Mental Toughness and Leading with Vision: Dr. Dave Jones Unpacks Vision-Driven Leadership

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So when you're planning to win, right?

(00:02):
if you don't have a plan,you're planning to lose.
So it doesn't mean the plan isstuck for the next five years.
It means that you're thinkingabout it before it happens.
So when we plan to win, we arementally, emotionally, physically,
spiritually aware, or planningfor what we wanna do next.
When you start writing stuffdown and you start thinking about

(00:23):
things, it just speaks to you.
What does it take to lead with visionin a world that's driven by distraction?
Today's guest, Dr. Dave Jones, hasgone from professional hockey rinks in

(00:46):
Europe to the boardrooms of thrivingbusinesses where he now coaches elite
athletes, executives, and ministryleaders on how to win the mental game.
He's the founder of M Is Good, amarketing agency powered by Kingdom
Purpose, and the creator of the Rseven Vision Framework, a powerful
model for leaders who want to aligntheir mission with the eternal impact.

(01:10):
He's also the author of Vision Winsand the host of the R seven podcast.
In this episode, we're gonna explorewhat it means to lead with purpose, why
vision is more than a buzzword, and howspiritual and mental disciplines are
essential for high level leadership.
Dr. Dave Jones, welcome to Seat Go Create.

(01:33):
Oh man.
I'm so honored to be here.
Tim.
Thank you for having me.
glad you're here too.
Let's get like one littlething outta the way.
We were about to talk about this, butyou've got doctor in front of your name,
but you're wearing an a superman hat.
For those that are watching uson video, some stuff that said
Super Dave, which is fascinating.
I see Doctor, I see Dave and David.

(01:55):
It's like, man, what,what do you go by man?
What do people call you?
Yeah, such a great question.
I, in high school I grew up as Wonder Dave'cause I played hockey and I played pretty
good at it and that kind of fell off.
And then, you know, I have this reallycool name, Dave Jones, which is the second
most popular name in the world, probably.
and so everywhere I go it's, youknow, Dave Jones, who, you know,

(02:16):
like, which Dave Jones are you?
you?
and then I hit the CrossFit world whenI was 40, and I did pretty good at that.
And so it became Super Dave.
And then, you know, I've beenin rinks and a lot of rinks
and coaching a lot of differentplayers, you know, hockey players.
And, you know, I go in the rinkand it's super Dave, you know,
and so my kids call me Super Dave.
It's kind of fun to Hey, soup, what's up?

(02:38):
know,
You know.
So,
it just kind of stuck.
And then I've been chasing thisjourney for my doctorate in sport and
performance psychology for 13 years.
And on December 6th, 2024, I, defended mydissertation and now it became Dr. Dave.
Dave.
So a lot of my friends around me arelike, there's no way I'm calling you Dr.
Super Dave.

(02:58):
Like, that's not gonna happen, you know?
So it's Super Dave, it'sDave, it's Dr. Dave.
You know, it's fun man.
Like we're having a good time with it.
I think Dr. Super could bekinda like a Marvel type,
Yeah, for sure.
like
Yeah.
Hopefully not a villain.
Hopefully a good guy.
Yeah.
You know, it's interesting.
I think you remember back when itwas actually, super Dave and Super

(03:19):
Dave was not like a Marvel hero.
He was kind of a goofball, like
Like
it was the worst productionever and everybody loved it.
it.
So that's more about me, you know,having fun and like, you know, messing
things up, but still goofing on it.
So, you know, unfortunately there'sno Super Dave Apparel out there, so I
just, I just buy the Superman stuff and
Super
call it Super Dave, so.
so this is like idle banter thatsomebody's gonna go, Hey, could

(03:43):
y'all get to the vision stuff?
But it's kind of funny, when youfirst came across our desk, this will
kind of tell you where my mind is.
Okay.
Super Dave initially, which I would'vegone directly to Super Dave Osborne.
For those that even don't know what we'retalking about, kind of an older reference,
but actually thought your name said Davey.

(04:03):
Oh,
Jones, man.
Wasn't that the lead singer, the monkeys?
It's
that's it.
how old I am.
There's
right.
what the heck is that guy talking about?
But it's like, man, I would love that.
That would be so cool.
But, uh, anyway, I, you, you are the manand the one I need to be speaking with.
So I've got Dr. Dave Jones here.

(04:25):
I think I might go by Dave, unlessyou correct me as we go along
That works.
you say something, I might eitherlean towards a doctor or super just
to emphasize what we said there.
But,
Yeah.
hey, first question I like tostart with sort of related to that,
Mm-hmm.
different.
And that is, would you prefer toanswer the question, what do you do?

(04:48):
Or who are you?
Hmm.
start answering.
Yeah, I think I'm gonnago with Who are you?
Because I feel like, yeah.
So who are you?
You know, I think that, when we havethis common language that we use and,
you know, you meet somebody for thefirst time and they say, what do you do?

(05:09):
do?
You know, it's kind of a questionof, you know, how do you make money?
And I feel like it's a very misleadingquestion, and this probably drives a
lot of identity crisis in the world,this common language that we use.
And so because I've worked with somany athletes and former Christian
organizational leaders and current,you know, in this transition

(05:31):
period, identity's a big deal.
And so when you have performancerelated questions that really over
time build up that you actuallythink you are, you know what you do.
and the reality is, you know, we, wehave problems with, I like to call

(05:51):
our flap our fear, lust, anger, pride.
And so when your identity's
your
in your fear, lust, anger, pride,it's how many cars do you have?
I'm president, I'm vice president, I'm ahockey player, I'm not a hockey player.
a hire.
Whereas when you identity is in Christand it's not performance related.
Who are you becomes a, a funnerquestion because, you know, I am a

(06:12):
man of God, the best of my ability.
I'm not perfect.
So let's, let's be clear about that.
that.
know, I'm a business owner,I'm a husband, I'm a dad.
I'm a coach.
this goes back to vision.
who you are is not what you do.
and so who I am, I unifyexcellence in the marketplace.
That's my vision.
those that have heard me talk in the past,they've heard my vision over the years.

(06:36):
when you point to vision, ittakes away the identity side
of what you're currently doing.
We live off of peaksand valleys in our life.
Nobody's awesome all the time.
time.
And so in the valley, I believe iswhere the Lord wants you to glorify him.
him.
And so if our bank accounthas one comment in it.
it

(06:56):
We're feeling bad about ourselves.
It's really hard, right?
To glorify the Lord.
If our bank account has twocommas or three commas in it,
in it,
you know, we feel reallygood and we're unstoppable.
But the reality is your identity is inyour pride, not in glorifying the Lord.
the Lord.
Now, that was really heavy, really fast.

