Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - Casting, Contracts, & Directors - See You at the Poddy, Richter! - An Arnold Schwarzenegger Movie Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Tape Deck Media.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to see you at the Potty Richter.
My name is Chris Chapman, and with me as always
are Aaron Frescus Hi and Joseph pet Castro. Hello, QT
puyes and today we are going to finish probably talking
about the production of A Terminator three Rise of the

(00:36):
Machines Arnold's two thousand and three.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Sci fi.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's just a tired vehicle at this point. I don't know, man, it's.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
A vehicle like burnt out, Yes, exactly, vehicle that's just
at the junk yard.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Vehicle scratch on fire, like a car on fire.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, just slowly rolling down the road with nobody in it.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
By the way, we're not well, we're sort of talking
about the movie. We're not so much talking about the movie.
It's just we've been doing this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Forever, the four Month podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
It's just one of those cars. You're like, I need
to do trunk last for my fucking Honda Civic, Like, oh, yeah,
there's our pilot of civics over there, Like yeah, fuck
buying it from the dealer.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Also, we just have a bungee cord if you'd rather
do that. Anyway, we're going to talk about production stuff today.
So I'm going to toss it over to Aaron, who's
going to talk about I think the production of the
movie at this point, since we've covered everything else that
happened in the nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
You think so, but there's a lot happened in the nineties.
It's true anyway. Anyway, we have a lot to color,
So I guess let's jump right in. So we ended
the last episode in June of two thousand and even
though Arnold had just signed out of the film, there
was still no.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
We literally finished that episode, so I like, we we've
been recording this one for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Even though he just signed under the film, there was
still a pretty essential piece of the puzzle missing, namely,
who would Andy Vajna and Mario Kassar aka the C
two crew get to replace nineteen eighty six Razzie Award
winner James Cameron as director.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Eighty six was that Piranha?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
No, that was no, this was like eighty eight. That
was Rambo First Blood Part two Worst Screenplay. He won.
Good for him. That was his first big win. By
the way, Rocky four was also nominated. Because the Razzies
are fucking stupid, YEP, anyway. But yeah, James Cameron's replacement

(02:44):
was far from the only concern they had, because there
were still a few pretty big could they, would they should?
They t have questions that still needed answers in June
of two thousand, the top three being should they be
concerned about Edward Furlong's rumored drug habit if they decided
to bring him back as John Connor? Second, would they
be able to get Linda Hamilton on board without James Cameron?

(03:05):
And then, lastly, the most urgent matter that time, could
a seventeen year old kid named Aaron ever convince a
girl to quote? Let him see that? Such a stupid song?
I swear.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
I believe the answers is no, yes, no? Or or
are they just full? To you know? I just I
just keep breaking this out like watermelon, like a Gallagher thing.
Maybe it was uh, maybe it was actually Leslie Leslie Hamilton,
Oh Hamilton, I mean looks just.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Like yeah, would you say no? No?

Speaker 5 (03:40):
No?

Speaker 4 (03:40):
No, yes?

Speaker 5 (03:40):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
I forgot the questions.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Give me a second, Okay, is the drug habit of concern? No,
that's just role research. Jesus man.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
I thought it was like, should we bring him on?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Should they be concerned, but should they bring them? Like,
should they bring I've heard for long on kay, So
what would lind and Hamilton be on board? Like are
they able to get Lynda Hamilton on board? And you
know the other thing by the way that yes, the
Jobe's close. The short answer those questions are no, sorta
and yes, but not till you're thirty three years old
and dating a meth addicted hairdresser. You may or may

(04:18):
not pull a knife on you if you ever try
breaking up with her. So I guess heads up with that.
Apparently I'm using this episode as kind of like my
John Connor giving Kyle reeseis Sarah Sarah's picture kind of moment,
just in case time travel becomes a thing. But like
in this reality, Sarah has to keep moving because she's
high on crystal meth, not because the terminator is after
So I'm also ashamed to admit that, even armed with

(04:41):
that knowledge, sevente year old Aaron still probably wouldn't let
that determine as long as there's even the slightest possibility
of seeing something.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
Fuck I mean yeah, seventeen yeah, yeah, I know, yeah,
yeah not anymore.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Okay, anyway, should probably move on to the questions actually
bringing into the movie. I guess, so back to the timeline.
But before we move on from June two thousand, I
wanted to take a quick second to check out Arnold's
contract for the film, because it is britty nuts. So.
According to a two thousand and five Slate dot com article,
Arnold's T three contract went through twenty one drafts Jesus,

(05:25):
and while most actors' contracts are around two to three
pages long at least like according to a quick Google search,
Arnold's ended up being a whopping thirty three pages long.
So I'm gonna give you guys a quick breakdown of
it because there's a few interesting inclusions. First off, he
was guaranteed a twenty nine point twenty five million payer

(05:46):
play fee, which basically just means that he gets paid
even if they don't end up making the movie. Yeah, which,
first off, I'm curious if the extra two hundred and
fifty k is included instead of or sorry, why it's
included instead of just rounding off to the nearest million.

Speaker 5 (06:03):
Like.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
The only thing I can think of is maybe he
was asking for thirty but then C two was able
to negotiate it down to like like an like seven
hundred and fifty thousand. I don't know, I have no idea.
It's just a weird random number.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
But well, I wonder if the math works out if
you have to consider like his representation as shit, Like
maybe he gets like twenty five million, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Wait, like like Arnold gets twenty five.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Million, Yeah, and then his representation is split among the
rest of his representation. Is that extra like four point
twenty five million or whatever, like that.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Sort of sag union thing.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Maybe. Also, yeah, just I realize I don't don't dick
about contracts when I was there. Also Joe Quick sports question,
any idea if sports contracts ever include those sort of
pair play guarantees, Like I'd assume they'd be different because
of the possibility of the player getting hurt.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
But yeah, so yeah, like there's situations that happened in
the past, like with the USFL and like when some USFL,
Yeah it was like a league in the eighties that
was actually like competing with the NFL, like doing a
good job. Then some fucking potato guy I'm not gonna

(07:08):
somehow became president on the team and he kind of
like basically destroy a little thing, like, wow, fucking that's
that's surprising. That guy sucks. But yeah, but there's a
lot of guys who, like Steve Young, had like a
contract and basically, you know, once a league folded, they
still had them the money because they signed the contract,
so they paid him out like it was like twenty

(07:29):
five years or something wild like that. Yeah, like a
million a year for like twenty five years. So I
guess that's that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
There's also if you got like really badly hurt or whatever,
you know, you could could retire, but then at least
with football, then you have to give some money back,
but you can stay like not retired. But even if
you're never going to play again and they don't medically
retire you, then you still got to like show up
or whatever, you know, to get your money there for support, yes,

(07:58):
or like you do rehab or whatever, like, hey, you're
still on our contract, Like no, they turn you into
the water boy.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, but I'm assuming in most in most like sports contracts,
there's something to where it says like as long as
you're healthy, I would assume.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean, if you get in like a lot
of teams have uh like insurance. You know, so if
you sign a guy for like twenty five million dollars
a year and then he like loses his leg in
a freak bass fishing accident or whatever, or now that
that might be actually part of the contract. Like some
of them have like, hey, you can't play basketball because
you might tear an ACL or whatever if you're like
a baseball player. But like you know, maybe he's fouls

(08:33):
a ball off his his nuts and then he gets
hurt or whatever and he's out for like three years,
they'll have like insurance that will pay for that because
he's not producing the thing, especially semen anyway. But yeah,

(08:53):
there's also like, uh like if you got her really bad,
like if you like lost the leg on the field
or something. I don't know how that would happen, but
you know, the team could medically retire, you need to
still be owed that money. But if you straight up retired,
you might have to give some of it back. But
football is different than baseball and basketball because they have
guaranteed contracts.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
In which baseball and basketball.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, just in football, there's like three dudes you ever
got like fully guaranteed contracts, but just because it's.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
So there's so much more like risk involved.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
It has something to do with the like union contracts
and the salary cap and signing bonuses and all this
other stuff like basketball actually has. Basketball has a lot
of weird rules with there's like a soft cap and
you can go over, but then you got to pay
luxury tax.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, Baseball does that.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Yeah, but there's no there's no like soft cap with that,
but basketball you can only go over a certain amount
and then you can like train a guy and get
like a mid level exception and all this weird shit
that I don't even fucking under stand.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
The thing you mentioned about. They can't do this. They
can't do that stuff, like it's built in the contract.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
I remember there depends on which contract. But yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
For baseball, it was a Fernando Tattoos who decided who
was like had something in his contract where he couldn't
like because he seems like he's he seems seems like
a nice dude. He just seems like he's uh I
live in the moment type of fella junior junior, yes, junior. Sorry,
this is like well like a two years ago I
think when he ended up breaking his uh I can't remember.

