August 5, 2025 • 45 mins
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In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Chris and Marsha Lessard—two extraordinary individuals turning personal pain into purpose. Chris, a former Green Beret, and Marsha, a former law enforcement officer, open up about their shared journey through PTSD, TBI, autism treatment, and the challenges of military transition. Together, they founded a brain treatment clinic focused on holistic healing for veterans, first responders, and their families.
You’ll hear how their lived experiences shaped their mission, what the Brain Treatment Center is doing differently, and why community outreach and advocacy are essential in breaking mental health stigmas in the veteran world.
🎯 Don’t miss this inspiring conversation about resilience, recovery, and redefining your life’s mission after trauma.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Chris Marsha how's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's going how?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
are you Doing well.
It's great to have you guys.
I rarely find a couple, a duo,a high achievers that are in the
fight, as I like to say, behindall the things that are
affecting our veteran and oursoft community as well.
So today I really want to diveinto what you guys have been
able to do together in such animpactful mission with your
(00:29):
Brain Treatment Center.
With what you guys are going on, yeah, I'm blown away having
you guys on Broken Brains withBruce Amazing conversation but
now it's my turn to be selfishand get you guys to share your
journey with my audience.
So please, guys, take it away.
Thanks, we're honored to behere and get you guys to share
your journey with my audience.
So please, guys, take it away.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thanks.
We're honored to be here.
I mean I usually start becauseour journey really started with
our son and Chris.
I'll let you tell yourbackground first.
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah.
So who is this dude?
Yeah, no, my name is Chris.
I was went into the army in2000,.
Joined the airborne infantry inthe 509th, went to selection,
went to third group for a while,left that thinking, hey, you
know, there's this, see whatelse is in the world.
Got out for two months and said, screw this, I'm going back in.
(01:22):
At least part-time, joined 20thgroup and then bounced from
20th group and 19th group forpretty much the rest of the time
until I was medically retiredat 18 and a half years in 2018.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So when we met I was a police officer and had no
interest in thinking I was goingto get married and settle down
and stuff like that going fullsteam.
And then we met.
He swept me off my feet, droveeight hours for our first date
and, um, we within a year.
Pretty quickly we were like,okay, we're going to have at
least one more kid.
(01:59):
I came into it with an olderdaughter that he adopted and, um
, he went on ADOS orders atSOCOM, at Care Coalition it used
to be called Care Coalition,it's Warrior Care now.
It's a care rep and we were downin Tampa and we had our little
guy.
He was two.
We had quickly had another.
They're 18 months apart and ouralmost two-year-old regressed
(02:22):
like almost overnight intononverbal autism.
Now, like Florida was great,you know, it was like a
different service every day ofthe week.
You want speech, you want OT,you want it, you have it, you
get it.
There you go, tricare covers it.
But then we decided we weregoing to move up to New England
instead of renewing the ordersand Chris was gone.
A lot.
I mean, I was prettyindependent at that point.
(02:43):
I'd been a cop, I'd been asingle mom before, but we were a
really good team and he wasgone.
We always say like on average,I don't know, it was almost 10
months out of every year foralmost the first decade of our
marriage.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I just lost your video.
Did you guys get a phone callor something?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It popped up something about hand gestures.
Yeah, put your hands down,marcia yeah, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Those pesky notifications I'll block her
hands if she starts to do itagain yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So we moved up to new england and there were no
services, uh, really available,readily available.
I was driving like two hourseach way just for really poor
speech therapy and it wasdifferent.
People don't realize howdifferent it is state to state.
So right around that time TaskForce Dagger had been kind of
following our story and theyreached out and they said, hey,
they're doing this treatment outin California and we're doing
(03:39):
it for the vets after they'reretired, but it knocks out PTSD
and TBI really well.
We're seeing really goodeffects with it.
But off label, they're treatingautism.
Can we send you guys out there?
So just right around that timewe got in a diagnosis of severe
nonverbal autism for a littleguy and I was like, absolutely
put us on a plane.
We had looked into it, hedidn't have any of the
contraindications and we got outthere.
(04:01):
Luke is our son.
He was a super responder.
So at this point he hadn'treally said an authentic word in
almost two years and Chris andI, like most people like at that
point in their ages, had gottenreally into like CrossFit, and
CrossFit is a gateway drug tolike microbiome and cellular
health and we were just reallyin all of it and so that
filtered down to our kids.
(04:21):
They ate what we ate.
We didn't eat a lot ofprocessed food.
It was all organic, it wasreally clean and we had really
gotten into the gut biome stuff.
So that's why I really thinkLuke was a super responder to
this, because now, being in aclinic where we practice it, we
don't always get these resultsbut we do get results.
So about three weeks into thetreatment, three to four weeks
into the treatment, his firstEEG came back.
(04:42):
What typical severe autismcomes back like really high
delta wave, really low alpha.
So the only way we can reallyequate that in like common terms
is he probably felt like he wasliving in a lucid dream with a
high delta wave like that andwas no alpha wave.
So every morning part of ourprogram is morning sunlight, so
I would take the two littles outin the jogging stroller and I'd
run a few miles on NewportBeach and one morning I'd given
(05:06):
him the iPad just so I couldhave some quiet while I was
running.
And I went to take it away fromhim and he was really really
fussy and I said, oh, buddy, youdidn't want to go to the beach
with me today.
And he looked me right in theeyes and he goes.
I was busy today, mama, and Ialmost fell over Like he's
talking.
I go right back to thetreatment center.
I'm like he's talking, you know, and it just snowballed from
there.
So Chris flew right out and, um, he said I'll never forget it,
(05:28):
like we were leaving the SanDiego airport and we're catching
up, you know, and, and Lukejust says in the back seat, he's
like hey, dad, there's a schoolbus.
And he's like pull over, likehe hasn't heard this kid talk
since he lost his words.
And it was it's just like it'ssurreal, especially now, because
to jump ahead I normally don'tjump ahead this early in a story
(05:48):
luke no, please do yeah, luke,now in the combination of all
the therapies we've done.
We just had him retested.
He no longer tests on theautism spectrum, he's a fully
functioning, happy, normal.
You 13 turning 14 year old,really hormonal and angry and I
just can't.
Like you know, he's in thecivil air patrol, he wants to be
(06:10):
a pilot.
We're very faith-based peopleand, like more than anything, he
wants to be a dad and, likeMert, gave him the opportunity
to have his life back.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And it's really incredible because you know we
were in the mindset of thischild is going to be living with
us forever.
You know what are we going todo when we pass?
Who's going to be watching overhim?
And now he has a legit chanceat having a normal normal.
Yeah, quote, unquote, yeah butit our net.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Our goal was never like bring him back fully.
Our goal was with all thethings we did.
It was like how do we just likegive him the best?
Our goal was with all thethings we did.
It was like how do we just likegive him the best life possible
and bring out the best in him?
Like our, our service now, likeI was a cop, he was an army,
like very service orientedpeople, but like our service now
became like how do we do thebest for this kiddo?
And we so blessed, we have afully recovered kiddo now.
(07:01):
But I always say the secondmiracle that came out of that
was like right after Chris blewout, we're sitting around the
fire at that night.
Like back then, when this wasnewer, they were only treating
guys that were already out likethey wouldn't impact.
You know they wouldn't lessimpact the investment, right.
So I'm sitting around the fireand these older retired guys are
all talking about why they'rethere symptoms of TBIBI.
(07:22):
And this is when theseconversations were still really
taboo, like you did not talkabout these things.
And I remember, right, Iremember looking over, it's like
in law enforcement you don'tcross the thin blue line, right?
I look over at this guy andhe's like laughing.
And I'm like stop laughing atthem.
And he's like, yeah, he's likeno guys, these things are normal
in our community.
(07:43):
This older gentleman likewalked up, he put his hand on
his shoulder and he was likeChris, if this is your normal,
you really need to go getscanned for TBI.
And he went home and he did.
And that's really where thatpart of the journey starts,
because if he hadn't said that,I don't think he would have and
I don't know where we would beright now, because he was
holding things up well in everycapacity Great.
(08:05):
We would be right now becausehe was holding things up well in
every capacity Great, doinggreat stuff in the army, big
goals, being a great husband.
But in the in-between, we knownow like what I didn't know then
was there was a lot of darknessand despair.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And I think a lot of it was.
You know, I was, you know,compartmentalizing a lot and I,
you know, and that's what we'rereally good at, that's why we're
chosen to do the jobs we do,right, you know, we can go
through an experience, dosomething and say, all right,
I'm going to put that over there, I want to carry on and
continue on, and I was doing alot of that.
Unfortunately, you know, Iwasn't aware that a lot of the
(08:37):
stuff that was happening to mewas from even from my childhood.
It was a lot of stuff, exactly,and and you know it's funny
because even the childhood stuff, um, you know, again, no one
talks about it.
But when you really startbreaking it down and you talk to
other people in the community,you're like, oh, my goodness,
it's copy and paste.
Um, so you know, I would justshut my mouth about it until I
(08:58):
realized all the stuff that youknow from childhood was starting
to affect now with TBI.
So, background on that, I was in.
You know it wasn't a cool warstory or anything like that.
I wasn't a hero or anything.
You know we flipped an ATV inAfghanistan, rolled down when I
came to, I was looking down atthe sky and then the ground was
(09:19):
like up, so like the world hadreversed upside down.
I was like what in the hell isgoing on?
Then finally it came back Um,it's, you know that.
And then all blasts and youknow flashbangs and bad training
and jumps with, you know PLFsor BS.
Pretty much it's feet head.
Um, at least all mine were.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Dive school.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Dive school blackouts there.
You know all the thing.
I was a shallow water blackoutking man.
Um, I'll own it.
Um, so you know all that stuff.
I you know.
I knew something was up but Icouldn't come to terms with it.
So I would go see a doc and say, hey, I wouldn't, you know,
(10:02):
tell them everything that I wasdoing.
You know alcohol, painkillers,all the things, anything I could
self-medicate myself with.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I would but those painkillers were like, freely
given out by the Viet andmilitary docs.
Like, here you go Percocet andEmotron for everything.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Not to say that there weren't painkillers, sometimes
overseas, while we were there,things of that nature.
So I would go through a lot ofthat stuff self-medicating,
wouldn't, you know, fully sayeverything that was going on
with me?
So they'd say, oh, you'redepressed, here's an SSRI, okay.
(10:38):
And that would just compound ontop of things.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What a lot of people don't realize.
And now so Chris and I, what wedidn't say is we're both in
school to be mental healthcounselors and before this I was
doing some outreach stuff toother special operations wives
just kind of like what are thesepuzzle pieces?
