Navigating Economic Disruption and Opportunity: Seeking Truth with M.C. Laubscher

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't see anything as a get rich quick.

(00:02):
The only way to build true, sustainable,multi-generational wealth is through
discipline and following proven systems.
How can unconventional financialstrategies revolutionize your wealth?

(00:26):
Welcome to Seat Go Create, wheretoday we're joined by mc, lobster
renowned expert in alternative wealthstrategies and asset investing.
Mc is the visionary behindproducers wealth, helping business
owners nationwide to craft.
Sophisticated financial plans.
He's also the host of theCashflow Ninja Podcast, recognized
by Entrepreneur Magazine andlistened to in over 180 countries.

(00:50):
Tune in today is mc Unveils powerfulinsights on creating financial freedom and
securing a lasting legacy for your family.
Mc, we almost got off track talking aboutRVing, but welcome to Seat Go Create.
Thank you so much for having me, Tim.
Look, I've been looking forward to thisand yes, I love the RV conversation
we already had, so looking forwardto jumping into many topics with you.

(01:14):
I wanna talk financial stuff.
I wanna talk the alternative investing.
Got a copy of your book here.
We'll talk about this as we go along.
But, let's just jump into thedeep end of the pool here.
And first question, I'm gonna letyou choose, would you rather answer,
what do you do, you know, kindof typical networking question.
You're out and about, you bump intopeople on a plane or something.

(01:35):
What do you do?
Or.
Who are you that might havea deeper component to it?
Pick, pick it and go ahead and answer.
I love it.
We're starting deep right away.
I would answer who I am.
So, I'm a husband to Megan.
I'm a father to my two lovelychildren, Christian and Josephine.

(01:56):
I'm just an individual that isalways looking for more freedom,
and striving for freedom in allareas of my life and sovereignty.
it's kind of powerful to havea combination of both of those.
I grew up in South Africa, andI've been in the US since 2001, I
grew up during a very interestingtime in the country's history.

(02:18):
So as a young man, where we went from one.
Type of former government.
You had the Aport regime all theway through to, you know, the first
democratically elected, government.
So I still remember as a young man whenNelson Mandela was released from prison.
So I lived through all of that.
I saw all of that, and I saw the differentchanges, which was a gift as a young man

(02:39):
really to, to see for what it is, right.
That, you know, there's a lot ofdifferent ways to look at something
and, you know, seeking the truthbecome a passion of mine too.
You know, and I would, I would say thatI'm a truth seeker because I, I'd love to.
Get all the different narrativesthat are out there, all the different
story, his story, you know, everybody'sgot a story and then figure out

(03:03):
where the truth kind of lies.
And, you know, being able to dothat has served me well in other
areas of my life when it comes tohealth, when it comes to finances,
relationships, you know, how those work.
and yeah, so I would say that,you know, I love to have fun.
I love adventure.
I'm always learning, always seekingthe truth, and I'm just trying to be

(03:26):
the best husband to Megan and the bestfather, to Christian and Josephine.
Have you always been a truth seeker?
I mean, can you recall that goingback to, how old were you in
2001 when you came to the States?
I was 20, I just turned 22.
so I would say it started in SouthAfrica because, you know, it was
very, very interesting you had oneway of, society looked one way and

(03:50):
you operated one way, and there was.
The truth in society at that point,then it completely flipped on its head.
So at that stage you're like,well, what is the truth?
Because these people are saying thatthese people are saying the other thing.
Then there's, you know,other viewpoints on it too.
so where does it lie?
you know, and I think at that stageI started to question everything,

(04:13):
regardless of where it came from.
And I'm like, I gottafigure this out for myself.
'cause I have a sneaking suspicionthat we're not getting the full
story from anybody and it's kindof our job to put it all together.
And that was my passionreally for history, economics,
and eventually finances.
Well, I gotta figure out how the worldworks to figure out how, the society

(04:35):
that I'm living in actually works.
And if you put it all together, thethree lenses that have really served
me well, the first thing is historyand there's different types of history.
Everybody's got a different versionof it, you know, and these days
there are so many of them out there.
So you gotta look at all the differentsides of the story I kind of figure
out where does the highest probabilitylie of what actually happened?

(04:58):
And then the second thingthen becomes economics.
And it's a boring subject atschool for people to learn.
And you know, God bless you ifyou did it at university too.
Like I did, very boringof how it's presented.
But if you actually think about it,it's one of the most important topics.
' cause it's how a society functions,what's happening inside of our
households, our neighborhoods,our communities, our societies.

(05:22):
and there's different ebbsand flows in an economy.
So if you put that kind of withthe history, you get a clearer
picture of what actually happened.
And then you start to lookat the financial system,
the global financial system.
You know, you have financial systems.
then you start to really get a goodpicture of what actually happened.
And I'll give an example.

(05:43):
So a lot of people in the US learnedabout the Louisiana purchase.
The French sold off Louisiana toThomas Jefferson, and everybody's
very well familiar with that.
But if you take a step back andsay, well, why did that happen?
They didn't, you know,did they just sell it off?
Why didn't they just keep it, you know,and people would still be speaking

(06:04):
French there, and you'd probablyhave the same amount of fun and, you
know, great cuisine as everything.
But why did that actually happen?
If you look at history, well, you had two.
Up and coming superpowerscompeting for the world, which
is all the trade routes, right?
So you had Great Britain, the British.
The British, and you had theFrench and the big power play there

(06:27):
was, and they were really bumpingheads in on world trade all over.
'cause if you can control all thetrade routes, that's actually the
number one thing of a superpowerto control all the trade.
What is the number one role of amilitary, of a superpower to protect
global trade, all of the trade routes.
So those guys came to a head,they started to go to war.

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And everybody of course, knows about thedefeat that Napoleon had at Waterloo.
That's a very, very well known one.
Well, Napoleon was the one that soldthe Louisiana, so why did he sell it?
So, if you look at history, there'ssome economics behind all of it.
But what's the financial side?
The Battle of Waterloo is probably oneof the biggest, most decisive battles,

(07:09):
probably in the last 250 years inthe world, because at that stage, it
was actually a battle to set up theglobal financial system for the world.
At that point, that defeat thatNapoleon added Waterloo Gold, gold
were exchanged in vaults in London.
London became the number one financialcenter in the world after that.