(10:29):
I it's pinky or something, but he was because he
was fucking he was during the off season, he went
down to where's he from. He's from the Dominican I
don't remember. But he went back home and he felt
like you think he fell off or he heard it
while he was off roading, basically like doing like our
like a TV stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Got it?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, so like and it was I guess it was
in his contract. He was supposed to do that stuff.
So I'm curious if they get someone that like, like, well,
why you for a while and they're like, yeah, this
guy's fucking reckless like.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
That step possibly, especially if you suck, you know, if
you're like way overpaid, then they'll find it and be like,
all right, your contract's avoided and I'm like, we don't
have to pay you forty five million dollars a year.
There was one where Larry Walker, uh, he was out
with like a groin injury.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Is he there?

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Larry Walker? Todd Helton, I don't know. Some dude on
the Rockies. Yeah, they're both lefties, both like good and
we played in Colorado forever.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
The only difference is one of them had a mullet.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
The other but yeah, he was like out with a
growin injury for like three months and then he was
a tving around his property and then found a dead body.
So yeah, and I'm like that's really weird, but also like, dude,
aren't you like hurt Wait just out there you hurt
growing yourse out there ATVing and.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Shit, yeah, they cannot be good for your growing Yeah, like.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
That was the part that perplexed like that a dead
body anyways, all right, so movie.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
So yeah, back to Arnold's contract, which also included a
one point six million overage fee that guaranteed him editional
one point six million for every week that shooting ran
over their nineteen week schedule. And that's not all. He
also got a one point five million perk package to
pay for quote private jets, a fully equipped gym trailer,

(12:27):
three bedroom deluxe suites on locations, round the clock, limousines,
and personal bodyguards.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Wow. Yes, that's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's not at all. He also received twenty percent of
the gross receipts from quote every market in the world,
including movie theaters, videos which I'm assuming your VHS, but DVDs,
television license licensing, in flight entertainment game licensing and so forth. Seriously,
every market possible.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
How much percent? Twenty percent?

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Yeah, holy, he's getting twenty percent of the money you're
in on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
So all that kick all that all they did kick in,
Uh not right away, but it kicked in once the
movie had reached its cash break even point, got it,
which I don't know if you guys know, but can
be used as a shady ass way for the studios
to screw actors out of money.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do all sorts of fucked up
accounting to make sure that it never reaches its break et.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Exactly, with one notable example being David Prowse, who was
the guy who played Dark Vace, was in the Dark
Vader suit for the original trilogy and made this kind
of deal with Lucasfilm for Return of the Jedi Jesus. So,
do you guys remember when they re released the original
trilogy in the mid nineties.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, I'm aware of it. I don't remember it.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, I saw it in theaters.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I think I saw the second one, the second one,
Return of the Jets whatever. Yeah, no, I saw the
second one anyway. A couple of years after the re
release of Return of the Jedi, David Prouse told Equity magazine, quote,
I get these occasional letters from Lucasfilm saying that we
regret to inform you that as Return of the Jedi

(14:14):
has never gone into profit, where we've got nothing to
send you. Now what we're talking about is and continue
to say, Now we're talking about one of the biggest
releases of all time. I don't want to look like
I'm pitching about it. But on the other hand, if
there's a pot of gold somewhere that I ought to
be having a share of, I'd like to see it.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
End quote.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
So apparently what happened was that his deal said that
he was guaranteed an ongoing percentage of Return of the
Jedi's net profits. The only problem is is that the
studio countants set stuff up so that Return of the
Jedi never actually broke even Jesus Christ and like Chris,
you were kind of saying, like I was gonna ask
you if you if you know this happens to like
a basic like super vague idea super vague.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
I don't actually know, like what the accounting practices are
that they do.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Okay, So I looked at it because I was curious.
This is also why we I didn't get very far
because I sorted to get very easily sidetracked where I'm like, oh, interesting, Okay,
So first, the studios will set up a shell company
in the movie's name, so like in the case of Terminator,
it would be something like Terminator three Incorporated. The studio
then over charges Terminator three Incorporated for pretty much every

(15:16):
single thing they're able to, which basically puts the movie
so far into the red that it'll never technically be profitable.
God makes sense. Yeah, yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
That's yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
A lot of tech companies do that to our big
companies do that to avoid pay taxes. They're like, oh, yeah,
we paid a forty seven billion to this tiny little
company in fucking Ireland or whatever, and like we didn't
make any profit.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, didn't make any money.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
But uh yeah, and so stuff like this is how
Darth Vader got burned worse than that time. I mustafar
because his contract guaranteed him a percentage of the net
profits instead of the gross You can bet arm contract
already to make this mistake. Yeah, and I'm going to
quote the article again because I'm way too dumb to
explain this, so it uses VHS and DVD sales as

(16:08):
the example, saying quote, under the standard Hollywood contract, studios
credit the film with the video royalty equal only to
twenty percent of the sales. That means that if sales
of a DVD total twenty million, only four million of
that is counted towards their reaching the break even point,
which I basically understand that kind of So if they

(16:31):
make twenty million, only four millions going towards their their like,
not even towards their like, it's towards their break even point.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, technically county, which is.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Some shady ass shit.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, Jesus, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
It goes on to say, quote, but Schwarzenegger's contract, thanks
to the ingenious lawyering of Jake Bloom, allowed for no
such evasion. In the case of DVD and video royalties.
The contract specifies four purposes of calculating cash break even.
Only adjusted gross receipts shall include one home video royalty. So,

(17:03):
unlike weaker players, Schwarzenger could count all the money taken
in from DVD and videos, which it says twenty million,
which I'm assuming that's what it was, Yeah, less their
actual cost towards reaching the threshold where he gets a
cut quote the article. The article also mentions that this
inclusion pushed back the break even point for the less
powerful talent of Turner three.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Pushed back the break even point.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, it pushed him.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Back so because it took it took more money for
them to break even, because quote unquote break even because
they had to pay Arnold all this money.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah. I guess that's all it says is they pushed
back the break even point for the less powerful talent,
specifically mentioning the writers as an example, which definitely makes sense,
and keep that in mind when we eventually get to them.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah. Yeah, things are starting to make sense.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Got it. Anyhow, there's two more parts of Orm's contract
I wanted to mention. First, it stated that he had
fun all approval of pretty much any cast and crew
he'd be working with, including the director, the main cast,
the publicist, his stand in, his stunt double, his hairdresser,
his makeup person, his personal doctor is cook, and his
driver like specific which whatever.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, I mean that makes a certain p going to
spend most of his day with exactly.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Exactly pretty much everyone he came into contact with.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but but I like the move of
not specifying the fluffer because you know, it's like a
bit of a mystery you're like.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Today.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Uh. And then lastly, which was I was mentioned before,
but for tax purposes, he had his contracts set up
so that he wasn't paid directly but was paid through
his production company, which is called Oak Productions Incorporated. So
he basically did something similar to what.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
The studios did, like dude, yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
But yeah, there and there was there was also some
stuff mentioning that the in return for them doing that
with the tax stuff, that he would he basically would
appear in anything like pretty much everything they as far
as like promoting the film like it mentioned like internet
chat rooms and stuff like that, where it was I
think he's done a few like amas on Reddit before,

(19:15):
so sure, yeah, but which I'm assuming he doesn't just
do because he's like, I mean the mood right now,
like it's probably for a movie.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, I mean sometimes he does it to hype his
own shut up or yeah, he also just reddit often.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, he does use it.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
He has his own supreddit that only he posts to.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
But oh it's it's just him.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Yeah, he's the only one that can post to it.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
And people comment on on there. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure
that's all positive.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, mostly it is.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
But you know, I'm sure I'm sure you hired some
good moderators.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, but you know, it's basically like his like Instagram account.
You know, sometimes you just like you check out this
conan sad it's pretty cool, or like, you know, look
at my check out.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Wait, what did you say, look at my donkey? I
can't remember that. I can't remember the donkey's name was Dutch, right, yeah, yeah,
their names from the movie from movies, yeah, yeah, or
his mini horse. He always it's so nice when when
there's like a community online and it's not just a

(20:23):
bunch of like the positivity outweighs the hate, like the
negativity because you're like, oh, it's pretty nice in here.
Let's see how I can fuck it up. Actually, don't
do that. But but it's it's like there's a there's
a lost page that I follow on Facebook that uh,
they're they're i'd say, like seventy five eight percent like
mostly positive, like everyone's they're also the moderators also on

(20:45):
top of ship, so if someone's a dick, they'll start
everyone will start shaming them. It's great. On the other hand,
there's a I I go in the bleak one to
read it every now and then, and apparently Mark Oppis
hates that reddit because it's so negative. That makes that's
this is why, this is why Mark doesn't come on
here anymore comments I see every now and then, which
is great, and then then bitching about He's like, hey,

(21:10):
this is why he started his own discord, which I
guess it's like a it's like an echo chamber or whatever. Anyway, Yeah,
but uh.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Or maybe he just doesn't want to constantly get shipped.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
All the time, like for that last that someone was
complaining at the San Diego show for this tour that
they didn't play Carousel, and they went into his discord
and complained about it, and I think he ended up
getting band or something like that. And then I guess
Mark commented something like, uh, just keep it positive. We
don't want all that in here, Like, but yeah, it's
just because I'm assuming if you let that go, it's

(21:40):
every single show like why don't you play this song?
Why didn't you play that song? Person?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like the fuck are you entitled to nothing?

