85 | Moms on Mushrooms (with Tracey Tee) - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, um, let's do this.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let's get into it.
Tracy, thank you so much forcoming on Um.
You are the creator of moms onmushrooms and I just I want to,
so I started.
I think my first large umjourney with mushrooms was in
2022, 22.

(00:23):
Yeah, Okay, so it's been twoyears now and you are one of the
first people who I startedfollowing.
Who is another like psychonautmom in this space.
So, first and foremost, I justwant to thank you for being so
open and vulnerable and sharingyour story, because it's helped

(00:44):
us to then share our stories aswell.
So just want to say that, butthank you for being here, Thank
you.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
I said thank you, Like you said that to me.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
I thank the medicine and yeah, that's amazing.
I love hearing that.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah.
So I guess my first question islike how did you get started in
this space, Like what broughtyou in this space?

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, well, it wasn't because I wanted to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I can tell you how it starts.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Sounds like a terrible idea to do this, like
no, no, no, um.
So I was very much thereluctant I you know it's funny
to be woo, I'll just start outbeing very well, but I've like a
lot of Chiron in my chart, soI'm I'm very like, I identify
deeply with the wounded healerand, um, so I didn't ever think

(01:42):
that this was in my path and Ihad no choice and so I came here
.
Because I came here by way of alive comedy show, a live
entertainment business that Ihad for almost a decade with my
best friend and business partnerthat we lost during COVID.
And in that grief, along witheverything else, with the

(02:02):
lockdowns and all theridiculousness of the world, I
found myself in the middle of avery deep spiritual journey
being called to plant medicineand being and wondering, like I
don't think that this is for me,like how the heck am I going to
do that?
I can't, I'm not going to go tothe Amazon rainforest, I can't
just take two weeks and go toBali and just study.

(02:24):
Like those things aren'trealistic and I've never done
drugs.
So, like you know, I didn'tknow why I was calling this.
So I studied psilocybin,specifically in ayahuasca, for a
long time.
Like I remember, I went in 2018and like went by myself to go
watch Paul Stamets speak.

(02:46):
It was me, and I've alwaysloved mushrooms, like all kinds
of mushrooms, and so, as I lookback, I see that the like, the
signs were kind of guiding me tothis moment and I finally
started microdosing.
Well, actually, then I went ona camping trip with my best
friend and business partner.
She called me in the summer andshe was like a bunch of us are

(03:07):
going to go to this lake inBoulder and go camping.
It's all moms, women, andyou're going to put on your big
girl pants and you're going todo some shrooms.
And I was like, okay, I lovethat.
So much.
Yeah, it was amazing, and sowhen I was driving up there, I
was like, if this is theexperience that I said to be, it

(03:27):
may be a shit for me.
And it absolutely was.
It was like the best night weleft.
I saw like every symbol everwritten.
I saw the grid over the earth.
I reaffirmed my connection withGod.
I felt like all the thingshappened.
Just, I don't even know howmuch.
I took like okay, just like atesome shrooms, and we like

(03:47):
chased it with Skittles, liketotally and um and uh, but I,
just I was like this is it, likethis is it, and just.
And then we camped and mygirlfriend and I were in her
camper and I just remember goingto bed that night and we just
were like just in, like in suchdeep gratitude not intentionally

(04:10):
, just like was pouring out ofus.
We just talked about how muchwe loved our family and how
grateful we are for our husbandsand for each other.
And I just remember, like goingto sleep, smiling and waking up
with my mouth hurting and I wasjust like what was that?
And um, and so that was I washooked.
And I remember calling mymother on the way back home, the

(04:31):
like last person on the planetwho I would have thought I would
have called like very neverdone drugs, and I was like, mom,
this just happened and thischanged my life and I had also
just some backstory.
I have a history.
I've had a history of stagefour endometriosis since I was
like 25 years old, um, I've hada billion surgeries, um, and

(04:53):
finally culminated in having tohave a full hysterectomy when I
was 41, like all my parts,everything taken cervix,
fallopian tubes, uterus, ov,ovaries, all I got nothing.
And in that and it was becauseI was like medically compromised
at that point with all theadhesions, but my functional

(05:14):
medicine doctor actually wisely,I believe put me on Welbutrin
to transition into, because whenyou get everything taken out
for a full hysterectomy, you gointo surgical menopause.
So I literally walked a normalhealthy 41-year-old and woke up
the next day and flashed it assoon as it happened.
So I had instant menopause andit was debilitating and the

(05:38):
Welbutrin really helped what I'msure would have been insane
mood swings, and so I was supergrateful to be on it.
But I was like when do I getoff?
What am I like without it?
What's going to happen?
And so after that journey,microdosing really just made a
lot of sense and I actuallytalked to her about it and she
was like I think you should doit, I just can't tell you
anything else.
And so I started and I justfelt like my life just go like

(06:05):
this.
And after working with it forquite a while almost a full year
, and I microdosed five days ontwo days off, religiously, like
for nine months straight, and Ijust felt healing, healing,
navigating, the loss of ourbusiness, navigating all of the
things with continued COVID.

(06:26):
I felt like things weren'tsticking to me.
They were just kind of comingup and out.
And then, almost a year later,almost to the day, my family, my
daughter, our niece, who is 18,and my husband, are driving
outside Aspen, colorado, and at11am on a Monday morning we got
hit by a drug driver and gotsideswiped.

(06:49):
We flew into a like a barrier,flew 30 feet in a ditch and
landed in a ditch in themountains and had to like pull
our kids out.
I was like kicking the doors.
I don't know.
I honestly don't know how wesurvived.
Like I felt when we were flying.
I felt hands go on the car andjust like sit us down.
And even the EMTs, when theyarrived, they were like we don't

(07:13):
know how you guys are walking,um, and we were all really
injured, did walk away and youknow the the, the ongoing
recovery from that.
I mean I was bruised from headto toe, like black and blue,
lying in bed.
I I even even 48 hours later Icould feel it coming up and out

(07:35):
and I knew it and I think, likeas we progress through our
healing, navigating the trauma,this happened to my daughter and
my.
My daughter walked out and hadblack and blue all in her
stomach from the, from theseatbelt, and like collapsed in
the grass and just you know whathappened to her.
I just was feeling like itwasn't sticking to me and, um,

(07:59):
so it was like this constantconfirmation that this medicine
was like working in real timeand I was seeing it happen.
And then, because of my daughterand my family and the trauma, I
was like looking for atherapist, but good luck finding
a child psychologist in 2021.
Like people wouldn't even callme back, like they won't even
answer the phone, oh my God.
And so I was desperate to findsomeone for her to talk to and,

(08:24):
through a myriad of like bizarrecircumstances, was led to this
woman who was really hard to getahold of.
She doesn't answer the phonevery much, but she works with
kids and she's a shaman, and mydaughter worked with her one
time, just like talk therapy,and walked out and was like I'm
good, I got it, I get it, I'mreleased.
It was amazing.

(08:45):
I went good, I got it, I get it, I'm released.
It was amazing.
I went in and spoke with her,we talked about the accident for
about 20 minutes and then therest was about plant medicine
and different things, and twomonths later I was on the floor
with three and a half grams ofpenis envy down my throat and
that was the beginning of Momson Mushrooms.
That was the beginning of Momson Mushrooms Because after that

(09:09):
I was shown that this medicineis for not only for me, but for
mothers specifically, and thatit is time to bring us together,
like through this medicine andafterwards during integration.
I was just meditating and Momson Mushrooms MOM just sort of
like landed in my head and Ishut up and I was like, well,
that's genius.
I mean, certainly someone's done.

