December 11, 2023 • 24 mins
Empowering Communities through Credit Union Leadership:
Michelle Dwyer's Journey
Dive into the inspiring world of credit union leadership with Michelle Dwyer, President and CEO of Franklin First Federal Credit Union, in this enlightening episode of the SEE YOU LEAD Podcast.
Join host Glynn Frechette at the APEX 2023 conference for an insightful discussion with Michelle about her remarkable journey from a temporary teller to an influential CEO.
Michelle shares her perspective on the unique challenges and opportunities within the credit union industry, particularly highlighting her innovative approaches to community engagement and financial inclusion.
This episode also explores the critical role of credit unions in nurturing community welfare and involvement, especially through programs for young members and collaboration with local nonprofits. Listen to Michelle's story and gain valuable insights into how credit union leaders are shaping financial landscapes and community development.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Glynn (00:01):
Welcome to another episode of CU Lead, sponsored by
NetGiver, the app and platformthat enables donors and
nonprofits to give and receiveon a no fee basis.
On this podcast, we featurecredit union industry executives
and the impacts they make oncommunities everywhere.
(00:22):
I'm Glenn FrEchette, and today Iam joined by Michelle Dwyer,
President and CEO of FranklinFirst Federal Credit Union in
Greenfield, Mass.
Holy cow, Michelle, that's a
Michelle (00:36):
lot.
Yeah, it's a mouthful, huh?
Glynn (00:38):
It is a mouthful, and we don't know each other well.
We've just gotten a chance totalk here over the past hour,
and it's a pleasure to be ableto sit down with you.
Michelle (00:46):
Thank you.
Thank you
Glynn (00:47):
for having me.
Well, as you and I talked beforerecording, my job is to break up
your day a little bit.
You're sitting through aconference.
It's nice to, well, maybe play alittle bit of hooky.
Michelle (00:58):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
And we get to talk about thingsthat are my passion in the
credit union.
So that's, it's great.
Win win for me for
Glynn (01:05):
sure.
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
So I can sense the passion justfrom the last 45 minutes of
chatting with you But for thoselisteners that don't know who
the heck you are Why don't youtake us through that short
journey that well, maybe it's along one.
I don't know.
It's yeah, you're young So I'mgonna thank you However long the
(01:25):
journey has been Help ourlisteners to get to know you a
bit better by talking about yourexperience.
Michelle (01:31):
Yeah, I have a pretty fun story.
So, I got into the credit union,Franklin First, in 2007.
I had just moved out of myparents house, got in my first
apartment, and I was working ina retail job that I decided I
could no longer work in, and soI quit.
And I had no job.
No way to pay rent in thisapartment that I had just moved
(01:53):
into.
So I ended up going to a jobplacement program, like a mass
hire program where they, theyput you in temp jobs and that
kind of a thing.
I went and I put in myinformation and the first thing
they called me about was atemporary teller position at
Franklin First.
Wow.
Yep, so I went and I interviewedand went back for a second
(02:13):
interview and They hired me onas a temporary teller.
So, summer ish of 2007, I wenton as a temporary teller.
Obviously, I ended up staying onas a full time regular teller.
I stayed in that position for alittle while and maybe a year
and a half to two years in.
I took on the lead tellerposition and then kind of rolled
(02:35):
in a back office position at thesame time.
So I was doing teller for partof the day and doing back office
ACH stuff for another part ofthe day.
And at the time our comptrollerwould call the comptroller back
then, which was our CFO.
That's kind of a cool term.
Let's bring it back.
It is, right?
A little bit.
I think a little less class toit, but Really?
I
Glynn (02:54):
don't know.
I'm into bringing it back.
Michelle (02:55):
Okay.
We'll talk about it later.
Alright.
Left, and so his assistant movedinto the CFO position.
And so that left open anothersection of a back office job.
So we were able to combine theback office job that I was doing
that was kind of a part time jobwith her part time back office
job and make that one full timejob.
So I moved upstairs into theback office from there on and I
(03:19):
was in that job for about fiveyears.
Went to credit union managementschool and I kind of was lucky
enough to know at that pointthat there wasn't really anybody
else interested in Potentiallypursuing the CEO job in the
succession of a retiring CEO atFranklin First.
Okay.
(03:39):
So she kind of said, two years,two to three years out, I'm
going to be retiring.
This might be something thatyou'd fit into.
So went to credit unitmanagement school, went through
that whole thing.
Started taking on some of herjob responsibilities and then in
2016 she retired and I steppedin.
Thank God the board of directorswas on board with letting this
(04:01):
person that was only in thecredit union industry for 10
years Was only in her mid 30sStep into the CEO role and I've
been doing that since so Aboutsix years now, six, seven years,
I've been the CEO.
Glynn (04:15):
Amazing.
Yeah.
I have to say, of all thepodcasts that I've done, and
I've asked a similar question ofthe CEO sitting in that chair,
what their journey has been,nobody has talked about their
parents basement.
Really?
Michelle (04:30):
That's kind of surprising.
I
Glynn (04:32):
mean, you have to have proud parents at the moment
Michelle (04:35):
looking back.
For sure.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
I think they're very much, theywere floored because certainly
it wasn't a career path.
That I was looking to take byany means.
I fell into it and I fell inlove with what the credit union
was and The people I worked withI mean a lot of the people that
were above me when I started asa teller are still in those same
(04:56):
positions and happy to be thereand doing their jobs every day
and so It's it's one of thosethings where Them being able to
see a journey that maybe theyWish that they had in their
lives too, because they startedworking at young ages and worked
their ways up in different waystoo, but certainly would have
never said they're assuccessful, right?