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Exactly, which was what everyone was saying. Anyway, Yeah, okay,
that's such a.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Weird one too, Like why Carousel, I mean it's.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
That's like their first big single, right.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
They never really play anything off of chest your Cat
or Dude Ranch like ever, that's true. Yeah, yeah, so
that's that's why, because they're like, why are you playing
all the like can you play anything besides the hits?
And like why would they do that?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
That's what sels taking What are you talking about? Like
ninety percent of the people here are here for the
hits exactly.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Play play fucking Wendy Clear or.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Some shit dysentery Gary.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yeah, but anyway, anyway, that's yeah, he turned into a
different podcast.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay, anyway, it sounds like Arnold really took to heart
that thing that James Cameron told, Like at the very
end of the last episode, it was like, get your
fucking money.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, which yes, he definitely told me you're going to
do it. Yeah yeah, just make sure they pay you
a shitload of money, which he definitely did. Apparently this
uh like whole doing this, I guess, I don't know
the whole contract part of it, like with the lawyers
and whatnot, ended up costing. I think it was like
two or three million dollars, So just to like get
all this done.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
That's how you get weird numbers.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, right, but that's one hell of a contract. And
if you're wondering why the C two crew would actually
agree to any of this, it's because they basically backed
themselves into a corner.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well, it's because he is the movie.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Like yes, But so when they were looking for financing
for the film, C two had made deals with four
different distributors, Intermedia Films, Warner Brothers, Columbia, TriStar which is
now Sony, and a Tokyo based company called to Tohoe Tawa.
Those four. So they got those four and they managed
to pull together a combined total of about one hundred

(23:36):
and sixty million dollars. The only issue being that three
quarters of those deals hinged on the condition that Arnold
would star in the film, And because those three deals
accounted for one hundred and forty nine million other one
hundred and sixty million like in overall financing, Plus the
fact that they'd seemingly agree to the whole like Schwartzenegram

(23:56):
star condition before they'd actually signed him on to the film,
all this pretty much meant that Schwarzenegger had c two
Crew by the balls when it came to negotiating the contract,
like he already kind of did like just kids, it's
being like his basically his franchise. But them doing that,
there's no way he didn't know that. Yeah, of course
I'm curious what he conceded on at that point.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, exactly what exactly he came in there, and he
could have requested anything.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Seriously, Like, I'm like, it makes me really curious, like what,
I want you to kiss each other?

Speaker 2 (24:37):
And then they talked him down to twenty nine million
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
We got to twenty nine million. Yeah, yeah, for another
four million people, we don't.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Have to kiss. I am surprised the terminator wasn't smoking
a stokey in that movie.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yes, seriously true, aren't you a real butt?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
I'm sorry that's still an ten year old Johnner. Yes,
but me, you and the Fucua taught me how to
smoke a stogy to blend in better. It's like, okay, yeah,
I probably need that because you're fucking giant.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
No, no, no, put in that. I am a like
I'm powered by cigar smoke. He's like, I'm a cigar
smoke powered robot. So when he when he gets in
that fight like I with the TX, he just smelled
that story. He's like and it's like wounds close.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Up, just writes himself as bender. He runs off cigars
in Scotch.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
Just opens that valve in the middle air blows out
and that's how he like stops the TX. The cigar
smoke by one weekness.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
They had to talking about given his miniature pony. A cameo,
oh man, anyway.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
I think instead of a giant metal ball, I'll come
in writing a mini pony smoking a cigar, like, uh
five million, five million, five.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Million, okay, Like the pony is not wearing clothes, he
will be naked. Two yeah, okay, anyways.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
True, yeah, Why don't they come back riding a horse?

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Why the fuck not.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Liquid metal horse?

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Why use a horse for riding when you can eat it,
you know, like in the future. That's true. That's my
only thought, Like anyway, okay, So and saying all that,
I honestly cannot understand how these two wizards of finance
could have possibly managed a bank of Coralco when they
are making such fiscally sound decisions like these. You know,

(26:34):
I don't know Oh, I forgot to mention that Vagina
and cass Kassar also would also be paid ten million
once Arnold is officially signed onto the film.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Oh yeah cool.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
But anyway, so, uh, with just Arnold's fee, like just
with his initial fee, because he's gonna end upetting making
more than the twenty nine million, Yeah, and the C
two crew fee. The budget for termin Or three is
already at about forty million, just those two.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Anyway, moving on, we'll jump to August of two thousand,
with Variety reporting that Edward Easy Money Furlong has signed
on Tour Prizes role as John Connor. Now, did you
guys know that he'd originally signed on for it, because
I don't.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
I had no idea.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, I didn't. I did. Don't think I did before
this podcast, although at the time, I'm sure I was
more concerned about recording the scrambled like pay per viewporn
that they played on Channel ninety nine than I was
about keeping up with like Hollywood Trade magazine.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
So I had to explain to some use last weekend about.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
That to scrambled porn.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Oh yeah, the scramble You how old were they? I
don't like it in their twenties or something.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
But yeah, anyhow, how old was Edward Furlong in two thousand?

Speaker 3 (27:39):
I had it written down and then I deleted it.
I think he was twenty two?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Got it okay?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
But yeah, because he was obviously ten when Terminator came
out according to James Cameron like he I'm sure he
was actually thirteen, but James Cameron changed his age because
he has the power to to ten. Anyway. You know,
I'm pretty sure he was twenty two, but feel free'll
to check that. Uh So, Yeah, I worked for long
signed on, and I'm sure things were looking Predator on
go to this point for the C two crew. So far,

(28:05):
two thirds of Terminator two's principal cast are returning. Now.
All they had to do was get Linda Hamilton on board,
and they're golden. Although I guess it was technically only
half the principal cast when you include Robert Patrick, which
why wudn't you include Robert Patrick?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, that's true, but.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I don't know if they ever seriously talk to him
about returning, because, unless I'm mistaken, the TEA one thousand
wasn't included in Teddy Seraphie's script.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Right, no, definitely not in the one we read.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Okay, speaking of Teddy Seraphie in script. A November two
thousand IGN dot com article reported that Linda Hamilton had
announced she will not be returning as Sarah Connor for
Terminator three, and although she didn't give a reason at
the time to I would say not vastly, but two
different explanations were eventually given for why she didn't reprise

(28:49):
her role, one coming from T three director Jonathan Mostow
and the other coming from Linda Hams herself.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
So how about we first hear.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
From director Jonathan Mostow, who claimed that he had originally
planned to bring Lynda Hamilton back as Sarah Connor, but
ultimately decided it wasn't right for the story. He actually
explained his reasoning behind the decision during a two thousand
and three interview he'd do with IgM dot Com to
promote u T three, saying quote, when I signed on,
I said, Okay, I'm gonna do this movie, but there

(29:20):
here's a couple of conditions. One of them was I've
got to get Linda Hamilton. Absolutely got to have Linda Hamilton.
But as I increasingly thought about what the story should be,
I realized that the lynch pin in this movie was
John Connor because he's the guy that has changed the
most since the last movie. He was a kid and
now he's a young man, which I get what he Sorry,
this is me talking about I get what he means.

(29:41):
But the wording of that sort of makes it sound
like sarad and aged or during that tenure gap, like
possibly like if she was like granted the gift of
immortality from Arnold's dead Zeus after killing like three Terminators,
He's like throws down one of his like, uh, lightning
bolts down at the I don't know whatever he's thrown
in again, Yeah, his bar lightning bolt. Well, yeah, I

(30:02):
get what he's saying. But anyway, so yeah, he continues
by saying, quote, I thought about Sarah Connor and what
would really be different about her now than ten years earlier.
She had a huge evolution from the first movie, where
she was sort of this innocent person caught up in
a situation moving to where we sorry, moving to where
we meet. In the second movie, she's like bitter and
frustrated and angry. From T two to T three, it

(30:22):
didn't really seem like there'd be an evolution. So I
realized her characters sort of going to be kind of
a third wheel here. She's a very important character, so
I would have to be servicing her with a lot
of screen time that I can't afford to spend. So
I realized it was better to actually have her absent
than present. Yet I wanted her presence to somehow be
felt in the movie where it counted. I think it works.

(30:43):
I think it's just a right amount, just a dose
of her end quote. And first off, that last thing
you said about T three having the right amount of
Sarah is kind of strange considering she's not in the
movie at all.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, Like, we see her grave exactly, and I was
gonna make grave, by the way, that's not even where
she's really fair exactly.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
I was going to say, except they visit her at
the semar cemetery, but she's not actually there. Her coffin
was filled with guns, so unless her bones were actually
like somehow made up of guns. I don't get what
he means, which would make.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Sense that you know thematically, it kind of makes sense.
And that's her legacy, right is she just leaves behind
a bunch of fucking weapons.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
No, but that doesn't really know clearly she didn't want
to be in the movie and he had to fucking
scramble to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yes. Also, that was like I said, a word, kind
of a word, salad of a quote, which whatever, because
that's the way people actually talk, uh, And I would
normally try to sum it up just because it's I
get confused easily. But I wanted you guys to hear
the entire quote so we can compare it to the
other side of the story, because according to Linda Hamilton,
she was the one who decided she didn't want to determinator.

