July 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Have you ever felt like the Bible just doesn’t make sense, no matter how many sermons you’ve heard or scriptures you’ve read? In this eye-opening episode of Seek Go Create, host Tim Winders invites you to “choose the red pill” and step outside the matrix of tradition to truly understand the Bible. Tim shares his personal journey of deconstructing decades of doctrine, challenging deeply ingrained beliefs, and finding new clarity by studying scripture in historical context. If you’re ready to question what you’ve always been taught and discover a fresh perspective on faith, this episode is your invitation to dig deeper.
"Sometimes the greatest act of faith is to let go of our answers so that we can hear God." - Tim Winders
Access all show and episode resources HERE
Reasons to Listen:
- Unpack the Matrix Analogy: This episode draws compelling parallels between understanding the Bible and stepping outside "the Matrix," urging listeners to question long-held beliefs and discover deeper truths.
- Explore Deconstruction in Faith: Tim shares his personal journey through Bible school and beyond, revealing why "deconstructing" religious doctrine is not about destruction, but about seeking authentic understanding.
- Unlock New Ways to Read the Bible: Learn why reading the Bible in chronological and historical context can radically change your perspective, making once-confusing passages suddenly make sense.
Key Lessons:
- Deconstruction is Growth, Not Destruction - Deconstructing faith doesn’t have to be a negative process—it’s about asking questions, letting go of handed-down beliefs, and seeking truth for ourselves. This is a journey of digging deeper and stepping outside of traditional paradigms to truly understand the Bible.
- Context is Everything - Understanding who wrote the Bible, when, and to whom it was addressed is essential. Reading Scripture in historical and chronological order can unlock powerful insights and clarify confusing passages that may otherwise seem out of place.
- Beware of Fitting Scripture to Personal Beliefs - There’s a real temptation to use the Bible to justify our own political, cultural, or religious positions. Tim encourages listeners to let Scripture guide our beliefs instead of molding Scripture to fit our preferences or social dogmas.
- Slowing Down Allows Spiritual Clarity - Distraction is the enemy of understanding. Taking intentional time to slow down, pause, and reflect can clear away mental clutter and help us approach the Bible with fresh eyes and a surrendered heart.
- Learning Means Unlearning - Genuine progress often involves admitting what we don’t know—and even unlearning what we thought we understood. It can feel unsettling, but it’s freeing and necessary for deeper transformation and spiritual maturity.
Episode Highlights:
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
00:35 Deconstructing Doctrines and Beliefs
03:31 Personal Journey and Background
06:30 Deep Study and New Insights
09:01 Reading the Bible in Context
10:36 Challenges with Modern Interpretations
15:50 The Importance of Unlearning
28:44 Conclusion and Next Steps
Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:
🎙 Unlock Leadership Excellence with Tim
- Transform your leadership and align your career with your deepest values. Schedule your Free Discovery Call now to explore how you can reach new heights in personal and professional growth. Limited slots available each month – Book your session...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
Tim Winders here.
Welcome to episode two of theseason that I'm calling, why The
Bible Doesn't Make Sense yet.
And just so you know, I've kindof titled these internally.
I don't know if it's the full titlethis is going to be, but this is called
Choosing the Red Pill, stepping Outsidethe Matrix to really understand.
(00:22):
The Bible.
So yeah, we'll be using some matrixreferences here and just wanna remind
you, if you haven't, circle backto episode one, circle back there,
and you'll kind of understand kindof how things are flowing here.
The theme of this episode is, we'regonna use this word deconstructing.
But don't let that bother you.
(00:43):
It's really just asking questions.
It's figuring things out.
It's learning more, it's going deeper.
It's seeking, which is all about, what wedo here at Seek GoCreate, we'll use the
word deconstructing decades of doctrineto kind of use some alliteration there.
Letting go of what I was taughtso I could really discover.
(01:06):
What was true?
And yes, that involves somedeconstruction, some thinking
differently, thinking outside the box,stepping outside the matrix so that
you can really see what's going on.
And so that's why we're going to usethat analogy here as we talk about the
journey that I've been on, that I'vebeen trying to figure out how to share.
And, just trying to do itin this five episodes that
(01:29):
we're gonna be talking about.
you know, when we think we understandthe Bible, but we really don't and
when it doesn't make sense, but youwon't admit it, and things like that.
So anyway, if you listen toepisode one, you know, we're
starting with a big vision.
I really wanted to start with.
The end in mind with episode one withthe vision, peace instead of pressure.
(01:52):
But there was a process that I hadto go through to kind of get to that
understanding I had to, had to gothrough a lot of getting rid of what
I thought I knew to get to a placewhere I could understand what was true.
And let me just tell you, there'sa real cloudiness that goes
on with that, with a lot of.
Our religion and what we're taughtand our paradigms and stuff like that.
(02:15):
And I'm not pretending that I've arrivedthere yet, but I feel confident that
I'm in a better place than I was a yearago, two years ago, five years ago.
Definitely 10 years ago.
So.
the big question is what if, what youknow about the Bible is what's keeping
you from truly understanding it?
(02:37):
You know, many of us have been throughyears and years of preaching, teaching,
and listening to people and thingslike that, and that's not a bad thing.
But it starts getting into our headshere and it starts creating some
thoughts that may or may not be true.
And then we add that with theway we were raised or the PA part
(02:58):
of the world that we live in.
I'm in America and verywesternized and we've had ways of.
Thinking about things that aren'talways bad, but they can be.
They can keep us from understandingwhat's outside of that matrix
that we might have been living in.
so one of the things that we oftenhave to do is to recognize what it is.
(03:21):
That we think air quotes here, we knowand maybe step back from that so that we
could really understand the, the truth.
Now, I've given my background before,but I want to just quickly walk
through a few things to kind of get anunderstanding of where, where I was.
I really didn't grow up in church.
(03:41):
I didn't go to church everyweek or anything like that.