(05:17):
You always want to see yourkids.
Achieve the success.
And so, yeah, they certainly arevery proud.
So you did
Glynn (05:23):
say something though, that a lot of CEOs also share
and that is they fell into therole, but then you just
mentioned something that'sintriguing to me.
There isn't a defined careerpath per se to climb the
corporate credit union ladder,if you will, in succession.
(05:44):
But should there be?
Could there be?
Michelle (05:46):
I think there should be, yeah.
Certainly people when, theythink about they want to be
investment bankers or in financein general but you don't
necessarily think even smallcommunity banks or credit
unions, you don't think of a ofa long term career there.
Yeah I know it's reallyimportant for my shop and I'm
having conversations with othersmall credit unions.
I know for them too, developinginternally is very important.
(06:09):
So somebody coming in and doingpart time summer work from high
school or college, trying tosupplement, even somebody coming
in just being a regular, fulltime teller, or any kind of what
would be considered frontfacing, lower level position,
making sure that they have allthe skills necessary to
potentially, even if they're notstaying with us, To move up in
(06:30):
the union world somewhere.
Because the more we haveinvolvement with younger people
and understanding what creditunions are, what they can
develop in their communities bycreating financial inclusion and
safety for their neighbors, it'shuge.
(06:50):
And if they can get invested inthat and get excited about that,
with, older CEOs retiring, Itfeels safe.
It feels safer to have peopleinternally that understand what
a credit union is and supposedto be developed from inside the
credit union And being put incharge at a later date as
opposed to hiring from outsidefrom what might be a financial
(07:11):
industry somebody that's comingin with different ideas about
Banking or investment bankingand stuff like that and kind of
changing the tone of what acredit union is
Glynn (07:21):
You know what?
I also like about this topicwe're discussing is the
opportunities are then broadenedcoast to coast in backyard
communities everywhere.
So, you happen to live inwestern Massachusetts.
It's a beautiful area that I'msure a lot of people don't want
to leave and necessarily moveinto a big metropolitan area.
(07:44):
Would love to have a careerliving in Greenfield,
Massachusetts that is aposition, that has a position of
status.
No less important of a job thaneven some of the folks that were
honored during the lunch,serving in Boston, serving in
New York City or Washington, D.
C.
So I think the career path getsopened up for backyard
(08:07):
communities like yours.
Yeah, I
Michelle (08:09):
think that's an excellent point.
It's one of those things we'realways fighting against as a
small credit union too, right,is the big city competition, the
big financial institutioncompetition.
And there are so manyopportunities.
for smaller communities to getinto this industry.
And the more small institutionsthere are, more new credit
unions, community banks, thatdevelop in rural areas, or what
(08:32):
we would consider bankingdeserts, the more opportunity
these people have to kind of getinto the industry.
So it's exciting, yeah.
So let's talk
Glynn (08:39):
about, culturally, what you're trying to foster with
your own employee base.
As it relates to communitygiving, are you encouraging your
employees to be a part of allnonprofits in your
Michelle (08:55):
own backyard?
Yeah, absolutely.
So one of my initiatives astransitioning from the back
office to CEO was we weren't outin the community very much at
all.
It was very much we're headdown, doing our jobs, just
trying to get through the day,that kind of a thing.
And I saw how.
Not impactful.
(09:16):
We were for lack of betterwords, right?
We kind of have lost our imagein the community, not not in a
negative way, but just nobodyreally knew who we were.
So one of the things I was like,we really need to get back in
the community.
Let's create an employeeincentive plan that says, hey,
we'll give you a bonus at theend of the year.
Based on the number of hours orpoints that you earn through
(09:38):
either your own involvement thatyou're already doing,
Involvement in things that thecredit union is going to be
participating in and you want tovolunteer for, Or, if this is
going to encourage you to go outand actually pick up something
that maybe you hadn't thoughtabout prior, Because, you didn't
have a real incentive base to dothat, And allowing hours to, if
(10:00):
you have something, a boardmeeting, or a volunteer project
that might be happening duringthe business day.
Like, let us know.
We'll, we'll give you that time.
We'll make sure you get paid foryour time that you're gone
because you're a representativeof us and encouraging
Glynn (10:14):
that.
Oh my gosh, I love this.
What about other financialinstitutions within the
community?
Do you find that you sidle upnext to one another for the
benefit of the community andnonprofits?
Are you doing good together?
Michelle (10:28):
A hundred percent.
So one of the things that Ithink is the greatest about
Franklin first and the communitybanks in the area, which would
be Greenfield savings,Greenfield co op.
Freedom Credit Union gets in themix there, too.
We all do collaborate quite abit, with supporting the same
organizations.
I know I can, if, like, I'm on aboard, I can call somebody at
(10:49):
one of those institutions and belike, Hey, we need a sponsorship
for this thing.
Can you, can you guys help usout?
We'll do it every time, and it'seven community programs.
If we're, if one of us isinvolved in something and we
need a volunteer or insight orhelp somewhere, we're, we
definitely, are cooperative inthat way, and it's, I think
(11:11):
that's kind of unique in asituation because I don't think
that happens in a lot ofcommunities.
I think
Glynn (11:16):
most people would report that credit unions are really
good at cooperating with oneanother, but you're right, you
don't often hear in the samebreath, credit unions and
community banks, standing up forthe greater good of the
community.
