77 | From Powerless to Empowered (Are You a Bit F*cked?) - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
the other day we were listening to kids bop in the
car and he was like I just had agreat idea.
What if they made a kids bopbut for adults, where it says
the bad words?
And I was like so the originalsong original like.
So you mean the music I listento in the car all the time.
We were only listening to kidsbop, because l1 l was trying to
explain to us that the song a, b, c, d, e, f, u like how is like

(00:22):
?
c, d, e, f?
U, and your mom and yourbrother and whatever.
I was like, how do they do thatwith kids bop?
And she was trying to explainit to me.
So what do they do?
They say A, b, c, d, e, f,forget you, oh god, yeah.
So I went to kids bop just tolisten, but that was Austin's.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Did you ever have the now yeah, yeah, now 72 with
Cisco?
I saw a meme where it was likecan Cisco do another song, but
about like women's shapewearthat is actually covering on
your bottom, not a thong songLike a tighty-whity song,

(01:04):
tighty-whity song Like a grannypanty songy song like a granny
panty song.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, like a granny panty song some boy short songs,
some oversized t-shirt songs,good lounge set song, yeah, I
mean my jammies songs, myfuzzies my good the good bonnet
and heatless curler song whenyou're wearing nothing but your

(01:27):
slippers.
It's like supposed to be supersexy when you have nothing but
heels on, like what about my?
What about if I'm fully assnaked with my mushroom slippers,
with my fuzzy mushroom slippers?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
is that sexy?
Yeah, can that be.
Let me see those granny panties.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love it Okay, before we get started, I'm
keeping that in there.
Some of that is staying.
You were saying something to meabout something on bravo, which
always all of our conversationslead to something on.
Bravo, I learned so much fromyou.
It's my entire personality thatthat's your roman empire.

(02:13):
It is literally, literally.
But tell me what you weretalking about with the hair
situation.
Wait, what with the girl havingto cut her hair?

Speaker 2 (02:24):
oh, okay, okay.
So, um, there is a housewiveshousewives franchise, um, real
housewives of miami, and thisnew season is the beginning of
the season.
One of the women finds out thatshe has breast cancer.
Okay, and it's a whole thingwith Larsa Pippen.

(02:45):
She like outs to everybody thatthis girl has breast cancer.
Anyways, dude, so you'rewatching her whole journey and
her husband is incrediblysupportive and great.
And then she has very long,beautiful black hair.
She's Haitian and she filmswhen she like chops her hair off

(03:09):
and like gets a buzz cut andshe's like sobbing and she's
very expressive already butshe's sobbing and I saw the
video or the clip get posted onthe internet and so many people
in the comments were so fuckingawful and hateful and we're like
, oh my god, like it's not thatbig of a deal and you know, oh

(03:33):
god, she's so dramatic and I andyou and I have very strong
opinions about this with ourhair.
Yeah, and do you want to gointo that?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, so yeah, you go first.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, so, and so I was just like man, like the lack
of empathy and compassion andalso just the world of social
media, where it's just soinstant.
You think you know people'sstory and like you'd watch one
clip and we get this all thetime on our, on our social media
.
People watch one clip and theythink that they make assumptions
.
They make assumptions, theyhave our podcast figured out.

(04:10):
They have what we talked about,talk about, figured out.
And I'm like, bro, you don'teven know what you're talking
about, dave.
Like, come on.
And so for me, I have hairextensions, I have long hair, I
love my long hair.
There is a reason why I love mylong hair, so I have shared
with listeners that, um, I wasbleemic, uh, growing up before.

(04:34):
I was bleemic as a way offeeling in control over, um, an
environment that I didn't feelcontrol in yeah, I pulled my
hair out, pulled my hair out.
I pulled my hair out, pulled myhair out.
I pulled my eyelashes out.
I pulled my eyebrows outbecause I felt so out of control

(04:55):
in my surroundings.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I don't think I realized that level, that deep
of level, because you were thefirst person I ever microbladed,
like we did, your brows andyou're like they just don't grow
Like.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I didn't realize it was because of that.
I have never said that toanybody besides you and Tony.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh shit, yeah, until now, until now, yeah, damn.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah.
So like me having long hair, mehaving eyebrows, me having just
regular lashes, those are bigdeals for me.
Yeah, like.
So if somebody may assume orstereotype like, oh god, she's
so high maintenance, she hashair extensions, to that I I say
, yeah, also, there's more tothat story, right, always is so.

(05:47):
Um, at that time that was whatI knew and that was a way of
helping me cope.
Yeah, because I didn't have anyother tools to cope.
I didn't have a safe adult, Ididn't have anybody to talk to.
I couldn't escape.
Yeah, you don't have an avenue,so you find other ways to
self-soothe, and that was one ofthe things that I did.

(06:10):
And then, as I got older, therewas a lot of shame around it.
Yeah, and now I'm just going toown it because it is a part of
my story.
So, hair extensions and all.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
I, as an adult, have always had long hair yeah,
always like tied to my long hair.
I never had extensions untilthe last few years.
Um, I didn't need them becausemy hair was always long.
But, um, I realized over thelast few years I have such a
strong opinion on short hair onme, like if you can rock it

(06:51):
totally, but like I have such anaversion to short hair on
myself because I grew up with mymom keeping my hair short.
My hair is very naturally curly.
I don't think she knew what todo with it.
She also had short hair so shewould just cut my hair to match
hers and it was a big deal forme.

(07:13):
Like I always wanted long hair.
My younger sister got to alwayshave long hair.
Can?

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I ask something.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Why did you have to have short hair and then your
sister got to have long hair?
Good question.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I don't fucking know Interesting.
I find that very interesting.
Well, I think it's because mysister had red hair.
She was born a redhead and itwas this long, beautiful, wavy
hair and anytime we would be outwith her like people would
always be like oh my god, yourhair's so beautiful, and talk
about like ugly step sistersyndrome, like we're full

(07:44):
siblings.
But I really had a complex withbecause nobody ever commented
about my hair.
But they were always looking ather hair and commenting and
it's so beautiful and oh my gosh, is it.
Her hair is so red and long andpretty I had to braid it
sometimes, like at night afterour baths, like I would have to
braid my little sister's hairand I would like it's.

(08:05):
You know, you know.
I want to like fucking cut herhair off.
Yeah, that sounds so terrible,but like I, she was always the
favorite, so that really fuckedme up a little bit Interesting.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Because you were the.
What's funny is because you'renot really a rebel.
No, in a lot of ways you arevery much so a rule follower,
even though I know I know peoplelike people are probably like,
so puzzled like really bitchlike no, I will like if there is
like a speed limit.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
I'm following god.
Yes, I don't like to takesnacks into the theater because
I'm afraid we're gonna get getcaught for real.
My husband sneaks into shit allthe time and I'm like I'm not
doing that.
Tony would stress you out somuch.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
So yeah, I'm a rule follower.
What were you going to say withthat?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
I don't remember.
Okay, hang on, give it.
Give it a second.
Um, I don't remember.
I'll, I'll come to it.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Oh, you were like you weren't a rebel oh you're being
the favorite.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
OK, yes, now I know, thank you.
Ok, you weren't a rebel, soit's it's interesting to me that
you were kind of like the rebelin your family, though because
you really black sheep in thesense that like Like you're not
argumentative, you're notconfrontational, you're not, but

(09:28):
you were with your mom.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
I was with my mom.
We butt heads a lot, yeah, um,a lot, a lot, uh, any.
So back to that.
Like I was showing you photosof myself as a kid the other day
, like when I say short hair Idon't mean like shoulder length,
like girl had a fro, I had an,I really did.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
And I hate laughing at that.
It's okay, you can laugh at it.
Those pictures like you have,very like I do not have.
I have fine hair, but I have alot of it.
So it's like I have long hairbut I do extensions for volume
where you have really thick hair, yeah, so like you have such

(10:09):
beautiful hair and you just lookso.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I look like a little old woman.
I really did.
I wore big glass like I know,those glasses are super cute on
you, but those are the kind ofglasses I had to wear as a kid.
Well, they're trendy now.
They weren't trendy then, thankGod.
Like, thank you now for beingtrendy.
But like, yeah, I had bigglasses.
I looked like a little oldwoman.
Like my hair was short like agranny cut.

