Unveiling the Shadows | Isami's Story

Isami grew up in a strict missionary household in Japan, where emotional and physical abuse were masked as religious discipline. Isolated and controlled, she’s now finding strength in healing, therapy, and music—and breaking the cycle her parents tried to enforce.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche production.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
This podcast contains discussions of abuse, trauma, mental health, and
family conflict. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Secrets of
the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle Cummings, and in
this episode I speak with Isami Dane, who is a
survivor of child sexual assault and human trafficking.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I was used for sexual favors in exchange for free
piano lessons for myself and my siblings. I remember always
sleeping with a screwdriver next to my bed. I knew
I had to have an escape plan just in case
my mom wanted to kill me. I was playing something
on the piano and all of a sudden I felt
their hand and it was not over my clothes anymore.

(00:51):
You like to kick us to the ground and then
just put his foot on our neck and he'd call
us bugs and then he laugh.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
This has been something that I've really wanted to get
you on for the past twelve months.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Believe it or not, what your story to share in
your words.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
But as I said, before we get going, I'll let
you tell me a bit about yourself growing up.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Even though I know that what you're going to tell
me is still you think it's normal. It's not normal.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
But the thing is, I just want to know you
as a person from when you can remember growing up,
but before it all happened, and if it was a
happy household, if it wasn't a happy household.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah. Absolutely. I grew up in Japan. I was born
and raised there until I was seventeen, but I had
a very strange upbringing. My parents are missionaries. I'd say
they're professional con artists. Really. If you go on Google
and you type in the name of their church, it's
their house and they're fully funded by churches in the

(01:49):
US to live there full time.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
To this day.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Still, so to this day they are still there. You
can go on Google Maps and it is there. If
you type in Scooy Baptist Church. It is a real location.
It doesn't have any reviews though. I was never a
reason in this place, but it's their house. Wow. Yeah.
But I lived in that home since I was like
sixteen something like that. So they had a ministry until

(02:15):
I was about fifteen, but even that was you could
hardly say it was anything legitimate. My dad always had
anger issues and so there was a lot of fighting
that happened amongst church members and a lot of disagreements.
My home was not a happy home. I honestly don't
remember a time where my parents were not fighting, usually
about money or anything they could think of. There was

(02:36):
probably a fight that was going on. My parents were
both physically abusive. My dad was more physically abusive than
my mom, So it was not a safe place for me.
And when I was about nine years old, I became
unfortunately a victim of familial trafficking. And that's when a
family member uses another family member in exchange for good services,

(02:58):
that type of thing. And so I was exchanged out
and used for sexual favors, change for free piano lessons
for myself and my siblings.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So you have brothers and sisters, I do.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, So I have an older sister and then I
have a younger brother. Growing up for us though we
were treated a little bit differently. It's also part of
very traditional Japanese culture where the first ward male is
kind of seen as god pretty much because they're the
name carrier, first boor Yeah. So my brother was always

(03:32):
treated differently than me and my sister, So he had
a lot more freedom growing up as a male and
then my sister and I we were dealt with a
little bit more harshly, a little bit more strict. But
being the middle child, I felt like I was targeted
a lot by the person who did end up sexually
abusing me, because one, they were able to abuse me

(03:53):
in front of my mom and not have any repercussions.
And two, they also knew very well my household dynamic.
They had brought me to a point where I trusted
them very much, so and so they knew about my dad's,
ay your issues. They knew about what I wasn't allowed
to do at home. They knew that I constantly lived
in fear of telling the truth to adults or sharing

(04:14):
how I was feeling. So they exploited that and I
ended up in this awful situation. But yeah, home was
not a happy place for me, nor a safe place.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Did did any of your brothers and sisters say the abuse?
Did you ever see the abuse to them or did
they see the abuse to you?

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah? So, as far as a physical abuse in the home,
that happened of all three of us. Actually, my brother
did receive physical abuse from my parents as well, so
we saw that happen to each other. The sexual abuse,
on the other hand, not so much so. My brother
had no idea, and I told my sister after we
were an adult, and we did end up talking about it.

(04:52):
Turns out the person did not sexually abuse her, but
I guess they made some comments about her, like just
said some really inappropriate things to her when she was
younger too as well, But they never touched her or anything,
at least from what she's told me. But home was
not a safe place for any of us. I remember
as a kid my parents had very interesting views when

(05:15):
it came to taking care of their kids and family.
And this happened multiple times where either I would have
an injury, or it happened a lot with my brother
because he would skateboard a lot, but he would have
an injury and my parents would either refuse to take
him to the doctor or wait for hours before they
would take him or myself to see a professional. I

(05:35):
remember one time I do believe this was an accident,
even though a lot of things were done intentionally in
my home. It was in the middle of winter and
we had a kerosene stove and my mom had a
kettle of boiling hot water on the kerosene stove and
my brother was sitting in front of it and he
was reading and she tripped over him and she dropped
the kettle of hot water on the back of his leg,

(05:57):
and it burned the whole back of his calf, and
it was pretty bad. And rather than taking him to
the hospital, and it was snowing that day, but it
wasn't to the point where they couldn't have taken him
to the doctor, the hospitals were open. Instead of taking
him to a hospital, my parents were worried about being

(06:17):
questioned for child abuse. My dad went to the pharmacy
and got gaus and bandages and took care of it
at home. Wow, so he was not treated. As far
as I'm aware. He still has that giant scar on
the back of his leg. And then there were multiple instances.
I actually have a scar on my lip right here
where I was playing hide and seek with some of

(06:38):
the kids at a church we used to rent a
building when I was really little, and one of the
older kids accidentally slammed the door in my face and
it ended up knocking me out. I passed out and
I woke up and I had a giant cut in
my face and it was a two story building, and
I went upstairs to go see my mom, and I
showed her and she immediately panicked because there was blood everywhere.

