92 | Healing Through German New Medicine (with Abigail Puccioni) - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to another episode of See you on
the Other Side.
It's been a minute.
I am incredibly excited forthis interview Today.
We have Abigail Piccioni withus.
She is a former integrativehealth practitioner and co-host
here.
You are so welcome.
So, um, okay, you want me tosay it?

(00:29):
Go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
In true Leah fashion, the rabbit holes I go down.
Um, someone in a previousepisode not even in the episode,
I think it was just inconversation after we
interviewed her was like oh yeah, my sister's into this, like
German new medicine stuff.
And I'm immediately were likewait, what, what are you talking

(00:52):
about?
And then she sent us a link toyour podcast and I binged like
three episodes like in a day andwas fascinated and I'm like
texting Christine like Holy shit, my migraines and, oh my God,
your UTIs and whole.
Oh my God.
Like this is like insane to me.

(01:13):
I want to know more.
And so I guess that's where weare right now.
Like we're very green, new toGerman new medicine and we're
into a lot of weird stuff.
I'm not calling it weird by anymeans, but like if this is
something that we had neverheard of, I would bet most of

(01:36):
our listeners are similar.
So in that sense, like thisepisode, I kind of want to do a
easy beginner like what isGerman new medicine and how can
we utilize this in our journeyto health?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Gnm or German new medicine, it'sa completely different way of
understanding health in the body.
So we have the conventionalmedicine paradigm in which most
of us were raised I'm assumingand then we have the holistic
health paradigm which, as we'llget into in a moment, they're
actually a lot more similar thanyou might think, even though

(02:19):
they appear to be radicallydifferent.
And there definitely aredifferences, but it's still.
Both of those paradigms areultimately based in fear.
And so with the German newmedicine paradigm and that's the
way I like to describe it is asa paradigm, because it's not a
modality.
It's not like any of thedifferent modalities that you

(02:40):
might find within the holisticrealm or even within the mind
body realm.
It's not something that youpractice or that you do to heal.
You know.
It's not like Reiki orsomething right.
It's not, yeah, it's not apractice, it's not a modality.
It really is a lens throughwhich you see the world around

(03:00):
you, particularly a lens throughwhich you view health and
symptoms.
So in German new medicine, themost fundamental thing to grasp
is that the vast majority of thetime because there are certain
symptoms that can come beforewe've resolved a conflict
However, the vast majority ofsymptoms are going to be after.

(03:21):
You've already gone intoresolution and this I guess I
should probably back up and gointo like, what is a conflict?
But really it's this reframe ofunderstanding symptoms as a
good thing or not even good orbad.
It's more just understandingthe biological reality of how
and why our body's adapting.
And so this is when, uh, youknow we are and how we

(03:44):
understand what is actuallygoing on in our body.
What is the true root cause?
Because, of course, in theconventional medicine paradigm I
actually find that it's quiterefreshing because they are
pretty honest about this theyare like, well, we really don't
know.
You know why, why you have thisdisease, we have different risk
factors, but we don't know whatactually causes it.

(04:06):
And then, in the holistic realm, I find it can often be like a
wolf in sheep's clothing kind ofsituation, because often they
are so certain that, well, we doknow what the root cause is.
Oh, it's mold toxicity, right.
And so with German New Medicine,we question things even deeper
and we're like, okay, well, doesthis?
And this is why I encourageeveryone to do is to come into

(04:29):
this with an open mind andquestioning everything,
including what I say, includingthe GNM paradigm.
I'm definitely open to thepossibility that, um, you know
that there's more to researchand more to explore, even um,
outside of GNM, you know, withthe power of the mind and
consciousness and all thesethings, and so I think that I'd

(04:51):
never like to put a limit onwhat the body can do, but just
understanding this reframe oflike, oh, it actually makes
perfect sense why you have thatsymptom or, as I prefer to say,
adaptation, given a conflictthat you went through.
So, in German, new Medicine andthe guy that founded this, you
know, or codified this way ofthinking about the body, this

(05:14):
framework, although I wouldreally say that this is pretty,
it has a lot in common withdifferent ancient ways of
thinking about health, ancientways of thinking about health.
I like to say that this body ofknowledge is not really new,
it's just newly discovered.
This is the primal, ancientwisdom of how and why our bodies
adapt, and it makes a lot ofsense when you think about it

(05:37):
and when you question why.
So, yeah, going back to the like, always questioning why,
questioning what I say,questioning what Dr Homer found,
you know, and he's the guy thatkind of codified this and he
discovered it through.
Um, he was a conventionaldoctor, he, uh, but actually
both him and his wife wereconventional MDs and they went
through a really tragicexperience of losing their son
when he was, I believe, 19 yearsold.

(05:58):
He it was this tragic accidentwhere he was shot and ended up
dying from the.
You know the injuries and hadseveral surgeries trying to save
him and he ended up passingaway.
And it was actually someone whowas quite famous who
accidentally shot him.
It's this whole actuallythere's a docu-series on Netflix

(06:18):
if you want to see the whole,uh, how it all unfolded.
Uh, so, yeah, it's called theKing, who never was, and it's
basically like a member of theItalian royalty and this is who.
Anyway, that it's not importantto get into that.
But of course, keep in mind thatthe docu-series paints Dr
Hammer in a very negative light,like he's this crazy conspiracy

(06:42):
theorist guy, you know.
And when you understand alittle bit more about the
implications of what it means tosee the world through this lens
, to live from a place ofembodying the GNM paradigm, you
realize how mainstream medicine,even holistic medicine, is very

(07:03):
threatened by this.
Because ultimately, if youthink about what makes money,
it's fear.
Fear is what sells Keepingpeople reliant on you.
As far as the system, keepingpeople reliant on the powers
that be, that is usually in thebest interest of conventional

(07:25):
medicine.
And then if you look at howmuch money is being made in the
field of holistic health andholistic medicine, you start to
understand why people would bemotivated to spew some really
nasty rumors and say hatefulthings about you.
Know the guy, the guy whocodified this and and you know,

(07:45):
of course, say negative thingsabout you.
Know his crazy discoveries,whatever.
So I won't really get into that, but let's go back and just
talk about what it?
yeah, binge it, it's like athree part docu-series.
Um yeah, it's very fascinating,so that kind of gives you the
backstory.
Anyway, he found that he well,rather, he was diagnosed with

(08:05):
testicular cancer a few monthsafter losing his son, and he was
a very healthy guy, him and hiswife were both very fit,
healthy, all the things.
And he was like, wait, a minute, like this does not add up,
like this does not make sense tome.
And he had this suspicion thatthe traumatic loss of his son
was related to the developmentof the testicular cancer.

(08:27):
So he started volunteering inlocal oncology units because he
had already made a pretty goodamount of money through these
different patents he haddeveloped for surgical tools.
So he volunteered a lot inoncology units and he went
around conducting his ownresearch and he went around to
all the guys that had testicularcancer and he started asking

(08:48):
them, okay, like what you know,looking at the timeline of their
, you know when they gotdiagnosed, and then he would
look at their brain CTs.
And I won't go too much intothis.
But basically he found what inthe GNM world we call it a
Hammer focus is a nod to DrHomer, but it's basically a
lesion on a brain CT scan and hefound that every single guy who

(09:10):
had testicular cancer had alesion in the same exact brain
relay, in the same spot on theCT scan.
And in conventional medicinethey describe these lesions as
artifacts, which they're kind oflike oh, they're just random,
like errors in the imaging.
You know, they're just, they'rejust random.
And I guess he like wrote toSiemens, the, the company that

(09:33):
produces these imaging, um theimaging equipment, and they were
like no, we looked into it,those aren't.
We don't know what they are,but they're not just like
artifacts, like they.
There is something to this andso anyway it's.
It does get like reallypolitical, because he went and
took his research to theuniversity from where he was
from, back in Germany, and they,like I said very if you look at

(09:58):
the motivations and thepolitical stuff going on um, he
wanted his research to be doneon an even larger scale and they
kept saying no, no, like theydid not, they did not want this
to come out.
So anyway, he did all thisresearch by himself and like a
few colleagues, and over thecourse of his life he did I
think it was like over 40,000case studies.