(07:17):
about that.
No, I like it.
I made two or three notes herethat we're gonna kinda keep going
heavy because this is important.
See, I think what we're doing iswe're just, I always say we're diving
into the deep end of the pool, butwe're going to some core stuff.
away.
And we're gonna get to in a little while.
I've gotten through a good portion ofyour book, vision Wins, seven Strategies

(07:38):
for Mental Toughness in Life, in Sports.
And I wanna tell you, Dave,that I don't hear the word
mental toughness much anymore.
And that, so we're gonna talkabout that in just a second.
but, so mental toughness is a topicI wanna talk about how it relates to
vision and mission and things like that,especially within the R seven framework.

(07:58):
But you brought up somethingto me that is at times a word,
that's what I call christianese.
it's language that we use in theor followers of Jesus world that
maybe someone who's not in thatworld doesn't know what we mean.
And you mention that you arewho you are, your identity is in

(08:23):
and.
I believe that I know whatthat is 'cause I've been living
that life for a while and I
Yeah.
truthfully I went to Bible schoolfor a couple years, I don't think a
lot of people know what that means.
Mm-hmm.
I think one of the first things I'm gonnado, and this is again, more deep question,
Mm-hmm.
why don't you explain in your words,
Let's start with what It's not right?

(08:44):
It's not your bank account,it's not your cars.
It's not, forgive me, but how hot yourwife is, or how skinny your wife is,
know,
how long you've been married.
You know, like these are kind of theworldly triggers with living in a, living
a life of Christ to me, but it means thatyou're, you're a follower of Jesus, that

(09:07):
you're reading the Bible, that you'repraying daily, that you're trying to
do what's right by the word of God, notwhat's right by whatever the wind is
blowing in today's political or, you know,or in sporting environment, you know, and
so it's, it's doing your best that youcan to live a life according to Christ.

(09:29):
That's what that means.
So I follow the Bible.
I'm very open about, I am a right wingBible toting, gun carrying Christian,
and I glorify the Lord in everythingI do, whether it's, you know, and some
days are, I would say that some days are
days are
better than others, honestly.
But I'm always going back towhat do the scripture say?

(09:51):
How do I react to this?
I think, you know, having thefruits of the spirit are important,
you know, as kind of a checklist.
So, love, peace, patience, self-control,you know, this is what it means to, for
according to the way I see the world,which is not always right all the time,
but, you know, it's following Jesus.

(10:12):
Yeah.
Have you always been that way?
I have not been all this way.
I, I didn't, I grew up,
up,
I grew up playing hockey.
I won a state championship earlyon in my high school career.
I got really drunk.
my brother who was going toMoody Bible Institute was, came
home the next day after my,
my,
you know,
know,
after I was trying to recuperate.

(10:34):
And I was just,
just,
you know,
know,
on the bed and just out for the day.
And my brother came and said, Hey,do you wanna live a life like this?
And I'm like, no.
And he's like, do you want to seeJesus as your Lord and Savior?
I'm like, yes.
I want something more than this.
I was 16 when that happened.
I went on to play juniors in pro inEurope, and it wasn't until probably
my second or third year in Europewhere I was like, you know what?

(10:55):
I was 22.
I,
I,
I had met a woman that, you know, that
that.
we basically, who's my wife nowof 25 years, said, you know what?
Let's do a better job of livinga life of Christ and try to
follow him and read and pray.
And,
And,
that's when it all began.
So that seed was in there.
It just took a while to get out.
and even then, you know, my journey is,

(11:15):
is,
25, 26, you know, it was still like,I just didn't like myself at all.
So I had to turn off the tv.
I had a mentor come in my life and say,read these books for the next two years.
And I did.
Hmm.
So what's interestingis that it sounds as if.

(11:36):
It's, you know, you started off, youwere talking about the valleys and,
but it sounds to me like winninga state championship when one is
probably identifying as a hockeyplayer during that stage of your life.
I think you identified as a hockey playerprobably, and you reached the pinnacle

(11:56):
the next day there was a door that wasopen that was, we'll call it the seed.
And there may have been
Mm-hmm.
that, but talk about that.
'cause I know you deal witha lot of athletes and all.
We might be getting into some ofthat shortly, but talk about with
you personally, what it was like tobe at, I mean, there was probably
nothing higher that you could havedone at that stage than win that

(12:19):
championship in that sport, correct?
Yeah, that's correct.
I mean, I was 15, 16 years oldand a freshman in high school.
So, you know, winning a state championshipin a state that wasn't known for
winning championships was a big deal.
It was a town of
of
16,000 people.
And, you know, the whole town came out
I,
I was a, you know, acelebrity at that point.

(12:41):
And we had, we had, climbed the summit.
We had done it, we were on the peak.
And, I don't know, I thinkI was probably too young to
understand what all that meant.
It was just celebrate and drink somevodka and orange juice, you know,
you know,
looking back on it, it was definitely,you know, God working in my life.
And so I think there's, you know,looking back on it again, I think

(13:01):
there's bigger pinnacles, you know,and I've studied 'em all from the Super
Bowl to the Stanley Cup to, you know,
know,
MLS, you know, on a world stage, whichis much more difficult to navigate than a
15-year-old winning a state championship.
So would you have, lookingback now, especially, this

(13:21):
is a good question to ask.
Would you have said you werementally tough that age, and if you
were, what did that look like then?
And if you weren't, I guess kind of gradeyour mental toughness at that point.
Oh man, I was weak.
I was fragile.
I was not tough at all.
No way.

(13:42):
I don't even, I mean, it was probably 45 Ithink, before I really probably knew what
mental toughness was and how to use it
it.
honestly.
Honestly, but,
Um,
well with what we'll call it.
This is where I'm gonna start maybe
yeah.
the barriers between how Idefine in Christ or in the world.
Okay.
this is where I'm going here, is thatyou were doing things that were leading

(14:08):
to success in that world system, but yetsomething was lacking that was drawing you
into, we'll call that the Kingdom of God
Yeah.
So, and that was in the twenties,and a lot of people go through
it, a lot of people go throughit later in a life, whatever.
And I think it's all ajourney that we go through.

(14:29):
but I mean, you were doing wellin that world system, correct?
I probably, you know, probably justfelt like there was, that's it.
It's gotta be something more.
It's interesting when you turn todrugs and alcohol, isn't it like to
release the pressure or the stress?
You, you feel like that'sthe way to do it, to let go?

