ago,
so you literally get turned over, and you'd soon realize, well,
if I have a little stash of US dollars in

(09:01):
my back pocket, I can kind of smooth this out
avoid getting effectively my gear turned over and stuff stolen
off me. I can kind of preserve what I've got
by you know, cutting them ten dollars fifteen bucks here
and there, you know, and I could keep myself on
the straight and narrow and survive and get from A
to B, t C to D and have my little

(09:21):
African adventure. And that's how it was. I realized that,
you know, Africa, you know, was a little bit corrupt
certainly in those days, but you could could survive if
you used your wit and you use your kind of
intelligence to kind of navigate your path and your journey.
So that taught me a lot from a young age.
With the journey and the sort of the forward thinking

(09:43):
and the planning that went into that. And then so
from South Africa I bundled over to Australia and ended
up in Perth as part of this around the world
thing that I had going on, and I went across,
spent some time in the West, and then it went across.
To correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it
was forty hours of greyhound bus across the nullaboard plane.

(10:05):
Quite an adventure in itself, and I can remember the
bus driver would come on the microphone, so we're going
to be stopping here for a couple of hours. You
just need to get yourself into the gas station and
fill your boots and take your time, and it will
have a sandwich and maybe a hot drink, and then
we'll be back on the bus for so and so
and then you can get your hit down once again.

(10:26):
And that's how it was. And we had all these
various stops across the nullbore. Before I knew it, I
was in Adelaide and I went to see the final
Grand Prix. In Adelaide. I managed to just about get
one of the last romaining tickets that were going before
that moved across to Melbourne the older Formula one. So
I was in Adelaide at the time, and it was

(10:46):
a wonderful sort of experienced, great adventure, and I got
to take in all of that kind of environment down
towards where the Murray River is and all of those
big plantations with the big wineries and stuff. So that
was pretty cool. And then I went across to Sydney
and I sort of fell on my feet. I end
up as a black dicky bow tie sort of cocktail

(11:07):
barman in the Bourbon the Bourbon and beefsteak. It was
in King's Cross in Sydney, and it was a great
adventure and I'm sort of learning the cocktails and trying
to sort of memorize the menu and you know, take
care of the monies and everything so that the house
always wins on that front. And I did pretty well

(11:27):
out of it as well as what felt like a
glamorous bar kind of barman type role in Sydney. So
I was pretty well rewarded and I enjoyed that, and
it allowed me to save up some pennies and consider
what I was, you know, some of the other things
that I was going to do while I was out there.
I went up to the North and I was really

(11:47):
really interested and also passionate about getting into the sport
of recreational scuba diving. And I loved it so much
that I volunteered, having done some basic courses, and I
volunteered as a deckhand up in Cairns. So I ran
out of Cairns with a small operation, and it was
a fifty foot schooner like a yacht called Ocean Free,

(12:10):
and it spoke around for fifteen nautical miles offshore from
Cairns out to Green Island every single day. And I
was a volunteer on the boat. So I used to
shadow the dive masters and the instructors, and I learned
the trade. And I was there making tea for the customers,
you know, you know, scrubbing out at the bathroom and
everything at the end of the day on board and

(12:30):
the toilets. But I learned the trade, and I learned
everything there was to know about the scuba diving industry,
and before too long, I was actually, you know, through
the voluntary process that I'd embarked upon, I was actually
a qualified dive master myself. And then I switched company.
I went to work for a bigger commercial outfit called
pro Dive, and I was then going further out every day,

(12:53):
you know, some thirty miles offshore or more. So we
would go to not just the inner reef, but to
the middle reef. In some cases we got out to
the outer reef on some of those bigger liver board
operations that I was working on. And so it was
a magic adventure I was doing. I remember thirty years
ago on the Barrier Reef. I was diving like the
very best of what the Great Barrier Reef had to offer,

(13:16):
you know, massive sort of pelagic species of shark. We'd
see dolphin, and massive great sea turtle, green turtle, hawks,
bill turtle, and giant hump head maori rass as well.
You know, in the water, it was a wonderful underwater environment,
That's what I'm trying to describe to you. And the
visibility was crystal clear, you know, you could see for

(13:37):
thirty meters or more, and the water was perhaps twenty
eight twenty nine degrees celsius, like comfortable tropical water. The
life down there was incredible, absolutely incredible in those days.
And I think it's been hit with environmental factors now
and coral bleaching and so on. But from what I
experienced thirty years ago as a diver down there was

(13:58):
absolutely magic. So I was hooked and as such that
the dreams of diving stayed with me even to this day,
even to this day, and I'm still an active diver
now and I still enjoy it immenseally. And that was
all thanks to my early journey down under on the
Great Barrier Reef. So yeah, just quickly. But my journey
then took me around the rest of Australia and I

(14:21):
went to the for example, Kakadu National Park in the North,
and I'm looking at you know, saltwater crocodiles that were
twenty five thirty feet long on the muddy riverbanks of
Kakkadoo National Park along that big river system. There frightening
prehistoric and I remember these sites and wonders that Australia

(14:42):
sort of threw at me. And I spent time in
the North and time down through you know Airs Rock
and Kings Canyon, back down to Kooper Pedi and those
open mines, et cetera. And I came round all the
way around Australia and back to Sydney, back down to Melbourne, Victoria,
even went across tops across to Tasmania and did a
lot of hiking over there, and then the Blue Mountains

(15:03):
in Sydney from them, and then finally across to New Zealand.
I went South Island to the Alps, and North Island
up to Auckland, then across the Fiji a bunch of
Fiji islands, then up to Hawaii a load of Hawaiian islands,
then North America, and then I ended up driving a
car across the whole of America with a load of

