78 | That's Not a Flex - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
the way I blend into this pillow, oh my God, you kind
of do Legit.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think you should take the.
I think you should take theflannel off and show your tits.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Just show my tits, I don't, you know, I'm not there.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Just throw it out there.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You and everybody else, you and everybody else.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm always throw it out there, you and everybody
else.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm always going to be the friend who's like show
more skin.
This is the thing that used toget me in trouble as a kid,
though, so I'm like, I'm very Icover up a lot.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
What did you just show me?
What did you just show me, whatdid?
It say what did it say what didit say?

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hold on.
Breaking the pattern requiresyou to make a different choice.
Show your tits, show your tits.
Show your tits Free the nipple.
Free the nipple.
Listen, listen.
Make a different choice.
Listen, linda, I'm just sayingthat's what you grew up with.
They're showing a little bit.

(01:06):
They're showing enough.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Show it off.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I already made a different choice by not wearing
the oversized sweatshirt.
Thank, you.
I just put on an oversizedcardigan instead.
That's funny, I got too manypillows on me.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay, can I have a gummy?
Yeah, what do you want Give mesome Amanita?
Let's talk about this, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
We had somebody reach out and say they ordered some
of the colors gummies.
But I think we need to let youguys know the amanita is not
something that you want to do.
A large dose of this is not thesame as psilocybin.
The other ones they don't saypsilocybin because they can't,

(01:59):
but the ones in the black bottleare the psilocybin.
And the pouch that says thedouble dose, those are
psilocybin.
Yeah, the pouch that says thedouble dose, those are
psilocybin.
You like these?
I love Amanita.
I prefer these for this type ofstuff.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Okay, anyway what are we talking about today?
How did we start talking aboutit?
But we started having aconversation about what people

(02:32):
or society may think is a flex,but it's so not a fucking flex.
So you posted something on ourstories where you said that and
people could write in theiranswer and, um, we could talk
about it and elaborate on it.
And people had some really goodanswers for that.
So let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I was going to add something from last episode that
we were talking about thetattoo on my face, because I
remembered the word.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Oh OK, can you give a little bit more backstory if
people didn't hear that episode?

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, Last week, um, you asked me if there was a word
that I would get tattooed on myhead, what would it be and why?
And I was like blanking on theword.
Um, the word is me phobia andthe definition is the fear of
becoming so awesome that thehuman race can't handle it and

(03:27):
everybody dies.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh fuck, I know it's a little extreme.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, that is so extreme.
But I follow a makeup artistwho has the tattoo under her eye
.
It says me phobia and I'vealways wondered what that meant
and I Googled it and I was like,oh shit, I and I think maybe
not to the extreme that it'slike and everybody dies, but
it's like realizing your ownpotential and being terrified of
it.
A lot of people out there areafraid of their own potential.

(03:52):
Fuck yeah, it's terrifying,myself included.
Yeah, still same.
That was me like beingterrified to feel empowered,
yeah, um, anyway.
So that's my backtrack on lastepisode, this today, the things
that we were talking about.
I took screenshots of all theanswers because so many people

(04:13):
had such good answers and we hadour own list that we wanted to
start out with.
And the reason that this keptcoming up is because I think a
lot of people out there areproud to be and self-proclaimed
people pleasers and this is kindof how this started is as a

(04:36):
recovering people pleaser, as aformal people, former people
pleaser and still sometimes fallinto those things, those people
pleasing patterns.
The thing that really helps menot to people please is
realizing that it's manipulation.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, I was.
I was going to bring that upWe've talked about on I don't
know if it was the last episodewe did, but how people pleasing
is closer to narcissism thanwhat you think, because it is a
form of manipulation and you'reusing ego.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
And we are not calling people-pleasers
narcissists.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not what this is.
Let me be clear about the wholenarcissist thing too.
Everybody has narcissistictendencies and traits.
It is our ego.
It is the thing that protectsus from harm in the world.
It's just sometimes people aremuch deeper in those patterns

(05:35):
than others.
Yeah, and being aware of it isjust the first step.
So, yeah, no, we are notcalling people pleasers
narcissists.
But how many times have we comeacross like things that are
like people pleasers are closerto covert narcissists than they
even realize?
And I agree with that becauseyou're trying to, and I used to

(05:56):
be that I was very much thevictim in my in my life and the
people pleaser and woe was meand um, always talking about all
the shit that was going onwrong, without realizing I
played a role in it.
That kind of goes with lastepisode.
But anyway, back to the peoplepleaser thing.

(06:16):
The thing that really clickedfor me was reading up on it and
realizing that by peoplepleasing, you are manipulating
people into liking you,manipulating them into doing
things for you.
It's like this well, but I didthese things for you.
So, like, why wouldn't you dothese things for me?

(06:37):
So there's just a lot oftoxicity in people pleasing that
and you go around and you hearpeople talking about I'm just a
people pleaser.
Like, well, stop it.
Right.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Stop being one.
You're aware of it Right.
So now, what are you going todo about it?

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Ask yourself why you're doing it.
So this is I started to make awhole TikTok about this because
it's not the flex you think itis and also, before you do
something where, like, somebodycomes to you and is, like, can
you do this for me?
Before saying yes, sit with itand ask yourself am I doing this
for me or am I doing this forthem?
Am I going to regret this later?

(07:16):
Am I going to be upset that Isaid yes to this?
Because if the answer is yes tothat, then say no.
You were manipulating thisperson into thinking that you
are doing something of servicefor them, when really you're
just agitated and angry whenyou're doing it.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
That's something and it's going to build up
resentment.
That is something I stillreally, really struggle with.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
I do too yeah, I do too, yeah.
So it's really just likesitting with the intention
behind why you're doingsomething before I do too yeah.
So it's really just likesitting with the intention
behind why you're doingsomething before you do it.
And are you people pleasingbecause you want everybody to
like you?
I don't know, yeah.
So that's one of them and Ithink that that's the biggest
one that kind of started thiswhole like what else is?

Speaker 2 (07:59):
a flex.
I was going to say, yeah, thenwe're like, okay, but what else?
There's so many things, yeah,so let's get into it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
So people pleasing is the first one.
Having a ton of friends I thinkwe should add that, like, this
is not always black and white.
Yes, and it's just some of thepeople who sent these things in,
like maybe it's something thatthey used to think was a flex

(08:27):
and now they're realizing it'snot.
So what are your thoughts onthis one?
Having a ton of friends?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I know I always go back to this, but it's again.
It's my Roman empire.
But I watched an episode ofVanderpump Rules last night and
there's a girl on there, sheena,Shea, mm-hmm, and she has, I
think it was, 56 people'slocation that she is tracking of
her friends and her toxic traitis that she constantly wants to

(09:02):
be liked by everybody whichkind of goes into the
people-pleasing, but because ofthat she wants to be liked by
everybody which kind of goesinto the people pleasing, but
because of that she wants to bepopular.
Don't people say like shecollects friends, yes, and
everyone's her best friend andlike whatever, and I'm like okay
, first off, you're married,you're a mom, you're a working
mom.
How in the fuck do you havetime to track 56 other people's

(09:27):
location and what?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
they're doing.
Don't even think I could name56 people off the top of my head
that.
I would consider friends.
No, I have like five friends.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Fuck, no, fuck, no, fuck, no.
I used to be somebody, though.
I used to be somebody, though,who did pride herself on having
being friends with a lot ofpeople.
Yeah, same, because I was likedAgain, that people pleasing
pattern.
Because I was liked by people,people thought I was fun to talk

(09:57):
to.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
You were liked by everybody.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Who cool to hang out with Whatever?
So yeah, hang out with whatever.
So, um, yeah.
And then, as it's, what'sinteresting is the more work
I've done.
Those friendships have slowlyfallen off because they don't
accept me for who I am and I amnot going to change myself to

(10:20):
appease you.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I was literally just going to say I think people who
have a lot of friends aren'treally fully authentic.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
They are playing a role or putting on a mask to
make sure that everybody likesthem, and I don't.
I really I don't like that ideaanymore.
I used to, and I again, like,we're not like, we're not hating
on ourselves here, like we usedto be those people who wanted
everybody to like us.
Here's the reality of it.
That's impossible to haveeverybody like you because you

(10:57):
don't like everybody, so like,why would you expect every
single person to like you?
There are people that you arejust not going to vibe with, and
that's okay.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Like, the energy is just not there, and that's okay,
right, and also like justbecause you don't align with
someone doesn't mean that therehas to be beef, right, right, so
, and I know it can maybesometimes feel that way- it does
, I think, when you are likesomeone who's used to everybody
liking you.

(11:29):
Right, right, where it doesn'treally have to be.
And so that's something thatI've struggled with is I have
disconnected with some peoplewho you know I used to party
with them, we went to college,did, did whatever where it's
like, no, we're just indifferent phases and have
different interests andcommonalities and beliefs and
that's okay.
But I don't want to change whoI am, because I've, like

(11:50):
recently, worked really hard tofind you, to become this and to
find this, and I don't want itto go away.
And if you don't accept it oryou think it's weird, that is so
cool, that is I'm all good withthat, but there doesn't have to
be beef with that, but justwe've naturally grown apart.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, and it's like I'm not going to put myself in a
box to make you feelcomfortable anymore.
Yeah, and I am going to show upme fully, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
People don't like that.
I'm going to be honest.
I used to think people wereweird all the time and now I'm
like I'm the weird one.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
I went to the park with my son yesterday and I
spent an hour talking to thismarried couple about mushrooms.
I was just going to say, wereyou talking about mushrooms?
I was, because it's to thepoint where I'm like they may be
super religious and they maynot be into it or they're you
know, they still believe thedare program, shit like whatever

