August 15, 2023 • 54 mins
Founder and CEO of Kauai Farm Planning, Alex Wong shares from his expertise and experience rich perspectives on the challenges and solutions of attaining a 100% local agriculture economy.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources (CTAHR), and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Resources:
- Kauai Farm Planning Facebook Page
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Thao (00:00):
The views information or opinions expressed during the
(00:03):
seeds of wellbeing series aresolely those of the individuals
involved and do not necessarilyrepresent those of the
University of Hawaii College ofTropical Agriculture and Human
Resources, our funders, and anyaffiliated organizations
involved in this project.
Welcome to a seeds of well beingvoices from the field podcast,
(00:23):
featuring voices of Hawaiiagricultural producers for
Hawaii agriculture producers.
These podcasts are made possibleby a grant from the University
of Hawaii College of TropicalAgriculture and Human Resources,
also known as CTAHR. And theseeds of well being are so
project and is supported by agrant from the US Department of
(00:46):
Agriculture, National Instituteof Food and Agriculture, and the
Hawaii Department ofAgriculture.
Alexis Kerver (01:00):
Aloha and welcome back to the Seeds of Wellbeing
Podcast. Joining us today onVoices From the Field is Alex
Wong. Aloha Alex, welcome.
Thanks so much for being heretoday. So great to see you. How
are you doing?
Alex Wong (01:17):
Aloha. I'm doing good. I'm in the middle of
moving right now. Movingresidences, and my whole life,
my business Kaua'i FarmPlanning. Luckily, I'm able to
stay on Kaua'i but, moving issuch a hassle, especially when
(01:37):
you grow plants, and you farmand you have to relocate your
entire nursery. It's takes a lotof thinking and execution. And
anyway, I'm in the middle of alot right now.
Alexis Kerver (01:55):
Lot's of planning, too I could imagine.
Alex Wong (01:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis (01:59):
Are you switching climate zones?
Alex Wong (02:02):
I am, I am going from the south side to the east side.
Little bit higher elevation. I'mnot sure about the rainfall yet.
And the humidity. But in theline of what I do, those things
make a big difference with mytype of crop. But yeah, um,
(02:27):
thanks for inviting me. This hascome full circle now, hasn't it?
Alexis (02:31):
Yeah, this is full circle. Thanks for being here.
It's nice to have you back inthis capacity. You've served on
the seeds of well being projectfor over a year, almost two
years, I believe. So it's reallynice to have you back here. And
we're excited to hear some ofyour perspectives. Kaua'i Farm
Planning, you mentioned thattell us a little bit more about
(02:53):
your business.
Alex Wong (02:56):
Okay, so Kaua'i Farm Planning. It's the amalgamation
of everything that I've studiedas a student, and everything
that I've studied as a residentin the great state of Hawaii.
(03:18):
Living in that matrix also, as ahuman being, and a local
resident living in the kingdomof Hawaii. That's a different
thing altogether. And so it's acombination of my anthropology
background, my politicaleconomics background, my GIS and
(03:43):
geospatial analysis, geographybackground. My background as
somebody who did archaeology,and someone who studied Hawaiian
archaeology, a little bit at UHWest Oahu in Kapolei and
Hawaiian Studies at UH West OahuKapolei under Kumu Leilani
(04:05):
Basham and Cordy, Ross Cordy,archaeologists and
anthropologists. Also, this islike the inclusion of my
experience in agriculture. Youknow, growing up as a kid in
agriculture and aroundagriculture, and also in
(04:30):
agriculture as a professionalhere in Hawaii. I've worked for
the seeds, the soil waterconservation districts here on
kawaii and after that, I went tothe county and I worked for the
planning department. So I workedon the other side of the counter
for all those people, propertyowners, developers, architects,
(04:53):
engineers, like when you got toget permits, you know, and go
through the county process. Iwas on the zoning side As
opposed to the building, andpublic worksite. So taking all
that knowledge and also mypassion for culture and social
equity, kind of bring that alltogether. And we create quiet
(05:14):
farm planning. So quiet farmplanning my my goal is to help
every property owner includingthe state and the county to
utilize and maximize the fullpotential. With an agricultural
lens doesn't matter if it's onag zone property or not. You can
we can do it in urban zoneproperty and residential areas
(05:37):
and commercial areas as well.
But instead of just landscaping,grass, and your usual suspects
to grow crops, and consumableplants and food, consumers
consumable and also potentiallyscalable and sellable in order
(05:57):
to pay for your own rent, ormortgage, that's the that's the
main goal. smaller, smallergoals that I try and hit before
that it's just paper,miscellany, miscellaneous
utilities and expense, monthlyexpenses by agriculture, just no
matter how small or how big,every property has monthly
(06:23):
expenses, right. And so if wecould just start off with
farming by covering those costs,the anticipated regular costs
will go from there. Right? Justbreaking even, we'll go from
there. And then we can talkabout profit after that. But
every farmers first financialgoal needs to be just meeting
(06:45):
your bottom line covering allyour costs and breaking even
because that enough, and farmingis hard.
Alexis (06:54):
Do you find that that's not already a farmers startup
goal? To break even? No, no,
Alex Wong (07:02):
that that's that's the farmers cold. But the
problem is, is the farmer startsin the whole the matrix, the
system is rigged againstfarmers, and I don't care who
who has Oh, but we have grantmoney, we have this and that the
system itself is rigged againstlocal farmers. This is the only
(07:23):
farmers who the system is set upfor is the corporate the
corporation's corporate levelfarming that's subsidized by the
government, small scale farmingfamily farming that subsidized
and to the extent of pretty muchjust grant money. That's it, the
(07:44):
farmer has to carry thefinancial burden of essentially
everything else. And then withthe retailer, you know, once
they get it, they, they upchargeit, and their profit is just
simply by having a retail, youknow, final destination. But,
you know, the retailer doesn'tdo hardly any of the work. They
don't even have to go pick it upfor the most part, it gets
(08:05):
delivered. In most cases. Yeah.
So farming, you have to be superprecise, and super efficient in
your whole organization and yourwhole execution. And if you fall
out of that line, like there'sno buffer for you. It's a very
small room for error, especiallyin Hawaii, when there's so many
(08:28):
unpredictable factors. You know,the weather the high cost of
living, right, the, the thefluctuations and costs like,
like for gasoline oil, right,right. Any sort of machinery
equipment, like that stufffluctuates, lumber, costs, a
(08:49):
lumber fluctuates, we have tobuild anything, like farming is
expensive. And so my role nowhas become let's take all those
factors that affect us, not justthe factors that affect the
cultivation of plants oranimals, but the factors that
affect our entire supply chain.
(09:14):
And the culture and the placethat we live. Those things
matter to for your smallbusiness, especially farming,
Alexis (09:22):
like everyday things interconnected, all relevant.
Alex Wong (09:26):
Exactly. And those things get overlooked. Right.
When we talk about helpingfarmers, we don't talk about
housing. We just talk about oh,what what do you need for the
farm? We don't we don't look atthe rest of their life, that it
completely revolves aroundcultivation, like keeping plants
and animals alive. And that's avery hard thing to do. Because
(09:50):
we live in a society now wherenobody knows how to farm. It's
reversed it used to be,civilization was built on the
backs of farmers. Okay, and now,we've somehow flipped everything
on its head. And farmers don'tget no respect no more. Just
like teachers, right? It's thesame thing. It's, it's it's a
(10:13):
profession, and an occupation.
And it's a labor of love andpassion. People don't get into
the farming business. I mean,they don't get into farming, you
know, on a personal level tomake exorbitant amounts of
profit. That's not. That's nothow it's done. I mean,
(10:33):
corporations try. They try toget in agriculture because they
think that they can make moremoney because they're a
corporation, and they canautomate things and have the
economies of scale. But the factis, is that farming is it's
unless it's done locally, right,unless the carbon footprint
(10:58):
remains in a single geographicarea, right, as long as you're
not exporting ridiculous thingslike trying to send fish to Las
Vegas, Nevada, right? Oranything grown in California to
the Midwest, right? Where theEast Coast like, farming is not
(11:18):
sustainable right now. No,unless it's done. The Earth is
not flat, like Milton Friedmanhad wrote.
Alexis (11:31):
So let's talk a little bit more about the economic
structure. I'm curious to hearyour perspective on this, you
have so much insight, so I'mexcited to tap in. So you know,
our current economic structureseems to maximize globalization.
And, you know, there are somebenefits to being able to export
(11:51):
your crops to meet demandswhere, you know, where there
wouldn't otherwise be a strongdemand. But can you tell us a
little bit more about some prosand cons between globalization
and localization of food crops,just so we have a better
understanding? Of what you mean,you know, like, focus on local
what is that?
Alex Wong (12:13):
Yeah, so the idea is like, keeping the money in the
family, keeping the money in thefamily. That's, that's like the
heart of
Alexis (12:23):
creating generational wealth
Alex Wong (12:25):
generational on not just that, but like, what I
consider my family as mycommunity, right when I talk
about economics, so as long asyou know, Killer Mike, the
rapper has this really stupidshow on Netflix called Trigger
(12:46):
Warning with Killer Mike. And inone episode, he tries to live
black for like, five days,meaning he can only purchase
things from black ownedbusinesses. And he couldn't do
it. He couldn't do it, right.
And that idea like every time hesays black, or African American,
in that episode, you justsubstitute the word local.
(13:09):
Trying to buy local. Can you doit in Hawaii? Can you can every
transaction that you have everyday of the week? Right? Are you
supporting a local business or alocal producer that produced
that item? The answer for themost part, especially on Oahu,
is no. Yeah, so that's what I'msaying about keeping the money
(13:30):
in the family. How long can wekeep $1 bill in the local
community on Kauai, like forexample, on this island before
that dollar gets up and leavesKauai? That's the grassroots
economy. And the same thingneeds to happen with food we
shouldn't be growing things andsending them to California or we
shouldn't be growing things andsending them you know around the
(13:51):
world until we can feed our selffirst. And so, you know, when I
got into farming professionally,you know, me farming on Kauai,
my father, he quickly quicklylike questioned that. He said
"Why are you on Kauai? Why areyou finding on Kauai? The market
(14:14):
is so small." Like we got lessthan you know on any given day
right around 80-75, 80,000people on quiet right not
including the tourists I'mtalking about residents. Seems
like that you have a such asmall market like you're not
going to make any money. And Itold him well, first of all,
(14:35):
Kauai has not achieved feedingitself yet. All the restaurants,
all the houses, like they'llconsume food grown somewhere
else in the mainland, or likeinternational like South
America, Central America. NewZealand, Australia, China,
(14:55):
right. The foods flying in orbeing shipped in on a on a boat.