(10:18):
So at first he thought thatthis applied just to cancer, and
then, through more research, herealized that, oh, this
actually applies to every singlesymptom or what we know is
disease in the body.
So, and of course, there are afew exceptions, like um injury,
uh, you know, if you fall offthe roof and break your arm or

(10:39):
uh poisoning like, yeah, if youingest rat poison or severe
malnutrition, if you're, youknow, haven't eaten in, like you
know, two weeks or something,you're going to have issues.
So there are, of course, someexceptions, but the vast
majority of what we would knowas symptoms and disease, uh, are
initiated from what and this iswhat he found to be true, um,

(11:01):
and confirmed with the CT scans,at least on the brain level
that, okay, there's a brainrelay, that is, you know,
everyone that has this diagnosishas the same lesion in the
brain.
He started with testicularcancer patients and then moved
on to the ladies with ovariancancer, which is like the
equivalent, and all of them thathe interviewed, they had all
suffered a very traumatic,profound loss, conflict, so,

(11:26):
yeah, a loss of someone thatthey loved, and it had happened
within a certain timeframe thatlined up with their diagnosis
and symptoms and all thesethings.
So, you know, he was a, he wasa visionary, he questioned
everything, he wanted to knowwhy.
He was not happy with theanswers that they currently had

(11:46):
available to explain things andthe conventional medical model.
So he was definitely of thatmindset, always wanting to know
why and go deeper.
And so I think, though, that inconventional medicine.
Like people know this, theyknow that trauma relates to you,
know leads to bad stuff in thebody.
I think everyone can agree onthat.

(12:06):
Um, I mean, even conventionalresearch would back this up.
But what he found was thatspecific types of traumatic
experiences and the way that youperceive that and the way that
your psyche interprets it, willlead to very specific
adaptations in the body.
And so German new medicine isessentially understanding the

(12:29):
map of our adaptations, the mapof what's going on in the body,
and it gets extremely specific.
And for me, as someone whotransitioned from the holistic
health realm and then into moreof the mind body space, and I
was questioning things and I'mlike okay, like yeah, it makes
sense, though, okay, trauma, Idon't know, bad emotions get
stuck in the body.

(12:50):
But then I started thinkingabout it and I'm like I don't
know, do I really believe that?
Like, oh, this anger from someexperience I had is like trapped
in my liver, like I just Ididn't understand how, when
different people experiencetraumatic things say, you know,
losing someone that they love orgoing through a breakup or you

(13:11):
know any any sort of experiencethat would catch you off guard
kind of thing why does oneperson end up with I don't know
ovarian cancer and anotherperson ends up with breast
cancer and another person endsup with chronic skin issues and
another person with no symptomsat all?
Like what can explain that?
And that's exactly what DrHomer found through his research

(13:33):
the impact of the psyche andhow we perceive the world around
us, and how that sets up toexperience conflicts in specific
ways that will lead topredictable adaptations that
follow a predictable pattern.
So yeah, I'll take a break.
I'm talking, let me go.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
No, that was very very informative, I guess in the
simplest way possible.
After I finished your first fewepisodes, I started like
Googling I guess I wouldn't sayGoogling.
There's like a chart right,like a GNM chart, where you can
search a symptom and it'll tellyou what conflict there is.

(14:16):
It's been a few months sinceI've done this, so I can't
remember exactly what it lookedlike.
Okay so, but one of the thingsI searched was I used to have
chronic migraines, like back in2020, I was literally on a fast
track to getting um a monthlyshot.
Um, I had tried medication aftermedication and then that's kind

(14:39):
of when my healing journeybegan and I never went back to
my neurologist to figure outwhat medicine to be on, because
the migraine started to likedissipate and then a year later
my husband got sober and thenthat kind of helped like not a
lot of migraines anymore.
So like there's all this.
So, anyway, I'm saying thatbecause when I found the

(15:02):
correlation between likemigraines, german new medicine
and the conflict involved, itwas like something similar to um
.
You would know I would have toGoogle it, but can you tell me
what like the migraine conflictwould would be?

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, so there are actually a few different
possibilities for migraines,because and this is what Dr
Homer found in um, this mightget a little too complex, so I'm
going to try to break this downas simple as possible.
But it, when we resolve aconflict and we go into the
healing phase, that lesion onthe brain level, the, the way

(15:41):
that the neuralgia um adapt inthe brain, uh, they, it has to
go through this um process ofsqueezing out the edema.
And so when we deal with, let'sjust say, headaches in general,
that's often coming from reallyany conflict that is in a
healing phase.
Because when and I guess Ididn't touch on this quite yet,

(16:03):
but when we experience aconflict shock that catches us
off guard, we felt emotionallyisolated in that moment and it's
emotionally distressing, it'snot like a good surprise.
So when a conflict event meetsthose three criteria, that's
what triggers a biologicaladaptation.
Now, what type of biologicaladaptation that's triggered, and

(16:27):
which tissue layers affected,which organs affected, that's
going to be determined by howyour psyche perceived that event
.
So, anyway, I, and then goinginto the first biological law
though, the psyche, brain, organconnection.
So when we experienced thatconflict shock triggers an
adaptation, um, and of course,the way we perceived it will,

(16:49):
you know, translate into thespecific type of adaptation and
therefore what symptoms we'llhave when we resolve it.
Um, that conflict impacts thebrain level, which is visible on
those CT scans, um the lesionand the brain level uh, which
will be in the brain relay,that's related to the specific
organ uh which it's affecting.
And then you have the organlevel, so that's the, you know

(17:12):
where the, the symptom and thehealing phase is going to
physically manifest Uh, and thenof course, the psyche level.
And so in the active conflictphase we have that compulsive
thinking.
You know, if you've ever feltand this is what a lot of people
um might associate with justfeeling really stressed, and of
course they could just bestressed Um, generic stress does
not necessarily translate intoa biological adaptation.

(17:35):
It has to meet those threecriteria of getting caught off
guard emotionally isolated,emotionally distressing.
So the the way that I can bestdescribe this as if you've had
like a lot, like way too muchcaffeine and you feel jittery
and shaky and you're likethoughts are racing.
That's when you're in a verysympathetic, dominant state.
That's when you're in a stateof what we would call conflict

(17:57):
activity and your psyche iscompulsively thinking, trying to
find a solution to the problem.
Again, this is very biological.
It's not emotional, it's notpsychological I like to use the
term psychobiological butfundamentally this is all about
how our most primal selves, oursubconscious, our animal body,

(18:20):
if you will, how we'reperceiving the world around us
and adapting in a verybiologically sensical way.
So, going back to your questionabout, let's just say, headaches
for a moment, that would beevidence of a brain level
adaptation, and so we would haveto look at what other symptoms
you were experiencing.

