October 5, 2024 • 22 mins
Unlock the full potential of your industrial operations with private 4G and 5G networks. Join us as we sit down with Ian Ross, the head of Private Cylinder Networks for Australia and New Zealand at Ericsson, to explore how these advanced networks can seamlessly integrate into your infrastructure. Discover the remarkable efficiency gains and cost savings that automated warehouses and ports are already experiencing, and learn about the critical role stable connectivity plays in enhancing safety and productivity in emergency services and other critical operations.
Are you ready to lead the charge in sustainability through technology? Ian enlightens us on the transformative power of private cellular networks in electrified, digitized, and automated mining operations. We delve into the importance of data in driving sustainability initiatives and how innovations like micro-sleep technology are significantly reducing energy consumption. Ian also shares invaluable leadership insights, emphasizing the need for an open mindset, the courage to experiment, and the acceptance of failure as part of the innovation process.
Get inspired by the groundbreaking work of Ericsson's 35,000-strong engineering R&D workforce. Hear about their close collaboration with customers to turn needs into cutting-edge technical capabilities, particularly in AI and 5G. Ian shares his personal experiences and the excitement of solving business challenges with technology. We discuss the importance of building a trusted partner ecosystem and understanding industry trends to create real value for end users. Lastly, we explore the monumental impact of 5G on enterprises, from augmented reality in construction to AI-driven automation in agriculture, illustrating how unlimited connectivity is driving unprecedented operational agility and efficiency.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael van Rooyen (00:00):
Today I'm sharing part two of my interview
with Ian Ross, the head ofPrivate Cylinder Networks for
Australia and New Zealand atEricsson.
If you missed part one, Isuggest having a listen to that
first.
Ian Ross (00:12):
Private 4G, private 5G .
It's not the solution, but it'sthe foundation.
It's the enabler for thetechnologies, for the systems,
for the sensors that provide thesolution.
Michael van Rooyen (00:25):
And if I think about without doing too
much deep dive, and you'vecovered it realistically, if I
think about how it integratesinto a customer's network, so
you're really just providing theaccess network, bringing those
streams in, bringing it to AI nodoubt, because that's fueling a
lot of video vision all that itjust really integrates into the
customer's network, right.
So you've got the securewireless network that you're
building from a private lt pointof view and then it really just
(00:45):
for people on on who, listening, are technical, it's just
really then joining the rest ofthe network downstream.
Ian Ross (00:49):
So there's an ip connectivity at some point and
it just becomes an extension butthe the power of the technology
is, it's the control over theusers and the applications, and
this is where it really excels.
In a cellular world, you canidentify a user or an
application flow and you cantreat it with a different level
of quality of service.
And, unlike Wi-Fi where it'sreally just serving access on a
(01:13):
random basis, in the cellularworld everything is scheduled,
so the network is smart enoughto know who's got what data, how
important that data is, whatpolicy has been to assign to it
in terms of packet loss andlatency, and then network
resources are assigned to makesure those policies can be met.
And the really powerful thingand this is the God complex of
mobile networks if the policycan't be met, it's got inbuilt
(01:34):
ruthless preemption, so thenetwork will actually remove
applications and users of alower priority to make way for
higher priority users.
So you can start to see now whyindustry is looking at this.
You imagine the scenario of a400-ton haul truck driving with
a full load at 60 kilometres anhour.
You want that truck to beconnected, correct, correct All
the time, and the network cangive that ability to do it Right
(01:56):
right.
Michael van Rooyen (01:57):
So I think about critical operations, even
I just think about emergencyservices, fire.
That's very interesting.
Ian Ross (02:09):
So user application, the quality of service, is a
whole different level.
It is Guarantee is a verydangerous word, but it's
probably one of the mostpowerful wireless technologies
we've got in terms of movingclose to that idea of
guaranteeing a networkexperience.
And it just doesn't need to beautomation.
Imagine the warehouse with thescanners.
I mentioned before the issue ofconsistency of connectivity.
So in that sort of environmentit now actually allows us to
realise these mixed operationspaces where you have workers
(02:30):
working in the same environmentas machines of different levels
of automation and control, butin a safe manner.
You can have, in a warehouseenvironment, agvs moving pallets
around and stacking At the sametime.
You've got drones flying up anddown doing real-time stock
taking At the same time.
You've still got the regularemployee there with their
scanner, but everything'sremaining connected and insured.
(02:52):
So the AGV is getting itslow-latency connections, the
drone's got its safetymanagement systems and its
automation stop if there's anissue, but that scanner is
staying connected to SAP and notdropping off the network.
That's cool, right?
So this is the power of thetechnology here.
I get excited by it.
I love it.
Michael van Rooyen (03:09):
Look, and I do as well.
The more we talk about it, themore fascinated I get.
I'm with you.
You get to luckily, play withit every day.
I just get to talk about it andlook at the customer.
Right is the main thing.
Ian Ross (03:25):
There is an economic element to this.
So ports in Italy that haverolled this technology out,
they've been able to improvetheir container movement
efficiency something like 10%,just by having better paths
through the port to move thecontainers.
Michael van Rooyen (03:37):
Now, that doesn't sound like much, but
when you think about the numberof containers, well, that's
right, correct right Vesselberthing is a big thing.
Ian Ross (03:43):
So again, one of these other ports we've been dealing
with.
They've been able to eliminate$100,000 US downtime every
fortnight.
Michael van Rooyen (03:51):
What.
Ian Ross (03:52):
Just to sell their technology because of the
stability of connection.
So you're not dealing with oh,the network's down so I can't
berth the vessel.
The network's always up andrunning.
We use the technology asEricsson.
We're a manufacturer.
We have 5G and radio assemblylines.
This is our business.
We manufacture equipment fornetworks and we use this in our
Estonia factory for faultdetection.
So we have technicians usingAR-assisted 4G, 5g connected
(04:16):
devices and we're able to reducefault time detection by 15%.