(10:38):
Like a granny cut, yeah, itwasn't even like a bob no, it
wasn't.
It wasn't cute and it was curlyand brushed out and we're gonna
have to post some of these.
I feel like we have before, butpeople are gonna be searching
for them your kid photos are.
It is like I just rememberedthere was the first time when

(11:00):
jason and I, when my husband Ifirst started dating, I've
always straightened my hair.
Like literally since the momentI discovered what a
straightener was, I'vestraightened it.
I've done keratin treatmentsLike I keep the frizz out.
I do what I need to do to keepit straight.
I don't embrace my natural curland people are like, oh my God,
you should.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
I'm like no, I think that too no.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
What do I know.
But so we had probably beendating at least a good six to
nine months and we go to thelake and I'm like in the water,
I get on the boat, my hair isnaturally drying and he goes
what happened to your hair?
So, anyway, it's just funnybecause we had this talk the

(11:51):
other day, because I I've alwayshad this thing with my hair,
and for a long for like a decadeI would do pink hair or blue
hair.
I've always done color in myhair and it wasn't until like
2020 that I've just been likethis basic ass I don't mean to
say basic like just this, thisnatural color.
It's not my natural color.
But he said I just prefer yourhair natural.
And I'm like don't say that,cause you don't like.
If you prefer my hair natural,you're saying dark with curls,

(12:14):
and he's like well, not likethat Anyway.
So I have always had this thingwith my hair and last year I
had to cut it and I was likedistraught over it.
But I noticed it because I usedto like post a lot more reels
and photos and things with ourInstagram and I noticed, like
you're like you need to postmore of that.
I stopped when my hair got cutand you didn't realize it I

(12:38):
didn't even realize that I wasjust like what happened?
like where did my confidence go?
Like why am I not wanting to bein front of the camera anymore?
That was why how crazy is that?
But the full circle moment here.
So I've always hated shorterhair because I was forced to
have short hair as a kid growingup.
My mom came to stay with me acouple of weeks ago and some of

(13:02):
you may or may not know thatwe've like couple of weeks ago
and, um, some of you may or maynot know that we've like we're
healing we're healing.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
It is what it is.
Um, I think you've you'veaccepted that she is how she's
going to be.
Um, there's nothing I can say,and you're not trying to change
her, convince her of anythingthat should or shouldn't have
happened, and also, I think sheis much more respectful of your
boundaries.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, and she knows she can't.
Yes, and I have something to sayabout that too.
Okay, put a pin in that.
Okay, put a pin in that aboutwhen I was getting my tattoo and
what was said?
Put a pin in that, okay.
Um, so she has been growing herhair out.
It's like waist length nowbecause she's been taking care
of my memo, who is elderly andhas dementia.

(13:50):
And then my aunt has beengrowing her hair out because of
my memo and I was like, oh myGod, my mom grew up like
holiness, couldn't cut her hair,couldn't wear pants, couldn't
wear makeup.
Her, her whole, every female inher family had to have long hair
.
Um, so my mom's short hairthing as I was growing up was

(14:12):
her rebellion against her havingto have long hair as a kid.
And she's doing it now becauseshe's like taking care of my mom
.
My mom was like I wish you'dgrow your hair out, and so she
started growing her hair backout.
But I was like, oh my God, thatfull circle, like I hated
having short hair because my momforced me to have short hair.

(14:32):
And then realizing my mom hadshort hair because her parents
forced her to have long hair.
So wild, it's so wild.
I have like a little bit moreempathy and compassion for like
Her shit.
I have like a little bit moreempathy and compassion for like
her shit.
I have a lot more empathy andcompassion for her shit.
But like that connection to myhair was like holy shit that's
gross, yeah, so I will bewearing extensions until my hair

(14:56):
is this length again becauseyou know, I, I, but you have
compassion for her.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, um, instead of resentment, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
So let me tell you what was said.
The pin all right, take it outjinx.
Um.
So I was getting, uh, some workdone on my tattoo and we were
talking about this and she wasjust like, well, don't you want
to say something to like,shouldn't you say something to
her?
I can't remember exactly whatshe said, but like, wouldn't you
want to tell her?
If she was like being like notable to hear you, and I was like

(15:24):
what would the point of that be, though?
I tried my whole life to gether to see my side of things and
she wasn't able to, and itwould just cause and create more
conflict within myself too.
Yeah, because then I would justbe like, oh, my God, she
doesn't get it.
So, like, bringing it up to hernow, when I know that she, she

(15:46):
is who she is and she is, um, Idon't want to say she's not
capable, because everybody iscapable of changing and
self-reflecting, but doing itwhen she may not be ready is
only going to cause moredistress in the relationship.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
That is unnecessary that's growth, right, yeah, and
you're, I think before, becauseI'm guilty of this too so much
and still a little bit.
But trying to control whereit's like you I can't.
They can only meet you wherethey are Right.
It just, it is what it is andyou can try until you die.

(16:24):
Accepting that.
Yeah Right, it just it is whatit is and you can try until you
die accepting that.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a hard lesson, butalso it's a necessary lesson.
Yeah, and so, anyway, that's mystory about my hair and yours.
Yeah, so just knowing that,like there's always something,
there's always something deeperthan the surface.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, so many, so many of um like friends have
reached out since I've done thispodcast and they're like I had
no idea.
I had no idea that it was thatintense.
I had no idea that youstruggled that much.
And I'm like, well, yeah, Ididn't tell you, right, I
struggled with safety withinmyself and with other people.
So I I I didn't know a lot ofthese things myself and so I

(17:03):
wasn't going to share it withyou, right?

Speaker 1 (17:05):
So I'm You're just now learning all these things
about yourself Literally.
We're like learning as we'regrowing and healing I feel like
that's a phenomenon too is likethe more you heal, the more you
learn about yourself and alsohave compassion and empathy for
other people around you and whatthey may or may not be going

(17:27):
through and where they are andtheir capacity to hold things
versus yours.
Yeah yeah.
So where I am now is a verydifferent place than I think
where my mom is, so I'm able tohold where she is and to see it
for what it is, and I don't wantto disrupt that for her.

(17:48):
I'm not trying to force her tobe anything.
It still hurts.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I think that grief will always, that type of grief,
will always be there.
It doesn't necessarily go away.
You just learn to sit with it alittle bit better.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
So let's, let's go into healing a little bit bit
better.
So let's, let's go into healinga little bit.
I didn't even mean to do that,but that did that.
So I wanted to do this with youtoday, um, because I've been.
I some of you know my husbandis an alcoholic in recovery.

