June 3, 2025 • 54 mins
Talking inanimate objects continue to upend Jaye's life in this second episode of Wonderfalls. When a flock of plastic pink flamingos commands her to "get off your ass," Jaye ignores them – leading to an accident that puts her father in the hospital. Yet this mishap might actually be a blessing in disguise when doctors discover a potentially fatal blood clot.
Meanwhile, Jaye's high school nemesis Gretchen Speck-Horowitz returns, organizing an oddly-timed "six-and-a-half year reunion" and roping an unwilling Jaye into helping. As Jaye cuts out yearbook photos for nametags, she confronts her own lack of achievement compared to her highly successful family. The muses initially encourage Jaye to assist Gretchen, then abruptly shift to telling her to "destroy" her instead – creating a moral quandary that bartender Eric finds strangely attractive.
The episode deftly balances humor and heart through a subplot involving Jaye's sister Sharon and her romantic interest Beth. Their "wacky lesbian drama" (as Catherine puts it) showcases the show's progressive storylines for 2004 television, even if some elements feel dated by today's standards. When Sharon drugs her father to create alone time with Beth, it leads to one of the episode's funniest moments – Dad wandering downstairs in his underwear, too medicated to process finding his daughter making out on the living room floor.
What makes "Pink Flamingos" particularly compelling is its exploration of authenticity versus meeting expectations. When Gretchen admits her husband is merely "the man of my list" rather than the man of her dreams, we see how Jaye's reluctant interventions often guide people toward liberating truths about themselves. Despite its early cancellation, Wonderfalls continues to shine with its unique blend of whimsy, existential questioning, and character-driven storytelling.
Have you watched the full series? Share your favorite talking object moments with us on social media and discover why this quirky show continues to captivate viewers nearly two decades after its brief network run.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew (00:17):
Welcome back everyone to episode two of season one of
Seeking, season Two.
Good job.
Catherine (00:28):
Thank you Proud of you.
Andrew (00:30):
I am your host, andrew, and this is my co-host, slash
ex-wife.
I'll let you introduce yourself.
Hi, I'm Catherine.
Catherine (00:42):
Hi Catherine.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good, other than us.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good.
Andrew (00:45):
Other than us both being utterly exhausted at the moment
.
Catherine (00:48):
And I have very little voice left.
Andrew (00:51):
So we're going to use it on this episode and we're going
to talk about.
So let's start with this seasonof the podcast.
We are talking about the showWonderfalls.
Catherine (01:05):
Yes, we are.
Andrew (01:06):
Which was from 2004.
Just a quick recap because wetalked about it last, episode
2004,.
They only aired four out of the13 episodes.
We're still in things thatactually showed up on TV, still
things that actually aired ontelevision.
So the whole point of thispodcast is to talk about shows
(01:27):
that were canceled after oneseason or didn't even make it a
full season, and and how we feelthat they they possibly
deserved.
I guess we'll determine, didthey deserve a season two or or
not?
So so far I I enjoyed the pilotepisode.
I enjoyed this episode as well,which was episode two, which is
called Pink Flamingos.
However, this is the one thataired fourth.
Catherine (01:51):
Yeah, I hate when they do this, where they air
things out of order, so itdoesn't really make sense.
I just was just watching thatdid this and I was annoyed
because, oh, okay, I'm about totell on myself big bang theory.
Yes, so there was, I waswatching.
I don't know I put on big bangtheory when I'm gonna take a nap
(02:13):
on the couch, got it, and I waswatching something and it was
like in one episode of theseason, um, like penny and
leonard were together, and thenin the very next one, they
weren't.
Oh weird, Because they airedthings out of order.
I hate when they do that.
Andrew (02:30):
Yeah, it's a little odd because, because you were, we
were introduced to GretchenSpeck Horowitz, one of her high
school classmates, in the pilotepisode, right, and Gretchen
Speck Horowitz shows up again inthis episode, which is
technically episode two, so itcarries over her, her character
(02:52):
carries over into this episode.
But what was I going to say,her character carries over into
this episode, so it's, it's anatural transition from episode
one to to episode two.
But at least on the DVD theycorrect that, yeah, which is
nice.
Catherine (03:12):
And if you watch it on YouTube, it's in the correct
order.
Andrew (03:16):
Right.
So that is that the episode iscalled Pink Flamingos.
Yep, and the kind of the briefsynopsis of this one is so.
It starts out um an accident acar you know called car accident
an accident.
Um jay's father ends up in thehospital.
(03:37):
That kicks off a subplot.
Um, jay is well, gretchen,gchen is, because she's going on
her pilgrimage to Israel whenthe 10th reunion would happen.
So she's having asix-and-a-half-year reunion.
Catherine (03:59):
Yeah, as you do.
Andrew (04:01):
As you always do, as you do, as you always do.
And so Gretchen is trying torope Jay into helping her set up
and prep this reunion, so she'strying to get sucked into that.
A couple quick notes on theepisode.
It was directed by Todd Hollandand he directed about five
(04:23):
episodes of Wonderfalls actually.
It was directed by Todd Hollandand he directed about five
episodes of Wonderfalls actually, which I thought was
interesting.
So he's been around there for awhile.
He's directed tons of stuffwritten and directed a ton of
stuff over the years.
The episode itself was writtenby and this was interesting
(04:45):
Gretchen J Berg and aaronharbert harbert's okay, if you
look on imdb, it gives you acomplete different set of
writers, but if you watch theepisode, this is who they say
wrote this right, wrote thisepisode.
But, um, gretchen berg well,gretchen and aaron are writing
partners and they've beenwriting partners ever since, um,
they attended Northwesternuniversity.
(05:05):
So they, they, they just havewritten a ton of things.
Um, I think he was.
I think they came in on thelate, the late end of nine, oh,
two, one, oh.
Interesting he was like he was,like they were like both writers
I think she was a scriptsupervisor and he was a writer
on like the last two seasons of90210 was that around, when um
(05:26):
kelly had a drug problem anddonna and david got married?
I have no clue.
I didn't, I didn't, I didn'twatch.
I watched some of 90210, but Ididn't get into the.
Catherine (05:38):
I I tapered off after the, you know, those last
seasons um I listened to afantastic rewatch podcast called
Again With this, with two ofthe founders of Television
Without Pity Right, and theywent through the entire series,
wow 90210.
Andrew (05:57):
Oh my God, Interesting.
So yeah, so Gretchen was awriter-producer on Wonderfalls.
She shows up again as theco-executive producer of Pushing
Daisies.
She was also the showrunner,interestingly enough, of some of
the early seasons of Star TrekDiscovery.
Brian Fuller, the creator ofWonderfalls, is also credited as
(06:18):
being the creator of Star TrekDiscovery.
However, he left before it wentto series.
So I don't know if there's somecreative differences or what.
So, as I say, don't blame himfor the bad Klingon makeup.
Any Star Trek Discovery fansout there will know what I'm
(06:40):
talking about.
The Klingons looked reallyweird in Discovery.
Fortunately they went back to.
The Klingons looked reallyweird in Discovery.
Fortunately they went back tothe usual Klingon makeup for
Strange New Worlds, which is apseudo spinoff of Discovery.
But anyway, I digress.
All right, let's kick it off.
(07:00):
So that's kind of the intro.
So let's kick it off.
Let's that's kind of.
That's kind of the intro.
So let's kick it off.
Let's talk about what are someof the.
Let's talk about the main plot.
So what's, what's the?
The main plot, which is the?
Basically, the pink flamingos,yep, are, kick kick this off
right at the very beginning.
And what do they say?
Catherine (07:19):
get off your ass get off your ass.
Andrew (07:22):
Now, this is so so that.
So that's the whole thing.
The pink flamingos say get offyour ass.
Jay's in the car doesn't getoff her ass.
Father has the accident becausethe car rolls over him.
Catherine (07:33):
Right, how do you run over somebody from the
passenger seat?
That's what her sister asks.
Oh yeah, how do you run oversomebody from the passenger seat
?
Andrew (07:44):
Well, Jay is apparently successful in doing that.
Catherine (07:47):
Yep.
Andrew (07:48):
So Jay is tasked with helping Gretchen throw the six
and a half year reunion, however, it's so, interestingly enough.
So the, the muses, is whatthey're, what they're known as
the, the voices of the Variousthings, various things.
Various animals, things thattalk to her.
(08:08):
Initially they say, get offyour ass Right.
And then at some point theytell Jay to destroy Gretchen,
right.
So this will help Gretchenreevaluate her marriage.
And here's what I findinteresting, though We'll get
into that in a little bit.
(08:28):
I don't want to get into thedetails, but that's the main
plot.
Is there anything else that you?
Catherine (08:35):
No, I don't think so that pretty much covers that.
That's the main plot.
Andrew (08:39):
The six and a half year reunion is the main plot, jay
helping Gretchen with that.
The subplot kicked off by theaccident is because Jay's sister
yeah.
Sharon, sharon, sharon, sharon.
Has this, this love interest?
(09:00):
The woman who was the ex-wifeof the EPS driver?
It doesn't even.
I don't know if he justdisappears, oh poor bitch.
I know.
So he's gone.
He's gone, and Sharon is tryingto in some way get on a date
(09:24):
with this woman.
Catherine (09:26):
Yep.
Andrew (09:27):
And so the whole kind of subplot is them trying to get
together because Sharon istaking care of the father and so
the other woman thinks thatshe's not interested, like she's
just putting her off.
Right so it becomes a wholething, and so that's kind of the
subplot of them trying to geton a date.
Catherine (09:48):
Yeah wacky lesbian drama.
What's that Wacky lesbian drama.
Andrew (09:52):
Wacky lesbian drama.
Yes, let's go, lesbians.
Catherine (09:56):
Let's go lesbians.
Andrew (09:59):
I love that so much.
Billy on the street.
Alright, so that's the plot,the subplot, that really is the
two things that are happening inthis episode.
So all right, so let's talkabout, let's break down the main
plot.
Catherine (10:16):
Yes.
Andrew (10:17):
So get off your ass.
Here's my first problem withthis episode.
Okay, let's talk about this.
So the muses tell her to getoff her.
Tell Jay to get off her ass.
Right, if she actually got offher ass.
Catherine (10:32):
Yeah, her father might've died from a blood clot.
Andrew (10:36):
So that's the whole thing.
So what happened?
So, for anyone who's watched it.
So the father he goes in thehospital because he breaks
multiple fractures in his leg,but they discover a blood clot
in his leg, and so thisinadvertently saves his life.
But had Jay gotten off her ass?
If she had listened to themuses then and gotten off her
(10:58):
ass, her father probably wouldbe dead.
Catherine (11:00):
But here's the thing.
So I don't think it's a problemwith the episode because, since
this is aired in the properorder and this is episode two, I
think the muses are kind ofcounting on the fact that Jay is
probably not going to do whatthey tell her to immediately.
Andrew (11:16):
That's that's pretty bold of them to like be like oh,
she won't believe us anyway.
Catherine (11:20):
Look what she did in the first episode.
Andrew (11:22):
I understand you know.
Catherine (11:23):
Well, look what she did in the first episode.
I understand, so I feel likemaybe it's a calculated risk on
their part that she's going tobe like I'm not getting out of
the car, which is exactly whatshe did.
Andrew (11:33):
Right, I understand.
I understand she's stilladjusting to the muses.
She's like no, this is nothappening again.
Catherine (11:40):
Wire, inanimate objects.
Speaking to me Exactly.
Andrew (11:44):
A whole flock of pink flamingos.
Catherine (11:46):
Are those flamingos on their lawn or the neighbor's
lawn?
That's a bigger question for me.
Andrew (11:50):
Well, here's the thing they are not a pink flamingo
family.
Well, here's the thing shelooks out both windows and
they're there, and they're there.
Catherine (11:57):
Are the flamingos moving?
Andrew (12:02):
I don't, I don't know.
Is she hallucinating?
The pink flamingos.
Catherine (12:05):
Is she hallucinating the whole thing?
Andrew (12:07):
Right, exactly, is this going to be a new heart
situation?
I just watched that cliprecently, but I don't know.
So the whole thing is confusingfor me Because, again, if she
had listened to them, then thiswould have been, this would have
(12:27):
been a tragic episode yeah, wewould have lost bill sadler, and
that would have been super sad,right?
Catherine (12:32):
super sadler, super sadler, oh, sorry, so that's the
thing.
Andrew (12:39):
So like so again.