No disrespect thrown to banks,it just isn't happening as
often.
I'm interviewing a little bitlater today, Glenn Welch from
(11:37):
Freedom they just mentioned.
So if he doesn't mentionFranklin first,
Michelle (11:41):
I'm going to bring it up because you
Glynn (11:43):
gave him props.
I'll make sure to keep himhonest.
What are you seeing at themoment as we're nearing the end
of 2023 and into 2024?
Predictably, your members willbe challenged by.
What are you starting to planfor in that respect?
Michelle (12:04):
Yeah, I think my big, my biggest concern, as kind of
inflation continues, rates,they, they make us want to
believe that they're levelingout.
They might go up a little bitmore.
But I think my biggest concernreally is when rates start to
trickle down.
And the reason for that isbecause I think you're going to
(12:26):
find a lot of people that havebought mortgages in this time,
have bought automobiles in thistime, are going to suddenly find
themselves upside down.
Because the valuations of thoseproducts has been so inflated by
inflation that when that stuffkind of starts to come down, and
people try to refinance, they'renot going to be able to.
(12:47):
And I think people are buyinginto these things, specifically
auto loans.
At a higher rate because eitherthey have more or less because
they have to rate their carbroke down, they might need to
get a new one and they're like,well, we know rates are going to
go down.
We can, we can handle this for,the next year, maybe two years.
But when they go to refi andthey realize the value isn't
there anymore, it's going to bevery difficult for them to do
(13:08):
that.
Yeah.
And then just in general, you'reseeing there's still so much
movement in the labor market.
Yeah.
And we are still seeing a lot oflayoffs happen in our area and
people kind of, they certainlyare still spending instead of
saving.
We're seeing that as a big, as abig factor too.
And my fear is that it's, It'sgoing to be a situation where
(13:30):
people have kind of overspentthemselves and not have the
income going forward to kind ofget themselves right with that.
Glynn (13:38):
That's true.
I think consumers at large haveneeded to dip into savings in
order to keep up with inflation.
So while spending is still at anall time high, the reality is
it's because prices are drivingthat high spend.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yep.
Now what you just said abouthomes and cars.
(13:58):
I know you're right and I hopeyou're wrong.
Michelle (14:01):
Oh, yeah, me too.
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
My hope is that, the value staysand all that stuff.
And, with lower inventory andkind of stuff that's happening
in the auto industry, stuff likethat.
There's a very good chance thatI will be wrong and I want to be
wrong because there will, maybethere will not be the inventory.
So that value stays in there.
Well, call it
Glynn (14:19):
artificial inflation or nervousness.
Back in 2020, we saw interestrates at a historic low and yet
the value of homes remainedhigh.
Correct.
Yes.
So we're gonna, we're gonna hopefor that.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
All right.
So same thought process, samequestion.
We're ending 2023.
We're moving into 2024.
(14:41):
What are you seeing locally withnonprofits that are finding
themselves in more desperateneed than ever before?
And as importantly, what are youdoing to step up and support
them?
Yeah,
Michelle (14:54):
I think, um, I'm sure this is across the country.
I think we're all seeing kind ofmore and more need with food
insecurity.
Homelessness certainly rampingup just services for children to
be able to kind of just meet dayto day, functional products and
(15:14):
services and, ability to havethe things they need to go to
school and that kind of a thing.
I think the amount of nonprofits we have in our area is,
We're very saturated in nonprofits.
No kidding.
Very saturated.
Glynn (15:28):
No shortage of organizations to
Michelle (15:29):
give to.
That is correct.
Absolutely.
But it also makes it very hardfor them in a, in a competition
that shouldn't be a competition,right?
Right.
So, I think that's one of thebiggest things that I'm seeing
is that everybody is trying toget funding from all the same
people.
Right.
And the well is only so deepthere.
(15:52):
For me, being able to, as asmall credit credit union, we
obviously don't have a budgetthat could maybe compare to
something they could get from aGSB or even a freedom.
But we are really concentratedon being able to participate and
help them in different ways.
(16:12):
Sure, our financial,contribution is there, but, I
have an employee that spends alot of time Helping with
marketing for nonprofits, she'llspend some time Almost every day
doing posters or making ticketsfor an event and that kind of a
thing for a nonprofit so that,they don't have to worry about
that on their administrativeend.
(16:33):
They don't have the time to dothat because they're doing other
things, so we'll take care ofthat.
Wow.
Yeah, so we do a lot of that.
That's a big leap.
Helping where we can,
Glynn (16:41):
for sure.
At a point later in time, weought to be talking about
NetGiver and the assistance wemight be able to provide.
Yeah.
And you're reminding me of aconversation that I had a week
ago.
And I hadn't, I hadn't asked thequestion in a way that it
elicited the answer that I'mabout to share with you.
She also told me that she livesin an area where the competition
(17:05):
among non profits, she knew thenumber right off the top of her
head.
She said it was number nine inthe country in terms of
saturation.
And the fact that she knew thatled me to believe, and I know it
to be true, she understands whatshe's up against.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Michelle (17:21):
I don't know the exact number, but I did sit in a
presentation for a non profit,and it's upwards of 300 non
profits in our very small area.
That's a lot.
That's a lot to have to, forthem to have to deal with, and
they all have their own spot,and their own, their own thing
that they're trying to take careof.
(17:41):
And I, the good thing is a lotof them do collaborate.