(09:31):
It wasn't me, it was not me.
And so I like ran to thecomputer and looked for the URL
and it was there and I was justlike shut up and um, and it took
a lot of prayer and a lot ofcrying and a lot of saying no,
and then it just was so obviousthat and then I really saw the
path of like what we were doingwith our comedy show, because

(09:51):
our comedy show was for mothersand bringing moms together to
laugh about the things we havein common, and, having heard
mother stories and the evolutionof motherhood in this modern
age for the last 10 years, Ilike it, like I really know what
mothers are struggling with,because I was there, I was
listening to stories and I wasjust sort of shown that what we
were doing with comedy it's timenow to make it get serious and

(10:15):
actually start talking.
And this medicine is the conduit, it's the web to bring us back
together to create thatcommunity we're missing, to
create the vulnerability that wedon't know how to access.
Together to create thatcommunity we're missing.
To create the vulnerabilitythat we don't know how to access
to actually tap into truehappiness.
That we have to learn.
We have to learn that, and thisis the way.
And so I just started and juststarted, mom.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
The fact that it's like I remember when we found
you too, or when I, when wefound you, I was like that is
genius, m O, m, s, like moms onmushrooms, like why didn't I
fucking think of that?
It's one of those like ahamoments.
Um, I'm going to edit this partout, but I'm going to say is
there someone like hammering inyour?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
room.
Is it bad?
It's.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
We're getting a new roof, oh okay, I just wanted to
make sure.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I was like either somebody's playing basketball
next door.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I was just on a call and I was testing it to see if
they could hear it and it gotlike really loud.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Now they stopped but yeah, they stopped.
Is it really bad In?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
moments it is, and then can you edit that out.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
I don't know can try okay.
Okay, I can try with the soundengineer or anything me.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Okay, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
It's okay, you didn't hear it there's a, there's an
app that I can run it through.
That'll hopefully okay get itout, it's some it comes and goes
.
It's weird.
So now that it's not here just,they just stopped yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
It was like so loud when I was talking and you had.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
you were saying a lot of great stuff.
I'm like shut up, I was likewho is?

Speaker 3 (11:52):
that makes a lot of sense.
Um, okay, so that's how momscame about, which is wild and
you talked about like thewounded healer.
It's so funny because I thinkso many people and maybe not
anymore but like 2020 was likethe catalyst for a lot of people
and that was the year like Imet a shaman and she said I was
a healer.
And I was like what the fuck?
Like I'm so fucking broken,like what does that even mean?

(12:15):
I'm so broken.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right Like how am.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
I supposed to heal people?
Like what does that even mean?
And then mushrooms happened inJune and then it was like after
that, like that was it soundslike we're on the same
trajectory.
Like holy shit, why is no onetalking about this?
This is like what we need, andI also think the fact that, like

(12:38):
your group, is specificallygeared and catered towards
mothers is huge, because I thinkI think I've said this in an
episode before but a lot ofwomen come to me and they're
like my husband's this and myhusband's that and my husband's
this and he needs to domushrooms.
And I'm like or you do it first,like or cause.

(13:00):
That's how it started in myfamily.
Like, my husband was analcoholic and an addict and I
did the journey first and Istarted healing first and I was
able to hold space for him whenhe started.
And I think moms, in that way,women, are so much more powerful
than we were taught and we arethe ones who are able to start

(13:24):
this healing journey and holdspace for other people when they
are, and I think that's whyit's important that it's like
well, this is why it's for moms,this is why it's for women,
this is why and now that yousaid that, like I was the one
who started it in my family, andthen, a year later, my partner
saw the changes over the courseof a year and then he decided to

(13:47):
do it too, so that's a reallygood point.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, which is you know gosh.
I mean there's so much there.
Like I feel like it's almostcliche that I'm in that, like I
almost call it like graduateclass of 2020.
Like those of us who just werelike bing everything's different
, and we were both.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
we owned businesses as well and closed our
businesses and went through likea really rough time during
COVID.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, and then real rough times.
Yeah, had nothing to do withCOVID, but everything to do with
whatever the fuck that was.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
We're like you guys are still talking about COVID,
Like my life is falling apart.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I was like the least, my, my, my least fear is having
a fever right now Um yeah, so I, um, no, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
And then and then it really just goes to show like
Gandhi was right, like be thechange, you know, and and lead
by example is something I comeback to, like when I feel
triggered, or what if I'mfrustrated that someone isn't
getting me or getting thismedicine or is hesitant.
I come back to like when I feeltriggered or if I'm frustrated
that someone isn't getting me orgetting this medicine or is
hesitant.
I'm just like all I have to dois walk the walk.
All I have to do is show up inthe space and like with the
values that I have like devotedmyself to, and if you have eyes

(14:58):
to see and ears to hear, youwill, and if you don't, that's
not.
We're in, our paths weren'tsupposed to cross and it it
makes things like very easy andlike really disappointing and
difficult at the same time,because you get you a lot
doesn't work out in your favorwhen you, when you show up like
that, but it for me, it justtook the pressure off having to

(15:20):
just scream from a mountaintopand just especially in my
personal life and you know thesame thing, like my husband
ended up doing a journey, youknow he he microdosed and he
gets it and he supports it andum, but I don't have to, I don't
have to make people change.
This is not my, it's not thepoint.
You just gotta, you just gottado it.
You just gotta do your thing,yeah, be the change.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, and it kind of leads me to my next point, which
is you're doing the Lord's workright now, because we have seen
you on Dr Phil, we've seen youon Fox news, we've seen you on,
um, what good morning America.
So many interviews and I lovethat you are the one who's like

(16:02):
really getting out there andtalking about it.
But but it's, it's frustratingto watch the statements that
people make or the questionsthat people ask you in those
interviews.
Like you know, do you thinkyou're setting a good example
for your daughter?
Like is, are you a good mom?
Or um, one woman is like well,what if you get addicted?
Yeah, what if you get addicted?

(16:23):
Are you, are you a good mom?
Or um, one woman is like, well,what if you get addicted?
Yeah, what if you get addicted?
Are you?
Did you microdose today beforecoming on this interview?
So, like the assumption thatyou're like fucked up, or just
people who really don't know orunderstand the medicine,
stereotyping you or labeling you, or making assumptions,

(16:43):
especially showing up andtalking about this as a mother,
there's, there's a lot ofstigmas to break.
How do you handle that?
Because for me, I'd be likeshut up, shut the fuck up, watch
your mouth.
You don't even know, right,yeah, and you, you do.
You handle it with suchelegance and grace and and the
conversation does need to be had.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
And yeah, thank you, I appreciate that.
I um I, you know, with all mywounded healer, I'm also a
triple air.
I don't know why I'm talkingabout my chart, so much.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
I'm also a triple.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Aries.
So you know, reactive, I am awarrior.
You know a Ram and I have livedthat energy my whole life.
And, um, you know a Ram and Ihave lived that energy my whole
life.
And, um, you know, injustice oror non-truths, like are
something that just can set meoff, but I think, so I all that
to say is thank you.
And also it's the shrooms,shrooms talking like we

(17:41):
literally have a sticker at mom.
This is thanks.
It's the shrooms, because I sayit so much and it's, you know,
it's pithy and it's not totallytrue.
I do a lot of work, but likeit's the shrooms and, and what I
have have been shown again islike my, when my heart just
cracked open, I was just Iunderstood what grace and

(18:02):
compassion like really means.
And so every interview and I'venever had a publicist, you know
I all of that happenednaturally, and I think it was
just a matter of like, rightplace, right time and whatever.
That's my Dharmic path.
I guess it's not anything thatI wanted, but I I I never really
got triggered because beforeevery single interview I just I

(18:24):
would tell the people I wasworking with like thank you for
having me, like, thank you forat least letting the story be
told, and I had to just trustthat, no matter how it went and
it was a little hard on Dr Phil,like I have to say.
I was a little concerned afterwe finished that taping, but and
I'll tell you a funny storyabout that but no matter how it
goes, I know in my heart,because this is what's happening

(18:47):
to women, especially right now,in this moment those with ears
to hear, they will read, theywill see it, they will see me
talking and no matter how it'spresented, they'll get it.
And that's the only mom I'mtalking to.
I don't need to convince hatersI can't.