Okay, so, okay, so, let's.
So that's.
Let's.
So like, so again, okay, so,okay, so, let's.
So that's, let's get that outof there.
So so now.
Now she has to get off her ass.
Catherine (12:50):
Right.
Andrew (12:51):
And she finally agrees.
So so we get to.
She finally agrees to to helpGretchen.
Catherine (12:58):
Right.
Andrew (12:59):
Because and this, this brings up a lot of what's the
word I'm looking for kind ofconflict for Jay Sure, because
she's preparing the name tagsfor the reunion.
And so she's cutting out thecopies of the yearbook and she's
(13:23):
cutting out her section of theyearbook and it's cutting out
her, her section of the yearbook.
And it's like no clubs, no,nothing, right, like she, she
doesn't, didn't participate inin anything.
So it's like again we go backto the.
You know, her sister's asuccessful lawyer, um, her
father's a doctor, her mother'san author, um, we don't know
what.
At this point, we don't knowwhat the brother does.
(13:45):
Well, he's, yeah, quite yet wediscover that in episode three
next episode next episode.
Catherine (13:49):
We'll talk about that um my issue with that though,
is jay went to brown.
Right, she went to brown.
You don't get into brown if youhave no clubs, no, whatever
like she could not have possiblybeen as disaffected in high
school right as she is now.
So I think that's a miss ontheir part, actually, Because I
feel like if, like, she wouldn'thave gotten into Brown if she
(14:12):
wasn't an achiever.
You can't just be smart Likeshe's obviously intelligent.
Andrew (14:16):
Right.
Catherine (14:17):
But like to get into an Ivy.
You can't just be smart.
Andrew (14:20):
Well, so what you have to have.
So let's talk about this.
Her father's a doctor, hermother's an author, did they?
Catherine (14:26):
You think they bought her way in?
Andrew (14:27):
Did they buy?
Maybe Now we're uncovering,opening a whole can of worms
here Conspiracy.
Oh my God, what happened?
How did Jay get into Brown?
That's a very good point,though she did nothing in high
school.
Catherine (14:41):
Okay, wait, I'm forgetting her name now.
Rebecca, the one who bought herkid's way into school.
Oh, the fake, her name's notRebecca.
She played Aunt Becky on.
Andrew (14:54):
Fall Out, I know, I know , lori Loughlin, lori Loughlin
yes, so do her parents, know,lori Loughlin.
Right, maybe this was like theprecursor to the buying your way
into school.
Catherine (15:07):
I don't know.
I mean, it just seemsimpossible to me because, like
you, know I was an achiever andI went to a good school and I
was in a massive amount of clubs.
I was the editor of thenewspaper, I played soccer, I
worked after school.
Like you had to have activities, right, you couldn't just do
(15:28):
nothing and get into Brown.
It's just not happening.
Andrew (15:31):
It's not happening, so very good point, thank you.
Catherine (15:35):
Yeah, every now and then.
Andrew (15:38):
That's a good pickup.
So again, somehow Jay got intoBrown, Right.
We don't know how or why, butclearly she didn't herself earn
her way in, perhaps based on herperformance in high school.
Catherine (15:59):
I feel like it's just a miss in the writing.
Yeah.
Andrew (16:03):
I mean because they started out that way.
Catherine (16:05):
Yeah.
Andrew (16:06):
I think they started out and then they as her going to
brown and they got to thisepisode and was like oh well,
how do you?
Catherine (16:13):
and they're really like leaning into the oh.
Jay is just disaffected.
She's different from her family, but I feel like they would
have been better served to makeit like jay was an achiever
until she got out of college andkind of lost her way right that
would.
Andrew (16:28):
that would have been a much better play, I think, but
then you wouldn't have thisepisode.
Because that's the whole thing,because she was hoping to wait
for the 10-year reunion to havesomething that she could
actually be proud of saying thatshe had accomplished.
Catherine (16:44):
I still think you could have done this episode,
because, even if she, had beenan achiever in high school.
She could have.
Andrew (16:49):
Yes, and you still could have had this episode because
even if she had been an achieverin high school, thank you.
What happened?
Yes, and you could have had.
Catherine (16:52):
You still could have had the rivalry with Gretchen,
because Gretchen is just anawful character.
Andrew (16:58):
I like.
Catherine (17:02):
Why the?
Andrew (17:04):
the the Jewish population is the largest
minority in there in theirgraduating class.
Catherine (17:09):
My favorite well, one of my favorite lines in this
episode was the mother turningto Jay and saying Jay, stop
teasing.
You've seen Fiddler?
That's.
The only reference point forany knowledge of Jewish people
is Fiddler on the Roof Fiddleron the Roof.
Andrew (17:28):
So yeah, so there's definitely some ways they could
have done that, done herbackstory a little bit better.
Catherine (17:34):
I think Maybe they should have asked me to write
this one.
Maybe, yeah, 2004, catherinewould have been happy to do that
.
Andrew (17:41):
I'm sure you would have.
Yeah, you would have loved that.
I would have.
So okay, so, with all thoseissues notwithstanding, she
helps.
Well, here's the thing.
So her friend Mahandra, janet,Janet, casual racism, yes, she's
out to destroy, she's out todestroy Gretchen.
Catherine (18:10):
Right.
Andrew (18:10):
Because well, for one thing, on school photo day.
Catherine (18:16):
Oh God the relaxer.
Andrew (18:18):
The activator.
Catherine (18:19):
Oh the activator.
Yes.
Andrew (18:20):
That's right.
Fortunately it was BlackHistory Month.
Catherine (18:24):
Oh my God.
According to Jay Poor Mahandrawith her giant frow.
Andrew (18:28):
Oh man, casual racism.
Casual racism throughout thisepisode.
Mahondra has a chip on hershoulder for Gretchen, so she's
not going to help Jay preparefor the six and a half year
(18:49):
reunion, so she's got her ownbeef with Gretchen.
So, anyway, they get to thereunion and Gretchen's very
effusive about her marriage.
Catherine (19:12):
And what is?
Andrew (19:13):
your favorite line?
Wait which one?
Catherine (19:14):
The man of the dreams .
When the Marine says to her sohe's the man of your dreams, and
she replies he's the man of mylist, exactly.
Sure, he checks all the boxes.
She doesn't actually love him.
Andrew (19:24):
She doesn't actually love him and she realizes that.
Catherine (19:29):
Well, I think for somebody like Gretchen, the idea
of being married is moreimportant than who you marry and
whether it's a good marriage.
Andrew (19:35):
Right, and one of the interesting things is so, before
she has that realization, is itthe chicken on the hair clip is
the first one to tell her todestroy?
Gretchen, tell Jay to destroy.
Gretchen, tell Jay to destroy.
Catherine (19:50):
Gretchen I think so.
Andrew (19:54):
I can't remember which muse it is that tells no.
Catherine (19:56):
I'm pretty sure it's the chicken, because then it
comes out with the other linethat I love Defy the chicken.
Andrew (20:02):
Defy the chicken.
So yeah.
So Jay keeps thinking thatshe's got to help Gretchen, help
Gretchen, yeah.
So Jay keeps thinking thatshe's got to help Gretchen, help
Gretchen.
And then there's a seismicshift in what the muses say.
Now they're like destroyGretchen.
She's like wait what?
She's very confused.
Catherine (20:26):
I also thought and I'm backtracking a little bit
but when Gretchen has theget-together in the hotel to
meet the husband, yes, how?
And Jay kind of says this toowhy are Jay Mahondra whose name
she doesn't even know and Jay'smother the only guests at this
(20:48):
thing and Jay's mother?
Andrew (20:49):
the only guests at this thing, Because I don't think I
think any friends that Gretchenhad were superficial friends.
Catherine (21:01):
Well, duh, because look at Gretchen.
Andrew (21:03):
Exactly so.
I think her relationships arevery superficial, and so these
are probably the only peoplethat will still talk.
That's still like actuallyacknowledge her.
Yeah, whether it's for good orbad, I feel like they're the
only people that are still.
Catherine (21:19):
What did she call them?
Her posse or her squad?
I forget.
Andrew (21:24):
I don't think squad was a thing at that point.
I don't think squad was a thing, probably posse, yeah.
So yeah, they're supposed tomeet the husband.
The husband's running late, henever quite shows up.
Catherine (21:39):
Well, because he gets in an accident, he gets into a
car accident.
Right, which is also well,that's so.
That's see.
This is why I think the musesknow more than we think they
know.
Andrew (21:49):
Okay.
Catherine (21:50):
Because Jay calls the husband to harass him to get
him there and that causes theaccident, right, and him not
arriving and Gretchen having theconversation with the
stalkerish Marine Againterrifying when you look at it
in 2025.
(22:11):
Right, I mean, it was probablyscary in 2004, but it was like
played for comedy, right,whereas now it would be like
Holy crap, like get arestraining order against this
guy.
Andrew (22:22):
I just I just see this happening on a Dateline episode
with I've been over, but we'vebeen watching a lot of this with
Keith Morrison, yeah.
Catherine (22:37):
Oh, episode with I've been over, but we've been
watching a lot of this withkeith morrison.
Yeah, ah, that pesky dna welland he had like he's he's in the
military, which means he hasweapons.
Like that's not ptsd, yeah well, and that's not who you want to
be like obsessed with you nowell, you don't want anyone
really to be that level ofobsessed he, he was really
creepy.
Andrew (22:48):
Yeah, it really was.
He's the man of my list, that'sright, so yeah, so I mean
that's kind of the whole plot.
So then she realizes, soGretchen realizes that again she
doesn't really love Mr Horowitz, mm-hmm, and she kind of has
(23:09):
her her moment of liberation andand checks out which I, which
is great, I mean, which is goodfor her.
I mean she realizes that and,while she's still young, um, and
, and, and and moves on, which Ithought was really interesting.
Um, anything else about the,the main, the main plot that you
(23:31):
thought was interesting.
Catherine (23:32):
Can we talk about we used to be friends, because
there's a few things I want tosay about that.
Andrew (23:39):
Well, I was going to get to that.
I was going to get to that insome of the trivia.
Catherine (23:42):
Okay, well, because it's not just used once.
Did you notice that part?
Yeah, it's weird.
It's throughout the episode soI was wondering if it was the
music we're talking about, right, the, so should I just talk
about it now?
let's just talk about it now,okay, so the theme song to
veronica mars we used to befriends by the dandy warhols.
Dandy warhols plays in thisepisode multiple times, right,
(24:06):
my question when I heard it thesecond time was was this
actually the original music usedor did they slap it in again
because they couldn't get therights to something else when
they did the dvds?
Because that happens a lot withthese shows where, like, they
have to like slot in somethingelse because they can't get the
rights I don't know I meandawson's creek has a whole other
(24:30):
theme song on the dvds right,oh wow really yeah, I know,
isn't that weird?
that is weird and it's a suckysong.
It has to be.
I don't want to wait, likeinteresting, but anyway yes, um,
I just thought it wasinteresting that it showed up so
many times, because it's like2004, like there's plenty of
music you could have used.
That was not that, but it wasalso just unless they're very
(24:52):
low budget well, I think theyprobably were very low budget,
um, but it also just sticks outso much because, well for me,
because I'm a huge veronica marsfan, so I mean, as soon as I
hear that song, that's the onlything I associated with.
Just like, if I see a brightyellow pathfinder, all I think
of is Logan Eccles, xterra.
Was it Xterra?
(25:12):
It was a Nissan Xterra.
Still see them out there,though.
I know it's weird, I think thesame thing.
Andrew (25:18):
Logan Eccles.
Logan Eccles, there you are.
I find it interesting becauseit was both.
Because Veronica Mars was 2004as well, right, so this was a
big year for the Dandy Warhols.
Catherine (25:32):
A big year for the Dandy Warhols in general, I
think.
Andrew (25:35):
That was it.
They peaked.
Catherine (25:41):
They peaked in 2004, and then that was it.
Okay, yeah, sorry, that was theonly other thing.
Andrew (25:44):
Yeah.
Catherine (25:46):
That I wanted to talk about for that piece of the
episode.
Andrew (25:51):
All right, so let's talk about the subplot.
Yep, so that was the mainstoryline.
So let's go back, rewind backto the beginning.
When Jay does not get off herass, she reaches to close the
driver's side door, puts the carin neutral I guess neutral and
starts rolling backwards as herfather is picking up the
(26:12):
recycling cans and proceeds toroll right over him, putting him
in the hospital with multiplefractures.
