79 | Bicycle Day and the History of L$D - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, welcome back, christine.
I'm so excited to talk to youtoday about LSD.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
LSD, the psychedelic I've never done.
Well, you have.
I've microdosed LSD.
For those that don't know, ifyou have ADHD, microdosing LSD
can be A really good tool.
Yeah, and really beneficialform of microdosing.

(00:35):
Like, microdosing mushroomsmade me really tired, so I
usually, if I microdose, I liketo take them at night.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
But LSD helps with focus and makes me feel like,
okay, I could do this, this.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, there's a reason for that?
Okay, well, and we'll get intolike the microdosing part of it.
But, like from what I havelearned about microdosing with
different substances, when youare microdosing psilocybin,
you're working on inner stuffand microdosing with LSD is
outer stuff.
So if you want to be morecreative, more focused, like

(01:12):
external things, you're going todo LSD.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
If you want to work on some inner, like trauma and
like angst or anxiety, likeyou're going to want psilocybin
angst, or anxiety like you'regoing to want, um, psilocybin,
and that's very interestingbecause I feel like kind of a
lot of things that show up forme are rest, slowing down,
softness.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
And we've had.
I've had people reach out to mebefore who microdose mushrooms
and they're like it just makesme tired.
And I'm like are you gettingenough sleep me tired.
And I'm like are you gettingenough sleep?
Like, are you taking care ofyourself?
Yeah.
Are you resting?
Yeah, and most of the time theanswer is like, well, no.
And I'm like, okay, well, youknow, if you don't like that,

(01:59):
take it at night and you'll havea good night's rest.
But you know, some people arelike, oh, they're telling me to
sit down and take a nap Okay, oh, they're telling me to sit down
and take a nap.
Okay, I love a nap, I lovedoing nothing.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh, it's my favorite thing and I don't do enough of
it, so I do not feel guilty fordoing nothing, oh.
God, no, I think I used to.
Yeah.
No, I know I used to yeah, yeah, same, but I, I I wish I could
rest more.
Yeah, that's my goal.
There's not enough rest time.
You know how people say likeyou can sleep when you're dead.

(02:29):
Yeah, and I'm like, why would Iwant to do that?
Some of my best memories arejust me hanging out in bed, like
I have the best time in bed.
I don't know what you're like.
What do you mean?
I don't.
That quote does not resonatewith me at all.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Well, and there was a big part of me that always felt
guilty, because my husband is amanifesting generator who is go
, go, go, go go and he doesreally struggle with rest, like
he's the type of person whofeels guilty when he's resting,
and so just being around thattype of energy, I felt guilty
when I was resting.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I could not imagine being married to a manifesting
generator.
Generator.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
It's hard.
But now he knows like I'm like,look dude, like I'm not fucking
lazy, I just write we're wired,I'm not like you.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right, and I'm OK with that.
I need you to be okay with ittoo.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I'm not fucking lazy, I'm just burnt the fuck out, oh
God.
Anyway.
So the reason that I wanted todo this episode today and the
reason that we're dropping thiscouple of days early, it's
because a holiday is coming up.
What's the holiday?
Leah, the holiday is a bicycleday, which is April 19th, the

(03:55):
day before 420.
Oh yeah, and I have been in athree day rabbit hole for you,
oh, excited.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
You have not told me this, I know.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
I've been.
I've watched two documentaries,I have Googled, I have printed
stuff out, I've taken notes Oneof the documentaries I've
already watched, but I wanted tolike brush up on it.
Um, but one of the things thatI found so fucking fascinating

(04:30):
is that a lot of people thinkthat four 20 was a thing of the
grateful dead, like they startedfour 20.
Uh huh, there are so manyconnections between the grateful
dead, lsd, the LSD movement and420, the cannabis culture.
Okay, and I was like down thisfucking rabbit hole, like, oh my

(04:52):
God, they're here and they'rehere and they're here.
And I'm going to be honest, Idon't know much about the
Grateful Dead, other than, like,they were pioneers in the LSD
movement.
Yeah, I don't know much aboutthem either.
I couldn't tell you a song theysing.
No, that makes me sound veryboring, like I'm not into

(05:13):
psychedelics, because I feellike it's this staple, like if
you're into psychedelics, youknow everything about the
Grateful Dead.
And I'm like well, I don't, butwe're also not about into
fitting into boxes, right, and Ididn't grow up in the 70s and
in that culture and, honestly,like even when I was a teenager,
I wasn't allowed to listen tosecular music.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
So and also can you just like psychedelics, but like
you, grew up listening to theSpice Girls.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Absolutely, I was an alt girly Like I just I just
discovered what that is and likean alternative, yeah, like when
I'm in my car I'm listening tolike lithium and like nineties,
like grunge.
That's funny.
I was not into, like theBackstreet Boys and the NSYNC,
like I was an alt girl, okayWell.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I love Korean pop, so I'm a K-pop girly.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Little BTS.
You know that doesn't shock me,but I don't know how many
listeners that will shock.
I love a dance number Not me.
I just want you know what Ithink about it.
I think about this, though I amvery I have such an attachment
to music and it's it's always inmy journeys.

(06:21):
There's such an attachment tomusic like I love to feel.
Yeah, the song, yeah, in 90sgrunge it was just all this like
teenage angst, yeah, and likefeelings and it wasn't about I
love you, girl, and like allthat shit, like it wasn't that.
It was like you know, creep,I'm a loser, like this guy

(06:45):
feeling like he doesn't fit inand like wrote a whole song
about it, like by radiohead,like that fucking song fucks me
up every time and I have a storyabout that, actually while I
was on lsd.
Okay, are you gonna tell thatlater?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I will put a pin.
So you have two pins right now.
What is my first one?
Um, lsd and microdose and then,but for me, I like to dance
like you like to feel I like todance and I like to move and so
I like things that I can knowI'm the girl that's crying on
the dance floor to rufus becauseI feel it in my soul you're

(07:19):
like the girl at the concertwhere like rufus is playing and
I look over and you're likecrying Hundred percent I did.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I was like you looked over and I was just like in my
feels because, yeah, I did.
Yeah, it's a very differentthing for me.
Music is a very different is avery heavy thing for me.
Yeah, ok, so let's get started.
The start of LSD.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
I love these rabbit holes that you go down.
By the way they're like, it'slike one of my favorite things
about you.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, and one of the things I was talking to my
husband about last night and toyou, I was like I was never good
in school with like writingresearch papers, but I am so
good at finding resources.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, but you probably weren't good at that
kind of stuff because it wasn'tyour interest.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, yeah, but you probably weren't good at that
kind of stuff because it wasn'tyour interest.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
No, again, right, right, going back to fitting in
the box and having to learn acertain way.
And there's one way.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
I still don't think I could write a research paper on
this or any type of paper.
I just absorb the informationand I tell it to you like you're
five.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, and that's how I learn.
I learned by, like, hearingother people explain it, yes,
storytelling and and like Iwould rather do that that's
actually a thing like.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
You learn more and faster and quicker by playing
and making it fun than like.
That's why like hamilton wassuch a really fucking awesome
show.
I learned more about thehistory of the US from Hamilton
than I ever did in historyschool.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
OK, good to know.
So go to Hamilton oh yes, ok,it's so good.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Ok, so Albert Hoffman was a Swiss chemist who worked
for a company called Sandoz inSwitzerland, and he discovered
lysergic acid diethylamide.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
LSD, you're wearing your glasses today.
I look smart, don't I?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
This is why I'm for the people.
Okay, I'm here to explain thiseasily.
So he discovered acid.
It's a compound derived fromergot, which is a fungus that
grows on rye.
He actually was doing it for,like a blood, like he was
creating a medicine for bloodclotting.

(09:38):
Oh, okay, and I want to startoff by saying, like some of
these things, I might fuck upand get wrong, and I am OK with
that.
Like I'm not the expert, I'mjust regurgitating what I've
learned and I tried to takenotes to the best of my ability.
If I fuck up, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
And also just message us and say, actually I'm not
going to take offense to that.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, like I'd be like.
Oh, thank you.
We're here to that, yeah, likeI'd be like, oh, thank you,
we're here to learn, yeah, yeah,we're here to grow.
Um.
So he actually discovered it in1938, but five years later is
when he actually ingested it.
Okay.
So he didn't know what it didand he took an amount um April
19th 1943.
So bicycle day comes into play,because what he did after that

(10:26):
is he went home on his bicycle.
As he was riding home startshaving all these hallucinations
tripping ball tripping, fucking.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
I can't imagine like being on LSD and going for a
bike ride.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, and at the time , like he didn't under he didn't
know what it was, and there aredoses, right, that LSD is one
of those things that you dose inmicrograms because it is so
potent.
Well, so, like you get, you dipyour pinky in that shit and

(11:01):
lick it like you're trippingballs for days.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
So it makes me think of that story where that woman
thought she was doing a line ofcoke that's in my notes, Okay.
And then she actually did likeyou can correct me, but it was
like 300 times the amount, itwas 550 times the amount and she
actually took LSD.
And what's funny about thatstory and you can get into that

(11:25):
later- no, you can tell me.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh okay, I literally just read this.
I don't have it in my notes,but I was going to share it.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Okay, is that she like meant to snort a line of
Coke?
So, just like whatever.
And then she actually hadhealing benefits from doing so
much LSD Cause.
Didn't it like, did, did?
Was she bipolar or?
Um, well, there's actually withaddiction or something.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
She struggled with addiction.
Um, there was also like and shewas, she was on opiates and um,
from like a foot injury thathappened like 20 years prior,
like she also had lyme disease.
So she was like reallystruggling.
So yeah, she did a line of Cokethat she thought was Coke and
it was LSD.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Imagine, like accidentally healing yourself,
but you actually meant to do aline of cocaine.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, yes, that's fucking insane.
There was another story where,like a teenage girl took too
much, she really struggled withher like um that one was that
one was bipolar.
Yes, that was the one that wasbipolar.
And um months later she like nolonger has suicidal ideations
and it's just fucking wild Cause.
You're like I'm going to getfucked up.