(07:33):
Well, Napoleon sold off Louisianabecause he went to war with
the banking families in Europe.
So there's a couple waysthat you can fund a war.
You can raise money from.
Your citizens through taxes oryou know, everybody's familiar.
If you're a little bit olderor maybe you read about it,
war bonds was a thing, right?

(07:54):
And the other, you couldraise it from the citizens.
The other thing is couldmaybe sell us some assets or
natural resources and so forth.
and then the other thing isyou could borrow the money.
go to someone and well, wherewould they borrow it from?
Well, the banking families inEurope at that stage, and they were
very much put against Napoleon.

(08:15):
So he looked at this, I'mlike, I don't have an option.
I'm going to war with these guys.
these guys want me out'cause I'm a threat to them.
Right?
He was a threat to theexisting order at that stage.
So I've, I've gotta self-fundit, so I don't wanna raise taxes.
'cause at that stage, the French werealso kind of in an economic slump.
So I gotta go and soldoff, sell us some assets.

(08:35):
So when you put that alltogether, those three lenses,
now you have a clearer idea of.
What possibly happened andhow this played out, right?
Instead of if you just had the history.
That's one thing.
If you just had theeconomics, that's one thing.
If you just had the financial thing.
But I think like that really iswhere my truth seeking started was.

(08:56):
You know, growing up in South Africa,realizing early as a young man,
like the world is not as presented.
There's a lot of things thatpeople are not telling me, and
there's a lot of narratives whichare conflicting with each other.
So let's figure out what actuallyhappened and how things work, right?
Well, it's also usually more thanjust a paragraph in a history book,

(09:16):
which is Louisiana Purchase is
Yep,
and that makes it very transactional.
Like there was a transaction, Americadecided, you know, young country.
With probably barely any money themselves.
So we're gonna acquire thispiece of land from this country.
Now, there was more going on, justlike there's more going on right now

(09:39):
that you and I are gonna discuss alittle bit later when we talk about
tariffs, when we especially trade, whenwe talk about other things happening.
I wanna back up a little bit.
I was in and out of South Africa probablythree or four times in like 95, 96, 97.
Sounds like that was the time, maybethat you were around your teenage

(10:02):
years or something like that.
I would love for us to, beforewe get too far away from this.
I think, we've got audiences allover like you do over at, cashflow
Ninja, but we have a heavy US audience
Yep.
I at times am concerned that UShas these blinders on and they
don't grasp bigger picture things.

(10:23):
So I would love for you to give us a bitof contrast between some things that we
call a word you used in your introduction.
Freedom.
What you saw up to your first 20something years of life, and you saw a
couple variations of it too, by the way.
You probably saw a pre 19 90, 91 versionwhen you know Mandela and others, there's

(10:48):
transitions and then you probably sawanother transition when you came here.
Just talk about whereveryou wanna go with it.
Contrast.
What you saw growing up there, and thenmaybe what you saw in oh one when you
came over to the US at 22 years old.
Yeah, that's a very, very good question.

(11:09):
when you, you know, I remember too, we hada state controlled media and newspapers
and they pretended to be independent too.
Right?
But all in all, it's a system andit's a system of information control.
So what you see on television,what you see in the media, what is
allowable opinion, and then also whatis taught in universities and schools.

(11:35):
You know, the apartheid years thatI grew in, the same kind of thing.
So it's different what I saw when it comesto freedom, and, and, and you know, I've
a lot of libertarian and kind of like, youknow, a little bit of ancap beliefs too.
I think everybody at heart is thatwho doesn't want to be free, right?
And just able to pursue their own,their own dreams and their own lives.

(11:58):
and let, let everybody figuretheirs out for themselves.
the control is a big thing that Iwitnessed as a young man and even in
South Africa where you went from onetotalitarian regime, you kind of had that
window, which was kind of the honeymoonperiod where Mandela was released.
He got into office.
He was in and out as president.
And it was basically the honeymoonperiod of South Africa at that stage.

(12:20):
And then after, Nelson Mandela too,you had a different type of character
coming in, where the one was more,fascist of the apartheid regime.
Now you had a much more kindof like communist leaning of
these characters coming in.
So consequently in SouthAfrica over the past 30 years.
And the reason why it's in theheadlines is because you have actually

(12:43):
had people since Mandela left office,and he is of course, has paused away.
And there was a brief period of thathoneymoon period where everything was
going in the right direction, but theseother cost of characters took over.
And, you know, now you look 30 years backand you look at where the country's at.
And a lot of the stuff, I mean, ifyou think of, the economy, just the

(13:05):
infrastructure and systems that.
Most countries rely on,you know, transportation
trains and planes and roads.
You know, we have trains thatdon't even run anymore over there.
Right.
So it's like the infrastructurethat everybody depends on to get
this machine run up and running.

(13:26):
A lot of that is gone.
a lot of the systems have been destroyed.
I mean, South Africa used to be in thetop tier of gold producers in the world.
I don't even think they'rein the top 10 right now.
the production with, as far as diamonds,other natural resources, mining.
It's a very big industrythere that has suffered.

(13:47):
so the economy there, and of coursethe unemployment is out of control.
you have, massive wealth inequality,because the upward mobility there is
capped, In contrast, what I saw in theUnited States where, I always say people
that were born in the us you don't knowit yet, but like, you literally want
a lottery ticket because the upwardmobility compared to there is, night and

(14:10):
day here, there's nothing stopping you.
you have people that come from,public housing or projects, in
New York City like Damon John,that's, basically a billionaire.
That that's, that's a very, veryrare, Very, a very rare thing and
almost impossible in South Africa.
'cause even in in cities where there iswealth inequality, there is access to

(14:30):
services and systems and infrastructure,which they don't have there.
So that's led to a, you know,a lot of people leaving, and
going, going different places.
The taxation's also out of control.
So yeah, I mean, as far as freedomgoes, yeah, you have to be cognizant
of the control, the control that'sin place and that governments

(14:51):
most of them have, have out there.
They want to control thenarratives, they want to control
the media, the stuff that you read.
And they want to basically, own all ofthe information and control it so that
they can create the reality for you.
Right.
Especially in the past decade, I've seenin the United States, the opportunity
that exists here, if you apply yourselfand you bring your base talents and

(15:14):
your efforts and you work your butt off,the upward mobility is still unmatched.
I haven't found any other place inthe world that has the same upward
mobility, than the United States.
Yeah, as we traveled, there was aperiod of time, 10, 15 years ago
where my wife and I were traveling.
We did Australia, New Zealandwith something in the back of
our mind going, you know what?

