Birth, Death, Marriage: Embracing Every Moment with Wayne Prevett

Have you ever wondered what truly matters at the end of a life well-lived? In this candid conversation, Tim Winders sits down with Wayne Prevett, an executive life celebration coach who has orchestrated over 4,000 funerals and life celebrations, to explore life's true priorities and lasting legacies. Wayne shares the profound insights he's gleaned on what people cherish most in the wake of loss and offers advice on living a life that celebrates every moment. Whether you're pondering how to leave a meaningful legacy or simply curious about how to be present in life's most significant moments, this episode of Seek Go Create is a must-listen.

"I'm a moment specialist. My superpower is to be present in a moment. In that moment, we have an incredible opportunity to speak words of encouragement." - Wayne Prevett

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

Wayne Prevett is a distinguished executive life celebration coach based in Lynchburg, Virginia. With a profound understanding of life's priorities and lasting legacies, Wayne has orchestrated over 4,000 life celebrations and funerals, offering unique insights into what truly matters at the end of a life well lived. As the founder of several impactful ministries, he empowers individuals to commemorate significant life events with heartfelt ceremonies. Wayne's expertise in creating meaningful moments is complemented by his ability to inspire and motivate people to live a life that celebrates every moment. His compassionate approach and dedication to serving others make him a compelling guide in navigating life's crossroads.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Unique Insights on Life's Priorities: Discover the profound lessons Wayne Prevett has learned from orchestrating over 4,000 life celebrations and funerals. His insights on what people truly cherish at the end of life are eye-opening and could shift your perspective on living a life filled with purpose.
2. Understanding Character Over Titles: Wayne shares his aversion to titles and positions, emphasizing the importance of character. His viewpoint challenges societal norms and invites listeners to ponder what really defines us as individuals.
3. Intriguing Discussions on Spiritual and Personal Growth: Engage in thought-provoking conversations about overcoming spiritual abuse and societal expectations. Wayne's journey from a restrictive environment to embracing the grace of God is both inspiring and relatable, offering nuggets of wisdom applicable to anyone's life journey.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources:

1. Book: "The Grace Awakening" by Chuck Swindoll - Wayne mentioned how reading this book opened up new perspectives for him, especially in understanding grace versus legalism.
2. Training and Certification for Life Celebrations - Wayne mentioned that he's involved in training and certifying individuals to officiate weddings and funerals, which could be an excellent resource for those interested in pursuing this path. More information can be found by searching for Wayne Prevett online or within the Seek Go Create network.

Action Steps:

1. Reflect on Your Life’s Legacy - Consider what words you want to be remembered by at the end of your life. As Wayne discussed, understanding the core character traits that will define your legacy can be a powerful motivator for personal growth.
2. Engage...

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The number one characteristic usedby families to describe a loved one

(00:03):
who's passed away is the word stubborn.
It's the most common word that we hear.
And I began to realizethere's probably a reason why.
and most of the time, no one in the familywas courageous enough, willing enough,
open enough to peel back some of thelayers and go, why was dad so stubborn?

(00:34):
What truly matters at theend of a life well lived?
Join us as we explore thisprofound question with Wayne
Previtt, a distinguishedexecutive life celebration coach.
Wayne, a Canadian that is nowin Lynchburg, Virginia, has
orchestrated over 50 events.
Four thousand life celebrationsand funerals, gleaning unique
insights into life's truepriorities and lasting legacies.

(00:57):
the founder of several impactfulministries and a coach, he
empowers individuals to marklife's significant moments.
With heartfelt ceremonies today, we'llexplore Wayne's journey and the deep
wisdom he shares about what peoplecherish most in the wake of loss.
Alongside his advice on living a lifethat truly celebrates every moment.

(01:20):
welcome to Seek, Go Create.
Fantastic, Tim.
Thanks so much.
So glad to be with you.
Looking forward to it.
we haven't known each other that long.
We met, had a lunch togetherat a conference in Sarasota,
Florida few weeks ago.
And man, I loved our time together.
I do too.
And I mean, we talked about somethings and I said, man, we need, we

(01:42):
need to record this kind of stuff.
first question, kind of deep,but yes, kind of one I like
to get started off with.
you prefer answering the question,what do you do or who are you?
Pick it and go ahead and answer.
I don't like those questions.

(02:02):
What do you do?
I run away from them.
Screaming is usuallyhow I respond to them.
I don't like titles andI don't like positions.
And yet I realized we live in asociety that lives and dies by those.
The problem with that is, is that we havea tendency with our preconceived notions,
presuppositions, paradigms, whatever youwant to call them, we put people in a box.

(02:25):
And I don't want to be boxed in.
I want a little bit of liberty,a little bit of freedom.
I asked this question and I challengedour good friend Vincent the other day.
You do one of these onconferences again, Vincent.
Don't, don't put that out there.
Don't even make that a go to opportunity.
You tell people you can't come to myconference if you're going to ask,
where do you live and what do you do?
We're defined by character.

(02:46):
We are not defined by title, becausetitle changes, positions change.
But character, for the most part, kind ofremains the same throughout the journey,
unless we have a major course correction.
And sometimes tragedy, sometimes loss,sometimes joy, sometimes birthday,
sometimes certain circumstances inlife has a tendency for us to be able
to make some character adjustments.

(03:07):
But, you know, you talked about the factthat I've done a lot of life celebrations,
I've done a lot of funerals, and I thinkI shared with you at lunch that day, we
end the journey with a handful of words.
That's how we end.
And one of those handful of words neverincludes your title, your position.
It just never does.
Jeremiah had a phenomenal word to thepeople of the day, if you know Jeremiah.

(03:29):
And it was simply this, let not thewise man boast of his wisdom, or the
strong man boast of his strength,or the rich man boast of his riches.
You can also, you can add tothat, don't let your title
be the thing you boast about.
But what are you going to boast about?
You're going to boast about this,because you're allowed to boast.
We're going to boast aboutthe fact that I know God.
And that he is a god ofjustice and righteousness.
And justice and righteousness, Mishpahand Zedekah, are character words that only

(03:53):
manifest themselves in a relationship.
And that's the questionthat needs to be answered.
The character of an individualis what we see anyway.
You could have the greatest CEO, CFO.
I don't care.
You can have the title.
You can be master coach of the universe,but be an absolute moron in terms
of love and patience and kindness.

(04:14):
Do you know what I mean?
Like that falls apart forme at that point in time.
So don't lead with your title leadwith what's on the, really the cuffs of
your shirt and that's your character,your kindness, your generosity.
I love people.
And one of those things thatI love about people is I love
the opportunity in the moment.

(04:34):
I'm a moment specialist.
My superpower is to bepresent in a moment.
And in that moment, I believe thatwe have this incredible opportunity
to speak words of encouragement.
Sometimes they're words of exhortation.
Sometimes they're words of empowerment.
And I believe that that's what defines me.

