September 12, 2025 • 50 mins
We listen to and discuss dairy farmer Jeff Corle’s song “Empty Barn” and speak with him about this song he wrote when he was "at the bottom." We find out how it helped his mental health, and what happened when it went somewhat viral and the reactions from others started to pour in. We also speak with some agriculture producers that heard Jeff’s song and they share what this song has meant to them.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resilience (CTAHR), and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Resources:
- Empty Barn video
- Abby Wiedmeyer’s article about Jeff
- Julie’s Zajac’s farm
- Denny Hutchison’s work in the ag community
- Brené Brown
- Jeff’s website
- Jeff’s YouTube channel
- Jeff’s Tiktok
- Jeff’s Instagram
- Seeds of Wellbeing’s Hawaii Ag Mentors
- Seeds of Wellbeing “Cool Mind” eBooks
Find out more about us:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim (00:04):
The views, information or opinions expressed in this
episode are solely those of theindividuals involved, and do not
necessarily represent those ofthe University of Hawaii College
of Tropical Agriculture andHuman Resilience, our funders or
any of the organizationsaffiliated with this project
Jeff Corle singing (00:30):
I can get used to not working every day,
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay. And I can
get used to a job off the farm,but I will never get used to
(00:53):
this empty barn.
Jim (01:00):
Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing "Experts in the Field"
podcast featuring Hawaiiagriculture producers and
affiliates working infield of expertise to support
agriculture in Hawaii, in theUnited States and in some cases
around the world. These podcastsare made possible by a grant
from the University of HawaiiCollege of Tropical Agriculture
and Human Resilience, also knownas CTAHR and the Seeds of
(01:22):
Wellbeing or SOW project, and issupported by a grant from the US
Department of Agriculture,National Institute of Food and
Agriculture, and the HawaiiDepartment of Agriculture.
Jeff Corle singing (01:32):
I should have known right from the start.
Dreams will only take you sofar, but letting go is so damn
(01:54):
hard. Empty barn.
Jim (01:58):
If you are a regular listener to this podcast, you
will probably notice two thingsabout this episode, one, that we
didn't use our usual ukuleletheme song to start it, and two,
that the agriculture producer weare featuring is not from
Hawaii. We just heard some ofJeff Corle's song "Empty Barn,"
and we're speaking with Jeffabout this song that he wrote
and was surprised to see gosomewhat viral. We're speaking
(02:22):
with other ag producers too,that heard Jeff's song, and they
share what this song has meantto them.
Jeff Corle singing (02:28):
I can't believe it's over after all
these years.
Jeff Corle (02:36):
So we produced organic milk with a herd of
between 40 and 50 cows.
Abby Wiedmeyer (02:42):
My husband and I are first generation dairy
farmers, I guess recoveringdairy farmers, because we're no
longer milking. So at the timethat I heard the song, we had
sold our cows, took a two yearbreak and started milking again.
Julie’s Zajac (03:02):
I grew up on a dairy farm in Northwest
Pennsylvania, and for the day,this was back in the 60s, 70s
into the 80s and beyond, we werepretty successful dairy.
Denny Hutchison (03:13):
...put together a brochure entitled, "You can't
pour from an empty cup," and hadwent over some of the general
information about mental healthproblems and then specific to
the ag community.
Jim (03:31):
So give us a little background, Jeff, just kind of a
brief history. You're, I thinkfourth generation dairyman
raised on I'm just, I'm going toparaphrase. You can tell me
where I'm wrong, but I thinkfourth generation dairyman
Pennsylvania area decided youhad the songwriting, the music
bug when you're fairly young.
Went to Nashville. Yeah. Dadcalled and said, Hey, we need
(03:54):
you back at the farm. And thenwas it 2008 maybe?
Jeff Corle (04:00):
Yeah, 2000 and yeah, 2008 is, is about when frame,
yep, yep, yeah.
Jim (04:07):
And let us know what happened you, you came back, you
came back to the family farm in2008 and then tell us what
happened and got you to towriting the song. What happened
during that time frame?
Jeff Corle (04:19):
Yeah. Well, yeah, when dad made that call and
wanted me to come home, I camehome on kind of one condition
is, and that that is that wecould transition the farm to
organic milk production. So weproduced organic milk with a
herd of between 40 and 50 cowsfrom 2008 until right around
(04:45):
2000 I guess it was the end of19, going into 20. My dad passed
away in 2019, and I decided thatit was time for me to take a
break. And I decided at thatpoint to exit the dairy
(05:06):
industry. And that was difficultin and of itself, but I was
really ready for that. That isnot what caused the song, "Empty
Barn." When dad passed, and thenext year, I decided to, you
know, shut down the commercialdairy I always say it as a joke
(05:29):
and say that at that point intime, I was ready for that, and
I thought I was cured of the cowmilking disease. But it turns
out, it was only in remission,and it came back, and I wasn't
without cows for one full year,until I got a bug to say, you
(05:51):
know, the one thing I have notdone in farming is bottle my own
milk. My great grandparents hadbottled milk on this farm from
1901 until they retired in 1956and it was just kind of always
in the back of my head that Iwanted to try that, and so I
jumped through all the hoops toset up, get the license, and set
(06:13):
up a small creamery here on thefarm, and started with four
Guernsey cows we had alwaysmilked Holsteins and a few
Jerseys, but I my greatgrandparents had always had
Guernseys, and here again, I wasjust kind of in this mode. So I
started with four Guernseys, andwas pleasantly surprised to find
(06:36):
that I could sell all the milkfrom those four Guernseys. So I
doubled to eight, and waspleasantly surprised that I
could sell all the milk fromthose eight Guernseys. So then I
went to 12 and found that Inever sold any more milk than
the eight could make. So whathappened? We're in a very rural
(06:57):
area, and the biggest city closeto us is kind of a declining old
steel mill town, and we justdidn't have a big enough
customer base to keep growingthat business to where it would
support me as a full timeincome, plus it's a lot of work
to milk cows, do the field work,and bottle the milk. Had some
(07:22):
wonderful young people whohelped on the farm and but we
just couldn't grow it bigenough. So after two years, I
realized I was going to have topull the plug on that business,
which meant having to sell thoseGuernseys. And that is what
(07:44):
absolutely broke my heart.
Because I think the first timethat I went out, I kind of
thought there was always goingto be another act. But when that
bottling operation came to anend and I had to sell those
Guernseys. I knew that that wasthe end, you know, of my dairy
farming career for sure. Plus, Inever loved animals as much as I
(08:08):
loved those Guernsey cows.
Something about that milk goingstraight from the cow down the
pipeline into our creamery,bottling it the same day and
(08:28):
having it available for ourcustomers, you know, either that
same day or the next day.
Meeting those customers face toface, having them tell me how
much they love the milk, havingmany, many of them wanting to
come down and visit with thecows. It was, it was a fantastic
business. And I wish you know wecould have grown it big enough
(08:50):
so when it came time to shut itdown and say goodbye to those
cows, it was just a veryheartbreaking experience,
Jim (09:04):
and that's where the song came from?
Jeff Corle (09:07):
Yes. So when, when I sold the cows and shut down the
business, I was literallyheartbroken, and I almost
immediately declined into a kindof a depression. And in the
(09:30):
midst of that, now, I hadalways, you alluded to the fact
that I had always messed aroundwith writing songs and playing
guitar. So in the midst of that,a friend suggested that I should
write a song about, you know,what I was feeling, and I
thought it was just too, tooclose and too personal. And he
(09:53):
even said to me, you know, Idon't know. This guy doesn't
know anything about farming. Andhe said, "I don't know anything
about farming. I don't knowanything about cows, but hearing
you describe how you feel" Hesaid, "I can't imagine what it
feels like to go into that emptybarn." And I said, Wow. Uh,
(10:15):
yeah. Okay, so I sat on it for acouple of days, went down to the
barn for the first time sincethe sale of the cows, sat down
on a five gallon bucket with myguitar and just stared at that
(10:36):
empty space. You know, it was aspace where so much of my life
had been lived from childhoodup. And any small dairy farmer
will tell you this, you're inthe barn from the time you can
toddle around, you know, maybeeven earlier. And that space
where so much of my life hadbeen lived and where so much
(10:57):
life had been, you know, just afew weeks before, and I had
dreamed some lines after myfriend and I talked, and he
said, You should write a songcalled "Empty Barn" I had
dreamed some lines to the song,and so I took out the guitar and
started fooling around withthose lines, and it just started
(11:20):
to fall into place, and Iprobably wrote empty barn in
less than an hour. And anysongwriter will tell you, the
ones that just kind of come fastand furious, they are usually
the best ones. You know, theones that you labor over and
(11:41):
labor over and labor over, theyusually sound that way. But man,
"Empty Barn." And I say when Iwhen I do my keynote concerts
and have opportunity to speak, Ioften say that I don't think I
so much wrote the song "EmptyBarn" as reached up and pulled
it from the ether, from all ofthose heartaches and emotions
(12:07):
that have been put up there inthe last while here, 10-15,
years, from farmers who wentthrough, you know, the same
thing that I did, and I reallybelieve that that it just kind
of flowed through me.
