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In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Michelle Lang, founder of Operation Honor Rural Salute, to discuss the hidden challenges veterans face during the transition to civilian life—especially in rural America.
Michelle shares her personal journey as a veteran spouse and advocate, revealing how isolation, limited access to care, and lack of awareness about VA benefits can drastically impact the mental health and success of veterans and their families. She details her nonprofit's mission to bridge the gap through community outreach, resource festivals, and mental health support programs that empower veterans and spouses across the country.
From navigating post-service identity shifts to building grassroots solutions for underserved communities, this episode is a call to action for anyone passionate about veteran advocacy, mental health, and community impact.
🎯 Whether you're a veteran, spouse, caregiver, or advocate—this episode will leave you inspired, informed, and ready to make a difference.
👉 Don’t forget to follow, like, share, and subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts for more inspiring stories that honor those who serve.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Operation Honor
02:39 The Transition Challenge for Veterans
05:22 Building a Nonprofit: Lessons Learned
08:16 Creating a Resource Library for Veterans
10:38 Innovative Outreach: Festivals for Veterans
13:36 Community Engagement and Support
16:11 The Importance of Face-to-Face Interaction
19:05 Breaking Down Barriers in Rural America
28:53 Life in Rural America: Dignity and Hard Work
30:09 Veterans and Their Connection to Home
32:00 Building Trust in Rural Communities
33:42 Shared Experiences and Connection
35:02 Understanding Fear and Seeking Help
36:15 The Importance of Education and Benefits
37:27 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
39:13 The Role of Nonprofits in Transition
40:39 Empowering Military Spouses
43:04 The Unseen Burden of Military Spouses
45:45 Mental Health and Family Dynamics
48:25 Prioritizing Family for Career Success
50:18 The Journey of Healing Together
53:55 Intentional Relationships and Support Systems
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Follow Michelle on Social media!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ohruralsalute/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-baker-lang/
Website: https://www.ohruralsalute.org/home
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent.
(00:21):
It's hosted by me, dannyCaballero.
Michelle Lang welcome.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good, how are you?
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Absolutely.
I love finding nonprofits thatare tackling the tough jobs and
tough challenges.
Now more than ever we haveveterans that are trying to push
away from the city life, tryingto get out there, live in the
country, find a slower pace oflife and come to find out.
It is hard to get resourceswhen you unplug, when you find
your peace.
So Operation Honor is awesomebeing able to find our
(00:55):
communities and being able toplug them in and make them more,
not just resilient and makingthem self-service, but finding
ways to connect them with thevaluable resources that they've
earned.
They're supposed to be able toget at any moment's notice, but
finding ways to connect themwith the valuable resources that
they've earned they're supposedto be able to get at any
moment's notice.
But before we dive into themission and the story of how you
started this nonprofit, it'simportant to understand where
(01:15):
the idea came from, because moreoften than not, it's service
members and their families thatare solving these issues.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I mean true.
And what I like to say is ourstory is not unique and that's
why it needs to be told isbecause so many people want to
feel like they are the only ones, they're alone, they're dumb,
they can't figure it out, andit's just like it's not true
we're all going through.
I mean, when you transitionfrom the military, it's just a
(01:42):
different period of growth, butyou expect to know what to do
because you've been doingmilitary life for the last
whatever 10, 15, 20 years andyou knew how to figure out the
next step.
And whenever you transition tocivilian life, it's just like,
yeah, duh, I know how to be aperson, but it really is a
different world.
And so my family.
(02:03):
We had that happen to us wheremy husband had a really bad
transition and on the outsideeverything was cool, he had a
job, we were back home in ourhome state, he had, you know,
really strong support systemwith our family, but internally
he fell apart because he nolonger had a mission, he no
longer had a purpose, he nolonger, you know, he felt like
(02:23):
he had the carpet ripped outfrom underneath of him.
He didn't get to fulfill hisduty, really.
And so how can you do that?
Whenever you're removed fromthat world?
What's the point of wasn'tenough for him.
But it didn't scratch that itch.
That military experience andthe provider that he was with
had no idea how to relate to him.
(03:08):
Our life really really fellapart.
We were on the verge of divorce.
He was not well mentally.
I mean, I was very afraid forhis life.
We eventually got it backtogether.
He signed up for a deploymentwithout telling me so.
Luckily right before then itwas all good.
Yeah, while he was away, Istarted talking to other
military spouses and veteranspouses and they were just like,
(03:31):
yeah, we had the same issuewhenever, you know, john got out
.
I couldn't find what he neededand these were like smart people
, like lawyers, educated people.
So it's not just you don't knowwhat to do.
It's an unfamiliar territoryand I found in rural areas you
don't even know who to askbecause there's probably nobody
(03:53):
there for you to even ask thequestion.
It's not like you can just goto the S1 shop and say, fix it
for me.
So what do you do?
And so we he got back in and wefound ourselves at Fort Bragg
and I was like, okay, this is areally opportune place to start
a nonprofit and make some change, and so we've been doing this
(04:16):
ever since 2021.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Wow, man, a lot of unpack right there.
So you initially transition, gothrough the identity, the
purpose, the loss of all that,and then he decides to go back
in what was.
Were you thrilled at thatdecision?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Honestly, I kind of was, because I kind of the
military life is comforting tome as a spouse.
And ask me 10 years ago if Iwould have felt the same way.
I would have been likeabsolutely not.
Because I gave up a career formy boyfriend at the time to move
to a frozen tundra that is FortDrum, remained unemployed,
(04:59):
depressed, and I was just like,what have I done?
What have I done?
But eventually the military isjust as comforting.
I knew what to expect.
I knew that we had a paycheckcoming.
You know, I knew that there'sjust so many knowns you have
with the military, even thoughthere's so many unknowns.
Everything is figureoutable inthe military.
(05:19):
But whenever you're in thecivilian world after, it's like
starting over.
It's like coming out of collegeand it's okay.
Whenever you're in the civilianworld after, it's like starting
over.
It's like coming out of collegeand it's okay whenever you're
out of college, to be eatingrice and beans and you know
making it work.
But when you're a grown adultand you're like feeling like you
just graduated high school,graduated college, and you're
like holy, like what are wegoing to do?
(05:42):
It is scary, feeling likeyou're starting over.
So for him getting back in.
I was like okay, I feel like Ican breathe a sigh of relief now
.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It's often like a reset it can be and then it's a
common story.
You get out, the transition isawful, it's shaky, it's like a
flight of nonstop turbulence andit's like wait a second, I
don't love what I'm doing.
I don't love this.
I'm just going to run back into what I know.
It's a common story.
I know so many people and ifit's not going back to active
(06:11):
duty, it's going to nationalguard getting that AGR getting
at least some sort of footinginto like what you know.
The comfort of understanding,like this is my life, this is my
world.
But it also primes you.
Just, this is my world, but italso primes you.
Just like you said, it givesyou a unique understanding of
like okay, let's study how wefailed, let's study what systems
weren't developed, what didn'tgo right, how can I take this
(06:34):
case study and make itpurposeful, make it meaningful
to help somebody else?
And it sounds like exactly whatyou did tried our best, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, I mean and and that we learned a lot of lessons
.
I always say I don't fail, justhad learning experiences from
it.
Like nothing is ever a failurefor me.
I just learn from it and moveforward.
And if you're going to fail,fail forward.
So fast yes yeah, and that'sreally what I I try to do.
I, you know my husband marriedthe right woman.
(07:04):
I'm very stubborn, I'm verydetermined and you know, when he
was in that space, I kind ofjust drug him along with me
because I'm like son of a gun.
We're going to figure this out,yeah, and I like to think that
I can be that voice for peopleto have that same determination
whenever, like, you don't haveto have it all figured out, but
you just have to keep trying andyou're going to fail a lot, but
(07:27):
if you're still trying, you'restill in the game.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yep, never quit.
It's hard to say and bring thatup to somebody that's feeling
completely lost, with no senseof direction, but you just have
to keep paddling, keep movingforward, get your bearings one
small foot forward, one smallstep forward each and every day
to get you out of that holewhich is it's uniquely tied to
that transition journey.
(07:50):
It's devastating for a lot ofpeople.
Nobody's free from that.
I don't care if you're the mostelite.
The greatest of the greattransition is going to kick you
in the ass.
It's going to be difficult.
When you were developing this,how did that?
Where did the idea come fromand how did you first start
going through like the idea of,okay, I'm going to build
something, this is my newmission?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, where we started is very different from
where we're at now.
So there's been a lot of pivotsbetween 2021 to where we're at
right now.
So when we first started, itwas like creating a database of
local help nationally, because alot of people didn't know that
(08:32):
you could, that there werecounty veteran service officers
that you could go and utilize,and not all county veteran
service officers are created thesame, and so it's there's just
it's very, very complicated todo that, but that's where we
started and we had differentcategories of help, and so we
invested in this really robusttracking system, this database
(08:56):
and, you know, had it all mappedout and it was beautiful.
You know, data's beautiful, thismap was gorgeous, but it's so
tough because you don't havecontrol over all those local
organizations.
And what I started to realizeis what I have on my map, on my
database, is a reflection of ourorganization and I could not
(09:16):
with full integrity recommendthese organizations, that
particular veteran serviceofficer, that particular veteran
service officer, withoutknowing them personally.
And so we made the switch fromthis large kind of generalized
data system database to a muchsmaller, focusing just on rural
(09:37):
and small town veteran resourcelibrary, and so I had to learn
how to build a website.
I had to learn all this stuffthat I had no idea, and my first
website was absolutely awful.
It was, it was.
I feel that pain.
(10:01):
I'm still there.
It You're the you know databasetechnician, you're everything,
and it's just like I went toschool for business management
essentially, and I have stillused about zero of that degree.
So thank God, my college haspaid off because I don't
recommend.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Zero out of five stars, folks.
Zero out of five.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Had some really fun times, but I don't know if it
was worth the price tag.
Yeah, but I mean from where westarted to where we are now.
It's much more specialized andwe focus a lot less on in-person
resources.
If you need an in-personresource, I still will guide you
and direct you to them, but I'mgoing to have a conversation
with them first before Irecommend them to you.
(10:44):
Who is on our resource librarynow?
Only people that I've had manyconversations with very good,
very trusted resources that Iknow.
Whenever you email them,whenever you ping them, whatever
they are going to respond toyou, they're going to help you
and they're going to care enoughthat if they're not the one for
you, they're going to recommendsomebody else for you.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, that's a unique approach that is often
missing.
I've rented.
You know there's nothing worsethan trying to get somebody into
care or a resource.
You click on the website, youget the phone number and it's
out of date.
No one answers.
There's nobody there, theservices aren't real anymore and
it's frustrating.
(11:24):
It's frustrating because younever know what's going to land
on that person's Google firstpage when they're reaching out
for help and they're looking forthe local area, and that is a
missing thing.
If you're listening out there,update your shit.
If you're, if you no longerprovide services, remove
yourself from from Google.
Remove, take down your website.
There are a lot of people thatare hitting these links, going
(11:45):
to dead ends, and that'sdevastating.
That's insane and it'sincredible.
It's a lot of work.
It is not an easy thing to keepup and it's a man hats off to
you that takes a lot of it'slike.
It's like being a detective,honestly.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, I liked it, like I was prepared for this
, though In college.
You know Facebook was popularand so you know our roommates.
You'd find somebody you weredancing with last night and
you're like, okay, we'reinternet detectives right now.
All right, we're going toresearch.
You found out that you lived inthose dorms.
This is your friend.
So I was.
(12:21):
We were built for this.
My, my friends and I were builtfor this.
We were internet detectivesback in the day.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being a stalker online has helped.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
More than my college degree.
I love it, so I did learn somethings in college.
It's difficult to figure out.
It's like, okay, we want tolaunch, we want to help, we want
to get out there.
How do you get your name outthere?
How do you start helping?
That's one of the difficultthings for a lot of people.
(12:50):
Everybody has the same for themost part.
A lot of us have the samejourney.