(12:36):
And you're like, oh, Iaccidentally healed myself.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
It's so funny because yesterday I went to the hair
salon and there was anotherhairstylist working with another
girl and the woman was talkingabout all I heard is war on
drugs and LSD.
Wait what, yeah?
And so I heard this in the hairsalon, yes.
And so I turned around and I'mlike, um, excuse me, what are

(13:01):
you guys talking about?
What are you guys talking about?
See this, uh, mushroom on myarm.
See this mushroom on my arm.
What are you guys chattingabout?
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
And they were talking about psychedelics and I was
like well, I am at the rightplace.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Let's talk, shut up.
Can I join in on theconversation?
Yes, it was.
It was, I think, a nursepractitioner is what she said,
but she was going to move.
She got a job offer to likework, have a place in
psychedelic therapy legally.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, if I were ever to go back to school and I and
part of me is like God, I wishit was like a nurse, that I
could do that, or I wish I wentand did therapy like you know
but you didn't know.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Then you're just learning this stuff.
Yeah, you know, we're learningthis stuff now and I think
you're meant to be in the spaceEventually there will be a space
for, you know, some nobodieslike me not a nobody.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
I don't mean like nobody isn't like I'm a nobody.
I mean like I don't have adegree in this shit.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
You're not a doctor, you're not a nurse practitioner,
you're not a nurse, you're nota therapist.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I have a PhD in life, okay.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, I have a master's in played and having
fun, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So he took this substance and thought he was
dying.
He gets home, calls the doctor,she comes over and she's like
you're not dying.
But he woke up the next day acompletely changed person, had a
new perspective on life, likehad an appreciation for small
things, like really just feltlike holy shit, I just

(14:53):
discovered something profound.
So he started reaching out todoctors and psychiatrists and
they started doing research.
And this is again.
This is in the 1940s, 1940s and50s.
So this is not a new wave of itis a new wave but, like this is

(15:14):
not the first time psychedelicshave had a wave of interest.
So doctors all over startedusing this in psychiatry.
They started actually doingresearch and clinical trials and
they did, you know, psychedelicpsychotherapy with a lot of
people and for people with PTSD,for people who had mental

(15:36):
health issues, for alcoholics,and they were finding such
profound results.
Here's where it got really darkand tricky.
A lot of people were like, oh,this is such a powerful
substance I could use this for aweapon, as a weapon.

(15:56):
So government started gettingahold of it.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I was going to say are you going to start bringing
up the government?
Speaking of like people whotreat people terribly?
Yes, Speaking of like peoplewho absolutely treat people
terribly.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, who experiment on people without them?

Speaker 2 (16:07):
knowing about people.
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
The government Exactly.
So the government gets a holdof it.
And I'm talking to othercountries.
And so the U?
S is like fuck, all thesecountries are coming like are
using LSD to like do mindcontrol and dah dah, dah.
So we need to get on this.
To like do mind control and dada, da.
So we need to get on this.
So the us this is how it gotover to the us.

(16:30):
The cia brought it to the us.
The fucking cia brought it likeit didn't like get here on ship
for you know, because peoplewere like passing it back and
forth, like isn't that how theunabomber came about?

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, and we'll get into that.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Okay, yes, so fucking crazy, so crazy, so the
government starts using it andthey're doing like MKUltra
experiments.
And let me be very clear LSD ispowerful, so are other
psychedelics powerful, so areother psychedelics.

(17:08):
And this is why set and settingare so important, because,
depending on the intentionbehind, why and how you're doing
it, the results can belife-changing in a good way or
life-changing in a bad way.
Yeah, so the cia started thisprogram called mk ultra and they
were actually they were findlike use it as like a truth
serum type situation, but inorder to use it on people they

(17:33):
couldn't tell them they wereusing it.
It's really fucked up, likethey would use it on prisoners,
so they were drugging themwithout their knowledge.
They were, and a lot of peoplethat they were doing this on
were like drug addicts anyway.
So they were like, well, who'sgoing to care if they die?
And who's?

Speaker 2 (17:48):
going to believe them , wasn't it a lot of the?

Speaker 1 (17:51):
black community.
Yeah, there was like a prisonin Kentucky actually where they
experimented on prisoners andthey really just didn't have a
choice and they were like fedLSD for days and days and days
and days straight.
So wrong dosing, Wrong, noteven wrong dosing.
It was like what they weretrying to do, but like what they

(18:11):
were essentially trying to dois wipe their brains.
So they were fucking mindtorturing these people to wipe
their brains clean and then putin what they wanted to put in.
It's real fucked up.
And the guy who was the head towipe their brains clean and
then put in what they wanted toput in it's real fucked up.
And the guy who was the headand I don't know all the details
about MKUltra.
There's actually a really goodpodcast and I'll recommend it in

(18:33):
a minute.
The guy who was in charge ofMKUltra hired this like Nazi
doctors to help him experimenton people, and japanese doctors
who were very big into, like,torturing people so what did
they do?

(18:53):
well, and some of the thingsthat they would do like this
well, I don't want to get intothat, like it's fucking dark,
but like, okay, you know theseprisoners, these black prisoners
that they would use, like theyknew they were being drugged but
like kind of didn't have afucking choice.
Um, another thing that theywould do is they would hire
hookers to lure men intoapartments and give them acid

(19:18):
and they would have a two-waymirror and like they would watch
what, like what happened.
It's real fucked up.
So, whoa, um, there is aconnection to the unabomber and
mk ultra and there's actuallylike one of those myths about
people falling out of 10-storybuildings yeah that came from mk

(19:41):
ultra too.
somebody committed suicide andevery the story was like, oh my
God, he did LSD and thought hecould fly and jumped out of a
building.
Like no, actually he was beingexperimented on and wanted to
end his life.
Like it's real fucked up.
So the Unabomber was one ofthose people from heart that he
was like a Harvard graduate andthey were like doing real fucked

(20:03):
up shit to him.
And I don't want to get likeinto that situation.
But in his manifesto, like hewas talking about like the
torture, nobody ever talkedabout that.
When that happened, no, um,they weren't like oh, and, by
the way, he was just vilified.
The government really fuckedhim up and nobody believed him.
The government really fuckedhim up and nobody believed him.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Now is this a myth, but is Charles Manson part of
that?
That?

Speaker 1 (20:29):
is a myth that has not been proven.
There are connections to himand some of the people from MK
Ultra.
The podcast I'm going torecommend because I don't want
to go too far into this thisisn't what I wanted to do or
make this a part of the podcastis Armchair Experts, dax Shepard

(20:50):
, and if you just go in thereand search MKUltra, like it is a
fascinating episode, likereally it's one of those
conspiracy theories thatactually wasn't a conspiracy.
Like there's proof like thiswas all done in the us, um, and

(21:11):
there's proof of a lot of thestuff.
They, whenever they were shutdown, whenever this, uh, mk
ultra shut down, they likestarted shredding papers and
started a fire but there werelike boxes of stuff that didn't
get destroyed.
Yeah, yeah, they wereexperimenting on kids and shit.
Like it's fucking kids, it'shorrible and the government knew
they set it up, but it's kindof like the Marshall Islands

(21:39):
it's.
I mean, it's not kind of likeit, but like you know the things
that the government does withno remorse and think the way
that they're like well, we'lljust experiment on them.
They'll never know, like howthey were.
Like Explain a little bit, likeabout what they were doing to
the Marshall Islands.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
So in the 40s and 50s , the government did the same
time.
Oh God, yeah, they did nucleartesting on the island and the
natives did not know about it,and so I think they let off.
It was over the course of 12years.

(22:18):
So fucked up, like yeah, themlike yeah.
And so you know again, at thattime they were very indigenous
and not americanized at all.
And so you're on an island.
It's in between hawaii andaustralia and it's never snowed
there before, so white particlesare falling from the sky and

(22:43):
they're taking it, thinking it'ssnow, and they're rubbing it on
their skin, eating it.
Oh my god, and because of thatit made our people very, very
sick cancer.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Um, I mean, that's still happening, like from some
of the radiation, right?
Oh yeah, because so they.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
They did that on purpose to see how high levels
of radiation would impact people, so they really they used us as
experiments.
Um, and so women would havelike jellyfish babies, where
they would have a baby and haveno bones translucent,
translucent skin.
I mean, it was just like thisblob.

(23:24):
Fun fact is, the show SpongeBobSquarePants is based on bikini,
so Bikini Atoll is where theydid it, and Bikini Atoll in 2024
is still too toxic of an islandto live on.
And so SpongeBob SquarePantsit's about the mutated sea life

(23:48):
in the Marshall.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Islands.
What?
Yes, shut the fuck up.
Yeah, yeah, did not know that.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, so now there's this cement dome.
They had all this like toxicwaste and then they just covered
it with the cement dome andMarshallese people are like like
this could erupt at any minute,like get this out of here.
And the US government is likeyour land, your problem, oh my.