Jim (12:24):
And I've also heard you comment on your Nashville
experience and what that meantto you related to writing the
song. Do you want to you want toshare that a little bit?
Jeff Corle (12:33):
Yeah, well, when I first went to Nashville, I was
very young. I was about 22 yearsold, and I really threw myself
into learning the craft ofsongwriting. I wanted to be a
professional songwriter, andthat involved going to numerous
(12:55):
workshops and songwriter nightsand learning experiences and
learning from other songwriters,and, you know, for probably the
first year, always being told,and it's okay, but it's not
great. Then eventually, finallygetting through to the point
where, hey, people arerecognizing that you're writing
(13:15):
pretty good songs. So I like tosay Nashville taught me how to
write songs, but the farm, youknow, gave me something to write
about
Jim (13:28):
Your YouTube video, which, of course, we'll share all the
usual links, but your YouTubevideos now at over 160 160,000
views, over 250 comments on it,and it's it's moved people in
meaningful ways. I think whenyou and I talked, I think what
(13:50):
we hit upon is, as as we werereviewing things, is there's a
certain vulnerability thatyou're bringing that seems to
evoke that and make it okay forfolks that hear that song to to
feel, themselves, and allow thatto be seen. So maybe if we could
kind of focus on on that aspect,some of the reactions that
(14:13):
you've you've heard and seenfrom folks when you've spoken at
some of these different venues,I think that would be
Jeff Corle (14:18):
After "Empty Barn" went viral, I recorded an album,
interesting.
and I was able to tour. And inthe midst of that, I started to
get asked to speak about farmermental health. And actually the
first person who ever asked meto speak was a major hospital
(14:40):
system. And when the lady talkedto me on the phone, she wanted
me to come speak for their staffmental health awareness day, and
I honestly thought she had thewrong person. So I honestly said
to this woman, "You have thewrong guy. I'm not a speaker and
I don't have anything to do withmental health." And she laughed.
Laughed, and she said, "I'vebeen following your story from
(15:03):
the beginning, and your storyhas everything to do with mental
health. Just come tell yourstory." And I thought about it
for a minute, and I thought,well, I asked her, I said,
"Okay, I will do that under onecondition, and that is that I
can have my guitar with me so Ican perform 'Empty Barn.'" And
she thought that was a greatidea. I went the talk was even
(15:23):
though my knees were shaking,the talk was a big success, and
it gave birth to this thing thatI do now, which is called a
keynote concert. So I will do akeynote length address, tell my
story, and I incorporate threesongs into the story that helped
tell the story, of course,"Empty Barn" being one of them.
(15:47):
So I was doing a keynote concertfor the national farmers
organization out in Coralville,Iowa, and I was speaking from
stage, telling my story. And Inoticed there was this guy up
front. Most of the people weredressed pretty nicely. I was
(16:07):
there closing whatever. You callthat a closing pentium, or what
do you call it, whatever,anyway. So most of the people
were dressed pretty nice. Theguys out on jackets and you
know, but this guy close to thefront was a big guy, and he had
on bib overalls, a t-shirt and abaseball hat. And I noticed
(16:28):
that, and he was a younger guy,probably in his 30s, and I
noticed that as I was tellingthe story that leads up to
"Empty Barn," it looked like hewas really starting to get
emotional. And as I started toplay "Empty Barn," he really did
(16:48):
get emotional, to the pointthat, you know, he was brushing
away tears. Well after I did mything and went out to my table
to meet people, I noticed thisbig guy was in line, and when it
came his turn to come to thetable, I wanted to stand up and
(17:08):
shake his hand. So I did. Stoodup from behind my table to shake
his hand, and when I reached myhand out to shake his hand,
instead of shaking my hand, hetook my hand and he pulled me
into a bear hug. Now you can'ttell, because I'm sitting here,
but I'm six two. This guy wastowering over me. He pulls me
(17:31):
into this bear hug and literallylifted me up off my feet to the
extent I had a cowboy hat on,and my cowboy hat flew off, he
set me back down, and then helifted me up again. And as he
was doing that, he was saying,"That's the greatest song ever!
(17:51):
That's the greatest song ever!"And I think that people in line
thought I was being murdered orsomething, because I also
couldn't breathe. I was likeargh. So anyway, after about
three of those, he sat me back,he put me back on my feet.
Somebody got my hat and handedmy hat back to me. And I looked
(18:12):
at this guy, and I said, "Man,what's going on?" And he didn't
know me before this event. Hehad never heard the song "Empty
Barn," so it totally took him bysurprise. And what he related to
me was that when he was in highschool, his parents decided to
(18:33):
go, they were dairy farmers, andthey decided to go out of
business. And the whole dream ofhis life was that he was going
to take over the farm after hegraduated high school. The
economics just weren't there, sothey decided to go out. And in
his case, his dad was reallytore up about this, and he
(19:01):
decided that he was going to bethe strong one in the family.
And he told me that it even fellon him to handle a lot of the
details of the sale, the sale ofthe cattle. And he decided he
would be strong for his dad, andwouldn't let on how much it
(19:24):
affected him, and if I'm notcareful, I'll get emotional when
I tell this story. So what hetold me was that when he heard
my story and heard the song andstarted to get emotional, that
that was the first time sincethat day when the cows were
(19:48):
sold, that he had allowedhimself to grieve. And that's
when I realized I'm speaking toguys that look like me, you
know, literally, figuratively.
Guys who don't realize that it'sokay to tell people when they're
(20:12):
hurting. I always say, guys thatlook like me, we're never the
ones to raise our hands and say,excuse me, I'd like to tell you
how I'm feeling today, andthat's the biggest part of my
message is to say, you know, theworst thing in the world you can
do is keep all that stuffinside. And just to finish that
(20:33):
story, that guy told me thatever since high school, when his
parents went out of business andsold the cows, he had walked
around with a chip on hisshoulder, and he said he was
certain that it even created abarrier with his wife, because
he had never even told his wife.
(20:54):
He met her later, he had nevereven told her about much about
the farm or how much it meant tohim, and he concluded that day
by telling me he'd be going homeand talking to his wife.
Abby Wiedmeyer (21:12):
When I heard the song, I remembered the
heartbreak of selling our cows,but was feeling a little bit
healed because we were milkingagain so, but I just knew that
people were going to resonatewith it, and they did. So the
song, the lyrics are, like Isaid, accurate, and then the
(21:38):
music with it is just kind of,it's a little bit haunting, I
guess, in the in a good way. Imean, you can't listen to it and
not cry. If you've ever hadcows, if you grew up on a farm,
or if you, if you were a farmeryourself, you just can't.
There's, there's lines in thereabout like, "wish I didn't have
(22:06):
to be the one." And I know thatfor a lot of generational
farmers that had to sell theircows, that's besides losing
their cows and their lifestyleand now they their whole life is
changing. They need to go get ajob. Another line that
resonates, you know, "I can getused to getting a job off the
farm" and all. There's a lot ofthings we can get used to.
Julie’s Zajac (22:31):
With my brothers having a stroke, he did not have
a family. Had been single allhis life, and so there are three
remaining siblings ralliedaround him, but the lesson of
his life is the fact that he,you know, was the strong man. He
(22:52):
never would admit being weak,having any vulnerabilities, even
when he was showing signs of astroke, and the neighbors were
kind of saying, "John, you needto do something." He denied it.