As a special operations wifeand as an autism mom, it's
always like we're grasping atlike what is next, because
healing is never linear andthere's always many components
(11:05):
and we're all like uniquelydivinely created beings by the
creator Right.
So like it's going to bedifferent for all of us.
Like his ACEs score hischildhood you know um score from
.
Like the ACEs kind of assesseshow trauma resilient you'll be,
which I think most SF guysprobably have a pretty high ACEs
from their childhood, reallyhigh, like it tops out.
(11:25):
So his, his healing is going tolook much different than
anybody else's.
So just kind of trying to piecetogether all of these
components.
And then I often hear when, whenyou got, when they got on the
SSRI, they calmed down, but thenthey started having like
psychotic or delusional episodes, like sustained delusions, and
(11:46):
really being on the mentalhealth side of it.
Now I attribute that to you, goin and you hear these buzzwords
that are prominent in oursociety, like anxious and
depressed.
Well, that must describe what Iam.
So I go in and I say I'mdepressed and I'm anxious, and I
don't elaborate on it, and yougive me an SSRI, but shoot,
actually I have a TBI and nowthat's making me literally crazy
.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, the big problem we have with the
oversimplification of theproblem is, when you look at the
Venn diagram of co-occurrencesymptomology, you have the TBI,
you have PTSD and it's wayeasier to say, oh, you got all
these here on PTSD and it's alot cheaper to pay somebody on
their benefits for PTSD.
That makes it easy and wraps itup when guys are still getting
(12:27):
out right now, still, the numberone test when they go to their
QTC appointment for determiningif they have a traumatic brain
injury is a MOCA test, which weall know at best is within 24,
48 hours of a concussion.
And that is criminal.
It's absolutely criminal.
They don't take any of theexperience or the actual
performance and job of theindividual into consideration.
(12:49):
I know this because when I wentthrough mine it was like I'm
special forces, I'm a warrantofficer.
Here's all the things that I'vedone.
They didn't even have myrecords pulled up.
I was lucky that I sat downwith a care coalition provider,
flo, who gave me the informationto say you know what?
When you show up, you show upwith your entire I love me book,
I don't care how big it is.
(13:10):
Print it out, bring it up tothem, because the doctors don't
know.
They don't understand the job,they don't understand what the
capacity of being a guy fromspecial operations or let alone
a mortarman, an artillery man,somebody that's like their
entire job in training and incombat is behind a gun line
these are the things thatnobody's freaking talking about
(13:31):
as being dangerous.
We all think about the combatexposure.
Nobody's talking about thestuff that you do on your
day-to-day job and that'scriminal.
Yes, that's that's huge.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's because it's it's a lot of.
It's not just the stuff youexperience overseas, that's not
as bad.
It's training, it's thelifestyle, it's the pressure we
put on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
A static load yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And many when we're talking about the VA.
I mean, I think in our casethere are times where they held
us up, where it would havecompletely fallen off the rails,
and you know we're being veryperipheral about this.
It fell off the rails like andI think when, like the wives
have these conversations, wedelve deeper into what these
darker aspects are, because selfmedication can happen on all
(14:16):
different planes and whenthey're away it's more
accessible, it's more culturallyavailable and relevant and it's
more like you know, you do youstuff like that.
But then that is really anotherlevel of self-sabotaging back
home which comes from the TBIand the PTSD.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And the problem with that is, you know, she was my
support system.
The problem was I wasn't aroundmy support system, so then
self-medicated when I was awayfrom her, and now I'm doing
things that I regret, I hatemyself for.
And now that's just adding onto all the stuff that's already
there.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
But the VA providers, when you sit down with them I
mean I think when you sit downwith the ones who directly work
for the VA they're a little bitbetter.
But some of them are justcontractors and I remember
walking into one office when hewas doing his rating and he
walked out and he's like sheasked me three questions and I
was and I like drove back to theoffice.
I was like hold the phone.
(15:11):
You didn't even go over thisand she said, well, he seems sad
.
I didn't want to bring it upand I was like I do In all
fairness, I do.
But if you don't and now beingon the mental health counseling
side of it if you don't have anadvocate, if you don't have an
advocate like that who's willingto say there's more wrong, or,
(15:33):
like you know, if you're asingle person who doesn't have
that support system to come inand say, yeah, anxiety, but also
this, this and this, you getlost.
You get lost in the system.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
That's why guys have to.
That's one of the things that Italk about is, you have to
develop empathy, the ability tobe vulnerable, and then you have
to learn the.
You have to learn the abilityto advocate for yourself,
because, by and large, for avast majority of our careers, in
our life, we walk into adoctor's office and it's like
we're a newborn.
We climb up, we don't say shit,we have all these, we're just
(16:05):
waiting for them to saysomething and we're like please,
please, magically know what'swrong with me and help me,
rather than saying I havesomething wrong with my brain,
my left eye doesn't focus, Ican't remember how to get home
and the only thing that goesthrough my head is our thoughts
of killing myself.
Can you please get me somewhereto get help?
No shit.
(16:26):
The moment that I finally foundpeace and found myself getting
help was the scariest moment ofmy life being vulnerable with a
provider and that's when it'slike and it wasn't even.
I didn't even have the ahamoment two months down the road
later like, wow, what got mehere?
Oh, I was vulnerable enough toask for help and say something,
and it can't be our wives.
(16:46):
Our wives do a great job ofdoing it, but we have to develop
that.
That's the hardest.
Freaking thing to tell guys islike you got to do it for
yourself, brother.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You got to figure it out bro, the first time I I
really did it and it took me along damn time to really
understand that.
And I went in there and I wasvulnerable and I was just like
bawling just because all thatstuff just came out for like I
don't know a day or two, yeah.
And then they were like allright, now you got to go talk to
another doctor and do it again.
(17:15):
I was like you have got to bekidding.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Well, I really think too, like and I've never thought
about it like this until youjust said it now Like I thought
about it, but not in thiscapacity.
It's like we went through someheavy stuff with this right and
I knew that Chris is my soulmate.
There was no way I was evergoing to abandon him on this
journey.
But there became a point whereyou know a special operations
(17:38):
wife if you're a good one,you're very good at being
independent, taking care of thekids, getting things done and
right, supporting them becausethis job is their dream and
because they're doing suchincredible things right.
Like you really support thatwith all your heart and your
being there became a time posthis retirement, which really hit
him hard, and he had some biggoals with you know, go, you
(17:59):
guys are always constantlyreaching, which I really admire.
Like, okay, I hit this nowwhat's next?
Where I looked at him and Isaid I can't do this for you
anymore.
Like I can't make theappointments, I can't go in
there and tell the story.
I'm here, I will be here, butyou have to do it and I'm
withdrawing.
She held me accountable untilyou do it, cause you gotta be
(18:23):
fully in, cause I'm fully in, Ineed you fully in on this.
And it took, you know he was inafter that, but it took a full
year till we really synced backup on that and I was like, wow,
I have a reciprocal partneragain.
He did it and he did the work.
He was reading a book every twodays and it was always a
(18:45):
podcast on these differentelements of healing and that's
what really brought our clinictogether.
Most Merck clinics arestandalone Merck clinics and
they are doing incredible work.
Right.
But when we were given theopportunity to open this clinic,
Chris had finally, after adecade on over a dozen
medications and like a lot ofmedication failures, a lot of
(19:05):
side effects was a shell ofhimself decided to do Merck, and
not even because he was goingto do Merck, because he wanted
to get more Merck for our son.
So they went as a tag team duoand they said hey, you guys are
like you know, marcia, you'retrying to be a mental health
counselor have you guysconsidered opening a clinic?
And we were like if we couldhelp other people in the way
we're helped, absolutely.
But we got the opportunity todo it our way.
(19:27):
So we brought in a retiredspecial operations doctor who
was doing a full functionalassessment in the beginning,
because we've got to make surethe hormones are right, we've
got to make sure the metabolicand the cellular health is right
, we've got to look at themethylation, we've got to look
at the toxin load, because ifyou're not purging those toxins
that's really getting in the wayof full healing.
We brought in a nurse who doesshe's a nurse anesthetist, she's
(19:50):
top of her game, but she doesIV ketamine therapy in the
clinic.
We're bringing in HBOT.
We're doing a program with anoccupational therapist, because
we usually see a traumareemergence around week three
with MERT, particularly in thespecial operations guys.
But it doesn't always look likeah, I'm experiencing these
flashbacks.
Sometimes it can look likechronic pain, sometimes it can
(20:11):
look like different things, likethat.
So we've added myofascialrelease.
Every week that every veterancomes in, we offer them do you
want a myofascial release withour occupational therapist?
And then at the end of the yearwe'll be bringing them
counseling.
But we're going to try to do itin a non-traditional way.
We're going to add a lot ofEMDR and neurofeedback and
really hands-on stuff because wefeel that people heal in
(20:32):
community together with a drivenpurpose.
So we could retell our storiesall day long.
Retelling my police storiesdoesn't make me really feel any
better about them, but when I'mpurposeful with my intent and
doing something mission-oriented, it does, and I think we kind
of come together on that mindset.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, it's absolutely amazing to see you guys taking
your journeys and now turning itinto purpose and turning it
into a mission to help others,and that's something that I've
seen.
Obviously, we know this asbeing guys on the ground.
Whenever we go throughsomething, it's all about hey,
get the PDSS guys spun up onthis.
It's always about betteringsomebody else's journey and
(21:12):
shortening the response time,and that's that's what I love
advocating for Shorten youramount of time in the unknown.
Everybody, everybody feels likethey're Superman there and I
get it.
I was there, but at some pointyou're going to hit it.
Everybody hits it, Every human,every human.
You're a human being, you're aman.
You are meant to break.
(21:33):
How do we build you up faster?
How do we build you up fasterand really understand that
everybody has to come to theunderstanding of like.
Look, there's three powerfuldomains mind, body and spirit.
I know a lot of us don't wantto talk about the spirit part.
That took me forever.
That was the last spirit.
Spirit was the last pillar.
It often is for a lot of guys.
(21:53):
But you have to address allthree and the holistic approach
to the patient, the idea that wehave to go to one doctor for
one thing and then go to thenext doctor.
It's exhausting, it doesn'twork and it's led more guys to
feeling hopeless and and thatand being you know, and overcome
by that feeling that it's nevergoing to get better.
I talk about it and I see it,and people describe it all the
(22:13):
freaking time, especially whenthey're not in the special
operations community.
They don't have that.
They don't have access to prep,they don't have access to star
program, and that's somethingthat I like about you guys.