So that's the lead up to thenhe gets out of the hospital and
Sharon picks him up from thehospital and brings him home and
is kind of like nursing himback to health, like just
(26:34):
keeping an eye on him, right,because I can't remember where
the mother is.
She's out doing something, ohyeah.
Catherine (26:40):
No, I don't remember.
Didn't he not tell the motherhe was coming home from the
hospital because he didn't wanther to cancel whatever plan she
had?
Andrew (26:47):
Yeah, something like that.
Catherine (26:48):
This is another piece of the writing that I just
don't, I didn't love.
They paint the mother to besuperficial and kind of awful
and then they they seem to betrying to to redeem that a
little bit.
I think they probably went alittle too hard on how shitty
(27:09):
the mom is, Um, because they'retrying to walk it back.
When he said that, I didn'tbelieve it for a second.
Right, that woman is not goingto do anything she doesn't want
to do and she's certainly notgoing to take time out of her
day to go pick him up from thehospital.
Of course she's going to sendone of the kids Right and she's
probably going to send Jay,because they think she's going
to send one of the kids rightand she's probably going to send
(27:31):
jay because they think she'suseless.
Andrew (27:32):
Um, so that was jay is the one that did run him over.
Catherine (27:34):
So because she is useless, because who would not
get out of the car to help theirfather with the trash cans?
Why does she need flamingos totell her to get off her ass?
Because she is.
She is the prototypical slacker.
Also, why do they have so manytrash cans?
Andrew (27:48):
they are generating a lot of.
And that was recycling right.
I think it was half recycling,half trash.
I vaguely remember, like fourcans, two recycling, two trash.
Catherine (28:00):
I grew up in a family of four.
This is a family of five, okay.
But only three of them areliving at home because the
brother lives with the parents.
Okay, I grew up in a family offour.
We never had more than twotrash cans.
Ridiculous, you also grew up ina family of four.
I would imagine you never hadmore than two trash cans.
Andrew (28:19):
No, I don't ever imagine that, but I mean, it's just
again, it's for the sake ofvisuals.
I guess, To make it look biggerthan I don't know.
I mean, I guess Right To makeit look bigger than I don't know
.
Catherine (28:31):
I mean, I know we're nitpicking it because we're
doing a podcast.
But I'm just like usually thiskind of stuff doesn't stand out
to me and in this showparticularly, for some reason it
really stands out to me.
Interesting.
I feel like a lot of it is kindof sloppy writing, I mean.
In general I really liked thisepisode so I hate to be kind of
like ripping on it like this,but I do think there were a lot
(28:53):
of kind of holes that they couldhave done a better job with.
Andrew (28:57):
I agree, I'm trying to get to there, I'm trying to
remember the actresses name, the, the, the girlfriend of Sharon.
Catherine (29:09):
Oh, I don't know I.
Andrew (29:14):
I don't, I don't.
I don't see her credited on ohBeth.
Catherine (29:18):
Oh, that's right.
I should have remembered that,since that's my sister's name.
Andrew (29:22):
Yeah, that's all right.
Um, so Beth is.
So the whole subplot is thatSharon and Beth are well they
they started out to, so thiswill bring up something, okay.
So in the subplot, I find itfascinating how we were still at
a time when we're like right onthe cusp of when smoking was
(29:46):
still like an okay thing.
Catherine (29:48):
Right.
Andrew (29:50):
And like not so acceptable Because Sharon's just
walking around with a pack ofcigarettes.
Catherine (29:59):
Yeah.
Andrew (30:00):
Which I thought was interesting and the mother comes
out with the smoking cessationbrochure and that's how the
mother meets the the other woman, beth.
Right Cause Sharon and Beth aretalking to them and Sharon's
like I don't know her and themother's like you were just
(30:21):
talking to her.
What I said was I didn't knowshe would be here.
I'm like oh, okay.
Catherine (30:27):
And the mother's just like okay, and then they go
into the carpool thing, whichwas another great line, carpool,
have you gone green?
Andrew (30:34):
Exactly, See again.
Catherine (30:35):
Horrified.
Andrew (30:42):
Have you gone green?
Um, so anyway.
So the the whole subplot is isis sharon and beth trying to
trying to find time to go on a?
I don't say go on a date, butget together, get together hang
out, hang out, hook up.
I was gonna say hookup yeahPrior to Netflix and chill yeah.
So that's the whole subplot.
(31:03):
So it's just on and off.
Sharon feels this obligationthat she's got to take care of
her father, but she still isvery interested in Beth and
wants to go see her.
So it's this back and forththat she's fighting with.
Eventually she just, I guess,invites her over to the house.
Catherine (31:21):
Cause she cause she's watching that she, she, drugs
the dad drugs.
Andrew (31:24):
the dad she's like cause she sees the bottle of pills
and it's like she has this idea,yeah, like the little light
bulb goes off over her head andshe's like, oh, I have an idea
over.
And so the father, she likelike just loopy out of his mind.
I, I love the ending.
I love the ending when they'relike making out on the floor
(31:45):
yeah of the living room and cutover to the father just standing
there wearing his underwear hehad his teddy whities and he's
like and they're just, they'refrozen, and he doesn't say a
word because he is so.
Catherine (32:01):
Drugged out of his mind.
Well, he clearly came down thestairs on the broken leg in a
cast.
Oh my God, so he is dopey, arehis toes blue?
Andrew (32:11):
That was like the other.
That was like the running gagabout how to know if he was okay
.
Are my toes blue?
No, they're fine.
Okay, good, oh my God.
So, yes, I think it's one ofwhen we talk about like our
favorite moments.
In this one, this was one of myfavorite moments.
Catherine (32:29):
Yeah.
Andrew (32:29):
At the very end that he and Jay are pulling out of the
because he goes for a checkup.
I think.
Catherine (32:37):
Yeah, it's like a yeah, Some kind of a followup.
Andrew (32:39):
Yeah, and he's like did you know there was lesbian porn
on basic cable?
Catherine (32:44):
I have that.
I have that.
Did you know our basic cablecomes with lesbian porn?
I had that written down too,cause I thought that was so
funny, so good.
It's another piece of it thatbothered me a little bit.
Why is that?
I love not that part of it.
Well, to an extent.
Okay, let me backtrack.
I will talk about that partfirst when Beth is basically
(33:05):
like oh, I'm not a lesbian, likeI know bisexuals existed, like
she just seems so.
Oh, like I'm not, you know.
Like, yeah, like I, I'm not.
You know like yeah, oh, yeah, Ihooked up with a girl in
college.
I was in a sorority, duh it.
It's the way that any kind oflike queer existence was handled
(33:30):
in the early two thousands.
Yeah, and it was just like okay, yeah, she likes men.
She also clearly likes womenbecause she's pursuing Sharon,
right, okay, so you're bisexual,right.
Why is this?
It was?
You know?
Again, it's played for humor,and I get it Right, but
especially at a time when youweren't seeing gay characters on
(33:53):
TV, sure, and you see howdifficult being a lesbian is for
Sharon, clearly like she isdeep in the closet and what,
like almost 30.
Andrew (34:06):
According to the next episode, 35, I am not 35.
Yeah, so.
Catherine (34:14):
I mean, you know old enough that like it shouldn't
matter, but obviously it does,and I do get that whole coming
out of the closet piece Right,but I just didn't love the way
they played with Beth'ssexuality.
Yeah.
Andrew (34:28):
Again, it was, it was the time.
Catherine (34:33):
Well, and that's the thing, Like, and that's part of
why we're doing this, right,like you look back and it's kind
of like okay, okay, here's howthings have changed in 20 years.
Yeah, um, so I thought that wasinteresting, but no, then the
other piece I was going to talkabout is just the relationship
between jay and her father,which I love the way it's
portrayed in this episode.
Um, it's a very kind of like,even though she's seen as the
(34:55):
screw-up of the like, sheobviously has a special
relationship with her dad.
Yeah, but again and I know thepilot has a lot to do but again
in the pilot you did not getthat Right.
You truly like just thought thewhole family freaking hated her
, right, um, so that was alittle like, a little jarring
for me that it went so rapidlyfrom.
He's the guy just yelling likehave you had an orgasm?
(35:19):
To?
Um, you know like, oh, but wehave to go get what.
Was it Waffles or pancakes?
Andrew (35:25):
pancakes, pancakes.
Catherine (35:26):
Yeah, Sorry.
I've watched mission impossiblethree times recently and, um,
because it has the guy fromseverance in it.
Every time he comes on screen Ijust yell waffle party.
So I'm very fixated on wafflesright now.
Oh yeah, milchak's in it,fascinating.
Yeah, he's a.
He's a submarine commander,excellent.
It's amazing and everybodylaughs when he comes on screen
(35:48):
because all anybody sees thisman as this Milchak, because
that's his breakout role, Right?
But yeah, sorry so pancakes.
I yeah, sorry so pancakes.
I mean I think it's reallysweet and I hope that that
relationship kind of continuesthroughout the series.
Yeah, and that comes from, Ithink, just me having that kind
of relationship with my dad.
Andrew (36:09):
There's so many things.
So today we're recording twoepisodes, right, because we're
going to also talk in the nextepisode about episode three.
So there's so many thingsbecause I've been watching
episode three so many times.
There's so many things I wantto say about episode three.
Catherine (36:26):
I know and I keep getting confused between the two
.
Andrew (36:29):
Right, right right.
Catherine (36:30):
Yeah.
Andrew (36:31):
So I think it comes.
You see more of thatrelationship in episode three
and we'll talk about that, butthat's the whole subplot.
Is them finally gettingtogether, um, and, and hopefully
we'll see that relationship uh,grow through the season,
absolutely, um, all right, sowe've already talked about a
couple of them, so let's talkabout our top three favorite
(36:53):
moments of this episode and go.
Catherine (36:56):
I might have already talked about all of them.
I'll just go through it quickly.
Oh okay, this one I didn't talkabout and I thought this was so
funny.
So Jay is telling Mahondra whathappened to her father and she
says he got run over, andMahondra's immediate response is
I'm sure you didn't mean to.
That just made me laugh.
(37:17):
She knows her so well that sheknows that Jay did it and it's
probably from the phrasing ofthe, you know, like just he got
run over, instead of sayingsomeone ran him over or like he
was hit by a car.
Like he got run over.
So Mahandra immediately is likeoh, I'm sure you didn't mean to
Nice, so that was funny to me.
Andrew (37:37):
Yes, what else?
Catherine (37:38):
Another one that I didn't talk about but that I
have written down here is andI'm not going to remember his
name again the bartender.
Andrew (37:44):
Eric Eric.
Catherine (37:46):
When Jay answers the phone.
Andrew (37:48):
Yes, this is one of my favorite moments.
Catherine (37:50):
I'm going to go into because you know a little, look
behind the curtain.
We have a whole shared documentof notes.
So I think I know what andrew'sgoing to talk about, but my
piece is a little bit differentwhat is?
yours, which is um, when shetalks about wanting to destroy
heidi and the fireworks go offin his eyes and like it was a
heavy-handed way to show thatlike he's into jay, right, but I
(38:12):
love that they're starting toestablish that like jay and eric
are interested.
Other Um, and I thought thatwas really cute.
Like she's she's so aggressive,but her saying that she wants
to destroy Heidi is like thatmoment where he's like, oh, like
he loves her.
Andrew (38:32):
She's on his side.
Yeah, which is nice.
Yeah, which I think he finds isnice because he's not from the
area, right?
So he's, he's got no friends upthere.
Catherine (38:45):
Yeah, and I mean again, I don't think this steps
on what you're going to talkabout, but I feel like and maybe
I'm just reading into it Are wegoing to find out that his
story is not the truth?
I feel like there's somethinglike why is she even calling him
?
I?
Andrew (39:03):
don't know.
Catherine (39:04):
Unless it's to, like, get divorce papers signed Could
be yeah, so anyway, um, thatwas my number two, um, and then
I just love the wholeconversation that ends in defy
the chicken.
Defy the chicken, like heclearly doesn't know what's
going on, right, because theonly person who really knows is
Mahandra.
And who's he?
Andrew (39:25):
When?
Eric, I'm sorry, okay.
Catherine (39:26):
Cause.
That's the whole conversationwhere she's talking about the
chicken and and he clearly likeshe's told him about it.
But he's like, oh, but you know, you're just talking about it
metaphorically or whatever,right?
So he doesn't know that thechicken is really talking to her
.