(04:55):
And that's how I want to be defined,and that's how I want to be remembered.
I want to be able to equip you.
I want to be able to encourage you.
I want to be able to empower you Andthe receptivity of the spirit matters
a lot for that individual, but I gottatell you Tim we are a world desperately
longing to be seen and we're a worlddesperately longing to know that somehow

(05:16):
some way I matter to somebody andwhen we are Present in someone's life
There's something powerful about that
There's, there's so muchthat you brought up in there.
I made about three or four notes andI, I, I agree with, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's, uh, that's a word that Itry not to use, but I think unpack

(05:40):
is actually a good word for that.
There are a lot of things there, butI think the first question that I
want to ask is as someone who doesthese celebrations, and we're going
to talk a little bit more aboutthat here in just a few seconds.
How are you doing?
How are you doing with that?
I know you said you mentionedyour superpower is being present.
I agree with you because we had alunch with, you know, there were 100

(06:02):
people around us, but truthfully,you and I were the only two people
in the room for, you know, 30, 30,45 minutes or something like that.
I would, I would.
Agree.
We even had a nice young ladythat was at the table with us.
And at times she wasn't even therebetween the two of us, I think,
which might have been rude of us.
But, How are you doing?

(06:23):
Because one of the things I'm goingto ask shortly is what do people
say at the end of their lives?
What, what is important and youknow, you and I are, we've got a
lot of, a lot of years ahead of us.
But we're also at a stage where we'reasking, have we achieved and accomplished?
Have we done those thingsthat we want to do?
So when you, when you kind of look in themirror and say, Wayne, you're doing good.

(06:48):
You're not so good.
What, how are you doing when youmeasure some of those things?
Yeah, that's a horriblyunfair question, so I love it.
here's the absolutepresent moment reality.
And that is on Monday, I turned 65.
And so it's coming up.
So I'm 64 right now.
I turned 65 on Monday.

(07:09):
And I am stuck navigating that.
When I was 49, I made a list of 50things I wanted to do before I turned 50.
I went hard.
I got 49 down.
I didn't get all 50down, but I got 49 down.
And then I threw a massiveparty for myself on my 50th.
I got to 60.
I kind of went, eh, whatever I'm 65.
And you know, it isthere's societal pressure.

(07:29):
There's expectations of, and literallyyesterday, I'm not lying, literally
yesterday, somebody said to me, Well,you remind me of one of my geriatric
patients, and I thought, that isabsolutely unbelievable that someone
would say that right now in this moment.
Talk about not reading the room.
Talk about not being present.
They didn't mean any harm by it, but itjust causes you to go, what the heck?

(07:53):
I don't want to be a geriatric patient.
I don't even know what that means,but it sounds like it's an old
person is what it sounds like.
So yeah, where am I at right now?
I am stuck navigating that.
And it's not because of regret, Tim.
It's because I want to finish strong.
One of the things that I've learned sowell out of walking away from so many life

(08:17):
celebrations and thousands of funerals.
And that is that almost inevitably I willsit in the car at the end of it and I will
do a quick assessment and say, I have gota lot of room to be better at who I am.
When you bump into peoples whose storyis kindness and generosity and patience

(08:39):
and thoughtfulness, that the privilegeof leading a lot of funerals for homeless
and the prostitutes and drug addicts.
spent multiple years, my wife andI working just in the inner city.
And one of the things that I discoveredabout the homeless was their generosity.

(09:01):
It was completely theopposite of my paradigm.
And we sat in this room of a handfulof people and we eulogize this
woman who was a, who was homelessand a prostitute and a drug addict.
And the only word spoken about her was hergenerosity over and over and over again.
One, I confess to God andapologize for my horrible spirit

(09:23):
towards those who are homeless.
And then secondly said, I've gotan abundance and I will not come
close to that being word spokenabout me at the end of my life.
And I need to step up my game.
And I think when you hit milestonebirthdays, and I think 16th milestone
21 is, and I think 65 is, youknow, And the narrative is, oh, I

(09:47):
guess you're going to retire now.
No, I'm not.
I'm going to press the gas pedaland I'm going to move forward.
And my prayer is, my hope is,is that I'll finish strong.
And that includes mymarriage being better.
It includes me being better as a father.
It includes me being better as a leader.
We have a thousand peoplethat are in our organization.
It just means I've got room forimprovement and I can start to

(10:11):
etch in the headstone of life.
The words that I want to be remembered by.
And those are character words.
So, there's my honest answer.
I'm stuck, but I'm tenacious and I knowthat I will push forward and I believe
I'm going to be victorious in all of this.
Are you, are you anxious aboutbeing stuck or is it just a

(10:35):
descriptive word that describes it?
Cause some people would get all anxiousand attempt to, put their hand to the plow
and make things happen, blah, blah, blah.
had, we might discuss it in a moment.
I had quite a long conversation withthe Lord this morning, woke me up early.
I heard a knock.
I literally heard a knock at 530 a. m. andI'm not in the mode of getting up early.

(10:59):
And I kind of woke up and Isaid, Hmm, I think I need to
get up and have some quiet time.
But are you anxious about beingstuck or it just is what it is.
I don't, I don't think I'm anxious.
I don't think I know what to do.
don't think I know how am Isupposed to act different?
Am I supposed to be different?

(11:21):
Am I supposed to wind down?
I think there's all these things thatare just noise of the world and noise
of society and noise of expectations.
I also don't want to be set aside.
And I think a lot of that has todo with my age and a lot of what
I saw in my generation growing up.
I literally watched people come tothis milestone of life, and they

(11:44):
were kind of shed on, set on a shelf.
And I literally remember withsuch clarity, and this is probably
what it comes back to, somebodysaying one day, it's time for now
the seniors to step aside and letthe younger generation take over.
And everything theological about me, inmy understanding, is that is not true.
If anything, my theology teachesme it's a great time for the

(12:07):
older to teach the younger.
I'm game for that, but I don't find alot of young people standing in line
going, Hey, wise guy, old dude, youknow, geriatric patient, teach me some
things that I need to know in life.
And maybe if that was true,maybe there would be a greater
sense of worth and value.
And I think that that'swhat it's connected to.
So no, not anxious, hopeful that.

(12:31):
There is a tomorrow, and a tomorrow,and a tomorrow, and a tomorrow.
But I don't get stuckusually, and I feel stuck.
And I don't know if that's the rightword, but that's where I feel right now.
But not, not despaired.
Yeah, I've often wondered, this is aquestion that's been going through my mind
some, we're in a world where, you know,social media, your platform, you and I

(12:55):
met with a great group of people, about ahundred people that were gathered together
that are memberships or platforms to,you know, share whatever it is they do.
And I'm sure you and I were therebecause we, I sort of believe the
same thing and we love the peoplethat we were able to hang out with.
But one of the things I've thoughtthrough recently, we're in a 55 and

(13:18):
older community here down in Arizona.
I've
Okay, yeah.
few episodes, and this has been abit of a theme, so it's really good
we're having this discussion, Wayne.
two episodes ago, episode 301 was JimCook, he's a Silicon Valley vet. One
of the original founders at Netflix,he is a couple years younger than me,
but he's still at a stage in life wherehe's got a lot of wisdom and younger

(13:40):
people should be seeking him out.
Mike Baer, last episode, I believe ifI'm getting the order right, was about
to celebrate his 70th birthday, andhe's been a mentor to me in many ways.
30 years ago, we coached and we weretalking about how to transfer wisdom and
knowledge and all to a younger generation.
And that's sort of the theme here,
Yeah,

(14:01):
one of the things I've thought about, andI'll mention a word to you and you could
respond is I think many of us have wantedto have impact and another word that ties
into that is we want to be significant.
We want to have significance with whatwe do and, and we don't want to, you
Hopefully not do it with arrogance.
We want to do it with humility and all.