(15:34):
We might leave the us.
Nah, the US is still, I. We gotissues and we'll talk about a
couple things here in just a second.
We've got issues.
I wanna say this though realquick about South Africa.
In fact, it's interesting.
I was in the hot tub lastnight here in our resort.
We're in with a gentleman who hada background, he's retired now.

(15:54):
Been the mining industry, and he hadspent some time in the gold industry.
He ran.
Those top operations in South Africa.
We had discussion about it.
I had met a guy from Tanzania whogave me some tanzanite years ago.
I didn't even know what it was.
I threw it in my shoe and wentthrough customs without even knowing
I had all this tanzanite with me.
But, I always thought, and I, and I dobelieve this about almost everywhere,

(16:20):
that there are beautiful places.
Resources and beautiful people almostanywhere, and I think that South Africa
has all of those in abundance, butyet they struggle to make that work.

(16:41):
The people there are incredible.
I mean, some of the most resilientpeople on the face of the planet.
The places are incredible.
the tour, just that with tourismalone, I mean, it should be a home run.
It should, I mean thatshould be the place to go to.
And you know, there's a number ofother South Africans that have that,

(17:03):
that have shared the same viewsthat, that I'm sharing right now.
Someone like Gary Player, the, the, thegolfer, it's been saying this for years.
He's like, we got everything here.
If we, if we find the right manner,and to put this all together.
It pa it'd be paradise, butthey just, they just haven't.

(17:23):
So, yeah, and, and of course, you know,it's been in the news lately that, you
know, there's a lot of, racial laws.
There's been a lot of raciallaws in place, you know,
too, by the way, for a while.
But it's just getting worse and worse.
and obviously, you know, when it wentfrom the apartheid regime over to the new
government, they had a new constitution.
It was a great constitution, youknow, it was something that was held

(17:44):
up to the rest of the world as look.
Look what they were able toaccomplish all parties, you know, were
involved in putting that together.
it was fantastic.
But ever since then, like I said, whenMandela was gone, the honeymoon was over
and it was just one racial law afteranother racial law that's been passed.
So you kind of have now, youknow, where you had one set

(18:05):
of racial laws on apartheid.
You have the exact same thing, but justthe opposite under the current government.
And that's causing a lot of troublefor investment and foreign investment.
And that's
Mm-hmm.
the things that Elon Musk talkedabout and just pointed out of
this, is what's actually going on.
obviously it made some headlinesand the US took some, made some

(18:26):
decisions of how to treat, a regimewith certain racial laws on the books.
And every, everybody's got a storyand everybody's story's unique, but.
You know, you mentioned opportunity isone of the reasons people come here, but
you know, obviously at the age of 22,23, 4 years ago, you made the decision.
Was it, was it your entire family?

(18:48):
Was it just Mc?
Tell me just a little bit of what it'slike to make a decision to leave the
country you've lived in, grown up in,et cetera, have probably have family
and roots and go somewhere different.
Just talk a little bit about that.
I don't, I think a lotof people don't grasp.
The massive decision makingthat's involved with that.

(19:09):
Yeah, I finished up university in SouthAfrica, and after that I traveled a bit.
I ended up in the US and, I endedup playing here in a rugby league,
up until 2007 When I was here thefirst couple of years, I said,
this is a fantastic opportunity.
I'm gonna play in the league.
I get to see the worldmeet some amazing people.
The rugby community isjust quite incredible.

(19:29):
You have everyone from lawyers,doctors, every phase of life, white
collar, blue collar, everythingis in a rugby team, right?
And a rugby club, whichmakes it so much fun.
but a great and great community.
So I traveled quite a bit around the USand as I, I was traveling, I just started
to see more and more opportunity and Istarted to see less and less opportunity,

(19:52):
you know, in South Africa and alsoother places that I was interested in.
Europe was already on a downlowback then, and this is, you
know, 20, 20 something years ago.
So I kind of looked at Europeand said, this is going headed
the completely wrong direction.
so, but you know, as I was traveling.
I did a lot of reading.

(20:12):
I, I was that guy on the team bus andthe team plane that grabbed a book,
studied up on, you know, some businessinvesting, reading about finance.
I started to get interested in thatand my mom had actually given me
Robert Kiyosaki's book, rich Dad,poor Dad, to Read, because they, at
that stage had a financial advisorand they were involved in a Ponzi

(20:33):
scheme or a Madoff scheme of whateveryou want to call it in South Africa.
Lost, the majority of their savings.
she had shared the book withme and said, you know what?
we've gone one directionin our life financially.
We don't have control,and we're hurt by this.
here's a book.
My mom read it at thatstage that I just read.
You should definitely read this'cause there might be another

(20:54):
path for you in, in doing this.
And I read the book and it completelychanged the way that I looked
at money, how I looked at wealthcapital, what it is, how it works.
massive paradigm shift.
and I actually took action andbought real estate, you know, six
months after reading the book.
So I took some of the moneythat I generated playing

(21:15):
sports and doing odd jobs.
And then I, I invested in, in realestate and, I bought the first
property, put some tenants in there,collected the rent, paid all the bills.
And I was like, wow, is, this is,this is just like in the book.
This is incredible.
How many times can I do this?
Because surprise, surprise, tenantssometimes don't pay their rent or they

(21:36):
pay late, or sometimes they, they damageyour property or they do both, you know?
So school started, it was, thatwas kind of like where that
part of the journey started.
And then I started to realize too, thatin the US it's funny that when people
live here, they have a different view ofjust where the US fits into the world.
Like there's, there's opportunities herefor business owners and for like investors

(22:00):
that you don't have in, any other places.
There's few places on the planet whereyou have a tax code that rewards people,
that build businesses, that solveproblems and value for the marketplace,
and also invest in things that otherpeople need or want, like affordable
housing and energy and, and so forth.
So, at that stage, you know,it was a decision, but.