(07:00):
But my dad was going to have to preach that
afternoon since we were renting the building and our time
slot was in the afternoons, and so rather than taking
me to the hospital, they had me hide in a
storage closet and hold my face with the gauze. And
here I am like maybe ten at this point. Sometimes
I do have PTSD, by the way, and sometimes those

(07:22):
memories are a little bit out of order, unfortunately. But
I just remember leaning over on one of the shelves
and there was like books and all kinds of things
stacked up in there, and just feeling very sick because
there was no air ventilation, and just having to sit
there crying in this storage closet waiting for my dad
to be done. And then they finally took me to

(07:43):
the doctor. So there was at least a six hour
time gap from when that happened to when I went
to the doctor. The blood had already dried, and I
just remember the surgeon scolding my dad and telling him
like this is a girl, like she's going to grow
up with a giant gash on her face? Is this
how you want her to grow up? What kind of

(08:03):
adult are you to let a child suffer like this
for hours? Because he could tell that everything had kind
of like and so he did his best. But I mean,
I can't really see it. Most people can't if I
cover it up with makeup. But I just remember thinking, wow,
this is like the first time I've ever seen an
adult like confront my father for his bad behavior. And

(08:25):
I thought that was so cool. Oh my god, this
is a really cool guy.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
But what about your relatives, Like, wouldn't they see injuries
to you or your or your bros and sisters? And
questioned your mom and dad.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know, that's a great question. So with my American grandparents,
I rarely saw them because I grew up in Japan.
We didn't go to the States very often. But my
Japanese grandparents I would go to their house a lot.
But my dad fought with them quite often, and so
their relationship got estrange the older that I got, and
then he had off and on relationship with his sisters,

(09:00):
and so I remember going to their houses and having
a great time and just getting to be a kid.
But Also, I was very young, so I don't know
what they were fighting about. I do remember hearing the
phone call of my dad cutting off my grandmother. I
was probably like thirteen. I just remember him talking to
her on the phone and telling her she wasn't going

(09:21):
to be allowed to see her grandkids again. So I
don't know what the fight entirely was about, but I
remember being devastated because to me, I don't Again, I
don't know what happened. From what I understand, my dad
was also abused as a kid, but to me, it
was like, you're ripping my family away from me because
that was my safe place to go. I did have

(09:41):
an aunt, an American aunt she has since passed away,
who did confront my parents right before I went to college.
So I was Aniaxic at one point. I used to
know conversions very well into metrics. Unfortunately, I've been very
Americanized living here a little too long. But at one
point I was seventy two pounds as an eighteen year

(10:04):
old going on to college, and I remember my aunt
confronting my parents, telling them, you know, she's probably not
going to last much longer. I was in her backyard
and i'd walked inside. I just remember seeing her crying,
and she was very upset that my parents weren't doing
anything about it or taking me to go see a doctor.
So I do remember seeing her confront them. She didn't

(10:27):
really have much say, of course, as far as like
making other things happen, but they were very careful too
to make sure the adults were around wouldn't know what
was going on, or they kept us isolated from people
who would have probably said something, what did.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Your dad preach?

Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know, it's not me like he would be preaching
to people, but then he comes home and abuses you
like it's very weird.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
It is very weird, and that's something I've had to
come to peace with. I currently identify as a Christian,
and that wasn't something that I brought into my life
until many years later. It wasn't until I was about
twenty three that that happened. But growing up, it was
difficult for me because I would see my dad talking
in front of people. Now, granted, as time went on,

(11:16):
that crowd of people slowly started to dwindle down with
his anger issues, but I would see him talking to people,
counseling people, and then come home and do the exact
opposite of what he told other people to do, and
so that was difficult for me to see the way
he treated my mom. But I will say they did
use a lot of scripture to emphasize what they wanted

(11:41):
to teach. So, for example, there are passages in scripture
that talk about how the family dynamic should work right,
so it talks about husbands, wives, children, that type of thing.
But what they would fail to talk about was the
equality in that relationship. So there was always an exaggeration
of the female role, so a female should behave this

(12:03):
way or that way, but then there was no conversations
about what would be there afterwards. Like there's a specific
passage in scripture that talks about how parents are not
supposed to provoke their children to anger, meaning that if
you're going to parent a child, then you should have
your own emotions in check and not be disciplining a
child out of your own anger and your own rash decisions,

(12:25):
so that way you're raising them with love. That was
never talked about. They would only emphasize the fact that
a child was sobey the parents. So it was a
lot of like very disproportionate teaching when it came to
that type of thing, and then if I ever had
any questions like well, why does it say this, but
you guys say this, it was well, don't question the
pastor because they're the main authority. But pastor, of course

(12:48):
was my dad, so conveniently he was God and you
had to do whatever he said. So there's a lot
of manipulation to people thought we were weird.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Well, the thing is like, if I'm seeing about this family,
this family, oh, this is going on in family? You
see then you've got a bruise here, or your sister's
going to bruise there, or you don't look well, surely
people would talk and around.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
I think my parents were very great at isolation, and
so I think that's why they had to like push
people away consistently that had any questions at all.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Is that why you were homeschooled?

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
So it's a control fact.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Oh. Absolutely. They did their best to keep us illiterate.
So my homeschool program was in English. Obviously I lived
in Japan. They refused to teach us the Japanese language
on how to read and write, so I had to
teach myself that so that way I could be literate
in my own language. Obviously I was fluent in speaking,
but that wasn't something that I knew until later on,

(13:49):
where I taught myself. But yeah, they made sure that
we didn't know how to use a phone. We didn't
know how to use a train system. They kept things
very strict. Now, with my brother, after I left and
went to a very very intense religious school for college,
he was allowed to do a little bit more ride
the bus system and things like that because he was
a boy. But my sister and I, we did not

(14:11):
have any of those privileges.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Did you ever feel like running away?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Oh? Yeah, all the time.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
You didn't try.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
I think there was another thing that my parents were
great at too. Is this the fear tactic. So I
knew where my passport was at all times, but I
had no idea how to get to it, so it
was always in a safe by my parents' bed. Yeah,
I thought this through. It was in a safe by
my parents' bed. And because I didn't go to school,
I didn't have a school ID, so I didn't have

(14:40):
any other forms of identification. My mom actually still has
my legal birth certificate to this day. She never gave
it to me. I was not allowed to have that
even as an adult, so there was a lot of
restriction and control. The crazy thing though, is and I
recently remembered this, but we had bars on our windows
a lot one of the apartments that we rented when

(15:00):
I was like maybe eleven twelve years old. That was
part of the apartment, so it wasn't like they installed
them on there. But I remember always sleeping with a
screwdriver next to my bed because my mom would get
irrationally violent sometimes, and I think in the back of
my mind, I knew I had to have an escape
plan just in case my mom wanted to kill me

(15:21):
or my sister. I know that sounds like crazy, but
she laid her hands on my sister and me many times,
or she was like strangling us, and my dad would
do that too, and so I think, with that fear
in my head, I thought, Okay, well, if I have
a screwdriver next to my bed in a flashlight, if
something goes south, then I can escape because I'll have