(15:24):
adventures there and end up in Miami, Paris, London. So
I was on the road for about a year and
a half and it was a life changer for me
really in terms of what I experienced and the confidence
that I developed and the memory. And then I figured
what am I going to do? And you asked me
at the beginning, you said about the question, so why
did you join the army? Well that actually came a

(15:46):
little bit later. So my first move was to join
a service, and I did consider, you know, the military
first off, but I ended up going into the police service.
That was my initial career and I joined an organization
called Thames Valley Police in the UK, which is sort
of west of London, the counties of Buckinghamshire in the north,

(16:08):
Oxfordshire and Berkshire which covers you know, Windsor and the Castle,
et cetera. So three big counties the west of London.
And I was working at Milton Keynes, buckingham Oxford, Aylesbury,
those kind of areas in the north as a young
police officer, and it was nine nine nine. It was
kind of rapid sort of response that I was involved

(16:29):
in chasing the nines and chasing my tail going from
job to job, and ironically I'm dealing with those young
criminals and their dolls much like myself back in the day,
and I'm picking guys up, you know, for kind of offenses
that you know, I'd sort of been there, done that,
so I guess I was quite a useful asset. And
I was able to turn around and say to these

(16:50):
young guys, look, I've been in your shoes and trust me,
you can do better. You can kind of look, this
was me, and this is how I turned it around
and kind of tried to give them a little bit
of inspiration. It didn't always work, of course, but you
tried to make a small difference cliche as it sounds.
So I did that for a few years and I
enjoyed it a lot. And again I developed myself as
an individual, as a character, and I not just developed

(17:13):
the skill set, I guess, but I ultimately was learning
to believe much more in myself and what the capabilities
could be with the mindset and ambition as well, ambition
to carry you forwards and again put your best foot
forwards always, and not be afraid to try new ventures
and to step forward into sort of new horizon, new territory.

(17:34):
So again coming back to what you asked about the army,
I joined originally from that move of actually leaving the
police on sabbatical. That's how it happened. So I took
an official career break and they said to me, okay,
so what are you going to do. And I said, well,
I'm going to probably maybe go out there in the
world and do some more diving again, because by now

(17:55):
I was a certified, qualified instructor with experience. And I
landed a job in Egypt in the Red Sea, and
I loved that. I worked for probably one of the
biggest operators down there, called Emperor Divers, and I worked
in the Weber Charmel Shaikh her Gada and Elaguna, and
I worked all around the Red Sea with the big

(18:15):
centers for the company, and I worked on liver boards
and day operations. Again it was world class diving, similar
to what I described on the Barrier reef. It was
like great visibility, warm water, amazing marine life. And again
I was hooked with the journey. But as wonderful as
it was, the industry probably wasn't enough to kind of
keep me. And I always felt that I was destined

(18:38):
to somehow a bigger kind of global adventure. So I
actually became enamored with the prospect of the forces. And
I came back from that journey with my diving and
I'd done work in Egypt, I went to do some
work in the Caribbean, and I actually got head hunted
to run an expedition in the Philippines as well, around

(18:58):
about the turn of the millennium, so two thousand and
I ran this expedition down there for about six months.
And having done all of that diving in the first
year post my journey from the sabbatical from leaving the Police,
I figured that it might be quite useful to enhance
my education a bit more. So I went off to
university and I did a languages training program and a

(19:20):
degree full time at university, and that's when I joined
the army. So I joined a unit called Cambridge University
Officer Training Corps. And it was a part time process
at university where I get to go away on weekends
and I get to learn all about the army and
I get to run around with rifle, firing blanks and

(19:42):
learning how it is to soldier. And then I actually
loved it. And they paid me, you know, few quid
to kind of sustain myself through my time at university
and you know, pay the bills, you know, pay the food,
et cetera. And it was a wonderful kind of incentive.
So join the army at weekends, get paid for it,
and learn some skills along the way. And before too long,

(20:07):
by the end of like the first semester, I was
kind of considered a trained soldier because I'd done like
this military training qualification level one. I'd learned how to soldier,
albeit at a basic level. I'd learned how to fire
a rifle. I'd learned how to patrol within a team.
I'd learned about some basic first aid and I'd learned
how to kind of look after yourself in the field,

(20:27):
you know, blah blah blah. And then from the next phase,
I was kind of invited to join an infantry kind
of training unit within the Cambridge OTC and I really
enjoyed that as well, and that really kind of motivated me.
And then I went on to do a couple of
Cambrian patrols. So people may not have heard of Cambrian
because it's obviously in England and Europe, but Cambrian was

(20:51):
all about, you know, a very gritty sort of patrolling
competition with eight men. You know, you're really soldiering at
this point, and it's considered one of the toughest patrolling
competitions in the world. Teams from all over Europe, in
fact all over the world go to do Cambrian and
many are successful, but many are not, and sometimes guys

(21:11):
get injured and in some cases there's even been fatalities
on Cambrian because of the risks associated with it. You know,
you're doing you know, steep mountain and you're crossing rivers
and again you're sleep deprived and you're pushing like fifty
kilometers with eighty plus pounds of weight on your back. Again,
that kind of journey with the Army and those kind
of experiences taught me huge amount about character and about

(21:35):
myself and perhaps what my limits were and perhaps how
far I could push things, you know, and again the
personal belief and the endeavor. And so from that, I
guess I talked about stepping stones, right, you know, when
I was a backpacker, not being afraid to take that
next step and try that new border, that new country.
I did the same thing when I was in the Army.