We kind of popped in on holidays.
But I grew up in the deep south, inthe Atlanta area, the Bible Belt.
And so bible thinkingreligion was all around it.
You could not get away from it if you,grew up in that part of the country.
(04:03):
and then I believed that Ihad a salvation experience.
I know I had a salvation experience backin the early nineties, 90, late 90, 91.
And so for that period of time nowgoing on, is that 35 years losing count?
I've been asking questions.
I mean, I've been trying to study,I've been wrestling with scripture,
I've been reading through this book.
(04:23):
That is the Bible.
That is the word of God.
For some time went to, some churches, somewould've been considered word of faith.
You know, where you speakit, you name it, claim it.
Some would've been consideredprosperity Gospel, where they
believe that this Bible is a ticketto getting what it is you want.
all the good stuff in life.
(04:45):
I'm not very accurate.
You could probably tell by the wayI'm saying that also, just spent a
lot of time reading it, but I don'tknow that I read it in proper context.
We'll get to that shortly I wouldlisten to preaching teaching and things
like that, but I don't know that I.
Totally put it in theperspective that I needed to.
(05:05):
Maybe I was just trying to take it and addit to my layer of what I thought success
was so that I could continue buildingupon what I, and how I define success.
I'm not sure I'm the only onethat's ever done that, but,
that's kind of the way I did.
But it ended up in Bible school in 2015and my wife and I were thinking, this is
(05:26):
going to be so incredible 'cause we'regonna be hanging out with Christians
and people that are studying theBible and they're gonna be powerhouse
people and it is gonna be incredible.
I actually earned what's called amaster's in biblical studies from there,
and let me just tell you what I foundout that most of the teaching there
(05:46):
were just what I would call canned.
Answers, just quick snippets, pullingscripture out of context to just
fit what we're doing in our modernlife, or in some situations it's
actually just to fit into the systemor structure that they believed in.
This was a non-denominational school, butthere was a man, a person that had started
(06:09):
it, and so everything sort of had to.
Fit into that man's belief systemand his doctrine and they, there
was some good things about it.
I enjoyed being around the people and allof that, but, I can tell you that they
had some baked in thoughts and ideas that,that were not necessarily healthy either.
So all of that.
(06:30):
All of that to say that during my timein Bible school, this would've been like
2016 or 17, going on seven years later,from the time that I'm recording this,
I started doing a deep study on the.
Kingdom of God in Matthew 6 33.
Jesus says, seek yefirst the kingdom of God.
(06:52):
I was wanting to do some studyingon my own outside of what was going
on and what was being fed to usin that Bible school environment.
And so I started studying that thing thatJesus said to seek first, and it really
opened my eyes to the bigger picture.
I went through every scripturethat mentioned the kingdom of God.
I went through and dug into and handwrote them out and, you know, studied
(07:16):
the Greek words and meditated on them.
Just really allowing, I believethe Holy Spirit to lead and
guide me through revealing.
What the kingdom of God was.
This thing that Jesus saidhe brought, he brought the
kingdom of God into this earth.
(07:37):
And so, that was a big steppingpoint for me, a big I. I guess a big
part of the journey was me learningmore about the Kingdom of God.
I don't fully grasp it totally.
If anyone says they do, I canguarantee you they don't know
what they're talking about.
But, I understood itmore than I did before.
(07:58):
Later I went through and my wifeGloria, was doing this, but I
actually went through reading theBible over the course of a year.
In chronological order.
Now, I had read the Bible through,but I had never read it in order.
I will tell you that reading the Biblein chronological order of the timeframe
(08:22):
that the events happened or that theywere believed to have happened will
impact your perspective definitely inthe Old Testament in a tremendous way.
Because, I mean, I just had a lot ofstuff jumbled up and did not understand
timelines and how things fit together.
I had been reading the Bible okay.
It wasn't as if I wasjust a casual Christian.
(08:45):
I had been reading it and I hadgone through Bible school, but I did
not understand how those pieces fittogether of how the prophets and how
the kings and the nation of Israel and.
All of that fit.
I did not understand that untilI read it chronologically.
To fast forward over the last fewyears, what I've done is I've immersed
(09:07):
myself in first century historyand culture to really understand
who wrote the New Testament.
What they were going throughand who they wrote it to.
You know, we throw these words aroundlike, oh, you need to read it in context.
(09:28):
And I've done that myself, andI've seen other people do that.
But then when I listen to what I usedto say and also what other people say.
I still don't think we fully getthe context of what was going on.
We really, I believe, have to digin more to what was going on in that
(09:51):
New Testament timeframe, which I'lltalk about more in the next episode.
But it's really this timeframe betweena 30, about the time that Jesus.
Finished his earthly ministry andwent to the cross and was resurrected
up to 80 70, which a significantevent occurred there, which was the
(10:13):
destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
We'll talk more about that later, butthat timeframe, we really, as Christians
need to understand it so that we couldmaybe step out of the matrix that we live
in, in currently recording this in 2025.
To kind of understand a biggerpicture that, went on historically.
(10:36):
Okay, so here's a few problemswith some of the theologies or the
programming or the dogmas that we have.
We've got these doctrines, we've gotthese dogmas, we've got these paradigms.
That cause us to read scripture andtry to make the scripture work with
(10:58):
what we think instead of allowingthe scripture to lead and guide.
We've got these filters, we'vegot these ways that we look at it.
I'll tell you one way we really see itin our current world again, this 2025.
And that is where people will takescripture and try to make their
political beliefs, their politicalsystem work with scripture.
(11:21):
And I'm just gonna go ahead andbust up something right here.
And I've got definite political, I leancertain ways politically, but we've got to
disconnect that from the way we look at.
Things in the Bible because I canguarantee you, especially for those
in the United States where we'vegot two political basically sides.
(11:43):
We've got a Republican and a Democraticparty, we've got what we call a left.
We call it a right.