(22:24):
South Africa at that stagewas going in a different
direction, the rest of the world.
And I'm like, well, where would I,where would I wanna position myself?
And eventually my family, which myentire family is still in South Africa,
except my sister, she's in Australia.
She married an Aussie.
so she lives just outside of Sydney.
So it was just me, you know, me,myself, and I, I always say, you

(22:46):
know, we gotta start somewhere.
So I came here with backpack, suitcase,couple hundred bucks, a sense of humor,
of adventure, and let's see wherethe, let's, let's see where this goes.
when I started my career on the investmentside and building that real estate
business, that to other opportunities,was quite remarkable, which I don't
think would've happened anywhere else.

(23:07):
So did you, is Megan an American girl?
Did you come here and,
She's
and, grab one of our women too?
Is that what I'm hearing?
That's right.
Yeah.
So she's American and, yeah, one ofthe things that really, played into
where I am today too was, throughthe rugby community because I was
interested in real estate and I wasreally unemployable at this stage too.

(23:29):
'cause I was playing sports, so I hadto do something on the side, so my thing
was like, okay, I'm gonna build this realestate company so I have something to
retire to when I'm done playing sports.
So I started building this real estatebusiness and through the rugby community,
somebody introduced me to another realestate investor and he is like, oh, I
heard you're interested in real estate.
And explained, oh, I was soexcited, this young buck, oh, I

(23:51):
just bought my first property.
And he's like, wait a minute.
So you already bought real estate?
And I said, yeah.
He goes, you know what, we have a largeportfolio of multi-family buildings.
whenever you have time, when youknow, when you're not on the road or
traveling, just jump in and, and comeand work at some of my buildings.
We'll, f we'll findsomething for you to do.
dad was one of the biggest gifts evertoo, because in the book, rich Dad Bored

(24:14):
Dad, says, the rich don't work for money.
They work to learn.
So I'm like, if I get paid 20bucks for a day, I, I don't care.
I'll be busy and I'lllearn something else.
So I started picking up trash ontheir multifamily bill, properties,
and eventually did like maintenance.
Did, was involved in apartment turnovers,paying painting, you know, inside.

(24:35):
and.
Eventually running construction crews,doing the leasing of the, buildings.
and then also eventually got my broker'slicense as part of acquisitions.
So it was such a gift at thatstage too, because I'm like, now
I look at a multi-family building.
I know exactly what goes onthere from top to bottom.
I know what happens during the day.
I know what happens during the weekends.

(24:57):
I know the type of complaints,I know the characters.
They all fall into certain categories.
You get 'em all in those buildings.
So it was, it was reallya gift, for later on.
But he also introduced meto, and he came from a very
wealthy family, and I had lunch.
We had these lunches where he wouldstop by, grab me, pick me up, and we
would have lunch and he would havehis CPA and his lawyer with him.

(25:20):
And this one day he had hisCPA, his lawyer and a life
insurance, professional with him.
And we had lunch and I had no idea whatthe life insurance guy I was doing there.
I know what the otherguys were doing there.
And one of the things that he thenshared with me afterwards, he said,
do you know what we kind of discussed?
I'm like, I kind of have an idea.
I know what the tax guy does.
He minimizes your taxes.

(25:41):
I know what the lawyer does.
He does all the legal structuringand you know, Mike, sure that you
guys are bulletproof, you know, fromcreditors and predators, but no idea
what the life insurance guy does.
he comes from a family, which waslike third generation legacy families.
So they had operating businesses.
He said, we generate money throughour operating businesses, then we

(26:02):
take all that money and we created ourown family bank with life insurance.
We put all of our money in that,then we leveraged that money.
Through a strategy like a bank,and then we use that money to buy
real estate, and that's all we do.
We keep it pretty simple.
And it confused me even morebecause his family was a shareholder

(26:24):
in a bank, a private bank.
And I said, I don't understand.
Like you have a bank, why wouldn'tyou put your money in the bank?
He goes, no, that's where otherpeople put their money in our bank.
And then we have a strategythere, but for our family bank,
put it all in life insurance.
And that led me to this path ofinfinite banking, which I then
incorporated with my real estate.

(26:45):
And I started to teachthat, to other people.
And then eventually it was funny, Ifound someone, a financial professional
that could set these up the way thatthey were supposed to be set up.
then I would send people to themand they would come back to me
and say, well, how do I use this?
So I'm like, the coachingpart is a pretty big part.
So that's when I eventually startedmy company Producer's Wealth.

(27:07):
teaching this, you know, in all 50 states.
virtually we did it in 2015virtually, which is another, story
of how we started to do that.
and then eventually I started the podcastCashflow Ninja just the following year
after that because I started having theseamazing conversations just with clients
generate income.

(27:28):
And I'm like, can I record this stuff?
And eventually they're like, yeah, sure.
I'm learning so much of like businessand how you generate income and how
you invest in multifamily, singlefamily, mobile home parks, fine
Scottish whiskey, how you buy anisland, like all these different things.
and then that's kind ofwhere that show, came from.

(27:49):
Well.
that's, that's
That's good.
when people have accessto capital, opportunities.
Present themselves to peoplethat are opportunistic.
I wanna back up just a little bit.
There's a couple of foundational thingsI wanna cover and then I'd like to talk
some strategies in the book and someother things here in just a second.
what was going on withyou around oh eight?

(28:10):
Tell me where you wereat, what was going on.
I don't know if that was as significantfor you as it was for others.
Maybe you were living lighter thansome other people were, but just gimme
a little bit of a. What was happeningwith mc in and around that time?
Yeah, so I was a real estateinvestor during that time.
I managed to survive,
Woo.

(28:30):
I always said it would be a muchbetter story if I tell everyone
that I lost everything and I gotblown out and built myself back up.
But, you know, I, I was verylight at that stage, so I
didn't have a ton of properties.
but what I also learned was I had anindividual that was, I looked at, you
know, like all these real estate meetups.

(28:51):
I went to meetups at that stage, and therewas an individual that was kind of like,
you know, he was the elder kind of thing.
I looked at him kind of as a mentor andhe was explaining as this was happening.
That, look, this is gonna bethe opportunity of a lifetime.
And this was in 2000 and, eight andthen beginning of 2009, you know,

(29:11):
and I was this young puppy justchomping at the bit, just ready to go.
So I actually jumped in and I bought stuffat the end of oh nine, beginning of oh 10.
So I was catching a falling knife, notlistening to him because he said, you
know, he's one of those, it's almost likethat meme with Mel Gibson and Braveheart.
He was like, hold, hold and then charge.