We went through something.
It was deeply difficult.
It changed us.
Now we get on the backside ofthat journey.
We're doing better.
We want to help.
How do you turn all that actionin an actual, meaningful way
and actually start doingsomething good for others?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think I mean, if you choose to go the nonprofit
route, the business route, whatI've learned is that you've just
got to humble yourself.
Okay, so the position ofauthority that you were in,
especially in the militarycommunity, where you already
have that really strong network,you might have been super cool
there, but, like starting abusiness, you have got to have
(13:35):
that proof of concept.
You've got to show that you cando the work.
So, like you were cool withyour, you know, really, really
good at your job, but now you'redoing something new, you've got
to humble yourself a little bit, put in the work and build that
trust, that collaboration, andthen people are going to want to
help you support your business.
(13:55):
Also, don't expect friends andfamily and your neighbors to
automatically support yourbusiness and don't be offended
by it Like keep working, keepshowing up, and it takes time.
There's 44,000 plus nonprofitsout there in the veteran space
right now.
It's wild.
Some people are burnt out onnonprofits.
(14:15):
Some people have been burntthemselves by nonprofits.
Some people, whatever You'vegot to keep showing up.
You've got to be humble andyou've got to do the work and
it'll get you there.
But it is a slow process.
I think that just comes down toa lot of it is remembering why
you started and being humbleenough to just continue to serve
others in that way.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, it's true, like we have to.
Everybody wants some likeimmediate success these days,
whether it's a podcast, aYouTube channel, a nonprofit, a
business.
Um, rarely.
You know.
We're not everybody's going tobe Mark Zuckerberg and that
everybody's going to have themillion dollar idea.
So, if you really truly love theprocess they tell people, fall
(14:57):
in love with the ugly parts allin love with the incredibly
difficult parts of this, thisjourney that you're in the
things that you hate the most.
If you hate the social mediaside of the house, learn to love
it.
Figure out a way to make itenjoyable.
Figure out a way to get excitedabout doing it.
It's not fun, it's the worstthing out there, but in my
experience, in my own livedexperience, that's the thing
(15:20):
that I hated and didn't want todo, and now I get paid to do it
for other people.
Um, I still think it sucks, butI found a way to understand
that, yeah, man, like you can.
You can be extremely successfulwith things that you don't
really enjoy, it's long as youyou understand that it's part of
the greater mission and findaspects of you do love.
(15:42):
I get to connect with a millionpeople on a daily basis through
several other differentbusinesses.
It's pretty awesome when itcomes to nonprofit too.
When you're helping otherpeople, that feels great, that
when you know you're connectingwith a community of people that
are able to reach out and say,hey, thank you for what you're
doing.
You helped me get X, y and Z.
(16:02):
That has to be rewarding.
And what has the outreach andthe communication been like from
the local communities thatyou're involved in helping?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So we just wrapped up our last festival in
Pennsylvania on the 10th and wedid something new with that
festival where we actuallybrought in different VA
facilities and put them underone tent.
So we actually have fourdifferent VA facilities under
this tent and we advertise.
We always bring in veteranresources to our festivals,
because I trick people intocoming to a veteran resource
(16:35):
fair.
It's like getting your kids toeat vegetables, you know, you
just got to trick them a littlebit, but we make it very, very
fun.
We have local nonprofits, wehave national nonprofits.
This year we added the VAfacilities there and so we
advertise.
You know, bring your DD-214.
If you want to get help, thisis a big deal.
(16:56):
This is your one shot to havethem in your backyard.
We brought in generators, webrought in hotspots.
We allowed them to serveveterans where they were at.
I mean, the stories from thattent alone was incredible.
I mean I had one guy come up tome and say I got more done in
(17:19):
20 minutes today than I have in30 years and I cannot thank you
enough.
Minutes today than I have in 30years and I cannot thank you
enough and it was just like.
That is incredible becausethere is so much whenever you
live in rural America.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize to go to the VA in my
hometown.
If you were to go to the VA,you're traveling at least an
hour over mountains.
Whichever VA you go to, we livein Pennsylvania You're either
(17:43):
going to West Virginia or you'regoing up north and it's not an
easy route to get there.
So if you're elderly, you'reasking somebody to take off work
to take you there.
You're waiting there for anhour or two plus the appointment
time, plus all the stuff thatgoes into it.
So it's very intimidating forpeople to want to go there and
(18:05):
even get the process started.
A lot of people in these smalltowns in rural America don't
even get themselves enrolled inbenefits of any kind because
they just they don't want tomess with it.
They're in their 50s, they needhearing aids because their job
I mean this guy's job in theMarines and his hearing is shot
(18:27):
and now his job that he has nowis getting worse and people are
making fun of him because hecan't hear.
He's a good sport about it, buthe's like yeah, I just never
wanted to fuss with it, but Ibrought these people in on a
Saturday.
So now you have an excusewhether you're a shift worker or
not.
They were there from 10 amuntil 5 pm and I had one VA
(18:53):
worker stay until 7.
So 10 to 7, no matter if youare getting off work at 3, you
were able to make that tent andbuddy they did.
They kept that VA tent busy andwe had people coming from two
hours away just to do that,because then that was a fun
thing for them to do.
It was fun to visit the VA toget their problem solved.
They could then shop localcraft vendors, veteran-owned
military spouse-owned vendorsfrom the food trucks.
Their kids could play in thebounce house and they could go
(19:14):
up the hill and watch live music.
So that was by far the mostrewarding part of that festival
is seeing people immediately getthe benefit.
Well, I mean not get thebenefits, but get enrolled in
the system that they should havebeen enrolled in from the start
.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Wow, michelle, we got to unpack this section right
now.
I didn't understand how manyveterans were reluctant to sign
up for the VA benefits.
They started engaging inface-to-face interactions and
talking Our Gulf War veterans,vietnam veterans, individuals
that served, even our currentgeneration of GWAT veterans
(19:53):
there are so many that get outand never deal with it, never
get the benefits that they'reowed because they don't want to
hassle.
Now, largely, there's thatnegative connotation with the VA
.
Some have definitely earned it.
Other facilities are completelydifferent and I understand that
.
Now I've seen the difference.
(20:15):
But there's a stigma withsigning up and getting your
benefits, no matter how easythey make.
It seem like going online,figuring stuff out online.
Everybody has this general ideathat it's just easier than ever
, and that's not true.
But we're also dealing with oldmyths and stigmas of it's
impossible and it's notimpossible.
Some can be challenging, butit's not impossible.
But some people still believethat it's just out of my reach.
(20:38):
I'm not going to bother with it, but putting together a
festival to bring providers outthere, to bring the VA out there
holy shit, break this down.
Where did this idea come from?
And, yeah, to tell us, talk usthrough this idea, because I
think that's something that weneed to be doing all around the
(21:00):
United States.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And that's our goal.
So our goal is to do abasically a state festival in
every state every year.
So our long term goal is 50festivals a year.
Every year I try really hard tomeet people where they're at
and I'm lucky to have kind oflike this unique marketing
experience for rural Americabecause of the hospital that I
(21:22):
used to work at.
My first job out of college wasthe community outreach
coordinator for our smallcritical access hospital in my
hometown, and so part of my jobwas helping to assess the
community needs and then findgrants, find programs or create
them to meet that need, and soit's like everything's like a
puzzle piece to me.
But also I'm from rural America.
(21:43):
We're a little bit salty, we'rea little bit different, we're a
little bit different.
I don't know.
We're not easy to market to,but that's part of the challenge
that I love, and so thesefestivals are born of that.
It's like how do I meet theseneeds in a way that the
community wants them met?
So I mean as a resource myself,I find veteran resource fairs
(22:08):
very boring.
You are getting the sameclientele through who are there
because they're ambitious.
They are, you know, taking ahold of their life or maybe
their command told them to bethere.
You know what I mean.
So I'm not reaching the peoplethat are just skating by because
they don't have time to show upto these things or these things
(22:30):
aren't available.
So there's a couple ofdifferent things that happen at
these festivals.
The overall goal is forveterans to come and get the
resources, but also have thecommunity understand that
there's resources available andthen see how they can better
support their veterans.
Because what happens in smalltown America is we're super
(22:50):
patriotic, right, we loveAmerica, we love our veterans.
You drive down small town USAand you see the banners hanging
on Main Street of the veteranpicture or flag or whatever, and
they say thank you for yourservice.
But that doesn't solve thesuicide problem, that doesn't
solve homelessness, that doesn'tsolve a lot of problems.
(23:11):
It's great to be thanked, butwe need something real and so
doing these festivals for theentire community, it just breaks
down barriers because now youhave the community that is able
to see what all's available.
It eliminates the intimidationfactor for civilians to reach
out to veteran serviceorganizations and it also allows
(23:33):
veterans to open up a littlebit, and there's a lot of that
happening in the aisles of thisfestival where veterans are
opening up to each other.
Civilians are kind of seeingall this happen.
And so what we do to get peoplethere is we just make it super
duper fun for kids.
And that sounds weird.
But millennials, my friends andI noticed that you know we
(23:54):
can't do anything unless itinvolves our kids, because we
don't have people to watch ourkids.
You know there's this wholething right now and so we have
to make it super fun for kids,for people to get there, for
that demographic in particularto get there.
We have, like this year, we hadbounce houses, mechanical bull
axe throwing rock wall, dcnrbrought animal pelts.
(24:17):
We have fire trucks, militaryvehicles, really, really cool
stuff, face painting, snow cones, funnel cakes, all that stuff.
But then we also have shopping.
So we have local vendors thatcome in, some civilians, a lot
of veteran-owned craft vendors,food makers, military
spouse-owned.
(24:38):
We have the veteran resourcesthat show up.
We have food trucks.
We bring in speakers.
So this year we did like a localhistorian because in our town
the Civil War came right throughthere, and so he did the
history of the Civil War inFulton County.
We had a story time from thelibrary.
We had benefits experts, we hada veteran and military spouse
(25:02):
entrepreneurship panel and thenwe have live music all day.
This year we had aveteran-owned brewery come and
do a beer garden.
So it's like it literally is afestival that we put on to get
people there to have fun andrelax and just feel supported.
But when you're walking up anddown these aisles, we have
really engaging veteran serviceorganizations that you're going
(25:24):
to want to these aisles.
We have really engaging veteranservice organizations that
you're going to want to stop andask questions to.
100% of the time those boothsare full with people asking
questions, getting the problemsolved.
I don't know.
It's really an amazingexperience to see, and I even
had some vendors this year.
That said, even if we did notsell a single thing, we would
(25:47):
100% come back just to witnesswhat we witnessed in front of
our booths, because there was somuch healing.
That happens and people don'texpect that to happen.
But whenever you're seen, Ithink you just let your guard
down and you kind ofaccidentally heal a little.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I 100% believe that A lot of times we get so bogged
down with what we're doing on aday-to-day life that we're not
connected with the support weneed from people like us with
the same lived experience, withthe same backgrounds, with the
same lived experience with thesame backgrounds.
And then you go to a festivalnot thinking that you're going
to connect and engage and havediscussions that go below that
(26:31):
first, second and third layer ofjust random engagement, and you
have a real down-to-earthdiscussion about, maybe, your
service, what you're dealingwith, what you're struggling
with, and, rather than justleave the event without engaging
anymore or getting help, youcan actually go to somebody that
can help you find an answer.
(26:52):
That's incredible, that is.
And yes, we are connected, nowmore than ever because of the
internet and social media, butit's very superficial.
This can never replaceface-to-face engagement, can
never replace having somebody bevulnerable and give you know,
(27:14):
give, give insight to whatthey're struggling with and then
in that moment literally pointthem into the right direction of
being able to sit down andaddress that issue and that's a
hundred percent needed more,more so than ever.
Now we are so divided, sodivided in the veteran space is
kind of a negative echo chamberat time, because this doesn't
(27:37):
help you actually.
You know, stop being a jerk,stop being disgruntled.