Like you're, you're buildingsomething where you're walking
in and you have a whole suite ofcare, not just one thing, which
is what we need more of yeahyeah, and we're trying to make
it super accessible.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So we take TRICARE for our guys that want to do
RTMS.
Tricare covers the myofascialrelease and we're trying to get
more and more things kind of inthat bubble.
We do really niche in-depthlabs and we get that covered by
TRICARE.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So you know we're not doing the peripheral stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Our doc is great at getting some of that stuff
through LabCorp.
But we are really looking atthe cellular health function,
the toxin loads, you know, theorganic acids, the metabolics
and the methylation, and lookingat just your hormones and your
basic vitamins, like what do yougot going on?
Vitamin.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
D Right.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Do you need your testosterone tank?
Do you need vitamin A andvitamin D?
Well, like you know.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And that vitamin A and vitamin D Well, like you
know and that was one of thethings for me that you know.
Another thing that doesn't gettalked about as well, it's TBI,
ptsd, which you know, that ispart of it.
But, like for me, when I firstdid all that, those really in
depth testing, they found that Iwas extremely high in mercury,
which I didn't even know thatwas a thing.
Extremely high in lead Lymedisease, extremely.
You know, they said mytestosterone was in that normal
(23:30):
range, but it was like armynormal.
Right, exactly, and you know lowvitamin D, like you said.
So it was just like, mygoodness, all this shit is all
on top of the other stuff thatyou already know about.
So, yeah, it is a lot toaddress.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
We're getting all the providers at our clinic
certified in the fellowshipthrough MedMaps and that has a
pediatric focus but it appliesto everybody because it is
really looking at how to bringall these things together.
And at the core of all thatwe're talking about it's either,
you know, the cell dangerresponse or it's basal ganglion
encephalopathy, which isswelling of certain parts of the
brain because of mercury loador toxin exposure, different
(24:10):
things like that If you haveviruses and bacteria that you're
exposed to overseas.
And one of the things thatwe're hoping to hit hard on in
the clinic within the next yearis some of these vector-borne
illnesses.
Dr Bransfield does this greatlecture and he puts up this
slide of the 25 most common thateverybody's exposed to when
they're over there and these arebites from flies and ticks and
(24:31):
fleas and all these things likethat.
The symptoms of these vectorborne illnesses mimic, ptsd and
TBI, rage cycles, lack ofempathy, brain fog, all that.
So we're really trying to bringtogether this program where you
might not have any of those butyou might just have the PTSD
because the trauma is real.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But now you know, but now you know Exactly, at least
be able to test and find out.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah Right, At least be able to test and find out.
And if it's both, what?
If it's both, then we reallyneed to hit both, because these
are not independent systems.
These are interdependentsystems.
You're a whole person.
One of the things withmyofascial release that I find
really great, as somebody who'staught yoga before, is a long
time ago they thought the fasciawas this inert tissue, and if
(25:15):
you peel back an orange and yousee the white that encases all
the meat, that is the fascia ofthe orange.
We have that throughout ourentire body and this is a smart
system.
It's got blanks, uh, stem cellsin it.
It runs energy through the body.
It's why acupuncture works andwhen you have trauma it stores
in different areas of the fasciaStores in your body.
(25:35):
Yep, the body keeps score and awell-trained occupational
therapist that does this wellcan move that trauma out of the
body without having massiveeffects pain, emotional
responses and things like that.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We've known that for a while and Bessel van der Kolk
does a great job of breakingthat down.
The body keeps the score.
We've known the benefits ofyoga since the VA did its own
study on it, but even now, whatdo we get?
Very few VA centers offer theholistic wellness online access
to mindfulness and meditationand yoga, even though we know
(26:08):
they've published by their ownguys, published by their own
personnel.
We know that we can get peopleto unlock movement in their body
that they've not had access tosince they've undergone that
trauma, whether it's a caraccident or something that went
down range.
We know intimately now thatyour body, your systems are
interconnected and if you'regoing through trauma, if you're
(26:30):
stuck in fight or flight, itreacts differently.
And there's so many differentthings.
I talked to guys that have dealtwith gastrointestinal issues,
canker sores through theirentire life and they're they
just treat it as normal things.
You peel back the layer and yourealize, oh, I grew up abused,
I grew up malnourished, I grewup not not having a safe space,
a safe place to go and sleep atnight, always bouncing from home
(26:53):
to home.
And then they start doing thework, they go see a provider and
then all the things theyexperience canker sores,
gastrointestinal issues,dissipate.
All that stress is locked inher body and not enough people
are talking about it.
I don't know if people are.
It's far easier to getprescribed medication for it.
(27:14):
Oh, we'll give you a medicationfor this.
It's like dude.
All you have to do is get theperson a reset, Finally be able
to find that baseline.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And unfortunately, I think, our society, not our
community, but society as awhole.
They kind of eat up that, hey,what is that?
One thing, the one medication,whatever it might be.
So we're kind of, you know, wegravitate towards that because
it's easy, like things that areeasy and convenient, right, and
(27:42):
that's unfortunate because ittakes way more than just that
one thing.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
That's part of the healing journey, though, because
we experienced that even infunctional health, and we try to
hold people's hands very like,empathetically through it,
because once they realize it'snot a magic pill, then they want
a magic supplement.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Right, You're not going to cold plunge your way
out of trauma if you've neverdealt with it right Cold plunge.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You can help, but it's not the end.
All be all, oh my.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
God yeah.
Get your vitamin D, get yourEMDR.
You got to do all of it andwe're trying to create this very
comprehensive model.
But we're not a one-stop shop,so we're looking for people to
partner with to be the resource.
We have a great dentist that wepartner with to keep people off
the CPAP machines.
He does this great airwayexpansion.
We just met with an amazingmental health therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
We got to dive into that for a little bit, because
that is one of the mostprescribed pieces of tech in the
military and it's so commonit's one of the most guaranteed
things that the VA now doesn'tgive a percentage for.
It is a CPAP.
Traveling with that littlemachine I had one that I.
(28:53):
It was one of those thingswhere my wife could not get a a
decent night of sleep.
And it's like what?
What is this constant?
We're not even treating theissue.
We just want you to be able tonot die in your sleep.
We're not going to address theroot cause and it's like and and
here I am like I don't use it,I don't need it anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Such a horrible thing that we're aspiring to not die
yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I don't want you to get better.
I don't want you to get to apoint where you don't need this.
I just don't want you to die.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I think it's Dr Perlmutter.
He wrote the Better Brain bookor Brain Maker book.
We keep it in the clinicbecause it's got such good like
protocols in it.
But he says often like youbetter sleep, like it's your job
, like sleep is so important.
We spend, you know, half ourlives asleep and when you're
sleeping people don't realizethe regeneration that you get,
(29:43):
the healing that you get on acellular level.
You get this wash of fluid overthe brain that clears up this
oxidative stress.
When you get to certain levelsof sleep and you got to have
your sleep you know brainchemicals and things working
properly for all of that tohappen to truly be restorative
for optimal healing.
So you throw in something likeoh, you need a CPAP.
Okay, I mean, if you reallyneed it, you don't know.
(30:03):
On their way, don't diesleeping, but we need to be able
to get you through restfulsleep.
It's a major part of ourprogram.
So what this dentist has doneand many of them do it they've
designed this orthodonticappliance called the ALF and it
naturally spreads open the upperpalate.
It's not the old school thingwe all dreaded with the key in
it that cranks your bones open,but it replaces the way it
(30:25):
restructures the way your tonguesits in your mouth, which
causes your airway to naturallyopen.
When I have it in, it comes inand out every six weeks.
They adjust it for a certainperiod of time and it can work
really well to avoid a CPAPmachine, and one of the things
that comes with it is, if you'resomebody who's been stuck in
fight or flight most of yourlife, you have a high ACEs score
(30:46):
.
You know you're ready for thisjob because you're a go-getter,
you're highly compartmentalizingthings, things like that.
You've probably been in somelevel of fight or flight for a
long time and it becomes normaland you start to feel numb to it
.
You don't understand why otherpeople don't think and feel the
same way like that, because thatis your normal.
It's like me telling you thesky is purple right now and
you're like it's legit blue,right.
(31:08):
But when they put this thing inyour mouth it causes an
immediate reaction to the vagaltone in your body.
The vagus nerve connects at theback here, goes down to the gut
links into all those gut issues.
That's part of the reason whywhen you've had a lot of trauma,
you're having a lot of gutissues and it causes immediate
vagal toning.
And for somebody who's neverhad that high level of tone or
(31:29):
hasn't had it in a decade, itcould be a little weird for a
few days.
But then you start to realizeafter that that, okay, I'm still
hypervigilant, which most of uslike to have.
We want to know what's going on, we want to know where people's
hands are, but the cortisoldump associated with it, like
all of a sudden, that's goneyeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So, like I'm liking this, I'm so like I'm liking
this, I'm digging this, so I'mprobably gonna keep this thing
in my mouth forever, but mostpeople do it about two years.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's great to see those, those sort
of devices come and get morerecognition and understanding
because it gives us options.
That's something that we don'thave right now is the options
when you're going through the vaprocess.
You go through and do yoursleep study yeah, your sleep's
fucked.
Here's this machine, welcome tothe darth vader.
Go through and do your sleepstudy and like, yeah, your
sleep's fucked.
Here's this machine, welcome tothe Darth Vader club.
(32:17):
And it's like fuck dude, likethat, you're too young and even
in your late 30s, early 40s, youare still too fucking young to
be walking around with the CPAPmachine.
Yeah, and it's important tounderstand there's, you know
there's.
There's the uh.
I forget the uh, the breakdown,but you know sometimes you need
it because it's it's fucked uphere.
But if it's because of weight,because of the way you're
sleeping, diet, exercise, dowhatever you can to get off that
(32:40):
machine.
If it's not disruption withinyour cognitive abilities, uh,
try to get off the machine.
You owe it to yourself.
It literally is one of thethings that it.
All you have to do is becomedisciplined, figure out what you
need to do yes get off of itlike.
One of the greatest books that Ialways recommend is james.
Uh, james nestor's uh breath orbreathe, sorry yes
(33:02):
understanding, like theimportance of breathing properly
.
you you guys are talking alittle bit on it on bruce's
podcast, but that's one of thethings that we all need to check
.
If you're not breathing fromyour belly, if you're and you
know this is a diver man likethe breath is the most important
thing to connect to.
Like it is your understandingof like OK, I'm safe.
(33:23):
Like the rapid, shallowbreathing fucks people and we're
treating it like it's a normalthing.
We're treating it like it's anormal thing.