(24:15):
God, and it's like no, but youinvaded our land.
You made islands too toxic tolive on.
You made our people sick.
You took advantage of peoplewho are known to be very kind
and giving and exploited them.
What's and we don't learn about?
Mk I was we don't learn aboutjust the marshall islands in

(24:35):
history.
Nowhere in history did we learnthat, nowhere and I am
embarrassed to say this and Istill I would love someone who
is marshallese to come on andeducate me more about this,
because there's still a lot thatI don't know.
But like, even growing up Ididn't know that about my own
country where I was born from.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's so wild and I think the most fucked up thing.
Well, that's not it's not themost fucked up, but another
fucked up thing about that isthat, like the government's
apology to you was to grant youcitizenship.
Yeah, so now Marshallese peoplehave US citizenship and it's
almost like sorry, we fucked youup here.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
You can come here if you want.
Well, and they got a settlement, but it only went to people
that had that were rich on theisland.
But the thing is and thenthat's another another topic too
it's like island life is verydifferent than the American way.
So, yes, people come here tohave a better life, but then
it's really hard to adjust tothis culture and the way that we

(25:35):
do things, and that's its ownstruggle in itself.
Yeah, I can't, and you know alot of, I think, marshallese
people are looked down onbecause of the way that we live.
It's not the American way, butyou know.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Fuck the American way .

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's a whole.
We could get another episode onthat, I know.
I know that would be a reallygood episode.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
I know I'm trying If you could find someone to talk
about that, to go into moredetail about that.
So, anyway, enough about likethe government's play in this Um
, because, again, that could bean entire episode on its own and
I am not well enough preparedto speak on it.
So find the armchair expert,dax Shepard's podcast.
Search MK ultra.

(26:19):
There's only one about it andyou're going to like shit your
pants about it and you're goingto like shit your pants.
It's so good, um, okay, so, uh,some.
I'm going to name some of thebig players in LSD.
Um, after like the forties andfifties, it started kind of

(26:39):
leaking its way into society andit wasn't just in the hands of
researchers or psychiatrists ordoctors anymore and again, even
with the CIA like they weren'tthe only ones with their hands
on this, by the way, likeimpalement went on for like
decades.
Like it's wild how long it wenton.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
In the 60s and 70s.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Okay, yeah, so I'm going to go over some of the big
, big, big like players whoreally made a name for LSD Ken
Kesey.
He was actually the author ofOne.
Flew Over the Cuckoo's.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Nest.
Ok, I was like I have no ideawho that is, but I do know.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
And he wrote that book before he was into this
stuff.
Ok, he the book is based.
I've never read the book, but Iknow that a lot of like people
have to read it in high schooland stuff.
I think my husband said he itwas one of those books he had to
read.
I never had to read it, um, butthe book is written.
It's a fictional book but it'swritten about a psychiatric

(27:39):
patient um, a schizophrenicpatient in a psych ward.
I'm fucking that up.
I'm really sorry, but that wasmy understanding of it.
He worked as a nurse's aide in apsych ward, like in real life
Ken Kesey did.
So he had access to LSD when itwas like being used in the
clinical trials and the researchdepartment like literally

(28:02):
opened a drawer one time andfound a bottle with 500 LSD tabs
and took it out.
So he experienced it.
And then he started a groupcalled the Mary pranksters where
, like, he started like passingit out to friends and they would
, um, they had a big giant busthat was like super fucking

(28:23):
colorful and they would trap.
Their goal was like we're gonnatravel across the states to new
york, so they're in likecalifornia west end.
They're gonna travel to newyork on this bus and they're
gonna like get people to takelsd and they're gonna record it
and they're gonna make a movieout of it and it's gonna be
really fucking cool.
There's a book written by tomwolf that's called God.

(28:45):
I'm going to forget what it'scalled.
Yeah, I already forgot whatit's called and I didn't take a
note, but there's, I'll, I'llwrite it in.
Um, there's a book about itwhere one of the original Mary
prankster guys like wrote hisabout his experiences.
It's called like, like theexperience whatever, the acid

(29:06):
test, the acid test or something.
What they would do is theywould have these parties called
the acid test and, um, theywould invite people and you paid
like a dollar at the door andthey would give you acid and
they had a band and it wouldjust be this entire whole
fucking experience.
You go into this like party andyou're like having the fucking

(29:26):
time of your life.
One of those bands was calledthe Warlocks.
The Warlocks would later be theGrateful Dead.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
They changed their name because there was another
band that went by, the Warlocks,and they were like.
They were literally just like asmall band in California, in
the Bay Area, like they had abig local following.
Band that went by, the warlocks, and they were like, they were
literally just like a small bandin california, in the bay area,
like they had a big localfollowing.
I'm gonna just say this beforeI forget.
But there were a group of kidsin the 60s who, um, would meet

(30:01):
outside of school every day at 4, 20, over by like the wall at
the end of school and they wouldsmoke weed.
They were like their groupies,they were the warlocks groupies
and they were always at theirshows.
And so 420 just kind of likegot circulated into this little
group of people and they wouldbe like who's 420, you know, and

(30:24):
they'd start toking up and sothat's how the grateful dead is
connected to 420 oh and 419,you're gonna be blown even
further because it gets so muchbigger than that.
The story like walls off.
Okay, so, um, ken keezy hasthis group of the merry
pranksters, and actually one of,like the founding members of

(30:45):
the mary pranksters, ended upmarrying the grateful dead um
lead singer jerry garcia.
Oh, okay, maybe he was the leadguitarist, I don't fucking know
.
But the biggest name and yeah Iprobably did, but they ended up
getting married eventually, um,but I just thought that was cool
because she was part of theMary pranksters.
They were part of, you know,the band that small started, so

(31:08):
small, doing these acid tests.
Are is.
Are they still alive?
Um, not, jerry Garcia, I knowthat one for sure.
I don't know.
Okay, honestly, that's how badI am at this.
Like, I'm probably going tostart listening to the grateful
dead after this.
Yeah, it's like listen, I'vebeen doing research for days.

(31:29):
I didn't have time, but I waslike I need to start listening
to them.
Um, okay, so the Mary prankstersthe thing is in the West, in
California, they were reallyreally big about like having fun
and being weird and likeletting loose and like there was
nothing that like police wouldpull them over every now and

(31:50):
then, but there was reallynothing they could do because
lsd wasn't illegal.
Like it was kind of this weirdgray area where they're like, oh
my god, these fucking hippies,you know, but they were all like
free and like this is likethink, like the hippies and the
woodstock era, like this is whatthis group of merry pranksters
was, and they traveled for likea decade before ken kesey

(32:12):
finally, like I, can onlyimagine the shit that was going
on in that bus.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Oh right, like like I'm just gonna say like the
orgies and just like shit likethat.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
I don't know if that was happening.
I don't know.
I mean, we're not talking aboutan IndyMA group here, I just
feel like, but I feel like, likeI don't know, Psychedelics,
hippies free spirit, you mightbe right.
So what's interesting is okay.
So the biggest producer of LSDat that time um around like 1958

(32:49):
, um Sandoz, which is like thatoriginal Swiss company.
That was like producing um LSDas a medicine.
The patent ran out, theystarted to see how much it was
being used for bad and so theystopped producing it.
Oh shit.
So when the patent ran out andand sando stopped producing it,

(33:13):
um, it started going underground.
Owlsley this is where it getsinteresting.
Um owlsley stanley he was thesound engineer for the grateful
dead.
Okay was like I'm to figure outhow to make it.
So he spent weeks in a fuckinglibrary reading up on how to
make LSD the purest LSD and hestarted making it.

(33:34):
So like, if you were around inthe 60s and you were doing LSD,
there was a big, big chance thatwhat you were taking was made
by Owsley Damn yeah.
So that's like wild to me.
He was the sound engineer forthe Grateful Dead.

(33:56):
He was one of the best LSDchemists in the Bay Area and
there were people who wanted tolike apprentice under him.
That's how good he was.
So one of the documentaries thatI'm going to recommend is the
Sunshine Makers.
It's these two guys who one ofthem his name is Nick Scully,
and then there's like or TimScully and Nick Sand.

(34:17):
So Tim Scully was, like I wantto apprentice under you, dude, I
want to learn how to make this.
And so he worked with him,learned how to make it.
They made it for a long time.
And the he worked with him,learned how to make it.
They made it for a long time.
And the really cool thing aboutlike the people who are making
it, they were like pretty muchgiving this shit out for free.

(34:39):
They weren't trying to do it tomake money.
There wasn't like a big pharmaprice tag on it.
They were literally just tryingto change the world.
So the Sunshine Makers is aboutTim Scully and Nick Sand and
their story is fuckingunbelievably fascinating.
Like you see this guy at thebeginning of the documentary and
he's like doing naked yoga andhe's like this older, like in

(34:59):
his 80s, fat guy and he's justdoesn't give a fuck.
And he's like all about loveand light and I'm like what kind
of drugs do you know thatproduce that kind of person?
Like you're not doing heroin ormeth, and being like this is
going to change the world.
Like you do that and you'relike, oh, I'm fucked.
Well, there goes my life.

(35:20):
You know, like this is the typeof drug where you meet people
like who were in that 60s and70s era and you're like they're
just a great human, like how didthat happen?
Oh, it's the drugs.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's how I felt about mushrooms.
The first time I did mushrooms,I was like why aren't more
people talking about this?
Why Like?
Why?
Why is this?