(12:51):
.
But I don't care yeah like I.
If I'm gonna have a conversationwith you, I don't care what you
think I like you can leave this, so that's super cool too, but
I I'm going to keep talkingabout it because it's my
interest and it's what I likeand it's what I feel very
passionately about.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, I used to have a hard time making like feeling
like I was making someone feeluncomfortable.
And now I'm like it's kind of Idon't want to say it's fun.
I'm not like getting pleasureout of making people
uncomfortable, but like if itmakes you uncomfortable, then
like I'm not like gettingpleasure out of making people
uncomfortable, but like if itmakes you uncomfortable, then
like I'm okay with that, right.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, I'm not like purposely trying to make you
feel uncomfortable, right, itgot brought up organically.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Right, I'm not like.
Yeah, like, and I was just likewell, go with it, I can picture
you at the park, like sittingdown next to some random couple
and be like hey, have you heardof mushrooms?
You want any?
I'm like no, that's not whatyou're doing.
I get what you're saying, likeit like comes up in conversation
and I'm not going to fuckinglike act like I don't know
anything about it.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I've got that projector energy People just
come and talk to me, so I'mgoing to talk.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm going to talk about what I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay.
So having a ton of friends, Iwant to well, I want to well, no
, we'll get to it becausesomebody else posted something
else being a man and the waythat I'm reading this this was
this was a man who sent this in.
I I saw another one that waslike being proud to be the alpha

(14:22):
.
So I'm reading it like thislike just be a man up, oh, don't
cry about it.
Like I think society does thisa lot with like little boys too,
and and being a man, what doesthat mean?
Being a man?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
right, it's not the flex that you think it is well
and somehow we've labeled thatanger is not an emotion.
And most men who havesuppressed feelings their entire
life grow up and then they havethis anger, but they don't
think that they are emotional.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
And I'm like, if I love bug had, anger is emotion,
babe money for every time I talkto a woman who is married to
dating in a long-termrelationship with a man who says
they're too emotional andthey're just not that emotional,

(15:15):
but they get angry all the timeand I'm like what do they think
that is?
The only emotion they show isanger.
It's an emotion they just don'tknow how to express.
All the other ones well, the wayyou do and your emotions make
them feel really uncomfortableand what do we say is behind

(15:36):
anger, grief?
Sadness there's.
There's all kinds of shitunderneath anger.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think anger is just an emotion that they don't
realize is an emotion, but anemotion that they feel
comfortable with because it'sManly Well, and it's kind of
what's They've been conditionedthat it's the only emotion that
it's okay to show.
Yeah, yeah, so I do have a lotof empathy for men in that way

(16:03):
and compassion for men, becauseI do want men like to be able to
have all sorts of emotions andit be OK and there not be shame
around it.
Yeah, and so I as a woman wantto do a better job at being able
to hold space for men, which Ikind of want to get into that

(16:23):
later, but we can do a wholeepisode on that and we
absolutely will.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Um, cause, you're exactly right, it's the opposite
of this.
Like to me, the opposite.
What is a flex is being able toexpress all the emotions and
not be ashamed of them, yeah,and to be able to hold space for
other people expressing all theemotions and not be ashamed of
them, yeah, and to be able tohold space for other people
expressing all the emotions,like to me, that's a flex.

(16:51):
Yes, like a man who can cry andbe okay with crying, like
that's fucking sexy.
Yeah, a man who can show, youknow, love in different ways,
like I don't know.
Like, once you get thatemotions wheel, like great tool
to have.
By the way, I have that as apillow.
I know I saw that at your housethe other day.

(17:11):
I've been sitting on mypurchase for a while, but that
emotions wheel is a big tool forpeople because it might show up
as anger, but that's not what'sunderneath it.
So I'm sure that there's moreto that.
Like being a man is like such aflex.
Like we could take it a littlebit deeper and say you know, we

(17:34):
talk about being in yourfeminine being, your masculine.
A lot of women who are in theirmasculine think it's a flex.
They're like I don't need a man, I can do this on my own.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I was going to say I want to add that, add to that.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
So take the gender out of it.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right Is, is well to say that it's not a flex where
women hate men.
Yeah, that's not a flex, yeah,which I used to kind of be like,
that I didn't kind of I waslike very very scorned.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Did anybody write that?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Um, I don't know, but that's a good one.
Yeah, like I think that thereare a lot of men, women, who
aren't very great at holdingspace for men.
Yeah, I think it goes both ways, it's not just one or the other
.
Like I think men have a lot ofyou, lot of toxicity that they
need to decondition from, but sodo women, and I've seen a lot

(18:31):
of just random little thingswhere I'm like man, the hate and
the anger that we have for menis something that we need to
heal, because those are somewounds where we may be
projecting onto the people thatdidn't cut us in the first place
.
Yeah, and I think it'simportant that we hold space for
each other, and I feel likethat's a really controversial

(18:53):
thing to say.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I understand what you're saying.
We can even take this back tothe Barbie movie and that
episode that we did on that andlike realizing that like oh,
even men who are angry and hatewomen sometimes what they need

(19:17):
is a woman who is able to holdspace for their grief and their
anger and their sadness and andwhatever it is that they have
gone through to make them hatewomen in the first place, who
can like, see and acknowledgethat this man has probably some
really deep seated mother woundsor father wounds and they okay,
let's take it back.
Like the whole emasculating menthing.

(19:39):
It's not cute, it's not cool.
So many women are like, but menaren't.
Shit, you know, men do this andI don't need a man.
Well, that's probably theenergy that you're putting out,
but if you want to be I mean,this could be a whole episode,
so I don't want to go too farinto it but if you want to be
treated like a queen, then youhave got to treat him like a

(20:01):
king.
There is no like I'm theprincess, that type of stuff,
like my daughter's the fuckingprincess, but like, you know
what I mean like, like you can'temasculate him because you
think you're better than him.
Yeah, and because you thinkthat, like he's not shit and
I'll just speak from personalexperience.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I used to do that, yeah, and cause I was very deep
in my masculine and so it wasonly about me, it was only about
my feelings and what I felt andwhatever.
And it's like, well, tony, myfiance, he has trauma too.
He has a past too.
He's got feelings, there'swounds too.
He has feelings too, he has hasbad days too, like it's not

(20:44):
just about, it's about you bothand it's about a partnership
together and holding space foreach other.
And I do see that a lot where alot of women it's like it's me,
me, me, me, me.
And it's like, yeah, but likeshit happened to him too.
Right, right and that's okay,you could.
It's important for you guys toboth be putting in the work and

(21:06):
both be holding space for eachother A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
A hundred percent Cause I can see my husband as a
little boy when he is in his youknow feels and it's.
But another thing to that likeI had a friend recently say this
to me and I was like, oh my God, that's.
She's in her like man hatingphase and rightfully so.
She's been very hurt by men inher life who were very not

(21:34):
supposed to be that way.
I don't want to give too manydetails.
Her own father said to her butyou're raising a son, you can't
be on this.
I hate men kick for the rest ofyour life because you are
raising a boy and what is thatteaching him?
And that's huge Like I don'twant my kids to feel that from

(21:57):
me and I don't want them to feelit in our marriage that I am
like emasculating my husband ornot just like emasculating him,
but like my feelings matter andfuck you.
And you know like which is alsohow I used to be.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, well, it's like what we said in the 12 step
episode, and you can write outyour resentments, but then you
need to write out the role youplay in those situations,
because we do have a role toplay.
You have sons to raise and Ihave a son to raise and I want
him to be a grow up, to be a manwho shows emotion and, you know

(22:36):
, can hold space for himself,can hold space for other people.
Yeah, so I have to parent himthat way.
Yeah, I can't parent him beinglike fuck these guys, like right
, it's not going to work, right.
So it's like I have to be thechange and to be the change.
I've got to parent him in a waythat I want how I want him to
show up in the world when hebecomes an adult.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, so that's a good one.
Being a man is not the flex.
You think it is, um, okay, nextone telling it like it is
brutal honesty.
It's usually more about egothan forward movement.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Ooh, I feel this one.
I feel this one so deeply.
Do you want to talk about it?
You go first.
Uh, yeah, I think I think thatthere is a strong case that in
my past I've been a bully.
Okay, and I've said it before.

(23:35):
When I came out of my mushroomjourney, um, the first one, I
was like I have a lot of peopleto apologize to.
Oh, yeah, because I was veryangry and projected onto people
who it wasn't their fault, um,but also I was somebody who was
very like tell it how it is,Tell them what you really think.
Tell them your opinion, fuckyou, whatever.

(23:56):
Tell them your opinion, fuckyou Whatever.
And again, I don't think, in alot of situations I was wrong to
maybe feel the way that I felt,right, but it was how I said it
and not having courtesy orcompassion that they also have
their perspective and theirjourney and their reasons for

(24:17):
why they are the way that theyare.
And there are things that I cansay, but learning how to say it
, okay, and so for me, I'm likevery, I can't not say stuff.
I've learned that about myselfI can't not say something.
So if you are, if you are closein my life.

(24:37):
I have to tell you how I'mfeeling, but right now I'm very
cautious and conscious andalmost a little paranoid of
bringing it up, because in thepast I've said things so
directly and so bluntly and I'velost friendships over it.

(24:58):
Okay, Because, I'm sure I reallyhurt their feelings where now
I'm like I don't want that.
I really care about yourfeelings.
I want to say what I have tosay and you hold space for that,
and us not lose a friendship ora relationship over that, but
also hold space to yourperspective and what you have to

(25:19):
say too, because I probablyhave a part in this situation as
well.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, I'm glad you added the last part, cause.
I'm like I can't relate to this,because I've never been that
person who is like, brutallyhonest.
I keep a lot of things in.
Yeah, um, we were.
I was actually having thisconversation with my friend
Sarah the other day about likeme and my luteal phase and like
the things that bother me andwanting to bring them up, but

(25:48):
also like knowing that I'm in myluteal phase and it didn't
bother me two days ago and it'sbothering me now.
Do I bring it up or do I keepit in?
And it's not that I'm keepingit in or suppressing it, but I
have a very different approachto this, where I am going to
figure out.
I will only bring it up if Ican't work it out on my own.

(26:12):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, does that make sense?
Yeah, so, um, because sometimesI'll be like okay, is this
necessary?
What was the role that I playedin this?
Is it worth it to even bring itup and not just like with
anything?
You know, there was somebodywho texted me a couple of weeks
ago and I just didn't respondand my husband was like, what's

(26:35):
responding going to do?
Is it worth it?
And I was like, no, you'reright, like I don't even want to
put the energy into respondingto this, like it's not somebody
who's who I'm close with.
Yes, so I don't need to be thatperson who tells this person
what I feel about this situation, because I'm like you know what
, I don't need to sit in that,so you're right.