I thought I was breathingnormal, I'm at the peak of my
career and then I found thatbook and I'm like, wow, what the
hell am I doing?
I'm a mouth breather, I've gotbreathing issues and it's like
that.
(33:43):
It breaks it down expertly,marvelously.
I'll put a link to it in thisepisode description.
But guys, learn how to breathe.
It's you think that becauseyou're an athlete, you think
that because you work out, Idon't need any issues?
I don't have any issuesbreathing.
I was like you probably do.
Yeah, you know breathing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, it's like that same thing, like, oh, I know how
to run, but yet the way we run,cause no one taught know.
Same same things.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
But that book is amazing.
I love that.
One Another great resource weuse for that in the clinic is
heart math, and there's alldifferent types of heart math
you can get.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
But there's a new version of it where it's a clip.
It sits right on your chest, itclips to your ear, it takes
five minutes and there's an appon your phone that literally
expands.
I tell everybody I got allthese.
I got certified in everything Ithought could help us.
I did.
I went across the countrygetting certified in primitive
reflex integration and yoga andfascia and all this stuff,
(34:41):
because I have my why right hereat home and we weren't finding
the resources that werecomprehensively.
So I was like, well, I'm justgoing to do it, I'm going to be
the resource, but breathing isone of the huge things and I
went to like this top, you know,world-class meditation teacher
and he taught all the differenttypes of meditation, breath work
, and I did it in class.
(35:02):
But then, like I don't do itwhen I'm by myself, because I am
that same like alpha type, likeI'm leading this and I'm
starting this program, thisproject.
Same like alpha type, like I'mleading this and I'm starting
this program, this part, but Ido it when I do it with other
people.
So if you can't do it yourself,teach somebody else how to do it
, or use like the heart math app, which you can easily access at
home yeah, it's important tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I deal with this on on a daily basis, mindfulness
instructor, certified at mbsr,and the first thing that goes
out the window is my ownpractice.
Yeah, fully knowing tonight Iwill not be going to sleep
because I've got deadlines anddo-outs.
I have to go and what's themost important thing?
The most important thing isrestorative sleep and here I am
already already hard focused onI am not going to sleep.
(35:47):
I've got do-outs, I am in amaster's program and I have to
get things turned in.
But it's life, we're not goingto sleep.
I've got do outs, I am in amaster's program and I have to
get things turned in.
But it's life.
We're not going to be perfectevery single day.
But if I can give you the tools, if I can show you the way and
show you like, hey, I might notbe good for you know, I'm 70%.
That's way better than where Iwas before I knew any of this
stuff.
That still gives people anavenue approach for, for, for,
(36:09):
because some people will take toit, they will see it, they'll
see the benefits and they'lltake to it.
And it's not about being 100every single fucking day.
We're humans, we're notcomputers, we're not.
We're not mark suckaberg, we're, uh, we're real deal human
beings I always say like.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I say it's like what?
Like with mert mert's a goodexample with that, because we're
monitoring your alpha wave,like, like we're looking at your
alpha wave, you get alphapopping where it should.
It's like tuning in an oldradio.
But people always say, like,what do I expect?
And I can give them ageneralization.
But it is like with all of this, like you're walking up the
stairs in the dark and then thelights are coming on each stair,
(36:45):
like you don't know exactlywhat you're going to get, but at
least you're taking the stepsup the stairs.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You're better off than you were before.
Absolutely.
You know, looking at yourjourney, where you've come from
and where you're at today,what's next for you guys?
I mean, it's beautiful, like Isaid earlier, like finding high
achieving couple that have gonethrough suffering, that have
gone through incredible painfulsituations, and then both both
you guys being committed to thebetterment and helping other
(37:14):
people within your community,within your veteran community,
within the soft community.
What's next?
What are you guys working on?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
so I, we're both finishing second master degrees
now.
My first sets of degrees werefrom hopkins.
I'm at catholic, now finishingup another masters.
We both intend to be inclinical practice and mental
health counseling within thenext year Year and a half.
Year and a half.
I plan on going right into aPhD on behavior and cognition.
(37:42):
I really want to work withinthe first responder and special
operations communities.
Chris has got some stuff he'sworking on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
You know I, when I was out in Colorado, some things
hit me out there operationscommunities chris has got some
stuff he's working on.
You know, yeah I.
You know I, when I was out incolorado, some things hit me out
there, um, and so I planneddoing mert, doing mert, yeah,
yeah, not doing anything else incolorado um, hey, don't put a
stigma on it.
That stuff's great for everybodyexactly exactly, um, but yeah,
while I was doingERT I kind ofcame to a conclusion for myself.
(38:11):
So it's there's a book that Iwant to write in my future.
That's kind of kind of myexperiences, but it's going to
be more faith based, one of thebiggest things that I've and,
like you, kind of brought it upas a spiritual pillar, and
that's always the last one thatwe kind of arrive to, and for me
, from my point of view, reallyshould be the first I've to, and
(38:33):
for me, from my point of view,really should be the first.
Um, without that spiritual side, honestly, there's really not
much else.
All the stuff that I've done,it wouldn't have mattered.
If you know, my faith in Godwasn't there, um, so that's kind
of what you know.
I plan on this book and thenyou know other things from that.
We'll see what happens.
But, um, but yeah, we, you knowwe're looking to expand up here
where we are with the braintreatment center as well.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah, we want to move to another.
Well, we want to keep ourlocation in Ashburn.
That's really our flagshiplocation that has the whole
comprehensive care model, but wewant to make more accessible to
some of the active duty andveterans that are like closer
into Washington DC.
So the hope is, you know, we'repreying on it, we're going to
hope to expand closer toAlexandria and still have a lot
of the stuff that we have at theflagship location available.
We want to, we want to makethese programs bigger and more
(39:20):
comprehensive and we keep likehaving all these cool people pop
up.
Like I can do this, I want to bea part of this here and we're
just excited to kind of seewhere that goes and how we can
help a little bit more and howwe can use our story.
Because, like I think behind thescenes we'd always wind up with
like another couple who waslike at the beginning of the
struggle and we would sit downwith them and we could kind of
(39:41):
be the hope.
Because I know when we firststarted with this, when I
realized like how deep thaticeberg went, I didn't know how
we could ever get here Right,and so I think part of that, I
think it's just like especiallyin the special operations
community, like for othercouples who are just figuring
out like oh shoot, he's got aTBI.
(40:02):
Oh shoot, it's almost like he'sgot a second whole life out
there.
I didn't know about um likethere is hope and like we've
always been really strong.
Whenever he was home and wewere together it was like it was
always really really good.
It's better now than it everwas before.
So we hope to be that hope forpeople and kind of guide them
(40:23):
through that and work clinicallyin the mental health space
there for that too.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
That's amazing.
I cannot wait to see all thestuff develop and pan out.
Is, um, it needs?
It's up to us.
There's, there's no QRF coming,there's no outside entity
that's going to help stem thisloss and, um, veteran suicide,
it's, it's us, it's, uh, thecommunity that rallies around
and picks up this, this missionset, and then you guys are the
(40:48):
proof of it.
At any moment, you guys wouldhave been able able should have
been able to just walk away andjust focus on your family and
your own healing, but you choseto go into this and I can't
commend you enough and I and I'mfortunate to have met you guys
and I cannot wait to continuechampioning your cause across
every available uh app andstreaming service that I have
access to, a social mediaaccount that I work for.
(41:10):
So, uh, whatever you guys need,I am at your service because we
need to be able to share thesestories, because you will
inspire other individuals thatare going through their journey
to one day pick this up and sayyou know what I'm going to be
the next version of Chris orMarsha.
We have to be able to give back, and this is the greatest
calling we can find ourselves inin the second chapter of life,
(41:37):
after being first uh, being a, agreen beret, or being a cop,
being a first responder.
We need to be able to findthese uh, and it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Academia is not easy when you get older and you have
a family I know I actually spent, before this call, five hours
in a class, and I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
They're making him do a prerequisite.
He already has a master's insomething else.
They're making him do aprerequisite math class.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, it's a probability and statistics.
It's been a rough six weeks.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Take the wind out of the sails.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Let me tell you that was a hard charge for me.
I got my bachelor's and goingthrough my statistics class and
having to redo math like dudebefore I was a warrant, I was an
18 bravo.
Let me tell you they gave me asupplemental math book for
mortars and I am grateful theydid, because I am dog shit at
math.
But yeah, you know what,whatever we have to do to get on
(42:27):
the other side to be able tohelp, it's worth it.
And I know you're going tocrush it, man.
I know you guys are going tocontinue to crush it, you guys
if people want to get ahold ofyou or want to be, you know,
become patients, where can theygo?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Brain treatment center ashburncom.
You can find us on FacebookFacebook slash brain treatment
center ashburncom.
You can find us on facebookfacebook slash brain treatment
center ashburn.
We're also on instagram, braintreatment center ashburn and
linkedin.
We have a second site that kindof deal details the other
things that we're doing, andthat's loudon
integrativehealthpartnerscom.
Um, and, we're there, yeah,find us, but and it's no cost
(43:09):
out of pocket to any veteran whowalks in the door, so hell yeah
, guys, do me a favor.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
If you're listening, go ahead and pause.
I'll wait, stand by, go to theepisode description, click all
those links, head on over tothose websites.
Do anything and everything youcan to reach out to these folks,
if anything just to say hi andcommend them for what they're
doing, because we need tosupport each other in the
veteran space.
And let me tell you a uh hey,how's it going?
Thank you for what you're doinggoes a long way these days
(43:34):
because, fuck, it is a negativeecho chamber out there.
You ain't lying or how aboutthis if you're interested in any
of the things that's happening.
Uh, one thing that I learnedfrom my time in uh transition
was ask for a virtual cup ofcoffee.
Let me tell you if I could havefound you guys early on, while
I was going through mytransition, it would have
greatly helped me figure out myeducational path.
(43:56):
I figured it out in the end.
But if we can shorten thattimeframe by just having a cup
of coffee virtually withsomebody, why the hell not?
Please be willing to reach outto Chris and Marcia and ask them
how did you get involved?
How did you start your journey?
How did you figure out yourpassion?
Look, we need more of you guysinvolved.
We're not going to get out ofhere without you.
(44:17):
So please, once you're donetransitioning and you figured
out that you don't want to be aYouTube star and you want to get
involved in the mental health,reach out, ask for what schools
to go to Recommendations.
It's a small world.
Once you realize that we canconnect with each other.
Again, guys, thank you so muchfor being here today.
I greatly appreciate what youguys are doing and, to all y'all
(44:37):
listening, thank you for tuningin.