And yet he still ends up atdefy the chicken.
And I just thought that wasreally a sweet.
(39:47):
He's being supportive eventhough he doesn't actually
believe that she's being spokento by the chicken pin.
So those were my three.
Got it, I've got four.
I mean I.
I technically have four too,because he's the man of my list
made it, but we talked aboutthat before and we talked about
lesbian porn on basic.
Andrew (40:04):
Yes, so I'll leave that.
That's on my list, okay, so, so, so, yeah, so, so playing to
yours.
Catherine (40:10):
Here's the weird thing jay doesn't have a cell
phone right which to to imaginea 20 something not having a in
2004, especially because I gotmy first one as soon as I
graduated college, and that was98.
Andrew (40:22):
Yeah, but I think it's just more of her slacker.
Just right, Disconnect.
She's disconnected fromeverybody in her life, so I
think it just plays on on that.
So Jay borrows Eric's phone tocall her father.
So she's on the phone with herfather.
And while she's on the phonewith her father call waiting
(40:44):
beeps through and she decides toanswer it and it is Eric's
cheating wife who we learnedabout in episode one.
And Jay explains that Ericcan't come to the phone right
now because he is servicing mesexually and like it's just like
(41:05):
.
I love how blunt she is aboutit.
She's just like very matter offact, yeah, and then she tells
Eric the whole thing.
But I and again, I love that.
It's an old school Nokia.
Catherine (41:17):
Which was my first phone, a red Nokia.
I used to play Snake on thetrain.
Andrew (41:21):
The original candy bar before the.
That was like pre-flip phone.
Yeah it was.
It was pre-flip phone, yeah.
So I just loved that momentbecause I thought it was just so
funny.
She's just like because she hassuch a, she has such a.
She's so because I think she'sinto eric yeah, oh, she
definitely, and so she's veryprotective of him.
(41:42):
I think, yeah, so, so it's morethat than anything else.
Um, so that was one um.
Second of all, I just love abig mouth.
Billy bass yeah, that was agood one, I mean, that's just,
that's classic.
Take me to the river, so it'sjust like it's just, it's just,
I love it, I just, I just lovethat.
(42:02):
And he's like get off your ass.
Yep, um, so that was good.
And then, and then, my favoriteline in the hospital when yeah,
because, because jay is justlike she's so mortified and
she's like can we pretend thisjust didn't happen?
And the, the mother, goesthat's what morphine is for,
dear.
Catherine (42:26):
This is getting back to how I don't think that the
characters are portrayedconsistently.
The mother's a super successfulauthor, and that is the next
episode where we kind of findthat out.
Really, I don't know thispersonality, I don't know, so
that's all I know.
We have a section of thepodcast coming up talking about
what worked and what didn't.
(42:46):
Yes, that would be one of thethings that didn't work for me
so, so let's talk about that.
Andrew (42:51):
So let's talk about what , yeah, what didn't work for you
so I think I've talked about abunch of that you have.
Catherine (42:58):
I don't know if there's anything else, but I
just think that I feel likemaybe the I feel like maybe they
didn't really understand wherethey wanted to go with this yet
you know what.
I mean.
Andrew (43:13):
It hasn't found its legs .
Catherine (43:14):
Yeah, and I feel like they're just kind of throwing
things at the wall to see whatsticks.
Yes, and not usually thegreatest way to do it.
I mean, I feel like there areother shows and I don't know why
I keep referring to the BigBang Theory today.
I think it's because I've beentaking a bunch of naps and so I
have it on a lot.
Andrew (43:34):
I see.
Catherine (43:35):
You can.
If you are an established show,you can take a character and
change that character over time,right?
Amy Farrah Fowler is a goodexample of that, where she
starts out very similar toSheldon and then over time
becomes just a real personinstead of like something
robotic.
Right, it's jarring when you goback and see it, but because
(43:59):
the show was established, theycould get away with that.
I think because this was abrand new show, you needed to
have just much more cementedideas of who your characters
were, and I feel like theydidn't really know who anyone
was in this family other thanjay.
It's like they had jay down asa slacker, right, and everybody
(44:23):
else was just like wealthyfamily, successful.
And then they you know, sharonis lesbian.
You know, like father is doctorit's just very much.
Andrew (44:32):
They picked up tropes of a hundred percent of different
things, and and and.
Didn't flesh out the characters.
They're like this one will be alesbian, this one will be, you
know, the, the PhD student.
This one's the doctor.
Right, they're all verysuccessful in what they do, but
we have there's there's nothingbehind them.
Yeah, it's like they didn't soas, as a good D and D player,
(44:54):
they did not write a backstoryfor these, these characters, and
I think that's probably why nowremember this.
This was aired as the fourthepisode.
Yeah, so this is the last onethat aired, right, um, and I'll
be curious to see the episodesthat did not air yeah to see how
how the characters may or maynot have grown but.
(45:16):
I I completely agree that it'sof the characters may or may not
have grown, but I I completelyagree that it's um yeah they
didn't.
Catherine (45:23):
they didn't know who these people were.
Because the mother is bothsomehow vapid and caring, like
she has moments of actuallygiving a crap right, but then
she's also like have you gonegreen?
And you know?
Like it's hard for me becausethey do, and maybe this is the
big piece of it they don't seemlike real people.
Andrew (45:42):
No, it's very interesting.
Yeah, they don't.
They don't feel real yet Like Idon't feel.
I feel even from episodeepisode, episode.
We've only watched two.
I mean we watched three, but wewere in episode two Right Even
after episode two.
They're they're two completelydifferent people, almost yes,
and they're different peoplewithin the episode.
(46:04):
Yes as well.
I feel like Sharon is pretty.
Catherine (46:09):
Sharon's character is pretty consistent.
Sharon's pretty solid.
They had the nice moment in thefirst episode where, like,
Sharon and Jay kind of bondedRight and that carries through
to this episode.
Yeah, Um, you know, nope,that's the next step.
See, I get confused with theepisodes.
She's still kind of zinging Jayand stuff, but but she's also
(46:32):
like they're hanging outtogether now and they're
spending time together assisters.
I do think.
Yeah, I think of all the othercharacters, Sharon is probably
the most developed.
Andrew (46:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So Sharon, I agree that Sharonis the most developed of the.
Well, we never even really Imean, we knew, we knew nothing
about um Aaron.
Aaron in the in the firstepisode, her siblings named
Sharon and Aaron.
I did not pick that up, sharonand Aaron.
I did not pick that up, aaronand Aaron.
(47:00):
Jeez, oh, that's not good.
Um, yeah, so I love all of ournotes on this episode.
It's so funny.
So, yeah, so I, I completelyagree.
So let's talk about so that'swhat.
That's what's working and notworking so far.
Right, um, behind the scenestrivia A few things.
Catherine (47:24):
You've had some good stuff for this.
Andrew (47:26):
A lot of this.
Again credit to IMDB whenGretchen Speck-Horowitz is
handing out those couples cardsof her and her husband or Robert
.
Horowitz is handing out thosecouples cards of her and her
husband Yep oh.
Catherine (47:40):
Robert.
Robert, he has a name.
Andrew (47:41):
There it is, robert Bob.
The address is one 46, bonnieMeadow road.
Okay, new Rochelle, new York.
This address is a reference tothe Dick Van Dyke show
Interesting.
Yes, rob and Laura Petrie livedat one 48 bonnie meadow road in
new rochelle.
Okay, millie and jerry helper,apparently their address would
(48:05):
have been 146 interesting thenext door neighbor, so they were
the next door neighbors to rob,and laura petrie apparently
nice that's cool nice littlecall back there I like that.
Um, now this I I'm going to tryto play the clip off of YouTube
for this.
So, um, the character who theactress who played Gretchen spec
Horowitz in this episode, alsoplays a character named Gretchen
(48:31):
spec in the second episode ofthe series Hannibal, which again
is a Brian Fuller production.
So we're going to I'm going tosee if I can bring this up.
I got to go to.
I will credit the Redditors ofthe subreddit Wonderfalls for
(48:57):
bringing this, for showing this.
Catherine (49:02):
Any of you holding Speck Horowitz couples cards
toss them.
They no longer apply.
I'm losing the hyphen andkeeping the ring.
So there's the.
Andrew (49:12):
Wonderfalls clip Yep On Hannibal.
Can you get a prescription forGretchen Speck?
Gretchen Speck, horowitz?
Oh, it's just Speck.
We're divorced on Hannibal.
Fascinating so again.
When I first read this I'm likeoh, they just wrote in a
(49:35):
character named Gretchen.
Catherine (49:36):
Speck?
No, it's the character.
Andrew (49:43):
It's actually Gretchen speck.
Like they play the whole likelost the hyphen kept the ring,
like the whole bit.
They they tied into a handleepisode.
So that's like a.
That's a deep, deep cut.
Yep, like you've got.
You've got a.
Really like the few people thatwatched wonderfalls when it was
on, right um hey, and if you'rea Brian Fuller fan, maybe you
did.
Exactly.
Catherine (50:00):
I've watched everything he's done.
Andrew (50:02):
Maybe so, so that I that I just thought was really
clever and we talked about theDandy Warhol song yeah, we used
to be friends, yeah, which Ithink the title very apropos for
sure for this episode.
Catherine (50:17):
Oh yeah, perfect.
Andrew (50:18):
Yes, um, some of the other things that I'm just
looking through the other notesthe other little notes here, the
father wearing a Republican pin.
Catherine (50:29):
right, he must be just the way they act, like they
have to be, yeah, they have tobe, and and that would be kind
of a character trait if you'rethinking about it Like the have
to be and and that would be kindof a character trait if you're
thinking about it like their,their children of a republican
family would have been terrifiedto tell them they were gay,
right?
Uh, they wouldn't have been.
They would have been skepticalof carpooling.
(50:49):
Why would you go green, right?
I mean, that's all veryconsistent with today oh yeah.
Andrew (50:54):
And one of the other things that I loved was gretchen
refers to herself as aChristmas and Easter Jew.
Catherine (50:59):
Yeah, that was good.
You did call out the lion going.
Hmm, they have that in theintro.
I like that, that it's part ofthe intro of the show.
Andrew (51:11):
The lion is very interesting.
Catherine (51:12):
Yeah.
Andrew (51:15):
And somehow the mother is friends with all the people.
Catherine (51:20):
all the girls from high school Like yeah, that,
that's another piece that I find, and this is why I think they
don't really know who themother's character is yeah.
You have in the notes aboutEric saying that he's borderline
autistic.
Yes, and I.
I hated this because it wasvery much rain man.
Oh well, I know numbers RightLike again, looking at it from a
(51:42):
2025 perspective, it's a verynarrow definition of what an
autistic person is, or a personon the spectrum.
Andrew (51:51):
It's.
This is this is written bysomebody that that doesn't know
any people that are autistic.
Catherine (51:56):
Absolutely A hundred percent, because Andrew's son,
my stepson, is on the autismspectrum and I don't think Max
has ever looked at a box oftoothpicks on the floor and
counted them.
No you know like it just peopleare people.
It's a spectrum for a reason,and again it's a 2004
interpretation of what anautistic person is it is rain
(52:18):
man.
Andrew (52:19):
How are you borderline?
Catherine (52:19):
It's not like you're not borderline, you either but
that's exactly it.
They're on the spectrum Exactly.
Andrew (52:24):
You're not.
You're not either autistic ornot.
Catherine (52:26):
Exactly.
You are either autistic or notand you are somewhere on a
spectrum in terms of how thatimpacts your life.
Andrew (52:32):
Yes, Um, one of one of the last things I will I'll
point out is I just, I just lovewhen, when Jay walks up to
Gretchen with the, with thedrink, and just goes, I destroy
you.
Catherine (52:48):
Her heart is so not in it, oh, you know.
The other thing I wanted tomention is that I love that
Mahindra seeing how absolutelyderanged Jay seems about
destroying Gretchen is what itkind of like shines a mirror for
for Mahondra.
Andrew (53:07):
And she's like oh.
Catherine (53:08):
God, is that what I look like, right?
And then she just like goes offto like talk to friends and
stuff, cause she's like I stillhate Gretchen, but I don't want
to be that person, right.
Andrew (53:16):
Indeed.
So overall I think it was agood episode.
I really enjoyed it.
Catherine (53:22):
actually, I mean as much as I have some issues with
the writing.
I enjoyed the episode a lotSame.
Andrew (53:30):
So that covers Pink Flamingos.