He denied it to the point wherehe suffered a massive brainstem
stroke. So, you know, the youknow, farm life is challenging,
(23:14):
of course, in every way, shapeand form. One point it was a 500
acre, nearly 500 acre dairyfarm. We did hay, corn for the
cows. I remember doing oats,that was always a fun time as a
family and. But, you know, butlong story short, because of his
(23:37):
stroke, because of the way thatfarmers, for better or worse, he
did, he had insurance, butinsurance cut him off. So guess
what we had to do? We had tosell land. We had to sell his
equipment.
Denny Hutchison (23:50):
You know, I've never had anybody disagree, any
farmer disagree, when I saywe're very stubborn. We don't
trust anybody. We're not goingto go to the doctor till the leg
falls off, you know? And this issomething that, and it's not a
right or a wrong, but it's asituation where I'm not sure the
(24:12):
general public has a grasp onwhat that is. And one of the
biggest things in agriculture isthe legacy. I mean, in Somerset
County, Shawn Saylor, who's ourvice president, is fifth
generation dairy farmer, and hehas said, If I'm the one that
(24:37):
has to say, "We can't make aliving out of this anymore, and
we have to sell everything" hesaid to his wife, "we have to
move out of the area. I can't bethe one to drive by this land
knowing that I was the one thatsold it."
Jeff Corle (24:59):
I would say, writing "Empty Barn" changed my life.
But I realized, especially afterI came upon the work of a lady
named Brene Brown, who speakseloquently and writes eloquently
about vulnerability, I realizedthere was a step before the
writing process, and that wasallowing myself to be vulnerable
(25:21):
enough to put what I was feelinginto the words of a song. After,
and that, in and of itself, wasa very cathartic experience. I
would encourage anybody who'sgoing through something to write
about it. You know, you don'thave to write a song, but
journaling is a, you know,similar thing. It's just
(25:44):
something about that physicalact of writing this stuff down,
you know, it's coming out andyou're getting it onto a page.
So writing the song, beingvulnerable, was a cathartic
experience in and of itself. Butthen I made the mistake of
playing the song for one person,which was a female friend, and
(26:05):
she loved it, and insisted thatI put it up on my farm's
Facebook page, I didn't evenhave a music page or anything,
and make it available fordownload. And she showed me how
to do it, and we put it upthere, and I never gave it a
second thought. And I came backto the computer about four hours
later, and was shocked to seethat this song had been
(26:28):
downloaded like 300 times. And Isaid to this friend of mine,
well, great. Now 300 some peopleknow what an emotional sap I
really am. And it only wentdownhill from there, Jim,
because in the coming days, itstarted to get shared in farm
groups, and it it started beingdownloaded 1000s of times. That
(26:51):
was the first little taste ofvirality. But I'm telling you
that, to tell you this, whatcame along with all those
downloads were the mostwonderful comments of love,
support and encouragement, youknow, from people who were
relating to the song. And thatwas kind of the next step in
(27:14):
this healing process was that Isaw that other people are going
through similar things, thatother people do, in fact, care
about me, and that there arepeople out there who are willing
to help me and support me. Andwhen I do my talk, this is
another joke that I make, I'llsay, "Hey guys, come here. I
(27:34):
gotta tell you something. Itturns out, if you tell people
how you're feeling, they canhelp you. Who knew I sure
didn't." But at any rate, thatwas the next phase of my healing
process. For me, was seeing allthose wonderful comments of love
(27:57):
and encouragement, and thenpeople telling me, "Hey, you got
to do something with yourmusic." When one door closes,
another one opens, and throughthe bizarre series of events, I
think it was about within sixweeks of having written "Empty
Barn," I was in an in arecording studio in Nashville,
(28:18):
recording it professionally withsome of the greatest musicians
on the planet.
Jim (28:23):
Successful career, are you making that? What, what's tell
me what, what next moves arewas, Are you a musician now? Are
you a farmer? What's what'shappened to the farm? What's
going on Jeff?
Jeff Corle (28:33):
Yeah, I used to say that I'm a farmer who sings and
writes songs, and now I thinkI'm more of a singer and a
songwriter who also farms. Yeah,I got busy, you know, I just
realized it was going to beimpossible for me to be doing
this music thing and also farm.
So we didn't have any animalafter the sale of the cows, we
(28:57):
didn't have any animals on thefarm. And I was approached by a
young guy who wanted to rent theland. So actually, our home farm
is 100 acres, so I actuallyrented the ground to this young
guy who's farming, and which,that's a whole nother thing. You
know when, when I was at theheight of my farming, milking 50
(29:19):
cows with my dad, we farmed ourhome farm, and we farmed the
four farms around us. So wefarmed about between five and
600 acres to obviously grow feedto feed the cows. And this kid
that's farming my ground, hepicked up all those farms that I
farmed, and I wanted to ride inhis big combine with him when he
(29:41):
combined his corn last fall. Andso we're in the combine, and I'm
amazed at all this. You know, Inever had anything like that,
and it actually had a passengerseat. And I said to him, "How
much ground are you farmingnow?" Yeah. And he said, "Well,
you know, Jeff, we're awfullysmall." He said, "We're just
(30:03):
about too small to survive." Hesaid, "At this point, since we
picked up your farm and thefarms around you, all we got is
about 2000 acres."
Jim (30:17):
Hawaii, the 75% of the farms are 10 acres or less, so
just for a little littleperspective on scale. But what
are you seeing as far as farms,and what's going on with farms,
farm closures? I mean, a lot ofpeople are reaching out to you
about it. I think have you seenan increase? Do you think things
(30:39):
like that there is an increasein farm closures? What is the
mainland farming situation fromyour perspective and the people
that share with you?
Jeff Corle (30:49):
Yeah, well, there's definitely a huge decline in
small and mid sized farms. Youknow, if you just take my own
area for an example here, when Iwas growing up and I graduated
high school in 1985 so when Iwas growing up in the 70s and
80s, our little town had 27licensed bulk tanks. So 27
(31:14):
licensed dairy farms. I happento have been the last one to
quit. So now there are zerodairy farms in my little area
here. So and when I was growingup, people made a solid, you
know, middle class income,milking those 30-40 cows and
(31:37):
farming, even sometimes as smallas 50-60 acres, and then buying
in some feed, whatever. That allhas pretty much totally gone by
the wayside. And as I've gottenout and talked to people about
this, it's happening everywhere,all all across. Everybody has
the same story that I just told.
When I was growing up all of ourneighbors were dairy farmers,
(31:57):
now there are none. Or one bigfarm, or two big farms buy up
all the ground and they milk,you know, multiple hundreds of
cows now, sometimes multiple1000s of cows. And something
I've started saying is thatnobody really in the general
public is where is really awareof this, because our previous
(32:22):
farm crisis, so in the late 70s,early 80s, a lot of those farms
got super laden with debt, andwhen the commodity prices
collapsed, those farms had noway to pay their mortgages, and
they started to get foreclosedon. And that was national news,
all these farm auctions, allthese foreclosures, that was
(32:45):
national news. Now it's not somuch farm foreclosures as it is
just closures. You know, the thefarms just going out of
business, like in my case, Ikept my farm, but I had to shut
down my enterprise because Ijust couldn't even barely break
even on it. So I don't thinkpeople are aware of this massive
(33:10):
decline. And I think the averageAmerican, if they drive out in
the country and they see a barnwith those silos, they think
that farm is still in operationin farming, but in reality, like
in my area, all those with thisbreaks my heart too. All there
are lots of nice facilities. Ihave a neighbor down the road
(33:34):
that built a new facility in themid 80s, about the time I was
graduating high school, and itwas designed for 80 cows. It was
a, it was a tie stall barn with80 cows. It had a big loafing
shed, two huge, so what weconsidered huge silos at the
time. And you know, whatever itis, 20-30, years later, that
(33:58):
sits empty. He went out ofbusiness about 10 years ago, and
a facility like that designed tomilk 80 to 100 cows is really
pretty much obsolete now. So itjust boggles my mind that you're
not we're not talking aboutlittle podunk operations that,
okay, time moves on, and, youknow, we're talking about people
(34:21):
who invested their lives andlots of money and capital into
building facilities that are nowcompletely obsolete. So that's,
you know, to me, it's just mindboggling and and heartbreaking
Jim (34:38):
And probably a little concerning as far as you know,
food quality and ability to belocally sustainable, but I think
that's something that's, that'sa big initiative here in Hawaii,
in the middle of the Pacific,right? That's, that's certainly
a focus for folks here.