Please like, share, subscribeand throw this out to the world.
Share it with your friends.
If you're on Spotify, you cansend me a text.
Let me know what you didn't andI'll try to improve.
Or probably not, because I makethe show for me and I'm the
only sponsor.
I'm Danny Caballero.
Thank you for tuning in andwe'll see you all next time.
Till then, take care.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Thank you.
Chris Marsha how's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's going how?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
are you Doing well.
It's great to have you guys.
I rarely find a couple, a duo,a high achievers that are in the
fight, as I like to say, behindall the things that are
affecting our veteran and oursoft community as well.
So today I really want to diveinto what you guys have been
able to do together in such animpactful mission with your
(00:29):
Brain Treatment Center.
With what you guys are going on, yeah, I'm blown away having
you guys on Broken Brains withBruce Amazing conversation but
now it's my turn to be selfishand get you guys to share your
journey with my audience.
So please, guys, take it away.
Thanks, we're honored to behere and get you guys to share
your journey with my audience.
So please, guys, take it away.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thanks.
We're honored to be here.
I mean I usually start becauseour journey really started with
our son and Chris.
I'll let you tell yourbackground first.
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah.
So who is this dude?
Yeah, no, my name is Chris.
I was went into the army in2000,.
Joined the airborne infantry inthe 509th, went to selection,
went to third group for a while,left that thinking, hey, you
know, there's this, see whatelse is in the world.
Got out for two months and said, screw this, I'm going back in.
(01:22):
At least part-time, joined 20thgroup and then bounced from
20th group and 19th group forpretty much the rest of the time
until I was medically retiredat 18 and a half years in 2018.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So when we met I was a police officer and had no
interest in thinking I was goingto get married and settle down
and stuff like that going fullsteam.
And then we met.
He swept me off my feet, droveeight hours for our first date
and, um, we within a year.
Pretty quickly we were like,okay, we're going to have at
least one more kid.
(01:59):
I came into it with an olderdaughter that he adopted and, um
, he went on ADOS orders atSOCOM, at Care Coalition it used
to be called Care Coalition,it's Warrior Care now.
It's a care rep and we were downin Tampa and we had our little
guy.
He was two.
We had quickly had another.
They're 18 months apart and ouralmost two-year-old regressed
(02:22):
like almost overnight intononverbal autism.
Now, like Florida was great,you know, it was like a
different service every day ofthe week.
You want speech, you want OT,you want it, you have it, you
get it.
There you go, tricare covers it.
But then we decided we weregoing to move up to New England
instead of renewing the ordersand Chris was gone.
A lot.
I mean, I was prettyindependent at that point.
(02:43):
I'd been a cop, I'd been asingle mom before, but we were a
really good team and he wasgone.
We always say like on average,I don't know, it was almost 10
months out of every year foralmost the first decade of our
marriage.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I just lost your video.
Did you guys get a phone callor something?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It popped up something about hand gestures.
Yeah, put your hands down,marcia yeah, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Those pesky notifications I'll block her
hands if she starts to do itagain yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So we moved up to new england and there were no
services, uh, really available,readily available.
I was driving like two hourseach way just for really poor
speech therapy and it wasdifferent.
People don't realize howdifferent it is state to state.
So right around that time TaskForce Dagger had been kind of
following our story and theyreached out and they said, hey,
they're doing this treatment outin California and we're doing
(03:39):
it for the vets after they'reretired, but it knocks out PTSD
and TBI really well.
We're seeing really goodeffects with it.
But off label, they're treatingautism.
Can we send you guys out there?
So just right around that timewe got in a diagnosis of severe
nonverbal autism for a littleguy and I was like, absolutely
put us on a plane.
We had looked into it, hedidn't have any of the
contraindications and we got outthere.
(04:01):
Luke is our son.
He was a super responder.
So at this point he hadn'treally said an authentic word in
almost two years and Chris andI, like most people like at that
point in their ages, had gottenreally into like CrossFit, and
CrossFit is a gateway drug tolike microbiome and cellular
health and we were just reallyin all of it and so that
filtered down to our kids.
(04:21):
They ate what we ate.
We didn't eat a lot ofprocessed food.
It was all organic, it wasreally clean and we had really
gotten into the gut biome stuff.
So that's why I really thinkLuke was a super responder to
this, because now, being in aclinic where we practice it, we
don't always get these resultsbut we do get results.
So about three weeks into thetreatment, three to four weeks
into the treatment, his firstEEG came back.
(04:42):
What typical severe autismcomes back like really high
delta wave, really low alpha.
So the only way we can reallyequate that in like common terms
is he probably felt like he wasliving in a lucid dream with a
high delta wave like that andwas no alpha wave.
So every morning part of ourprogram is morning sunlight, so
I would take the two littles outin the jogging stroller and I'd
run a few miles on NewportBeach and one morning I'd given
(05:06):
him the iPad just so I couldhave some quiet while I was
running.
And I went to take it away fromhim and he was really really
fussy and I said, oh, buddy, youdidn't want to go to the beach
with me today.
And he looked me right in theeyes and he goes.
I was busy today, mama, and Ialmost fell over Like he's
talking.
I go right back to thetreatment center.
I'm like he's talking, you know, and it just snowballed from
there.
So Chris flew right out and, um, he said I'll never forget it,
(05:28):
like we were leaving the SanDiego airport and we're catching
up, you know, and, and Lukejust says in the back seat, he's
like hey, dad, there's a schoolbus.
And he's like pull over, likehe hasn't heard this kid talk
since he lost his words.
And it was it's just like it'ssurreal, especially now, because
to jump ahead I normally don'tjump ahead this early in a story
(05:48):
luke no, please do yeah, luke,now in the combination of all
the therapies we've done.
We just had him retested.
He no longer tests on theautism spectrum, he's a fully
functioning, happy, normal.
You 13 turning 14 year old,really hormonal and angry and I
just can't.
Like you know, he's in thecivil air patrol, he wants to be
(06:10):
a pilot.
We're very faith-based peopleand, like more than anything, he
wants to be a dad and, likeMert, gave him the opportunity
to have his life back.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And it's really incredible because you know we
were in the mindset of thischild is going to be living with
us forever.
You know what are we going todo when we pass?
Who's going to be watching overhim?
And now he has a legit chanceat having a normal normal.
Yeah, quote, unquote, yeah butit our net.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Our goal was never like bring him back fully.
Our goal was with all thethings we did.
It was like how do we just likegive him the best?
Our goal was with all thethings we did.
It was like how do we just likegive him the best life possible
and bring out the best in him?
Like our, our service now, likeI was a cop, he was an army,
like very service orientedpeople, but like our service now
became like how do we do thebest for this kiddo?
And we so blessed, we have afully recovered kiddo now.
(07:01):
But I always say the secondmiracle that came out of that
was like right after Chris blewout, we're sitting around the
fire at that night.
Like back then, when this wasnewer, they were only treating
guys that were already out likethey wouldn't impact.
You know they wouldn't lessimpact the investment, right.
So I'm sitting around the fireand these older retired guys are
all talking about why they'rethere symptoms of TBIBI.
(07:22):
And this is when theseconversations were still really
taboo, like you did not talkabout these things.
And I remember, right, Iremember looking over, it's like
in law enforcement you don'tcross the thin blue line, right?
I look over at this guy andhe's like laughing.
And I'm like stop laughing atthem.
And he's like, yeah, he's likeno guys, these things are normal
in our community.
(07:43):
This older gentleman likewalked up, he put his hand on
his shoulder and he was likeChris, if this is your normal,
you really need to go getscanned for TBI.
And he went home and he did.
And that's really where thatpart of the journey starts,
because if he hadn't said that,I don't think he would have and
I don't know where we would beright now, because he was
holding things up well in everycapacity Great.
(08:05):
We would be right now becausehe was holding things up well in
every capacity Great, doinggreat stuff in the army, big
goals, being a great husband.
But in the in-between, we knownow like what I didn't know then
was there was a lot of darknessand despair.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And I think a lot of it was.
You know, I was, you know,compartmentalizing a lot and I,
you know, and that's what we'rereally good at, that's why we're
chosen to do the jobs we do,right, you know, we can go
through an experience, dosomething and say, all right,
I'm going to put that over there, I want to carry on and
continue on, and I was doing alot of that.
Unfortunately, you know, Iwasn't aware that a lot of the
(08:37):
stuff that was happening to mewas from even from my childhood.
It was a lot of stuff, exactly,and and you know it's funny
because even the childhood stuff, um, you know, again, no one
talks about it.
But when you really startbreaking it down and you talk to
other people in the community,you're like, oh, my goodness,
it's copy and paste.
Um, so you know, I would justshut my mouth about it until I
(08:58):
realized all the stuff that youknow from childhood was starting
to affect now with TBI.
So, background on that, I was in.
You know it wasn't a cool warstory or anything like that.
I wasn't a hero or anything.
You know we flipped an ATV inAfghanistan, rolled down when I
came to, I was looking down atthe sky and then the ground was
(09:19):
like up, so like the world hadreversed upside down.
I was like what in the hell isgoing on?
Then finally it came back Um,it's, you know that.
And then all blasts and youknow flashbangs and bad training
and jumps with, you know PLFsor BS.
Pretty much it's feet head.
Um, at least all mine were.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Dive school.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Dive school blackouts there.
You know all the thing.
I was a shallow water blackoutking man.
Um, I'll own it.
Um, so you know all that stuff.
I you know.
I knew something was up but Icouldn't come to terms with it.
So I would go see a doc and say, hey, I wouldn't, you know,
(10:02):
tell them everything that I wasdoing.
You know alcohol, painkillers,all the things, anything I could
self-medicate myself with.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I would but those painkillers were like, freely
given out by the Viet andmilitary docs.
Like, here you go Percocet andEmotron for everything.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Not to say that there weren't painkillers, sometimes
overseas, while we were there,things of that nature.
So I would go through a lot ofthat stuff self-medicating,
wouldn't, you know, fully sayeverything that was going on
with me?
So they'd say, oh, you'redepressed, here's an SSRI, okay.
(10:38):
And that would just compound ontop of things.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What a lot of people don't realize.
And now so Chris and I, what wedidn't say is we're both in
school to be mental healthcounselors and before this I was
doing some outreach stuff toother special operations wives
just kind of like what are thesepuzzle pieces?
As a special operations wifeand as an autism mom, it's
always like we're grasping atlike what is next, because
healing is never linear andthere's always many components
(11:05):
and we're all like uniquelydivinely created beings by the
creator Right.
So like it's going to bedifferent for all of us.
Like his ACEs score hischildhood you know um score from
.
