April 14, 2025 • 57 mins
Have you ever wondered how personal storytelling can transform your brand and alleviate anxiety? Dive into this engaging episode of Seek, Go, Create, where host Tim Winders welcomes Dr. Robyn Graham, a business growth strategist and author of "You, Me, and Anxiety." Explore how integrating authenticity into your branding can not only propel your professional success but also foster personal peace and resilience. Listen in to discover the profound impact of embracing your true self in the world of business and beyond. Don't miss this enlightening conversation packed with insights on navigating mental health in leadership and building deeper relationships.
"We cannot be anxious and grateful at the same time. It's absolutely imperative that we offset some of that anxiety by looking at all the good things that we have in our life." - Robyn Graham
Access all show and episode resources HERE
About Our Guest:
Robyn Graham is an accomplished business growth strategist and the author of "You, Me, and Anxiety." With a background in pharmacy and extensive experience in marketing and branding, Robyn has transitioned her skills into helping entrepreneurs build authentic brands that integrate personal narratives. Her work emphasizes the importance of authenticity not only for business success but also for personal well-being, particularly in managing anxiety. Robyn is a certified brand specialist and hosts her own podcast, using her platform to help individuals and businesses thrive by embracing their true selves.
Reasons to Listen:
- Understanding Anxiety's Impact in the Workplace: Discover why over fifty percent of people in the United States face anxiety and how it can affect workplace dynamics, team interactions, and overall productivity.
- Authenticity in Branding and Anxiety Management: Learn from Robyn Graham on how integrating personal narratives into branding can enhance business success while also providing a pathway to better manage anxiety.
- Sleep and Mental Health Connection: Uncover the crucial role of sleep in managing anxiety and how establishing a restful routine can positively transform your personal and professional life.
Episode Resources & Action Steps:
Resources Mentioned:
- Robyn Graham's Website: You can find more about Robyn Graham, her work, and resources she offers at therobingraham.com. This includes access to her podcast, blog, and free resources.
- The Book: "You, Me, and Anxiety: Take Action Over Anxiety to Enjoy Being You" by Robyn Graham. This book offers insights into managing anxiety and provides practical steps for both individuals experiencing anxiety and those around them.
Action Steps for Listeners:
- Establish a Nighttime Routine for Better Sleep: As discussed in the episode, creating a calming bedtime routine can significantly aid in managing anxiety. This could include journaling, reading, or other activities that ease your mind before sleeping.
- Practice Gratitude: Robyn emphasizes the importance of a gratitude practice. Taking time each day to focus on what you're thankful for can help reduce anxiety and shift your focus to the positive aspects of your life.
- Seek Help if Needed: If you resonate with the anxiety discussed in the episode, consider reaching out to a therapist or a healthcare professional. There's no shame in seeking help, and it can lead to better understanding and management of your mental...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There are so many things about mentalhealth that can impact how a person
(00:05):
performs, what their quality of workis, what their quantity of work is, how
they interact, and with a team, how theyeither produce or bring a team down.
So it really is important thatwe have this conversation.
Well over 50% of people in theUnited States have anxiety, a
clinical diagnosis of anxiety thatdoesn't even include the people that
(00:28):
have it and have not sought help.
So chances are if you are in aleadership role, there's someone on
your team who may be experiencing thisor experiencing it with their child.
(00:50):
How can sharing your personal story,transform your brand, and help manage
anxiety today on seek go create.
We're joined by Dr. Robin Graham, abusiness growth strategist and author of
you, me, and Anxiety Robin specializesin integrating personal narratives into
branding, believing that authenticitynot only enhances business success,
(01:10):
but also helps in coping with anxiety.
Listen in as we discuss how embracingyour true self in your brand can lead
to not just professional triumph,also personal peace and resilience.
Welcome, welcome to Seek.
Go Create Robin.
Thank you, Tim.
That was a very lovely introduction.
I appreciate it.
Oh, thanks.
we've already kinda given thepreface that I might have a little
(01:32):
cold here, so I'm gonna ask forsome forgiveness from the audience.
But we're gonna enjoy this conversation,just finish reading your book and you
do business stuff and all, like I doin some ways, so I'm sure it's unique.
We'll talk about that.
But we really launch into all of that,why don't you answer the question
(01:54):
either what do you do or who are you?
Pick it and go ahead and answer.
All right.
That's a tough decision andprobably you're gonna get an
answer that's combined here.
so who am I?
I am a child of God.
I love Jesus.
(02:14):
And I'm a mom of three, twoadult children and one teenager.
I have two dogs.
I am an author, a speaker.
I am working on my a CC credentialsright now for solution focused and
neuro focused neuroscience coaching.
So I am a woman who has myhands in many mini pots, and
(02:38):
they're always being stirred.
You ever feel like youhave too much going on?
Yeah.
This is one of those weeks whereI feel like, I am on, emotionally
and sensory tired this week.
You know, like there's likeall of that at one time.
Usually managing Energy's areally great gift that I have, but
(02:59):
this week's been a little rough,
Well, I've already shared with you alittle bit rough for my wife and I. In
fact, one of the things that we really.
Purpose to do?
Is it when we're feeling a littlebit puny like we are right now
with some little crud, we trynot to make any big decisions.
Like we were planning sometravel and some things like that.
We say, you know what, let's don'tmake those decisions right now.
(03:21):
This is not a good time, andthat's not the way we're wired.
We just want to keep powering through,So, you know, someone would listen
and what's odd, let's go ahead and getpseudo controversial to start off with.
It's very often that men canhave this long list of stuff and
people don't think much about it.
(03:42):
But then when women do, they kind ofstart getting, it seems like you got a
lot going on Do you feel like it's a goodexample to be that, productive at times
do you wonder if maybe there are peoplethat look at you and can get intimidated?
That's the way I'll ask it.
Oh, you know, that's a reallygood question, and I think
it's a combination of the two.
(04:02):
I think it's very individual.
I don't think we can judgewhat someone else gets done
compared to what we get done.
We're, we're all two different, or twodifferent, multiple different people.
We're wired differently.
some of us are very task oriented.
Some of us are just thought.
You know, thought work is betterfor them versus the actual to-do.
(04:23):
And I know for me, I'm a bigto-do list check offerer, and I
pride myself in all that I can do.
I'm also very good about making sure I getmy sleep, I make sure I get my exercise.
Those are things people don't see.
Right.
Where we actually do nurture ourselves.
And when you emphasize the thingsthat are really important for your
(04:47):
mind, body, and soul, people don't seethat part, My devotions every morning
or my, my Bible study every morningthat sets the, the tone of what I'm
gonna be able to do during the day.
And so I, it is funny becauseI think people do look at other
people and think, gosh, they get somuch done and I get nothing done.
But it's all how we use our time andit's all how we preserve our energy.
(05:09):
Right?
Yeah.
And I, and I see, let, let's go aheadand we'll throw this into the mix.
There are a lot of people that streamingwhatever shows on Netflix, you know, and
watching all episodes there, every sport.
You know, we're recording this inMarch-ish, where there's about to be
(05:30):
a bazillion college basketball games.
And my guess is you're probably notsitting in front of television a good bit.
No,
barely have it.
no.
and what's interesting at the age we'reat, I love that you brought this up 'cause
I think this might feed into successin business and also the conversation
about anxiety and that is of rest.
(05:52):
self-care is an odd word.
I have to be careful with that.
Mm-hmm.
it's more of just knowing.
Being aware of what you can andcan't do and when you need to do
Mm-hmm.
things like that.
I think self-care may have been usedin an odd way, but, I do think it's
important for us to understand that.
I used to be one of these people,Robin, that was pretty prideful
(06:14):
and that's the right word to use,
Mm-hmm.
sleep much at night
Mm-hmm.
boasted about it, and that's the correct
Mm-hmm.
Now.
Man, I'm loving when I can getme some good rest and sleep
Mm-hmm.
refreshed.
And I'm a little bit off right nowbecause I've been waking up in the
middle of the night coughing some.
(06:34):
Mm-hmm.
a little fatigue, but I'm also tryingnot to pile on anything over the
next few days until my body says,okay, we're a little bit better.
Mm-hmm.
let's go ahead and kind of get intoa little bit of the conversation
about your book with, with anxiety,which I did read by the way.
I've got, uh, your book, you, me,and Anxiety, and I've got some
(06:56):
confessions that I'll make in justa second about it that, uh, might
make it for a fun conversation.
how important is what you justbrought up related to one item
of anxiety and that is the rest.
And taking care of yourself andknowing what you can and can't do.
It matters more than anyone can imagine.
(07:17):
you know, when we sleep, ourbody resets, our entire nervous
system resets, and we need that.
We're not meant to go, go, go, go, go.
And it, I learned at a veryyoung age, I need sleep.
Two of my sisters and my momcan go on very little sleep.
My other sister and I, we need our sleep.
(07:37):
And, you know, if we haven't gotten it,like everything about my nervous system
is off if I don't get enough rest.
And so, you know, it's, and, and Ithink there, there is this, you know,
time is finite, but energy is fluid.
We can create more energy, butit's a matter of how we care
for our mind, body, and spirit.
And so if you're one of those people thatis like an energizer bunny and can go,
(08:00):
go, go, go, that's great, but eventuallyyou're not gonna get enough time.
Your energy might run out.
So you have to ask yourself, okay, ifI have this much time, and even if you
were given 10 hours a day more, andyou had 34 hours in a day, would you be
able to do everything that you wanna do?
(08:20):
And the answer is probably no, becauseyou would run out of energy, right?
So we have to balance those things.
It's not, it's not time or energy, it'sa matter of, okay, I have this much time.
How can I manage my energy todo everything else I need to
do and have solid relationshipsin that other 16 hours?
So one thing you mentioned earlierthat you were a task person
(08:43):
list maker, check things off.
My wife is that way.
She, she does things, she willoften, this is a little bit of
a joke within our, or house.
She'll do something and if it wasn'ton the list, she'll put it on the
list so she could check it off.
That's slight exaggeration.
But if she were sitting here withme, she would say, of course.
I mean, 'cause that's how I get my
Yeah,
of accomplishment.
(09:04):
one of the things,
your wife.
yeah, you would love glory.
And when you, meet her, if you getan email from her on the bottom
it says, you have been glorified.
So anyway, one of the things that.
She and I discuss, Thisis related to sleep.
This is kind of a little bit ofa personal question about sleep.
She will lay down at night and herlist will continue to turn in her
(09:28):
head, which makes it a little bitdifficult at times to fall asleep.
Initially, I'm pretty good atlaying down and I'm out now.
I might wake up three, 4:00 AMwhatever, and then I'll start
thinking about a couple of things.
But being a task person talkingabout how important sleep is, do
those two conflict with you at all?
(09:49):
With the way I just brought that up?
So I'm very much like your wife,
Okay.
a notebook by my bed so that if I thinkof something, I can put that I don't
have my phone by my bed, but I have anotebook by my bed so that I can, if
something comes to mind as I'm fallingasleep, or if something comes to mind
(10:10):
in the middle of the night, I can putit in that notebook versus getting up.
So it helps me get back to sleep faster.
they talk about sleep hygiene and it's, Itry to follow all of that because sleep is
so important to me, but I read before I goto bed, so that quiets my nervous system
just enough that I can, I can go to sleep
(10:31):
Right.
most nights stay asleep.
So do you, do you read like anactual paper type book, or do
you read from like a Kindle?