But you get in front of somelive music, you get in front of
people that care and you can sitdown and be like wow, like okay
, maybe I need to give away tothis facade of being angry and
disgruntled and just ask forhelp, because I've seen that in
person as well too.
The guy that doesn't want toget help and he's really into
(28:00):
that fake persona.
The moment someone's kindenough and says, hey, no, dude,
you can get help, today we canliterally get you to somebody a
resource.
They're like you know what?
Yeah, I'll take a gamble rightnow let's do it.
That's the best thing we can dofor people is give them the
ability to just start to processin person.
It's so hard to champion acause where it's online.
(28:21):
It really is.
Some people the youngergeneration, might, but our older
veterans still want to be ableto sit down in front of somebody
and talk.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Absolutely, especially in rural America.
I mean, I still am the type ofperson where I would rather go
into a store and talk tosomebody and get my problems
solved than have to deal withthe customer service.
Like I don't want all that.
I want to go down to the store,like even whenever I'm home I'm
going down to the local bankbecause our bank for my
(28:51):
nonprofit is in.
I'm going there in person andtalking to you face-to-face, get
my problems solved, becausethen I know that I have your
full, undivided attention.
So it is an efficiency measurefor me.
But I prefer that.
Just, being from rural America,I need to look you in the eyes,
I need to shake your hand, andthis demographic in particular.
(29:15):
Why I have such a heart forthem is like I my daddy was a
dairy farmer and we come from aline of dairy farmers.
I know what life is like inrural America and I know how
hard these people work and Iknow that they will not ask for
help, but they are the firstpeople to drop everything and
offer help and I just I want togive back to them in a way that
doesn't take their dignity.
(29:36):
You know I'm not offering ahandout to you, I'm not.
I'm just trying to offer youwhat you've already earned and
show you that it's not difficultto obtain.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, it is so true.
People have this idea that thatway of life doesn't exist
anymore, like a lot of people.
Like the day of the cowboy isnot at an end.
The day of the individual thatworks a nine to five and a blue
collar job hasn't come to an end, as much as people tend to
think.
Like people forget.
Like it's no, it's alive andwell and people are thriving.
They just need access to thebenefits they've earned.
(30:11):
Transition's not easy and manyof our veterans want to go back
home.
They want to go back to wherethey grew up.
They want to go back to thatlife, whether it's ranching,
whether it's working on a dairyfarm, whether it's working in
their family plumbinginstitution that they've built
for generations.
At a time like they want tostay in those jobs.
They want to stay in that lifeand we need to be able to market
(30:32):
to them and be able to meetthem where they're at.
That's the difficult part.
Like how do we get away fromthe?
Oh, just sign up online.
Some people don't want tofrigging.
Do that.
Like, how do we get to them?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
yeah, and it's.
It's hard work gettingresources to these areas and and
for a while it took, you know,a little buy-in from them like
trusting me to host this, butthis was our third festival
doing it and, um, you know,we've increased.
My calendar is telling me Ineed to check my sourdough right
(31:03):
now.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Sorry, you are from a rural area.
I knew it, Although these dayssourdough is pretty popular
everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I know I'm like I don't have enough to do.
I'm just going to try and keepone more living thing alive.
So we have sourdough.
I taught myself how to can.
This week I canned green beans.
I'm good Like I'm.
Laura Ingalls is what I feellike.
I'm very proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I am living this life , and here's proof.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I made my kid do some you knowchild labor.
He picked green beans with meand I said don't you complain,
this is what I, this is whatyour mother had to do.
I had to walk uphill both waysto pick these green beans when I
last year age.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
This is incredible insight because you're not just
championing from.
You know, the middle ofdowntown Raleigh.
You're not championing from acity where you're removed from
it.
You're part of it.
You're still part of thisexperience that you're
passionate about, and that'scommendable.
A lot of times people lose thatconnective tissue to who
(32:03):
they're trying to help.
It kind of gives them thatnegative connotation of like oh,
you're not from us anymore.
Like I get it, you're trying tohelp but you're not from this.
How has your life been now thatyou're?
You know you're championingthis cause, you're in it.
Do you feel that thecommunities that you're helping
find it easier to rally aroundyou to support you because
(32:25):
you're from there?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think I have automatic threat of similarity
with people Right, and that'swhere it to a lot of
corporations that try and comeinto rural america and and
(32:46):
that's why there's not a lot ofhelp.
But I I don't necessarily havethe look of rural america like.
My hair is pink, I have twonose rings, I have tattoos, like
I look not of them, but when Istart talking to them and
understand and just offerempathy, there's this similar
vibe that it's like kind of likeI think, meeting another
veteran you know out in the wild, you just get each other.
(33:09):
And so when I talk to peoplefrom rural America, we just get
each other.
And it's really funny becauseactually yesterday I had a
meeting with this guy and helives in a city now, but he grew
up in very rural Georgia and heis probably 20, 25 years older
than me, but we started talkingabout our childhood and so
similar.
(33:29):
I grew up in rural Pennsylvania, he grew up in rural Georgia,
and the things that our parentssaid to us, the experiences we
had you know, tending the landare just the way that we think,
and how we've grown since thenwas so similar.
It was just very beautiful tosee that we're really not alone.
(33:50):
Well, I say this all the time weare like in human existence,
living in a very sharedexperience, but we often feel so
alone and isolated.
It's just because we're nothaving these type of
conversations, and so we are waymore connected than what you
think.
You're not a beautifulindividual snowflake.
We're all unique, yes, but weall have very, very similar
(34:13):
experiences and that is such awonderful thing, and so, yeah, I
do think that it offers me theability to have that little bit
of trust, but I don't take thatlightly and I protect that.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's common humanity.
If most of us finallyunderstand it when we're going
through suffering and go aheadand get help, and somebody helps
us understand that oursuffering is not unique and only
connected to us or thousands,millions of people that have
gone through what we'reexperiencing or similar things,
and that understanding kind ofhelps lessen that pain, it's go.
(34:49):
I'm not a unique personsuffering this one thing by
myself, but no connected to alarger experience.
Like we, we all suffer.
We all have good days, bad days, and I will.
I will get through this thiswill dissipate.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's an important thing and there's no suffering
Olympics, like there's no kingof suffering.
You know what I mean?
That's another thing I hear islike oh, I didn't have it bad
enough to get my VA benefits.
It's like, no, we're not in arace here, buddy, you're not
going to win any medals for howlittle or how much you suffered.
You're still entitled to things.
And so I think I mean.
(35:21):
What I've learned is everybodyacts out of fear.
I think fear is like a basichuman emotion and whether you're
you're angry, you're sad, likefear is very much a controller
of our life, and if you're intouch with it, you can
understand like, oh, I was justbeing an asshole because I was
afraid.
You know what I mean.
Whereas, like, I think that'swhere that disgruntled mindset
(35:42):
comes in, especially people thatdon't want to get help.
It's just like what if I askfor help and I get rejected?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yes, man, that's a, that is such a true sentiment
that if you get somebodyvulnerable enough finally comes
out to the open.
That is, that's a hard one todeal with and it's like man,
like who hurt you?
Like what did you experience inlife that made you feel this
way?
Like no dude, like you deserveto get everything you, you, you,
(36:09):
you've earned, you served, yougave willingly for many years
and even if it wasn't many years, even if it was one or two,
like you served, you gave yourtime, gave your youth.
You deserve your benefits.
It's a hard thing to explain tosome people because maybe
they've been around a lot ofsuffering, maybe they've seen
loss, they've seen friends havelost limbs, eyesight, have been
(36:31):
deeply impacted by war, and theyrealize, oh shit, I was lucky
to make it out alive unscathed,I didn't suffer, I don't need
these benefits.
It's like, no, you do All of usEducation.
Like, no, you do All of usEducation, you've earned your
educational benefits.
Go learn a skill, go learn atrade that will make you better
in your community.
Like you've earned.
That Education is one of thehardest things to sell to,
(36:54):
because people are like, well, Iearned my GI Bill, but I don't
need to go get schools.
No dude like it can make youbetter.
It can help you live a betterlife if you use it, for you know
you don't have to go to college.
You can get you know, help withyou know, financing for you
know that skill or trade thatyou want to enhance and improve.
And those are all unique thingsthat are out there and people
(37:17):
just I've seen people and theirquality of life improve when
they're willing to bet onthemselves and that's easy.
One of the easiest ones to getpeople signed up for is your GI
benefit.
Go back.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yeah, yeah, people.
I mean, you don't have tosuffer greatly in war.
A lot of times you sacrificeyour youth for the country, like
you sacrifice the developmentof your prefrontal cortex.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we're not making decisionsthat are super awesome, like
safety briefs are real for areason, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
There's some work you've got to do and, just like
the military in general, is verypurposefully designed.
You know how you run throughboot camp and this is me as an
outsider who has no idea, butjust studying the way that
tribes have to build trust witheach other and even fraternities
(38:11):
.
It's like whenever you're in,you're in, Like I went through
this hard thing with you.
I've, you know, went throughthis trauma with you.
We're in, and then what theydon't do well is they don't
deprogram you from that comingout of the military.
And so there's this really bigmindset shift that has to happen
, but that does not happenwhenever you're getting ready to
(38:34):
transition out.
And going in.
The military is veryintentional on how they program
you to be a soldier, be a Marine, whatever, but there is no
programming how to be a civilian.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yes, yeah, we always talk about.
There's a conveyor belt systembuilt to get you in.
There's always a system to getyou to the next echelon of
service where there's aselection process.
If you want to go, become aGreen Beret and become the best
of the best, there's always aprocess.
There's always in a care foryou.
You get the best medical careon the backside.
(39:09):
Transition, I'm sorry.
Soldier for Life, program Zeroout of five stars, absolute zero
out of five stars.
It's my podcast, I guess Idon't know why.
I'm like wondering aboutcussing.
I swear all the time Dog shit,absolute, dog shit.
Swear all the time.
Dog shit, absolute, dog shit,absolute.
The worst fucking thing youcould ever do is put a star
major that never had a job,never transitioned, and put them
in charge of SFL life toprocess and help guys get to the
(39:33):
next.
It was the worst thing and it'sstill dog shit.
I don't understand why we havethis idea that it's good enough.
There should be a clearpipeline and a clear process to
help every single transitioningservice member on the outside.
But we built this reliance onnonprofits, on outside entities
(39:54):
that can help.
I'm a project of the HonorFoundation.
I don't know if they want to beassociated with that, but they
helped me and I always give thema free shout out, always
champion their cause because itdid help me.
I'm proof Look, I'm a dog shitentrepreneur, but at the end of
the day, I am doing it, it ishappening, bills are getting
paid, there's income coming in.
(40:16):
So, fuck, yeah, it's happening,but not everybody gets a chance
to go through that, noteverybody has the opportunity,
and it shouldn't be that way.
It absolutely shouldn't be thatway.
When you look at the way thatyou're structured as a nonprofit
, what are some of the avenuesthat you're excited to get
involved in?
Is transition process somethingthat you see yourself getting
(40:37):
into?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, so one of the things that I've been doing is
Fort Bragg has a the name hasjust escaped me, but it's
basically a trade school on FortBragg.
What is it called?
Home Builder, home BuildingInstitute, nice, okay, so it is
for people, and the thing thatsucks is that you have to be
like a couple weeks out fromyour ETS or have already E ETS
(41:03):
and do this.
So really to transition, well,you need one to two years.
Two years is ideal.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Thank you.
I've been saying that, thankyou.
Yeah, two years, yes.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yes, you, I mean, it takes a while to get your shit
together, really, but so I getto go in every I don't know six
weeks, two months to talk to thegraduating class, and again, it
is a little bit too late, butat least I can offer some type
of help.
Where now, like, I'm supposedto go and talk about Operation
Honor?
Right?
The first thing I ask is howmany of you have ever heard of
(41:37):
the words mental transition?
None of them raised their handbecause nobody's going in and
talking.
Like, I'm going to talk to youright now as a spouse.
You can believe me or not, butI'm going to talk to you about
the ways that you're going tofeel after you leave.