(19:08):
And I don't need to convincehaters I can't.
And psychedelics aren't rightfor everyone.
And I don't need to convincethose people that they're wrong
because they're on their ownpath.
So all I need to do is talk tothe mom who is at her wits end,
who has tried everything, whosesoul is screaming that there's
something better out there, thatshe knows like deep in her DNA
that this isn't the way.
That's the mom I talked to, andso if you're going to be like a

(19:31):
arrogant news host that'smisinformed and is looking for a
clickbait, like I'll take it,it just doesn't bother me,
because I'm just grateful to beable to share the story yeah.
And to the point of Dr Philreally quick.
The you know.
We left and that was kind oflike a complete.
I was very I did not know thatthe show wasn't presented that

(19:53):
way, that it was going to justbe about me and being a bad
mother, like that's.
I was supposed to just come onand be a voice about microdosing
on a psychedelic panel and itturned.
It was like completelyblindsided and so when I left I

(20:14):
was like what my life is over,Went to the airport like
literally got in a car and drovestraight to the airport to go
back to Denver.
It was just so fast.
There was no time to think Iwas at the airport eating.
I hadn't eaten all day.
They gave us no food.
I was there at 5am, so it waslike 4 PM.
At that point I was likegorging a hamburger and,
admittedly, a very large glassof wine, because I was just so
shaken.
And, um, I looked at my phoneand two women in the audience

(20:38):
had already found me and werelike thank you, we had no idea
what this was about.
This is everything.
You changed my life.
I've actually been working withmicrodosing but was too afraid
to talk about it and they youdidn't deserve what you got and
I was like done, we're done,it's already worth it.
I would go back again.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
So Holy shit, I love.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
I love that perspective because even you
know I the the whole like oh uh,drugs kill 120,000, 120,000
people a year and you're likeokay but what drugs right?
Like that's and then again it's,it's, and then you're like you
know, you talk about alcohol andand like I felt I was like, oh

(21:18):
my God, I feel like she'sgetting like gas lit this whole
time.
So like to hear that you gottwo people from the audience is
huge and for us, you know, wewe've definitely gotten pushback
and and gotten hate and likeother moms who think like we're
just, you know, doing this andgetting fucked up and then like
hanging out with our kids andand so I love that like kind of

(21:39):
you're the, you're the voice ofall of us on that level.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, you're the voice too, it's.
It's not just me, I mean,you're, you're, you're showing
up and you're proving.
You're proving somethingdifferent.
You know and we have a.
You know, we have almost, wehave half of a gender.
We have half of a century ofmisinformation rammed down our
throats, culturally, at thefederal level, like from
presidents talking about thismedicine.

(22:04):
So there is decades and decadesof fear and misinformation
folded into everyone's reaction.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
So all we can do is just prove them wrong.
Right, that's all we can do.
And I think we were talkingabout this earlier, like with
the reason we said you're doingthe Lord's work, because we kind
of forget, like we have thiscommunity bubble of people who
get what we're saying, whobelieve in what we're doing, who
also do what we do, and that'sour audience, that's our
community.
But then you're going out hereand reminding us that not

(22:43):
everybody feels this way and noteverybody thinks this way, and
there's still so muchmisinformation out there that I
I tend to forget that, like mylittle bubble is not the norm.
So, yeah, we'd love to go upagainst it.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
People.
Another cultural thing I thinkwe're unlearning is people just
want to see moms miserable.
I don't think it's intentional.
I think we've just gottenreally used to the sad mom and
that's our stasis.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
It's just what we do.
It's who we are.
Yeah, you can take your pills.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
You can have your wine, playdates.
You can take your Valium, youcan drink your martini in the
middle of the afternoon.
We'll put chloroform over youwhile you birth your baby.
There's this history ofanesthetizing mothers and
keeping us at a level that'sjust shy, of actually stepping
into our power.
We're kept sober enough wherewe can raise the children and do

(23:44):
all the things, and it's fineto be a super mom and be skinny
and gorgeous andmulti-successful, and blah, blah
, blah.
But when you're truly empoweredwhich I believe is actual
happiness and the connection tospirit, when you tap into that,
they're like oh no, now you'rehigh, now you're messed up or

(24:04):
you're misguided, or you'vejoined a cult, all the things to
just keep us back down.
And so that doesn't even haveanything to do with the drugs.
That's just, I think,unlearning what we're allowing
mothers to be, and women, butespecially moms.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
You're right, that is a huge misconception because
we're like, we don't domushrooms all the time, like
everybody thinks we do.
Like it's it's really not likewe're.
We're every week.
We're like, yeah, let's go getsoaked up.
Like it's it's never that.
So, yeah, you're right, it'slike it's what happens in
between those doses.

(24:39):
That really makes I don't knowI don't want to speak for you or
you, but like.
It makes me feel like I'm doingthe right thing.
It's the moments in betweendosing where I'm like I know I'm
doing the right thing, becauseI would not be able to handle
what's happening right nowwithout the clarity that I have.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
You're exactly right and sovereignty.
You know your choices.
You become aware of your values, what you care about, you, and
you are clear Like you know yourchoices.
You become aware of your values, what you care about you, and
you are clear Like you know thethe biggest irony.
Irony is that we're like we'renot numbed out at all, like the
mushrooms are the opposite ofnumbing out, and if anyone just
knew that, then it would justyou couldn't even argue that as
like a thing Cause it's you'reyou're more present than ever.

(25:21):
That's why half the women inour community, when they start
microdosing, they hate it,because they're just crying all
the time, because you're feelinganxious and feeling anxious.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
We get that, we get our angry yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
And so they want to.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
They they, they want to stop, because they're like oh
no, no, no, no, Like I can'tstop crying and I'm like sounded
like you needed to cry.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
When was the last time you had a good cry?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, and I think we're a society of like take the
pill, drink the drink, suppressthe feelings, numb numb, numb,
numb, numb.
And so I guess my question iswhat would you say?
The difference is Cause there'smommy wine culture.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Which I was a deep part of.
Oh really, oh God, yeah, ohyeah, I mean my show was called
the pump and I'm show like yeah,we did not know that been there
Like yeah, okay, so what's yourquestion?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
So I was just going to say, like for people who have
not done, have not microdosed,have not touched any type of
psychedelic, but let's saythey're heavy in mommy wine
culture, what would you say thedifference is between that
culture and like moms onmushrooms?

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Moms on mushrooms Awareness.
I think both have the samemotivation, which is this is
hard, it's really hard, and Ineed to find a way to get
through it.
And and I need I need othermoms to help me get through it.
Right, like you have play datesso that your kids can play, so
that you can hang out with momsand like, figure this shit out.

(27:01):
You have book club for the samereason.
You, we gather, we break breadtogether for that same reason to
connect and to say to, to likecheck yourself before you wreck
yourself against other people'sexperiences.
Right, this is what we do.
This is why humans, it's abeautiful thing about us.
And so the motivation is thereand I don't fault it.

(27:24):
And and the motivation for torelease the pressure gauge,
because it's a lot.
And if you have no tools and nocontext and nobody's presented
an alternative, of course you'regoing to drink a bottle of
Chardonnay at three in theafternoon because you're
rewarded for it.
Nobody, nobody's going to tellyou that's wrong Society.
It Nobody, nobody's going totell you that's wrong Society.

(27:50):
Commercials, media TV everyoneis going to be like girl mom
parenting is hard and youdeserve this wine.
And I get it, because you knowwhat Booth does the trick.
I mean it does Sometimes itreally does the trick.
It gets you out of your headand you can have some relief,
and I get that.
I think the difference isunderstanding that that is not

(28:11):
sustainable in any way, andeveryone on the planet knows
that excessive drinking is notsustainable.
You feel it not only in yourbody.
You witness it in others.
It doesn't work no-transcript.
And all of a sudden now, insteadof leaving the world behind,

(28:35):
you're stepping into the middleof the vortex and saying I'm
ready to figure this out and I'mready to claim sovereignty of
my own life.
I'm here, I am me, I can do this, but you're doing it with every
level in your head, it's notjust in your heart and you're
forgiving yourself for thethings that are hard and you're

(28:58):
forgiving yourself for havingfeelings and maybe even having
depression.
And at the same time, somehowand this is all combined with,
like, a lot of intention andwork right Like it's not a
passive thing.
And alcohol is passive, ssrisare passive you take it and you
sit down and you wait for it tochange.
If you do that with mushrooms.
We all know nothing's going tohappen.