Jeff Corle (34:55):
Well, you know, one thing to add to that is when a
certain when you kind of meet,reach a tipping point to where,
when so many of these farms goout of business, then the whole
rest of the ecosystem collapses.
So the feed mills collapse, youknow, the feed mills go out of
(35:15):
business, the equipment dealersgo out of business, you know,
the milking machine maintenancepeople all go out of business,
and where you had this vibrant,thriving ecosystem, now you
basically have nothing. So it's,it's, it's hard to get your mind
around how fast it has changed,I guess is what I'm trying to
(35:38):
say.
Jim (35:40):
I think as we we start to wrap, I want people to, I would
like you to share with peoplewhere they can find out or
follow what you're doing andfind out more about your music.
Maybe you're if you're comingout with a new album, or if
you're going on tour related toeven some of the speaking
engagements. Is there a spotthat you like to, so I know you
have Instagram, Facebook. Anysuggestions on where people
(36:03):
should find and follow you?
Jeff Corle (36:07):
Yeah, well, my main hub is my website, which is
www.JeffCorleMusic.com. You canfind all things Jeff Corle
there. I have a heavy, heavypresence on YouTube. Just look
for Jeff Corle on YouTube. Notso much, I am on Instagram. You
(36:29):
can find me there, but my otherbig one is Tiktok so you can
find my tiktoks. And I have apretty good following there.
Jim (36:38):
Sounds good. I think what we like to do is, because our
focus for the Seeds of Wellbeingproject is ag producer mental
health and ways to cope, anywords of wisdom that you want to
share for our ag producers outthere?
Jeff Corle (36:55):
Yeah, well, just what I said before. My core
message is, especially to guys,I know you were raised to grin
and bear it. We were talkingabout this earlier. Your dad
drilled that into you. Yourgrandpap drilled that into you.
That's the nature of farming.
You know, if you have a badyear, you're going to have it,
(37:17):
you know, there's always nextyear you have a bad spring,
things will turn around. Butwith your mental health,
especially if you're goingthrough a farm closure, or a
farm transition, or facing theprospect of that, you got to
talk about it. You even you knowone family member, one, your
(37:39):
best friend, if you can go tothem and say, "I really got to
tell you, I'm going throughsomething." I know guys, your
instinct is to keep that inside,but I will guarantee you that's
the absolute worst thing you cando. And you know, just, just to
(37:59):
add on to that, something wedidn't mention earlier, there's
a statistic out now that farmersare three and a half times more
likely to die by suicide thanthe general public. So why is
that? I think it's two things,financial stress that so many
(38:20):
farmers are experiencing,coupled with this idea that I
can get through this, I'm goingto keep it inside and worst
thing you can do,
Jim (38:32):
We thank Jeff for sharing the song and his story with us.
We're also grateful to Abby,Julie and Denny for talking with
us about their reaction to andconnection with "Empty Barn" and
Jeff. It is worth noting thatJeff wanted to have a few more
people share their perspectives,especially guys that look like
him, as he puts it. And althoughwe reached out to a few of those
(38:53):
guys, they declined to be on thepodcast. Jeff imagines it's
because of the stigma of showingvulnerability and asking for
help as a male farmer inAmerica, and it's such a strong
force. Hopefully to help addressgrowing mental health issues
among that population, thatforce can be overcome,
especially when they need help,and perhaps we can see
vulnerability go viral. Let'shear some final words from these
(39:16):
folks, and if you listen to theend of the podcast, we will play
the song "Empty Barn" in itsentirety. Mahalo.
Abby Wiedmeyer (39:22):
I think probably a lot of farmers struggle with
this, and they don't evenrealize it, but a lot of times
we we equate our productivity toour value and our worthiness,
and they're not the same thing.
You know, the more productiveyou are is not the more valuable
that you are, that every humanis valuable and worthy just
because they exist and justexactly as they exist, and even
(39:45):
if you do nothing but sit on thecouch for a whole day, you're
still valuable and wortheverything that you are if you
work 100 hours a week.
Julie’s Zajac (39:57):
My plea to people is to recognize that there are
people around you that arewilling to listen. And I mean,
it doesn't have to be pouringyour heart out. It's just
actually having a humanconnection and just making the
(40:17):
time to you know whether, and Irealized farmers are remote, so
it's difficult to say, "Hey, I'mjust going to drop by." But you
know, I prefer in person,because it's, to me, it's more
meaningful, right? It's, it'sthat authentic experience. But
(40:38):
you know, of course, this dayand age, here we are. You're in
Hawaii, I'm in Georgia. We'rehaving this conversation. So the
technology does allow for peopleto engage. And so just, you
know, I would beg people toallow themselves. It's okay to
(40:59):
reach out, just to chat. And,you know, there are a number of
help lines that I've seen thatare designated for farmers, and
I would encourage reaching outthere.
Denny Hutchison (41:14):
I think that the biggest thing in my mind
it's it's simple and it'scomplicated and it's difficult,
and that's to go to somebody andsay, "Are you doing okay with
your mental health?" But to beable to ask that question, and
the flip side of that is whensomebody asks you that question,
(41:38):
to be brutally honest, and tosay, if you're having problems,
to be able to say, "You know,no, I'm not. I'm not doing okay.
I need some help somewhere."
Jim (41:51):
I'll actually use that as a way to put in a plug for some of
the things the Seeds ofWellbeing is doing on the Hawaii
Islands, which is findingformally setting up peer support
options for ag producers, sothere are people that get it,
and are there to help and arethere to listen. So please check
out our website and the linksthat you see there to try to get
(42:12):
help and find folks that atleast just have the sympathy and
empathy, right, that isimportant when you're going
through some tough times, whichanyone in ag goes through
regularly.
Jeff Corle (42:23):
Yeah, absolutely, really, it's really important
what you're doing, because it'sreally important for farmers to
talk to other farmers, becausevery few people in the general
public understand this. If Itell you, like I told you and
got emotional earlier, how muchI loved those cows and how much
it broke my heart to say goodbyeto them, you know, the average
(42:48):
person on the street is going tolook at you like, are you crazy?
And they were just cows, youknow. Or even, you know, a multi
generation crop farm, whatever.
You know that dad worked thisground, grandpap worked this
ground, and here I am the onewho's going to bring it to an
end. It's really important totalk to other farmers.
Jim (43:11):
Thank you, Jeff. I really appreciate your time and and
I'll be and I'll be listening toyour music. I just some of them
I just get such a kick out of.
And what I suggest to folks isjust, even if you just plug,
plug Jeff's song into yourSpotify, or your music player, I
you know, and the AIs kind ofcome up and try to find songs
that are similar, that can befun too.
Jeff Corle (43:34):
Well, yeah. I mean, if I can leave, leave you on
this note too, right? So "EmptyBarn" was the bottom of the
story. You know, that was thetrough. After things started
happening, and I was able to getout there and write some more
music and record my album then Iwas able to take a little bit of
(43:55):
a lighter approach and writeabout some of the more fun
aspects of farming. All my songsare farm related, but, yeah, I'm
not going to leave you down inthat drop. You'll find some
music that will put a smile onyour face.
Jim (44:11):
Absolutely. Thanks again, Jeff. Um, take care and keep
writing those songs.
Jeff Corle (44:15):
Okay? Thank you.
Thao (44:17):
The intention of these podcast series is to create a
safe space for a respectful andinclusive dialog with people
from across a broad and diversespectrum involved in growing and
making accessible the food weshare together. A diversity of
voices, perspectives andexperiences can serve to deepen
mutual understanding, to sparkcreative problem solving, and
(44:41):
provide insight into thecomplexities of our agriculture
system. If you, our listeners,have experiences with Hawaii
agriculture ecosystem fromindigenous methods,
permaculture, smallholderfarmers to large including
multinational agriculturalindustrial companies, and
everywhere in between, and youwould like to share your story,
(45:04):
please contact us. We welcomeyour voices and perspectives.