(26:56):
I'm like you know what, I don'tneed to sit in that, so you're
right.
I'm just not going to respond.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, and I want to put an emphasis on people that
matter to me.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Right, right, yeah, and that's why I said I'm glad
that you said that, because ifit's someone who matters to me
and also if it's something thatI cannot work out myself, like I
can't work myself out of it andI'm like holding onto it and
it's creating friction that,like this other person doesn't
even know is there, then I'mgoing to have to like work up

(27:24):
the fucking courage to likedeliver it in a way that is
going to be heard.
Yes, there have been peoplethat I have lost who I don't
know can hear what I have to say.
Same.
So it's like it's falling ondeaf ears.

(27:44):
What's the point?
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I've already said doesthat make sense twice.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm going to make you start dropping down and giving
me 10 pushups.
I know.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I know I've gotten better at it in person.
Okay, that's good, all right.
The next one.
We actually had a couple ofthese, so, um, I don't, I'm, I
don't want to lose my place, soI'm just going to say it, and
then, when we get to it, we'llsay we already did so not a flex
.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's not flex used to be that person right.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think hustle culture really fucking did a
number on us, but I think thatwas um like for me.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
It got to the point I used to own a gym.
It got to the point where I hadand I was just telling you this
earlier today I had a UTI forabout a year and a half, on
antibiotic for a year and a halfbecause I was so stressed.
Being a mom trying to be apartner, run a business.

(28:52):
Run a business during apandemic.
Run a business during apandemic when you had to shut
down for three months.
That was not easy.
Also, learning how that I'm aprojector and even owning that
business, I was not living to mydesign at all and I wasn't

(29:13):
getting the rest I needed and Iwasn't getting the rest I needed
.
Yeah, but it got to the pointwhere I felt like I was quitting
or I felt like I wasn't like.
I think a lot of women, too,are conditioned to be like be
like a man, hustle, grind, workthat nine to five earn your keep

(29:35):
type thing.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Have the kids.
Have the kids Get married.
Do it all Clean the house.
Have the kids Get married.
Do it all Clean the house.
Cook the food, rememberappointments?
Yeah, and it just Do the fieldtrips.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I couldn't work on that level and my body was every
day telling me bitch dosomething different.
Sit the fuck down and like rest.
Different sit the fuck down andlike rest.
And I wouldn't, because I feltlike to contribute to society.
I had to be that way.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I think, now that we know what we know about human
design.
First off, not everybody ismeant to or wired to work the
way that people do when they'relike nine to five or working 40
plus hours a week.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Those are the manifesting generators and the
generators of the world.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, and even sometimes they get burnt out
when they're not doing the thingthat they're supposed to be
doing or the things that theylove, and they have no passion
for it.
They're used to that hustle andgrind but like they're still in
a, in a job that like doesn'treally serve them.
But they can do that nine tofive.
My husband can do the fuckingnine to five and shut off at

(30:45):
five o'clock.
I can't, I cannot.
I also think that like there'ssomething to be said about that
work-life balance.
Um, and also I know I'vementioned this book before.
I'm going to mention it againin the Heroine's Journey, it
talks about how women try sohard to live in this patriarchal

(31:09):
society and have the job andhave the kids and have the
degrees we do it all at whatprice?
So I was having thisconversation with somebody the
other day who is in business andstruggling and is having a hard

(31:29):
time because she's likeeverybody else is doing just
fine.
I'm like I'm going to stop youright there.
I owned a business for 12 yearsand I was not fine.
So the people you don't know,these people who look like they
have successful businesses andthey have these perfect families
and they're doing it all, youdo not know whether they are

(31:51):
suffering on the inside or not.
They very well could be andthey're just doing a really good
job of pretending they're doingokay which is what I did for a
very long time, conditioned toyou just do it.
Yeah, we don't know anydifferent, right?
So, yeah, that's what this booktalks about is how women chase

(32:12):
that and then they get there andthen they're like this is it.
I thought this is like theAmerican dream, like in my life
is still not, like, I'm stillnot happy.
Like what else is there?
I've hit every goal and there'snothing.
So, all right, um, being busywith work, do you have anything
else to add to that?
I?

Speaker 2 (32:34):
do have one to add, just whenever.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Why don't you do it now?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
we don't forget it okay, um, I don't know if this
is on there, but when people saythat's just how I was raised or
that's just the way that I am,I think that is on here.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Okay, great, but we'll know now when we get there
.
Okay, great, love that.
I know so many people like thatyou knew, knew who I was when
you met me.
I haven't changed and I don'twant you to change me and you
shouldn't want to change me.
I have a lot to say about that,go Okay.
First off, the things thatsometimes people are like that's

(33:14):
who I am, that's how I was whenyou met me.
That's not who you are, it'sreally not, that's not who you
are to your core, like those arelike well, I drank when you met
me.
That's not who you are.
Oh yeah, see, I'm thinkingsomething different, maybe, than
you are.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
No no.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah or I'm.
I'm brutally honest.
That's just who you are.
Those are things that you do.
Those are coping skills.
I wouldn't even call themskills Projections.
Those are tools that you'vepicked up along the way, but
that is not the essence of whoyou are as a person.

(33:50):
You can remove those things andstill be exactly who you are.
So I don't like that.
When people say this is justwho I am and this is who I'll
always be.
There's always room for growthand always room for change.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
So totally, I think the well, that's just how I was
raised, yeah, so I'll just usean example.
Someone who is very religiousthat I know, and you know again,

(34:36):
I'm not knocking yourChristianity but grew up in
church now is an adult, has kids, is in church with her family
and it's like I can't listen towhat you have to say because
it's like I didn't get taughtthat type of a thing.
And for me I'm like you know,you can still have your stance
and you can still have youropinion, but also there can

(34:56):
still be a curiosity to someoneelse's perspective, other type
of knowledge and information.
Like to me, it's not a flex tobe like, oh, that's just how I
was raised, so I'm not going tohear anything else.
That's different.
You need, like goes againstthat, maybe a little bit of a
different perspective, like I.

(35:19):
Just for me, let's say, raisingmy child, I want him to learn
about different things, even ifthere may be against what I
believe, because I want him toform his own opinion and become
a critical thinker.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You know how I feel about religion and I want my
kids to take classes on religion.
Yeah, Like I want differentreligions, not just like right,
Like I want you to go and learnabout Buddhism and Taoism and
all the different like types ofreligion that there are.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
But why is that wrong ?
It's not wrong, but I feel likethere is this like this is how
I was raised, so I can't learnabout anything else, because
then that's like wrong and it'slike well, if you truly stand
with that conviction, you shouldlike you can still be able to

(36:14):
hear and learn about differentthings while still having your
belief and opinion.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, and that's okay , I used to have and she's
opened now, I think, becausemaybe she's done a mushroom
journey.
Yeah, that would change it.
She is one of my friends who islike super Christian, but I
fucking love her.
I have one of those too.
Audra hey hey, and I remembertalking to her one time about my

(36:42):
experience with the medium andshe said, oh, that just kind of
goes against my religion.
And she was like, but I'vealways been curious about it.
And then now she's likereaching out asking me about my
medium information, because I'mlike the fact that, like you,
were like, oh, I can't do that,it goes against my religion.

(37:03):
I'm like there's a lot ofthings that are like, that are
connected to the spiritual worldand religion, that, like they
tell you not to do, but I'm like, once you do it, you're like,
oh, this makes sense, thisconnects to this.
You know what I mean.
So, yeah, all right, you went adifferent direction with that,
but I kind of really like that,like the, the two different
perspectives on on that.
Um, someone said a collegedegree.

(37:24):
So agree, not a flex, and Ihonestly, like years ago, used
to be like my kids are going togo to college.
I didn't finish college.
I'm just going to say that,okay, didn't finish college and
I would be like my kids aregoing to college.
And now I'm like, please, don'tgo to college.

(37:44):
It's a fucking scam.
I will say that there are somethings and it depends on what
you want to do with your life,but there are some things you
can do without a college degreeactually, and it's kind of
starting to turn into thatanyway.
Like I don't want to be 45,paying off my student loans from
when I was 18 years old, with acareer that I didn't even love

(38:06):
and you know what I mean, andwith a degree that I don't even
want to use anymore.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I'm 36 and still paying college loans with a
degree that I didn't even haveto get.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Right college loans with a degree that I didn't even
have to get Right.
That's what I'm saying.
It's like like I have foundsuccess without a degree and I
think anybody can.
But again I will say, like Ihave one kid who thinks he wants
to be a lawyer.
Like fuck, you gotta go to lawschool.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Right, right, you want to be a doctor.
Yeah, gotta go to doctor school.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Oh my God, I just said I didn't finish college,
medical school, but you know so.
But I don't think it's a flex,like I've never really been
ashamed to say that I didn't goto college.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, it never bothered me.
And here's the thing, too, likewe've learned a lot about just
even traditional school and whythey created that, and it was to
prep people to work in afactory.
So then it's like you have this18 year old and there is
pressure to go to college.
Okay, so then?

Speaker 1 (39:07):
And pressure to know what you want to do with the
rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
That and I know so many people who one year in two
years, in three years, in fouryears in, they're like I don't
think that this is what I wantto do, but I've already wasted
two, three, whatever years of mylife learning this.
I don't want to start over.
So then they go with that andthen they go into that job role

(39:37):
and they go into that corporateworld and they hate their
fucking job.
But they're like I went tocollege for this.
I don't want to start over.
I don't want to find acompletely new career.
I put all that money into it andnow I'd have to find a new
career and I'd have to take apay cut or do this and do that.
So in a lot of ways not inevery way again I'm not like.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
This is black and white.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, in a lot of ways college is a scam and I
will die on that hill.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I will stand by that.
I hate that like we have to payso much because if you live in
the UK like, you don't fuckingpay the way that we do here.
It's horrible To add to thatwhat you just said.
I know some people whoseparents paid for their school.
As long as they chose this ohmy God Degree, as long as they

(40:32):
were working towards this, theypaid for their school.
So a lot of adults will getstuck in that, like my parents
would be so mad at me if Ididn't use this degree or my
they would be so mad at me if Iswitched in the middle of my
college career, like, or theywould cut me off.
So it's not even just likeyou're paying for it.

