94 | From Opioid Addiction to Healing Through Ibogaine (with Talia Eisenberg) - See You On The Other Side

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, so where are you guys located?
Thank you for having me on theshow.
I was watching, looking at someof your posts and listening to
some of your prior podcasts.
I'm very grateful we could dothis.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
We are too.
We're in Louisville, kentucky,yeah, so Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Louisville.
Wow, yeah, kentucky.
I just spent a bunch of timethere, as you guys probably know
, over the last couple of years,well, or over the last few
months, well.
So we have been involved sortof behind the scenes with the
Kentucky Ibogaine Project.
I don't know if you knew aboutthat?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I do know about that.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I was able to testify in front of the Opiate
Abatement Commission on behalfof Ibogaine and why we should
unlock opiate abatement fundingfrom the Sacklers and Purdue and
some of these biggerinstitutions that are
responsible for the causing partof the opiate crisis.
So I've been to Kentucky likemultiple times in the last year.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Okay, so next time you could come to.
Kentucky, we would love to meetyou.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Are you familiar with the Kentucky Harm Reduction
Coalition?
Yes, we met with them.
That is like insane.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that.
That's important work.
Well, sadly, it was killed,this abatement fund in Kentucky,
because of the new attorneygeneral there who is, I mean, we
don't have to go in detailthere, who is, I mean, we don't
have to go in detail but thetruth is that they are in bed
with the powers that be andSuboxone makers and the

(01:32):
university in Kentucky.
So they didn't really want thisto happen and they want the
funding to go more towardsSuboxone and other forms of you
know, I can't knock Suboxone.
It's definitely saved a lot oflives, but it also has harmed a
lot of people and the truth iswe need other alternatives, like

(01:52):
Ibogaine in a sort, in acontext that is, you know, with
preparation and integration inKentucky would have been
incredible for the everydayworking people.
You know coal miners I mean.
What's happened there is worsethan anywhere in the US in ways
related to you know, these arepoor people that are uneducated
and the pharmaceutical companiesbasically came in and you know

(02:15):
they became addicted and nowhave no options in life.
It's very sad.
So that failed the KentuckyProject, but now it's being
taken to many other states, theblueprint of what was created,
what we worked on in Kentuckywith lawyers there and other
great leaders and politicians.
Now we're looking at Ohio andNew Mexico and other states.

(02:37):
So that's exciting.
But just a little backgroundbefore we talk.
Yeah, that's what a small world.
But Kentucky is the catalystfor this, I know I feel like we
need to include that in thewe're not going to edit all of
that out.
We can talk about it briefly,or you want to just edit that.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
We might just edit that for sure.
Yeah, I mean, let's just goahead and get started.
So, talia, I found Beyond onTikTok and I am so glad that we
have been connected with you.
You are the co-founder ofBeyond.
Is it Abogaine Treatment Center, or how do you?

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah and that's with your husband.
Yes, okay, we co-founded Beyondabout three years ago and this
is a technology that helped meabout 15 years ago so a long
time ago to break free fromintergenerational trauma.

(03:37):
Really, a symptom of that wasan opiate addiction in my early
20s, which started with aroutine dental procedure, like
many people back then, beforethere was warnings around how
addictive these pills were.
I took it and I liked thefeeling.
It alleviated the anxiety Ifelt for most of my life, coming

(04:01):
from a family of Holocaustsurvivors my grandmother in
particular and yeah, I felt asense of relief and continued to
take it.
And at the time, you know,dentists were writing
prescriptions like it wasnothing.
You know now there's Netflixshows about this.
But back then, you know,pharmaceutical companies sort of

(04:25):
manufactured this for profitand even the inside of the
warnings there weren't no, anywarnings.
Basically there was, okay, thisis not addictive, this is not
so addictive.
And so back then, you know manypeople started that way,
everyday people.
I was living in New York City,I was in college, everything on

(04:47):
the outside looked great.
I had started like a little artgallery in the Lower East Side.
I had a thriving social life.
But yeah, I always felt thissort of anxiety also, like this
deeper sense at a young age ofwhat are we doing here?
What's the purpose?
Why are we here?
So I felt odd and left out.
I grew up in Omaha, nebraska.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Shut up.
I'm from Iowa.
Oh wow, yeah, it's like a twohour car drive to Omaha.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, that's incredible, my mom's from Cedar
Rapids.
So, yeah, and I discovered afriend of mine told me about I
had tried.
You know, over that two yearperiod I was blessed that my
parents were very worried andhad been to a number of the best
rehabs in the United States.

(05:39):
And you know something, Irealized that it was a brain.
Not, it was a brain disorder.
In a way, like I would alwaysneed an opiate, the post acute
withdrawals would kick in after30, 60, 90 days and I would end
up reaching for an opiate tocalm myself.
Greatly reduces or, for somepeople, eliminates withdrawals,

(06:08):
and that was the case for me.
I went and did Ibogaine in aless than savory manner and
facility, without coaching ortherapeutic support, but I was
blessed to find it and Iexperienced it.
It was a profound awakening onmany levels.
I saw my purpose here.
I was able to forgive thepeople that had harmed my

(06:31):
grandmother and many others.
I saw the human condition, thesuffering sort of how we always
evolve as a species, and all thewars throughout humanity, and
felt this internal battlebetween the light and the dark
in my body.
I thought I was going to die.
It was like I was being rippedup on the insides and then I
came to a place of complete loveand, amazingly, didn't have at

(06:57):
the end, didn't have thecravings that I'd always felt.
When you have, it's likeanything Many people can relate
to having an eating disorder oreven a need to pick up the phone
all the time.
Whatever it is, today, I didn'tneed to reach for an opiate
anymore and that was the senseof relief where I could actually
focus on healing and gettingbetter and recovery and treating

(07:21):
the underlying anxiety that Ifelt and treating the underlying
anxiety that I felt.
So then, I've, in the last 15years, launched onto a healing
path and have a master's inenergy medicine and have learned
how to work with that, or wentto Peru and worked with Shipibo
and did dietas with ayahuasca,or even my husband and I are

(07:42):
huge fans, of Course, inMiracles, and we went to Burma
and you know we've spent a lotof time meditating and studying
various forms of meditation, butfor me, ibogaine was the
catalyst, and you know, now Ihave children and have this
beautiful life really, and wasable to get an MBA in

(08:06):
sustainability.
You know, people, planet,purpose.
What can we do to give back butalso create a business, a
profitable business that helpsheal the world and helps people
in various ways.
And so my, my thesis in the MBAprogram was that one of the
best things that we can do toalleviate suffering and also

(08:29):
shift the planet and helpreverse climate change is to
become conscious and help othersbecome more conscious.
And so for me, that tool wasand is Ibogaine.
And so, basically, three yearsago, during the beginning of
this psychedelic renaissance, ifyou want to call it that and we

(08:51):
have an opiate crisis that'skilling a 747 airplane of people
a day.
It's a serious, it's the numberone killer under 40 in the US
and because there wasn't reallya lot of great Ibogaine
facilities on the planet, welaunched Beyond and what we

(09:13):
found is that it's not just atool for addiction.
It's a tool for rewiring yourthought patterns, shifting your
belief systems.
It works very well for PTSD, asthe recent Stanford study has
shown.
For veterans, it reduced PTSD,anxiety and depression by 80%

(09:38):
after one month, and even pastthree months three months.
And it's a tool being used bypeople like Joe Rogan and Tim
Ferriss, not just for those thatare in a severe crisis of
trauma or addiction, but alsofor personal growth, for focus.