Jeff Corle singing (45:08):
I can get used to not working every day,
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay, and
(45:46):
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay. I can get
(49:06):
used to a job off the farm, butI will never get used to this
empty barn. No, I will willnever get used to this empty
(49:27):
barn.
The views, information or opinions expressed in this
episode are solely those of theindividuals involved, and do not
necessarily represent those ofthe University of Hawaii College
of Tropical Agriculture andHuman Resilience, our funders or
any of the organizationsaffiliated with this project
Jeff Corle singing (00:30):
I can get used to not working every day,
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay. And I can
get used to a job off the farm,but I will never get used to
(00:53):
this empty barn.
Jim (01:00):
Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing "Experts in the Field"
podcast featuring Hawaiiagriculture producers and
affiliates working infield of expertise to support
agriculture in Hawaii, in theUnited States and in some cases
around the world. These podcastsare made possible by a grant
from the University of HawaiiCollege of Tropical Agriculture
and Human Resilience, also knownas CTAHR and the Seeds of
(01:22):
Wellbeing or SOW project, and issupported by a grant from the US
Department of Agriculture,National Institute of Food and
Agriculture, and the HawaiiDepartment of Agriculture.
Jeff Corle singing (01:32):
I should have known right from the start.
Dreams will only take you sofar, but letting go is so damn
(01:54):
hard. Empty barn.
Jim (01:58):
If you are a regular listener to this podcast, you
will probably notice two thingsabout this episode, one, that we
didn't use our usual ukuleletheme song to start it, and two,
that the agriculture producer weare featuring is not from
Hawaii. We just heard some ofJeff Corle's song "Empty Barn,"
and we're speaking with Jeffabout this song that he wrote
and was surprised to see gosomewhat viral. We're speaking
(02:22):
with other ag producers too,that heard Jeff's song, and they
share what this song has meantto them.
Jeff Corle singing (02:28):
I can't believe it's over after all
these years.
Jeff Corle (02:36):
So we produced organic milk with a herd of
between 40 and 50 cows.
Abby Wiedmeyer (02:42):
My husband and I are first generation dairy
farmers, I guess recoveringdairy farmers, because we're no
longer milking. So at the timethat I heard the song, we had
sold our cows, took a two yearbreak and started milking again.
Julie’s Zajac (03:02):
I grew up on a dairy farm in Northwest
Pennsylvania, and for the day,this was back in the 60s, 70s
into the 80s and beyond, we werepretty successful dairy.
Denny Hutchison (03:13):
...put together a brochure entitled, "You can't
pour from an empty cup," and hadwent over some of the general
information about mental healthproblems and then specific to
the ag community.
Jim (03:31):
So give us a little background, Jeff, just kind of a
brief history. You're, I thinkfourth generation dairyman
raised on I'm just, I'm going toparaphrase. You can tell me
where I'm wrong, but I thinkfourth generation dairyman
Pennsylvania area decided youhad the songwriting, the music
bug when you're fairly young.
Went to Nashville. Yeah. Dadcalled and said, Hey, we need
(03:54):
you back at the farm. And thenwas it 2008 maybe?
Jeff Corle (04:00):
Yeah, 2000 and yeah, 2008 is, is about when frame,
yep, yep, yeah.
Jim (04:07):
And let us know what happened you, you came back, you
came back to the family farm in2008 and then tell us what
happened and got you to towriting the song. What happened
during that time frame?
Jeff Corle (04:19):
Yeah. Well, yeah, when dad made that call and
wanted me to come home, I camehome on kind of one condition
is, and that that is that wecould transition the farm to
organic milk production. So weproduced organic milk with a
herd of between 40 and 50 cowsfrom 2008 until right around
(04:45):
2000 I guess it was the end of19, going into 20. My dad passed
away in 2019, and I decided thatit was time for me to take a
break. And I decided at thatpoint to exit the dairy
(05:06):
industry. And that was difficultin and of itself, but I was
really ready for that. That isnot what caused the song, "Empty
Barn." When dad passed, and thenext year, I decided to, you
know, shut down the commercialdairy I always say it as a joke
(05:29):
and say that at that point intime, I was ready for that, and
I thought I was cured of the cowmilking disease. But it turns
out, it was only in remission,and it came back, and I wasn't
without cows for one full year,until I got a bug to say, you
(05:51):
know, the one thing I have notdone in farming is bottle my own
milk. My great grandparents hadbottled milk on this farm from
1901 until they retired in 1956and it was just kind of always
in the back of my head that Iwanted to try that, and so I
jumped through all the hoops toset up, get the license, and set
(06:13):
up a small creamery here on thefarm, and started with four
Guernsey cows we had alwaysmilked Holsteins and a few
Jerseys, but I my greatgrandparents had always had
Guernseys, and here again, I wasjust kind of in this mode. So I
started with four Guernseys, andwas pleasantly surprised to find
(06:36):
that I could sell all the milkfrom those four Guernseys. So I
doubled to eight, and waspleasantly surprised that I
could sell all the milk fromthose eight Guernseys. So then I
went to 12 and found that Inever sold any more milk than
the eight could make. So whathappened? We're in a very rural
(06:57):
area, and the biggest city closeto us is kind of a declining old
steel mill town, and we justdidn't have a big enough
customer base to keep growingthat business to where it would
support me as a full timeincome, plus it's a lot of work
to milk cows, do the field work,and bottle the milk. Had some
(07:22):
wonderful young people whohelped on the farm and but we
just couldn't grow it bigenough. So after two years, I
realized I was going to have topull the plug on that business,
which meant having to sell thoseGuernseys. And that is what
(07:44):
absolutely broke my heart.
Because I think the first timethat I went out, I kind of
thought there was always goingto be another act. But when that
bottling operation came to anend and I had to sell those
Guernseys. I knew that that wasthe end, you know, of my dairy
farming career for sure. Plus, Inever loved animals as much as I
(08:08):
loved those Guernsey cows.
Something about that milk goingstraight from the cow down the
pipeline into our creamery,bottling it the same day and
(08:28):
having it available for ourcustomers, you know, either that
same day or the next day.
Meeting those customers face toface, having them tell me how
much they love the milk, havingmany, many of them wanting to
come down and visit with thecows. It was, it was a fantastic
business. And I wish you know wecould have grown it big enough
(08:50):
so when it came time to shut itdown and say goodbye to those
cows, it was just a veryheartbreaking experience,
Jim (09:04):
and that's where the song came from?
Jeff Corle (09:07):
Yes. So when, when I sold the cows and shut down the
business, I was literallyheartbroken, and I almost
immediately declined into a kindof a depression. And in the
(09:30):
midst of that, now, I hadalways, you alluded to the fact
that I had always messed aroundwith writing songs and playing
guitar. So in the midst of that,a friend suggested that I should
write a song about, you know,what I was feeling, and I
thought it was just too, tooclose and too personal. And he
(09:53):
even said to me, you know, Idon't know. This guy doesn't
know anything about farming. Andhe said, "I don't know anything
about farming. I don't knowanything about cows, but hearing
you describe how you feel" Hesaid, "I can't imagine what it
feels like to go into that emptybarn." And I said, Wow. Uh,
(10:15):
yeah. Okay, so I sat on it for acouple of days, went down to the
barn for the first time sincethe sale of the cows, sat down
on a five gallon bucket with myguitar and just stared at that
(10:36):
empty space. You know, it was aspace where so much of my life
had been lived from childhoodup. And any small dairy farmer
will tell you this, you're inthe barn from the time you can
toddle around, you know, maybeeven earlier. And that space
where so much of my life hadbeen lived and where so much
(10:57):
life had been, you know, just afew weeks before, and I had
dreamed some lines after myfriend and I talked, and he
said, You should write a songcalled "Empty Barn" I had
dreamed some lines to the song,and so I took out the guitar and
started fooling around withthose lines, and it just started
(11:20):
to fall into place, and Iprobably wrote empty barn in
less than an hour. And anysongwriter will tell you, the
ones that just kind of come fastand furious, they are usually
the best ones. You know, theones that you labor over and
(11:41):
labor over and labor over, theyusually sound that way. But man,
"Empty Barn." And I say when Iwhen I do my keynote concerts
and have opportunity to speak, Ioften say that I don't think I
so much wrote the song "EmptyBarn" as reached up and pulled
it from the ether, from all ofthose heartaches and emotions
(12:07):
that have been put up there inthe last while here, 10-15,
years, from farmers who wentthrough, you know, the same
thing that I did, and I reallybelieve that that it just kind
of flowed through me.