(14:51):
people do it all the time.
In fact, I like to say like fansbeing a fanatic of a sport, you
know, is an acceptable way of,
of,
of deflecting the real issues.
You know, we socially acceptthat, hardcore drugs, we
don't obviously, you know?
Yeah.
And we, in my world, one of thethings that's acceptable in the

(15:14):
business world, you're operatingin the business world now too,
Mm-hmm.
is that it's acceptable to beaddicted to what I call more.
Yeah.
not a drug or anything, it's justmore, I need to make more money.
Mm-hmm.
expand my business, I need to make more,whatever I need to work more hours.
And that addiction is what I've battled.

(15:35):
That's part of my journey.
it is rewarding in that worldsystem, but it's not in the
kingdom, kingdom of God's system.
And so I That's interesting.
Now, one of the things, this is oneof the reasons I was drawn to you,
Okay.
let me go ahead and kinda get maybea controversial type topic out.

(15:55):
I love sports.
I really, really do.
So I wanna preface this nextstatement and what it's gonna lead to.
Questions with, I do love sports.
However, I do wonder in our cultureand society if we are elevating
sport almost idle status in

(16:18):
Mm-hmm.
And it's one of the reasons whyI want to talk to someone who,
obviously sports is your world.
You work with people in that arena.
You also work with peoplethat have great ministries in
Yes.
And so if I say something like,Hey, I believe that sports and
especially the way we're doing itnow, to be like we're building a lot

(16:38):
of idols, respond to that statement.
There's so much there to unpack, honestly.
I'll just take in the direction youtell me if you wanna go a different way.
I, I think the athletes I work with,they don't ask for that at idle.
So I think.
we're all trying to become thebest version of ourselves, whether

(17:00):
we believe in Jesus or not.
Like we wanna see how far we can go,whether it's your average golfer,
whether it's your, I'll use hockey'cause I'm familiar with that.
Like, whether you're.
16-year-old triple A or double aplayer or college or pro, you're just
trying to see how far you can go.
And some guys go farther and gals gofarther than they ever dreamed of.

(17:23):
And so people want that.
they want to know, like I useTiger Woods as an example.
Most of us can relate to that.
Like how did he do that?
I mean, it's so incredibleof how he did that.
And so we're just attracted to thatexcellence, that peak performance.
We want it, we wanna duplicate it.
And it's probably in thatlustful side for sure.

(17:44):
Imagine if we had that samekind of lust for Jesus, right?
That same kind of like, I want toemulate what he did, and we know
the Satan's there to kill, steal,and destroy and provide confusion.
And so why not deflect us back tosport, to man, it's a failing system.
I think the athletes that Iwork with, they're not really
like asking for the idle side.
They're just chasing it.

(18:04):
it.
and we in some level, we wanna knowhow to do that and, you know, what
are the triggers or the bad habitsthat, I have in my life that I can get
rid of so I can be a peak performer?
Yeah.
think inherently, whether youbelieve in God or not, there's
something about the human wantingto be better and wanting to live.

(18:28):
the,
I had the real unfortunateopportunity of, you know, a couple
years ago watching my dad die.
You know, he had lung cancerand he was 80 years old.
And.
He had smoked for 40 years.
He had stopped for 20 years, but it cameback and, you know, he got diagnosed
in November and then he died in April.

(18:48):
And it was really interestingto me, like very emotional.
Lots of grief still going on today,but how when I, when I just watched
that, 'cause you went all over tohospice and like for those that are
not familiar with hospice, like it'sa place where you go to die, you know,
they basically turn it off and makeit a comfortable transition for you.
And it just really kind of blew my mindhow much the body wants to survive and

(19:09):
how much the body can survive on nothing.
And so, like in all animals that God'screated it, it has a survival side of it.
And I think we want to do more than that.
You know, we want, wewanna push the envelope.
Yeah.
And, and I love theword he used excellence.
my dad passed a few years ago too,

(19:31):
Hmm.
cognitive issues andkinda watched it also.
It's kinda like, and you know, we lookat him cognitively, physically, he
seemed kind of strong and, and it wasalmost like, you know, we were saying.
How can he keep going and, but yetmy, my wife's mother's that way.

(19:52):
her body has been roughfor going on 30 years now.
But she's still bad.
Hanging around.
Yeah.
around.
crazy, right?
I'm, I can't believe howstrong in that will to live,
Yeah.
is what we're talking about.
I wanna circle back to that morething related to sports and,

(20:12):
Mm-hmm.
and I guess it's the.
The pressure that cultureand society is putting on it.
and I just this morning read, a quickblurb about a five star quarterback
high school kid that was being recruitedby Oregon and University of Georgia.

(20:32):
I'm originally from Georgia.
I'm not a Georgia fan.
I wanna be real clear about that.
I went to Georgia Tech, but I'm justsitting here thinking about this kid.
He committed Decommitted and nowthey've got all the NIL money and
Mm-hmm.
you know, they've got big timestuff that's always been around.
Now it's kind of out in theopen just sitting here thinking
about 17, 18, 19-year-old.

(20:54):
I hate to call 'em kids.
That sounds, you know, kind of downplay.
But what happens with mental toughness
Yeah.
all of that, all that kind of stuff'sbeing dangled at you and you've got grown
men telling you how awesome you are.
And I was, the reason I kind of wasthinking about it, Dave, is that they,
they, they commented in this articlethen in the last two days while he

(21:17):
was making this flipping decision,he went from one to the other, of
the offensive coordinators and maybeeven the head coaches had come to his
place, sat in his living room, andwe're pitching and recruiting this kid.
Sorry.
But, I mean, h how are we dealing with allthat stuff just from a mental standpoint?

(21:38):
And I mean, business people are too,and people in ministry and all that,
but boy, we're throwing a lot ofstuff at some of these young athletes.
For sure.
and I have a really kind of strongdefinition of mental toughness.
I'll just tell you what it is.
So it's playing or performing.
So in business world you're performing,obviously in sport, you're playing,

(22:00):
playing or performing at the upperranges of your ability consistently
under pressure in the biggest moments.
That's mental toughness.
So what I'd love to also say issports is a Petri dish of emotions.
So once pressure happens, that'swhere we see where you're at.

(22:23):
at.
So like when I watch games now, Idon't really watch for the X's and O's.
I watch for the pressure, seeit come in and then watch the
players and how they deal with it.
That's how you know ifsomebody's strong or not.
not,
It's super easy to watch and fun to watch.
And so then we, andthen I call that low ei.
low E

(22:43):
So when they're mentally weak, theyhave low emotional intelligence.
So when you have low emotionalintelligence, it's all about you, you
know, you complain, you blame others.
You're in what's called a weak channel.
all you can think about is theemotion, what this person did to me.
Your team, mindset goes out the window.