(15:42):
a way to get this off of my window and
get out. I never tried it because I knew I
couldn't get very far. I didn't have access to enough
money to get anywhere. I didn't know how to use
a bus, use a phone, or even have identification, so
I was kind of trapped. And then as I got older,
I thought more about suicide as a way out. But
then I also thought about my brother because he was

(16:02):
younger than me, and if I had left, either died
by suicide or left by running away, and I left
him there, I knew that my parents' anger issues would
come out on him. So I couldn't do that, And
I think that's what really stopped me from doing any
of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
So when you're in the house and you're sleep, was
the rules in that house set every day for you?
Like it you couldn't do even in your own house.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Oh yeah, there were a lot of rules, very strict,
so it depended on how old we were. But we
had specific bedtimes where lights had to be out in
our room. And I understand that there are bedtimes for
young children like that. It's pretty common, or screen time limitations.
That type of thing is pretty common, But it wasn't
really like that. It was don't make too much noise
even if you go to the bathroom. If I woke

(16:53):
them up while I was going to the bathroom, I
could get in trouble just by being too loud with
opening the door or getting a drink of water. I
was not allowed to go get water in the middle
of the night because that would be too disturbing for them.
There were also specific times I was allowed to eat,
even as a teenager, so even if I was hungry,
I was not allowed to eat unless it was a
specific time that they had set for me. And so

(17:14):
there were just so many strict rules and regulations. Everything
was regimented. From the time I got up to the
time I went to bed. There were rules in place
of what I was not allowed to do. I wasn't
even allowed to listen to specific music, which is very strange,
even Christian music. If it had drums in it, I
wasn't allowed to listen to it because that was too

(17:35):
close to rock music according to my parents. My parents
weren't too smart though, because when I was about fourteen
or fifteen, we were homeschooled through an American program. But
basically what she would do is she would say, here's
the textbook, here's the answers, and she'd send in the tests.
And that's how we were able to get certificates that

(17:56):
we were in school. And so in Japan the only
way you're allowed to homeschool is if one of your
parents is registered as an international person, would was my mom.
Or two, you can convince the Japanese government that your
child is being bullied at school and so they need
a private tutor. They convinced the Japanese government that my
mom was my private tutor, and as a Japanese citizen,

(18:19):
I was allowed to remain at home with these certificates
that my mom pretty much forged for us to have
straight a's in school to suffice the needs of my education. Now,
they were like, you know what, let's just throw a
computer with full on internet access in her room at fourteen.
So they did that, and that's how I learned about
the outside world. And I was chatting online with god

(18:41):
knows who, probably older men from who knows where, But
here I am like fourteen, fifteen years old discovering the Internet,
and my parents would have like specific times they would
plug it and unplug it, and I think it was
just because they weren't technologically savvy. They didn't realize what
was out there, so they thought like innocent little me
wouldn't know anything, right, So I was like chatting with

(19:03):
people in the States, and that's actually how I made
friends and stayed halfway sane. But they would send me music,
and that's how I fell in love with bands like
Green Day, Avril Levine, Like I still love those bands
to this day because those were my escape routes for
music and they had no idea. They probably thought I

(19:23):
was listening to the Bible or something.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
But that's funny, though. Did you use on the internet?
Did you try to reach out the help?

Speaker 3 (19:32):
No? Actually, so I didn't reach out for help because
I didn't know that I could. Here's another sad thing
is that I thought all families were like this. I
genuinely thought all parents were abusive, and I think the
people that I had met when I sometimes we would
travel to the States, and when we would come to
the States, it was a very interesting way of life.

(19:54):
So we would have a home base and it was
usually a house that someone generously offered to us for
very low rent, or an extra home someone had, or
a mother in law suit or something we would stay
out of. So we would stay there and then we
would travel and go to all these different churches there
were some days we would start out and usually it
was North Carolina Virginia area because that's where my mom's from.

(20:17):
We would start out in one of those places and
we would end up in Indiana traveling to a different
church and having a different location that we would go
to like every day, or if there was a missions conference,
we would do that. And so there wasn't a lot
of sleep for me either as a kid traveling in
these places. But I would meet other kids at these locations,

(20:39):
and a lot of them were experiencing the same thing
I was. So I think this further had that confirmation
bias or whatever you call it, of me thinking that
all families were abusive. So we would confide in each other,
Like I had a friend that I was super close with,
and she would tell me like if her dad got
mad at her that day or something happened in the home,
and then I would share with her and be like, yeah,

(20:59):
this is happening. And I never explained about the sexual
abuse to anybody because I felt for that. But yeah,
I had other friends that I would talk to about
abuse that was going on, and I think we all
just thought it was normal.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
When there's abuse a home was there abuse on violence
between your mom and dad.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember many times where my mom
would throw things at my dad, or my dad would
throw things. My mom would break things, my mom would
put her hands on my dad. I don't really remember
a time my dad laid hands on my mom, it
could have happened. I do remember many times my mom

(21:40):
laying hands on my dad, though she would try to
like slap him or hit him. She would also pretend
as if she was going to harm herself in front
of us, So she would have a knife out and
pretend like she was going to stab herself. I remember
having nightmares as a little kid, being so scared my
mom was going to hurt herself, and so at a

(22:01):
very young age, I was constantly on eggshells, like just
being so scared, like, oh what if I do something
and I upset her and she hurts herself, Like that's
going to be my fault. And when you're that little,
like you don't know, like your parents are your parents,
and you still want their approval, you love them. I
still love my parents genuinely, but I do I do.

(22:22):
I wish the best for them. I hope that, yeah,
I hope one day there's a turning point for them
where they look at their life you have.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
There's not one bit of your body that's saying wants
to distance yourself from them at all after what they've.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Done to you.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Well, as far as distancing, yes, I want nothing to
do with them, absolutely. I quit communicating with them in
twenty seventeen, And you know, I was really struggling with
that because my father had gotten really sick and I
was in the States. Both my siblings were in the States,
and I was the only one that had like vacation

(22:59):
that I could take and leave my job and go
check on them. So I did that, and I noticed
a lot of patterns that were still occurring, which ultimately
is what ended with my dad being in the hospital
with a bleeding ulcer. So my mom has a hoarding problem.
And also it's very strange growing up because she would
spend her money on all kinds of little things like

(23:21):
our grocery. Money would be spent on trinkets or things
that she wanted to buy for herself, but then when
it came down to our food, it was as cheap
as possible, as little as possible, and sometimes that meant
having expired things in the home, and so my dad's
consistent diet was preserved foods like instant noodles, And it