Whether you are normal or you'vehad a wonderful childhood or
you've had a wonderful armyexperience, whatever, you're
(41:58):
going to feel some type of waywhenever you leave and you need
that support system.
So now we've built thisrelationship with the people
that work there.
I said would it be okay if weoffer for spouses to come in?
Because, as a spouse, when myhusband was transitioning, going
through SFL, tap, I would haveloved to sit there and
understand what the hell we weresupposed to be doing.
(42:18):
I don't know if it would havedone much, because I'm not a fan
of SFL TAP.
I don't know if it would havedone much because I'm not a fan
of SFO tap, but at least I wouldhave had an idea.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know I would have felt included in my own life.
Absolutely.
We talk about this a lot.
The primary person that needsto be addressed and I don't care
if you drag me through thecomments, I lived it the primary
person that needs to beaddressed that they failed to
address in transition is thespouse who manages the money,
who manages the budget for thefamily, who's always leaning
(42:50):
forward on tracking everythingfor the family.
The spouse who is constantlynot addressed throughout any of
the transition programs.
The spouse I never had anunderstanding of what the fuck
was going on in my house and forthe vast majority of my career
I didn't have a fucking spouse.
And then, when I got married,even though we were dual
military, guess who understoodmore about our finances to
(43:13):
structure what we were going toand what was down the pipeline
for our family?
My wife, and nobody fuckingfocuses on it.
High achievers marry highachievers and, just like you
talked about earlier, you gaveup your career to be fully
focused on the family.
We have spouses that are driven,determined, that are kick-ass
(43:35):
individuals, that are lookingfor a mission.
Why don't we prime them for thegreatest fucking mission of
their career, which is atransition, and empower them
with the knowledge that theyneed.
Make the focal point of thetransition process the family,
not just the individual servicemember who's going to really
track that information.
Because let me tell you thatindividual is going to sit down
(43:55):
for an SFL tap brief and he'sgoing to retain probably 20%.
You get the spouse involved.
You're going to get the mostfocused individual there with a
binder, with a notebook, withtabs, ready to write down shit,
because she knows that it'simportant for dummy to go to his
freaking QTC appointments.
He's going to brain dump thatbecause he's still working, he's
still meeting the requirementsof his unit.
(44:16):
So, SFL tap and any transitionprogram, you need to make room
for the family, make room forthe spouse, have child care
available, have meals available.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
And we have programs like ASYMCA you know what I'm
like.
We have.
They provide child care, so itis is very doable.
I don't know why it's not athing yet and this is a really
controversial opinion that, Ithink, makes some people mad,
especially if like Do it, say it.
That I'm Listen.
(44:48):
It might irritate some people.
The military runs on the unpaidlabor of military spouses.
Ok, I'm so fucking.
Say it again there is so muchthat we do behind the scenes to
keep.
I try and make my husband'slike we were.
We operate as a team, onethousand percent.
(45:09):
He has.
You know, I'm the CEO.
He's a CEO, like we.
Whatever, we have dualpositions, we operating in
tandem but doing very differentthings.
And I know without me his lifeis really, really hard, because
sometimes I travel for work andhe's left trying to do
everything Whenever he's gonefor a couple months.
(45:31):
It's hard for me but there areso many things that have to and
like military spouse mentalhealth needs to be talked about
more because we are so not okayand we are like I always feel
like I'm like banging on theglass door and like don't forget
to get our paycheck fixed,while my husband's like running
(45:52):
around at work, like you know,with his hair on fire, like my
God, like you know what I mean,like I'm just like banging, like
don't forget to do that, but Ican't go do it because I'm not
even a freaking number.
At least he's a number.
I'm not a number I can't callin and ask about this stuff.
I can't take that off of hisplate.
But like we are not okay here,isolated, we're afraid to talk
to each other and what does thatdo to the service member?
(46:15):
It makes them when I am notokay and I've had some serious
mental breakdowns.
Especially I had postpartumdepression, like I was very
suicidal with my second kidwhile my husband was deployed.
That made his deployment anightmare, an absolute nightmare
, on top of all the othernightmares he was dealing with
in his deployment.
(46:37):
When a military spouse mentalhealth is suffering, do you
think their service member ishaving a super fun time?
No, but like we are so unseen,we're like invisible here and I
cannot say enough good thingsabout my husband's previous
command.
He was amazing.
And again I had otherpostpartum issues with my last
son and when I was not doingokay and Colonel Vega knew and
(47:01):
just told my husband leave yourfamily is the most important
thing.
Go home and take care of yourwife, go home and do this.
I felt horrible because I don'twant to be a burden to people
but I was so grateful that I hadmy husband there.
So much harder for him and itmade me push my husband to work
(47:28):
harder and do better and, youknow, support him more and that
is such a big piece that'smissing, I think.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, it's so true.
We can't function without ahealthy family at home, and our
wives often are dealing with somuch more than we can actually
like comprehend.
And caregiver fatigue is a realfrigging thing.
Anxiety, depression, ptsd andall the shit that we carry
doesn't just affect us, itbleeds off to our family.
If we're struggling, they'restruggling.
(47:58):
And if you and I've said thisbefore and I'll say it again if
you've ever heard your wife say,I feel like I'm walking on
eggshells, run to get help.
Run to get help for yourselfand then, when you're no longer
struggling, when you're nolonger drowning, get your wife
support, because what you'redealing with she's dealing with.
(48:20):
I am telling you, the worstthing that you'll ever go
through is divorce.
The worst thing you'll ever gothrough is a failure in your
family unit.
Don't put it second, don't makeit a third priority, make it
the single priority.
That's the key to your successin your military career that
nobody talks about.
If you just focus on gettinghealthy first, then getting your
(48:43):
wife healthy, and then focus onthe kids, focus on your family
unit first, your career is goingto skyrocket.
It will.
It will absolutely.
I've studied it.
I've been doing this longenough to talk with individuals.
The same positive livedexperience things that always
comes across last when I talk toa guest is when my military
(49:05):
career was at its worst, when myfamily was at its worst, when I
was struggling.
Everybody was struggling, butthe moment I prioritized my
healing, the moment Iprioritized my family and my
wife and put them first, mycareer did better.
We all need to take a knee, andyour spouse at home deserves to
take a knee too.
That's why when guys get helpand they go to treatment centers
(49:25):
and they come back home, theirspouses are justifiably angry
because you're coming back andyou're like I've got all these
skillsets, I've got mindfulness,I learned how to meditate, and
your wife's in there, exhaustedas fuck, like fuck you.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Everybody deserves Must be fucking nice, bro yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah, yeah, I totally , I totally get that and that's
basically like what my husbandand I have been like for the
last 10 years healing, becausethere was a lot of really like
(50:10):
from before military, somemental health issues that
absolutely bleeds over onto manypeople's military careers that
never get addressed, butwhenever you start addressing
them like my husband and I havesuch a good, deep relationship
right now and he has finallyfound what he wants to be when
he grows up, like he justfinished his school I'm so, so
proud of him and I'm like he'sdoing so well.
(50:34):
We've always supported eachother and we've always been
there for each other to our bestcapacity at that moment, even
when we didn't have much to give, and we've always figured it
out.
And what I can say to peoplethat have gone through that or
are going through that is youare not going to feel like you
love each other every single day, but like love is showing up
for each other every single day.
It's not, it's not a feeling,and there is no one better to
(50:57):
support you than your spouse.
It is like the most intimaterelationship you can have with
somebody, and to really, reallylean on them and trust them is
something that, if you're notgood at doing, get into therapy
and figure out how to do it soyou can make a marriage work
through a military career,because it is tricky.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
It is, but it can be the greatest journey ever.
You just have to be able towork together and view each
other as a solid team.
The team at home is moreimportant.
Sorry, again, you're going tohate me.
You're going to direct me tothe comments.
Your team at home is thegreatest asset you have and the
most important team, because atthe end of your time, when you
(51:46):
finally check out and you getthat wonderful DD2-4 team, your
platoon, the company, the ODA,everybody else is going to say
see ya, and they no longer haveyour back.
They'll be there, they'llsupport you, they'll love you.
From afar.
Might get some text threads andsome memes out of them, but
they're not your primary sourceof support.
They're not going to be there.
You're not going to be in ateam room anymore.
You're not going to be in acompany area, but you're going
to be in the house.
Earn your spot on that team.
Make that team the priority.
(52:07):
Go through fucking selectionfor them, earn their love and
respect and earn that spot.
You have to.
It's not just freely fuckinggiven.
You earn that spot every singleday, just like you did for your
Green Beret or Tambourine orwhatever specialty you have.
(52:28):
Earn that spot, earn the rightto lay your head on that pillow
and be able to look at yourspouse and say, man, like, all
right, I'm their guy, I'm theirfather, I'm their husband, like,
they want me there and I'mthere for them.
It's not going to be easy, it'sa lot of work, but it's the
greatest job, it's the greatestcalling you'll ever get.
I'm sorry, it's not themilitary, it's the family unit.
That's what we need.
We need more individuals thatcan view that as being their
(52:49):
greatest calling, because that'sthe greatest thing on earth.
That's the greatest thing wecan all hope to achieve one day
being a dad and being a husband.
And more people need tounderstand that.
And what better way to friggingend this on a on a positive
note than like understandingthat, like you've cut, you guys
came through an entire journeyjust to get to where you're at
right now and it's because youguys are solid that you're able
(53:11):
to give so much to other people.
That's what people don'trealize.
Being a nonprofit space, beingwilling to advocate for other
people and pour into everybodyelse's cup, is fucking draining.
But if you've got a goodsupport system, if you've got a
(53:31):
good family, if you've got thatsolid team at home, you can do
it all day, every day.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
I agree, I mean it's, it's something that, um, you
know we're so willing to workhard at our jobs, we're so
willing to, you know, work forthat promotion, whatever.
But our culture right now hasmade it that it's not cool to
work on your marriage.
It's not cool to and it's soweird Like our.
There's a quote about, you know, marriage being the bedrock of
our society and like we are notokay if we do not have that
(53:56):
support system.
Human beings were never meantto do life alone.
We have lived in tribes, wehave lived in commune for ever,
but yet we're alone and we'renot even turning to our spouses
Like, do the hard work.
It is so, so ugly and messy andyou know you have to.
Looking yourself in the mirrorand really examining you is
(54:16):
horrifying.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
But it's so worth it.
It really really is so worth it.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
It is.
Yeah, it's the greatest thing.
And I'll add to that don't justjump from frivolous
relationship to frivolousrelationship.
You're not going to find deep,meaningful love and satisfaction
jumping from one thing to theother, and that's why I always
tell people like be intentionalwith who you're dating, be
intentional with who you'refinding out there in the world.
If you can avoid the datingapps, do it, because, let me
(54:44):
tell you, it is one of thegreatest things when you meet
somebody and it's an authenticengagement and it's not
predicated on an algorithm.
It's not an app-based systemthat just said, yeah, fuck it,
you two are a match.
Do the hard work, find theright person, because, man,
life's better when you have thathome team.
(55:04):
That's, that's rock solid.
Yeah, it's, michelle.
I can't thank you enough forbeing here, and people want to
get in touch with you and theywant to be able to get you for
support and assistance.
Where can they go?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, you can go to our website.
Oh, real saluteorg.
We have a contact form.
You can find me on Facebook,operation Honor Rural Salute,
instagram, oh Rural Salute, oremail is michelle at OH Rural
Salute.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Awesome.
I can't thank you enough forbeing here.
If you guys are watching orlistening to this, please do me
a favor.
Pause right now.
I'll wait.
Go to the episode description.
Look at all those links.
They're great.
I now have a YouTube channelmanager.
They're going to update all thelinks so they can look usable.
They're actually clickable,because I've been fucking that
up for a while now, but nowthat's not my job anymore.
Look at me.
Look at me.
Honor Foundation.
I'm entrepreneur-ing-ing-ing.
(55:53):
I can't even spell it.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I always fuck that up .