(29:19):
You're going to be like I don'tPeople.
You have to work with it.
You have to want to change, andI think that's the difference,
is the awareness of saying I'mhere, I'm ready to change.
That's not working.
Whatever that is, and I wantsomething that's better, because
I just want to be like me,really me, and that's when it

(29:40):
gets really hard.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Right, right.
So I would even say for me, Iwas never part of the mommy wine
culture, but I understood it.
I think that since I foundmushrooms, my community has
changed, like my mom communitygroup has changed, like the moms
that I relate to are differentthan the other moms and I find

(30:04):
it very hard to relate to themommy wine culture the way that
I used to and it's like we're onthe same team.
We're all moms.
I get it.
It's hard, but there, butexactly what you're saying,
there's this intentionality withus doing what we do and saying
we know it's hard, we recognizethat and we're doing something

(30:27):
about it and we're trying tobecome better moms because of it
.
And we recognize that it's hardacross the board, but we want
to make changes to make it alittle bit easier.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
And I'm going to hold you accountable, I'm going to
help you and support you, butI'm going to like, I'm not going
to encourage you to continuedown the path of least
resistance, I'm going to holdyou to your highest self.
And that's what I find, likeyou know, when you kind of come
out of that and move intofriends do change, it's hard,
it's hard to lose friends.
Old friends don't understandyou, you don't understand

(31:02):
yourself.
And then I do think I say thisall the time and I can give
another fun story about this butlike, and now it's like, you
know, because your third eye isright, your pineal gland, glands

(31:24):
to calcify, and like yourintuition is legit, coming back
online, like you are, we say,waking up and kind of this, like
global sense, but there'sactual physiological, like your,
your, your intuition isbecoming, you are becoming more
discerning, and so I will justsee women and I'll just be like
you.
I know people, I know you, Iknow what you're up to.

(31:46):
Got it, you know, you just know.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Right, Right.
So people see you, people seeme, people see Leah, and they
say see where we are now, but weare such a society that is, um,
deeply conditioned to numb andand and to not feel things.
And so, going back to themicrodosing, and then people who
reach out to us and they'relike oh my God, I couldn't stop

(32:09):
crying, or oh my gosh, I'm likeso angry.
And they don't.
What advice would you give tosomeone like that, who wants to
just stop because they'restarting to feel and we're,
we're conditioned to not feel?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, um, I would say that you have permission to be
uncomfortable and we don't.
We are also very resistant, inAmerica specifically, to being
uncomfortable in any way.
Right, we all have heated homes, air conditioning, access to
clean water, food within secondsthere's abundance everywhere.

(32:49):
There's not a lot ofuncomfortability in our lives
and emotions have beencommodified.
You either go to your shrinkand you talk about it there, or
you have a period of depressionand everyone kind of tiptoes
around you, or you're just thatemotional person and you're

(33:11):
labeled as someone who hasfeelings and like a little bit
crazy.
And you're labeled as someonewho has feelings and like a
little bit crazy, and so youhave to.
You have to give yourselfpermission to feel your feelings
, and there's a lot of selfjudgment that comes with that,
and then it's not fun.
So it's it's addressing yourresistance to to being
uncomfortable, it's addressingyour resistance to change, and

(33:33):
then it's um, really saying andthen, and then it's trusting
that on the that you're going tocome through on the other side,
because the other problem isand this is not you know, I'm
sure you guys agree and we allkind of say this like SSRIs have
their place.
They are very helpful for a lotof people, but I think for a
limited time.
But what we've gone to is isthat the minute and this is very

(33:55):
, this is this is very potentfor women postpartum the minute
someone starts to go up.
If we're going on a scale ofone to 10 and a woman is like at
a seven or eight, here's yourpills.
Nope, we're stopping you rightnow.
We are not going to let you goto a 10.
We don't want to see it, wedon't want to address it, we
don't and and and and.
There's fear that if you go pastthe 10, there's like you're

(34:17):
going past a point of no return.
But the truth is is you get toa 10 and then all of a sudden
you go back down to a threebecause you let it out, and you
don't know that, because we'venever been taught that.
We've been taught that we'rehysterical and that that is the
pinnacle of of what you can do.
And so you have to just holdspace for women who are crying

(34:40):
and say keep going and you'regoing to live like you're going
to live, you know?
And of course there areoutliers and of course there's
clinical depression, and ofcourse there are, there are,
there are, but the majority ofpeople who have not had a good
cry.
And I talked to women in their60s and 70s who say I don't
remember the last time I'vecried and I don't remember the

(35:00):
last time I laughed.
I don't remember the last timeI laughed.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
We were just talking about this before you came on,
about knowing somebody who'slike oh, I couldn't tell you the
last time I cried.
I don't think I ever saw my momcry.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
And I cry daily and I also cry in front of my kids
and I also.
There have been times that,like my husband and I are having
a hard financial conversationand I'm just in tears and he
just knows that like it's justan emotion now, Like it used to
be, like what's wrong?
Why don't you want to talkabout this?
I'm like, listen, finances area hard conversation and I'm

(35:41):
having an emotional reaction toit.
You can keep talking, I'm goingto keep listening, but I'm also
going to keep crying and it'sokay, like it's just an emotion,
like it's not a big deal.
So that's how we are with thebody.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Your body needs to release it.
It's stressors.
I mean, we're learning so muchand so if you don't remember the
last time you've cried orlaughed like what is that doing
to yourself?
You know, like it's, it'scompacting.
I mean, we know that you haveto make up sleep, right, we know
that if you, if you are sleepdeprived, like you actually bank
sleep, so you have to make itup Like why wouldn't that apply

(36:17):
to anything else, like emotions?

Speaker 3 (36:19):
So someone who and I know the answer to this, but I
want to hear it from you.
I have my own answer for this.
Someone who hasn't had a goodcry, or who doesn't let emotions
out, or who suppresses andnumbs and keeps it all in.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
How are some of the ways that that shows up in their
life that are unhealthy.
Well, first, I think that,easily triggered, you can't deal
with the small things because,again, that's like that
compounding effect, um so like.
So you trip, you trip over thecarpet and it's easy to go into

(36:59):
victimhood.
You know it's the carpet'sfault, you know, uh, uh, this is
the worst day on ever.
Um, it's easy to cast blameexternally to, and then that's
like rage and it's like it's aneffort to get that out of you.
Right, that, and but you, whatyou need to do is and I just did

(37:20):
this I tripped on a stair.
I was carrying a box removingand I was carrying a box outside
and I was tired and I trippeddown the stairs and I fell and I
like somehow like ricochetedlike in between a door and it
was like really sad and I felland I just it hurt so bad and I
was on the on the garage floorand I just was like and I had

(37:40):
like a total temper tantrum andI just cried like a kid and I
sat there for like five minutesand I just cried and then I got
up and went inside and no oneknew because I just let myself
cry.
I didn't have to be stoic aboutit.
It was dumb and it hurt and itwas embarrassed for myself and I
just needed to cry.
I didn't have to be stoic aboutit.
It was dumb and it hurt and itwas embarrassed for myself and I
just needed to cry.
I love that and it's probablywhy I tripped.

(38:00):
I probably needed to cry theminute I woke up, you know.
But we need to get this out ofher.
I need to get it out.
So I don't know if I'm probablymaking a really long answer,
but is that?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
did I answer yeah, and I also think like when you
do that, sometimes the anxietyshows up.
So, like what you're saying,like the little things that
trigger someone, that like setsthem off, like they would
probably say oh, that's just myanxiety.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
And then we move in.
This is the second thing, thankyou for reminding me.
Then we, then we move into,like the glorification of
anxiety, the glorification ofworry, and we wear especially
women, especially mothers thismartyrdom idea that like, well,
I'm just a worry wart, I'm justa mother hen, I worry.
It's this glorification of atrauma loop, and so you wear

(38:53):
your defenses as a badge ofhonor because you're so scared
to fucking cry.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Holy shit, I mean that you're right.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, and I do.
I feel like too.
Like men can feel anger all daylong.
It's very normalized.
But if a woman is angry, if awoman is sad, um, it's.
We have a hard time holding,holding space for women, and I
find that to be very interesting, like if a woman is like, women

(39:25):
can't be angry, no, or we'recrazy.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, you're, and yeah you're, it's very and you
know, I think let's give, let'sgive humans like some grace,
right, like it's heartbreakingto see a sad woman, like truly
it's heartbreaking to see awoman in pain, because we are
yin, we are heart, energy, andso when you see that breaking,

(39:51):
we have a visceral reaction toit.
And what we've done and I thinkthis is probably like the age
of like science andindustrialism is we've tried to
fix it.
We were in our masculine, sowe're like, okay, she's sad, we
got to fix it, we got to makeher unsad.
And the motive there is isperfectly genuine is is we took
it way too far and we justcreated like robots and we

(40:14):
became fearful of the thing thatis our superpower, which is
feelings, but we just have tolet it out.
And so it's.
It's not like.
You know, I, I certainly I thinkthere's been a, I think the
patriarchy is real, I think alot of damage has been done to
women.
I think I think also, well,while it might be heartbreaking
to see a sad woman, it isterrifying to see a powerful

(40:35):
woman, because there is deeppower, deep power that comes
from the ability to create life.
I mean, of course that'sintimidating.
So there's obviously been, Ithink, efforts to tamp that down
.
Yeah, but you're right.
But some of it is just we don'thave any tools, we weren't

(40:57):
given the tools, and so it'sjust a misunderstanding and
there's fear on both ends.
There's fear on expressingemotion and then there's fear of
witnessing emotion.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Oh, my God.
So so you talked about.
The first time that you did ajourney was three and a half
grams.
Have you done more largejourney since, and have you
dabbled with other psychedelics?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I'm just sticking with shrooms right now, okay.
And cannabis I've actually hadsome really profound, really
profound psychedelic ceremonieswith cannabis and breath work
that have profoundly changed mein ways that mushrooms haven't,
and um really created a deepdeep.