But when it comes time toresearch an issue, the AR tools
that we're using, connected viaa private network, eliminate
research time by 50%.
So these are solid bottom linesavings.
And then when you start lookingat the focus on sustainability
and decarbonisation not as muchhere, I'd say in Melbourne today
(04:36):
, heating is a very importantthing, but just by better
environmental control on theselarger facilities we're seeing
some customers report a 10% to20% reduction in their CO2
footprint from heating andcooling.
Now we have this ability thatprivate 4G, private 5G.
It's not the solution, but it'sthe foundation.
It's the enabler for thetechnologies, for the systems,
(04:59):
for the sensors that provide thesolution.
Those solutions can benefitsafety, as I said, productivity,
efficiency, sustainability,very very cool, very, very cool.
Michael van Rooyen (05:08):
And if I think about then, you've given
so many examples sensor data,massive amount of consumption,
we know, and everyone's talkingabout AI.
So let's get it out of the way.
Obviously, the futurist AmyWebb was talking a lot about
we'll uncover over the internet.
We're ingesting all these largelanguage models and now really
IoT sensor data is really whatthey're thinking is going to
continue to fuel the AI engine.
(05:29):
I'm assuming you guys arethinking the same.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ian Ross (05:32):
But for me it's around unstructured data.
So the consumer market hasreally latched on to chat, gbt
and generative AI and largelanguage models, but I think
with an industrial lens.
For me it's around computervision.
So much of the data enterprisesindustry deals with is
unstructured and there justsimply aren't sensors available
for a lot of things.
There's a manufacturingcustomer that we work with in
(05:53):
the US that saw that a singlecamera could replace 120 sensors
and then capture many moreaspects that they could train
the computer vision AI engineand the machine learning to
interpret.
But you could never buy asensor, for the power we see
here is these networks providethe ability to put more vision
sources out in the operatingarea, more streams coming back.
(06:16):
They can provide moreintelligence.
Important to note here we'renot seeing computer vision AI is
going to take away jobs, but Ithink what we're seeing is it's
augmenting people to make staffhigher, skilled and more
effective, but it's also takingon tasks that are too mundane
for a worker to do.
There's a great conversation inthe mining process when you're
extracting copper.
(06:36):
You basically grind it up, youput it into a chemical soup, the
copper floats to the surface inbubbles and you scrape it off,
and that's part of theextraction process.
The entire efficiency of thatprocess is measured by the size
of the bubbles, the frequencybubbles and the colour of the
bubbles Really Right.
So the way they do it issomeone who's highly experienced
(06:59):
checks in occasionally andlooks at the settling vat and
the settling tank and says Ithink the bubbles are okay.
Well, I don't know about you,but watching bubbles in the bath
isn't really an excitingpastime.
But this is a great target forAI.
Yes, you put multiple cameras,different angles, in a
production environment.
You don't want to run cables tothem, so you power them up from
(07:19):
a power source, come back viaprivate cellular, but now what
you've got is a 24 by 7 bubblemonitoring capability.
But your experts train, yes,and they optimize and they, they
continue, but 24 by 7.
That process, the crushercircuits are being optimized
continually and the ai doesn'tget tired.
That's very cool.
Michael van Rooyen (07:37):
that is very cool.
More precise and you can alsoactually that unstructured data,
being able to look at thosebubbles and also what's changed
in the environment slighttemperature change or
environmental change Absolutelyfascinating Talking about that.
If I think about mining, it's abusiness that consumes a lot of
power and our industry alonedata centers, building networks
and running IT is obviously oneof the highest consumers of
(07:59):
power holistically.
So let's just talk aboutsustainability.
That's another topic everyone'stalking about.
I know that I spoke to one ofyour counterparts recently in
Ericsson as well and talkingabout even things like eSIMs how
that's going to really help.
Just waste it sounds small forpeople who think of a normal SIM
, but still a plastic and allthat.
Can you just touch on a bitmore around that private LTE 5G
and how these things arecontributing towards sustainable
(08:20):
business practices?
Ian Ross (08:22):
Yeah.
So I think it comes back towhat I was saying before.
It's a foundation.
I've done a lot of work in themining sector.
You look at the shift towardsthe electrified, digitized,
automated mine.
That's a key sustainabilityobjective Electrification
running out, diesel, dieselfumes so the ability to drive
those technologies out there iskey.
And I think, to take a step back, when you look at
(08:44):
sustainability initiatives,whether it's clean technology
adoption, whether it's resourceand biodiversity monitoring,
whether it's digitalisation orelectrification, everything
involves data.
Right, there's no point drivinga sustainability initiative if
you can't measure it and reporton it.
In fact, when you look at ESG,that's the biggest criticism of
many ESG initiatives Great inprinciple, but are you
(09:05):
monitoring, are you reporting itand are you actually evaluating
your success?
So, with everything beingdata-driven, I think the impact
these private selling networksare having on sustainability is
the ability to capture that data, to monitor the performance, to
introduce the new tools thatdrive that sustainability
benefit, whether it's a sensoror control system that can
monitor level activity and turnlights or heating off, whether
(09:27):
it's more refined just-in-timecontrol of the system, whether
it's the ability to pulltelemetry from a truck or a
vehicle and realise that theoptimal speed and optimal angle
to go up a ramp.
That's the power of privateselling.
It's the connectivity of thedata that can be analysed to
unlock the knowledge of thebusiness to drive those
sustainability outcomes.
(09:48):
But we do our own bit.
If you move away from privateselling and you think of
large-scale mobile networks, Ithink Australia you can cover
Australia with 10,000 celltowers.
Right In New Zealand it's 2,500cell towers to cover the
population Within those markets.
That's a huge amount oftechnology running 24 by 7
consuming power.
What we have done as amanufacturer, designer of
(10:10):
equipment in this space is we'veworked to break the energy
curve.
So I think we are now lookingat a 30 to 60% reduction in
power consumption for thesenetworks.
So, yes, we're the enablingelement for other technologies,
but we do our bit as well interms of sustainability.