Speaker 1 (55:56):
You're crushing it, michelle, and we're doing good.
We're doing good.
It's the Lord's work over hereat Security Halt, but it's
neither here nor there.
Now back to you.
Please click those links,please donate support and, if
you need help, swallow yourpride.
You're not alone.
Everybody needs support.
Reach out to Michelle today andshe can point you in the right
direction.
Again, michelle, thank you forbeing here.
(56:17):
Thank you for what you're doing.
This is an awesome episode.
We dove into so much man.
It was awesome.
And to all y'all listening,thank you for supporting the
show.
I'll ask you to share this witha friend, like, follow and
share across the worldwideinterwebs for us.
Thank you so much and we'll seeyou all next time.
Then take care.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
(56:40):
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom,
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Connect with us on Instagram Xor TikTok and share your
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You can also visitsecurityhawkcom for exclusive
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And remember we get throughthis together.
(57:03):
And remember we get throughthis together.
Thank you.
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent.
(00:21):
It's hosted by me, dannyCaballero.
Michelle Lang welcome.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good, how are you?
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Absolutely.
I love finding nonprofits thatare tackling the tough jobs and
tough challenges.
Now more than ever we haveveterans that are trying to push
away from the city life, tryingto get out there, live in the
country, find a slower pace oflife and come to find out.
It is hard to get resourceswhen you unplug, when you find
your peace.
So Operation Honor is awesomebeing able to find our
(00:55):
communities and being able toplug them in and make them more,
not just resilient and makingthem self-service, but finding
ways to connect them with thevaluable resources that they've
earned.
They're supposed to be able toget at any moment's notice, but
finding ways to connect themwith the valuable resources that
they've earned they're supposedto be able to get at any
moment's notice.
But before we dive into themission and the story of how you
started this nonprofit, it'simportant to understand where
(01:15):
the idea came from, because moreoften than not, it's service
members and their families thatare solving these issues.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I mean true.
And what I like to say is ourstory is not unique and that's
why it needs to be told isbecause so many people want to
feel like they are the only ones, they're alone, they're dumb,
they can't figure it out, andit's just like it's not true
we're all going through.
I mean, when you transitionfrom the military, it's just a
(01:42):
different period of growth, butyou expect to know what to do
because you've been doingmilitary life for the last
whatever 10, 15, 20 years andyou knew how to figure out the
next step.
And whenever you transition tocivilian life, it's just like,
yeah, duh, I know how to be aperson, but it really is a
different world.
And so my family.
(02:03):
We had that happen to us wheremy husband had a really bad
transition and on the outsideeverything was cool, he had a
job, we were back home in ourhome state, he had, you know,
really strong support systemwith our family, but internally
he fell apart because he nolonger had a mission, he no
longer had a purpose, he nolonger, you know, he felt like
(02:23):
he had the carpet ripped outfrom underneath of him.
He didn't get to fulfill hisduty, really.
And so how can you do that?
Whenever you're removed fromthat world?
What's the point of wasn'tenough for him.
But it didn't scratch that itch.
That military experience andthe provider that he was with
had no idea how to relate to him.
(03:08):
Our life really really fellapart.
We were on the verge of divorce.
He was not well mentally.
I mean, I was very afraid forhis life.
We eventually got it backtogether.
He signed up for a deploymentwithout telling me so.
Luckily right before then itwas all good.
Yeah, while he was away, Istarted talking to other
military spouses and veteranspouses and they were just like,
(03:31):
yeah, we had the same issuewhenever, you know, john got out
.
I couldn't find what he neededand these were like smart people
, like lawyers, educated people.
So it's not just you don't knowwhat to do.
It's an unfamiliar territoryand I found in rural areas you
don't even know who to askbecause there's probably nobody
(03:53):
there for you to even ask thequestion.
It's not like you can just goto the S1 shop and say, fix it
for me.
So what do you do?
And so we he got back in and wefound ourselves at Fort Bragg
and I was like, okay, this is areally opportune place to start
a nonprofit and make some change, and so we've been doing this
(04:16):
ever since 2021.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Wow, man, a lot of unpack right there.
So you initially transition, gothrough the identity, the
purpose, the loss of all that,and then he decides to go back
in what was.
Were you thrilled at thatdecision?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Honestly, I kind of was, because I kind of the
military life is comforting tome as a spouse.
And ask me 10 years ago if Iwould have felt the same way.
I would have been likeabsolutely not.
Because I gave up a career formy boyfriend at the time to move
to a frozen tundra that is FortDrum, remained unemployed,
(04:59):
depressed, and I was just like,what have I done?
What have I done?
But eventually the military isjust as comforting.
I knew what to expect.
I knew that we had a paycheckcoming.
You know, I knew that there'sjust so many knowns you have
with the military, even thoughthere's so many unknowns.
Everything is figureoutable inthe military.
(05:19):
But whenever you're in thecivilian world after, it's like
starting over.
It's like coming out of collegeand it's okay.
Whenever you're in the civilianworld after, it's like starting
over.
It's like coming out of collegeand it's okay whenever you're
out of college, to be eatingrice and beans and you know
making it work.
But when you're a grown adultand you're like feeling like you
just graduated high school,graduated college, and you're
like holy, like what are wegoing to do?
(05:42):
It is scary, feeling likeyou're starting over.
So for him getting back in.
I was like okay, I feel like Ican breathe a sigh of relief now
.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It's often like a reset it can be and then it's a
common story.
You get out, the transition isawful, it's shaky, it's like a
flight of nonstop turbulence andit's like wait a second, I
don't love what I'm doing.
I don't love this.
I'm just going to run back into what I know.
It's a common story.
I know so many people and ifit's not going back to active
(06:11):
duty, it's going to nationalguard getting that AGR getting
at least some sort of footinginto like what you know.
The comfort of understanding,like this is my life, this is my
world.
But it also primes you.
Just, this is my world, but italso primes you.
Just like you said, it givesyou a unique understanding of
like okay, let's study how wefailed, let's study what systems
weren't developed, what didn'tgo right, how can I take this
(06:34):
case study and make itpurposeful, make it meaningful
to help somebody else?
And it sounds like exactly whatyou did tried our best, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, I mean and and that we learned a lot of lessons
.
I always say I don't fail, justhad learning experiences from
it.
Like nothing is ever a failurefor me.
I just learn from it and moveforward.
And if you're going to fail,fail forward.
So fast yes yeah, and that'sreally what I I try to do.
I, you know my husband marriedthe right woman.
(07:04):
I'm very stubborn, I'm verydetermined and you know, when he
was in that space, I kind ofjust drug him along with me
because I'm like son of a gun.
We're going to figure this out,yeah, and I like to think that
I can be that voice for peopleto have that same determination
whenever, like, you don't haveto have it all figured out, but
you just have to keep trying andyou're going to fail a lot, but
(07:27):
if you're still trying, you'restill in the game.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yep, never quit.
It's hard to say and bring thatup to somebody that's feeling
completely lost, with no senseof direction, but you just have
to keep paddling, keep movingforward, get your bearings one
small foot forward, one smallstep forward each and every day
to get you out of that holewhich is it's uniquely tied to
that transition journey.
(07:50):
It's devastating for a lot ofpeople.
Nobody's free from that.
I don't care if you're the mostelite.
The greatest of the greattransition is going to kick you
in the ass.
It's going to be difficult.
When you were developing this,how did that?
Where did the idea come fromand how did you first start
going through like the idea of,okay, I'm going to build
something, this is my newmission?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, where we started is very different from
where we're at now.
So there's been a lot of pivotsbetween 2021 to where we're at
right now.
So when we first started, itwas like creating a database of
local help nationally, because alot of people didn't know that
(08:32):
you could, that there werecounty veteran service officers
that you could go and utilize,and not all county veteran
service officers are created thesame, and so it's there's just
it's very, very complicated todo that, but that's where we
started and we had differentcategories of help, and so we
invested in this really robusttracking system, this database
(08:56):
and, you know, had it all mappedout and it was beautiful.
You know, data's beautiful, thismap was gorgeous, but it's so
tough because you don't havecontrol over all those local
organizations.
And what I started to realizeis what I have on my map, on my
database, is a reflection of ourorganization and I could not
(09:16):
with full integrity recommendthese organizations, that
particular veteran serviceofficer, that particular veteran
service officer, withoutknowing them personally.
And so we made the switch fromthis large kind of generalized
data system database to a muchsmaller, focusing just on rural
(09:37):
and small town veteran resourcelibrary, and so I had to learn
how to build a website.
I had to learn all this stuffthat I had no idea, and my first
website was absolutely awful.
It was, it was.
I feel that pain.
(10:01):
I'm still there.
It You're the you know databasetechnician, you're everything,
and it's just like I went toschool for business management
essentially, and I have stillused about zero of that degree.
So thank God, my college haspaid off because I don't
recommend.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Zero out of five stars, folks.
Zero out of five.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Had some really fun times, but I don't know if it
was worth the price tag.
Yeah, but I mean from where westarted to where we are now.
It's much more specialized andwe focus a lot less on in-person
resources.
If you need an in-personresource, I still will guide you
and direct you to them, but I'mgoing to have a conversation
with them first before Irecommend them to you.
(10:44):
Who is on our resource librarynow?
Only people that I've had manyconversations with very good,
very trusted resources that Iknow.
Whenever you email them,whenever you ping them, whatever
they are going to respond toyou, they're going to help you
and they're going to care enoughthat if they're not the one for
you, they're going to recommendsomebody else for you.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, that's a unique approach that is often
missing.
I've rented.
You know there's nothing worsethan trying to get somebody into
care or a resource.
You click on the website, youget the phone number and it's
out of date.
No one answers.
There's nobody there, theservices aren't real anymore and
it's frustrating.
(11:24):
It's frustrating because younever know what's going to land
on that person's Google firstpage when they're reaching out
for help and they're looking forthe local area, and that is a
missing thing.
If you're listening out there,update your shit.
If you're, if you no longerprovide services, remove
yourself from from Google.
Remove, take down your website.
There are a lot of people thatare hitting these links, going
(11:45):
to dead ends, and that'sdevastating.
That's insane and it'sincredible.
It's a lot of work.
It is not an easy thing to keepup and it's a man hats off to
you that takes a lot of it'slike.
It's like being a detective,honestly.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, I liked it, like I was prepared for this
, though In college.
You know Facebook was popularand so you know our roommates.
You'd find somebody you weredancing with last night and
you're like, okay, we'reinternet detectives right now.
All right, we're going toresearch.
You found out that you lived inthose dorms.
This is your friend.
So I was.
(12:21):
We were built for this.
My, my friends and I were builtfor this.
We were internet detectivesback in the day.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being a stalker online has helped.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
More than my college degree.
I love it, so I did learn somethings in college.
It's difficult to figure out.
It's like, okay, we want tolaunch, we want to help, we want
to get out there.
How do you get your name outthere?
How do you start helping?
That's one of the difficultthings for a lot of people.
(12:50):
Everybody has the same for themost part.
A lot of us have the samejourney.
We went through something.
It was deeply difficult.
It changed us.
Now we get on the backside ofthat journey.
We're doing better.
We want to help.
How do you turn all that actionin an actual, meaningful way
and actually start doingsomething good for others?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think I mean, if you choose to go the nonprofit
route, the business route, whatI've learned is that you've just
got to humble yourself.
Okay, so the position ofauthority that you were in,
especially in the militarycommunity, where you already
have that really strong network,you might have been super cool
there, but, like starting abusiness, you have got to have
(13:35):
that proof of concept.
You've got to show that you cando the work.
So, like you were cool withyour, you know, really, really
good at your job, but now you'redoing something new, you've got
to humble yourself a little bit, put in the work and build that
trust, that collaboration, andthen people are going to want to
help you support your business.
(13:55):
Also, don't expect friends andfamily and your neighbors to
automatically support yourbusiness and don't be offended
by it Like keep working, keepshowing up, and it takes time.