(14:22):
That's something that I'vestruggled with a little bit.
But I think what I'm a littlebit concerned about is becoming
Not, not insignificant.
necessarily passing away.
I mean, I, I kind of know that story.
I know what happens there, but I'm notsure about what's between here and there.
When I bring up that wordinsignificance, what does that do to you?

(14:45):
When I say, what happens if the twoof us, 10 years from now, we meet up
at a coffee shop the only thing we'vedone in the last 10 years is just, I
don't know, hang out, play pickleball.
They play pickleballdown here all the time.
That's what everybody does.
Yeah, I've never played pickleball.
I think I'd be pretty goodat it, but I've never played.

(15:07):
athletic.
I bet you would be
I played a lot of hockey and that's why mybody's in such horrific pain all the time.
Insignificant.
Now I, you know why that'snot going to happen?
Because my significance is notbased in title, it's not based in
position, it's based on people.
So I can't lose significance, Tim.

(15:29):
Influence or inspiration orimpact, which are three core
values that Rosanna and I live by.
We actually measure the successof our encounters with humans
based upon those three things.
Did we in that momentoffer, some inspiration?
Were we impactful in their life?
And did we do something that mightbe influential enough that they

(15:51):
leave the encounter with us andgo and do something of greatness?
And that's why life celebrationsare so perfectly positioned for us.
And that's not the only thing wedo, but in those moments, they, all
three of those things can happen.
You've never been to a wedding wherethere's not some kind of inspiration.
You're either inspired to love the personsitting beside you more, or you see how

(16:13):
much the couple don't like each other.
And you're inspired to, you know, end yourrelationship, get a divorce and move on.
I don't know.
Typically you're inspired.
And most people don't go to a funeralwithout something happening in their life.
So no, I can't lose significance.
It's not, it's not possible because I, Imeasure it in terms of human encounter.

(16:34):
It's the volume of, or thenumber of opportunities.
So the context in which that is inthe context now is smaller for me
than it used to be because I'm notdoing events the way I used to.
We now train and certify equipmentand power people to do events.
And when we stopped doing that severalyears ago, we both felt that massive void.

(16:56):
but it didn't change or challengeor question our significance.
It changed the context.
So now I look for it in other ways.
And I am very much, I am a moment, man.
I, my best work is in the moment.
When I encounter you at acrossroad of life, because

(17:18):
every encounter is a crossroad.
If I encounter you, Tim, at the crossroadof life, The longing of my heart is what
can I possibly do to inspire you to becomeeverything that God's designed you to be?
And no one could take that from me.
Not age, not lack of hair.
Cause I don't have any.
have you always been that way, Wayne,or if not, when were you first aware

(17:43):
that that was your superpower, that wassomething that was for the character
you are, that focus on the present?
Sitting in the chair ofa psychotherapist room
and I shared a story of abuse,physical, emotional, spiritual,

(18:09):
And she looked at me and she said,
she said, I am so excited for thelittle boy, Wayne, who was given
the powers by God and the graceof God to navigate the impossible.
And out of that came What Dr.Dennis Shackle, he's head of

(18:31):
an Ivy, Ivy school of business.
He said to me one day, I'venever met anyone whose proxemics
is as in tune as yours is.
And the psychotherapist was ableto say, because you had to learn
to navigate the impossible.
So I would say I've been thatway as a child since a child,

(18:54):
but it took a long time in life.
I was well into my thirties probably,or if not early forties by the
time Dr. Shackle was able to comealong, and he put some pieces to it.
Now I'm in my fiftiesbefore as a psychotherapist.
Puts the rest of the pieces together, andI decided I'm going to step into that.
Because I believe that I am where I amtoday because God gave me the Ability

(19:18):
and the protection and the grace to beable to become that kind of a person that
sees I I literally Can't help myself I'mstanding at a cash at target the other
day and the depth of despair and thecashier led me to tears I mean, I was
just heartbroken And everything insideof me I want to reach over and hold her

(19:38):
and say I don't know what happened toyou either in the past or today, but
you need to know that you are loved.
so yeah, I, I, it goes way, way back,but I mean, I, you don't make sense of
it when you're nine 11 or 12, you'restill clamoring to get through life.
Right.

(19:58):
I can hardly wait to getout of the household.
Yeah,
and when I did, I was so wounded, I'mwounding everybody else that's around me.
And then you grow and you change andyou develop and you strengthen and.
I think that answers your question,but it came as a result of great
people like yourself comingalong and going, I see this.
I don't know if I understand why I seethis, but I see this, but this amazing,

(20:22):
wonderful, extraordinary friend ofmine, who's a psychotherapist for the
first time ever didn't join my sorrow.
She celebrated my victoryand that Tim changed my life.
So what's interesting aboutthat, tell me if this is a
correct or incorrect observation.
almost appears as if your abilityto focus on the present almost this

(20:48):
protective bubble that was around youbecause of things happening around you.
My wife has a similar story.
I think I was in a saferenvironment growing up.
So, you know, I walk in a room and I see ahundred people, I'm like a hundred people.
Yeah.
fascinating, you walk in a roomand you probably see one at a time,

(21:10):
man, dude, I can instantaneously,instantaneously, instantaneously,
you'll find me standing in acorner and I peruse the room.
And there's two reasonswhy one of an introvert.
And secondly, there's just somethingabout that part of me in my life
that knows for a fact with a hundredpeople in that room, there are one

(21:36):
or two people whose pain is so deep.
It, it, it drives some people nutsand I am, I've learned to be very,
very sensitive, but there are timeswhen somebody will tell their whole
life story in a very brief moment.
We didn't even finish breakfastand I had a server in Alabama.
Tell me that she was abused,sexually abused, physically abused.

(21:58):
She's now gone through a divorce and she'sfound Jesus Christ and she's trying to
learn what the Bible has to say for her.
And she's so lost and so confused andall of this happened by the time my,
my eggs were finished and the plate wastaken away and she came back and she
sat down and she cried and she lookedat Rosanna and I, and she said, can
you help me become more like Jesus?

(22:21):
And it's in those moments that yourealize that's, What the cry I think
of the heart of most people is.
So yeah, you, I learned proxemics so thatyou could control the environment of an
angry father, or Abuse in the household inother ways that the spiritual abuse I grew
up with, I told you a little bit about it.

(22:42):
Some really dark spiritual abusebackgrounds where the word of God
and principles of the word of Godweren't as important as the rules of
the church and the rules of the houseand the rules of everything else.
And so rules driven that wemissed out on the grace of God.
And yet somehow God poured so muchgrace on me that I never became bitter.
I never became angry.

(23:02):
I was just heartbroken and confused.
And then I began to realize thatwow, around me are so many people
and it might not be spiritual abuse.
It might even be physical abuse.
It might simply be the fact thatthey're just desperately lonely
in a world of 7 billion people.
So yeah, it is a protective bubble andsometimes somehow, some way, I think it's
okay for us to walk up to someone's littlebubble and go, I'm not going to break it.

(23:25):
I'm not going to bust it, but I want youto see that on the outside of your bubble
is actually somebody here right now.
that's willing to love you and accept you.
We all need redemption.
And that was another keyreality for me to overcome.
A lot of things in life was
No one is beyond theredemptive grace of God.