Michael van Rooyen (10:28):
Sure, that's significant.
I mean, that's a lot of change.
Yeah, to give you an idea ofwhere it's come.
Ian Ross (10:33):
we put our radios to sleep in those little fractions
of a millisecond when they'renot sending data.
We call it micro-sleep,transmit Right.
So when the radio is nottransmitting, so it's pausing
for like 20 milliseconds, itwill take a nap and then wake up
again.
So that provides these powerbenefits.
So it's insane what theengineers can do Unbelievable
Without affecting quality,without affecting services.
Michael van Rooyen (10:55):
I mean it's minor, but it reminds me very
much of when they rolled out thestop starting cars right the.
It reminds me very much of whenthey rolled out the stop
starting cars right, the trafficjams right.
Ian Ross (11:01):
It is, it's almost the same.
It's just at the lights for acouple of minutes.
We're now looking atmilliseconds.
Yeah, of course.
And it all adds up over timeno-transcript to turn off some
(11:32):
of the capacity in the network.
That's amazing.
Now we don't see that as muchin enterprise, because the
networks aren't that large.
But the same principles flowthrough to what we're doing and
I think in 2010, our radios, asa data point, might've consumed
100 watts of power per transmitbranch.
That same sort of radiotechnology, with evolution, is
(11:52):
now down to, I think, six wattsper transmit branch.
Michael van Rooyen (11:54):
Wow, that's massive.
Ian Ross (11:54):
Yeah, that's crazy.
So lots of little thingshappening all over the place.
Michael van Rooyen (11:58):
Wow, that's fantastic.
Are you trying to helpcustomers with their journey to
sustainability, using thetechnology to deliver their
sustainable outcomes, but alsowhat you guys are doing to
support that?
I want to pivot a little bitnow from a lot of technology,
and I could talk about this forthe rest of the day.
Ian Ross (12:12):
all the technology.
Stop me, no, no.
Michael van Rooyen (12:15):
And I absolutely love it.
I also wanted to probably justtouch on a few technology
leadership type questions foryou, because obviously you've
been in many, many businessesand run teams et cetera with
teams.
I guess what I'm keen tounderstand from your point of
view as a leader in the space,what are kind of the leadership
principles you believe areessential for driving innovation
and achieving strategic goalswith customers, internally et
cetera?
Ian Ross (12:34):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I'd start with an open mindset.
This industry we're in whetherit's technology, whether it's
using technology changes so fast.
As I said, there's no rightanswers.
We don't even know sometimesthe problems we're trying to
solve.
So I think the fundamental tome is it's an open mindset.
There's also recognition.
There's no right answer,there's no fixed answers.
(12:55):
There's no silver bullets.
You have to be prepared toinnovate.
You have to and I think I'veprobably got the Ericsson
brainwashing here but you haveto imagine possible, which is
what we have as an ethos in ourcompany.
And I think the other thinghere is it's okay to fail.
I was at a customer conferencethe other week and they
(13:15):
mentioned a company's introduceda chief of failure.
Michael van Rooyen (13:19):
Now, I think , that's pretty radical.
Ian Ross (13:20):
I don't think you want to say when I want to grow up,
I want to introduced a chief offailure Now.
I think that's pretty radical.
I don't think you want to sitthere and say when I want to
grow up I want to be a chief offailure, but I think the essence
of what they're getting at isthat innovation.
You've got to experiment,you've got to try new things,
and I think that's my keythought in this space Push the
boundaries, explore new ways ofdoing things, particularly when
we look at what you can do withtechnologies like private
cellular.
(13:40):
It gives you the ability totake on new challenges.
Don't be afraid to try them.
Yes, right, obviously, do it ina very safe way that doesn't
impact production, of course,but that's my view.
Yeah great.
Michael van Rooyen (13:51):
And then if I think of the role you run for
Australia and New Zealand andagain working with your
counterparts globally, the techindustry is very fast-paced,
right and always changing, andthat's one thing I think you
touched on at the beginning ofour conversation.
One thing I enjoy and I'vealways enjoyed about industry
I've worked in no other industryis tech, and it changes all the
time and I love it because itnever gets boring.
There's always a challenge,there's always ways to do things
and there's always fascinatingoutcomes.
(14:13):
But for you, and particularlyin Ericsson, how do you guys
remain agile and responsive tomarket changes and customer
needs?
Ian Ross (14:19):
Yeah, I think there's a great example here.
We have something like a 35,000strong engineering R&D
workforce 35% of the company isan R&D function and we don't
lose sight of the fact that whatwe need to do is to drive the
innovation.
So we use that capability towork very closely with our
customers to understand whatthey're doing, what they want to
(14:40):
do, and then we translate thatinto a technical capability.
And the same thing inenterprise.
We look at what's the ambition,what's the business direction,
and that boils down to how cantechnology, as we have it today
or as we think we're evolving it, be used?
And a great example is AI.
We spoke about this before.
Right, all of our engineers areAI trained 35,000 of them.
(15:01):
We've all gone throughbasically the equivalent of the
Masters of AI type ofarrangement Not university
masters, but the boot camp typeof AI education and they've been
trained to know what AI is andhow to use it.
And they're encouraged toidentify where the technology
can be used to streamline whatthey do, how we operate our
(15:21):
technology or simply add newcapabilities to our products.
That's very cool, right?
They're encouraged to push theboundaries and bring ideas and
drive the evolution.
Yes, and I think that's reallyhow we stay ahead.
It's like we look at technology, we invest in it, we explore it
, we embrace it.
We're not afraid to try it.
There will be some failures onthe way, of course, but, again,
you don't learn without failures.
(15:42):
The key point is to recognizewhy it went wrong and then to go
back and learn from thatexperience.
So that's how we do it.
That literacy, that capability,that digital comprehension is a
core competency of anyorganization that wants to see
in this tech world.