(18:40):
That would maybe give us a clueas to which program you were
actually running.
So headaches can be a bit of ageneric healing phase symptom.
However, with migraines, likeyour classic migraine, usually
that's from the frontal fearconflict, so in this affects the
pharyngeal ducts and anyway, Iwon't get too far into that

(19:03):
adaptation.
But it's this, this fear,something that's um, that's
about to happen, like a classicexample would be if you're in a
car and you're about to see, um,like you see a front on
collision coming towards you andyou you can't do anything to
stop it in that moment andyou're like, oh my gosh, there

(19:30):
there's this scary thing comingright towards me and I I'm kind
of helpless, you know I can't, Ican't do anything about it.
So when you feel that there'sthis scary situation that you're
kind of powerless to change,that would be a good explanation
for what that conflict would be.
And that's in my practice.
That's the most common one thatI see with classic migraines.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
That makes so much sense.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Like I lived in a state of like fight or flight
for like so long so and I feellike a lot of us do, like a lot
of us are in a sympathetic statefor, like the majority of our
time, like it's like it'sconscious work to get into a
parasympathetic state.
So like for me, um, I started toget utis and anytime I would go

(20:04):
state.
So like for me, um, I startedto get UTIs and anytime I would
go to a doctor it would just belike okay, take this antibiotic,
okay, take this antibiotic.
And then it got to a pointwhere and I know I've talked
about this a lot on the podcastwhere it was like then they
would be six, six weeks laterthan I would get another one,
and then four weeks, and then,you know, two weeks, and then it
was days.
And then, um, because of that,I ended up and then I started to

(20:28):
get rashes and then, because ofthat, I ended up closing my
business and then they gotbetter.
And then I connected, um,reconnected with Leah, and then
I got into plant medicine andstarted to heal some trauma and
then they got better.
Um, I don't know if you canelaborate more about like UTIs
and kind of that background, butit I didn't.
I never really did anythingwith it, cause, like Leah, it's

(20:51):
just like I started to heal.
So then they started to go away.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Right, so are.
Are you comfortable if I askyou a question?

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, okay, uh, with the UTIs.
Uh, who who was or who are?
Yeah, how are your boundariesbeing crossed?
How are your boundaries beingviolated?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
What boundaries?
Um, I didn't have any.
I literally didn't have any.
And I um owned a gym and duringa pandemic, and and I really, I
really struggled with with, uh,balancing work life and home
life, and um got myself into alittle bit of of trouble where,

(21:37):
like I, I struggled to separate,um you know, whether it be
employees, clients and and yeah,no, it was terrible.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
What boundaries is literally the exact answer.
I was like that one.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, so if you, if you think about it, and I want
to touch on the biologicalpurpose behind every adaptation,
and this will not make sense inour modern culture or in our
modern, um, you know, in our uh,conscious awareness, okay, but
think about, you know, a dogthat goes on a walk and it pees

(22:10):
a million times to mark its spoteverywhere.
Uh, so there's this primalassociation with, with peeing to
mark your spot, or think aboutthe, the terminology, like a
pissing match, you know.
So when we have, um, anadaptation in the bladder mucosa
, uh, which is in the ectodermgroup, which is so the,

(22:31):
basically Dr Hammer, um, hestudied embryology and that was
really what laid the foundationfor his findings with GNM.
So in the science of embryology, this all has to do with how we
develop as humans and differenttissue layers, and so with this
and it's the red group on mychart here, the, the ectoderm,

(22:52):
and so it follows a specific andpredictable pattern of
adaptation.
So in the conflict, active phase, and for you, you were dealing
with a hanging healing, becausethis would come and go, come and
go, so you were not finishingout the healing phase, because
you kept getting re-triggered,um, and we call that stepping on
a track, and so then theadaptation just starts back up

(23:13):
again, so you're losing cells.
There is cell ulceration in thebladder mucosa, and the very
primal purpose behind that is toactually widen um the you know
the like bladder so that you canget more urine out to better

(23:42):
mark your territory.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Holy it like it makes so much sense.
It really does, and I've neverhad it explained to me like that
.
But like I, I felt constantlylike I was suffocating and yeah,
wow.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Okay, that's like way better than what I just googled
and found.
That's like.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's why, hearing it from you, your explanation
really hits home for, yeah, theboth of us well, you know, I
think it's just experience andworking with a lot of women who
have had this, and you know youcan use the index on
learninggnmcom, google it,whatever but just seeing like,

(24:28):
oh, that's this type of conflict, that's not really going to
bring it to life, that's notunderstanding the fullness of
that adaptation and the specificnuances of it and how everyone
experiences different flavors ofthat conflict, and so it's
something that people don'toften understand and they get
really confused when they thinkabout the territorial conflicts,

(24:49):
because they are perceiveddifferently by men and women.
So for a man, uh, justbiologically speaking, his
territory is a bit more outer,okay, whereas for a female, you
know, it's like his and this istrue for females too, but it's
it's more his workplace way ofmaking money, his family, his,

(25:11):
you know, his wife, his kids,like it's a bit more outer,
whereas for a woman it's moreinward, uh, her inner boundaries
, it's about her sexuality, it'sabout her, uh, of course, about
her, you know, partner,romantic partner and her
children.
Um, and it can definitely abouther, you know, partner,
romantic partner and herchildren, and it can definitely
be about you know your workplacetoo, but it's just going to
have different nuances betweenyou know, men and women, but for

(25:36):
women, the way that theyusually experience this conflict
, I find that it's either abouttheir partner or about any other
area of their life in whichthey feel that their inner
boundaries are being violated.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
That's interesting, especially like we've talked
about like the hero's journey,the heroine's journey and the
hero's journey, and how, likethe hero's journey is up and out
and the heroine's journey is in, in, and like it just seems to
be this like correlation betweenevery conversation we have, no

(26:13):
matter what the modality is.
Women and men are just likebiologically and psychologically
so different, but the women italways seems to be inward, like
all of it, internal healing, andlike we're not externally
focused or externally driven asmen are.
So that's wild.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Wow.
So do you?
Do you have like a personalstory or experience that kind of
led you into this approach?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I think the way that I foundGNM and got really interested
into GNM was because I became sodisillusioned by the holistic
health space.
I well, of course, I grew up inthe conventional medicine
paradigm.
My dad's a conventional doctor.
I I had a lot of different,mysterious, you know, chronic

(27:03):
health issues, differentdiagnoses.
I mean, I was diagnosed withosteoporosis at a very young age
, degenerative disc disease,really severe back pain since I
was like 16.
Just a lot going on Wentthrough a phase where a lot of
like mysterious infectionspopping up and they didn't know,
like how to diagnose it.
And then I was diagnosed with aconnective tissue genetic

(27:26):
disorder, or you know, so-calledgenetic disorder, right, and?
And so they attributed all mysymptoms to this, to this label,
this diagnosis of Ehlers-Danlossyndrome.
And the funny thing is I couldprobably do a genetic test today
and would still technicallyhave that, but I don't have any
of those symptoms that theyassociated with it.
So then you start to think like,okay, do I mean, do they really

(27:50):
know what they're talking aboutor are they just kind of
slapping on a label?
Um, you know.
And then you look at, okay, the, the.
You know how insurance isinvolved in this.
And you know the I mean themotivation behind even giving a
diagnosis, just all of this thatyou know the I mean the
motivation behind even giving adiagnosis, just all of this that
you know I won't get into.
But, um, they are correct inthat.

(28:10):
Yes, okay, this is what we willcall this group of symptoms, or
this is what we will call this.
You know, um, you know resulton a lab or something, but who's
determining what's normal?
You know who's determiningthose ranges?
Who's assigning the labels tothese groups of symptoms?
So, anyway, I went through thatand just did not get any help

(28:34):
from the conventional realm,which I think a lot of people
probably resonate with, that dofind their way into the holistic
realm.
And so, in that way, I think itwas really good for me because
it gave me a lot of hope andkind of a way of taking my power
back, like I'm going to figureout how to heal myself.
So I jumped right in and did aum, I actually dropped out of
grad school.

(28:54):
I was in grad school forforensic psychology and I
dropped out to pursue myintegrative health practitioner
training, and so I, you know,did functional medicine lab
testing with clients.
I did the protocols, thesupplements, the detoxes, all of
that and over time, you know,some would get results, some
wouldn't.
And I'm like, hmm, I don't, Idon't like the way that that's

(29:17):
working in my brain, like I, Idon't like when someone, you
know cause the way that I thinkis very analytical, and when
someone, when I have their labin front of me and I'm, you know
, analyzing it and okay, this isthe protocol, you need to go on
, because we got to fix your gutdysbiosis, we have to, you know
, get all of the, the evil,toxic mold out of your body.