You said you don't do your phone,which we, we've had discussions
about that and unfortunately, mywife will sometimes bring her phone
because, you know, we've got adultchildren and sometimes she thinks I've
gotta gotta be available for ' em.
(10:51):
I'm going, you know what, if there'san emergency, they need to call 9 1 1.
be around in the morning.
That's, so there's a little bitof a, that's a father versus
mother probably conversation, but,what, what are some other things?
I mean, I, I, I think this wholesleep conversation, which were,
it was not on my notes anywhere, Ithink it's vital to a lot of success.
(11:13):
Mm-hmm.
gimme some of the other things that youdo just for your sleep health, the list.
Well,
I think I'm doing a good bit, butI'd love to hear what you're doing.
well, I have my nighttime routine, right?
You know, the whole wash the va brushthe teeth, or, you know, all that stuff.
Of course, as anybody does, butit, it kind of starts where,
(11:33):
you know, I go upstairs and.
I'm done.
When I go upstairs, everybodyknows I'm done for the day.
And sometimes my, it's a jokebecause I'll say, oh, I'm
gonna go up and take a shower.
And people are, everybody is like, isshe gonna do it or is she gonna be back?
And then I'm back and then I'mback up and then I'm back down.
'cause I think of things so every,it's a joke in our house, but
(11:54):
that's just how my brain works.
'cause it's always going.
But what I do is, what I like to do ismy phone's put away at a certain time.
I don't have social media apps on myphone, so I'm not tempted to go on them.
I figure if, by seven o'clock at night,I'm done with work, nobody's emailing me.
And if they are emailing me, it'sgonna wait till the next day.
My clients know nine to fiveis when they're gonna get me.
(12:17):
So it's setting those boundaries.
My family all knows after nineo'clock, don't call, don't text,
I'm gonna be getting ready for bed.
Doesn't mean I'm in bed at that time,but I don't want to be on my device.
I don't want things triggeringadditional to-dos or whatever.
And then when I get in bed, I domy journaling, I do my prayers
(12:38):
and or a devotion and then I read.
And that's just my time to really closeout my day when I have my gratitude
practice, which I think is an absolutenecessity for me to look back on my
day and find at least three things.
Normally there's way more thanthat, that I sit and I write out.
I thank God for everythingthat happened that day.
Sometimes things weren't thatgreat, but I learned a lesson.
(13:00):
Sometimes things didn'tget done and I can say yet.
it's really putting the focuson the positive before I
close my eyes and go to sleep.
There.
There there's two or three things thatI love about what you just said there,
and I'm glad I asked the question.
One of the first things was not allowingother people's emergencies to spill over.
(13:23):
years ago, I used to be a coach inthe real estate space where people
would buy and sell properties and somepeople would pay, and they paid a lot
of money for me to be their coach.
would say, can I getyour cell phone number?
This was.
around the time smartphones were comingalong, I said, no, you don't need
my cell phone, email, or, you know,we've got a little forum and all that.
(13:43):
They go, but what if I have an emergency?
And this was my comment.
Exactly.
This is real estate.
There are no emergencies in real estate.
I'm sorry.
If there's an emergency, you call 9 1 1.
Well, what if I've gota deal or something?
It'll wait till tomorrow.
well what if I don't get it?
That's fine.
We weren't supposed to get it.
so I, I love that you brought up say,you know what, I'm shutting down.
(14:05):
I don't need any of these emergencies.
I like that.
Another thing, and this is sort ofa, can't believe we're having this
discussion about, um, showering at night.
And I'm not sure how appropriatethis is, but I used to, I
used to be like a morning.
Shower person, I've realized, and I trackmy sleep a little bit now, I do much
(14:28):
Mm-hmm.
a hot tub and or warm shower at
Mm-hmm.
sleep so much better.
Mm-hmm.
might be your rhythm, correct?
it just completely relaxes me andsets me up for a good night's sleep.
And then just everything fromthe day is gone and it's just,
I'm resetting for the next day.
(14:49):
And I think it's important to do that.
Yeah.
And you know, when you talkedabout the emergency thing too.
I mean, having had anxiety myentire life, it's like, you know,
there's always that concern.
What if something happens?
What if they can't reach me?
if something did happen to my boyswho are grown, what am I gonna do?
They don't live with me.
(15:10):
So eventually I'm gonna findout if they need our advice.
they contact us during the daytime,we usually have touchpoints, a text
or if we check in, throughout the day.
But I can't spend my entireadult life worrying about.
Somebody needing me inthe middle of the night.
If it happens, it happens, butI'm up early so there's not
(15:32):
that many hours in between.
like they're gonna miss that much.
Yeah.
10:00 PM and 5:00 AM then maybepeople shouldn't have been doing
that or something like that.
But, I,
I just know my limits and I know thatto be the person that God's calling me
to be a good mom, a good business personand do all the things I need my rest.
So it's a priority.
And I think when you talk toearlier, you asked, about the
(15:55):
book and how important is that?
Sleep is incredibly importantfor anyone who has anxiety.
we all have a choice, right?
you can have a diagnosis of anxiety.
you can feel all of these feelingsand experience all these emotions.
And you can just continue down that path,or you can choose to adjust your lifestyle
(16:16):
and adjust your habits so that they'rehealthy and it, you can navigate it so it
becomes living with anxiety or, you know,having anxiety and, and suffering through
it, to living with it, but managing it,navigating it, and loosening that rope
of control that it's had around you.
(16:36):
And it kind of feeds into somethingthat popped in my head just now,
and that is, I love the structureyou're talking about in your life.
And so my question related tothat is, did you grow up with
structure or is it something thatyou have developed over time?
(17:00):
I mean, there were four of us, somy mom was a very young, as you
know, from reading the book, a veryyoung mom and my dad worked a lot.
So there were, I would say wehad some semblance of structure.
Like, you know, dinner was atthe same time, every day we, you
know, got up at whatever time togo to school and stuff like that.
(17:21):
it wasn't a rigid structure, but probablyjust enough where my body and my.
Brain liked routine.
I've always been very habitual, veryroutine oriented, so I would say that I
had exposure to that when I was young,and then as I got older, I just knew what
(17:42):
I needed and I've always adhered to that.
Right.
And another thing I recall from readingyour story in the book there, there
were some challenging times growing up
Mm-hmm.
one of the things that I'veobserved, is that many times chaos
or disorder or some dysfunction
(18:03):
Mm-hmm.
Can impact our mental state and can impact
Mm-hmm.
anxiety and things like that.
Just is, I, I think I'lljust leave it at that.
What would you like to say about maybehow were raised or some things from your,
from your story fed into you dealingwith this and working through this?
(18:29):
Hmm, that's such a good question.
And it's, it's probably, waydeeper than the time we have here.
But what I'll say is that when you growup in a, in a dysfunctional environment,
and you know, I had very lovingparents, but there's something called
epigenetics and they will flow down.
And no matter what you're doing and whoyou think you are, these things are all
(18:51):
going to impact behaviors and choices.
And mental health was somethingthat was not discussed.
It wasn't something you got treated for.
and so all those factors tend to buildand that leads to a lack of stability.
And when you have.
a genetic predisposition to anxiety.
Those emotional instabilities or thatemotional chaos is going to lead to
(19:16):
a lot of nervous system agitation.
lack of ability to regulate yourself.
And it just leads to seekingdifferent things to try to control the
environment that you can't control.
So I would say thatdefinitely has an impact.
Absolutely, 100% has an impact on howwe behave, the choices we make, how we
(19:42):
develop in relationships, all of that.
And one of the things that I noticedin reading through the book, and this
was probably one of the reasons why Iwanted to, have a chat with you, is that
I know you work with business people.
We'll discuss that shortly 'cause I'd loveto know more about, what you do there.
But the book was somethingthat intrigued me.
(20:05):
I wonder at times if I don't haveenough compassion for people that
might have anxiety, because mostpeople that are around me would
say that I don't have any of that.
Maybe I do, maybe I don't.
But that's probably not the way I'm wired.
(20:26):
Mm-hmm.
mean, there was some things that I read inthe book and some other things like that.
I'm going, you know, I may havesaid, get over it before, which
Mm-hmm.
is actually
Mm-hmm.
what do people need to know about
if we don't that, we'vegot our own issues?
There's probably other things that wecould discuss, but if that's not something
(20:50):
we deal with, what do we need to know?
So, such a great question.
It's one of the reasonswhy I wrote the book.
But first of all, Tim, you don'tknow what you don't know, right?
in the book, I give an exampleof an incident we had with
our son and my husband had noidea how to deal with anxiety.
(21:11):
I had lived with it my entire life.
And so when we started to seethat happening with our son,
I was trying to help him.
In the way that I knew best becauseI had been in his shoes, I had
experienced what he was experiencing.
And my husband was like, just do it.
And I'm like, you can't do that to him.
(21:32):
You know?
It was this whole scene at the kitchentable and, it, it was at no fault of his.
He did not know.
And so, you know, you mayhave said, get over it.
And trust me, I have kids with anxiety.
So it's, it's very easyto want to say that.
Like, just put your boots on and let's go.
It doesn't work that way.
And that is one of the reasons Iwrote the book, was because what's
(21:55):
happening in our teen society is kidsare being bullied every single day.
They're being accused of being weird.
People don't understand them.
And when there's a lack ofunderstanding, there's judgment.
Right?
And so.
I mean to tell my story, like I havea really great life, but there were a
(22:17):
lot of hiccups along the way, right?
A lot of things I had toovercome and navigate.
So it's not that I'm special in tellingmy story when kids are struggling and
people don't understand what they'restruggling with, you can't help them.
So if I can increase the awarenessof anxiety, and now we hear a lot
more about anxiety and a lot moreabout depression and mental health
(22:38):
challenges than we ever have before.
There are a lot of people outthere who use it as an excuse.
They use it as an excuse for poorbehavior, poor choices for lashing,
lashing out at other people, fornot respecting other people, for
doing drugs or other things, right?
Making unhealthy choices.
(22:58):
Affect other people and influenceother people's lives in a negative way.
So when you say that, if you're dealingwith someone who is using it as a crutch
or an excuse to get their way or to notdo things that they need to do or to not
be a productive member of society, I cansee where that frustration and lack of
compassion would be, but only becauseI've done the work I've done, and when
(23:23):
we talk about navigating anxiety, it iswork just like changing your mindset.
Just like you know anything elsethat you want to accomplish that's
gonna be meaningful in your life.
It's work, it's action.
It's doing something to move throughit, to push yourself forward.
It takes action to succeedno matter what it is.
(23:46):
And it's no different with mental health.
Now, when I sat down to write thebook, I. wanted other teens to
recognize this kid may be peculiar.
You may not understand them, but givethem the grace to get curious and try
to get to know them because underneaththese strange behaviors or this inability
(24:08):
to talk to someone at school or this,you know, need to kind of hide in a
corner, that doesn't mean they're weird.
It doesn't mean they don't have feelings.
It doesn't mean that they'reincapable of having a relationship.
It means that they're wireda little bit differently.
So instead of judging them and shunningthem or bullying them, get curious.
(24:30):
And sometimes all it takes is asmile to change the course of a
child or a teen or adult's life.
They could be wanting to end theirlife that day and someone just
showing they care can completely turnthat around and change the outcome.
at what age, you become aware, or, youmentioned you've done a lot of work.
(24:54):
Did you start doing workor get help or whatever?
What was your age when that occurred?
So the first time I got helpwas in college, and that was
around an eating disorder.
and then that was kind of, I thinkthe only way I survived was because
my mother and grandmother prayedall the time and my dad, but, I
(25:16):
never had true help, like reallydedicated help until I was an adult.