(40:54):
Like there's like that addedpressure of like, oh my God, if
I switch now or if I drop out ofcollege now, they're going to
be so fucking pissed becausethey just spent all this money
on me to go to college and theyworked so hard to put me through
college.
Yeah, yeah, it's pressure.
So much pressure.
What I really really want andcall me fucking weird and hippie

(41:19):
, dippy and crazy is I want mykids to take a sabbatical.
Like I will send you to thefucking jungle Doesn't have to
be the jungle, but like do Iwant them to do mushrooms when
they turn 18?
Abso-fucking-lutely, hell yeah.
Like go do mushrooms, findyourself and then come back and
tell me what you want to do withthe rest of your life.
And it's okay if you don't evenknow then.
And also it's okay if itchanges.
It's okay if it changes.
That's like the whole part ofthis journey is like changing

(41:43):
your mind and being okay withthat.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Like I love that permission and think about this
when you go to college and whenyou finish college, your brain
is most likely still not evendeveloped, obviously depending
on what age you graduate, butnot till you're 25.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
I thought it was 26.
I think it might be 25 or 26.
Your frontal lobe is fullydeveloped, right To add to this.
Nobody added this, but I'madding it right now.
Iq versus emotionalintelligence.
Oh, and I'm saying this because, even though I don't have the
master's degree that my husbandhas like I am so much more I

(42:26):
don't even want to say now I wasso much more emotionally
intelligent than he was he'scome a long fucking way.
Like he didn't think that wasimportant.
He thought IQ was important.
But I teach our kids emotionalintelligence like they're so
fucking smart and I'm like theydon't get it from me because I
fuck, I know like that I wasn'tthat smart like but you are.

(42:49):
I am so fucking intelligent, butyou are smart yes I've always
said I don't have common sense,but I have street sense, like I
am smart in ways that someonewho, like learn from a book,
might not be smart, you know?
Yeah, so I stand by that.
Like, emotional intelligencewill always be more.
Um, that will be sexier to methan IQ any day.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Well, and they also say cause?
You know the saying, where it'slike C students are always a
student's bosses.
I've never heard that.
Yeah, and it's usually true.
You want to know why?
Because C students over here.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
I was an A student, I just didn't.
I hated it.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Um, but C students were like they didn't get the
praise and go like, all right,you do this perfectly, you do
this perfect, this, this, this,this, this, this, this.
They're used to not fitting inthe box and having to maybe have
more creative ways to getpraise or get attention, and so

(43:54):
oftentimes like they have otherskill sets and that could be
emotional intelligence, it couldbe, you know, better
interaction with people, and sooftentimes they're better with
people.
Yeah, so they are betterleaders because of that.
They didn't just go by the bookwith every fucking thing and

(44:16):
get the a and do this and yada,yada, yada, and so a lot of
times, like in managementleadership roles, it's not the a
student, it's the c student whohad more emotional intelligence
.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right.
I think people with um highemotional intelligence are very
they're good at reading peopleand they're better at working
with people A hundred percent.
So, even though that's not intheir high IQ, not a flex Good
for you If you have one, oh.
I was like what did I do Ifyou've got an extremely high IQ?

(44:51):
But also, what is youremotional intelligence?

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Well, and to that I fight, I say, like the, the
people in the family who havethe emotional intelligence level
, and to that I fight, I say,like the, the people in the
family who have the emotionalintelligence are the ones who
maybe can start the trajectoryof healing for the family and
focusing on those types ofimportant things like mental
health and you know boundariesand and all of the things that
we should learn to function asan independent, empathetic,

(45:17):
caring adult that we want ourchildren to be.
I used to say that all shouldlearn to function as an
independent, empathetic caringadult that we want our children
to be.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
I used to say that all the time to jason years ago.
I'm like I might.
I may not know the things thatyou know, but I know people.
Yeah, like I really do.
Yeah, for sure, which is why Ifucking had my job for as long
as I did I worked really, reallywell with people.
Um, being nice, it's not theflex you think, it is, fuck.

(45:40):
No, I feel like that could fall.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Fall into the people, pleaser category Totally, and
also there's a differencebetween being nice and being
kind.
I feel like being kind, like benice, is an authentic.
Being kind is more likeauthentic and compact, like I
want to be kind but also like Iwant people to know, like don't
fucking try it, do not fuckingtry it.

(46:03):
I am kind but don't try it, Ilike that, whereas nice, I feel
like it's like it really doesfall into that people pleaser
category.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, like I'm nice because I want you to like me.
Yeah, like I'm nice because Iwant you to like me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, crying about it later ornot at all is not a flex.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
What is it?
What do you mean?
Crying about it later or not atall?
Holding?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
it in.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Okay, suppression.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I cry all the time you do forsure.
Everything I will say I have notcried.
Season three yet Hasn'thappened.
Yeah, okay, you know what?
We still got time Challenge ison um, crying about it later?
Not at all, I think it is.
And I said this I think it isokay to cry in the moment,

(46:53):
totally, like a hundred percent.
I cry at my daughter'sgymnastics meets.
One of the girls fell off thebeam.
It wasn't even my daughter, butone of the little six-year-olds
fell off the beam and no, no,no, she did her routine wrong.
She like did a completelydifferent routine.
Had it was the saddest thinghad like such a breakdown off

(47:16):
the beam.
All of her little teammates,who were like little six and
seven year olds, are likehugging her and like rubbing her
back.
I was crying because I was like, oh my god, the way that these
little girls are like helpingher, like it was so adorable.
I also cried because she likeforgot her routine and I was
like, oh God, like, oh, yeah,but I cry over that stuff and I

(47:41):
have no shame.
Yeah, no shame.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I used to feel a lot of shame because I'm somebody
who if I'm angry, I cry.
If I'm sad, I cry.
If I'm happy, I cry.
If I'm frustrated, I cry.
If I'm having a hardconversation, I cry Like any
type of emotion I felt.
I cried and I would feel so,like just so bad that I'm

(48:07):
embarrassed.
And now I'm like but what'sinteresting is now doing that
and giving myself permission tofeel those things and it's okay
I do it less.
I was just going to say thatBecause I don't think I bottle
it up as much, because there'snot so much shame and
embarrassment with it.

(48:28):
So then when I am frustratedand I go to Tony about my
feelings, I'm a lot more calm.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
It's like when you're holding in a cough and it just
keeps getting worse.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like you're like trying to holdthis coffin and it's like
you're dying inside, it's justcough.
Just cough, yeah, um, to add tothat, I have said this to Jason
before um, because he'll starttalking to me about something
and I'm like just, I'm like just, I'm listening, we're

(48:59):
communicating, but I'm justcrying, and he was like it makes
me feel bad.
When you're crying, I'm likeit's just emotions.
Like we can have thisconversation.
I don't want you to not havethis conversation just because
I'm crying.
Like I'm just, I can't help it.
This is a difficultconversation.
I've done that with you before.
I was literally going to saythat Like, and you were like you

(49:19):
feel so bad talking to me andI'm like I'm talking to a puppy,
but don't feel bad.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
It's my thing, yeah, Because it is.
It's like you are allowed tohave an emotion.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's just coming out of me.
I can't fucking help it LikeI'm.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
hold it in, it's, it just comes out, but for me it's
the hives that get me.
I'm like, oh my god, she'sbreaking out in hives.
Yeah, I do that a lot and Idon't want that to happen but,
you do that.
You're doing it right now.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I am, yeah, just a little christ yeah, it used to
be much, much worse.
Like I couldn't hide.
That's the thing.
Like I couldn't hide when I wasuncomfortable because my neck
and face would get so fuckingred yeah and people would be
like something's wrong with youand I'm like no, I'm fine.
No, I fucking wasn't, I wasn'tfine, all right, so crying about

(50:10):
it later or not at all, that'snot a flex.
Just fucking let it out, dude,like I also understand and
there's two sides to this havinga safe place to do it, sure,
yeah, um, I, I create my ownsafe place, so I don't fucking
care.
I'll cry in a grocery store.
Um, okay, never getting angry.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
It's not a flex so not a fucking flex.
And you, you're all like.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
I never get mad.
I would love to see what you'reholding on to and not letting
out.
Actually, I wouldn't.
That would be terrifying.
That's what happened with me.
That's what happened with meyou know all about, like all my
Cali shit last year yeah, I do.
It was terrifying when it cameout, Not just to my husband, but

(51:02):
terrifying to me because I didnot.
I had never experienced thatlevel of rage in my entire life
and it was scary.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Well, and if if you're never angry, I go back to
the lack of authenticity withinyourself.
Then yeah, because again,emotions are okay.
You can feel angry, you canfeel sad, you should feel
frustrated at times it's notjust happiness all the time Like

(51:28):
it is okay to feel angry.
Oftentimes, what we do withthat anger is what makes it not
okay Right, but angry so fuckinghealthy.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
It's really fucking healthy.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
So fucking healthy.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
It's a needed emotion to feel so the rage room we're
going to go.
But I was talking about thiswith a friend I will fuck that
room up.
I was so one of my girlfriendsthey went for as a work trip and
she was like this one guy, likeit was so crazy watching him
and she was like but the crazything is like he's the least,

(52:05):
he's the last person you wouldexpect to have that much anger
and rage.
And I was like those areusually the ones with the most.
Yeah, like, show me someonewho's always happy.
I will show you someone who isinternalizing their rage and
suppressing all the things thatmake them angry.
100%.

(52:25):
That person is not that happy.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah, you know what I see a lot in people who
suppress their anger and what itcomes out in Passive
aggressiveness.
Yeah, I see that a lot whereit's like in passive
aggressiveness.
Yeah, I see that a lot whereit's like they're nice but then
they throw that like littlebackhanded compliment Cause
they're really like a fuckingbitter Betty about something and

(52:48):
you're like oh, did they justshade me?
I'm not really sure, but Ithink that was a read and um,
just say it, just feel whateveryou need to feel yeah, I don't
know how I, I don't know what Idid with my anger.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
I don't know where the fuck I could see you being
passive, a littlepassive-aggressive.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I don't think I could do that really.
No, even to jason, maybe tojason okay, because I was like
must be nice going out on awednesday, you know what I mean
like, yeah, no, I could never dothat to anybody else.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Interesting, okay, I don't think I could be wrong.
If you guys know me on thepersonal level, tell me.
I don't think I was passive,aggressive, like I would just be
super fucking nice.
Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.
Let's ask Sarah, I don't thinkI was passive, aggressive at all
.
Being liked by everybody,that's it.
We've said it.