And so when we purchase thatfood, that's our money getting
up and leaving Hawaii. That'sour, our, our local residents
watering and feeding someoneelse's economy is what that is.
(15:17):
That on top of the carbonemissions for transporting that
food. It's ridiculous. And so,um, yeah, the first goal here on
Kauai is to, for all of us localKauai farmers, everyone farming
on Kauai, like I try and telleverybody I preach, don't look
at each other as competitionwhen you see another farmer in
(15:38):
the state of Hawaii or theanother farmer on your island,
they are not competition.
They're not competition untilthe entire island is pretty much
100% local grown in terms ofgoing to the restaurants and
going to the store for buy food.
Like until it's 100% localsource, you're not competition
with each other. Even at theeven at the local farmers
(16:02):
market, you might you may looklike you're competing for the
same population, the samemarket, the same people, right,
who are cruising the farmersmarket who come every week and
buy from the farmers market. Butthe fact is that thatʻs just a
little bubble of the economy.
Once you cover that demographic,you need to step outside of the
(16:24):
farmers market and realizethere's a the rest of the island
you got to feed that's notshowing up to the farmers
market. So
Alexis (16:31):
So is there is there communication between farmers
and what who's growing what andwhat demands they're producing?
I used to work in a producedepartment at a at a health food
store. And there were times thatwe would have an influx of a
certain of a particular crop,for instance, in herbs, let's
(16:52):
say they brought in a bunch ofeverybody's growing Basil and
Rosemary. And we'd have to turnaway farmers because we'd have a
surplus, often of particularcrops. So how do we prevent
that? Because those are issuesif we're looking for, you know,
to produce 100% Local, how do wemake sure that we're producing
(17:13):
the crops that we need to meetthe demands for and not
producing too much of oneparticular crop?
Alex Wong (17:19):
So, um, it's about the supply chain, right? And
having contingency plans, youhave plan A, right if if these
out, if this outlet is alreadyat capacity, then I have my
second outlet, I have plan Bplan C. You know, in in
business, you teach the you gotto have at least three outlets,
(17:42):
at least three, right? In orderto have a sustainable business.
You know, as a farmer, you haveto have three steady clients
that you service weekly or biweekly, every day
Alexis (17:58):
and thereʻs enough retailers out there that you can
have, you know, thosecontingency plans,
Alex Wong (18:06):
what I recommend for farmers and for me, like, you
know, the farmers market isgreat. The farmers market is
great, because that's where thecommunity is seen interacting
with the farmers. That's whereyou, you know, you basically
farm gate, almost, you're givingthe money directly to the
farmer, there's no middleman totake their cut. Yeah, the
(18:27):
farmers farmers market. AlsoFarmers Market is good because
if you want a lot of something,like for me, if I don't if I run
out of Bananas in my backyard,right, Because I eat a lot of
bananas. Choke bananas, like,because I eat smoothie almost
every day. So I get bananas inmy freezer, right. And so when I
(18:50):
go farmers market, if I'm out ofBananas, and I don't have a rack
ready on the tree, I'll take 3040 bucks to the farmers market
and I'll hand it to a farmer andbe like, give me as many bananas
as I can get for 30 bucks or 40bucks. And I tell him I'm going
to make smoothies I'm going tofreeze them. So they give me
like everything that's ripeeverything with the black spots
(19:12):
starting like they give me allof that because they know it's
going to be bad by tomorrowmorning. So like I do love the
farmers market but in terms ofbeing a business as a farm, I
highly recommend restaurants andfood trucks first as your main
(19:32):
clients. And then like you weresaying sometimes you get jammed
up because a restaurant or afood truck, they'll they'll come
into some produce, right?
Whether it's from like Waihataʻsor Sakis or, you know, Cisco
Foods. They're gonna get theircheap stuff that's imported from
the mainland that you can'tcompete with because it's $1.50
(19:52):
a pound. And you're gonna beyou're gonna be stuck with like
10, 20, 30 pounds of somethingthis week. What is taught at
GoFarm is that you always needto have a practice that will
extend the shelf life of yourproduce.
Alexis (20:13):
value added product
Alex Wong (20:14):
Whatever it is. Value added. Yeah, if you can jar it
if you can pickle it, if you canassault it if you can dry it for
me, like we got to grow thestaple crops. So, kalo number
one. So poi is a great way toextend shelf life. Just the corm
(20:34):
itself of Kalo last for a longtime if you keep it in a cool
dry place. But besides poi, andbesides you know, just steaming
it real quick, and you know,poke it and you know, just
pretty much or do some sort ofpaʻi ai, I like I like to flash
steam in the Insta Pot and thencut into fry shape. And throw
(20:56):
that in the freezer as fries.
Alexis (21:00):
It can also be grounded into a powder right, for flour?
Alex Wong (21:04):
Yeah, you can Yeah, yeah. Dried, dried and
re-hydrated with water. Butyeah, like we need to just focus
on stuff that is versatile,flexible, and has high, high
like protein calorie andnutrition content. And kalo is
that thing that you know whatthe Hawaiians eat. As long as
(21:26):
thereʻs a demand, yeah, as afarmer grow it, but you also
have to balance like, what isworth your time growing. And for
me, I'm not gonna get out of bedto grow anything for $1.50 a
pound. That's not happening.
Right? So for me, I got to dohigh value crops. And thatʻs
salad. Everybody needs saladgreens. Like, there shouldn't be
any
Alexis (21:49):
reason to buy a Costco bag from anywhere
Alex Wong (21:53):
Yeah, yeah, sure it's $5 a box or $5 a bag. But you
got to consider that it's beensitting on a boat for almost a
week. So by the time it hitsyour refrigerator, your icebox
at home, it's, it's starting togo bad. Yeah. Whereas if you buy
locally grown salad greens, likeit'll last a month, as long as
(22:13):
you keep it in the icebox, itʻlllast a month, just hit it with
some ice water. You know, justdunk it real quick, hit it with
ice water, shake it off, let itdry for a little bit and then
stuff it back into a plastic baginto the icebox and you're good
for like a month with localgrown lettuce. Basil, like who
(22:34):
buys imported Basil?
Alexis (22:36):
Pesto for that matter, I mean, you go to a grocery store
and you spend $13 on a jar ofpesto.
Alex Wong (22:44):
Basil is the easiest thing to grow. Like, first of
all, everyone should be grown intheir backyard. But yeah, local
grown basil. Should not bebuying imported basil, any sort
of like leafy green, greenonions, like none of that should
be imported at all.
Alexis (23:03):
So in addition to extending shelf life through
value added products, anotherchallenge we have here is the
way we eat, you know, its formany communities. And, you know,
(23:24):
our local community, having thecrops that are relevant to our,
our body or Kino, that feed orKino, are important. And that's
how we can change you know, thedynamic of becoming a local 100%
Local, agriculture producedcommunity. But when we have an
influx of people that are notfrom here that eat a different
(23:48):
way, the demand for foods aredifferent. And so that changes
what's what's available in ourstore. So how do we change that
dynamic?
Alex Wong (24:02):
Well, okay, like, we've, as a society, we've
gravitated towards convenience,right. And overindulgence, okay,
I'm gonna, I'm not Filipino, butI'm gonna pick on them right
now. Like, when we think ofFilipino food, we think of what
you get at a Filipinorestaurant. Right? The leichon,
(24:27):
the Tinono, the pork adobo.
Right? The blood meat theInaguan. All that stuff is like,
You can't eat that in excess. Ifyou eat all that stuff, you're
gonna get gout. And so we'veseen a lot of gout with local
people, especially Filipinos andPolynesians. a lot of gout,
(24:48):
because of the shellfish and thepork. Yep, and the red meat. And
what we need to realizeespecially with cuisine like
Hawaiian and Philip You know,cuisine is like, when you live a
normal life, you don't eatLechon every weekend or every
other day. That's thecelebration food, you eat that
(25:08):
for special events and holidays,like, maybe two, three times a
year, maybe. You cannot beeating lechon every week or like
Kalbi, like, you know, talkingabout local, Chinese, Chinese,
Japanese and Koreans like, youcannot be eating. Yeah, these
things in excess that you onlyeat on special occasions,
(25:30):
usually, right? If you're anormal person. Traditionally.
Yeah, nowadays we work, youknow, the day job, matrix job,
and then we go buy our food in atransaction. And if we're gonna
go eat out, right, it's theplate lunch, it's the meat gravy
two scoop rice mac salad. Andthat is not, you know, first of
(25:51):
all, it's not healthy. Right,that that kind of diet causes
obesity, diabetes, high bloodpressure, high cholesterol, and,
you know, my own familyincluded, right? Theyʻre townies
and they eat like that. And youknow, like that's, that's why
(26:11):
like, we have cancer and we haveall these health problems is
because we don't eat vegetableslike how our grandparents ate
vegetables. So we talk about alocal diet. I'm not talking
about plate lunch. I'm talkingabout what our grandparents ate
in the plantation Yeah. Orbefore plantation, the Hawaiians
ate, but yeah, we cooked a lotof vegetables. My grandmother,
(26:33):
cooked with a lot of vegetables.
Cabbage, locals eat cabbage allday, cabbage. In kimchi. right,
shredded cabbage under the fishunder the Ahi, right under the
fried fish. Not just under Pokeand under sashimi but cabbage
under everything. Cabbage insoup, right, cabbage and saimin,
(26:55):
cabbage and ramen. Cabbage. Weshould all be growing cabbage.
Like we should not be buyingimported cabbage. That's ***
cabbage. Oh sorry. you can bleepthat out. But that's cabbage.
That's some quite pigeon for youright there cabbage thatʻs total
cab. It's stupid. Like, no forreal, like locals eat cabbage.
(27:17):
But locals gotta be gotta beopen minded too, right? Salad is
good for you. Eat a salad, youknow, once a day, just eat a
salad that will change yourlife. Smoothies, right? locals
love local grown food, fruit. Weshould all be growing fruit in
our backyard. Right? Weshouldn't be buying no imported
(27:38):
bananas from Ecuador. Panama orSouth America Central America,
Mexico. Like stop importingbananas. Stop importing
avocados. locals eat avocados.
Right? There shouldn't be asingle Mexican restaurant or
food truck in the state ofHawaii. Buying imported
avocados. Hawaii grows betteravocados than California, our
avocados are bigger, butterierand just hands down better than
(28:01):
mainland avocados from Mexico orCalifornia. So
Alexis (28:08):
But avacadoʻs don't produce all year round. Right.