Like the ACEs kind of assesseshow trauma resilient you'll be,
which I think most SF guysprobably have a pretty high ACEs
from their childhood, reallyhigh, like it tops out.
(11:25):
So his, his healing is going tolook much different than
anybody else's.
So just kind of trying to piecetogether all of these
components.
And then I often hear when, whenyou got, when they got on the
SSRI, they calmed down, but thenthey started having like
psychotic or delusional episodes, like sustained delusions, and
(11:46):
really being on the mentalhealth side of it.
Now I attribute that to you, goin and you hear these buzzwords
that are prominent in oursociety, like anxious and
depressed.
Well, that must describe what Iam.
So I go in and I say I'mdepressed and I'm anxious, and I
don't elaborate on it, and yougive me an SSRI, but shoot,
actually I have a TBI and nowthat's making me literally crazy
.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, the big problem we have with the
oversimplification of theproblem is, when you look at the
Venn diagram of co-occurrencesymptomology, you have the TBI,
you have PTSD and it's wayeasier to say, oh, you got all
these here on PTSD and it's alot cheaper to pay somebody on
their benefits for PTSD.
That makes it easy and wraps itup when guys are still getting
(12:27):
out right now, still, the numberone test when they go to their
QTC appointment for determiningif they have a traumatic brain
injury is a MOCA test, which weall know at best is within 24,
48 hours of a concussion.
And that is criminal.
It's absolutely criminal.
They don't take any of theexperience or the actual
performance and job of theindividual into consideration.
(12:49):
I know this because when I wentthrough mine it was like I'm
special forces, I'm a warrantofficer.
Here's all the things that I'vedone.
They didn't even have myrecords pulled up.
I was lucky that I sat downwith a care coalition provider,
flo, who gave me the informationto say you know what?
When you show up, you show upwith your entire I love me book,
I don't care how big it is.
(13:10):
Print it out, bring it up tothem, because the doctors don't
know.
They don't understand the job,they don't understand what the
capacity of being a guy fromspecial operations or let alone
a mortarman, an artillery man,somebody that's like their
entire job in training and incombat is behind a gun line
these are the things thatnobody's freaking talking about
(13:31):
as being dangerous.
We all think about the combatexposure.
Nobody's talking about thestuff that you do on your
day-to-day job and that'scriminal.
Yes, that's that's huge.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's because it's it's a lot of.
It's not just the stuff youexperience overseas, that's not
as bad.
It's training, it's thelifestyle, it's the pressure we
put on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
A static load yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And many when we're talking about the VA.
I mean, I think in our casethere are times where they held
us up, where it would havecompletely fallen off the rails,
and you know we're being veryperipheral about this.
It fell off the rails like andI think when, like the wives
have these conversations, wedelve deeper into what these
darker aspects are, because selfmedication can happen on all
(14:16):
different planes and whenthey're away it's more
accessible, it's more culturallyavailable and relevant and it's
more like you know, you do youstuff like that.
But then that is really anotherlevel of self-sabotaging back
home which comes from the TBIand the PTSD.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And the problem with that is, you know, she was my
support system.
The problem was I wasn't aroundmy support system, so then
self-medicated when I was awayfrom her, and now I'm doing
things that I regret, I hatemyself for.
And now that's just adding onto all the stuff that's already
there.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
But the VA providers, when you sit down with them I
mean I think when you sit downwith the ones who directly work
for the VA they're a little bitbetter.
But some of them are justcontractors and I remember
walking into one office when hewas doing his rating and he
walked out and he's like sheasked me three questions and I
was and I like drove back to theoffice.
I was like hold the phone.
(15:11):
You didn't even go over thisand she said, well, he seems sad
.
I didn't want to bring it upand I was like I do In all
fairness, I do.
But if you don't and now beingon the mental health counseling
side of it if you don't have anadvocate, if you don't have an
advocate like that who's willingto say there's more wrong, or,
(15:33):
like you know, if you're asingle person who doesn't have
that support system to come inand say, yeah, anxiety, but also
this, this and this, you getlost.
You get lost in the system.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
That's why guys have to.
That's one of the things that Italk about is, you have to
develop empathy, the ability tobe vulnerable, and then you have
to learn the.
You have to learn the abilityto advocate for yourself,
because, by and large, for avast majority of our careers, in
our life, we walk into adoctor's office and it's like
we're a newborn.
We climb up, we don't say shit,we have all these, we're just
(16:05):
waiting for them to saysomething and we're like please,
please, magically know what'swrong with me and help me,
rather than saying I havesomething wrong with my brain,
my left eye doesn't focus, Ican't remember how to get home
and the only thing that goesthrough my head is our thoughts
of killing myself.
Can you please get me somewhereto get help?
No shit.
(16:26):
The moment that I finally foundpeace and found myself getting
help was the scariest moment ofmy life being vulnerable with a
provider and that's when it'slike and it wasn't even.
I didn't even have the ahamoment two months down the road
later like, wow, what got mehere?
Oh, I was vulnerable enough toask for help and say something,
and it can't be our wives.
(16:46):
Our wives do a great job ofdoing it, but we have to develop
that.
That's the hardest.
Freaking thing to tell guys islike you got to do it for
yourself, brother.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You got to figure it out bro, the first time I I
really did it and it took me along damn time to really
understand that.
And I went in there and I wasvulnerable and I was just like
bawling just because all thatstuff just came out for like I
don't know a day or two, yeah.
And then they were like allright, now you got to go talk to
another doctor and do it again.
(17:15):
I was like you have got to bekidding.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Well, I really think too, like and I've never thought
about it like this until youjust said it now Like I thought
about it, but not in thiscapacity.
It's like we went through someheavy stuff with this right and
I knew that Chris is my soulmate.
There was no way I was evergoing to abandon him on this
journey.
But there became a point whereyou know a special operations
(17:38):
wife if you're a good one,you're very good at being
independent, taking care of thekids, getting things done and
right, supporting them becausethis job is their dream and
because they're doing suchincredible things right.
Like you really support thatwith all your heart and your
being there became a time posthis retirement, which really hit
him hard, and he had some biggoals with you know, go, you
(17:59):
guys are always constantlyreaching, which I really admire.
Like, okay, I hit this nowwhat's next?
Where I looked at him and Isaid I can't do this for you
anymore.
Like I can't make theappointments, I can't go in
there and tell the story.
I'm here, I will be here, butyou have to do it and I'm
withdrawing.
She held me accountable untilyou do it, cause you gotta be
(18:23):
fully in, cause I'm fully in, Ineed you fully in on this.
And it took, you know he was inafter that, but it took a full
year till we really synced backup on that and I was like, wow,
I have a reciprocal partneragain.
He did it and he did the work.
He was reading a book every twodays and it was always a
(18:45):
podcast on these differentelements of healing and that's
what really brought our clinictogether.
Most Merck clinics arestandalone Merck clinics and
they are doing incredible work.
Right.
But when we were given theopportunity to open this clinic,
Chris had finally, after adecade on over a dozen
medications and like a lot ofmedication failures, a lot of
(19:05):
side effects was a shell ofhimself decided to do Merck, and
not even because he was goingto do Merck, because he wanted
to get more Merck for our son.
So they went as a tag team duoand they said hey, you guys are
like you know, marcia, you'retrying to be a mental health
counselor have you guysconsidered opening a clinic?
And we were like if we couldhelp other people in the way
we're helped, absolutely.
But we got the opportunity todo it our way.
(19:27):
So we brought in a retiredspecial operations doctor who
was doing a full functionalassessment in the beginning,
because we've got to make surethe hormones are right, we've
got to make sure the metabolicand the cellular health is right
, we've got to look at themethylation, we've got to look
at the toxin load, because ifyou're not purging those toxins
that's really getting in the wayof full healing.
We brought in a nurse who doesshe's a nurse anesthetist, she's
(19:50):
top of her game, but she doesIV ketamine therapy in the
clinic.
We're bringing in HBOT.
We're doing a program with anoccupational therapist, because
we usually see a traumareemergence around week three
with MERT, particularly in thespecial operations guys.
But it doesn't always look likeah, I'm experiencing these
flashbacks.
Sometimes it can look likechronic pain, sometimes it can
(20:11):
look like different things, likethat.
So we've added myofascialrelease.
Every week that every veterancomes in, we offer them do you
want a myofascial release withour occupational therapist?
And then at the end of the yearwe'll be bringing them
counseling.
But we're going to try to do itin a non-traditional way.
We're going to add a lot ofEMDR and neurofeedback and
really hands-on stuff because wefeel that people heal in
(20:32):
community together with a drivenpurpose.
So we could retell our storiesall day long.
Retelling my police storiesdoesn't make me really feel any
better about them, but when I'mpurposeful with my intent and
doing something mission-oriented, it does, and I think we kind
of come together on that mindset.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, it's absolutely amazing to see you guys taking
your journeys and now turning itinto purpose and turning it
into a mission to help others,and that's something that I've
seen.
Obviously, we know this asbeing guys on the ground.
Whenever we go throughsomething, it's all about hey,
get the PDSS guys spun up onthis.
It's always about betteringsomebody else's journey and
(21:12):
shortening the response time,and that's that's what I love
advocating for Shorten youramount of time in the unknown.
Everybody, everybody feels likethey're Superman there and I
get it.
I was there, but at some pointyou're going to hit it.
Everybody hits it, Every human,every human.
You're a human being, you're aman.
You are meant to break.
(21:33):
How do we build you up faster?
How do we build you up fasterand really understand that
everybody has to come to theunderstanding of like.
Look, there's three powerfuldomains mind, body and spirit.
I know a lot of us don't wantto talk about the spirit part.
That took me forever.
That was the last spirit.
Spirit was the last pillar.
It often is for a lot of guys.
(21:53):
But you have to address allthree and the holistic approach
to the patient, the idea that wehave to go to one doctor for
one thing and then go to thenext doctor.
It's exhausting, it doesn'twork and it's led more guys to
feeling hopeless and and thatand being you know, and overcome
by that feeling that it's nevergoing to get better.
I talk about it and I see it,and people describe it all the
(22:13):
freaking time, especially whenthey're not in the special
operations community.
They don't have that.
They don't have access to prep,they don't have access to star
program, and that's somethingthat I like about you guys.
Like you're, you're buildingsomething where you're walking
in and you have a whole suite ofcare, not just one thing, which
is what we need more of yeahyeah, and we're trying to make
it super accessible.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So we take TRICARE for our guys that want to do
RTMS.
Tricare covers the myofascialrelease and we're trying to get
more and more things kind of inthat bubble.