(18:21):
He went through the 12 steps.
Um, we have touched on a littlebit of that.
But when he started the program, like I bought the book for
myself, for myself, not evenlike I wanted to understand
where he was going in thisjourney and I didn't want to, um
, I didn't want to, like, not bea part of it.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's one of the things I love most about you.
What that like?
He's doing something so youdive right in, so you learn all
about it.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Unless it's his work stuff, cause I don't know
anything about tech stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
But when it's when it comes to like him, his healing,
his growth, him becoming better, you becoming better, um you
guys growing together yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's.
It's kind of reminds me of likewhen I was first pregnant.
You know that book everybodyreads.
That's like um yeah.
I don't even remember thefucking name of it, but it's
like what to expect when you'reexpecting yes.
I wanted him to read it with me.
And he was like, why, like hedidn't understand that.
And I was like, why, like hedidn't understand that.
And I was like, because I wantyou to understand what I'm going
through at the same time thatI'm going through it.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
That's what I mean.
A lot of people may not be likethat or get it in that way
where you want to understand.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
I want to understand.
You want to learn why they arethe way that they are and why
they do what they do Like you godown that rabbit hole Right.
So I understand the 12 steps tothe degree that I understand
them.
To the degree that I understandthem because I've never worked
the program but I was thereevery step of the way and
understood which ones wereprobably going to be really hard
for him.
But I want to talk about thisbecause literally from the time

(20:01):
I read it I immediately was likehold on a minute.
These are like integrationsteps when you do like a
psychedelic journey.
This is like these are steps tohealing and I already knew at
that point, like the wholehistory of Bill Wilson and doing
LSD and it being a part of theculture of AA before the 60s

(20:27):
came and knocked that out of theway.
It was an underground thing, itwas a big part of AA is that LSD
spiritual experience?
We don't have to get into thatright now, we don't have to get
into the history of it.
We have posts on that and wehave talked about it before.
So as I'm reading the book andthe steps, I'm like, okay, bill

(20:50):
Wilson fucking got it.
Like these are literally likesteps to integrating a
psychedelic experience but alsosteps to healing, yeah, period.
So if there's anything that AAhas gotten right since then,
this is it.
So hear me out.
You do not have to be analcoholic to follow these steps.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Can I say why I wanted to do this episode today?
Yeah, okay.
So I came to Leah and I waslike I feel like there are
certain people that we know thatare healing.
They're healing, they're doingthe breath work, they're doing
the therapy, they're doing thepsychedelic journeys, they're

(21:34):
doing all of these things to belike I'm doing the work but
you're not and you're not andyou're not and you're not.
And I'm here and you're downhere and you need to get on my
level, which we have said thosethings before as well Like my

(22:00):
vibration is here and I wantpeople to meet us here, but
there is um.
Vibration is here and I wantpeople to meet us here, but
there is um.
There is a lack ofaccountability that comes with
it, or self-awareness, andself-awareness and
self-reflection, and also a lackof yes, this may be happening
in this relationship with thisperson and I may feel that they

(22:22):
did this, but is there a waythat I also contributed it to?

Speaker 1 (22:26):
this as well, so you literally brought this to me.
Like people should bereflecting on what they are
doing, like how they arecontributing to the problem.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
It's not just this person's projection.
Yes, because and I thinkoftentimes I'm guilty of it, I
know you're guilty of it whereit's like I'm a victim.
They did this to me and, andyou know, again, in our
childhood it was unfair.
I said earlier, I felt like Icouldn't escape.

(22:57):
I didn't have, you know, copingmechanisms that were, um,
healthy and but it it got to apoint where I wasn't in that
situation anymore, I wasn't inthat environment, I could make
my own choices, but I still hadtoxic patterns, yeah, and then I
had to be like, okay, like I'mfucking me up.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes, you are.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
It's on me now.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
That's going to make more sense when you hear what I
have to say.
Yes, you are bitch yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
It's on like what do I need to do?
Well, it's like what I wassaying, because I can't control
A, b, c, d, but I can control me, right?
So what is it that I need to do?
And then, you know, with themushroom journey was like, oh
fuck, I've got like a lot oftoxic patterns and behaviors and
, yes, I may have chose toxicpartners, but also I chose toxic

(23:50):
partners because I was toxic aswell.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
They may have been toxic because they cheated on me
and you know, had abusivetendencies or whatever.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
But like there was something you were doing.
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I, I was attracted to that, I, I stayed in it.
I you know there's so much toit, and so that sometimes
bothers me to see where I seethis kind of like righteousness
and ego and I'm like have youchecked yourself Right?

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Sir ma'am, and it's easy to say now, versus like
four or five years ago and Iused to be this person too like
I was the victim and I was Iabsolutely was married to an
alcoholic.
Sure, I on the outside lookedvery much like a victim, and
where I am now is like even Ihad a role to play in that.

(24:43):
I did, I didn't defend myself,I didn't want to sever
connections, so I stayed.
I apologized when I shouldn'thave been apologized.
I apologized for my feelings, Iapologized for getting upset.
You know I played a role in myown suffering.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, well, you are a very vocal former.
People pleaser, yeah, Peoplepleasing is a form of
manipulation.
It's not a flex, yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
It is not a flex, it is manipulation to be liked by
everybody, and it's, it'smanipulation wrapped in a pretty
bow.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Because it looks like you're the person who's going
to go above and beyond, butreally you're doing it because
you don't want to sever anyconnections.
You want people to like you forwhat you do for them.
Yeah, and it's.
It's really a disservice toyourself.
It's a disservice to the otherpeople too, because then, when
you do start putting upboundaries and you do start

(25:42):
saying no, they are like what?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
I don't like that.
You're not as cool as I thoughtyou were and it's like well
then, you didn't know me, right,because that wasn't me, that
was just me, people pleasing,that was me sucking your ass.
Literally, literally.
And I don't want to suck yourass anymore.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I don't want to do it anymore.
It's gross.
No more ass sucking for us, nomore um, but it's a hard pattern
to break out of too, thatpeople please say I've gotten so
much better at it, but it'sstill.
You know, when it's difficult,it's when it's like if it's with
somebody that we really dogenuinely love and appreciate we

(26:19):
were just talking about this.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, if and I tell you this all the time If you
come at me all saucy and sassy,guess what?
Come and wrap it, I'm not goingto feel as bad, okay, you know,
yeah, I would be like, yeah,easy, uh, no, dog.
But if you're like sweet, likeyou, you want to spend time, and
I'm just like, no, I'm justemotionally tapped out.

(26:43):
It's not personal, it's.
It's a lot harder for me to sayno, because I'm not trying to
sever the bond there, but I amtrying to protect yourself, I'm
just trying to protect myself,that's all.
Yeah, and that that is reallytough and that's something that
I'm still very much stillworking on.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
So, okay, you want to get into it, let's get into it.
Let's get into it, let's getinto it.
Let's get into it.
30 minutes later, whatever,it's fine.
Um, so one of the things that Ihave been vocal about this too
is, like step one in um aa is toadmit that you're powerless,
and I hate that step becauseyou're not, but I'm retracting

(27:22):
that statement.
Okay, I think it's necessary inthe beginning.
Why I think you have to?
Because you are.
You have to admit it, becauseyou are powerless to that
substance or in a situation.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
So let's take like yeah, give some examples.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I want to say well, my husband was powerless to
alcohol, like alcohol had acontrol over him.
The goal is to become empowered, but you're not there yet.
So before I was like I don'tlike saying you're powerless to
anything because you're not, butlike there are a lot of people
who are powerless in theirdynamics, in their relationship,

(27:59):
in their work environment, intheir take alcohol out of it,
take drugs and alcohol out of it.
You can be powerless.
In this, I was powerless.
So the first step to AA isadmitting that.
What were you powerless to?
Oh God, I didn't have a voice.
I was.