And so part of the convenienceaspect has been the convenience
of being able to eat whateverwhenever. The convenience of a
grocery store you go in and youcan get whatever you want, what
are you in the mood for? And youpurchase it. But part of the,
you know, achieving 100% locallygrown agriculture comes with a
(28:32):
perspective shift of what do youhave readily available? what's
in season? What you know, nothaving avocados all year round.
So what do you do when avocadosarenʻt in season? What do you do
when mangoes aren't in season?
And you know, there are wayslike you know greenhouses can
produce cabbage all year roundright there. There are ways that
(28:52):
we can meet demands with certaincrops all year round, but it
requires... there's so manylayers to agri, you know, 100%
attaining a local 100% localagriculture economy. Where do we
start? Where are we starting? Imean, this has been a push for a
while. So you know, we've we'vemade...
Alex Wong (29:16):
we need to start with like getting the younger
generation into farming. Right?
Here's the thing we talked aboutthis life of convenience that
we've built for ourselves in thematrix. This life of convenience
is convenient, but it makes ussoft. It makes our bodies soften
and makes a soft and up here.
(29:40):
Less resilient. Yes, it becomesless resilient. And you know, it
takes a sort of devotion anddedication to water and feed
your plants. Right like it'skind of funny, but most people
you can drop off your your dogor your cat, when you go on
(30:01):
vacation, you can leave your dogor your cat with your friend. Or
you can like ask your friend,hey, come over check on my dog
check on my cat. And like, ninetimes out of 10, you get home
from vacation and your dog andyour cat still alive. But if
you're a farmer or a grower, andyou ask your friend, hey, can
you watch my plants while I'mgone on vacation, nine times out
(30:23):
of 10, you come back and it'sdead. There's something about
growing plants, that's a littlebit trickier for people because
people don't bother to take thetime to practice growing plants.
Alexis (30:35):
They also communicate differently, we've become
accustomed to the way the dogsand cats communicate to us and
with their needs, but plantshave their own language in the
way that they communicate theirneeds. And a lot of people don't
know that. And so that's part ofthe getting younger generation
education.
Alex Wong (30:52):
they don't try, they were never taught, they don't
try. But what it comes down tois the convenience. And we as a
society today are spoiledrotten, where we just expect
everything instantaneously, it'sinstant gratification, instant
gratification, has killed theindividual spirit. It's killed
(31:15):
individual discipline andresiliency, like, we need more
self discipline. You know, wedon't see kids, with these days
with enough self discipline tomaintain focus to have a
conversation, physically, faceto face with an adult, you know,
I teach high school. So I'm notjust saying this, like, I work
(31:37):
with teenagers, and they ontheir phones all the time, like
their attention span is nothing.
And when that's when that's thecase with not just our children,
our keiki. But our adults, likehow do we expect anybody to have
the attention span and the selfdiscipline and self control to
show up every day to keep theirplants alive? Yep.
Alexis (32:01):
And so when we, we talked about layers, you know,
part of the layering of thisrelated back to local
agriculture's before a lot ofthese families, they lived on
their plantations, they lived ontheir farms, it was a family
operation, there was alifestyle. And now we have our
families that have to work thenine to five jobs, so they got
(32:21):
to put their kids in school. Sothe kids no longer have that
strong foundation that's rootedin that lifestyle. And so yeah,
of course, how are you going toget a high schooler whose
foundation is on electronics anddistraction and instant
gratification? How, you know,this, there's, how do we do it,
(32:42):
Alex? Whatʻs the solution?
Alex Wong (32:43):
There's only one way to do it, there's only one way
to do it. And it's to teach byexample. The baby boomers gotta
step it up. Before they're done,like, the baby boomers are
retiring now. So they got tostep it up their, their, their
grandparents now, the babyboomers right now are for are
(33:06):
going are now what mygrandparents generation was to
me, you know, they're, they'rethe kupuna. They're the elders.
And they need to step it up,because they're the ones who
basically bought into thismatrix. And they've enabled it
with their dollars, they votedwith their dollars. And they fed
and enabled this matrix, thismachine of convenience, that we
(33:28):
now have to turn the shiparound, and paddle upstream
against. And so the baby boomersgotta, they gotta change their
lifestyle. Now, they're goingthere, they got a little bit of
the kālā, they got, you know,their retirement, they've made
it out of the game, with theirSocial Security intact. They
might be the last generation tohave that. But they have that
(33:51):
little nut that they've saved.
Right, a lot of the babyboomers, they were able to
invest in purchase property,right. So they got it, they got
the property, they need to setup the next generation, the
millennials and the Gen Zʻersnow for sustainable, you know,
culture centric success, right?
Family oriented success,community oriented success,
(34:16):
rather than continue to justcruise and live the rest of
their life, then their last10-20 years, just living the
American dream because AmericanDream is dead. And you know, if
we expect the rest of us, themillennials, the Gen Zʻers and
everybody after that to have anychance at success and
(34:38):
resiliency, that baby boomersgot to support us being farmers,
and they got to support ourlifestyle. You know, we got to
make that we as individual asindividuals and as a community
need to make the conscious life,the conscious decision that
we're going to live and changeour lifestyle, and not just
suckle from the teeth of thematrix. right and just just take
(35:01):
what, what crumbs are willing togive us, right, but actually
create our own wealth, right?
create our own businesses. Andso yeah, that's what needs to
happen. We need to cultivatemore farmers. So that's what
Kauai Farm Planning does, is I'mout here trying to farm farmers,
I'm out here trying to Mālamafarmers, right, in addition to
the plants that I grow, right,and the the produce that I that
(35:25):
I support to my, my community tomy restaurants and my food
trucks, right and my and myselfreally, right, because you can't
be helping nobody, they tellyou, you got to put the mask on
yourself before you put on yourneighbor. Right. So I'm trying
to I'm trying to grow my ownfood first, everybody should be
growing their own food, first,put the mask on yourself. Every
family should have thedesignated farmer in the family
(35:47):
in the household, there's got tobe at least one person in every
local household that knows howto grow plants. Right, who's
working actively on the familyfarm, growing that thing so that
everyone else in the family whochooses to can jump out of their
matrix job that they're runninglike a hamster on the wheel,
jump out of the hamster wheelinto the family business, Right.
(36:11):
So that's the other thing KauaiFarm Planning does is I'm a
consultant for not just yourfarm, but for your family
business. Because I believe thatthat is the foundation of a
grassroots economy is that everyfamily farm also has a
tangential family business.
That's the only way to make itrather than having two matrix
(36:34):
jobs. You should have yourfarming job and your family
business that you contribute toas a family member. Right. And
if we're all running our ownfamily businesses that service
other local people, otherresidents and also the tourists,
then thatʻs how you empowercommunities.
Yeah, we don't need the matrixanymore. We're feeding
ourselves. We are creating ourown wealth with whatever service
(36:57):
or whatever good we areproducing as a family or as a
household. Right? Everyhousehold should be a cottage
business in Hawaii, everyfamily's home, their property
should produce a product or aservice a good or a service. It
shouldn't no property in thestate of Hawaii for owned by a
(37:19):
local family should simply bewhere you sleep and bathe and
eat.
Alexis (37:23):
Is that realistic for every single family to operate a
business operation?
Alex Wong (37:30):
I think it's realistic if we can fix our
public education system inHawaii,
Alexis (37:35):
Just public education or would it also include things
like health insurance andhousing. And you know
Alex Wong (37:41):
so Okay, so we're talking about a transition now.
And I'm just gonna, I'm gonnadouble down I'm gonna say, you
know, the State of Hawaii doesnot care about farmers, as it
is, they don't care. We havepoliticians who think they care.
But the fact is, is theythemselves have zero experience
farming, with the exception ofTim Richards on Big Island. I
(38:02):
don't think there's anybody elseright now, who is a
representative or a senator atthe state capitol that has any
professional experience farming.
I think there might be a couplepoliticians right now who, whose
parents were in agriculture inHawaii, or maybe agriculture
somewhere else in the mainland,but they themselves have zero
(38:25):
experience farming.
Alexis (38:28):
Tim Richards, he was a veterinarian, he's he works with
ranchers. Is he a farmerhimself?
Alex Wong (38:35):
Yes. Oh, yeah. Well, okay, so livestock. Yeah, that's
agriculture. Yeah, that'sagriculture. But my point is, is
like, we have we have we haveadvocates in our in the politics
right now in Hawaii, who saythey support farming, but
because they have zeroexperience themselves farming,
they don't know how to helpproduce the solutions to get
(39:00):
family get farming out of thedumpster right now to get out of
the red. And so when Hawaii saysthat they care about
agriculture, that's That's ***.
Our state budget alone reflectsthat. Right? What is it less
than 1% of the state budget goesdirectly to farming? Yeah, to
agriculture in Hawaii. That's***. Right? Yeah. So that that's
(39:21):
a lie. That's a straight up lie.
Hawaii, our government, theState of Hawaii does not care
about agriculture. They do notcare. And we need to change
that. We need to change thatbecause if we aren't growing our
own food, that's a that's aresiliency problem. That's the
(39:42):
sustainability problem. That's aclimate change problem. And if
the state of Hawaii and thecounties are going to use any of
those words, they need toaddress the food security issue
first. Right? Because they liketo use those words.
Alexis (39:57):
Sorry, they developed the
Alex Wong (39:58):
to push their agenda And to develop and to sell out.
That's what the state and thecounties are doing right now.
The so whole sustainability,topic and discussion has been
hijacked around permitting anddevelopment, and not around
actual community resiliency andfood security. So we need to get
that straight. And, you know, ifthe state of Hawaii really cares
(40:23):
about farmers, then they willsubsidize health care and
housing for farmers. There arezero incentives to being a
farmer in Hawaii today. So thestate of Hawaii, if they if they
care, if they, if they care atall, if our politicians care at
all, they need to put theirmoney where their mouth is, and
subsidize healthcare forfarming, because nobody wants to
farm. And that's the fact thatit's it's a labor of love. It's
(40:46):
a thankless job. And even ifeven if you were to give your
praises, and your thanks and allyour gratitude to the farmers
that doesn't pay my rent, or mymortgage, I'm sorry. But like,
it might feel nice when you saythank you, and mahalo. But the
fact is, is that's not paying mybills. It's not paying my
mortgage or my rent. And, yeah,the state of Hawaii needs to do
(41:10):
that. We subsidize tourism inHawaii, we subsidize military,
we need to subsidize foodsecurity. And in order to get
more people farming, like Iguarantee you how many Hawaiians
and local people will leavetheir day job, their matrix job,
if they were given, if they andtheir dependents were given
(41:31):
health care, and housing, theywould start farming full time, I
guarantee it, Hawaiians wouldrather be outside on the land
than doing construction, orworking in the hotels and
resorts. I guarantee it. Don'tDon't even try and argue with
that one. Like we talked, wewant to talk about culture, and
where people belong. It'soutside, all of us belong
(41:53):
outside growing plants innature, that's where we all
belong. I mean, if you if youdon't want to do that, then
yeah, you could you can work thematrix job, the matrix can keep
going, you know, because thanksto you, but and the fact is, is
we got to do this ourselves. Sowe don't need them. We don't
(42:13):
need like, politicians rightnow, garbage. So unless we, we
teach our youth the right way,with ethics, with morals, with
principles with integrity, andreplace our current politicians
with them. Like we just got towork around them, we got to work
around them, because they're notpart of the solution. Our
politicians today are not partof the solution. And the
(42:36):
solution comes from us from thecommunity, from the individual
from the family, that's wherethe solutions are going to come
from. And the fact is, is that,like I said, for you to be truly
independent, for you to besovereign, you need to be able
to grow your own food, right?