Yeah, episode dos.
Technically, episode two aired,number four.
Maybe four, two, four.
So again, thank you.
Catherine (53:42):
Thank you all for listening into this episode of
seeking season two, I'd say ifyou have feedback on how we've
kind of changed up the format,please do let us know.
Yes, we check.
Andrew (53:57):
Go to again.
I love it because there is awonderful subreddit, yep, so
it's a.
It's a great place, not notsuper active, but but there are
some definite fans in there andwe did get some good feedback on
our first episode thank you.
Thank you to the listeners ofof the subreddit for providing
feedback on our first episode.
That was very helpful.
Um, what else we're we're on?
(54:19):
We're on the socials, sort ofish instagram we're on the
socials.
We're old, we are gen x.
We are gen x and I have issueswith the next episode and we'll
talk about that.
Um so, thank you everyone forlistening and we'll we'll catch
you next time.
Bye, bye.
Welcome back everyone to episode two of season one of
Seeking, season Two.
Good job.
Catherine (00:28):
Thank you Proud of you.
Andrew (00:30):
I am your host, andrew, and this is my co-host, slash
ex-wife.
I'll let you introduce yourself.
Hi, I'm Catherine.
Catherine (00:42):
Hi Catherine.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good, other than us.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good.
Andrew (00:45):
Other than us both being utterly exhausted at the moment
.
Catherine (00:48):
And I have very little voice left.
Andrew (00:51):
So we're going to use it on this episode and we're going
to talk about.
So let's start with this seasonof the podcast.
We are talking about the showWonderfalls.
Catherine (01:05):
Yes, we are.
Andrew (01:06):
Which was from 2004.
Just a quick recap because wetalked about it last, episode
2004,.
They only aired four out of the13 episodes.
We're still in things thatactually showed up on TV, still
things that actually aired ontelevision.
So the whole point of thispodcast is to talk about shows
(01:27):
that were canceled after oneseason or didn't even make it a
full season, and and how we feelthat they they possibly
deserved.
I guess we'll determine, didthey deserve a season two or or
not?
So so far I I enjoyed the pilotepisode.
I enjoyed this episode as well,which was episode two, which is
called Pink Flamingos.
However, this is the one thataired fourth.
Catherine (01:51):
Yeah, I hate when they do this, where they air
things out of order, so itdoesn't really make sense.
I just was just watching thatdid this and I was annoyed
because, oh, okay, I'm about totell on myself big bang theory.
Yes, so there was, I waswatching.
I don't know I put on big bangtheory when I'm gonna take a nap
(02:13):
on the couch, got it, and I waswatching something and it was
like in one episode of theseason, um, like penny and
leonard were together, and thenin the very next one, they
weren't.
Oh weird, Because they airedthings out of order.
I hate when they do that.
Andrew (02:30):
Yeah, it's a little odd because, because you were, we
were introduced to GretchenSpeck Horowitz, one of her high
school classmates, in the pilotepisode, right, and Gretchen
Speck Horowitz shows up again inthis episode, which is
technically episode two, so itcarries over her, her character
(02:52):
carries over into this episode.
But what was I going to say,her character carries over into
this episode, so it's, it's anatural transition from episode
one to to episode two.
But at least on the DVD theycorrect that, yeah, which is
nice.
Catherine (03:12):
And if you watch it on YouTube, it's in the correct
order.
Andrew (03:16):
Right.
So that is that the episode iscalled Pink Flamingos.
Yep, and the kind of the briefsynopsis of this one is so.
It starts out um an accident acar you know called car accident
an accident.
Um jay's father ends up in thehospital.
(03:37):
That kicks off a subplot.
Um, jay is well, gretchen,gchen is, because she's going on
her pilgrimage to Israel whenthe 10th reunion would happen.
So she's having asix-and-a-half-year reunion.
Catherine (03:59):
Yeah, as you do.
Andrew (04:01):
As you always do, as you do, as you always do.
And so Gretchen is trying torope Jay into helping her set up
and prep this reunion, so she'strying to get sucked into that.
A couple quick notes on theepisode.
It was directed by Todd Hollandand he directed about five
(04:23):
episodes of Wonderfalls actually.
It was directed by Todd Hollandand he directed about five
episodes of Wonderfalls actually, which I thought was
interesting.
So he's been around there for awhile.
He's directed tons of stuffwritten and directed a ton of
stuff over the years.
The episode itself was writtenby and this was interesting
(04:45):
Gretchen J Berg and aaronharbert harbert's okay, if you
look on imdb, it gives you acomplete different set of
writers, but if you watch theepisode, this is who they say
wrote this right, wrote thisepisode.
But, um, gretchen berg well,gretchen and aaron are writing
partners and they've beenwriting partners ever since, um,
they attended Northwesternuniversity.
(05:05):
So they, they, they just havewritten a ton of things.
Um, I think he was.
I think they came in on thelate, the late end of nine, oh,
two, one, oh.
Interesting he was like he was,like they were like both writers
I think she was a scriptsupervisor and he was a writer
on like the last two seasons of90210 was that around, when um
(05:26):
kelly had a drug problem anddonna and david got married?
I have no clue.
I didn't, I didn't, I didn'twatch.
I watched some of 90210, but Ididn't get into the.
Catherine (05:38):
I I tapered off after the, you know, those last
seasons um I listened to afantastic rewatch podcast called
Again With this, with two ofthe founders of Television
Without Pity Right, and theywent through the entire series,
wow 90210.
Andrew (05:57):
Oh my God, Interesting.
So yeah, so Gretchen was awriter-producer on Wonderfalls.
She shows up again as theco-executive producer of Pushing
Daisies.
She was also the showrunner,interestingly enough, of some of
the early seasons of Star TrekDiscovery.
Brian Fuller, the creator ofWonderfalls, is also credited as
(06:18):
being the creator of Star TrekDiscovery.
However, he left before it wentto series.
So I don't know if there's somecreative differences or what.
So, as I say, don't blame himfor the bad Klingon makeup.
Any Star Trek Discovery fansout there will know what I'm
(06:40):
talking about.
The Klingons looked reallyweird in Discovery.
Fortunately they went back to.
The Klingons looked reallyweird in Discovery.
Fortunately they went back tothe usual Klingon makeup for
Strange New Worlds, which is apseudo spinoff of Discovery.
But anyway, I digress.
All right, let's kick it off.
(07:00):
So that's kind of the intro.
So let's kick it off.
Let's that's kind of.
That's kind of the intro.
So let's kick it off.
Let's talk about what are someof the.
Let's talk about the main plot.
So what's, what's the?
The main plot, which is the?
Basically, the pink flamingos,yep, are, kick kick this off
right at the very beginning.
And what do they say?
Catherine (07:19):
get off your ass get off your ass.
Andrew (07:22):
Now, this is so so that.
So that's the whole thing.
The pink flamingos say get offyour ass.
Jay's in the car doesn't getoff her ass.
Father has the accident becausethe car rolls over him.
Catherine (07:33):
Right, how do you run over somebody from the
passenger seat?
That's what her sister asks.
Oh yeah, how do you run oversomebody from the passenger seat
?
Andrew (07:44):
Well, Jay is apparently successful in doing that.
Catherine (07:47):
Yep.
Andrew (07:48):
So Jay is tasked with helping Gretchen throw the six
and a half year reunion, however, it's so, interestingly enough.
So the, the muses, is whatthey're, what they're known as
the, the voices of the Variousthings, various things.
Various animals, things thattalk to her.
(08:08):
Initially they say, get offyour ass Right.
And then at some point theytell Jay to destroy Gretchen,
right.
So this will help Gretchenreevaluate her marriage.
And here's what I findinteresting, though We'll get
into that in a little bit.
(08:28):
I don't want to get into thedetails, but that's the main
plot.
Is there anything else that you?
Catherine (08:35):
No, I don't think so that pretty much covers that.
That's the main plot.
Andrew (08:39):
The six and a half year reunion is the main plot, jay
helping Gretchen with that.
The subplot kicked off by theaccident is because Jay's sister
yeah.
Sharon, sharon, sharon, sharon.
Has this, this love interest?
(09:00):
The woman who was the ex-wifeof the EPS driver?
It doesn't even.
I don't know if he justdisappears, oh poor bitch.
I know.
So he's gone.
He's gone, and Sharon is tryingto in some way get on a date
(09:24):
with this woman.
Catherine (09:26):
Yep.
Andrew (09:27):
And so the whole kind of subplot is them trying to get
together because Sharon istaking care of the father and so
the other woman thinks thatshe's not interested, like she's
just putting her off.
Right so it becomes a wholething, and so that's kind of the
subplot of them trying to geton a date.
Catherine (09:48):
Yeah wacky lesbian drama.
What's that Wacky lesbian drama.
Andrew (09:52):
Wacky lesbian drama.
Yes, let's go, lesbians.
Catherine (09:56):
Let's go lesbians.
Andrew (09:59):
I love that so much.
Billy on the street.
Alright, so that's the plot,the subplot, that really is the
two things that are happening inthis episode.
So all right, so let's talkabout, let's break down the main
plot.
Catherine (10:16):
Yes.
Andrew (10:17):
So get off your ass.
Here's my first problem withthis episode.
Okay, let's talk about this.
So the muses tell her to getoff her.
Tell Jay to get off her ass.
Right, if she actually got offher ass.
Catherine (10:32):
Yeah, her father might've died from a blood clot.
Andrew (10:36):
So that's the whole thing.
So what happened?
So, for anyone who's watched it.
So the father he goes in thehospital because he breaks
multiple fractures in his leg,but they discover a blood clot
in his leg, and so thisinadvertently saves his life.
But had Jay gotten off her ass?
If she had listened to themuses then and gotten off her
(10:58):
ass, her father probably wouldbe dead.
Catherine (11:00):
But here's the thing.
So I don't think it's a problemwith the episode because, since
this is aired in the properorder and this is episode two, I
think the muses are kind ofcounting on the fact that Jay is
probably not going to do whatthey tell her to immediately.
Andrew (11:16):
That's that's pretty bold of them to like be like oh,
she won't believe us anyway.
Catherine (11:20):
Look what she did in the first episode.
Andrew (11:22):
I understand you know.
Catherine (11:23):
Well, look what she did in the first episode.
I understand, so I feel likemaybe it's a calculated risk on
their part that she's going tobe like I'm not getting out of
the car, which is exactly whatshe did.
Andrew (11:33):
Right, I understand.
I understand she's stilladjusting to the muses.
She's like no, this is nothappening again.
Catherine (11:40):
Wire, inanimate objects.
Speaking to me Exactly.
Andrew (11:44):
A whole flock of pink flamingos.
Catherine (11:46):
Are those flamingos on their lawn or the neighbor's
lawn?
That's a bigger question for me.
Andrew (11:50):
Well, here's the thing they are not a pink flamingo
family.
Well, here's the thing shelooks out both windows and
they're there, and they're there.
Catherine (11:57):
Are the flamingos moving?
Andrew (12:02):
I don't, I don't know.
Is she hallucinating?
The pink flamingos.
Catherine (12:05):
Is she hallucinating the whole thing?
Andrew (12:07):
Right, exactly, is this going to be a new heart
situation?
I just watched that cliprecently, but I don't know.
So the whole thing is confusingfor me Because, again, if she
had listened to them, then thiswould have been, this would have
(12:27):
been a tragic episode yeah, wewould have lost bill sadler, and
that would have been super sad,right?
Catherine (12:32):
super sadler, super sadler, oh, sorry, so that's the
thing.
Andrew (12:39):
So like so again.
Okay, so, okay, so, let's.
So that's.
Let's.
So like, so again, okay, so,okay, so, let's.
So that's, let's get that outof there.
So so now.
Now she has to get off her ass.
Catherine (12:50):
Right.
Andrew (12:51):
And she finally agrees.
So so we get to.
She finally agrees to to helpGretchen.
Catherine (12:58):
Right.
Andrew (12:59):
Because and this, this brings up a lot of what's the
word I'm looking for kind ofconflict for Jay Sure, because
she's preparing the name tagsfor the reunion.
And so she's cutting out thecopies of the yearbook and she's
(13:23):
cutting out her section of theyearbook and it's cutting out
her, her section of the yearbook.
And it's like no clubs, no,nothing, right, like she, she
doesn't, didn't participate inin anything.
So it's like again we go backto the.
You know, her sister's asuccessful lawyer, um, her
father's a doctor, her mother'san author, um, we don't know
what.