(31:47):
And there isn't even really any debate about which version
of this story is correct, because the Igan article that
I mentioned a minute ago announcing that she passed in
the movie was published in November of two thousand and
Jonathan Stole wasn't even hired as director until late March
of two thousand and one. Yeah, and yeah, like maybe

(32:08):
given the benefit of the doubt that he maybe they
were talking to him back in November, but at that
point they were still working with the Teddy Saraphian script
that Sarah Connor was like a big part of, right, Yeah, yeah, definitely,
because Mostow didn't end up bringing on his two new
writers out until after he was hired. Yeah, so the
timeline doesn't really work out.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
I mean to be fair, maybe the studio was like, no, no, no,
we'll get her, we'll get her, we'll we'll back up
the money truck and we'll get her, and she just
decided not to do it. I don't know. Yeah, but
like also, it just seems very clear that she's the
one who didn't want to do it. Because she didn't didn't.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Well, she's waiting for Dante's peak too. Yeah, I should
have thought of this joke earlier.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Oh no, I think because I got, think of it,
think of it because I got, I got, I got.
We're going to talk about that in a second. So
basically the timeline doesn't really work out. But we wouldn't
get a reason why. Into Hamilton decided not to return
until October two thousand and one, when she told the
UK paper The Independent quote, I read the script and
it didn't take my character in any new directions. The

(33:11):
film is really about turning the baton over to Sarah's son, John,
played by Eddie Furlong. It's Eddie's movie and Arnold's it
was like a no win situation for me, which Shrew
does sound kind of similar to something we had just tired.
Although she said this in October two thousand and one,
and Mostau's interview with Egena Winby until June of two
thousand and.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Three, so it's almost like she said that to his
face and then he said it later.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, she would later tell MTV in two thousand and
nine when they were talking about I think Terminator Salvation,
but she would tell them they offered me a part.
I read it, and I knew my character arc was
so complete in the first two and then the third one.
It is a negligible character. She died halfway through and
there was no time to mourn her. It was kind
of disposable, so I said, no, thank you.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Also, that must have been a slightly more updated script.
She doesn't die till near the end. And in the
scripture I read near the end, not not totally the end,
but see I read somewhere definitely not halfway through.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
I read somewhere else halfway too through. But I think
maybe it was referring to this article.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
So yeah, I mean, that's not a bad thing. It's
just for a movie you don't want to do. Yeah,
you know, I don't have to do anymore.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
True, it was a whole Han solo hairson florid thing,
which then he then came back, which is just my
favorite thing ever. And what is that the last one?
The last Skywalker? Or he looks like he just shut
up the set and he's like, here, do you want
to shave? I said, let's get going. We're going to
do this or not give me the goddamn best exactly, Well,
we can do your hair first.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
He's like, no, come on, that's the fucking move, like
he really need you for this scene. All right, you
got two days.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
He just looks so disheveled.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I'm not cutting my pony tail.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
He has earring into Yeah, he just got a fucking
cg it out.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Holding up butter.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
You can see his plane in the background. Fucking butter.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Got the like, wait, what what is what is dead
hand solo? Why is he waving around a lightstafer?

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Okay, man, that's all we could do.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
How hard it is c a butter out of someone's.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
Hand, or maybe he's got they just gave him, like
the Bob Doles situation where he's his hand has just
clenched the whole time, Like we.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Got rid of the butter Boss.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Not to make the sad, but they Bob do actually
had a problem, right. It wasn't like something that they
took out. No, he got shot in war. Okay, cool,
so that's why he was like holding was like wait
a second to hing his hand. That was offensive. The
whole time. He's always like a he had like a
pencil in there.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
I'm sorry, Risky, stop, Bob Doll. I think he's dead.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I don't know, but why is he holding a pencil?

Speaker 4 (36:04):
I mean that's such like a fucking power move. You're like,
oh yeah, my hands all fucked up from war, Like
it's gonna keep my pencil there. Just watch her around
with the pencil and his clenched fists.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I wonder what else they the pencil, like pez dispenser.
Just to help for the kids. Like when he's go
to the visiting kids, he's got a Pets Di spencer
Life saved.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
It's a big lollipop, just a tampon. Be like, you know,
I'm a cultured man.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
I know these things are needed, Bob Dole.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Bob Dole is a culture man.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Anyway, okay, Bob Dole, don't need this tampon, but you.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Met, okay, And uh, by the way, I get why
Jonathan Mostow gave the explanation that he did. He's because
he's out there trying to promote the movie. He's not
gonna go around telling people that the reason Linda Hamilton
didn't come back was because she didn't like the script
and then have to try to explain that it was
an older version.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Of the script.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, but that but that was that that was
in the script that ended up being on on screen.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Anyway, I just thought it was strange that he claimed
that he made the decision to write her character out.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
And I'm pretty sure he probably met with her at
least once when he was hired on as director, But
it seems like she might have wanted to move like
there's no way that they didn't like you get like
you were saying like he had to have met with her.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they had to.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Like charity past but exactly Charity passed. But yeah, I
don't know. But anyway, so it seemed like she might
have already wanted to move past that the character at
that point because She also said in that same November
two thousand IGN article quote, I spent nine years trying
to get the image of my Terminator character out of
the people's minds. I'm tired of being ever earnest and stricken,

(37:50):
which is totally fair because I think most audiences at
that time could only see her Sarah Connor. I know,
I mean I kind of do. And I was looking
through her credits on AMDB between T two and T
three and with the exception of Dante's Peak, which, for
some reason I accidentally typed his Dante's Creek at first
because it sounds so similar to Dawson's Cream.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Wait, I don't want to wait for this vulcan volcano
to go.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
They should have had the show take place on at
the baseball active volcano, just like amp Up. The drama
kept me watching.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
Yeah, in the last episode, the creek, it's actually a
creak of lava. They do it. But I don't know this,
Like I've been theracking my brain trying to come up
with the joke for Dante's Peak two, but it's basically
Joe versus the volcano joke right now, so it's about
all I can come up with.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Wait, wait Joe Dante versus Oh my.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
God, like the movie Joe Versus The Volcano with Tom Hanks.
This is Joe or the Volcano joke.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Oh yeah, oh man, that's got levels.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah, okay, but.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
It's it's like Dante's Inferno and it has different levels.
There we go. See, I'm back baby, all right, we
can move out.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
With the exception of Dante's Peak, not Creek. She also
had a few roles in some movies that I've never
heard of, but mostly did TV movies and a little
bit of voice acting, although her voice acting credits are
pretty sweet. She did uh Batman the animated series The
Newer The New Adventures of Batman won the like went
to w B or whatever? Ye Batman Beyond.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
Well, that's great show.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Who who was uh Batman Beyond?

Speaker 4 (39:48):
She was a Batman?

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah she it wasn't. It wasn't Will for Freedom, Fredell
Freedom Freedom. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
I don't know her voice in Dark Fate. I think
she took a good Batman.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Tell you Worthy.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Well, I'm only going at two voices Batman and Yoda,
so what Sorry, you can talk while I look up
who she was?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
I was just to Uh so in the New Batman
Adventures she was someone named Susan McGuire and she was
in a in a poison ivy episode. And Beyond she
was doctor Stephanie Lake, which meltdown. Oh she was hi.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
Yeah, oh I see tying it all back together.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, I was just assuming she had played the same
character in both. I was like, because they were like
technically in the same universe.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
But oh yeah, you're just would have been like four
hundred years old.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, well mister Freeze was in.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Both true, so uh yeah, so she did Batman.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Beyond was Batman.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
That's true. He's just old as hell. But yeah, so
she did Disney's Hercules, the Disney Hercules TV show, which
I never watched, but Christie rolled on to watch that
great show, right.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I caught it a couple of times, so that was
I never I didn't watch a lot of those like
movies that they turned into TV shows. I watched the
Aladdin one.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Aladdin one was was great, but maybe.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
The Little Mermaid, but the Hercules one kind of sucked.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Okay, that Aladdin one was I remember being awesome, but
I'm sure it's I'm sure there's a reason it's not
on Disney Plus right now, A.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Lot of that old shit isn't I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
But yeah, then she also did buzz Light Your Star Command.
By the way, have either of you have ever seen
Dante's Peak, Joe, I think I remember you made like
mentioned it before.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
H Yeah, but it came out around the same same
time as Volcano. Yeah, so I get them confused in
my head.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Okay, so I hold on. Is Dante's Peak the one
with Chris.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Brosnan and Linda Hamilton? I think?