(23:43):
wasn't that they couldn't afford proper food, but that's what
she was buying to feed him, and so it was
to the point where it was making him sick, and
with all the stress and anger issues. When the doctor
saw him, he thought my dad had been a chainsmoker
for twenty years. My dad has not smoked since he
was probably thirty, and so was his health was that bad?
So I went over there, and unfortunately, later on after

(24:07):
I came home and talked to my siblings and discussed
with them, probably like a home treatment plan for my
dad or possibly hiring someone to help them, we had
a skype call with them which ended in my dad
going off and saying that he didn't want to see
me anymore, he didn't need us in their lives all
this stuff, And so I had experienced that before with

(24:27):
my dad, where he had disowned me, and I knew
that I mentally could not take that again, just because
it was this constant roller coaster of like one day
you'll love me, one day you want, one day you want,
this back and forth that I'd experienced my entire life,
and at that point I was just ready to just

(24:48):
not fight back and let it go. So the last
words I ever said to my dad over the skype
call was I love you both, but I'm sorry I
can't be in this conversation anymore. I clicked off the
call and left. Now, through my therapy, I've learned that
it's okay to be angry, and I went through an
entire phase of just unleashing that rage in healthy doses. Obviously,

(25:14):
there was one point where my therapist was like, sometimes
you just gotta yell at the wall, and growing up
I wasn't allowed to be angry and I had already
dealt with I had some angry issues as an adult,
like nothing that I like laid hands on somebody for
anything like that, but to the point it scared me
where I was like, I need to get help for this,
and I did so. I did see a counselor for

(25:35):
that earlier on because I was married at the time
and I realized the way I was speaking to my
ex spouse was not okay by any means, and so
I chose to get help for that and decided, can
I just ask you.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
So I didn't actually know you were being married before,
But was that difficult for you? Being married?

Speaker 4 (25:57):
And like, I know you're with someone now, but being
married and sort of like traumatized from what you went through?
Was it difficult arguments or sexual stuff happening? Would you
clamb up?

Speaker 3 (26:10):
I would say it was both, because you know, I
can't really speak on behalf of this person. They're not
in the room, and so I don't want to say anything.
It was not a healthy relationship. I can say that,
you know, I can take ownership for my part. That's
what I can do. And so what I can tell
you is that my upbringing definitely caused a lot of
toxicity and I could recognize that in myself now. The

(26:33):
whole reason I went and saw a counselor was one
day my ex spouse went to playfully slap me on
the behind. Never had been an issue before, and all
of a sudden, I snapped and I turned around and
I started yelling at them. I told them, don't ever
touch me again, and I just got very angry. And
that was never an issue before, and something just triggered

(26:57):
in me. And it went on for months and months
where I was scared of even being hugged or you know,
any of that stuff was an instant trigger, and so
I did get help for it. And that's the first
time I ever ever in counseling discussed the sexual abuse.
And so I had suppressed it so far that I
thought it was never going to affect me or bother

(27:19):
me in my life. But when my counselor, who happened
to be my pastor, asked me like, hey, you know,
this is pretty common with survivors, and you're gonna have
to be honest with me, but have you ever been
sexually abused? And this tears. I had never. I told
my partner at the time a little bit about it,
but never to that detail of what had happened, how

(27:40):
old I was, and so all these details started resurfacing,
and so it did affect me for quite some time.
I did end up working through it, and I did
end up getting to a point where I was comfortable
in my body and sexuality again. But yeah, it did
affect me for some time. With all of that, Can I.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Discuss who are you most scared of your moment?

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Your dad as a child. Definitely my dad, just because
I never knew with him if he was going to
be happy or angry, or it just seemed to be sudden,
and anything could set him off. A loud noise if
I was laughing too loud, or another time he punched
me because I wasn't smiling. There was all kinds of

(28:24):
things that could just set him off and upset him,
and I never knew what that was going to be,
and it was so unpredictable. So there was this constant
fear of how he was going to react, and I
was always scared to tell him about things other adults
would do, whether it was the abuse that was happening.
Actually never told him because I was afraid of how

(28:45):
he would react. I also knew that that toxic dynamic
between him and my mother where you know, some days
I would hear him talk so negatively about her if
she wasn't in the room, he had nothing but awful
things to say. But the second I would tell him like, hey, Dad,
bom did this the other day, or if I I
felt courage enough to say, like my mom had done

(29:07):
something inappropriate or made me feel concerned, and if she
was in the room, he would automatically be on her side,
and they both turn against me. So I would never
know if he was this safe version that I could
talk to. But there is a part of me that
holds on and this is very hard for me, but

(29:28):
to some good memories that I have with my dad,
and I think this is what's allowed me to release
a lot of that anger. I actually have a picture
of my dad as a kid sitting on my entryway.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Do you sometimes wish that it didn't happen? Is that
what happens when you'll get in abuse that much that
you just think maybe it'll stop tomorrow, you know what
I mean, And you try and block it out. Because
when you turned around and said to me, like, I
seen a picture of you in hospital with your father
and I think it's twenty seventeen or something like that, yep,
and you'll sit and you'll sit and be beside him

(30:05):
now because of I know your story from what I've researched.
I was trying to get myself to gather how can
she sit there and be so loving to somebody who
has totally abused there for her entire life, not being
the father that she's wanted, And I look at myself.

(30:26):
I haven't spoken to my mother since two thousand and eight.
You know what I mean, She di only and I'm
a different person. I'm very strong headed, and you know
what she said to me by saying that I no
longer exist, I'm dead to her. So I'm very strong
where I won't go back, I won't ask to come back,
and I don't talk to my two stepsisters and my

(30:49):
two and my one step brother because of the same reason.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I wasn't abused. So I can't really put that into
an a take.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
But I'm just trying to get my head round how
someone can abuse you to the extent but you can
still sit there next to them. You loved them, and
I've never done anything bad towards you.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I think this is where a couple things come into play.
One psychologically would be the trauma bond of that abuse.
Are also offering comfort, So, especially when this happens to
kids with my mom, I would see her, you know,
and I have. I have very different feelings towards my

(31:30):
mom than I do my dad, and I think it's
because I can empathize with my dad because I know
he was abused growing up.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Well, hold on, is that an excuse You're trying to
say it to your dad's it Is that an excuse?