(29:38):
You know we have to remove theparasites, like whatever the
narrative is, which, by the way,is based in fear that, oh,
something is going wrong and weneed to fix it.
So, you know, I'm working withclients in this capacity and I
would do all the right things,protocol wise, you know, we
would, and they would follow theinstructions and some would get
better and some wouldn't.
And I'm like what, what isgoing on here?

(30:01):
Like that bothered my brain.
You know, having exceptions tothe rule I do not like.
So that's when I startedlooking into the mind, body,
realm, uh, and so I, you knowwas.
And I did have some successpersonally, by the way, with the
, the, you know supplements andall the all that stuff, but it
never lasted, or then I'd get anew symptom Like it was not.

(30:26):
After doing all the work that Idid and living a perfectly clean
life you know eating organiceverything, the perfect
gluten-free, dairy-free diet,you know air filters in every
room, whole house water filtersafter doing all the things, I
was like I should be doing a lotbetter than I am, like I'm a
little better, but is that?

(30:48):
Does this make sense?
And then I also startedquestioning the like ethics
behind it.
Do I feel good about askingsomeone to go on like a $500 a
month protocol?
Like, is that really necessaryin order to live a healthy life?
Like, are we, are we all thattoxic?
And then I'm thinking, well, Iknow people that eat really

(31:10):
crappy diets and that areexposed to all the toxins and
they're actually pretty healthy.
And so I'm like there'ssomething I'm missing here.
So I actually got so frustratedthat I just closed down my
practice and I'm like I need todo some inner work and find
answers.
So I stopped coaching for over ayear, I'd say, and I really

(31:31):
dove into the mind-body realm,the work of Nicole Sachs, I
think.
She wrote a book, the Cure forChronic Pain or something, and
it was this very generic,surface level idea that, oh,
chronic pain comes from likerepressed emotions, and I was
like, huh, like that, that makessense.
And so I just kind of, you know, I was like diving into, uh,

(31:52):
this a little more and just inthe mind body realm, you know, I
I tried all the, the Reiki, theemotion code stuff, the, you
know, homeopathy, I mean, youknow all the kind of different,
yeah, more mind-body things, andI still there was still like
something missing.
I'm like this generically makessense, but there's a lot of

(32:14):
questions I have that areunanswered.
And then I think it was througha podcast or something on
Instagram, I forget exactly, butI came across I don't know if
it was Freya Kellett or DrMelissa Sell, and they had, you
know, they were talking aboutGNM and I was like what is this
Like hold up, like, and I Istarted looking into it and it

(32:34):
was just this immediate, likeresonance and this light bulb
moment of just everythingfalling into place.
It was like, oh my gosh, like Ithink, I think I just got
chills and I was like this is it?
Like this explains all myquestions.
That's just, it makes so muchsense and I was like where has
this been my whole my whole life?
And then just that, thattransition process of learning

(32:58):
the knowledge, embodying theparadigm, taking back ownership
of my health, like, and I'm I'm.
This is not medical advice oranything, but I no longer engage
with the medical system at all.
You know, I don't go get checks, uh, I don't do anything
preventative health, because Iunderstand there is nothing like

(33:19):
symptoms and disease.
It's not something bad thatlike needs to be prevented.
I understand the role of thepsyche and my perception in what
I experience and so now, livingout this paradigm, it's just,
it's a place of so much morepeace than than fear, knowing
that I don't need to go check tolike, oh, is my body

(33:41):
malfunctioning?
Oh, do I have some scary, youknow disease, or do I need a
diagnosis?
Or you know, oh, do I need, youknow the, the doctor, to kind
of play the role of the savior?
Like, oh, to tell me what to doand to save me.
Like I just I don't subscribeto that anymore and it's just
been so, so freeing.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
I think Christine's mind is like a little hurting
Are, you are you okay, yeah, andI'm like, I'm like
flabbergasted right now.
So you mentioned you brought updysbiosis.
Okay, so I also went theconventional medical route.
I closed my business.
Then I started seeing going themore holistic route and when

(34:28):
I'm with the more holistic routeand there's so much confusing
information because it's like somuch, there's so much about
hormones and your gut and likeliver and yes and so with their
recommendations, um, well, one Ifound out, you know, I had high
cortisol dysbiosis, um, candida, sibo.

(34:53):
They thought I had anautoimmune disease, gluten
allergy, a gluten allergy.
Um, I started eatinggluten-free, I started eating
dairy-free, I prioritized sleep.
I stopped doing high intensityworkouts and went to like
Pilates and yoga.
Um, and I Leah can attest tothis I will go.

(35:17):
I would go out with friends andthey're eating a burger and
fries and I'm eating salmon andvegetables and eat, you know,
doing the sauna so many times.
You did not cheat Like you would, not even like stray from your
protocol Right and I've beenvery diligent about it for the
last two years Um, actuallyprobably the last three years

(35:42):
and I have seen very littleprogress and it has kind of
messed with my psyche because ithas, it feels, very defeating
Cause it's like you see allthese things online, like you
know high cortisol, you know doyoga instead of like doing a
bootcamp and and so I'm like Ifeel like I have done all of

(36:05):
these things and like I stilldon't feel great and taken all
of these supplements and like Istill feel, like I have issues,
I still feel bloated, I stillfeel, you know, so it for it,
it's a lot of information, andthen it can be very defeating
when you do that work and youdon't feel like it's paying off.

(36:31):
And then it's like so then yougo back to like a doctor and
it's like, well, it's this andit's this, and, and so it's like
when does it?
When does it end, you know?
Or when am I going to likemaybe see some fruits of my
labor or just feel better?
Um, and so I don't know whatyour thoughts and opinions are
about that, because it's, it'sjust, it's so much, it's a lot.

(36:54):
So when you were saying allthis stuff, I'm like, oh my God.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
I feel more like you, abigail, where I'm like I, you
know, we started seeing afunctional nutritionist for the
first time last year and havesince, like I, have felt better
and I have felt, you know, but Ialso like when my results came
back.
It wasn't near as bad as yours,I hate to say it like that but

(37:21):
you know, I don't have highcortisol and I didn't have
gluten and or dysbiosis and youknow.
so, like for me, I've kind of Idon't want to say I've
subscribed to it, but like I'vefound something that works and I
stick with it and it, and I'mlike you know, I stray from it
sometimes and I still feel okay,so it doesn't bother me as much
.
But yeah, with you, I'venoticed like you're reaching and

(37:43):
, reaching and reaching andthere's still nothing.
So what you're saying is weneed to book an appointment, or
you need to book an appointmentwith Abigail.
Yeah, because how do you?
So you do this for a living,now which I have questions,
we'll get there.
Um, what would you callyourself?

(38:04):
Like are you, are you a coachin this space?
Like are you a German newmedicine?
Um guide?
Um, what?
What do you do exactly?
How do you help people with?
Through understanding thismodality?
Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
I actually don't really use the word coach so
much anymore.
I'm not really like, I'm notpart of help helping someone
heal or, you know, resolve theirconflicts.
I primarily focus on teachingthem about the true root cause
of their symptom what, what like, what their symptom is from a

(38:40):
German new medicine perspective.
So I consider myself a GNMeducator.
So that is, you know, that'swhat I do.
I just I don't tell anyone whatto do about their health.
You know, I'm not certainly notanti-conventional medicine.
I think some people, when wehave an adaptation that has
you've been adapting for a longamount of time and it's a really

(39:02):
intense conflict, there areprograms that you would not
survive the healing phasewithout medical intervention.
So I want to make that reallyclear.
Our bodies, you know this, thisis not good or bad, this is
just, it's biology.
This is how we're adapting andcertain adaptations you will,
you, you could need a surgery.

(39:23):
You know, or you know, we can'talways um, continue to live in
this very unbiological world andcontinue to live with you know,
the amount that we heap on ourplates, so to speak, and you
know the the body will pay aprice for that right, like, we
will deal with adaptations andthat's normal.