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Okay, the old and the Volcano.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
The only thing I remember about that movie, and I
made this honestly, might be from Volcano. The only thing
I remember is that there's one creepy scene that fucked
me up where there they went to like some hot
springs and there was like dead There was like a
dead couple in the hot springs because they had gotten
too hot and like boiled them alive. Nice.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
That was definitely wasn't Volcano.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
The only thing I remember is there's some old lady
and she had like a cow. She want to go away,
and she tried to run into a lake to get
away from it. And it's still I thought.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
You were thinking of Twister for a second, I thought
was thinking of Lake Placid, and there's a lot of
these movies that time.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Maybe it was Lake Placid.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
I don't know that was. I'm pretty sure that was
Betty White though. In Lake Placid I think, man.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
Now because some old broad got like burnt by a lava.
Or maybe it was Firestorm with Howie Long and she's
got like a fire.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
No. No, I have a note like right here that
says man. Okay, So anyway, all remember that it came
out at the same time as Volcano with Tommily Jones.
But I only watched that one because volcanos are kind
of like, volcanos are boring, but a volcano in l
a like sign me up.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
And plus I'm a sucker for those corny ass nineties
disaster movies because they are there was a lot of them.
They are all I'm sure they weren't all good.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
But yeah, now I remember the scene you're talking about
with Lake Placid with Betty White where she would feed the.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Yeah, the alligator.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
That yeah, that's not what I was thinking of. I
think I got the cow part mixed up. But I'm
pretty sure some old broad like gets lavaed I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
The term marked out by lava or whatever melts it immolated.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah, Darth Vadered.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah yeah, all right, so Dante's Peak, which have you
seen both of them?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (43:43):
I mean it's been probably since the nineties.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Like yeah, exactly, I haven't seen him since they.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Came out, but since we had the black Box and
they would be on like HBO or whatever.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
I've seen Volcano recently because Erica had never seen it.
It was on, so I was like, actually, I'm not
gonna lie it wasn't on. I saw it on HBO Max.
This is uh entertaining.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
It's a movie.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah, most time of the Jones is just you know,
always grumpying.

Speaker 6 (44:08):
Good.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
You got Don Chidley in there.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
Yeah, And wasn't he the guy in Diehard the Computer Guide?

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I don't know, don't wait, what was that movie.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
That we're now It was an Arnold movie and we're like, oh, yeah,
you got this guy like Don Sheetle.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
If his Sheetle existed.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Then yeah, his brother Ron Cheetle. That was a racer.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Racer Yeah, thank you, speaking of giant aliators.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Okay, so yeah, before we move on, this podcast is stupid.
Before we move on, those weren't the only reason she
decided to opt out of T three. She also made
it clear in multiple interviews that James Cameron not returning

(44:57):
was also a factor, telling saying in that se MTV article,
the two thousand and nine article quote, I think Jim
was pretty clearly not going to be involved with the
third one. His partner had sold the rights to the
third one. Then they came back to Jim, but it
was so far along after the fact that he moved on,
which is weird because okay, so his partner had sold
the rights. Sorry, I didn't even think about dissecting this

(45:18):
when I was writing, because I was trying to write
it quickly. But his partner sold the third one, which
is Gail en Heard, sold the rights to Mark Sarn
to the Cralco guys, and then they came back to Jim,
which I didn't include because I was like, Hey, that's
not gonna imply it anywhere, because it just like, there's
no it doesn't end up doing it happening. But after

(45:38):
they'd already made the deal, Fox still tried to make
a deal with Vajina and Kasar, like still try to
make something happen to where they could be part of
the movie, which I'm assuming is what she's talking about.
Then they came back to Jim, but it was so
far along that after because this is all after the
stuff that we already talked about. So they tried to
make a deal like in like two thousand or something like,
but it ended up falling through because of just tributing.

(46:00):
So yeah, so Fox started having discussions with C two,
but they ended up falling through after C two brought
in outside distributors for Japan and Germany, which I guess
were the two biggest markets, so that's when they brought
in the Tauo Toho Taua and Germany was intermedia, so
once they once those markets were gone. So yeah, so

(46:20):
it ended up falling through, And I'm sure I think
that's what she might be talking about. Like and on
top of that, like at that point, if that's the case,
they'd already started working on the script. And if there's
any chance that he read that, he's like.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Fuck no, yeah, no, there's no fucking way he's got
to come.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Like yeah, but again this is all speculation because I
don't know exactly, but yeah, like what she means. But anyway,
so she continues by saying, and I wouldn't be involved
with it if it weren't for Jim Cameron. The whole franchise,
I'm as you're talking about. But the third one was
all right, but it just didn't have the heart and
excitement that Jim can bring to it. Yeah. She also
told Empire Magazine, what without Jim breathing the breadth of

(46:53):
life into the film? No, thank you? So, like, I
feel like it's a mixture of the three. I'm not like,
I think I thought this script was probably I don't know,
again speculation, Like I'm curious that what the order was,
because I think I feel like the script is probably
like the lower on the I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I think it's I think there's sort of linked in
a way that you can't really like if Cameron had
been the one making the movie, the script would have
been better, Yeah, or you know what I mean it,
Yeah exactly. Yeah, So like, yeah, the script was worse
than she wanted it to be, and Cameron wasn't doing it,
But those are very much linked to Yeah, So I'm

(47:31):
sure it was all of it put together. It's just
it didn't It's not an appealing project without Cameron on
it period.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Yeah, especially for her and especially if they're not doing
anything like he Yeah, I guess, I guess she but
he what Jonathan Mosso said was one like it's right,
like he's she has no character arc. She's just there
like I don't know, you guys read the script like
she's she's just T two.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Sarah again and she's except now she's disappointed in her son,
Like that's that's her whole thing.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Okay, Like yeah, so she has no like I don't know,
and then she dies. I'm assuming it's the terminator. The
ends with killing her, but.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
They should have got my mom for that part. It's
good about being disappointed by her and her son. Uh
sorry interrupt you.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
No, no, you're good.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
She just gets Yeah, she gets killed by the terminator,
and like I don't even think there's like was.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
She right with that? There's no like time to mourner.
It just kind of moves on.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's like right in the middle of
the action. There's no like.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
There's not even a mention of her.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
No, I mean there's mentioned, but like there's there's not
a lot of time to like focus on. It's like
a like the terminator gets away longer like like death
slash morning scene.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
Yeah, his death scene is is basically the end of
Deadfool Too.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Wait where he keeps.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Like yeah, where they keep faking it out and he's not.
He keeps like not dying.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Okay, oh gotcha that that part. Yeah, when he's laying
the kid.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, he just keeps giving more speech.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Okay, really well, no, he's not dying.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
The whole time, but like he doesn't die for a while.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
It drags on and John's all sad even know his mom's.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, he's really sad. The Determinators dead, and you know, again,
to be fair, his mom dies in the middle of
a lot of the action.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
But still I remember that happened.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Since then, He's like, yeah, she was. She died the
way she lived.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
It's exactly she would have wanted to go out on Earth.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
In a hail of gunfire.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Uh yeah, oh, now I just realized how I want
to die drinking a beer watching football so he can
be like, hey man, he died are while also beating
out at the same time.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
He died the way he lived, making everyone in his
living room uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Yeah, super Bowl party. No, I'm not too football, Like
I had two screens for football and then if I
need a third when I got my computer right there,
I also have a phone. But yeah, no, so it'd
be like he would you know, he died the way
he lived, and he also went out doing what he loved.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Okay, So anyway, Linda Hamilton's out, which is definitely a
setback considering how important she is the franchise. But they
still have Arnie and Eddie Furlong, so it's like, not
exactly the end of the world, I guess, you know,
as long as they're able to wrangle in a competent director,
thinks should work out.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah, And it definitely seems like the C two crew
were trying to pull in some like James Cameron caliber talent,
because they had a pretty solid short list of potential
directors that they were supposedly considering, including Arnold's I Am
Legend pal Ridley Scott, who ended up passing on a
Torque on Black Hawk Down, which good flick good for him,

(50:56):
probably a better choice.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, I don't feel like he's the kind of guy
who comes in and takes over the third movie in
a franchise.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, true, Well I would see that with a lot
of these, So yeah, would he have even been right
for a Terminator movie?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Though?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Aren't a lot of his movie is a bit more
on the serious side.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, I would say, So let's see what has he made.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
With the exceptions like match stick Men?

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Maybe? Yeah, what has he made that's even vaguely actiony? Really?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Oh? Black Hawk Down?

Speaker 4 (51:21):
Gnadiator?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Well, Gladiator is more of an epic. I've never seen
black Hawk Down, so I don't know how actual war
it's but it's pretty it's gritty and serious.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Right, Yeah, yeah, it's definitely serious.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Ye, not not not the Terminator couldn't be serious.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
But like, I mean, the first one was I don't
think there's.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Like a joke in there, like on purpose.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
The second one, yeah, Like the second one just was
kind of joky because of the kids. So I don't
necessarily think like Terminers need to be all jokey and
Arnold needs to be all all jokey in it and everything.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
But yeah, that's true. Maybe maybe gritty is a direction
they would have wanted to go, and I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Yeah, that would have been nice.