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Great question, that's a great question. I wonder if it is.
Sometimes I wonder if there's a part of me that
tries to justify his behavior. If I'm being fully honest,
none of what he did was okay at all. But
I guess it is that trauma bond of especially as
a kid, when you have you know your dad and

(32:02):
you do have some good memories, and then there's it's
taken away. And I just remember my dad being a
totally different person when my mom wasn't around, Like when
my grandmother in the US passed away, she came to
the States for about four weeks and I had the
best time with my dad. It's like a totally different person.
I just remember we would play in the house, he'd

(32:24):
take us to the park, and the second she came home,
the fighting started again. And so those are really early
memories for me. I think another thing I've come to
peace with is knowing that I will most likely never
have a relationship with my parents. Ever. They're older, they're
set in their ways. I don't really see them changing

(32:46):
unless there's an act of God or for whatever reason.
And I hope this happens before they pass but there's
some reason where they're like, you know what, we have
not had very good standards for ourselves. We have not
been good people, and you know, this is where it ends,
and this is where we decide the last few years
we're going to do better and maybe seek help or

(33:08):
counseling or something. If they did that, you know, I
don't know if I would let them back into my life,
but I'd be very happy for them. But at the
same time, and I know everyone deals with this differently,
and so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.
For some people, it makes sense to be angry. It
makes sense to hold that against someone and remind themselves like, hey,

(33:29):
this is why I'm not anywhere near these guys.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Do you think you're waiting or you'd like them to
stand up and say what they've done?

Speaker 4 (33:38):
Because I know I apologies, not that I've used this
usually say sorry, sorry, sorry so many times.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but are you but are you
waiting for them to stand up and go this? Yes,
I know I did this wrong, I shouldn't have done it.
Is that what you're waiting for?

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Do you think I don't think that's realistic? To be honest,
with you. I don't think they are capable of that.
It's kind of like a wouldn't it be nice type feeling,
But I don't. I don't see that happening.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, here's here's another question for you.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Sure you're with your partner, now you decide to have kids,
would you let your kid go near your parents?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
No? Absolutely not. No, they would probably not ever know
about them ever. Yeah, absolutely not. I would not want
any child near my parents.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
So then that answers the question before you know what
I mean, Jesus, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Like that, when you put something that really you love
in front of you, like and you're going to be
a protector of your child and your the kids that
you have, you've just.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Answered your question. You know what I mean? You wouldn't
let them anywhere near your parents? No? Exactly.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Yeah, that's why it was kind of a big gobsmack
that And I know it's parents and it's not you know,
I know, put it this right.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
I am.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm very strong.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
I don't miss my mom because you know they If
if somebody can say that to their own child, then
that's the real you.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
And I'm not gonna I will change for you.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
But what I didn't get was, like I saw I
was trying to get my heads around for your father
to abuse you like he did and your mother, but
your mostly father because it was the pitch and you
were smile.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I was like, I just know I couldn't do that.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
But then again, it's like, you know, your people are different,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (35:26):
And as I said, you're probably sometimes you hope that
things could have been different. And growing up as a child,
your daddy's gil, you were hoping that you would be
Daddy's guil, you know what I mean, Doddy's little girl.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, I had hoped that. I think I saw that
with my sister and my dad. So my sister was
always his favorite, and he hated me, or I thought
he did growing up. It was it was very strange
because he hated his middle sister, and because I was
a middle daughter, he often compared me to her as
a young kid, which is not fair in any way,

(35:58):
but he would often say, oh, you're going to grow
up to be like Kumiko, which is his sister, And
I'm just like a little kid wondering what that's supposed
to mean. And then as I got older, I realized
he hated her, and a lot of that physical abuse
was taken out on me. Sometimes I wonder if he
was thinking about his sister and he was just so
angry and wrapped up in his own thoughts. And they

(36:20):
say that when you are in that much rage, you
are in a state of temporary insanity. And so you
have this clinically insane person beating a child, and God
knows what's going through their head. And so I think
that was another reason why when I even noticed a
glimpse of that anger within myself, I wanted to get help,
because I've been the recipient of that face looking at

(36:43):
me where nobody's home, nobody's there. It's just rage, and
you have someone who is clearly unwell harming you. When
you receive that as a young kid, you have two choices.
You're either going to repeat that cycle because that's all
you know and I was headed that way, or you

(37:05):
look at it dead in the face and you say,
I will go to Helen back whatever it takes to
make sure that it ends with me and I'm not
doing this to another human being. And so yeah, I
look back at all that, and granted, since that photo
that you saw. There's been a lot of work that
I had to do of letting go, and I you know,

(37:27):
ended up in a very dark place after that happened,
just this kind of this dissociation between reality of like, Okay, hey,
you know what it saw me. Your parents don't want you.
That's the reality. Your parents have never treated you, right that,
and then this young child version of me hoping waiting
with open arms like is today going to be the day?

(37:49):
Like there's this disconnect, and it ended up landing me
in a psychiatric facility where I was a threat to
myself because I was suicidal and unable to cope with
how much pain I was in. And so that point,
I've had to do a lot of deep healing. I'm
still in therapy. I've had to do a lot of

(38:10):
deep healing, a lot of work. You know. There have
been times where people have told me like, hey, I
think your parents are coming to the States on X
y Z date. And my answer to them is I'm
not going to see them because I know with the
healing that I've had to do, regardless of if I
wish no ill towards them or would not do anything

(38:31):
to harm them from my side, There's just no reason,
there's no conversation to be had at this point. You know,
I've found my new family, which are people that I've
chose to be in my life, and they've been more
family to me than anyone ever has been blood related.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
So what's the worst thing that you did to you?

Speaker 3 (38:52):
How much time do we have that.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
What really scared you at that time?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
What? Like?

Speaker 4 (38:58):
You know, I did read on one of the old
posts that he used to put himself on your neck
to what you guess for a Yeah, uh, that.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Was a rough one. Yeah. He liked to kick us
to the ground and then just put his foot on
our neck and he'd call us bugs and then he'd
laugh and we'd be gasping for air, and it was humiliating, honestly.
I just I think now that I look back, you know,

(39:31):
he never brought us to the point where we passed out. Yeah,
so I know I wouldn't have died, But calling someone
an insect and kicking them to the floor telling them
that they're disposable, no human being should ever be spoken
in that way.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
When you were talking about he would he would hate you,
We told him like a full hit.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, closed fist, a slap to the face,
or kick with his feet that was pretty common. Being
kicked to the ground and being stepped on the neck
that was pretty traumatizing. But I think for me the
worst of it was seeing him abuse my brother.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I'm not being able to do anything. Yeah, did your
brother ever try to fight.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
By you would fight back for me sometimes, Yeah, So
that that was very hard for me to watch growing up.
Oh I'm not a happy home.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, wow, you need to take a minute. You're okay?

