July 14, 2025 • 55 mins
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In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, Green Beret veteran Chris Cathers shares his inspiring journey from a troubled childhood to serving at the highest levels of Special Forces. Chris opens up about the emotional toll of combat, the deep scars left by moral injury, and his personal battle with cancer—all while navigating the often-overlooked struggles of transitioning to civilian life.
He dives into the mental health challenges faced by many veterans, the silent burden of grief and survivor's guilt, and how advocacy and community support helped him find hope. Chris also discusses the mission behind his nonprofit work, focusing on empowering veterans to reclaim their purpose and heal from invisible wounds.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in veteran resilience, mental health awareness, and the fight to support those who served.
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Chapters
00:00 From Darkness to Hope: Chris's Journey
06:38 Military Beginnings: The Path to Becoming a Green Beret
13:14 The Wild West: Early Experiences in Iraq
21:48 The Struggles of Transition: Life After Service
34:05 Facing Mortality: The Battle with Cancer
46:46 Advocacy and Healing: Supporting Fellow Veterans
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Follow Chris on Social media!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brothers-keeper-vf/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bkvforg/
Website: https://bkvf.org/
Produced by Security Halt Media
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go.
The only podcast that'spurpose-built from the ground up
to support you Not just you,but the wider audience,
everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent, it's hosted by me,Danny Caballero, Chris Gathers
(00:26):
how's it going, brother?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good man, humble and honored to do the show with you
today.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Man Appreciate it Incredibly honored to have you
here, man.
I always tell guys I was in thesame mindset at one point.
Everything, all hope was lost.
I was in a bad place.
Shout out to Laurel Ridge Again.
When you're in those placeswhere they take your shoelaces
and you have to start fromfucking the very bottom, you
don't see a lot of hope forwhere you're going to get you
know next few years in your life.
(00:53):
You think like, oh fuck, likehow am I going to recover from
this?
But when we see otherindividuals just like us, with
that same lived experience thatbeen through arduous things and
they're on the backs of the, onthat next part of their journey,
they're running, they're doingbetter and you see them leading
nonprofit organizations andbringing others back from the
void, that gives us hope that wecan someday turn everything
(01:13):
that we've gone through into apositive.
So today, my man, I want todive into your life, your
journey, your nonprofit and howyou continue to give back on a
day-to-day basis while you'restill going through some
difficult challenges.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, happy to talk about it, man.
You lead the dance and I'llfollow your lead.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely man.
So let's take it back to thevery beginning of this journey.
A young Chris decides that he'sgoing to enlist.
And how did you become a GreenBeret man?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's a great question .
You know that was one of the Iyou know I often talk about my
background grew up near, uh,philadelphia uh, I say philly,
but I was really in the, thesuburbs, you know, and while I I
my, I got, I was, grew up andwas raised by my father who was
in the military in the early 60s.
He volunteered, like during theVietnam era, was didn't go to
(02:06):
Vietnam, thankfully, cause Iprobably wouldn't have been born
, but he always talked about hismilitary service and he went to
Germany, thankfully, instead ofVietnam, in 60 to 64.
And he just had an amazing time, man.
Then he went into lawenforcement, first canine in our
in the borough where I grew up,and then was a sheriff for over
20 years, so like 40 years ofjust, you know, from a military
(02:28):
police officer.
So my parents split up and Igrew up with him grading
athletics, but I was always in abit of trouble getting arrested
.
I was a good kid, good heart,but uh, I I think the divorce at
six.
You know I never grew up withmy siblings and it, just, it
just had this profound impact.
I had this chip on my shoulderman and really loves athletics.
(02:52):
That's what kept me grounded,just getting my energy, my
negative energy out.
So from like seven years oldall the way through, even now I
still I try to train, you know,as best I can.
So sports was like huge for megrowing up.
It kept me in school to beeligible and, uh, academically
didn't perform, had scholarshipopportunities for running.
(03:13):
I was a really uh kind of a,not a natural runner, but it was
kind of like pre Fontaine who,uh, you know an early or early
distance runner in the mile.
It was like a head game thatyou had to play, not quitting,
and I think that kind of helpedset me up a little bit.
You know, I joined the militaryright out of high school because
(03:34):
I didn't see a good future formyself in college or work.
So my dad gave me that optionand I went and signed up for six
years right off the bat.
So my dad gave me that optionand I went and signed up for six
years right off the bat.
And then you know, when I wentin I wasn't a combat MOS, which
(03:59):
I, you know I love to say it'smy I got screwed by a recruiter
story because I did.
You know, I was like troubledyouth going down to MEPS and I'm
like I want to be airbornerangers, absolutely Sign this.
So I didn't even know what MOSreally like, cause I was like 68
x-ray, what the hell is that?
I didn't know.
So I got, I got through bootcamp, you know, through basic, and
that's when I kind of reallyfigured out like my dumb ass
figured out that I wasn't goingto be an airborne ranger.
I was going into work on Apacheaircraft and I was like that's,
(04:21):
that's pretty far away fromwhat I wanted to do, wait a
second.
So anyway, I tried out, youknow, and I was in Germany at
the time.
You know I did a year in Korea,went to Germany and a unit
deployed and you know, I wantedto go to ranger school.
Couldn't go to ranger school,wasn't combat MLS.
So I ended up going the.
You know, they said you can goto selection and I was like, of
(04:45):
course nobody in my unit gave meany heads up because nobody was
SF and I said man, that'sreally cool, man, like I really
want to see if I can make it andI wanted to serve at a higher
capacity and do the mostchallenging things.
I don't know why, what drove meto that?
It was just I wanted to checkto see what I was made of, you
know, because I thought I was atough kid and physically I had
some you know good gifts, butmentally I was just headstrong.
(05:08):
I knew I'd never quit, you know, that's all they told me.
If you don't quit, you got areally high success rate, you
know.
But I was like I'm dumb as abox of rocks and I was not
adequately prepared.
I didn't have an infantrybackground.
I always talk about thatbecause I noticed all these guys
(05:31):
that were Ranger qualified orfrom Battalion or Levin Bravo,
and here I show up with likeaviation wings on my uniform and
I was real young man.
I was like I went to selection95 back in the Stone Age and you
know I made it through my firstgo and you know I lost about 25
pounds that I didn't have togive and then that kind of set
me off, you know, like um.
Then I had to go to the nextevolution, as you know, going
(05:51):
through the special forces Qcourse, which was challenging
for me.
Land navigation really kickedmy butt because I didn't have
any background, never did itbefore, you know.
So, uh, you know I had somechallenges there and uh, I was
an 18 Bravo, a special force andweapon sergeant, hell yeah, and
I wanted to be a medic.
They said I was too dumb and uh, same, fair enough, same.
(06:12):
And then I started seeing whatthese guys went through and how
much longer the training was.
And, you know, you actually hadto like, really think, and I
was like I'm a nug 18 Bravo,brother, let's go.
So that's how I got in, man, Ijust uh, really enjoyed it, man.
I went the third group and I wasthe fucking new guy, super
(06:33):
young, unexperienced.
I went through selection as acorporal and I showed up.
I just got my E five.
So I'd never seen it.
There's a looking around,there's like.
You know, I got my E6 prettyquick, you know, but I was like
I'm the only E5 in group, likewhat the hell.
It seemed like it, you know.
So it was challenging becausewe had all these experienced
(06:53):
guys, man, and you know I wastrying to latch on to mentors,
you know, and my team sergeantwas really good and he was old
school and did a coupledeployments and you know, I was
up for my third re-enlistmentand then I transitioned out,
which I later regretted becausethe timing couldn't have been
worse.
You know, 9-11 occurred when Iwas in college and that's when I
(07:14):
, yeah, I called my team,starting up straight away.
Man, it was like probably theend of that first day on 9-11.
And he's like, man, it'sprobably going to be over before
you get back in, bro, likeGrenada, the first Panama, the
first Gulf war.
And no, it wasn't.
And so I went the agency route.
(07:34):
You know, I got recruited um todo GRS.
A buddy of mine gave me anopportunity, said hey, they're
looking to recruit some dudes.
Are you willing to go to Iraq?
I said hell, yeah, bro.
And uh, I did that as acontractor for several years.
Um did about 10 deploymentswith those guys, which was I
worked with some awesome dudes,man, I really enjoyed the time.
(07:55):
It was like the wild West manand, uh, some of the most best
memories that I've got, you know, um it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I was just talking to my, my buddy shout out to you
uh, gaither.
Uh, we remember those guys.
Uh, I was a young paratrooperin the second of the five, oh
fourth, in uh 2007, 2008.
And seeing your guys, uh, youjust just like green berets man,
you, you guys just always looklike you were just the top of
(08:25):
the top, the coolest dudes goingthrough and I was just like
that that you didn't know whothey were, you didn't know what
they were doing.
But I'm like they're, they'rebadasses completely.
Whatever, whatever it is thatthey're doing, they're fucking
crushing it out there, just likeon the same level as being in
an ODA.
(08:47):
And I think many of us had thoselike moments in Iraq where you
saw those those GRS guys andyou're just like, oh shit, man,
like what does it take to be oneof those guys?
Like, cause, I mean, I had, Ihad no idea about that world and
everybody just looks somysterious and we would always
just assume and make up thewildest stories about what it
took to be one of thoseoperators.
And the guys just like the mostoutlandish stories that here
they only get the finest greenberets.
(09:08):
You have to get by name,recruited to do that job.
What was that mission like inthose early years of GWAT man?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, it was really interesting because, as I
reflect back now, I look at guysthat most of my friends are
like.
A lot of them are retired groupguys, right, and I'm hanging
out with through the nonprofit,with all these legends.
You know, at least from myperspective, I look up to these
guys because they had storiedcareers and they stuck with one
element right when Itransitioned, and I don't regret
(09:37):
it.
But at the same time I'm like Iwonder.
I always think like what wouldthat have looked like for me,
like what I've been able causewhen I really matured more in my
thirties, when I was with GRS,and so I knew nothing about it.
Man, same thing.
I had all this.
I'm like, ooh, working for adifferent, you know area code,
yeah, and you know it was kindof like you just showed up and
(10:02):
you had to go through all thevetting like shooting, driving,
physical fitness and you know,to kind of get through.
They were trying to get mostguys were coming from the SEAL
teams or had militarybackgrounds like SF, and so that
was cool, but we all haddifferent backgrounds.
So you know, our backgrounds,with room clearing and things
(10:24):
like that, were just different,but we didn't know that until we
got thrown into the, into thefray.
So I went through all that.
You know it took.
It took took some time and itworked out.
Where I went into Iraq in 03,just at the trail end of the
invasion, it was just likewinding down and we were the.
I was part of the first 10 guysthat stood the program up as a
(10:47):
you know uh contractor.
So we nobody knew what wasgoing to go on.
You know, like there were someold school guys but they never
went into combat.
They were working in differentyou know environments.
So everybody, when we flew in,what was wild is we flew over
with armored vehicles.
We were driving soft-skinnedvehicles with no maps, which was
(11:07):
wild because there was no data.
We had garments and shit likeold school GPSs and Falcon View
and all this stuff, but theywere.
You know, post-war everythingchanged.
You're driving down the roadone day it's free and clear, the
next day there's a wall in themiddle of the road and you're
like what?
So it was really treacherous,you know.
(11:28):
So the first year wasn't bad.
But I just remember thetailgate coming down on the
aircraft and I'm driving thearmored vehicle out and you just
get blasted with the heat andyou look and everything looks
foreign.
Right, and I, you know, I wasin Africa.
I was in North Africa, whichwas wild in group, but it was so
different and we had no AC, soI was driving with no weapons,
(11:48):
no body armor, didn't know wherewe were going to our new
headquarters at Biop, which wasBaghdad International Airport.
We had positioned ourself inthis like fishbowl thing and you
know, it was kind of likearchaic and I loved it because I
(12:11):
see, I assume the worst, likewe're sleeping on the floor, no
AC, bottled water.
You know the deal, yeah, and itwas kind of like that.
But eventually we got trailers,which was nice Cause we had AC,
and I was like, thank God, dude, cause it was like 130 degrees.
When I got the like at least120, not including the heat
index, it was the hottest placeI've ever been.
I worked in the Sahara.
So anyway, like when we gotthere the first year in 03 was,
(12:31):
you know, we're on the roadevery day doing one or two ops
familiarization, like fams wereout, doing like road
reconnaissance for ops,protecting, uh, the U?
S assets, you know.