At this point, we don't knowwhat the brother does.
(13:45):
Well, he's, yeah, quite yet wediscover that in episode three
next episode next episode.
Catherine (13:49):
We'll talk about that um my issue with that though,
is jay went to brown.
Right, she went to brown.
You don't get into brown if youhave no clubs, no, whatever
like she could not have possiblybeen as disaffected in high
school right as she is now.
So I think that's a miss ontheir part, actually, Because I
feel like if, like, she wouldn'thave gotten into Brown if she
(14:12):
wasn't an achiever.
You can't just be smart Likeshe's obviously intelligent.
Andrew (14:16):
Right.
Catherine (14:17):
But like to get into an Ivy.
You can't just be smart.
Andrew (14:20):
Well, so what you have to have.
So let's talk about this.
Her father's a doctor, hermother's an author, did they?
Catherine (14:26):
You think they bought her way in?
Andrew (14:27):
Did they buy?
Maybe Now we're uncovering,opening a whole can of worms
here Conspiracy.
Oh my God, what happened?
How did Jay get into Brown?
That's a very good point,though she did nothing in high
school.
Catherine (14:41):
Okay, wait, I'm forgetting her name now.
Rebecca, the one who bought herkid's way into school.
Oh, the fake, her name's notRebecca.
She played Aunt Becky on.
Andrew (14:54):
Fall Out, I know, I know , lori Loughlin, lori Loughlin
yes, so do her parents, know,lori Loughlin.
Right, maybe this was like theprecursor to the buying your way
into school.
Catherine (15:07):
I don't know.
I mean, it just seemsimpossible to me because, like
you, know I was an achiever andI went to a good school and I
was in a massive amount of clubs.
I was the editor of thenewspaper, I played soccer, I
worked after school.
Like you had to have activities, right, you couldn't just do
(15:28):
nothing and get into Brown.
It's just not happening.
Andrew (15:31):
It's not happening, so very good point, thank you.
Catherine (15:35):
Yeah, every now and then.
Andrew (15:38):
That's a good pickup.
So again, somehow Jay got intoBrown, Right.
We don't know how or why, butclearly she didn't herself earn
her way in, perhaps based on herperformance in high school.
Catherine (15:59):
I feel like it's just a miss in the writing.
Yeah.
Andrew (16:03):
I mean because they started out that way.
Catherine (16:05):
Yeah.
Andrew (16:06):
I think they started out and then they as her going to
brown and they got to thisepisode and was like oh well,
how do you?
Catherine (16:13):
and they're really like leaning into the oh.
Jay is just disaffected.
She's different from her family, but I feel like they would
have been better served to makeit like jay was an achiever
until she got out of college andkind of lost her way right that
would.
Andrew (16:28):
that would have been a much better play, I think, but
then you wouldn't have thisepisode.
Because that's the whole thing,because she was hoping to wait
for the 10-year reunion to havesomething that she could
actually be proud of saying thatshe had accomplished.
Catherine (16:44):
I still think you could have done this episode,
because, even if she, had beenan achiever in high school.
She could have.
Andrew (16:49):
Yes, and you still could have had this episode because
even if she had been an achieverin high school, thank you.
What happened?
Yes, and you could have had.
Catherine (16:52):
You still could have had the rivalry with Gretchen,
because Gretchen is just anawful character.
Andrew (16:58):
I like.
Catherine (17:02):
Why the?
Andrew (17:04):
the the Jewish population is the largest
minority in there in theirgraduating class.
Catherine (17:09):
My favorite well, one of my favorite lines in this
episode was the mother turningto Jay and saying Jay, stop
teasing.
You've seen Fiddler?
That's.
The only reference point forany knowledge of Jewish people
is Fiddler on the Roof Fiddleron the Roof.
Andrew (17:28):
So yeah, so there's definitely some ways they could
have done that, done herbackstory a little bit better.
Catherine (17:34):
I think Maybe they should have asked me to write
this one.
Maybe, yeah, 2004, catherinewould have been happy to do that
.
Andrew (17:41):
I'm sure you would have.
Yeah, you would have loved that.
I would have.
So okay, so, with all thoseissues notwithstanding, she
helps.
Well, here's the thing.
So her friend Mahandra, janet,Janet, casual racism, yes, she's
out to destroy, she's out todestroy Gretchen.
Catherine (18:10):
Right.
Andrew (18:10):
Because well, for one thing, on school photo day.
Catherine (18:16):
Oh God the relaxer.
Andrew (18:18):
The activator.
Catherine (18:19):
Oh the activator.
Yes.
Andrew (18:20):
That's right.
Fortunately it was BlackHistory Month.
Catherine (18:24):
Oh my God.
According to Jay Poor Mahandrawith her giant frow.
Andrew (18:28):
Oh man, casual racism.
Casual racism throughout thisepisode.
Mahondra has a chip on hershoulder for Gretchen, so she's
not going to help Jay preparefor the six and a half year
(18:49):
reunion, so she's got her ownbeef with Gretchen.
So, anyway, they get to thereunion and Gretchen's very
effusive about her marriage.
Catherine (19:12):
And what is?
Andrew (19:13):
your favorite line?
Wait which one?
Catherine (19:14):
The man of the dreams .
When the Marine says to her sohe's the man of your dreams, and
she replies he's the man of mylist, exactly.
Sure, he checks all the boxes.
She doesn't actually love him.
Andrew (19:24):
She doesn't actually love him and she realizes that.
Catherine (19:29):
Well, I think for somebody like Gretchen, the idea
of being married is moreimportant than who you marry and
whether it's a good marriage.
Andrew (19:35):
Right, and one of the interesting things is so, before
she has that realization, is itthe chicken on the hair clip is
the first one to tell her todestroy?
Gretchen, tell Jay to destroy.
Gretchen, tell Jay to destroy.
Catherine (19:50):
Gretchen I think so.
Andrew (19:54):
I can't remember which muse it is that tells no.
Catherine (19:56):
I'm pretty sure it's the chicken, because then it
comes out with the other linethat I love Defy the chicken.
Andrew (20:02):
Defy the chicken.
So yeah.
So Jay keeps thinking thatshe's got to help Gretchen, help
Gretchen, yeah.
So Jay keeps thinking thatshe's got to help Gretchen, help
Gretchen.
And then there's a seismicshift in what the muses say.
Now they're like destroyGretchen.
She's like wait what?
She's very confused.
Catherine (20:26):
I also thought and I'm backtracking a little bit
but when Gretchen has theget-together in the hotel to
meet the husband, yes, how?
And Jay kind of says this toowhy are Jay Mahondra whose name
she doesn't even know and Jay'smother the only guests at this
(20:48):
thing and Jay's mother?
Andrew (20:49):
the only guests at this thing, Because I don't think I
think any friends that Gretchenhad were superficial friends.
Catherine (21:01):
Well, duh, because look at Gretchen.
Andrew (21:03):
Exactly so.
I think her relationships arevery superficial, and so these
are probably the only peoplethat will still talk.
That's still like actuallyacknowledge her.
Yeah, whether it's for good orbad, I feel like they're the
only people that are still.
Catherine (21:19):
What did she call them?
Her posse or her squad?
I forget.
Andrew (21:24):
I don't think squad was a thing at that point.
I don't think squad was a thing, probably posse, yeah.
So yeah, they're supposed tomeet the husband.
The husband's running late, henever quite shows up.
Catherine (21:39):
Well, because he gets in an accident, he gets into a
car accident.
Right, which is also well,that's so.
That's see.
This is why I think the musesknow more than we think they
know.
Andrew (21:49):
Okay.
Catherine (21:50):
Because Jay calls the husband to harass him to get
him there and that causes theaccident, right, and him not
arriving and Gretchen having theconversation with the
stalkerish Marine Againterrifying when you look at it
in 2025.
(22:11):
Right, I mean, it was probablyscary in 2004, but it was like
played for comedy, right,whereas now it would be like
Holy crap, like get arestraining order against this
guy.
Andrew (22:22):
I just I just see this happening on a Dateline episode
with I've been over, but we'vebeen watching a lot of this with
Keith Morrison, yeah.
Catherine (22:37):
Oh, episode with I've been over, but we've been
watching a lot of this withkeith morrison.
Yeah, ah, that pesky dna welland he had like he's he's in the
military, which means he hasweapons.
Like that's not ptsd, yeah well, and that's not who you want to
be like obsessed with you nowell, you don't want anyone
really to be that level ofobsessed he, he was really
creepy.
Andrew (22:48):
Yeah, it really was.
He's the man of my list, that'sright, so yeah, so I mean
that's kind of the whole plot.
So then she realizes, soGretchen realizes that again she
doesn't really love Mr Horowitz, mm-hmm, and she kind of has
(23:09):
her her moment of liberation andand checks out which I, which
is great, I mean, which is goodfor her.
I mean she realizes that and,while she's still young, um, and
, and, and and moves on, which Ithought was really interesting.
Um, anything else about the,the main, the main plot that you
(23:31):
thought was interesting.
Catherine (23:32):
Can we talk about we used to be friends, because
there's a few things I want tosay about that.
Andrew (23:39):
Well, I was going to get to that.
I was going to get to that insome of the trivia.
Catherine (23:42):
Okay, well, because it's not just used once.
Did you notice that part?
Yeah, it's weird.
It's throughout the episode soI was wondering if it was the
music we're talking about, right, the, so should I just talk
about it now?
let's just talk about it now,okay, so the theme song to
veronica mars we used to befriends by the dandy warhols.
Dandy warhols plays in thisepisode multiple times, right,
(24:06):
my question when I heard it thesecond time was was this
actually the original music usedor did they slap it in again
because they couldn't get therights to something else when
they did the dvds?
Because that happens a lot withthese shows where, like, they
have to like slot in somethingelse because they can't get the
rights I don't know I meandawson's creek has a whole other
(24:30):
theme song on the dvds right,oh wow really yeah, I know,
isn't that weird?
that is weird and it's a suckysong.
It has to be.
I don't want to wait, likeinteresting, but anyway yes, um,
I just thought it wasinteresting that it showed up so
many times, because it's like2004, like there's plenty of
music you could have used.
That was not that, but it wasalso just unless they're very
(24:52):
low budget well, I think theyprobably were very low budget,
um, but it also just sticks outso much because, well for me,
because I'm a huge veronica marsfan, so I mean, as soon as I
hear that song, that's the onlything I associated with.
Just like, if I see a brightyellow pathfinder, all I think
of is Logan Eccles, xterra.
Was it Xterra?
(25:12):
It was a Nissan Xterra.
Still see them out there,though.
I know it's weird, I think thesame thing.
Andrew (25:18):
Logan Eccles.
Logan Eccles, there you are.
I find it interesting becauseit was both.
Because Veronica Mars was 2004as well, right, so this was a
big year for the Dandy Warhols.
Catherine (25:32):
A big year for the Dandy Warhols in general, I
think.
Andrew (25:35):
That was it.
They peaked.
Catherine (25:41):
They peaked in 2004, and then that was it.
Okay, yeah, sorry, that was theonly other thing.
Andrew (25:44):
Yeah.
Catherine (25:46):
That I wanted to talk about for that piece of the
episode.
Andrew (25:51):
All right, so let's talk about the subplot.
Yep, so that was the mainstoryline.
So let's go back, rewind backto the beginning.
When Jay does not get off herass, she reaches to close the
driver's side door, puts the carin neutral I guess neutral and
starts rolling backwards as herfather is picking up the
(26:12):
recycling cans and proceeds toroll right over him, putting him
in the hospital with multiplefractures.
So that's the lead up to thenhe gets out of the hospital and
Sharon picks him up from thehospital and brings him home and
is kind of like nursing himback to health, like just
(26:34):
keeping an eye on him, right,because I can't remember where
the mother is.
She's out doing something, ohyeah.
Catherine (26:40):
No, I don't remember.
Didn't he not tell the motherhe was coming home from the
hospital because he didn't wanther to cancel whatever plan she
had?
Andrew (26:47):
Yeah, something like that.
Catherine (26:48):
This is another piece of the writing that I just
don't, I didn't love.
They paint the mother to besuperficial and kind of awful
and then they they seem to betrying to to redeem that a
little bit.
I think they probably went alittle too hard on how shitty
(27:09):
the mom is, Um, because they'retrying to walk it back.
When he said that, I didn'tbelieve it for a second.