I don't think that's really a goodexample, but, I can guarantee you
that I could take this Bible, thisholy scripture, and I could find,
I could pluck out scriptures.
That could justify political.
(12:04):
Hot buttons, political ideas,political ideologies that
would back up both systems.
The left, right Republican or Democrat.
And some of you're saying, no, no, no,the Bible is this way or is that way.
No, I could guarantee you that.
I could find examples like that.
So we have to be really careful about.
(12:25):
Making the Bible fitour political beliefs.
That's a whole nother topic Idon't wanna get into, but it could
be part of something that wasbothering me along this journey.
What we were seeing going on politically,I. We are taught what to believe
before learning how to read in context.
In other words, we go to churches, welisten to people, we go online and we hear
(12:52):
things, and then we will go to the Bibleto try to find things that back up what we
believe instead of the other way around.
The other way around is take the time.
To really be still and quiet and get intothis scripture, get into this Bible so
(13:13):
that the Bible, the word of God, reallyspills over into who we are instead of
who we are trying to justify what it is.
plucking out some scripturesand so what we do, it ends up.
we accept certain things.
We skip over certain things.
We twist things.
I mean, I've got an example right nowon a Facebook post that I did where
(13:36):
someone I went to bible school tooka scripture and put it in the comment
as if it fit that post that I did,but it was not in context at all.
They're taking something that waswritten to an audience 2000 years ago
and trying to say it applies today.
Now it may.
Apply.
It may have an impact, but wealso have to understand who it
(14:01):
was written to 2000 years ago.
And if you do that and really thinkabout that and understand the history
and what was going on then, then youprobably wouldn't add it as a comment for
something that was made that, in 2025.
So anyway, here's a few examplesof some of these that might.
(14:21):
Be where we've invented things,we've come up with things we've
tried to do, things to explain thingswe don't understand, and what it
will often do is lead to confusion.
There's some of them, these aresome highly controversial, but the.
Theory of rapture is one.
The way we cite the sinner'sprayer is another altar call.
(14:44):
Some of the systems that we see outthere, dispensationalism, millennialism,
pre Millennialism, these were notreally scriptural or in the Bible.
A lot of teachings that we see in most.
Of our, denominations, the Catholicchurch has been really good at just
(15:06):
coming up with layers and layers andlayers of things that they've added in.
but that's happened in a lot of 'em,not just picking on the Catholic church.
That's happened in a lot of denominationsin churches and things like that.
We just add to, andsome of that's not bad.
I'm just saying that when we add to it is.
(15:27):
We need to understand where itcame from and understand that it
may not be a foundational truth.
It may be something that we have justcome up with to address something
or maybe deal with something.
Or it could be something that we'vebeen deceived and we've just made up
because we think it's what we understand.
But, it's why it's important for us to.
(15:50):
Almost unlearn.
And, that's why that word deconstructionhas become so controversial because you
almost have to undo some things to get toa place where you could take a fresh look
at it So one of the things that I did and.
This is an important step for me.
(16:10):
I think it's important for mostpeople in the world we're in today.
We are a very distracted society.
We've just got a lot of stuff going on.
My phone right now is my camera up,so I can't hold it up, but I would
hold my phone up as a prime example.
Of what distracts us.
We can scroll, we can look throughthings, we can get access to news, we
can get all of this information, and wethink we are getting wisdom or knowledge.
(16:36):
And what we're really doingis getting distracted.
And so the thing that Ihad to do was slow down.
Pause, rest and just be able tothink and just stop long enough.
And what I found is thatstarted clearing my head up.
(16:59):
And allowing me to just see thingsin a different light so that when I
would go to scripture and read things,I saw them in a different way, and
I believe the Lord was doing that.
I believe the Holy Spirit was promptingthat the Holy Spirit was moving me because
I wasn't coming in with my clouded view.
I was stepping outside of thatmatrix so that I could really step.
(17:21):
Into the biblical narrative, thebiblical story, and be clearer.
I'm not gonna say I've totallygot it figured out, but I can
be clearer than I was before.
I could remove some of that growing upin the Deep South dogma that I had with.
You know, the Baptist and thedenominations, and I could remove some
(17:42):
of that that I had heard in Bible schooland just kind of have a fresh eye.
I could remove some of the teaching fromthe word of faith and the prosperity
gospels so that I could see the scriptureand the way it was originally intended.
Not in the way.
I wanted it to fit my life and my worldto make things work out better for me.
(18:05):
It really is a process.
We talked about this a littlebit in episode one of this
season, a process of surrender.
This word that some of us havestruggled with humility, just I.
Admitting that we don't know everything.
there's a lot of us in Christiancircles and followers of Jesus.
(18:27):
I noticed it a lot in Bible schoolthat people that have, they may have
spent some time with the Bible and theyreally do believe, They know it all.
And I can tell you from just readingthis scripture over and over again,
spending time with the Lord, the moreI think I know, really the less I know.
So when you're around people, and Ihope I don't even come across this
(18:49):
way around, people that say this isthe way it is, thus sayeth the Lord.
I'm not saying you need to run, butmaybe just ask yourself, you know?
Can we boldly say that we understandtopics like the resurrection?
Can we boldly say thatwe understand eternity?
Can we boldly say that weunderstand eternal life?
(19:13):
Can we boldly say we understandwhat it means to be a son
of God or a daughter of God?
And I, I would say the answer iswe might grasp it somewhat, but
we don't really understand it.
This side of actually being part of that.
So this just allows a. Fresh readingif you read things over and over again.
And one of the things I'veread often in the last, say, 12
(19:38):
months, is the Book of Revelation.
And one of the things I'll talkabout in the final episode of this
season is just a fresh understandingof what I've seen in relation to
those things that were in that book.
So it just helps us see it fresher.
(20:00):
And one of the things that reallyhelps when you see things in a
fresh way is to read them in order.