Because if you depend onsomebody else to feed you, well,
you're pretty much giving thepower to somebody else to starve
(42:57):
you. Right. And the fact is, isthat the only true sovereignty,
we could talk about Hawaiiansovereignty and the kingdom, all
we want, with the only truesovereignty is economic
sovereignty, economicsovereignty,
Alexis (43:11):
Right. And so then when, when growing your own food, it's
not just a matter of, you know,someone being able to produce
their own food, it's all theimports, it's we have degraded
soil conditions. So if you don'thave soil, you can't grow your
own food, if you don't have theinfrastructure to have a
hydroponics or an aquaponics. Orgreenhouse, you know, you're
you're limited, folks arelimited in what they can
(43:33):
produce. So I agree that it'sideal that we're all growing our
own food, you know, but there'sso many other factors that are
in play with this for us toreach this goal. And, you know,
like you said, it starts witheducation in the public school
systems, it starts withgrassroots efforts to have
community based solutions. Yeah,there's, there's so many layers
(44:00):
to this.
Alex Wong (44:00):
So, I know. I know you gotta go, Alexis. But the
last thing I just want to say,to kind of wrap up the economics
of farming in Hawaii, is, Areyou familiar with MLMs,
Alexis (44:14):
of course, multi level marketing.
Alex Wong (44:18):
So I believe that a true grassroots economy in
Hawaii, especially in thefarming community, especially
with our food, is an MLM. Everyproperty, every household, every
family needs to think ofthemselves as an MLM, as its own
entity, its own microcorporation that produces food.
(44:43):
And you know, from your familybusiness, another good or
service and whenever the foodlike that's your inventory,
right? The goal is to haveenough inventory to feed the
family or the residents on thatproperty first, and then
anything extra now that'scommercial sales. Right? So now
you're selling to therestaurant, the food truck,
(45:04):
farmer's market, you know, CSA,you know, bags or whatever
boxes. And that's your inventoryand MLM style is, you know, you
actually don't have carryinventory, right? The inventory
is like, you get throughsubscription through your market
partner, and the inventory ismailed to you or whatever. Well,
(45:27):
in a similar fashion, like youwere saying, if somebody's got
too much of something this week,well guarantee somebody else
somewhere, somebody elsesomewhere else on the island is
going to have not enough thisweek. So if we can just, you
know, create this localcommunity, local economy,
Alexis (45:45):
isn't that isn't that a similar structure to co-opʻs?
Isn't that how a co-op operates?
Because a local multilevelmarketing still has a goal to
maximize profits. And, you know,my concern, or what I would see
with that structure is anytimethat we're out to maximize
(46:06):
profits, there's always an endresult of greed. There's always
we just want more, more, more,more more. And so is that
beneficial for the community ifeverybody's money hungry to
maximize profits?
Alex Wong (46:20):
Well, okay. Here's the thing. Um... okay
Alexis (46:25):
Sorry, that might have opened a can of worms into a
whole other conversation.
Alex Wong (46:28):
Okay, if we want to talk about political economies
we can. I am not a socialist, Iam not, I'm not a capitalist.
I'm like, I'm the high happymedium, right? So capitalism,
it's in itself is inherently notevil. Profit is not evil.
Profit, by definition by Marx,Karl Marx and Engels is profit.
(46:53):
Okay, I'm gonna say this onetime. Profit is the unpaid wages
of the working class. Profit. Inother words, profit is the
unpaid wages of the employees,if your company or your business
is making profit, and youremployees are not getting their
fair share of that profit, thatis greed, that is evil
(47:16):
capitalism. But capitalism initself is not evil, as long as
there's profit sharing. And thatgoes for a farm that goes for
everything, in the capitalist,you know, philosophy and the
capitalist market. businessesand corporations need to
function in that fact thatprofit needs to be shared with
(47:39):
all of the stakeholders, all ofthe employees need to get their
fair share of that profit.
Alexis (47:46):
What is the... What's the name of the structure of a
business where it's likeemployee and community owned?
Hawaiian, Ola, the brewery, thefastest growing brewery in the
state, in Kona on Hawaii Island,they are a great example of
this, you know, they're lookingto build this large production
(48:08):
center to support local farmersand have a value added product.
But they are 100% community andemployee owned, is that is that
a dynamic is that you know, arealistic dynamic for an
approach? Thatʻs how it shouldbe.
Alex Wong (48:24):
I mean, you want to avoid too many chiefs, not
enough Indians kind ofsituation, right? You definitely
have to have certain chain ofcommand so that there's a
hierarchy of accountability,right and responsibility. But as
long as the the employees have astake, right, that's the other
thing is I'm the type of guythat first of all, I can't work
(48:46):
for somebody that is dumber thanme, that's not going to happen.
I'll respect that person as anindividual. But I cannot take
commands and orders from aperson who's not making the best
decision, right? So for me, Ican't work for somebody who's
dumber than me. That's why Ileft the government. Kidding,
kinda. But the other thing too,is like, if I work for a
(49:10):
business, like, I'm not gonnabust my ass for that business,
if I'm only getting paid anhourly wage, because me working
harder does not increase howmuch money I'm earning, even if
the business is doing better andbetter and better, because I'm
working harder and smarter andbetter. Like, if I'm still
getting paid $15 An hour or $20an hour or whatever. $60 an
(49:30):
hour. Like, I'm only going to dowhat I'm going to do and you
can't count on and I wouldconsider myself a good employee.
Right. I work hard. I havestrong work ethic, strong
discipline, you know, I'm Asian.
Yeah, my parents taught me A+ noA-, right? B, your disowned. So,
like, unless unless ouremployees are trained that way
(49:51):
and taught that way and raisedthat way, like you're not going
to count on them. So the onlyway to incentivize good employee
morale loyalty work ethic is togive them a share of the
company, right? The success ofthe company is now you know, at
stake, you know of their effort,and their input and their
passion. And if they know thatthey're gonna make a lot more
(50:12):
money, if they work harder, andthey do better, then they might
show up, you know, and and dotheir best. So yeah, that's a
big thing. I'm big on the FourAgreements, Don Miguel Ruiz,
like, I'm big on that, like, ifwe all honor that, I think it
kind of greases the wheels andhelps the communication channels
to be open. And you know, theegos to be, you know, leashed.
(50:33):
If we all honor the FourAgreements. So now we're kind of
past the time.
Alexis (50:40):
Thank you so much, Alex, for being here today, it was
such an honor to hear yourknowledge and your perspectives
and sharing so much insight forour community. I'm hopeful. I
feel mobilized after thisconversation, how do you feel?
Alex Wong (50:55):
You know, if I didn't have any hope I wouldn't be
doing this, I would completelyfollow the path of least
resistance and sell my soul andsell out like all these other
politicians, and work a sixfigure job in the matrix. But
no, I have, I have a lot of hopein this. And I have faith in my
(51:15):
community, that, you know, wewere going to get our priorities
right. And we're going to followleaders in the community who
embody Aloha, and they embodyintegrity, and they embody
values, you know, that ourculture in our community was
built on. And we're not justgoing to give the reins and the
(51:35):
control over to these peoplewith degrees, or these people
who represent, you know, certainbrand names, or corporations or
even the university, or thegovernment to, you know, dictate
this lifestyle that we aretrying to live out here in
Hawaii, you know, keepingcountry country keeping the
culture, and, you know, keepingit local, grown and local made.
(52:00):
And the only way to do that isfor us to support our, our own
families and support each other,you know, in the community. And
like I said before, we don'tneed, we don't need them. We
don't, you know, it starts outat home. It starts with, with
the individual. And, yeah, itstarts with our choices that we
make each day. You know, how wespend our money, how we vote
(52:22):
with our dollars, and who wesupport.
Alexis (52:26):
It all starts within?
Alex Wong (52:27):
Iʻm here for that!
Alexis (52:29):
You make me want to be here for that. You help. You are
very inspiring. It's, Icertainly feel honored to know
you. And thank you so much forbeing a catalyst and a pillar in
this movement. Your, Ourcommunities are lucky to have
people like you, so
Alex Wong (52:49):
Mahalo Alexis. I appreciate you.
Alexis (52:51):
Mahalo. I appreciate you. Well, let's talk story soon
again. I hope you have a greatrest of your day. Do you have a
long day ahead of you in thefarm?
Alex Wong (53:00):
I do. I do. I do have a partner now. And you know,
moving has really not been thatstressful. And you know, I'm I
have a lot of good friends outhere who offered to help me move
to so. Yeah, that's, that's agreat part about, you know,
farming and being a part of thecommunity that the community
shows up for you when you showup for them. And I'm grateful
(53:24):
and it is humbling to to beembraced, you know. So Mahalo,
Alexis. We'll talk soon. Yeah.
Alexis (53:32):
Mahalo, Alex. Talk soon.
A huihou!
Alex Wong (53:36):
Aloha!
Thao (53:38):
We want to thank our guests for their generosity and
Manalo. We also want to thankall our ag producers throughout
the islands, and especiallythose we have heard on the
podcast for discussing ways theyaddress the physical, mental,
emotional, and spiritualdimensions of Hawaii ag
production. Each story eachvoice contributes to a broader
(54:01):
understanding of what it takesto survive and thrive as we feed
our communities, wherever youmay find yourself within our
island agricultural economies.
If you would like to share yourstory, and our podcast, please
contact us. Thank you forlistening to the seeds of well
being voices from the fieldpodcast featuring their
perspectives of ag producersthroughout the Hubei islands. If
(54:24):
you have found it helpful,please follow like and share
this episode with others. And ifyou have any ideas about how we
can make it better, please letus know in the comments or use
the link on our website. Mahalofor tuning in.