You know I like to say I waslike, yeah, you guys protected.
Jason Bourne, you know thosethat first year I mean we were,
(12:53):
we sometimes we were going to gofrom one part to get out of
where we lived.
We had to drive down RouteIrish, which was the most
dangerous road in the world atthe time.
A lot of IEDs just going towork, just going to go do an op.
You're driving down, like youknow, they called it ambush
alley for a reason and not muchreally happened.
(13:14):
You know we were conductingoperations and we were doing
things.
Sometimes that we were itwasn't.
Our job was to protect ourprincipal and keep them alive
and not really engage.
You know, unless reallynecessary, if you get hit up and
you lose a vehicle, you got tofight your way out.
But and that's happened a fewtimes, uh with us and, but in 04
, like right in the fall of 03,going into 04, prior to Fallujah
(13:38):
, I was there during that timetoo.
I came back, just really fromthe summer of 03 through the
winter to December, went homefor Christmas, came back and it
was like a whole nother fuckingdynamic.
We started getting armor, whichsaved my life several freaking
times, because these werecommercial armored vehicles and
they were just procuringwhatever was available to keep
(13:59):
us safe, right and ourprinciples and we a lot of my
teammates, including myself, youknow we got shot up several
times.
One of one of the guys got shot.
I think they put like 250rounds on the vehicle, jeez, and
I'm just like thank God forarmor, bro, cause you guys would
all been dead.
You know dudes are on the roofshooting through, trying to
shoot through, and they did.
(14:20):
You know it's like you got toget out and fight, but it was
like the wild west, oh three andoh four.
And uh, you know, I had, I hadbeers with the Blackwater guys
that got killed in Fallujah,right before Fallujah kicked off
, and I didn't know the guyspersonally.
Um, and we're like, you guysare driving a semi down there by
(14:42):
doing what?
Now I was like bro, it's reallyfucking dangerous man, we've
been here for, like you know,eight, nine months and just
getting there is going to befucking crazy.
And they got shrunk up, rippedout of their vehicles, killed,
stripped naked, hung up on thebridge.
I watched this unfold on CNN atthe time and I got so pissed
off, dude, that's when it reallyhit me that, like you know,
(15:06):
this shit's for real.
And but you know, from there I,it was kind of like McHale's
Navy man.
We were getting out gun carryinglike, uh, our m4s.
You know we had sometimes we goa little viz.
We called it this is not pc buthajit up.
You know makeup, you know thewhole nine and you know velcro
(15:29):
so you could get to your kitquick just to keep a low profile
, you know.
But the vehicle platforms wewere driving were sticking out
like a turd in a punch bowl, youknow.
So, bourbons, yes, let's takethese.
I was in.
I got blown up in a g wagon, um,on cadizia.
Uh, because it was a 450thousand dollar armored vehicle,
that this, there wasn't anyother d5s or we even had an h2
(15:52):
hummer that was silver, anddriving down cadizia in a
freaking humvee, like I'm like,come on, like these things are.
That's why we're getting blownup.
We.
We're like these are Americansand they're important.
They got a freaking BMW 7Series or whatever, and so I
would have rather have driven inunarmored vehicles at the time.
(16:16):
To be honest with you, becauseyou're less likely to get
engaged if you blend and you'redriving slow with traffic and
you know you're a trade craft,you have low visibility.
That's the smart play back then, but we didn't always have that
ability and um, so it was thewild West man and, uh, you know,
when it started like the bigarmy came in and they wouldn't
(16:38):
leave their bases.
You know and no disrespect toall the service members, I have
no disrespect, you know but wewere on the road every day and a
sergeant major I was comingback from an op it was like my
third op in the day and he waslike, slow down, he's wearing a
road guard vest and they putspeed bumps up by our compound.
So we were at Camp Slayer,there was a compound within a
compound.
So we were at camp slayer,there was a compound within a
(16:58):
compound where we wereheadquartered, and I might have
given him the finger and toldhim to fuck off, which it got
back to the highest level andthey came back.
You know, I don't know if it waslike general level, but they
were like, hey, some of yourwild guys, some dude with the
fucking crazy beard, justflipped off a sergeant major of
(17:19):
the fucking you know the baseand I was like, yeah, it was me,
my bad.
Uh, I was like there's no speedlimits in iraq, man, yeah, but
from there I went to afghanistanbecause I, you know, when the
speed bumps came up I was like,hey, man, I'm used to the wild
west where we can just be, let'sjust accomplish the mission,
whatever it takes, kind of likethat SF mindset, and you know, I
(17:42):
want to be safe and, you know,respectful, except for that one
time.
And uh, I was like man, I wantto try out Afghanistan because I
want to know, I want toexperience like the differences
in both sides.
Yeah, yeah.
And that was, you know, bothsides, yeah, yeah, and that was,
(18:03):
you know, less dangerous for mepersonally.
I know a lot of dudes wouldprobably argue the point, but,
um, I didn't get blown up andshot up a lot over in
afghanistan I did a coupledeployments and out of kabul and
um, it was just, it wasdifferent, you know, because it
was like mountainous cold.
I, I like that.
I prefer the cold over the heat, man.
And then I went to Israel, youknow, spent a lot of time in
(18:27):
Palestine.
I spent about a year there.
You know, 90 day trips back toback and I'd go home for two
weeks and punch back out and, uh, I just enjoyed it, man,
because the guys I work with weactually have a reunion coming
up, uh, in a month and I stillkeep it, keep tabs with these
guys, you know, and they're alljust amazing people.
(18:49):
You know different backgroundsand some of these guys went on
like the Benghazi.
You know they were some of mycoworkers.
I wasn't friends with thosedudes, but I was really good
friends with one guy that, uh,that was there and he performed,
just, you know, it was out ofout of the world his experience,
fighting back in and fightingback out and staying there for a
(19:11):
very long time, which isn't inthe movie.
And I just respect the fuck outof these guys, man, because you
know, the know, the real humanspirit was what I'm about.
You know, in combat you reallybond with these, as you know.
Because the real you can talkall the mad shit in the world.
And the real you comes out whenyou're under constant stress
(19:34):
and pressure and whether you'rea fighter or a flighter and
whether you're a fighter or aflighter and even with my
experience now with you know,dealing with a terminal illness,
I can't fight anymore like Iused to.
Like I had to give up jujitsuand MMA for training.
I just loved the camaraderie ofthat and rolling with 25 year
old studs when I'm in my midforties.
(19:55):
You know, I just loved it, dude, and it was kind of similar to
the teams.
The real you comes out whenyou're getting suffocated and
strangled by 150 pound guy, whenI'm 215 or 220 and you know,
way stronger and athletic.
It's humbling.
That's what I'm about, like.
I want to show, demonstrate myhuman spirit now being
(20:18):
terminally ill, through myactions, right, not just my
words.
I want to demonstrate anddemonstrate my human spirit now
being terminally ill.
Through my actions right, notjust my words.
I want to demonstrate that tillI can no longer do it and be a
good example of the humancondition and spirit.
And it's tough at times, youknow, but I just love that
warrior mindset man, it's partof my DNA.
I'd like to think, you know, andI often say, most of my friends
have done way cooler shit thanI ever did and I don't like to
(20:41):
compare myself to them.
You know they had differentpaths in lives.
You know some of them come outunscathed mentally.
My combat stuff didn't botherme, but I had some other, you
know, issues and so now I justadvocate for veterans that are
suffering with mental healthissues TBIs, because I've had
(21:02):
multiple TBIs which impacts you,just like PTS or physical
limitations, and I just want toget the word out there, raise
awareness and destigmatizeveterans' mental health and
actually do something about itand save lives.
And it's given me profoundpurpose in life to be able to do
this and I'm just honored to beable to do that for the
(21:22):
community that I came from.
And you know it's hard work.
I don't get paid from ourfoundation.
I chose to do that because Ididn't.
I never trusted nonprofits whenI was suffering because of some
missteps by one or two peopleand I really want the community
to know nonprofits.
There are really good nonprofitsout there that you can turn to
(21:43):
when the when the VA isn'tworking for them you know, yeah,
no, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And I think you know.
Something that I want to diveinto now is a lot of times when
um I compare it to a NASCAR oran F1 car that's doing laps,
when you're still in the teamroom, when you's doing laps when
you're still in the team room,when you're still operating,
when you're still doing the job,it's easy to not pay attention
to your body or any issues.
And then, for a lot of guys,when they transition, when that
(22:11):
definitive end to that careercomes, that's when a lot of
crisis and a lot of issues comeup.
When you were going throughyour journey your, you know,
your, your journey when didthings start falling apart for
you?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, it was really around.
I had this.
Really.
I got hit with a lot of factorsin life at one time and you
know I just transitioned out,which is super hard for a lot of
us, right?
My, when I, when I left group,I went, my team started and sent
me to the recruiter.
I was up for my thirdreenlistment.
They're like you sure you don'twant to reenlist?
I'm like, yeah, I'm sure.
(22:45):
Kinda, you were like all right,brother, have a good day.
Literally, that was what myexperience was, and I know they
do things better now.
Right, Of course.
But because so many guys suffertrying to, you know you go from
that environment everything'slife or death situations and
then you go work at home Depotfor 18 bucks an hour, working
for a 20 year old, and it's a.
(23:06):
It's a.
It's just weird.
Man Like you, don't?
You think you have nothing andat least from my experiences, I
was like man, I don't haveanything in common with anybody,
Like my background is thisweird?
And you know, went to college,went to pa school because I was
too stupid to be a medic, I wasgoing to prove him wrong.
And then, you know, when Itransitioned out, I went into
(23:27):
the fence, worked for an armoredvehicle company which gave me a
little bit good purpose.
But my buddy was in seal teamthree who was my partner.
We worked so man trying asNeanderthals, trying to build an
armored vehicle business withjust a handful of Neanderthals
and provide life-savingequipment.
It was so challenging and a lotof pressure because I knew
(23:48):
these products had to be goodbecause if not these guys will
die, you know, and I don't wantthat on my conscience.
So that was a lot of pressure.
And then I had to get mybusiness degree while working 16
hour days and we sold thecompany in about four years to a
private equity firm.
And about a week later my buddy,John, passed away in Jordan.
(24:11):
He was at SOFETS, which is likea special forces exhibition,
really big defense show and hewas surrounded by guys.
Like we had our businessdevelopment guy, we had a
commander for SEAL Team 6.
We had another guy for theagency.
So my transition was easierbecause I was working with
like-minded people.
So it wasn't as difficult aswhat most veterans go through.
(24:34):
But I started getting anxiety alittle bit being around people
and I can't really explain it,but I didn't want to be around
Like when we were selling thecompany.
I was nervous all the time, LikeI felt like an imposter you
know like now I'm a business guyand I look like a criminal.
We had $3 million lifeinsurance policies and we had to
(25:02):
pick his body up in a suburbanwith his father my best friend,
ron, who was a Green Beret andworked for the same group.
I did OGA.
We picked his body up.
His dad wanted to open thecasket.
He fell 40 feet and then he wasmy next door neighbor as well.
I had a 6,500 square foot houseon a lake, doing great
financially, invested all mymoney from contracting into
property and real estate, had 12properties.
Everyone looked at me like yourlife is so great, you know, you
(25:24):
got all this, all these things,and when he died, it's just
none of that mattered because hewas getting ready to retire.
He had two daughters and hiswife was nine months pregnant
and I had.
When I got the call at three inthe morning because of the time
change, I called my buddy Ron.
He came over to my house.
We had the plan how are wegoing to drop the news to his
(25:44):
widow now?
And she was nine monthsfreaking pregnant dude.
And it was the hardest.
One of the hardest things in mylife that I've ever done was
knocking, making that knock andas soon as she made eye contact,
at 6 am, coming out of theshower in a robe with a towel on
her head or whatever, she madethis whale.
You know.
His daughters answered the door.
Who?
There were seven and five, andI spent a lot of time with him
(26:09):
just through work, being in iraqtogether.
He always had my back.
We're driving in sadar city 10000 strong and it's just him and
I.
You and I hit somebody with acar at a checkpoint.
I'm like oh shit and uh.
They ended up keeping his lifeinsurance policy.
Eight months later.
I had enough.
I said what are you guys goingto do?
(26:30):
You said you're going to takecare of this and they said tell,
tell his widow to sue us.
So I resigned on the spot.
I had no job.
I went through, you know, thefuneral.
I had his urn by my bed and hispictures because his wife
struggled with it,understandably, and I was
dealing with the family tryingto support them.