Like, they don't want to inventthe wheel.
But yeah, it's, it is, it's avery hard thing to deal with
when you know that you have thatmuch other competition.
And it's competition for notjust funding, but competition
for board members and volunteersand, I, I could probably name
three organizations right nowthat have at least five of the
(18:03):
same You know, majority boardmembers, because that's, yeah,
yeah, it's, it's very slimpickings.
Glynn (18:10):
I want to steer you away from this line of questioning
for just a minute.
Sure.
And then we'll end talking aboutnon profits again.
Social responsibility means alot of different things to a lot
of different people.
fOr me specifically, I thinkabout the last several years,
maybe a, maybe socialresponsibility awareness was
(18:31):
heightened right around the timeCOVID broke.
thEre were some unfortunateincidents that transpired in the
world in the last several years,also bringing awareness to
things like diversity, equityand inclusion and otherwise.
I'd like to just get yourperspective on social
responsibility that you ensureyou have within the credit union
(18:54):
and then how that transcends outinto the community as well.
Michelle (18:58):
Yeah, I think, making certain caveats to being able to
make all of our financialproducts inclusive is really the
thing that I think is the mostsocially responsible thing that
we do.
We have products that servechildren, teenagers, people
that, have no credit, badcredit.
Doing things like that, andmaking sure that people are
(19:20):
going to be financially healthy,I think that's kind of the only
step that we have in our size,in our area, that we can
participate and feel like we arebeing socially responsible.
for our neighbors and ourcommunity.
Glynn (19:35):
So give me an example then of a product for a teenager
that you have that you're proud
Michelle (19:40):
of.
Yeah, so we introduced our teenchecking account probably a year
and a half ago.
It's for kids from 13 to 17.
There's no overdraft attached toit, so they can't get NSF fees
they have access to a debitcard, the mobile app, online
banking.
It's basically like your regularchecking account.
You do have to have a legalguardian on the account with you
(20:04):
just for sake of,responsibility, but it really, I
think, helps with learningfinancial education really early
on.
I mean, we all know that.
That there is no real financialeducation in schools.
There is, pressure is about todo that, and that's fantastic.
But up until now, really theonly option for kids and teens
(20:27):
to have a checking product, toreally be able to learn what
financial healthy habits are andspending are, are online banks.
You know the ones that offer theproducts that are simply mobile
apps that you know that reallydon't do much and we have a
Opportunity that when the kidscome in to open accounts we can
(20:49):
start forming relationships Sothey feel comfortable asking us
questions, I think that's huge
Glynn (20:55):
So my guess is when you show a physical check to a
Michelle (20:58):
13 year old.
No idea.
No idea I mean, there's some 20year olds and we have a you
know, employee that has 20 yearolds that Has no idea how to
write a check.
I mean, that's just, that's,that's
Glynn (21:09):
kind of where it is.
To which you reply, you know youget them from your grandmother
on your birthday.
You've seen one of these, don'tmake like you haven't.
Correct, yeah.
Grandma sends the 15 check.
Absolutely, yeah.
Okay, that's cool.
And my guess is there's anemphasis on digital much more
than would have been, let's say,25 years ago.
Michelle (21:28):
Yeah, I mean, that's also what's attractive to them,
right?
They don't, And they don't wantto write a check.
They, they want to have instantaccess.
They want the mobile app so theycan see everything happen when
it happens.
And, starting to form thosehabits of even looking at all my
banking multiple times a day.
As obsessives and we might allbe with it.
It's a good healthy habit toknow what you have and what you
(21:49):
can spend and not spend morethan that.
Yeah.
Glynn (21:52):
All right.
So let's end in a real goodspot.
We're going to dive down acouple of inches and hopefully
there's an organization that'spersonal for you in so far as
maybe near and dear to yourfamily.
I'd love for you to plugsomething that's meaningful for
you.
Yeah.
Michelle (22:08):
So I have two really.
We have at the credit union andit really from the credit union
is how we really got into thisorganization is the Children's
Advocacy Center of FranklinCounty and North Quabbin region.
So, that organization has multiprongs of what it does.
But it really has a centrallocation within the Franklin
County area that if a child issexually abused, they have an
(22:31):
opportunity to go to this, thiscenter.
And it provides a space for themto be interviewed by somebody
that is qualified to beinterviewed, interviewing them
in a very safe way, in a verysafe space.
One time while all of the, thelegalese and the police
departments and stuff observethat.
So the child is not beingoverwhelmed.
(22:51):
And then there's continuingservices, therapy and doctors
and, getting them in the rightprograms and making sure that
they understand the courtprocess.
And it's just an excellentorganization to make sure the
kids.
And so that's one of the thingsthat's happening.
And so I think that the child'srights are not only being
addressed at the time of theirtrauma.
But the continuing factors ofhow the organization follows
(23:13):
this child to make sure thatthey have the best chance of,
turning this this event aroundto, being able to successfully
go through life down the road.
The second one is MusicaFranklin.
So I sit on the board on thatand that is a program that
offers it's an after schoolprogram that is like string,
violin instrument classes forwhat really ends up being kind
(23:38):
of elementary school kids.
So they have a program inGreenfield and they have a
program in Turner's Falls.
So the kids after school, theygo to this program and they
learn how to play the violin orthe guitar.
They also do some choirpractices.
So, the kids get to learn musicat a young age, have a support
community among peers and theykind of get to interact from
(24:01):
other schools too.