The views information or opinions expressed during the
(00:03):
seeds of wellbeing series aresolely those of the individuals
involved and do not necessarilyrepresent those of the
University of Hawaii College ofTropical Agriculture and Human
Resources, our funders, and anyaffiliated organizations
involved in this project.
Welcome to a seeds of well beingvoices from the field podcast,
(00:23):
featuring voices of Hawaiiagricultural producers for
Hawaii agriculture producers.
These podcasts are made possibleby a grant from the University
of Hawaii College of TropicalAgriculture and Human Resources,
also known as CTAHR. And theseeds of well being are so
project and is supported by agrant from the US Department of
(00:46):
Agriculture, National Instituteof Food and Agriculture, and the
Hawaii Department ofAgriculture.
Alexis Kerver (01:00):
Aloha and welcome back to the Seeds of Wellbeing
Podcast. Joining us today onVoices From the Field is Alex
Wong. Aloha Alex, welcome.
Thanks so much for being heretoday. So great to see you. How
are you doing?
Alex Wong (01:17):
Aloha. I'm doing good. I'm in the middle of
moving right now. Movingresidences, and my whole life,
my business Kaua'i FarmPlanning. Luckily, I'm able to
stay on Kaua'i but, moving issuch a hassle, especially when
(01:37):
you grow plants, and you farmand you have to relocate your
entire nursery. It's takes a lotof thinking and execution. And
anyway, I'm in the middle of alot right now.
Alexis Kerver (01:55):
Lot's of planning, too I could imagine.
Alex Wong (01:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis (01:59):
Are you switching climate zones?
Alex Wong (02:02):
I am, I am going from the south side to the east side.
Little bit higher elevation. I'mnot sure about the rainfall yet.
And the humidity. But in theline of what I do, those things
make a big difference with mytype of crop. But yeah, um,
(02:27):
thanks for inviting me. This hascome full circle now, hasn't it?
Alexis (02:31):
Yeah, this is full circle. Thanks for being here.
It's nice to have you back inthis capacity. You've served on
the seeds of well being projectfor over a year, almost two
years, I believe. So it's reallynice to have you back here. And
we're excited to hear some ofyour perspectives. Kaua'i Farm
Planning, you mentioned thattell us a little bit more about
(02:53):
your business.
Alex Wong (02:56):
Okay, so Kaua'i Farm Planning. It's the amalgamation
of everything that I've studiedas a student, and everything
that I've studied as a residentin the great state of Hawaii.
(03:18):
Living in that matrix also, as ahuman being, and a local
resident living in the kingdomof Hawaii. That's a different
thing altogether. And so it's acombination of my anthropology
background, my politicaleconomics background, my GIS and
(03:43):
geospatial analysis, geographybackground. My background as
somebody who did archaeology,and someone who studied Hawaiian
archaeology, a little bit at UHWest Oahu in Kapolei and
Hawaiian Studies at UH West OahuKapolei under Kumu Leilani
(04:05):
Basham and Cordy, Ross Cordy,archaeologists and
anthropologists. Also, this islike the inclusion of my
experience in agriculture. Youknow, growing up as a kid in
agriculture and aroundagriculture, and also in
(04:30):
agriculture as a professionalhere in Hawaii. I've worked for
the seeds, the soil waterconservation districts here on
kawaii and after that, I went tothe county and I worked for the
planning department. So I workedon the other side of the counter
for all those people, propertyowners, developers, architects,
(04:53):
engineers, like when you got toget permits, you know, and go
through the county process. Iwas on the zoning side As
opposed to the building, andpublic worksite. So taking all
that knowledge and also mypassion for culture and social
equity, kind of bring that alltogether. And we create quiet
(05:14):
farm planning. So quiet farmplanning my my goal is to help
every property owner includingthe state and the county to
utilize and maximize the fullpotential. With an agricultural
lens doesn't matter if it's onag zone property or not. You can
we can do it in urban zoneproperty and residential areas
(05:37):
and commercial areas as well.
But instead of just landscaping,grass, and your usual suspects
to grow crops, and consumableplants and food, consumers
consumable and also potentiallyscalable and sellable in order
(05:57):
to pay for your own rent, ormortgage, that's the that's the
main goal. smaller, smallergoals that I try and hit before
that it's just paper,miscellany, miscellaneous
utilities and expense, monthlyexpenses by agriculture, just no
matter how small or how big,every property has monthly
(06:23):
expenses, right. And so if wecould just start off with
farming by covering those costs,the anticipated regular costs
will go from there. Right? Justbreaking even, we'll go from
there. And then we can talkabout profit after that. But
every farmers first financialgoal needs to be just meeting
(06:45):
your bottom line covering allyour costs and breaking even
because that enough, and farmingis hard.
Alexis (06:54):
Do you find that that's not already a farmers startup
goal? To break even? No, no,
Alex Wong (07:02):
that that's that's the farmers cold. But the
problem is, is the farmer startsin the whole the matrix, the
system is rigged againstfarmers, and I don't care who
who has Oh, but we have grantmoney, we have this and that the
system itself is rigged againstlocal farmers. This is the only
(07:23):
farmers who the system is set upfor is the corporate the
corporation's corporate levelfarming that's subsidized by the
government, small scale farmingfamily farming that subsidized
and to the extent of pretty muchjust grant money. That's it, the
(07:44):
farmer has to carry thefinancial burden of essentially
everything else. And then withthe retailer, you know, once
they get it, they, they upchargeit, and their profit is just
simply by having a retail, youknow, final destination. But,
you know, the retailer doesn'tdo hardly any of the work. They
don't even have to go pick it upfor the most part, it gets
(08:05):
delivered. In most cases. Yeah.
So farming, you have to be superprecise, and super efficient in
your whole organization and yourwhole execution. And if you fall
out of that line, like there'sno buffer for you. It's a very
small room for error, especiallyin Hawaii, when there's so many
(08:28):
unpredictable factors. You know,the weather the high cost of
living, right, the, the thefluctuations and costs like,
like for gasoline oil, right,right. Any sort of machinery
equipment, like that stufffluctuates, lumber, costs, a
(08:49):
lumber fluctuates, we have tobuild anything, like farming is
expensive. And so my role nowhas become let's take all those
factors that affect us, not justthe factors that affect the
cultivation of plants oranimals, but the factors that
affect our entire supply chain.
(09:14):
And the culture and the placethat we live. Those things
matter to for your smallbusiness, especially farming,
Alexis (09:22):
like everyday things interconnected, all relevant.
Alex Wong (09:26):
Exactly. And those things get overlooked. Right.
When we talk about helpingfarmers, we don't talk about
housing. We just talk about oh,what what do you need for the
farm? We don't we don't look atthe rest of their life, that it
completely revolves aroundcultivation, like keeping plants
and animals alive. And that's avery hard thing to do. Because
(09:50):
we live in a society now wherenobody knows how to farm. It's
reversed it used to be,civilization was built on the
backs of farmers. Okay, and now,we've somehow flipped everything
on its head. And farmers don'tget no respect no more. Just
like teachers, right? It's thesame thing. It's, it's it's a
(10:13):
profession, and an occupation.
And it's a labor of love andpassion. People don't get into
the farming business. I mean,they don't get into farming, you
know, on a personal level tomake exorbitant amounts of
profit. That's not. That's nothow it's done. I mean,
(10:33):
corporations try. They try toget in agriculture because they
think that they can make moremoney because they're a
corporation, and they canautomate things and have the
economies of scale. But the factis, is that farming is it's
unless it's done locally, right,unless the carbon footprint
(10:58):
remains in a single geographicarea, right, as long as you're
not exporting ridiculous thingslike trying to send fish to Las
Vegas, Nevada, right? Oranything grown in California to
the Midwest, right? Where theEast Coast like, farming is not
(11:18):
sustainable right now. No,unless it's done. The Earth is
not flat, like Milton Friedmanhad wrote.
Alexis (11:31):
So let's talk a little bit more about the economic
structure. I'm curious to hearyour perspective on this, you
have so much insight, so I'mexcited to tap in. So you know,
our current economic structureseems to maximize globalization.
And, you know, there are somebenefits to being able to export
(11:51):
your crops to meet demandswhere, you know, where there
wouldn't otherwise be a strongdemand. But can you tell us a
little bit more about some prosand cons between globalization
and localization of food crops,just so we have a better
understanding? Of what you mean,you know, like, focus on local
what is that?
Alex Wong (12:13):
Yeah, so the idea is like, keeping the money in the
family, keeping the money in thefamily. That's, that's like the
heart of
Alexis (12:23):
creating generational wealth
Alex Wong (12:25):
generational on not just that, but like, what I
consider my family as mycommunity, right when I talk
about economics, so as long asyou know, Killer Mike, the
rapper has this really stupidshow on Netflix called Trigger
(12:46):
Warning with Killer Mike. And inone episode, he tries to live
black for like, five days,meaning he can only purchase
things from black ownedbusinesses. And he couldn't do
it. He couldn't do it, right.
And that idea like every time hesays black, or African American,
in that episode, you justsubstitute the word local.
(13:09):
Trying to buy local. Can you doit in Hawaii? Can you can every
transaction that you have everyday of the week? Right? Are you
supporting a local business or alocal producer that produced
that item? The answer for themost part, especially on Oahu,
is no. Yeah, so that's what I'msaying about keeping the money
(13:30):
in the family. How long can wekeep $1 bill in the local
community on Kauai, like forexample, on this island before
that dollar gets up and leavesKauai? That's the grassroots
economy. And the same thingneeds to happen with food we
shouldn't be growing things andsending them to California or we
shouldn't be growing things andsending them you know around the
(13:51):
world until we can feed our selffirst. And so, you know, when I
got into farming professionally,you know, me farming on Kauai,
my father, he quickly quicklylike questioned that. He said
"Why are you on Kauai? Why areyou finding on Kauai? The market
(14:14):
is so small." Like we got lessthan you know on any given day
right around 80-75, 80,000people on quiet right not
including the tourists I'mtalking about residents. Seems
like that you have a such asmall market like you're not
going to make any money. And Itold him well, first of all,
(14:35):
Kauai has not achieved feedingitself yet. All the restaurants,
all the houses, like they'llconsume food grown somewhere
else in the mainland, or likeinternational like South
America, Central America. NewZealand, Australia, China,
(14:55):
right. The foods flying in orbeing shipped in on a on a boat.