I was a little absent with myex-wife.
(26:51):
She filed for divorce literallyon the one year anniversary.
So the story is yes.
What happened?
It was like a series offreaking, insane things, like
knocking on the door, my buddy'sdead, you know, at 32 years old
.
We just sold a company, nevergot to celebrate.
The private equity group saidtell, tell his wife to sue us.
(27:12):
I resigned, had no job, no wife, no friend in this big house,
and then I started drinking.
I really started gettingwithdrawing from society.
You know, I just work out.
I got down to like 170 poundsworking with, like doing MMA
workouts, like two, three a days, trying to combat my anxiety.
I was sweating all the time.
I never slept for two years.
(27:33):
I was on Ambien, doing weirdthings and I couldn't go.
I went to my primary care doctorbecause I was getting I was
suicidal then and the you knowwhen anxiety, depression,
ideation, I go to him, I'memotional.
I didn't want to tell him I wassuicidal because I was worried
they're going to Baker, act meand take my clearance.
(27:54):
I had a TS, sci and I use thatfor work to go.
I had to go get another job.
I had all this financialpressure, all these things.
My wife left me, um, withoutany heads up and went back to DC
.
So I was like Holy, holy crapman.
So I just started drinking, Istarted doing pills, doing
(28:15):
Ambien was on, all the things Iwanted to numb.
The static was 24, seven and Ijust was trying not to kill
myself.
That's all I thought about wasthis, you know.
So I finally, um decided tocommit suicide in 2011.
And I don't know what month itwas, cause I was so on so many
substances.
(28:35):
And, um, I put plastic up in mybathroom, tacked it up.
I was gonna.
I was a suicidal, aconscientious suicidal guy and I
didn't even go.
I was on my couch and I had mypistols.
Like 10 AM, had my Glock out, Iwas already hammered and my I
literally had a gun in my handgetting ready to fucking shoot
(28:55):
myself.
Hope you don't get flagged forthis and demonetized.
You know I get a knock on mydoor as my buddy Ron.
He flew all the way from Tulsa,oklahoma I live in South
Carolina.
He happened.
Someone told him hey, yourboy's in a bad state.
And he just had this feelingand we didn't talk about this
till two, two years ago.
Why'd you show up?
(29:15):
You know, my CFO, who lived inmy neighborhood, called him and
said hey, man, he's shrinkinghis face off.
It's not good.
So if it wasn't for my buddyRon, I wouldn't be here today.
He knocked on my door and I waslike, should I shoot?
I didn't want to shoot myselfbecause I was worried it was my
buddy's widow and I didn't wantto put more stress on her.
I was like, even though I justwanted an out, so bad dude.
(29:43):
And so when he knocked on thedoor I went to get it and he
goes.
I said what are you?
I was like in a haze.
You know what are you doinghere.
You live in Tulsa, you got fourkids.
You got a job, like you know,running a nonprofit for a
Christian day camp man Like yougot all these obligations and
he's like you look like shit.
And I go, I feel like shit.
He goes, get dressed.
I said where are we going?
He's like the bar.
I'm like where are we going?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Like where the heart is but, he wasted dude.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
He's like he didn't know what to do.
Man, that's what we did.
We used to drink a lot,remember it was a blur, and
until he was confident, for nowI was good.
But I struggled with that.
I went on to run US armoredvehicle business for a company
(30:31):
in South Carolina for five years, got reloaded to where I live
in Georgia and through all thoseexperiences having panic
attacks I didn't want to go towork.
I'd just go to work, go to thegym.
That was my outlet.
Still to this day.
It keeps me.
You know, I tell people myvanity keeps my sanity, because
if I never worked out and I gotfat, oh I would be the biggest
(30:53):
drug addict on the planet.
Man, I just didn't want to bethat guy, you know.
I wanted to be fit, so nobody.
I masked all my symptoms reallywell.
I hid it from everybody as bestI could and I was drinking
every night like half a fifth,sometimes to a fifth, and um, as
a serious habit it was.
It was.
It was bad man and, like I metmy wife, my wife, uh Jen is
(31:16):
amazing man.
I met her in uh 10 years ago.
I rented her wife.
My wife Jen is amazing man.
I met her 10 years ago.
I rented her house.
I sold my house after threeyears, just wanted to work, had
a dog, Kept me plugged in.
I didn't want him to eat me.
If I shot myself Like it's weird, right, but all the little
things make big differences.
So, long story short, you knowI got married to my wife Jen.
(31:37):
She's just been in my corner.
You know she knew I wasdrinking and stuff, but I didn't
try not to make it impact ourrelationship, which it of course
, did.
You know I was really easilyagitated.
I'd get really hot, really fast, aggressive, and then I
eventually got emotional, like Iwas like dude, what is going on
with me?
So when in 2019, I wasdiagnosed with uh, I was.
(32:00):
I did five more years of privatesecurity for celebrities and I
came back from Italy with aclient and I had some pain in my
hip.
I thought I tore my hip injujitsu like a labrum tear or
something from all the you knowabuse, blown, both knees out
broken, dislocated my shoulder,and I just still kept rolling.
I got an MRI because I'm like.
(32:24):
I told my wife, I'm like, ah, Ijust want to, this is probably
a sports injury.
And they called me, probably in30 minutes, and they said, hey,
man, I've been doing this 28years, you need to be in the ER.
There's something I don't evenknow, man, like I've never seen
this shit.
And you know, I gotmisdiagnosed in the hospital.
I was in for five days.
I got a second opinion, largelydue to my wife, because she's a
(32:45):
RN, she's getting ready tofinish her nurse practitioner in
less than a couple of weeks andso she's really.
She was in the ER for 10 years.
She advocated for me and got asecond opinion.
They did a bone graft.
A week later, results came backthat I had advanced form of
chondrosarcoma or bone cancer,and I called them and they're
(33:07):
like I'm sure you have questions.
I'm like, yeah, am I going tofreaking die?
That's literally what I said.
You know I was like, yeah, Igot, I got some questions.
She's like, yeah, you're goingto have to have a lot of brutal,
called it a brutal and radicalsurgery.
They removed my femur that theyjust repaired with the bone
graft on my right leg.
It took out three quarters ofmy femur, my hip, my glute, my
quad and then in 22,.
(33:29):
That's when I decided to gethelp, though you know I should
say, uh, I wanted to be strongfor my stepson.
He's in the military, he's 11brava right now on his first
deployment.
He's a great kid and I justdidn't want to have this impact
relationships and I wanted toown it.
And it was weird because I wasstill suicidal and at the same
(33:50):
time I was like cancer ain'tgonna get me motherfucker,
motherfucker.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Now I if anybody's got to take me out, it's going
to be me.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah Right, it was like weird, I'm a control freak.
So I started putting work in.
I went to the VA.
You know uh, did VA traumarecovery group drug and alcohol
treatment.
I was high or drunk almostevery time, did nothing.
Did that for a year or two andthen I I reached out to
nonprofits but I didn't knowwhere to start.
I was like I don't know what'swrong with me, man, and it's
(34:20):
like I don't feel like it's.
It's moral injuries working fora company when my buddy died.
There's other ones, one.
I just don't talk about Ifinally did to a therapist.
I violated my moral code bigtime and it haunts me to this
day and uh, but I worked through.
(34:40):
I finally got to talk to two orthree people about it ever and
that that's what I I kind ofdetermined.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Moral injury is a huge fucking thing that people
still get hung up on and I'mtelling you from somebody that
has helped and been a peersupport resource for people like
there's a lot to be said abouthaving to do the job, but we
don't.
A lot of the shame that we packon and take on has to do with
(35:03):
moral injury.
Man, people need to understandlike we have to talk.
We have to find that source ofuh, of respite with somebody
that we trust, whether it's aprovider or somebody in your
life, somebody that you can goto and talk.
Man, the GWAT was not easy fora lot of us and it's okay to
have these things that you wantto unpack.
(35:24):
Don't take it to the grave,don't continue to suffer.
Get it out.
Man, like that's one of thehardest things that I still like
.
People are always like God, I'mfine, I didn't do anything in
combat, and then finally liketalk for a few more hours and
they're well actually.
Here's something I dealt with.
It's like fuck, dude, that'simpactful.
You know you don't need to becarrying that shit.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, and for the audience of people that uh tune
in is you know, a moral injuryis when you have more shame and
guilt.
It's shame and guilt based.
It's when you, if you have comefrom a, most people have a
moral code.
There there's a lot of degrees.
I have a very strict one andwhen you violate that and you
have that, you suffer with shameand guilt.
It's different than afear-based condition and it's
(36:08):
pretty crazy.
I didn't learn about that untilyears after I started putting
work in.
I was doing five nonprofits perday.
Five hours of my day consistedof, like, different nonprofit
work, different modalities Greatbook If you want to start your
journey understanding, uh, moralinjury.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Uh, I'll put a link to it in the episode description
Um, because we don't know what.
We don't know that we, like yousaid, like we, we, a lot of us
grow, and there's so manyAmericans out there that did
grow up with good parents andgood morals, good values, and
then they enlist and they gosomewhere, like Iraq during the
early years, the 2003s, 2004swhere a lot of shit was
(36:51):
happening that we don't reallytalk about, that we don't really
express.
We touched a little bit on itwith the Blackwater guys, but
how many of our conventionalMarines, infantry guys dealt
with something and they broughtback and it's just still locked
in with them, deeply shameful,deeply troublesome, because they
feel like they don't, they,they can't get it out, they
can't talk to somebody.
So if you're dealing with that,please.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think the I read an article once about the
absurdity of war and it wassuper interesting.
And when you, when you grow upwith those social cues and norms
, you know and value structure,and then you're thrust into an
impossible situation, likeyou're fixed with decisions that
you just can't reallyunderstand and you got to make a
(37:35):
decision on the spot life ordeath and you know, sometimes
those consequences get you laterin life.
You know cause they just uh,they kind of put a shadow on
your soul.
You know, like a imprint, andit gets a lot of people, you
know, and it's not always rightaway, you know, because we're
guarded.
When you go into thosepositions people are like man,
(37:57):
like you know, know, doing allthose deployments and stuff, and
, um, I know guys stilloperating today I don't even
know they might be on deploymentlike 35, and I'm like, holy cow
, you've been doing this forlike almost 30 years of combat,
like insane.
Now you're in syria and allthis stuff and i'm'm like, how
are you good?
Well, when they transition out,finally, it's going to be a
(38:21):
scary situation because you gotdealing with transition.
Then you have all the stuff,all the static, you know you
have moments of clarity, whereyou're by yourself.
And that's where I struggledwhen I sought out the most
chaotic jobs possible, like as aturnaround expert in defense or
even starting a nonprofit.
It was a ton of work, kept mybrain engaged, like focused, and
(38:45):
then at the end of the dayyou're just like you got time to
yourself.
It's terrifying, cause I'm likeI don't want to think about all
the damn shit I do.
So it's just interesting, youknow, and um, yeah, that's
that's why we got to advocate sohard for folks, because I
didn't know where to start.
So when I started BrothersKeeper Veterans Foundation, I
wanted an organization thatfills in that gap.
(39:06):
So we team up with hundreds ofpartners that do the best and
brightest of care, differentmodalities for different people,
and we take a whole whole bodyapproach.
So your background, your, youknow, it could be religion, your
ethnicity, your militaryexperiences everybody's so
different and there's a lot ofvariables.
(39:27):
So I would like, I want to findtreatment that resonates with
the individual, not trying toput a round peg in a square hole
.
And that's what you know.
There's all these differentverticals.
You got traditional cognitivebehavioral therapy, emdr and all
these different psychologicaltechniques to have people you
really just got to get to unpackwhat bothers you and that's the
(39:49):
goal.
But then there's psychedelicsand untraditional medicine 5meo,
dmt, Ibogaine therapy,ayahuasca, ketamine treatment,
celaganglion, blah, blah.
You go on and on.
They're kind of in a differentspace.
But when traditional medicinedoesn't work, we offer those
(40:10):
resources as well, because somepeople aren't willing.
They're like I've done 10 yearsof therapy or 15 years of
therapy it's done absolutelynothing for me.
Maybe it's the practitioner,maybe it's the approach, but
drug addicts love drugs.
So some of them kind of swingthat way and if it gives them a
little bit of reprieve wherethen they can go do the
traditional.
(40:30):
You know, whatever it takes toget to the goal.
But some people do one modalityand they're good.