(41:43):
I was actually just talking tomy daughter about this while I
was cooling her hair.
It's a long story.
She's like she's like I know,mom, you've told me about
cannabis, but like um, I waslike like just want you to
understand, because she wasasking about.
I was like like just want youto understand, cause she was
asking about.
She was asking about like whatare opioids?
And so I was like trying toexplain the differences.
But so anyway, I've I've reallyfound a real respect for

(42:05):
cannabis in a sacred way, and Iactually feel bad that I never
even considered it to be asacred plant medicine in the way
I consider mushrooms, um, butotherwise no.
And have I done more?
I think so.
Sometimes my guide, she justintuitively throws it in the tea
and I don't really know what Ihave.
So it's hard to say and Ialways say I'm brought up by

(42:28):
medicine women, that's how I'mbeing raised and that's where my
training is, and a lot of thatis just intuitive and there's
not a lot of like discussion,and for me it's a real exercise
in deep trust and surrender tojust like take what I'm given
and know that that woman is herefor my highest and best, and so

(42:48):
I just don't ask.
I love that, but yeah, and I'vealso had profound journeys on
like one and a half grams, youknow Right, I think I'm just
like I was.
I did a journey and I was onthe floor crying, of course, of
course.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
I looked up at her and I go.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I was like bawling and I go.
I think I'm just put on thisplanet to take mushrooms.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
I mean well, so I don't know.
Do you know much about humandesign Like what you're?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
manifesting generator .
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
What is your profile?
Or what is your energy type?
Sacral, or are you a?
What are your numbers?
The numbers, personality type Ithink I'm a four, six, okay, so
it's a four six.
Um, it's like a people personin the wise stage, I think, or
people person might be too.
Anyway, I got to look that oneup.
We were asking.
I'm asking this becauseChristine and I are three fives

(43:42):
and we both are experimentersand liberators.
So when you're going to tell ussomething is going to work for
us, we're going to be like Iwant to try it.
So, but I'm saying that becausewe have dabbled in so many
different modalities andpsychedelics.
But we always say but mushroomsare our favorite and mushrooms

(44:04):
are home to us.
They will always be home to us.
It will always be the thingthat I trust the most, um, and
it's always going to be thething that I have.
I have a little bit of aneasier access to mushrooms.
I can't always go and do anayahuasca journey I can't, you
know, go, and it's just.

(44:25):
It's easier for us to access ittoo.
But even if it weren't, I feellike it would still be home to
us.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
So I love that you're saying that, because well, I
love that that you guys stayhome, because there is sometimes
, there's always that point whenyou're kind of just have taken
the medicine and you're justlike, well, what am I doing
Again?
It's so exhausting.
Yeah, I believe I'm doing thisagain.
What was I thinking, I know?
And then there's this pointwhere I'm like, oh, I'm home.

(44:52):
Where I'm like, oh, I'm home,yes, I'm home.
And I think if you, if you viewour statements from a religious
context or from an externalcontext, it can be, it can be
very triggering or feel veryfake or even dangerous to make
that statement, and even my like, having grown up in a Christian

(45:15):
home, and and like it feelslike we shouldn't be allowed to
say that an external substancecan bring us home.
But then you but that is partof like kind of understanding
your own sovereignty and justunderstanding your truth and
standing in that truth andsaying it.
That is actually the truth andthat's hard.

(45:35):
I think it's hard to get there.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I think the way that I have tried to explain it to
people is, like you know, and myhusband has said this too, when
he does a large dose, itremoves all the shit that he has
going on in his life, in hishead, like all the bad stuff is
just kind of like lifted andhe's just able to be.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
And so.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
I've said this to people.
I'm like when I say home, Imean all the external stuff, all
the shit storm that I'm livingin just goes away and I'm
reminded of who I am, and I'mreminded of who I am and I'm
reminded that all that otherstuff is just stuff and it has
nothing to do with who I am.

(46:20):
So when I say it brings me backhome, when I come out of it,
and I'm sure you can say thesame thing, but like for months
afterwards, I am like clear onwho I am.
Yeah, and I can also see howpeople can lose sight of that if

(46:41):
they don't continue to do thework or the integration or have
a relationship with the medicine.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yeah, and one thing too I think I love that you're
saying like it gets away withall the shit, but also sometimes
, you know, especially in kindof the lower dose range, I find
that it just allows me to behome with my thoughts, like I
think I have like big thinking,because I'm not censoring myself
, I'm not cluttered and I'm justlike I'm working it out.
You know, I'm like makingdecisions and like I'm working

(47:11):
with my mind, truly, but, yeah,but I think if you don't have a
relationship, all of that can beincredibly destabilizing and
very scary, which is why Ipersonally think that,
especially for mothers, giveneverything we just talked about
the fear, the misinformation,the busyness, the overwhelm, the
whatever I think starting withlow doses and feeling it in your

(47:34):
body and creating arelationship with the medicine,
and then moving on to the largedose journeys, which I think are
profoundly necessary, but notdon't just do it in the way that
you're going to start a newdiet and wait for your life to
change in a week, like it'sreally can mess you up if you're
not walking into it preparedand with an understanding of

(47:54):
what you're working with.
And that's why I thinkmicrodosing is really beautiful
because you can sense thoseenergies, you can sense that
change and you can experience it.
You can cry for a month andunderstand it.
So then, when you're crying foreight hours straight or
laughing, you know, it's not soshocking.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, you talked earlier about talking to your
daughter about this.
I was going to put a pin inthat and come back Um yeah, my
son is four, so I have not, Ihave not talked to him about no
need right my mushroom use, butI do have stepdaughters, um, who
are 18 and 21.
And we have open conversationsto the point where, like, my

(48:34):
hope is that one day they do it.
So I guess what my question isis like what advice do you have?
How did you start talking toher about it?

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, well, you know, it was really my husband and I
both, and I'm in, we live inDenver, so there's a dispensary,
yeah, so it's like it helps,right Cause there's a dispensary
on every corner.
So as soon as she could startto read, she's like what's, you
know, what's the green monstercannabis company, you know?

(49:09):
She's seeing some giantbillboard, you know.
So we had to address it becauseyou can read and we're driving,
and so there's that and andthen I, you know, I, I had, I
think I started drinkingprobably when I was like 14 or
15, and so she raised aroundalcohol.
My family, you know, no one, youknow we just were big eaters,

(49:30):
we're big family, there's wine,and that's how she grew up and
and so we were just like she'sbeen going to the liquor store
since she was a baby and isaround all this and we never
shied away.
Now we really work hard not toget too tipsy or alter our state
around her, because I thinkthat's really scary for kids and
it's concerning, and I havedone it and it's a lot of regret

(49:51):
that I have and I think a lotof what microdosing has helped
me kind of heal, but um, we justwere like, well, we talked to
her about this stuff, so whywouldn't we talk to her about
mushrooms?
And more importantly, this isthe point, right, like this is
how we change.
This is how we change becauseif I can raise her not being

(50:11):
fearful of it and understandingthe truth and showing her and
leading by example, then whenshe's at a party and it's
between like alcohol, cannabisor mushrooms you know where I
sit I'm like maybe don't do anyof it, but please take the
mushroom, don't, please don'tdrink, don't even know what's in

(50:32):
it.
These days, who knows what theyou know?
Please don't drink.
Don't even know what's in it.
These days, who knows what the?
You know the THC is so strongit can really mess you up and
like you can, yeah, you know, soI and, and beyond that, even
just showing that, like showingplants as medicine, and so
that's what.
When we were talking about today, while I was curling your hair,
she's like you just lefttalking about drugs.