And so when we purchase thatfood, that's our money getting
up and leaving Hawaii. That'sour, our, our local residents
watering and feeding someoneelse's economy is what that is.
(15:17):
That on top of the carbonemissions for transporting that
food. It's ridiculous. And so,um, yeah, the first goal here on
Kauai is to, for all of us localKauai farmers, everyone farming
on Kauai, like I try and telleverybody I preach, don't look
at each other as competitionwhen you see another farmer in
(15:38):
the state of Hawaii or theanother farmer on your island,
they are not competition.
They're not competition untilthe entire island is pretty much
100% local grown in terms ofgoing to the restaurants and
going to the store for buy food.
Like until it's 100% localsource, you're not competition
with each other. Even at theeven at the local farmers
(16:02):
market, you might you may looklike you're competing for the
same population, the samemarket, the same people, right,
who are cruising the farmersmarket who come every week and
buy from the farmers market. Butthe fact is that thatʻs just a
little bubble of the economy.
Once you cover that demographic,you need to step outside of the
(16:24):
farmers market and realizethere's a the rest of the island
you got to feed that's notshowing up to the farmers
market. So
Alexis (16:31):
So is there is there communication between farmers
and what who's growing what andwhat demands they're producing?
I used to work in a producedepartment at a at a health food
store. And there were times thatwe would have an influx of a
certain of a particular crop,for instance, in herbs, let's
(16:52):
say they brought in a bunch ofeverybody's growing Basil and
Rosemary. And we'd have to turnaway farmers because we'd have a
surplus, often of particularcrops. So how do we prevent
that? Because those are issuesif we're looking for, you know,
to produce 100% Local, how do wemake sure that we're producing
(17:13):
the crops that we need to meetthe demands for and not
producing too much of oneparticular crop?
Alex Wong (17:19):
So, um, it's about the supply chain, right? And
having contingency plans, youhave plan A, right if if these
out, if this outlet is alreadyat capacity, then I have my
second outlet, I have plan Bplan C. You know, in in
business, you teach the you gotto have at least three outlets,
(17:42):
at least three, right? In orderto have a sustainable business.
You know, as a farmer, you haveto have three steady clients
that you service weekly or biweekly, every day
Alexis (17:58):
and thereʻs enough retailers out there that you can
have, you know, thosecontingency plans,
Alex Wong (18:06):
what I recommend for farmers and for me, like, you
know, the farmers market isgreat. The farmers market is
great, because that's where thecommunity is seen interacting
with the farmers. That's whereyou, you know, you basically
farm gate, almost, you're givingthe money directly to the
farmer, there's no middleman totake their cut. Yeah, the
(18:27):
farmers farmers market. AlsoFarmers Market is good because
if you want a lot of something,like for me, if I don't if I run
out of Bananas in my backyard,right, Because I eat a lot of
bananas. Choke bananas, like,because I eat smoothie almost
every day. So I get bananas inmy freezer, right. And so when I
(18:50):
go farmers market, if I'm out ofBananas, and I don't have a rack
ready on the tree, I'll take 3040 bucks to the farmers market
and I'll hand it to a farmer andbe like, give me as many bananas
as I can get for 30 bucks or 40bucks. And I tell him I'm going
to make smoothies I'm going tofreeze them. So they give me
like everything that's ripeeverything with the black spots
(19:12):
starting like they give me allof that because they know it's
going to be bad by tomorrowmorning. So like I do love the
farmers market but in terms ofbeing a business as a farm, I
highly recommend restaurants andfood trucks first as your main
(19:32):
clients. And then like you weresaying sometimes you get jammed
up because a restaurant or afood truck, they'll they'll come
into some produce, right?
Whether it's from like Waihataʻsor Sakis or, you know, Cisco
Foods. They're gonna get theircheap stuff that's imported from
the mainland that you can'tcompete with because it's $1.50
(19:52):
a pound. And you're gonna beyou're gonna be stuck with like
10, 20, 30 pounds of somethingthis week. What is taught at
GoFarm is that you always needto have a practice that will
extend the shelf life of yourproduce.
Alexis (20:13):
value added product
Alex Wong (20:14):
Whatever it is. Value added. Yeah, if you can jar it
if you can pickle it, if you canassault it if you can dry it for
me, like we got to grow thestaple crops. So, kalo number
one. So poi is a great way toextend shelf life. Just the corm
(20:34):
itself of Kalo last for a longtime if you keep it in a cool
dry place. But besides poi, andbesides you know, just steaming
it real quick, and you know,poke it and you know, just
pretty much or do some sort ofpaʻi ai, I like I like to flash
steam in the Insta Pot and thencut into fry shape. And throw
(20:56):
that in the freezer as fries.
Alexis (21:00):
It can also be grounded into a powder right, for flour?
Alex Wong (21:04):
Yeah, you can Yeah, yeah. Dried, dried and
re-hydrated with water. Butyeah, like we need to just focus
on stuff that is versatile,flexible, and has high, high
like protein calorie andnutrition content. And kalo is
that thing that you know whatthe Hawaiians eat. As long as
(21:26):
thereʻs a demand, yeah, as afarmer grow it, but you also
have to balance like, what isworth your time growing. And for
me, I'm not gonna get out of bedto grow anything for $1.50 a
pound. That's not happening.
Right? So for me, I got to dohigh value crops. And thatʻs
salad. Everybody needs saladgreens. Like, there shouldn't be
any
Alexis (21:49):
reason to buy a Costco bag from anywhere
Alex Wong (21:53):
Yeah, yeah, sure it's $5 a box or $5 a bag. But you
got to consider that it's beensitting on a boat for almost a
week. So by the time it hitsyour refrigerator, your icebox
at home, it's, it's starting togo bad. Yeah. Whereas if you buy
locally grown salad greens, likeit'll last a month, as long as
(22:13):
you keep it in the icebox, itʻlllast a month, just hit it with
some ice water. You know, justdunk it real quick, hit it with
ice water, shake it off, let itdry for a little bit and then
stuff it back into a plastic baginto the icebox and you're good
for like a month with localgrown lettuce. Basil, like who
(22:34):
buys imported Basil?
Alexis (22:36):
Pesto for that matter, I mean, you go to a grocery store
and you spend $13 on a jar ofpesto.
Alex Wong (22:44):
Basil is the easiest thing to grow. Like, first of
all, everyone should be grown intheir backyard. But yeah, local
grown basil. Should not bebuying imported basil, any sort
of like leafy green, greenonions, like none of that should
be imported at all.
Alexis (23:03):
So in addition to extending shelf life through
value added products, anotherchallenge we have here is the
way we eat, you know, its formany communities. And, you know,
(23:24):
our local community, having thecrops that are relevant to our,
our body or Kino, that feed orKino, are important. And that's
how we can change you know, thedynamic of becoming a local 100%
Local, agriculture producedcommunity. But when we have an
influx of people that are notfrom here that eat a different
(23:48):
way, the demand for foods aredifferent. And so that changes
what's what's available in ourstore. So how do we change that
dynamic?
Alex Wong (24:02):
Well, okay, like, we've, as a society, we've
gravitated towards convenience,right. And overindulgence, okay,
I'm gonna, I'm not Filipino, butI'm gonna pick on them right
now. Like, when we think ofFilipino food, we think of what
you get at a Filipinorestaurant. Right? The leichon,
(24:27):
the Tinono, the pork adobo.
Right? The blood meat theInaguan. All that stuff is like,
You can't eat that in excess. Ifyou eat all that stuff, you're
gonna get gout. And so we'veseen a lot of gout with local
people, especially Filipinos andPolynesians. a lot of gout,
(24:48):
because of the shellfish and thepork. Yep, and the red meat. And
what we need to realizeespecially with cuisine like
Hawaiian and Philip You know,cuisine is like, when you live a
normal life, you don't eatLechon every weekend or every
other day. That's thecelebration food, you eat that
(25:08):
for special events and holidays,like, maybe two, three times a
year, maybe. You cannot beeating lechon every week or like
Kalbi, like, you know, talkingabout local, Chinese, Chinese,
Japanese and Koreans like, youcannot be eating. Yeah, these
things in excess that you onlyeat on special occasions,
(25:30):
usually, right? If you're anormal person. Traditionally.
Yeah, nowadays we work, youknow, the day job, matrix job,
and then we go buy our food in atransaction. And if we're gonna
go eat out, right, it's theplate lunch, it's the meat gravy
two scoop rice mac salad. Andthat is not, you know, first of
(25:51):
all, it's not healthy. Right,that that kind of diet causes
obesity, diabetes, high bloodpressure, high cholesterol, and,
you know, my own familyincluded, right? Theyʻre townies
and they eat like that. And youknow, like that's, that's why
(26:11):
like, we have cancer and we haveall these health problems is
because we don't eat vegetableslike how our grandparents ate
vegetables. So we talk about alocal diet. I'm not talking
about plate lunch. I'm talkingabout what our grandparents ate
in the plantation Yeah. Orbefore plantation, the Hawaiians
ate, but yeah, we cooked a lotof vegetables. My grandmother,
(26:33):
cooked with a lot of vegetables.
Cabbage, locals eat cabbage allday, cabbage. In kimchi. right,
shredded cabbage under the fishunder the Ahi, right under the
fried fish. Not just under Pokeand under sashimi but cabbage
under everything. Cabbage insoup, right, cabbage and saimin,
(26:55):
cabbage and ramen. Cabbage. Weshould all be growing cabbage.
Like we should not be buyingimported cabbage. That's ***
cabbage. Oh sorry. you can bleepthat out. But that's cabbage.
That's some quite pigeon for youright there cabbage thatʻs total
cab. It's stupid. Like, no forreal, like locals eat cabbage.
(27:17):
But locals gotta be gotta beopen minded too, right? Salad is
good for you. Eat a salad, youknow, once a day, just eat a
salad that will change yourlife. Smoothies, right? locals
love local grown food, fruit. Weshould all be growing fruit in
our backyard. Right? Weshouldn't be buying no imported
(27:38):
bananas from Ecuador. Panama orSouth America Central America,
Mexico. Like stop importingbananas. Stop importing
avocados. locals eat avocados.
Right? There shouldn't be asingle Mexican restaurant or
food truck in the state ofHawaii. Buying imported
avocados. Hawaii grows betteravocados than California, our
avocados are bigger, butterierand just hands down better than
(28:01):
mainland avocados from Mexico orCalifornia. So
Alexis (28:08):
But avacadoʻs don't produce all year round. Right.