(39:43):
And, um, I also like toapproach the topic of conflict
shocks Like they're not.
They're not bad, they're not asign that you're doing something
wrong.
It's just giving youinformation about oh, okay, I
have this symptom.
Oh, it's chronic.
Okay, what is this telling meabout the way that I'm viewing
the world around me, and howwould I have to shift my

(40:04):
perception to no longer even beeligible for that type of
conflict?
So and this is where you know Imean talk about things that get
passed down in the family.
I mean our perceptions getpassed down.
You know the way that you, whenyou grow up and you hear all
your family talking around thedinner table and they're
complaining about the aches andpains and oh, just, life is hard

(40:26):
, and you know everyone's out toget you, or I mean the
government's out to get you, orbig farm is out to get you.
I mean you know, listen to thenarrative.
How do your family members talk, how do your friends talk, what
?
How do you talk?
You know, like I can tell a lotabout what program someone's
running just by listening to theway that they talk.
So someone that's maybe dealingwith certain digestive symptoms

(40:51):
they might use the word, I feel,really I feel stuck.
You know, like things, thingsaren't moving in my life the way
that I want to.
You know, you, you hear howthat language is similar to,
like the, the flavor ofconstipation, even that like, oh
, like, you know there's thisstuckness.
Or you know there's this thingthat I can't digest, I can't
accept it, you know, I can'tmove it through my system or I

(41:14):
can't excrete it Right, and soif you pay attention to the
language, it can be veryinsightful.
And so I think, you know, payingattention to what you know,
based on the family you grew upin, the culture you were raised
in, school friends, I meaneverything, the media,
everything is shaping ourperception, and you mentioned,
like psychedelics.

(41:35):
This is one reason why a lot ofpeople have these really
incredible healing experiencesafter using certain substances
like this.
It's because it alters theirperception.
And when their perception isaltered to the point where they
are no longer eligible for thattype of conflict, that's no
longer um a big deal in theirpsyche.

(41:55):
So that can um be reallyhelpful for certain people that
are feeling, you know, stuckwith their symptoms.
Um, however, uh also have to becareful that it doesn't resolve
something too quickly that maybeshould not have been resolved
that quickly, and then you canhave a really intense healing
phase.
Um, you know and and at timesyou know, could potentially be

(42:19):
fatal, right, like.
So I'm not saying that that'sthe vast majority of the time,
but there are these, you know,we, we like to warn people to
not resolve things too quickly.
Um, you know, more of like aslow downgrading uh process, uh,
especially if it's beensomething that's been a really
intense conflict for a reallylong time.
Um, but yeah, I.

(42:40):
So what?
What direction do you want togo in now?

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Cause you brought up so much stuff and I'm like well,
I'm kind of curious of likewhat your thoughts are about,
kind of everything that I'vementioned, with just the road
that I've gone down and thechallenges that I face, like
with my hormones and my gut andand I guess I will fully admit,
like trying to like reach forall of these things that, um,

(43:05):
you know people are like, well,you should do this and you
should take this supplement, andyou, um, you know people are
like, well, you should do thisand you should take this
supplement and you should.
You know you should do yogainstead of lift and you should
do this and and and stillfeeling like it's it's maybe
helped a little bit but, youknow, still having that feeling
where it just it just feelsoverwhelming and defeating,
where it just it just feelsoverwhelming and defeating.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, so it's always about the your relationship to
the thing and not the thingitself.
So it's not whether, um, acertain supplement or protocol
or whatever, or practitionereven.
It's not about if that thing islike right or you know in and
of itself.
It's rather what is yourrelationship to it?

(43:47):
Why are you taking it?
Why are you using it?
Is it because, oh, I'mterrified that if I don't do
exactly what they told me towith this protocol, that I'm
never going to get better?
Is that the narrative?
Do you believe that your body'sbroken, that it needs to be
cleansed of these things?
I think that people who approach, let's say, a diet or protocol

(44:09):
or anything like that, from aplace of excitement and
opportunity and like, oh, thisfeels really good, this feels
really supportive, like I feelgood when I eat these foods, I
really love my coach, I reallylove this community that I'm in
and that feels really supportiveto me, notice how that's a
completely different vibe thanlike I need to find this, this

(44:34):
coach that's going to help meheal, and I need to do this
protocol, and like, oh no, ifthis practitioner can't help me,
then who will?
Oh, now I need to go seeanother specialist.
Like you know, there there'sthis energetic difference
between those two approaches,which is why some people
actually know, whether it's, Idon't know, raw veganism or
paleo or I mean whatever it is.

(44:54):
You see people that have thesecrazy success stories and it's
often because of their mindsetgoing into it, their intention
behind it, um, approaching it ina way that's not out of fear,
Um, so you know, like, oh, I'mdoing something nice for myself,
or even I'm investing in myself, right, so I'm worthy of being

(45:15):
invested in.
I'm, you know, starting thisworkout program cause I want to
feel stronger in my body and I'mgetting these results that then
actually make me feel strongerwhen I can, you know, go from a
10 pound weight to a 20 poundweight, that can actually
resolve a self-devaluationconflict.
So, of course, people can havesuccess through virtually any

(45:36):
modality, but it's all about theperception shift that's behind
using that thing or changingthat diet, because and this is
the thing with GNM, um, orrather with other ways of
approaching health and healinglike, oh, this is your problem
and this is the thing with GNM,um, or rather with other ways of
approaching health and healinglike, oh, this is your problem.
No, this is your problem.
Say gut dysbiosis.
Okay, you, you do have gutdysbiosis.

(45:57):
No, no one's questioning that.
Like, that lab result iscorrect and I can tell you I
could probably do a lab test onanyone on the street and they
probably have gut dysbiosis.
Um, whether they had symptomsor not.
You know, because we do havebacteria and this is an
important part of the um fourthbiological law, which is that we

(46:20):
microbes are our friends,they're our helpers.
So when we have a lot ofbacteria on the site, or fungi,
or you know that mycobacterialike TB or something, when we
have these microbes on the site,that's not evidence of
something going wrong.
That's evidence of your bodybeing in a repair phase, in

(46:42):
which those are the constructionworkers that are repairing the
tissue back to normal.
Those are the constructionworkers that are repairing the
tissue back to normal.
So when we get rid of thebacteria and we, you know, kill
it, whether it's a, you know,natural antibacterial or actual,
you know antibiotics orsomething, of course you're
going to feel better becauseit's putting your body back in a

(47:03):
simulated conflict, activephase, and that has to do with
how it's actually shifting yourperception through um
biochemical changes.
So when we have that going on,of course you're, you're going
to be more in that simulatedconflict active state, so you
are not going to have thesymptoms, or at least not as
intense.
Um, but a lot of times what yousee in this is antibiotic

(47:25):
resistance, right, when you'reconstantly pulling your body out
of that healing phase, at somepoint your body's going to be
like I have to start trying toprepare this tissue, like I
can't, I can't pause thisanymore, you know, because
you're constantly going back andforth between active conflict,
healing, and so it's like on off, on off with the cellular

(47:45):
adaptation that's occurring.
So if you had, let's say, withan endoderm program, like an
indigestible morsel conflict,that would lead to most gut
issues.
I would say we have cell growthin the active conflict and then,
once we resolve, go in thehealing phase.
We have the mycobacteria andyou know, fungal.

(48:08):
We have the mycobacteria on thesite doing that breakdown
process.
So they are the little, youknow, construction workers that
are repairing that cell growth.
Or you know we could call thisa tumor, which could be
diagnosed as such if it's caught.
You know, if there's enoughadaptation that continues on
long enough.
But I just like to call it cellgrowth.