So it's bringing multipleschools together and the kids
are able to kind of make friendsoutside of their normal kind of
sphere.
Of classroom.
And they, they, one of their bigthings is also focused on racial
racial justice.
It's, it's a really greatorganization.
All
Glynn (24:18):
Well, now I get to send you back into session.
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you
Michelle (24:22):
so much.
Yes.
It was a great conversation.
Thank you.
Glynn (24:24):
Thank you.
Welcome to another episode of CU Lead, sponsored by
NetGiver, the app and platformthat enables donors and
nonprofits to give and receiveon a no fee basis.
On this podcast, we featurecredit union industry executives
and the impacts they make oncommunities everywhere.
(00:22):
I'm Glenn FrEchette, and today Iam joined by Michelle Dwyer,
President and CEO of FranklinFirst Federal Credit Union in
Greenfield, Mass.
Holy cow, Michelle, that's a
Michelle (00:36):
lot.
Yeah, it's a mouthful, huh?
Glynn (00:38):
It is a mouthful, and we don't know each other well.
We've just gotten a chance totalk here over the past hour,
and it's a pleasure to be ableto sit down with you.
Michelle (00:46):
Thank you.
Thank you
Glynn (00:47):
for having me.
Well, as you and I talked beforerecording, my job is to break up
your day a little bit.
You're sitting through aconference.
It's nice to, well, maybe play alittle bit of hooky.
Michelle (00:58):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
And we get to talk about thingsthat are my passion in the
credit union.
So that's, it's great.
Win win for me for
Glynn (01:05):
sure.
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
So I can sense the passion justfrom the last 45 minutes of
chatting with you But for thoselisteners that don't know who
the heck you are Why don't youtake us through that short
journey that well, maybe it's along one.
I don't know.
It's yeah, you're young So I'mgonna thank you However long the
(01:25):
journey has been Help ourlisteners to get to know you a
bit better by talking about yourexperience.
Michelle (01:31):
Yeah, I have a pretty fun story.
So, I got into the credit union,Franklin First, in 2007.
I had just moved out of myparents house, got in my first
apartment, and I was working ina retail job that I decided I
could no longer work in, and soI quit.
And I had no job.
No way to pay rent in thisapartment that I had just moved
(01:53):
into.
So I ended up going to a jobplacement program, like a mass
hire program where they, theyput you in temp jobs and that
kind of a thing.
I went and I put in myinformation and the first thing
they called me about was atemporary teller position at
Franklin First.
Wow.
Yep, so I went and I interviewedand went back for a second
(02:13):
interview and They hired me onas a temporary teller.
So, summer ish of 2007, I wenton as a temporary teller.
Obviously, I ended up staying onas a full time regular teller.
I stayed in that position for alittle while and maybe a year
and a half to two years in.
I took on the lead tellerposition and then kind of rolled
(02:35):
in a back office position at thesame time.
So I was doing teller for partof the day and doing back office
ACH stuff for another part ofthe day.
And at the time our comptrollerwould call the comptroller back
then, which was our CFO.
That's kind of a cool term.
Let's bring it back.
It is, right?
A little bit.
I think a little less class toit, but Really?
I
Glynn (02:54):
don't know.
I'm into bringing it back.
Michelle (02:55):
Okay.
We'll talk about it later.
Alright.
Left, and so his assistant movedinto the CFO position.
And so that left open anothersection of a back office job.
So we were able to combine theback office job that I was doing
that was kind of a part time jobwith her part time back office
job and make that one full timejob.
So I moved upstairs into theback office from there on and I
(03:19):
was in that job for about fiveyears.
Went to credit union managementschool and I kind of was lucky
enough to know at that pointthat there wasn't really anybody
else interested in Potentiallypursuing the CEO job in the
succession of a retiring CEO atFranklin First.
Okay.
(03:39):
So she kind of said, two years,two to three years out, I'm
going to be retiring.
This might be something thatyou'd fit into.
So went to credit unitmanagement school, went through
that whole thing.
Started taking on some of herjob responsibilities and then in
2016 she retired and I steppedin.
Thank God the board of directorswas on board with letting this
(04:01):
person that was only in thecredit union industry for 10
years Was only in her mid 30sStep into the CEO role and I've
been doing that since so Aboutsix years now, six, seven years,
I've been the CEO.
Glynn (04:15):
Amazing.
Yeah.
I have to say, of all thepodcasts that I've done, and
I've asked a similar question ofthe CEO sitting in that chair,
what their journey has been,nobody has talked about their
parents basement.
Really?
Michelle (04:30):
That's kind of surprising.
I
Glynn (04:32):
mean, you have to have proud parents at the moment
Michelle (04:35):
looking back.
For sure.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
I think they're very much, theywere floored because certainly
it wasn't a career path.
That I was looking to take byany means.
I fell into it and I fell inlove with what the credit union
was and The people I worked withI mean a lot of the people that
were above me when I started asa teller are still in those same
(04:56):
positions and happy to be thereand doing their jobs every day
and so It's it's one of thosethings where Them being able to
see a journey that maybe theyWish that they had in their
lives too, because they startedworking at young ages and worked
their ways up in different waystoo, but certainly would have
never said they're assuccessful, right?
(05:17):
You always want to see yourkids.
Achieve the success.
And so, yeah, they certainly arevery proud.
So you did
Glynn (05:23):
say something though, that a lot of CEOs also share
and that is they fell into therole, but then you just
mentioned something that'sintriguing to me.