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Why are we being warned about this?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Like, why?
Why is this?
Why are we being warned aboutthis?
Yeah, like I feel so light andat peace right now.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Right, what the fuck?
Right?
So I just think that theirstory is fascinating too, and
you know these people who did it.
They knew that they were takinga big risk, especially being
underground, especially becauseit also played a huge role in
the counterculture movement.
I cannot talk about thiswithout talking about Timothy

(36:14):
Leary.
So, while this is happening inthe West, in California, in the
East there is Timothy Leary,richard Alpert and who else, who
else?
I don't fucking remember whoelse, but it's on this book
Ralph Metzner, okay.
Okay, so they werepsychiatrists at Harvard.

(36:36):
Okay, so they're around thesame time that this is happening
in the West, they're realizingthe, the psychological benefits
of lsd, and they start giving itto people.
Their story, though, is verydifferent, and you're going to
find some similarities in theculture like a more like
clinical, like even more okay,spiritual, ceremonial, like they

(37:02):
like timothy leary is theperson who coined like set and
setting Gotcha they talk so muchabout, like who you do it with
and how you do it is going to bethe biggest factor in the
experience, or in the experiencethat you have, in the lessons
that you get out of it.
It's I heard this, but I don'tknow how true this is so, like a
typical dose of LSD and andthis, this is this might be

(37:25):
where I get it fucked up or getit wrong, but it's between like
50 and 200 micrograms so it's soso so small.
It's a small small amount.
Um, the mary pranksters weredoing like 25 micrograms,
probably a little bit, probablymore than that.
Um, timothy leary and his crew,they're like no, a thousand

(37:47):
micrograms.
So they're like going deep intotheir subconscious.
You know, like working on theirshit.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, they're not at a concert serious about it.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Um, and so there was this like clash between like no,
this is how you do it.
It it's about freedom and fun,and you know this both, though
there were some overlaps in howthey like felt about how it was
working.
They were like fuck society,fuck rules.
You know both of them weresaying this, and Timothy Leary

(38:21):
is the same person who alsocoined the term tune in, turn in
and drop out, and it wasn'tnecessarily about like dropping
out of school.
It was more like hey, drop outof these societal norms.
And he was like school is ascam, which it is.
It is like that's a wholenother episode.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I love how we still agree with him.
How many years later, right,and then there's probably a lot
of people who do like you know.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
I wouldn't have said that five years ago.
I'd be like no, all my kids aregoing to college and now I'm
like college is a fucking scamand school is literally just
here, to create busy bodies andworkers and you know, it's
burnout.
I probably think that becauseI've done psychedelics, so all
of this is in like the late 60s.
Okay, so Timothy Leary andRichard Alpert which, by the way

(39:17):
, I love the Richard Alpertstory, because have you ever
heard of Ram Dass?
Yes, that's Richard Alpert,same guy, he.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Wait, Richard Alpert is Ram Dass.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yes.
So he had such a profoundexperience with LSD he was like
there's got to be a way toobtain this enlightenment, this
feeling, without the drugs.
So his story is different thanTimothy Leary's.
Timothy Leary became like theposter child for like LSD rebels

(39:53):
, like he was arrested, spentlife in prison.
You know, just crazy, crazyfucking story.
He was hated by every likestand, you know, upstanding
American citizen Like he'sruining our culture.
Because he started this wholemovement against the Vietnam war
.
And it wasn't just him, it waslike a mixture of like all of

(40:13):
these, like little subculturesof fuck the system, love and
light, like fuck the war, youknow.
But he became the poster childfor it because he's so
charismatic.
But he became the poster childfor it because he's so
charismatic.
And I mean he was a leader buthe led this movement in the East
.
Richard Alpert was like I'mgoing to move to India and study

(40:39):
under monks, and he did.
He spent decades india workingon finding this enlightenment
without the use of drugs.
Is that how he turned into ramdas?
Yes, he changed his name to ramdas.
He's written several books.
There's several documentariesabout him becoming um, or be
here now is one of them um, Ihave a couple of them back there

(41:01):
and I'm blanking on the namesof the other ones, but they're,
they're really good books.
Like he was, like such aenlightened presence, like his
words.
The playlist that I gave youhave you listened to it yet?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Oh, the psychedelic playlist.
I sat for somebody.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Did they listen to it ?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yes, the last song.
I have not personally listenedto it, did you?

Speaker 1 (41:27):
get to the last song where he's, where there's a
voice that's Ram Dass.
Yeah, he became this likespiritual enlightened guru.
Okay, and I hate using the wordenlightened, because we're all
continuously becoming moreenlightened, but there is no
like I, am you reach?

Speaker 2 (41:46):
that it's like healed .
Yes, yes, it's like we'realways on a field, yeah, like
we're always healed, right.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Even when you think you've healed something.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
There's still more work to do.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
You probably have it, yeah, Like you've worked
through it a lot, but it stillmight show up in some ways.
And to me, healing is likemoving through those in a little
bit more of a graceful way andhaving more awareness around

(42:16):
those and anyway, so, um, they Ireally like.
There's this guy.
His name is Hamilton Morris.
He is the um, the guy who hasthe show Hamilton's Pharmacopia,
oh yeah, On Apple TV or mightbe even Hulu.
Now His dad was like adocumentary there's a word for
it Documentarian, I don't knowwhat it is, but his dad was a

(42:37):
famous like documentary guy andso he started doing all these
documentaries, little miniseries like docu series about
substances.
And what I really like abouthis show Hamilton's Pharmacopia
which we have linked on ourwebsite, by the way, in our
resources is he talks about thescience of the drug and then he
talks about, like, themetaphysical side of the drug

(42:57):
and like the effects that it hason people, and then sometimes
at the end he experiences thedrug himself and he talks about
it.
Okay, so I really like hisepisodes.
He has some on LSD and thensometimes at the end he
experiences the drug himself andhe talks about it, shit Okay.
So I really like his episodes.
He has some on LSD, he has themon mescaline, he has them on
like literally every psychedelicsubstance you could imagine.
He has all these little serieson it.
One of the things that he saidabout like this clashing of like

(43:19):
no, it's this way.
And love and light and be weirdand get naked, and then they're
like no, it needs to be donethis way.
How much does that remind youof the way that it is today?
Like you shouldn't be doing itat music festivals.
It needs to be.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
You need to be so serious about it.
Well, it kind of reminds me of,like the flack we get yeah,
because it's like.
No, you can't be psychonautsbecause you don't look like this
.
No, you can't be psychonautsbecause you don't fit in this
box.
Oh, I bet, by the looks of you,you haven't done five grams or
like, like, and I'm like aren'twe on the same team?

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Right, yeah, that's kind of like this clashing of
like this is how it needs to bedone.
No, this is how it needs to bedone.
Why can't it be done both ways,right?
So Hamilton Morris the way heexplains it is, I love it.
He was just like it's kind oflike musical taste.
And he says I would never doLSD in an uncontrolled
environment, I would never do itat a concert, I would never do
it at a music festival.
I prefer it solo, introspective, ceremonial.

(44:21):
I have never done it that way,like me personally.
So he was like it's just aboutlike it's musical taste.
There's no right way or wrongway, but you may have a
different experience with oneversus the other.
Yeah, so I've said before likeI've done LSD three times now,
like in larger doses.

(44:42):
Can I ask you what your dosewas I'm gonna be honest, I don't
fucking know.
Okay, like when you have thesetabs, like there's like a
certain amount on each tab and Idon't know the amount.
I was that like you're goingagainst our old rules I know, I
know, I mean, I know that likeyou're going against our own
rules.
I know, I know, I mean, I knowthat like it's the dose that

(45:05):
like is like a single dose.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
But um, so I know that it's safe and I'm not going
to take two tabs.
No, I did that one time, thoughwe can talk about that later.
Um, my bad.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
I went against our own rules.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I'm an experimenter and I'm telling you I fucked up,
but it turned out to not be sobad.
So I don't even like to say itwas a fuck up.
It was like it worked out.
But yeah, so like you take atab and you're fucked up for
like 12, 14 hours.
I hate saying fucked up becauseit's like nobody would know
we're on acid.
And do you remember the lasttime I did it was?

(45:49):
It was four of us at a cabinand we took it at like two or
three o'clock and like weekslater, one of the people that
was on that was on this tripwith us.
She was like oh my god, Itotally forgot to ask you how
was the LSD?
And I was like we were on itthe whole time.
Like she thought we took itafter they went to bed and I was
like no, we were, we were on itthe whole time.
Oh my god, how did she not know?

(46:11):
Because you don't seem likeyou're on a drug.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
You're right, but you just think that you guys would
be like talking about it.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
I don't know I know, I know, I know well, they were
on mushrooms so it's like maybethey like weren't paying
attention to what we were doing,because they're yeah Anyway, so
it's just interesting.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Well, what do you always say?
You always say okay, somushrooms feel like home.
Mdma is love, ayahuasca ismother, lsd is your inner child.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Play it's play, it's fun.
And again, I will say that isbased on my experiences and who
I was doing it with.
I was never doing it to do likea heroic journey.
I don't even know if there areheroic journeys in lsd, but
that's probably what timothyleary and his crew were doing,
you know like or the girl whostarted that cocaine all right,

(47:02):
or thought she was snorting thecocaine.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
She had a fucking experience.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
And I mean, here's the thing Like she was like the
girl who did that much, was likepuking for 12 hours like
nonstop, and to somebody who'swatching that you're like, oh
God, they're dying.
But to someone who is anexperienced psychonaut you're
like, oh, she's just purging,she's just having an ego death,
she's just really getting rid ofall the stuff in her body that
she's poisoned it with.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
When I went to the hair salon yesterday, I was
talking about ayahuasca and Iwas saying how I like I was the
first one to throw up.
And then I was the one who justkept throwing up and they were
like oh God, that soundsterrible.
And I was like, no, I was justpurging, it was fine.
I was purging the fact that,like that's the, that sounds
terrible.
And I was like, no, I was justpurging, it was fine.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I was purging the fact that, like that's the thing
that scares people from doingit, they're like I don't want to
puke.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Like what?
And you know what I say I'mlike, but it's not like regular
puking, it's not.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
It's because it's not , it's like when you're regular
puking you're like this is theworst, but like ayahuasca,
puking is like like you openyour mouth and it comes out and
you feel like I needed that.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Literally you're like that wasn't that bad, literally
yeah.
Like you open your mouth and itjust falls out.
Also random, weird fact, itdoesn't make your breath smell
like you don't you don't pukebreath.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm like whatthe fuck?
I just like puked like 17 timeswithin the last two hours.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
And my breath doesn't smell.
Can I make an assumption as towhy?
Sure, it might be because ofall the fasting and shit that we
did, okay, and the diet that wefollowed, probably Like we
didn't have a lot of stuff inour system that needed to be
broken down.
Possibly that makes sense.
Okay, could just be the drug,right, but that's just an
assumption that I literally justlike.