(09:59):
We get many normal people thatare just seeking.
You know they might have it allon the outside right, but
they're.
They're questioning what?
What are my next steps?
What's my purpose for beinghere?
Reconnects you to your, yoursoul, essentially, and each
person has a different purpose,right, and it's sort of shows
you this GPS navigation for whatto do next in life.

(10:24):
So that's why we launched Beyond, and it's a series.
You know, ibogaine is one toolthat we use, but we have many
tools on site coaching, coldplunge therapy, somatic therapy,
meditation, um watsu watertherapy there's many forms.
It's sort of a buffet of toolsthat I've used myself in the

(10:47):
last 15 years and people aredeeply supported.
There's a lot of workshops thatwe have peer support and
coaching, and each person gets aworkbook to specifically target
their unique reason for comingand come out of the process with
many insights and the abilityto apply the insights that

(11:09):
they've gained from theirexperiences to their everyday
life when they go home.
And the coaching continues.
There's one-on-one coaching andthere's weekly free coaching
for all alumni continuing, andso that's part of what we do at
Beyond, holy shit.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
I know, I know Like you just answered our entire
list of questions, so let me Iwant to back it up because for
our listeners who may be new, orto psychedelics, I feel like we
speak a lot to people who arelike just dipping their toes in
to psychedelics.
I feel like we speak a lot topeople who are like just dipping

(11:47):
their toes in.
Ibogaine is um a psychedelicthat we we looked into or we
talked about or we we realizedwhat it was, the power of it.
When we saw, like the LamarOdom um documentary, he did
ketamine first and then he wentand did Ibogaine treatment and
then we were, we heard, likewait a minute, ibogaine is the
most powerful psychedelic in theworld.

(12:08):
We thought it was ayahuasca,like there's something bigger.
So started doing the deep diveinto that and can you explain to
us what it is and what?
Maybe like a typical process orlike what a journey through
Ibogaine looks like, like whatit is and what it does?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Sure.
So Ibogaine is derived from anAfrican shrub called Iboga.
Iboga has more alkaloids thanjust Ibogaine alone, but
Ibogaine is what has beenstudied by researchers and it's
a purified form of IbogaIbogaine.

(12:52):
So it does come from.
You know it's been.
Iboga has been used by tribesin Africa for thousands of years
.
One of the main tribes is theBwiti tribe and they use it to
connect with ancestors, forrites of passage, for insights,
sort of like.
How in our society people havebar mitzvahs or bat mitzvahs or

(13:15):
wedding rituals.
They use it to go inward andconnect and to shift life.
Connect and to shift life, toshift, you know, shift into
different gears of their life.

(13:37):
Ibogaine is used more in theWest in a clinical setting.
So at Beyond, I think we'vedone a great job of balancing
clinical with spiritual aspects,ritual aspects.
Because Ibogaine has cardiacrisks, it needs to be used in a
setting with trained physiciansand nurses who understand
cardiac care.

(13:57):
So all of our treatments aredone in a.
We say we have the world'ssexiest ICU, so there's
beautiful lighting and scenes ofthe jungle.
But there is, and the lightsare dimmed and not many people
would notice this, but there isa crash cart and people are

(14:18):
hooked up to electrolytes suchas magnesium during the whole
treatment, which lasts around 12hours.
And now we have about eight.
We just hired a few more eightfull-time physicians and almost
20 nurses on staff, coupled withshamanic coaches and breathwork

(14:42):
guides and other facilitators.
Right, so our nurses aretrained in clearing the space
and Palo Santo and mindfulnessand breathwork, but they're also
able to reduce any risk thatcould occur.
Now, if Ibogaine is used in amedical setting and the team the

(15:06):
clinical team is well-trained,the risk is very low because we
have a whole pre-admissionsprocess where everyone is
checked out and there's aprocess for reviewing your
history, of course, and then,when you arrive on site, there's

(15:27):
lab work liver enzymes aredrawn, we look at people's, we
do EKGs, and that occursregularly and during the
Ibogaine treatment.
So people feel very safe, sothey can let go of their body
and expand their mindessentially and try to get to
the root cause of their body andand expand their mind
essentially and try to get tothe root cause of their

(15:48):
suffering.
And that's what we assistpeople in doing.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
We have.
So we have talked a lot about.
For us, mushrooms have been ourcatalyst, it was, it was the
thing that we did where it justit just clicked.
What is it about the medicinethat is like it's so profound
and because it is, it sounds somuch like and we've done
ayahuasca too and that was veryintense and it was, you know, a

(16:16):
three-day experience.
What is it about Ibogaine?
That's like so intense and it'sso long so intense and it's so
long.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
So Ibogaine works on more aspects of the brain than
any other psychedelic.
It's also known as thepsychedelic that uniquely goes
into people's memory banks, ifyou will, and one can argue that
our whole identity is made upof memories, right, who we are
as a person, our ego, if youwant to say that comes from our

(16:53):
experience in childhood, or whatwe've, what we have acquired in
this life, or whatcertifications we've acquired,
or who are, what we do for work,who our kids are, who our
husbands are, who ourex-boyfriends were Our
identities are linked to that.
So if people are strugglingtoday, it's usually because

(17:15):
they're projecting their past,or if there's been trauma or
heartache, they're having a hardtime being purely present,
right, because their ideas ofright now are informed by their
past memories.
So Ibogaine, uniquely, is ableto go through people's memories

(17:35):
from the past and I'd like tosay, like a computer of sorts
with many windows open, it cango through and defrag or clean
up these memories.
You don't forget the memory of,let's say, you had a traumatic
childhood and your father wascruel.
You remember the memory, butthe fuse and the energy of the

(17:56):
memory is no longer there and,unlike maybe with psilocybin or
ayahuasca.
You can find a new perspective,but you're able to release the
memory in a different way andyou feel a lightness because of
that.
So that's one aspect.
Another way that ibogaine isunique from psilocybin or other

(18:16):
ketamine or other psychedelicsis that it promotes a protein in
the brain, and it's the onlynatural occurring substance on
the planet to do this.
It's called glial derivednootropic factor, gdnf, and that
is the protein that you know.
You see how joyful kids arefrom the age of zero to seven.
That's the protein thatproduces creativity, joy, a love

(18:40):
for life that we lose over time.
So that is unique.
And it's also unique in thefact that and you can put this
for your viewers Gul Dulin, aresearcher out of Berkeley.
She proved that Ibogaine is thelongest lasting in your system
of all psychedelics.
So it continues to promoteneuroplasticity for up to three

(19:01):
months, whereas with.
So it continues to promoteneuroplasticity for up to three
months, whereas with.
She has this great chart itshows ketamines out of your
system the fastest, I thinkwithin a few days or a week.
Ayahuasca after that and someother everything else but
Ibogaine.
Because of this GDNF and theneuroplasticity to create new
habits.
It stays in your system for upto three months.