(23:45):
Yeah, and
working with street peoplefor all those years, man, I
gotta tell you, I had to learn.
I had to grow up.
I had to have a better theology.
I'd have a Jesus theologyand not a religious theology.
it's interesting you brought up thatspiritual or what we can call it
religious This, this could be somethingthat we could, you know, tailspin into

(24:07):
a conversation we may not want to have.
But it's interesting as I look back overmy life, I wouldn't be one that dealt
with, I don't think, a lot of abuse.
I have this personality that wouldn'tadmit it even if I did, which is, there's
other issues there we won't go into.
I'm asking the questionshere, so let's keep it on
yeah, absolutely.
So we'll, we'll keep thefocus on me right now.

(24:29):
I have looked back over the courseof my 61 years and have gone through
some difficult things business wise,relationships, different things like that.
If I were to rank, and it's not good torank abuse situations, that's not a good
thing to do, but I'm about to do it.
I would say the worst, that damagedmy soul more than anything else.

(24:57):
was what many would term spiritual orreligious abuse that I experienced at a
very mature age in a Bible school setting.
Because it's the thing that still creepsback and rolls into my head and my psyche
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I kind of
yeah.
that, I'm not taking anything away fromthose that have gone through physical,

(25:19):
Yeah.
I mean,
No, I hear you.
stuff
hear you.
I hear you.
that stuff can do anumber on you, correct?
Oh, it does.
Very, very good friend of mine.
We grew up together, went tothe same church together, lived
in the same context together.
He actually described our upbringingas being a part of a cult.
And it was just a Baptist church,but he said, no, no, he said,

(25:39):
honestly, Timmy, it manifests thesame characteristics of a cult.
And I looked at him and I said,you know, give me a break, Bob.
And he goes, no, no, no.
Let me walk you through it.
So he walked me throughit and I went, holy crap.
I mean, I, I don't want to say I waspart of a cult and he goes, well,
we don't have to say that we cansay we're a part of Baptist church.
But at the end of the day, themanifestations of it were very cult like,
but control, control of people, controlof people, for the sake of the image.

(26:02):
And I agree with you.
so his perspective isabuses, abuses, abuse.
So you can't measure one against another.
It's context, it's experience.
It's the journey of life.
I just happened to have all three.
So when I speak of emotional,spiritual, physical abuse, I
actually experienced all three.
So never loved, never hugged,never said I love you.

(26:24):
emotional abuse is just manipulation,just shame and manipulation for
their image, for mom and dad's image,not for Jesus image or my image.
And then the religious aspect of it.
I went right from, I was born ona Wednesday, went to the church
nursery on a Sunday and never left.
Went out to Bible school.
The Bible school was exactlythe same as my home church.
They had exactly the same manifestationsand Never do anything different until

(26:48):
I hit about 23 years of age I guessand I just sat down one day and and
I just I just sobbed I just startedto cry because I've been in Bible
school reading the Word of God goingI can't find I Can't find some of
this stuff that you keep telling me.
I got to do to be righteous I can'tfind it and then I went holy crap.
You lied to me You You've lied tome and you've told me stuff that

(27:12):
you think was spiritual and godly.
And you lied to me.
I, my hair can be over my ears.
That's,
I can't hold hands with somebody andthey're not going to get pregnant.
You lied to me.
You can't tell me those lies anymore.
And I had this moment ofincredible revelation.
And again, this is this divine aspect.

(27:33):
Put into me when I was a child.
So here's this protectivebubble again goes on me.
And for the first time ever, and Igotta tell you, that's catastrophic.
You break that bubble when the only thingyou've ever known is spiritual abuse?
I was left devastated.
I mean, that's a faith crisis right there.
Like a massive faith crisis.
I'm like, okay, I'm out.
And I could hear the voice of Godsaying, you're not going anywhere.

(27:55):
I got you and I'm going to redeem you.
And I'm going to speak to you andI'm going to give you wisdom and
discernment and truth and understanding.
And it's going to revolutionize your life.
It's just going to tickoff a lot of other people.
And it did.
I would basically cast out family,church, college, and everything.
a, would that have been like adeconstruction that we use that word today
I hate that word withan incredible passion.

(28:17):
I hate it with it's disgusting.
But at the end of the day, it is,
it describes some
know,
this
it's
about.
perfect.
If I, if you look that wordup in the dictionary, my,
my bald head is right there.
People are like, Oh yeah,that guy went through that.
I know that guy went through that.
Here's the problem.
Most of my friends, colleagues never did.
Like, like never did.

(28:38):
So I'm not angry that theydidn't, but they never did.
And they stayed in the system.
They stayed in the, thetrough, so to speak.
They stayed in the, the routines,the structures that were there.
And I will never, ever criticizethe power of the Word of God.
And that's the irony ofit was, so Bible based.

(28:59):
And so told over and over and over againin Sunday school and in youth group and
in Bible school The Word of God matters.
The Word of God matters.
The Word of God matters.
I memorized it.
I took it to heart I memorizedcopious amounts of it.
I took Greek Hebrew.
I became prolific in the Word ofGod studied You know got master's
degrees working on a doctoratedegree And it was in that moment.
I realized I'm readingthe Word of God going.

(29:19):
I can't find some of this stuff Like Ican't find it And it was in that moment.
So here's the irony of it, right?
Listen, Wayne, trust the Word of God.
I did, and when I read it,guys, you know what I found out?
You guys told me some stuffthat just wasn't true.
Chuck Swindoll wrote a book calledThe Grace Awakening, and we were told

(29:40):
never read it when I was in seminary.
Well, every book we were toldto never read, I went and read.
And it was that that openedthe flood gates in my life.
And I began to cry and I began torealize I am so legalistically driven.
I have no idea what libertyis at all in my life.
The spirit of God said with me withunbelievable clarity, the liberty,
God, the liberty that you need is tofind the fences of the, of the word

(30:03):
of God, the absolutes of the word ofGod, and live right against that fence.
Live right there.
Rest against it.
Lean against it.
Rest in it.
Don't jump over it becauseyou're going to fall off into
the abyss, but stay right there.
And I found green pastures that were alot bigger than the ones they gave me.
They had my little box.
God had a vast kingdom of greatness.

(30:24):
And I lived in that liberty, butthere's consequences to that.
You know,
Family, family don't like you.
yeah, you butt up against somereligious spirits or whatever,
Hmm.
Yeah.
like the journey
Mm,
I mean, good gracious, isn't thatroughly what he went through when he,
nailed up his thesis on the, wall?
It's like, you know what?
this religious stuff, someone tellingme what I should do instead of me

(30:49):
actually reading the word of God and
mm, mm, mm, mm,
so I want to ask that, butthen here's the big question.
I mean, dancing has got to beoff the table still, right?
You haven't danced, right?
Because that's like a big no, no.
Correct.
It's funny you'd even ask that question.
I'm musical.
I sing, play instrumentsand I cannot dance.

(31:12):
Like physically you can't orspiritually and emotionally you can't.
Physically I can't, but you know,it has to be because my youngest
has no problem because she's notbeen raising any abuse at all.
And literally, 22, she looks at me, shegoes, It is simply a block in your brain.

(31:34):
And that's how bad it was.
I still see a deck of cards today,and I won't pick them off the table.
Interesting.
They're just pieces of paper.
I guess somebody mightrespectfully disagree with me,
go, no, they're Satan's tools.
I think they're pieces of paper.
I could probably use them tothrow them in a hat maybe or
something to play a game that way.