Jim (12:24):
And I've also heard you comment on your Nashville
experience and what that meantto you related to writing the
song. Do you want to you want toshare that a little bit?
Jeff Corle (12:33):
Yeah, well, when I first went to Nashville, I was
very young. I was about 22 yearsold, and I really threw myself
into learning the craft ofsongwriting. I wanted to be a
professional songwriter, andthat involved going to numerous
(12:55):
workshops and songwriter nightsand learning experiences and
learning from other songwriters,and, you know, for probably the
first year, always being told,and it's okay, but it's not
great. Then eventually, finallygetting through to the point
where, hey, people arerecognizing that you're writing
(13:15):
pretty good songs. So I like tosay Nashville taught me how to
write songs, but the farm, youknow, gave me something to write
about
Jim (13:28):
Your YouTube video, which, of course, we'll share all the
usual links, but your YouTubevideos now at over 160 160,000
views, over 250 comments on it,and it's it's moved people in
meaningful ways. I think whenyou and I talked, I think what
(13:50):
we hit upon is, as as we werereviewing things, is there's a
certain vulnerability thatyou're bringing that seems to
evoke that and make it okay forfolks that hear that song to to
feel, themselves, and allow thatto be seen. So maybe if we could
kind of focus on on that aspect,some of the reactions that
(14:13):
you've you've heard and seenfrom folks when you've spoken at
some of these different venues,I think that would be
Jeff Corle (14:18):
After "Empty Barn" went viral, I recorded an album,
interesting.
and I was able to tour. And inthe midst of that, I started to
get asked to speak about farmermental health. And actually the
first person who ever asked meto speak was a major hospital
(14:40):
system. And when the lady talkedto me on the phone, she wanted
me to come speak for their staffmental health awareness day, and
I honestly thought she had thewrong person. So I honestly said
to this woman, "You have thewrong guy. I'm not a speaker and
I don't have anything to do withmental health." And she laughed.
Laughed, and she said, "I'vebeen following your story from
(15:03):
the beginning, and your storyhas everything to do with mental
health. Just come tell yourstory." And I thought about it
for a minute, and I thought,well, I asked her, I said,
"Okay, I will do that under onecondition, and that is that I
can have my guitar with me so Ican perform 'Empty Barn.'" And
she thought that was a greatidea. I went the talk was even
(15:23):
though my knees were shaking,the talk was a big success, and
it gave birth to this thing thatI do now, which is called a
keynote concert. So I will do akeynote length address, tell my
story, and I incorporate threesongs into the story that helped
tell the story, of course,"Empty Barn" being one of them.
(15:47):
So I was doing a keynote concertfor the national farmers
organization out in Coralville,Iowa, and I was speaking from
stage, telling my story. And Inoticed there was this guy up
front. Most of the people weredressed pretty nicely. I was
(16:07):
there closing whatever. You callthat a closing pentium, or what
do you call it, whatever,anyway. So most of the people
were dressed pretty nice. Theguys out on jackets and you
know, but this guy close to thefront was a big guy, and he had
on bib overalls, a t-shirt and abaseball hat. And I noticed
(16:28):
that, and he was a younger guy,probably in his 30s, and I
noticed that as I was tellingthe story that leads up to
"Empty Barn," it looked like hewas really starting to get
emotional. And as I started toplay "Empty Barn," he really did
(16:48):
get emotional, to the pointthat, you know, he was brushing
away tears. Well after I did mything and went out to my table
to meet people, I noticed thisbig guy was in line, and when it
came his turn to come to thetable, I wanted to stand up and
(17:08):
shake his hand. So I did. Stoodup from behind my table to shake
his hand, and when I reached myhand out to shake his hand,
instead of shaking my hand, hetook my hand and he pulled me
into a bear hug. Now you can'ttell, because I'm sitting here,
but I'm six two. This guy wastowering over me. He pulls me
(17:31):
into this bear hug and literallylifted me up off my feet to the
extent I had a cowboy hat on,and my cowboy hat flew off, he
set me back down, and then helifted me up again. And as he
was doing that, he was saying,"That's the greatest song ever!
(17:51):
That's the greatest song ever!"And I think that people in line
thought I was being murdered orsomething, because I also
couldn't breathe. I was likeargh. So anyway, after about
three of those, he sat me back,he put me back on my feet.
Somebody got my hat and handedmy hat back to me. And I looked
(18:12):
at this guy, and I said, "Man,what's going on?" And he didn't
know me before this event. Hehad never heard the song "Empty
Barn," so it totally took him bysurprise. And what he related to
me was that when he was in highschool, his parents decided to
(18:33):
go, they were dairy farmers, andthey decided to go out of
business. And the whole dream ofhis life was that he was going
to take over the farm after hegraduated high school. The
economics just weren't there, sothey decided to go out. And in
his case, his dad was reallytore up about this, and he
(19:01):
decided that he was going to bethe strong one in the family.
And he told me that it even fellon him to handle a lot of the
details of the sale, the sale ofthe cattle. And he decided he
would be strong for his dad, andwouldn't let on how much it
(19:24):
affected him, and if I'm notcareful, I'll get emotional when
I tell this story. So what hetold me was that when he heard
my story and heard the song andstarted to get emotional, that
that was the first time sincethat day when the cows were
(19:48):
sold, that he had allowedhimself to grieve. And that's
when I realized I'm speaking toguys that look like me, you
know, literally, figuratively.
Guys who don't realize that it'sokay to tell people when they're
(20:12):
hurting. I always say, guys thatlook like me, we're never the
ones to raise our hands and say,excuse me, I'd like to tell you
how I'm feeling today, andthat's the biggest part of my
message is to say, you know, theworst thing in the world you can
do is keep all that stuffinside. And just to finish that
(20:33):
story, that guy told me thatever since high school, when his
parents went out of business andsold the cows, he had walked
around with a chip on hisshoulder, and he said he was
certain that it even created abarrier with his wife, because
he had never even told his wife.
(20:54):
He met her later, he had nevereven told her about much about
the farm or how much it meant tohim, and he concluded that day
by telling me he'd be going homeand talking to his wife.
Abby Wiedmeyer (21:12):
When I heard the song, I remembered the
heartbreak of selling our cows,but was feeling a little bit
healed because we were milkingagain so, but I just knew that
people were going to resonatewith it, and they did. So the
song, the lyrics are, like Isaid, accurate, and then the
(21:38):
music with it is just kind of,it's a little bit haunting, I
guess, in the in a good way. Imean, you can't listen to it and
not cry. If you've ever hadcows, if you grew up on a farm,
or if you, if you were a farmeryourself, you just can't.
There's, there's lines in thereabout like, "wish I didn't have
(22:06):
to be the one." And I know thatfor a lot of generational
farmers that had to sell theircows, that's besides losing
their cows and their lifestyleand now they their whole life is
changing. They need to go get ajob. Another line that
resonates, you know, "I can getused to getting a job off the
farm" and all. There's a lot ofthings we can get used to.
Julie’s Zajac (22:31):
With my brothers having a stroke, he did not have
a family. Had been single allhis life, and so there are three
remaining siblings ralliedaround him, but the lesson of
his life is the fact that he,you know, was the strong man. He
(22:52):
never would admit being weak,having any vulnerabilities, even
when he was showing signs of astroke, and the neighbors were
kind of saying, "John, you needto do something." He denied it.
He denied it to the point wherehe suffered a massive brainstem
stroke. So, you know, the youknow, farm life is challenging,
(23:14):
of course, in every way, shapeand form. One point it was a 500
acre, nearly 500 acre dairyfarm. We did hay, corn for the
cows. I remember doing oats,that was always a fun time as a
family and. But, you know, butlong story short, because of his
(23:37):
stroke, because of the way thatfarmers, for better or worse, he
did, he had insurance, butinsurance cut him off. So guess
what we had to do? We had tosell land. We had to sell his
equipment.