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, Like that was intense and I just want to
now move on to now where your your kind of mother.
This is another thing I was trying to get around
because but you answered it for me before with the
free lessons to be a pianist and all like that.
But I thought, surely there's got to be some motive
that she's doing this to gain herself. But really it

(40:49):
wasn't really, it was it was petty what she was
asking for to make you go through yes and no.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
So with my family, here's where things get complicated. With
my mom, there is always an ulterior motive. Always, whether
it's music lessons or keeping us from going to school,
there was always an ulterior motive and the piano lessons
were actually in order for them to get a paycheck.

(41:19):
So whenever we would travel to the US, we were
their circus act. So all three of us would play
instruments and we were the opening act basically, So we
would get up on stage in front of these people,
sometimes thousands of people out of church, and all three
of us would play instruments together piano, My sister played

(41:39):
the flute, I played the violin. At one point my
brother played the guitar. So music lessons were crucial and
they were more important than education in our home. We
would practice anywhere from two to four hours a day
on instruments just so we could get everything in synchrony
in perfect for when we would perform in the States.

(41:59):
So during those usually it was anywhere from six months
to two years. So we would to the US maybe
like every three to five year or something like that,
and then we would stay for that length of time.
We would be traveling to different churches in different cities
every night, and so sometimes we would be in one
city on a Sunday morning and Sunday night would be
in another city. But it was the same thing over

(42:19):
and over and over again. So we had like five
to six songs that we had to know perfectly, so
we would perform those and then my dad would get introduced.
He'd go up and he would speak, and then we
would close out with a song and then that would
be the end. And usually the general consensus was that
if a family can be able to raise children that disciplined,

(42:42):
then there must be love, education, and well provided family
members in the home. Right, So that was what people
were led to believe. They thought, because we had these
things going for us, that our parents looked out for us. Well, well,
actually it was the complete opposite. But there was an
ulterior motive for my mom having a state music lessons.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
Wow. Yeah, so I told me through the first time
she actually told the pianists, actually tell me about the
pianist fast.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
It was very confusing for me. I met this person
when I was very young. The sexual abuse started when
I was about nine. I do have PTSD, so memories
kind of are like this sometimes, like I can tell
you in full detail what happened at that person's apartment
from the time I got there, some blank spots to

(43:36):
how I felt, and then a liquor store light flashing
on the way home and then feeling sick and wanting
to throw up the next day. I can tell you
all that, but I can't tell you like random memories
of did I have a good day if I was
allowed to go to a friend's house one day, or
like I can't even tell you, like what my favorite

(43:57):
movie was in that timeframe, Like I don't know. But
the sexual abuse started when I was about nine years old.
This person started going to our church. So they were married.
It was a husband and wife couple, and they had
moved from South Korea to Japan. And there were a
lot of missing pieces to their story, one being that,

(44:19):
you know, South Korea is a very advanced country. There
was no need for her to move to Japan and
not be able to go back. There should have been
no reason for that. And to leave a child, so
she had an infant that she was not allowed to see.
I don't know why. That should have been another red
flag too, that they had to leave in Korea, and
they left with their husband, came to Japan. They were

(44:41):
working in like the music industry for a while, their
vs expyer they stayed and then they were working in
a factory and somehow it ended up at our church,
and so there were a lot of like questionable things.
And they also came from a very well established family
with money, so there was no need for them to
struggle in another country and leave their child back home

(45:03):
unless there was a legal reason they could not go back.
So I never understood all of that. I was never
told the full story, but there's a lot of question
marks with that as to why. So that was the
person that started going to our church. Then they made
friends with everybody, and my parents had somewhat of a
ministry until I was fifteen. So as things progressed my

(45:26):
dad's angry issues got worse, people just started leaving right
and left. But at that point, when I was about nine,
there were several people still attending, so they became the
church pianist, and their husband was also at the church
too as well. Now, behind closed doors, there were a
lot of things happening with that person that they probably

(45:49):
couldn't express publicly. And so again I want to make
this very clear, I am pro LGBTQ. Like, if this
is how you identify, this is not me saying that
everyone is like this. I do not want anyone to
get that impression. But this person was definitely closed in
some way. I don't know what they were identifying as,
but I do remember them having a girlfriend that they

(46:11):
would hide. And I knew about this girlfriend because I
was once at their apartment and that person was there.
And then also when they were home, they would wear
men's clothes, and so there was something going on with
this person where they could not express themselves. And there
was also I'm assuming some sort of pedophilia that had
happened back home and that's why they weren't allowed to

(46:33):
see their kid. I'm going to assume it was that.
I don't know, because somehow they ended up molesting me,
And it was like a slow progression where that person
got to know my family very well. They got to
know my dad. They knew he had angry issues. They
knew that he and I could not talk about anything
personal or private. So we were renting this building from

(46:54):
an American church and it was for the US military,
and there was a boy I had a crush on,
and they knew who I had a crush on, and
they also knew that I couldn't tell my mom or
my dad because I get in trouble. So as a kid,
that's the worst thing you can tell your parents, right,
So they even had this leverage on me, so that
way they had something where I couldn't like reach for

(47:17):
help that kind of thing. Now that I look back
at it, of course it's very silly. But when you're
nine and ten years old, Oh my god, how could
I ever tell my parents this type of things the
end of the world. So they got down to my
level and knew the ins and outs of my family dynamic.
They also tested everything in front of my mom, where
they would grope me and lift up my dress and

(47:38):
touch me in front of my mom, and my mom
thought it was the funniest thing. And my mom would
tell me to stop complaining. And I remember, before things
got too far sinister, me telling my mom like, I
don't like it when she does this, can you make
her stop? And my mom would say things like, oh, well,
you know, that's just how she is. That's just how

(48:00):
things are, and you need to stop complaining because that's
how adults behave. And I was like, okay, And so
here I am nine years old thinking that this. I
don't feel good about it, but somehow adults are saying
this is normal, so it must be. And so the
piano lessons that I would have. My mom would often
drop me off at this person's house unattended and be

(48:20):
gone for hours and then come and pick me up.
Or it would be at the church where my mom
would leave me with this person downstairs. Because this was
another thing that I look back and I'm thinking, what
the hell were you thinking? And even my dad too,
I'm like, how did you not think something was weird here?
I never told my dad, so I don't think he knows.