We do really niche in-depthlabs and we get that covered by
TRICARE.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So you know we're not doing the peripheral stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Our doc is great at getting some of that stuff
through LabCorp.
But we are really looking atthe cellular health function,
the toxin loads, you know, theorganic acids, the metabolics
and the methylation, and lookingat just your hormones and your
basic vitamins, like what do yougot going on?
Vitamin.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
D Right.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Do you need your testosterone tank?
Do you need vitamin A andvitamin D?
Well, like you know.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And that vitamin A and vitamin D Well, like you
know and that was one of thethings for me that you know.
Another thing that doesn't gettalked about as well, it's TBI,
ptsd, which you know, that ispart of it.
But, like for me, when I firstdid all that, those really in
depth testing, they found that Iwas extremely high in mercury,
which I didn't even know thatwas a thing.
Extremely high in lead Lymedisease, extremely.
You know, they said mytestosterone was in that normal
(23:30):
range, but it was like armynormal.
Right, exactly, and you know lowvitamin D, like you said.
So it was just like, mygoodness, all this shit is all
on top of the other stuff thatyou already know about.
So, yeah, it is a lot toaddress.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
We're getting all the providers at our clinic
certified in the fellowshipthrough MedMaps and that has a
pediatric focus but it appliesto everybody because it is
really looking at how to bringall these things together.
And at the core of all thatwe're talking about it's either,
you know, the cell dangerresponse or it's basal ganglion
encephalopathy, which isswelling of certain parts of the
brain because of mercury loador toxin exposure, different
(24:10):
things like that If you haveviruses and bacteria that you're
exposed to overseas.
And one of the things thatwe're hoping to hit hard on in
the clinic within the next yearis some of these vector-borne
illnesses.
Dr Bransfield does this greatlecture and he puts up this
slide of the 25 most common thateverybody's exposed to when
they're over there and these arebites from flies and ticks and
(24:31):
fleas and all these things likethat.
The symptoms of these vectorborne illnesses mimic, ptsd and
TBI, rage cycles, lack ofempathy, brain fog, all that.
So we're really trying to bringtogether this program where you
might not have any of those butyou might just have the PTSD
because the trauma is real.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But now you know, but now you know Exactly, at least
be able to test and find out.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah Right, At least be able to test and find out.
And if it's both, what?
If it's both, then we reallyneed to hit both, because these
are not independent systems.
These are interdependentsystems.
You're a whole person.
One of the things withmyofascial release that I find
really great, as somebody who'staught yoga before, is a long
time ago they thought the fasciawas this inert tissue, and if
(25:15):
you peel back an orange and yousee the white that encases all
the meat, that is the fascia ofthe orange.
We have that throughout ourentire body and this is a smart
system.
It's got blanks, uh, stem cellsin it.
It runs energy through the body.
It's why acupuncture works andwhen you have trauma it stores
in different areas of the fasciaStores in your body.
(25:35):
Yep, the body keeps score and awell-trained occupational
therapist that does this wellcan move that trauma out of the
body without having massiveeffects pain, emotional
responses and things like that.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We've known that for a while and Bessel van der Kolk
does a great job of breakingthat down.
The body keeps the score.
We've known the benefits ofyoga since the VA did its own
study on it, but even now, whatdo we get?
Very few VA centers offer theholistic wellness online access
to mindfulness and meditationand yoga, even though we know
(26:08):
they've published by their ownguys, published by their own
personnel.
We know that we can get peopleto unlock movement in their body
that they've not had access tosince they've undergone that
trauma, whether it's a caraccident or something that went
down range.
We know intimately now thatyour body, your systems are
interconnected and if you'regoing through trauma, if you're
(26:30):
stuck in fight or flight, itreacts differently.
And there's so many differentthings.
I talked to guys that have dealtwith gastrointestinal issues,
canker sores through theirentire life and they're they
just treat it as normal things.
You peel back the layer and yourealize, oh, I grew up abused,
I grew up malnourished, I grewup not not having a safe space,
a safe place to go and sleep atnight, always bouncing from home
(26:53):
to home.
And then they start doing thework, they go see a provider and
then all the things theyexperience canker sores,
gastrointestinal issues,dissipate.
All that stress is locked inher body and not enough people
are talking about it.
I don't know if people are.
It's far easier to getprescribed medication for it.
(27:14):
Oh, we'll give you a medicationfor this.
It's like dude.
All you have to do is get theperson a reset, Finally be able
to find that baseline.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And unfortunately, I think, our society, not our
community, but society as awhole.
They kind of eat up that, hey,what is that?
One thing, the one medication,whatever it might be.
So we're kind of, you know, wegravitate towards that because
it's easy, like things that areeasy and convenient, right, and
(27:42):
that's unfortunate because ittakes way more than just that
one thing.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
That's part of the healing journey, though, because
we experienced that even infunctional health, and we try to
hold people's hands very like,empathetically through it,
because once they realize it'snot a magic pill, then they want
a magic supplement.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Right, You're not going to cold plunge your way
out of trauma if you've neverdealt with it right Cold plunge.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You can help, but it's not the end.
All be all, oh my.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
God yeah.
Get your vitamin D, get yourEMDR.
You got to do all of it andwe're trying to create this very
comprehensive model.
But we're not a one-stop shop,so we're looking for people to
partner with to be the resource.
We have a great dentist that wepartner with to keep people off
the CPAP machines.
He does this great airwayexpansion.
We just met with an amazingmental health therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
We got to dive into that for a little bit, because
that is one of the mostprescribed pieces of tech in the
military and it's so commonit's one of the most guaranteed
things that the VA now doesn'tgive a percentage for.
It is a CPAP.
Traveling with that littlemachine I had one that I.
(28:53):
It was one of those thingswhere my wife could not get a a
decent night of sleep.
And it's like what?
What is this constant?
We're not even treating theissue.
We just want you to be able tonot die in your sleep.
We're not going to address theroot cause and it's like and and
here I am like I don't use it,I don't need it anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Such a horrible thing that we're aspiring to not die
yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I don't want you to get better.
I don't want you to get to apoint where you don't need this.
I just don't want you to die.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I think it's Dr Perlmutter.
He wrote the Better Brain bookor Brain Maker book.
We keep it in the clinicbecause it's got such good like
protocols in it.
But he says often like youbetter sleep, like it's your job
, like sleep is so important.
We spend, you know, half ourlives asleep and when you're
sleeping people don't realizethe regeneration that you get,
(29:43):
the healing that you get on acellular level.
You get this wash of fluid overthe brain that clears up this
oxidative stress.
When you get to certain levelsof sleep and you got to have
your sleep you know brainchemicals and things working
properly for all of that tohappen to truly be restorative
for optimal healing.
So you throw in something likeoh, you need a CPAP.
Okay, I mean, if you reallyneed it, you don't know.
(30:03):
On their way, don't diesleeping, but we need to be able
to get you through restfulsleep.
It's a major part of ourprogram.
So what this dentist has doneand many of them do it they've
designed this orthodonticappliance called the ALF and it
naturally spreads open the upperpalate.
It's not the old school thingwe all dreaded with the key in
it that cranks your bones open,but it replaces the way it
(30:25):
restructures the way your tonguesits in your mouth, which
causes your airway to naturallyopen.
When I have it in, it comes inand out every six weeks.
They adjust it for a certainperiod of time and it can work
really well to avoid a CPAPmachine, and one of the things
that comes with it is, if you'resomebody who's been stuck in
fight or flight most of yourlife, you have a high ACEs score
(30:46):
.
You know you're ready for thisjob because you're a go-getter,
you're highly compartmentalizingthings, things like that.
You've probably been in somelevel of fight or flight for a
long time and it becomes normaland you start to feel numb to it
.
You don't understand why otherpeople don't think and feel the
same way like that, because thatis your normal.
It's like me telling you thesky is purple right now and
you're like it's legit blue,right.
(31:08):
But when they put this thing inyour mouth it causes an
immediate reaction to the vagaltone in your body.
The vagus nerve connects at theback here, goes down to the gut
links into all those gut issues.
That's part of the reason whywhen you've had a lot of trauma,
you're having a lot of gutissues and it causes immediate
vagal toning.
And for somebody who's neverhad that high level of tone or
(31:29):
hasn't had it in a decade, itcould be a little weird for a
few days.
But then you start to realizeafter that that, okay, I'm still
hypervigilant, which most of uslike to have.
We want to know what's going on, we want to know where people's
hands are, but the cortisoldump associated with it, like
all of a sudden, that's goneyeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So, like I'm liking this, I'm so like I'm liking
this, I'm digging this, so I'mprobably gonna keep this thing
in my mouth forever, but mostpeople do it about two years.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's great to see those, those sort
of devices come and get morerecognition and understanding
because it gives us options.
That's something that we don'thave right now is the options
when you're going through the vaprocess.
You go through and do yoursleep study yeah, your sleep's
fucked.
Here's this machine, welcome tothe darth vader.
Go through and do your sleepstudy and like, yeah, your
sleep's fucked.
Here's this machine, welcome tothe Darth Vader club.
(32:17):
And it's like fuck dude, likethat, you're too young and even
in your late 30s, early 40s, youare still too fucking young to
be walking around with the CPAPmachine.
Yeah, and it's important tounderstand there's, you know
there's.
There's the uh.
I forget the uh, the breakdown,but you know sometimes you need
it because it's it's fucked uphere.
But if it's because of weight,because of the way you're
sleeping, diet, exercise, dowhatever you can to get off that
(32:40):
machine.
If it's not disruption withinyour cognitive abilities, uh,
try to get off the machine.
You owe it to yourself.
It literally is one of thethings that it.
All you have to do is becomedisciplined, figure out what you
need to do yes get off of itlike.
One of the greatest books that Ialways recommend is james.
Uh, james nestor's uh breath orbreathe, sorry yes
(33:02):
understanding, like theimportance of breathing properly
.
you you guys are talking alittle bit on it on bruce's
podcast, but that's one of thethings that we all need to check
.
If you're not breathing fromyour belly, if you're and you
know this is a diver man likethe breath is the most important
thing to connect to.
Like it is your understandingof like OK, I'm safe.
(33:23):
Like the rapid, shallowbreathing fucks people and we're
treating it like it's a normalthing.
We're treating it like it's anormal thing.
I thought I was breathingnormal, I'm at the peak of my
career and then I found thatbook and I'm like, wow, what the
hell am I doing?
I'm a mouth breather, I've gotbreathing issues and it's like
that.
(33:43):
It breaks it down expertly,marvelously.
I'll put a link to it in thisepisode description.
But guys, learn how to breathe.