(48:51):
Maybe that's why it doesn'tcome out.
It's like, literally just likestomach acid.
I just snorted a little bit.
Okay, let me go over this andmake sure I'm not missing
anything, cause I'm reallytrying to do this in like a way
that I'm not reading and I'mjust trying to go by memory.
Um, okay, another, so let'stake it back a little bit.

(49:14):
Um, well, first off, let mejust say in the in 1970, richard
Nixon like created the scheduleone act, which is, or, he
didn't create it, but he put allthese drugs on the Schedule I
Act because he was like they'reruining our culture and it's
really because he was trying toget people to go to Vietnam,

(49:34):
yeah, and people were droppingout of wanting to go and
fighting against the war.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
It's so interesting to me.
I feel like there are a lot ofpeople who loved Nixon.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Who Like boomers yeah yeah no offense, some of you
are cool, some of you were partof that counterculture and we
love you for sorry, but now I'mlike yeah actually yeah, now

(50:05):
that you say that.
And when I say boomer, I don'tmean that in like a negative way
, like I'm a millennial, likeit's just a fact like I'm a
fucking millennial.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I'm like yeah, there wasn't like a gen z or
millennial that who?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
who?
Christine boomers?
Oh yeah, yeah, that's you, um,so I am going to rewind a little
bit.
Um, because during all of thisthere is aldex huxley.
He wrote brave new world in1932, which was like a big, like

(50:42):
um, um, a big thing.
It's super fucking famousanyway.
And then he wrote the doors ofperception in 1954.
And that book is one speakingabout his experience with, like
mescaline and peyote and DM ornot DMT, well, maybe DMT, I
don't know, I haven't read thebook, but he's talking about his

(51:03):
experience with psychedelics.
Bill Wilson oh, here we go,that's where he comes in, ok, ok
, side note, in my little rabbithole of Bill Wilson, I came
across some really negativethings about him and the 13th
step.
I never knew what the 13th stepwas, but I've heard people talk

(51:28):
about it.
Um, and it's really kind offucked up.
It's where, like um, aftersomebody finishes the 12 steps,
they get this like ego powertrip and they take advantage of
like women who are like startingout.
So it's like really fucked up.
But AA was like written for men, like it was like made for men,
built by men, a verypatriarchal, like man led group,

(51:56):
and so there's a lot ofnegative stuff about Bill Wilson
out there.
Gotcha, that doesn't take awayfrom all the good that he has
done.
Necessary Well, I mean it kindof fucking does, and it doesn't.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, aa is still he.
He still did good things.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
He still did good things.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yes, um, so this is interesting.
So Bill Wilson met um, alexHuxley was reading about LSD.
Um, alex Huxley was readingabout LSD.
This is like 20 years after AAwas a thing, by the way, like he
started AA 20 years prior tohis first LSD experience.

(52:35):
He was one of the foundingmembers.
One of the other foundingmember was, like, very, very,
very religious and Bill Wilsonwasn't.
He was spiritual, but that isbecause he had this experience
before he got sober with, like,bella Donna.
It was like at a rehab centerback in the thirties, which is

(52:55):
why does that sound familiar?
It's not something that's usedanymore.
It was.
It was a hallucinogen that theyused to use for alcoholics.
He had this experience on itand he had this vision of like
people coming together aroundthe world and getting sober and
that's essentially what got himsober, but it's not what kept

(53:16):
him sober.
So I'm going to go into a littlebit of the Bill Wilson stuff,
all right, going to go into alittle bit of the bill wilson
stuff, um, all right.
So after all this stuff aboutlsd started coming out and aldix
huxley wrote his book, and thenthere's like another um, who
else, uh, god, I can't remember.

(53:39):
Anyway, there's somebody elsethat I I'm blanking on their
name, but they were inconversation with um Bill Wilson
and he came to believe that LSDcould potentially help cynical
alcoholics.
He was like following up andlearning more about their
studies with and their researchwith alcoholics and LSD and was

(53:59):
like interested in it.
But um was still very hesitant.
So it said he thought that itcould maybe help cynical
alcoholics achieve a spiritualawakening.
And if you are not familiar withthe 12 steps, they say that
like, once you get through allthe steps you have a spiritual
awakening.
And I used to I've said this inan episode before but that used

(54:20):
to really bother me.
To really bother me.
Like my husband is in a, likein he's not religious about it,
like a lot of people are, butlike, from what I understand of
it, I used to be like, so you'retelling me you just get to a
step and have a spiritualawakening.
No, that doesn't.
That's not how that works.

(54:40):
Like that doesn't make sense tome.
Like something has to provokethat Like some.
That has to be, that has tocome on by something.
Some people do wake up andthey're like holy shit, right,
nothing is as it seems, but likeevery now and then it's like
some type of catastrophe foryour event or something.
Hallucinogen, yeah, that comesalong and pushes you on this

(55:02):
path to like awakening, allright.
So he thought initially that thesubstance could help others,
but he was afraid to bring it topeople because of their idea
that, like how could a drugpossibly help drug addicts not
be drug addicts anymore?
So he was like skeptical.
But then he went and tried itfor the first time in 1956 at a

(55:28):
VA hospital.
Oh wow.
After his first experience hewas like OK.
So he used to think that itwould be something that would
terrify drinkers into gettingsober, which is essentially what
Bella Donna did for him back inthe 30s.
It like basically terrified himinto getting sober.
So he did, so that's what he.

(55:50):
He was just like well, maybeLSD works the same way.
And after his first experiencehe was like oh well, maybe it's
insight, not terror, because hefelt like he got more insight
from it.
I'm not reading this wholething, by the way.
I have things highlighted, sothis is what he said in a letter
that he wrote.
I am certain that the LSDexperiment has helped me very

(56:11):
much.
I find myself with a heightenedcolor perception and an
appreciation of beauty almostdestroyed by my years of
depression.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Humphrey Osmond, that's the other name.
So Humphrey Osmond was aBritish psychiatrist who
actually coined the termpsychedelic.
Psychedelic didn't have a namebefore.
He was one of thosepsychiatrists who was working in
the clinical research and again, this is like in the 50s and
60s, so before it was scheduleone.
Psychedelic psyche is mind.

(56:44):
Um, psychedelic psyche is mind,and he used the word delos,
which means mind altering oralter.
Explore, oh god, exploration,yeah, thank you.
So psychedelic is just like anexploration of the mind.
What did they say?
Hang on, I have noteseverywhere.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry youguys.

(57:07):
There's no fucking way I couldremember this, okay.
So aldix huxley and osmondhumphrey osmond.
They wrote letters back andforth and in some of these
letters they found um, um.
So osmond came up with the wordpsychedelic.
Oh yeah, delos is to likemanifest or reveal um.
And huxley wrote back in theletter.

(57:28):
He was just like to fathom hellor sore angelic, just take a
pinch of psychedelic.
So that was like a big termused in psychedelics too.
Anyway, he was not, by the way,humphrey osmond was not a
proponent of it being used inthe counterculture, like when
that started happening, he wasjust like I don't want to do
this anymore okay so he wasreally big on this should be

(57:52):
used in psychiatry, in clinicalsettings.
Like this should not be out inthe public for public use and
distribution.
Like you guys are gonna fuckthis up and we kind of did for a
long time.
So, um, he was like bill wilsonwas worried about the way that
people would like take him ifthey knew that he was doing all

(58:14):
of these lsd, um, notexperiments, but he was part of
the experiment.
He was doing these on a regularbasis.
It wasn't like a one and donething, um.
But he wrote in a letter um,alcoholics get to the point in
the program where they need aspiritual experience but not all
of them are able to have one.
So he noticed within the groupsof AA and again, this is 20

(58:38):
years later, so it's got a very,very, very big community.
At this point.
If you went into AA atheist,like, it was very hard to
achieve that like belief in ahigher power, a lot of people,
because they were religious,already had that instilled in
them, you know.

(58:59):
So they did believe in God.
But if you were an atheist like, could you imagine like walking
in?
That's why so many people areturned away from aa, because
they're like it's too religiousfor me and I'm like, but it's
not.
It's spiritual, it's differentbecause they talk about, like,
believing in god and having ahigher power.
Um, and if you're not spiritualor religious, right you're gonna

(59:22):
hear that doesn't register andbe like so god, I don't fucking
believe in god, you know right,um.
Uh, so he actually wroteletters defending his drug use
and there were several peoplewho followed him into this like
little subculture of aa wherethey were using lsd to like have

(59:45):
these spiritual experiences andit wasn't like done, all the
fucking time they weren't usingit as a drug.
You know, um, but in 1958, hedefended his drug use in a long
letter but soon afterwardsremoved himself from the group.
Oh my God, I didn't know that.
I did not know that.
It says he removed himself fromthe AA governing body to be
free to do the experiments.