(50:52):
I was like no, I loved she's 13.
So like it.
Also, let me just say, if youwant the best anti-drug policy
ever, like, just talk to yourkids about drugs and like do it
yourself.
They'll never.
She has no desire, no interest.
So if you really want, ifthat's your goal, just just act
like it's cool and like you'renot wrong.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
My 16 year old is like that.
Like the amount of times I'vebeen like, you know, I, I, I eat
an edible every now and then,right, and he's like, yeah, mom,
you've told me yeah.
And I'm like, oh my god I knowabout still seven.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
The other day I was telling her about 5-htp
receptors and serotonin uptakeinhibitors in the brain and
she's like, oh my God, stop,that is going to be my kid.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
She's like, I know about the patriarchy and I know
about psilocybin Shut up momWith my stepdaughters.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I've been like, wow, it would be really amazing if we
all just sat around and didMDMA, like when you guys are old
enough, and just talked andthey're like.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Oh, my God, that is so weird, that's so cringe, but
like girl, that is like that'ssome ancestral, that's some
generational healing right there.
Because, like I really thinkI've went, I've I've known women
, mothers, older mothers whohave gone to like the beach with
their older daughter and MDMAand like healed some shit and

(52:18):
that's profound, Like to havethat level of vulnerability, um
of of prioritizing yourrelationship on such a deep
level, Like that is like lifechanging.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Well then, that's going to happen.
Like my, my 11 year old, is myinquisitive one.
We always said he never outgrewthat why.
And now I know like his, hisenergy or his profile type.
He's like the, the knowledgeseeker, and I'm like, oh, he's
never going to stop asking why,and I love that about him.

(52:56):
But I have had.
He's my question asker.
So I've had more conversationswith him about drugs than I have
my 16 year old.
My 16 year old was just like Idon't want to hear it.
I don't want to hear it, yeah.
But I have always said well,you, if you're going to drink in
front of your kids, and whywouldn't you have conversations

(53:19):
about what you're drinking andwhy you're drinking it and what
it does to your body?
Because otherwise they're justgoing to grow up knowing that
mom and dad drank and theydidn't know why.
And I see that a lot Like I'vehad a little bit of pushback on
spring break trips where I feltlike I was being judged and I'm
like, well, you're all gettingfucked up in front of our kids.
Like you're waking up everymorning taking shots of tequila

(53:42):
and there's no conversationabout what it is or why.
So why is it a big deal if I'mlike smoking a little bit at the
end of the night?

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I agree.
Well, this is just fear andmisinformation, right yeah, and
I think too Great.
Well, this is just fear andmisinformation, right yeah, and
I think too this goes.
I mean, I think like, first ofall, you know your kid, you know
, and kids like I don't thinkyou need to force it down their
throats either.

(54:10):
I'm not trying to get them todo it, I'm not like, hey, you
know, and I joke about mydaughter.
But I do try, you know, I amwho I am and I'm passionate.
But like I really do try tocheck myself and say, am I
trying to preach here, toinstill in her a way of life,
because I want to say that mykid is into it, or am I really
just trying to teach her andgive her the facts and give her

(54:31):
a wide you know access ofunderstanding that she's going
to roll her eyes out becausethat's what she's supposed to do
, but it's still my job topresent it to her, but from a
like, a dispassionate place,like not, I'm not attached to
the outcome, and I think thatcan happen with sex, it can
happen with education, it canhappen with a lot of things.
You know, parents, you get sowrapped up in your own dogma,

(54:52):
that you are pushing an agendaonto your children that doesn't
really actually have anything todo with like teaching them, but
rather molding them into acertain way.
And so that is what I thinklike when you talk to your kids
about drugs or anything that'slike again, check yourself
before you wreck yourself andunderstand your why.
And the one good thing aboutthe shrooms is like you do

(55:12):
enough, like there's no ego leftin me.
I mean, there is, but it's verysmall, and so I don't have like
that attachment to what I want.
I just want to.
I want her to understand, yeah,and that can get tricky
sometimes.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Well, and even even too like they may not really
understand it now, but they arewatching all of us transform
through just how we live, and Ithink that is wonderful in
itself.
Yeah, Is this really loud?

Speaker 1 (55:41):
It is.
It's a little loud, it's okay,it's like maybe we'll.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Maybe we'll pause for a little second.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
I know Cause it's like right above me yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
I'm talking and there's like parts of roof just
like falling off in front of thewindow.
That is so funny.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
No, it's okay, I promise.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
I also think what you're doing, though, you're
being honest with your, withyour children, and I would like
to think that that's kind of themotivation behind why I talk to
them too, because I also wantthem to feel safe enough to ask
questions.
I want them to know that I'mvery knowledgeable in this, so
if anything is ever presented tothem, so like, let's take it

(56:25):
back to that scenario where yourdaughter's at a party and
someone's offering her alcohol,cannabis or mushrooms, like
she's going to know, like okay,if I try these mushrooms,
because I've I worked withclients who were like teenagers
like, who, like, tried mushroomsand had bad trips, sorry, it's
like really bad.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Maybe wait a little.
Okay, let me just see if I canmute myself.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Oh, can you hear me though?
Okay, so I've worked with, likeclients I used to own a waxing
boutique, so a lot of them weremoms who would bring in their
daughters.
And I've talked to daughterswithout their moms in there and
they're like, yeah, I didshrooms last weekend and got so
messed up and had a bad, youknow.
So I think you talking to herabout that, is going to set the

(57:17):
example or set the president of,like okay, someone's presenting
me with this, but I know thatif I do too much of that and I
also know that like there'ssomething with set and setting
and I should do this safely Likeshe's going to start
remembering these conversations,like instead of it being like
our parents did.
And drugs are bad, okay, yes,but no, what?

(57:44):
Like knowledge is power, that'slike the big thing.
So I want my kids to be able tocome to me with questions and I
want them to ask questionsthemselves.
So I don't think it's a badthing to talk to our kids, but,
to your point, kai's four, likemy daughter's seven, doesn't ask
me anything, but the older theyget, I will talk to them about

(58:10):
it in the way that they're ableto understand it when they're
ready.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I will.
Um, I'll be really honest here.
I have a niece who's just aboutready to graduate high school,
who is like my second daughterand witnessing her just go
through high school when she wasaround 16, I was like, oh well,
were we giving her wine atSunday dinner?
And that was my initial evennow.

(58:41):
And I'm like is she going?
Are you going to parties?
Are you drinking?
And part of it is like I wantto like help her.
And you know, I try to likeweave in, like don't you know,
take care of yourself and makegood choices?
Not that her parents aren't,you know, but it's always good
to hear it from a differentsource.
But I noticed about a year agothat my instinct was to just
encourage her to drink becauseshe's an American teenager, and
that is even from someone whodoesn't really drink that much

(59:02):
anymore.
And then I was like, whoa, likethat's some deep programming,
it's a really deep programming.
And what if we just told ourkids that you don't need to get
fucked up when you're in highschool, like it's so dumb, just
so much damage?
And also understanding, thekids want to experiment, like
you're in that age, but likereally reframing the entire, the

(59:25):
entire conversation around that.
And so, when you like, you'resaying, like teaching them and
presenting the facts so thatthey know when they're at a
party, but also like what, if Iraised my daughter to say you
know what?
I actually don't think drinkingat a party is a good idea.
You know, I actually don'tthink that that's a good thing.
And if you are hurt socially,like those aren't your friends,
those are bad.
Things happen when kids drink.

(59:47):
They die.
You know and and and it's not.
I don't need to be the cool momtelling you that that's okay
and it's just.
We're watching gossip girlright now.
So amazing and so bad, but I'mjust like God.
This is such toxic.
It's on television.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
It's everywhere.
These kids are drinkingmartinis and they're like yeah,
and they're in high school.
Yeah, they're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
they're smoking, they're smoking weed every day,
they're drinking hard and it'sit's really programmed in us
what we allow our kids to do.
And so, yeah, I mean reframingout the alcohol conversation and
also educating on psychedelicsand dispelling the fear, I think

(01:00:31):
is a big task that we have infront of us as parents.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Speaking of fear, what was something that you were
scared of before you tookmushrooms, and what did you
realize about that fear afteryou took mushrooms?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I was scared of everything.
I was scared my brain was goingto drip out my ear.
I was scared of everything.
Yeah, I was scared.
My brain was going to drip outmy ear.
I was afraid.
I was scared I was going tobecome possessed.
I was afraid I was going to goinsane.
I was going to lose my mind.
I was going to become a drugaddict.
Um that I was somehowcompromising my morals in a way
that I couldn't walk back from.
Um that I would jump off abuilding.