Speaker 4 (52:02):
Yeah, and then just have Arnold, you know, do a
couple of fucking one liners or whatever, And I have
really Scott to the action. I think that would have
been our spirit or to what we got.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Oh, I certainly think it would have been been a
movie anyways.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Sorry, okay, so okay, continuing, they also considered Rowan Emeric,
who would end up directing The Day After Tomorrow in
two thousand and four, and I think would have been
interesting considering how like epic his movies usually are.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah, I mean that just makes a lot of sense
for like a big block.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Yeah, like a mixture of Rollan Emeric and Ridley Scott
is probably perfect, like what you want.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
I'm just not sure. I'm trying to think. I'm not
sure I trust him to do anything particularly cool with
like the sci fi stuff like Independence Day.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I guess there'll be like a title wave that comes
through or something like.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
That, exactly the title wave of Robots.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
I don't think it would have been the right director.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
That last scene would have been like twenty five minutes long,
like with explosions like that, you would have seen every
city exploding anyway.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
I mean, like the first two are both fucking dark
and desperate and rolling americ. It seems like the opposite
of that.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, he also kind of seems like he'd go in
the opposite direction that Scott would. There'd be probably it
would be kind of goofy. Yeah, I feel like yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Anyway, Okay, So there was also convicted fellon John McTiernan,
who had previously directed Arnold twice in both Predator and
Last Action Hero. What And apparently.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I was gonna ask what else he had done since Diehard? Right,
Diehard was laid Diehard?

Speaker 3 (53:38):
He did Last Section Hero. I think he did the
Last Boys scatter? Is that Shane Shane Oh.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
No, I don't think Shane Black directed that. I think
you're right. I think mctwernan did that Last Boys Come Yeah,
and Shane Black might have written it, but I'm not sure.
Okay anyway, sorry.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Uh So, Yeah, apparently Andy Vajna supposedly visited him on
the set of Rollerball to discuss directing T three, And
I don't have a definitive reason as to why he
didn't wind up as T three's director, but I'm assuming
it's probably It probably had something to do with that
whole illegal wire tapping hobby he had going on at

(54:17):
the time. Yeah, which you hear more about that in
our production episode for Predator. It's good stuff and stupid,
very stupid. There was such a strange movie.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
He also did The Thomas Crown Affair and Diehard with
a Vengeance.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Okay, so I did.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
One in three, a couple more, Hunt for Red, October
Medicine Man, Wow, Thirteenth Warrior, which want to.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
That's yeah, that Antonio Bender is Crusades movie.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
And Basic, which is two thousand and three, so I
think he.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
That was which one's Basic was that Anthony Hopkins.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
It's John Chivalta and Samuel Okay Jackson. But the DEA
agent's name is Tom Hardy. But Tom Hardy is not
in it, so maybe you can understand what people are saying.
But he hasn't He hasn't directed a movie since that one,
so he probably would not have directed that if he did.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
If he did, what year was, uh was Basic two
thousand and three?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (55:20):
Three?

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Okay, so that's probably why. But I'm sure, like I
don't know, Well, no, he didn't end up going to
uh to prison. I think it was like two thousand
and seven or nine or something like that, but something
like that. Anyhow, I feel like that I think that
seems like a perfectly sure, like as a director, yeah,
like both and the last section.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Hero like yeah, he gets it.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
But anyway, okay. There was also a Christian do guray,
do guray. It's d u g u a y. I
don't know anyway who's only directing credits I really recognized
were The Art of War with Wesley Snipes, which was
released in two thousand. Did you watch that?

Speaker 2 (55:59):
No? Okay, I remember, No, I'm thinking of a different movie.
There's a movie that's just called war, that's.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Just uh jetly And then nineteen ninety nine Joan of
Arc television mini series starring Leelee Sobieski. But yeah, oh yeah,
the majority of his credits are TV movies in like
mini series. Got it anyway? I also saw my Michael
Bay mentioned, but I was only able to find that

(56:26):
as part of a ScreenRant dot com listicle, and it
wasn't sourced, so I don't know if I'd trust that one.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Got it?

Speaker 3 (56:32):
And I was actually uh looking stuff up for Kindergarten
cop the other night and came across a ten things
you Never Knew about the movie type article from screen Rant,
and every single entry they did have a citation, like
a hyperlink or whatever. But every single one of them
hyperlinked or linked to the Kindergarten cop IMDb trivia page,

(56:54):
which any dupis with an email address can can and
we'll add to like.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Because can will and regularly does add to.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
But added to a man IMDb trivia and there was
an interview with Paul Rudd with a New York Times
calumnist named Tom and Riddle and I changed it to
Voldemort and IMDb accepted it. So good job with that
bang up article research screen rant anyway, Sorry, Okay, So
the last two were One of them was David Fincher,
who was coming off a Fight Club in ninety nine,
and it looks like he decided to do two thousand

(57:25):
and three's Panic Room instead, although I have a feeling
he might have been kind of hesitant, like if they
actually did talk to him about getting involved with another
big budget action franchise after the negative experience he had
on Alien three.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah, I'm sure that would have gone pretty much the same.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
I think he had a little more cloud like at
this point because he did Fight Club, which I'll maybe
I'm pretty sure that bombs, so it didn't do well
until like DVD maybe.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
But also I think that the studio probably would have
been pretty protective over what they wanted to do with Terminator.
Oh yeah, they expect Terminator to make a lot of money.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Yeah, I mean he did seven.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
For other Yeah, yes, he did seven as well, so
he definitely has more clout. But yeah, I don't know
which again would have been. I don't know Dark at least.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Then lastly, it was Angle who decided to do the
two thousand and three version of The Hulk starring Eric
Banna instead the Australian guy instead.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
That always used to confuse the shit out of me,
because Banna just sounds like Australian for Banner, Bruce Banner,
Eric Banna, Eric Banna. I was like, did they change
his name? What the fuck is happening? I was dumb.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
He actually had a pretty solid reason for passing on
three T three, telling the New York Times two thousand
and three interview quote, I chose this over Terminator three
because T three's history becomes an obligation. That history feels
like baggage to me. I was reading T three and
wondering what I could do to make it different. But
there's a certain tradition you have to obey, Like attracting
young male audiences on quote. But he's I mean, he

(59:01):
ain't wrong.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yeah, I think it's funny that he said that, But
instead I went to go do this other thing that
had about thirty more years of history.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Well, okay, so I was gonna say. Yeah. He basically
also says that he knows the Hulk obviously has its
own long history as well, but the fact that there
had never been a Hulk movie up to that point
meant that he could kind of play with and Plus,
like comic book movies were newer at the time, so
he can kind of with the genre a little bit,
so he had a little more I'd say, you definitely
had a little more freedom, especially because I'm assuming that well,

(59:31):
I know that Mario Cassar and Andrew Vagina like had
things that they wanted in the movie.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Yeah, but yeah, David Ventcher also had the Game in there.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Did I not say that?

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I don't think you mentioned the game, but I don't
know if I don't know if that one did well.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Though, oh yes it did, because I looked that up
to day it didn't.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Cool, But yeah, as far as saying any a new
term in a movie, would would definitely come with a
lot of expectations, especially in like summer of two thousand,
when the franchise was two for two of the play
at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
And by the way, he also mentioned that The Hulk
was never screen tested with an audience really, which it
kind of explains a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Yeah, that kind of makes sense because they probably wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Tighten that up a little bit. Yeah, I haven't seen
it in a long time, but I remember it being
kind of slow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It definitely there was a lot of like I mean, granted,
it's the Hulk is a hard character to do because
it's a lot of CG especially for the time, but yeah,
there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of downtime
and a lot of people talking.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Yeah, I think I watched it in theaters. I'm not
sure if i've seen it since then. I do want
to revisit it, and just like, yeah, I'd like to
watch that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
We rented it at the Joe. We rent it at
the Big House because that's where I watched it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Ah, Okay, well I seen it twice, so that was
twenty one years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
But what did you guys do time for.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Like a year and a half or so on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
He also mentioned that he was curious if he could
make it an art film, like a comic book thing.
So yeah, like something be seen that you kind of see.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
He was trying to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Yeah, so their search ends in search for director ends
in March two thousand and one, when Jonathan Mostow signs
on as director. That's a horrible sentence. But and unlike
the screenwriters that SEE two brought on to write the
original script, Jonathan Mostow actually had a pretty solid resume
leading up to T three, so he directed a few
smaller projects before breaking out with a nineteen ninety seven
film Breakdown, which was a thriller starring Kurt Russell that

(01:01:29):
Mostow actually he co wrote that as well. And neither
of you have seen that, right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
No, no, But like I think we've talked about it
before on this podcas yest we have, even though we
didn't like, weren't talking about any of this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Yeah, which I uh, I mean, we're gonna this. This
is gonna get broken up into like forty episodes, so
you guys shall watch it some time before or DOUBLET three.
But anyway, so okay, So the basic plot is Kurt
Russell and his wife are moving across country when their
car breaks down the end, no wow, car breaks down. Basically,

(01:02:05):
the car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, in
like a more desert part of what looked like Arizona, Utah.
So his wife ends up disappearing. He spends most of
the movies searching for her and pretty much everyone he
meets while trying to find her. It just seems sketchy
as fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, but it's like the world is trying to gaslight
him into thinking he never had.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
A wife kind of. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a lot
better than it's like that description makes it sound. But
yet it's definitely one of the better of those like
suspense like slash thrillers that were popular in the nineties.
I also read a little trivia tidbit about the movie
that Joe would probably appreciate. I guess he was actually
originally supposed to be an adaptation of a Stephen King