(29:34):
Right?
And I was the youngbuck that didn't listen.
That as he were saying, hold, hold, hold.
I was charging.
But that was a lesson in itself,and it wasn't that negative.
I could have just probably boughta lot more properties had I had
waited maybe one or two years,like a lot of those guys did.
the other thing that I wouldalso say is that I learned.

(29:54):
I was too young for the first big, biglike rug pool in 2000 with a.com bust.
that was kind of like, I, I wasn'tthere and I couldn't, I mean, I
was still in in university, so Ididn't really learn a lot from that.
But this was the first time that Isaw market cycle and the exuberance
that was going on, you know?

(30:16):
In the real estate game.
I mean, you were seeing people sellingcondos at that stage in Chicago and
driving Porsches and Ferraris, like realestate agents like that are 25 years old.
It was insane.
The exuberance, the froth, the, Imean, now I'm like, if I, if I take
mc of today to back then I'd belike, oh, this is the biggest market

(30:38):
to, this thing's gonna be ugly.
That was, that's what I would be thinking.
But at that stage I was like,oh, this is pretty cool.
but learned a lot of that first bigmarket cycle and the things that I saw.
I, and I mean like you.
same thing for you, the things thatyou probably saw and experienced.
I don't think people can just fathom it.

(31:01):
You know, I, I've seen the run up,in real estate in multifamily and
the other asset classes from 2012.
So I would say like the end of 22when the massive interest rates
spikes came, that was a little bitof a rug pool for a lot of people.
But for 10 years you had a runwhere people that have never been
involved in this, in, in investingor in the game, they couldn't lose.

(31:25):
So nobody understood what it lookedlike to lose, but when it, when when
you're losing, it's, it's bankruptcies,it's divorces, it's it suicides, I
mean it's, it's, it's, it is ugly.
Capitalized on a, on a scale, Idon't think that people can fathom.
I did have some, but I
Mm-hmm.
you know, I learned a lotof lessons during that time,

(31:48):
that I've continued to apply.
You know, I'll give you an example.
The last time I saw exuberance, like Isaw real estate agents driving Porsches
and Ferrari selling condos in the cityof Chicago was the crypto Super Bowl.
You know, the Super Bowl where youhad Larry David on FTX commercials
saying, oh, it'll never work out.
You had Matt Damon questioning yourmanhood if you don't buy crypto on,

(32:12):
whatever platform he was advertising.
the entire Super Bowl was justcrypto, crypto, crypto in la
which there was, I mean, it's justcrypto advertisements everywhere.
And I looked at this and I'm like, thisis just like those 25-year-old real
estate agents driving forces and Ferraris.
This is exactly it.

(32:33):
And it became pretty ugly after that.
Yep.
so that's gonna help us lead into alittle bit more specific conversation.
I wanna go back to somethingyou use to describe yourself.
You said you're a truth seeker andone of the things that I think I
would put myself in that category too,
I don't know if I'm as much a truthseeker or that I hate to be deceived.

(32:58):
Those are related, butthey're slightly different.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so one of the things I wanna bringup as we start moving into speaking
about, some more specific strategiesand some things like that, some
things you talked about in your book.
I actually believe that there is massivedeception going on at the macro level.

(33:20):
We could talk a little bit about that.
You know, in the US we're twoplus months into a new president.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
I don't care which side you're on,there's a lot of stuff going on.
I want to talk about macrodeception that's out there.
We know it is.
But there's a statement that Isay to myself often, MC, and the

(33:43):
statement goes something likethis, thou shall not fool thyself.
I believe that micro bias anddeception is, I think they're related.
We can't separate 'em out,
Yep.
but I think most people start foolingthemselves and part of our journey is

(34:05):
getting to a place where we could discern.
What's going on at that macro levelso we could weed out some junk and
not be deceived and not be broughtinto the Ponzi schemes, the get rich
quick things and weed through stuff.
See what makes sense for us.
And that's what I want to prefacethat question with as we lead into
talking about what people need to do.

(34:27):
Because I think they need to beable to discern what we're saying.
I think people need to beable to listen in and go, you
know what, that mc guy's good.
I need to research a little bit of this.
Maybe get his book.
And Tim, you know, we've listenedto him some, but yeah, I don't know.
I don't believe everything he says either.
So talk a little bit about deception.
Macro, micro, whatever you wanna talkabout, because I think it's important

(34:50):
for people to do that before they startmoving into some specific strategies.
Perfect.
Ma, on a macro scale, big pictureright now, you think about, what
is happening in the United States.
you have a new administration, theTrump administration's coming in.
They created the Department ofGovernment Efficiency that's led

(35:11):
by Elon Musk, regardless of whereyou are on the political front,
Both of these individuals have beendescribed by media all over the place.
Left, right center, you pickit the two biggest disruptors.
In business, probably in our lifetime.

(35:33):
so regardless of what you thinkof, of Donald Trump, if you look
at at, at just his career and hishistory, what he did in real estate
and what he was able to accomplishthere, and then going into other
different industries like reality tv.
Reality TV was never the sameagain after The Apprentice.
probably one of the top ratedshows of reality shows of all time.

(35:56):
he changed the game.
so whatever industry has goneinto latest politics, politics
will never be the same again.
You cannot put this genieback into the bottle.
People thought that, politics changedwith how, Barack Obama introduced social
media and help him, in his campaign.
What, what, what Trump or Donald Trumpdid is he just, he just took this a

(36:19):
hundred x with, through his strategy.
So it'll, it'll never be the same.
You can't put the genieback in the bottle.
And it's the same thing with Musk, ElonMusk, whether you know, South African,
whether it's electric cars, whetherit's payment processing systems, the
PayPal, which he started at, then
Space
electric cars spaceexploration, the boring company.

(36:43):
So now you have, in charge of the biggesteconomy, the most powerful on the face
of the, the world, two of the biggestdisruptors in charge of this economy.
And so You're gonna see disruptionat a scale, I don't think,
which you have experienced.
And that's what we're inthe process of right now.