Right, that woman is not goingto do anything she doesn't want
to do and she's certainly notgoing to take time out of her
day to go pick him up from thehospital.
Of course she's going to sendone of the kids Right and she's
probably going to send Jay,because they think she's going
to send one of the kids rightand she's probably going to send
(27:31):
jay because they think she'suseless.
Andrew (27:32):
Um, so that was jay is the one that did run him over.
Catherine (27:34):
So because she is useless, because who would not
get out of the car to help theirfather with the trash cans?
Why does she need flamingos totell her to get off her ass?
Because she is.
She is the prototypical slacker.
Also, why do they have so manytrash cans?
Andrew (27:48):
they are generating a lot of.
And that was recycling right.
I think it was half recycling,half trash.
I vaguely remember, like fourcans, two recycling, two trash.
Catherine (28:00):
I grew up in a family of four.
This is a family of five, okay.
But only three of them areliving at home because the
brother lives with the parents.
Okay, I grew up in a family offour.
We never had more than twotrash cans.
Ridiculous, you also grew up ina family of four.
I would imagine you never hadmore than two trash cans.
Andrew (28:19):
No, I don't ever imagine that, but I mean, it's just
again, it's for the sake ofvisuals.
I guess, To make it look biggerthan I don't know.
I mean, I guess Right To makeit look bigger than I don't know
.
Catherine (28:31):
I mean, I know we're nitpicking it because we're
doing a podcast.
But I'm just like usually thiskind of stuff doesn't stand out
to me and in this showparticularly, for some reason it
really stands out to me.
Interesting.
I feel like a lot of it is kindof sloppy writing, I mean.
In general I really liked thisepisode so I hate to be kind of
like ripping on it like this,but I do think there were a lot
(28:53):
of kind of holes that they couldhave done a better job with.
Andrew (28:57):
I agree, I'm trying to get to there, I'm trying to
remember the actresses name, the, the, the girlfriend of Sharon.
Catherine (29:09):
Oh, I don't know I.
Andrew (29:14):
I don't, I don't.
I don't see her credited on ohBeth.
Catherine (29:18):
Oh, that's right.
I should have remembered that,since that's my sister's name.
Andrew (29:22):
Yeah, that's all right.
Um, so Beth is.
So the whole subplot is thatSharon and Beth are well they
they started out to, so thiswill bring up something, okay.
So in the subplot, I find itfascinating how we were still at
a time when we're like right onthe cusp of when smoking was
(29:46):
still like an okay thing.
Catherine (29:48):
Right.
Andrew (29:50):
And like not so acceptable Because Sharon's just
walking around with a pack ofcigarettes.
Catherine (29:59):
Yeah.
Andrew (30:00):
Which I thought was interesting and the mother comes
out with the smoking cessationbrochure and that's how the
mother meets the the other woman, beth.
Right Cause Sharon and Beth aretalking to them and Sharon's
like I don't know her and themother's like you were just
(30:21):
talking to her.
What I said was I didn't knowshe would be here.
I'm like oh, okay.
Catherine (30:27):
And the mother's just like okay, and then they go
into the carpool thing, whichwas another great line, carpool,
have you gone green?
Andrew (30:34):
Exactly, See again.
Catherine (30:35):
Horrified.
Andrew (30:42):
Have you gone green?
Um, so anyway.
So the the whole subplot is isis sharon and beth trying to
trying to find time to go on a?
I don't say go on a date, butget together, get together hang
out, hang out, hook up.
I was gonna say hookup yeahPrior to Netflix and chill yeah.
So that's the whole subplot.
(31:03):
So it's just on and off.
Sharon feels this obligationthat she's got to take care of
her father, but she still isvery interested in Beth and
wants to go see her.
So it's this back and forththat she's fighting with.
Eventually she just, I guess,invites her over to the house.
Catherine (31:21):
Cause she cause she's watching that she, she, drugs
the dad drugs.
Andrew (31:24):
the dad she's like cause she sees the bottle of pills
and it's like she has this idea,yeah, like the little light
bulb goes off over her head andshe's like, oh, I have an idea
over.
And so the father, she likelike just loopy out of his mind.
I, I love the ending.
I love the ending when they'relike making out on the floor
(31:45):
yeah of the living room and cutover to the father just standing
there wearing his underwear hehad his teddy whities and he's
like and they're just, they'refrozen, and he doesn't say a
word because he is so.
Catherine (32:01):
Drugged out of his mind.
Well, he clearly came down thestairs on the broken leg in a
cast.
Oh my God, so he is dopey, arehis toes blue?
Andrew (32:11):
That was like the other.
That was like the running gagabout how to know if he was okay
.
Are my toes blue?
No, they're fine.
Okay, good, oh my God.
So, yes, I think it's one ofwhen we talk about like our
favorite moments.
In this one, this was one of myfavorite moments.
Catherine (32:29):
Yeah.
Andrew (32:29):
At the very end that he and Jay are pulling out of the
because he goes for a checkup.
I think.
Catherine (32:37):
Yeah, it's like a yeah, Some kind of a followup.
Andrew (32:39):
Yeah, and he's like did you know there was lesbian porn
on basic cable?
Catherine (32:44):
I have that.
I have that.
Did you know our basic cablecomes with lesbian porn?
I had that written down too,cause I thought that was so
funny, so good.
It's another piece of it thatbothered me a little bit.
Why is that?
I love not that part of it.
Well, to an extent.
Okay, let me backtrack.
I will talk about that partfirst when Beth is basically
(33:05):
like oh, I'm not a lesbian, likeI know bisexuals existed, like
she just seems so.
Oh, like I'm not, you know.
Like, yeah, like I, I'm not.
You know like yeah, oh, yeah, Ihooked up with a girl in
college.
I was in a sorority, duh it.
It's the way that any kind oflike queer existence was handled
(33:30):
in the early two thousands.
Yeah, and it was just like okay, yeah, she likes men.
She also clearly likes womenbecause she's pursuing Sharon,
right, okay, so you're bisexual,right.
Why is this?
It was?
You know?
Again, it's played for humor,and I get it Right, but
especially at a time when youweren't seeing gay characters on
(33:53):
TV, sure, and you see howdifficult being a lesbian is for
Sharon, clearly like she isdeep in the closet and what,
like almost 30.
Andrew (34:06):
According to the next episode, 35, I am not 35.
Yeah, so.
Catherine (34:14):
I mean, you know old enough that like it shouldn't
matter, but obviously it does,and I do get that whole coming
out of the closet piece Right,but I just didn't love the way
they played with Beth'ssexuality.
Yeah.
Andrew (34:28):
Again, it was, it was the time.
Catherine (34:33):
Well, and that's the thing, Like, and that's part of
why we're doing this, right,like you look back and it's kind
of like okay, okay, here's howthings have changed in 20 years.
Yeah, um, so I thought that wasinteresting, but no, then the
other piece I was going to talkabout is just the relationship
between jay and her father,which I love the way it's
portrayed in this episode.
Um, it's a very kind of like,even though she's seen as the
(34:55):
screw-up of the like, sheobviously has a special
relationship with her dad.
Yeah, but again and I know thepilot has a lot to do but again
in the pilot you did not getthat Right.
You truly like just thought thewhole family freaking hated her
, right, um, so that was alittle like, a little jarring
for me that it went so rapidlyfrom.
He's the guy just yelling likehave you had an orgasm?
(35:19):
To?
Um, you know like, oh, but wehave to go get what.
Was it Waffles or pancakes?
Andrew (35:25):
pancakes, pancakes.
Catherine (35:26):
Yeah, Sorry.
I've watched mission impossiblethree times recently and, um,
because it has the guy fromseverance in it.
Every time he comes on screen Ijust yell waffle party.
So I'm very fixated on wafflesright now.
Oh yeah, milchak's in it,fascinating.
Yeah, he's a.
He's a submarine commander,excellent.
It's amazing and everybodylaughs when he comes on screen
(35:48):
because all anybody sees thisman as this Milchak, because
that's his breakout role, Right?
But yeah, sorry so pancakes.
I yeah, sorry so pancakes.
I mean I think it's reallysweet and I hope that that
relationship kind of continuesthroughout the series.
Yeah, and that comes from, Ithink, just me having that kind
of relationship with my dad.
Andrew (36:09):
There's so many things.
So today we're recording twoepisodes, right, because we're
going to also talk in the nextepisode about episode three.
So there's so many thingsbecause I've been watching
episode three so many times.
There's so many things I wantto say about episode three.
Catherine (36:26):
I know and I keep getting confused between the two
.
Andrew (36:29):
Right, right right.
Catherine (36:30):
Yeah.
Andrew (36:31):
So I think it comes.
You see more of thatrelationship in episode three
and we'll talk about that, butthat's the whole subplot.
Is them finally gettingtogether, um, and, and hopefully
we'll see that relationship uh,grow through the season,
absolutely, um, all right, sowe've already talked about a
couple of them, so let's talkabout our top three favorite
(36:53):
moments of this episode and go.
Catherine (36:56):
I might have already talked about all of them.
I'll just go through it quickly.
Oh okay, this one I didn't talkabout and I thought this was so
funny.
So Jay is telling Mahondra whathappened to her father and she
says he got run over, andMahondra's immediate response is
I'm sure you didn't mean to.
That just made me laugh.
(37:17):
She knows her so well that sheknows that Jay did it and it's
probably from the phrasing ofthe, you know, like just he got
run over, instead of sayingsomeone ran him over or like he
was hit by a car.
Like he got run over.
So Mahandra immediately is likeoh, I'm sure you didn't mean to
Nice, so that was funny to me.
Andrew (37:37):
Yes, what else?
Catherine (37:38):
Another one that I didn't talk about but that I
have written down here is andI'm not going to remember his
name again the bartender.
Andrew (37:44):
Eric Eric.
Catherine (37:46):
When Jay answers the phone.
Andrew (37:48):
Yes, this is one of my favorite moments.
Catherine (37:50):
I'm going to go into because you know a little, look
behind the curtain.
We have a whole shared documentof notes.
So I think I know what andrew'sgoing to talk about, but my
piece is a little bit differentwhat is?
yours, which is um, when shetalks about wanting to destroy
heidi and the fireworks go offin his eyes and like it was a
heavy-handed way to show thatlike he's into jay, right, but I
(38:12):
love that they're starting toestablish that like jay and eric
are interested.
Other Um, and I thought thatwas really cute.
Like she's she's so aggressive,but her saying that she wants
to destroy Heidi is like thatmoment where he's like, oh, like
he loves her.
Andrew (38:32):
She's on his side.
Yeah, which is nice.
Yeah, which I think he finds isnice because he's not from the
area, right?
So he's, he's got no friends upthere.
Catherine (38:45):
Yeah, and I mean again, I don't think this steps
on what you're going to talkabout, but I feel like and maybe
I'm just reading into it Are wegoing to find out that his
story is not the truth?
I feel like there's somethinglike why is she even calling him
?
I?
Andrew (39:03):
don't know.
Catherine (39:04):
Unless it's to, like, get divorce papers signed Could
be yeah, so anyway, um, thatwas my number two, um, and then
I just love the wholeconversation that ends in defy
the chicken.
Defy the chicken, like heclearly doesn't know what's
going on, right, because theonly person who really knows is
Mahandra.
And who's he?
Andrew (39:25):
When?
Eric, I'm sorry, okay.
Catherine (39:26):
Cause.
That's the whole conversationwhere she's talking about the
chicken and and he clearly likeshe's told him about it.
But he's like, oh, but you know, you're just talking about it
metaphorically or whatever,right?
So he doesn't know that thechicken is really talking to her
.
And yet he still ends up atdefy the chicken.
And I just thought that wasreally a sweet.
(39:47):
He's being supportive eventhough he doesn't actually
believe that she's being spokento by the chicken pin.
So those were my three.
Got it, I've got four.
I mean I.
I technically have four too,because he's the man of my list
made it, but we talked aboutthat before and we talked about
lesbian porn on basic.
Andrew (40:04):
Yes, so I'll leave that.
That's on my list, okay, so, so, so, yeah, so, so playing to
yours.
Catherine (40:10):
Here's the weird thing jay doesn't have a cell
phone right which to to imaginea 20 something not having a in
2004, especially because I gotmy first one as soon as I
graduated college, and that was98.
Andrew (40:22):
Yeah, but I think it's just more of her slacker.
Just right, Disconnect.
She's disconnected fromeverybody in her life, so I
think it just plays on on that.
So Jay borrows Eric's phone tocall her father.