And some people like myself Idid five years and I'm still
seeing people just to stayplugged in with the pressures of
you know, business and life andjust making sure I stay on the
proper track and be a goodsteward for the community.
And I don't, you know.
(40:51):
You know you're probablyfamiliar with Mike Day.
You know I speak about him.
Sometimes the Navy SEAL gotshot.
I don't remember I speak abouthim.
Sometimes he was a Navy SEAL,got shot.
I don't remember.
I should know this number.
It was like 20 something, 26times 11.
To the chest, what roomclearing against a high value
target walked out of the roomand his teammates were like what
(41:12):
?
And you know I don't know theins and outs with him as he
wasn't a friend of mine I justread about him and you know he
went on to support nonprofitwork and took his life maybe
about a year plus ago and Ican't ever let that happen
because it rocks so many people.
And no disrespect to that guy,he's you know just the stories
(41:36):
that I read.
I'm like wow, and I use that asan extreme example of like
things that you and I are doing.
What a stud, what a.
What a story.
Unfortunate career but insanewillpower and mindset and
warrior.
But for whatever reason, thedemons got to him, you know, and
that kept me plugged in becauseI, when I started the
(41:58):
organization four years ago, Iwas still highly suicidal and I
was like man, I can't do this toanother veteran.
You know, one suicide impacts135 people on their social
network and it really some otherpeople that are hanging on by a
thread might take their lives.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Absolutely that is.
That is a one, one metric thatwe need to be able to keep aware
.
If you, if you're in that spaceright now, I always tell people
, I urge you to stay in thefight the impact that it has on
your family, your kids,scientifically and it's been
proven 50% or something of ifyou commit suicide, 50% of your
(42:37):
children is likely to commitsuicide, something like that.
Yeah, and it's, it's like man,like I, I, I know it, I bet
there.
I just tell you guys, if you'rein this, if you're feeling it,
if it's this is your chapterthat we're talking about, I urge
you to stay, stay in this fight, reach out to your friends,
your family.
You have that network.
(42:57):
I know it's scary.
I didn't want to reach out tomy friends, but I found the two
friends that I could reach outto, the two friends I could talk
to.
Even if I didn't divulge that Iwas suicidal, I still talked to
Greg and Paul.
I reached out to them on adaily basis, sharing memes and
texting, because I needed tohave that connection.
I knew that I wasn't doing wellenough, but if I could just
laugh with two people that Itrusted and had a common bond
(43:21):
with, I knew that I could keeppushing forward.
So, lgops, man, little groupsof paratroopers, you can keep
each other alive.
You just have to keep treadingwater man.
Whatever analogy you need touse, use it, but stay in this
fight.
Keep reaching out to each otherand if you haven't talked to
your friends in a few days or afew months, reach out today.
In that text, in that simpletext message hey, do you hear
(43:43):
about the latest with Epstein?
Whatever it is to break the ice, just reach out.
There's plenty of thoseconversations to be had.
Exactly, I've told people moreoften than not, our dark veteran
humor has kept more peoplealive than anything and it's a
connective tissue, it's a bridgeto get you to have that
(44:03):
uncomfortable talk of hey man,haven't heard from you in a
while, are you okay?
I'm worried.
Yeah, man, I'm fine.
No, no, no, don't just leave itat that.
That's just the first littleengagement.
Keep digging.
All right, man, let's meet up.
Let's do something.
Let's play a video game online.
Let's watch a movie together.
Let's jump on Discord and watcha movie together.
(44:24):
Even more than ever, I know ourfriend groups get blown up and
people move and travel aroundthe world.
Find a way to connect.
I've been able to sit down andwatch movies with friends on
frigging on Riverside on Discord.
You can do it.
It's up to us.
No one's coming to save the day.
There's no QRF that's going tomagically knock at the door and
be like I'm here to save the day.
(44:44):
It doesn't happen.
What really happens is guyslike me, guys like Chris, we get
better.
When it's not about being 100%.
You just got to get to 70.
Fight to that 70 fuckingpercent.
Get to 70 and start helpingeverybody else out.
You didn't quit on a team.
You didn't quit on your platoon.
I'm asking you not to quittoday.
Just keep moving forward.
(45:05):
You don't have to build anonprofit.
I'd like for you to build anonprofit.
I'd like to get in the fight,because nothing's more
trustworthy than seeing anhonest broker, seeing a fellow
brother starting a nonprofit orbeing a leader within a
nonprofit, you know, just putsome good in the world.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
What I'm trying to champion is like getting the
fuck after it, no matter what'scoming your way.
Like you got to put the work inRight.
And I like to say there'sdifferent verticals in life
financial stability for you andyour family, your relationships
with your kids, your wife, yourgirlfriend, husband, whatever
boyfriend and then you get tophysical fitness.
(45:44):
I love people.
I'm like, hey, work out man tocarry your body.
Proper nutrition is reallyimportant.
You know, let's go RFK.
Like change, let's get poisonsout of our food.
That I mean.
How can you argue against that?
Like the government doesn'tneed to babysit us, you know.
But you know you don't have alot of selection on healthy food
.
But then the last, like there'smany other verticals, but like
spirituality is another one thatanchors people.
(46:06):
You know your religion, god,like tie into that.
I've been getting better.
I'm not the best, strongestChristian in the world.
I try.
I'm failed Christian but I workon it and the more work that
I'm doing I'm finding my peacethere.
But also mental health, man, itgets overlooked in the community
and I'm like I'm not trying todiscourage anybody.
Young warfighters, men, womenthat are going to join the
(46:29):
military.
First responders.
You know people, you know thatyou have a higher frequency of
trauma.
Deal with it as it comes andjust like you're working out, if
you have a traumatic event, youknow you lose your family in a
car wreck and you're in thevehicle, you're the sole
survivor, similar to themilitary.
Well, you gotta, you gotta getthrough that properly.
You can't just put walls up andthink you're going to be good
(46:51):
because they it's likemicro-terrorists, man.
They add up, it's a cumulativeeffect effect the death of a
thousand paper cuts if you don't.
So it's like deal with thingsas they come.
A lot of people have childhoodtrauma that I've been working
with could be physical orpsychological or sexual abuse.
As a kid I'd unpack that stuff,man, because then when you have
(47:13):
more trauma as an adult, youknow we're exposed with our
careers in the past toexceptional amounts of like
losing friends, being likesurvivor's guilt and this and
that and traumatic braininjuries.
It's the frequency that getsyou, you know, for some people.
And I just tell people, dealwith things as they come, man,
if you had that backgroundgrowing up, just it's not dude,
(47:34):
you're strong to deal with thisstuff.
You know, and like I told youbefore we started the podcast,
do I want to be known as thefreaking nut guy in the
community?
Not really, but if I have tochampion this, you know my
reputation means a lot to me.
I don't have time to make upfor it.
Being terminally ill, I couldbe dead in a week.
Maybe I get a couple of years,I get lucky.
(47:56):
I just want to have a goodreputation in the community.
It means a lot.
So to do this work it'sexceptionally hard for me
because I find myself to be awarrior.
I don't want to be.
I'm not crying about my pastexperiences or anything.
I would do it all over again.
I'd be a little smarter.
But I just want people to youknow, deal with these things as
they come.
If you're a young warfighter,you know, deal with these things
(48:19):
as they come.
If you're a young warfighter,use your mind as a weapon and
hone those skills you know anddeal.
You know you can stay and getback in the fight.
You know.
But you got to take a minute togive yourself some grace once
in a while and work, you know,on that, on that skillset and
vertical.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Absolutely man.
And then the faith.
The faith part is the what Ialways say's like.
It's oftentimes the last oneand I'm grateful that I found my
way back to my faith.
I think everything happens fora reason.
But explore that, Be willing toexplore that.
And there's no such thing as aperfect Christian, perfect
Catholic.
We're all just trying to do ourbest each and every day, Like
(48:54):
if you can get your rosary in,good, If you can get two in,
even better.
But if you forget, if you don'tget a chance to do it, go to
sleep.
But before you do that, do atleast one Hail Mary.
Whatever you can do, Likethere's nobody perfect in this
world, the fact that you've cometo it, the fact that you found
it, that's a testament.
That's what God ultimatelywants from us to get better, one
(49:15):
day at a time, best footforward and man like.
It's up to us to find that faith.
Whatever it is for you,listening at home, whatever it
is, explore it, be willing to doit.
We're warriors for a reason.
We're not just warriors whilewe're in it.
It matters more now than everon the outside, building that
family, being a good steward andcontinuing to help others.
(49:36):
That's the greatest thing wecould ultimately do in this
world being of service to othersand helping somebody get better
, and what you're doing withyour foundation, Chris, is
exactly that.
There's no saints, it's justguys that are doing 70% better
or 65% better and trying to getthe other guys there, and that's
something that we need more ofas we begin to close it down,
(49:57):
like how can we get in touchwith you, how can we get
involved with your foundation?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, kind of the call for action is.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent nonprofits out there
and we're aligned with some ofthe best in my opinion, which is
great, right.
But the call for action forpeople that want to get involved
.
You can volunteer, you know,with our organization.
You can donate, you can attendour events.
You can simply spread the wordon social media so you can find
(50:23):
us at bkvforg it's BrothersKeeper Veterans Foundation, not
my Brothers Keeper Some peoplehave been saying that but yeah,
bkvforg, if you need help, youcan go to get help.
There's a dropdown, a socialwork.
Reach out with you in just afew hours and they'll put an
action plan together for care.
And you know we have two eventscoming up right now.
(50:46):
We just finished, we closedabout five events in the last 30
days, which is a grind.
We have over a hundred veteransin our care, which I'm proud to
say right now in this month.
So those things, everything'spredicated by resource.
We need people to kind of.
Financial support is number one.
And we have a gala coming up inNashville, tennessee, at the
City Winery from 6 to 10 pm onSaturday 13th of September.
(51:08):
We also are looking for runners, anybody who likes to suffer
and do dumb things and runmarathons.
All you marathon runners, we'responsoring the Marine Corps
Marathon.
We've got 15 runners.
We need another 10 to fill up,but that's on October 26th, I
think it's in DC.
Go to our website for moreinformation.
Sorry, and those are the nexttwo big ones that are coming up,
(51:31):
and so any support.
You know, just following us onsocial media is cool.
We just had a guy named MattRogers, country music artist.
He performed a song for a localveteran here in Georgia that
committed suicide, commandSergeant Major Corey Moore, and
he was a friend with him,reached out and I know I'm
friends with, actually, ourclinical psychologist.
(51:52):
Her husband was good friendswith him and he called me the
day that he died here in Georgia.
Good friends with him, and hecalled me the day that he died
here in Georgia.
And this guy, matt Rogers,great dude, just did a tribute
concert on Broadway forNashville.
He wrote a song calledCamouflage.
You can go on Spotify costs younothing, just download the song
.
And he's giving us royalties toBKBF for a certain amount of
(52:13):
downloads.
He'll.
You know he gives us all theroyalties, so that's cool too
and it supports his.
You know he's a, he's a patriotand he wanted to do something
for the veteran community, eventhough he's not a veteran, and
love that guy and that's anotherway you got everyone can
support.
Sorry to blow it up, but hey,I'll take it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
That's what we do here.
We support great causes, greatorganizations.
So, yeah, this is a hundredpercent what I love to do being
able to put a spotlight on greatnonprofits that are helping our
great veterans, because wedeserve it.
So many people have doneamazing things in the past 20
years of war and it's up to ournonprofit space, our leaders
(52:53):
like yourself and every veteran,to dive in and help out where
we can.
And if that's downloading asong on Spotify, go to the
episode description, download itand you'll see a link right
here.
There you go, make my videoeditor do some work, lazy
bastard.
But man, chris, it's been apleasure having you on, brother,
I know you're in the fightevery single day and I'm
selfishly.
We're going to pray and add youto the list that we get 10, 15
(53:17):
years more of you, because thework is there, man, we need you,
I'm ready for anything, thelast thing I'll say is I'm
drinking out of this coffee cup,which made me think of the
people.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Unfortunately, I got this in San Antonio when we went
to Warriors Heart about a monthago and you know thoughts and
prayers to those.
You know I don't know when thisairs, but you know, obviously,
the tragedies and tragic lossesout in Texas.
Man, shout out to all the firstresponders and people.
You know I feel really bad forthose guys.
I wish I was closer because Iwould love to volunteer some
(53:48):
time with this cripple to dowhatever I could to support.