I got the help I needed as we wereseeking the help my son needed.
So, way too long, way too long.
Hmm.
I was in the medicalprofession I should have known.
I knew everything, but it wasn't untilI was in my twenties that I actually
(25:37):
had that, first experience with therapyand understanding more about myself
and my emotions I learned a lot.
I tried to navigate it all on my own.
But that official help I got wasn'tuntil I was in my, I don't even know
how old I was, but I was an adult.
Later.
It was later.
It was
It was later.
(25:58):
It was too later.
we'll say a few years later.
was too later.
the interim, would yousay you were managing it?
Were you, as Tim saidearlier, dealing with it?
Were you ignoring it?
how would you
'cause to me, it seems like that'sprobably where a lot of people are.
I would say that I was managing it
Hmm.
of the time.
(26:19):
Hmm.
not all of the time.
And it's those times when I wasn'tmanaging it that I really wish I had
been, because, you know, losing my mind,so to speak, and getting irritated and
angry over stupid things was not cool.
And, you know, I could havehurt relationships doing that.
(26:39):
Now, fortunately, I was relativelyaware, relatively in control, but there
are a lot of times where I could havehad better conversations or I could
have handled a situation differently.
I have missed out on a lot in my lifebecause I was too afraid to step into it
too, focused on the what ifs versus thiscould be great if I just gave it a chance.
(27:03):
So I would say, to anyone who thinksthat there may be something off.
It is 1000% worth just seeing atherapist talking to your doctor,
ask questions, read the book,just to understand what happens.
(27:25):
Because what happens a lot of times ispeople live with certain symptoms for
their entire life and they're like,I don't know why I'm the way I am.
I hate the way I am.
This is so stupid.
And they develop guilt and shame andall these things when the reality is
there, it's a chemical imbalance in thebrain, or there's a neural pathway that
just keeps firing in a negative way.
(27:45):
like a Ferris wheel.
you have the Ferris wheel andit's going round and round and
round, and it slows down to letpeople off and let new people on.
Our brain gets so in these tracks ofthis, this spinning cycle that it just
keeps going faster and faster and faster.
So there's no time to letthe negative thoughts off and
positive thoughts come in.
And that's where we have to startto recognize, okay, this is not.
(28:11):
I'm gonna use air quotes for normal, foranyone who's not watching but listening.
you know, and recognizing that and thenactually doing the work to say, okay,
nobody else is thinking this way about me.
Nobody else is thinking thisway about this situation.
It's probably not as badas what I'm thinking it is.
So how can I change that thoughtor really be in tune to my body and
(28:37):
what's happening, what I'm feeling andwhat's building up as these thoughts
are occurring and where can I takea step back and try to rewire those
neural pathways in my brain, reroutethem to be able to navigate that?
Right.
you mentioned earlier, you said somethingabout your husband and there was a,
(28:58):
that I have, I've got your book here.
I'm on page 70 This is, said, having andmaintaining relationships might be the
most challenging part for people anxiety.
I'm guessing from the way you'vetalked and, you know, have children
and all that, that, you and John haveprobably like most couples, gone through
(29:19):
stuff, but yet, still here you are.
Tell me more about the challengewith relationships and anxiety.
Sure.
So when a person has anxiety,oftentimes they don't trust.
So if they don't trust, that can be,and I've always trusted my husband.
That hasn't been necessarily likea bad thing in our relationship.
However, that lack of trustleads to hypersensitivity, a
(29:42):
lack of confidence in self.
So you become hypersensitiveright to wait.
Did they?
Say that, well, what does that mean?
And instead of asking you react,right, so it's not just absorbing,
it's not just considering.
It's, a lot of times it's reactionary,or accusatory, things like that.
(30:03):
I mean, fortunately my husband's beenpretty great, so I don't have a lot of
complaints there, but there have beentimes where it's like, no, like, you
know, I just have to say like, you can'tsay that to me, like that, that doesn't
sit well with me because of X, Y, Z.
So I've had to explain, and for yearsI didn't explain, and for years we
just kind of went through the motions.
(30:25):
But when I wrote my book and he readmy book, he was like, I had no idea.
Like, he had no idea about any of that,because who's gonna talk about that?
What's wrong with them?
You know, we just wanna hide itand pretend it doesn't happen.
But this is why it's so important tounderstand If someone has anxiety or
depression, it doesn't mean they're bad.
(30:48):
It doesn't mean they're broken.
It just means that they're gonnaprocess the information differently.
And so when you have someone thatis constantly on guard, they're
living in fear, they don't feel safe.
And not because anyone'sharming them, it's just what
their brain is telling them.
their sympathetic nervous systemis on overdrive all the time,
(31:08):
which is there to protect us, butwe don't need it to protect us.
But it doesn't realize that, so you'reliving pent up and all this energy.
the second somebody says something that.
could be questionable or whatever.
you react and it makes it hard, right?
and it makes it hard to alsoput yourself out there to be
vulnerable in relationships.
(31:29):
And if we're not willing and able tobe vulnerable in our relationships, you
don't really get to know the other person.
And so it's, there's just a lot of thingsthat are prevented in terms of developing
strong relationships when you're livingwith, well, what if, or, you know, for
example, like this is so many people Italk to who have experienced anxiety.
(31:52):
It's, you know, you go somewherelike out to dinner with friends or
whatever, and instead of it beinglike, oh my gosh, that was so fun,
it's, did I say anything wrong?
Are they talking about me?
what if I said that and theydidn't like what I said?
Maybe they're talkingabout me behind my back.
Maybe they didn't have fun.
And it's just this cycle of thoughts.
(32:13):
So when I say it takes action,right over anxiety, it's literally
catching those thoughts and say,Robin, you didn't say anything bad.
They love you.
They adore you.
They laughed with you, not at you.
we already set a date for a new plan.
It's like, you know, really taking thatactive intention to change how you're
(32:35):
thinking about a situation and lettingyourself know it's okay, you're safe.
So one thing, this is whatkept popping to my mind.
This will tell youwhere I'm, where I'm at.
I kept thinking about.
How some of those thingsjust never come to my mind.
And I was wondering if they do with yourhusband, have y'all talked about this?
(32:57):
No,
if y'all go out
no.
with a couple, is he sittinghere going, man, I'm hope
I'm wearing the right outfit.
Is it, does that even gothrough his mind at all?
No.
nope.
And,
Not at all.
But let me tell you something, thereare so many different types of anxiety,
(33:18):
so many different levels of anxiety.
So you can have general, ananxiety disorder, you can
have social anxiety disorder.
you know, there's alldifferent kinds of anxiety.
I was an unlucky one becauseI got multiple, but every
single person is different.
something that would bother.
Me might not ever bother my husband,but there may be things that would
(33:41):
bother him, maybe from a professionalperspective he doesn't really have
anxiety and he'll tell you that.
I think
it's, you know,
would get along famously, my wife's like,you, you never even thought about that.
You may have messed upor did something there.
I said, no, it never crossed my mind.
And, I also wonder, this is like oneother, this is me digging a little bit to
(34:05):
see if I can understand something better.
Does it cause a possible,conflict might be the right word.
If someone does come across as beingfairly let's don't use the word arrogant,
but they say things with definitivetone as if they sort of know it all.
(34:29):
You can,
Mm-hmm.
never done this, can't you?
And what does that do for someone whomight be on that end of the scale that
you're talking about that have anxiety?
To me it seems like it's probablynot helping, it's probably
irritating the situation, buttell me what your thoughts are.
Absolutely.
I mean, you're talking about somebodywho is gonna, Eva now, and I shouldn't
(34:52):
say for everyone because every singleperson is unique and every single person
handles everything differently, right.
And perceives differently.
And their nervous system may beactivated, may not be activated.
So it's, you know, this is all very,non-specific and generalized, right?
Because that's just howwe have to approach it.
(35:13):
But, someone who does havegeneralized anxiety disorder or
even social anxiety where you'rein a situation and somebody is.
You know, talks in a put off kind of way,or seems to be holier than thou, so to
speak, you know, their ego is clearlypresent and they're very prideful.
(35:37):
It can be a turnoff, it can be, yeah.
I don't feel comfortable with that person.
I feel like they're judging me or theythink they're better than me, or, you
know, it can trigger those, gosh, I couldnever be like that thoughts, So, yeah.
I think there's always an opportunityfor someone's attitude to impact someone
(35:59):
else, but I think for someone thathas a clinical diagnosis of anxiety
or is experiencing anxiety, thatit's going to make it worse for sure.
Right.
So what was yourspiritual life growing up?
Because there's a, there's ascripture you bring up here,
Philippians four, six through seven.
I think this is one of my wife's like,don't wanna say life verses, but I
(36:22):
think this is one of her foundationalverses, do not be anxious about anything.
tell me a little bit about your spiritualupbringing and then what that scripture
means to you as someone who might beanxious about things from time to time.
Yeah, well that one's on repeat, right?
and it's one that I reference alot, but, so I grew up, um, I mean
(36:47):
obviously in church, but it was, um,it was like fear and guilt driven.
If that's the right phrase.
Like, you know, you had to do thisand you had to be a good Christian
and you had to do this, or youwere going to hell and if you were
lukewarm, you were gonna be spit out.
So it wasn't until my adult years andnot all that many years ago that I really
(37:09):
developed that relationship and discoveredhow powerful the Holy Spirit is in me.
And part of that was when I waswriting my book where I was like,
how did I come up with that?
I did.
I write, I didn't write that, you know, Iwas like the Holy Spirit was right there.
So, which I know sounds kind of crazy topeople that aren't really, I don't know,
it sounds kind of crazy, but anyway, soyeah, it wasn't until I was well into
(37:33):
my adult years that I really understoodand it was just me out of necessity,
seeking that, that peace, the hope.
And really diving into, you know, studyingthe Bible, memorizing scripture, learning
like what it really was that Jesuswas asking me for, and being, letting
(37:55):
him be at the, the center of my lifeand welcoming him in for conversations
because doing it on my own wasn't working.
So, you know, it really was just learninghow to, how to have that relationship.
I always knew Jesus.
I always had faith, butit wasn't what it is now.
(38:19):
Right, it's still part of the journey.
My wife and I were justtalking this morning.
we're in our sixties now and we have.
Actually just learn some thingsfrom a spiritual standpoint.
And we've been studying andall for 30, 40 years going.
more we learn, the more we realizewe don't know stuff and we're
(38:39):
just continuing to work on things.
yeah,
I feel like you would probably admit this,we're not definitely presenting to anyone.
We've got it figured out.
No, not at all.
I wanna shift just a little bit here.
I'm trying to watch my time.
I really wanna get into somebusiness conversation, One of the
things that I have a theory about.
(38:59):
Is that since, let's go back close to10 years, we put a timestamp on this.
We we're recording thisin and go back 10 years.
I could list out some thingsthat were going on politically
here in the United States.
We can go a few years beyond that and talkabout, covid and other things like that.
I believe that there have been, if therewas some anxiousness that people have
(39:24):
had, believe that there has been somegasoline that's been poured onto that fire
our culture, society, our environment.
And I'll throw one more thingin and I'm just gonna pause
and let you talk about this.
I believe that social media hasamplified that to the nth degree.
(39:46):
And I believe that there's somepeople that probably didn't feel
as if they suffered with anxiety.
That now they realize they probably do.
All you have to do is just look at someof the political discourse and things like
Mm-hmm.