(01:02:45):
short story titled Trucks, which had already been adapted once
in the eighties as Maximum Overdrive, which I haven't seen,
but supposed to be really badly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Yeah, he directed that one.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Yes, he did direct that one. Did you watch it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Well him and cocaine.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Yeah, I haven't watched it, but yeah, that's what I
heard about it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
I have. Actually, there's I.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Mean, there's so many adaptations of his stuff, Like, yeah,
I've seen a fair number, but I've written way more,
written read way more of his books than I've seen
of his stuff. Yeah, so I probably have read this one.
I'm just trying to trucks as far because it's in

(01:03:28):
it's in night Shift, which is a collection of short
stories which I've read.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Is it just about thinking shift with trucks? I'm pretty
sure it's like a meteor storm brings all the electronics
on earth to life.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Oh yeah, because it isn't like spitting, like telling someone
to fuck off like in I think in Maximum Overdrive.
That's a scene it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I've never seen the movie or I should. I've seen
like five minutes of the movie, but like I read
about it one time, but I think it's something you'd
like that like a meteor storm brings.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
I swear there was a scene where like this guy's
trying to get money of the ATM and it tells
him to go fuck himself or something like that, like
like that meteor like like drunken frat boys.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
Yeah, it seems like something happens that brings the trucks
to life.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
So okay, it's pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
So then what's the difference between that and what happens
in Christine? Like, isn't that just the same thing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
But it's one car.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
Yeah, that's like a like a haunted car. I haven't
actually read that one or seen the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
So it's a car possessed by the devil, really, I
think so? Or it's the Aaron. What happens to Christine?
Where where does Christine come from? I mean, how does
Christine come to life like this a ghost? Like was

(01:04:58):
somebody murdered?

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Yeah? Okay, so just the Futurama episode.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Is that's a fucking wear car moron?

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
Okay, idiot, Sorry, my mistake.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
That's one where he transforms into a car because he's
get bit by another wear car.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
So how does the why does never mind? What does
the what is the car goes to decide to move on?
Like or does it just kill enough people towards Why
is it killing people?

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
And Christine? Yeah, it's just evil, but I don't think
it decides to move on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
They beat it?

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Oh okay the car, Yeah, they fucked the car up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Okay, it doesn't just it doesn't just.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Kill eight people and then be like, well, I guess my,
that's all my unfinished business on to heaven. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
I wanted to kill it the people before it died,
and now that I have like to move on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Had to kill a round number.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
Okay really ship year Lee Smith is in Maximum Overdrive.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Is she?

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
That's crazy?

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Now I got to watch this probably the same age
as she always looks too, Yeah, she always looked the
same age.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
A CDC did the music.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Yes, Uh, Jonathan Mostow actually mentioned that the Maximovil Drive bombed,
but a c that soundtrack was super huge apparently. Oh
really yeah, because of a c DC got it anyway,
So uh, I guess Jonathan Mostow spent a year developing
uh Trucks, Stephen King's Trucks for Dela rent as a

(01:06:30):
production company. Uh huh, but well we're gonnay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
That's like probably the one thing Stephen King did right
was changed the name of the fucking story to Maximum
called Trucks.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Yes, so Dinal Deliverance is the one that originally made
it so and he still had the rights to it,
so yeah, his production company and then they found out
They eventually found out that they wouldn't be able to
use Stephen King's name in the title. Probably enough you
wouldn't let him. I don't know why. Weird because they
were going to they were gonna call it Stephen King's Trucks,

(01:07:03):
which just sounds like a horror themed version of the
Jay Leno's Groage Show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Doesn't know, it just sounds like a documentary.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Like it's like like you know, he's got like like
Steven Steve, like jaylenele gets like muscle car. Stephen King
has a bunch of like hurst like old hursts and
stuff like yeah, or obviously trucks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Like it's just the exact same show, except the theme
songs like spooky.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
It's a theme song from from the Monsters the Monster. Yeah,
I was gonna say a fucking crip keeper one tells
from the anyway, it's probably better, Okay, So, uh, Jonathan
Mostow or Johnny Moss as he's known around my place.
So that financing dried up once they weren't able to
use Stephen King's name. Telling metagraph dot Com quote, I

(01:07:47):
was like, oh crap. I spent a year on this.
I've developed the script I've scattered locations for the movie
with trucks out in the middle of the desert, and
so in a sort of desperate hail Mary to save
the day, I was like, what could I do? I
know he's locations and I've got trucks on my brain.
So I spontaneously came up with the idea for a breakdown,
wrote this script on spec, brought it to Dino, and

(01:08:09):
Dino was like, okay, great, we'll make this, and it
rolled from there and good for him unquote, but good
for him, partly for turning, you know, the bad situation
to win, but mostly for resisting the urge to imitate
Dino DeLaurentis at his accent like Arnold does in his book.
You know, he wasn't like, oh, okay, great, do you
make these? You know, like something like that, because do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
You guys ever have that problem where you meet somebody
with a really distinct accent and it actually becomes very
difficult to not imitate them.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Oh yeah, I've done that. I did that in when
I lived in Santa Barbara. I was hanging anyway the
Santa Barbara. I was hanging out with some Irish people
and I started doing their accent, and I figured out
then I realized that they didn't care, and so I
just went full like for along with it because they
were as drunk as I was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
But I don't think I've ever done it in front
of somebody. But it's really hard for me. Not too
sometimes except one except when I went to Hawaii to
visit my family.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
And then that's such a great like it's so like,
was it dialect or whatever. It's not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
That's the thing. I'm not using any of the slang,
but I start to pick up just like the rhythms
and the way they like. It's just like the intonation
of the sentences, and I'm like, I like catch myself
doing it, and I'm like, I gotta fucking stop that
right now. Look like a fucking chubby, little white kid
saying trying to act like I know how to speak Hawaiian.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Yeah, uh okay, oh yeah so uh. He also makes
sure to clarify good. He also makes sure to clarify
that Breakdown is its own story and has nothing to
do with maximum Maximum would drive or trucks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Yeah, I mean there's trucks in the movie, Like there's
a truck.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Yeah. So Breakdown ends up being a box office hit
and actually has an eighty three percent Fresh Tomato Fresh
rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which you know, you guys, you
gotta check it out. It's a good movie. Anyway. His
next movie, titled U five seven one, was a World
War II submarine thriller starring Matthew McConaughey, Bill Paxton, and

(01:10:01):
some French singer named Apologies if I pronounce this wrong. Jean.
I think that's I think, at least I think it's
French Jean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah he was uh Rock.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, I saw that name on there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Yeah No, never heard of him. Sorry John, or to you,
to you Americans, John.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Bon Jovi, Sorry to the uncultured.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Yeah. Anyway. It's as the supposedly true story of a
group of American soldiers that poses Nazis in order to
infiltrate a German submarine and still their Enigma cipher machine,
with my favorite singing being when Matthew McConaughey's team first
attempts to board the Nazi submarine, but the Germans that
are already on board the sub are all suspicious of them,
so the Nazi commander begins questioning if they're actually like

(01:10:52):
of German descent, and without missing a beat, McConaughey is like,
jaw all white, all white, all white white, while motioning
to his men. You know, such a tense scene. I
get another one. I can do this, we can do this.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Yeah, goddamn.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
Moving on from that joke, apparently that was like all
British dudes, Oh yeah, the actors, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
All the German dudes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
No, no, I'll get to just ash. So the movie
ended up doing pretty well at the box office. It
didn't do as well critically as Breakdown did, but it
still as a sixty eight percent fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
So all right, yeah, but yeah, two quick things first, uh,
Jonathan Austown. Pretty much everyone involved got a ton of
shit during its release due to the fact that, yeah,

(01:11:44):
it was a true story, but it was actually the
British Royal Navy, like a British Royal Navy operation, not American.
British people were not happy about it, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
Yeah, two things. British people are never happy. In the second,
why do you want to watch a bunch of British
people do so?

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Yeah, what British actor is going to stand up to
fucking Matthew McConaughey, come.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
On, Benedict Cumberbatch, come on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I can't think I was what twelve at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Yeah, but Hugh Grant, Oh, like you know, mister Grummans,
could I.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Like to get your uh I get.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
Your Enigma machine?

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Please?

Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
Like no one wants to no one fucking sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
We gotta stop Joe now before he gets really racist
against the British.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Yeah, I got nothing. I don't know. They just weren't happy,
like their parliament ended up making a big deal about.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
It, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
And Jonathan Mostow said in an interview that I read
that the UK version of Good Morning America wanted him
to come on there and debate Tony Blair about the
Prime Minister Tony Blair about Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
They got like why did they care so much?

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
I say, is that British people?