So you know, shout out to allthe Texans that are going
through some tough times.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, Texas Hill Country needs everybody, and
there's a good amount of peopleout there right now doing a lot
of work.
So hats off to you guys thatare out there actively helping
our Texas Hill Country folks.
Man and yeah and again, Chris,thank you so much for what
you're doing.
Thank you all for tuning in andplease do me a favor, Take care
of each other and we'll see youall next time.
(54:18):
Until then, take care,Appreciate it.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom,
forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
Connect with us on Instagram Xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
You can also visitsecurityhallcom for exclusive
(54:40):
content, resources and updates.
And remember we get throughthis together.
If you're still listening, theepisode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
Thank you.
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go.
The only podcast that'spurpose-built from the ground up
to support you Not just you,but the wider audience,
everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent, it's hosted by me,Danny Caballero, Chris Gathers
(00:26):
how's it going, brother?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good man, humble and honored to do the show with you
today.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Man Appreciate it Incredibly honored to have you
here, man.
I always tell guys I was in thesame mindset at one point.
Everything, all hope was lost.
I was in a bad place.
Shout out to Laurel Ridge Again.
When you're in those placeswhere they take your shoelaces
and you have to start fromfucking the very bottom, you
don't see a lot of hope forwhere you're going to get you
know next few years in your life.
(00:53):
You think like, oh fuck, likehow am I going to recover from
this?
But when we see otherindividuals just like us, with
that same lived experience thatbeen through arduous things and
they're on the backs of the, onthat next part of their journey,
they're running, they're doingbetter and you see them leading
nonprofit organizations andbringing others back from the
void, that gives us hope that wecan someday turn everything
(01:13):
that we've gone through into apositive.
So today, my man, I want todive into your life, your
journey, your nonprofit and howyou continue to give back on a
day-to-day basis while you'restill going through some
difficult challenges.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, happy to talk about it, man.
You lead the dance and I'llfollow your lead.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely man.
So let's take it back to thevery beginning of this journey.
A young Chris decides that he'sgoing to enlist.
And how did you become a GreenBeret man?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's a great question .
You know that was one of the Iyou know I often talk about my
background grew up near, uh,philadelphia uh, I say philly,
but I was really in the, thesuburbs, you know, and while I I
my, I got, I was, grew up andwas raised by my father who was
in the military in the early 60s.
He volunteered, like during theVietnam era, was didn't go to
(02:06):
Vietnam, thankfully, cause Iprobably wouldn't have been born
, but he always talked about hismilitary service and he went to
Germany, thankfully, instead ofVietnam, in 60 to 64.
And he just had an amazing time, man.
Then he went into lawenforcement, first canine in our
in the borough where I grew up,and then was a sheriff for over
20 years, so like 40 years ofjust, you know, from a military
(02:28):
police officer.
So my parents split up and Igrew up with him grading
athletics, but I was always in abit of trouble getting arrested
.
I was a good kid, good heart,but uh, I I think the divorce at
six.
You know I never grew up withmy siblings and it, just, it
just had this profound impact.
I had this chip on my shoulderman and really loves athletics.
(02:52):
That's what kept me grounded,just getting my energy, my
negative energy out.
So from like seven years oldall the way through, even now I
still I try to train, you know,as best I can.
So sports was like huge for megrowing up.
It kept me in school to beeligible and, uh, academically
didn't perform, had scholarshipopportunities for running.
(03:13):
I was a really uh kind of a,not a natural runner, but it was
kind of like pre Fontaine who,uh, you know an early or early
distance runner in the mile.
It was like a head game thatyou had to play, not quitting,
and I think that kind of helpedset me up a little bit.
You know, I joined the militaryright out of high school because
(03:34):
I didn't see a good future formyself in college or work.
So my dad gave me that optionand I went and signed up for six
years right off the bat.
So my dad gave me that optionand I went and signed up for six
years right off the bat.
And then you know, when I wentin I wasn't a combat MOS, which
(03:59):
I, you know I love to say it'smy I got screwed by a recruiter
story because I did.
You know, I was like troubledyouth going down to MEPS and I'm
like I want to be airbornerangers, absolutely Sign this.
So I didn't even know what MOSreally like, cause I was like 68
x-ray, what the hell is that?
I didn't know.
So I got, I got through bootcamp, you know, through basic, and
that's when I kind of reallyfigured out like my dumb ass
figured out that I wasn't goingto be an airborne ranger.
I was going into work on Apacheaircraft and I was like that's,
(04:21):
that's pretty far away fromwhat I wanted to do, wait a
second.
So anyway, I tried out, youknow, and I was in Germany at
the time.
You know I did a year in Korea,went to Germany and a unit
deployed and you know, I wantedto go to ranger school.
Couldn't go to ranger school,wasn't combat MLS.
So I ended up going the.
You know, they said you can goto selection and I was like, of
(04:45):
course nobody in my unit gave meany heads up because nobody was
SF and I said man, that'sreally cool, man, like I really
want to see if I can make it andI wanted to serve at a higher
capacity and do the mostchallenging things.
I don't know why, what drove meto that?
It was just I wanted to checkto see what I was made of, you
know, because I thought I was atough kid and physically I had
some you know good gifts, butmentally I was just headstrong.
(05:08):
I knew I'd never quit, you know, that's all they told me.
If you don't quit, you got areally high success rate, you
know.
But I was like I'm dumb as abox of rocks and I was not
adequately prepared.
I didn't have an infantrybackground.
I always talk about thatbecause I noticed all these guys
(05:31):
that were Ranger qualified orfrom Battalion or Levin Bravo,
and here I show up with likeaviation wings on my uniform and
I was real young man.
I was like I went to selection95 back in the Stone Age and you
know I made it through my firstgo and you know I lost about 25
pounds that I didn't have togive and then that kind of set
me off, you know, like um.
Then I had to go to the nextevolution, as you know, going
(05:51):
through the special forces Qcourse, which was challenging
for me.
Land navigation really kickedmy butt because I didn't have
any background, never did itbefore, you know.
So, uh, you know I had somechallenges there and uh, I was
an 18 Bravo, a special force andweapon sergeant, hell yeah, and
I wanted to be a medic.
They said I was too dumb and uh, same, fair enough, same.
(06:12):
And then I started seeing whatthese guys went through and how
much longer the training was.
And, you know, you actually hadto like, really think, and I
was like I'm a nug 18 Bravo,brother, let's go.
So that's how I got in, man, Ijust uh, really enjoyed it, man.
I went the third group and I wasthe fucking new guy, super
(06:33):
young, unexperienced.
I went through selection as acorporal and I showed up.
I just got my E five.
So I'd never seen it.
There's a looking around,there's like.
You know, I got my E6 prettyquick, you know, but I was like
I'm the only E5 in group, likewhat the hell.
It seemed like it, you know.
So it was challenging becausewe had all these experienced
(06:53):
guys, man, and you know I wastrying to latch on to mentors,
you know, and my team sergeantwas really good and he was old
school and did a coupledeployments and you know, I was
up for my third re-enlistmentand then I transitioned out,
which I later regretted becausethe timing couldn't have been
worse.
You know, 9-11 occurred when Iwas in college and that's when I
(07:14):
, yeah, I called my team,starting up straight away.
Man, it was like probably theend of that first day on 9-11.
And he's like, man, it'sprobably going to be over before
you get back in, bro, likeGrenada, the first Panama, the
first Gulf war.
And no, it wasn't.
And so I went the agency route.
(07:34):
You know, I got recruited um todo GRS.
A buddy of mine gave me anopportunity, said hey, they're
looking to recruit some dudes.
Are you willing to go to Iraq?
I said hell, yeah, bro.
And uh, I did that as acontractor for several years.
Um did about 10 deploymentswith those guys, which was I
worked with some awesome dudes,man, I really enjoyed the time.
(07:55):
It was like the wild West manand, uh, some of the most best
memories that I've got, you know, um it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I was just talking to my, my buddy shout out to you
uh, gaither.
Uh, we remember those guys.
Uh, I was a young paratrooperin the second of the five, oh
fourth, in uh 2007, 2008.
And seeing your guys, uh, youjust just like green berets man,
you, you guys just always looklike you were just the top of
(08:25):
the top, the coolest dudes goingthrough and I was just like
that that you didn't know whothey were, you didn't know what
they were doing.
But I'm like they're, they'rebadasses completely.
Whatever, whatever it is thatthey're doing, they're fucking
crushing it out there, just likeon the same level as being in
an ODA.
(08:47):
And I think many of us had thoselike moments in Iraq where you
saw those those GRS guys andyou're just like, oh shit, man,
like what does it take to be oneof those guys?
Like, cause, I mean, I had, Ihad no idea about that world and
everybody just looks somysterious and we would always
just assume and make up thewildest stories about what it
took to be one of thoseoperators.
And the guys just like the mostoutlandish stories that here
they only get the finest greenberets.
(09:08):
You have to get by name,recruited to do that job.
What was that mission like inthose early years of GWAT man?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, it was really interesting because, as I
reflect back now, I look at guysthat most of my friends are
like.
A lot of them are retired groupguys, right, and I'm hanging
out with through the nonprofit,with all these legends.
You know, at least from myperspective, I look up to these
guys because they had storiedcareers and they stuck with one
element right when Itransitioned, and I don't regret
(09:37):
it.
But at the same time I'm like Iwonder.
I always think like what wouldthat have looked like for me,
like what I've been able causewhen I really matured more in my
thirties, when I was with GRS,and so I knew nothing about it.
Man, same thing.
I had all this.
I'm like, ooh, working for adifferent, you know area code,
yeah, and you know it was kindof like you just showed up and
(10:02):
you had to go through all thevetting like shooting, driving,
physical fitness and you know,to kind of get through.
They were trying to get mostguys were coming from the SEAL
teams or had militarybackgrounds like SF, and so that
was cool, but we all haddifferent backgrounds.
So you know, our backgrounds,with room clearing and things
(10:24):
like that, were just different,but we didn't know that until we
got thrown into the, into thefray.
So I went through all that.
You know it took.
It took took some time and itworked out.
Where I went into Iraq in 03,just at the trail end of the
invasion, it was just likewinding down and we were the.
I was part of the first 10 guysthat stood the program up as a
(10:47):
you know uh contractor.
So we nobody knew what wasgoing to go on.
You know, like there were someold school guys but they never
went into combat.
They were working in differentyou know environments.
So everybody, when we flew in,what was wild is we flew over
with armored vehicles.
We were driving soft-skinnedvehicles with no maps, which was
(11:07):
wild because there was no data.
We had garments and shit likeold school GPSs and Falcon View
and all this stuff, but theywere.
You know, post-war everythingchanged.
You're driving down the roadone day it's free and clear, the
next day there's a wall in themiddle of the road and you're
like what?
So it was really treacherous,you know.
(11:28):
So the first year wasn't bad.
But I just remember thetailgate coming down on the
aircraft and I'm driving thearmored vehicle out and you just
get blasted with the heat andyou look and everything looks
foreign.
Right, and I, you know, I wasin Africa.
I was in North Africa, whichwas wild in group, but it was so
different and we had no AC, soI was driving with no weapons,
(11:48):
no body armor, didn't know wherewe were going to our new
headquarters at Biop, which wasBaghdad International Airport.
We had positioned ourself inthis like fishbowl thing and you
know, it was kind of likearchaic and I loved it because I
(12:11):
see, I assume the worst, likewe're sleeping on the floor, no
AC, bottled water.
You know the deal, yeah, and itwas kind of like that.
But eventually we got trailers,which was nice Cause we had AC,
and I was like, thank God, dude, cause it was like 130 degrees.
When I got the like at least120, not including the heat
index, it was the hottest placeI've ever been.
I worked in the Sahara.
So anyway, like when we gotthere the first year in 03 was,
(12:31):
you know, we're on the roadevery day doing one or two ops
familiarization, like fams wereout, doing like road
reconnaissance for ops,protecting, uh, the U?
S assets, you know.
You know I like to say I waslike, yeah, you guys protected.
Jason Bourne, you know thosethat first year I mean we were,
(12:53):
we sometimes we were going to gofrom one part to get out of
where we lived.
We had to drive down RouteIrish, which was the most
dangerous road in the world atthe time.
A lot of IEDs just going towork, just going to go do an op.
You're driving down, like youknow, they called it ambush
alley for a reason and not muchreally happened.
(13:14):
You know we were conductingoperations and we were doing
things.
Sometimes that we were itwasn't.
Our job was to protect ourprincipal and keep them alive
and not really engage.