(48:29):
You know, so we have this cellbuildup and those little
microbes are doing the work tobreak that down and in that
phase you will have symptoms, ofcourse, that are not so fun.
So you know, that's one way ofunderstanding.
Okay, why is there gut dysbiosis?
And it makes total sense.
Um, and so you know, that's whyyou, you would likely feel

(48:53):
better, but it's not going tostop that program from running
until you resolve the conflict.
And when you're in that hanging, healing and the way that I
like to describe it is, um, likeif you have a stab wound and
you know, your body's naturallygoing to try to close up that
skin, start to heal it.
But if you take a little knifeand you're just kind of re-stab
yourself every day and reopenthe wound, you're, you're never

(49:13):
your.
Your body's constantly going tobe adapting.
It's going to be that redness,the swelling, the pain, the
inflammation.
So it's always going to bemoving back towards the repair
process.
But then it's like Ooh, I juststepped on a track or trigger,
right.
So I encountered a trigger inwhich my psyche was it's like
this alarm bell going off likewarning, warning.
Last time you encountered thisthing, which could be food, a

(49:36):
person, a thought, an emotion,it could be a smell, it could be
literally anything.
Last time we encountered thisthing like the gluten particle
is a great example of this,which is, I mean, it's a very
common food.
It gets, it gets tracked in fora lot of people.
So when we have that particlethat we encounter, we get thrown

(49:58):
back into the active conflictsand our body starts adapting
again and then we chill outabout it.
So then we go into resolutionagain.
It's the cyclical process, andso the gluten is.
It's not like just I guess I'mtrying to say it's not just
psychological, like it's notjust in your head, like it is a
very real track, like your bodyactually is reacting to that

(50:18):
particle, even if you are notaware that you consumed it.
And that's what happens with,um, you know, gluten exposure.
When people who who have thissensitivity or allergy go into a
restaurant and they assume it'sgluten-free, and if they have a
program running with enoughconflict load where it's a very
severe adaptation, when theyencounter that particle, they

(50:41):
don't need to be consciouslyaware that they did, but
subconsciously their bodyrecognizes that particle.
That's like danger ahead.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
I feel like all this tracks.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, and even a lot of what
you said about like how yougrew up and and I grew up in
what I would maybe describe as ahome with some rigidity to it,
and so I learned those behaviorsof being very rigid on my body

(51:15):
and like the way I trained andin sports.
So and it's almost like I stillhave that rigidity when it
comes to like food and and andworking out and just that in
general and my last mushroomjourney.

(51:37):
And then I just recently did ahuman design reading and both of
those themes.
The message was, instead offocusing on doing, learning to
be, and then also working on myenoughness, doing less, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I love how many synchronicitiesthere are with so many things
like human design, for example.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
You coming on a day and kind of having kind of the
same message.
I'm like, okay, I get it.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
What I sent you this morning that like don't chase
attract, and that's been areally hard lesson for you.
But I'm seeing the theme herein like do, do, do.
I need to do this, I need to dothis, and I'm so regimented and
nothing is working and it seemsto be a very I'm sorry to call
you out.
No, I'm so regimented andnothing is working and it seems
to be a very I'm sorry to callyou out.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
No, I'm very conditioned.
In that way, I feel likeanybody who's watching?

Speaker 3 (52:33):
this is probably like Christine is going through it
this episode.
So sorry to call you out, butit's all very on theme with what
you're going through currently.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
And I think that's a very hard concept to grasp in a
world where you are pressured todo.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah definitely.
Especially women yeah that part.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I grew up with a single mom who was not a relaxed
person.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Yeah, so couldn't be because she couldn't be, yeah,
so when we go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
No, no, I don't want to break off into another topic
Go ahead.
I want to hear what you have tosay yeah, I do too, Okay, I was
just going to say this might bea little off topic, but for when
we get into all the sexualconflicts and territorial
conflicts for women, a reallybig theme with this,
specifically with cervicaladaptations, we have a whole

(53:40):
episode that is coming out laterin September on the cervix and
cervical adaptation, cervicalcancer et cetera.
So we have a whole episode onthat coming out.
But with this topic of you know, these sexual conflicts, it's
all about your relationship tothe masculine and do I feel safe

(54:02):
, protected and provided for,you know, and that is a really
big one for women.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
I love all these parallels.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
I do too, Like we're in the if you look at modern
culture, right, it's like, oh, alot of us have had really
fractured relationships with themasculine.
Yeah, oh, where we do have todo it, all right.
We put all this pressure onourself because we don't feel
protected and provided for.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
we don't feel safe to be in our feminine this is
literally the conversation wewere having today at lunch.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Yeah, yeah, well, and and and I think you know, like
growing up with a single mother,how can she be in her feminine
and then how can she raisechildren who are also in their
feminine?
So I've, I had never had a saferelationship until I met my
partner now.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
So I think it just it has taken really a lot of time
to kind of like decondition, um,and I'm still obviously working
on that well, and to that, likeI think it's interesting
because we were talking aboutthis earlier we've both kind of
very much transitioned out frombeing the I was, you know, with

(55:21):
my husband and I.
We were both the breadwinners,we both made the same amount of
money.
And then, when I closed mybusiness, like everything kind
of shifted and now I'm more thestay at home mom and I feel like
I'm not doing enough andbecause we don't know this life
like Christine too like sinceshe closed her business this is
like it's very much shifted into.
Now we're being provided forand taken care of and we don't

(55:43):
know what to do with that.
Like everything we're shiftinginto feels like we're not doing
enough because we're so used tothis other life where we did it
all.
You know it's it's hard to takea step back and say what I am
doing is enough, like this iswhat I am supposed to be doing

(56:07):
for us.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
You know it's, it's really difficult to um to and,
like that, be okay, yeah, sothat's, that's something that
I've.
I've really, I'm trying to likekind of give myself a little
bit of permission to do thosethings and it not feel guilty

(56:40):
about it, because if you're, ifyou're, if you're resting, and
you're feeling guilty about it,it's not rest.
I've learned.
So, um, yeah, I think that'shard, for I feel like a lot of
women and a lot of mothers couldum relate to that.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
So can I ask what like the different conflicts are
Like?
Is there like a it's, is itlike thousands, Is it like five,
Is it 10?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
So with Dr Homer, you know, only could do so much in
his lifetime, uh, and he gotthrough an awful lot of the
biological programs.
But I think that there is stillso much more research to do.
There's still a lot, that a lotof gaps to fill in, if you will
.
But I believe that there aresomewhere over 200 biological

(57:32):
adaptations that that he foundthat each have a specific type
of correlating conflict orflavor of conflict.
So yeah, I mean I certainlycan't list them all off in like
a 10 hour episode.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Right, yeah, interesting.
Okay, so this is like I meansorry to change the subject.
I mean we're still on the samesubject, don't get me wrong, but
obviously this is like a littlebit controversial in the
medical community and we weretalking about this earlier too
because so is speaking on likenutrition and diet and
environmental toxins, likethat's like a big no-no in the

(58:09):
medical community.
Like you don't do that.
So how do you addressskepticism or criticism that
surrounds this modality and howdo you encourage people to keep
an open mind?

Speaker 2 (58:21):
that surrounds this modality and how do you
encourage people to keep an openmind?
Well, first of all and I've hadto do a lot of inner work on
this uh, because when you findsuch a beautiful way of of
thinking about health and thebody, something that's brought
me a lot of peace, um, andsomething that resonates with me
, it is hard to not want to justshare that with everyone.
And you and I have a podcast.

(58:42):
I talk about it, my Instagramvery public about it, but I do
not.
And again, this has been a longjourney, but I don't try to
convince anyone.
I don't care to interact withskeptics.
I was interviewed for anarticle recently and they were
like, what would you say to thenaysayers?
And I was like I don't want totalk to the naysayers, like I

(59:02):
could care less, like that isnot worth my peace.
I don't if someone, if thisdoesn't resonate with someone,
that is totally fine.
You know, I don't presume thatI'm right or that I've found the
right way.
This is just what makes senseto me, and this is I always
encourage people.
Just what makes sense to me,and this is I always encourage
people.
What is your definition of truth?

(59:24):
You know, and even with scienceand the current capabilities of
scientific research which, bythe way, GNM cannot people in
the community will disagree withme, but I don't believe it can
be definitively proven withcurrent scientific capabilities,
with research, because we can'tresearch the psyche.