You know, if you were to take any novel orany story and read it out of order, it's
probably gonna be hard to understand it.
Well.
The tough thing about the way the Biblehas been written, or we'll call it
(20:24):
compiled, that really is the correct term.
It's been compiled out of order and youknow, I've already mentioned that in
the Old Testament in the next episode.
We'll talk about that in the NewTestament, but it really does help.
It does me, I'm kind of an order guy.
Systems and process and flow.
It really helps to read it.
(20:46):
In the historical flow or the realflow or the chronological flow
that it was actually written in.
And it does change a tremendous amountof just the way you understand it.
It did for me, I saw connectionsand timeline clarity that I had.
(21:07):
Missed in the story and I believeyou will too, and I'm gonna talk more
about it, so we'll get into that.
But just understand how important it is toread things in order and in the historical
context that it was actually written in.
And again, I've brought this analogy up.
It really is like the matrix, I believewhen we're in some of these doctrines.
(21:33):
Bible schools when we're sittingand taking what people tell us
and we're not questioning it,we're not asking questions.
And I'm not saying to be a jerk about it.
Maybe some people maybe would saythat my personality was that way.
I know I had some run-ins inBible school and truthfully,
they ask me not to come back.
But that's a whole nother story.
(21:54):
We won't get into it here.
But, it, it is likestepping out of the matrix.
the matrix movies are a really goodanalogy here because once you step
out, you see things in a different way.
That doesn't mean that the matrix doesn'tstill exist, but you see that the matrix
is just a portion of the bigger picture.
(22:16):
You could see the framework, youcould see things, you could, you know,
it's it's like Morpheus saying, youknow, you've got two choices here.
You've got the blue pill and everythingjust stays the same and you're just
nice and comfortable and relaxed.
Or there's the red pill and you can never.
Go back.
Well, what I did was I took that red pilland, and things have not been the same.
(22:41):
I've enjoyed the ride.
I will tell you that it has beenuncomfortable and my wife and I, a
little over a year ago, there wasa time that she says, boy, when you
really start seeing some of this.
She says it is really shaking somethings that I thought they were
my core, but they really weren't.
(23:03):
And again, she was raised in the deepsouth like me and had some baked in
beliefs that she had to overcome.
And so that is whatwe're talking about here.
We're talking about getting to a place.
Where you choose, and if you'velistened this far, you're probably
not looking at the blue pill, you'reprobably looking at that red pill, and
(23:23):
you want to continue uncovering whatmight help you see that bigger picture.
And what's cool is once you start doingthat, things that never made sense
start making sense to you I love thatbecause I don't want to be deceived.
I mean, part of my makeup isI just don't wanna be fooled.
(23:44):
I mean, one of my foundationalstatements has always been
thou shall not fool thyself.
I don't know that thoseexact words are in the Bible.
I believe that if they'renot, they should be.
It sounds like a proverb, doesn't it?
but once you see it, you can't.
Unsee it and you can't go back.
That's where I'm at, that's whereI've been for the last few years, and
(24:08):
that's what I'm attempting to sharejust a little bit of in this season,
in this episode and specifically theother episodes that, we're looking at.
I've said before, I don't likeplucking out scriptures, but there
are a few scriptures that willback up this, This concept of
not allowing yourself to be full.
(24:28):
Proverbs three, five, lean,not own your own understanding.
And again, what many of us will tryto do is take our understanding, our
smarts, our knowledge and wisdom, andpull from the Bible to make it fit.
That instead of the other way around.
You know, a great example that we see inActs 1711 is that of the Bereans, and this
(24:53):
was a group of people that it said thatthey, during this timeframe that we're
gonna talk more about later of aroundthe 80 fifties is when this they, they
were, we saw that in acts they examined.
The scriptures daily.
They were studying, they wereseeking the truth in the scriptures.
(25:15):
And that's the way we want to be.
We don't want things to cloudour heads and we don't wanna
take what people tell us.
I don't want you to take what I'msaying or just, uh, maybe even
preacher, teacher, and some peoplemight disagree with that, but.
I believe that you need to takepersonal responsibility and dig into
the scriptures and the word and makesure that you are clear on what the
(25:40):
context is so that it means somethingfor you and how your life is being trans.
Formed and, Matthew 15, nine sortof addresses that, where Jesus
said they worship me in vain.
Their teachings are merely human rules.
Of course, in this situation, he'stalking about the Pharisees We
(26:02):
could probably use that example fora lot of preacher teachers today.
there's just human rulesthat are being put up.
He goes, they do not worship me.
And that was Matthew 15, nine.
I've already referenced one ofmy favorite scriptures because it
launched me into my study of thekingdom of God, which is Matthew 6 33.
Seek.
First the kingdom of Godand his righteousness.
(26:25):
Then all these thingswill be added unto you.
what I realized, my life up to that point,I had been seeking those things first.
I. Not God's kingdom.
And I just had that switched around andmany people do in our first world culture.
John 5 39 through 40 says You studythe scriptures, there's more to it than
(26:47):
that, yet you refuse to come to me.
What we are attempting to do here.
This is what I'm attempting todo, and this goes back to episode
one, is I want to be that new man.
That new man that CS Lewis brought up,that new man that I referenced, bono,
that I said, you know, it seems like.
(27:07):
He is just at peace and restand not anxious for anything.
Well, often we have studied scriptures,yet we have refused to become transformed
and come to him, come to Jesus as Jesuswas talking about here in John five,
and my desire is to be that new manthat is at peace, that is transformed.
(27:34):
And in Christ as Jesus taught.
So hope that's helpful for you.
Listen, unlearning this stuff and maybehaving to pluck out some junk that
we've been living with, it is scary.
I, I know.
I remember sitting on the sofa in our RVand Glory was just almost shaking with.
(27:59):
I don't know what's true anymore.
This is really shaking me atmy core and I'm my personality.
I sort of love being in that position.
I have to be careful not to just putmyself in an unlearning and change
situation just because I enjoy change.