(23:03):
you're focused on winning,not on the process.
There's a whole lot of thingsthat happens when you're low
eye, when you're mentally weak.
And so, same thing with performance.
Like when you're talking aboutorganizations and organizational
leaders, everything's fine whenyou're in your office by yourself.
But once you get around employees andnow maybe there's not as much money in

(23:23):
the account or somebody says somethingto you that you don't like, the pressure
happens and now we see what's inside.
It's interesting, you know,I, I just had an example.
Come to mind, that's sort of recentand I'll, I'll bring it up and let
you either comment on it or I'dlove if you've got a recent example

(23:45):
a sport example where that'll kindof put a timestamp on this episode.
But I don't care.
I don't watch a lot of sports oranything anymore because I realized
I could actually get addicted
Mm-hmm.
the watching of it, you know what I mean?
Yep.
business like yours.
So, you know, but I did catchthe last hour-ish or so of the

(24:08):
Masters, about a month ago with
Yep.
McElroy and I, we had a place not farfrom Augusta, Georgia for the longest
in a golf mecca and things like that.
And I believe that may be an exampleof what you're talking about.
can you speak to that?
Yeah, I can.
And in fact, I've studied him,
him.

(24:28):
I've studied Rory.
Rory.
So this is the difference betweenprocess thinking and outcome thinking.
So when you outcome thinkit's all about winning.
Like he's had that on his shoulders ofwinning the masters for a long time.
And
winning, winning, winning.
And so when
so
comes down to that 18th whole putt,and it's a three foot putt, you know,

(24:53):
if you're not, and who knows what heis thinking, I'm obviously speculating
here, but he missed the putt.
So, and made those putts.
putts
A lot.
Uh, it's hard to say how many, but a lot.
And so when you're always thinking aboutthe outcome, it's a sign of weak thinking.
You know, you're not into power channel.
And so when you're process thinking,you're thinking about the mechanics,

(25:15):
you're thinking about the details, you'renot thinking about the winning, you're
not thinking about the score, you'rethinking about what's in the moment.
And we've seen players like MichaelJordan, Wayne Gretzky, Mary Lou
Lou
Mu,
Mu,
Crosby, like, you know, allthese players play in the moment.
that's what elite performers do.
they, they're able tojust have tunnel vision

(25:35):
vision
they're dealing with right now, youknow, so it's playing at the upper
range of ability, consistently underpressure in the biggest moment.
So they're able to do that,and they train for that.
that.
Right.
Yeah.
I, I want to go a little bit deeper onthat, 'cause I had a thought just to.
Bring the audience that maynot be that have seen it.

(25:57):
Rory had the opportunity for what's calleda career grand slam, where you win the
four top majors in golf, the masters.
I think he had had opportunities for 11years or something like that ' cause he
Mm-hmm.
three at a very young age andhe still has a lot of age.
But that stuff starts creepingup on you a little bit.
And he was leading byone stroke, I believe.

(26:18):
No, he could have on the 18thhole making a short putt.
He would've won it and he missed the putt.
So therefore it wasgonna go into a playoff.
what I would love to do, and I knowthis is speculative, but I would
love to tap into a bit of a sportspsychology, mental toughness example
that's real world in recent for me.

(26:40):
I'd love for you to talk to me alittle bit about what you think.
Was going through hismind he missed the putt.
It's going to a playoff, there's probably20 minutes or so that they've gotta go
back to the tee box of 18 and they'regoing to tee off and play the hole again.

(27:03):
And it's, it's sudden death forthose that might be familiar.
You know, it's like whoevergets the lowest score, first
in the playoff holes wins.
And, to finish the story so peoplearen't on the edge of their seat.
He did, I believe he birdiedand the other guy part.
I can't remember the other name though.
But can you, in your mind,
Tim Scott.
know
Scott.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you got the facts right?

(27:23):
But I mean, in your mind, what do youthink mentally he was doing in that
time between missing the putt and goingback to that tee box at the 18th hole?
Yeah.
So let's go back to thefirst time he played the 18.
You know, he shanks his shot, right?
And then he, he hits a good tee shot,but his second shot's in the bunker,

(27:45):
and then he is gotta come out of thebunker and he comes out with like
a 10 foot putt and he misses it,
it,
which forces the overtime.
So the 20 minutes where he's likehaving to go sign his card and go, I
think he's reflecting on everythingthat happened the first time.
And I think he's probably, ifthere was a coach there is in
his ear saying, just relax man.
Just go have fun, right?

(28:08):
'cause he was so stressed and you couldtell he was stressed and tense in that
second shot when he hit it in the bunker.
He was just thinking aboutwinning, winning, winning.
Whereas now as he comes back andhe hit a great tee shot, his second
shot is within like eight feet.
Right?
and like, so it's, it's like he'sin his groove and so it was all that
stress that he was able to let go andrealize, okay, I can't play this way.

(28:31):
just have fun and, and just play golf.
Yeah.
and I think that, applies to.
Other parts of our lives.
It may not be as narrow of a focuswithin just a few minutes that
we've seen, but him arriving,there wasn't a few minutes either.
That was a much, much
Oh yeah.

(28:51):
journey, and that givesme a great opening.
That's a good segue here.
We talked about, you know, your hockeycareer early on and you went over to
Europe and played some, and then you foundChrist, around your early to mid twenties.
Bring us up to where we are now, butI'd love for you to give me a couple
of the peaks and valleys betweenthat time and where you are now.

(29:16):
And then we're gonna move intotalking about R seven and some of the
things you're doing with M is good.
I want to ask you a couple thingsabout the book, but just give us a
couple of the journey ups and downsalong the way before we do that.
Yeah.
such great questions, man.
There's so many ups and downs in there.
I would say, I got a slap shot inthe face, broke my nose in three

(29:37):
different directions, cut thenerve and my teeth in my mouth.
Deviated septum.
Oh, you mean literally gota slap shot in your face?
I thought you were talking aboutold life just brought No, you
literally got a slap shot in your
I got, I got puck in the facein Kalamazoo K Wing stadium.
And so, I had three yards of
of
Each nostril, there were tubes in mynose and I couldn't breathe outta the

(29:58):
tubes 'cause it got all clogged up,
up,
because of mucus.
And so I had to breathe outta my mouth.
You know, the next two weeks my tongueis cracking and bleeding at night.
And, that was a low, that was one ofthe first times I got on my knees.
I said, Lord, what do you want from me?
Because this is not like,I didn't know how to pray.
I was 21 years old.
I didn't pray.

(30:18):
I wasn't really reading the Bible.
I just knew I needed to go to asource, you know, and the source that
had never really failed me was God.
So I just said, you know what, God, what,what do you want me to do with my life?
This, this sucks.
Like, this is terrible.
And so I ended up goingoverseas and playing and, you
know, that was a good career.
I ended up, you know, playing there forfour years and then, and then coming back.