(31:54):
But this is how deep this stuffgets seated in the spirit.
So because there's such nonabsolute dishes for me, I
don't lose any sleep over it.
Yeah.
But if you were to ask me to sitdown and play a hand of cards,
one, I wouldn't know a single game.
I don't know a single card game at all.
Like not one.
I would love to learn to playpoker, but I do drink alcohol.

(32:18):
I drink wine.
I love bourbon a lot.
I smoke cigars.
But at the end of the day, thosethings I don't mind, but dance, dance.
And I've got rhythm.
I have to come.
I'm a musician.
Music.
So,
but putting on a dance floor.
very good friend of mine.
And she ended up being at thismultiple weddings that I had done.

(32:40):
And she was like the guest of the guest.
It was like she wasstalking me or something.
It was the most bizarre thing.
Anyway, I ended up doing herwedding, her sister's wedding,
tons of her friends wedding.
Her name is Dana.
And I'm, she's at a weddingand I'm hanging around
cause they asked me to stay.
And you know, I'm eating a meal witheverybody and I'm, I'm, I'm with Dana
cause she's become such a good friendand she goes, come on, let's dance.

(33:01):
So I go on the dance floor andI'm trying, she looks at him.
She goes, what the heck is your problem?
She goes, you suck, like suck.
She goes, go and sit downand stay away from me.
I laughed and let Roseanne andI went and took ballroom dancing
one session and we were out.
The instructor came up and said tous, said to her, you can't be led.

(33:25):
She's such a strong woman.
You can't be led and he can't lead you.
And both of you suck.
So I would highly recommendyou find a new activity.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That is how deep seated it isin the psyche of some people.
no, no,
do I have a problem with dancing?
No, I don't have a problem with dancing.
I grew up in, Baptist culture,Bible Belt of the South, no

(33:50):
problem with dancing at all.
I mean, I was pretty rebelliousand sounds like as, as things
started coming across, you were likequestioning, questioning, questioning,
which is, which is, I, I believe,I believe it's a good thing to do.
But we, Gloria and I didthe ballroom dancing.
We went, I gave it to heras a gift for Christmas.

(34:10):
at Christmas in 2019, we werein Colorado Springs for the
birth of our first grandchild.
We went to one lesson and COVIDhit and they told us that we were
going to have to do ballroom dance.
Together with my wife of 30something years in gloves and masks.
Oh my goodness.
No one else in the room, by the way.

(34:31):
Well, the instructor was there,but she kind of didn't care either.
And we were like going, you know, no,we're not, we're not going to do it.
But we actually heard similar things.
Wayne, this actually mightbe more, there more to it.
Glory heard.
You know, you don't really want to be led.
You want to lead.
I heard you're just kind of outhere doing your own thing and you're

(34:51):
not good at leading her slight man.
This, this isn't freestyle.
This is partner.
And I'm going, man, I'm freestyling here.
I'm ready to get on the floor anddo some and bump, you know, I'm
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
here.
Yeah.
similar story, but no,true, true, true story.

(35:12):
we were encouraged to go and findanother, similar kind of, passion
that we could enjoy together.
So,
maybe it's pickleballor something like that,
I did it.
I'll play, I don't know ifRoseanna will play or not, but.
so one thing that you brought upearlier, and I think you and I may
have discussed this when we firstmet, but the world we're in today.

(35:34):
Seems to be obsessed with quantity overquality, and I'll throw a few things
out and I want you to respond to it.
When I say quantity, I mean, howmany followers or people are you
influencing on your platform?
How many people are in your sphereor your group or your member
or your or your congregation?

(35:56):
How many people are showingup on a Sunday morning?
What's the number ofemployees in your community?
Company.
And all of it seems tobe related to quantity.
And you have said that your superpoweris being present in the moment.

(36:16):
I don't think the two ofthose can mix together.
I find it hard to believe that, let'sjust say Joe Pastor, pastoring a church,
I actually spoke to one yesterday,that he's attempting to grow a church,
but he's butting up against this.
you disciple and be present with,you know, 10 people, 5 people?

(36:40):
And also pay all the bills byputting 500 people in the seats.
I know, and I know you and Idiscussed some as far as challenges
with traditional ministry and all.
This doesn't, it's not just ministry,it's companies and things like that.
But,
how challenging is it for people todeal with large numbers, but still be
present in the world we're in today?

(37:03):
It was easy for us to navigate.
we chose to do weddings andfunerals at one point in time.
So we stepped away fromour street ministry.
We did it for seven years withtwelve people, ran out of money,
shut the doors down, and moved on.
What we moved to was something thatwe thought was somewhat familiar to
us, and that was, well, why don'twe do some weddings and funerals,

(37:24):
because we had no money and no income.
So that's kind of how the thing came, andwe were at the right time, right place.
The shift towards secularism was ona rapid, fast track in Canada at that
point in time when we came along.
So it was ideal for us.
And we did 187 weddings that first year.
We did three 50 the next year we did 500.

(37:44):
We built up to 125 people workingfor us to the point where we were
doing 1800 to 2, 500 weddings a year.
So I did 250 of those myself.
So the volume was there, but theuniqueness of the reality is,
is that I'm front and center.
I'm right there.
You could not get more intimate.
I'm not the photographerwith the telephoto lens.

(38:05):
I'm not the DJ at the back of the room.
I'm not the florist who walked away.
I'm not the guy in thekitchen preparing the meal.
All great people playing great roles.
I'm not the bridal planner.
I am actually at the front of,and you know what I'm talking
about, front and center.
I got a view from thefront that no one else has.
And it's just the three of us.
I don't even think about anybody else.

(38:25):
I don't think about the Brada party.
I don't think about the hundredsof guests or two guests.
I just, it's just me and them.
And you can't get more intimate than that.
When we do a funeral, it's the same thing.
It's me.
I'm on the stage all by myself, butthere might be a hundred people.
I've done funerals for peoplewhere there's thousands of people
there, like thousands of people.

(38:46):
But all I see is thefamily in the front row.
That's all I see.
I really don't see anybody else.
So this, this thing about beingpresent, Tim, it, we can be present.
The problem I have with socialmedia is like, I, I didn't know you.
And if I bumped up to you onsocial media, you and I would never

(39:06):
have what we're doing right now.
I bumped up to you in personand that's how it works.
And it's, it's, and I mean,literally someone the other day
said to me, okay, boomer, like I, Iwanted to come through the screen.
I was like, back off Bambi, right?
You gen Zed little weenie.
Like, you know, you can have all of your10 million followers on Instagram, but

(39:31):
the depth of emptiness and sadness andloneliness is pervasive and we know it is.
I saw it when a hundred peoplegot together in Sarasota,
Florida, including you and me.
And I looked around the room and Isaw pseudo relationships based upon,
and you know what made it amazing?
Listening to people say it isso good to see you in person.
It is so good to meet youface to face It's so good.

(39:53):
You're not on zoom and you're a lotsmaller than I thought you were, right?
You have
Or man, you really are tall.
Holy crap.
I didn't know you were six footnine Like when did that happen?
And the gloriousness of that istrue I am that guy that I don't
want to I don't want to pursue likes

(40:16):
I want to be present in people's livesand it's hard with social media and I
right now in consuming copious amountsof books on growing your email list
and growing your sphere of influence.
And I listened to the specialisttell me that I've got to do
social media posts every day.