Michael van Rooyen (15:59):
And knowing that your life is really
connectivity and you've comefrom many flavors of the space,
if you think about the growthtrajectory, and we'll continue
to see this connectivity grow,which means it's going to be a
whole emerging tech field,although Eric's been doing it
for a long time and it's beenaround a while, but I can
definitely see, as we open, moreopportunities to build these
sorts of networks and helpenterprises, et cetera.
There'll be new leaders.
(16:19):
What sort of advice would yougive them to become leaders in
the space or get involved in theconnectivity space?
Ian Ross (16:25):
My advice would stay across the industry trends, just
not those in ICT, but also theend users, the people who are
driving the adoption oftechnology.
If you understand their trendsthen you'd be more valuable to
them.
So just not the technologytrends, the business trends, the
overarching macro issues thatthey're trying to work through.
Ultimately, I think the biggestgap we have as an industry and
this is just not the ICTindustry but industries in
(16:47):
general is building the linkagebetween operational challenges
of business and that digitalcomprehension, getting across
those operational challenges andknowledge of the technology.
I think it is a sweet spot.
It's that white space that weneed more people doing that.
Always keep the user and theoutcome in mind.
And Blank sheet of paper is allpowerful, so don't get caught
(17:07):
up in trying to be defined bythings.
But I think the other elementhere is partnering.
We're in a collaborative world.
We have technologies that helpus collaborate.
Not one person can doeverything, so the role of those
trusted value partners up anddown the supply chain are
absolutely critical.
So if you're moving in thisconnectivity space, you want to
be a leader in this space.
It's build that ecosystem ofpartners with the technology,
(17:27):
the capability, the services tomake the projects a success.
Michael van Rooyen (17:30):
Yeah, that's great advice, right?
I think we as technologists getto consume the technology.
We love the technology andwe're all in for it.
But the ability to talk aboutthe business outcome and I
really like your point on itwhat problem you're trying to
solve for the end user is reallythe key.
And look, as we come to the endof this, just a couple more
questions for you, reflecting onyour career what have been some
of the most rewardingexperiences that you've seen and
(17:52):
what continues to motivate you?
I mean, I can just hear yourvoice there the use cases.
Ian Ross (17:57):
But outside of that, I'm the classic problem solver
at heart Engineer by training,engineer by hobby, engineer by
passion.
I just love seeing the problemsand solving them, and I enjoy
nothing more than identifying abusiness challenge, finding an
operational obstacle, ideatinghow technology can solve that,
(18:17):
how can we do somethingdifferent or something better,
and then seeing it through toexecution.
This is my motivation.
Every day brings a newchallenge and I think what we
see here is the potential,mobility, the potential of 5G,
what it can do in helpingachieve these digital
transformational changes.
It's exciting.
Michael van Rooyen (18:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I don't see myself doinganything for a long while,
that's different than this andit's digital plumbing on a whole
different level.
Right, it is.
Yes, as I say, I envy youbecause it's an exciting space
to be in and we're only again atthe tipping point.
Yes, it's been around for awhile for consumerization, but I
(18:54):
just think what's coming isvery interesting.
As we wrap up here, any lastmessages you want to leave for
for listeners.
If there's any other keymessage you want to, leave.
Ian Ross (18:58):
I think it just comes back to look.
5g is a technology that we, asconsumers we we are using more
and more.
But don't think of it just as aconsumer technology.
It's an enterprise.
It can be used to do more withWiles than we ever dreamed was
possible.
When you take that 5Gcapability and you combine it
with these dedicated,site-specific private networks
that give you control over thesecurity, the access, the
(19:20):
performance, that deterministicbehavior, you start to open up a
whole new world of use casesthat we haven't even scratched
the surface on.
I agree, right, and we talkabout augmented workers with VR
and AR, and it might sound alittle bit science fiction-y,
but we're already seeing thepower of AR in construction and
shipbuilding in the US.
Yes, right, so it's a massivegame changer for on-the-job
(19:43):
training and accessinginformation.
Computer vision, ai it doesn'tsound as sexy as large language
models and generative ai, butwhat you can do with
unstructured data and theimportance of business on this
is massive absolutely.
Michael van Rooyen (19:54):
And look, last question which I I always
ask guests of the show andyou've had a very, very
intriguing list already.
But tell me about the mostsignificant technology change or
shift you've been involved withduring your career.
So that's anything.
The whole time you've beendoing it.
What is it like?
Kind of number one or two thatstands?
That's really shifted.
Ian Ross (20:12):
Look, I've been in this game for over 25 years.
I started off, you know,looking at cable telephony, then
got involved digital power linetechnology, which is really
crazy stuff.
That is crazy stuff high speedoptical and microwave.
Converged data networks youknow, wirelessline convergence
been a lot in virtualization.
They've all been exciting, butthey've all been in the same
(20:33):
space of it's just moving dataaround.
I think where we're at now forme is the most significant
change, particularly becauseit's enterprise focused and it's
not enterprise branch officeconnectivity and IT, and here's
email, here's a webpage, here'san internet source.
This is changing processes.
It's taking a harvesting systemand putting AI on it and
(20:56):
connecting that harvest to beautomated and then detecting
what type of weed and puttingthe right chemical on the weed.
You haven't really lived untilyou've been on a haul road with
a 400 ton haul truck drivingitself.
Right, I bet you haven't.
That'd be weird to see.
Well, that's right.
So that's why I think that'sprobably the the most
significant thing we've seenhere.
You've now got the capabilityto connect anything anywhere
(21:17):
with virtually dare I say no,not unlimited bandwidth, but
huge amounts of bandwidth anddata.
What can you do with that?
We're now operating an areawhere we're not constrained by
connectivity.
We have a thirst for data.
We can do a lot more with thedata.
We can connect it anywhere,everywhere, anytime and really
without constraint.
Yes, and to me that's theexciting bit.
Michael van Rooyen (21:36):
That is exciting.
That is exciting and I thinkyou've absolutely nailed it.
I think it's the bottom of thebell curve and I think, with the
constraint of connectivityremoved, I'm a big digital
plumber myself and, of course,network and security security.