(01:00:05):
Wow, there is an anonymousauthor who wrote his official
biography and it's and he wroteabout.
I wonder who wrote that?
That's always like, like, whenyou have an anonymous author of
a biography, it's like how doyou know that that person really
?
Yeah, yeah, I mean I, I don'tknow anyway, the.

(01:00:27):
He wrote, um, that wilson feltlike lsd helped him eliminate
many barriers erected by theself or ego that stand in the
way of one's direct experiencesof the cosmos and of god.
He thought he might have foundsomething that could make a big
difference to the lives of manywho still suffered.
All right, that's all about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Bill.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Wilson, interesting, I know you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
I love this right now .
Okay, so then we had two pins.
Okay, did we get them out?
I don't think so.
Okay, first one LSD andmicrodosing.
Yes, lsd and microdosing yes.
Now she's got a book.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Okay.
Why does microdosing LSD helpsomebody who has ADHD and
struggles or struggles withfocus?
I really think it's about likeslowing your mind down enough to
focus.
Like you've used it, you'vemicrodosed LSD.
I prefer.

(01:01:30):
I'm like a very emotionalperson and so are you like.
I'm not saying that you're not,but like because I'm a
manifester, like I am veryemotionally and heart led.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Like I don't have all those like gut instincts follow
my heart.
So, like for me, I tend togravitate.
It's kind of like with my music.
Like I gravitate towardsheartfelt stuff.
I gravitate towards things Ican feel at an emotion, at a
highly emotional level.
Um, so I prefer microdosingmushrooms, I don't know why.
Yeah, I mean, that's probablywhy that would be my take on why

(01:02:05):
.
Um, you and then let me justsay this, like I probably do
have undiagnosed ADHD.
They don't diagnose ADD anymore, and I used to say I'm ADD, I'm
not ADHD, but they don'tdiagnose that anymore.
There's like either hyperactiveADHD or non-hyperactive ADHD,
which doesn't fucking make senseto me.

(01:02:25):
But whatever You're more of theADHD, I feel like it works for
you a little bit more than itdoes for me.
Yeah, I can get into my rabbitholes and I stay in them.
Yeah, I don't need help stayingin them.
Right, you probably do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Well, it's just not how I learn, learn.
Yeah, I find it to beincredibly boring even when it's
something that you'refascinated with no, but it's
just like I like learningthrough, like living and talking
and sitting is just a strugglefor me anyways, that might be
why you love of reality tv somuch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Why?
Because it's like fun to watchthe psychology, yeah, play out
in real time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
You're watching it like people watch hamilton and
learn about the history yeah, ohmy god, yeah, hence why I have
learned so much just fromtalking to you than from reading
any book about psychedelics.
Ah yeah, that makes a lot ofsense.
It makes a lot of sense.
I get very distracted byoutside things.
I'm like, oh, a squirrel.

(01:03:33):
Oh, look at that, it's a bug onthe wall.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
So I have a really bad habit of starting books and
not finishing them, depending onhow heavy they are and how easy
they are to read, like I willput it down and then I'll be
like, okay, that's, that's a lotof information to process and
absorb, and I'll be like I'llcome back to it and then I
forget, and then I go move on toanother book and I'm like

(01:03:57):
that's a lot to absorb and I doabsorb this information, but
it's just a lot.
So this is a really good book.
Islet Waldman a really good day.
How microdosing made a megadifference in my mood, my
marriage and my life.
Um, I started this book andnever finished it, but she talks
about her experience as a mommicrodosing LSD.
So this is like probably a gamechanger book.

(01:04:19):
She actually brings up um BillWilson and AA in this book too,
so it's actually a really,really good.
Um, this is a really good bookIf anybody's interested in
microdosing LSD.
As far as sourcing, I don't knowwhat to tell you.
That's a hard one.

(01:04:39):
Good luck.
Yeah, find the weirdest personyou know, so us locally.
Find the weirdest person youknow, so us locally.
Find the weirdest person youknow in your area.
Um, another book that I wasgoing to talk about is a book
that timothy leary, ralphmetzner and richard alpert wrote

(01:05:00):
.
Those are like the harvard, theharvard group, the intellectual
group.
They wrote the PsychedelicExperience.
It's a manual based on theTibetan Book of the Dead.
This is a good one and AcidDreams the Complete Social
History of LSD, the CIA, the 60sand beyond.

(01:05:21):
This book is fuckingfascinating too, and this is
another one that I started.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
And didn't finish.
Yeah, is your the story of yourlife?
I'm a manifester, I know that'swhat I do.
That's why it's the story ofyour life.
It's literally what I do, okay.
So, going back, yeah, yourpersonal experiences with lsd.
So obviously there has been onetime where you took two tabs
and well, let me start with thefirst one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
First, my first lsd experience came like probably
two months after my first heroicmushroom journey.
Oh shit, because once thathappened and correct me if I'm
wrong I feel like a lot ofpeople get like this once they
have this experience.
Maybe some don't, but like,maybe it's the three, five in me

(01:06:07):
, the experimenter, who's likeonce that happened, I was like,
oh my God, what else is there?
Like I swear to God that firstyear, my first mushroom
experience was June of 2020.
And before the end of 2020, Ihad done MDMA, lsd, like I was
like on one.

(01:06:28):
I was like I'm going to do this, I'm going to do, and it was
also during COVID.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
So I'm like what else ?

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
am I going to do?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Well, maybe not.
I was like, maybe I did.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
No, you kind of did in your own way yeah.
Like you've experimented withthings that I haven't.
Yes, I have, yes, you have.
So you know there's.
There's this like somethingthat happens when you rewire
your brain with a psychedelic,where you're like what else is

(01:06:57):
there, what else can I learn,what else can I experience?
So, yeah, within two months Iwas like I want to do acid.
Who's down, who's doing thiswith me?
And so I acquired a group ofgirlfriends.
I could probably say Sarah'sname, like I feel like she's

(01:07:17):
talked about it before Her and I, like we're best friends.
We got a little group togetherI don't want to say the other
people's names and I was all in.
I was like, okay, now, how do Ido this safely?
We're going to go to a cabin inthe woods.
Do we need a trip sitter?
And I'd also, at the time, beenwatching working moms.
Did you ever watch that?
It's like a show on Netflix,it's hilarious.

(01:07:40):
But there was an episode wherethey all did acid in the woods
and they are like lost and theyget arrested.
And I'm like every movie youever see where somebody is on a
psychedelic, something bad isusually happening.
Yeah, they like vilify it.
Yeah.
So I was like, well, we mightget lost.

(01:08:00):
Like so we need it.
We need a trip sitter to bewith us.
We might jump out of a window,we might like literally from the
sixties it's going to make usgo crazy.
And I think also like Sarah wasjust like doesn't that fuck with
your like spinal fluid?
And I was like no, and she,like was like, oh, okay, trusted

(01:08:23):
me immediately because she knewthat I had done my prior
research.
I was like, no, actually, thisis what happens.
She was like, oh, okay, so shejust went along with me, and I
love when people trust me likethat.
Okay, cool, none of you all areJason Like.
Jason is like a skeptic throughand through, maybe not so much.
Now he's gotten to a pointwhere he trusts me.

(01:08:44):
But like, we'll get to thatpart in a second.
Um, so yeah, we get this grouptogether.
We're in a cabin in beria,kentucky.
When I say it wasn't a cabin,it was a fucking tree house.
There was an outhouse.
There was no electricity no,thank you.
No running water.
We had to use the bathroom inan outhouse.
I'm out.
It was probably 95 degrees.

(01:09:05):
Why did you guys do that?
We just want to be in nature,man.
Um, I would be so stressed andneeding a shower and we also,
like we did have a trip sitter,but the, the girl that I was
like talking to about doing LSD,was just like you guys aren't
going to need a trip sitter.
Like I'm going to give you anextra dose because she's
probably going to want to do itwhen she sees you guys aren't

(01:09:26):
going to need a trip sitter.
Like I'm going to give you anextra dose because she's
probably going to want to do itwhen she sees you guys on it.
And so we had an extra dosejust in case.
She never did so she ended upremaining the trip sitter,
although, like the next morningwe were like we didn't, we
didn't really need her, althoughI will say, if something had
happened, like an accident hadhappened, like if one of us like
fell down and twisted our ankleor broke our leg or something

(01:09:48):
happened, it was very comfortingknowing that someone there was
sober enough to drive us.
Cause we were in the middle ofnowhere we're in Berea, kentucky
, bfe and no electricity, nocell service like just in case
it was nice to have someone youknow, but we didn't need her as
much as we thought we would.
We were like, oh, this isnothing like the TV show, like

(01:10:09):
we're very aware of what we'redoing.
And that was the thing too.
Like the next day she was liketelling us like oh my God, and
you were doing this and you weredoing this, and we're like we
know, like we weren't likeblackout drunk, we were there.
Like know, like we weren't likeblackout drunk, we were there,
like we know it, like weremember every detail of it.

(01:10:29):
It was so fucking cool, like wewere just kids playing, like so
what like were there visuals?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
what was like?