There's 44,000 plus nonprofitsout there in the veteran space
right now.
It's wild.
Some people are burnt out onnonprofits.
(14:15):
Some people have been burntthemselves by nonprofits.
Some people, whatever You'vegot to keep showing up.
You've got to be humble andyou've got to do the work and
it'll get you there.
But it is a slow process.
I think that just comes down toa lot of it is remembering why
you started and being humbleenough to just continue to serve
others in that way.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, it's true, like we have to.
Everybody wants some likeimmediate success these days,
whether it's a podcast, aYouTube channel, a nonprofit, a
business.
Um, rarely.
You know.
We're not everybody's going tobe Mark Zuckerberg and that
everybody's going to have themillion dollar idea.
So, if you really truly love theprocess they tell people, fall
(14:57):
in love with the ugly parts allin love with the incredibly
difficult parts of this, thisjourney that you're in the
things that you hate the most.
If you hate the social mediaside of the house, learn to love
it.
Figure out a way to make itenjoyable.
Figure out a way to get excitedabout doing it.
It's not fun, it's the worstthing out there, but in my
experience, in my own livedexperience, that's the thing
(15:20):
that I hated and didn't want todo, and now I get paid to do it
for other people.
Um, I still think it sucks, butI found a way to understand
that, yeah, man, like you can.
You can be extremely successfulwith things that you don't
really enjoy, it's long as youyou understand that it's part of
the greater mission and findaspects of you do love.
(15:42):
I get to connect with a millionpeople on a daily basis through
several other differentbusinesses.
It's pretty awesome when itcomes to nonprofit too.
When you're helping otherpeople, that feels great, that
when you know you're connectingwith a community of people that
are able to reach out and say,hey, thank you for what you're
doing.
You helped me get X, y and Z.
(16:02):
That has to be rewarding.
And what has the outreach andthe communication been like from
the local communities thatyou're involved in helping?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So we just wrapped up our last festival in
Pennsylvania on the 10th and wedid something new with that
festival where we actuallybrought in different VA
facilities and put them underone tent.
So we actually have fourdifferent VA facilities under
this tent and we advertise.
We always bring in veteranresources to our festivals,
because I trick people intocoming to a veteran resource
(16:35):
fair.
It's like getting your kids toeat vegetables, you know, you
just got to trick them a littlebit, but we make it very, very
fun.
We have local nonprofits, wehave national nonprofits.
This year we added the VAfacilities there and so we
advertise.
You know, bring your DD-214.
If you want to get help, thisis a big deal.
(16:56):
This is your one shot to havethem in your backyard.
We brought in generators, webrought in hotspots.
We allowed them to serveveterans where they were at.
I mean, the stories from thattent alone was incredible.
I mean I had one guy come up tome and say I got more done in
(17:19):
20 minutes today than I have in30 years and I cannot thank you
enough.
Minutes today than I have in 30years and I cannot thank you
enough and it was just like.
That is incredible becausethere is so much whenever you
live in rural America.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize to go to the VA in my
hometown.
If you were to go to the VA,you're traveling at least an
hour over mountains.
Whichever VA you go to, we livein Pennsylvania You're either
(17:43):
going to West Virginia or you'regoing up north and it's not an
easy route to get there.
So if you're elderly, you'reasking somebody to take off work
to take you there.
You're waiting there for anhour or two plus the appointment
time, plus all the stuff thatgoes into it.
So it's very intimidating forpeople to want to go there and
(18:05):
even get the process started.
A lot of people in these smalltowns in rural America don't
even get themselves enrolled inbenefits of any kind because
they just they don't want tomess with it.
They're in their 50s, they needhearing aids because their job
I mean this guy's job in theMarines and his hearing is shot
(18:27):
and now his job that he has nowis getting worse and people are
making fun of him because hecan't hear.
He's a good sport about it, buthe's like yeah, I just never
wanted to fuss with it, but Ibrought these people in on a
Saturday.
So now you have an excusewhether you're a shift worker or
not.
They were there from 10 amuntil 5 pm and I had one VA
(18:53):
worker stay until 7.
So 10 to 7, no matter if youare getting off work at 3, you
were able to make that tent andbuddy they did.
They kept that VA tent busy andwe had people coming from two
hours away just to do that,because then that was a fun
thing for them to do.
It was fun to visit the VA toget their problem solved.
They could then shop localcraft vendors, veteran-owned
military spouse-owned vendorsfrom the food trucks.
Their kids could play in thebounce house and they could go
(19:14):
up the hill and watch live music.
So that was by far the mostrewarding part of that festival
is seeing people immediately getthe benefit.
Well, I mean not get thebenefits, but get enrolled in
the system that they should havebeen enrolled in from the start
.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Wow, michelle, we got to unpack this section right
now.
I didn't understand how manyveterans were reluctant to sign
up for the VA benefits.
They started engaging inface-to-face interactions and
talking Our Gulf War veterans,vietnam veterans, individuals
that served, even our currentgeneration of GWAT veterans
(19:53):
there are so many that get outand never deal with it, never
get the benefits that they'reowed because they don't want to
hassle.
Now, largely, there's thatnegative connotation with the VA
.
Some have definitely earned it.
Other facilities are completelydifferent and I understand that
.
Now I've seen the difference.
(20:15):
But there's a stigma withsigning up and getting your
benefits, no matter how easythey make.
It seem like going online,figuring stuff out online.
Everybody has this general ideathat it's just easier than ever
, and that's not true.
But we're also dealing with oldmyths and stigmas of it's
impossible and it's notimpossible.
Some can be challenging, butit's not impossible.
But some people still believethat it's just out of my reach.
(20:38):
I'm not going to bother with it, but putting together a
festival to bring providers outthere, to bring the VA out there
holy shit, break this down.
Where did this idea come from?
And, yeah, to tell us, talk usthrough this idea, because I
think that's something that weneed to be doing all around the
(21:00):
United States.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And that's our goal.
So our goal is to do abasically a state festival in
every state every year.
So our long term goal is 50festivals a year.
Every year I try really hard tomeet people where they're at
and I'm lucky to have kind oflike this unique marketing
experience for rural Americabecause of the hospital that I
(21:22):
used to work at.
My first job out of college wasthe community outreach
coordinator for our smallcritical access hospital in my
hometown, and so part of my jobwas helping to assess the
community needs and then findgrants, find programs or create
them to meet that need, and soit's like everything's like a
puzzle piece to me.
But also I'm from rural America.
(21:43):
We're a little bit salty, we'rea little bit different, we're a
little bit different.
I don't know.
We're not easy to market to,but that's part of the challenge
that I love, and so thesefestivals are born of that.
It's like how do I meet theseneeds in a way that the
community wants them met?
So I mean as a resource myself,I find veteran resource fairs
(22:08):
very boring.
You are getting the sameclientele through who are there
because they're ambitious.
They are, you know, taking ahold of their life or maybe
their command told them to bethere.
You know what I mean.
So I'm not reaching the peoplethat are just skating by because
they don't have time to show upto these things or these things
(22:30):
aren't available.
So there's a couple ofdifferent things that happen at
these festivals.
The overall goal is forveterans to come and get the
resources, but also have thecommunity understand that
there's resources available andthen see how they can better
support their veterans.
Because what happens in smalltown America is we're super
(22:50):
patriotic, right, we loveAmerica, we love our veterans.
You drive down small town USAand you see the banners hanging
on Main Street of the veteranpicture or flag or whatever, and
they say thank you for yourservice.
But that doesn't solve thesuicide problem, that doesn't
solve homelessness, that doesn'tsolve a lot of problems.
(23:11):
It's great to be thanked, butwe need something real and so
doing these festivals for theentire community, it just breaks
down barriers because now youhave the community that is able
to see what all's available.
It eliminates the intimidationfactor for civilians to reach
out to veteran serviceorganizations and it also allows
(23:33):
veterans to open up a littlebit, and there's a lot of that
happening in the aisles of thisfestival where veterans are
opening up to each other.
Civilians are kind of seeingall this happen.
And so what we do to get peoplethere is we just make it super
duper fun for kids.
And that sounds weird.
But millennials, my friends andI noticed that you know we
(23:54):
can't do anything unless itinvolves our kids, because we
don't have people to watch ourkids.
You know there's this wholething right now and so we have
to make it super fun for kids,for people to get there, for
that demographic in particularto get there.
We have, like this year, we hadbounce houses, mechanical bull
axe throwing rock wall, dcnrbrought animal pelts.
(24:17):
We have fire trucks, militaryvehicles, really, really cool
stuff, face painting, snow cones, funnel cakes, all that stuff.
But then we also have shopping.
So we have local vendors thatcome in, some civilians, a lot
of veteran-owned craft vendors,food makers, military
spouse-owned.
(24:38):
We have the veteran resourcesthat show up.
We have food trucks.
We bring in speakers.
So this year we did like a localhistorian because in our town
the Civil War came right throughthere, and so he did the
history of the Civil War inFulton County.
We had a story time from thelibrary.
We had benefits experts, we hada veteran and military spouse
(25:02):
entrepreneurship panel and thenwe have live music all day.
This year we had aveteran-owned brewery come and
do a beer garden.
So it's like it literally is afestival that we put on to get
people there to have fun andrelax and just feel supported.
But when you're walking up anddown these aisles, we have
really engaging veteran serviceorganizations that you're going
(25:24):
to want to these aisles.
We have really engaging veteranservice organizations that
you're going to want to stop andask questions to.
100% of the time those boothsare full with people asking
questions, getting the problemsolved.
I don't know.
It's really an amazingexperience to see, and I even
had some vendors this year.
That said, even if we did notsell a single thing, we would
(25:47):
100% come back just to witnesswhat we witnessed in front of
our booths, because there was somuch healing.
That happens and people don'texpect that to happen.
But whenever you're seen, Ithink you just let your guard
down and you kind ofaccidentally heal a little.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I 100% believe that A lot of times we get so bogged
down with what we're doing on aday-to-day life that we're not
connected with the support weneed from people like us with
the same lived experience, withthe same backgrounds, with the
same lived experience with thesame backgrounds.
And then you go to a festivalnot thinking that you're going
to connect and engage and havediscussions that go below that
(26:31):
first, second and third layer ofjust random engagement, and you
have a real down-to-earthdiscussion about, maybe, your
service, what you're dealingwith, what you're struggling
with, and, rather than justleave the event without engaging
anymore or getting help, youcan actually go to somebody that
can help you find an answer.
(26:52):
That's incredible, that is.
And yes, we are connected, nowmore than ever because of the
internet and social media, butit's very superficial.
This can never replaceface-to-face engagement, can
never replace having somebody bevulnerable and give you know,
(27:14):
give, give insight to whatthey're struggling with and then
in that moment literally pointthem into the right direction of
being able to sit down andaddress that issue and that's a
hundred percent needed more,more so than ever.
Now we are so divided, sodivided in the veteran space is
kind of a negative echo chamberat time, because this doesn't
(27:37):
help you actually.
You know, stop being a jerk,stop being disgruntled.
But you get in front of somelive music, you get in front of
people that care and you can sitdown and be like wow, like okay
, maybe I need to give away tothis facade of being angry and
disgruntled and just ask forhelp, because I've seen that in
person as well too.
The guy that doesn't want toget help and he's really into
(28:00):
that fake persona.
The moment someone's kindenough and says, hey, no, dude,
you can get help, today we canliterally get you to somebody a
resource.
They're like you know what?
Yeah, I'll take a gamble rightnow let's do it.
That's the best thing we can dofor people is give them the
ability to just start to processin person.
It's so hard to champion acause where it's online.
(28:21):
It really is.
Some people the youngergeneration, might, but our older
veterans still want to be ableto sit down in front of somebody
and talk.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Absolutely, especially in rural America.
I mean, I still am the type ofperson where I would rather go
into a store and talk tosomebody and get my problems
solved than have to deal withthe customer service.
Like I don't want all that.
I want to go down to the store,like even whenever I'm home I'm
going down to the local bankbecause our bank for my
(28:51):
nonprofit is in.