There isn't a defined careerpath per se to climb the
corporate credit union ladder,if you will, in succession.
(05:44):
But should there be?
Could there be?
Michelle (05:46):
I think there should be, yeah.
Certainly people when, theythink about they want to be
investment bankers or in financein general but you don't
necessarily think even smallcommunity banks or credit
unions, you don't think of a ofa long term career there.
Yeah I know it's reallyimportant for my shop and I'm
having conversations with othersmall credit unions.
I know for them too, developinginternally is very important.
(06:09):
So somebody coming in and doingpart time summer work from high
school or college, trying tosupplement, even somebody coming
in just being a regular, fulltime teller, or any kind of what
would be considered frontfacing, lower level position,
making sure that they have allthe skills necessary to
potentially, even if they're notstaying with us, To move up in
(06:30):
the union world somewhere.
Because the more we haveinvolvement with younger people
and understanding what creditunions are, what they can
develop in their communities bycreating financial inclusion and
safety for their neighbors, it'shuge.
(06:50):
And if they can get invested inthat and get excited about that,
with, older CEOs retiring, Itfeels safe.
It feels safer to have peopleinternally that understand what
a credit union is and supposedto be developed from inside the
credit union And being put incharge at a later date as
opposed to hiring from outsidefrom what might be a financial
(07:11):
industry somebody that's comingin with different ideas about
Banking or investment bankingand stuff like that and kind of
changing the tone of what acredit union is
Glynn (07:21):
You know what?
I also like about this topicwe're discussing is the
opportunities are then broadenedcoast to coast in backyard
communities everywhere.
So, you happen to live inwestern Massachusetts.
It's a beautiful area that I'msure a lot of people don't want
to leave and necessarily moveinto a big metropolitan area.
(07:44):
Would love to have a careerliving in Greenfield,
Massachusetts that is aposition, that has a position of
status.
No less important of a job thaneven some of the folks that were
honored during the lunch,serving in Boston, serving in
New York City or Washington, D.
C.
So I think the career path getsopened up for backyard
(08:07):
communities like yours.
Yeah, I
Michelle (08:09):
think that's an excellent point.
It's one of those things we'realways fighting against as a
small credit union too, right,is the big city competition, the
big financial institutioncompetition.
And there are so manyopportunities.
for smaller communities to getinto this industry.
And the more small institutionsthere are, more new credit
unions, community banks, thatdevelop in rural areas, or what
(08:32):
we would consider bankingdeserts, the more opportunity
these people have to kind of getinto the industry.
So it's exciting, yeah.
So let's talk
Glynn (08:39):
about, culturally, what you're trying to foster with
your own employee base.
As it relates to communitygiving, are you encouraging your
employees to be a part of allnonprofits in your
Michelle (08:55):
own backyard?
Yeah, absolutely.
So one of my initiatives astransitioning from the back
office to CEO was we weren't outin the community very much at
all.
It was very much we're headdown, doing our jobs, just
trying to get through the day,that kind of a thing.
And I saw how.
Not impactful.
(09:16):
We were for lack of betterwords, right?
We kind of have lost our imagein the community, not not in a
negative way, but just nobodyreally knew who we were.
So one of the things I was like,we really need to get back in
the community.
Let's create an employeeincentive plan that says, hey,
we'll give you a bonus at theend of the year.
Based on the number of hours orpoints that you earn through
(09:38):
either your own involvement thatyou're already doing,
Involvement in things that thecredit union is going to be
participating in and you want tovolunteer for, Or, if this is
going to encourage you to go outand actually pick up something
that maybe you hadn't thoughtabout prior, Because, you didn't
have a real incentive base to dothat, And allowing hours to, if
(10:00):
you have something, a boardmeeting, or a volunteer project
that might be happening duringthe business day.
Like, let us know.
We'll, we'll give you that time.
We'll make sure you get paid foryour time that you're gone
because you're a representativeof us and encouraging
Glynn (10:14):
that.
Oh my gosh, I love this.
What about other financialinstitutions within the
community?
Do you find that you sidle upnext to one another for the
benefit of the community andnonprofits?
Are you doing good together?
Michelle (10:28):
A hundred percent.
So one of the things that Ithink is the greatest about
Franklin first and the communitybanks in the area, which would
be Greenfield savings,Greenfield co op.
Freedom Credit Union gets in themix there, too.
We all do collaborate quite abit, with supporting the same
organizations.
I know I can, if, like, I'm on aboard, I can call somebody at
(10:49):
one of those institutions and belike, Hey, we need a sponsorship
for this thing.
Can you, can you guys help usout?
We'll do it every time, and it'seven community programs.
If we're, if one of us isinvolved in something and we
need a volunteer or insight orhelp somewhere, we're, we
definitely, are cooperative inthat way, and it's, I think
(11:11):
that's kind of unique in asituation because I don't think
that happens in a lot ofcommunities.
I think
Glynn (11:16):
most people would report that credit unions are really
good at cooperating with oneanother, but you're right, you
don't often hear in the samebreath, credit unions and
community banks, standing up forthe greater good of the
community.
No disrespect thrown to banks,it just isn't happening as
often.
I'm interviewing a little bitlater today, Glenn Welch from
(11:37):
Freedom they just mentioned.
So if he doesn't mentionFranklin first,
Michelle (11:41):
I'm going to bring it up because you
Glynn (11:43):
gave him props.
I'll make sure to keep himhonest.