(30:42):
I started my company when I was 28 and.
Again, I was, I was just, I hadtaken a sales job with a Fox tv and
and
I really didn't like it.
And so I went back to prayer.
I said, Lord, what do you want me to do?
And,
And, I found myself staring at a listof all the Christian organizations on
the TV station, and I thought, I'll juststart an ad and see, what do I call it?

(31:04):
it?
And the Lord gave me marketing ministries.
And I, it wasn't like an audible voice.
I was just like, marketingministries, that sounds cool.
like,
could that be it?
So I, I didn't know what I was doing.
I got a lawyer and, he said, yeah,marketing ministries available.
And I was like, oh, that'scool that name will work.
I thought it was kind of a dumb name.
And I'm like, all right, Lauren,you're not so dumb after all.
all.

(31:24):
And so I began to start my companyand out of that list, I went to that
list after I left and I said, Hey,I'm going to, or before I left, I
said, I'm gonna start an agency.
What?
You know, will you follow me?
And, and out of the 21 on the list,I said, yeah, we'll follow you.
you
We're in.
in.
And so, that was likein a November timeframe.
In January.
I actually went back to him in 18.

(31:47):
Out of the 21 said, we're not with you.
That
That was a low, so the first year, Ithink we invoiced $15,000 that year.
Um, and I made 15%commission from that 15,000.
So that was, that was bad.
The second year was like 30,000.

(32:09):
That was bad.
Third, third year was like 200,000.
Still not good.
15% of 200,000 is $30,000 a year.
You know, I'm notsetting the word on fire.
And so at this point, myfaith is being challenged.
Um, you know, but I, I just, Iguess I just knew that something
good was gonna keep going.

(32:30):
Like, come something good wasgonna come out of, I kept going.
So I just never really looked back.
I just stepped out onfaith and just push, push.
Pushed.
The fourth year we billed $800,000
and the fifth year it justnever, I just never looked back.
I'm on my 24th year now.

(32:51):
year now.
Yeah.
during that time though, I'm justcurious before we move on, did you,
and I love when we talk about, youknow, just had faith to keep going.
You know, when you're, when you'regetting 15% of what people can't, 15%
of what people can't live off of anyway.

(33:12):
And uh, I'm sure you were probably,you know, if you didn't have family
or anything at that point, even ifyou're single, that's probably tough.
Any considerations of, did you hearthe lord, did I make a mistake?
Do I need to go do something else?
Do I need to just go get a job?
Do I need to do something different?
Any of that, we'll call it doubtcreeping in, but sometimes it's

(33:35):
just the process of going throughthe different options and all.
And I'm not sure that it'salways entirely bad, but any of
that going on during that time,
Tim, all of that's going on.
The doubt, the fear,the anxiety, the stress.
Are you sure?
Are you not sure?

(33:58):
you talked about commonChristian language.
I call that obligatoryreligious phraseology.
You know, it's like we say thisstuff and nobody knows what
that means, and like we go Okay.
know,
I had that.
and neither do we often,
Exactly, exactly.
Like I had some of that aroundme, but I just, I don't know, man.
I had this intuition.
I'm just gonna keep going

(34:19):
And
and I do, I just don't resonate with theidea that God can steer a parked car.
Like I just don't sign up for that camp.
Could God steer a parked car?
Well, God could do anything, butcan God really steer a parked car?
Like if you're sitting around and going,okay, God, it's just gonna happen.

(34:40):
You know, because it's just gonna happen.
It's gonna be your will.
I just don't think God works that way.
Like you gotta go after it.
You gotta open the door.
So, Tim, I've always had this kind of
of
idea of a hallway, and the hallway has asmany doors as you can see in this hallway.
It's probably.
50 to a hundred feet long,and You gotta open the doors.

(35:01):
You gotta physically walk downthe hallway and open the door and
go, that's not the door for me.
Or this is the door for me.
I'm gonna see what, let'sopen, let's go explore.
know,
like, you gotta move, you know?
is,
you know what, I'm not themost talented guy in the room.
I'm probably not the smartestguy in the room, but I will
come early and I will stay late.

(35:21):
I can do that, right?
I can think about it 16 times and getit wrong, and then come back the seventh
and eighth time and get it right.
Yeah, I like that parked car analogy.
The thought that came to my mind whenyou were bringing it up is, yeah, God
could move a parked car, but why wouldhe create a car and not expect someone
to start the engine and actually move it?

(35:42):
That
Come on.
at all.
That's right.
yeah, he could pick the car up,he could rain down, fire on it
and disintegrate it, whatever.
All that's fine.
Yeah,
go through the effort of creating thatcar if you don't expect it to move?
said earlier, Dave, that youbelieve that in the valleys is when
we glorify And you've mentioneda few valleys along the way.

(36:07):
you, sort of a trick question here.
Do you believe in looking back, youwere glorifying God or were you in
the process of attempting, or whatwould you say about yourself during
your valleys looking back on them,
man, these are questions I've neverbeen asked before, so I, I love this.
This is great.
I think on a scale one to 10, you know, 10being the best, I've probably done a six

(36:33):
on like, glorifying the Lord, you know?
I've always kept it in front of me.
me,
But, there's always that time like, ohmy gosh, how do I glorify the Lord here?
You know, like, this is too tough.
I remember this is a really cool story.
I remember back in 2010, the market had
had

(36:53):
took a serious dip in 2008.
We didn't feel it, but we fell in 2010.
And, you know, at the time we weredoing a lot of media buying and, I just
didn't have a whole lot of cash flow.
And so, one of the,
the,
media companies called and said, youknow, you're not on 90 day terms anymore.
You're on three day terms.
We need $50,000.

(37:13):
This is on a Wednesday.
And I'm driving from Dallas,Texas to San Antonio in a 12
passenger van because I forgot to
to
set up the rental car.
And the only thing theyhad was a 12 passenger van.
And I get a call and they say, Hey,we're turning off your terms on Friday.
It's a Wednesday, we need $50,000.
I called one of my mentors and Isaid, Hey man, can I borrow $50,000?

(37:35):
I'll pay you.
I promise I'll pay you back.
And, and Tim, he laughed at me.
He just laughed at me.
He said, Davy, this is whereyou're gonna trust the Lord.
Everything's gonna turn out all right.
You know, I'm not giving you $50,000.
Glorify the Lord.
And I was like, oh my.
Come on Jerry, please.
Just, I just need the 50 K.And it was, that was one of

(37:58):
the biggest, I was so scared.
You know how you have like anxiety,but then like the somatic anxiety where
your heart rate and your sweating andyou're like, you just uncontrollable.
It's like drinking too much caffeine.
Like, I had this for about a day.
I'm like, I'm gonna be shut down.
And so, that was a valley and I learneda hard lesson there and I was like, okay,
I will go, you know, it all worked out.