It's you think that becauseyou're an athlete, you think
that because you work out, Idon't need any issues?
I don't have any issuesbreathing.
I was like you probably do.
Yeah, you know breathing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, it's like that same thing, like, oh, I know how
to run, but yet the way we run,cause no one taught know.
Same same things.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
But that book is amazing.
I love that.
One Another great resource weuse for that in the clinic is
heart math, and there's alldifferent types of heart math
you can get.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
But there's a new version of it where it's a clip.
It sits right on your chest, itclips to your ear, it takes
five minutes and there's an appon your phone that literally
expands.
I tell everybody I got allthese.
I got certified in everything Ithought could help us.
I did.
I went across the countrygetting certified in primitive
reflex integration and yoga andfascia and all this stuff,
(34:41):
because I have my why right hereat home and we weren't finding
the resources that werecomprehensively.
So I was like, well, I'm justgoing to do it, I'm going to be
the resource, but breathing isone of the huge things and I
went to like this top, you know,world-class meditation teacher
and he taught all the differenttypes of meditation, breath work
, and I did it in class.
(35:02):
But then, like I don't do itwhen I'm by myself, because I am
that same like alpha type, likeI'm leading this and I'm
starting this program, thisproject.
Same like alpha type, like I'mleading this and I'm starting
this program, this part, but Ido it when I do it with other
people.
So if you can't do it yourself,teach somebody else how to do it
, or use like the heart math app, which you can easily access at
home yeah, it's important tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I deal with this on on a daily basis, mindfulness
instructor, certified at mbsr,and the first thing that goes
out the window is my ownpractice.
Yeah, fully knowing tonight Iwill not be going to sleep
because I've got deadlines anddo-outs.
I have to go and what's themost important thing?
The most important thing isrestorative sleep and here I am
already already hard focused onI am not going to sleep.
(35:47):
I've got do-outs, I am in amaster's program and I have to
get things turned in.
But it's life, we're not goingto sleep.
I've got do outs, I am in amaster's program and I have to
get things turned in.
But it's life.
We're not going to be perfectevery single day.
But if I can give you the tools, if I can show you the way and
show you like, hey, I might notbe good for you know, I'm 70%.
That's way better than where Iwas before I knew any of this
stuff.
That still gives people anavenue approach for, for, for,
(36:09):
because some people will take toit, they will see it, they'll
see the benefits and they'lltake to it.
And it's not about being 100every single fucking day.
We're humans, we're notcomputers, we're not.
We're not mark suckaberg, we're, uh, we're real deal human
beings I always say like.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I say it's like what?
Like with mert mert's a goodexample with that, because we're
monitoring your alpha wave,like, like we're looking at your
alpha wave, you get alphapopping where it should.
It's like tuning in an oldradio.
But people always say, like,what do I expect?
And I can give them ageneralization.
But it is like with all of this, like you're walking up the
stairs in the dark and then thelights are coming on each stair,
(36:45):
like you don't know exactlywhat you're going to get, but at
least you're taking the stepsup the stairs.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You're better off than you were before.
Absolutely.
You know, looking at yourjourney, where you've come from
and where you're at today,what's next for you guys?
I mean, it's beautiful, like Isaid earlier, like finding high
achieving couple that have gonethrough suffering, that have
gone through incredible painfulsituations, and then both both
you guys being committed to thebetterment and helping other
(37:14):
people within your community,within your veteran community,
within the soft community.
What's next?
What are you guys working on?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
so I, we're both finishing second master degrees
now.
My first sets of degrees werefrom hopkins.
I'm at catholic, now finishingup another masters.
We both intend to be inclinical practice and mental
health counseling within thenext year Year and a half.
Year and a half.
I plan on going right into aPhD on behavior and cognition.
(37:42):
I really want to work withinthe first responder and special
operations communities.
Chris has got some stuff he'sworking on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
You know I, when I was out in Colorado, some things
hit me out there operationscommunities chris has got some
stuff he's working on.
You know, yeah I.
You know I, when I was out incolorado, some things hit me out
there, um, and so I planneddoing mert, doing mert, yeah,
yeah, not doing anything else incolorado um, hey, don't put a
stigma on it.
That stuff's great for everybodyexactly exactly, um, but yeah,
while I was doingERT I kind ofcame to a conclusion for myself.
(38:11):
So it's there's a book that Iwant to write in my future.
That's kind of kind of myexperiences, but it's going to
be more faith based, one of thebiggest things that I've and,
like you, kind of brought it upas a spiritual pillar, and
that's always the last one thatwe kind of arrive to, and for me
, from my point of view, reallyshould be the first I've to, and
(38:33):
for me, from my point of view,really should be the first.
Um, without that spiritual side, honestly, there's really not
much else.
All the stuff that I've done,it wouldn't have mattered.
If you know, my faith in Godwasn't there, um, so that's kind
of what you know.
I plan on this book and thenyou know other things from that.
We'll see what happens.
But, um, but yeah, we, you knowwe're looking to expand up here
where we are with the braintreatment center as well.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah, we want to move to another.
Well, we want to keep ourlocation in Ashburn.
That's really our flagshiplocation that has the whole
comprehensive care model, but wewant to make more accessible to
some of the active duty andveterans that are like closer
into Washington DC.
So the hope is, you know, we'repreying on it, we're going to
hope to expand closer toAlexandria and still have a lot
of the stuff that we have at theflagship location available.
We want to, we want to makethese programs bigger and more
(39:20):
comprehensive and we keep likehaving all these cool people pop
up.
Like I can do this, I want to bea part of this here and we're
just excited to kind of seewhere that goes and how we can
help a little bit more and howwe can use our story.
Because, like I think behind thescenes we'd always wind up with
like another couple who waslike at the beginning of the
struggle and we would sit downwith them and we could kind of
(39:41):
be the hope.
Because I know when we firststarted with this, when I
realized like how deep thaticeberg went, I didn't know how
we could ever get here Right,and so I think part of that, I
think it's just like especiallyin the special operations
community, like for othercouples who are just figuring
out like oh shoot, he's got aTBI.
(40:02):
Oh shoot, it's almost like he'sgot a second whole life out
there.
I didn't know about um likethere is hope and like we've
always been really strong.
Whenever he was home and wewere together it was like it was
always really really good.
It's better now than it everwas before.
So we hope to be that hope forpeople and kind of guide them
(40:23):
through that and work clinicallyin the mental health space
there for that too.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
That's amazing.
I cannot wait to see all thestuff develop and pan out.
Is, um, it needs?
It's up to us.
There's, there's no QRF coming,there's no outside entity
that's going to help stem thisloss and, um, veteran suicide,
it's, it's us, it's, uh, thecommunity that rallies around
and picks up this, this missionset, and then you guys are the
(40:48):
proof of it.
At any moment, you guys wouldhave been able able should have
been able to just walk away andjust focus on your family and
your own healing, but you choseto go into this and I can't
commend you enough and I and I'mfortunate to have met you guys
and I cannot wait to continuechampioning your cause across
every available uh app andstreaming service that I have
access to, a social mediaaccount that I work for.
(41:10):
So, uh, whatever you guys need,I am at your service because we
need to be able to share thesestories, because you will
inspire other individuals thatare going through their journey
to one day pick this up and sayyou know what I'm going to be
the next version of Chris orMarsha.
We have to be able to give back, and this is the greatest
calling we can find ourselves inin the second chapter of life,
(41:37):
after being first uh, being a, agreen beret, or being a cop,
being a first responder.
We need to be able to findthese uh, and it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Academia is not easy when you get older and you have
a family I know I actually spent, before this call, five hours
in a class, and I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
They're making him do a prerequisite.
He already has a master's insomething else.
They're making him do aprerequisite math class.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, it's a probability and statistics.
It's been a rough six weeks.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Take the wind out of the sails.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Let me tell you that was a hard charge for me.
I got my bachelor's and goingthrough my statistics class and
having to redo math like dudebefore I was a warrant, I was an
18 bravo.
Let me tell you they gave me asupplemental math book for
mortars and I am grateful theydid, because I am dog shit at
math.
But yeah, you know what,whatever we have to do to get on
(42:27):
the other side to be able tohelp, it's worth it.
And I know you're going tocrush it, man.
I know you guys are going tocontinue to crush it, you guys
if people want to get ahold ofyou or want to be, you know,
become patients, where can theygo?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Brain treatment center ashburncom.
You can find us on FacebookFacebook slash brain treatment
center ashburncom.
You can find us on facebookfacebook slash brain treatment
center ashburn.
We're also on instagram, braintreatment center ashburn and
linkedin.
We have a second site that kindof deal details the other
things that we're doing, andthat's loudon
integrativehealthpartnerscom.
Um, and, we're there, yeah,find us, but and it's no cost
(43:09):
out of pocket to any veteran whowalks in the door, so hell yeah
, guys, do me a favor.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
If you're listening, go ahead and pause.
I'll wait, stand by, go to theepisode description, click all
those links, head on over tothose websites.
Do anything and everything youcan to reach out to these folks,
if anything just to say hi andcommend them for what they're
doing, because we need tosupport each other in the
veteran space.
And let me tell you a uh hey,how's it going?
Thank you for what you're doinggoes a long way these days
(43:34):
because, fuck, it is a negativeecho chamber out there.
You ain't lying or how aboutthis if you're interested in any
of the things that's happening.
Uh, one thing that I learnedfrom my time in uh transition
was ask for a virtual cup ofcoffee.
Let me tell you if I could havefound you guys early on, while
I was going through mytransition, it would have
greatly helped me figure out myeducational path.
(43:56):
I figured it out in the end.
But if we can shorten thattimeframe by just having a cup
of coffee virtually withsomebody, why the hell not?
Please be willing to reach outto Chris and Marcia and ask them
how did you get involved?
How did you start your journey?
How did you figure out yourpassion?
Look, we need more of you guysinvolved.
We're not going to get out ofhere without you.
(44:17):
So please, once you're donetransitioning and you figured
out that you don't want to be aYouTube star and you want to get
involved in the mental health,reach out, ask for what schools
to go to Recommendations.
It's a small world.
Once you realize that we canconnect with each other.
Again, guys, thank you so muchfor being here today.
I greatly appreciate what youguys are doing and, to all y'all
(44:37):
listening, thank you for tuningin.
Please like, share, subscribeand throw this out to the world.
Share it with your friends.
If you're on Spotify, you cansend me a text.
Let me know what you didn't andI'll try to improve.
Or probably not, because I makethe show for me and I'm the
only sponsor.
I'm Danny Caballero.
Thank you for tuning in andwe'll see you all next time.
Till then, take care.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Thank you.
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