(40:37):
And I sit and I look at my screen and allI can think about is that I got to get out
of here because I gotta go find somebodyright now that's standing somewhere.
what we pray every day, Rosannaand I, before we leave the house
is, you know, what God allow us anopportunity to be used of you in the
encounter of someone else's life today.

(41:01):
And that's how we do it.
And it's really hard to do it.
I despised.
church conferences wherepastors again would share
their titles and their numbers.
And I also know this.
I also know that for the most part,most of us fabricate a lot of things.
And we add another zero andanother 10 and another 50.

(41:23):
And we, we do it because somehow,some way we believe that our worth
and value is connected to that one.
In fact, it is not at all.
I promise you, I promise you.
that the funeral of the greatestInstagram influencer in the end of
the day, the number of people in heraccount or his account will never
be spoken about at their funeral.
Never.

(41:44):
Not once.
Well I've never mentionedsomeone's bank account.
I've never mentionedanything they've accumulated.
Never.
Just goes back to thatJer, Jeremiah nine passage.
We just don't do it.
But how they made them feel.
how they interacted in relationship.
That's all that matters.
And that's what we've got to strive for.
So I think we're on the cusp of,and I just woke up this morning,

(42:08):
like you wasn't a knock at the door,but it was a knock on the head.
And I've got a radio on beside me.
It's four 30 in the morning.
And this guy's talking about howgen Zed and the alpha generation are
moving back to tactile connections.
The Ringing Newspapers.
They're actually going and they'rebuying journals and they're

(42:29):
writing them with pen and paper.
They're buying albums and puttingthem on because they can hold
them and they can touch them.
CD players are still available.
People are buying tapes and they'retouching stuff and they're feeling stuff.
What is that?
It's a manifestation of the factthat I am so lost and so empty that
I will do anything I possibly can.

(42:51):
They call it, you know,reinventing analog.
Well, we never lost it.
But what it does speak to, I think isthis desperate need with inside of our
spirits and our hearts and our soulsto be somewhat more tactile than we
possibly could ever be in a world that'sbecome so digital in so many ways.
Yeah, that,
So I don't know if that answers yourquestion, but a wedding and a funeral

(43:11):
are not done unless you're present.
Yeah.
You can do a funeral via zoom.
You can't do any weddingsin Canada via zoom.
It's illegal.
You can't do it.
So there's you.
I have to be there.
It's the most glorious thingin the face of the earth.
So any listener listening tothis, that's going, I desperately
long to be with people.
Let me put you in that positionto go and stand with people

(43:32):
at weddings and funerals.
I'll tell you, it'll change yourlife because it changes their lives.
Because you
Because you can't do it any other way
and we'll get to this in a little while.
But you teach and train people to do this.
Performing
we've trained thousands
I was just thinking our 30year old son got all of my
vinyls and he has a turntable.
He lives in his RV too, but hehas a turntable with all my vinyls
and truthfully, man, there'ssome, I'm sure you may not have

(43:55):
been able to listen to him.
There's some good rockand roll stuff in there.
I'm telling you what, there's some
I don't know if you've everheard of sticks or not.
Have you ever heard of sticks?
a Solomon concert, at the Omni in Atlanta.
Okay, so I went into dorm in seminaryand I took my, took my record player
with me and I took my vinyl with me.
And I'm out one day, I'm in class and,and we're living in this, this house.

(44:19):
There's 15 of us in this houseand it's like a frat house
and I can hear sticks playing.
And it's my stereo system.
And I had a beast of a stereo system.
It's set up on the window and it'sblasting out of the third floor.
And it's just screaming across the,let's just say that it didn't take long.
I went back, the Dean ofstudents came, confiscated all

(44:41):
my albums, took them all away.
And our administrator severalyears later was a girl named
Marcy and she was a road manager.
So I'm telling her the story andshe calls Larry and she goes,
Larry, my boss needs an album.
And she goes and meets themand he signs this thing.

(45:04):
It gets all the guys to sign it.
and all it said on there was,sorry about your seminary, dude.
Yeah.
Sorry you were hanging out withall those religious people that
got rid of your stereo and albums.
The only thing, and I will say,you know, we talked about, you
know, cards could be Satan's tool.
I think eight tracks are satanic.

(45:25):
And if we go back to that, I'm gonna,I'm gonna be really ticked off.
Okay.
to see another eight track.
I'm with you.
I, I do like my cassettes thoughbecause I can get my pencil in
there and I can tighten them up.
I,
Right?
I liked making, mixtapes,I guess is the word,
Mm.
a
Mm mm.
player and I could make some jams.

(45:47):
I'm telling you what,
Well, I would record off the radio, right?
Yeah.
Remember?
about half the people thatwere listening, Wayne.
Sorry, people just dropped off when theysaid we recorded stuff off the radio.
Oh, man.
You mentioned a couple times puttingGod in a box, and when I wrote box,

(46:08):
I wrote it right beside you being achaplain and going through, I don't
know, 4, 000 plus, is that an okaynumber that you've probably officiated?
Yes.
There was a word that you sharedwith me when we had lunch that you
said it was the word that was mostcommonly as a descriptive word
of people that had passed away.

(46:31):
do you remember what that word was?
Stubborn.
Stubborn.
I wrote it down right here.
those that are still listening, is thatthe word you want to be used to describe,
to describe you upon your demise?
what else can you tell us?
We've got a few minutes left here andI want to go over some of the things
you're working on now and what you coulddo to maybe help people on their path.

(46:54):
But, what are some other just like keythings you could share that you've learned
from officiating all those services?
Man, there's, it would take forever,but let me, let me do the things
that come to mind instantaneously.
The number one characteristic usedby families to describe a loved one

(47:15):
who's passed away is the word stubborn.
It's the most common word that we hear.
And it took me a little bitof time, but not too long.
It took me a little bitof time to dig into that.
And I began to realizethere's probably a reason why.
and most of the time, no one in thefamily, because we're too close to it,

(47:40):
no one in the family was courageousenough, willing enough, open enough
to peel back some of the layersand go, why was dad so stubborn?
you know, classic case in pointof a, sitting with a family
and that's all they gave me.
Like, that's all they gave me.
But the son in law's sitting thereand he goes, I've actually got a
little bit different perspective.

(48:00):
And he shared this most extraordinarystory of how he went over every Friday
and cut his father in law's lawn.
And dad would sit on the front porchwith his arms folded, scowling,
never said thanks, never anything.
He did it for weeks and weeks and weeks.
And finally, the last week, justbefore he passed away, he called
his son in law to the front porch.
I'm shortening the story for you.
And he handed him a Mr.

(48:20):
Big Bar with a smile on his face.
He said, thank you.
He said, in that moment, the son in lawrealized no one has ever served this guy.
no one could get close to him.
And the family just sat there in shock.
And I said, well, whatdo you think it was?
And he goes, I believe he was so deeplywounded and so deeply hurt, he put

(48:41):
a bubble of stubbornness around him.
A porcupine like spikiness thatsaid, you'll never hurt me again.
But it took a son in law, anoutsider, to come in and go, I think
there's something more to the story.
Stubborn defines someonesurviving the 30s, depression.

(49:03):
Stubborn defines a familythat grew up in poverty.
When I did the funeral for one ofthem, I began to realize that poverty
was such a massive part of it.
They were stubborn enough to him tosay, I will never be like that again.
And all they did was work andwork and work and work and work
and never saw their family.
And something drives these things.
And if we're courageousenough, we can look behind it.