(19:24):
So, like I've used Ayahuasca anumber of times, you have these
deep insights.
It's very profound.
It's DMT.
It's different.
Iboga or Ibogaine doesn't havethe DMT, but you have these
profound insights.
You feel connected to theuniverse.
But maybe a couple of dayslater you have trouble
integrating them and you seepeople going back for ayahuasca

(19:44):
a lot and they have a hard timebringing what they learned, or
believing what they learned,into their daily 3D reality,
whereas with Ibogaine it's mucheasier to bring insights into
your everyday life Because ofthat neuroplasticity and because
it stays.
It converts to something callednoribogaine in your liver and

(20:04):
that is metabolizing throughyour system and because of that
you have months to take theinsights and take action.
So people feel it's a naturalantidepressant and people wake
up.
They're able to create newhabits it's known as the habit
interrupting medicine and ourthoughts become our habits,
right, our actions.
So you're able to create newhabits.

(20:25):
You're able to meditate in themorning if you want that.
You're able to not react toyour husband or your children or
your boss and shift the waythat you do things, whether that
is for a behavioral addiction,a chemical addiction or just
creating a new mindset in lifefor everyday people.

(20:45):
So that's how this medicine isunique, and so we see people not
needing to come back.
If they do come back, it'sbecause it's you know, a year
later typically, and it'sbecause they want to reach a
much deeper level and in thattime they've changed so much.
You know, we have people whoare a mom who might drink too

(21:08):
much wine at night, they're highfunctioning and they have their
own little company or whateverit is.
But then they'll come back ayear later.
They'll have stopped drinking.
That's not an issue at all, butthey want to figure out what
they should be doing with theirtime now, or they're, you know
they're.
They feel, um, for the mostpart very alive, but they have
some other questions.

(21:29):
So, um, yes, to answer yourquestion, it's not.
It's it's much different andit's hard to compare it with any
other psychedelic.
And the other way that it'sdifferent is that it's more of a
lucid dream state.
When you're on it, you're veryaware of you are where you are.
Ibogaine has a bad reputationbecause I think it's been used

(21:50):
for opiate addiction for manyyears, and when people are
coming in in that space, theymay not have looked at aspects
of their lives for years, right,because they've sort of been
numb and they haven't been ableto process emotions, and for

(22:11):
them it can be scary.
But for others who are alreadydoing this work, I think for
your audience you know, you'realways aware of where you are,
you know your name, you know whothe staff is, you're bonded
with them.
It's not like DMT where you'recompletely gone, or heavy doses
of psilocybin, and you're ableto actively pull up issues and
look at them and heal them, andso there's much more of an

(22:32):
ability to work with themedicine that way as well, even
though you know the visions arelike four hours and the insights
are longer than that and makeup the rest of the time, you're
very much able to work with itand it's, yeah, more malleable,
I would say.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
I think we've shared that chart before, where it
correlates to the duration ofthe journey as well.
So, like because ketamine isonly like an hour long journey,
that's why the results are less,not less, effective.
I know it's like a really greatmedicine for a lot of people,

(23:10):
but it doesn't last in yoursystem as long.
That window of opportunity tochange isn't as long, which is
why I see a lot of people kindof getting stuck continuing to
do ketamine, like every fewweeks or every few months like,
and not really finding whatthese other substances would be

(23:31):
able to give them.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm like,listening to you talk about this
, I really thought that this waslike a medicine that you know
was for addicts or extreme PTSD,um, or TBIs.
And now I'm like do I need todo?

Speaker 2 (23:51):
we need to, that's literally what I was thinking.
I'm like, how do we go and dothis?
Because I so I did a mushroomjourney this summer and I've
just had a hard time likeunderstanding kind of what it
means and integrating it intolike my everyday life.
What you were just saying, soexactly what you're just saying,
so like this is it's justreally fascinating to me.

(24:13):
And we interviewed vets and youknow a lot of a lot of their
veterans have have gone and doneIbogaine treatments, but a lot
of the stories we have heardit's like what Leah said there
was there was alcoholism, therewas, you know, drug addiction,
there was TBI, so like we didn'teven know, like if we were

(24:36):
candidates of it and it's.
It's a thing where, you know,psilocybin has helped us a lot
with our depression and ouranxiety and our trauma.
But I don't know if I speak forus both.
I feel like we both still havea lot of questions on what we're
supposed to do, what we'remeant to do, what our purpose in
this life is, um and so, yeah,this is just this is, I'm like,

(25:00):
struggling to find words, causethis is kind of not at all what
I expected this interview to be.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, well, you're at how you two, you know, can come
when, whenever you're ready.
We can, we can work.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Oh, we're ready.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
For example, there was a woman with us last week
who started a well-known companyin the fitness space and by the
time she left us, on day six,she was like I need to sell my
company in two years from now.
You know she had burnout.
I need to sell my company intwo years from now.
I want to have a child after,in a couple more years, and then

(25:35):
I just want to be, you know, aguide and a coach after that.
So she had a whole plan forwhat she wanted to do and she
feels so great.
She's able to sleep for thefirst time in a long time.
She has more energy, she hasmore focus.
She has investors lined up.
It's only been like a weeksince she left.
Yeah, it has gifts for everyperson that comes, that's for

(25:59):
sure.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
It's almost like with what we've done.
There's lessons there and youkind of have to like interpret
them, you know, with your ownperception, with your own life.
This seems more clarifying thananything.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yes, I would say Iboga or Ibogaine is very direct
.
They say it's like a sterngrandfather.
So this is what you need to doand this is how to do it.
You can ask it questions andthey're very practical answers
that come back sometimes withnot a lot of um, not a lot of
story behind it.
Just do this, do this, do this.