(21:57):
So from the junior ranks of Cambridge OTC, I actually
volunteered to take it further. It was always about volunt
so you know, just like being a diver in Australia,
I took that next voluntary step and with that I
surprised myself and I kind of did the next level
and did the next level, and you know, learned things
along the way and kind of bettered myself and enhanced

(22:20):
my qualification, et cetera. I did that with the Army
and from camberin Patrol and learning really about the nitty
gritty of soldiering. I then volunteered to go to selection
for the parachute Regiment, which was Pea Company. I think
Katrick and many people have heard about service, you know
of Airborne Forces, airborne troops, and it is probably considered

(22:43):
one of the toughest selection processes in the British Army
to become a paratrooper. And you know, that really pushed me,
That really tested me because they kind of thrash you
within kind of what feels like an inch of your life.
And it was a very very gnarly, kind of almost
sadistic sort of training program followed by one week of
Pea Company test week. And I didn't you know, I

(23:05):
didn't come through it lightly. It's not a boast. I
mean I came through the end of that absolutely beaten up,
absolutely black and blue, and I sort of felt concussed
almost from getting beaten up in the milling. But I
gave as good as I got and I think I
sort of fractured my opponent's rib, but he gave me
like a blinding black eye and sort of concussion. And

(23:26):
that was milling. That was that was That was one
test at the end of Pea Company. You know that
we went through and all of the forced marches and
high speed runs and you know, high level kind of
assault train asium apparatus that we had to do. It
was all confidence builders and testers and and if you
come through it, you're you're definitely not unscathed, but the

(23:47):
belief that you developing yourself is incredible. So I was
very fortunate. You know, I came through beaten up, black
and blue, but I got a stand up pass, which
meant everything. And that's what PEA Company was all about.
And then once I'd done that, I got put forward
for a Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. And again this
is not this is a boast, That's not why I'm
telling the story. That it's a journey that I went on.

(24:09):
And by going to Sandhurst, it was again a voluntary
agreement that I would go, and I learned more about
the sort of leadership aspects and what was at stake,
and I learned to conduct myself as a platoon commander
because they pretty much test you on the model of
one man. A junior officer will lead a thirty man
platoon and you rotate in positions. But that's what they're

(24:31):
ultimately testing you on. Can you run a platoon, can
you lead from the front, can you lead by example,
and if you're making decisions on the ground that is
going to affect the movement and the journey of the
squad or the platoon. And if you make mistakes, and
you will during testing and during your time at Sandhurst,
but will you kind of have the integrity to own

(24:53):
up for those mistakes, and will you learn from those mistakes,
and will you be sort of on the level and
be sort of true to yourself and again have that integrity.
So that's what the process is all about. And I
made mistakes. We all did, and you know, you don't
think you're going to come through successfully necessarily. But I
went through the process as a reservist, so it was

(25:15):
pretty full on. I didn't really get much sleep for
about a month, and again I surprised myself. I came
through Royal Military Academy with the pass and the commissioning parade,
and then I was a sort of a one pit
wonder and a young sort of lieutenant and then I
pretty much exhausted what was on offer with the original unit.
So the Army journey then took me finally with an

(25:37):
offer that I had to trial for UK Special Forces
from my original commanding officer at Cambridge, and he said
to me, you know, we think you'd be a good candidate.
What do you think? And I said, well, I said,
what's the worst that can happen? I fail miserably and
I come home with my tail between my legs and listen,
it goes back to what I said, if you're prepared

(25:58):
to try at least and put your best foot forward
and not be afraid to take the chances, not be
afraid to take the risk, you never know, you might
just surprise yourself. So I did exactly that again. I
put myself forward for as a reservist. It was so
it was a long road. It was a thirteen month
process with a one month pre selection and then a

(26:18):
six month sort of mountain phase followed by a six
month sort of continuation or effectively weapons and tactics and
patrolling to learn what it is to come together as
a team and operate as a Special Forces kind of soldier. So,
just to break that down, the first month was all
about sort of basic awareness and map reading and navigation

(26:42):
and a bit of sort of survival and sort of
first day just so you can take care of the
nitty gritty, and then you do a six month Mountain
phase which goes back to Wales, and it's a lot
of Brecon beacons and Black Mountain and you're very much
tested as an individual the majority of that. I mean,
you start off in small teams, but then before you
know it, you're on your own, and if you can

(27:05):
it as an individual, that's kind of what they're looking for.
So you have to have the confidence to navigate from
point A to B to C to D all those
different checkpoints through the mountain, and needless to say, the
distances between checkpoints increase, so the overall march distance of
the day will increase, and the weight that you carry

(27:25):
will significantly increase. And the time limit is based on
pretty much an average kind of speed that you need
to maintain and to get through all those checkpoints and
indeed get through the days. So it's very much a
case of individual survival. And obviously in order to sustain
the pace and to meet the demands of what's being

(27:45):
asked of you through the navigational kind of checkpoints and
challenges along the way, you have to sustain your life
to quite a high level of function as a soldier.
So what I mean by that is the body doesn't
just perform. You've got to help it along the way.
So you have to eat really well, you have to
high drake really well, and you have to take care

(28:06):
of your feet and your body in general. So you
end up with a lot of saws underfoot, blisters and saws.
You end up with a lot of perhaps saws and
welts on your back from the weight that you're carrying.
And again you've got to take care of all that
kind of business on a day to day kind of
almost what feels like an hour by hour sort of
review to sustain your healthy, your vitality, and your your

(28:28):
general sort of good performance and function, because you've got
to be moving like a freight train to maintain the
level of performance required to get through the challenges of everything.
And again, it's not so much of a boast, it's
just the way that selection sort of pans out, and
if you're successful on each phase, you'll sort of move
forwards and again, through that personal belief and awareness, I

(28:50):
was then sort of pushed forwards, and then finally I
got myself to the kind of like the latter phase,
and we're part of a team that comes together and
you're bouncing off each other and you're learning, you know,
more about what it is to soldier as a team
and to then be part of the patrols. And they
then sort of start to introduce kind of different environments