So when I bring that up, comes to mind?
(40:08):
So, so many things.
I need to take a deep breath.
Let's, let's be calm.
Let's be at peace.
Yeah.
So anytime there is change, someonewho has anxiety may be triggered.
People who may never have had anxietymay develop anxiety or anxious
(40:33):
tendencies because there are a lot ofunknowns when you think about fear,
anxiety, and fear go hand in hand.
And this is why I mentionedearlier, gratitude earlier.
A gratitude practice is so crucialbecause we cannot be anxious
and grateful at the same time.
it is absolutely imperative that we offsetsome of that anxiety looking at all of
(40:56):
the good things that we have in our life,What's happening in our society today
and social media and media in generalis amplifying mental health challenges
because people don't know who to trust.
People don't know what'sreal, what's not real.
People are spewing messages of hate,out of fear, strictly out of fear.
(41:23):
Because they don'tunderstand someone else.
They don't understand whydecisions are being made.
And so instead of trying to learnand research, they're going straight
to what they think they know abouta person or a policy or whatever,
and they immediately go into, well,everybody should be thinking like me.
(41:47):
And if they're not thinkinglike me, they're an idiot.
And so I'm gonna tell the world about it.
And, and nobody knows this, but I foundthis and I'm gonna tell everybody.
And they're these most outrageous,ridiculous things that are not factual.
They have not been validated, or they'reso slanted one way or another that it's
(42:11):
just causing all of this exaggeration.
And it really breaks my heartbecause a lot of these people
are really nice people.
And they're putting stuff outas fear tactics, and all of
that does is hurt other people.
It does not help their cause.
It does not make people see like they see.
(42:31):
And so relationships are beingpulled apart and the more people
that are anxious and fearful,the less positive and effective
decision making that's gonna happen.
The less we are gonna be able tomove forward as a country or a world.
Yeah, it's, man, there's so much there.
(42:53):
I don't see a lot of what I wouldcall woman at the well, conversation
with the woman at the well that was
No.
with love and compassion.
Mm-hmm.
And, I see a lot of vitriol and I seesome leaders in the political arena that
(43:13):
are probably speaking things in that.
Boldness might be a wordthat some people would use.
Some people might use the wordarrogance or whatever, and that's not
really even on one side or the other.
There's, you know, we, have a
Yeah.
leader in the US that ispretty strong when he speaks.
Mm-hmm.
could see how that could possibly havesome issues for people, but I think it
(43:37):
helps to have an awareness of it and.
I've shared this before, but one ofthe things that I did a little over
a year ago, right before I turned60 is that I, cut out two things.
The month before I turned 60, I decidedto have no alcohol for the month.
I don't drink that muchanyway, but I just said, you
Mm-hmm.
what it does.
then I decided to fast or get rid ofall the sources of information that
(44:02):
I had coming in news I felt like I
Mm-hmm.
my business to read certain things andread from the far left, the far right,
the middle, And what's interesting, afterthe month, I realized that alcohol was
not a big deal one way or the other.
I could take it or leave.
It didn't matter.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
By getting rid of all that information,though, it was just really amazing to me.
It was, I think, the month thatbegan, whatever they were doing in
(44:26):
Gaza and all this kind of weird stuff.
And
Mm-hmm.
I was like going, wow.
But you know what?
When I've cleared up my head from that, Ihaven't gone back or anything like that.
I've started writing more books.
I've started doing somemore creative things.
It's opened up a lot of things spiritually
Mm-hmm.
I just think we're betterand haven't missed anything.
Mm-hmm.
everything that's going on,
(44:47):
Of course, right?
Because it's everywhere.
You cannot escape it.
But here's the thing, Tim, it's reallyabout, and I have a chapter in the book
all about this, about getting aboutcuriosity, because what's happening is
people are going straight to judgmentversus getting curious to learn.
And the second we lose curiosity, thesecond we don't focus on getting to know
(45:08):
other people and valuing their opinion.
Even if it's different than our own, welose the concept of healthy relationships
Hmm.
I've got a couple other thingsabout the book, but think before I
do that, I think I'd like to ask atwhat point and how did you move from,
(45:29):
what was your doctorate in pharmacy?
Is that
pharmacy.
So how'd you move from pharmacy intocoaching, business growth and strategy?
Yeah, so that's a great question.
so when I was in pharmacy, I wasnot a traditional pharmacist.
I either worked in the clinicalsetting or I worked in corporate.
So in marketing always in marketing.
(45:51):
And so I was already a strategicperson, I was already creative.
And so those things kindof came naturally for me.
And I had built a medicalwriting and consulting business,
that was very successful.
And all through relationship marketing.
back then there wasn't SEO,there wasn't social media, it
was all relationship marketing.
(46:12):
And so I had grown that business.
Well then when my boys were.
And they were like upper middle schoolages, and my daughter was still a toddler.
Our nanny got sick and I was workingpart-time, but I was working for myself.
even if you're only working30 hours a week, that's a lot.
When your husband travels, 50% ofthe time you have no family where
(46:33):
you live and you're doing it all.
And that, so I lost my onlysource of like real help.
And then our son was showing signsand symptoms of anxiety and I was
like, my husband and I talked aboutit and we're like, this is, we can't
keep up this pace or our family'snot gonna be healthy and survive.
So he's like, you lovephotography, do something with it.
(46:54):
And I was like, what?
He goes, yeah, do somethingwith your photography.
I see you when you do it, youlight up, And it had been a
hobby my whole entire life.
And it really did ease my anxiety.
It really did help me usingthat as a creative outlet.
so I started a blog and withinsix weeks I had my first.
Paying client, which was a brandingclient, and I did all of her photography
(47:17):
for her website, her CD cover.
She was an artist, amusician and entertainer.
And that was it.
I was like, oh my gosh, I love this.
So I did that for 11 years,headshot and branding photography.
And then, towards the end of that 11years, I saw women did not know how to
build a foundation for their business.
(47:38):
They didn't know I was very strategicallycreating these images for them to use.
They didn't know what to do with it.
So then I started consulting in thatway, and then I got a certification in
branding, and became a brand specialist.
And then that just ledone thing to another.
I learned.
So much.
And I created like a mini agency type,environment where I had a website
(48:00):
designer, I had a copywriter, I had asocial media expert, I had a videographer,
and then I did the photography anddid the coaching around building
the foundation for your business.
And so, that's how Igot to where I am today.
And I, yeah, I wrote the book and when Iwrote the book, I was like, well, I've got
the podcast, the book, the photography,the, I'm like, I can't do all this.
(48:20):
So I let the photography go,sold my studio to a photographer
that had been working with me.
And yeah.
And when I wrote the book, I feltGod saying to me, I want you to do
something for moms and teen girls.
Well, you know, when he calls youto something, you should do it.
Because here I am three yearslater and I'm like, okay, so I am.
(48:44):
Working on more certifications, begetting ACC credentialed, and a lot of
things are gonna kind of pivot soon.
Ah, so we're, are we, are we goingto, is the announcement here or is
it something that you're moving in a
too calm, it's too come.
We're still mapping that out, so, yeah.
(49:05):
Yeah,
yeah.
I've built a really good thing with mybusiness and, I love what I do, so I don't
know that that's going away, but I thinkthere will be some shifts in additions.
how does the work you've done withanxiety spill over into the work
you do with business growth andstrategy, and then how does it
it's.
Does it cause any conflict at all?
(49:27):
No, I would say it does notcause any conflict whatsoever.
But what it has done is given me the giftto be able to help more people, because
a lot of women are, they're, becauseof social media and a lot innately,
are, you know, they get sucked intocomparison, imposter syndrome, doubt,
fear, and all of those negative emotions.
(49:48):
And so we have to do a lot of mindsetwork and it's, it really is, being
able to coach them through that anddiscovering, you know, okay, is this real?
Is this not real?
And how can I really access,you know, the gifts that I
have and my identity in Christ?
And so all of that becomes a veryimportant part of everything I do,
(50:08):
because people can't show up authenticallyif they don't understand themselves.
And what is making theirnervous system churn, you know?
Yeah, I actually could seeit could be a good fit.
one of the things I thought of as Iwas reading through the book, I was
just kind of going, okay, as a leader,you're a leader, over 20 people, let's
say the chances of someone that's, Iknow you wrote specifically for parents,
(50:34):
however, in my mind, I'm sitting heregoing, what can I understand about
this from being of an organization?
I thought it was helpful.
I wanna tell you the thing that I,my personality enjoyed the most as
if my personality really matters.
But what, what I
Of course it does.
I was going through and I was feelinga little bit, I don't wanna say down,
(50:59):
but you were identifying the issueswith anxiety then there was a chapter
titled Laughter and I went, oh well.
Things just changed a little bit.
The next chapter was kindness.
The next chapter is apologies.
The next chapter, I mean, you couldsee I've got 'em all turned down here.
(51:20):
The next chapter is trust.
And I'm sitting here going, okay.
She just kind of wrote faith, youknow, she just all of a sudden wrote
something that is for everyone,that we all need this type stuff.
But, there was one otherone I can't com comparison.
I think that's when I got intosocial media, so I enjoyed it.
The book is, you, me and Anxiety takeaction over Anxiety to enjoy being you.
(51:46):
And, I think it's valuable forsomeone who either is going through
it like you said, or they're a parent.
I also think it has some applicationsfor people in a leadership role.
I've got,
Mm-hmm.
organization that kind of overseeto some extent, I'm sitting here
going, what are the chances?
That there's someone in thatorganization that deals with this.
(52:07):
And I don't know exactly what I would do.
don't, I don't think I wouldsay get over it anymore.
So if, if nothing else, maybeyou've achieved and accomplished
things there, but tell, tell people.
Robin, I've got a couple other thingsand I'm gonna wrap up with something
that I think is very important from you.
Mm-hmm.
tell people how theycould connect with you.
(52:28):
Tell 'em the type people that maybeshould do this from the business growth
strategist, if you wanna send them there.
who needs to get the bookand where they could go.
I'm sure it's Amazon and all that, butjust go ahead and tell all of that.
We'll include it down in the notes.
Sure.
Absolutely Tim, thankyou for that opportunity.
The best place to find me is onmy website, the robin graham.com.
It's Robin with a y and Graham, justlike the cracker, the robin graham.com.
(52:51):
You can find the bookthere, the podcast there.
the blog there, there is just a plethoraof information as well as free resources.
And on the resource page, therobin graham.com/resources, there's
actually, a free ebook that, talksabout developing healthy habits
to be able to navigate anxiety andhave a healthy, purposeful life.
So I do encourage you, to download thatif you have experienced anxiety or if you
(53:15):
know someone who has, and as far Tim asleaders go, I just want to encourage like.
There are so many things about mentalhealth that can impact how a person
performs, what their quality of workis, what their quantity of work is, how
they interact, and with a team, how theyeither produce or bring a team down.
(53:39):
So it really is important thatwe have this conversation.
Well over 50% of people in theUnited States have anxiety, a
clinical diagnosis of anxiety thatdoesn't even include the people that
have it and have not sought help.
So chances are if you are in aleadership role, there's someone on
your team who may be experiencing thisor experiencing it with their child.
(54:02):
Yeah, that's good.
I appreciate you saying that becausethat was part of, one of the questions
I was gonna ask is speak to the leaders.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna ask, this will be my finalquestion before I wrap up, is I believe
it would be really great for you togive a word of encouragement to someone
who may have been listening in andthey've said, oh, that sounds like me.