Denny Hutchison (23:50):
You know, I've never had anybody disagree, any
farmer disagree, when I saywe're very stubborn. We don't
trust anybody. We're not goingto go to the doctor till the leg
falls off, you know? And this issomething that, and it's not a
right or a wrong, but it's asituation where I'm not sure the
(24:12):
general public has a grasp onwhat that is. And one of the
biggest things in agriculture isthe legacy. I mean, in Somerset
County, Shawn Saylor, who's ourvice president, is fifth
generation dairy farmer, and hehas said, If I'm the one that
(24:37):
has to say, "We can't make aliving out of this anymore, and
we have to sell everything" hesaid to his wife, "we have to
move out of the area. I can't bethe one to drive by this land
knowing that I was the one thatsold it."
Jeff Corle (24:59):
I would say, writing "Empty Barn" changed my life.
But I realized, especially afterI came upon the work of a lady
named Brene Brown, who speakseloquently and writes eloquently
about vulnerability, I realizedthere was a step before the
writing process, and that wasallowing myself to be vulnerable
(25:21):
enough to put what I was feelinginto the words of a song. After,
and that, in and of itself, wasa very cathartic experience. I
would encourage anybody who'sgoing through something to write
about it. You know, you don'thave to write a song, but
journaling is a, you know,similar thing. It's just
(25:44):
something about that physicalact of writing this stuff down,
you know, it's coming out andyou're getting it onto a page.
So writing the song, beingvulnerable, was a cathartic
experience in and of itself. Butthen I made the mistake of
playing the song for one person,which was a female friend, and
(26:05):
she loved it, and insisted thatI put it up on my farm's
Facebook page, I didn't evenhave a music page or anything,
and make it available fordownload. And she showed me how
to do it, and we put it upthere, and I never gave it a
second thought. And I came backto the computer about four hours
later, and was shocked to seethat this song had been
(26:28):
downloaded like 300 times. And Isaid to this friend of mine,
well, great. Now 300 some peopleknow what an emotional sap I
really am. And it only wentdownhill from there, Jim,
because in the coming days, itstarted to get shared in farm
groups, and it it started beingdownloaded 1000s of times. That
(26:51):
was the first little taste ofvirality. But I'm telling you
that, to tell you this, whatcame along with all those
downloads were the mostwonderful comments of love,
support and encouragement, youknow, from people who were
relating to the song. And thatwas kind of the next step in
(27:14):
this healing process was that Isaw that other people are going
through similar things, thatother people do, in fact, care
about me, and that there arepeople out there who are willing
to help me and support me. Andwhen I do my talk, this is
another joke that I make, I'llsay, "Hey guys, come here. I
(27:34):
gotta tell you something. Itturns out, if you tell people
how you're feeling, they canhelp you. Who knew I sure
didn't." But at any rate, thatwas the next phase of my healing
process. For me, was seeing allthose wonderful comments of love
(27:57):
and encouragement, and thenpeople telling me, "Hey, you got
to do something with yourmusic." When one door closes,
another one opens, and throughthe bizarre series of events, I
think it was about within sixweeks of having written "Empty
Barn," I was in an in arecording studio in Nashville,
(28:18):
recording it professionally withsome of the greatest musicians
on the planet.
Jim (28:23):
Successful career, are you making that? What, what's tell
me what, what next moves arewas, Are you a musician now? Are
you a farmer? What's what'shappened to the farm? What's
going on Jeff?
Jeff Corle (28:33):
Yeah, I used to say that I'm a farmer who sings and
writes songs, and now I thinkI'm more of a singer and a
songwriter who also farms. Yeah,I got busy, you know, I just
realized it was going to beimpossible for me to be doing
this music thing and also farm.
So we didn't have any animalafter the sale of the cows, we
(28:57):
didn't have any animals on thefarm. And I was approached by a
young guy who wanted to rent theland. So actually, our home farm
is 100 acres, so I actuallyrented the ground to this young
guy who's farming, and which,that's a whole nother thing. You
know when, when I was at theheight of my farming, milking 50
(29:19):
cows with my dad, we farmed ourhome farm, and we farmed the
four farms around us. So wefarmed about between five and
600 acres to obviously grow feedto feed the cows. And this kid
that's farming my ground, hepicked up all those farms that I
farmed, and I wanted to ride inhis big combine with him when he
(29:41):
combined his corn last fall. Andso we're in the combine, and I'm
amazed at all this. You know, Inever had anything like that,
and it actually had a passengerseat. And I said to him, "How
much ground are you farmingnow?" Yeah. And he said, "Well,
you know, Jeff, we're awfullysmall." He said, "We're just
(30:03):
about too small to survive." Hesaid, "At this point, since we
picked up your farm and thefarms around you, all we got is
about 2000 acres."
Jim (30:17):
Hawaii, the 75% of the farms are 10 acres or less, so
just for a little littleperspective on scale. But what
are you seeing as far as farms,and what's going on with farms,
farm closures? I mean, a lot ofpeople are reaching out to you
about it. I think have you seenan increase? Do you think things
(30:39):
like that there is an increasein farm closures? What is the
mainland farming situation fromyour perspective and the people
that share with you?
Jeff Corle (30:49):
Yeah, well, there's definitely a huge decline in
small and mid sized farms. Youknow, if you just take my own
area for an example here, when Iwas growing up and I graduated
high school in 1985 so when Iwas growing up in the 70s and
80s, our little town had 27licensed bulk tanks. So 27
(31:14):
licensed dairy farms. I happento have been the last one to
quit. So now there are zerodairy farms in my little area
here. So and when I was growingup, people made a solid, you
know, middle class income,milking those 30-40 cows and
(31:37):
farming, even sometimes as smallas 50-60 acres, and then buying
in some feed, whatever. That allhas pretty much totally gone by
the wayside. And as I've gottenout and talked to people about
this, it's happening everywhere,all all across. Everybody has
the same story that I just told.
When I was growing up all of ourneighbors were dairy farmers,
(31:57):
now there are none. Or one bigfarm, or two big farms buy up
all the ground and they milk,you know, multiple hundreds of
cows now, sometimes multiple1000s of cows. And something
I've started saying is thatnobody really in the general
public is where is really awareof this, because our previous
(32:22):
farm crisis, so in the late 70s,early 80s, a lot of those farms
got super laden with debt, andwhen the commodity prices
collapsed, those farms had noway to pay their mortgages, and
they started to get foreclosedon. And that was national news,
all these farm auctions, allthese foreclosures, that was
(32:45):
national news. Now it's not somuch farm foreclosures as it is
just closures. You know, the thefarms just going out of
business, like in my case, Ikept my farm, but I had to shut
down my enterprise because Ijust couldn't even barely break
even on it. So I don't thinkpeople are aware of this massive
(33:10):
decline. And I think the averageAmerican, if they drive out in
the country and they see a barnwith those silos, they think
that farm is still in operationin farming, but in reality, like
in my area, all those with thisbreaks my heart too. All there
are lots of nice facilities. Ihave a neighbor down the road
(33:34):
that built a new facility in themid 80s, about the time I was
graduating high school, and itwas designed for 80 cows. It was
a, it was a tie stall barn with80 cows. It had a big loafing
shed, two huge, so what weconsidered huge silos at the
time. And you know, whatever itis, 20-30, years later, that
(33:58):
sits empty. He went out ofbusiness about 10 years ago, and
a facility like that designed tomilk 80 to 100 cows is really
pretty much obsolete now. So itjust boggles my mind that you're
not we're not talking aboutlittle podunk operations that,
okay, time moves on, and, youknow, we're talking about people
(34:21):
who invested their lives andlots of money and capital into
building facilities that are nowcompletely obsolete. So that's,
you know, to me, it's just mindboggling and and heartbreaking
Jim (34:38):
And probably a little concerning as far as you know,
food quality and ability to belocally sustainable, but I think
that's something that's, that'sa big initiative here in Hawaii,
in the middle of the Pacific,right? That's, that's certainly
a focus for folks here.