You know, unless reallynecessary, if you get hit up and
you lose a vehicle, you got tofight your way out.
But and that's happened a fewtimes, uh with us and, but in 04
, like right in the fall of 03,going into 04, prior to Fallujah
(13:38):
, I was there during that timetoo.
I came back, just really fromthe summer of 03 through the
winter to December, went homefor Christmas, came back and it
was like a whole nother fuckingdynamic.
We started getting armor, whichsaved my life several freaking
times, because these werecommercial armored vehicles and
they were just procuringwhatever was available to keep
(13:59):
us safe, right and ourprinciples and we a lot of my
teammates, including myself, youknow we got shot up several
times.
One of one of the guys got shot.
I think they put like 250rounds on the vehicle, jeez, and
I'm just like thank God forarmor, bro, cause you guys would
all been dead.
You know dudes are on the roofshooting through, trying to
shoot through, and they did.
(14:20):
You know it's like you got toget out and fight, but it was
like the wild west, oh three andoh four.
And uh, you know, I had, I hadbeers with the Blackwater guys
that got killed in Fallujah,right before Fallujah kicked off
, and I didn't know the guyspersonally.
Um, and we're like, you guysare driving a semi down there by
(14:42):
doing what?
Now I was like bro, it's reallyfucking dangerous man, we've
been here for, like you know,eight, nine months and just
getting there is going to befucking crazy.
And they got shrunk up, rippedout of their vehicles, killed,
stripped naked, hung up on thebridge.
I watched this unfold on CNN atthe time and I got so pissed
off, dude, that's when it reallyhit me that, like you know,
(15:06):
this shit's for real.
And but you know, from there I,it was kind of like McHale's
Navy man.
We were getting out gun carryinglike, uh, our m4s.
You know we had sometimes we goa little viz.
We called it this is not pc buthajit up.
You know makeup, you know thewhole nine and you know velcro
(15:29):
so you could get to your kitquick just to keep a low profile
, you know.
But the vehicle platforms wewere driving were sticking out
like a turd in a punch bowl, youknow.
So, bourbons, yes, let's takethese.
I was in.
I got blown up in a g wagon, um,on cadizia.
Uh, because it was a 450thousand dollar armored vehicle,
that this, there wasn't anyother d5s or we even had an h2
(15:52):
hummer that was silver, anddriving down cadizia in a
freaking humvee, like I'm like,come on, like these things are.
That's why we're getting blownup.
We.
We're like these are Americansand they're important.
They got a freaking BMW 7Series or whatever, and so I
would have rather have driven inunarmored vehicles at the time.
(16:16):
To be honest with you, becauseyou're less likely to get
engaged if you blend and you'redriving slow with traffic and
you know you're a trade craft,you have low visibility.
That's the smart play back then, but we didn't always have that
ability and um, so it was thewild West man and, uh, you know,
when it started like the bigarmy came in and they wouldn't
(16:38):
leave their bases.
You know and no disrespect toall the service members, I have
no disrespect, you know but wewere on the road every day and a
sergeant major I was comingback from an op it was like my
third op in the day and he waslike, slow down, he's wearing a
road guard vest and they putspeed bumps up by our compound.
So we were at Camp Slayer,there was a compound within a
compound.
So we were at camp slayer,there was a compound within a
(16:58):
compound where we wereheadquartered, and I might have
given him the finger and toldhim to fuck off, which it got
back to the highest level andthey came back.
You know, I don't know if it waslike general level, but they
were like, hey, some of yourwild guys, some dude with the
fucking crazy beard, justflipped off a sergeant major of
(17:19):
the fucking you know the baseand I was like, yeah, it was me,
my bad.
Uh, I was like there's no speedlimits in iraq, man, yeah, but
from there I went to afghanistanbecause I, you know, when the
speed bumps came up I was like,hey, man, I'm used to the wild
west where we can just be, let'sjust accomplish the mission,
whatever it takes, kind of likethat SF mindset, and you know, I
(17:42):
want to be safe and, you know,respectful, except for that one
time.
And uh, I was like man, I wantto try out Afghanistan because I
want to know, I want toexperience like the differences
in both sides.
Yeah, yeah.
And that was, you know, bothsides, yeah, yeah, and that was,
(18:03):
you know, less dangerous for mepersonally.
I know a lot of dudes wouldprobably argue the point, but,
um, I didn't get blown up andshot up a lot over in
afghanistan I did a coupledeployments and out of kabul and
um, it was just, it wasdifferent, you know, because it
was like mountainous cold.
I, I like that.
I prefer the cold over the heat, man.
And then I went to Israel, youknow, spent a lot of time in
(18:27):
Palestine.
I spent about a year there.
You know, 90 day trips back toback and I'd go home for two
weeks and punch back out and, uh, I just enjoyed it, man,
because the guys I work with weactually have a reunion coming
up, uh, in a month and I stillkeep it, keep tabs with these
guys, you know, and they're alljust amazing people.
(18:49):
You know different backgroundsand some of these guys went on
like the Benghazi.
You know they were some of mycoworkers.
I wasn't friends with thosedudes, but I was really good
friends with one guy that, uh,that was there and he performed,
just, you know, it was out ofout of the world his experience,
fighting back in and fightingback out and staying there for a
(19:11):
very long time, which isn't inthe movie.
And I just respect the fuck outof these guys, man, because you
know, the know, the real humanspirit was what I'm about.
You know, in combat you reallybond with these, as you know.
Because the real you can talkall the mad shit in the world.
And the real you comes out whenyou're under constant stress
(19:34):
and pressure and whether you'rea fighter or a flighter and
whether you're a fighter or aflighter and even with my
experience now with you know,dealing with a terminal illness,
I can't fight anymore like Iused to.
Like I had to give up jujitsuand MMA for training.
I just loved the camaraderie ofthat and rolling with 25 year
old studs when I'm in my midforties.
(19:55):
You know, I just loved it, dude, and it was kind of similar to
the teams.
The real you comes out whenyou're getting suffocated and
strangled by 150 pound guy, whenI'm 215 or 220 and you know,
way stronger and athletic.
It's humbling.
That's what I'm about, like.
I want to show, demonstrate myhuman spirit now being
(20:18):
terminally ill, through myactions, right, not just my
words.
I want to demonstrate anddemonstrate my human spirit now
being terminally ill.
Through my actions right, notjust my words.
I want to demonstrate that tillI can no longer do it and be a
good example of the humancondition and spirit.
And it's tough at times, youknow, but I just love that
warrior mindset man, it's partof my DNA.
I'd like to think, you know, andI often say, most of my friends
have done way cooler shit thanI ever did and I don't like to
(20:41):
compare myself to them.
You know they had differentpaths in lives.
You know some of them come outunscathed mentally.
My combat stuff didn't botherme, but I had some other, you
know, issues and so now I justadvocate for veterans that are
suffering with mental healthissues TBIs, because I've had
(21:02):
multiple TBIs which impacts you,just like PTS or physical
limitations, and I just want toget the word out there, raise
awareness and destigmatizeveterans' mental health and
actually do something about itand save lives.
And it's given me profoundpurpose in life to be able to do
this and I'm just honored to beable to do that for the
(21:22):
community that I came from.
And you know it's hard work.
I don't get paid from ourfoundation.
I chose to do that because Ididn't.
I never trusted nonprofits whenI was suffering because of some
missteps by one or two peopleand I really want the community
to know nonprofits.
There are really good nonprofitsout there that you can turn to
(21:43):
when the when the VA isn'tworking for them you know, yeah,
no, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And I think you know.
Something that I want to diveinto now is a lot of times when
um I compare it to a NASCAR oran F1 car that's doing laps,
when you're still in the teamroom, when you's doing laps when
you're still in the team room,when you're still operating,
when you're still doing the job,it's easy to not pay attention
to your body or any issues.
And then, for a lot of guys,when they transition, when that
(22:11):
definitive end to that careercomes, that's when a lot of
crisis and a lot of issues comeup.
When you were going throughyour journey your, you know,
your, your journey when didthings start falling apart for
you?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, it was really around.
I had this.
Really.
I got hit with a lot of factorsin life at one time and you
know I just transitioned out,which is super hard for a lot of
us, right?
My, when I, when I left group,I went, my team started and sent
me to the recruiter.
I was up for my thirdreenlistment.
They're like you sure you don'twant to reenlist?
I'm like, yeah, I'm sure.
(22:45):
Kinda, you were like all right,brother, have a good day.
Literally, that was what myexperience was, and I know they
do things better now.
Right, Of course.
But because so many guys suffertrying to, you know you go from
that environment everything'slife or death situations and
then you go work at home Depotfor 18 bucks an hour, working
for a 20 year old, and it's a.
(23:06):
It's a.
It's just weird.
Man Like you, don't?
You think you have nothing andat least from my experiences, I
was like man, I don't haveanything in common with anybody,
Like my background is thisweird?
And you know, went to college,went to pa school because I was
too stupid to be a medic, I wasgoing to prove him wrong.
And then, you know, when Itransitioned out, I went into
(23:27):
the fence, worked for an armoredvehicle company which gave me a
little bit good purpose.
But my buddy was in seal teamthree who was my partner.
We worked so man trying asNeanderthals, trying to build an
armored vehicle business withjust a handful of Neanderthals
and provide life-savingequipment.
It was so challenging and a lotof pressure because I knew
(23:48):
these products had to be goodbecause if not these guys will
die, you know, and I don't wantthat on my conscience.
So that was a lot of pressure.
And then I had to get mybusiness degree while working 16
hour days and we sold thecompany in about four years to a
private equity firm.
And about a week later my buddy,John, passed away in Jordan.
(24:11):
He was at SOFETS, which is likea special forces exhibition,
really big defense show and hewas surrounded by guys.
Like we had our businessdevelopment guy, we had a
commander for SEAL Team 6.
We had another guy for theagency.
So my transition was easierbecause I was working with
like-minded people.
So it wasn't as difficult aswhat most veterans go through.
(24:34):
But I started getting anxiety alittle bit being around people
and I can't really explain it,but I didn't want to be around
Like when we were selling thecompany.
I was nervous all the time, LikeI felt like an imposter you
know like now I'm a business guyand I look like a criminal.
We had $3 million lifeinsurance policies and we had to
(25:02):
pick his body up in a suburbanwith his father my best friend,
ron, who was a Green Beret andworked for the same group.
I did OGA.
We picked his body up.
His dad wanted to open thecasket.
He fell 40 feet and then he wasmy next door neighbor as well.
I had a 6,500 square foot houseon a lake, doing great
financially, invested all mymoney from contracting into
property and real estate, had 12properties.
Everyone looked at me like yourlife is so great, you know, you
(25:24):
got all this, all these things,and when he died, it's just
none of that mattered because hewas getting ready to retire.
He had two daughters and hiswife was nine months pregnant
and I had.
When I got the call at three inthe morning because of the time
change, I called my buddy Ron.
He came over to my house.
We had the plan how are wegoing to drop the news to his
(25:44):
widow now?
And she was nine monthsfreaking pregnant dude.
And it was the hardest.
One of the hardest things in mylife that I've ever done was
knocking, making that knock andas soon as she made eye contact,
at 6 am, coming out of theshower in a robe with a towel on
her head or whatever, she madethis whale.
You know.
His daughters answered the door.
Who?
There were seven and five, andI spent a lot of time with him
(26:09):
just through work, being in iraqtogether.
He always had my back.
We're driving in sadar city 10000 strong and it's just him and
I.
You and I hit somebody with acar at a checkpoint.
I'm like oh shit and uh.
They ended up keeping his lifeinsurance policy.
Eight months later.
I had enough.
I said what are you guys goingto do?
(26:30):
You said you're going to takecare of this and they said tell,
tell his widow to sue us.
So I resigned on the spot.
I had no job.
I went through, you know, thefuneral.
I had his urn by my bed and hispictures because his wife
struggled with it,understandably, and I was
dealing with the family tryingto support them.
I was a little absent with myex-wife.
(26:51):
She filed for divorce literallyon the one year anniversary.
So the story is yes.
What happened?
It was like a series offreaking, insane things, like
knocking on the door, my buddy'sdead, you know, at 32 years old
.
We just sold a company, nevergot to celebrate.
The private equity group saidtell, tell his wife to sue us.
(27:12):
I resigned, had no job, no wife, no friend in this big house,
and then I started drinking.
I really started gettingwithdrawing from society.
You know, I just work out.
I got down to like 170 poundsworking with, like doing MMA
workouts, like two, three a days, trying to combat my anxiety.