(29:12):
and so on and so forth. And then I was
successful with the journey and I came through. There were
times when I did not believe and I thought, maybe
I'm going to need to hang my boots up here
because I don't think I'm going to be able to
sort of keep going. But there was always something in
me that never allowed me to do that, and I
was like a glutton for punishment and I'd kind of
go back for more. And by holding on, that was

(29:34):
what I wanted to really mention, was that by holding on,
I was able to surprise myself and do exactly that
and just hold on. And sometimes you just need to
hold on at all costs, no matter what the price,
no matter what you're up against. You just really really
need to have that self belief and hold on. And
as difficult as it was at times, because I remember,

(29:57):
you know, just a quick sort of example, but you know,
I'd be feeling black and blue once again, I'd be
feeling so beaten up sort of sleep deprived, so malnourished
that you just don't feel like you can go on.
You know, you lose like a good chunk of your
body weight because your body's always moving at such a
high tempo and you're carrying ridiculous weight over kind of

(30:19):
silly distances, and you get so run down in the process.
You feel like giving up. You don't feel like you
can you can do it, You don't feel like you
want to go on, and mentally you feel so degraded.
But if you have that inner sort of sentiment that
in a will and that in a belief to to
just keep going, to just keep putting one foot in

(30:40):
front of the other, to just keep up this sort
of what feels like the pretense of breathing and consuming,
you know, eating, hydrating, you can sustain a level of
performance that's going to come good and get you through
what's being asked of you. And yeah, that was the
essence of what it was through the journey of my
early years of Special Forces. And then what I would

(31:03):
like to sort of think that I took forward from
that little did I know, was that level of belief,
that level of will and the hunger, and that was
what I carried forwards that individual personal hunger, so it's
probably worth mentioning. And it goes without saying that I

(31:24):
sustained a life changing accident in the summer of two
thousand and seven. So all together, by that stage, i'd
been on an eight year military journey with the two
units that I described, and I had a personal ambition
to learn to fly a light aircraft. And for the record,
this wasn't a military duty. This was a personal endeavor.

(31:45):
And I took myself off to Florida and I was
interested to learn to fly a light aircraft.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Was that just to be a hobby? Was it just
to be a hobby that you want to leave?

Speaker 3 (31:53):
It kind of was, But I was considering, you know,
the process of becoming a pilot, not just a private pilot,
but a commercial pilot as well. I'd also considered that,
and that was in as part of the game plan.
Obviously there are steps to take accordingly. So again i'd
sort of mapped out that journey in my mind and
what the ambition was and how that might present. You know,

(32:15):
you probably picked up on the fact that I wasn't
a guy that was just going to talk the talk.
I was a guy that liked to sort of walk
the walk in my own mindset, and everything I did
exactly that. I took myself off to Florida. I got
the visa from the US Embassy and off I went.
And I chose Florida because of great weather system, good
meteorological weather conditions, obviously the warmth of the chances that

(32:37):
I was going to fulfill the flying training within a
relatively limited time frame that I had. Whereas I considered
doing the training in Europe, obviously the weather was a
bit more hit and miss, especially in the UK. And
it worked out, and I went to Florida. I was
like one month into a full time flying training program.
Everything was going very well, and I was now pilot

(32:59):
in command, so flying solo without the instructors. Now I've
been solo for a run to eight days, and this
one particular day had an engine fire at altitude and
the fire that I noticed externally flared up from the
engine sort of compartment. It was billowing out. It then
entered the cockpit internally over one thousand feet indicated, and

(33:21):
it started to build up within the lower regions of
the cockpit.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Do you know how it started?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
My suspicion that it was It was oil something within
the engine manifold system, but I can't be sure, but
I suspect that it was oil. And it was a
slow progressive build up within the cockpit now, and it
was building up from where my feet were operating on
the rodder pedals. It was building up around me. And
as I was gliding in, I was thinking to myself initially,

(33:48):
am I going to go for a runway and land
it in the conventional sense or what are my alternatives?
And I actually came up with a decision to veer
away from the concrete runway in the distance below, because
the fire was building up so rapidly. It was around
about mid chest height. As I dropped half the height,
so I'm now about five hundred feet, the fire was

(34:10):
about belly height within the chamber of the cockpit, and
I had to make a decision. So I actually chose
to steer the aircraft a few degrees to my left,
aiming towards a stretch of grass in the near distance.
And the reason I did that to set myself up
for an earlier escape from the cockpit of the aircraft.
So in doing so, in steering away, I then followed

(34:33):
emergency protocol. I turned the key to the ignition off.
I turned the control so the red switches, Magneto's alphon,
Bravo off, master switch, lights, strobes, and fuel pump everything
off in sequence quite a low level. I removed my headset.
Communications with air traffic control was futile, so I sort

(34:54):
of bins the communication aspects and I was no longer communicating.
Removed the headset, unbuckled my three point harness over the
waist and across the shoulders, and opened my left hand
canopy door, and in the glide, I visually assessed it
looking forward, looking through the left and right window canopy

(35:15):
and from fifty feet forty feet, thirty feet and approximately
twenty feet, judging it purely by eye, I managed to
clamber onto the seat. I'd already opened the left hand
door to the vertical position, so clambered from the seat
out onto the left wing, approximately twenty feet above the ground,
and I managed to get myself into a sort of

(35:37):
a good old fashioned sort of exit position on the wing,
so hands above my head in prayer position, feet in
these together as I leapt and took a giant stride
leap from the trailing edge of the back of the
left wing of the aircraft. So I estimate that she
was still dropping out. And I estimate that I jumped
from a height of about fifteen feet above the ground,