But specifically, if I thinkabout the things we've talked
about today, I think that isdefinitely one that is
outstanding.
Ian Ross (21:59):
Well, I think, as enterprises, the first time in
enterprise where we truly havethe ability to set a vision and
to execute a plan for how we'regoing to create agility, how
we're going to advanceoperations with automation, but
how we're going to unlock theintelligence in the business.
We didn't know that sat there.
That's true, and I think that'swhat makes this so dramatic.
So much to be uncovered.
Michael van Rooyen (22:14):
Yeah, we've never been here before.
That's right, Ian.
Look absolutely fascinatingconversation.
I really appreciate the time.
As I said, we could keeptalking for hours, but I
appreciate your time today.
No, thank you very much.
Thanks for having me, All right.
Today I'm sharing part two of my interview
with Ian Ross, the head ofPrivate Cylinder Networks for
Australia and New Zealand atEricsson.
If you missed part one, Isuggest having a listen to that
first.
Ian Ross (00:12):
Private 4G, private 5G .
It's not the solution, but it'sthe foundation.
It's the enabler for thetechnologies, for the systems,
for the sensors that provide thesolution.
Michael van Rooyen (00:25):
And if I think about without doing too
much deep dive, and you'vecovered it realistically, if I
think about how it integratesinto a customer's network, so
you're really just providing theaccess network, bringing those
streams in, bringing it to AI nodoubt, because that's fueling a
lot of video vision all that itjust really integrates into the
customer's network, right.
So you've got the securewireless network that you're
building from a private lt pointof view and then it really just
(00:45):
for people on on who, listening, are technical, it's just
really then joining the rest ofthe network downstream.
Ian Ross (00:49):
So there's an ip connectivity at some point and
it just becomes an extension butthe the power of the technology
is, it's the control over theusers and the applications, and
this is where it really excels.
In a cellular world, you canidentify a user or an
application flow and you cantreat it with a different level
of quality of service.
And, unlike Wi-Fi where it'sreally just serving access on a
(01:13):
random basis, in the cellularworld everything is scheduled,
so the network is smart enoughto know who's got what data, how
important that data is, whatpolicy has been to assign to it
in terms of packet loss andlatency, and then network
resources are assigned to makesure those policies can be met.
And the really powerful thingand this is the God complex of
mobile networks if the policycan't be met, it's got inbuilt
(01:34):
ruthless preemption, so thenetwork will actually remove
applications and users of alower priority to make way for
higher priority users.
So you can start to see now whyindustry is looking at this.
You imagine the scenario of a400-ton haul truck driving with
a full load at 60 kilometres anhour.
You want that truck to beconnected, correct, correct All
the time, and the network cangive that ability to do it Right
(01:56):
right.
Michael van Rooyen (01:57):
So I think about critical operations, even
I just think about emergencyservices, fire.
That's very interesting.
Ian Ross (02:09):
So user application, the quality of service, is a
whole different level.
It is Guarantee is a verydangerous word, but it's
probably one of the mostpowerful wireless technologies
we've got in terms of movingclose to that idea of
guaranteeing a networkexperience.
And it just doesn't need to beautomation.
Imagine the warehouse with thescanners.
I mentioned before the issue ofconsistency of connectivity.
So in that sort of environmentit now actually allows us to
realise these mixed operationspaces where you have workers
(02:30):
working in the same environmentas machines of different levels
of automation and control, butin a safe manner.
You can have, in a warehouseenvironment, agvs moving pallets
around and stacking At the sametime.
You've got drones flying up anddown doing real-time stock
taking At the same time.
You've still got the regularemployee there with their
scanner, but everything'sremaining connected and insured.
(02:52):
So the AGV is getting itslow-latency connections, the
drone's got its safetymanagement systems and its
automation stop if there's anissue, but that scanner is
staying connected to SAP and notdropping off the network.
That's cool, right?
So this is the power of thetechnology here.
I get excited by it.
I love it.
Michael van Rooyen (03:09):
Look, and I do as well.
The more we talk about it, themore fascinated I get.
I'm with you.
You get to luckily, play withit every day.
I just get to talk about it andlook at the customer.
Right is the main thing.
Ian Ross (03:25):
There is an economic element to this.
So ports in Italy that haverolled this technology out,
they've been able to improvetheir container movement
efficiency something like 10%,just by having better paths
through the port to move thecontainers.
Michael van Rooyen (03:37):
Now, that doesn't sound like much, but
when you think about the numberof containers, well, that's
right, correct right Vesselberthing is a big thing.
Ian Ross (03:43):
So again, one of these other ports we've been dealing
with.
They've been able to eliminate$100,000 US downtime every
fortnight.
Michael van Rooyen (03:51):
What.
Ian Ross (03:52):
Just to sell their technology because of the
stability of connection.
So you're not dealing with oh,the network's down so I can't
berth the vessel.
The network's always up andrunning.
We use the technology asEricsson.
We're a manufacturer.
We have 5G and radio assemblylines.
This is our business.
We manufacture equipment fornetworks and we use this in our
Estonia factory for faultdetection.
So we have technicians usingAR-assisted 4G, 5g connected
(04:16):
devices and we're able to reducefault time detection by 15%.
But when it comes time toresearch an issue, the AR tools
that we're using, connected viaa private network, eliminate
research time by 50%.
So these are solid bottom linesavings.
And then when you start lookingat the focus on sustainability
and decarbonisation not as muchhere, I'd say in Melbourne today
(04:36):
, heating is a very importantthing, but just by better
environmental control on theselarger facilities we're seeing
some customers report a 10% to20% reduction in their CO2
footprint from heating andcooling.
Now we have this ability thatprivate 4G, private 5G.
It's not the solution, but it'sthe foundation.
It's the enabler for thetechnologies, for the systems,
(04:59):
for the sensors that provide thesolution.
Those solutions can benefitsafety, as I said, productivity,
efficiency, sustainability,very very cool, very, very cool.