(53:37):
Yeah, could totally go intothat.
Never fighting in arelationship.
I have a lot to say about thisthat's not a flex.
I have a lot to say about thisyes, you do.
Let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Okay.
I know a lot of couples.
They've been together for 10,15, 20, 30, whatever years, Okay
, and people think that, oh,like they're so cute together,
they're so good together becausethey've been together for so

(54:07):
long and they never fight.
To me, I think that is the.
That's a red flag.
It's such a red flag to me, andhere's why how can you not
fight?
I think fighting with yourpartner is healthy.

(54:29):
You have to learn how to fight.
You have to learn how to fight.
I also this may be unpopularhow to fight.
I also this may be unpopularthink it's okay for your
children to see mom and dad havea disagreement, but repair,
then resolve it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
I think that is healthy, because I've heard kids
say well, I don't know why myparents got divorced, they never
fought.
And to me that's the oppositeof love, isn't hate, Because
with hate there's still to me,there's still passion and
there's still strong feelingsthere.
To me, the opposite of love isapathy, indifference.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Can I admit something ?
Sure, so before my healingjourney and before my husband
was sober, I was the cool wife,because I always let him go out
and he was always getting to dowhat he wanted.
And I will tell you right nowhe thought we were just fine.

(55:34):
He thought we were fine becauseI was just checked out
emotionally.
I didn't have the bandwidth tohave the arguments over and over
and over that we had beenhaving for years, like about him
leaving me with the kids andgoing out, like there were.
There was at least a good twoyears where I was just like it's

(55:57):
fine, like I was the fuckingcool wife, wow.
So yeah, and because I neversaid anything, I didn't bring it
up anymore.
It got to the point where Ijust gave up.
Yeah, so we didn't fight at all.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah yeah.
That's so fucking like I couldnever.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I can live to testify that that is not a sign of a
healthy relationship.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
never fighting there are also people who maybe it's
not that extreme, where it'slike the partner is partying and
going out and hanging out withfriends, but they're not having
hard conversations, yeah, anytype of hard conversations.
Or you know, to me I feel like,as Tony and I have grown, we've

(56:45):
learned about each other, butwe've learned about ourselves,
yeah, and shown up in anauthentic way.
And to me, to show up in anauthentic way, you also have a
lot of deep conversations.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
And so people who are very like shallow surface, like
they both like football, theyboth do you know whatever, and
I'm like, yeah, but like whatelse, some of our biggest fights
in the last couple of years um,I remember one of them in
particular lasted for likeseveral days, several days.

(57:20):
And it ended with him saying tome I know that this has been a
really hard few days, but Ithink we just got a lot out of
it and I was like you're right,like it kind of forced us to
deal with some shit that wehadn't dealt with yet and it
took.
It took days.

(57:41):
Yeah, it cause you can't dothat in an hour or two hours and
you know we've got kids at home, so we've got things that we
have to do, and so it would belike a few hours every night.
After the kids would go to bed,we would have more, we would
continue the conversation, andthey were really fucking hard,
but after every single one ofthem we would come out of it and

(58:02):
have, like this, betterunderstanding of why it was that
in the first place and what wewere going to do, moving forward
.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I love that.
So I love that you shared thatbecause that is it is very
important and Tony and I, youknow, in the beginning of our
relationship and granted, it isreally hard to blend a family,
being a blended family and be astep-mom I think being a
step-mom is so much harder thanbeing a stepdad and I will
fucking die on that Hill um, formany reasons.

(58:35):
But we really had to workthrough some tough stuff to
actually blend our family in ahealthy way and we had to go
through a lot of like hardphases and seasons of life, but
now it's like we have trulylearned how to fight because we
actually fought and put in thework.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
So you have to learn how to fight, but you should
fight.
Rick Rubin says this and Ifucking love it and I'm stealing
it and I say it all the time.
Now there is no right or wrong.
There is.
This is what I see.
What do you see?
I love that.
And so now, when we, when wehave these, I don't even like

(59:18):
calling them fights, likethey're.
They're arguments, they'redisagreements, they're they're
hiccups, different perspectives,different perspectives.
That's why we're able to getthrough them, because we come
out of it and there is no like Iwas right, you were wrong.
That's never gonna, that'snever going to fix a fight.
That is never going to fix afight.
We come out of it and we'relike this is how I felt when you

(59:42):
did this and this is how youfelt when I did this, and so
let's understand that and let'snot do that.
Moving forward, there is reallylike a this was my perspective,
this was your perspective.
Neither one of us are wrong,but how do we keep from doing
this in the future?
How do we keep from gettinghere to this point where we're

(01:00:03):
like in this rage storm together?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Okay.
So I'm going to add to that,okay, something that is not a
flex.
Yeah, someone who pridesthemselves in the fact that they
don't often apologize becausethey think they're never wrong.
I know it's not totally not aflex, I know, but I know a lot
of people.
I know that's not totally not aflex, I know, but I know a lot
of people, myself included, wholike have a hard time

(01:00:28):
apologizing yes, because you'relike, you fucked up, you're
wrong, like so you're gonnaapologize to me, yeah.
where it's like no, you have arole to play in this too.
Yeah, yeah, and.
And.
So I often think that, thoughpeople are, they may not admit
it, but they're not goodapologizers, because in every

(01:00:53):
fight or every disagreement,they're like I'm right, they're
wrong, instead of like okay,this is how I feel, or this is.
They made me feel this way, butI have a role to play in this
too.
I could have made them feelthis way, you know, right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
So right Like yeah, no.
I think a lot of people getstuck in that.
Well, you apologize first, butthat's that's the hardest thing
is like being the first one todo it.
That's really fucking hard.
I'll admit that that's hardbecause I'm like I will
apologize, but you go first.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
It's real fucked up.
Yeah, but I'm.
But also there is this likewhen, like, whoever is the
person who goes first, it islike an immediate like it.
I don't know how to explain it,but there's like a letdown of
like yeah, Okay, and I'm reallysorry I did this, yeah, but like
I don't ever want to be the onethat goes first, Cause I was

(01:01:53):
the one that went first for along time, so but anyway, it's.
it's a hard thing, it's a hardthing to work on.
Um, all right.
Next one being normal is not aflex.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
It's so not Okay.
You're just like everybody else.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
The definition of normal is like literally square
oh my God, square.
We have said this before.
And the definition of weird islike fucking magical.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
I'll take magical all day Every fucking day, baby.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yes, like I don't want to fit in a box.
Also, who sets that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Who's?

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
normal.
Well, and what's normal?
What's normal Likeinauthenticity is normal.
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to put on a mask,the same mask, and let me say
this Once you start livingwithout that inauthentic mask on
and you are walking aroundmaskless, there's a point to

(01:02:51):
this.
Whenever you do have to put itback on because there are times
I do, it is exhausting and Icome home and I am depleted.
I'm like how the fuck did I dothat my entire life, because now
I can't even do it for like 30minutes without like wanting to

(01:03:13):
come up for air.
Yeah, so it's like that.
My tolerance for beinginauthentic is so much lower
than it ever used to be.
I used to be really good atjust being this person for
everybody, and now I'm likethat's not who.
That was never who I was.
Yeah, yeah, so being normal,yeah, love that, okay, um, being

(01:03:34):
a good girl or a good boy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I don't know, I've never been a good girl.
So, leah, maybe you can speakon this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Cause I was always the kid where, um, I wasn't the
good girl cause I had a fuckingmouth on me so I wasn't
necessary.
I think my mom would maybedisagree, but I was, like I was
so fucking good compared toother kids, like I really was,
like I had good grades, like Iwent to church, like I did all
the things, but like but youstill did.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
You still did the good girl.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
I did the good girl things.
Didn't feel whole.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
So what does that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
say yeah, doesn't say very much.
So this whole good girl I thinkthat kind of goes into also,
like why I had so much rage comeup last year Like a good girl
doesn't get angry, good girlsdon't get mad, you're just a
good girl all the time oh my god, you're so sweet, like oh my
god, you're so nice all the time.
Like no, I, I hate that.

(01:04:30):
I used to be that and and Idon't.
I it didn't, I didn't like it.
Yeah as as somebody what is agood girl?

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
right, and as somebody who was never really a
good girl, um, I have seen theconditioning that you see with
even like a good little boy,yeah With with little girls and
little boys like, oh, you neveract up.
So well behaved.
You're so well behaved.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I was just going to say.
I see a lot of stuff about likethe kid who was like the
wellaved, like kid who like hungout with the adults because
they didn't like do the thingsthat the other kids do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
You're so mature.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
You're so mature for your age.
Where are you now?
Are you okay?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Send us a DM.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Like like you didn't get to be a child because you
were having to be this like goodgirl, good boy, like that's not
yeah that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Yeah, that's not a flex.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Right, yep, my kids are good kids, but like they
don't play that Like they're,they don't play that good girl,
good boy role Like they'refucking kids who fart and burp
in my play hard my son is afucking menace, but I love him,
I know, like let him be a kid, Iknow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
And he is Let them be a kid, he is a menace.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Perfectionism is not a flex yeah, Because it's
unattainable it is.
I have a friend who is aperfectionist who's who is very
aware that she is that waybecause her parents pushed it on
her because they wereperfectionists.
Is she doing anything about?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
it no, even though she's aware no.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
She also has kids.
And I said what is thatteaching your kids?
And she was like well, I don'texpect it from them, I just
expect it from me.
And I'm like again what is thatteaching your kids Like you're?
You're still teaching them this, like they see you striving for
perfection.
And she was very much like oh,I don't expect it from anybody

(01:06:34):
else, just me.
Like I'm harder on me than I amon anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Well, but it's like.
It's like the women who theybody shame themselves but they
want their child to lovethemselves, and it's like, well,
he she has just watched youcompletely pick apart your body,
so they're also going to havethat belief right About
themselves Like you are theirrole model.
You are their.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
I don't think people think that though I don't think
they.
It really is like monkey, see,monkey, do like.
Just because you're not tellingyour kids this, you, whatever
you are embodying, is what yourkids are learning from you,
because the actions and thewords don't match up, so they're
just watching you.