(36:00):
and I was probably still running in at about thirty knots,
so probably thirty three thirty four miles an hour, fifteen
feet above the ground. When I took that jump, I
landed feet in these together hands above my head in
the long grass. I landed like a sacris buds. I
thrust forwards, and having landed on my feet, I thrust

(36:22):
forward face planted my head and my face against the grass.
Soft ground, but relatively sharp grass because it was Florida,
it was tropical grass. I had a bilateral nasal fracture,
superorbital eye socket fractures. I tore through the right side
of my nose, through the ala of my lip, all
the way through here. My left index finger, you can

(36:45):
just see there on camera, hyper extended and fractured two ribs,
collar bone fractured internally in the torso area. I ruptured
my large intestine, my colon, and I lacerated my liver
internally from that jump. I also had not just the

(37:06):
fractures that I described for the internal injuries, but I
also was sixty three percent third and fourth degree burn
over sixty three percent of total body surface area. So
I was a massive burn. And that in itself was

(37:26):
the life changing aspect.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
When you said, you're in the cockpit of the plane
and it's now up to your what waist? The fires
up to your waist? Yeah, yeah, how are you actually
controlling the plane from that calor heat?

Speaker 1 (37:43):
How the hell are you doing that?

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Because there was some there was a level of through
draft through the cockpit, so there was ventilation ducts that
were open on the dashboard, and so there was some
positive through draft being put air being pulled in in
other words, yeah, and air being drawn from the cockpit.
Now that was good because it kept me somewhat cool
even though I was on fire from the lower reaches.

(38:06):
But the burn started relatively superficially for me, and it
was being drawn, like I said, because of the slight
through draft and the slight air coming through the cockpit.
That was good from the cooling, but bad because it
was feeding the flame within the cockpit. If you can
sort of picture that, if you can understand that.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I can understand that, But I'm trying to fathom the
pain that you're going through.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, I didn't actually feel too much pain within the
cockpit because I was probably literally pumped on adrenaline having
to deal with the situation, having to think on my feet.
So i sat there in the left hand seat of
the two seater cockpit of the light aircraft, and I've
got my left handle the control stick between my knees
and my right hand on the throttle in the center
column to control the actual control and the power of

(38:54):
the aircraft. And like I say, I was on fire,
but I wasn't really feeling it too badly. Adrenaline was
probably numbing that down, no doubt about it. That one
thing is worth mentioning that when I got on the wing,
momentarily stood on the left hand wing, turned my body
to the left, and was presented by the backwash of

(39:17):
the propeller all the way down. My right hand side
was fanning of the flames. Now that wasn't good because
if you look on the right hand side, I lost
obviously significant hair and scarring. That was how it happened.
So I turned to the left and I got the
backwash of the prop which fanned me. So this was

(39:37):
windward side, and on the leeward side it's somewhat protected. Bizarrely,
I still kind of kept the hair on that sort
of side of my scalp. So the right side of
my body was absolutely mullard and very much devastated by
the fire. And it wasn't until I jumped, landed in
the long grass, rolled around and smothered the flame was

(40:00):
when the pain actually hit me like a sledgehammer at
that point, and it was like a giant tsunami of
pain that rushed over me. And I waited in the
long grass, and I was dying basically in a in
a nutshell, there's no other way that I can describe
it to you. I actually took my shoes and socks off,

(40:22):
and I tucked my socks and my laces with into
the shoes, all neatly, because I figured that, look, this
is one journey that I'm not going to need shoes
and socks for, so they were placed neatly by the
side of me. I guess that's the one element of
control that I had left. And I was a man
on the edge. I was a man on a thread,
and I was about to die, and somehow I hung on.

(40:46):
I don't know how the hell I did it, but
I hung on and I just kept holding on the
grim life that I had left, and I was blinded
by the fire because it burns to my cornea my
eyes at the time, So I had that going on,
and the massive burns that I described over sixty three
percent of total body surface area, and I, you know,
I was hurt in so many ways, like I mentioned,

(41:08):
the internal injuries, the multiple fractures from the jump, and
the total body surface area burns over sixty three percent.
The pain was off the charts, indescribable, and as I said,
I just kept holding on, and luckily for me, I
had an ambulance on scene, probably within about ten to
fifteen minutes.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
So fifteen minutes you're in the grass by yourself.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, yeah. And it was probably realistically only because of
the guy that I was. Remember who I was at
the time. You know, I was a badged soldier with
UK Special Forces. I was in tremendous condition. I was
in great shape. And if I had not been in
that physical condition, no way that I was going to
make it. I mean, I was, you know, probably akin

(41:53):
to you know, world class footballder or a boxer or
something like that. I was in great physical condition and
that was what carried me in those early stages of
being burned. I didn't have long, and I still would
have died imminently, but the ambulance got to me very quickly,
within about fifteen minutes. They must have hit me with morphine,
because life was pretty damn good. I do remember that much.

(42:16):
But I also knew in my subconscious that it was
bad news and I really didn't have long. And the
irony also was that I'd also specialized as a patrol
medic with my role with UK Special Forces, so I
understood what I was up against with the large third
degree burns, which is indeed what I was suffering from,
and I knew in all likelihood I wasn't going to

(42:38):
make it.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
What was hurting you more?

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Like?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
What was was it the internal injuries hurting you more?
Or was at the burns?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Really it was a combination, So it's a good question.
But I mean, I felt like I'd taken a punch
to the gut from like a heavyweight boxer, you know,
and he caught me off guard. Yeah, you know, That's
what I felt like I'd just taken And you know,
it felt like my insides were carved up. And then
the pain, the pain to practically my entire body, you know,

(43:07):
and scalp was was just indescribable. I knew how bad
it was. I knew that I'd just been fried from
the backwash of the propeller when I stood in the
wing momentarily. You know that that fanned the flame where
I was climbing out of the aircraft cockpit on fire.
Then I got subsequently fanned by the back of the propeller.