(48:40):
But this person that was our church pianist always requested
lessons to be private.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
And they told my parents too. They're like, I do
my best work when no adults are around because I
can teach them. And so my mom, obviously knowing what
was going on, was like, oh yeah, she's just out
for piano lessons, And so she even bought dual headphones
for me and this person so that way, when they

(49:07):
were in my own home, my mom could close the
door and even if there was silence, it wouldn't sound
like anything weird was going on. Wow.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
Describe the first time it happened with them, like, if
you can, As I said, I've not been abused before,
and the thing is for someone who's only nine years
old to be in a situation where they trust the
person they're with and then that trus goes or you're thinking,
as a nine year old, oh, this is just normal.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah. I mean, I would say the grouping happened before
the more intense stuff happened. I remember I was in
the church kitchen and it was the church piano stand.
My mom in there and she started doing that. As
far as things happening privately in those lessons, this is

(50:01):
where my memory kind of gets much together. I can
tell you exactly what clothes I was wearing. I remember
what the piano looked like. It was a black baby
grand piano, and I just remember that I was playing

(50:22):
something on the piano and they were standing next to me,
and all of a sudden I felt their hand and
it was not over my clothes anymore, and I just
remember freezing because I'd never experienced that before. I didn't

(50:44):
know how to react. I don't know how else to
describe this other it felt like something died inside of me,
I think. I mean, I had seen things happen on
movies before. It was another weird thing with my parents,
as we were allowed to watch very adult rated movies,
but we weren't allowed to go to a movie theater.

(51:05):
Somehow that was the sin. That don't make no sense,
But I remember seeing things like happen that happened to
women in movies, but I was a kid, And then
I felt this person's hand, and then I think, I
just it was almost like I was awake, but I
wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Did you ever try to stop them or say, no,
well you just it's a frozen Yeah, I was just
completely frozen.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
I didn't. I think later on there was a point
where where I kind of knew what was going to happen,
and I remember being upset, but in the first initial stages,
like it was just so sudden, and I didn't know
because like this person had also established trust with me,
yea where I had trusted them enough to tell them

(51:51):
which boy I had a crush on. They acted like
my friend. They bought me toys and candy, things that
like my parents would have never given me. They made
me feel like I was a smart kid. My parents
never told me those things. And so all of a sudden,
when this happened, I felt like I was a bad person,
because how could this person be bad if all they've

(52:15):
ever done is good, and now it must be my
fault because I couldn't even fight back. I just stood there,
and so I was so ashamed. And there was the
strangest experience really.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Was when did it finally stop with them?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
I wish it would have stopped sooner. There was a
point where that person had to start working like a
different shift, and so they were out of my life
for a couple of months, but then they immediately came
back in. So I had a temporary piano teacher on base,
on the military base, but then nine to eleven happened,

(52:54):
and then I wasn't allowed to go on base anymore.
And then the person switched shifts, and so I ended
up taking lessons again with that person.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
And then automatically from that, just what they did to you.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah, yeah, they were like, oh, I guess there was
nothing wrong here. So they were never stopped, they were
never reprimanded or any of that. My mom never did
anything to make it stop or she was encouraging it.
So when they came back in my life, you know,
everything kind of started all over again. And what made

(53:27):
them stop though, was I was a teenager already. I
think I was almost fourteen at this point, but they
got in an argument with my dad, and so this
person was already the church pianist, but they wanted more
senior leadership position. Some people might call it a deacon
of a church. This is like a pastor's assistant type thing,

(53:49):
and so they wanted that, but because they were female,
my dad said no, and so that was his rules
within the church, no female leadership, which I think is BS.
But in this one instance it played in my favor
because they ended up getting in a fight and my
dad kicked them out of the church. So that's what
finally caused them to leave and leave me the hell alone.

(54:14):
But during that time, I even look back now and
I think about all the things that I went through,
including as a child wedding the bed, and this was
something I was so embarrassed about for years. I let
the bed into my teens. But I look back now
and then with the research that I've done and with
other survivors that I've talked to, it's very common for

(54:36):
people who are going through sexual abuse to experience that
even into teens or adulthood. And I had no idea
back then. I just always thought there was something wrong.
With me.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
Yeah, so you said that your dad never knew about that. Yeah,
he never till this day, he never knew, doesn't.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Know as far as I'm aware of. No, my mom
kept a lot of secrets from him.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
And what do you think your dad would have done
if you have found out? Do you think he would
have been abusive to you or your mom? Or would
you have gone to abusive to them? Tann a blonde eye.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
I don't really know, because that's the only kind of
sexual abuse you got. Yes, is that correct?

Speaker 3 (55:14):
There were other things that had happened. Sometimes we'd go
to churches in the States and there would be like
really creepy pastors or other church members. I remember like
being forced to sit in other guy's laps when I
was a kid because it was cute or whatever, and
just feeling very gross and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Well, not to the extent of this Pianoistno, No, not
at all, not even close.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
That's that's what I'm trying to say, Like, that's never happened,
and your dad's never pushed that to happen.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
How would you have tend on your mom?

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Maybe, if I think about it, I do remember actually,
now that you mention it. I have a memory from
when I was really little and I was at the
park with my dad and there was like a sprinkler
slash like water thing and in the summertime, kids would
go out there and we just like play in the
water and whatever. And I remember one time there was

(56:08):
this guy taking photos of the kids, and I remember
my dad saying, hey, we got to go, and I
didn't know why. I was like, I'm having fun playing
And I was very little, I might have been like six,
And if I remember correctly, my parents got in a
fight about it in the car because my dad said
we got to go, and he was like, there was
that creepy guy taking photos of our kids. And so

(56:31):
that was like the only times anything like remotely sexual
happened in front of my dad. So I don't know
if that's how he would have responded or what he
probably would have turned on my mom though, if I
think about it, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
So with all that happening and now that's passed away,
and like she's moved on, what happens with you now?
Like in that household you know you'll come into your teens,
is anything changing the household you'll growing up?

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Now?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Do you want to get out of the household. What's
happening now to you?

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, so there was always something in my head that
said that I wanted to leave, But my passports were
always in my parents safe by their bed. My mom
still has my birth certificate. She never let me have it,
so I always knew that I had those legal documents,
but they were out of reach for me. I wasn't
taught how to use a phone or how to use

(57:26):
public transportations. I didn't know how to leave. I didn't
have an ID because I didn't go to a school,
so I had nothing on my person that could prove
who I was. So I did think about running away
and leaving quite often. That was a fantasy of mine.
But I also thought about my brother, after seeing the
abuse that he had gone through and knowing that it

(57:47):
would be ten times worse if I ran away, their
anger would be taken out on him.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Asked to run away. You both couldn't do it together.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
We never talked about it. Yeah, I think we talked
about when we grow up and we don't have to
deal with this anymore. But I don't think we ever
talked about running away. I wish we would have.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
Did you ever think, even going into your teens and
late teens, did you ever think this was going to end?