(01:07:18):
Yep, so even though you thinkyou're not doing this to your
kids because you're not pushingthem the way your parents pushed
you, you are still doing thisto your kids.
So it all kind of goes back tolike you got to heal that in
yourself first.
You have to be it right, like.

(01:07:45):
So what do you need if youdon't want them, if you don't
want this?
And she was very aware.
She was like, I would never dothat to my kids, but like, but
you are because you're teachingthem like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
That's what you're teaching them there's a mom, I
know she's an alcoholic and shedoesn't want her kids to drink,
and it's like, well, you know sothat the math is not method,
and it's like, you know, I I'mlike you're very worried that
they're gonna do this, but itstarts with you, right, they see
it, they're around it, you'remodeling it literally for them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
It really I didn't even think about like the whole
body shaming thing.
But you're exactly right, likeif you don't want your kids to
be like upset with their body,then you kind of have to work on
that yourself.
Like you can't be like, well,it's okay that I am not happy
with my body, but you can behappy with yours.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Well, and as somebody who has been a trainer, a
personal trainer, I've seen somany women be like, oh my God,
my six-year-old.
She's been having these, likeyou know, picking apart her body
and asking about calories andand worried about food, and I
don't know where she got thatfrom and I go you.
She got it from you?
Yeah, she didn't.

(01:08:54):
Yes, there's, there's TV,there's all of these things, but
she got it because it's in thehome.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah.
So I don't think people realizehow much of an impact you have
on your kids.
Yeah, like their brains aredeveloping during that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
That should be in itself so much motivation to
heal.
It really should, but anywayssometimes it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
I digress Not asking for help is not a flex.
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I kind of used to be like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
It's like the Brene Brown, like vulnerability her
talk on vulnerability on Netflix, which, if you haven't watched
it, highly recommend.
Did you ever watch it?
No, oh my God, it's so fuckinggood, but it's it's.
It's literally like just beinga human sometimes is knowing
that that you can't do it allalone and that we need community

(01:09:44):
and that it's okay to ask forhelp and, as hard as that seems,
it's not a flex to act like youcan do it all.
I think that's the thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Well and congratulations, you're burnt
out Right.
Congratulations, you arerunning on that empty tank.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yes, Like what is that doing for you in the long
run?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
But I do also understand that sometimes people
genuinely like don't have help.
That's true too, you know, sothat can be hard.
That's true too, you know, so,um, that can be hard.
That's true too, but yeah,there, that's not a black and
white, but it's not a black, andwhite answer.
But but have it.

(01:10:32):
That's what goes with havingthat awareness of like.
If there are people who arelike hey, you know, I see you're
really busy.
If you need me to help babysityour kid or you need help with
this like, just let me know,take them up on it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Well, okay, I can even, like, take this um a step
down and say like even you knowmy husband, he is the meat freak
in the house and does thedishes when he, when they're
piling up in the sink and itdoesn't bother me, cause I grew
up with a hoarder Um, but itbothers him, so he's always
doing it and he's like nobodyever helps.
But it bothers him, so he'salways doing it and he's like

(01:11:04):
nobody ever helps.
And I'm like, well, you can askme to do the dishes and I'll do
the dishes.
Like I just don't think aboutit the way you think about it,
but also like it's our kids havechores and he said that too.
Like, well, I shouldn't have toask them to do it, though, and
I'm like, because they're kids,right, so like you're making it
harder on yourself becauseyou're not you're doing them,

(01:11:29):
because you say it's easier tojust do them yourself than
asking for help.
But like, really, you're notdoing anybody any favors anybody
, right?
Not yourself, not our kids, notme, right?
Like I don't know when you'redrowning.
So you know, I need you tocommunicate that, yeah, if I can
take something off your plate,like even if I don't think about
it and you need help, like tellme and I'll take it off your
plate.
Yeah, if I can.
Yeah, so asking for help, okay?

(01:11:51):
Um, we already did this alittle bit.
I did hustle culture.
Um, we didn't do hustle culture, we did um workaholic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
So same thing thing um being hard on yourself yeah
um, it's not a flex well, andit's like most of us grew up
being hard on ourselves andshaming ourselves for things or
feelings or whatever, and it'slike where did that get us?

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
there's a book called try softer.
I love that I recommend to alot of people, because I think a
lot of people gaslightthemselves out of their feelings
and emotions because they'relike I shouldn't feel this way
and I should be stronger thanthis and I need to snap out of
this.
Or you could be a little bitsofter and give yourself a
little bit more grace and sayit's okay that I'm feeling this

(01:12:42):
way.
Yeah, and that goes such a longway.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
I often hear I should be so grateful.
Yeah, you know, I'm notstarving in.
Africa.
Yeah Well, I mean, yourexperience is your experience,
right, and you're here to have ahuman experience and to have a
human experience you're going tofeel all sorts of things and
those are still valid.

(01:13:07):
There are multiple things canbe valid at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I've never done it.
I hate it so much because it'slike if you miss one thing, if
you mess one thing up, you haveto start over.
And when we did our thing withMichaela last year and she was

(01:13:32):
just like, if you want to have acheat meal, have a cheat meal.
It's like right, you're human,like give yourself a little bit
of grace.
That goes such a long way.
Then being like, oh, I'vemessed up, I got to start over.
You know, when I was, when shegave me permission to work out
two days a week, I was like,okay, thank you.

(01:13:53):
It's like we're waiting onpeople to give us, we're waiting
on permission to be soft onourselves, and I don't think we
should wait on that permission.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
I think we can be softer on ourselves without
someone telling us yeah, when,um, when we went, or when I was
in high school, um, and I wasdeep in my bulimia.
I was very hard on other people, but that was because I was so
hard on myself so I projected itonto everyone else.

(01:14:22):
So that was, you know, beingbulimic.
When everyone, after abasketball game, they would be
eating pizza, I wouldn't eatanything at all.
That would be eating lunch inthe locker room instead of in
the lunchroom.
That would be working out whenI wake up, go to practice after
school and then working out whenI get home oh yeah, to practice

(01:14:44):
after school and then workingout when I get home.
Oh yeah, like when I say I washard on myself, like I really
mean physically, emotionally,like I pushed myself very and I
went full, transparency, full,went into the fitness industry
so I could continue being hardon my, on my body and where'd
that get you.
Um, I'm not in the fitnessindustry anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
And I mean.
What did we learn last year too?
Like the, the way that you wenthard did more damage to your
body than good.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Oh yeah, I have way more hormonal and gut issues
than you do because I was sohard on my body for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
I know a lot of people in the fitness world who
have a lot of hormonal and gutissues, but they're not not
doing what they're doing becausethey are like well, it's just
normal to have all these hormoneissues.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
And now ios.
What is that?
Biosis, like all of thesethings like dysbiosis, high
cortisol yeah, you went a littletoo hard there, a little too
hard.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
I'm like here, I am like, oh, so it's a good thing
that I didn't like I've neverbeen into working out.
I think there's's balance,right, and I mean I'm kidding,
but I was just like oh damn, andI would have thought that you
would have been the healthiest.
No, that's crazy.
So yeah, not a flex.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Yeah, which it's, it's so it's so conditioned in
me that being soft has beenreally hard to channel working
on it.
Yeah, but it's.
It does not come natural to meto channel working on it, yeah,
but it's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
It does not come natural to me.
So, um, some of these, I'mgoing to just throw past skin
past them, because they're kindof the same things being
repeated, grinding past workhours, workaholic being the yes
person, people pleaser.
Um, this is another one doingit all super wife, super mom,
super employee, super friend,super woman.
I, super woman.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
I feel like that's not a flag.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
I feel like that falls into a lot of different
categories, because that fallsinto people pleasing that falls
into workaholic hustle culture.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
That falls into being the yes person.
We are not meant to do it alllike that.
That follows into falls intoalso trying to fit in and be
normal instead of like showingup as your authentic self and
being honest with yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
When you need a break , you need a break.
Yeah, sometimes one of thoseballs has to fall that you're
trying to juggle to keep theother ones up.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Well, and you know, when my business closed, I was
like, oh my God, I'm a failure,I quit I, you know, I.
How can I live with myself?
What am I going to do with mylife?
And it felt so awful in themoment and I felt like such a
complete loser and like I quitsomething or failed something,

(01:17:33):
when it was the best redirectionthat has ever happened in my
life.
It was so necessary.
So, although it felt low andthere was a lot of shame in the
moment, looking back three yearsnow I'm like holy shit, bitch,
how'd you do that for that long?

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Right, it's like going through that uncomfortable
change is always the hardestpart.
Like it's so hard because youdon't see the other side of it
yet.
Tony, it's always hard.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Tony always says you will be ready to change when the
nervousness of what the changeis outweighs the like comfort of
being the same.
Yeah, so it's like, yes, thereis a discomfort and an anxiety
with change and an anxiety withchange, but also I'd rather have

(01:18:26):
that than feel the discomfortof staying the same and doing
the same thing.
That is obviously not workingfor me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Yeah, it's a lot, so much To hold on to.
Yeah, I've always heard thisthing about like everybody has
these balls that they'rejuggling and let's say, one is
your work, one is your family,one is your friends, one is your
mental health, one is your needto rest all these things, and
you've got to decide which one,which ones are rubber and which

(01:18:57):
ones are glass.
And so sometimes when you'rejuggling you've got to let some
of those fall to hold thoseglass balls up, and sometimes
those glass balls change Likesometimes you have a friend who
really needs you and so that'sgotta be a glass ball in the
moment, and if your home lifeand your, your other stuff is

(01:19:17):
good in that moment, it's okayto let that fall, to go grab
this one.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
Yeah, I love that, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Um, oh, we already did this one.
The hating men Yep, yeah, andvice versa.
It works both ways, yep, like.
You're not going to attract aKing if you're not treating them
like a King, and you're notgoing to be treated like a queen
If you're not treating themlike a king, and you're not
going to be treated like a queenif you're not treating them
like.
It works both ways, really does.