(26:35):
And that is very helpful forpeople because I know, with
ayahuasca, like I wasn't, youknow, I had a vision once that
maybe I was molested and it tookme six months to figure out,
but it was more of a metaphor.
I was emotionally molested andthere was codependency, but the

(26:57):
vision I saw was very much likemolestation, but it actually
wasn't.
It was more emotional ownershipby a family member, but it took
me months to figure out.
And I think that happens a lotwith you know some of these
medicines and that can beconfusing for people.
That's an extreme example,obviously, but they have visions

(27:19):
.
Oh, another time ayahuascashowed me that my brother was
going to commit suicide.
Or it didn't show me, it showedsomebody else in the room and
they came up to me afterwardsand were scared to tell me and
they said it was going to happensoon and the truth was months
later he had a complete shift inconsciousness.
I think you guys had him on theshow, actually, zev, did you

(27:39):
have him on the show, or maybenot?
Maybe I'm confused.
That was another show, but lax,I think.
Soul purpose for many, nooffense to those that are in it.

(28:06):
And then a few months later heactually did have a death of
that old self and he went toschool to be a therapist, found
these medicines prior to thatand has now shifted into a whole
new life path.
So sometimes it's a metaphorand it's not so literal and
people have trouble with that,whereas I feel in general

(28:30):
Ibogaine is more direct andliteral, so that can be helpful
too.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Well, and it sounds like, because it's like when you
take psilocybin, when you takeayahuasca, you are just truly
like surrendering to theexperience, Whereas with
Ibogaine it almost sounds likeyou're able to kind of like work
with it.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
You can co-create with it, that's true.
I mean, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
You tell me.
I'm asking.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, you can co-create with it more and you
know few.
Some people don't have thevisions they want to have, but
they always get the benefit.
I always see people getting thebenefits afterwards.
Some people do have reallystrong minds and don't want to
let it in Um, but they still getall the.

(29:17):
You know the GDNF properties.
It's still working in theirliver for months after, so they
feel great.
But it's still working in theirliver for months after, so they
feel great.
But and they get the insightslater.
And that's a small percentage.
I just want to.
I want to be careful because Ithink during this psychedelic
renaissance, if you will,there's been too much about how
great all these things are andnot enough about some of the

(29:37):
challenges and struggles.
But I think for the most partI've seen everyone gets benefits
afterwards and it stays withyou for so long.
You know they say like it takes30 days to create new habits.
You're able to create newhabits while it's in your system
and change old habits.
But, yeah, some people it'srare they have trouble

(29:59):
surrendering and letting it inand therefore may not have the
visions they want to see.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
But the benefits are there.
So, like with psilocybin, we wetry to do it like every year
when we feel like we're we'regetting disconnected from
ourselves.
You know that's when we'll belike okay, like I, I'm ready for
the medicine with Ibogaine.
You know, if I can ask you,like, how many times you've done
it?
Or is it something that peoplecome and do every year?

(30:28):
They or they, they feel good,they like what's.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, what's typical with that?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Typical.
I don't see a lot of peopleneeding to do it more than once.
In general they get so muchfrom it.
But sometimes, as I said, ifthey you know, if people are
coming in with severe trauma, itdepends where they are right.
I'm not like I believe thatit's just a spectrum.
We're all.

(30:55):
We're all coming foroptimization in a way.
But there's some people that arehave more trauma and have, I
mean, in some way we're alladdicts.
I mean we're addicted tofeeling good, we're addicted to
the phone, we're addictedwhatever it is, we're addicted
to our thoughts.
But then there's some peoplewho have alcohol issues or

(31:15):
relationship codependencies andthey're just having trouble
functioning.
It really does deep clearing on, like the first or second
layers, if you want to call itthat, and then they feel like
they've had such atransformation that maybe a year
or two later they want to comeand go deeper and they're in a
completely different place.
As I said, for others that havealready done a lot of this work,

(31:38):
they might not need to do itagain, you know, and it is
costly, right, and that'ssometimes criticism that we get,
that it is costly, but you haveto remember we have a whole, we
have a huge medical team andstaff and our overhead is very
high.
So, and people never say, well,I thought that was a rip off.

(32:00):
When they leave, they're likeGod, that was worth what you
know, way more than than what wepaid, what we got, so, um, and
then there's yeah, there's thepeople that come more for
optimization and um.
You know, sometimes they dowant to come back later if they
need to Um, but they're alwaysin a different place and it
works so well that they'rewilling to come back and they

(32:22):
want to come back and do more umand get more answers and create
new, higher, better quality oflife.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Yeah, so let me take this back to addiction, if I can
.
Um, I don't know how much rehabfacilities cost.
I'm sure it's a range of youcan go from low to extremely
high.
I'm bringing it to this becauseI have someone who has a loved
one who they struggle withheroin used to be opiates and

(32:56):
medication and it's just theyare constantly sending this
person to different rehabfacilities.
I mentioned Ibogaine once andtheir response was no, they have
such an issue with addiction.
They would find a way to useIbogaine as a drug and I'm like

(33:18):
I don't think that's how thatworks.
I don't think that's how thatworks.
Um center a few articles, but Ithink that there is this like
big stigma around, like how canyou get someone sober from from
drugs?
How can you?
How can you do that withanother substance?

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Um, and to my, to my like, I guess, for me, I'm like

(33:58):
well, you're already spendingall of this money on these
treatment centers and theserehab facilities every year that
aren't working.
What do you have to to 30 or 40rehabs over 10 or 15 years?
And it's a revolving door.
The problem with rehabs, I meanGod bless them.
In some ways it keeps peoplefrom killing themselves and

(34:19):
overdosing, so that's good, butit doesn't typically get to the
core of the issue, which, in myperspective, from studying this
for so many years now, is aspiritual malady.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
You're going to have to.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
That was our head of pre-admissions.
How do I?
Okay, sorry, so we're going tohave to edit that part, but in
my, you know it, at the coretypically is this belief of
unworthiness and a disconnectfrom your higher self.
Whatever your beliefs are andthat's different for everybody
it's a spiritual malady, a void,trying to fill this hole by

(34:58):
filling it with, you know,external means, whether that's
drugs, sex and food, whatever itis.
So this revolving door, thisrehab, you know, yes, insurance
covers part of it, but ittypically doesn't provide a
deeper sense of an awakening andit doesn't physiologically

(35:21):
interrupt the addiction.
Right, these are the two thingsthat's amazing about Ibogaine
and unique when paired together.
So people are typically put onsomething like Suboxone and we
get people all the time who areon Suboxone and they feel dead
inside.
Yes, they're not dying, they'renot doing fentanyl or using

(35:42):
prescription pills, but theydon't feel like living either.
So Ibogaine has the ability toreconnect you to your purpose.
It's a plant medicine.
It connects you to the earthand your higher self while
resetting.
You know your various receptors, your opioid receptors.
It works on serotonin, dopamineand your other elements as well