(28:21):
I was powerless to honestlylike honoring myself and loving
myself Like I didn't have that.
Is that a good enough answer?
Yeah, I was powerless because Ithought I was stuck in a
situation and I was never goingto get out of it, and that's
just not true.
But I feel like at the time Ihad to admit that I was.
So that's only the first step.

(28:43):
So I retract my statement aboutlike that not being a first
step.
Okay.
Also, I was going to bring theAA book, but I couldn't find it,
so I found this one instead.
This is what my husband startedwith and a lot of people are
opposed to AA because of thereligious parts of it.
This takes the religion out ofit, but it's Russell Brand's
book recovery.
But I love it because while thefirst step in um, in aa, is

(29:12):
admitting that you're powerless,his first step is are you a bit
fucked?
I love that.
Are you a?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
bit fucked.
This is gonna be so muchsaucier than.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
I know, I know Like add a little spicy.
Yeah, it's like the guy yeah.
Um, so are you a bit fucked.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, I used to be very fucked.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Is there something in your life that you can't change
, and what is it?
And are you powerless in thissituation?
Are you fucked?
Admit that to yourself, becauseI think a lot of people
especially in alcoholics or drugaddicts or I mean anyone really
they're like no, no, no, no,I'm not powerless to it.

(29:58):
I'm not.
I'm not powerless to it.
I'm not fucked Like.
I can stop anytime.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
So there's a lack of self-awareness and also like
self, like you, have to holdyourself accountable.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah.
And so this says like you knowit's, it's, it's got.
You have to have a level ofhonesty, because addiction,
replaced with the word addictionwith, like any situation that
you are unhealed in or stuck in,causes a level of denial that
can be quite challenging.
So I was in denial, like evenwhen I was in my lowest

(30:31):
depressive episodes.
I was just I was in denialabout it.
Like how can I be depressed?
Like look at my life.
I have three healthy kids.
Like I have a husband who cooksand cleans and provides.
And why am I depressed?
There's no reason to be Like Iwas in denial about my literal
existence, like being as bad asit was, and it wasn't until I

(30:53):
woke up that I was like, oh myGod, this is why I've been
depressed, like I've been livingin this shit for so long that
it was normal to me.
So, yeah, there's a level.
You have to be honest.
So, no matter how much you pushsomeone into recovery and again
, take this to like any unhealedperson so like, let's take this
back to my mom, I don't knowhow much healing she's done, it

(31:15):
doesn't matter.
But no matter how much you pushsomeone into recovery, unless
they accept that there's aproblem.
It's impossible.
So I cannot force my mom to bewhere I am in my healing.
It is all on me.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
So, yeah, the first step is like admitting that
you're powerless over something.
Once you admit that, that it'sin control of you and not the
other way around, then you cango to the next step oh, okay,
okay, okay, um, which is I'mjust going to do Russell Brands.
Okay, do it.

(31:57):
Yeah, could you not be fucked?
So in AA, it's having faiththat, like there's a possibility
that you could get better right, like have a little bit of
faith that this program willwork.
So in this situation, it's likecould you not be fucked?

(32:19):
For?
Just think about it.
Think about a life where you'renot powerless anymore, where
you have a voice, where you can,where you are able to make
changes.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
So it makes me think of so what I was talking about
earlier, where someone isconstantly a victim and it's
like I'm in this bad, badmarriage and they're doing this,
they're doing that, they'redoing this, they're doing that,
but it's all.
They, they, they, them, yeah,Whereas it needs to be.

(32:55):
What can I do about this?
Could you leave?
Is he willing to change?
Is she willing to change?
Could you?

Speaker 1 (33:03):
speak up.
Is that a possibility?
Could you get help?
Is that a?

Speaker 2 (33:06):
possibility.
Yeah, am I contributing to thisin some way?
That I need to heal and growand change still?

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Right.
So, yeah, faith, you need toaccept that there is.
This is where people get lostand they get stuck and they
remove themselves from thiswhole program.
Because this is like acceptthat there's a higher power in
the universe other than yourself.
It can be God.
It can's a higher power in theuniverse other than yourself.
It can be God.
It can be a higher power.
You can just say it's theuniverse conspiring in your

(33:34):
favor.
It doesn't have to be God andit doesn't have to be religious,
but like just trust that thereis a possibility that things
will work out for you.
That's all.
Step two is just having faith.
Okay.
Step three work out for you.
That's that's all.
Step two is just having faith.
Okay, um.
Step three um, are you, on yourown, going to unfuck yourself?

(34:01):
I fucking love these.
You might want to read thisbook.
It's actually really good.
I mean he's like referring tolike his addictions, but like I
swear to God, this can go forjust so good, literally anything
so good, um, so yeah.
So now that you've accepted ahigher power and you welcome
them by surrendering, um, uh,blah, blah, blah, focus on the
true meaning of your life so youcan feel like a valuable member

(34:21):
of society again.
So, really, the third step issurrender.
But like, really he's saying,like, are you on your own going
to unfuck yourself?
So, so, just surrendering tothe fact that, like, there's a
possibility.
Step four this is where a lotof people get stuck in AA, my
husband included.
This is the hardest one andthis is why we brought this up
earlier.
Um, write down all the thingsthat are fucking you up or ever

(34:47):
have fucked you up, and don'tlie or leave anything out.
Now, this is where you alsohave to, like Jason, my husband
had to write a list ofresentments and who they were
towards, and he had pages ofthem and then out beside it he
had to write.

(35:07):
After he was done listing themout, had to write the role he
played in it.
You don't get to skip that part.
You don't get to skip it.
You can sit here and write alist of grievances that people
have fucked you over and peoplehave done to you, and then you
literally have to go back andout beside it, write the thing

(35:28):
that you did.
So this is like impossible toskip.
That like self-reflection, thatself-awareness part, you can't.
I love that.
So this is in real life too,yes, so okay, my, I'm just going
to give this as an example.

(35:49):
You know, I would haveresentments like um, you went
out all night and you didn'ttell me where you're going and
you didn't come home and yourphone was off and I resent you
for that.
And then the role that I playedwell, he did that all the time
and I never really held himaccountable for it and, of

(36:11):
course, he would continue to doit because there were never any
repercussions.
You accepted it and I acceptedit, and I would be mad for a
minute and then I would belovey-dovey again because he
didn't like when I was mad and Ididn't want to sever that
connection.
Wow, wow.
So I would get the silenttreatment because I was mad, and
then I would like stop beingmad.