I was sweating all the time.
I never slept for two years.
(27:33):
I was on Ambien, doing weirdthings and I couldn't go.
I went to my primary care doctorbecause I was getting I was
suicidal then and the you knowwhen anxiety, depression,
ideation, I go to him, I'memotional.
I didn't want to tell him I wassuicidal because I was worried
they're going to Baker, act meand take my clearance.
(27:54):
I had a TS, sci and I use thatfor work to go.
I had to go get another job.
I had all this financialpressure, all these things.
My wife left me, um, withoutany heads up and went back to DC
.
So I was like Holy, holy crapman.
So I just started drinking, Istarted doing pills, doing
(28:15):
Ambien was on, all the things Iwanted to numb.
The static was 24, seven and Ijust was trying not to kill
myself.
That's all I thought about wasthis, you know.
So I finally, um decided tocommit suicide in 2011.
And I don't know what month itwas, cause I was so on so many
substances.
(28:35):
And, um, I put plastic up in mybathroom, tacked it up.
I was gonna.
I was a suicidal, aconscientious suicidal guy and I
didn't even go.
I was on my couch and I had mypistols.
Like 10 AM, had my Glock out, Iwas already hammered and my I
literally had a gun in my handgetting ready to fucking shoot
(28:55):
myself.
Hope you don't get flagged forthis and demonetized.
You know I get a knock on mydoor as my buddy Ron.
He flew all the way from Tulsa,oklahoma I live in South
Carolina.
He happened.
Someone told him hey, yourboy's in a bad state.
And he just had this feelingand we didn't talk about this
till two, two years ago.
Why'd you show up?
(29:15):
You know, my CFO, who lived inmy neighborhood, called him and
said hey, man, he's shrinkinghis face off.
It's not good.
So if it wasn't for my buddyRon, I wouldn't be here today.
He knocked on my door and I waslike, should I shoot?
I didn't want to shoot myselfbecause I was worried it was my
buddy's widow and I didn't wantto put more stress on her.
I was like, even though I justwanted an out, so bad dude.
(29:43):
And so when he knocked on thedoor I went to get it and he
goes.
I said what are you?
I was like in a haze.
You know what are you doinghere.
You live in Tulsa, you got fourkids.
You got a job, like you know,running a nonprofit for a
Christian day camp man Like yougot all these obligations and
he's like you look like shit.
And I go, I feel like shit.
He goes, get dressed.
I said where are we going?
He's like the bar.
I'm like where are we going?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Like where the heart is but, he wasted dude.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
He's like he didn't know what to do.
Man, that's what we did.
We used to drink a lot,remember it was a blur, and
until he was confident, for nowI was good.
But I struggled with that.
I went on to run US armoredvehicle business for a company
(30:31):
in South Carolina for five years, got reloaded to where I live
in Georgia and through all thoseexperiences having panic
attacks I didn't want to go towork.
I'd just go to work, go to thegym.
That was my outlet.
Still to this day.
It keeps me.
You know, I tell people myvanity keeps my sanity, because
if I never worked out and I gotfat, oh I would be the biggest
(30:53):
drug addict on the planet.
Man, I just didn't want to bethat guy, you know.
I wanted to be fit, so nobody.
I masked all my symptoms reallywell.
I hid it from everybody as bestI could and I was drinking
every night like half a fifth,sometimes to a fifth, and um, as
a serious habit it was.
It was.
It was bad man and, like I metmy wife, my wife, uh Jen is
(31:16):
amazing man.
I met her in uh 10 years ago.
I rented her wife.
My wife Jen is amazing man.
I met her 10 years ago.
I rented her house.
I sold my house after threeyears, just wanted to work, had
a dog, Kept me plugged in.
I didn't want him to eat me.
If I shot myself Like it's weird, right, but all the little
things make big differences.
So, long story short, you knowI got married to my wife Jen.
(31:37):
She's just been in my corner.
You know she knew I wasdrinking and stuff, but I didn't
try not to make it impact ourrelationship, which it of course
, did.
You know I was really easilyagitated.
I'd get really hot, really fast, aggressive, and then I
eventually got emotional, like Iwas like dude, what is going on
with me?
So when in 2019, I wasdiagnosed with uh, I was.
(32:00):
I did five more years of privatesecurity for celebrities and I
came back from Italy with aclient and I had some pain in my
hip.
I thought I tore my hip injujitsu like a labrum tear or
something from all the you knowabuse, blown, both knees out
broken, dislocated my shoulder,and I just still kept rolling.
I got an MRI because I'm like.
(32:24):
I told my wife, I'm like, ah, Ijust want to, this is probably
a sports injury.
And they called me, probably in30 minutes, and they said, hey,
man, I've been doing this 28years, you need to be in the ER.
There's something I don't evenknow, man, like I've never seen
this shit.
And you know, I gotmisdiagnosed in the hospital.
I was in for five days.
I got a second opinion, largelydue to my wife, because she's a
(32:45):
RN, she's getting ready tofinish her nurse practitioner in
less than a couple of weeks andso she's really.
She was in the ER for 10 years.
She advocated for me and got asecond opinion.
They did a bone graft.
A week later, results came backthat I had advanced form of
chondrosarcoma or bone cancer,and I called them and they're
(33:07):
like I'm sure you have questions.
I'm like, yeah, am I going tofreaking die?
That's literally what I said.
You know I was like, yeah, Igot, I got some questions.
She's like, yeah, you're goingto have to have a lot of brutal,
called it a brutal and radicalsurgery.
They removed my femur that theyjust repaired with the bone
graft on my right leg.
It took out three quarters ofmy femur, my hip, my glute, my
quad and then in 22,.
(33:29):
That's when I decided to gethelp, though you know I should
say, uh, I wanted to be strongfor my stepson.
He's in the military, he's 11brava right now on his first
deployment.
He's a great kid and I justdidn't want to have this impact
relationships and I wanted toown it.
And it was weird because I wasstill suicidal and at the same
(33:50):
time I was like cancer ain'tgonna get me motherfucker,
motherfucker.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Now I if anybody's got to take me out, it's going
to be me.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah Right, it was like weird, I'm a control freak.
So I started putting work in.
I went to the VA.
You know uh, did VA traumarecovery group drug and alcohol
treatment.
I was high or drunk almostevery time, did nothing.
Did that for a year or two andthen I I reached out to
nonprofits but I didn't knowwhere to start.
I was like I don't know what'swrong with me, man, and it's
(34:20):
like I don't feel like it's.
It's moral injuries working fora company when my buddy died.
There's other ones, one.
I just don't talk about Ifinally did to a therapist.
I violated my moral code bigtime and it haunts me to this
day and uh, but I worked through.
(34:40):
I finally got to talk to two orthree people about it ever and
that that's what I I kind ofdetermined.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Moral injury is a huge fucking thing that people
still get hung up on and I'mtelling you from somebody that
has helped and been a peersupport resource for people like
there's a lot to be said abouthaving to do the job, but we
don't.
A lot of the shame that we packon and take on has to do with
(35:03):
moral injury.
Man, people need to understandlike we have to talk.
We have to find that source ofuh, of respite with somebody
that we trust, whether it's aprovider or somebody in your
life, somebody that you can goto and talk.
Man, the GWAT was not easy fora lot of us and it's okay to
have these things that you wantto unpack.
(35:24):
Don't take it to the grave,don't continue to suffer.
Get it out.
Man, like that's one of thehardest things that I still like
.
People are always like God, I'mfine, I didn't do anything in
combat, and then finally liketalk for a few more hours and
they're well actually.
Here's something I dealt with.
It's like fuck, dude, that'simpactful.
You know you don't need to becarrying that shit.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, and for the audience of people that uh tune
in is you know, a moral injuryis when you have more shame and
guilt.
It's shame and guilt based.
It's when you, if you have comefrom a, most people have a
moral code.
There there's a lot of degrees.
I have a very strict one andwhen you violate that and you
have that, you suffer with shameand guilt.
It's different than afear-based condition and it's
(36:08):
pretty crazy.
I didn't learn about that untilyears after I started putting
work in.
I was doing five nonprofits perday.
Five hours of my day consistedof, like, different nonprofit
work, different modalities Greatbook If you want to start your
journey understanding, uh, moralinjury.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Uh, I'll put a link to it in the episode description
Um, because we don't know what.
We don't know that we, like yousaid, like we, we, a lot of us
grow, and there's so manyAmericans out there that did
grow up with good parents andgood morals, good values, and
then they enlist and they gosomewhere, like Iraq during the
early years, the 2003s, 2004swhere a lot of shit was
(36:51):
happening that we don't reallytalk about, that we don't really
express.
We touched a little bit on itwith the Blackwater guys, but
how many of our conventionalMarines, infantry guys dealt
with something and they broughtback and it's just still locked
in with them, deeply shameful,deeply troublesome, because they
feel like they don't, they,they can't get it out, they
can't talk to somebody.
So if you're dealing with that,please.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think the I read an article once about the
absurdity of war and it wassuper interesting.
And when you, when you grow upwith those social cues and norms
, you know and value structure,and then you're thrust into an
impossible situation, likeyou're fixed with decisions that
you just can't reallyunderstand and you got to make a
(37:35):
decision on the spot life ordeath and you know, sometimes
those consequences get you laterin life.
You know cause they just uh,they kind of put a shadow on
your soul.
You know, like a imprint, andit gets a lot of people, you
know, and it's not always rightaway, you know, because we're
guarded.
When you go into thosepositions people are like man,
(37:57):
like you know, know, doing allthose deployments and stuff, and
, um, I know guys stilloperating today I don't even
know they might be on deploymentlike 35, and I'm like, holy cow
, you've been doing this forlike almost 30 years of combat,
like insane.
Now you're in syria and allthis stuff and i'm'm like, how
are you good?
Well, when they transition out,finally, it's going to be a
(38:21):
scary situation because you gotdealing with transition.
Then you have all the stuff,all the static, you know you
have moments of clarity, whereyou're by yourself.
And that's where I struggledwhen I sought out the most
chaotic jobs possible, like as aturnaround expert in defense or
even starting a nonprofit.
It was a ton of work, kept mybrain engaged, like focused, and
(38:45):
then at the end of the dayyou're just like you got time to
yourself.
It's terrifying, cause I'm likeI don't want to think about all
the damn shit I do.
So it's just interesting, youknow, and um, yeah, that's
that's why we got to advocate sohard for folks, because I
didn't know where to start.
So when I started BrothersKeeper Veterans Foundation, I
wanted an organization thatfills in that gap.
(39:06):
So we team up with hundreds ofpartners that do the best and
brightest of care, differentmodalities for different people,
and we take a whole whole bodyapproach.
So your background, your, youknow, it could be religion, your
ethnicity, your militaryexperiences everybody's so
different and there's a lot ofvariables.
(39:27):
So I would like, I want to findtreatment that resonates with
the individual, not trying toput a round peg in a square hole
.
And that's what you know.
There's all these differentverticals.
You got traditional cognitivebehavioral therapy, emdr and all
these different psychologicaltechniques to have people you
really just got to get to unpackwhat bothers you and that's the
(39:49):
goal.
But then there's psychedelicsand untraditional medicine 5meo,
dmt, Ibogaine therapy,ayahuasca, ketamine treatment,
celaganglion, blah, blah.
You go on and on.
They're kind of in a differentspace.
But when traditional medicinedoesn't work, we offer those
(40:10):
resources as well, because somepeople aren't willing.
They're like I've done 10 yearsof therapy or 15 years of
therapy it's done absolutelynothing for me.
Maybe it's the practitioner,maybe it's the approach, but
drug addicts love drugs.
So some of them kind of swingthat way and if it gives them a
little bit of reprieve wherethen they can go do the
traditional.
(40:30):
You know, whatever it takes toget to the goal.
But some people do one modalityand they're good.
And some people like myself Idid five years and I'm still
seeing people just to stayplugged in with the pressures of
you know, business and life andjust making sure I stay on the
proper track and be a goodsteward for the community.
And I don't, you know.
(40:51):
You know you're probablyfamiliar with Mike Day.
You know I speak about him.
Sometimes the Navy SEAL gotshot.
I don't remember I speak abouthim.
Sometimes he was a Navy SEAL,got shot.
I don't remember.
I should know this number.
It was like 20 something, 26times 11.
To the chest, what roomclearing against a high value
target walked out of the roomand his teammates were like what
(41:12):
?