(36:03):
.
So that's how it's unique andyou know people have said how
can you cure?
I mean, I went to AA for yearsafter I did Ibogaine.
Ibogaine was my catalyst andthen I needed a daily program
that taught me meditation, thattaught me how to look at my own
part.
You know, a big part ofaddiction is resentment, right,

(36:24):
and you blame everybody else butyourself.
Everyone's the victim or no,you're the victim and everybody
else is the perpetrator, and youlose your power in that right.
So these medicines and aprogram like AA or some people
hate AA, and that's fine too.
Everybody has a different pathbut something like that puts you
back in touch with your corepower, right, and you go from

(36:48):
victim to empowerment.
And for me, I think I'd be deadwithout Ibogaine, because I
wasn't on board with 12-step atthese traditional rehabs I
thought, you know, I felt likeit was cult-like and I was
following the masses.
And only until I did Ibogainehad the clarity to see that
12-step isn't all bad.

(37:09):
You can take what you need andleave the rest.
As they say there Was I able toactually sit in those meetings,
find connection with a fewlike-minded women and be of
service to others, and so thatreally helped me.
But the idea that Ibogaine isaddictive I've heard that before
.
It's the opposite.
It's not something you want todo all the time, even different

(37:31):
from ayahuasca, because forsomebody coming in for addiction
it is a grueling process, thephysical detox of it.
It's not something where ifyou're an addict, you say I'll
just keep doing Ibogaine everytime I get addicted.
No, you have to look at hardparts of yourself that you've
been avoiding and that can beharder than getting re-addicted

(37:53):
to opiates.
And so for me, I never wantedto do Ibogaine again for
addiction.
It showed me all the ways I wasselfish, all the ways you know.
It was very challenging andthank God I've been able to work
through a lot of that now, butI never want to go back to that
again and I never want to harmmyself again in that way and put
poison into my body.

(38:13):
That's what it showed me how Iwas poisoning myself, and that
message and the physiologicalreset at the same time of not
having the desire, not havingthe craving like that in itself
is it was remarkable.
So I mean, I'm loved, I'm opento speaking to anybody just in
sharing my own experience andyou know hundreds and hundreds

(38:35):
of others that have come throughfor dependency issues.
It is something that is highlyeffective as a tool.
It is not a magic bullet.
You have to do the workafterwards to maintain it, but
it gets you way beyond most ofthe post-acute withdrawals and a
lot of the other challengesthat you might have with a

(38:55):
traditional rehab.
Sometimes you need to find anew way and seek a new way, and
that's one way that Ibogaine isvery useful.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
I'm really glad you said that about the magic bullet
thing, because I do also thinka lot of times people are
looking for that one thingthat's going to cure or fix
what's broken.
So with that we do a lot oflike preparation and intention

(39:26):
work before we usually do anyother psychedelic.
What does the process look likewhen someone's coming in for
addiction or whatever Like howdo you prepare them mentally and
physically for what they'reabout to go through?
Because I think that that'ssomething that, like not a lot
of people understand either.
You're sitting here talkingabout how, like, how awful your

(39:47):
journey was, but then how, like,towards the end, it was like
this beautiful, like lovingexperience.
So many people hear thenegative and they're like, I
don't want to do that.
Why would you want to dosomething that would like show
you how awful you're being toyourself?
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, and I think I accidentally didn't answer one
of your earlier questions, whichwas how many times I've done
Ibogaine.
So the first time was for aserious addiction, when I was 22
years old and didn't know who Iwas and was very lost and that
was tough.
And then I've used it two moretimes in the last 15 years,
since Three or four years afterthat I was in this very

(40:27):
codependent relationship and Ineeded to look at my
relationship with men and myfather and that was incredibly
illuminating.
It showed me I had tophysically move from New York
City, away from this man andaway from my father, who I love.
I love my father very deeply,but there is some there was not
anymore some really deepcodependent issues there that I

(40:49):
had, you know, then recreated inrelationships with men.
So I moved, ended up moving toCalifornia and now my
relationship with my dad is muchdifferent and of course I let
go of this.
This person I was seeing and myrelationship with my husband
today is very real and very, youknow, equal and beautiful.

(41:12):
So that was a profoundexperience and much different
than the first experience, right, because I was in a different
place, my consciousness was in adifferent place and I was more
open to receiving answers andmaking changes and it was easier
and I knew how to navigate themedicine and I had more wisdom
and I came in, you know, notaddicted to anything chemically,

(41:34):
so.
And then the third time wasabout two and a half years ago
with one of our lead nurse.
She was in the bed next to meand I had just had, you know, I
had a.
I have two children.
It was after having anotherchildren.
I had some post child afterhaving my first child, had some
postpartum issues, had to go onSSRIs actually and you know, I

(41:58):
know some people knock SSRIs inthis space, but they are helpful
for acute situations whenneeded or you can't judge people
.
Maybe they need them for lifeand that's fine too.
But I felt a sort of numbnessbeing on, I think, lexapro and
Prozac After a year.
It helped me get out of theditch, but I wanted to get off
of them.
And Ibogaine has proven to be areally great reset and our

(42:23):
clinical team and others helpprepare people before the
titrate off or people work withtheir you know psychiatrists to
do so and then it provides avery, very profound reset,
whereas you know it can be veryhard to get off of SSRIs, but
Ibogaine is good for that, sothat was helpful.
It also helped me with someother issues I had around fear

(42:44):
and death, you know, and showedme why I had so much to live for
and how I was also burnt outfrom building beyond and also
trying to be a mother, and ithelped me.
I think it helped reset, sleepand did a bunch of various
things, so that was more foroptimization the third time.
So, to answer your question,I've used it in different ways

(43:05):
at different points in my life,with reverence, and I think
about it a lot before.
Do I really want to do this?
Why am I doing this?
And, to answer your lastquestion, that sort of leads
into that.
So, yeah, we have a process.
So people come to us.
There's an admissions process.
We personally match each personwith a coach.

(43:25):
We have about eight coachesthat we work with.
Each one has, of course, usedIbogaine themselves to heal, so
they know what they're talkingabout and they can.
They have used it for variousthings.
So some coaches have used itmore for burnout or optimization
.
Other coaches have used it morefor had severe trauma.
We have veterans too.