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
yeah being outside like the visuals were very
similar to when you're doingmushrooms, like colors are more
vibrant.
Like you know, you're staringat the bark on a tree and it
looks like it's moving a littlebit.
Like it wasn't likehallucinations.
Like you know, you're staringat the bark on a tree and it
looks like it's moving a littlebit.
Like it wasn't likehallucinations, like you would
like see something that wasn'tthere.
Right.
In a way, it was like you hadaccess to this other dimension

(01:10:59):
that's always there, that youdon't get to see with your own
eyes.
Oh, that's kind of what it feltlike, and it also felt like
everything we were seeing waslike seeing it for the first
time and that's why it felt verychildlike.
Yeah, there was a chicken onthe property and Sarah, I think,

(01:11:20):
at one point, was like oh myGod, it's a chicken, and we were
like oh my God, look at thechicken.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Like people would have like been, like those girls
okay, yeah, it's a chicken, weget it right, right, but we were
like, look at it, how cute I'msurprised sarah, knowing sarah
and her love of animals, didn'tlike run to go like did?

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
we had pictures of her like the chicken that's
literally what she was doing wasjust like wanting the chicken
to come to her.
It was just.
It was such a fun time and sucha memorable experience.
We came back then and the nextday I was like I want to do that
with somebody else, like I wantto, I'm going to facilitate

(01:12:07):
that with another group offriends, and I did several.
Several months later, I hadanother group of friends and I
was like all right, we're doingLSD this weekend.
And then my third time doing itwas just last summer with Jason,
because I am one of those likeI want my husband to experience
these things too, because I'mlike it's not what you thought

(01:12:30):
it was, it's so much more.
Um.
So finally, we had theopportunity to do it together,
and we're at a cabin in RedRiver Gorge, and this is where I
went wrong.
And it was just you two, no,it's four, was four of us.
The other couple there didmushrooms, okay, and it's funny,
though, because one of the guythat was with us was like oh,

(01:12:53):
I've never done acid, or I'venever done LSD, but I've done
acid once and I'm like it's thesame thing.
I should have said that at thebeginning.
Like LSD, slash acid same thing.
I'm like it's the same thing,bro, anyway.
Uh.
So yeah, we did a hike beforeand I'm just like looking at my
like wrist, like I'm like dude,like if we don't do this soon,

(01:13:16):
we're gonna be up all night.
Like this is like a 14 hourtrip and when you get to the end
of it you want nothing morethan to sleep and you can't
sleep.
So you have to be prepared todo a full 14 hour trip with this
or you're going to be hurting.
So we get back from the hikeand it's like three o'clock and

(01:13:38):
I'm like fuck and I say that tomy husband I'm just like dude,
we should have done this at like10 o'clock this morning, not
like three o'clock.
Three o'clock, we're going tobe up to like 6am.
And he's like I think youunderestimate how tired I am and
how easily I can fall asleepand I'm like I think you're
underestimating the drug andwhat I am telling you from

(01:13:59):
personal experience you are notgoing to be able to go to sleep.
We were up till three or till 6AM, like literally up till the
sun came up.
But rewind it a little bit.
We took the acid, um.
The other two took mushroomsand we were just having fun, um,
but about an hour and a half in, he's like I don't feel

(01:14:21):
anything and I was like I don'treally feel it either.
And he was like let's go doanother one.
And I was like I don't think weshould do that, because rule
number one and this is with likegummies, mushrooms, anything,
the minute you say you don'tfeel it and you take another one
, you're going to it's going tohit.
And I went against my betterjudgment because he was just

(01:14:44):
like well, I'm taking anotherone anyway, because maybe this
one went bad, maybe it doesn'twork anymore.
Oh my God, fine.
Like, if you're going to do it,I'm going to do it too.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Like YOLO, let's do it, you are.
So ride or die.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
It turned out fine, but it could have been worse.
So we both took another tab andliterally within a few minutes
we feel the first one and I'mlike, oh fuck, like in another
two hours we're going to be likeso fucked up, like this is

(01:15:19):
going to be crazy.
But what's interesting now, inthe moment I really felt like
there's no way nobody would knowI'm on acid, really felt like
there's no way nobody would knowI'm on acid.
But the fact that, likeliterally weeks later, the girl
was like, oh yeah, how did?
How?
Were you guys on LSD?
Didn't you guys do that?
After we went to bed?
And I'm like we were on it thewhole time.
We were with you and hanging out, the song Creep came on by

(01:15:41):
Radiohead and I'm like sobbing.
I'm like you've got to changethis song.
They're like why, what's goingon?
I'm like just change the song.
And in the moment I felt likewhat he was feeling writing that
song, as he was writing it,just feeling like he didn't fit
in.
He was a loser, like um, likejust I was like I can't.

(01:16:04):
I can't feel this.
I need to feel happy right now.
Yeah, please change the song.
So that was my like creep story,I don't know.
Oh okay, okay, it turned outokay in the end Like we were in
a controlled environment.
We were in a cabin by ourselves, but towards the end it did get
a little dark.
There were like, what do youmean by dark?

(01:16:25):
Towards the end it did get alittle dark.
They were like what do you meanby dark?
Um, when it's like one or twoo'clock in the morning and it's
like dark and quiet, you juststart getting these like weird
creepy, like a murderer couldcome in right now.
Uh, yeah, and fuck with us andI you know.
Just stupid shit like that.

(01:16:46):
Where, like, if I just keptwatching and thinking happy
thoughts, like we were watchingum bonnaroo live, that was
really cool.
So I'm like, even though I'venever done it at a festival,
like I watched a festival on it,that was really cool, like it
felt like I was there.
Um should I say the other thingthat happened?

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
I was going to bring that up.
Please say it.
I was literally going to belike oh wait, there was
something I want to say, but Idon't.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
okay, I'll get to that in a second, One of the
things that got dark like thereare like big skylight windows in
our bathroom and in our bedroom, which during the day is not
scary at all.
But at night, like I couldn'teven go to the bathroom in our
bathroom because I'm like whatif somebody is watching me?
Which the next morning when wewoke up, I was like there was no

(01:17:35):
way they could have.
Like that window was so fuckinghigh up they would have had to
like climb up on our roof andlike that wouldn't like.
That's how it fucks with yourhead a little bit.
So it is important to like have.
Do it early, Do it early.
I wish it wouldn't have beenthree o'clock in the morning
when I'm trying to go to sleepand I can't.
We're also like we sawheadlights driving up the gravel

(01:17:56):
like at 3 am.
We're like why the fuck arethey driving you know?
Just shit like that.
Anyway, we have sex on acid.
It's the coolest fucking thingthat has ever happened to me.
Ever, ever, no, probably notever.
It's up there, tmi.

(01:18:16):
But when he finished it feltlike fireworks and rainbows went
through my body and out of myhead.
And even he was like did youfeel that?
And I was like I did, that'swhat.

(01:18:38):
And I told him I was like thisis what it felt like.
And he was like that's what itfelt like.
For me, it was like fucking,like rainbows and unicorns, like
just going through my body andlike exploding out of my head.
That's what it felt like.
It was the coolest fuckingthing I've ever.
It was up there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
I'm so happy that you had the guts to share that,
because I've just been thinkingabout that the whole time and
I'm like there's no way she'sgoing to share that Her vanilla
ass.
There's no way.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Can I?
This is like the healing thingthat came out of it, because,
again, I've said I've never,like, had a healing experience,
although I want to take thatback because I feel like they've
all been healing, they justhaven't been like the ceremonial
, spiritual type of experience.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
And that's kind of what I wanted to say is like,
yeah, they were, they wereagainst each other because they
were like no, it's this way.
No, it's this way.
Like we've done the heroicjourneys, we've done an
ayahuasca ceremony, we've alsogone to a concert.
All of them have been healingbecause it's been like
connection with myself,connection with other people,

(01:19:49):
connection with the music,connection where I'm at, like
laughter and fun and andhappiness and so healing.
Yes, and.
And so it goes back to likesome of the hate that we get
Like.
Why does this always have to beso serious and why does this
like only you like for you to bea psychedelic or psycho or not.

(01:20:13):
You have to look a certain wayor live a certain way, or be a
certain way.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
You can't be doing it for fun and you have to be
serious, right, right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
This is only about healing, or to the other people
who we know who only do itrecreationally.
And or to the other people whowe know who only do it
recreationally.
And I'm like man, like there'sa lot of stuff you could work
through if you actually did itwith the intention of like,
wanting to like work throughsome trauma and heal some stuff.
Like for me, I'm like there canbe balance with all of it and

(01:20:47):
there's, and like I would loveto see some more diversity in
the psychedelic space, with thepeople who use it.
I would love to have somesuburban housewife, while also
having someone who's indigenous.
Well, like all of it.
So then we can all work onconnecting with each other.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
But isn't that one of the things that, like, we get
out of psychedelics is likelearning that there is this
balance to everything and youcan't have dark without light
and you can't have happy withoutsad?
Like everybody is like I justwant to be happy and I'm like,
ok, but you also have to be sad,right, like you can't bypass
this part of it.
Right, like there's like apendulum and there's somewhere

(01:21:23):
in the middle where you have toexperience both sides of
everything, and that's where thehealing lies, is like there is
serious, but there's also somuch fun in this.
Um, I feel like there wassomething I was going to say to
that.
Oh, the the healing thing thatcame out of it for me.
I'm going to tell myself alittle bit, and I don't know if

(01:21:44):
I've spoke about this before inan episode.
Um, you know, most of thesepsychedelics are like heart
openers and mind openers andthey really like, they really
make you question the things youthought before or the way that
you perceive things before you.
You really come out of them andyou have this like different

(01:22:07):
perspective and you're like, oh,maybe that's why this person
did this and oh, I understandthat now you know, like there's
that to it, but there's also forme personally.
Anytime that I've donesomething like this with my
husband and with friends, I comeout of it feeling more
connected to these people than Idid before.