(36:32):
So I wasn't getting the silenttreatment anymore.
Wow, so it's a real fucked upway of like.
Well, but I contributed to that.
It's kind of like what you'vealways said Like you teach
people how to treat you.
Yeah, you know, like I didn'tdo what I, I didn't love myself
enough to like put a stop to it,not even just to put a stop to
it, because, again, I couldn'tcontrol what he was doing, but I

(36:54):
could have removed myself fromthe situation, I could have done
something different.
So it's back on me.
Well, I could have donesomething different Right.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
And for me, let's say , with my past partners, I
constantly dated men thatcheated on me.
Yeah, always, I mean that wasjust the norm.
But yes, I was unlike you inthe sense where I would speak up
, we would break up all of that,but something I learned about

(37:23):
myself and I would blame them.
They cheated on me.
Fuck them, go to another one.
Oh, he cheated on me.
Fuck him, go to another one.
He cheated on me.
Fuck him, go to another one.
Why was I attracted to thosetype of men?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
You've had to do that work.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, I liked the drama and the chaos because that
was what was familiar for me.
So it's like, yes, those mendid those things, but there were
so many red flags that Iignored, yeah, and I was
gravitated to them, knowingthose things about them and

(38:00):
knowing that they like deep inmy gut, in my heart, knowing
that they weren't the right manfor me.
Right, it's what I felt like Ideserve.
Were you a fix, a hoe.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I was a fix a hoe.
I loved an asshole.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
You also like, loved, like the challenge of forcing
someone to love you.
That and, like I, I likedcombativeness, yeah, like.
So I wasn't like you.
Where I would you know, bowdown?
Oh, I would fight back, yeah,but I also liked that drama of
the fighting, like I wasattracted to to fighting.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, I'm a fighter.
That makes a lot of fuckingsense.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, so it's like so again.
For a long time it was there anasshole, there an asshole,
there an asshole.
But it's like so again.
For a long time it was they'rean asshole, they're an asshole,
they're an asshole, but it'slike bitch, you had some toxic
shit too, right oh okay.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
So what russell?
What he says is, yeah, writethings down that you've ever
fucked, that are fucking you upor have ever fucked you up, and
don't lie or leave anything out.
And then the aa step is likecalled.
It's like soul searching.
It's a process just likerecovery.
There's no single moment thatdefines healing.
Instead, it's a culmination ofintentions and actions that lead
you down the right path.
Soul searching involves lookingobjectively inwards at yourself

(39:20):
.
So soul searching is the thingthat helps you become a better
person.
I love that.
Um, not pointing fingers,you're.
It's like that old saying whenyou point fingers, you got three
more pointing right back at you.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think of that meme where it's like Spider-Man and
they're all like, they're allpointing at each other.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah and it's like actually no, you are
the problem, yeah, you are alsothe solution, though yes like
you might be the problem, butyou're also the solution and how
empowering can that be well ifyou let it get through all this
stuff and you'll get to thepoint where you're empowered,
all right.
Step five is integrity in thereal book.

(40:02):
But in his book, in russellbrand's book, it's honestly,
tell someone trustworthy abouthow fucked you are.
So so Jason had a sponsor.
This is why sponsors are soimportant in AA because he could
go to his sponsor and be openand honest about.
I'm going to be honest with you, I've never seen his list, his
step four list, never seen it.

(40:24):
But his sponsor has, and hissponsor worked over it with him
like every single one of them,whereas me I'm like.
But how many pages were aboutme?
How many?
Because there were a lot ofresentments he had towards me,
like he resented that I gotpregnant and that's something I

(40:44):
couldn't help.
I mean, I could.
Let me take that he resented mefor getting pregnant
accidentally when I was 23.
And it forced him to be a dad,and but his role in that was
well, I had unprotected sex withmy girlfriend at the time and I
was never careful and so that'son me, my bad Right, right,

(41:06):
it's not just you.
I can't resent you for forchoosing to have the baby who
made me a father right right, hewas an active participant.
But that stuck.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
That resentment held on to our relationship for the
next 15 years you know, becauseyou guys probably never really
talked about it, or no?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
had that hard conversation.
Nope, we just went immediatelyinto being young parents before
we were ready and it took awayfrom his party and drinking, but
he resented me for it gotchaanyway.
So integrity like these are thetypes of things that he had to
talk with his sponsor about sohonestly.
For me that's part of likemaybe having a support group,
having friends that you canhonestly and openly talk to

(41:48):
about what you're going throughand understanding the role that
you played in it.
But while like talking back andforth with a friend, possibly
like he did a, b and C, but I'mdoing this, this and this and
there might be a differentperspective and he probably sees
it a different way and or theyprobably see it a different way,
you know, it doesn't have to behe, can be she.

(42:09):
Whatever the situation is, Ithink it's good to have that
person that you can go back andforth with.
Um.
Six is acceptance.
So Russell Brand says well,that's a lot of fucked up
patterns.
Do you want to stop it?
Seriously, that's the.
That's the name of this chapter.

(42:30):
In AA it's called acceptance.
It's where you accept that like, oh shit, I've done a lot of
fucked up shit.
Addiction is often underpinnedby low self-esteem and a
negative opinion of yourself,and once you learn to accept
that everyone has both good andbad characteristics, it'll be
easier to accept yourself.
Sometimes, the hardest aspectof acceptance is letting go of

(42:52):
the painful stories we tellourselves about the past.
However, once you accept yourhistory, you can start telling
yourself now happy stories aboutyour future.
Um so, anyway, yeah, this islike all right now that you've
accepted that, there's thisissue like how are we moving
forward?
Do you want to stop doing whatyou're doing?

(43:13):
No, but really do you?
Okay, then let's, let's work onthat.
Um seven is are you willing tolive in a new way?
That's not all about you andyour previous fucked up stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Do a lot of people get stuck on that step?
Because I feel like we get alot of comments where it's like
hey, I want to change, but I'mnot willing to change.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Right, but that's going to be really hard.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
So like, yeah, I want to still keep my life, I still
want to keep these patterns.
But I just want to feel betterand I'm like okay, so you're not
ready to change yet, Cause youhave to change things.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Right?
Or what about the people whohave reached out to us and said
I really want to do somethinglike this, like with mushrooms
or a journey, but they're like.
But what if it?
What if it says that, like Ishouldn't be with my husband?
What if I get a divorce afterthis?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And it's so funny because it's like that's what
people say right off the batyeah, I want to do this, but I'm
worried I'm going to divorce myhusband.
Well, is that is?
Are there problems?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Or in Tony's situation, I don't.
I want to do this, but I'mafraid I'm going to quit my job.
And then what's he do?
He quits his job.
But I know he already had it inyour head.
We know that mushrooms didn'tput that in there it was already
there, right?
They're not going to force youto do anything, right, but where
?

Speaker 2 (44:33):
for me doing mushrooms.
That wasn't even a thought.
Yeah With with, with Tony, mypartner, because it was that,
like, I knew that he wassupportive and willing to grow
and evolve with me and if, like,we need to do something, he
would do it.
Yeah, so that wasn't even thatwasn't even on my radar.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I think it's on a lot of people's radar because it's
what they think.
I think it's their subconscioustelling them something's off,
yeah.
So again, don't be afraid oflike.
If it's in your head, it's inthere for a reason, but
mushrooms aren't going to forceyou to divorce your husband or
quit your job.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Well and and you never know, maybe mushrooms and
healing will hold you bothaccountable and you both will
heal and grow together.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah.
Um, just doesn't have to just bedivorce.
So in the real steps.
Step seven instead of it being,are you willing to live in a
new way?
That's not all about you ishumility.
So this says antisocialbehaviors such as alcohol,
drinking alcohol or doing drugsand or withdrawing from peers

(45:41):
often stems from a confusedsense of self.
When you let go and ask ahigher power for help, you will
relieve a huge weight ofpressure from your life.
So that's just.
I don't know how to like relatethose two.
I know it's the same step, butI think that confused sense of