(37:04):
There's a lot of outrage media,'cause that's the media cycle now.
Everybody has to be outraged onboth sides to get attention be.
How do you get attention insuch a crazy environment?
You almost have to, I, I mean, you haveto do crazy things just to get attention.
So you're getting a lot of disruption.
And the United States, if youthink about a big picture.

(37:24):
Especially, this has beencoming for a while, by the
way, in, in the past 20 years.
But I would say bef prior to, theTrump administration coming back into
office, the, the administra, the Bidenadministration, before that you already
had a massive government and they justkept adding the size of government.
It just kept expanding and expanding.
And you had all these ecosystems, Icall it, around government, whether it's

(37:49):
NGOs, whether it's defense contractors,whether it is also big pharma.
These are ecosystemsthat's part of that system.
it just got bigger and bigger under theprevious administration exponentially.
So much so that if you look at thejobs that were added, and this is the
deception going on, big picture, thateverything was added in government.

(38:10):
The private sector and small businesseshave been suffering and have actually shed
a lot of jobs and a lot of people, Stopbeing employed by small businesses, and
it was all added back onto the government.
So government just startedgetting bigger and bigger.
And now you're getting into very,very dangerous territory because
if the government is the maindriver of your economy, you a

(38:31):
free market economy at that stage?
Are you living in a capitalist society?
If the government, what the governmentdoes and spend dictates your entire
economy, so what's going on right now.
You've got disruption and you'vegot, two very focused individuals.
It's another thing, regardlessof who you are at there are laser

(38:52):
focused, and when they have theirmind, to doing and accomplishing
something, they're gonna go after it.
So that's why you're
One.
got a lot of.
One thing related to that before wemove on to maybe more micro and how
people's internal minds, many people,obviously I think you and I probably get

(39:13):
excited a little bit about disruption.
Regardless of where you're at,I'm going, man, this has needed
to be busted up for a long time.
I don't care where you are.
I mean, I'm more libertarian probablyif I were to be pinned down, smaller
government, less government, you know,get out of our way, that type thing.
But there are massive numbersof people that don't want things

(39:34):
to change or be disrupted.
I doubt they're still listeningin, but speak to that for just a
second before you go into the microdeception and all that can go on
Yeah.
If you think about the wealthtransfer that has happened in the
past years, let's, I mean, youcould pick different segments.

(39:55):
Let's pick one segment.
The wars.
There's a reason you have had wars thatnever, ever stop, it's money laundering.
It's literally money laundering.
You're laundering money.
From the government to defensecontractors, which then, by the way,
a lot of the people that consult andlobby the government, they are all
owners or benefactors from all of this.

(40:18):
So there's a lot of money at stake.
There's so much money at stake, you know,on the pharmaceutical side, big pharma.
That's why you had.
People that took a family, theKennedy family has been the
darlings of the Democratic party.
Literally.
I mean, it's like the royalty.
And you had RFK Jr come in and I mean, hewas per persona, non gra books for coming

(40:43):
in because he's also going, you know, heis going to disrupt that flow of capital,
which is the government, again, launderingmoney to pharmaceutical companies.
for lack of a better term, it'scontracts, but it's essentially
just laundering money from, from onepiece of the economy over to another.
And Rich, a a whole bunch of people that.

(41:03):
Is all in the, in the same place.
So people don't want anything to changebecause they want things to stay exactly
the same because everybody's had it.
So good.
And think about it, it has been easystreet for a while for a lot of people.
But if you are not in thatecosystem or in any of these
ecosystems, what have you seen?

(41:24):
You've seen inflation, which by theway, that's also deception and a lie.
inflation has been in themid twenties, 25 to 26%.
Why would I say that there?
Well, there's an AI tool for that.
Tru ifl, is an AI tool that canactually tell you the true inflation.
And from 2020 to where we aretoday, you're on 25, 20 6%.

(41:50):
That's where, and, and, and you know,it's funny when you say that to the
average person on the street or peoplethat we talk to, they look at you and
they go, yeah, that sounds about right.
That's what I experience when I gobuy food or grow to the grocery store.
Or things are on average,probably about 25 to 30% more.
But yet the government will tell you,oh, inflation's around two to 3%.

(42:11):
Right?
Which is, which is, which is madness.
So that's another big thing.
And what else has people seen?
They've seen the wealth inequality, whichof PE is concerning to a lot of people.
You want a healthy, thriving middleclause and you would have, if there
wasn't these games played, big pictureand these ecosystems, but you've seen

(42:31):
a hollowing out of the middle class.
More and more people arefalling out of the middle class.
look, we were ripe for disruption.
Sometimes as an entrepreneur anda business owner, you look at
industries that you're like, oh, thisshould so be disrupted right now.
It doesn't provide any value.
That's a lot of these systems that Imentioned and this is what's happening.

(42:52):
AI is coming into this too, right?
So you have a massive disruptor likeAI coming in, which is gonna replace
a lot of the functions that are justrepetitive, you know, repetitive
jobs, which a lot exist in government.
I'll just comment quicklyon the global environment.
What you're also seeing is that theUS has kind of taken a back step as

(43:14):
the superpower, the main superpower,and they are reasserting themselves.
So when you see these, news headlinesof, you know, the Panama Canal.
Was in the news.
that was a big one.
Greenland is now like in, in, in the news.
So why are all these things in the news?
If we go back, you know, to the bebeginning of our conversation, the number

(43:36):
one job of a military, of a superpower isto protect and facilitate global trade.
And these were all bottlenecks thatthey kind of let go or, you know,
who knows what the story is behindthat one can speculate, but the
reality is that the US no longerhad control over those bottlenecks.
So they're reasserting that and that'salso causing some global disruption,

(44:00):
you know, with tariffs and so forth.
I think that, one of the things thatI'm concerned about, especially looking
back at Covid, maybe even going backto oh eight, going back to 2000,
I am concerned that as a culture.
This spills down to the individual mc thatwe've lost our ability to evaluate risk.

(44:22):
we can't look at numbers correctly,maybe because of all the deception
or maybe we've been programmed,and I think that's important.
I'd like to drive this conversation forour last few minutes down to average.
Joe, I, I wanna speak overthe next 10 plus minutes.
Specifically to average Joe.