(54:24):
just if someone's been listening in,they saw the title and it had anxiety
in the title, give them some uplifting,whatever the Holy Spirit puts on your
heart to take a minute or so and share.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the very first thing that Iwanna say is you're not alone.
There are many other people who aresuffering alongside you, and I will be
(54:45):
praying for everyone who is listening.
if you feel that this describes you andyou might have anxiety, please seek help.
There is nothing shameful whatsoeverabout having a mental health diagnosis.
So I encourage you to ask your physician,ask a friend, a neighbor, someone to
(55:07):
recommend a therapist to you, becausethe more we are aware of any mental
health challenges, the better we'regoing to be able to navigate them,
the better quality of life we're gonnahave, and the better quality of life
our family is going to have, and thedeeper our relationships will become.
And we all need each other.
(55:29):
This isn't something you do in a silo.
Thank you Robin.
Robin Graham, I appreciateyou being a guest.
I appreciate you writing the book.
You, me, and Anxiety Take ActionOver Anxiety to enjoy being you.
Grab a copy of this.
I appreciate you joiningus here on Seek Go Create.
I appreciate y'all listening in.
I think this has been animportant conversation.
take some action.
(55:49):
Don't be passive.
If you're being nudged, do something.
We have new episodes here every Monday.
We're on YouTube or onall the podcast platforms.
Keep writing comments, keep sharingall the things that you're doing.
We appreciate it greatly and we willsee you next week on Seek Go Create.
There are so many things about mentalhealth that can impact how a person
(00:05):
performs, what their quality of workis, what their quantity of work is, how
they interact, and with a team, how theyeither produce or bring a team down.
So it really is important thatwe have this conversation.
Well over 50% of people in theUnited States have anxiety, a
clinical diagnosis of anxiety thatdoesn't even include the people that
(00:28):
have it and have not sought help.
So chances are if you are in aleadership role, there's someone on
your team who may be experiencing thisor experiencing it with their child.
(00:50):
How can sharing your personal story,transform your brand, and help manage
anxiety today on seek go create.
We're joined by Dr. Robin Graham, abusiness growth strategist and author of
you, me, and Anxiety Robin specializesin integrating personal narratives into
branding, believing that authenticitynot only enhances business success,
(01:10):
but also helps in coping with anxiety.
Listen in as we discuss how embracingyour true self in your brand can lead
to not just professional triumph,also personal peace and resilience.
Welcome, welcome to Seek.
Go Create Robin.
Thank you, Tim.
That was a very lovely introduction.
I appreciate it.
Oh, thanks.
we've already kinda given thepreface that I might have a little
(01:32):
cold here, so I'm gonna ask forsome forgiveness from the audience.
But we're gonna enjoy this conversation,just finish reading your book and you
do business stuff and all, like I doin some ways, so I'm sure it's unique.
We'll talk about that.
But we really launch into all of that,why don't you answer the question
(01:54):
either what do you do or who are you?
Pick it and go ahead and answer.
All right.
That's a tough decision andprobably you're gonna get an
answer that's combined here.
so who am I?
I am a child of God.
I love Jesus.
(02:14):
And I'm a mom of three, twoadult children and one teenager.
I have two dogs.
I am an author, a speaker.
I am working on my a CC credentialsright now for solution focused and
neuro focused neuroscience coaching.
So I am a woman who has myhands in many mini pots, and
(02:38):
they're always being stirred.
You ever feel like youhave too much going on?
Yeah.
This is one of those weeks whereI feel like, I am on, emotionally
and sensory tired this week.
You know, like there's likeall of that at one time.
Usually managing Energy's areally great gift that I have, but
(02:59):
this week's been a little rough,
Well, I've already shared with you alittle bit rough for my wife and I. In
fact, one of the things that we really.
Purpose to do?
Is it when we're feeling a littlebit puny like we are right now
with some little crud, we trynot to make any big decisions.
Like we were planning sometravel and some things like that.
We say, you know what, let's don'tmake those decisions right now.
(03:21):
This is not a good time, andthat's not the way we're wired.
We just want to keep powering through,So, you know, someone would listen
and what's odd, let's go ahead and getpseudo controversial to start off with.
It's very often that men canhave this long list of stuff and
people don't think much about it.
(03:42):
But then when women do, they kind ofstart getting, it seems like you got a
lot going on Do you feel like it's a goodexample to be that, productive at times
do you wonder if maybe there are peoplethat look at you and can get intimidated?
That's the way I'll ask it.
Oh, you know, that's a reallygood question, and I think
it's a combination of the two.
(04:02):
I think it's very individual.
I don't think we can judgewhat someone else gets done
compared to what we get done.
We're, we're all two different, or twodifferent, multiple different people.
We're wired differently.
some of us are very task oriented.
Some of us are just thought.
You know, thought work is betterfor them versus the actual to-do.
(04:23):
And I know for me, I'm a bigto-do list check offerer, and I
pride myself in all that I can do.
I'm also very good about making sure I getmy sleep, I make sure I get my exercise.
Those are things people don't see.
Right.
Where we actually do nurture ourselves.
And when you emphasize the thingsthat are really important for your
(04:47):
mind, body, and soul, people don't seethat part, My devotions every morning
or my, my Bible study every morningthat sets the, the tone of what I'm
gonna be able to do during the day.
And so I, it is funny becauseI think people do look at other
people and think, gosh, they get somuch done and I get nothing done.
But it's all how we use our time andit's all how we preserve our energy.
(05:09):
Right?
Yeah.
And I, and I see, let, let's go aheadand we'll throw this into the mix.
There are a lot of people that streamingwhatever shows on Netflix, you know, and
watching all episodes there, every sport.
You know, we're recording this inMarch-ish, where there's about to be
(05:30):
a bazillion college basketball games.
And my guess is you're probably notsitting in front of television a good bit.
No,
barely have it.
no.
and what's interesting at the age we'reat, I love that you brought this up 'cause
I think this might feed into successin business and also the conversation
about anxiety and that is of rest.
(05:52):
self-care is an odd word.
I have to be careful with that.
Mm-hmm.
it's more of just knowing.
Being aware of what you can andcan't do and when you need to do
Mm-hmm.
things like that.
I think self-care may have been usedin an odd way, but, I do think it's
important for us to understand that.
I used to be one of these people,Robin, that was pretty prideful
(06:14):
and that's the right word to use,
Mm-hmm.
sleep much at night
Mm-hmm.
boasted about it, and that's the correct
Mm-hmm.
Now.
Man, I'm loving when I can getme some good rest and sleep
Mm-hmm.
refreshed.
And I'm a little bit off right nowbecause I've been waking up in the
middle of the night coughing some.
(06:34):
Mm-hmm.
a little fatigue, but I'm also tryingnot to pile on anything over the
next few days until my body says,okay, we're a little bit better.
Mm-hmm.
let's go ahead and kind of get intoa little bit of the conversation
about your book with, with anxiety,which I did read by the way.
I've got, uh, your book, you, me,and Anxiety, and I've got some
(06:56):
confessions that I'll make in justa second about it that, uh, might
make it for a fun conversation.
how important is what you justbrought up related to one item
of anxiety and that is the rest.
And taking care of yourself andknowing what you can and can't do.
It matters more than anyone can imagine.
(07:17):
you know, when we sleep, ourbody resets, our entire nervous
system resets, and we need that.
We're not meant to go, go, go, go, go.
And it, I learned at a veryyoung age, I need sleep.
Two of my sisters and my momcan go on very little sleep.
My other sister and I, we need our sleep.
(07:37):
And, you know, if we haven't gotten it,like everything about my nervous system
is off if I don't get enough rest.
And so, you know, it's, and, and Ithink there, there is this, you know,
time is finite, but energy is fluid.
We can create more energy, butit's a matter of how we care
for our mind, body, and spirit.
And so if you're one of those people thatis like an energizer bunny and can go,
(08:00):
go, go, go, that's great, but eventuallyyou're not gonna get enough time.
Your energy might run out.
So you have to ask yourself, okay, ifI have this much time, and even if you
were given 10 hours a day more, andyou had 34 hours in a day, would you be
able to do everything that you wanna do?
(08:20):
And the answer is probably no, becauseyou would run out of energy, right?
So we have to balance those things.
It's not, it's not time or energy, it'sa matter of, okay, I have this much time.
How can I manage my energy todo everything else I need to
do and have solid relationshipsin that other 16 hours?
So one thing you mentioned earlierthat you were a task person
(08:43):
list maker, check things off.
My wife is that way.
She, she does things, she willoften, this is a little bit of
a joke within our, or house.
She'll do something and if it wasn'ton the list, she'll put it on the
list so she could check it off.
That's slight exaggeration.
But if she were sitting here withme, she would say, of course.
I mean, 'cause that's how I get my
Yeah,
of accomplishment.
(09:04):
one of the things,
your wife.
yeah, you would love glory.
And when you, meet her, if you getan email from her on the bottom
it says, you have been glorified.
So anyway, one of the things that.
She and I discuss, Thisis related to sleep.
This is kind of a little bit ofa personal question about sleep.
She will lay down at night and herlist will continue to turn in her
(09:28):
head, which makes it a little bitdifficult at times to fall asleep.
Initially, I'm pretty good atlaying down and I'm out now.
I might wake up three, 4:00 AMwhatever, and then I'll start
thinking about a couple of things.
But being a task person talkingabout how important sleep is, do
those two conflict with you at all?
(09:49):
With the way I just brought that up?
So I'm very much like your wife,
Okay.
a notebook by my bed so that if I thinkof something, I can put that I don't
have my phone by my bed, but I have anotebook by my bed so that I can, if
something comes to mind as I'm fallingasleep, or if something comes to mind
(10:10):
in the middle of the night, I can putit in that notebook versus getting up.
So it helps me get back to sleep faster.
they talk about sleep hygiene and it's, Itry to follow all of that because sleep is
so important to me, but I read before I goto bed, so that quiets my nervous system
just enough that I can, I can go to sleep
(10:31):
Right.
most nights stay asleep.
So do you, do you read like anactual paper type book, or do
you read from like a Kindle?
You said you don't do your phone,which we, we've had discussions
about that and unfortunately, mywife will sometimes bring her phone
because, you know, we've got adultchildren and sometimes she thinks I've
gotta gotta be available for ' em.
(10:51):
I'm going, you know what, if there'san emergency, they need to call 9 1 1.
be around in the morning.
That's, so there's a little bitof a, that's a father versus
mother probably conversation, but,what, what are some other things?
I mean, I, I, I think this wholesleep conversation, which were,
it was not on my notes anywhere, Ithink it's vital to a lot of success.
(11:13):
Mm-hmm.
gimme some of the other things that youdo just for your sleep health, the list.
Well,
I think I'm doing a good bit, butI'd love to hear what you're doing.
well, I have my nighttime routine, right?
You know, the whole wash the va brushthe teeth, or, you know, all that stuff.
Of course, as anybody does, butit, it kind of starts where,
(11:33):
you know, I go upstairs and.
I'm done.
When I go upstairs, everybodyknows I'm done for the day.
And sometimes my, it's a jokebecause I'll say, oh, I'm
gonna go up and take a shower.
And people are, everybody is like, isshe gonna do it or is she gonna be back?
And then I'm back and then I'mback up and then I'm back down.
'cause I think of things so every,it's a joke in our house, but
(11:54):
that's just how my brain works.
'cause it's always going.
But what I do is, what I like to do ismy phone's put away at a certain time.
I don't have social media apps on myphone, so I'm not tempted to go on them.