(46:03):
self is there Often a lot.
Like we don't know much aboutwho we are and what we want.
I guess that's the thing.
Like you think you don't wantto divorce your husband, but
like that's the thing thatyou're afraid of happening.
Well, yeah, why, there's asense, there's something they're
telling you.
Anyway, all right.
Step eight prepare to apologizeto everyone for everything
affected by your being so fuckedup.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I think I've, I've, I've said this, but after my
first mushroom journey I went ona little apology tour.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I.
That happens with a lot ofpeople.
I've had a few people who do amushroom journey and then go on
an apology tour.
I was somebody who was afighter.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah.
So I was going to look forsomething to fight with you
about or look for something tobe angry angry with you about,
not just romantic relationshipswith you know, just people in my
life.
And so there were a lot ofpeople who I messaged and I was
like, hey, I'm, I'm really sorry, I was such an asshole in high
school, Like I was.
Just I was angry, I, I, youknow, was not having a great

(47:05):
time at home and I projected itonto you because it's not a fun
time, right?
Bad vibes all around.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Yeah, but I projected 10 out of 10.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
would not recommend would like a refund, please, um,
but I projected it onto peoplewho didn't cut me, yeah.
And although, yes, I was avictim during that time, like
they were also victims of mywrath as well.
Yeah, because I had a sharp asstongue and if I were coming at

(47:37):
you, yeah, you weren't going towin.
So that's, that's something Ihad to learn to be accountable
for.
And now it's to the point whereI'm like I love my strength and
I love my voice and I love that, but I'm very like I don't be
soft.
I don't know how to be soft,but you're getting better.
You are getting better, yeah,but I'm very like I'm conscious

(47:59):
of, I don't want to hurt you.
I still want to say what I wantto say, yeah, but I don't want
to.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings and I'm
working on how to say it.
Yeah, which takes time.
It's all into the delivery, sothat makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes I don't know how todeliver.
Does anybody until they likestart Well, and sometimes the
delivery is different based onthe person who you're delivering
it to.
It's work, it's about learningeach other's languages.
That's hard, um, so that one'sjust preparing to apologize.
So, like you have to get intothis, okay.

(48:32):
So step eight in the real a is,like the willingness you'll
write a list of people you'veharmed.
Ponder carefully over youractions instead of feeling
guilty or wallowing in it.
Think of ideas to make amends.
Um, genuinely show awillingness to make amends with
that.
Now, when, um, my husband got tothis step, it's hard because,

(48:53):
like you think you're like oh myGod, I have to do like a whole
ass list of everybody I've hurtin my entire life.
No, like, if they're importantto you, yes, if they're in your
immediate life, yes, if there issomething that happened 20
years ago and you're still likedealing with the shame and the
guilt of it, yes, even if you'renot in you know conversation,

(49:16):
even if you're not in directcontact with that person anymore
, like if you're still livingwith that guilt and that shame,
then yeah, make them, put themon your Um.
So the next step is nowapologize, unless that would
make things worse.
Ah, so there, ha, there werepeople on his list where he was.

(49:38):
Like it would probably hurt mymarriage if I reached out to
this person and apologize.
I don't, I don't know.
I'm just making that up, Idon't know.
But like, if it's not, if it'snot helpful, if it's, if it's
not going to help you or theother person, if it's just going
to do them harm, then don't doit.
I think another thing with thisis um, let's say I'm going to

(50:04):
use this as an example.
Let's say you cheated on.
Let's say you cheated on.
Let's say I cheated on someone,like 20 years ago in high
school.
I'm not gonna reach out to thatperson and tell them I cheated
on them.
No, they're gonna be like cool,I'm married with three kids and
two dogs, right, they'd be likecool, I cheated on you too,
awesome, like that's more of thestory, you know.

(50:26):
But, um, yeah, unless it's,it's not gonna be helpful,
unless it would make thingsworse.
So the next step, step 10.
Technically it's maintenance,but he says watch out for fucked
up thinking and behavior and behonest when it happens.
So I really like the way hissponsor does this, because he

(50:48):
does like a um, a check-in everynight.
Did I do anything today?
That doesn't align with myvalues?
Now, and there have been timesyou know this, his sponsor is a
lawyer there have been timeslike he lied to a client about
not being able to see thembecause he had another lunch
scheduled, but he really didn't,he just made up an excuse and

(51:10):
he'll like go and he'll call theclient and be like I'm really
sorry, I actually didn't havesomething scheduled I can get
you, you know, like, becausethat's how much it felt, like
that shame and that guilt,that's how much it fucks with
you.
So like um, being honest aboutyour behavior and fixing it
immediately.
And I think Jason has gottenreally good at that Like, even

(51:34):
like if we're fighting and hesays something out of pocket,
like, and we both have like I'vesaid it too, Like I'll say
something out of pocket and belike I'm really sorry, that was
low blow, you know, but likejust making sure that, like
you're maintaining the integrityand the values that you want to
maintain.
Like don't slip off the beatenpath.

(51:56):
Like make sure that you'rebeing honest with people that
you love, make sure you're doingthe right thing, um, and when
you're not, just fix it.
It's that simple.
You don't have to beat yourselfup over it, just just fix it.
So, in healing, too.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I like that you brought that up, because I feel
like that's something that Icould totally work on.
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yeah, it's hard yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Apologizing is really , really, really difficult.
Yeah, yeah, especially to yourpartner it really is.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
I feel like that's where it's the hardest.
It's the hardest.
Where it's the hardest, it'sthe hardest.
We went through like a wholeyear where he was like you never
apologize, and I'd be like,yeah, because I apologized for
so long and fuck you, I'm notapologizing.
I don't, you don't deserveapologies.
And now I'm like I'm sorry, ittakes a while, yeah, to get to a
place.
Yeah, I remember he saidsomething like you know, if you

(52:43):
yell at the kids, you don'tapologize.
I was like, actually I do, I do.
If I'm not fixing itimmediately, then it's fixed at
bedtime and you just don't seeit.
Yeah, but I really do apologizeto the kids and most of the
time it's crazy because I'll goand I'll be like I'm really
sorry, I yelled at you earlierand Austin will be like when.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I'm like oh, that's okay, that's who I find easy to
apologize to the kids.
Yeah, it is, and I think that'sbecause I was that kid who
never got apologized to, so nowit's easy for me to do it
because I don't want to beanything like that.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, but then when it comes to a partner, different
ball games, it's so hard and Ithink we should maybe like even
talk about that in an episode,how hard it is to apologize.
I think for me in my situation,I always apologized first
because I didn't want to severthat connection and I was that

(53:36):
people pleaser.
So apologizing coming out ofthat era was like a new learned
thing, like I had to learn howto apologize and before it was
apologizing in a manipulativeway, not because I was sorry for
anything, but because I was,I'm sorry, I got mad, I want

(53:57):
attention no fuck.
No, I shouldn't have been a.
Sorry that I got mad Like youwere out doing God knows what,
leaving me alone with kids andnot calling me back Like I
should have been mad.
I'm not going to apologize forthat shit anymore, right?
So, yeah, learning how toapologize and mean it yeah Was a
journey for me.
Yeah, so it's.
It's hard, it's fucking hard,your hives are wild right now

(54:20):
Are they.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Yeah, I don't know why Are you nervous?
No, okay, good.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Maybe because I'm talking about this shit that
like used to happen and it'slike yeah, body keeps the score.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
You know when people are like oh, I just sent an
email to my boss holding myboundaries, and then they have a
glass and they're like, eventhough they're like trying to be
strong, they're just inside.
It's like I.
This is the dog I have in meand it's like a little chihuahua
shaking listen, I can talkabout this stuff now.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
I don't feel like I'm getting hives, but, yes, like
this stuff is really hard for me.
Okay, um, the step stayconnected to your new
perspective.
So basically, just like, stayin line with your values.
Like remember your highercalling I don't even like saying

(55:16):
higher, higher self like whoyou want to be.
Like remember to to stay inline with the values of the
person that you want to be, umthe role model being yourself.
Like make sure that you'restaying in line with that.
So the last step is look atlife less selfishly.