(43:46):
We're launching a wholeveterans program coming soon.
We've treated a number ofveterans but we haven't had a
specific veteran program and forother first responders, and
then, you know, of course, fordependency issues too.
So they'll people will nomatter.
People will be matched with acoach and they'll have two
sessions before they come andthat is extremely helpful in

(44:09):
understanding what they want toget out of it and why.
And then they'll arrive on siteand we have daily workshops and
a very thorough workbook aroundthat's tailored to each
individual, around what they'retrying to get out of this, what
they want to ask themselves,what they want to ask the
medicine, what they want to heal, and that is very powerful

(44:34):
because we've discovered thatpeer-to-peer support is very
useful.
So sitting in a group and beingable to talk through why you're
there and and beyond, unique inthat you know a lot of retreat
centers.
Everyone comes at all at the,you know, on the same day.
We're open 365 days a year andpeople are coming and going

(44:57):
every day.
So people arrive and they havea lot of fear, and that's normal
.
Ibogaine is a big medicine.
They're also very excited.
But to be able to see somebodyand meet somebody who's like you
, who's eight days ahead and hasalready worked with Ibogaine
and already worked with some ofthe smaller booster doses.
We call them secondary doses.

(45:17):
They see, oh wow, this isprofound.
I see the change in the personand I see that it's not so scary
.
So those are the groupworkshops.
People bring their workbooks,they fill out, you know one, you
know there's various activitiesthat are very useful.
One is like what are my gems?
What am, what am I good atdoing here in life?
And you know, you get thetraditional banker, who's

(45:40):
miserable, in their job andthey're able to say, well, I'm
an artist and or I love, youknow, making, um, I love making
things.
And well, you know, they leave.
And then they know that theyneed to spend more time, no
matter what, even though it'seasy to say normally, like with
your traditional therapist, I'mgoing on the weekends create
more art, or I'm going to starta company, um, that you know

(46:03):
works with videography anddancers or whatever.
And they actually go and do itafter the Ibogaine and then we
help them architect like verypractical steps on how they can
do it.
So it's not just some pie inthe sky idea, that's just one
example.
So, and then, when thiscontinues to happen their whole
stay.

(46:23):
There's this daily workshop andworkbook and then, when they
leave, they continue to workwith this coach and then, as I
said, they have these weeklyalumni therapy and mindfulness
sessions that are free, ongoingfor alumni.
So those are ways that they can, you know, prepare and

(46:44):
integrate what they've learned.
And then many people connectand they stay in touch and they
start WhatsApp groups with alltheir fellow alumni and that
daily cold plunge sessions.
We have a cold plunge that'srunning all the time so people

(47:05):
can jump in, but we also havecoaches and fitness coaches
doing, you know, hiit and wehave, oh, daily massage.
That is very important.
We had a woman come, a Blackwoman, amazing woman, who was
adopted, had never connectedwith her family, did Ibogaine
and had a very powerful somaticmassage and released all of her

(47:29):
ancestors.
She was holding in her backlike from, you know, way back in
her lineage, like she wascarrying their suffering and she
saw slavery and she saw theseimages and that just shows you,
like, the importance of touching, you know, the importance of
the somatic, but also why peopleneed to try different tools

(47:50):
with these medicines.
So, whether it's talk therapy or, you know, coaching or somatic
or cold plunge, and these arethings people continue to do
after they leave and maybethey've tried them in the past,
but they've never been offeredin this way.
They continue to do a coldplunge every morning when they

(48:10):
jump in the ocean or they turnon the shower.
They continue to meditate, andwe do work with people like Tara
Brock.
Do you know her?
She's a great meditationteacher.
She's recorded we do some JoeDispenza recordings, just
depending on what people like,and so it's very customized.
But there's also a number ofhealing tools that can be

(48:33):
connected.
There's sound healing, there'scacao ceremony, so we try to
give every person something thatthey can take home and
integrate with ongoing so howlong are people there Like if,
if I mean you had us at humandesign and then you really got
me at that massage.
So people are with us.

(48:55):
It depends what's going on andthat's also customized.
But if they're coming more forhealth and optimization, they're
with us for six days.
If they're coming for severetrauma, they're with us for 10
days and if they're coming formore severe reasons I mean we've
had people stay with us 30, 40,50, 55 days and we're able to

(49:16):
get a lot done in that time.
And we have, essentially, forthe optimization person, maybe
they'll do one big Ibogaineflood dose and that's enough and
they'll know that it's enoughfor them.
They got everything they need.
But for others that have moresevere trauma or dependency
issues, we do other dosesafterwards that are smaller,
they're a couple hours andthey're able to go deeper and

(49:39):
get more Ibogaine in theirsystem deeper and get more
Ibogaine in their system.
So, yeah, it just depends andthat's something that people can
discuss with our pre-admissionsteam when they, you know, go
through the website and book afree complimentary call just to
see if it's a good fit.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Leah, you ready?
Yeah, are you hiring any humandesign readers?
No, just kidding.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, If you come down you can teach a class.
I mean, we would love that.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
So you mentioned something earlier, that about it
really helping with SSRIaddiction.
I don't think people realizethey can get addicted to SSRIs
Like it is like very, it's notthat.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I don't think people talked about and I don't think
people realize the thing andreally get addicted to anything.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
That's also true.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
You know what I mean.
Cause it's like she was talkingabout phones and and that
dopamine high and all like.
I feel like we live in a worldwhere we're all kind of addicted
to something and it's hard tonot be like like I have to, I've
recently had to put blocks onmy phone.

(50:42):
So it's like, from 10 to two,you are not on social media.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
From nine to seven o'clock in the morning you are
not on social media becauseotherwise it's just, it's so
thoughtless and but yes, ssris,definitely that's so, yeah, I
just want to say, well, the waythat our system is built not to
get too I don't know out thereor not, I don't know Capitalism

(51:07):
is built to make us want andcrave and think we're less than
that is the biggest disorder ofour time.
The system that we live in tellsus we're not enough and we need
these things outside ofourselves to feel better, and
that's what the dopamine squirtdoes for us.
Ssris, you know, can be veryhelpful, as I said, for people,
but, yeah, stop taking them andyour body needs them.

(51:29):
They are physically, there's aphysical dependency there and
for some people that's muchbetter than being, you know,
living a life of deep depressionand they need that and they
need that balance and that to beeven keeled.
But certainly, yeah, your bodybecomes dependent on it, and
that you know.
I remember.
I remember like going to Miamifrom New York and forgetting to

(51:51):
bring the pills and then twodays later feeling just very
down.
So that is real, that is verymuch real.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
So do you have to titrate off of these medications
before you do Ibogaine, or isIbogaine something that you
would be able to do onmedications and then titrate off
after?

Speaker 1 (52:14):
It depends typically on the medication.
But for most SSRIs you have toslowly titrate off and that's
something that our medical teamcan address with people.
Typically you titrate under thecare of a psychiatrist that you
work with and some peoplemicrodose.
I'm not telling people to dothat because legally we can't,

(52:34):
but that does help to get off ofSSRIs, I mean, or it does help
for some.
There's proof of that.
So that is a process forpreparation.
Ibogaine does havecontradictions,
contraindications with certainmedications, and our medical
team is really well versed inthat, better than me.
But yeah, you do have totitrate off over.