And so part of the convenienceaspect has been the convenience
of being able to eat whateverwhenever. The convenience of a
grocery store you go in and youcan get whatever you want, what
are you in the mood for? And youpurchase it. But part of the,
you know, achieving 100% locallygrown agriculture comes with a
(28:32):
perspective shift of what do youhave readily available? what's
in season? What you know, nothaving avocados all year round.
So what do you do when avocadosarenʻt in season? What do you do
when mangoes aren't in season?
And you know, there are wayslike you know greenhouses can
produce cabbage all year roundright there. There are ways that
(28:52):
we can meet demands with certaincrops all year round, but it
requires... there's so manylayers to agri, you know, 100%
attaining a local 100% localagriculture economy. Where do we
start? Where are we starting? Imean, this has been a push for a
while. So you know, we've we'vemade...
Alex Wong (29:16):
we need to start with like getting the younger
generation into farming. Right?
Here's the thing we talked aboutthis life of convenience that
we've built for ourselves in thematrix. This life of convenience
is convenient, but it makes ussoft. It makes our bodies soften
and makes a soft and up here.
(29:40):
Less resilient. Yes, it becomesless resilient. And you know, it
takes a sort of devotion anddedication to water and feed
your plants. Right like it'skind of funny, but most people
you can drop off your your dogor your cat, when you go on
(30:01):
vacation, you can leave your dogor your cat with your friend. Or
you can like ask your friend,hey, come over check on my dog
check on my cat. And like, ninetimes out of 10, you get home
from vacation and your dog andyour cat still alive. But if
you're a farmer or a grower, andyou ask your friend, hey, can
you watch my plants while I'mgone on vacation, nine times out
(30:23):
of 10, you come back and it'sdead. There's something about
growing plants, that's a littlebit trickier for people because
people don't bother to take thetime to practice growing plants.
Alexis (30:35):
They also communicate differently, we've become
accustomed to the way the dogsand cats communicate to us and
with their needs, but plantshave their own language in the
way that they communicate theirneeds. And a lot of people don't
know that. And so that's part ofthe getting younger generation
education.
Alex Wong (30:52):
they don't try, they were never taught, they don't
try. But what it comes down tois the convenience. And we as a
society today are spoiledrotten, where we just expect
everything instantaneously, it'sinstant gratification, instant
gratification, has killed theindividual spirit. It's killed
(31:15):
individual discipline andresiliency, like, we need more
self discipline. You know, wedon't see kids, with these days
with enough self discipline tomaintain focus to have a
conversation, physically, faceto face with an adult, you know,
I teach high school. So I'm notjust saying this, like, I work
(31:37):
with teenagers, and they ontheir phones all the time, like
their attention span is nothing.
And when that's when that's thecase with not just our children,
our keiki. But our adults, likehow do we expect anybody to have
the attention span and the selfdiscipline and self control to
show up every day to keep theirplants alive? Yep.
Alexis (32:01):
And so when we, we talked about layers, you know,
part of the layering of thisrelated back to local
agriculture's before a lot ofthese families, they lived on
their plantations, they lived ontheir farms, it was a family
operation, there was alifestyle. And now we have our
families that have to work thenine to five jobs, so they got
(32:21):
to put their kids in school. Sothe kids no longer have that
strong foundation that's rootedin that lifestyle. And so yeah,
of course, how are you going toget a high schooler whose
foundation is on electronics anddistraction and instant
gratification? How, you know,this, there's, how do we do it,
(32:42):
Alex? Whatʻs the solution?
Alex Wong (32:43):
There's only one way to do it, there's only one way
to do it. And it's to teach byexample. The baby boomers gotta
step it up. Before they're done,like, the baby boomers are
retiring now. So they got tostep it up their, their, their
grandparents now, the babyboomers right now are for are
(33:06):
going are now what mygrandparents generation was to
me, you know, they're, they'rethe kupuna. They're the elders.
And they need to step it up,because they're the ones who
basically bought into thismatrix. And they've enabled it
with their dollars, they votedwith their dollars. And they fed
and enabled this matrix, thismachine of convenience, that we
(33:28):
now have to turn the shiparound, and paddle upstream
against. And so the baby boomersgotta, they gotta change their
lifestyle. Now, they're goingthere, they got a little bit of
the kālā, they got, you know,their retirement, they've made
it out of the game, with theirSocial Security intact. They
might be the last generation tohave that. But they have that
(33:51):
little nut that they've saved.
Right, a lot of the babyboomers, they were able to
invest in purchase property,right. So they got it, they got
the property, they need to setup the next generation, the
millennials and the Gen Zʻersnow for sustainable, you know,
culture centric success, right?
Family oriented success,community oriented success,
(34:16):
rather than continue to justcruise and live the rest of
their life, then their last10-20 years, just living the
American dream because AmericanDream is dead. And you know, if
we expect the rest of us, themillennials, the Gen Zʻers and
everybody after that to have anychance at success and
(34:38):
resiliency, that baby boomersgot to support us being farmers,
and they got to support ourlifestyle. You know, we got to
make that we as individual asindividuals and as a community
need to make the conscious life,the conscious decision that
we're going to live and changeour lifestyle, and not just
suckle from the teeth of thematrix. right and just just take
(35:01):
what, what crumbs are willing togive us, right, but actually
create our own wealth, right?
create our own businesses. Andso yeah, that's what needs to
happen. We need to cultivatemore farmers. So that's what
Kauai Farm Planning does, is I'mout here trying to farm farmers,
I'm out here trying to Mālamafarmers, right, in addition to
the plants that I grow, right,and the the produce that I that
(35:25):
I support to my, my community tomy restaurants and my food
trucks, right and my and myselfreally, right, because you can't
be helping nobody, they tellyou, you got to put the mask on
yourself before you put on yourneighbor. Right. So I'm trying
to I'm trying to grow my ownfood first, everybody should be
growing their own food, first,put the mask on yourself. Every
family should have thedesignated farmer in the family
(35:47):
in the household, there's got tobe at least one person in every
local household that knows howto grow plants. Right, who's
working actively on the familyfarm, growing that thing so that
everyone else in the family whochooses to can jump out of their
matrix job that they're runninglike a hamster on the wheel,
jump out of the hamster wheelinto the family business, Right.
(36:11):
So that's the other thing KauaiFarm Planning does is I'm a
consultant for not just yourfarm, but for your family
business. Because I believe thatthat is the foundation of a
grassroots economy is that everyfamily farm also has a
tangential family business.
That's the only way to make itrather than having two matrix
(36:34):
jobs. You should have yourfarming job and your family
business that you contribute toas a family member. Right. And
if we're all running our ownfamily businesses that service
other local people, otherresidents and also the tourists,
then thatʻs how you empowercommunities.
Yeah, we don't need the matrixanymore. We're feeding
ourselves. We are creating ourown wealth with whatever service
(36:57):
or whatever good we areproducing as a family or as a
household. Right? Everyhousehold should be a cottage
business in Hawaii, everyfamily's home, their property
should produce a product or aservice a good or a service. It
shouldn't no property in thestate of Hawaii for owned by a
(37:19):
local family should simply bewhere you sleep and bathe and
eat.
Alexis (37:23):
Is that realistic for every single family to operate a
business operation?
Alex Wong (37:30):
I think it's realistic if we can fix our
public education system inHawaii,
Alexis (37:35):
Just public education or would it also include things
like health insurance andhousing. And you know
Alex Wong (37:41):
so Okay, so we're talking about a transition now.
And I'm just gonna, I'm gonnadouble down I'm gonna say, you
know, the State of Hawaii doesnot care about farmers, as it
is, they don't care. We havepoliticians who think they care.
But the fact is, is theythemselves have zero experience
farming, with the exception ofTim Richards on Big Island. I
(38:02):
don't think there's anybody elseright now, who is a
representative or a senator atthe state capitol that has any
professional experience farming.
I think there might be a couplepoliticians right now who, whose
parents were in agriculture inHawaii, or maybe agriculture
somewhere else in the mainland,but they themselves have zero
(38:25):
experience farming.
Alexis (38:28):
Tim Richards, he was a veterinarian, he's he works with
ranchers. Is he a farmerhimself?
Alex Wong (38:35):
Yes. Oh, yeah. Well, okay, so livestock. Yeah, that's
agriculture. Yeah, that'sagriculture. But my point is, is
like, we have we have we haveadvocates in our in the politics
right now in Hawaii, who saythey support farming, but
because they have zeroexperience themselves farming,
they don't know how to helpproduce the solutions to get
(39:00):
family get farming out of thedumpster right now to get out of
the red. And so when Hawaii saysthat they care about
agriculture, that's That's ***.
Our state budget alone reflectsthat. Right? What is it less
than 1% of the state budget goesdirectly to farming? Yeah, to
agriculture in Hawaii. That's***. Right? Yeah. So that that's
(39:21):
a lie. That's a straight up lie.
Hawaii, our government, theState of Hawaii does not care
about agriculture. They do notcare. And we need to change
that. We need to change thatbecause if we aren't growing our
own food, that's a that's aresiliency problem. That's the
(39:42):
sustainability problem. That's aclimate change problem. And if
the state of Hawaii and thecounties are going to use any of
those words, they need toaddress the food security issue
first. Right? Because they liketo use those words.
Alexis (39:57):
Sorry, they developed the
Alex Wong (39:58):
to push their agenda And to develop and to sell out.
That's what the state and thecounties are doing right now.
The so whole sustainability,topic and discussion has been
hijacked around permitting anddevelopment, and not around
actual community resiliency andfood security. So we need to get
that straight. And, you know, ifthe state of Hawaii really cares
(40:23):
about farmers, then they willsubsidize health care and
housing for farmers. There arezero incentives to being a
farmer in Hawaii today. So thestate of Hawaii, if they if they
care, if they, if they care atall, if our politicians care at
all, they need to put theirmoney where their mouth is, and
subsidize healthcare forfarming, because nobody wants to
farm. And that's the fact thatit's it's a labor of love. It's
(40:46):
a thankless job. And even ifeven if you were to give your
praises, and your thanks and allyour gratitude to the farmers
that doesn't pay my rent, or mymortgage, I'm sorry. But like,
it might feel nice when you saythank you, and mahalo. But the
fact is, is that's not paying mybills. It's not paying my
mortgage or my rent. And, yeah,the state of Hawaii needs to do
(41:10):
that. We subsidize tourism inHawaii, we subsidize military,
we need to subsidize foodsecurity. And in order to get
more people farming, like Iguarantee you how many Hawaiians
and local people will leavetheir day job, their matrix job,
if they were given, if they andtheir dependents were given
(41:31):
health care, and housing, theywould start farming full time, I
guarantee it, Hawaiians wouldrather be outside on the land
than doing construction, orworking in the hotels and
resorts. I guarantee it. Don'tDon't even try and argue with
that one. Like we talked, wewant to talk about culture, and
where people belong. It'soutside, all of us belong
(41:53):
outside growing plants innature, that's where we all
belong. I mean, if you if youdon't want to do that, then
yeah, you could you can work thematrix job, the matrix can keep
going, you know, because thanksto you, but and the fact is, is
we got to do this ourselves. Sowe don't need them. We don't
(42:13):
need like, politicians rightnow, garbage. So unless we, we
teach our youth the right way,with ethics, with morals, with
principles with integrity, andreplace our current politicians
with them. Like we just got towork around them, we got to work
around them, because they're notpart of the solution. Our
politicians today are not partof the solution. And the
(42:36):
solution comes from us from thecommunity, from the individual
from the family, that's wherethe solutions are going to come
from. And the fact is, is that,like I said, for you to be truly
independent, for you to besovereign, you need to be able
to grow your own food, right?