(38:18):
I ended up working out terms withthem, ended up making payment plans,
and I figured it out, you know, and,
But yeah, that was one of the timeswhere I turned to somebody wealthy who
could help me, and they told me no.
no.
and that was probably one ofthe best things that could have
Best things.
Yeah.
so you got a hockey puck to the faceagain, proverbial not a actual Yeah.

(38:41):
anyway, that's, that's interesting.
The cool thing that just came tomind is like, you gave yourself a
six, outta 10, and probably a lotof us, we could say, yes, I need to
glorify the Lord I'm in those valleys.
Yeah, and if I look back, I wouldprobably be generous to give myself a six.
You know, I
Mm.
I think detrimental, butI was whining a lot more.

(39:05):
After oh eight was when a lot ofour financial issues were too.
Mm-hmm.
years after that we were homelessand bankrupt and you know,
all kind of things went on.
Looking back, it was a great thing.
In the midst of it, not so great.
that's where God's grace comes in.
That's why, I mean, that's why there's,there's multiple things going on here.
Yes.
I think ideally it would beawesome if we are at a 98%

(39:29):
glorifying and on, oh Lord, yes.
You were so awesome.
But man, I was whining.
I was
Yeah.
and so that's where his grace kicks in andhe kind of says, okay, we're good here.
so now catch me up and tell meall that you're working on now.
'cause at some point you startedmoving into, I'll call it coaching, I
guess now you're technically a sportspsychologist, but you're working with,

(39:53):
you know, athletes and people like that.
You're also still, I think,have the marketing company.
We're gonna bring up the book injust a moment, but we, when did
all that start to come into play?
it's honestly been ajourney, lifelong journey.
So, you know, m as good is 24 years old.
We've got 38 to 41 clientswe manage on a weekly basis.

(40:13):
Our vertical is Christianorganizations, so we work on their
on their
messaging and their KPI management.
Uh, I just been, um, Ijust been pushing hard on.
Psychology.
You know, I kind of believethat, psychology, study of human
behavior, sports psychology, studyof human behavior within sport.

(40:34):
And so I just got attracted to, behaviorand, you know, not the idea of psychology.
'cause it comes from avery, you know, dark place.
but just that study and how we readthings, how we react to things, it
plays well with them as good because,I'm as good as about messaging to
a certain audience or audiencesthroughout all the demographics

(40:55):
we have with different clients.
And
And so, I just chase that and, you know,just chase, I'm not really like a big
title guy as we've discussed before.
But,
I wanted a path to study psychologyand I looked at, the academic
world to gimme that path.
And I chased it all theway to the terminal degree.
Which happens to be sportand performance psychology.
And so it's just really been, me chasingthat in the marketing side of things.

(41:17):
then
the coaching, the executive coaching, I,you know, I, I was a chairman of the board
with FCA hockey fellowship, ChristianAthletes Hockey for about 10 years.
And so some players hadasked me, Hey, can we chat?
And said, sure.
and so, that's just balloonedinto something a lot of fun
for me to talk to different,
from the NHL down every week ontheir performance and their ability.

(41:39):
and how they chase peakperformance with the idea of,
you know, Christ as their center.
So, yeah.
So if, if someone told you, you couldkind of only do one of those things, you
had to peel some things away, which one?
This is a, this is one ofthese trick questions that
Yeah.
Which one is nourishing yoursoul the most right now, Dave?

(42:03):
Oh, it's such a great question,and I think, I don't really sep, I,
I,
I don't really look at'em as two, honestly.
I, and it kind of goes back to how Ivet different clients that come into
our organization or come into 'emas good as, as a potential client.
I usually tell 'em, listen, we don'tdiscriminate based upon budget.
know,
ministry's too small,no ministry's too big.

(42:25):
This is about how do we create messaging?
How do we get your identity right so thatwe can attract more people to the Lord?
That's what it is there.
There's a vision side of you
you
that wants to come out becausethat's who you're created to be.
be.
And so if I can help you with that, I'mexcited to be on that journey with you.

(42:45):
you.
And so it's not the sport.
Or, you know, the player or theorganizational leader, to me, they're one
and the same because they're both createdin the image of God to glorify him.
Honestly, I just don't,
don't,
I don't have a weightone way or the other.
like,
I prayed Tim, that,
that,
that I would be used by God.

(43:05):
That was my prayer.
And you know what came back?
Are you usable?
I was like, Lord, use me.
And I just, I just felt like, am I usable?
I don't know that I'm usable.
I need to be usable by God ifI'm gonna ask that question.
Right?
Like,
please use me, Lord, for your, for tohelp other people become peak performers

(43:26):
in your economy, not the worlds.
And so, I had a checkup from the neck upwhen I said, okay, I need to be usable.
Right?
And that's where this flapthing came, came from.
Fear, less anger, pride.
I need to get rid of some of this stuff.
Although we are all dealing with,
with,
you know, two of thoseat any given moment.
moment.
We just become better.
That's the other thing I feel that Ineed to say in this podcast that I just

(43:48):
want to come clear, is that, you know,being a Christian is not being perfect.
You know, the difference betweena religion and a relationship
is totally different.
Like here, say, oh, you're religious.
I'm not religious at all.
at
I have a relationshipwith my Heavenly Father.
And that's a relationship that sometimesI'm not very good at chasing him and

(44:10):
listening to the Holy Spirit, you know?
know?
so
so I just wanna be clear that it'sjust about a relationship and it's
about, doing the best that you can.
that's another cooldefinition that I have.
excellence.
I.
Excellence is doing the best thatyou can with the current resources
available to you in this moment.
Yeah.
I like, I like the in this momentand I like the word resources.