Michael van Rooyen (05:08):
And if I think about then, you've given
so many examples sensor data,massive amount of consumption,
we know, and everyone's talkingabout AI.
So let's get it out of the way.
Obviously, the futurist AmyWebb was talking a lot about
we'll uncover over the internet.
We're ingesting all these largelanguage models and now really
IoT sensor data is really whatthey're thinking is going to
continue to fuel the AI engine.
(05:29):
I'm assuming you guys arethinking the same.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ian Ross (05:32):
But for me it's around unstructured data.
So the consumer market hasreally latched on to chat, gbt
and generative AI and largelanguage models, but I think
with an industrial lens.
For me it's around computervision.
So much of the data enterprisesindustry deals with is
unstructured and there justsimply aren't sensors available
for a lot of things.
There's a manufacturingcustomer that we work with in
(05:53):
the US that saw that a singlecamera could replace 120 sensors
and then capture many moreaspects that they could train
the computer vision AI engineand the machine learning to
interpret.
But you could never buy asensor, for the power we see
here is these networks providethe ability to put more vision
sources out in the operatingarea, more streams coming back.
(06:16):
They can provide moreintelligence.
Important to note here we'renot seeing computer vision AI is
going to take away jobs, but Ithink what we're seeing is it's
augmenting people to make staffhigher, skilled and more
effective, but it's also takingon tasks that are too mundane
for a worker to do.
There's a great conversation inthe mining process when you're
extracting copper.
(06:36):
You basically grind it up, youput it into a chemical soup, the
copper floats to the surface inbubbles and you scrape it off,
and that's part of theextraction process.
The entire efficiency of thatprocess is measured by the size
of the bubbles, the frequencybubbles and the colour of the
bubbles Really Right.
So the way they do it issomeone who's highly experienced
(06:59):
checks in occasionally andlooks at the settling vat and
the settling tank and says Ithink the bubbles are okay.
Well, I don't know about you,but watching bubbles in the bath
isn't really an excitingpastime.
But this is a great target forAI.
Yes, you put multiple cameras,different angles, in a
production environment.
You don't want to run cables tothem, so you power them up from
(07:19):
a power source, come back viaprivate cellular, but now what
you've got is a 24 by 7 bubblemonitoring capability.
But your experts train, yes,and they optimize and they, they
continue, but 24 by 7.
That process, the crushercircuits are being optimized
continually and the ai doesn'tget tired.
That's very cool.
Michael van Rooyen (07:37):
that is very cool.
More precise and you can alsoactually that unstructured data,
being able to look at thosebubbles and also what's changed
in the environment slighttemperature change or
environmental change Absolutelyfascinating Talking about that.
If I think about mining, it's abusiness that consumes a lot of
power and our industry alonedata centers, building networks
and running IT is obviously oneof the highest consumers of
(07:59):
power holistically.
So let's just talk aboutsustainability.
That's another topic everyone'stalking about.
I know that I spoke to one ofyour counterparts recently in
Ericsson as well and talkingabout even things like eSIMs how
that's going to really help.
Just waste it sounds small forpeople who think of a normal SIM
, but still a plastic and allthat.
Can you just touch on a bitmore around that private LTE 5G
and how these things arecontributing towards sustainable
(08:20):
business practices?
Ian Ross (08:22):
Yeah.
So I think it comes back towhat I was saying before.
It's a foundation.
I've done a lot of work in themining sector.
You look at the shift towardsthe electrified, digitized,
automated mine.
That's a key sustainabilityobjective Electrification
running out, diesel, dieselfumes so the ability to drive
those technologies out there iskey.
And I think, to take a step back, when you look at
(08:44):
sustainability initiatives,whether it's clean technology
adoption, whether it's resourceand biodiversity monitoring,
whether it's digitalisation orelectrification, everything
involves data.
Right, there's no point drivinga sustainability initiative if
you can't measure it and reporton it.
In fact, when you look at ESG,that's the biggest criticism of
many ESG initiatives Great inprinciple, but are you
(09:05):
monitoring, are you reporting itand are you actually evaluating
your success?
So, with everything beingdata-driven, I think the impact
these private selling networksare having on sustainability is
the ability to capture that data, to monitor the performance, to
introduce the new tools thatdrive that sustainability
benefit, whether it's a sensoror control system that can
monitor level activity and turnlights or heating off, whether
(09:27):
it's more refined just-in-timecontrol of the system, whether
it's the ability to pulltelemetry from a truck or a
vehicle and realise that theoptimal speed and optimal angle
to go up a ramp.
That's the power of privateselling.
It's the connectivity of thedata that can be analysed to
unlock the knowledge of thebusiness to drive those
sustainability outcomes.
(09:48):
But we do our own bit.
If you move away from privateselling and you think of
large-scale mobile networks, Ithink Australia you can cover
Australia with 10,000 celltowers.
Right In New Zealand it's 2,500cell towers to cover the
population Within those markets.
That's a huge amount oftechnology running 24 by 7
consuming power.
What we have done as amanufacturer, designer of
(10:10):
equipment in this space is we'veworked to break the energy
curve.
So I think we are now lookingat a 30 to 60% reduction in
power consumption for thesenetworks.
So, yes, we're the enablingelement for other technologies,
but we do our bit as well interms of sustainability.
Michael van Rooyen (10:28):
Sure, that's significant.
I mean, that's a lot of change.
Yeah, to give you an idea ofwhere it's come.
Ian Ross (10:33):
we put our radios to sleep in those little fractions
of a millisecond when they'renot sending data.
We call it micro-sleep,transmit Right.
So when the radio is nottransmitting, so it's pausing
for like 20 milliseconds, itwill take a nap and then wake up
again.
So that provides these powerbenefits.
So it's insane what theengineers can do Unbelievable
Without affecting quality,without affecting services.
Michael van Rooyen (10:55):
I mean it's minor, but it reminds me very
much of when they rolled out thestop starting cars right the.
It reminds me very much of whenthey rolled out the stop
starting cars right, the trafficjams right.