Because if you depend onsomebody else to feed you, well,
you're pretty much giving thepower to somebody else to starve
(42:57):
you. Right. And the fact is, isthat the only true sovereignty,
we could talk about Hawaiiansovereignty and the kingdom, all
we want, with the only truesovereignty is economic
sovereignty, economicsovereignty,
Alexis (43:11):
Right. And so then when, when growing your own food, it's
not just a matter of, you know,someone being able to produce
their own food, it's all theimports, it's we have degraded
soil conditions. So if you don'thave soil, you can't grow your
own food, if you don't have theinfrastructure to have a
hydroponics or an aquaponics. Orgreenhouse, you know, you're
you're limited, folks arelimited in what they can
(43:33):
produce. So I agree that it'sideal that we're all growing our
own food, you know, but there'sso many other factors that are
in play with this for us toreach this goal. And, you know,
like you said, it starts witheducation in the public school
systems, it starts withgrassroots efforts to have
community based solutions. Yeah,there's, there's so many layers
(44:00):
to this.
Alex Wong (44:00):
So, I know. I know you gotta go, Alexis. But the
last thing I just want to say,to kind of wrap up the economics
of farming in Hawaii, is, Areyou familiar with MLMs,
Alexis (44:14):
of course, multi level marketing.
Alex Wong (44:18):
So I believe that a true grassroots economy in
Hawaii, especially in thefarming community, especially
with our food, is an MLM. Everyproperty, every household, every
family needs to think ofthemselves as an MLM, as its own
entity, its own microcorporation that produces food.
(44:43):
And you know, from your familybusiness, another good or
service and whenever the foodlike that's your inventory,
right? The goal is to haveenough inventory to feed the
family or the residents on thatproperty first, and then
anything extra now that'scommercial sales. Right? So now
you're selling to therestaurant, the food truck,
(45:04):
farmer's market, you know, CSA,you know, bags or whatever
boxes. And that's your inventoryand MLM style is, you know, you
actually don't have carryinventory, right? The inventory
is like, you get throughsubscription through your market
partner, and the inventory ismailed to you or whatever. Well,
(45:27):
in a similar fashion, like youwere saying, if somebody's got
too much of something this week,well guarantee somebody else
somewhere, somebody elsesomewhere else on the island is
going to have not enough thisweek. So if we can just, you
know, create this localcommunity, local economy,
Alexis (45:45):
isn't that isn't that a similar structure to co-opʻs?
Isn't that how a co-op operates?
Because a local multilevelmarketing still has a goal to
maximize profits. And, you know,my concern, or what I would see
with that structure is anytimethat we're out to maximize
(46:06):
profits, there's always an endresult of greed. There's always
we just want more, more, more,more more. And so is that
beneficial for the community ifeverybody's money hungry to
maximize profits?
Alex Wong (46:20):
Well, okay. Here's the thing. Um... okay
Alexis (46:25):
Sorry, that might have opened a can of worms into a
whole other conversation.
Alex Wong (46:28):
Okay, if we want to talk about political economies
we can. I am not a socialist, Iam not, I'm not a capitalist.
I'm like, I'm the high happymedium, right? So capitalism,
it's in itself is inherently notevil. Profit is not evil.
Profit, by definition by Marx,Karl Marx and Engels is profit.
(46:53):
Okay, I'm gonna say this onetime. Profit is the unpaid wages
of the working class. Profit. Inother words, profit is the
unpaid wages of the employees,if your company or your business
is making profit, and youremployees are not getting their
fair share of that profit, thatis greed, that is evil
(47:16):
capitalism. But capitalism initself is not evil, as long as
there's profit sharing. And thatgoes for a farm that goes for
everything, in the capitalist,you know, philosophy and the
capitalist market. businessesand corporations need to
function in that fact thatprofit needs to be shared with
(47:39):
all of the stakeholders, all ofthe employees need to get their
fair share of that profit.
Alexis (47:46):
What is the... What's the name of the structure of a
business where it's likeemployee and community owned?
Hawaiian, Ola, the brewery, thefastest growing brewery in the
state, in Kona on Hawaii Island,they are a great example of
this, you know, they're lookingto build this large production
(48:08):
center to support local farmersand have a value added product.
But they are 100% community andemployee owned, is that is that
a dynamic is that you know, arealistic dynamic for an
approach? Thatʻs how it shouldbe.
Alex Wong (48:24):
I mean, you want to avoid too many chiefs, not
enough Indians kind ofsituation, right? You definitely
have to have certain chain ofcommand so that there's a
hierarchy of accountability,right and responsibility. But as
long as the the employees have astake, right, that's the other
thing is I'm the type of guythat first of all, I can't work
(48:46):
for somebody that is dumber thanme, that's not going to happen.
I'll respect that person as anindividual. But I cannot take
commands and orders from aperson who's not making the best
decision, right? So for me, Ican't work for somebody who's
dumber than me. That's why Ileft the government. Kidding,
kinda. But the other thing too,is like, if I work for a
(49:10):
business, like, I'm not gonnabust my ass for that business,
if I'm only getting paid anhourly wage, because me working
harder does not increase howmuch money I'm earning, even if
the business is doing better andbetter and better, because I'm
working harder and smarter andbetter. Like, if I'm still
getting paid $15 An hour or $20an hour or whatever. $60 an
(49:30):
hour. Like, I'm only going to dowhat I'm going to do and you
can't count on and I wouldconsider myself a good employee.
Right. I work hard. I havestrong work ethic, strong
discipline, you know, I'm Asian.
Yeah, my parents taught me A+ noA-, right? B, your disowned. So,
like, unless unless ouremployees are trained that way
(49:51):
and taught that way and raisedthat way, like you're not going
to count on them. So the onlyway to incentivize good employee
morale loyalty work ethic is togive them a share of the
company, right? The success ofthe company is now you know, at
stake, you know of their effort,and their input and their
passion. And if they know thatthey're gonna make a lot more
(50:12):
money, if they work harder, andthey do better, then they might
show up, you know, and and dotheir best. So yeah, that's a
big thing. I'm big on the FourAgreements, Don Miguel Ruiz,
like, I'm big on that, like, ifwe all honor that, I think it
kind of greases the wheels andhelps the communication channels
to be open. And you know, theegos to be, you know, leashed.
(50:33):
If we all honor the FourAgreements. So now we're kind of
past the time.
Alexis (50:40):
Thank you so much, Alex, for being here today, it was
such an honor to hear yourknowledge and your perspectives
and sharing so much insight forour community. I'm hopeful. I
feel mobilized after thisconversation, how do you feel?
Alex Wong (50:55):
You know, if I didn't have any hope I wouldn't be
doing this, I would completelyfollow the path of least
resistance and sell my soul andsell out like all these other
politicians, and work a sixfigure job in the matrix. But
no, I have, I have a lot of hopein this. And I have faith in my
(51:15):
community, that, you know, wewere going to get our priorities
right. And we're going to followleaders in the community who
embody Aloha, and they embodyintegrity, and they embody
values, you know, that ourculture in our community was
built on. And we're not justgoing to give the reins and the
(51:35):
control over to these peoplewith degrees, or these people
who represent, you know, certainbrand names, or corporations or
even the university, or thegovernment to, you know, dictate
this lifestyle that we aretrying to live out here in
Hawaii, you know, keepingcountry country keeping the
culture, and, you know, keepingit local, grown and local made.
(52:00):
And the only way to do that isfor us to support our, our own
families and support each other,you know, in the community. And
like I said before, we don'tneed, we don't need them. We
don't, you know, it starts outat home. It starts with, with
the individual. And, yeah, itstarts with our choices that we
make each day. You know, how wespend our money, how we vote
(52:22):
with our dollars, and who wesupport.
Alexis (52:26):
It all starts within?
Alex Wong (52:27):
Iʻm here for that!
Alexis (52:29):
You make me want to be here for that. You help. You are
very inspiring. It's, Icertainly feel honored to know
you. And thank you so much forbeing a catalyst and a pillar in
this movement. Your, Ourcommunities are lucky to have
people like you, so
Alex Wong (52:49):
Mahalo Alexis. I appreciate you.
Alexis (52:51):
Mahalo. I appreciate you. Well, let's talk story soon
again. I hope you have a greatrest of your day. Do you have a
long day ahead of you in thefarm?
Alex Wong (53:00):
I do. I do. I do have a partner now. And you know,
moving has really not been thatstressful. And you know, I'm I
have a lot of good friends outhere who offered to help me move
to so. Yeah, that's, that's agreat part about, you know,
farming and being a part of thecommunity that the community
shows up for you when you showup for them. And I'm grateful
(53:24):
and it is humbling to to beembraced, you know. So Mahalo,
Alexis. We'll talk soon. Yeah.
Alexis (53:32):
Mahalo, Alex. Talk soon.
A huihou!
Alex Wong (53:36):
Aloha!
Thao (53:38):
We want to thank our guests for their generosity and
Manalo. We also want to thankall our ag producers throughout
the islands, and especiallythose we have heard on the
podcast for discussing ways theyaddress the physical, mental,
emotional, and spiritualdimensions of Hawaii ag
production. Each story eachvoice contributes to a broader
(54:01):
understanding of what it takesto survive and thrive as we feed
our communities, wherever youmay find yourself within our
island agricultural economies.
If you would like to share yourstory, and our podcast, please
contact us. Thank you forlistening to the seeds of well
being voices from the fieldpodcast featuring their
perspectives of ag producersthroughout the Hubei islands. If
(54:24):
you have found it helpful,please follow like and share
this episode with others. And ifyou have any ideas about how we
can make it better, please letus know in the comments or use
the link on our website. Mahalofor tuning in.
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