I'm going there in person andtalking to you face-to-face, get
my problems solved, becausethen I know that I have your
full, undivided attention.
So it is an efficiency measurefor me.
But I prefer that.
Just, being from rural America,I need to look you in the eyes,
I need to shake your hand, andthis demographic in particular.
(29:15):
Why I have such a heart forthem is like I my daddy was a
dairy farmer and we come from aline of dairy farmers.
I know what life is like inrural America and I know how
hard these people work and Iknow that they will not ask for
help, but they are the firstpeople to drop everything and
offer help and I just I want togive back to them in a way that
doesn't take their dignity.
(29:36):
You know I'm not offering ahandout to you, I'm not.
I'm just trying to offer youwhat you've already earned and
show you that it's not difficultto obtain.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, it is so true.
People have this idea that thatway of life doesn't exist
anymore, like a lot of people.
Like the day of the cowboy isnot at an end.
The day of the individual thatworks a nine to five and a blue
collar job hasn't come to an end, as much as people tend to
think.
Like people forget.
Like it's no, it's alive andwell and people are thriving.
They just need access to thebenefits they've earned.
(30:11):
Transition's not easy and manyof our veterans want to go back
home.
They want to go back to wherethey grew up.
They want to go back to thatlife, whether it's ranching,
whether it's working on a dairyfarm, whether it's working in
their family plumbinginstitution that they've built
for generations.
At a time like they want tostay in those jobs.
They want to stay in that lifeand we need to be able to market
(30:32):
to them and be able to meetthem where they're at.
That's the difficult part.
Like how do we get away fromthe?
Oh, just sign up online.
Some people don't want tofrigging.
Do that.
Like, how do we get to them?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
yeah, and it's.
It's hard work gettingresources to these areas and and
for a while it took, you know,a little buy-in from them like
trusting me to host this, butthis was our third festival
doing it and, um, you know,we've increased.
My calendar is telling me Ineed to check my sourdough right
(31:03):
now.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Sorry, you are from a rural area.
I knew it, Although these dayssourdough is pretty popular
everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I know I'm like I don't have enough to do.
I'm just going to try and keepone more living thing alive.
So we have sourdough.
I taught myself how to can.
This week I canned green beans.
I'm good Like I'm.
Laura Ingalls is what I feellike.
I'm very proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I am living this life , and here's proof.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I made my kid do some you knowchild labor.
He picked green beans with meand I said don't you complain,
this is what I, this is whatyour mother had to do.
I had to walk uphill both waysto pick these green beans when I
last year age.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
This is incredible insight because you're not just
championing from.
You know, the middle ofdowntown Raleigh.
You're not championing from acity where you're removed from
it.
You're part of it.
You're still part of thisexperience that you're
passionate about, and that'scommendable.
A lot of times people lose thatconnective tissue to who
(32:03):
they're trying to help.
It kind of gives them thatnegative connotation of like oh,
you're not from us anymore.
Like I get it, you're trying tohelp but you're not from this.
How has your life been now thatyou're?
You know you're championingthis cause, you're in it.
Do you feel that thecommunities that you're helping
find it easier to rally aroundyou to support you because
(32:25):
you're from there?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think I have automatic threat of similarity
with people Right, and that'swhere it to a lot of
corporations that try and comeinto rural america and and
(32:46):
that's why there's not a lot ofhelp.
But I I don't necessarily havethe look of rural america like.
My hair is pink, I have twonose rings, I have tattoos, like
I look not of them, but when Istart talking to them and
understand and just offerempathy, there's this similar
vibe that it's like kind of likeI think, meeting another
veteran you know out in the wild, you just get each other.
(33:09):
And so when I talk to peoplefrom rural America, we just get
each other.
And it's really funny becauseactually yesterday I had a
meeting with this guy and helives in a city now, but he grew
up in very rural Georgia and heis probably 20, 25 years older
than me, but we started talkingabout our childhood and so
similar.
(33:29):
I grew up in rural Pennsylvania, he grew up in rural Georgia,
and the things that our parentssaid to us, the experiences we
had you know, tending the landare just the way that we think,
and how we've grown since thenwas so similar.
It was just very beautiful tosee that we're really not alone.
(33:50):
Well, I say this all the time weare like in human existence,
living in a very sharedexperience, but we often feel so
alone and isolated.
It's just because we're nothaving these type of
conversations, and so we are waymore connected than what you
think.
You're not a beautifulindividual snowflake.
We're all unique, yes, but weall have very, very similar
(34:13):
experiences and that is such awonderful thing, and so, yeah, I
do think that it offers me theability to have that little bit
of trust, but I don't take thatlightly and I protect that.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's common humanity.
If most of us finallyunderstand it when we're going
through suffering and go aheadand get help, and somebody helps
us understand that oursuffering is not unique and only
connected to us or thousands,millions of people that have
gone through what we'reexperiencing or similar things,
and that understanding kind ofhelps lessen that pain, it's go.
(34:49):
I'm not a unique personsuffering this one thing by
myself, but no connected to alarger experience.
Like we, we all suffer.
We all have good days, bad days, and I will.
I will get through this thiswill dissipate.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's an important thing and there's no suffering
Olympics, like there's no kingof suffering.
You know what I mean?
That's another thing I hear islike oh, I didn't have it bad
enough to get my VA benefits.
It's like, no, we're not in arace here, buddy, you're not
going to win any medals for howlittle or how much you suffered.
You're still entitled to things.
And so I think I mean.
(35:21):
What I've learned is everybodyacts out of fear.
I think fear is like a basichuman emotion and whether you're
you're angry, you're sad, likefear is very much a controller
of our life, and if you're intouch with it, you can
understand like, oh, I was justbeing an asshole because I was
afraid.
You know what I mean.
Whereas, like, I think that'swhere that disgruntled mindset
(35:42):
comes in, especially people thatdon't want to get help.
It's just like what if I askfor help and I get rejected?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yes, man, that's a, that is such a true sentiment
that if you get somebodyvulnerable enough finally comes
out to the open.
That is, that's a hard one todeal with and it's like man,
like who hurt you?
Like what did you experience inlife that made you feel this
way?
Like no dude, like you deserveto get everything you, you, you,
(36:09):
you've earned, you served, yougave willingly for many years
and even if it wasn't many years, even if it was one or two,
like you served, you gave yourtime, gave your youth.
You deserve your benefits.
It's a hard thing to explain tosome people because maybe
they've been around a lot ofsuffering, maybe they've seen
loss, they've seen friends havelost limbs, eyesight, have been
(36:31):
deeply impacted by war, and theyrealize, oh shit, I was lucky
to make it out alive unscathed,I didn't suffer, I don't need
these benefits.
It's like, no, you do All of usEducation.
Like, no, you do All of usEducation, you've earned your
educational benefits.
Go learn a skill, go learn atrade that will make you better
in your community.
Like you've earned.
That Education is one of thehardest things to sell to,
(36:54):
because people are like, well, Iearned my GI Bill, but I don't
need to go get schools.
No dude like it can make youbetter.
It can help you live a betterlife if you use it, for you know
you don't have to go to college.
You can get you know, help withyou know, financing for you
know that skill or trade thatyou want to enhance and improve.
And those are all unique thingsthat are out there and people
(37:17):
just I've seen people and theirquality of life improve when
they're willing to bet onthemselves and that's easy.
One of the easiest ones to getpeople signed up for is your GI
benefit.
Go back.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yeah, yeah, people.
I mean, you don't have tosuffer greatly in war.
A lot of times you sacrificeyour youth for the country, like
you sacrifice the developmentof your prefrontal cortex.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we're not making decisionsthat are super awesome, like
safety briefs are real for areason, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
There's some work you've got to do and, just like
the military in general, is verypurposefully designed.
You know how you run throughboot camp and this is me as an
outsider who has no idea, butjust studying the way that
tribes have to build trust witheach other and even fraternities
(38:11):
.
It's like whenever you're in,you're in, Like I went through
this hard thing with you.
I've, you know, went throughthis trauma with you.
We're in, and then what theydon't do well is they don't
deprogram you from that comingout of the military.
And so there's this really bigmindset shift that has to happen
, but that does not happenwhenever you're getting ready to
(38:34):
transition out.
And going in.
The military is veryintentional on how they program
you to be a soldier, be a Marine, whatever, but there is no
programming how to be a civilian.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yes, yeah, we always talk about.
There's a conveyor belt systembuilt to get you in.
There's always a system to getyou to the next echelon of
service where there's aselection process.
If you want to go, become aGreen Beret and become the best
of the best, there's always aprocess.
There's always in a care foryou.
You get the best medical careon the backside.
(39:09):
Transition, I'm sorry.
Soldier for Life, program Zeroout of five stars, absolute zero
out of five stars.
It's my podcast, I guess Idon't know why.
I'm like wondering aboutcussing.
I swear all the time Dog shit,absolute, dog shit.
Swear all the time.
Dog shit, absolute, dog shit,absolute.
The worst fucking thing youcould ever do is put a star
major that never had a job,never transitioned, and put them
in charge of SFL life toprocess and help guys get to the
(39:33):
next.
It was the worst thing and it'sstill dog shit.
I don't understand why we havethis idea that it's good enough.
There should be a clearpipeline and a clear process to
help every single transitioningservice member on the outside.
But we built this reliance onnonprofits, on outside entities
(39:54):
that can help.
I'm a project of the HonorFoundation.
I don't know if they want to beassociated with that, but they
helped me and I always give thema free shout out, always
champion their cause because itdid help me.
I'm proof Look, I'm a dog shitentrepreneur, but at the end of
the day, I am doing it, it ishappening, bills are getting
paid, there's income coming in.
(40:16):
So, fuck, yeah, it's happening,but not everybody gets a chance
to go through that, noteverybody has the opportunity,
and it shouldn't be that way.
It absolutely shouldn't be thatway.
When you look at the way thatyou're structured as a nonprofit
, what are some of the avenuesthat you're excited to get
involved in?
Is transition process somethingthat you see yourself getting
(40:37):
into?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, so one of the things that I've been doing is
Fort Bragg has a the name hasjust escaped me, but it's
basically a trade school on FortBragg.
What is it called?
Home Builder, home BuildingInstitute, nice, okay, so it is
for people, and the thing thatsucks is that you have to be
like a couple weeks out fromyour ETS or have already E ETS
(41:03):
and do this.
So really to transition, well,you need one to two years.
Two years is ideal.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Thank you.
I've been saying that, thankyou.
Yeah, two years, yes.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yes, you, I mean, it takes a while to get your shit
together, really, but so I getto go in every I don't know six
weeks, two months to talk to thegraduating class, and again, it
is a little bit too late, butat least I can offer some type
of help.
Where now, like, I'm supposedto go and talk about Operation
Honor?
Right?
The first thing I ask is howmany of you have ever heard of
(41:37):
the words mental transition?
None of them raised their handbecause nobody's going in and
talking.
Like, I'm going to talk to youright now as a spouse.
You can believe me or not, butI'm going to talk to you about
the ways that you're going tofeel after you leave.
Whether you are normal or you'vehad a wonderful childhood or
you've had a wonderful armyexperience, whatever, you're
(41:58):
going to feel some type of waywhenever you leave and you need
that support system.
So now we've built thisrelationship with the people
that work there.
I said would it be okay if weoffer for spouses to come in?
Because, as a spouse, when myhusband was transitioning, going
through SFL, tap, I would haveloved to sit there and
understand what the hell we weresupposed to be doing.
(42:18):
I don't know if it would havedone much, because I'm not a fan
of SFL TAP.
I don't know if it would havedone much because I'm not a fan
of SFO tap, but at least I wouldhave had an idea.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know I would have felt included in my own life.
Absolutely.
We talk about this a lot.
The primary person that needsto be addressed and I don't care
if you drag me through thecomments, I lived it the primary
person that needs to beaddressed that they failed to
address in transition is thespouse who manages the money,
who manages the budget for thefamily, who's always leaning
(42:50):
forward on tracking everythingfor the family.