Speaker 4 (01:12:52):
Yeah, sounds like it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Yeah, yeah, definitely Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
The second thing worth mentioning about the movie is that
U five seven one is the suposedly the film that
helped Jonathan Mostow get the job directing T three, with
Arnold telling sci Fi Wire in two thousand and two
after being asked he was I'm pretty sure this was
the same interview, where as the one where he's like,
there's nothing here really, So yeah, the Sci Fi Wire

(01:13:17):
asks him in two thousand and two, they're asking him
about Jim Cameron, and he says, quote, first of all,
Cameron was not interested in doing the movie because he
felt like he does not want to tie himself down
to any time schedule period on any movie. So the
next thing was, let's find someone that is young and
that it has this young spirit of new ideals and
all that. And when we saw the submarine movie Jonathan
did U five seven one, we felt that he had

(01:13:39):
the kind of talent and patience and know how to
work with special effects, visual effects and all that. He's
been extremely good at prepping the movie and we're reworking
the script unquote. Okay, So I asked you both to
watch U five seven one. Did you guys get a
chance to watch it? Yeah, yep, okay, And it's been
a while. What would you guys think of the movie?

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Joe, I enjoyed it.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
It was the perfectly cromulent movie. Like you know, I
kind of left my brain, I guess not much after.
I think that that type of movie would have worked
well with like a like the Terminator one script, you
know much kind of a.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Oh like the like the tone. Yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
Dan O'Brien formally have cracked said there is a type
of movie that is a Diehard, which is like a
man in a bad situation. You know, he's just got
to kind of rely on like stuff that's around him
and all that kind of a diver's way through it
or whatever. And like Diehard two is not a is
not a Diehard, but Diehard three is even though they're

(01:14:44):
like out in the open. But Terminator one is like, uh,
it's kind of bleak and tense, you know, and it
seems very confined because the machine's always coming at him
and you five or seven to one or whatever five
two seven, Yeah, okay, you know that was like very

(01:15:05):
tense and like, uh, you know, it's like in tight cords.
It fucking takes away as a submarine. So you know,
it's not kind of more of a big broad action
action movie like you would think of like Terminator two
for instance, or fuck even Diehard too. So I think
if they had a script more like Terminator one than
they did for Terminator three, uh, that might have been

(01:15:29):
better for him. But I remember that movie also being
pretty bright, and I think that's a problem with basically
every which Terminator movies. Yeah, every Terminator movie since after
T two. It's like it's too too bright and shiny.
Even the movie called Dark Fate it was too bright,

(01:15:49):
Like it didn't seem dark in both the like the
the lighting and the setting and just kind of like
the dreary feeling about it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
By the way, sorry quick quick, I think like trivia thing,
I'm pretty sure that Diehard two wasn't originally supposed to
be a die Hard movie, but they wanted to make
a Diehard Busted sequel, and so they took someone's script
and turned it into Diehard Too, So that might be
I'm like pretty sure that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
I'm almost certain that that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Yeah, so that would be why that's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Why it's not. It was just like, yeah, Bruce Willis
could do this.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Too, what about you, Chris?

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Yeah? I like the movie all right. I felt like
the first half was kind of boring, and then the
second half where they actually do all like the submarine
stuff that's like more interesting to look at and more
more tense, that was definitely a lot better. Like all
the stuff where they have to they kind of have
to figure out how to get shipped back together after
everything goes wrong. That shit was way more interesting. It

(01:16:51):
was just the first stiff that I was like. Also,
the first half felt kind of and and I totally
understand why, especially given when it was made, but the
first half felt kind of very like raw, raw America,
almost jingoistic, like the very beginning of it. As far
as like again, like nothing really clicked about why you

(01:17:15):
would get this guy to make a terminator until you
literally just said, like he knows how to handle like
visual effects and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but that's that's what I'm saying, is like, oh yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. He had to work
with like the submarine, the submarine set where everything was
fucking wet and falling apart and there was a lot

(01:17:37):
of sound design to it and all that stuff, and
then the like the water stuff where they were boarding
the submarine, which water is notoriously difficult to deal with
and hard to film in. Oh yeah, yeah, specifically because
it's wet. Yes, yeah, just makes everything slippery. But yeah,
that makes a ton of sense to me that they

(01:17:58):
saw that movie and they were like this guy can
do like visual stuff. This guy can't get us. Yeah,
this guy can get us an action movie, and he
can clearly handle like the budget and everything and know
how to use it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Well, that makes having said that he yeah, the practical
stuff true, but the special he also mentions the special
effects and there I don't know, I don't remember, like
it's been a wat since I've watched these five seven one,
but I don't remember a lot of like, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I don't think he was in there, ton. I bet
you you know there was all the shots where you
actually were underwater with this up. Yeah, I bet you
all that show was CGI. I bet you some of
the explosions were CGI, especially the part where they were
like fighting the battleship.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Yeah, which I'm not knocking like T three because they're
they're that Uh I know, I'm sure I shit on
the the crane scene, but that it looked good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
So no, yeah, we talked about how that was pretty
good looking.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Yeah, actually it looks good. Yeah. Uh so okay, so uh,
after watching both you five seven one and Breakdown, I think, uh,
like what Joe said, T three might have actually fared
a little better if it had leaned a bit more
into the tone of the first Terminator instead of the
Terminator too, like, instead of instead of T two like
it like basically just readed writing with Joe said would

(01:19:10):
which was Jonathan Mostouse. He obviously excels at like suspense
or like thrillers or whatever, and I bet he would.
He probably would have done a bang up job directing
like a T three film that's a little more tonally.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
Like te uh, desperation, I think is it word I've
been looking for, Like it feels just desperate, just like
the first two did well.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
First that describes the first one for movies, Yeah, exactly,
like break definitely break down because he's like freaking out
the whole time and you five seven one. But uh,
and I'd say more T one than T two, right, like,
oh yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:19:46):
Way more desperate. I think a lot of that kind
of feeling comes from from Sarah in the second one.
Like the first one, yeah, you're just you're you know,
you're along with the characters and you're feeling like desperate
there and it's just situation. But like in the second one,
John's like, hey, cool terminator and then like Sarah's just

(01:20:07):
like what the fuck? Like I thought, we what the shit?
You know, and like you remember she's like eating that
burger at one point, like food's hanging on her mouth
and shit like her like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
Her is drunk.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
That's but you know, she, like I mean, she fucking
Lenda Hamilton brought it for, like all that, all that
feeling of just being like fucking scared and strong and
worrying about humanity and like her son and having to
trust this fucking machine who looks exactly like the dude

(01:20:41):
they tried to kill her seven years ago, but seven
years older or whatever. Wait, no, I'm sorry ten years
technically whatever tried to kill her ten years ago but
looks seven years older.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Weird, but ten years more fashionable, that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
Uh yeah, so there's that and like you know, teeth,
Like John's like, oh yeah, you know, like like it
was like the opposite with like Sarah Connor when she's
like the fuck dorminators are bad.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Goddamn.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
Yeah, John's like, what are you doing here?

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yeah, sh exactly. But I just like compare the scene
where Sarah in the the hospital first sees terminator and
she's literally like trying to crawl away in desperation. Yeah,
as John Connor, and the in T three is just like,
oh shit, I haven't seen you in forever.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Oh shit, what's up uncle Bob. Well, on top of that,
it's like as as far as the desperation stuff. It
also helped that for the first one that they were
going up against the terminator, whereas in the second one
they actually had a terminator with them kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Like yeah, that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Like like the first one, you, I mean, obviously it's
gonna work out, but you kind of thinking like, oh shit,
they might not. They might not work out, like there's
a there's like an unkillable machine. But in the second
they got like.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
It didn't fese spoilers, yes, true, Well no, he he
had sex.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
So I was about to say he fulfilled his life stream.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
Yeah, fulfilled something.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Okay, moving on. Also, keep in mind that pretty much
every director that ended up passing on T three was
probably given the original Teddy Saraphian script, and I didn't
read it, so I'm not sure if that's a good
thing or a bad thing. But also, Linda Hamilton had
passed on T three in November of two thousand, and

(01:22:33):
they didn't hire Jonathan Mostown until March of two thousand
and one, and he had to come in knowing that
the script needed to be rewritten now that they no
longer had Sarah Connor. Yeah, and I'm curious if any
of the other potential directors that C two spoke with
before signing Mostole were told that Linda Hams is out,
So the movie technically doesn't really have like a script,

(01:22:56):
like any sort of working script. Yeah, because that would
have like that. That's definitely like a no thanks, because
like on top of like the pressure of like continuing
that franchise, you're just basically starting things off by like
in a hole, like digging yourself out of a hole. Yeah, yeah,
all right, and that's gonna do it for this episode.
But I swear we're almost done with what's starting to

(01:23:17):
seem like our twenty six part series on Terminator three.
We'll be back next week to finish up casting by
finally finding out what happened to Edward Furlong and which
now famous actor had originally been cast in a lead
role but was let go after only a week of filming.
We'll also discuss one of the writer's ill advised blog
posts that may shed some insight into a few of

(01:23:39):
t three's problems. Also, don't forget to rate and review
us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, because that seriously helps
out so much. But yeah, I guess. Thanks so much
for listening and we'll see you lovely people next week.

Speaker 6 (01:23:50):
See If you enjoy our show, please consider giving us
a positive review on Apple Podcasts or your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
App of choice.

Speaker 6 (01:23:59):
You could follow us on on Twitter and Instagram at
the potty Richter to make sure you never miss an episode.
See you at the Potty Richter is a production of
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Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
This has been a tape Deck Media production. Thank you
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Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - Casting, Contracts, & Directors

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - Casting, Contracts, & Directors