Jeff Corle (34:55):
Well, you know, one thing to add to that is when a
certain when you kind of meet,reach a tipping point to where,
when so many of these farms goout of business, then the whole
rest of the ecosystem collapses.
So the feed mills collapse, youknow, the feed mills go out of
(35:15):
business, the equipment dealersgo out of business, you know,
the milking machine maintenancepeople all go out of business,
and where you had this vibrant,thriving ecosystem, now you
basically have nothing. So it's,it's, it's hard to get your mind
around how fast it has changed,I guess is what I'm trying to
(35:38):
say.
Jim (35:40):
I think as we we start to wrap, I want people to, I would
like you to share with peoplewhere they can find out or
follow what you're doing andfind out more about your music.
Maybe you're if you're comingout with a new album, or if
you're going on tour related toeven some of the speaking
engagements. Is there a spotthat you like to, so I know you
have Instagram, Facebook. Anysuggestions on where people
(36:03):
should find and follow you?
Jeff Corle (36:07):
Yeah, well, my main hub is my website, which is
www.JeffCorleMusic.com. You canfind all things Jeff Corle
there. I have a heavy, heavypresence on YouTube. Just look
for Jeff Corle on YouTube. Notso much, I am on Instagram. You
(36:29):
can find me there, but my otherbig one is Tiktok so you can
find my tiktoks. And I have apretty good following there.
Jim (36:38):
Sounds good. I think what we like to do is, because our
focus for the Seeds of Wellbeingproject is ag producer mental
health and ways to cope, anywords of wisdom that you want to
share for our ag producers outthere?
Jeff Corle (36:55):
Yeah, well, just what I said before. My core
message is, especially to guys,I know you were raised to grin
and bear it. We were talkingabout this earlier. Your dad
drilled that into you. Yourgrandpap drilled that into you.
That's the nature of farming.
You know, if you have a badyear, you're going to have it,
(37:17):
you know, there's always nextyear you have a bad spring,
things will turn around. Butwith your mental health,
especially if you're goingthrough a farm closure, or a
farm transition, or facing theprospect of that, you got to
talk about it. You even you knowone family member, one, your
(37:39):
best friend, if you can go tothem and say, "I really got to
tell you, I'm going throughsomething." I know guys, your
instinct is to keep that inside,but I will guarantee you that's
the absolute worst thing you cando. And you know, just, just to
(37:59):
add on to that, something wedidn't mention earlier, there's
a statistic out now that farmersare three and a half times more
likely to die by suicide thanthe general public. So why is
that? I think it's two things,financial stress that so many
(38:20):
farmers are experiencing,coupled with this idea that I
can get through this, I'm goingto keep it inside and worst
thing you can do,
Jim (38:32):
We thank Jeff for sharing the song and his story with us.
We're also grateful to Abby,Julie and Denny for talking with
us about their reaction to andconnection with "Empty Barn" and
Jeff. It is worth noting thatJeff wanted to have a few more
people share their perspectives,especially guys that look like
him, as he puts it. And althoughwe reached out to a few of those
(38:53):
guys, they declined to be on thepodcast. Jeff imagines it's
because of the stigma of showingvulnerability and asking for
help as a male farmer inAmerica, and it's such a strong
force. Hopefully to help addressgrowing mental health issues
among that population, thatforce can be overcome,
especially when they need help,and perhaps we can see
vulnerability go viral. Let'shear some final words from these
(39:16):
folks, and if you listen to theend of the podcast, we will play
the song "Empty Barn" in itsentirety. Mahalo.
Abby Wiedmeyer (39:22):
I think probably a lot of farmers struggle with
this, and they don't evenrealize it, but a lot of times
we we equate our productivity toour value and our worthiness,
and they're not the same thing.
You know, the more productiveyou are is not the more valuable
that you are, that every humanis valuable and worthy just
because they exist and justexactly as they exist, and even
(39:45):
if you do nothing but sit on thecouch for a whole day, you're
still valuable and wortheverything that you are if you
work 100 hours a week.
Julie’s Zajac (39:57):
My plea to people is to recognize that there are
people around you that arewilling to listen. And I mean,
it doesn't have to be pouringyour heart out. It's just
actually having a humanconnection and just making the
(40:17):
time to you know whether, and Irealized farmers are remote, so
it's difficult to say, "Hey, I'mjust going to drop by." But you
know, I prefer in person,because it's, to me, it's more
meaningful, right? It's, it'sthat authentic experience. But
(40:38):
you know, of course, this dayand age, here we are. You're in
Hawaii, I'm in Georgia. We'rehaving this conversation. So the
technology does allow for peopleto engage. And so just, you
know, I would beg people toallow themselves. It's okay to
(40:59):
reach out, just to chat. And,you know, there are a number of
help lines that I've seen thatare designated for farmers, and
I would encourage reaching outthere.
Denny Hutchison (41:14):
I think that the biggest thing in my mind
it's it's simple and it'scomplicated and it's difficult,
and that's to go to somebody andsay, "Are you doing okay with
your mental health?" But to beable to ask that question, and
the flip side of that is whensomebody asks you that question,
(41:38):
to be brutally honest, and tosay, if you're having problems,
to be able to say, "You know,no, I'm not. I'm not doing okay.
I need some help somewhere."
Jim (41:51):
I'll actually use that as a way to put in a plug for some of
the things the Seeds ofWellbeing is doing on the Hawaii
Islands, which is findingformally setting up peer support
options for ag producers, sothere are people that get it,
and are there to help and arethere to listen. So please check
out our website and the linksthat you see there to try to get
(42:12):
help and find folks that atleast just have the sympathy and
empathy, right, that isimportant when you're going
through some tough times, whichanyone in ag goes through
regularly.
Jeff Corle (42:23):
Yeah, absolutely, really, it's really important
what you're doing, because it'sreally important for farmers to
talk to other farmers, becausevery few people in the general
public understand this. If Itell you, like I told you and
got emotional earlier, how muchI loved those cows and how much
it broke my heart to say goodbyeto them, you know, the average
(42:48):
person on the street is going tolook at you like, are you crazy?
And they were just cows, youknow. Or even, you know, a multi
generation crop farm, whatever.
You know that dad worked thisground, grandpap worked this
ground, and here I am the onewho's going to bring it to an
end. It's really important totalk to other farmers.
Jim (43:11):
Thank you, Jeff. I really appreciate your time and and
I'll be and I'll be listening toyour music. I just some of them
I just get such a kick out of.
And what I suggest to folks isjust, even if you just plug,
plug Jeff's song into yourSpotify, or your music player, I
you know, and the AIs kind ofcome up and try to find songs
that are similar, that can befun too.
Jeff Corle (43:34):
Well, yeah. I mean, if I can leave, leave you on
this note too, right? So "EmptyBarn" was the bottom of the
story. You know, that was thetrough. After things started
happening, and I was able to getout there and write some more
music and record my album then Iwas able to take a little bit of
(43:55):
a lighter approach and writeabout some of the more fun
aspects of farming. All my songsare farm related, but, yeah, I'm
not going to leave you down inthat drop. You'll find some
music that will put a smile onyour face.
Jim (44:11):
Absolutely. Thanks again, Jeff. Um, take care and keep
writing those songs.
Jeff Corle (44:15):
Okay? Thank you.
Thao (44:17):
The intention of these podcast series is to create a
safe space for a respectful andinclusive dialog with people
from across a broad and diversespectrum involved in growing and
making accessible the food weshare together. A diversity of
voices, perspectives andexperiences can serve to deepen
mutual understanding, to sparkcreative problem solving, and
(44:41):
provide insight into thecomplexities of our agriculture
system. If you, our listeners,have experiences with Hawaii
agriculture ecosystem fromindigenous methods,
permaculture, smallholderfarmers to large including
multinational agriculturalindustrial companies, and
everywhere in between, and youwould like to share your story,
(45:04):
please contact us. We welcomeyour voices and perspectives.
Jeff Corle singing (45:08):
I can get used to not working every day,
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay, and
(45:46):
and I can get used to notneeding to bail hay. I can get
(49:06):
used to a job off the farm, butI will never get used to this
empty barn. No, I will willnever get used to this empty
(49:27):
barn.
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