But, but, one of the things you'llfind it is extremely freeing.
(28:23):
When you realize that you're stepping moreinto truth, that you're understanding it,
that you're unplugging from the matrix sothat you can see things in a clearer way.
You can read this Bible in a different waywhen you truly understand who wrote it.
When they wrote it and who itwas written to, the context.
(28:44):
Sometimes the greatest act of faithis to let go of our answers, man's
answers so that we can hear God andsometimes we're clouded and can't hear
because we've got our answers and whatwe want in our head instead of what God
wants us to hear in the next episode.
(29:08):
We are going to go into somethingthat has really been transformational
for me, and that is why the when andhow you read the Bible, especially in
the New Testament, can unlock a storythat you have never truly seen before.
I don't know why most of us.
(29:31):
Have never learned the history of whatwas going on in the first century.
It was such an important time, but asI have studied it, it has just exploded
the Bible in my mind and my soultruthfully, and it has really been that.
Big burst that has gotten me outtathe matrix to really see truth.
(29:54):
So we're gonna talk about whathappens when you stop flipping through
random verses and start reading likethe original audience read it and
heard it as a story that leads upto the biggest shift that you'll.
Ever experience in your faith journey?
Thanks for listening in.
I'm excited you're going alongthis journey with me as I share it.
(30:18):
Uh, step back, step backhere with me next week.
We're gonna keep going, so let'skeep going along this path.
See you next week here at Seek.
Go create.
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
Tim Winders here.
Welcome to episode two of theseason that I'm calling, why The
Bible Doesn't Make Sense yet.
And just so you know, I've kindof titled these internally.
I don't know if it's the full titlethis is going to be, but this is called
Choosing the Red Pill, stepping Outsidethe Matrix to really understand.
(00:22):
The Bible.
So yeah, we'll be using some matrixreferences here and just wanna remind
you, if you haven't, circle backto episode one, circle back there,
and you'll kind of understand kindof how things are flowing here.
The theme of this episode is, we'regonna use this word deconstructing.
But don't let that bother you.
(00:43):
It's really just asking questions.
It's figuring things out.
It's learning more, it's going deeper.
It's seeking, which is all about, what wedo here at Seek GoCreate, we'll use the
word deconstructing decades of doctrineto kind of use some alliteration there.
Letting go of what I was taughtso I could really discover.
(01:06):
What was true?
And yes, that involves somedeconstruction, some thinking
differently, thinking outside the box,stepping outside the matrix so that
you can really see what's going on.
And so that's why we're going to usethat analogy here as we talk about the
journey that I've been on, that I'vebeen trying to figure out how to share.
And, just trying to do itin this five episodes that
(01:29):
we're gonna be talking about.
you know, when we think we understandthe Bible, but we really don't and
when it doesn't make sense, but youwon't admit it, and things like that.
So anyway, if you listen toepisode one, you know, we're
starting with a big vision.
I really wanted to start with.
The end in mind with episode one withthe vision, peace instead of pressure.
(01:52):
But there was a process that I hadto go through to kind of get to that
understanding I had to, had to gothrough a lot of getting rid of what
I thought I knew to get to a placewhere I could understand what was true.
And let me just tell you, there'sa real cloudiness that goes
on with that, with a lot of.
Our religion and what we're taughtand our paradigms and stuff like that.
(02:15):
And I'm not pretending that I've arrivedthere yet, but I feel confident that
I'm in a better place than I was a yearago, two years ago, five years ago.
Definitely 10 years ago.
So.
the big question is what if, what youknow about the Bible is what's keeping
you from truly understanding it?
(02:37):
You know, many of us have been throughyears and years of preaching, teaching,
and listening to people and thingslike that, and that's not a bad thing.
But it starts getting into our headshere and it starts creating some
thoughts that may or may not be true.
And then we add that with theway we were raised or the PA part
(02:58):
of the world that we live in.
I'm in America and verywesternized and we've had ways of.
Thinking about things that aren'talways bad, but they can be.
They can keep us from understandingwhat's outside of that matrix
that we might have been living in.
so one of the things that we oftenhave to do is to recognize what it is.
(03:21):
That we think air quotes here, we knowand maybe step back from that so that we
could really understand the, the truth.
Now, I've given my background before,but I want to just quickly walk
through a few things to kind of get anunderstanding of where, where I was.
I really didn't grow up in church.
(03:41):
I didn't go to church everyweek or anything like that.
We kind of popped in on holidays.
But I grew up in the deep south, inthe Atlanta area, the Bible Belt.
And so bible thinkingreligion was all around it.
You could not get away from it if you,grew up in that part of the country.
(04:03):
and then I believed that Ihad a salvation experience.
I know I had a salvation experience backin the early nineties, 90, late 90, 91.
And so for that period of time nowgoing on, is that 35 years losing count?
I've been asking questions.
I mean, I've been trying to study,I've been wrestling with scripture,
I've been reading through this book.
(04:23):
That is the Bible.
That is the word of God.
For some time went to, some churches, somewould've been considered word of faith.
You know, where you speakit, you name it, claim it.
Some would've been consideredprosperity Gospel, where they
believe that this Bible is a ticketto getting what it is you want.
all the good stuff in life.
(04:45):
I'm not very accurate.
You could probably tell by the wayI'm saying that also, just spent a
lot of time reading it, but I don'tknow that I read it in proper context.
We'll get to that shortly I wouldlisten to preaching teaching and things
like that, but I don't know that I.
Totally put it in theperspective that I needed to.
(05:05):
Maybe I was just trying to take it and addit to my layer of what I thought success
was so that I could continue buildingupon what I, and how I define success.
I'm not sure I'm the only onethat's ever done that, but,
that's kind of the way I did.
But it ended up in Bible school in 2015and my wife and I were thinking, this is
(05:26):
going to be so incredible 'cause we'regonna be hanging out with Christians
and people that are studying theBible and they're gonna be powerhouse
people and it is gonna be incredible.