(59:45):
I mean, you know people aremaking advances in this field
but we can't research the reallyand get, I guess, quantitative
data with.
How does your psyche interpretthis?
What is your perception of theworld?
Like that is really the psychebased component of this.
Like sure, we can prove thebrain level with, like the CT
scans and whatnot, but for thepsyche, uh, level, we, we really

(01:00:09):
don't have a good way to getquantitative data on that.
So I'm just going to be superhonest about that and like I,
but to me it's, it's a beliefthat I, like I choose to believe
it because my definition oftruth is what brings me closer
to peace and away from fear.
And that's just for mepersonally.

(01:00:29):
And I think everyone has to gothrough this process of what
does truth mean to them?
Who do they want to outsourcetheir health?
Who are they going to trust?
Because, as you mentioned, Imean even within the
conventional and holisticcommunity, how much you know,
so-called research is out therethat contradicts other research

(01:00:51):
out there.
I mean you can take data andskew it and present it pretty
much any way that you want, andif you look at, okay, who's
paying for the research study tobe done?
I mean, then you go down evendeeper rabbit hole.
Okay, who's paying for theresearch study to be done?
I mean, then you go down evendeeper rabbit hole.
But you know, I'm just I'm notinterested in trying to prove it
to anyone, because why?
You know, like I really, in avery kind way, like I don't care

(01:01:13):
, I care about.
I need to focus on myself, whatmy own health, taking back my
own personal responsibility andpower to access my greatest
level of personal freedom, andit's really none of my business
what anyone else chooses tobelieve.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Can I just say I love your authenticity.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
I mean you're so, you're so right, Like that's.
You know.
I do believe that sometimeswhen something is for you, it
shows itself to you in in auniversally whatever you believe
to be God, the universe, higherpower, in in whatever
inexplainable way you can like.
That's usually how things likeI was reading, watching

(01:02:01):
something this morning it's likeyou can't change a person, no
matter how much you try.
You cannot force someone tochange if they are unwilling to
change or if they don't want tolike they have to want to.
And then, energetically, whenthey want to change, the answers
will start showing up in theseobscure, inexplainable ways.

(01:02:22):
So I don't think it's acoincidence that, like we came
across this and immediate, we'relike wait, what did you just
say?
German knew what you know,because we were already like
searching for answers andalready open to anything else

(01:02:43):
that the universe had to offer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
So I don't know.
Wow, call me crazy, yeah, mostmost people are probably not
ready to receive thisinformation, and you know that's
totally fine.
I think probably two or threeyears before I found GNM, I
would have not received it well,and so, and again, maybe
there's still another layer ofyou know my, my personal, you

(01:03:09):
know evolution with my beliefsabout health, that I that I
haven't reached yet.
You know, maybe this will nolonger resonate with me one day.
I don't know, but I'm, this iswhere I'm at right now and what
makes sense to me, what hasgiven me the most peace, what
has given me my power back andwhat has helped me feel, feel
better, live better.
Everything compared to otherparadigms I was operating in is

(01:03:47):
significant, and so you knowthat's where I'm always like
respecting the process of theindividual and where they're at,
and you know seeing the divinein them and seeing you know they
might not be um at the rightplace in their journey to be
open to receive that, and that'sokay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Can I ask a personal question?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Okay, you said your dad is in conventional medicine.
What are his thoughts on this?
On this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
So he's, he's a neuroradiologist and we, you
know I love my dad, he's, he'sgreat, he's very.
I think he has been soingrained in this paradigm his
whole life and his wholetraining and you know, he's not

(01:04:40):
really one to question the normor, oh, what the, what the
experts say or the way that hewas taught.
I think, yeah, probably not tothe extent that, certainly that
I've questioned thing.
But he also hasn't had theexperience that I have of going

(01:05:00):
through all those reallydifficult chronic symptoms and,
you know, disillusionment withthe conventional paradigm and
then with the holistic healthparadigm.
Uh, so if you don't havereasons to question your
paradigm, you know, why wouldyou really?
So I think you know he has atotally different story and, um,

(01:05:21):
he's, but he very good at whathe does.
You know he does, uh,diagnostics, looking at, you
know MRIs, imaging, you knowfinding, um, you know stuff with
, you know head, neck and spineRight and so, um, and when we
have a need for people like that, right, even with emergency
medicine, and people who youknow have these traumatic
accidents and injuries, I meanthey're, I am very thankful for

(01:05:43):
emergency medicine, certainly,and for people you know, like
neuroradiologists, that arethere reading the scans and
saying, okay, we need to do thisemergency intervention, and
even with biological adaptations, from the GNM perspective,
there are also swellings in thebrain that would absolutely kill
a person that would needconventional intervention, and

(01:06:05):
so you know what he does andwhat a lot of other doctors do
still has a place.
So I think that it's importantto recognize that and that's why
, you know, I wish that therewere, or that there was, a
hospital system that doctors didwhat they're so good at doing,
but that they were operatingfrom a place of, you know,
embodying the GNM paradigm anddoing interventions in a way

(01:06:28):
that they're doing, you know,maybe, what needs to be done,
while also respecting the body'sability to heal.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
I was just going to say.
I feel like Dr Homer was one ofthose who, like, was both sides
but was kind of shunned for it,and so I think it's you can't
leave traditional medicine anddo this and practice both Like
they're not going to let you dothat.
So it's kind of it's messed upthat there is no merging of the

(01:06:56):
two, yeah, and he wanted GNM toto be.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
He wanted this framework to be in hospitals,
right, like he wanted doctors tobe the ones you know, operating
from a GNM perspective withtheir patients.
And now, the reason why peoplelike I do education is because
it's been so shunned by themedical system.
You know we really don't havethat.
How else are we going to getthis information out to people?
So, but in his vision it wouldI mean he would.

(01:07:23):
He wasn't like anti the medicalsystem, he wanted this to be
part of the medical system.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
He was in the medical system.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
And he wanted all of this to bedone with, like you know the
way that they set up any othermedical research experiment and
you know the research trials andall this stuff.
He wanted this to be a reallylarge scale research operation.
He wanted someone to try toprove him wrong.
You know, like, what, like,look into this and they just

(01:07:56):
that how it would alter theparadigm and the narrative and
really take, I mean, it would.
You would still need certaininterventions, but it would do
away with the vast majority ofinterventions that are that are
out there Um, certainly not allof them, but it would make a lot
of things Um it.
You know that he was very bigon um not just relying on

(01:08:17):
bandaid fixes, right, becausethat's what we do.
We're just bandaid, fixingeverything, and sometimes that's
totally fine, cause that's whatwe do.
We're just band-aid fixingeverything, and sometimes that's
totally fine because that'swhat the patient wants.
But even the impact of, say andthis is actually what I had a
conversation with my dad about Isaid, well, I said, do you

(01:08:40):
think that someone receiving acancer diagnosis that that could
be part of what makes it sooften quite fatal?
And he thought about it andhe's like, well, yeah, but I
mean, how, how are you going to?
He's like I can, yeah, I candefinitely see that playing a
role, that the way in whichthey're given a diagnosis, that
that shocking moment in whichthey're like, oh, you only have
so long to live.
So I, you know, I had thisconversation with my dad.