I figure if, by seven o'clock at night,I'm done with work, nobody's emailing me.
And if they are emailing me, it'sgonna wait till the next day.
My clients know nine to fiveis when they're gonna get me.
(12:17):
So it's setting those boundaries.
My family all knows after nineo'clock, don't call, don't text,
I'm gonna be getting ready for bed.
Doesn't mean I'm in bed at that time,but I don't want to be on my device.
I don't want things triggeringadditional to-dos or whatever.
And then when I get in bed, I domy journaling, I do my prayers
(12:38):
and or a devotion and then I read.
And that's just my time to really closeout my day when I have my gratitude
practice, which I think is an absolutenecessity for me to look back on my
day and find at least three things.
Normally there's way more thanthat, that I sit and I write out.
I thank God for everythingthat happened that day.
Sometimes things weren't thatgreat, but I learned a lesson.
(13:00):
Sometimes things didn'tget done and I can say yet.
it's really putting the focuson the positive before I
close my eyes and go to sleep.
There.
There there's two or three things thatI love about what you just said there,
and I'm glad I asked the question.
One of the first things was not allowingother people's emergencies to spill over.
(13:23):
years ago, I used to be a coach inthe real estate space where people
would buy and sell properties and somepeople would pay, and they paid a lot
of money for me to be their coach.
would say, can I getyour cell phone number?
This was.
around the time smartphones were comingalong, I said, no, you don't need
my cell phone, email, or, you know,we've got a little forum and all that.
(13:43):
They go, but what if I have an emergency?
And this was my comment.
Exactly.
This is real estate.
There are no emergencies in real estate.
I'm sorry.
If there's an emergency, you call 9 1 1.
Well, what if I've gota deal or something?
It'll wait till tomorrow.
well what if I don't get it?
That's fine.
We weren't supposed to get it.
so I, I love that you brought up say,you know what, I'm shutting down.
(14:05):
I don't need any of these emergencies.
I like that.
Another thing, and this is sort ofa, can't believe we're having this
discussion about, um, showering at night.
And I'm not sure how appropriatethis is, but I used to, I
used to be like a morning.
Shower person, I've realized, and I trackmy sleep a little bit now, I do much
(14:28):
Mm-hmm.
a hot tub and or warm shower at
Mm-hmm.
sleep so much better.
Mm-hmm.
might be your rhythm, correct?
it just completely relaxes me andsets me up for a good night's sleep.
And then just everything fromthe day is gone and it's just,
I'm resetting for the next day.
(14:49):
And I think it's important to do that.
Yeah.
And you know, when you talkedabout the emergency thing too.
I mean, having had anxiety myentire life, it's like, you know,
there's always that concern.
What if something happens?
What if they can't reach me?
if something did happen to my boyswho are grown, what am I gonna do?
They don't live with me.
(15:10):
So eventually I'm gonna findout if they need our advice.
they contact us during the daytime,we usually have touchpoints, a text
or if we check in, throughout the day.
But I can't spend my entireadult life worrying about.
Somebody needing me inthe middle of the night.
If it happens, it happens, butI'm up early so there's not
(15:32):
that many hours in between.
like they're gonna miss that much.
Yeah.
10:00 PM and 5:00 AM then maybepeople shouldn't have been doing
that or something like that.
But, I,
I just know my limits and I know thatto be the person that God's calling me
to be a good mom, a good business personand do all the things I need my rest.
So it's a priority.
And I think when you talk toearlier, you asked, about the
(15:55):
book and how important is that?
Sleep is incredibly importantfor anyone who has anxiety.
we all have a choice, right?
you can have a diagnosis of anxiety.
you can feel all of these feelingsand experience all these emotions.
And you can just continue down that path,or you can choose to adjust your lifestyle
(16:16):
and adjust your habits so that they'rehealthy and it, you can navigate it so it
becomes living with anxiety or, you know,having anxiety and, and suffering through
it, to living with it, but managing it,navigating it, and loosening that rope
of control that it's had around you.
(16:36):
And it kind of feeds into somethingthat popped in my head just now,
and that is, I love the structureyou're talking about in your life.
And so my question related tothat is, did you grow up with
structure or is it something thatyou have developed over time?
(17:00):
I mean, there were four of us, somy mom was a very young, as you
know, from reading the book, a veryyoung mom and my dad worked a lot.
So there were, I would say wehad some semblance of structure.
Like, you know, dinner was atthe same time, every day we, you
know, got up at whatever time togo to school and stuff like that.
(17:21):
it wasn't a rigid structure, but probablyjust enough where my body and my.
Brain liked routine.
I've always been very habitual, veryroutine oriented, so I would say that I
had exposure to that when I was young,and then as I got older, I just knew what
(17:42):
I needed and I've always adhered to that.
Right.
And another thing I recall from readingyour story in the book there, there
were some challenging times growing up
Mm-hmm.
one of the things that I'veobserved, is that many times chaos
or disorder or some dysfunction
(18:03):
Mm-hmm.
Can impact our mental state and can impact
Mm-hmm.
anxiety and things like that.
Just is, I, I think I'lljust leave it at that.
What would you like to say about maybehow were raised or some things from your,
from your story fed into you dealingwith this and working through this?
(18:29):
Hmm, that's such a good question.
And it's, it's probably, waydeeper than the time we have here.
But what I'll say is that when you growup in a, in a dysfunctional environment,
and you know, I had very lovingparents, but there's something called
epigenetics and they will flow down.
And no matter what you're doing and whoyou think you are, these things are all
(18:51):
going to impact behaviors and choices.
And mental health was somethingthat was not discussed.
It wasn't something you got treated for.
and so all those factors tend to buildand that leads to a lack of stability.
And when you have.
a genetic predisposition to anxiety.
Those emotional instabilities or thatemotional chaos is going to lead to
(19:16):
a lot of nervous system agitation.
lack of ability to regulate yourself.
And it just leads to seekingdifferent things to try to control the
environment that you can't control.
So I would say thatdefinitely has an impact.
Absolutely, 100% has an impact on howwe behave, the choices we make, how we
(19:42):
develop in relationships, all of that.
And one of the things that I noticedin reading through the book, and this
was probably one of the reasons why Iwanted to, have a chat with you, is that
I know you work with business people.
We'll discuss that shortly 'cause I'd loveto know more about, what you do there.
But the book was somethingthat intrigued me.
(20:05):
I wonder at times if I don't haveenough compassion for people that
might have anxiety, because mostpeople that are around me would
say that I don't have any of that.
Maybe I do, maybe I don't.
But that's probably not the way I'm wired.
(20:26):
Mm-hmm.
mean, there was some things that I read inthe book and some other things like that.
I'm going, you know, I may havesaid, get over it before, which
Mm-hmm.
is actually
Mm-hmm.
what do people need to know about
if we don't that, we'vegot our own issues?
There's probably other things that wecould discuss, but if that's not something
(20:50):
we deal with, what do we need to know?
So, such a great question.
It's one of the reasonswhy I wrote the book.
But first of all, Tim, you don'tknow what you don't know, right?
in the book, I give an exampleof an incident we had with
our son and my husband had noidea how to deal with anxiety.
(21:11):
I had lived with it my entire life.
And so when we started to seethat happening with our son,
I was trying to help him.
In the way that I knew best becauseI had been in his shoes, I had
experienced what he was experiencing.
And my husband was like, just do it.
And I'm like, you can't do that to him.
(21:32):
You know?
It was this whole scene at the kitchentable and, it, it was at no fault of his.
He did not know.
And so, you know, you mayhave said, get over it.
And trust me, I have kids with anxiety.
So it's, it's very easyto want to say that.
Like, just put your boots on and let's go.
It doesn't work that way.
And that is one of the reasons Iwrote the book, was because what's
(21:55):
happening in our teen society is kidsare being bullied every single day.
They're being accused of being weird.
People don't understand them.
And when there's a lack ofunderstanding, there's judgment.
Right?
And so.
I mean to tell my story, like I havea really great life, but there were a
(22:17):
lot of hiccups along the way, right?
A lot of things I had toovercome and navigate.
So it's not that I'm special in tellingmy story when kids are struggling and
people don't understand what they'restruggling with, you can't help them.
So if I can increase the awarenessof anxiety, and now we hear a lot
more about anxiety and a lot moreabout depression and mental health
(22:38):
challenges than we ever have before.
There are a lot of people outthere who use it as an excuse.
They use it as an excuse for poorbehavior, poor choices for lashing,
lashing out at other people, fornot respecting other people, for
doing drugs or other things, right?
Making unhealthy choices.
(22:58):
Affect other people and influenceother people's lives in a negative way.
So when you say that, if you're dealingwith someone who is using it as a crutch
or an excuse to get their way or to notdo things that they need to do or to not
be a productive member of society, I cansee where that frustration and lack of
compassion would be, but only becauseI've done the work I've done, and when
(23:23):
we talk about navigating anxiety, it iswork just like changing your mindset.
Just like you know anything elsethat you want to accomplish that's
gonna be meaningful in your life.
It's work, it's action.
It's doing something to move throughit, to push yourself forward.
It takes action to succeedno matter what it is.
(23:46):
And it's no different with mental health.
Now, when I sat down to write thebook, I. wanted other teens to
recognize this kid may be peculiar.
You may not understand them, but givethem the grace to get curious and try
to get to know them because underneaththese strange behaviors or this inability
(24:08):
to talk to someone at school or this,you know, need to kind of hide in a
corner, that doesn't mean they're weird.
It doesn't mean they don't have feelings.
It doesn't mean that they'reincapable of having a relationship.
It means that they're wireda little bit differently.
So instead of judging them and shunningthem or bullying them, get curious.
(24:30):
And sometimes all it takes is asmile to change the course of a
child or a teen or adult's life.
They could be wanting to end theirlife that day and someone just
showing they care can completely turnthat around and change the outcome.
at what age, you become aware, or, youmentioned you've done a lot of work.
(24:54):
Did you start doing workor get help or whatever?
What was your age when that occurred?
So the first time I got helpwas in college, and that was
around an eating disorder.
and then that was kind of, I thinkthe only way I survived was because
my mother and grandmother prayedall the time and my dad, but, I
(25:16):
never had true help, like reallydedicated help until I was an adult.
I got the help I needed as we wereseeking the help my son needed.
So, way too long, way too long.
Hmm.
I was in the medicalprofession I should have known.
I knew everything, but it wasn't untilI was in my twenties that I actually
(25:37):
had that, first experience with therapyand understanding more about myself
and my emotions I learned a lot.
I tried to navigate it all on my own.
But that official help I got wasn'tuntil I was in my, I don't even know
how old I was, but I was an adult.
Later.
It was later.
It was
It was later.
(25:58):
It was too later.
we'll say a few years later.
was too later.
the interim, would yousay you were managing it?
Were you, as Tim saidearlier, dealing with it?
Were you ignoring it?
how would you
'cause to me, it seems like that'sprobably where a lot of people are.
I would say that I was managing it
Hmm.
of the time.
(26:19):
Hmm.
not all of the time.
And it's those times when I wasn'tmanaging it that I really wish I had
been, because, you know, losing my mind,so to speak, and getting irritated and
angry over stupid things was not cool.
And, you know, I could havehurt relationships doing that.
(26:39):
Now, fortunately, I was relativelyaware, relatively in control, but there
are a lot of times where I could havehad better conversations or I could
have handled a situation differently.
I have missed out on a lot in my lifebecause I was too afraid to step into it
too, focused on the what ifs versus thiscould be great if I just gave it a chance.