(01:19:45):
Yeah, somebody said how much Icould drink in a night.
It's not a flex oh that's agood one.
I didn't even think aboutbecause we don't really drink.
You're like, yeah, I never getdrunk.
I have a really high tolerance.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Yeah, that's not a flex.
Yeah, you've built that up Well.
And to like, so many people arelike I'm worried about doing
mushrooms, yeah, and or I hadthis bad experience because I
used it incorrectly Emphasis onthe incorrectly and I'm like um,
I've seen you get fucked up up,puking guts out Laying in your

(01:20:28):
puke.
Yeah, piss yourself.
Like, do the craziest shitwhile you've been drunk and be
hung over for three days to then, the very next weekend, do it
again.
And it did nothing for you.
It served nothing for you.
So like, let's come on.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
There's something there that you're not saying
that you're afraid of let's comeon, there's something there
that you're not saying thatyou're afraid of.
Um, this next one my travels.
They said what's the flex?
That it's not a flex.
That used to think was mytravels.
I grew up with more money thanmy fiance and friends.
I can see how that's not theflex you thought it was, because
not everybody grows up withmoney and not, I think there's a

(01:21:05):
lot of.
What am I trying to say?

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Well, I guess.
So you and I grew up poor, yeah, and so I have always had
friends that had more money thanme.
And if someone came to me andthey're like, oh, I do this and
this and this and this and this,I'm like, well, you didn't do
it, your mom and dad did it ah,okay, yeah, so it's like I, I,

(01:21:32):
so I get what she's saying,because I'm like in my head, I'm
like well, this isn't.
You didn't buy this house.
Your mom and dad bought it.
You didn't buy this nice shitthat you have, your mom and dad
bought it.
Yeah, call me when you earn it.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I hear what she.
It's just not the flex that sheused to think it was.
Yeah, um, and traveling also isnot necessarily like a flex,
because some of the best peopleI know have lived in the same
towns their entire lives andthey are big on community and
big on helping others and youknow, sometimes there's a little

(01:22:06):
bit of there's some good stuffin small towns and both of us,
coming from small towns, like Ican say that there's a little
bit of good there.
I think it's good to like haveboth.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
Yes, I was going to say.
I think traveling is alsoamazing, though, cause you're
learning different cultures,you're learning how different
people live.
Um, if you're truly going andlike seeing the world, not just
staying in the five-star resorts.
Every day, everywhere you'regoing, you're seeing you know
different ways of life anddifferent perspectives, and I
think that can be reallybeneficial.
Um, I've even thought of, likewhen Kai turns 18, instead of

(01:22:42):
him going to college, likeletting him travel for a year
travel the world, yeah, so thenhe can.
I think that would be such agreat learning experience.
But also, it's just witheverything, it's it's balance
and it's not black and white.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
It's not black and white.
We keep saying that it reallyisn't.
Someone else also said this.
It's funny because twodifferent women said being
superwoman.
She said being able to handleeverything, aka being superwoman
.
I swear to God the people that Iknow who on the outside are
doing it all.

(01:23:17):
You know that in my industry,when I would sit down on the
table with someone for 30minutes to an hour doing a
service on them, we got deep.
Not one of them was happy.
They were the ones who did itall and had it all, but they
would be crying on my table.

(01:23:37):
Sarah used to always like makefun of me because, like you know
, I'd be in the room withsomeone for 30 minutes and we'd
both come out crying and she'slike what the fuck do you guys
talk about in there, like whatis going on?
And I'm like well, it startedout an eyebrow wax, but like I,
you know, I got to know peopleon a deep, deep, deep level.
So, if anything, I knowfirsthand because of my own life

(01:24:00):
and experience that sometimesthe people who look like they
have it all together are theones struggling the most.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I've talked to them.
I've been that person, I'vewitnessed those people.
So just because you're doing itall and like, who are you doing
it all for?

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Yeah, why?
Yeah, and what's interestingand I've noticed it with you,
not anytime recently, but in thepast a lot of people that are
like that.
So, let's say, they're reallystressed that they're doing it
all.
So then you give them alifeline and you're like, well,
have you asked your husband tohelp you clean the house?
And they're like, well, no, hewouldn't do it.

(01:24:42):
Right, right or no, I'm notgonna let him, you know,
decorate this because they won'tdo it right.
It's like, well, yeah, you haveto learn to let go of your need
of control, yeah you can'tcontrol everything.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Yeah, I was actually.
We were just talking about thisthe other day with.
I was talking about with afriend because she was talking
about how she is like so OCD,about like her Christmas trees
that's what I was meaning by youis your fucking Christmas tree?
yeah, and I was like, and I usedto be that way and it didn't
happen overnight.
No, the change didn't happenovernight.

(01:25:17):
But let me tell you, every yearit's gotten a little less
extreme, a little more relaxed,like jason would make fun of me,
because like we had the prettytree and we had the ugly tree.
And don't you dare put thosehandmade ornaments on my pretty
tree.
This is the pretty pink one.
I wouldn't even let my kidsdecorate it because they would

(01:25:38):
put the things in the wrongplace.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
You and you did that with me, I did.
Yeah, but again.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
that was two years ago I know I'm just saying like,
little by little I have gottenso much better.
So, like last year, you know, Ilet Elle put put the
decorations on and I didn't gobehind her and move them.
Yeah, that's when you and I didour tree.
I didn't go behind her and moveanything.
I was like, well, there's alittle cluster right there,

(01:26:06):
that's about my daughter'sheight, and they're all clumped
together.
But I'm going to leave it andit's going to be fine.
And this year we didn't even doan ugly tree and I let them put
their ugly ornaments on mypretty tree.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
I think that's amazing, because here's what I
think about Christmas too.
I think Christmas should alsobe kind of ugly.
Yeah, it should be messy andlike there should be.
You should like when we.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
I want my kids to enjoy, right, like I'm, like
it's a tradition, help me putthis tree up.
But then, if I'm like bitchingat them the entire time because
they're not doing it right,they're not going to have good
memories of that and they're notgoing to enjoy it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Right and we've gotten so into the aesthetic of
things.
Yeah, fuck that.
But I'm like the point ofChristmas is so the kids can put
ornaments on the Christmas treeand you know, kind of it'd be
fun.
Yeah, I've come a long way,yeah, you have, but yeah, I, I
put something on the tree, I putan ornament on the tree and

(01:27:08):
you're like, um, yeah, I'm goingto move it just over here.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Like I'm that person who, like takes a step back and
looks at it and squints my eyesto like see if there's any holes
in it, and then I like stepback in and I move things around
.
But I'm not that bad anymore.
And so this is what I wastelling this person.
I was like it doesn't happenovernight.
It happens little by little,and even Jason was like bragging

(01:27:34):
about me letting the kids putthings on the tree this year.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Well, and when you really think about it, it's not
that deep, it really isn't.
It's when you're on yourdeathbed Are you going to be
like?
Be like.
You know what I really regretletting my kids decorate a tree
and it looked funky as fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
yeah no, so the aesthetics of everything is just
.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
That's a, that's a that's going to be a good memory
you know right right.
If anything, it's going to be awonderful memory.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
I'm okay with that.
Yeah, okay, um pullingall-nighters.
That'll fall into theworkaholic category, um being
the breadwinner.
It's not the flex you think itis and I can say this now.
I could I could have said itbefore but I think, um, for a
long time my husband and I wereequals in the money financial

(01:28:18):
department and now department.
And now that I'm not working,we're not.
But I do so much more now thanI ever had the capacity to do
before, like I do way morerunning around with the kids,
way more cleaning and cooking,and I don't think I ever aspired

(01:28:39):
to be that.
I never wanted to be like thestay at home housewife, the stay
at home mom.
I always wanted to work andmake my own that.
I never wanted to be like thestay-at-home housewife, the
stay-at-home mom.
I always wanted to work andmake my own money.
I swear to God, this is harder.
I'm not saying the other onewasn't hard also.
They were both hard in verydifferent ways.

(01:28:59):
When I was the workaholic, Imissed a lot of my kids' field
trips and I missed a lot oftheir afterschool activities and
I missed out on a lot of things.
And I'm getting to do thosethings now and I wouldn't trade
that for the world.
I like doing this so muchbetter, but I feel just as busy
as I did before.
So it's like the trade-off islike being the whole breadwinner

(01:29:24):
, like, yes, my husband is nowthe breadwinner of the family,
but like what I do is alsopriceless, and I think you can
say the same thing, like youagree.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Right, well, it's, it's when, um, when Kai first
came into our lives, I had twoweeks off.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Not a lot of time, no .

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
And it's not a lot of time to form a bond with a
child and it's changed a lot andnow I get to take him to the
park.
We do have a lot of bondingtime, Like he is very close to
both his mom and his dad and Ilove it because I'm like I'm
getting to raise my child.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
And this is a no way saying anything to the moms who
are also working.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Yes, I feel like to like.
It's a difference.
Yes, I feel like sometimesyou're damned if you do, damned
if you don't't whatever you doas a woman this is just with
that whole breadwinner thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
Right, I am right.
Okay, now that I am notbringing in money and feeling
equal to my husband, because Ibelieve that what I am doing has
value.
Yeah, yeah, so much value.
Yeah, so, both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Well, and I understand wanting to go to work
and have a break, to then comeback and be a better parent,
like it is very dependent on thefamily, the situation, the mom,
all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Allie Wong is a comedian, I know her.
Like when she went back to workafter having her baby and people
are like you came back to workso soon, she was like if I
didn't, my baby would be in thedumpster.
Like I have to miss her to loveher.
Yeah, like I get that.
So I get that too, andsometimes it's just a different
kind of hard because I amoverwhelmed and I don't get

(01:31:21):
breaks the way that I used tolike.
Work used to be my break frommy kids and now I I don't get
that the way that I used to.
So it's, it's a different kindof hard.
Um, you already said this, neverchanging yourself or your
opinions.
Somebody that was one of them.
Um, thinking you knoweverything and not willing to
learn from anyone else.
Thinking you know everythingand not willing to learn from

(01:31:43):
anyone else.
That's kind of the same thing.
But I want to say Aristotle, Ithink, is who said this
no-transcript, and I thinkthere's a lot of people out
there and my husband used to beone of those people who thought
that he couldn't learn anythingfrom me because I didn't have a
college degree.
And I'm like you could actuallylearn so fucking much from me