(55:38):
Be nice to everyone and helppeople if you can.
Now in AA, it's service.
Service is all about action.
The stage is the rest of yourlife and involves implying
everything you learned in AA tohelp build a brighter future for
yourself.
Now I'm gonna take that andremove it from the AA.
They talk about this in AA alot because they're like once
you've gotten through the steps,you can be of service to other

(55:58):
people, but you have to getthrough the steps first.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
So it's like Jason's sponsor.
Yes, like how he was an addict.
Yes, jason's sponsor.
Yes, like how he was an addictyes, Healed himself.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Yes, Then became a sponsor to then help Jason, yes.
And so Jason, now that he'sthrough with this, I don't think
he'll ever be a sponsor becausehe's kind of um, I don't want
to say removed himself from theAA model, but it's just a very
restrictive model and we can gointo that in another episode.
I just don't.
They talk about all thesethings, but they don't give you

(56:33):
enough tools.
They think that this is theonly tool you need, and I don't
agree with that.
So, with these 12 steps, Idon't agree that these are the
only steps.
It might be steps for someonewho needs something tangible,
but there needs to be tools, andthere are no tools in what I've
seen.
There might be in otherchapters.
I'm not saying there aren't,but when you are removing

(56:54):
yourself from a substance or adrink or and you are having to
learn to sit with your feelingswithout numbing, what are the
tools that are going to help youdo that in a safe way?
Like do you have groundingtechniques?
Have you tried breath work?
Do you meditate?
Do you talk to a therapist?
Like are you, do you have thesetools that you can revert back

(57:17):
to so when things get hard.
You're not like itching for adrink or drugs or whatever it
was.
That was your choice of.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
And, like for us, I feel like you know we, we will
do mushrooms a heroic journeyonce a year, maybe every nine,
ten months or whatever.
But then there are also thingsI do every day, yeah, literally
every day, yeah, that I have tokeep up with right and that
could even be learning to say noto somebody, I don't know.

(57:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Yeah, in a nice way, in a soft way.
Well, and Jason meditates everymorning Like, so does Tony.
He does his cold showers in themorning.
So does Tony.
He doesn't do ice baths but likehe probably would if we had one
, but like he will do a cold.
I hear him in the morning everymorning.
I'm like I can't do it, bro.

(58:11):
I can barely like wash myconditioner out with cold hair I
mean with cold water, like Itry.
So he has tools in his toolboxon top of these steps, yeah, um,
yeah.
So that's the steps to healingand transformation.
I love that and I really likethe last step being of service.
Um, I have like a shortenedversion of it, like that's like

(58:33):
when you like reach yourtransformation or your awakening
phase.
I really like that, yeah, andit doesn't mean that you're
enlightened or you're.
So your little bracelet.
So I made this bracelet for jJason when he started AA,
because it has um a crystal foreach step.
Um, and the last two crystal orthe last set is like um a

(58:56):
quartz.
That stands for transformation,because it's like you get to
there and then you're like alllike a pretty crystal.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
That's so sweet um, so, yeah, I I gave this bracelet
to someone a couple of weeksago off of my wrist.
I had one on my wrist and I waslike I've never made it for
people, like I've always.
I made one for Jason, I madeone for me.
I've never sold it, I've nevermade it for anybody and I was
like I feel like you need thismore than I do and don't take it

(59:24):
for, don't like take it forwhat it's worth to you, but like
it doesn't necessarily have tobe aa steps.
Yeah, this is a journey oftransformation yeah, where can
people get the bracelet?

Speaker 2 (59:37):
oh, you want me to sell my?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
shit, yeah, um, we, I have an estee shop where I make
crystal bracelets and stuff andI think that this is like maybe
my sign that I need to startdoing that again, because I kind
of took a break for a littlebit and I still take orders.
But I really like the ideabehind this one because it just
reminds you that like this isalso not linear and healing is

(01:00:00):
never linear and you're neverdone, and so once you get to
that like transformation phase,like there might be something
else that comes up in your lifewhere you feel powerless and
you're going to have to gothrough all these steps again,
that self-reflection part of itis huge.
Like how many things have youand I gone through literally
since we started this journey?
And it feels daunting at thetime and then we get through it.

(01:00:22):
We do our steps.
We don't, but we do.
We did them without evenknowing we were doing them.
What role am I playing in this?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
the apology tours like yeah anyway, I think it's
really cool okay, you should getthis book, I will puff puff
pass.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
All right, I have been, I've had this game for
fucking years and never playedit, because I don't smoke enough
to play.
I don't smoke at all and I alsofeel like if I played this as a
real smoking game, I would besilent the entire time, like I

(01:01:01):
would be in a corner completelysilent.
But I love this game.
It's called Puff Puff Pass andyou play it with your friends
while you're high.
But as I started lookingthrough them, I was was like we
don't have to be high to playthis I mean we microdose.
that counts, yeah, totallycounts.
So I'm gonna pull a card foryou, okay.
Okay, that one's dumb you, I'ma fine one, okay, okay, this

(01:01:29):
isn't, this isn't like.
Okay, you know what.
You go first, you're going tolike.
You go first, just pick a card.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Oh, not trivia.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
No, don't do trivia.
You do like the blue ones, orthe red ones, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Yeah, you're definitely going to have to cut
some of this.
I can do that, oh my god.
Okay, who?
Oh, these are no.
Who would be the most?

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
likely to survive a zombie apocalypse, and why?
Out of me and you, I guess, outof me and you, yeah, to survive
that's hard.
You know why that's hard?
Because I feel like we would Tosurvive.
That's hard.
You know why that's hard?
Because I feel like we wouldboth survive and I feel like we
have different skill sets.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
We absolutely do.
Okay, so how about this?
What would your skill set be ina zombie apocalypse?
Oh, what would you bring to thetable?

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
bitch, and then what would I bring to the table?
That's a really tough question.
I just feel like I wouldsurvive.
I would be really good atmaking friends with people who
have other skill sets is what Iwould do.
I would be really good friendswith the gardener.
I would be really good friendswith the people who had all the

(01:03:16):
firearms.
I'm just a friendly person.
You'd be really popular.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
I would just be really popular and everybody
would be nice to me.
Okay, so then, what would mystrength?
Be, you'd be the fighter, Iwould literally be fighting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah, I'd be behind you the whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
You would have a shield.
You would have a shield, you'dhave a shield and you'd be like
you're doing great sweetie it'snot a fighter.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Okay, my cheek hurts.
I've been thinking about that,though.
Like I don't have a skill set.
Like what do you want me?
Like you want me to?
Like help, help you find yourinner child.
Like we're in a zombieapocalypse.
Like there's not much that canhelp you with.
Like really can I?