(52:55):
It depends on the medication.
We have a whole list of youknow what and how many days off,
and the titration really isabout people's own rate.
It depends how sensitive youare.
You know you don't want to goso quickly where you can't
function in your daily life.
So that's something to workwith a psychiatrist on.
But yeah, and then the resetthat it provides is very helpful

(53:15):
for most and some people doneed to get back on later, but
in general you know it's helpeda number.
I've seen it help a lot ofpeople get off for good, to be
honest.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
So yeah, and you're located in Cancun, Mexico.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Correct.
We're located in Cancun and Ilive here with my husband and
our kids.
We moved here because webelieve in this tool so much and
the work that is happening.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
When did you open the treatment center?

Speaker 1 (53:46):
We opened in 2021 and we opened with a few clinical
team members who have many, manyyears of experience in Ibogaine
and were able to help write ourIbogaine medical protocols.
So we had a lot of experienceon the team.
But Beyond itself, has beenopen since 2021.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
I feel like maybe I read this somewhere.
I could be wrong, but did itused to be a legal treatment in
the US and somehow was takenaway?
What are the legalities and whyis it only legal in some
countries and not others?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, sure.
So you know what happened inthe 60s and 70s with all
psychedelics.
I mean, they were all legal ata point, you see, with LSD and
the government was trying towork with it, the CIA, and they
all became illegal and withoutmuch research.
So people didn't I began veryobscure right.
They didn't understand what itcould do, its properties to

(54:49):
relieve addiction or help withsupport with PTSD.
So it was banned and for awhile, yeah, it was available in
Europe and it was used forfocus and in places it was also
used for sexual virality andother things, in small amounts,
I think.
In France it was calledLamberine.

(55:11):
Good to know.
There's a whole history onWikipedia you can look at.
But essentially, what happenedis this incredible man named
Howard Lotsoff discovered ityears ago after it was made
illegal.
He was, he happened to be anopiate addict and he was given,
it was given to him by somebodyand it he used it as a

(55:32):
psychonaut, just to have a trip,and he realized the next day
like wow, I don't have, I have.
You know, I'm not havingcravings and I'm not, I don't, I
, I have deep.
Essentially, it provides arapid detox for people I don't
have the sweating, shaking,barfing, um from coming off and
I don't want opiates anymore.
So then he launched on apersonal mission with himself

(55:55):
and some of his colleagues,friends, to treat other friends
and they were part of theunderground movement in the U S,
in Europe and started treatingother people, you know, in hotel
rooms, without doctors, beforeunderstanding really the cardiac
risk.
But he is the Western godfatherof this medicine, him and his
wife, norma, and he passed awaysadly.

(56:18):
But she's 85 years old and youknow, maybe that's something we
can offer people who listen tothis.
You know she's living onwelfare, sadly, and doesn't have
funds to pay for her apartmentand we try to help her out
monthly and there's a campaignthat was just launched to donate
money to her to help her livethe last few years of her life

(56:39):
in peace.
But we can share that link.
But that's an incredible storyand there's a film coming out
that our colleague, lucy Walker,she did how to Change your Mind
with Michael Pollan on Netflix.
We've talked with Lucy.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
We've talked with Lucy.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Oh great, she's a friend and she was just at
Beyond filming and she had herown treatment.
She's open to saying that atBeyond and she's making a film
now that is just wrapping up,called Of Night and Light.
You can also drop a link aboutthat and I think it was.
You know has been featured in abunch of indie film festivals

(57:17):
but it's not yet public.
It will be and that's about thestory of Ibogaine in the West
featuring Howard Lotsoff andthis whole story of how this
movement has snowballed and upuntil modern times and modern
clinics that have robust medicalcare and coaching and support
and veterans and PTSD, so notjust for addictions.

(57:38):
But that's an important thing tolook out in her film that will
be out soon, just on Ibogaine.
She didn't want to feature iton.
She Told Me how to Change yourMind because she thought
Ibogaine deserves its own filmof all the psychedelics.
So that that's really cool.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, that's huge.
So what are some other?
What are some likemisconceptions or myths that are
out there about?
You don't really hear about ita lot, so I feel like I don't
know any myths.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
And I feel like people who are newer to like
learning about psychedelicshaven't really heard much about
ibogaine.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Right, but are there any misconceptions out there
about this medicine?

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Well, the biggest myth is that it's just for
addiction, right?
Oh yeah.
I mean there's so many cases nowthat it works for, you know,
things like memory loss, thingslike nervous system disorders,
things like nervous systemdisorders, like central nervous
system disorders, likeParkinson's, tremors, you know

(58:42):
Lyme's it really is a medicinethat can heal so much because it
does affect so much of thebrain, I think and there's a lot
more research that's being doneWow, the fact that I think it's
worth sharing the link to theStanford study that just came
out.
That's very powerful to have DrNolan Williams at Stanford

(59:06):
studying this for PTSD andtraumatic brain injury.
We're seeing NFL players andwrestlers and people who have
severe TB and veterans, ofcourse, who have survived blasts
in the Middle East coming.
So it's not just a tool foraddiction, it is very profound

(59:27):
and it does last a long time inyour system and you can create
deep change.
So that's the biggestmisconception, I think.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I'm glad you actually brought up the Lyme disease
because I literally just sent avideo to Leah yesterday.
I was just in a Pilates classand I've got this we both have
this mushroom tattoo on our armand I like forget that it's
there.
And I'm just in class and thiswoman, random woman next to me,
she's like what's that mushroomfor?
And I'm just in class and thiswoman, random woman next to me,
she's like what's that mushroomfor?

(59:55):
And I'm like, oh gosh, she does.
I don't know if she's somebodywho knows anything about
psychedelics, but here we go andI and I, and so you know she's
like this 50 some year old woman.
And I told her I said, well,I've, I've found a lot of um
healing with plant medicine and,and mushrooms was the first

(01:00:15):
plant medicine that I use andnow I have a podcast about it
and she goes that's, that'sreally fascinating.
And I'm glad I'm sitting next toyou today in this workout
because my son has Lyme disease,um, and tomorrow is his last
ketamine treatment and he reallyit really hasn't done much for
him and it's it's Lyme diseasehas really impacted his quality

(01:00:38):
of life and he's done everything.
He's done pills and, but she'slike it's, he's 18 and he's,
he's, he's not the same personhe used to be, and we're just
trying anything and everythingto like get our son back, and so
, um, I will, we exchangenumbers, um, of course, and, uh,

(01:01:01):
I sent her the podcast, but Iwill have to send her.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
I know I'm going to send her this episode and your
information, because they aredesperate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
So yes, we're not exactly sure how it works for
Lyme, but there's a number ofanecdotes, even online, that she
can look at.
One of our advisors who's a PhD, he has Lyme and Ibogaine has
really helped him.
And I'm thinking of aindividual in his twenties who

(01:01:29):
is with us who ended up comingback with his dad because he
wanted his dad to have theexperience because it was so
profound.
He had Lyme's and it helped himand now he's going to medical
school and it's totally made itso he can function in the world.
I mean, that's an incrediblecase, but I think there's been
quite a number of them and we'restarting to publish more case

(01:01:50):
studies.
We now just hired a head ofresearch.
We collect all of our data.
I think it's like 187 datapoints per client.
It's all anonymous, of course,we don't use people's names.
But, yeah, we are starting todevelop these different case
studies for different symptomsand scenarios.