So she's on the phone with herfather.
And while she's on the phonewith her father call waiting
(40:44):
beeps through and she decides toanswer it and it is Eric's
cheating wife who we learnedabout in episode one.
And Jay explains that Ericcan't come to the phone right
now because he is servicing mesexually and like it's just like
(41:05):
.
I love how blunt she is aboutit.
She's just like very matter offact, yeah, and then she tells
Eric the whole thing.
But I and again, I love that.
It's an old school Nokia.
Catherine (41:17):
Which was my first phone, a red Nokia.
I used to play Snake on thetrain.
Andrew (41:21):
The original candy bar before the.
That was like pre-flip phone.
Yeah it was.
It was pre-flip phone, yeah.
So I just loved that momentbecause I thought it was just so
funny.
She's just like because she hassuch a, she has such a.
She's so because I think she'sinto eric yeah, oh, she
definitely, and so she's veryprotective of him.
(41:42):
I think, yeah, so, so it's morethat than anything else.
Um, so that was one um.
Second of all, I just love abig mouth.
Billy bass yeah, that was agood one, I mean, that's just,
that's classic.
Take me to the river, so it'sjust like it's just, it's just,
I love it, I just, I just lovethat.
(42:02):
And he's like get off your ass.
Yep, um, so that was good.
And then, and then, my favoriteline in the hospital when yeah,
because, because jay is justlike she's so mortified and
she's like can we pretend thisjust didn't happen?
And the, the mother, goesthat's what morphine is for,
dear.
Catherine (42:26):
This is getting back to how I don't think that the
characters are portrayedconsistently.
The mother's a super successfulauthor, and that is the next
episode where we kind of findthat out.
Really, I don't know thispersonality, I don't know, so
that's all I know.
We have a section of thepodcast coming up talking about
what worked and what didn't.
(42:46):
Yes, that would be one of thethings that didn't work for me
so, so let's talk about that.
Andrew (42:51):
So let's talk about what , yeah, what didn't work for you
so I think I've talked about abunch of that you have.
Catherine (42:58):
I don't know if there's anything else, but I
just think that I feel likemaybe the I feel like maybe they
didn't really understand wherethey wanted to go with this yet
you know what.
I mean.
Andrew (43:13):
It hasn't found its legs .
Catherine (43:14):
Yeah, and I feel like they're just kind of throwing
things at the wall to see whatsticks.
Yes, and not usually thegreatest way to do it.
I mean, I feel like there areother shows and I don't know why
I keep referring to the BigBang Theory today.
I think it's because I've beentaking a bunch of naps and so I
have it on a lot.
Andrew (43:34):
I see.
Catherine (43:35):
You can.
If you are an established show,you can take a character and
change that character over time,right?
Amy Farrah Fowler is a goodexample of that, where she
starts out very similar toSheldon and then over time
becomes just a real personinstead of like something
robotic.
Right, it's jarring when you goback and see it, but because
(43:59):
the show was established, theycould get away with that.
I think because this was abrand new show, you needed to
have just much more cementedideas of who your characters
were, and I feel like theydidn't really know who anyone
was in this family other thanjay.
It's like they had jay down asa slacker, right, and everybody
(44:23):
else was just like wealthyfamily, successful.
And then they you know, sharonis lesbian.
You know, like father is doctorit's just very much.
Andrew (44:32):
They picked up tropes of a hundred percent of different
things, and and and.
Didn't flesh out the characters.
They're like this one will be alesbian, this one will be, you
know, the, the PhD student.
This one's the doctor.
Right, they're all verysuccessful in what they do, but
we have there's there's nothingbehind them.
Yeah, it's like they didn't soas, as a good D and D player,
(44:54):
they did not write a backstoryfor these, these characters, and
I think that's probably why nowremember this.
This was aired as the fourthepisode.
Yeah, so this is the last onethat aired, right, um, and I'll
be curious to see the episodesthat did not air yeah to see how
how the characters may or maynot have grown but.
(45:16):
I I completely agree that it'sof the characters may or may not
have grown, but I I completelyagree that it's um yeah they
didn't.
Catherine (45:23):
they didn't know who these people were.
Because the mother is bothsomehow vapid and caring, like
she has moments of actuallygiving a crap right, but then
she's also like have you gonegreen?
And you know?
Like it's hard for me becausethey do, and maybe this is the
big piece of it they don't seemlike real people.
Andrew (45:42):
No, it's very interesting.
Yeah, they don't.
They don't feel real yet Like Idon't feel.
I feel even from episodeepisode, episode.
We've only watched two.
I mean we watched three, but wewere in episode two Right Even
after episode two.
They're they're two completelydifferent people, almost yes,
and they're different peoplewithin the episode.
(46:04):
Yes as well.
I feel like Sharon is pretty.
Catherine (46:09):
Sharon's character is pretty consistent.
Sharon's pretty solid.
They had the nice moment in thefirst episode where, like,
Sharon and Jay kind of bondedRight and that carries through
to this episode.
Yeah, Um, you know, nope,that's the next step.
See, I get confused with theepisodes.
She's still kind of zinging Jayand stuff, but but she's also
(46:32):
like they're hanging outtogether now and they're
spending time together assisters.
I do think.
Yeah, I think of all the othercharacters, Sharon is probably
the most developed.
Andrew (46:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So Sharon, I agree that Sharonis the most developed of the.
Well, we never even really Imean, we knew, we knew nothing
about um Aaron.
Aaron in the in the firstepisode, her siblings named
Sharon and Aaron.
I did not pick that up, sharonand Aaron.
I did not pick that up, aaronand Aaron.
(47:00):
Jeez, oh, that's not good.
Um, yeah, so I love all of ournotes on this episode.
It's so funny.
So, yeah, so I, I completelyagree.
So let's talk about so that'swhat.
That's what's working and notworking so far.
Right, um, behind the scenestrivia A few things.
Catherine (47:24):
You've had some good stuff for this.
Andrew (47:26):
A lot of this.
Again credit to IMDB whenGretchen Speck-Horowitz is
handing out those couples cardsof her and her husband or Robert
.
Horowitz is handing out thosecouples cards of her and her
husband Yep oh.
Catherine (47:40):
Robert.
Robert, he has a name.
Andrew (47:41):
There it is, robert Bob.
The address is one 46, bonnieMeadow road.
Okay, new Rochelle, new York.
This address is a reference tothe Dick Van Dyke show
Interesting.
Yes, rob and Laura Petrie livedat one 48 bonnie meadow road in
new rochelle.
Okay, millie and jerry helper,apparently their address would
(48:05):
have been 146 interesting thenext door neighbor, so they were
the next door neighbors to rob,and laura petrie apparently
nice that's cool nice littlecall back there I like that.
Um, now this I I'm going to tryto play the clip off of YouTube
for this.
So, um, the character who theactress who played Gretchen spec
Horowitz in this episode, alsoplays a character named Gretchen
(48:31):
spec in the second episode ofthe series Hannibal, which again
is a Brian Fuller production.
So we're going to I'm going tosee if I can bring this up.
I got to go to.
I will credit the Redditors ofthe subreddit Wonderfalls for
(48:57):
bringing this, for showing this.
Catherine (49:02):
Any of you holding Speck Horowitz couples cards
toss them.
They no longer apply.
I'm losing the hyphen andkeeping the ring.
So there's the.
Andrew (49:12):
Wonderfalls clip Yep On Hannibal.
Can you get a prescription forGretchen Speck?
Gretchen Speck, horowitz?
Oh, it's just Speck.
We're divorced on Hannibal.
Fascinating so again.
When I first read this I'm likeoh, they just wrote in a
(49:35):
character named Gretchen.
Catherine (49:36):
Speck?
No, it's the character.
Andrew (49:43):
It's actually Gretchen speck.
Like they play the whole likelost the hyphen kept the ring,
like the whole bit.
They they tied into a handleepisode.
So that's like a.
That's a deep, deep cut.
Yep, like you've got.
You've got a.
Really like the few people thatwatched wonderfalls when it was
on, right um hey, and if you'rea Brian Fuller fan, maybe you
did.
Exactly.
Catherine (50:00):
I've watched everything he's done.
Andrew (50:02):
Maybe so, so that I that I just thought was really
clever and we talked about theDandy Warhol song yeah, we used
to be friends, yeah, which Ithink the title very apropos for
sure for this episode.
Catherine (50:17):
Oh yeah, perfect.
Andrew (50:18):
Yes, um, some of the other things that I'm just
looking through the other notesthe other little notes here, the
father wearing a Republican pin.
Catherine (50:29):
right, he must be just the way they act, like they
have to be, yeah, they have tobe, and and that would be kind
of a character trait if you'rethinking about it Like the have
to be and and that would be kindof a character trait if you're
thinking about it like their,their children of a republican
family would have been terrifiedto tell them they were gay,
right?
Uh, they wouldn't have been.
They would have been skepticalof carpooling.
(50:49):
Why would you go green, right?
I mean, that's all veryconsistent with today oh yeah.
Andrew (50:54):
And one of the other things that I loved was gretchen
refers to herself as aChristmas and Easter Jew.
Catherine (50:59):
Yeah, that was good.
You did call out the lion going.
Hmm, they have that in theintro.
I like that, that it's part ofthe intro of the show.
Andrew (51:11):
The lion is very interesting.
Catherine (51:12):
Yeah.
Andrew (51:15):
And somehow the mother is friends with all the people.
Catherine (51:20):
all the girls from high school Like yeah, that,
that's another piece that I find, and this is why I think they
don't really know who themother's character is yeah.
You have in the notes aboutEric saying that he's borderline
autistic.
Yes, and I.
I hated this because it wasvery much rain man.
Oh well, I know numbers RightLike again, looking at it from a
(51:42):
2025 perspective, it's a verynarrow definition of what an
autistic person is, or a personon the spectrum.
Andrew (51:51):
It's.
This is this is written bysomebody that that doesn't know
any people that are autistic.
Catherine (51:56):
Absolutely A hundred percent, because Andrew's son,
my stepson, is on the autismspectrum and I don't think Max
has ever looked at a box oftoothpicks on the floor and
counted them.
No you know like it just peopleare people.
It's a spectrum for a reason,and again it's a 2004
interpretation of what anautistic person is it is rain
(52:18):
man.
Andrew (52:19):
How are you borderline?
Catherine (52:19):
It's not like you're not borderline, you either but
that's exactly it.
They're on the spectrum Exactly.
Andrew (52:24):
You're not.
You're not either autistic ornot.
Catherine (52:26):
Exactly.
You are either autistic or notand you are somewhere on a
spectrum in terms of how thatimpacts your life.
Andrew (52:32):
Yes, Um, one of one of the last things I will I'll
point out is I just, I just lovewhen, when Jay walks up to
Gretchen with the, with thedrink, and just goes, I destroy
you.
Catherine (52:48):
Her heart is so not in it, oh, you know.
The other thing I wanted tomention is that I love that
Mahindra seeing how absolutelyderanged Jay seems about
destroying Gretchen is what itkind of like shines a mirror for
for Mahondra.
Andrew (53:07):
And she's like oh.
Catherine (53:08):
God, is that what I look like, right?
And then she just like goes offto like talk to friends and
stuff, cause she's like I stillhate Gretchen, but I don't want
to be that person, right.
Andrew (53:16):
Indeed.
So overall I think it was agood episode.
I really enjoyed it.
Catherine (53:22):
actually, I mean as much as I have some issues with
the writing.
I enjoyed the episode a lotSame.
Andrew (53:30):
So that covers Pink Flamingos.
Yeah, episode dos.
Technically, episode two aired,number four.
Maybe four, two, four.
So again, thank you.
Catherine (53:42):
Thank you all for listening into this episode of
seeking season two, I'd say ifyou have feedback on how we've
kind of changed up the format,please do let us know.
Yes, we check.
Andrew (53:57):
Go to again.
I love it because there is awonderful subreddit, yep, so
it's a.
It's a great place, not notsuper active, but but there are
some definite fans in there andwe did get some good feedback on
our first episode thank you.
Thank you to the listeners ofof the subreddit for providing
feedback on our first episode.
That was very helpful.
Um, what else we're we're on?
(54:19):
We're on the socials, sort ofish instagram we're on the
socials.
We're old, we are gen x.
We are gen x and I have issueswith the next episode and we'll
talk about that.
Um so, thank you everyone forlistening and we'll we'll catch
you next time.
Bye, bye.
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