(01:09:00):
I'm like how much of an impactdo you think that that has?
You know, like, what, what arewe missing here when we do?
You know, when someone gets alife altering diagnosis, what is
the impact of that?
You know, is, you know, doctorstake this oath to do no harm,
right?
And I'm like, in my opinion, Ithink that does a lot of harm,
especially when, in conventionalmedicine, they know full well

(01:09:23):
the impact of trauma.
I mean, there are a lot ofresearch studies on the impact
of traumatic experiences.
So it kind of blows my mindthat that this really hasn't
changed the way that they, thatthey do things as far as giving
a diagnosis Right, um, yeah, soanyway, we did have a cool
conversation on that and he'sdefinitely like he sees the

(01:09:46):
plausibility and he understandslike, oh, yeah, there there is
something to that, but it's notwhat's been proven by current
research.
You know, um, we need a, youknow, uh, actual, you know
research trial to prove that youknow whatever, and so I do, I
do under I get that, but, um,yeah, we have had conversations

(01:10:07):
um about that, so I've neverthought about that before, but
that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Um, what do you think of?
This is so fucking random andI'm so sorry.
What do you think of?
Um, you can heal your life byLouise Hay.
You Can Heal your.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Life by Louise Hay.
I don't know if I've read thatbook, I feel like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
There's a lot of similarities, although hers
isn't like as I don't want tosay prescriptive, because that's
not the right word, but astangible.
But it's very much like whenthis is happening in your life
physically.
This could be something thatyou're going through mentally
and this is how you can heal it.

(01:10:48):
It sounds similar.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
I could be wrong.
I mean there's there's a lot ofa lot of books out there, um,
and a lot of you know teachersand speakers and coaches that
are talking about the mind bodyconnection.
This is not new.
I mean, this is very ancientwisdom, right, right.
So I mean I definitely haveheard of Louise Hay and I
recently read a book by ByronKatie called, I think, loving

(01:11:13):
what Is, and that was reallyexcellent.
And oh, another one of myfavorite books, the Biology of
Belief by Bruce Lipton.
That's a really fantastic bookand when you, and even Deepak
Chopra, you know, when you read,you know from these different
authors, there are so manysynchronicities that just

(01:11:34):
totally makes sense from the GNNparadigm.
So, yeah, and even looking intoyeah, yeah, and even you
mentioned, like human design oryou know any other, um, I don't
know if you want to call it, youknow, modality or way of
thinking or way of understandingourselves.
I think that this is wherethere is a gap in GNM.

(01:11:54):
That this can fill in is whatsets us up to perceive the world
in a certain way, Like whatprimes our perception to be more
, uh, prone to indigestiblemorsel conflicts versus
separation conflicts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Okay, you have mentioned a podcast a few times
and I don't think we said it inthe beginning.
Well, no, we did.
But, like I really want to um,invite our listeners to kind of
do what we did and start fromthe beginning, because it's it's
a lot of information, but notalso, it's like, easy to digest,

(01:12:34):
if that makes sense.
So I, I want you to plug yourpodcast because I really feel
like if this episode has soundedoverwhelming or sounded like a
lot of information, I really gota lot out of your just
listening in order, and I thinkthat they would too.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
So let our listeners know, like, where they can find
you and you know what's comingup for the podcast for you guys,
and can you also share, like ifif this episode resonated with
a lot of our listeners, how umpeople can can connect with you
if can you do like one-on-one,like individual work?

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Yeah sure I can, I can touch on all that, um.
So, yes, with the podcast, myco-host, ashley and I we really
wanted to create this resourcefor people to be really, like
you said, easy to digest, veryapproachable and also
incorporating some humor.
We have a lot of fun with it.
We want this to be reallyeasily digestible for people

(01:13:39):
because I find that a lot of GNMresources out there, as you
probably know, can be reallyoverwhelming and full of
different you know, keep in mind, dr Hammer's work was
translated from German, okay.
So, uh, it can be full ofdifferent language or the GNM
lingo that can be like what theheck is this?
Or very medical terminology too.
Um, and, and people can getvery uh, easily unless they have

(01:14:03):
a medical background, it can bepretty overwhelming and
confusing.
And so we really do our best inthe podcast to break down GNM
and to offer free education in away that hopefully will
resonate with people, with wherethey're at in a way that makes
sense to them, and then they cankind of chew on that, with
where they're at in a way thatmakes sense to them, and then
they can kind of chew on that.
And I always encourage peoplelike, don't take my word for it,

(01:14:25):
don't take Dr Hammer's word forit.
Like you have to see.
How does this land with you?
How does this resonate?
Does it make sense?
You know, question it, questionthe paradigm, question your
current paradigm.
Does it make sense to you,right, to keep taking the same
supplement when you know maybeit's not, you know, not really

(01:14:45):
getting better, like, does itmake sense?
Yeah, so I think yeah, taking alook at, kind of, where you're
at and make your beliefs workfor you.
Are they moving you closer topeace or to fear?
And that's really the firstquestion I would invite anyone
to ask themselves.
So yeah, with the podcast, ifyou're brand new to GNM and

(01:15:10):
you're like what the heck is GNMand I want to know the basics,
listen to episodes five, six,two and three in that order I
don't know why we didn't putthem out in that order, but that
is the order to listen to themtoo, Got it, I've done

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
two, three.
I've done two, three two, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
And then as far as what I personally offer, again,
I don't help anyone heal theirsymptoms, you know, I make that
very clear.
It is not my job to heal yoursymptoms or to resolve your
conflicts for you.
Uh, however, I do offerone-on-one sessions in which I
educate you about your symptom,what it means from the GNM

(01:15:54):
perspective.
So, again, not medical advice.
Uh, it's not a prescription,it's not a protocol.
I'm not telling you what to do.
I am just saying okay, let'sconstruct a timeline, let's
figure out when did this symptomstart in your life?
This is the type of relatedconflict.
This is the type of adaptation.
This is exactly what yourbody's doing and why it's doing
it, the biological purpose of it.

(01:16:14):
Okay, let's look at you.
Know where were you at in life?
A lot of this is patternrecognition.
You know I'm playing likesymptom detective and we're
figuring out how is thisconflict manifesting in your
life and why, if it's a chronicsymptom, why is that conflict
still relevant in your psyche,right?
So what?
Uh, the most basic way to sayit is that chronic symptoms

(01:16:38):
point to chronic conflicts, andthat's really the most simple
way to put it.
So I do help people one-on-one,that capacity, and then I also
offer free education, not juston the podcast, but on my
Instagram.
And then what else?
Yeah, I have different on mywebsite, different workshops and

(01:17:00):
things.
And then I also have amentorship program, and this is
designed for holisticpractitioners that would like to
incorporate the GNM frameworkinto their current modality.
So, you know, say, if you're,you know a nutrition coach,
right, how can you incorporatethis you know beautiful body of

(01:17:21):
knowledge in this framework andhelp people?
Um, you know, with your whatyou're good at, with what you're
passionate about, but in a waythat's like the way that you're
relating to it is totallydifferent and the way that
you're coaching your clients isgoing to be totally different.
Um, when you incorporate thisframework cause, what a lot of
people people, when they learnGNM, they're like, oh well, does

(01:17:44):
this mean I just have to likequit what I'm doing?
Like what do I do now?
Like they're caught in this,like existential crisis, like I
don't feel good about continuingto coach in the way that I'm
coaching, for example, but likeI want to integrate GNM, but
like I feel kind of stuck, Idon't know how to do it, and so

(01:18:06):
that's where I you know um Ithat's what I'm most passionate
about is really helping um, yeah, helping practitioners.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Well, you are the bombcom, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
This was such a great conversation.
I absolutely love it.
Before we hop off, what is,what is your human design
profile type?
What are you?

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Actually, this is so crazy.
I am getting my chart readtomorrow by a friend of mine.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
Stop it Okay.
Well, you'll have to keep usupdated, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
But I know, I know I'm a generator and I know I'm
five one, whatever that means.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Okay, we know what that means, but we're going to
let you find that out tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
That makes a lot of sense too.
Um, how can people find you onInstagram?

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Oh yeah, oh, it's AJ Puccione.
Okay, so I'm going to yeah, I'mnot going to spell it out yet,
just link it up.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Yeah, we'll link it all and thank you for your time.
Thank you for what you're doing.
I love the way you educate andfor our listeners.
Stay curious, be open and we'llsee you guys on the other side.

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92 | Healing Through German New Medicine (with Abigail Puccioni)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}92 | Healing Through German New Medicine (with Abigail Puccioni)