(44:43):
'cause he, he might be seeing allthis stuff on the news and he's
sitting his head swimming going,what the heck does that mean for me?
You know, the stock market up and downand you know, we just mentioned some
things with insurance and alternativeinvestments and I, you know, I enjoy
crypto and gold and all, all these kindof stuff, but I think what a lot of

(45:06):
people have is they have a, probably asmall amount of money or a small job.
And they really have adesire to protect that.
and I don't know that they reallyunderstand risk, which means
evaluating and, doing things like that.
So, I know I just threw a numberof things at you, but what I'd
love for us to do is start talking.

(45:27):
To average, Joe, what does averageJoe need to be looking at right now?
Where does he need tobe getting information?
What does he need to ignore and what doeshe need to pay attention to right now?
Because there's a bunch of junk out there,so what would you, and you know what?
They're not gonna study it like you,so I think we need to admit that.
And so talk to someone who'sstill hanging out with us here.

(45:50):
what do they need to do to kindaget, where can they, how can
they cut through all this crap?
Yeah, so what the, the advice that Iwould give to folks too is, like you said,
determining risk is very hard right now.
'cause there's such a deception going on.
Let's use the stock market for example.
There's a, there's a, the terminologyor concept called the buffet indicator.

(46:11):
And the buffet indicator looksat the size of the stock market
in relation to the US economy.
Now, currently the stockmarket is basically twice
the size as the US economy.
So what does that mean?
That means in layman's terms, if you'rebuying a house and the house is worth
$250,000 and you, you're gonna buy thehouse from me, but I said, you know what?

(46:35):
The house is actually worth $500,000.
You should buy the housefrom me for $500,000.
okay, well, one, no onewould take that trade ever.
You wouldn't buy a $250,000 housefor $500,000, but yet that's exactly
what people are doing right now.
If you are using the buffetindicator of the stock market.

(46:57):
Hence why Buffet has gone fromchasing yields to just protecting.
And if you look at his cash positions,he's sitting in the, at Berkshire
Hathaway, and he is selling off differentdivisions too, by the way, which he knows.
this is the top, youknow, of a massive bubble.
so he's selling off a lot of divisionsof Berkshire Hathaway, a lot of the

(47:20):
different companies, and he is justpositioning cash and holding onto cash.
So for the average person, you know, justthe stock, the stock market is overvalued.
It's probably, there's a lot ofdifferent markets that are overvalued.
so finding value in this world right nowis very hard and with a lot of disruptions
that are coming, this is protection mode.

(47:41):
So I would say spend lessthan you consume number one.
That's the number one.
Number two.
Buy yourself first.
Put away 10, 15, 20, 30% ofyour capital as much as you
can and just accumulate cash.
Crypto will also get hit with disruption.
I still think crypto is gonnado very, very well, but don't be

(48:02):
surprised if the crypto market getscut in half at some point in time.
this is not a negative against crypto.
It's very liquid, very easy to selloff when you need money, Right.
and then gold and silver.
that's been money for centuries.
being from South Africa, the homeof the Kruger you're not gonna
have to convince me about gold.
I love gold and silver.

(48:22):
I think that's gonna be money forcenturies and has been for centuries.
But the big thing right now, theaverage person can do is spend
less than you consume, accumulateas much cash as possible.
Sit tight because you know, think about.
Trying to get six to 12 months ofyour household expenses just saved.
And if you're a businessowner, same thing.

(48:44):
You know, save as much cash as you can.
Build a system.
You know that we talk about theinfinite banking system where you
become the banker for your business.
So you could set up lifeinsurance contracts to do that.
And you never have to go intoa bank begging ever again.
You have your own banking system.
so that's what I would recommendfor the average person.

(49:04):
The average business owner is now'sthe time for efficiency and just
accumulating and putting away cash.
If you think about, what Doge isdoing in the US economy, think about
doing a Doge in your own household.
You know, your personal economyand your business economy.
Try to be as efficient as possible.
Cut back on areas that are maybea little bit of an overkill.

(49:29):
and just accumulate cash.
'cause that's gonna come in handy for you.
So if you have a few kids, maybe consider.
Farming them out anddoing something like that.
Put.
is that what you're saying?
Did I hear
It'd be nice if they could start, youknow, earning their keep and All right.
That would be a good thing.
no, I, I, I actually think I. The peoplethat are keeping their head clear are

(49:55):
going to be positioning themselves, thepeople that are reading books, like we'll
talk about here in just a second beforewe finish up, get wealthy for sure.
Maybe listening in here, listening overat Cashflow Ninja that are, that are
pursuing things, not living in that.
I mean, listen, you couldspend every bit of your time.

(50:16):
Listening to all the gory detailsabout what, what's happening
in Washington DC right now.
As for me, I've got some otherstuff that I need to do and I
don't need my head clear, you know?
I know what's going on.
I don't need to listen topeople talk about it and all.
So that brings up a quick questionbefore we talk about the book

(50:38):
and kinda start wrapping here.
Where do you get some of your information?
And where do you recommend average Joe?
Stay away from and gather informationbecause he can't talk to you all the time.
They could listen to our podcast,which I think is a great thing.

(50:58):
But, where do you get your info?
You know, there's some,uh, it's very, very hard.
Number one, there's, there's somenew sources that you can follow.
zero Hedge is one of them that I follow.
Just like, look at a daily,just, it just gives you the big
headlines for the day kind of thing.
I also, organized my Twitter.
X as it goes by now, just toget the news headlines quickly.

(51:20):
And I scroll through and I coulddo that all in five minutes a day.
But really where I've found alot of value is paid newsletters.
that's the one thing that, you know,everybody likes the free information, but
you're the product with free information.
Just remember that.
So a lot of new newsletters, I subscribeto, just to kind of get to the bottom
of what's actually going on, gettingsome deep, thought provoking analysis

(51:43):
of global events, the global economy,the US economy, where things are headed.
But yeah, I'm the same as you.
I spend about five minutes lookingat the headlines because I also look
at the news headlines like this,this is what they want everybody
else to believe is happening.
it is good to understand what theaverage person, the average person's per

(52:04):
perceptive of what is actually happening.
'cause that's what theywant you to believe.
What's in the news headlines.
So it's kind of good to get thosetoo, just to kind of know what's
the national conversation like orthe international conversation.
Get wealthy for sure.
The number one financial strategy forbusiness owners to multiply wealth.
Wealth predictably.
I did two turn downs in here.