(01:22:27):
There's healing that happensthere.
So the next morning we'redriving home.
I had been.
And actually, now that I thinkabout this, this wasn't last
year, this was two years ago Ihad been saving money for a
divorce.
Have I told you this?
I think so.
Yeah, I don't think we'vetalked about it on here.

(01:22:49):
And it was before my husbandgot sober.
I started putting money aside.
I started sending money to myaunt, um, to keep for me to
prepare for getting a divorce.
When he got sober and whendivorce came off the table, I
had a lot of money saved up andI was like, fuck, what am I
going to do with this?
How am I going to tell himabout this?

(01:23:11):
And my aunt said at one point Ihad someone tell me one time
like you can repair but also beprepared.
Like you can work on repairingthe marriage but also be
prepared just in case thatdoesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
Because a lot of people who are in AA there's a
high divorce rate.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
right, there's a very high divorce rate.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
A lot of people don't make it out of that first year
together, which that's anothertopic of not you, but something
that I've noticed of the peoplewho are getting sober, the
partner who wanted them to getsober does not handle.
They can't handle them gettingsober.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
It's a thing I say this all the time Like I don't
they almost would have ratherthem stayed.
Well, what I think happens isthey they just want you to quit
drinking.
They don't realize that a lotof your issues didn't just come
from alcohol.
They came from, like, thealcoholic mentality and the
mindset and the coping skillsand the lack of coping skills

(01:24:14):
healthy coping skills and likethe inability to sit with your
feelings and the inability tohold space for other people's
feelings, Like there's a lot ofmoving parts in supporting
someone who's trying to getsober.
I think for a long time I wasjust like I just want you to be
able to handle your liquor.
And then, in his sobriety, Irealized like, oh my God, this

(01:24:36):
removed a negative coping skillbut also has completely
transformed the way wecommunicate and our relationship
.
And I can see how some peoplemay not be prepared for that,
because a lot of people justthink the problem is the other
person getting sober.
They're the ones with thedrinking problem.

(01:24:57):
Right, I had to change too.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
I was just going to say that I feel like if your
partner is healing like, youhave to heal too, because
there's a reason why you werewith somebody.
There is struggled with that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
No way we would have survived if I hadn't already
been on a healing journey forthe last year.
There's no way he got sober ayear after my first mushroom
journey and and after that wasvery, very difficult.
And we didn't have the podcastthen.
So I'm like there's no way Icould have.

(01:25:33):
I was surviving that year.
I really was.
So I'm happy that when westarted it like we were past
that first year, yeah, where wasI going with that?
What was I saying?
The lesson, oh the lesson for me, so I had been saving money and
when I realized that divorcewas no longer an option and or

(01:25:54):
that it wasn't like on the tablethe way that it was before and
I will say this, like the firsttime I ever said I want a
divorce before he got sober, theway that he would fucking
gaslight me into thinking thatthere was no way I could, like
you can't afford to get adivorce.
Like okay, well, I'll keep thehouse and you're going to live
in a two bedroom apartment withthree kids, like it really

(01:26:16):
fucked with me.
So I felt like I had to startsaving money.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Well, that was abusive.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
Yeah, and he knows.
And later, well, I'll tell youabout the conversation we had in
the car, because it got to apoint where I was sitting on a
very large amount of money and Icalled my aunt and I was like I
don't know how to tell himabout this.
He's going to be so mad, andyou know how he is with money.
So I was like he's going to beso mad when he finds out I've
been hiding money.
Like I would like just takecash tips and like hide them a

(01:26:49):
little bit, you know, um, or doa service and not put it into
the system, but take the moneyon the side.
And I had some clients who likeknew that I was like saving for
a divorce and it was realfucked up, um.
but I was like he's going to beso mad.
And she was like, well, whydon't you use the money for
something for the two of you?
So that's how my Sedona tripgot paid for.

(01:27:09):
But so the next day, after wedid acid on the way home, I was
like I got to tell you somethingand I don't know how you're
going to take this.
But I feel like now is a goodtime to tell you I have a
divorce fund.
I have this much money and Idon't.

(01:27:31):
I didn't know how to tell you.
I've been keeping it from you,but I also haven't been putting
money into it for like the lastyear.
I've just been sitting on thisamount.
I didn't know what to do withit.
I didn't know how to bring itto you.
I didn't want you to be upsetwith me.
And he got real quiet for aminute and he was like okay,
like I'm really upset that youwere like putting money to the

(01:27:54):
side.
It feels very deceitful, but Iunderstand why you feel like you
had to do that and I'm sorrythat I made you feel that way
because I was, I was explainingto.
I was like you had me thinkingthat like I couldn't afford to
get a divorce and that I wasgoing to be the single mom who
had no money.
And he was just like Leah, youwould have gotten half of
everything, yeah, but Plus childsupport.

(01:28:16):
And I was like, well, now Iknow that, but in the moment of
me asking for a divorce, likeyou made me feel like that
wasn't a thing Right, divorcelike you made me feel like that
wasn't a thing right.
And he was like, well, yeah,because I didn't want you to
leave me.
So it was this like mind fuck.
Like he was made.
He was saying these thingsbecause he didn't really want me
to leave him.
But it kind of fucked with me alittle bit where I was like, oh

(01:28:37):
shit, he's right.
Like, and that's not fair.
I felt like tom sandoval andariana, where I'm like I
remember getting into fightswith him Like why would you get
the house?
I'm the mom I would get thekids.
Like you fucking live in anapartment.
Like I don't want to be likekicked out of my own house.
Right, because we're getting adivorce.
Like, why do I have to get outof the house?

(01:28:59):
He's like, because you couldn'tafford it.
Like you don't make as muchmoney as me and I'm like, but I
would, because you would begiving me half of all your money
and also child support, like Iwould have been able to afford
it you know, Right.
But yeah, it was just a totalmind fuck.
So that was the healing thingthat came after it.
I felt closer to him the nextday, I felt safe enough to tell

(01:29:20):
him about that and I recommended, I said, and I think we should
take some of this money and goto Sedona or do something with
the two of us just the two of usand that was like our first
ever adult trip was Sedona andthat's crazy to me too, that you
guys like never went on adulttrips.
Yeah, no, we did one and it gotfucked up with that.

(01:29:41):
We've talked about that onebefore.
That was before sobriety.
Yeah, the one trip we ever tookwithout kids was before he got
sober and it was horrible, worsttrip of my life, oh God, anyway
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
That's my LSD story.
That's crazy.
419.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
What a ride, and I also like me on the fact that
420 is the next day, like Not acoincidence at all, no, and all
of the connections to like theGrateful Dead and 419 and 420.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
And you know.
So now I'm going to listen tosome Grateful Dead songs.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I am going to listen to them Saturday and I'm going
to maybe eat an edible.
I love it.
Go a little high.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
I love that journey for you In celebration of 420.
I love that.
You should do it too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
Girl, I already knew you were.
You don't have to ask me.
Cannabis is not my drug, butI'll do it every now and then.
I've always said that Like itused to be, and now.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
I don't use it.
I've cut way, way, way back,but I still love it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
I will use it for like date nights or fun nights
with friends.
I just don't use it the waythat I used to to escape more
intentional with it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, it's for connection, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
Yes, yeah, okay, you got anything else to add to that
?
No, that was wonderful.
I'm going to add these books to.
I think they already are on ourAmazon, but if you are really
interested in the microdosing, Iwould suggest a really good day
.
Um, if you want to dive intothe history of it.
Um, acid dreams is another goodone, and highly highly
recommend watching the sunshinemakers.

(01:31:10):
Such a good document.
What's that on Might be onAmazon.
Okay, I'll have to look.
Um, but yeah, it's a.
It's a fascinating story, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
Okay, awesome, that's all I got Great job.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Leah, happy bicycle day everybody.
We hope you have a great daycelebrating.
Don't do acid unless you'retrying to trip for like 16.
Oh, I do want to say this thereason that they are not using
LSD and acid and slash acid inthe clinical trials today is
because it's such a long trip,like 12 to 14 hours that would

(01:31:44):
take twice the staff, twice thehours, twice the money, like to
have someone sitting withsomeone for that long and
observing, like in the clinicaltrials.
But I do think that, like withall of these other psychedelics
kind of being pushed through theFDA approval process, lsd will
kind of be on that and there'ssomething really fucked up to be

(01:32:07):
said about the fact that, likethese substances help us learn
more about ourselves and help usto become more critical
thinkers.
And there is a reason I'm justsaying there's a reason they
don't want us to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Yep, so think about that for a second.
Do the math.
Do the math on that?

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
Of course they don't want us to do it?
Yep.
So think about that for asecond.
Do the math.
Do the math on that.
Of course, they don't want themto be illegal, but exploring
your own mind should not beillegal.
That blows my mind every time.
The fact that, like I, couldhave something that's
potentially healing and helpfuland beneficial to all of mankind
is illegal.
It's fucked up, yep, okay.

(01:32:46):
That's fucked up, yep, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
That's all.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
I got All right.
Stay open, be curious, we'llsee you on the other side.
Bye.

All Episodes

79 | Bicycle Day and the History of L$D

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Good Hang with Amy Poehler

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}79 | Bicycle Day and the History of L$D