I actually earned what's called amaster's in biblical studies from there,
and let me just tell you what I foundout that most of the teaching there
(05:46):
were just what I would call canned.
Answers, just quick snippets, pullingscripture out of context to just
fit what we're doing in our modernlife, or in some situations it's
actually just to fit into the systemor structure that they believed in.
This was a non-denominational school, butthere was a man, a person that had started
(06:09):
it, and so everything sort of had to.
Fit into that man's belief systemand his doctrine and they, there
was some good things about it.
I enjoyed being around the people and allof that, but, I can tell you that they
had some baked in thoughts and ideas that,that were not necessarily healthy either.
So all of that.
(06:30):
All of that to say that during my timein Bible school, this would've been like
2016 or 17, going on seven years later,from the time that I'm recording this,
I started doing a deep study on the.
Kingdom of God in Matthew 6 33.
Jesus says, seek yefirst the kingdom of God.
(06:52):
I was wanting to do some studyingon my own outside of what was going
on and what was being fed to usin that Bible school environment.
And so I started studying that thing thatJesus said to seek first, and it really
opened my eyes to the bigger picture.
I went through every scripturethat mentioned the kingdom of God.
I went through and dug into and handwrote them out and, you know, studied
(07:16):
the Greek words and meditated on them.
Just really allowing, I believethe Holy Spirit to lead and
guide me through revealing.
What the kingdom of God was.
This thing that Jesus saidhe brought, he brought the
kingdom of God into this earth.
(07:37):
And so, that was a big steppingpoint for me, a big I. I guess a big
part of the journey was me learningmore about the Kingdom of God.
I don't fully grasp it totally.
If anyone says they do, I canguarantee you they don't know
what they're talking about.
But, I understood itmore than I did before.
(07:58):
Later I went through and my wifeGloria, was doing this, but I
actually went through reading theBible over the course of a year.
In chronological order.
Now, I had read the Bible through,but I had never read it in order.
I will tell you that reading the Biblein chronological order of the timeframe
(08:22):
that the events happened or that theywere believed to have happened will
impact your perspective definitely inthe Old Testament in a tremendous way.
Because, I mean, I just had a lot ofstuff jumbled up and did not understand
timelines and how things fit together.
I had been reading the Bible okay.
It wasn't as if I wasjust a casual Christian.
(08:45):
I had been reading it and I hadgone through Bible school, but I did
not understand how those pieces fittogether of how the prophets and how
the kings and the nation of Israel and.
All of that fit.
I did not understand that untilI read it chronologically.
To fast forward over the last fewyears, what I've done is I've immersed
(09:07):
myself in first century historyand culture to really understand
who wrote the New Testament.
What they were going throughand who they wrote it to.
You know, we throw these words aroundlike, oh, you need to read it in context.
(09:28):
And I've done that myself, andI've seen other people do that.
But then when I listen to what I usedto say and also what other people say.
I still don't think we fully getthe context of what was going on.
We really, I believe, have to digin more to what was going on in that
(09:51):
New Testament timeframe, which I'lltalk about more in the next episode.
But it's really this timeframe betweena 30, about the time that Jesus.
Finished his earthly ministry andwent to the cross and was resurrected
up to 80 70, which a significantevent occurred there, which was the
(10:13):
destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
We'll talk more about that later, butthat timeframe, we really, as Christians
need to understand it so that we couldmaybe step out of the matrix that we live
in, in currently recording this in 2025.
To kind of understand a biggerpicture that, went on historically.
(10:36):
Okay, so here's a few problemswith some of the theologies or the
programming or the dogmas that we have.
We've got these doctrines, we've gotthese dogmas, we've got these paradigms.
That cause us to read scripture andtry to make the scripture work with
(10:58):
what we think instead of allowingthe scripture to lead and guide.
We've got these filters, we'vegot these ways that we look at it.
I'll tell you one way we really see itin our current world again, this 2025.
And that is where people will takescripture and try to make their
political beliefs, their politicalsystem work with scripture.
(11:21):
And I'm just gonna go ahead andbust up something right here.
And I've got definite political, I leancertain ways politically, but we've got to
disconnect that from the way we look at.
Things in the Bible because I canguarantee you, especially for those
in the United States where we'vegot two political basically sides.
(11:43):
We've got a Republican and a Democraticparty, we've got what we call a left.
We call it a right.
I don't think that's really a goodexample, but, I can guarantee you
that I could take this Bible, thisholy scripture, and I could find,
I could pluck out scriptures.
That could justify political.
(12:04):
Hot buttons, political ideas,political ideologies that
would back up both systems.
The left, right Republican or Democrat.
And some of you're saying, no, no, no,the Bible is this way or is that way.
No, I could guarantee you that.
I could find examples like that.
So we have to be really careful about.
(12:25):
Making the Bible fitour political beliefs.
That's a whole nother topic Idon't wanna get into, but it could
be part of something that wasbothering me along this journey.
What we were seeing going on politically,I. We are taught what to believe
before learning how to read in context.
In other words, we go to churches, welisten to people, we go online and we hear
(12:52):
things, and then we will go to the Bibleto try to find things that back up what we
believe instead of the other way around.
The other way around is take the time.
To really be still and quiet and get intothis scripture, get into this Bible so
(13:13):
that the Bible, the word of God, reallyspills over into who we are instead of
who we are trying to justify what it is.
plucking out some scripturesand so what we do, it ends up.
we accept certain things.
We skip over certain things.
We twist things.
I mean, I've got an example right nowon a Facebook post that I did where
(13:36):
someone I went to bible school tooka scripture and put it in the comment
as if it fit that post that I did,but it was not in context at all.
They're taking something that waswritten to an audience 2000 years ago
and trying to say it applies today.
Now it may.
Apply.