(49:25):
I learned that about standingand talking about people's
lives and people's journeys.
I learned from this that it's thesimplest things that matter and we
do not and we cannot live life in avacuum and we cannot live it alone.
You cannot live in the top of a pole,Simon Stylitis, and have anything
eulogized about you at the end of the day.

(49:46):
Because you fail to live in arelationship and when we fail to live in
a relationship, when we live in wealth orwe live in strength or we live in likes
or we live in, in volumes of things thatwe want to collect and we miss the people.
I got to tell you, none of thatstuff will ever be eulogized about
you at the end of the day, ever.
And in terms of couples, I gotto tell you, one of the things we
learned so quickly about all ofthis, this might be a bizarre thing.

(50:08):
We don't want to really go down thisrabbit hole, but I got to tell you a
couples that live together more thaneight years and get married, their
chances, the divorce increased by 85%.
And I got to tell you, we've sat withdozens and dozens, hundreds, thousands
of couples where I've been able to becourageous enough now to look at them and
say, are you sure you want to do this?

(50:30):
Have you had a conversationabout expectations that you
think are going to change?
Because we do.
When we marry after we've been togetherfor eight years, we're doing it because
we expect that this event itselfwill produce some kind of significant
change in the life of the other.
And it's going to be just like itwas during the two years of courtship
where the euphoria were so strongand so real that we were dense to

(50:52):
the reality that there was somethingother than that that might become
a reality two years down the road.
And I learned from that.
I learned a lot from that to beable to have those conversations
with my wife and with Roseanne.
I walk away from weddings and funeralsand one of the greatest determinations
of my life is to be a better person.
I know I have to do better.

(51:13):
Hmm.
And that's pretty cool.
That
Not too many other things in life.
I don't literally write a post onFacebook, post it, walk away and
go, I need to be a better husband.
right.
Yeah.
And so it does have that impactand that significance that we
think it has to.
No, I, I think it has to.
Yeah, they are the most malleablemoments of the human experience.
Birth, death, and marriage.

(51:33):
Hatch, match, and dispatch.
They are the most malleablemoments of the human experience.
So one thing, Wayne, before we get offof it, I've got like one or two more
questions we need to wrap up here.
One of the things that's interestingto me is that I believe that I looked
at the word stubborn as a negative.
But the way you just describedit, I'm not sure it's a negative

(51:53):
descriptor of the person.
It might be a negative observationthat we had about that person.
Did I hear that right?
I think they're still stubborn.
Oh, okay.
But it's not as much ofa negative as we thought?
Maybe?
It's still negative.

(52:13):
Okay.
But why don't we take a little bit oftime to figure out what's behind it?
It didn't take long.
when I bump into a 20 year oldwho's deemed stubborn, which
has actually never happened.
But if I were to do that, I wouldprobably be able to pull the back
of the curtain and look at abuse.
we manifest, our charactermanifests a lot of our experiences.

(52:35):
Let's just be honest.
And at the end of the day, I hearstubborn a lot I hear it all the time.
But I now no longer draw conclusions.
Oh, well, they're just obstinate bittermiserable human beings that should have
got their act together I now look at itand go maybe there's a lot more of the
story than anyone ever know Or does knowAnd when you start to dig in a little

(52:56):
bit of do you begin to realize why?
Hmm.
Yeah, and I'm some unbelievablestories like some absolutely
unbelievable overcoming storiesThat happened to produce a character
of protective stubbornness thatwas placed within their lives.
So, I don't jump to thoseconclusions as much as I used to.
And I think that's a good thing.

(53:18):
Right.
I think we need to learn that skill set.
Let's not conclude too quickly.
We might not have all of the pieces of thepuzzle that form the picture that we have
or the image that we've created for you.
Let's, let's give a littlegrace and maybe let's find out
a little bit more information.
quick question.
they can still be stubborn, though.

(53:38):
quick sidebar question.
I'm hearing something thatsounds like scratching.
Is that coming from your end?
I didn't think you could hear it.
uh, you've got man's best friendthere with you that is digging
a hole underneath your desk.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Yeah.

(54:03):
I don't know what it is.
Is there some kind of divinething that God places in dogs?
We talk, he squeaks.
Like, what the heck?
All right.
Well, we're,
Anyway, I apologize.
we're gonna have to leave itin, so the listener, I just
want the listener to know that,
Listeners should know that it'snot me, it's not my stomach,
it's not anything other than thatmy dog has got this squeaker.
not to be crass,
like that with this
no, no, no.

(54:23):
hey, Wayne, what type personDoes it take to do what you do to
officiate weddings and funerals?
what type person you say shouldreach out to you if they would be
interested in, in learning more?
You know, the ideal person,Tim, is the individual who finds

(54:45):
themselves naturally at crossroadsof life, wanting to serve people.
I believe that's how broad it can be.
Yeah,
I believe that if you see yourselfas somebody that wants to serve
others, then this is an incredibleopportunity to be able to do it.
and,

(55:05):
of the time, pastors never do it becauseit's more obligatory than it is blessing.
And we just saw it as a blessing.
We just realized that for mostpeople, they don't have someone
to serve them at these crossroads.
And we just said, you know what?
We want to be there.
Sign me up.
I want to be there.
And literally thousands ofpeople have come with us.
There's a lot of peoplethat shouldn't be there.

(55:26):
right,
They're there for the wrong reasons.
They're there because theywant to be a standup comic.
They're there because theywant their name in lights.
They're there because they feel likethey're God's gift to the universe.
You got to look at it and go,no, that's not why you're there.
You're there to serve them.
So if inspiration is a part ofwho you are, you love inspiring
people, do a wedding and a funeral.
There is no betteropportunity to inspire people.
Hmm.
think of, again, think aboutthe malleability of the heart.

(55:49):
People are on the edge oftheir seat at a wedding.
People renew their vows at a wedding.
You start the vows and you see armsgo around hands are held tears run
down people's cheeks You get tothen I now pronounce you husband
or wife people are jumping up anddown and there's this celebration
That's powerful.
That's life changing That's influential.
That's impactful And I believethat anybody who has those kind

(56:10):
of inspiring passions withintheir life impactful passions.
They need to be here We needa lot more passionate people
so they don't have to necessarilybe a preacher, pastor, or
no, actually, they're the,
all that kind of stuff's good?
it's best to have people come to uswho have no baggage, no previous,
I don't think I know anybody like that.

(56:30):
most pastors, but,
But,
I say it because I lived in that worldfor years, full time pastor for years.
thing about this, and, andagain, this goes to the motive.
It's not about the money,but there is money involved.
Correct.
This is a business, right?
Is there, I mean, there's abusiness component to this, correct?
Well, yeah, we've mademillions officiating weddings.

(56:52):
I mean, you just don't get it.
just think about it, right?
We're doing a couple of thousand weddingsa year at 500 each kind of thing.
You do the math.
certainly we're, we're paying peopleto be a part of that, but year after
year after year after year, and weknow lots and lots of people who are
self sustaining being able to do this.
People are always going to get married.

(57:13):
People always die.
And when babies come along, we now, Oursociety has replaced everything that we
used to do with babies with gender reveal.
which I got to tell you, Iloathe seeing those things pop
I, I'll loathe themtoo, but you know what?
We are a society that must celebrate.