(43:28):
That was like walking through a giant blow torch for
several seconds before I actually managed to make the jump,
because remember I had to get on the wings, sort
of balance myself momentarily, then make the jump. It was
a hideous series of circumstances in order for me to
extricate myself from the cockpit and kind of get out clearly,

(43:50):
make the jump and land in the soft grass. You know. But,
like I said, a lot of damage in being done,
and I knew, shit, bust, my life was never going
to be the same again.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
What made you climb onto the wing? Where that idea
come from?

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Or was it just trying to well, yeah, it was
a survivor. It was a raw survival instinct as simple
as that. It was a way for me to exit
the aircraft quicker during flight and tried to land it
in the conventional sense on the concrete runway. I knew
i'd sort of made a hasty assessment in the air,
if you will. The likelihood was that fire was going

(44:25):
to overwhelm me within the cockpit. I mean, I'd already
realized that it had pretty much built up to about
half the height within the chamber. I dropped from one
thousand feet to five hundred feet above above the deck,
and the fire was already halfway up within the chamber
of the cockpit. It was a no brainer. By the
time I potentially touched down on the runway below, the

(44:46):
fire was going to be sort of completely overwhelming me
at sort of had height. So I figured the only
chance that I had was to try to exit the
aircraft cockpit quicker. And that's the decision that I made,
and that's what I did. But I only got away
with it in hindsight, by the skin of my teeth.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
I say, is this a silly question? But was there
no fire extinguish it inside that copy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:11):
There was, Actually there was an extinguisher within the back
of the aircraft, but it was in an awkward position
and it wasn't easy to get to. And I was
also too low level, so I didn't want to risk
necessarily messing around and going for that, even though yes,
it would be the absolute obvious thing to do, but
it was something that I did not do. And I

(45:32):
was too too low level and too busy trying to
actually pilot the aircraft and trying to maintain control. So
that was a big part of it. And I remember
one of the US flight instructors always said to me,
and I quote, you know, if you've got a problem
above our flyer the down aircraft, and he was right
in essence, you know, you've got to do everything in
your power to maintain control. It would be easy to

(45:53):
perhaps get distracted, and when you're very, very low level,
you cannot afford not to be maintaining control and not
to be actually in command and flying the aircraft.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, to me, sound like you weren't panicking. But were
you panicking?

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Yeah? Initially I was. Initially I did panic, and I
did gravely consider, you know, what was going on and
firing the cockpit, and I definitely did panic. And I
was panicking. My mind was racing probably down to about
the five hundred feet point, and it was then when
I had that sort of light bulb moment and I thought,
you know what, there's an alternative here, and there's an

(46:30):
alternative for me to veer away and to set myself
up for the actual emergency protocol and do what I
did to sort of exit the aircraft and make the jump,
as it were. But there's no doubt about it that
in the early phases of that scenario I was definitely panicking,
but I did manage to get a grip on the situation.
And I would like to think that maybe harks back

(46:52):
to perhaps my time in service with both UK policing
and my time in the military as well, because I'd
been there many many times over and for example, I'd
stood in the back of many aircraft when I'm just
about to jump from perfectly serviceable aircraft, you know, I'm
just about to jump out the back of a Hercules

(47:13):
see one thirty or some other smaller aircraft that I
was tasked with jumping from as a military parachutist, And
there were many times when you're in fear of your
life about regarding the scenario and what's about to go down,
and you've got to think on your feet, and you've
got a series of drills to perform in order to
make it onto the ground as safely as possible. So

(47:36):
it's kind of controlled, orderly thought process to avert panic.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
When did you actually realize how bad the injuries were?
Was it when you were inside hospital or you already knew.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I already knew, so when I'd landed in that long grass,
in that soft ground, it was an absolute no brainer.
It was completely obvious to me. I waited and I
heard the sirens in the distance, and the sirens grew louder,
and I knew that they were coming from me. And
the sirens definitely grew louder in sort of audible volume,

(48:12):
and I figured, this is me, this is me. I'm
done for. I think didn't think I was going to
be able to hold on for one and I knew
that I was burned practically from head to toe. I mean,
I didn't know the finer points of what the internal
injuries were, or indeed what the multiple fractures were and
what they represented, but I knew that I was gravely,

(48:36):
hideously burned. Over most of my body from head to toe,
and you know, you just know. I mean, if that
happens to you, you don't have to be a qualified
and trained patrol medic to understand what you're up against.
And like I said, I was hung. I was really
really hanging on. I had describe it, hence the title
of my book, Life on a Thread. I really was

(48:57):
a man on the edge, holding on and I genuinely
did not think I was going to survive that. And
how the hell I did survive I'll never know. I
put it down to three things. Quick thinking, amazing world
class emergency medical response, and incredible physical conditioning that I
was able to harness as a result of the man

(49:20):
that I was leading up until that moment in time.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Is it right that you had over fifty operations.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I've had sixty four surgical proceders under general anesthetic.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, in my life and it's been what seventeen years
since that incident in two thousand and seven. Yeah, sixty
four jobs done, which is not good fun and it
means they put me to sleep sixty four times. But
the first six months I was drug induced in US
in private hospital in Florida and Incidentally, just to give
you an indication of how bad it was, the bill

(49:55):
in Florida came to just shy of two point eight
million US dollars WAD and that was over seventeen years ago,
So yeah, it was pretty serious. You can surmise from that,
I think that how bad it was.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Did you ever have a thought when you woke up
in that hospital bed that you wish you never saved
your life?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah, yeah, many times. I mean I was in a
dark place for a long time. My friend am in
when I initially woke up in the hospital, because I
don't really remember too much of Florida because you're in
drug in juice comer. They're very very good at what
they do, and they keep you sort of mentally, sort
of stabilized almost because of the various kind of concoction
of analgesia and tetum in and stuff like that that

(50:41):
they keep you under with you're pretty much in a
pretty happy sort of status quo. But I would suggest
that when I woke up in Chelmsford Hospitals, that Burns
unit in Essex in England, six months later, the dawn
of realization of what had happened to me became instantly apparent,
and I was in a very dark place, like trying

(51:02):
to process everything. I mean, at first, I was absolutely
gobsmack that how I'd survived. I couldn't quite get my
head around the fact that I was still here. And then,
like I said, the reality kicked in and what I
was now facing. And trust me, you know, you don't
come back with glory from third degree burns, You really don't.