It may have an impact, but wealso have to understand who it
(14:01):
was written to 2000 years ago.
And if you do that and really thinkabout that and understand the history
and what was going on then, then youprobably wouldn't add it as a comment for
something that was made that, in 2025.
So anyway, here's a few examplesof some of these that might.
(14:21):
Be where we've invented things,we've come up with things we've
tried to do, things to explain thingswe don't understand, and what it
will often do is lead to confusion.
There's some of them, these aresome highly controversial, but the.
Theory of rapture is one.
The way we cite the sinner'sprayer is another altar call.
(14:44):
Some of the systems that we see outthere, dispensationalism, millennialism,
pre Millennialism, these were notreally scriptural or in the Bible.
A lot of teachings that we see in most.
Of our, denominations, the Catholicchurch has been really good at just
(15:06):
coming up with layers and layers andlayers of things that they've added in.
but that's happened in a lot of 'em,not just picking on the Catholic church.
That's happened in a lot of denominationsin churches and things like that.
We just add to, andsome of that's not bad.
I'm just saying that when we add to it is.
(15:27):
We need to understand where itcame from and understand that it
may not be a foundational truth.
It may be something that we have justcome up with to address something
or maybe deal with something.
Or it could be something that we'vebeen deceived and we've just made up
because we think it's what we understand.
But, it's why it's important for us to.
(15:50):
Almost unlearn.
And, that's why that word deconstructionhas become so controversial because you
almost have to undo some things to get toa place where you could take a fresh look
at it So one of the things that I did and.
This is an important step for me.
(16:10):
I think it's important for mostpeople in the world we're in today.
We are a very distracted society.
We've just got a lot of stuff going on.
My phone right now is my camera up,so I can't hold it up, but I would
hold my phone up as a prime example.
Of what distracts us.
We can scroll, we can look throughthings, we can get access to news, we
can get all of this information, and wethink we are getting wisdom or knowledge.
(16:36):
And what we're really doingis getting distracted.
And so the thing that Ihad to do was slow down.
Pause, rest and just be able tothink and just stop long enough.
And what I found is thatstarted clearing my head up.
(16:59):
And allowing me to just see thingsin a different light so that when I
would go to scripture and read things,I saw them in a different way, and
I believe the Lord was doing that.
I believe the Holy Spirit was promptingthat the Holy Spirit was moving me because
I wasn't coming in with my clouded view.
I was stepping outside of thatmatrix so that I could really step.
(17:21):
Into the biblical narrative, thebiblical story, and be clearer.
I'm not gonna say I've totallygot it figured out, but I can
be clearer than I was before.
I could remove some of that growing upin the Deep South dogma that I had with.
You know, the Baptist and thedenominations, and I could remove some
(17:42):
of that that I had heard in Bible schooland just kind of have a fresh eye.
I could remove some of the teaching fromthe word of faith and the prosperity
gospels so that I could see the scriptureand the way it was originally intended.
Not in the way.
I wanted it to fit my life and my worldto make things work out better for me.
(18:05):
It really is a process.
We talked about this a littlebit in episode one of this
season, a process of surrender.
This word that some of us havestruggled with humility, just I.
Admitting that we don't know everything.
there's a lot of us in Christiancircles and followers of Jesus.
(18:27):
I noticed it a lot in Bible schoolthat people that have, they may have
spent some time with the Bible and theyreally do believe, They know it all.
And I can tell you from just readingthis scripture over and over again,
spending time with the Lord, the moreI think I know, really the less I know.
So when you're around people, and Ihope I don't even come across this
(18:49):
way around, people that say this isthe way it is, thus sayeth the Lord.
I'm not saying you need to run, butmaybe just ask yourself, you know?
Can we boldly say that we understandtopics like the resurrection?
Can we boldly say thatwe understand eternity?
Can we boldly say that weunderstand eternal life?
(19:13):
Can we boldly say we understandwhat it means to be a son
of God or a daughter of God?
And I, I would say the answer iswe might grasp it somewhat, but
we don't really understand it.
This side of actually being part of that.
So this just allows a. Fresh readingif you read things over and over again.
And one of the things I'veread often in the last, say, 12
(19:38):
months, is the Book of Revelation.
And one of the things I'll talkabout in the final episode of this
season is just a fresh understandingof what I've seen in relation to
those things that were in that book.
So it just helps us see it fresher.
(20:00):
And one of the things that reallyhelps when you see things in a
fresh way is to read them in order.
You know, if you were to take any novel orany story and read it out of order, it's
probably gonna be hard to understand it.
Well.
The tough thing about the way the Biblehas been written, or we'll call it
(20:24):
compiled, that really is the correct term.
It's been compiled out of order and youknow, I've already mentioned that in
the Old Testament in the next episode.
We'll talk about that in the NewTestament, but it really does help.
It does me, I'm kind of an order guy.
Systems and process and flow.
It really helps to read it.
(20:46):
In the historical flow or the realflow or the chronological flow
that it was actually written in.
And it does change a tremendous amountof just the way you understand it.
It did for me, I saw connectionsand timeline clarity that I had.
(21:07):
Missed in the story and I believeyou will too, and I'm gonna talk more
about it, so we'll get into that.
But just understand how important it is toread things in order and in the historical
context that it was actually written in.
And again, I've brought this analogy up.
It really is like the matrix, I believewhen we're in some of these doctrines.
(21:33):
Bible schools when we're sittingand taking what people tell us
and we're not questioning it,we're not asking questions.
And I'm not saying to be a jerk about it.
Maybe some people maybe would saythat my personality was that way.
I know I had some run-ins inBible school and truthfully,
they ask me not to come back.
But that's a whole nother story.
(21:54):
We won't get into it here.
But, it, it is likestepping out of the matrix.
the matrix movies are a really goodanalogy here because once you step
out, you see things in a different way.
That doesn't mean that the matrix doesn'tstill exist, but you see that the matrix
is just a portion of the bigger picture.