What are you seeing at themoment as we're nearing the end
of 2023 and into 2024?
Predictably, your members willbe challenged by.
What are you starting to planfor in that respect?
Michelle (12:04):
Yeah, I think my big, my biggest concern, as kind of
inflation continues, rates,they, they make us want to
believe that they're levelingout.
They might go up a little bitmore.
But I think my biggest concernreally is when rates start to
trickle down.
And the reason for that isbecause I think you're going to
(12:26):
find a lot of people that havebought mortgages in this time,
have bought automobiles in thistime, are going to suddenly find
themselves upside down.
Because the valuations of thoseproducts has been so inflated by
inflation that when that stuffkind of starts to come down, and
people try to refinance, they'renot going to be able to.
(12:47):
And I think people are buyinginto these things, specifically
auto loans.
At a higher rate because eitherthey have more or less because
they have to rate their carbroke down, they might need to
get a new one and they're like,well, we know rates are going to
go down.
We can, we can handle this for,the next year, maybe two years.
But when they go to refi andthey realize the value isn't
there anymore, it's going to bevery difficult for them to do
(13:08):
that.
Yeah.
And then just in general, you'reseeing there's still so much
movement in the labor market.
Yeah.
And we are still seeing a lot oflayoffs happen in our area and
people kind of, they certainlyare still spending instead of
saving.
We're seeing that as a big, as abig factor too.
And my fear is that it's, It'sgoing to be a situation where
(13:30):
people have kind of overspentthemselves and not have the
income going forward to kind ofget themselves right with that.
Glynn (13:38):
That's true.
I think consumers at large haveneeded to dip into savings in
order to keep up with inflation.
So while spending is still at anall time high, the reality is
it's because prices are drivingthat high spend.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yep.
Now what you just said abouthomes and cars.
(13:58):
I know you're right and I hopeyou're wrong.
Michelle (14:01):
Oh, yeah, me too.
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
My hope is that, the value staysand all that stuff.
And, with lower inventory andkind of stuff that's happening
in the auto industry, stuff likethat.
There's a very good chance thatI will be wrong and I want to be
wrong because there will, maybethere will not be the inventory.
So that value stays in there.
Well, call it
Glynn (14:19):
artificial inflation or nervousness.
Back in 2020, we saw interestrates at a historic low and yet
the value of homes remainedhigh.
Correct.
Yes.
So we're gonna, we're gonna hopefor that.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
All right.
So same thought process, samequestion.
We're ending 2023.
We're moving into 2024.
(14:41):
What are you seeing locally withnonprofits that are finding
themselves in more desperateneed than ever before?
And as importantly, what are youdoing to step up and support
them?
Yeah,
Michelle (14:54):
I think, um, I'm sure this is across the country.
I think we're all seeing kind ofmore and more need with food
insecurity.
Homelessness certainly rampingup just services for children to
be able to kind of just meet dayto day, functional products and
(15:14):
services and, ability to havethe things they need to go to
school and that kind of a thing.
I think the amount of nonprofits we have in our area is,
We're very saturated in nonprofits.
No kidding.
Very saturated.
Glynn (15:28):
No shortage of organizations to
Michelle (15:29):
give to.
That is correct.
Absolutely.
But it also makes it very hardfor them in a, in a competition
that shouldn't be a competition,right?
Right.
So, I think that's one of thebiggest things that I'm seeing
is that everybody is trying toget funding from all the same
people.
Right.
And the well is only so deepthere.
(15:52):
For me, being able to, as asmall credit credit union, we
obviously don't have a budgetthat could maybe compare to
something they could get from aGSB or even a freedom.
But we are really concentratedon being able to participate and
help them in different ways.
(16:12):
Sure, our financial,contribution is there, but, I
have an employee that spends alot of time Helping with
marketing for nonprofits, she'llspend some time Almost every day
doing posters or making ticketsfor an event and that kind of a
thing for a nonprofit so that,they don't have to worry about
that on their administrativeend.
(16:33):
They don't have the time to dothat because they're doing other
things, so we'll take care ofthat.
Wow.
Yeah, so we do a lot of that.
That's a big leap.
Helping where we can,
Glynn (16:41):
for sure.
At a point later in time, weought to be talking about
NetGiver and the assistance wemight be able to provide.
Yeah.
And you're reminding me of aconversation that I had a week
ago.
And I hadn't, I hadn't asked thequestion in a way that it
elicited the answer that I'mabout to share with you.
She also told me that she livesin an area where the competition
(17:05):
among non profits, she knew thenumber right off the top of her
head.
She said it was number nine inthe country in terms of
saturation.
And the fact that she knew thatled me to believe, and I know it
to be true, she understands whatshe's up against.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Michelle (17:21):
I don't know the exact number, but I did sit in a
presentation for a non profit,and it's upwards of 300 non
profits in our very small area.
That's a lot.
That's a lot to have to, forthem to have to deal with, and
they all have their own spot,and their own, their own thing
that they're trying to take careof.
(17:41):
And I, the good thing is a lotof them do collaborate.
Like, they don't want to inventthe wheel.
But yeah, it's, it is, it's avery hard thing to deal with
when you know that you have thatmuch other competition.
And it's competition for notjust funding, but competition
for board members and volunteersand, I, I could probably name
three organizations right nowthat have at least five of the
(18:03):
same You know, majority boardmembers, because that's, yeah,
yeah, it's, it's very slimpickings.