Ian Ross (11:01):
It is, it's almost the same.
It's just at the lights for acouple of minutes.
We're now looking atmilliseconds.
Yeah, of course.
And it all adds up over timeno-transcript to turn off some
(11:32):
of the capacity in the network.
That's amazing.
Now we don't see that as muchin enterprise, because the
networks aren't that large.
But the same principles flowthrough to what we're doing and
I think in 2010, our radios, asa data point, might've consumed
100 watts of power per transmitbranch.
That same sort of radiotechnology, with evolution, is
(11:52):
now down to, I think, six wattsper transmit branch.
Michael van Rooyen (11:54):
Wow, that's massive.
Ian Ross (11:54):
Yeah, that's crazy.
So lots of little thingshappening all over the place.
Michael van Rooyen (11:58):
Wow, that's fantastic.
Are you trying to helpcustomers with their journey to
sustainability, using thetechnology to deliver their
sustainable outcomes, but alsowhat you guys are doing to
support that?
I want to pivot a little bitnow from a lot of technology,
and I could talk about this forthe rest of the day.
Ian Ross (12:12):
all the technology.
Stop me, no, no.
Michael van Rooyen (12:15):
And I absolutely love it.
I also wanted to probably justtouch on a few technology
leadership type questions foryou, because obviously you've
been in many, many businessesand run teams et cetera with
teams.
I guess what I'm keen tounderstand from your point of
view as a leader in the space,what are kind of the leadership
principles you believe areessential for driving innovation
and achieving strategic goalswith customers, internally et
cetera?
Ian Ross (12:34):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I'd start with an open mindset.
This industry we're in whetherit's technology, whether it's
using technology changes so fast.
As I said, there's no rightanswers.
We don't even know sometimesthe problems we're trying to
solve.
So I think the fundamental tome is it's an open mindset.
There's also recognition.
There's no right answer,there's no fixed answers.
(12:55):
There's no silver bullets.
You have to be prepared toinnovate.
You have to and I think I'veprobably got the Ericsson
brainwashing here but you haveto imagine possible, which is
what we have as an ethos in ourcompany.
And I think the other thinghere is it's okay to fail.
I was at a customer conferencethe other week and they
(13:15):
mentioned a company's introduceda chief of failure.
Michael van Rooyen (13:19):
Now, I think , that's pretty radical.
Ian Ross (13:20):
I don't think you want to say when I want to grow up,
I want to introduced a chief offailure Now.
I think that's pretty radical.
I don't think you want to sitthere and say when I want to
grow up I want to be a chief offailure, but I think the essence
of what they're getting at isthat innovation.
You've got to experiment,you've got to try new things,
and I think that's my keythought in this space Push the
boundaries, explore new ways ofdoing things, particularly when
we look at what you can do withtechnologies like private
cellular.
(13:40):
It gives you the ability totake on new challenges.
Don't be afraid to try them.
Yes, right, obviously, do it ina very safe way that doesn't
impact production, of course,but that's my view.
Yeah great.
Michael van Rooyen (13:51):
And then if I think of the role you run for
Australia and New Zealand andagain working with your
counterparts globally, the techindustry is very fast-paced,
right and always changing, andthat's one thing I think you
touched on at the beginning ofour conversation.
One thing I enjoy and I'vealways enjoyed about industry
I've worked in no other industryis tech, and it changes all the
time and I love it because itnever gets boring.
There's always a challenge,there's always ways to do things
and there's always fascinatingoutcomes.
(14:13):
But for you, and particularlyin Ericsson, how do you guys
remain agile and responsive tomarket changes and customer
needs?
Ian Ross (14:19):
Yeah, I think there's a great example here.
We have something like a 35,000strong engineering R&D
workforce 35% of the company isan R&D function and we don't
lose sight of the fact that whatwe need to do is to drive the
innovation.
So we use that capability towork very closely with our
customers to understand whatthey're doing, what they want to
(14:40):
do, and then we translate thatinto a technical capability.
And the same thing inenterprise.
We look at what's the ambition,what's the business direction,
and that boils down to how cantechnology, as we have it today
or as we think we're evolving it, be used?
And a great example is AI.
We spoke about this before.
Right, all of our engineers areAI trained 35,000 of them.
(15:01):
We've all gone throughbasically the equivalent of the
Masters of AI type ofarrangement Not university
masters, but the boot camp typeof AI education and they've been
trained to know what AI is andhow to use it.
And they're encouraged toidentify where the technology
can be used to streamline whatthey do, how we operate our
(15:21):
technology or simply add newcapabilities to our products.
That's very cool, right?
They're encouraged to push theboundaries and bring ideas and
drive the evolution.
Yes, and I think that's reallyhow we stay ahead.
It's like we look at technology, we invest in it, we explore it
, we embrace it.
We're not afraid to try it.
There will be some failures onthe way, of course, but, again,
you don't learn without failures.
(15:42):
The key point is to recognizewhy it went wrong and then to go
back and learn from thatexperience.
So that's how we do it.
That literacy, that capability,that digital comprehension is a
core competency of anyorganization that wants to see
in this tech world.
Michael van Rooyen (15:59):
And knowing that your life is really
connectivity and you've comefrom many flavors of the space,
if you think about the growthtrajectory, and we'll continue
to see this connectivity grow,which means it's going to be a
whole emerging tech field,although Eric's been doing it
for a long time and it's beenaround a while, but I can
definitely see, as we open, moreopportunities to build these
sorts of networks and helpenterprises, et cetera.
There'll be new leaders.
(16:19):
What sort of advice would yougive them to become leaders in
the space or get involved in theconnectivity space?
Ian Ross (16:25):
My advice would stay across the industry trends, just
not those in ICT, but also theend users, the people who are
driving the adoption oftechnology.
If you understand their trendsthen you'd be more valuable to
them.
So just not the technologytrends, the business trends, the
overarching macro issues thatthey're trying to work through.