(01:01:16):
I mean literally all of it,every, everything that they've
told us from the war on drugs,yeah, yeah, um, and I think I
think one pervasive fear that I,you know, is still sort of in
me, that kind of niggles at mewhich is just like are you crazy
, you know?
Okay, so you did it anyway Idid it anyway and I continue to

(01:01:41):
do it, and you're none of thosethings.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Thank you Nice to hear.
If you're crazy, we're all alittle bit crazy and I tend to
gravitate towards the people Iused to think were crazy anyway,
so I'm like I'm okay with that,I'm okay with being the weird
woo-woo spiritual weird friendwho's into mushrooms and
psychedelics.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
I know, yeah, and you get some side eyes.
Sometimes it's not great and Ithink I can be a little didactic
about things at times when Idon't need to, and that's just
part of my work and my shadowand I, you know, again, I get
excited about things and I liketo talk about it, but it what
I'm learning is what we're into.

(01:02:25):
What I'm into right now isn'tthe norm and has a lot of
context around it.
That is um is framed in a lotof fear and a lot of bad things.
Right, like spirituality canlead to a cult, spirituality can
lead to dark entities Likethose things are all real and
along all of those paths, youhave your ego to contend with.

(01:02:45):
And if you teeter on the sideof like wanting more power or
feeling like you're better thanthis righteousness which can
happen in any situation, whetherit's a religion, christianity,
buddhism, drugs, it doesn'tmatter Like the idea of
righteousness and feeling betterthan it's is part of like what
we all struggle with as humans.
And so to to acknowledge thatis like step one, and then to

(01:03:12):
again to come back to your ownsovereignty and just say this is
who I am and I love me, mycrystals, judge me if you must.
I ain't hurting anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
And I ain't.
I ain't possessed, I ain'thurting anybody, it's fine, Okay
.
So I want to.
We've loved.
I love every bit of this, andwhat I feel like we really want
to talk to you about and getinto is what moms provides to
your community.
What is moms?
How does it helping other moms?

(01:03:48):
I'm like saying, what is moms,what is moms on mushrooms?
And how does this communityhelp moms who are curious or
just already in this space andneed community?
What do you guys do?

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Yeah, thank you.
So really, first and foremost,we're steeped in education.
So, you know, empoweringourselves with knowledge is
probably our number one missionand, in tandem with that,
learning about this medicine incommunity.
And so we're kind of likethreefold.
The first part, the firstgateway, is just our online

(01:04:23):
community, our privatemembership.
It's $2 a month, so it justkeeps out the trolls and it's
kind of like Facebook for momson shrooms.
But again, kind of my vision forthat was that we don't need
someone telling everyone how towork with psychedelics or what
to do Certainly not me.
And if we just created a space,a garden if you will, where

(01:04:48):
people could come in and planttheir feet, we will grow
together, we will figure thisout together, and so it's called
the Grow and it really is justto get moms talking to each
other.
So all day, every day, there'sjust posts and conversations of
women figuring it out together.
And it's for the woman whomaybe is terrified but curious

(01:05:09):
about microdosing or evenpsychedelics and just wants to
circle the pond and witness.
And it's also for the woman,you know, who's been working
with this for years, or decadeseven, and maybe hasn't found a
community, but also has somewisdom to give, which is
incredibly valuable.
So that's our online community,and then we just have like
courses like I actually havelike a micro dosing one-on-one

(01:05:29):
for moms, like for people thatare, just tell me how it is, and
so it's a lot of you knowscience right up until your
brain starts to hurt, and soit's a lot of you know science
right up until your brain startsto hurt, explaining what it is
all through the lens of a mother, like mom to mom, and then kind
of why, like why would we dothis?
And kind of setting thefoundation and looking at it.
We really try to look atpsychedelics from a 360 degree,

(01:05:52):
like a multidimensional lens,because, again, shrooms aren't
going to change your life.
We, we know that like it takesso many things and a lot of
times, one thing I'm reallyprotective of is the medicine,
just as I'm protective ofmothers, so we don't.
We try to teach that it's notjust starting to microdose, it's

(01:06:13):
also like looking at your sleepand how much water are you
drinking and how much caffeinedid you have?
You know like don't, don'tblame shrooms for what sugar did
, right, you have to like reallylook at that.
And so, like presenting aholistic approach is kind of
what there are microdosing,one-on-one.
Then we also have a macro dosingfor moms.
That just is like, why would Iwant to take this large dose?
What does it mean?

(01:06:34):
What is a shaman?
What is a Ricky?
You know, demystifying things,and it's that course has like
interviews with just normal moms, not shamans, not healers, just
normal moms who you'd see atthe grocery store, that have
done large dose journeys andsharing their experience.
And again, I think, just tolevel the playing field, that
not everyone has to look likethey're from Coachella to work

(01:06:55):
with psychedelics.
You can just be in sweats andhave a messy bun and like having
, you know, be integrating, likeyou don't have to be a certain
way, and also just explaininghow to prepare for it.
And, again, intentionality.
So those are kind of ourself-paced course.
And then our foundationaloffering is like a three and a

(01:07:15):
half month course with 10 womenor less where you kind of create
your own intentionalmicrodosing practice, because
microdosing isn't really rocketscience, like it's not, I think.
We think it's like thiscomplicated thing and it's
really not.
For us it's more understandinghow it feels in your own body

(01:07:36):
and giving yourself permissionto create your own practice.
So I don't think we need anotherdude in a coat giving us a
protocol.
I don't think we need to dothese things.
I think you can figure it outfor yourself.
Just don't take it every, youknow.
Take some days off, don't takeit more than five days a week,
and know your why and everyone'swhy is different.
And don't just throw it downyour throat, like maybe just

(01:07:57):
look at it before you put it inyour mouth, maybe say a prayer,
maybe take a breath, maybe go ona walk and so.
But that's a lot of unlearning.
And then inside that, in thatcontainer, we allow ourselves to
peel back those onion layers aswe experience them.
And you're learning aboutmicrodosing not only from your
own experience, but listening toyour sisters who are having a
different one.
And one thing that's reallycrazy in our three and a half

(01:08:18):
month course is how much peoplemothers instantly judge
themselves against someoneelse's experience, like well,
she seems to be having a greattime and I'm not.
So I'm like failing atmicrodosing, I'm doing it wrong.
I'm doing it wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
We do that with our kids.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
There's so much gentle unlearning that has to
happen and we just kind of holdthat space and just say like,
just throw everything you knowabout doing something out the
door and just try to like workwith your heart, listen to
yourself, you know, you know.
So that's what we do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
The unlearning thing.
I want to.
I want to touch on that forjust a second.
The unlearning thing I want totouch on that for just a second.
I think a lot of people comingto us who have never microdosed,
who have never touched apsychedelic, they're coming from
a space of being medicated andhaving very specific
instructions and this is whatyou do, this is how much you

(01:09:13):
take and this is every day.
So sometimes I feel like whenyou're new to this space, that's
a good thing to have steps andstructure, but then we always
tell people and then you can getto a place where you're just
doing it intentionally.
You're like your practice islike whatever protocol works for
you and they're like, well,what does that mean?

(01:09:34):
And we're like you'll get there, like sit with it for a little
bit, like you can follow thesteps, you can follow the
protocol and then do your coldplunge and then eat your meat
and like you know, you got to doan hour of cardio and then you

(01:10:04):
got to meditate hard and I'mjust like, oh my God, like no.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
We have had so many bros come after us in the
comments.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
It's always the bros dude.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
But I think it's a testament that there maybe needs
to be some more women in thisspace.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Yeah, I was just texting a mentor before this
call and I was like we reallyneed the women to zoom in, not
from a sexist place.
I just see it going.
We're repeating the samepatterns, which is fix it.
Do it on a schedule so that wetake out any unknowns that comes
again from a genuine place.
This works to do it on aschedule so that we take out any
unknowns that comes again froma genuine place.