(01:02:11):
So we'll be able to report onthat more soon and you know,
using surveys, how much it'shelped them to what degree.
But I'd certainly be happy tospeak to this individual and
even connect her son with pastclients who it's helped.
We never know like it may work,it may not, but we've seen it

(01:02:31):
work.
We can say that it has a pretty, it's pretty useful.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, I will send her this episode and send her
y'all's way.
I think she's.
You know.
I think sometimes people get toa point where they're like
they're willing to do anything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
They're willing to try anything.
Yeah, that's how I was willingto try anything.
The traditional methods didn'twork and that's how we're able
to find new technologies that wecan bring to others in the
world.
So that's really cool, andthank you for your tattoo and
the fact that you're out in theworld and inspiring.
Especially, you guys are bothin Kentucky.
Yeah, yeah, unfortunately, Ilove that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
No, I was literally just having this thought.
Like she's talking about allthese different places.
I'm like God, we live in thewrong place.
But, as I was saying that, I'mlike you know, I think I live in
the right place because not alot of people hear about this
stuff here.
You may want to say that again,so it doesn't get edited Like
not a lot of people in Kentuckyare aware of these different

(01:03:29):
types of modalities and alsowhere we are.
Our region is like one of theworst off as far as like opiate
addiction and the crisis thatyou know we're having where we
are right now.
So this work is extremelyimportant here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Well, and we've kind of, with the podcast, we've kind
of become the spokespeople ofmushrooms and plant medicine,
because there really aren't manypeople who are, you know,
talking openly about this, andwe're two moms who are doing
that and it's, you know, in astate that's not necessarily so
progressive with this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Thanks, Thanks for doing that.
Yeah, I have sent.
You are in the right place.
I have spent some time as I saidin the before we started
recording, in Kentucky in thelast year working on this
Kentucky at Kentucky Ibogaineopiate abatement funding.
That didn't actually go throughfor, sadly, for political
reasons, the powers that be andbig pharma, but I spent time

(01:04:31):
there with locals and you know Idid go get my hair done and
nobody knew about Ibogaine andthe education that has come
through from the KentuckyIbogaine Project in Kentucky and
we've even had a number ofguests from Kentucky who
wouldn't have known about it isremarkable.
So it's great that you guys arethere and I myself am from

(01:04:53):
Omaha, nebraska, and never itwas a dream of mine that these
technologies and plant medicineswould come to the Midwest and
it's starting to happen.
So I was just in Omaha lastweekend and there was a massive
gathering festival forconsciousness, for climate
change, for psychedelics onLakota lands.

(01:05:14):
This very wealthy individualwho's from Omaha has launched
this project to bring peoplefrom all over the world.
I was with psychedelicresearchers and climate change
activists and such incredibleLakota people and Buddhist monks
and a monk from Bhutan and inOmaha, nebraska or an hour

(01:05:36):
outside of.
Omaha.
I never thought that wouldhappen and to see, like as a
little girl, my dream, I had togo out and find it.
I moved to New York, I lived inIstanbul and moved to Northern
California in the last 25 yearsand now here.
I always had to go find it andacquire these friends and people
.
And here I walk into this event, you know, and I'm running to
like 60 people, I know, but fromall over the world not

(01:05:59):
connected to Omaha, and I waslike, wow, it is true, all roads
, that's the.
You know, it's easy to be in LAor to be in New York and we're
in a bubble, but for it tospread to the middle America,
it's, you know, exactly, exactly, I think, what's needed.
So I'm glad you guys are thereand doing this work and I'm very
appreciative of that.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
Talia, thank you so much for all the information
that you shared today.
I hope we stay in touch.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
I'm genuinely interested.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Curious, you guys are welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
We can.
We can talk more about that andfigure out when and how and
let's do that and then maybe youcan share with your audience.
You know what your perceptionof Ibogaine was like and what
your intentions were, and youknow how you're integrating
afterwards and the insights, andthat would be really cool.
So, uh, we do have a programfor um people like yourselves

(01:06:57):
that want to come and share andshare authentically, um create
content and uh, yeah, we, wewould love that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
So we'll talk more about it.
Yeah, I'll email you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
Okay, thank you so much literally, for what you're
doing in the world and yourhusband for being the amazing
partner.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
We saw that connection, we saw that love
when he was helping you.
That was adorable.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
He's helping me.
Yeah, this was a vision of mine.
This is my purpose here on theplanet, and he understands that
he's the CEO and he's, he'sexecuting.
Really I can do a little bit,but he's, you know, he's devoted
.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
What's your human design?
What are you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Manifesting, I think, projector, oh you mean
generator no manifestinggenerator.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Manifesting generator .

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Do you know what your personality type is like?

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
your numbers.
I think I'm a six okay,interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Yeah, we're three, five.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
So like we are like the experimenters and then we're
meant to talk about what we'veexperimented with and the
lessons we've learned by what wedid, whether we fucked up or
did it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Good, you guys are doing that.
Send us any links that you have.
I clipped a few things so if Ican, I can find some.
You know websites that youmentioned and sites that you
mentioned and the GoFundMe forum Norma.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, and can you share how people can find you on
social media?

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Yeah, sure it's just beyond that.
U?
S, beyond us.
B E O N D.
No, why we don't ask why?
Why is not a spiritual question?

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Oh, I love that so much.
Okay, there's some meaning thatI was.
I was wondering why therewasn't a why in there.
I love that so much.
Thank you All right, and to ourlisteners, we hope you gained
so much out of today, cause weknow we did um, stay curious, be
open and we'll see you guys onthe other side.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
See you all on the other side, don't hang up the
great the great, beyond thebeyond.

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94 | From Opioid Addiction to Healing Through Ibogaine (with Talia Eisenberg)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}94 | From Opioid Addiction to Healing Through Ibogaine (with Talia Eisenberg)