Ultimately, I think the biggestgap we have as an industry and
this is just not the ICTindustry but industries in
(16:47):
general is building the linkagebetween operational challenges
of business and that digitalcomprehension, getting across
those operational challenges andknowledge of the technology.
I think it is a sweet spot.
It's that white space that weneed more people doing that.
Always keep the user and theoutcome in mind.
And Blank sheet of paper is allpowerful, so don't get caught
(17:07):
up in trying to be defined bythings.
But I think the other elementhere is partnering.
We're in a collaborative world.
We have technologies that helpus collaborate.
Not one person can doeverything, so the role of those
trusted value partners up anddown the supply chain are
absolutely critical.
So if you're moving in thisconnectivity space, you want to
be a leader in this space.
It's build that ecosystem ofpartners with the technology,
(17:27):
the capability, the services tomake the projects a success.
Michael van Rooyen (17:30):
Yeah, that's great advice, right?
I think we as technologists getto consume the technology.
We love the technology andwe're all in for it.
But the ability to talk aboutthe business outcome and I
really like your point on itwhat problem you're trying to
solve for the end user is reallythe key.
And look, as we come to the endof this, just a couple more
questions for you, reflecting onyour career what have been some
of the most rewardingexperiences that you've seen and
(17:52):
what continues to motivate you?
I mean, I can just hear yourvoice there the use cases.
Ian Ross (17:57):
But outside of that, I'm the classic problem solver
at heart Engineer by training,engineer by hobby, engineer by
passion.
I just love seeing the problemsand solving them, and I enjoy
nothing more than identifying abusiness challenge, finding an
operational obstacle, ideatinghow technology can solve that,
(18:17):
how can we do somethingdifferent or something better,
and then seeing it through toexecution.
This is my motivation.
Every day brings a newchallenge and I think what we
see here is the potential,mobility, the potential of 5G,
what it can do in helpingachieve these digital
transformational changes.
It's exciting.
Michael van Rooyen (18:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I don't see myself doinganything for a long while,
that's different than this andit's digital plumbing on a whole
different level.
Right, it is.
Yes, as I say, I envy youbecause it's an exciting space
to be in and we're only again atthe tipping point.
Yes, it's been around for awhile for consumerization, but I
(18:54):
just think what's coming isvery interesting.
As we wrap up here, any lastmessages you want to leave for
for listeners.
If there's any other keymessage you want to, leave.
Ian Ross (18:58):
I think it just comes back to look.
5g is a technology that we, asconsumers we we are using more
and more.
But don't think of it just as aconsumer technology.
It's an enterprise.
It can be used to do more withWiles than we ever dreamed was
possible.
When you take that 5Gcapability and you combine it
with these dedicated,site-specific private networks
that give you control over thesecurity, the access, the
(19:20):
performance, that deterministicbehavior, you start to open up a
whole new world of use casesthat we haven't even scratched
the surface on.
I agree, right, and we talkabout augmented workers with VR
and AR, and it might sound alittle bit science fiction-y,
but we're already seeing thepower of AR in construction and
shipbuilding in the US.
Yes, right, so it's a massivegame changer for on-the-job
(19:43):
training and accessinginformation.
Computer vision, ai it doesn'tsound as sexy as large language
models and generative ai, butwhat you can do with
unstructured data and theimportance of business on this
is massive absolutely.
Michael van Rooyen (19:54):
And look, last question which I I always
ask guests of the show andyou've had a very, very
intriguing list already.
But tell me about the mostsignificant technology change or
shift you've been involved withduring your career.
So that's anything.
The whole time you've beendoing it.
What is it like?
Kind of number one or two thatstands?
That's really shifted.
Ian Ross (20:12):
Look, I've been in this game for over 25 years.
I started off, you know,looking at cable telephony, then
got involved digital power linetechnology, which is really
crazy stuff.
That is crazy stuff high speedoptical and microwave.
Converged data networks youknow, wirelessline convergence
been a lot in virtualization.
They've all been exciting, butthey've all been in the same
(20:33):
space of it's just moving dataaround.
I think where we're at now forme is the most significant
change, particularly becauseit's enterprise focused and it's
not enterprise branch officeconnectivity and IT, and here's
email, here's a webpage, here'san internet source.
This is changing processes.
It's taking a harvesting systemand putting AI on it and
(20:56):
connecting that harvest to beautomated and then detecting
what type of weed and puttingthe right chemical on the weed.
You haven't really lived untilyou've been on a haul road with
a 400 ton haul truck drivingitself.
Right, I bet you haven't.
That'd be weird to see.
Well, that's right.
So that's why I think that'sprobably the the most
significant thing we've seenhere.
You've now got the capabilityto connect anything anywhere
(21:17):
with virtually dare I say no,not unlimited bandwidth, but
huge amounts of bandwidth anddata.
What can you do with that?
We're now operating an areawhere we're not constrained by
connectivity.
We have a thirst for data.
We can do a lot more with thedata.
We can connect it anywhere,everywhere, anytime and really
without constraint.
Yes, and to me that's theexciting bit.
Michael van Rooyen (21:36):
That is exciting.
That is exciting and I thinkyou've absolutely nailed it.
I think it's the bottom of thebell curve and I think, with the
constraint of connectivityremoved, I'm a big digital
plumber myself and, of course,network and security security.
But specifically, if I thinkabout the things we've talked
about today, I think that isdefinitely one that is
outstanding.
Ian Ross (21:59):
Well, I think, as enterprises, the first time in
enterprise where we truly havethe ability to set a vision and
to execute a plan for how we'regoing to create agility, how
we're going to advanceoperations with automation, but
how we're going to unlock theintelligence in the business.
We didn't know that sat there.
That's true, and I think that'swhat makes this so dramatic.
So much to be uncovered.
Michael van Rooyen (22:14):
Yeah, we've never been here before.
That's right, Ian.
Look absolutely fascinatingconversation.
I really appreciate the time.
As I said, we could keeptalking for hours, but I
appreciate your time today.
No, thank you very much.
Thanks for having me, All right.
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