(01:10:39):
This works to do it over andover and over again so it
doesn't break again.
I get it, but this is softer,gentler medicine and it doesn't
work that way.
It's not linear, likepsychedelics aren't linear, so
don't try to put it in a box and, like I, freaking, die for Paul
Stamets, james Fadiman, thankyou, thank you for what you've

(01:11:00):
done and also stop stop beatingus over the head with a damn
protocol.
We don't need it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
I love that, so it's really just about empowering
women to trust that, like theycan do this in the way that
works best for them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
That's what I do, but I would also love to empower
men to do the same thing.
Like you know, y'all don't haveto jump in a cold plunge seven
days a week.
You can be softer.
And I want to empower men tocry and feel their feelings.
Like how many men do you talkabout on microdosing that say I
cried for a month?
You don't.
They're like I was productive,I fricking started a business.

(01:11:38):
You know, like it's, likethere's no softness that's
allowed.
I mean and I know they want itbecause people are begging us to
do dads on mushrooms, whichwe're going to do, but like it's
going to be a big slap in theface for dads.
Like you're not going to be,you're not going to be a
fricking, you're not going towrite code for the new app.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Are we speaking to my husband right now?

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Mine too, literally, I love that.
When is that?
When is that expected to kickoff?

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
I don't know.
Would anyone like to invest?

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Was this a hard?

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
launch Like who's out there that wants to write a
check so we can do dads on?

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
mushrooms interesting I'll talk to tony that
definitely needs to happen.
I am yeah, right I am glad thatyou touched on about like people
, like you don't have to.
You don't have to look likeyou're going to like coachella,
to like do this because they'rewe've talked about this before
but there's like the hubermanlike avenue, and then there's

(01:12:40):
like you look like you're goingto like burning man, and so
again, we have not really fit ineither of those boxes and we've
gotten hate on both sidesbecause it's like well, you
don't look like this and youdon't fit this stereotype, and
it's like yeah, duh, like well,I'm like isn't right, and I'm
like isn't that?
isn't the point for us to be uswho we are, right like I'm not

(01:13:04):
trying to go to burning man anddo the whole festival stuff.
I mean that'd be cool to do Iknow?
I still want to do it right.
I don't, I don't necessarily, Idon't like I need to lose, like
150 pounds.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
and where do they get those clothes?
Like it's way too much pressure.
It's called tape.
Okay, everyone just keepssaying like we need a mom camp.
Like when we're just we just goto Burning man in like pajamas
and serve tea to everyone.
Like that's so down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
I can't, I can't do all that I'm so down with that,
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
So I'm glad you touched on that.
Yeah, no, I mean it is.
And in the middle of that, likeyou were saying, you know,
there's like the tech bros andthere's Burning.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Man in the middle, there's just reasonable people.
It's like celebrities.
They're just like us Like.
We're just like you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
No, you're just reasonable people who want to
have an elevated experience inthis precious gift of life that
we've been given on this Eden ofa planet.
Like you want to pay attention,there's a bunch of people that
just want to pay attention andlike actually soak it up and
they don't.
You don't.
And also I get it.
If you want to start dressingdifferent because you start
losing fucks about what peoplethink of you.
You know, like I can't fit anymore piercings in my ear.

(01:14:21):
I don't know why I'm doing it.
I like it.
I don't know you change and Idon't give a shit if my parents
or my grandparents or my in-lawsdon't like it.
It makes me happy.
Those things are great.
And so you express yourself andwear the clothes you want, and
I get hippies Like I get it.
But also to to feel like youhave to fall into some label
again or that you're not doingit right, like to give, to give

(01:14:43):
hate, like you're not.
Are you taking the medicine?
Like how could it?
I don't even understand how itworks.
How could you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
That's what we wonder .
We're like like.
Aren't we supposed to be on thesame team?

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
I thought we were on the same team, dude, and you're
mad that.
You're mad for what?

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Why are you even like ?
Why do you even care?
Yeah?
You know, and that's, I think,one thing we struggle with and
we people get angry with usbecause we really try, we really
don't tell you what to do.
It's not our, it's not my place.
It's not my place to be even apsychedelic expert.
I'm just not.
I mean, I've got decades oftraining under my belt.

(01:15:21):
I don't even think I'll startserving.
I was shown I'll start servingwhen I'm like 63.
And my teachers are like no,you can do, mom, you are not
serving, you need 100 more.
My teacher's like 100 journeysbefore you even think about
sitting with someone else,Because you have to know your
landscape and there's experience, like knowledge and wisdom.
That stuff comes with time.

(01:15:41):
So I just don't know how youcould be angry at someone, and
so we really don't tell you howto be or what to do, or even
that you should dedicateyourself to your life, to
psychedelics Like.
That's not the point.
The point is happiness andchange.
However you get there and itlooks different for everyone.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Yeah, I love that.
How have, um, how has yourfamily responded to you doing
all this Cause you justmentioned your parents and your
grandparents and all of that andyour you know your niece and
have they been receptive to it,or do they think you're like
just bat shit crazy now?

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Um, there's a lot that unfortunately aren't
speaking to me and it's reallysad.
And, um, my mother has beendeeply supportive and we've had
beautiful, long, expansiveconversations, exploring things
just, and she's really like it'sso wonderful to witness a wise

(01:16:41):
woman like questioning her ownbeliefs and and letting her
putting her ego aside and justexploring different schools of
thought.
Um, my mother, my sweet littleScottish mother-in-law, is like
my biggest cheerleader.
She just gets it and I thinkthat, like most women, if
they're actually honest withthemselves or in, you know, and
I have like neighbors across thestreet who are, you know, in

(01:17:01):
their seventies and stuff thatare just like go, go, go, like I
wish I had this when I was yourage, you know.
Um, so I would say, overall it'sbeen, you know, positive and I
there's been some people thatjust don't agree with me and
think I'm causing harm, and it'sthat sad.

(01:17:22):
I don't want to cause harm and,um, I'm not in it for any other
reason that except I think momsneed help right now.
So, um, what are you going todo?

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
I love that you're saying that, because I think a
lot of people in this spacestruggle with that and we don't
talk about it in every episode,but I can almost guarantee every
interview we've ever had withanybody in this space has
struggled with people notspeaking to them because of
their convictions.
And I think the difference isyou and us and those people have

(01:17:57):
just accepted that and it'sit's part of it's part of the
price that we pay to empowerother people.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Yeah, and I find that , um, like thank you for
challenging me to find out whatI care about and what I believe
in.
Yeah, you know, that kind ofthat level of judgment is a big
mirror for me, it poses itselfas a big mirror, and so I have
nothing but gratitude for theopportunity to become very clear

(01:18:33):
in my values.
And so if that was like ourroles as we pass, as we walk
this life together, if that wasour roles like, thank you, and
all I can do and this is betweenme and God, literally that's
how I view it is I just I keepsaying this to you guys, like I
just check myself before I wreckmyself, like I just I gotta

(01:18:56):
keep it, I gotta keep, I gottakeep my shit clean and I gotta
keep it real with God, and aslong as I feel like that's an
alignment and and these days ifI, if I step out of alignment,
I'm shown pretty quickly, youknow, something comes back to
kick me and I ricochet betweensteps and have to have a cry.
You know, I, I, I, I canreflect, but, but you know,

(01:19:23):
judgment sometimes makes youvery clear on who you are and
that's a gift.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
I love that.
Thank you, tracy, for steppinginto the world of mushrooms and
sharing with the world your giftand, like we said earlier, like
you are doing God's work,because that is some badassery
that you can go up against thesepeople and everything you're

(01:19:48):
saying is spot on and there arepeople who believe in what
you're doing.
So thank you for that and thankyou for creating this space for
everybody.
Um, where can we find you onInstagram and your website?

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
Yeah, uh, moms on mushrooms, official on the IgE,
and our website is moms onmushroomscom.
All right, and it's pretty muchwhere we are too, yeah, it's
been such a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
It really has they likewise, like it's so.
I'm so like, what a job.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
I love our jobs and to you about it, all I want, and
I'm also like we just talkedabout psychedelics for an hour
and a half and loved everysecond You're our people, we're
your people.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
You know we get it.
We're your people.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
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85 | Moms on Mushrooms (with Tracey Tee)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}85 | Moms on Mushrooms (with Tracey Tee)