The spouse who is constantlynot addressed throughout any of
the transition programs.
The spouse I never had anunderstanding of what the fuck
was going on in my house and forthe vast majority of my career
I didn't have a fucking spouse.
And then, when I got married,even though we were dual
military, guess who understoodmore about our finances to
(43:13):
structure what we were going toand what was down the pipeline
for our family?
My wife, and nobody fuckingfocuses on it.
High achievers marry highachievers and, just like you
talked about earlier, you gaveup your career to be fully
focused on the family.
We have spouses that are driven,determined, that are kick-ass
(43:35):
individuals, that are lookingfor a mission.
Why don't we prime them for thegreatest fucking mission of
their career, which is atransition, and empower them
with the knowledge that theyneed.
Make the focal point of thetransition process the family,
not just the individual servicemember who's going to really
track that information.
Because let me tell you thatindividual is going to sit down
(43:55):
for an SFL tap brief and he'sgoing to retain probably 20%.
You get the spouse involved.
You're going to get the mostfocused individual there with a
binder, with a notebook, withtabs, ready to write down shit,
because she knows that it'simportant for dummy to go to his
freaking QTC appointments.
He's going to brain dump thatbecause he's still working, he's
still meeting the requirementsof his unit.
(44:16):
So, SFL tap and any transitionprogram, you need to make room
for the family, make room forthe spouse, have child care
available, have meals available.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
And we have programs like ASYMCA you know what I'm
like.
We have.
They provide child care, so itis is very doable.
I don't know why it's not athing yet and this is a really
controversial opinion that, Ithink, makes some people mad,
especially if like Do it, say it.
That I'm Listen.
(44:48):
It might irritate some people.
The military runs on the unpaidlabor of military spouses.
Ok, I'm so fucking.
Say it again there is so muchthat we do behind the scenes to
keep.
I try and make my husband'slike we were.
We operate as a team, onethousand percent.
(45:09):
He has.
You know, I'm the CEO.
He's a CEO, like we.
Whatever, we have dualpositions, we operating in
tandem but doing very differentthings.
And I know without me his lifeis really, really hard, because
sometimes I travel for work andhe's left trying to do
everything Whenever he's gonefor a couple months.
(45:31):
It's hard for me but there areso many things that have to and
like military spouse mentalhealth needs to be talked about
more because we are so not okayand we are like I always feel
like I'm like banging on theglass door and like don't forget
to get our paycheck fixed,while my husband's like running
(45:52):
around at work, like you know,with his hair on fire, like my
God, like you know what I mean,like I'm just like banging, like
don't forget to do that, but Ican't go do it because I'm not
even a freaking number.
At least he's a number.
I'm not a number I can't callin and ask about this stuff.
I can't take that off of hisplate.
But like we are not okay here,isolated, we're afraid to talk
to each other and what does thatdo to the service member?
(46:15):
It makes them when I am notokay and I've had some serious
mental breakdowns.
Especially I had postpartumdepression, like I was very
suicidal with my second kidwhile my husband was deployed.
That made his deployment anightmare, an absolute nightmare
, on top of all the othernightmares he was dealing with
in his deployment.
(46:37):
When a military spouse mentalhealth is suffering, do you
think their service member ishaving a super fun time?
No, but like we are so unseen,we're like invisible here and I
cannot say enough good thingsabout my husband's previous
command.
He was amazing.
And again I had otherpostpartum issues with my last
son and when I was not doingokay and Colonel Vega knew and
(47:01):
just told my husband leave yourfamily is the most important
thing.
Go home and take care of yourwife, go home and do this.
I felt horrible because I don'twant to be a burden to people
but I was so grateful that I hadmy husband there.
So much harder for him and itmade me push my husband to work
(47:28):
harder and do better and, youknow, support him more and that
is such a big piece that'smissing, I think.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, it's so true.
We can't function without ahealthy family at home, and our
wives often are dealing with somuch more than we can actually
like comprehend.
And caregiver fatigue is a realfrigging thing.
Anxiety, depression, ptsd andall the shit that we carry
doesn't just affect us, itbleeds off to our family.
If we're struggling, they'restruggling.
(47:58):
And if you and I've said thisbefore and I'll say it again if
you've ever heard your wife say,I feel like I'm walking on
eggshells, run to get help.
Run to get help for yourselfand then, when you're no longer
struggling, when you're nolonger drowning, get your wife
support, because what you'redealing with she's dealing with.
(48:20):
I am telling you, the worstthing that you'll ever go
through is divorce.
The worst thing you'll ever gothrough is a failure in your
family unit.
Don't put it second, don't makeit a third priority, make it
the single priority.
That's the key to your successin your military career that
nobody talks about.
If you just focus on gettinghealthy first, then getting your
(48:43):
wife healthy, and then focus onthe kids, focus on your family
unit first, your career is goingto skyrocket.
It will.
It will absolutely.
I've studied it.
I've been doing this longenough to talk with individuals.
The same positive livedexperience things that always
comes across last when I talk toa guest is when my military
(49:05):
career was at its worst, when myfamily was at its worst, when I
was struggling.
Everybody was struggling, butthe moment I prioritized my
healing, the moment Iprioritized my family and my
wife and put them first, mycareer did better.
We all need to take a knee, andyour spouse at home deserves to
take a knee too.
That's why when guys get helpand they go to treatment centers
(49:25):
and they come back home, theirspouses are justifiably angry
because you're coming back andyou're like I've got all these
skillsets, I've got mindfulness,I learned how to meditate, and
your wife's in there, exhaustedas fuck, like fuck you.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Everybody deserves Must be fucking nice, bro yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah, yeah, I totally , I totally get that and that's
basically like what my husbandand I have been like for the
last 10 years healing, becausethere was a lot of really like
(50:10):
from before military, somemental health issues that
absolutely bleeds over onto manypeople's military careers that
never get addressed, butwhenever you start addressing
them like my husband and I havesuch a good, deep relationship
right now and he has finallyfound what he wants to be when
he grows up, like he justfinished his school I'm so, so
proud of him and I'm like he'sdoing so well.
(50:34):
We've always supported eachother and we've always been
there for each other to our bestcapacity at that moment, even
when we didn't have much to give, and we've always figured it
out.
And what I can say to peoplethat have gone through that or
are going through that is youare not going to feel like you
love each other every single day, but like love is showing up
for each other every single day.
It's not, it's not a feeling,and there is no one better to
(50:57):
support you than your spouse.
It is like the most intimaterelationship you can have with
somebody, and to really, reallylean on them and trust them is
something that, if you're notgood at doing, get into therapy
and figure out how to do it soyou can make a marriage work
through a military career,because it is tricky.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
It is, but it can be the greatest journey ever.
You just have to be able towork together and view each
other as a solid team.
The team at home is moreimportant.
Sorry, again, you're going tohate me.
You're going to direct me tothe comments.
Your team at home is thegreatest asset you have and the
most important team, because atthe end of your time, when you
(51:46):
finally check out and you getthat wonderful DD2-4 team, your
platoon, the company, the ODA,everybody else is going to say
see ya, and they no longer haveyour back.
They'll be there, they'llsupport you, they'll love you.
From afar.
Might get some text threads andsome memes out of them, but
they're not your primary sourceof support.
They're not going to be there.
You're not going to be in ateam room anymore.
You're not going to be in acompany area, but you're going
to be in the house.
Earn your spot on that team.
Make that team the priority.
(52:07):
Go through fucking selectionfor them, earn their love and
respect and earn that spot.
You have to.
It's not just freely fuckinggiven.
You earn that spot every singleday, just like you did for your
Green Beret or Tambourine orwhatever specialty you have.
(52:28):
Earn that spot, earn the rightto lay your head on that pillow
and be able to look at yourspouse and say, man, like, all
right, I'm their guy, I'm theirfather, I'm their husband, like,
they want me there and I'mthere for them.
It's not going to be easy, it'sa lot of work, but it's the
greatest job, it's the greatestcalling you'll ever get.
I'm sorry, it's not themilitary, it's the family unit.
That's what we need.
We need more individuals thatcan view that as being their
(52:49):
greatest calling, because that'sthe greatest thing on earth.
That's the greatest thing wecan all hope to achieve one day
being a dad and being a husband.
And more people need tounderstand that.
And what better way to friggingend this on a on a positive
note than like understandingthat, like you've cut, you guys
came through an entire journeyjust to get to where you're at
right now and it's because youguys are solid that you're able
(53:11):
to give so much to other people.
That's what people don'trealize.
Being a nonprofit space, beingwilling to advocate for other
people and pour into everybodyelse's cup, is fucking draining.
But if you've got a goodsupport system, if you've got a
(53:31):
good family, if you've got thatsolid team at home, you can do
it all day, every day.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
I agree, I mean it's, it's something that, um, you
know we're so willing to workhard at our jobs, we're so
willing to, you know, work forthat promotion, whatever.
But our culture right now hasmade it that it's not cool to
work on your marriage.
It's not cool to and it's soweird Like our.
There's a quote about, you know, marriage being the bedrock of
our society and like we are notokay if we do not have that
(53:56):
support system.
Human beings were never meantto do life alone.
We have lived in tribes, wehave lived in commune for ever,
but yet we're alone and we'renot even turning to our spouses
Like, do the hard work.
It is so, so ugly and messy andyou know you have to.
Looking yourself in the mirrorand really examining you is
(54:16):
horrifying.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
But it's so worth it.
It really really is so worth it.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
It is.
Yeah, it's the greatest thing.
And I'll add to that don't justjump from frivolous
relationship to frivolousrelationship.
You're not going to find deep,meaningful love and satisfaction
jumping from one thing to theother, and that's why I always
tell people like be intentionalwith who you're dating, be
intentional with who you'refinding out there in the world.
If you can avoid the datingapps, do it, because, let me
(54:44):
tell you, it is one of thegreatest things when you meet
somebody and it's an authenticengagement and it's not
predicated on an algorithm.
It's not an app-based systemthat just said, yeah, fuck it,
you two are a match.
Do the hard work, find theright person, because, man,
life's better when you have thathome team.
(55:04):
That's, that's rock solid.
Yeah, it's, michelle.
I can't thank you enough forbeing here, and people want to
get in touch with you and theywant to be able to get you for
support and assistance.
Where can they go?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, you can go to our website.
Oh, real saluteorg.
We have a contact form.
You can find me on Facebook,operation Honor Rural Salute,
instagram, oh Rural Salute, oremail is michelle at OH Rural
Salute.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Awesome.
I can't thank you enough forbeing here.
If you guys are watching orlistening to this, please do me
a favor.
Pause right now.
I'll wait.
Go to the episode description.
Look at all those links.
They're great.
I now have a YouTube channelmanager.
They're going to update all thelinks so they can look usable.
They're actually clickable,because I've been fucking that
up for a while now, but nowthat's not my job anymore.
Look at me.
Look at me.
Honor Foundation.
I'm entrepreneur-ing-ing-ing.
(55:53):
I can't even spell it.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I always fuck that up .
Speaker 1 (55:56):
You're crushing it, michelle, and we're doing good.
We're doing good.
It's the Lord's work over hereat Security Halt, but it's
neither here nor there.
Now back to you.
Please click those links,please donate support and, if
you need help, swallow yourpride.
You're not alone.
Everybody needs support.
Reach out to Michelle today andshe can point you in the right
direction.
Again, michelle, thank you forbeing here.
(56:17):
Thank you for what you're doing.
This is an awesome episode.
We dove into so much man.
It was awesome.
And to all y'all listening,thank you for supporting the
show.
I'll ask you to share this witha friend, like, follow and
share across the worldwideinterwebs for us.
Thank you so much and we'll seeyou all next time.
Then take care.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
(56:40):
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom,
forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
Connect with us on Instagram Xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
You can also visitsecurityhawkcom for exclusive
content, resources and updates.
And remember we get throughthis together.
(57:03):
And remember we get throughthis together.
Thank you.
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