(57:34):
We are, we are a culturethat must celebrate.
Right?
Am I right?
We have to.
Yeah.
and I'll tell you, you know what'shappened in the funeral world?
Is because there's no greatquality people leading funerals,
people are doing nothing.
Yeah.
They're choosing to do nothing,
so Wayne, I've got one more questionand, But before I do that, tell people
if they want to find out more aboutthis chaplaincy role, which is able to

(57:59):
marry and bury and officiate these lifeevents, where can they go to find out more
about this and connect with you on that?
You know, we have so manywebsites because we're so diverse.
The best thing to do is justGoogle my name and you'll find
about five on any pages on Google
Okay.
you'll find something in there that willallow you to connect with this either

(58:21):
the wedding world, the funeral world.
We don't usually combine them together,but I believe that if you're doing
weddings, you should be doing funerals.
And if you're doing funerals,you should be doing weddings.
But let's be honest, thereare some people wired better.
Rosanna's phenomenal at funerals.
I'm a little unpredictable andthat kind of scares people.
I'm concerned.
I would go off script and and andalso I'm I'm a I'm a bit of a wing

(58:45):
it, you know I'd like to say I'mmoved by the spirit, but it would
Moved by the spirit.
you mention, you know, some peoplethink they're stand up comedians.
I'm going gosh that
Yeah.
you know what I
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
school and they were teaching ushow to marry and bury, I said, can
I do one at the same, can I do,can I combine those two services?

(59:06):
And they, they didn'treally care for that.
They really, the Bible
What?
did not really like, no, that no sense
see they're out of bounds.
I've done tons of funerals at gravesites.
wow, wow, wow, wow.
all right.
Yeah.
last question.
Tons of weddings at gravesites.
What did I say?
Funerals at gravesites?
I've done tons of weddings at gravesites.
Really?
at gravesites.
Yes, tons.

(59:27):
So, we're gonna, I'm gonna get a couplelinks for you and we'll put down in
the notes on both YouTube and on,the podcast platform so that someone
can get more info if they want to.
When we had lunch, you commented thatyou're from Canada, which is already
a post christian nation, you nowlive in the United States, I think
in Lynchburg, Virginia, and you saythat we are close to being that.

(59:51):
If you had a message in about, oh, I don'tknow, 60 seconds, that you would like to
share with people south of that border, inthe lower 48 or United States, about what
post christian and where we're headed.
If you, if I gave you just a littlebit of final word before we wrap
here, what would you want to tell us?

(01:00:11):
Secularism is at your doorstep.
And the first thing you needto do is acknowledge that.
you have to embrace the realitythat socialism is, and secularism
is knocking at your door.
Let's just take socialism off.
Let's just talk secularism.
It's at your door.
It's already there andyou're surrounded by it.
You can just simply lookat the political climate.

(01:00:33):
You can simply look at a map that'sthrown up on TV and you can go, Okay,
well, I kind of see where secularismalready has established roots and
they're very firmly, very clear.
And then you can look at otherparts of the country, the U.
S. and go, Okay, well, maybesecularism is not there.
It's those group of people thatscare me more than anything else.
Because if you live with a senseof naivety, you're going to miss
opportunities of being able tobe influential and impactful

(01:00:55):
and inspirational in a worldthat desperately needs it.
Secularism, I despise theistic globalism.
I absolutely despise it.
What I believe is that we needto be present in people's lives.
I don't think the answer was toChristianize every nation in the world,
it's to go and preach the gospel,it's to go and share Jesus Christ,

(01:01:15):
and it's being able to impact people'slives with the truth of Jesus Christ.
Go to all the nationsand preach the gospel.
That's the only thing I see that's there.
Doesn't say go to all the nationsand make everybody, right, come
on board with what you believe.
So here we are in a world thatliterally, we're so mad about the
fact that secularism is in such afast pace that we just circled the
wagons, closed our church doors.

(01:01:37):
put little barriers around us andsaid, well, if you don't want to
abide by how we want to do things,we want nothing to do with you.
That's the, that's the worst decision.
And that's what caused Christianityand the church to be completely
non influential in Europe,Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.
We closed the doors, circledthe wagons and said, sucks.

(01:01:58):
It's horrible.
It's awful.
I can't believe how bad secularism is.
People won't come to church anymore.
We've done everything we know how to do.
No, you haven't.
Close your doors.
Shut, shut the buildings down.
Get out into where people live.
Get into the hot tubs in your55 plus community and start
talking about Jesus Christ.
Now I'm dead serious.
Listen, missional communitiesis the path forward.

(01:02:20):
Nobody can stop a missional community.
Nobody can stop a Tim and his wife anda handful of other Christians that you
might find around you from influencingpeople for the kingdom of God.
No one can stop that.
No COVID can stop it.
No political party can stop it.
Nothing can stop it.
But we see these catastrophicthings happening.
900 churches a month closing in theU. S. And all I see is a bunch of

(01:02:42):
people sulking over in the corner.
Going, we're going the wrong way.
You know what?
Shut up.
Maybe it's best for you to shut it down.
Go back out where you belong.
Live life like Jesus did.
And maybe you'll find thatyou can have an influence.
But, when we live with such delusion,That it's never going to happen.
If we put more energy intoglobalizing Christianity, we've

(01:03:05):
got ourself a massive problem.
We are in absolute denial.
It's coming and it's coming witha vengeance in the U S faster
than it ever has in anywhere elsethat secularism has ever advanced.
We should be afraid of it.
Secularism, Tim, in Canada hasallowed us opportunities to talk about
Jesus in the ways that we couldn'tback in the seventies and eighties.

(01:03:27):
We can now talk about Jesus Christ freely.
I'm talking to people in Canada who'venever even heard about Jesus Christ.
How cool is that?
I'm in the belt buckle of theBible Belt in Lynchburg, Virginia.
I'm telling you, 450 churches with 75,000 people, and there's not a single
person in the city of Lynchburg thatbelieves the message I tell them, not one.
not one, not one pastor, notone Christian I've talked to.

(01:03:48):
They're like, what do you mean?
Church is fine.
Everything's fine.
Look at all the people come to church.
Okie dokie.
It's good.
Well, it's good.
And I'm not anti church.
I am pro people, not really probuildings where we gather and hide.
it was a great message.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad I pulled that string because,I did hear a passionate tone in your

(01:04:12):
voice that I really, really liked.
Um,
of prophetic when it comes to thingsand it does it annoys some people
but I think there's too much atstake I I really do and I and I mean
that honestly God came to earth.
He didn't need to do that, but hedid he came and he said I want you
to do it this way I'm, just going tomake it as clear and crystal clear
as I possibly can for you And thenwe kind of looked at this amazing

(01:04:34):
example of jesus and went the other way
wow.
were like no, I don't thinkwe're going to do that, you know,
well, why wouldn't you do that?
Do what he did.
5, 10 or 8 people.
I don't know.
Find three people.
Turn the world upside down.
He did.
I love it.

(01:04:55):
you, Wayne.
Thank you.
That's a great glimpse of the future.
Thanks for joining ushere at Seek Go Create.
We release new episodes every Monday.
We also appreciate all thesupport you've been giving us.
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Wayne mentioned wine and whiskey.
That's
Ooh,
I
bourbon.
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(01:05:16):
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