(44:35):
Yeah.
to throw in money or talent ordifferent things like that, but just
resources and I think that allowseveryone to sort of relate to it.
Yeah.
thing that you brought up.
The, the US be to be usable.
As you were saying that Iwas kind of asking, I was
kind of thinking to myself, I

(44:55):
Yeah,
I was with you.
yeah.
to myself, huh, am I usable?
And I realized that overthe course of my life.
I am usable, but Iattach conditions to it.
Hmm.
attach conditions, especially thoseof us that are in what we call this
first world, incredibly comfortable.
We're sitting here, I'm in an rv,but still, you know, we're in roof

(45:17):
over our heads, things like that.
I think there is some conditions, butI think it's part of a, a process where
those conditions start to fall away.
Or at least I hope they do.
And you probably have seen that onyour journey, I guess too, is that,
you know, we talk about usability atone stage in our life and you know,
you start off early on as a Christian,you go, ah, that probably means I'm

(45:39):
gonna go to Africa, be a missionary.
I'm gonna be living in a hut.
Anyway.
but the usability is for that car that Godcreated that's sitting there for it to be
used in the way that he created to, forthat engine to get started and get going.
And, you know, there are Ferraris,there's trucks, there's whatever.
We could go down that analogy,anyway, I I, there's so many

(46:00):
places that we could go here, Dave.
Can I speak to that just for a second?
what you had just brought up, I, I,I, I love the, you know, like you're
in a rv, you know, being usable.
I kind of look at your walk withChrist as almost like a US diplomat.
You know, when you're adiplomat, no matter where your

(46:22):
feet land, you're on US soil.
And so, like, as a Christian,no matter where you're at,
you're an ambassador for Christ.
It doesn't matter what you're doing.
And so, you know, that brings in theintegrity, the honesty, the fruits of
the spirit, love, peace, patient selfcontrol, no matter where you're at.

(46:42):
You don't have to be in the four walls ofa traditional building to be a Christian.
Going to church doesn'tmake you a Christian.
And so it's where we're at.
It's our involvement everyday is how we glorify him.
Right?
Like except for the grace of God, there goI and believing that, that you know, that,

(47:05):
that you're an ambassador for Christ.
You know, there's so muchaccountability there.
And
And,
when we talk, I love Ephesians six 'causeit's talking about the armor of God.
like, I'm going into battleman, like I'm battle ready.
I'm ready, Lord.
Send it.
and let me see how mentally toughI am as I walk through these
minefields of these peaks and valleys.

(47:27):
Yeah.
Spoken like a true hockey player.
I'm sure you're wanting to suitup and ready, go into battle, and
Yeah.
Hey, hey Dave.
A lot of people, especially peoplelistening in would go, oh man, it would
be so awesome to only work with Christian
Hmm.
businesses within marketingand things like that.
This is the way my mind works.
Yeah.

(47:47):
I know it's not always awesome.
there's some issues with Christianbusinesses, especially when you start
trying to help them with their messaging
Yes,
getting the word out.
Tell me what some of the cons aresome of the issues and challenges with
working with Christian businesses.
Do not throw any of yourclients under the bus or
sure.
not gonna do that
Yeah.
what are some things you have to dealwith there that may not be so awesome?

(48:11):
Well, first of all,there's never any money
that's a problem.
know.
know, my experience is a lotof Christians want it cheap.
You know, they want it for nothing.
They want free advice.
They want free this, free that.
Like, I've turned away so manyclients that's that like, you know,

(48:31):
know,
this is one of my favorite words.
Hey, we wanna partner with you.
with you.
And so this partnershiphas really got me on edge.
You know, it's like, okay,let me just be clear.
Are we really partners because partnersshare and they go back and forth?
Or is this code for, I want touse your payroll for my vision,

(48:52):
because
because that's normally what it is.
Yeah, I'll give you theidea, but you run with it.
it.
And so I've tackled that.
I can't be more fired upabout your vision than you.
you.
so I would say, having a budget coming inis usually been rough in my experience.
I'll also say that there's,
like
when we were talking about earlier,you know, this idea that, you know,

(49:12):
know,
the guy can stare apart car, you know,there's so many times where like we
just lean on the Lord and that's it.
it.
So the hustle, the come early, the staylate, you know, it's typically not there.
and so they want things cheap andthey want things done, you know, where
somebody else does the work for them.

(49:33):
That doesn't work.
I would also say that breaking themindset, which I think I've done a
pretty good job over the years ofobligatory religious phraseology.
it is bad.
discipleship, hope, grace, these are allwords that we really don't understand.
I'm even sure I understand.
I just know that the way we'repositioning it within the

(49:54):
Christian community doesn't work.
We don't know what they are andcertainly the audience we're
trying to attract to doesn't Yeah.
Yeah.
So, man, that was also good.
I'm so glad I asked that question.
Got me all fired up.
fired up.
Yeah.
No, man.
Uh, man, that'd be like awhole episode right there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, because it brought me back to aconversation I had in Bible school where,

(50:16):
uh, I've always been a business guy.
I was saved in a business setting.
So I, business is theway my mind is wired.
I'm not saying that's alwaysgood, it's just the way I'm wired.
And so the whole, I'll callit the religion structure.
Notice I didn't say the kingdom of God.
I said the religion structure isn't reallymy language and my place because of a
lot of the stuff you just brought up.

(50:36):
But I remember having a conversation withanother business guy at Bible school,
and there was this great business ideathat someone had, and we said, man,
this would be great for missionaries ifthey could do it, they could make money.
They wouldn't have to come back and begevery time they come to the United States.
And he said, Tim, he goes, I gottabe honest with you, we've talked
to some missionaries about it.
And he goes, and they're lazy.

(50:57):
Yeah.
They're not willing to work.
And I went, man.
I don't like hearing that.
And that, and that's something thatwe've had conversations here on the
show often, and I love the fact thatyou are functioning and operating in the
marketplace and you're probably forcingthese conversations about mission,
vision, mental toughness, excellence,all the words that we've been talking

(51:20):
about somewhere along the way that ledto a book, I've got it here, it's on my
Yeah.
called Vision Wins.
Yeah, let's go.
Seven Strategies for Mental Toughness.
That's why I said, okay, mentaltoughness is good in life sports,
and tell me a little bit aboutwhat brought you to, to write this.

(51:42):
And then I've got some commentsand a few questions about the book.
Just in the, I'm at 30.
I'm at 40%
Okay.
the book
All right.
I'm in the middle of Elliotand Kelly's story, and this
Oh, awesome.
in.
So, and I've seen the word Zambonia few times, which for a guy from
Georgia, I love to be able to say it.

(52:02):
I'm pretty confident that over300 plus episodes, it's the first
time Zamboni has been said on the
Oh my gosh.
podcast.
So tell me about Vision Wins.
Yeah.
So years ago, I'm abig fan of John Gordon.
if you read any of his books, Ijust love how he writes fables.
And, I had the opportunity to carryhis luggage to a meeting once.

(52:24):
it was through an FCA eventand I was his chaperone, making
sure he was taken care of.
I had some time with him and I justasked him, how do you write a book?
And he told me,
me,
and, he told me the process.
so I sort of said, you know,someday I'm gonna write a book and
that's exactly how I want to do it.
So I wanted to be a fable.
I didn't want to be like the sevenstrategies for, you know, methyl

(52:44):
toughness and just seven strategiesI wanted tell a story around it.
it.
So it took me a couple yearsto build out the characters.
And I had this, I have this hugemind map of Kelly and Elliot's,
you know, their genealogy.
And I just started building out thecharacters and one of John's, the
way John writes books is like, hejust does his life and he's like,
Ooh, this would be a cool setting.