(01:32:04):
if you were open to learningfrom me, but you think because
you're smarter.
I have nothing to show you orto offer you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
And you have nothing to learn from me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
One way right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
This is the back to that IQ and emotional
intelligence thing, like, and Ithink he would say now, like
I've learned a lot from you,which he has.
Oh, he would say that, yeah,being happy all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
We already said that being in mesh with immediate
family, that's a hard one.
Let me bring something up that,um, somebody said to me a
couple years ago when itbothered me and I didn't say
anything, but it stuck with mebecause several years ago I
didn't have a relationship withmy family and it's still very
strained.
But they were talking aboutmeeting someone who didn't have

(01:32:57):
a related meaning, a someone whodidn't have a related meaning,
a guy who didn't have arelationship with his family and
she said it was a red flag.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
I've heard that so so many times.
People have said that to melike they, they're not close
with their mom and dad, so I'mjudging.
I'm like how is that a red flag?
You have no idea what happenedto them and they can't help how
they grew up.
In this situation I was likedon't think it's a red flag at
all.
I hate that so much, that causeI was that person who got

(01:33:24):
judged for that.
Yeah, because people would sayI don't know, she, she doesn't
have a dad.
Yeah, so you're putting that onme Right, like literally, go
fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:33:36):
Right there, I just think that, like being enmeshed
with your family is not the flexthat you think it is, and I'll
even take it back, even thoughmy relationship with my family
was very strained.
I saw my husband's family andwas just like, wow, what a great
family they're together.
They're together.
They have, like you know,monthly family dinners.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
Like you, know monthly family dinners, and
little did I fucking know thatit was the most toxic family
system I have ever witnessed inmy entire life.
Oh, I would argue that thereare so many family systems where
they're toxic as fuck.
Yeah, the dynamics are so, sotoxic, and then they stay
together because that's what youdo, yeah, and looking, no one
breaks the pattern.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
no one breaks the cycle, and when you do, you get
outcast so you know, it's justinteresting because I was the
black sheep and the outcast ofmy family and I was seeking that
like family structure and thenI thought I found it and
realized it was even worse thanwhat I had growing up.

(01:34:43):
So that's not a flex Like it'sgreat if you're close with your
family.
It's just not the flex, thatlike it's not a red flag if
you're not.
I don't think no, there's astory there, 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
I want to know it.
There's two more.
Do we?
We have time.
We'll go through them quickly.
Somebody said wearing expensiveclothes or overpriced sneakers,
and I'm so sorry, but I feel alittle bit attacked.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
I under sneaker.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
I'm a sneaker head.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
I oh my God but.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
I agree to an extent.
It is not a flex to have thedesigner shit.
I understand that and I willalso say of my shit comes from

(01:35:43):
Amazon and I used to be aLululemon only girl, yeah.
So I understand what thisperson is saying.
Um, I am always finding goodshit on Amazon.
These sweatpants, like, are thebest sweatpants I've ever owned
and they came from Amazon.
There are not a name brand.
If anything, I prefer likeAmazon shit over name brand
stuff.
Now, that's not how I used tobe.
No but I don't know if I cangive up my sneakers.

(01:36:07):
That's okay.
Listen, I'm healing, I'm nothealed.
Hey, yeah, like I love mysneakers, I can't help it.
And here's the thing.
We're also not into designerpurses.
I'm not into, like, designerlabel clothes.
I've got designer purses andthere's nothing wrong with that,

(01:36:28):
but like I just I agree withwhat this person's saying.
It's not a flex.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
Right, you can have high quality things that aren't
designer.
Right, you really can.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I don't know you got anythingto add to that, just felt a
little bit of time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
No, I think.
I think it's very valid.
I think you can still havethose things and maybe still be
humble about them.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
Yeah, so Well.
And like the purse thing.
Like I have friends who likedesigner, it's just I never gave
.
I never gave a shit aboutdesigner purses.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
Like I will carry stuff from target or Amazon, I
don't care about that, it's notthe thing I care about, right,
and what I'll say is I don'thave many.
I did it because I earned it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
And I've had somebody say that to me before too, so
it was like.
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
I'm like I don't want it because everybody else has
it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
I want it because I can afford it now, right, and
that makes that makes sense too.
Yeah, it's not because, likeeverybody else has it and I want
it Right, even if it is thatwho cares, right, okay, but I
get that, all right.
And the last one I we couldhonestly do an episode on this,
but it's like being a goodfriend and loyal, but without
being honest, it's not a flex.

(01:37:44):
Ah, this is the last onewithout being honest, without
being on.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
I have, so I have to.
I'm going to add to that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
People who, like, aren't honest with you but then
they, um, they like will gossipabout, be about you behind your
back and think that they're agood friend and they don't tell
you what they're really thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
I.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
I can't fucking stand that.
I would much rather you comeand say something to me, even if
it's like oh shit, I didn'tknow you were feeling that way.
Then just gossip behind my backand I'd have no idea you're
talking about me.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
Let me I will try to give an example without giving
details.
Try to give an example withoutgiving details, okay, um, a
friend who, um, I would alsoconsider a, um, a very proud
people pleaser, becauseeverybody loves this person.
Um said something to me lastyear about I thought we were
good friends and and I was likeyou've never been my friend,

(01:38:53):
like you've talked shit about mebehind my back, like you'll
tell my husband like thingsabout me.
So you've never been my friend,but you're a person who
collects friends and is thepeople pleaser and you're
everybody's friend.
A friend to everyone is not afriend.
And even in that, in this personand some of their friendships,

(01:39:18):
in that in this person and someof their friendships, this is
where I struggle because, um,are you loyal to the people that
you've known since you were 12years old?
Your idea of being loyal tothem?
Absolutely you are.
But like you are letting thesepeople come to you and bitch

(01:39:38):
about their lives and bitchabout their wives and their, the
things that are going on intheir lives, and you're like
listening to them and you'reletting them vent to you and
then they leave and you're likegod, that person's a mess, like
he is doing a, b, c and d andyou didn't say that one time to
that person.
You just let this person comeover and vent and bitch and get

(01:40:02):
drunk and you just listened andlistened, and listened and not
once did you ever look at thisperson and say, okay, but what
are you doing?
Like, why did she react thatway?
What are you doing tocontribute to this?
You're not being honest withthis person and literally as
soon as they leave, leave.
You're talking about how muchof a mess he is.
That's not loyalty.
Yeah, that's what I was gonnasay.

(01:40:22):
That is not loyalty.
You're not telling, you're notholding this and again, you
don't have to hold everybodyaccountable but like you
consider this person a friendbecause you've known him since
you were like 10 years old orhowever long, like I'm saying
her too.
Like, if you are not beinghonest with this person, you're

(01:40:42):
not being as loyal as they thinkyou are.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
Yeah, there's a girl that I went to high school with
and, um, all of these women frommy hometown were talking about
her drinking and how it was aproblem.
But it was in a way of like, ohmy God, yeah, she was such a
mess last night, so-and-so hadto drive her home.

(01:41:05):
Oh my God, she threw up and didthis, this A, b, c, and I'm
thinking and this was after Idid my mushroom journey so I'm
like, so all of you guys arepartying with her or around her

(01:41:25):
while she's drinking and on thatlevel and and watching her
self-destruct, but not saying,maybe the next day, like, hey,
are you okay?
Cause I'm going to be honest,I'm a little worried about you.
I'm I'm like I want you to beall right, you don't say any of
that, but then you're coming tome and telling me all of the
stories about how she was afucking shit show.

(01:41:47):
Right, you are so not a friend,because if I were, if that were
me, I would hope someone and Iknow the people that I have who
are in my front row now they'dbe like girl, I love you, but
but like that was reallyunhealthy, like I'm a little

(01:42:10):
worried about you and or I'm alittle worried about what you're
doing, or how you're living oryou know, that's what I want and
I've posted a lot of thisbecause I am that friend who is
honest, yeah, and I feel likethose types of friends often get
a lot of flack and again, youhave to say it in the right way

(01:42:31):
and delivery matters.
I can't stress that enough.
But I also think that theunderrated friends are the ones
who will tell you what you needto hear to your face, with love.
With love because they love youand they want you to do well,
yeah, so when you're not, theywant to talk to you about it,

(01:42:54):
because they want you to do bigthings and they want you to, you
know, live a life of peace andthey want you to be successful
and they want you to grow andevolve.
And, like when you'reself-sabotaging, they're going
to tell you that you are.
They're not just going to thinkit and then say it behind your
back or not say anything at all.
I'm just saying I feel very.

(01:43:17):
I feel very passionate aboutthis one.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
Yes, you can step down off the soapbox now, but
like that's a, that's a big one,it is yeah, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
But I do think, though, that those types of
friends, they're very underrated, and they do get a lot of flack
because maybe the other personisn't willing to hear it, or
whatever and if anything, allyou're doing is enabling yeah,
and that's not a good.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
All you're doing is enabling yeah, and that's not a
good friend, like you wereenabling this person's behavior
by letting them continue doingit without saying hey, sharon, I
don't know.
I think you're kind of creatingthis problem and there is
something you can do about it,and you know you're not really

(01:44:01):
doing it and I'm worried aboutyou.
Yeah, that's a friend, that isa friend, that's a friend.
So, being the person, being thefriend who's loyal but like
without being honest, likethat's not loyal, that's not
loyal.
You're not loyal.
That's the thing.
You think you're loyal becauseyou've been their friend.
It's not loyalty, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:19):
To me, it's not about time, it's about the quality of
that friendship.
That was it.
That was a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
We were like let's keep it under 45.
Here we are An hour and 45.
My bad.
We had a lot of people messageus.
Listen, we get a lot of shit tosay.
We had a lot of shit to say.
So, yeah, next time you thinkyou're flexing, maybe do a
little reflection and say isthis really a flex or is this

(01:44:48):
something that, like, I alwayslooked or I thought was like a
really good quality to have, oris this just a really bad coping
skill?
Whoops, got your coping skill.
All right, that's all we got.
I'm about to pee my pants.
Okay, gotta let you go To allof our listeners.
If you've ever experiencedanything like this or you are

(01:45:08):
growing and healing and learningthat, like, maybe the thing
that you thought was a reallycool thing isn't like, let us
know in the comment section.
Whatever, and for everybodyelse, stay curious, be open,
we'll see you on the other side.
Bye.

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78 | That's Not a Flex

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