And you know I don't know theins and outs with him as he
wasn't a friend of mine I justread about him and you know he
went on to support nonprofitwork and took his life maybe
about a year plus ago and Ican't ever let that happen
because it rocks so many people.
And no disrespect to that guy,he's you know just the stories
(41:36):
that I read.
I'm like wow, and I use that asan extreme example of like
things that you and I are doing.
What a stud, what a.
What a story.
Unfortunate career but insanewillpower and mindset and
warrior.
But for whatever reason, thedemons got to him, you know, and
that kept me plugged in becauseI, when I started the
(41:58):
organization four years ago, Iwas still highly suicidal and I
was like man, I can't do this toanother veteran.
You know, one suicide impacts135 people on their social
network and it really some otherpeople that are hanging on by a
thread might take their lives.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Absolutely that is.
That is a one, one metric thatwe need to be able to keep aware
.
If you, if you're in that spaceright now, I always tell people
, I urge you to stay in thefight the impact that it has on
your family, your kids,scientifically and it's been
proven 50% or something of ifyou commit suicide, 50% of your
(42:37):
children is likely to commitsuicide, something like that.
Yeah, and it's, it's like man,like I, I, I know it, I bet
there.
I just tell you guys, if you'rein this, if you're feeling it,
if it's this is your chapterthat we're talking about, I urge
you to stay, stay in this fight, reach out to your friends,
your family.
You have that network.
(42:57):
I know it's scary.
I didn't want to reach out tomy friends, but I found the two
friends that I could reach outto, the two friends I could talk
to.
Even if I didn't divulge that Iwas suicidal, I still talked to
Greg and Paul.
I reached out to them on adaily basis, sharing memes and
texting, because I needed tohave that connection.
I knew that I wasn't doing wellenough, but if I could just
laugh with two people that Itrusted and had a common bond
(43:21):
with, I knew that I could keeppushing forward.
So, lgops, man, little groupsof paratroopers, you can keep
each other alive.
You just have to keep treadingwater man.
Whatever analogy you need touse, use it, but stay in this
fight.
Keep reaching out to each otherand if you haven't talked to
your friends in a few days or afew months, reach out today.
In that text, in that simpletext message hey, do you hear
(43:43):
about the latest with Epstein?
Whatever it is to break the ice, just reach out.
There's plenty of thoseconversations to be had.
Exactly, I've told people moreoften than not, our dark veteran
humor has kept more peoplealive than anything and it's a
connective tissue, it's a bridgeto get you to have that
(44:03):
uncomfortable talk of hey man,haven't heard from you in a
while, are you okay?
I'm worried.
Yeah, man, I'm fine.
No, no, no, don't just leave itat that.
That's just the first littleengagement.
Keep digging.
All right, man, let's meet up.
Let's do something.
Let's play a video game online.
Let's watch a movie together.
Let's jump on Discord and watcha movie together.
(44:24):
Even more than ever, I know ourfriend groups get blown up and
people move and travel aroundthe world.
Find a way to connect.
I've been able to sit down andwatch movies with friends on
frigging on Riverside on Discord.
You can do it.
It's up to us.
No one's coming to save the day.
There's no QRF that's going tomagically knock at the door and
be like I'm here to save the day.
(44:44):
It doesn't happen.
What really happens is guyslike me, guys like Chris, we get
better.
When it's not about being 100%.
You just got to get to 70.
Fight to that 70 fuckingpercent.
Get to 70 and start helpingeverybody else out.
You didn't quit on a team.
You didn't quit on your platoon.
I'm asking you not to quittoday.
Just keep moving forward.
(45:05):
You don't have to build anonprofit.
I'd like for you to build anonprofit.
I'd like to get in the fight,because nothing's more
trustworthy than seeing anhonest broker, seeing a fellow
brother starting a nonprofit orbeing a leader within a
nonprofit, you know, just putsome good in the world.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
What I'm trying to champion is like getting the
fuck after it, no matter what'scoming your way.
Like you got to put the work inRight.
And I like to say there'sdifferent verticals in life
financial stability for you andyour family, your relationships
with your kids, your wife, yourgirlfriend, husband, whatever
boyfriend and then you get tophysical fitness.
(45:44):
I love people.
I'm like, hey, work out man tocarry your body.
Proper nutrition is reallyimportant.
You know, let's go RFK.
Like change, let's get poisonsout of our food.
That I mean.
How can you argue against that?
Like the government doesn'tneed to babysit us, you know.
But you know you don't have alot of selection on healthy food
.
But then the last, like there'smany other verticals, but like
spirituality is another one thatanchors people.
(46:06):
You know your religion, god,like tie into that.
I've been getting better.
I'm not the best, strongestChristian in the world.
I try.
I'm failed Christian but I workon it and the more work that
I'm doing I'm finding my peacethere.
But also mental health, man, itgets overlooked in the community
and I'm like I'm not trying todiscourage anybody.
Young warfighters, men, womenthat are going to join the
(46:29):
military.
First responders.
You know people, you know thatyou have a higher frequency of
trauma.
Deal with it as it comes andjust like you're working out, if
you have a traumatic event, youknow you lose your family in a
car wreck and you're in thevehicle, you're the sole
survivor, similar to themilitary.
Well, you gotta, you gotta getthrough that properly.
You can't just put walls up andthink you're going to be good
(46:51):
because they it's likemicro-terrorists, man.
They add up, it's a cumulativeeffect effect the death of a
thousand paper cuts if you don't.
So it's like deal with thingsas they come.
A lot of people have childhoodtrauma that I've been working
with could be physical orpsychological or sexual abuse.
As a kid I'd unpack that stuff,man, because then when you have
(47:13):
more trauma as an adult, youknow we're exposed with our
careers in the past toexceptional amounts of like
losing friends, being likesurvivor's guilt and this and
that and traumatic braininjuries.
It's the frequency that getsyou, you know, for some people.
And I just tell people, dealwith things as they come, man,
if you had that backgroundgrowing up, just it's not dude,
(47:34):
you're strong to deal with thisstuff.
You know, and like I told youbefore we started the podcast,
do I want to be known as thefreaking nut guy in the
community?
Not really, but if I have tochampion this, you know my
reputation means a lot to me.
I don't have time to make upfor it.
Being terminally ill, I couldbe dead in a week.
Maybe I get a couple of years,I get lucky.
(47:56):
I just want to have a goodreputation in the community.
It means a lot.
So to do this work it'sexceptionally hard for me
because I find myself to be awarrior.
I don't want to be.
I'm not crying about my pastexperiences or anything.
I would do it all over again.
I'd be a little smarter.
But I just want people to youknow, deal with these things as
they come.
If you're a young warfighter,you know, deal with these things
(48:19):
as they come.
If you're a young warfighter,use your mind as a weapon and
hone those skills you know anddeal.
You know you can stay and getback in the fight.
You know.
But you got to take a minute togive yourself some grace once
in a while and work, you know,on that, on that skillset and
vertical.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Absolutely man.
And then the faith.
The faith part is the what Ialways say's like.
It's oftentimes the last oneand I'm grateful that I found my
way back to my faith.
I think everything happens fora reason.
But explore that, Be willing toexplore that.
And there's no such thing as aperfect Christian, perfect
Catholic.
We're all just trying to do ourbest each and every day, Like
(48:54):
if you can get your rosary in,good, If you can get two in,
even better.
But if you forget, if you don'tget a chance to do it, go to
sleep.
But before you do that, do atleast one Hail Mary.
Whatever you can do, Likethere's nobody perfect in this
world, the fact that you've cometo it, the fact that you found
it, that's a testament.
That's what God ultimatelywants from us to get better, one
(49:15):
day at a time, best footforward and man like.
It's up to us to find that faith.
Whatever it is for you,listening at home, whatever it
is, explore it, be willing to doit.
We're warriors for a reason.
We're not just warriors whilewe're in it.
It matters more now than everon the outside, building that
family, being a good steward andcontinuing to help others.
(49:36):
That's the greatest thing wecould ultimately do in this
world being of service to othersand helping somebody get better
, and what you're doing withyour foundation, Chris, is
exactly that.
There's no saints, it's justguys that are doing 70% better
or 65% better and trying to getthe other guys there, and that's
something that we need more ofas we begin to close it down,
(49:57):
like how can we get in touchwith you, how can we get
involved with your foundation?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, kind of the call for action is.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent nonprofits out there
and we're aligned with some ofthe best in my opinion, which is
great, right.
But the call for action forpeople that want to get involved
.
You can volunteer, you know,with our organization.
You can donate, you can attendour events.
You can simply spread the wordon social media so you can find
(50:23):
us at bkvforg it's BrothersKeeper Veterans Foundation, not
my Brothers Keeper Some peoplehave been saying that but yeah,
bkvforg, if you need help, youcan go to get help.
There's a dropdown, a socialwork.
Reach out with you in just afew hours and they'll put an
action plan together for care.
And you know we have two eventscoming up right now.
(50:46):
We just finished, we closedabout five events in the last 30
days, which is a grind.
We have over a hundred veteransin our care, which I'm proud to
say right now in this month.
So those things, everything'spredicated by resource.
We need people to kind of.
Financial support is number one.
And we have a gala coming up inNashville, tennessee, at the
City Winery from 6 to 10 pm onSaturday 13th of September.
(51:08):
We also are looking for runners, anybody who likes to suffer
and do dumb things and runmarathons.
All you marathon runners, we'responsoring the Marine Corps
Marathon.
We've got 15 runners.
We need another 10 to fill up,but that's on October 26th, I
think it's in DC.
Go to our website for moreinformation.
Sorry, and those are the nexttwo big ones that are coming up,
(51:31):
and so any support.
You know, just following us onsocial media is cool.
We just had a guy named MattRogers, country music artist.
He performed a song for a localveteran here in Georgia that
committed suicide, commandSergeant Major Corey Moore, and
he was a friend with him,reached out and I know I'm
friends with, actually, ourclinical psychologist.
(51:52):
Her husband was good friendswith him and he called me the
day that he died here in Georgia.
Good friends with him, and hecalled me the day that he died
here in Georgia.
And this guy, matt Rogers,great dude, just did a tribute
concert on Broadway forNashville.
He wrote a song calledCamouflage.
You can go on Spotify costs younothing, just download the song
.
And he's giving us royalties toBKBF for a certain amount of
(52:13):
downloads.
He'll.
You know he gives us all theroyalties, so that's cool too
and it supports his.
You know he's a, he's a patriotand he wanted to do something
for the veteran community, eventhough he's not a veteran, and
love that guy and that's anotherway you got everyone can
support.
Sorry to blow it up, but hey,I'll take it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
That's what we do here.
We support great causes, greatorganizations.
So, yeah, this is a hundredpercent what I love to do being
able to put a spotlight on greatnonprofits that are helping our
great veterans, because wedeserve it.
So many people have doneamazing things in the past 20
years of war and it's up to ournonprofit space, our leaders
(52:53):
like yourself and every veteran,to dive in and help out where
we can.
And if that's downloading asong on Spotify, go to the
episode description, download itand you'll see a link right
here.
There you go, make my videoeditor do some work, lazy
bastard.
But man, chris, it's been apleasure having you on, brother,
I know you're in the fightevery single day and I'm
selfishly.
We're going to pray and add youto the list that we get 10, 15
(53:17):
years more of you, because thework is there, man, we need you,
I'm ready for anything, thelast thing I'll say is I'm
drinking out of this coffee cup,which made me think of the
people.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Unfortunately, I got this in San Antonio when we went
to Warriors Heart about a monthago and you know thoughts and
prayers to those.
You know I don't know when thisairs, but you know, obviously,
the tragedies and tragic lossesout in Texas.
Man, shout out to all the firstresponders and people.
You know I feel really bad forthose guys.
I wish I was closer because Iwould love to volunteer some
(53:48):
time with this cripple to dowhatever I could to support.
So you know, shout out to allthe Texans that are going
through some tough times.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, Texas Hill Country needs everybody, and
there's a good amount of peopleout there right now doing a lot
of work.
So hats off to you guys thatare out there actively helping
our Texas Hill Country folks.
Man and yeah and again, Chris,thank you so much for what
you're doing.
Thank you all for tuning in andplease do me a favor, Take care
of each other and we'll see youall next time.
(54:18):
Until then, take care,Appreciate it.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom,
forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
Connect with us on Instagram Xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
You can also visitsecurityhallcom for exclusive
(54:40):
content, resources and updates.
And remember we get throughthis together.
If you're still listening, theepisode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
Thank you.
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