(51:22):
You crawl back from third degree burns. You absolutely crawl back,
hands and feet and fingertips and nails, you crawl back.
It's that much of a difficult journey. And I suppose
realistically it's my greatest achievement to date, because everything else
pales into insignificance. I talked a little bit about sas

(51:43):
training and selection and Pea Company and Samshurst and policing
and all the challenges and global travel, you know, everything,
all the challenges that I took on and everything that
I was grateful to have achieved in my version one
point zero in my old life. But and this is
a big butt, what I went through from August two

(52:06):
thousand and seven onwards, having been burned. Put everything else
into the shadows because the challenges that I faced having
to fight back from massive third degree burns over the
majority of my body were almost insurmountable. You know, I
had human donor skin, pig skin, synthetic skin, my own skin.

(52:30):
The operation tally went on, like I said, some sixty
four jobs that I had done under anesthetic. It is
really not for the faint hearted what I went through
indescribable amount of pain, trauma, suffering, and the challenge that
that imposes on the human being is like literally off
the charts. So that was my journey with you know,

(52:51):
the early two point zero Jamie Hull. That's what I
had to come through in the early phase of what
it took to get me to where I am today.
That was it, and to fight back from that was
like the ultimate, like the greatest challenge that anything and
being could face. The good news is that I went
on to slowly and tentatively take new steps. I had

(53:13):
to learn to walk, to feed, to write my name,
you know, and learn to do all that all over again.
These were the important things to get myself slowly and
surely back on track. And then with that great will
and determination, I was able to crawl back from the
brink that I described, So you know, I was a

(53:37):
man at the very lowest point of sort of humanity
and fighting back at one stage in intensive care for
six months, I was the remnants of a human being, sure,
still alive, still breathing, but I was being introbated for
to give you an indication and an understanding of what
I went through, a machine was therefore breathing through a
trachiostomy in the neck and keeping me alive. If my

(54:00):
heart would stop, which it did on occasion, they would
literally defribrillate me. In my art back online and regular function,
I was on a whole concoction of drugs and analgesia
for pain relief and antibiotics to stave off some of
the gnihliest infections on the planet, from MRSSA to C.
Difficile to MRSA. I was an adjunct of you know,

(54:27):
tubes and leads leading to machines, multiple machines again that
were keeping me alive on a daily basis for six months,
and that was my life. And I almost don't know
how I survived all of that. I really don't. And
that was six months. That was six months that I
was drug induced. So having taken those early steps to
walk and feed, et cetera, and be version two point

(54:51):
zero independent. It was really important that I tested myself
and got myself back to a level of active health.
So when I got out of the hospital, having initially
learned to walk from the beds to the en suite
bathroom and back, and then learn to walk to the
nurses station and maybe do a loop at the nursing

(55:13):
station and back in. And that was a long journey
because I was in hospital for two years. But when
I got home, I used to push the envelope on
my walking, so I actually built myself up to walking
within the local area. Then eventually I'm walking a little
bit more around the block, then maybe a mile. Then eventually,
by the end of the third year, I was walking

(55:35):
eight miles per day, and if you do the maths
on that, I was walking two and a half thousand
miles per year. And this is how I stretched myself
and pushed that envelope. And then by the end of
the third year I developed enough confidence enough stamina to
take on the London Marathon. So you know, the distance
is twenty six point two miles forty two kilometers and

(55:58):
I couldn't do it easily because by now I had
bilateral foot drop from nerve damage to my lower limb
from the surgery in America, which was permanent. But with
that will, with the newfound confidence from all the walking
that I'd done and building up my stamina, building up
my strength, I managed to get around in eight hours

(56:19):
thirty minutes, not a great time for a lot of people,
but you know what, for me, that was like a
major win because remember what I'd come back from, and
then having done one marathon, I thought, you know what,
I wonder if I could maybe improve upon that. So
a friend of mine got me a place in New
York and I did all five boroughs of New York
from stan Island through Brooklyn, Queens Manhattan, then up around

(56:43):
the Bronx, then back down to Manhattan. And I did
that in seven zero seven, and again I developed a
bit more confidence from that, and then I went back
to London to do a third marathon, and after that
I said never again. But I did manage to pull
it out the bag and I did the marathon number
three in London in six hours fifteen and that was

(57:03):
my absolute best. Def I was even having to jog
a little bit, but it was tough on my old
legs because I lost a lot of muscle with the
shin area especially. That was the fourth degree burn in
America down to the bone, so a lot of surgery
down there. So for me to do six fifteen on
a marathon was absolutely incredible effort. After that, I focused

(57:23):
on some bigger challenges. So I went to do Invictus
Games in London. I was a track athlete cyclist doing
the paloton sort of racing, and I got round the
events and is in Evictors Games competitor and finisher. And
then we did a team with the charity Help for Heroes.
I was part of a selected eight man team to