(27:03):
So I would say, to anyone who thinksthat there may be something off.
It is 1000% worth just seeing atherapist talking to your doctor,
ask questions, read the book,just to understand what happens.
(27:25):
Because what happens a lot of times ispeople live with certain symptoms for
their entire life and they're like,I don't know why I'm the way I am.
I hate the way I am.
This is so stupid.
And they develop guilt and shame andall these things when the reality is
there, it's a chemical imbalance in thebrain, or there's a neural pathway that
just keeps firing in a negative way.
(27:45):
like a Ferris wheel.
you have the Ferris wheel andit's going round and round and
round, and it slows down to letpeople off and let new people on.
Our brain gets so in these tracks ofthis, this spinning cycle that it just
keeps going faster and faster and faster.
So there's no time to letthe negative thoughts off and
positive thoughts come in.
And that's where we have to startto recognize, okay, this is not.
(28:11):
I'm gonna use air quotes for normal, foranyone who's not watching but listening.
you know, and recognizing that and thenactually doing the work to say, okay,
nobody else is thinking this way about me.
Nobody else is thinking thisway about this situation.
It's probably not as badas what I'm thinking it is.
So how can I change that thoughtor really be in tune to my body and
(28:37):
what's happening, what I'm feeling andwhat's building up as these thoughts
are occurring and where can I takea step back and try to rewire those
neural pathways in my brain, reroutethem to be able to navigate that?
Right.
you mentioned earlier, you said somethingabout your husband and there was a,
(28:58):
that I have, I've got your book here.
I'm on page 70 This is, said, having andmaintaining relationships might be the
most challenging part for people anxiety.
I'm guessing from the way you'vetalked and, you know, have children
and all that, that, you and John haveprobably like most couples, gone through
(29:19):
stuff, but yet, still here you are.
Tell me more about the challengewith relationships and anxiety.
Sure.
So when a person has anxiety,oftentimes they don't trust.
So if they don't trust, that can be,and I've always trusted my husband.
That hasn't been necessarily likea bad thing in our relationship.
However, that lack of trustleads to hypersensitivity, a
(29:42):
lack of confidence in self.
So you become hypersensitiveright to wait.
Did they?
Say that, well, what does that mean?
And instead of asking you react,right, so it's not just absorbing,
it's not just considering.
It's, a lot of times it's reactionary,or accusatory, things like that.
(30:03):
I mean, fortunately my husband's beenpretty great, so I don't have a lot of
complaints there, but there have beentimes where it's like, no, like, you
know, I just have to say like, you can'tsay that to me, like that, that doesn't
sit well with me because of X, Y, Z.
So I've had to explain, and for yearsI didn't explain, and for years we
just kind of went through the motions.
(30:25):
But when I wrote my book and he readmy book, he was like, I had no idea.
Like, he had no idea about any of that,because who's gonna talk about that?
What's wrong with them?
You know, we just wanna hide itand pretend it doesn't happen.
But this is why it's so important tounderstand If someone has anxiety or
depression, it doesn't mean they're bad.
(30:48):
It doesn't mean they're broken.
It just means that they're gonnaprocess the information differently.
And so when you have someone thatis constantly on guard, they're
living in fear, they don't feel safe.
And not because anyone'sharming them, it's just what
their brain is telling them.
their sympathetic nervous systemis on overdrive all the time,
(31:08):
which is there to protect us, butwe don't need it to protect us.
But it doesn't realize that, so you'reliving pent up and all this energy.
the second somebody says something that.
could be questionable or whatever.
you react and it makes it hard, right?
and it makes it hard to alsoput yourself out there to be
vulnerable in relationships.
(31:29):
And if we're not willing and able tobe vulnerable in our relationships, you
don't really get to know the other person.
And so it's, there's just a lot of thingsthat are prevented in terms of developing
strong relationships when you're livingwith, well, what if, or, you know, for
example, like this is so many people Italk to who have experienced anxiety.
(31:52):
It's, you know, you go somewherelike out to dinner with friends or
whatever, and instead of it beinglike, oh my gosh, that was so fun,
it's, did I say anything wrong?
Are they talking about me?
what if I said that and theydidn't like what I said?
Maybe they're talkingabout me behind my back.
Maybe they didn't have fun.
And it's just this cycle of thoughts.
(32:13):
So when I say it takes action,right over anxiety, it's literally
catching those thoughts and say,Robin, you didn't say anything bad.
They love you.
They adore you.
They laughed with you, not at you.
we already set a date for a new plan.
It's like, you know, really taking thatactive intention to change how you're
(32:35):
thinking about a situation and lettingyourself know it's okay, you're safe.
So one thing, this is whatkept popping to my mind.
This will tell youwhere I'm, where I'm at.
I kept thinking about.
How some of those thingsjust never come to my mind.
And I was wondering if they do with yourhusband, have y'all talked about this?
(32:57):
No,
if y'all go out
no.
with a couple, is he sittinghere going, man, I'm hope
I'm wearing the right outfit.
Is it, does that even gothrough his mind at all?
No.
nope.
And,
Not at all.
But let me tell you something, thereare so many different types of anxiety,
(33:18):
so many different levels of anxiety.
So you can have general, ananxiety disorder, you can
have social anxiety disorder.
you know, there's alldifferent kinds of anxiety.
I was an unlucky one becauseI got multiple, but every
single person is different.
something that would bother.
Me might not ever bother my husband,but there may be things that would
(33:41):
bother him, maybe from a professionalperspective he doesn't really have
anxiety and he'll tell you that.
I think
it's, you know,
would get along famously, my wife's like,you, you never even thought about that.
You may have messed upor did something there.
I said, no, it never crossed my mind.
And, I also wonder, this is like oneother, this is me digging a little bit to
(34:05):
see if I can understand something better.
Does it cause a possible,conflict might be the right word.
If someone does come across as beingfairly let's don't use the word arrogant,
but they say things with definitivetone as if they sort of know it all.
(34:29):
You can,
Mm-hmm.
never done this, can't you?
And what does that do for someone whomight be on that end of the scale that
you're talking about that have anxiety?
To me it seems like it's probablynot helping, it's probably
irritating the situation, buttell me what your thoughts are.
Absolutely.
I mean, you're talking about somebodywho is gonna, Eva now, and I shouldn't
(34:52):
say for everyone because every singleperson is unique and every single person
handles everything differently, right.
And perceives differently.
And their nervous system may beactivated, may not be activated.
So it's, you know, this is all very,non-specific and generalized, right?
Because that's just howwe have to approach it.
(35:13):
But, someone who does havegeneralized anxiety disorder or
even social anxiety where you'rein a situation and somebody is.
You know, talks in a put off kind of way,or seems to be holier than thou, so to
speak, you know, their ego is clearlypresent and they're very prideful.
(35:37):
It can be a turnoff, it can be, yeah.
I don't feel comfortable with that person.
I feel like they're judging me or theythink they're better than me, or, you
know, it can trigger those, gosh, I couldnever be like that thoughts, So, yeah.
I think there's always an opportunityfor someone's attitude to impact someone
(35:59):
else, but I think for someone thathas a clinical diagnosis of anxiety
or is experiencing anxiety, thatit's going to make it worse for sure.
Right.
So what was yourspiritual life growing up?
Because there's a, there's ascripture you bring up here,
Philippians four, six through seven.
I think this is one of my wife's like,don't wanna say life verses, but I
(36:22):
think this is one of her foundationalverses, do not be anxious about anything.
tell me a little bit about your spiritualupbringing and then what that scripture
means to you as someone who might beanxious about things from time to time.
Yeah, well that one's on repeat, right?
and it's one that I reference alot, but, so I grew up, um, I mean
(36:47):
obviously in church, but it was, um,it was like fear and guilt driven.
If that's the right phrase.
Like, you know, you had to do thisand you had to be a good Christian
and you had to do this, or youwere going to hell and if you were
lukewarm, you were gonna be spit out.
So it wasn't until my adult years andnot all that many years ago that I really
(37:09):
developed that relationship and discoveredhow powerful the Holy Spirit is in me.
And part of that was when I waswriting my book where I was like,
how did I come up with that?
I did.
I write, I didn't write that, you know, Iwas like the Holy Spirit was right there.
So, which I know sounds kind of crazy topeople that aren't really, I don't know,
it sounds kind of crazy, but anyway, soyeah, it wasn't until I was well into
(37:33):
my adult years that I really understoodand it was just me out of necessity,
seeking that, that peace, the hope.
And really diving into, you know, studyingthe Bible, memorizing scripture, learning
like what it really was that Jesuswas asking me for, and being, letting
(37:55):
him be at the, the center of my lifeand welcoming him in for conversations
because doing it on my own wasn't working.
So, you know, it really was just learninghow to, how to have that relationship.
I always knew Jesus.
I always had faith, butit wasn't what it is now.
(38:19):
Right, it's still part of the journey.
My wife and I were justtalking this morning.
we're in our sixties now and we have.
Actually just learn some thingsfrom a spiritual standpoint.
And we've been studying andall for 30, 40 years going.
more we learn, the more we realizewe don't know stuff and we're
(38:39):
just continuing to work on things.
yeah,
I feel like you would probably admit this,we're not definitely presenting to anyone.
We've got it figured out.
No, not at all.
I wanna shift just a little bit here.
I'm trying to watch my time.
I really wanna get into somebusiness conversation, One of the
things that I have a theory about.
(38:59):
Is that since, let's go back close to10 years, we put a timestamp on this.
We we're recording thisin and go back 10 years.
I could list out some thingsthat were going on politically
here in the United States.
We can go a few years beyond that and talkabout, covid and other things like that.
I believe that there have been, if therewas some anxiousness that people have
(39:24):
had, believe that there has been somegasoline that's been poured onto that fire
our culture, society, our environment.
And I'll throw one more thingin and I'm just gonna pause
and let you talk about this.
I believe that social media hasamplified that to the nth degree.
(39:46):
And I believe that there's somepeople that probably didn't feel
as if they suffered with anxiety.
That now they realize they probably do.
All you have to do is just look at someof the political discourse and things like
Mm-hmm.
So when I bring that up, comes to mind?
(40:08):
So, so many things.
I need to take a deep breath.
Let's, let's be calm.
Let's be at peace.
Yeah.
So anytime there is change, someonewho has anxiety may be triggered.
People who may never have had anxietymay develop anxiety or anxious
(40:33):
tendencies because there are a lot ofunknowns when you think about fear,
anxiety, and fear go hand in hand.
And this is why I mentionedearlier, gratitude earlier.
A gratitude practice is so crucialbecause we cannot be anxious
and grateful at the same time.
it is absolutely imperative that we offsetsome of that anxiety looking at all of
(40:56):
the good things that we have in our life,What's happening in our society today
and social media and media in generalis amplifying mental health challenges
because people don't know who to trust.
People don't know what'sreal, what's not real.
People are spewing messages of hate,out of fear, strictly out of fear.
(41:23):
Because they don'tunderstand someone else.
They don't understand whydecisions are being made.
And so instead of trying to learnand research, they're going straight
to what they think they know abouta person or a policy or whatever,
and they immediately go into, well,everybody should be thinking like me.
(41:47):
And if they're not thinkinglike me, they're an idiot.
And so I'm gonna tell the world about it.
And, and nobody knows this, but I foundthis and I'm gonna tell everybody.
And they're these most outrageous,ridiculous things that are not factual.
They have not been validated, or they'reso slanted one way or another that it's
(42:11):
just causing all of this exaggeration.