Glynn (18:10):
I want to steer you away from this line of questioning
for just a minute.
Sure.
And then we'll end talking aboutnon profits again.
Social responsibility means alot of different things to a lot
of different people.
fOr me specifically, I thinkabout the last several years,
maybe a, maybe socialresponsibility awareness was
(18:31):
heightened right around the timeCOVID broke.
thEre were some unfortunateincidents that transpired in the
world in the last several years,also bringing awareness to
things like diversity, equityand inclusion and otherwise.
I'd like to just get yourperspective on social
responsibility that you ensureyou have within the credit union
(18:54):
and then how that transcends outinto the community as well.
Michelle (18:58):
Yeah, I think, making certain caveats to being able to
make all of our financialproducts inclusive is really the
thing that I think is the mostsocially responsible thing that
we do.
We have products that servechildren, teenagers, people
that, have no credit, badcredit.
Doing things like that, andmaking sure that people are
(19:20):
going to be financially healthy,I think that's kind of the only
step that we have in our size,in our area, that we can
participate and feel like we arebeing socially responsible.
for our neighbors and ourcommunity.
Glynn (19:35):
So give me an example then of a product for a teenager
that you have that you're proud
Michelle (19:40):
of.
Yeah, so we introduced our teenchecking account probably a year
and a half ago.
It's for kids from 13 to 17.
There's no overdraft attached toit, so they can't get NSF fees
they have access to a debitcard, the mobile app, online
banking.
It's basically like your regularchecking account.
You do have to have a legalguardian on the account with you
(20:04):
just for sake of,responsibility, but it really, I
think, helps with learningfinancial education really early
on.
I mean, we all know that.
That there is no real financialeducation in schools.
There is, pressure is about todo that, and that's fantastic.
But up until now, really theonly option for kids and teens
(20:27):
to have a checking product, toreally be able to learn what
financial healthy habits are andspending are, are online banks.
You know the ones that offer theproducts that are simply mobile
apps that you know that reallydon't do much and we have a
Opportunity that when the kidscome in to open accounts we can
(20:49):
start forming relationships Sothey feel comfortable asking us
questions, I think that's huge
Glynn (20:55):
So my guess is when you show a physical check to a
Michelle (20:58):
13 year old.
No idea.
No idea I mean, there's some 20year olds and we have a you
know, employee that has 20 yearolds that Has no idea how to
write a check.
I mean, that's just, that's,that's
Glynn (21:09):
kind of where it is.
To which you reply, you know youget them from your grandmother
on your birthday.
You've seen one of these, don'tmake like you haven't.
Correct, yeah.
Grandma sends the 15 check.
Absolutely, yeah.
Okay, that's cool.
And my guess is there's anemphasis on digital much more
than would have been, let's say,25 years ago.
Michelle (21:28):
Yeah, I mean, that's also what's attractive to them,
right?
They don't, And they don't wantto write a check.
They, they want to have instantaccess.
They want the mobile app so theycan see everything happen when
it happens.
And, starting to form thosehabits of even looking at all my
banking multiple times a day.
As obsessives and we might allbe with it.
It's a good healthy habit toknow what you have and what you
(21:49):
can spend and not spend morethan that.
Yeah.
Glynn (21:52):
All right.
So let's end in a real goodspot.
We're going to dive down acouple of inches and hopefully
there's an organization that'spersonal for you in so far as
maybe near and dear to yourfamily.
I'd love for you to plugsomething that's meaningful for
you.
Yeah.
Michelle (22:08):
So I have two really.
We have at the credit union andit really from the credit union
is how we really got into thisorganization is the Children's
Advocacy Center of FranklinCounty and North Quabbin region.
So, that organization has multiprongs of what it does.
But it really has a centrallocation within the Franklin
County area that if a child issexually abused, they have an
(22:31):
opportunity to go to this, thiscenter.
And it provides a space for themto be interviewed by somebody
that is qualified to beinterviewed, interviewing them
in a very safe way, in a verysafe space.
One time while all of the, thelegalese and the police
departments and stuff observethat.
So the child is not beingoverwhelmed.
(22:51):
And then there's continuingservices, therapy and doctors
and, getting them in the rightprograms and making sure that
they understand the courtprocess.
And it's just an excellentorganization to make sure the
kids.
And so that's one of the thingsthat's happening.
And so I think that the child'srights are not only being
addressed at the time of theirtrauma.
But the continuing factors ofhow the organization follows
(23:13):
this child to make sure thatthey have the best chance of,
turning this this event aroundto, being able to successfully
go through life down the road.
The second one is MusicaFranklin.
So I sit on the board on thatand that is a program that
offers it's an after schoolprogram that is like string,
violin instrument classes forwhat really ends up being kind
(23:38):
of elementary school kids.
So they have a program inGreenfield and they have a
program in Turner's Falls.
So the kids after school, theygo to this program and they
learn how to play the violin orthe guitar.
They also do some choirpractices.
So, the kids get to learn musicat a young age, have a support
community among peers and theykind of get to interact from
(24:01):
other schools too.
So it's bringing multipleschools together and the kids
are able to kind of make friendsoutside of their normal kind of
sphere.
Of classroom.
And they, they, one of their bigthings is also focused on racial
racial justice.
It's, it's a really greatorganization.
All
Glynn (24:18):
Well, now I get to send you back into session.
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you
Michelle (24:22):
so much.
Yes.
It was a great conversation.
Thank you.
Glynn (24:24):
Thank you.
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