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
ask you another one.
Yeah, no, I don't like that.
If you had to tattoo one factabout yourself on your forehead,
what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
A fact about myself on my forehead.
Oh God, oh God, okay, there isthis makeup artist that I follow
who has a tattoo on her face,and it's under her eyebrow, and
the word.
I had to Google what the wordmeant, and I cannot remember

(01:04:34):
what it was now, but I would getthat word tattooed on my
forehead.
It is like it, the meaningbehind the word.
I was like, oh, that's whatthat means.
It means, like being so afraidof your potential, because you
know that it's going to be likelike absurd, like you have like

(01:04:57):
so much potential, being afraidof your own power, being afraid
of your own, like inner person.
I'm going to have to find thisword, because I have been
following her for a while andI've always wondered what that
tattoo means.
I want to go back to the zombieapocalypse thing, though,
because, like, honestly, how youknow what I could do.

(01:05:17):
I could help people processtheir pain and trauma.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
We don't have time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
We're in a zombie apocalypse Well maybe sometimes,
when we're sitting in thefarmhouse like waiting for
another wave of attack, like youknow, and there's somebody in
the corner like quivering andcrying, I would be like how do
you feel?
Let's talk about it, let's getthat out, let's work on some
somatic movements to get allthis trauma out of our bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
What is your favorite conspiracy theory?

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Oh, oh, it's a big one, mk Ultra, and that ain't a
conspiracy theory.
Some people think it is true.
True, some people think it istrue.
And this shit that is attachedto it, because there's so much
more attached to it than I thinkpeople realize, like the
Unabomber is attached to it,much more attached to it than I

(01:06:10):
think people realize, like theUnabomber is attached to it.
And Dahmer and not Dahmer,who's the?
Who's the guy who had, like,the followers in prison?
Oh, charles Manson.
Yeah, there we go.
He was attached to it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
My turn.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've asked enough.
I know you've asked enough.
Oh God, if you had unlimitedmoney, but you could only buy
two things.
That start with your firstletter of your last name.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
What would they be?
Aquaphor.
Oh, you're okay.
Okay, aquaphor goes okay oh god, okay um an amanita mushrooms,
okay Um.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
That's actually a really good one, okay, okay,
okay.
I've got two good ones.
Number one are we in asimulation?
Oh God.
I think I feel like yes but Idon't think in the way that
people think that we're in asimulation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
So what do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I just I think that, like everything and nothing is
real, and I don't think thatthere are, like I don't think
we're in like a video game typesimulation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Everything and nothing matters.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow.
So profound, but no, I do thinkthat there are like higher
powers doing things andcontrolling things that we're
not aware of, and I think thatsometimes people have access to
that and sometimes they don't.
And it really makes you thinkthat, like what you just said,

(01:07:53):
like nothing really matters, buteverything matters, yeah, and
what's all this for anyway?
Like what are we doing this foranyway, if we're just going to
die and come right back, like,and learn another life by going
through another level?
Like it's crazy when you reallystart to think about it.
Yeah, okay, and then one lastdebate question is artificial

(01:08:15):
intelligence, something weshould embrace or be afraid of.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Um, I think it'll be a little bit afraid of really,
yeah, yeah, what's that?
One movie Um Meryl Streep, umwhere she's like the president
don't look up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yeah, yeah, are you sure wait?
No, I'm thinking of a moviewith like uh, I'm blanking on
all my names, got LeonardoDiCaprio in it no, okay, I don't
know what I'm thinking of, um,but yeah, I think I think a
little.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
I think I think there are good things, but I think
the way that it's going, I'mlike are we gonna get wiped out?

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
I have a husband in tech who is very afraid of where
it's going ai scares me alittle bit.
It's a little bit terrifyingbut it's, I think it's
terrifying yeah, I agree, I, Iam like you watch that movie
like makina x or machina.
Oh, I'm butchering so manyfucking things right now what
are you talking about?

(01:09:19):
it's like a movie about like arobot who, like, starts feeling
sentient.
And what's that movie that?
Or it was like a series on h?
Um, something about the wildWest.
They would go out there andlike it was like art, it was
like robots and stuff and theywould interact with them.
Yeah, it freaks me out.
Until they started feelingthings and then they started

(01:09:40):
fighting back.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah, yeah, no, it freaks me out.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
It was based on like a movie, but yeah I it's not
long and there have been rumorsthat have been like immediately
removed from the Internet, wherepeople have had proof that,
like their AI is becomingsentient and feeling things and
feeling emotions, and people whoare like big up in the tech

(01:10:05):
world are being silenced aboutit.
So it's a little bit scary.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Yeah, OK.
Well, can you ask me one morething?
That's like lighter and funnier.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Oh yeah, okay Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
I don't want to end on that, no.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Okay, what pastime is far and away the best to do
when you're high?

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Dude, this is from my Roman Empire.
We just said it.
Yeah, I love getting high andwatching some bravo and
diagnosing those narcissistic,sociopathic motherfuckers yeah,
this is like some deep dives.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
I have one more, because this is really funny.
Okay, you are the leader of anew society, rich.
Which ritual must every18-year-old complete in order to
become an adult?
I feel like this is so easy forme.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Okay, what would you say?

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Really yeah, you got to go on a journey.
Oh yeah, Go on a sabbatical, goto the jungle, do some
ayahuasca, go do some mushroomswhen you turn 18, like, go find
yourself.
Yeah, that's a very good one.
I think that I don't even thinkthat that's a funny thing, like
I think you absolutely should.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I was trying to think of something funny, oh, but I
don't.
I don't know what that would beokay, yeah, I don't either.
Yeah, no, that's a good one Iwould say with that um, you have
to study and learn about, and Idon't know how, I would like
whatever, but you'd have tolearn and study about other

(01:11:36):
things that you weren't taughtor conditioned to believe.
Yeah, I agree with that tobecome more of a critical
thinker.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I think far more people at the age of 18 are
pushed into college in a careerthat they end up hating and a
life that they didn't want forthemselves, but other people in
society and their familyreligion get married, have kids,
yeah, and we're like one of theonly cultures that doesn't have
rituals into adulthood.

(01:12:03):
Like it's.
It's embarrassing really.
We lack culture.
We we really do.
Yeah, like it's sad, but thinkof all the.
There are so many rituals withbirth and death and coming of
age and marriage, and it's likewe don't have any of that.
Like, when my kids turn 18, Idon't want them to go straight

(01:12:26):
into college and straight intocareers.
I want them to figure out whothey are without all the noise.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
I don't know if you know Gary Vee, but I know, yeah.
So he's like a entrepreneur,gives a lot of like business
advice.
He always says like you're notan adult if your parents are
paying for all the shit that youdo.
If you want to have your ownopinion, then figure out a way
to, like, provide your own life,like, but, um, but he.

(01:12:53):
He talks about like I would.
Instead of my kid going tocollege, I'd rather give them
money to travel the world forsix to nine months.
Yeah, see all differentcultures, different people.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Different philosophies, different ways of
living.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Different religions, different upbringings, all of it
different cultures for sure.
Yeah, that's a.
That's a really beautiful thing.
Um, yeah, I want that for mykids.
I wish I had that at 18.
Okay, all right.
Great episode Um, we'll add our.
We'll add my um Etsy link inthe bio if anybody wants to.
Transformation bracelet Um, andwe hope this helps.

(01:13:28):
Stay curious, be open.
We'll see you on the other side.

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77 | From Powerless to Empowered (Are You a Bit F*cked?)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}77 | From Powerless to Empowered (Are You a Bit F*cked?)