And it really breaks my heartbecause a lot of these people
are really nice people.
And they're putting stuff outas fear tactics, and all of
that does is hurt other people.
It does not help their cause.
It does not make people see like they see.
(42:31):
And so relationships are beingpulled apart and the more people
that are anxious and fearful,the less positive and effective
decision making that's gonna happen.
The less we are gonna be able tomove forward as a country or a world.
Yeah, it's, man, there's so much there.
(42:53):
I don't see a lot of what I wouldcall woman at the well, conversation
with the woman at the well that was
No.
with love and compassion.
Mm-hmm.
And, I see a lot of vitriol and I seesome leaders in the political arena that
(43:13):
are probably speaking things in that.
Boldness might be a wordthat some people would use.
Some people might use the wordarrogance or whatever, and that's not
really even on one side or the other.
There's, you know, we, have a
Yeah.
leader in the US that ispretty strong when he speaks.
Mm-hmm.
could see how that could possibly havesome issues for people, but I think it
(43:37):
helps to have an awareness of it and.
I've shared this before, but one ofthe things that I did a little over
a year ago, right before I turned60 is that I, cut out two things.
The month before I turned 60, I decidedto have no alcohol for the month.
I don't drink that muchanyway, but I just said, you
Mm-hmm.
what it does.
then I decided to fast or get rid ofall the sources of information that
(44:02):
I had coming in news I felt like I
Mm-hmm.
my business to read certain things andread from the far left, the far right,
the middle, And what's interesting, afterthe month, I realized that alcohol was
not a big deal one way or the other.
I could take it or leave.
It didn't matter.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
By getting rid of all that information,though, it was just really amazing to me.
It was, I think, the month thatbegan, whatever they were doing in
(44:26):
Gaza and all this kind of weird stuff.
And
Mm-hmm.
I was like going, wow.
But you know what?
When I've cleared up my head from that, Ihaven't gone back or anything like that.
I've started writing more books.
I've started doing somemore creative things.
It's opened up a lot of things spiritually
Mm-hmm.
I just think we're betterand haven't missed anything.
Mm-hmm.
everything that's going on,
(44:47):
Of course, right?
Because it's everywhere.
You cannot escape it.
But here's the thing, Tim, it's reallyabout, and I have a chapter in the book
all about this, about getting aboutcuriosity, because what's happening is
people are going straight to judgmentversus getting curious to learn.
And the second we lose curiosity, thesecond we don't focus on getting to know
(45:08):
other people and valuing their opinion.
Even if it's different than our own, welose the concept of healthy relationships
Hmm.
I've got a couple other thingsabout the book, but think before I
do that, I think I'd like to ask atwhat point and how did you move from,
(45:29):
what was your doctorate in pharmacy?
Is that
pharmacy.
So how'd you move from pharmacy intocoaching, business growth and strategy?
Yeah, so that's a great question.
so when I was in pharmacy, I wasnot a traditional pharmacist.
I either worked in the clinicalsetting or I worked in corporate.
So in marketing always in marketing.
(45:51):
And so I was already a strategicperson, I was already creative.
And so those things kindof came naturally for me.
And I had built a medicalwriting and consulting business,
that was very successful.
And all through relationship marketing.
back then there wasn't SEO,there wasn't social media, it
was all relationship marketing.
(46:12):
And so I had grown that business.
Well then when my boys were.
And they were like upper middle schoolages, and my daughter was still a toddler.
Our nanny got sick and I was workingpart-time, but I was working for myself.
even if you're only working30 hours a week, that's a lot.
When your husband travels, 50% ofthe time you have no family where
(46:33):
you live and you're doing it all.
And that, so I lost my onlysource of like real help.
And then our son was showing signsand symptoms of anxiety and I was
like, my husband and I talked aboutit and we're like, this is, we can't
keep up this pace or our family'snot gonna be healthy and survive.
So he's like, you lovephotography, do something with it.
(46:54):
And I was like, what?
He goes, yeah, do somethingwith your photography.
I see you when you do it, youlight up, And it had been a
hobby my whole entire life.
And it really did ease my anxiety.
It really did help me usingthat as a creative outlet.
so I started a blog and withinsix weeks I had my first.
Paying client, which was a brandingclient, and I did all of her photography
(47:17):
for her website, her CD cover.
She was an artist, amusician and entertainer.
And that was it.
I was like, oh my gosh, I love this.
So I did that for 11 years,headshot and branding photography.
And then, towards the end of that 11years, I saw women did not know how to
build a foundation for their business.
(47:38):
They didn't know I was very strategicallycreating these images for them to use.
They didn't know what to do with it.
So then I started consulting in thatway, and then I got a certification in
branding, and became a brand specialist.
And then that just ledone thing to another.
I learned.
So much.
And I created like a mini agency type,environment where I had a website
(48:00):
designer, I had a copywriter, I had asocial media expert, I had a videographer,
and then I did the photography anddid the coaching around building
the foundation for your business.
And so, that's how Igot to where I am today.
And I, yeah, I wrote the book and when Iwrote the book, I was like, well, I've got
the podcast, the book, the photography,the, I'm like, I can't do all this.
(48:20):
So I let the photography go,sold my studio to a photographer
that had been working with me.
And yeah.
And when I wrote the book, I feltGod saying to me, I want you to do
something for moms and teen girls.
Well, you know, when he calls youto something, you should do it.
Because here I am three yearslater and I'm like, okay, so I am.
(48:44):
Working on more certifications, begetting ACC credentialed, and a lot of
things are gonna kind of pivot soon.
Ah, so we're, are we, are we goingto, is the announcement here or is
it something that you're moving in a
too calm, it's too come.
We're still mapping that out, so, yeah.
(49:05):
Yeah,
yeah.
I've built a really good thing with mybusiness and, I love what I do, so I don't
know that that's going away, but I thinkthere will be some shifts in additions.
how does the work you've done withanxiety spill over into the work
you do with business growth andstrategy, and then how does it
it's.
Does it cause any conflict at all?
(49:27):
No, I would say it does notcause any conflict whatsoever.
But what it has done is given me the giftto be able to help more people, because
a lot of women are, they're, becauseof social media and a lot innately,
are, you know, they get sucked intocomparison, imposter syndrome, doubt,
fear, and all of those negative emotions.
(49:48):
And so we have to do a lot of mindsetwork and it's, it really is, being
able to coach them through that anddiscovering, you know, okay, is this real?
Is this not real?
And how can I really access,you know, the gifts that I
have and my identity in Christ?
And so all of that becomes a veryimportant part of everything I do,
(50:08):
because people can't show up authenticallyif they don't understand themselves.
And what is making theirnervous system churn, you know?
Yeah, I actually could seeit could be a good fit.
one of the things I thought of as Iwas reading through the book, I was
just kind of going, okay, as a leader,you're a leader, over 20 people, let's
say the chances of someone that's, Iknow you wrote specifically for parents,
(50:34):
however, in my mind, I'm sitting heregoing, what can I understand about
this from being of an organization?
I thought it was helpful.
I wanna tell you the thing that I,my personality enjoyed the most as
if my personality really matters.
But what, what I
Of course it does.
I was going through and I was feelinga little bit, I don't wanna say down,
(50:59):
but you were identifying the issueswith anxiety then there was a chapter
titled Laughter and I went, oh well.
Things just changed a little bit.
The next chapter was kindness.
The next chapter is apologies.
The next chapter, I mean, you couldsee I've got 'em all turned down here.
(51:20):
The next chapter is trust.
And I'm sitting here going, okay.
She just kind of wrote faith, youknow, she just all of a sudden wrote
something that is for everyone,that we all need this type stuff.
But, there was one otherone I can't com comparison.
I think that's when I got intosocial media, so I enjoyed it.
The book is, you, me and Anxiety takeaction over Anxiety to enjoy being you.
(51:46):
And, I think it's valuable forsomeone who either is going through
it like you said, or they're a parent.
I also think it has some applicationsfor people in a leadership role.
I've got,
Mm-hmm.
organization that kind of overseeto some extent, I'm sitting here
going, what are the chances?
That there's someone in thatorganization that deals with this.
(52:07):
And I don't know exactly what I would do.
don't, I don't think I wouldsay get over it anymore.
So if, if nothing else, maybeyou've achieved and accomplished
things there, but tell, tell people.
Robin, I've got a couple other thingsand I'm gonna wrap up with something
that I think is very important from you.
Mm-hmm.
tell people how theycould connect with you.
(52:28):
Tell 'em the type people that maybeshould do this from the business growth
strategist, if you wanna send them there.
who needs to get the bookand where they could go.
I'm sure it's Amazon and all that, butjust go ahead and tell all of that.
We'll include it down in the notes.
Sure.
Absolutely Tim, thankyou for that opportunity.
The best place to find me is onmy website, the robin graham.com.
It's Robin with a y and Graham, justlike the cracker, the robin graham.com.
(52:51):
You can find the bookthere, the podcast there.
the blog there, there is just a plethoraof information as well as free resources.
And on the resource page, therobin graham.com/resources, there's
actually, a free ebook that, talksabout developing healthy habits
to be able to navigate anxiety andhave a healthy, purposeful life.
So I do encourage you, to download thatif you have experienced anxiety or if you
(53:15):
know someone who has, and as far Tim asleaders go, I just want to encourage like.
There are so many things about mentalhealth that can impact how a person
performs, what their quality of workis, what their quantity of work is, how
they interact, and with a team, how theyeither produce or bring a team down.
(53:39):
So it really is important thatwe have this conversation.
Well over 50% of people in theUnited States have anxiety, a
clinical diagnosis of anxiety thatdoesn't even include the people that
have it and have not sought help.
So chances are if you are in aleadership role, there's someone on
your team who may be experiencing thisor experiencing it with their child.
(54:02):
Yeah, that's good.
I appreciate you saying that becausethat was part of, one of the questions
I was gonna ask is speak to the leaders.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna ask, this will be my finalquestion before I wrap up, is I believe
it would be really great for you togive a word of encouragement to someone
who may have been listening in andthey've said, oh, that sounds like me.
(54:24):
just if someone's been listening in,they saw the title and it had anxiety
in the title, give them some uplifting,whatever the Holy Spirit puts on your
heart to take a minute or so and share.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the very first thing that Iwanna say is you're not alone.
There are many other people who aresuffering alongside you, and I will be
(54:45):
praying for everyone who is listening.
if you feel that this describes you andyou might have anxiety, please seek help.
There is nothing shameful whatsoeverabout having a mental health diagnosis.
So I encourage you to ask your physician,ask a friend, a neighbor, someone to
(55:07):
recommend a therapist to you, becausethe more we are aware of any mental
health challenges, the better we'regoing to be able to navigate them,
the better quality of life we're gonnahave, and the better quality of life
our family is going to have, and thedeeper our relationships will become.
And we all need each other.
(55:29):
This isn't something you do in a silo.
Thank you Robin.
Robin Graham, I appreciateyou being a guest.
I appreciate you writing the book.
You, me, and Anxiety Take ActionOver Anxiety to enjoy being you.
Grab a copy of this.
I appreciate you joiningus here on Seek Go Create.
I appreciate y'all listening in.
I think this has been animportant conversation.
take some action.
(55:49):
Don't be passive.
If you're being nudged, do something.
We have new episodes here every Monday.
We're on YouTube or onall the podcast platforms.
Keep writing comments, keep sharingall the things that you're doing.
We appreciate it greatly and we willsee you next week on Seek Go Create.
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