(57:45):
do Race Cross America across the USA. So this was
a true story and Racecross America was a wonderful event
that I did as part of an eight man weirded
veteran team, and we did from the beach so ocean
side San Diego in California all the way across to
Annapolis in Marya Land. We covered I think thirty one

(58:07):
hundred miles around five thousand kilometer and we did it
in seven days, seven hours and about thirty eight minutes,
so thirty one hundred miles. I think eleven states of
the US, forty four counties, and three hundred and fifty
individual US communities. We actually cycled all the way through

(58:29):
to do that as part of an eight man wounded
team of veterans, it meant a lot to all of us,
you know. And again the confidence that we developed, all
of us really as injured soldiers was a really proud
moment for us, really, And so all in all, I
felt that through that journey again the will, the determination,
and the newfound confidence in myself is Jamie Hole versus

(58:52):
two point zero was worth its weight in gold. And
then some other quick examples that I went on to
Summit Killimanjiro in Africa, which is the highest freestanding mountain,
which is just shy of five thousand, nine hundred meters

(59:13):
or so, it's just shy of six thousand meters. And
that was a pretty big deal for me again with
my legs and the loss of muscle. And I went
on and retrained as a pilot, and I got a
scholarship too.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I was actually going to ask you that I was
going to ask you that did you actually fly a
plane after all this happened?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, I did some flying with light aircraft in the
UK and with some other work in Europe as well.
But interestingly, I got a scholarship to fly hot air
balloon and I did my training in Italy and then
I went solo in the balloon as well, and eventually
got my license from the Civil Aviation Authority here in
the UK to fly balloon, which was quite an extraordinary process,

(59:53):
you know, to pilot the hot air bloon, and I
really enjoyed that a lot, and it was a bizarre thing,
you know, to find myself at altitude solo. Again. Ironic
was the fact that I had the burner like right
there above my head. I'm thinking of myself. I mean,
I've got to be pretty damn careful, especially this time around,
so I'm sure as damn it don't want to burn
the other side of my scalp.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
But the good thing about it is that you've pushed
yourself after it and like a lot of people would
have like gone through a hole and knocked themselves out
of it, but you actually got yourself out of this
hole and carried on with your life.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yeah, it meant a lot to me. And I mean
I went on as well. I trained in the dive
world to train with the British Sybacko Club as an instructor,
and I even went on with PADDY, which is the
Professional Association of Diving Instructors, probably the biggest agency in
the world for sport diving, and I became a PADDY
course director within that industry and I did my training

(01:00:49):
for that and the course director assessments in Malaysia about
six years ago. Now, I mean that was a journey
in itself. I mean it's not an easy journey, as
anyone will tell you that it goes for course director,
but you know, it's just the moral of the story is, look,
no matter what you're up against, you know, with personal
belief and great will and determination, you can surprise yourself.

(01:01:13):
And I think I'm sort of perhaps testimony to people
in the sense that I can highlight my younger journey
as a soldier and what I went through with the military, etc.
To sort of showcase. Look, with these examples, believing in myself,
I was able to achieve like the highest levels of
British military journey and achievement, but also post injury, you know,

(01:01:37):
I went on to achieve like some very senior endeavors
with piloting with the sports events that I did, But
you know, I also went on to retrain in my
own sort of personal professional domain as a pilot, as
a PODDI course director in dive industry, and as a
mountain leader as well. I did that as well, and

(01:01:58):
I went on to lead a lot of expeditions around
the world for young teams. So you don't just have
to sit back on your laurels, you know, don't just
stay sat on the sofa. Doesn't matter what happens in life.
You know, if you still believe in yourself, if you
still want it, if you're still hungry for a process,
you can get there. It's all about the belief. You
have to want it, and the question is how much

(01:02:19):
do you want something. If you want it, it's there
for the taking. And remember this is no dress rehearsal life.
It goes in pretty damn quick. You know, I'm just
about to hit my big five O this year. We
all know. It goes in pretty damn quick. You realize
once you start getting to the pearly steaks of middle age,
it's no dress rehearsal. And again, if you're hungry for

(01:02:42):
a process, if you want it, go out there and
grab it. Don't be afraid, don't be afraid to put
your best foot forward. What's the worst thing that can
happen is that you metaphorically fall on your face and
you know you have to eat humble pie. You don't
quite get there. You know you don't make the gray,
you don't make the process. Guess what, Pick yourself up,
dust yourself off, try again. Because where there's a will,

(01:03:03):
there's a way, and if you want something badly enough,
you can potentially achieve it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Well said. But you know what what, Jamie, you're very inspirational.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Appreciate that, Neil, It's for kind of you to say, mate.
But I mean, I guess I've just been trying to
live my life. It's not being that I've necessarily trying
to sort of collect medals or anything like that. It's
just I guess ultimately I tried to just live my life,
put the best foot forward. And I was never a
guy that, like I mentioned, wanted to just talk the talk.
I always wanted to get out there and live it

(01:03:36):
and actually walk that walk and have those experiences and
try to fulfill Really that's what it's all about. But
I mean, if anyone's interested in the deeper narrative if
you don't mind a shameful plug. You know, I definitely
mentioned that I was lucky. I got published with Penguin
a couple of years back with Penguin Books, and it's

(01:03:57):
called Life on a Thread by Jamie Haller, and it's
widely available on all sort of major booksellers and Amazon.
And I've been lucky. I've should that far and wide
to Australia and New Zealand and guys in the States
and have been lucky that have received a lot of
strong feedback from that. So yeah, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
You Jamie for sharing me your story.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And it's yea even even though it's been a long
haul trying to get you on it, it's been well
worth the wait. And now I know that you're working
at the Bourbon, I wish I wish they've gone in
the Bourbon now and see and seen you in your tongs.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
H