Speaker 3 (58:13):
So my sister went to the same super strict religious
college that I went to, but I remember her coming back,
so I think I was fifteen. I had a whole
plan to end my life, and I remember telling myself,
I'm going to wait till I see her because I
just want to see her one more time. And she

(58:34):
came back and she was so happy, and even though
looking back like I would never want to go back
to this establishment ever, but she would talk about friends,
and she would talk about the conversation she'd have with
her friends or people she could even laugh with, whereas
I would get in trouble for laughing too much or

(58:54):
not smiling it for whatever stupid reason. And there wasn't
physical abuse there. To me, that sounded like heaven, a
place where someone wouldn't get physically abused, allowed to speak
to other people, allowed to make friends. And so after
seeing that, it kind of gave me a little hope
because I knew that that was the place that I
would be allowed to go to. So I think that's

(59:18):
what I held on to from the time I was
about fifteen, thinking that, well, if this is the worst
my life is ever going to get, then I can
survive a couple more years and get through now. Granted,
I had moments where I had tried to end my
life or ended up in situations where I was self harming.

(59:41):
But I think there was some glimmer of hope in
the back of my head when I saw that.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
How did you get over the mental stress and everything?
From me? How'd you cope with that?

Speaker 3 (59:50):
After theirle I just remember crying a lot at night.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Well, you over, You've been stronger now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
I think it's an immunity, an immunity for it. You know,
obviously what happened back then is still just as bad
now as it was then. But I think there's a
part of me that realizes that I'm free. You know,
some days I live in Vegas right now, but some
days I'll be driving down the road and literally it's
just like an epiphany, just this wave of gratitude that

(01:00:23):
hits me, and I'll look around and I feel like
I'm in a dream. I am driving my own car,
Like I can go to a friend's house whenever I want,
I can speak to whomever I want, I can be
at any place at any time, and no one is
here to stop me. Sometimes I have to remind myself
because I get stuck like. This is something that's been

(01:00:46):
challenging for me as an adult, is sometimes leaving my home. Yeah,
because sometimes when I'm in that very negative headspace, that trauma,
there's a part of me that's like, oh, like, I
don't know if I could do this. But then when
I stop and think about it, I realize that I
have so much freedom that I never had before, and

(01:01:07):
so I don't know if what happened back then is
less painful. I think I just found so much more
happiness now. But I also use self harm back then
to cope, and so anorexia was one of those things
that I used. And people end up with eating disorders
for various reasons. A lot of research has shown that

(01:01:29):
sexual abuse is common with those who experienced that poor
self image, obviously, which I had my whole life. But
I think for me, it was just this and it's
just going to sound insane, but this constant feeling of
playing with life and death was so invigorating. I couldn't
control anything else in my life, couldn't control when I

(01:01:52):
left the house, even as a teenager. I couldn't control
my education. I couldn't control what times of day I
could even, you know, go to the bathroom, or I
might get in trouble for making too much noise going
downstairs to use the restroom or getting water or whatever.
But what I could control is food restriction to the
point where I had this down to a science that

(01:02:15):
I knew how many calories. This is gonna sound insane,
but how many calories and how many movements I would
need to take in one day to make myself blackout.
And I lived for that, And so it's a very
strange feeling. And for anyone who survived this intense anorexia,

(01:02:35):
you know that addictive feeling of adrenaline. It's almost like
being like, I've never experienced with this before, but I
guess comparatively would be like being shot up with narcan.
You're passed out, you're gone, and all of a sudden
you're back to life and you feel just powerful. And
that got addicting. And I did that for from the

(01:02:59):
time I was about sixteen until probably like my first
year year and a half into college. So that was
my vice. It was, it was self harm and play
with life. And death.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Wow, yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
But you think it's helped too that you haven't seen
your parents for a while, so it's kind of ye,
it blanks it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Out, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
It takes away the negativity and that bad energy as
a wife from not seeing them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
So I think so. And you know, like everybody's got
their own way of coping, but for me, I think
it's been the best thing for my mental health, honestly,
because I can't even imagine. I remember even when I
did have a relationship with them as an adult, where
I would accomplish things or you know, I would I
would do things I'm proud of and they'd be proud
of me for two seconds, and then it was, oh,

(01:03:45):
but you could do better, you know. Or if I
messed up with something, or maybe they didn't think something
went a certain way, it was like, well you could
have done this. There was always something that was never enough.
And now that I think about it, you know, I'm
not where I want to be in life. I hope
I never feel like I arrived. I hope I'm always
growing all ways learning. But I think about it now,

(01:04:07):
I don't even think I would have that drive within
me if I had someone constantly tearing me down and
making me feel like I was insignificant. To answer your question, yeah, do.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
You think, now that you've gone through everything that just
say turn back the time a little bit. You know
your parents aren't that old as they are now. But
if they could you you reckon. You could stand up
to them now if they try to abuse you, being
the woman that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
You are now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
If I was to go back, I think I would
see this in two different ways. If I was as
old as I am and confident as I am right
now in that little girl's shoes, I think I would
simply walk away. I think I would know what to do.
I would know how to use a phone, And that
was a recurring nightmare that I used to have where

(01:04:55):
I wasn't able to use a phone, or I'd be
trapped in my house and I couldn't call someone. But
knowing what I know now, I would know how to leave.
I know how to buy a plane ticket, how to
get out of there. Now. If I was my adult
self now and I saw what was happening to my
younger self, there might be a chainsaw in an accent rold.

(01:05:17):
I say, I promise I'm not crazy for a little bit,
but I would protect that little girl at all costs.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
I think from what you've told me about your parents,
they controlled you to make you fear you couldn't be
without them. Oh yeah, and that's why every time you
wanted to escape or or thought about escaping, you knew,
you know, it's the right thing to do. Yeah, but
half of you saying it's not. Maybe they are right.
I do need them, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
So that's why. And now now you're a stronger person,
you could stand up to them.

Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
Now, hell yeah, absolutely before we go, describe you in
one word or two words to me now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Oh dear, I would say empathetic and unhinged just a little.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
But now I appreciate you coming on. I've enjoyed this
so much. It's been you know. I'm glad now you're
a stronger person and I wish you all the best
in the future.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Thank you so much. I've really appreciated this interview. It's
been great.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Thank you.