(53:05):
And so like he puts thatdown, this is the setting.
And so I had been in Edina,Minnesota with my son playing pond
hockey, and I'm looking around,I'm like, oh my gosh, mini haha.
Like this would be such acool street name, you know?
And so like, and, and you know, theEdina, you know, we're playing, what
they call it, the ODR Outdoor Rink there.
And it was like on thispond in the middle.

(53:26):
It was awesome.
Like this is my setting.
So it's, it's an Edina in Minnesotaand Kelly and Elliot, you know, they
go through this venture together of,You know how they're trying to be the
best version of themselves, you know?
and so they have a mentor named jj, and JJwalks him through the, the seven, R seven.
And he happens to be the Zamboni driver.

(53:49):
Actually, he reminds me a lot likeyou, Tim, like, corporate guy, kind of
doing something different, totally outof the blue of, what you would expect.
so JJ goes to be a Zamboni driver, likeno one expect him to do that 'cause he
is a high paid consultant executive,but he's got this R seven inside of him.
And so he basically, pulls ColleenElliot aside and kind of gives them

(54:09):
parts of the R seven throughouttheir experience at the hockey rink.
Yeah, it's, the part that I'vegotten to is good storytelling
I love the, fable parable.
Yeah.
I call it fiction with amission type storytelling.
That's what I did with the novelthat I wrote a few years ago.
I had some characters in my novelthat people would ask me questions.

(54:32):
They said Is, is Cooper you or is asa you?
And all of that.
And, and not gonna give the answer,but I'm gonna ask you the question.
You've got young male hockey player,you've got Kelly, who's female and
things there, and then you've got jjI'm sitting here as I'm reading it,

(54:55):
trying to guess this person I'm aboutto interview Dave Wonder which one
Yeah.
him.
So I'll ask you that.
Which one, which one is more you?
Yeah.
So I think,
you there.
yeah, so like you and Ihave the same mind, man.
Like I definitely wanted each one ofthose characters in the book to reflect
somebody or a conglomerate of somebody.

(55:15):
So I am JJ in the book.
Yeah.
Yeah, I figured that.
And so,
Yeah.
so there, they're moving down a path.
As I'm reading, it's gonna reveal this.
R seven.
I am just getting to the beginning,but starts with vision and mission.
We only have a couple minutes here, butgive as, as much of an overview as you

(55:35):
can about R seven, in just a, you know,a minute or a few seconds here so that
people can get a glimpse of what they willlearn when they get a copy of the book.
Yeah.
So, R seven.
I'll shorten as much as I can.
I got hit with a prophecy in Germanyin 2008, and the prophecy was R
seven and for the next three tofive years, Tim, you'll love this.

(55:58):
these mentors showedup in my life and just
It
really just mentored me on vision,strategy, brand communication,
praying, and step seven, take action.
and so that's R seven.
Now it's very much fine tunednow over, a 15 year period.
I've walked hundreds and hundredsof executives and professional

(56:21):
athletes through R seven.
it is, to me it is thefoundation of creating a brand.
I've created brands without messaging.
It doesn't work.
I've created messaging, you know, justbasically building the bridge as you, you
know, walking across the bridge as you'rebuilding it, putting the bricks down as
you're walking, you know, kind of thing.
thing.
So this is a high level strategicprocess to build a brand.

(56:44):
Yeah, that's good.
Just, but
Yeah.
where, I'm sure I know the book'son Amazon, 'cause I actually got
it on Kindle Unlimited, which was
Awesome.
tell people where theycould find all your stuff.
We'll include it down in the notes,but, m is good and anything else
that you wanna share, then I've gotone more question that's kind of my
exclamation point question for you.

(57:05):
Sure you can find me@sgood.com.
All my R seven blogs.
I've done a probably in the last 15years, I don't write many blogs, probably
like four a year, so I make sure thatthey're pretty rigorous and detailed.
So I'm doing a pretty good job withthe R seven podcast and writing a
blog first and putting the podcast up.
So if you wanna consume more,it's, it's at m as good.com.

(57:29):
Very good.
All right, so I, the subtitle of the bookis Seven Strategies for Mental Toughness.
So.
Dr. Super Dave, someone's listening in andthey're questioning whether or not they've
got the mental toughness that they need.

(57:53):
I'm gonna give you, letthe Holy Spirit lead.
Yes.
30 seconds to speak directly tothat person that really questioning
their mental toughness and theywant to increase it, Encourage them.
Yeah.
So first of all, I just wanna encourageyou for asking yourself this question.
I think there's a level ofmindfulness that maybe you're not

(58:13):
mentally tough, and so now you'rethinking about it, which is huge.
know,
I think in a fixed mindset,you can go, yeah, I'm good.
I don't need to do any of that.
That's where, you know,excellence does not happen.
So just by asking thequestion, it's powerful to
say, okay, am I mentally tough?
So you're mindful thatyou're not, which is great.
The next step is, being mentallytough is not about how you were born.

(58:38):
It's not about your genealogy, it isabout how you're thinking about the world.
And so the easiest, simplest thing I cansay is, and it's the slogan of mental
toughness training, which is plan to win.
So when you're planning to win, right?
if you don't have a plan,you're planning to lose.

(58:58):
So it doesn't mean the plan isstuck for the next five years.
It means that you're thinkingabout it before it happens.
So when we plan to win, we arementally, emotionally, physically,
spiritually aware, or planningfor what we wanna do next.
When you start writing stuffdown and you start thinking about
things, it just speaks to you.

(59:18):
you.
And so that's what I would say.
Excellent.
So good.
Dave Jones, author of VisionWins Seven Strategies for Mental
Toughness in Life and Sports.
Get a copy of the book.
Like I said, I'm about 35% throughand it's great storytelling.
I'm real curious now what's gonna happenwith Kelly and Elliot as they go along

(59:39):
I'll get to hear more Zamboni, Zamboni.
Zamboni.
That's really cool.
I love to use that word.
thanks Dave.
We appreciate you joining us here.
We're seat go create.
We've got new episodes here every Monday.
stuff just like this, just likethis every week that we're bringing
people in are just helping us be thepeople that we were created to be.

(01:00:02):
That's what we're all about here.
And so thanks for joining us and we willsee everyone next week on Seek Go Create.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mental Toughness and Leading with Vision: Dr. Dave Jones Unpacks Vision-Driven Leadership