(22:16):
You could see the framework, youcould see things, you could, you know,
it's it's like Morpheus saying, youknow, you've got two choices here.
You've got the blue pill and everythingjust stays the same and you're just
nice and comfortable and relaxed.
Or there's the red pill and you can never.
Go back.
Well, what I did was I took that red pilland, and things have not been the same.
(22:41):
I've enjoyed the ride.
I will tell you that it has beenuncomfortable and my wife and I, a
little over a year ago, there wasa time that she says, boy, when you
really start seeing some of this.
She says it is really shaking somethings that I thought they were
my core, but they really weren't.
(23:03):
And again, she was raised in the deepsouth like me and had some baked in
beliefs that she had to overcome.
And so that is whatwe're talking about here.
We're talking about getting to a place.
Where you choose, and if you'velistened this far, you're probably
not looking at the blue pill, you'reprobably looking at that red pill, and
(23:23):
you want to continue uncovering whatmight help you see that bigger picture.
And what's cool is once you start doingthat, things that never made sense
start making sense to you I love thatbecause I don't want to be deceived.
I mean, part of my makeup isI just don't wanna be fooled.
(23:44):
I mean, one of my foundationalstatements has always been
thou shall not fool thyself.
I don't know that thoseexact words are in the Bible.
I believe that if they'renot, they should be.
It sounds like a proverb, doesn't it?
but once you see it, you can't.
Unsee it and you can't go back.
That's where I'm at, that's whereI've been for the last few years, and
(24:08):
that's what I'm attempting to sharejust a little bit of in this season,
in this episode and specifically theother episodes that, we're looking at.
I've said before, I don't likeplucking out scriptures, but there
are a few scriptures that willback up this, This concept of
not allowing yourself to be full.
(24:28):
Proverbs three, five, lean,not own your own understanding.
And again, what many of us will tryto do is take our understanding, our
smarts, our knowledge and wisdom, andpull from the Bible to make it fit.
That instead of the other way around.
You know, a great example that we see inActs 1711 is that of the Bereans, and this
(24:53):
was a group of people that it said thatthey, during this timeframe that we're
gonna talk more about later of aroundthe 80 fifties is when this they, they
were, we saw that in acts they examined.
The scriptures daily.
They were studying, they wereseeking the truth in the scriptures.
(25:15):
And that's the way we want to be.
We don't want things to cloudour heads and we don't wanna
take what people tell us.
I don't want you to take what I'msaying or just, uh, maybe even
preacher, teacher, and some peoplemight disagree with that, but.
I believe that you need to takepersonal responsibility and dig into
the scriptures and the word and makesure that you are clear on what the
(25:40):
context is so that it means somethingfor you and how your life is being trans.
Formed and, Matthew 15, nine sortof addresses that, where Jesus
said they worship me in vain.
Their teachings are merely human rules.
Of course, in this situation, he'stalking about the Pharisees We
(26:02):
could probably use that example fora lot of preacher teachers today.
there's just human rulesthat are being put up.
He goes, they do not worship me.
And that was Matthew 15, nine.
I've already referenced one ofmy favorite scriptures because it
launched me into my study of thekingdom of God, which is Matthew 6 33.
Seek.
First the kingdom of Godand his righteousness.
(26:25):
Then all these thingswill be added unto you.
what I realized, my life up to that point,I had been seeking those things first.
I. Not God's kingdom.
And I just had that switched around andmany people do in our first world culture.
John 5 39 through 40 says You studythe scriptures, there's more to it than
(26:47):
that, yet you refuse to come to me.
What we are attempting to do here.
This is what I'm attempting todo, and this goes back to episode
one, is I want to be that new man.
That new man that CS Lewis brought up,that new man that I referenced, bono,
that I said, you know, it seems like.
(27:07):
He is just at peace and restand not anxious for anything.
Well, often we have studied scriptures,yet we have refused to become transformed
and come to him, come to Jesus as Jesuswas talking about here in John five,
and my desire is to be that new manthat is at peace, that is transformed.
(27:34):
And in Christ as Jesus taught.
So hope that's helpful for you.
Listen, unlearning this stuff and maybehaving to pluck out some junk that
we've been living with, it is scary.
I, I know.
I remember sitting on the sofa in our RVand Glory was just almost shaking with.
(27:59):
I don't know what's true anymore.
This is really shaking me atmy core and I'm my personality.
I sort of love being in that position.
I have to be careful not to just putmyself in an unlearning and change
situation just because I enjoy change.
But, but, one of the things you'llfind it is extremely freeing.
(28:23):
When you realize that you're stepping moreinto truth, that you're understanding it,
that you're unplugging from the matrix sothat you can see things in a clearer way.
You can read this Bible in a different waywhen you truly understand who wrote it.
When they wrote it and who itwas written to, the context.
(28:44):
Sometimes the greatest act of faithis to let go of our answers, man's
answers so that we can hear God andsometimes we're clouded and can't hear
because we've got our answers and whatwe want in our head instead of what God
wants us to hear in the next episode.
(29:08):
We are going to go into somethingthat has really been transformational
for me, and that is why the when andhow you read the Bible, especially in
the New Testament, can unlock a storythat you have never truly seen before.
I don't know why most of us.
(29:31):
Have never learned the history of whatwas going on in the first century.
It was such an important time, but asI have studied it, it has just exploded
the Bible in my mind and my soultruthfully, and it has really been that.
Big burst that has gotten me outtathe matrix to really see truth.
(29:54):
So we're gonna talk about whathappens when you stop flipping through
random verses and start reading likethe original audience read it and
heard it as a story that leads upto the biggest shift that you'll.
Ever experience in your faith journey?
Thanks for listening in.
I'm excited you're going alongthis journey with me as I share it.
(30:18):
Uh, step back, step backhere with me next week.
We're gonna keep going, so let'skeep going along this path.
See you next week here at Seek.
Go create.
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