(52:24):
One turn down you said specifically,this is a book about using whole
life insurance policy with mutualinsurance company to store your
excess capital, become your own bank.
And then I kinda liked the,portion over here where you
talk about the family offices.
tell me why the book, what it's about,and where people can get it, and all
of that as we're wrapping up here.

(52:45):
Yeah, so most people talk, the, theworld right now and news headlines
again, which is very crazy.
But it's all about get gettingrich quick and I've been
looking for that for 25 years.
I haven't found it.
If you do find it, please reach out to meand let me know where I can find it too.
But I don't see anythingas a get rich quick.
The only way to build true, sustainable,multi-generational wealth is through

(53:08):
discipline and following proven systems.
So in the book I talk about the getwealthy for sure financial strategy,
which is the number one I. financialstrategy for business owners to multiply
their wealth predictably, that systemhas a track record of 170 years.
It's something that I'vepersonally done for 15 years.

(53:29):
It takes discipline, resilience, andsetting up a smarter system, working
smart and hard simultaneously for you.
in the book, I just share how you couldset up your very own banking system
for yourself, your business, also yourfamily, and then I get into the components
of what are some of the secrets of theRockefellers, how do they use this, and

(53:52):
how do they maximize their family bank?
and you can too.
You don't have to be a Rockefellerto do what the Rockefellers do.
So I talk about how to createlegacy assets for your family, how
to set up tax, legal and insurancestructures, how to create a family
bank just like the Rockefellers.
how to manage assets like billionaires.

(54:13):
There's a spoiler alert.
They actually look at a hundredyears or more when they invest.
they pick, you know, 10 or fewer areasof investment and they stick with it.
and then also how to do familymasterminds, just like the
Rockefellers and the Rothchildfamilies 'cause that's the glue that
keeps the family kind of together.
But in the book, you know, Italk about the strategy, which

(54:35):
I call the get wealthy for sure.
So I'd rather do the, get wealthyfor sure than the get rich quick.
And if people want a copy of the book,they could go to get wealthy for sure.
Dot com.
Right now we're doing an offerwhere, when you request a Piper back
book, we'll ship the book for you.
The book's for free.
You just pay for theshipping and handling.
And at the Get Wealthy for sure.com link,there's also videos of where we do deep

(54:59):
dives and strategy showing you exactlyhow this actually works for those that are
interested in, you know, diving into it.
and there's also a link if you wannaset up a call with myself and my team
and explore options for yourself, you'llbe able to book a call with us there.
It's at Get Wealthy for Sure.
Dot com.
I'm sure you're going deep into a lotof this stuff over at Cashflow Ninja.

(55:19):
Tell us briefly about that.
Yeah, so Cashflow Ninja is,my podcast and we have, over a
thousand shows@cashflownja.com.
And we've covered over 120 different,cashflow investment niches.
You know, everything frommultifamily mobile home parks to
fine Scottish whiskey, how to buy anisland, you know, it's everything.

(55:42):
And we have gone everywhere,literally everywhere.
It's funny.
You know, I always put out an emailto, if you know about something
that I haven't covered, let me know.
and we still get a couple of those,but, you know, all those information
is available at cash loan engine call.
How, how to make money whiletraveling around the country in an rv.
How about that one?
Let's, There you go.

(56:02):
That'll be a good one.
Hey, final question.
I'd love for you to do this for us.
We've talked about a lot ofbig stuff, a lot of big topics.
I think it's been light for some people,but maybe could have been burdensome.
Just kind of as a last comment here,mc, just encourage somebody that
might just be kind of overwhelmed.
We know they need to pick up the bookand maybe go listen to other things, but

(56:23):
just give somebody some encouragement.
If they're looking out there going,man, I don't know how I'm gonna
get my act together financially.
There's just too much going on.
Give them a good wordto make 'em feel good.
Yeah.
A lot of the media and informationyou receive about finance
and money, it's all terrible.

(56:43):
It's not designed for you and it'sdesigned to confuse you, to get you a
kind of slightly, feeling depressed.
'cause you're like, I don't evenunderstand what they're saying.
They don't want you tounderstand what they're saying.
What they want you to do is just cometo them and give them your money.
So I'm, if you're listening tothis and you go, I don't know how

(57:06):
to do this, it seems complicated.
I will tell you that, a farm boy fromSouth Africa can figure this out.
And I know I spent a lot of time with it,but it doesn't have to be complicated.
It's actually very, verysimple if you think about it.
And when you actually try to get advice,try to get advice from people that
will explain it to you in the most.

(57:27):
Simplest manner, easily understandable.
You know, I try to explain things sothat my kids can understand it, right?
And they're eight and six.
So, it doesn't have to be complicated.
You just start where you're at,spend less than what you make.
Number one, consume a little bit less.
Start building that nest egg.
Start putting money away and beforeyou know it, you will have enough

(57:48):
capital to start, you know, maybecreate your own banking system.
every day the move in theright direction, doing little
things will compound over time.
it does with your health.
It does with money, itdoes with good habits.
It'll compound over time.
And, within 12 to 18 months, you'll haveno idea how you even got to where you are.
But you would be in acompletely different situation.

(58:10):
I. That's good.
and I wanna remind people, not just afarm boy from South Africa, but MCs a
rugby player, which probably means he'staken some hits to the head over the
course of his I've seen some rugby man.
100%
correct.
No pads.
These folks get beat to a pulp mc Lobster.
Thank you so much.
The book is Get Wealthy for Sure.

(58:32):
Here's a copy for those people whomight be watching it on YouTube.
We'll include some links down below.
Also links over to, CashflowNinja, thank you for joining us.
C I've loved this conversation.
We've, had some great conversationsabout all that's going on in the world.
I think it's been helpful to peoplejust to hear two guys riff on that.
We are seek go create here.
We've got new episodes every Monday.

(58:52):
Make sure you're tuned in andcommenting over on YouTube,
on all the podcast platforms.
We love having conversations likethis just to share what's going on.
And as, uh, MC said earlier,he's a truth seeker.
We are seek go create.
That fits right into that.
We'll see you next week.

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