July 8, 2025 • 46 mins
A wind-up penguin's cryptic command spirals into a bizarre quest to help a mysterious woman hiding inside a barrel at The Barrel restaurant. "Bring her back," the penguin demands, sending Jaye and bartender Eric on a mission they interpret as returning a runaway nun to her religious calling. But nothing in Wonderfalls is ever that straightforward.
Sister Katrina, as she calls herself, has fled her convent for reasons unknown, leading Jaye to enlist her theologian brother Aaron in an attempt to rekindle the nun's fading faith. The ensuing clash between Presbyterian and Catholic worldviews delivers unexpectedly hilarious moments, revealing the writers' somewhat tenuous grasp on religious denominations while still managing to explore profound questions about spiritual connection and divine communication.
Meanwhile, Eric finds himself in a makeshift bathroom stall "confessional" with Father Scofield, seeking guidance about forgiveness and closure regarding his failed marriage. This subplot offers one of the episode's most genuine moments, as Father Scofield delivers surprising wisdom: forgiving someone doesn't mean you must continue a relationship with them – a nuanced perspective that resonates beyond religious contexts.
As the story unfolds, we discover that the penguin's command isn't about returning Sister Katrina to her faith at all, but about reuniting Father Scofield with a child he had unknowingly fathered has been failing to pay child support. This revelation highlights the show's central theme: how Jaye's supernatural guidance often solves very human problems, despite her constant misinterpretations.
"Wound Up Penguin" exemplifies Wonderfalls' unique blend of quirky humor, spiritual questioning, and unexpected human connections. Through bathroom confessionals, denominational debates, and animated figurines, the show invites us to consider how we interpret the signs and messages in our own lives—and whether divine guidance might come through the most unlikely channels.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew (00:10):
welcome back everyone again to seeking season two.
I am your host, andrew, alongwith my co-host, katherine.
There she is, here.
I am hello, right across thetable from me.
Catherine (00:25):
I already talked about the rain.
Andrew (00:30):
Again, we're recording episodes back to back.
So this is one of two episodeswe're recording today.
So shit's about to go down.
Yes, it'll get bad.
It's going to go downhill veryfast, I'm afraid.
So today, so again, this seasonof Seeking Season 2, which is
Season 1 of Seeking Season 2,hopefully we don't get canceled.
(00:53):
So the whole premise of SeekingSeason 2, let me see how many
times I can say Seeking Season 2.
I don't think we can getcanceled.
Catherine (01:02):
Like we'd have to make the decision to cancel
ourselves.
Andrew (01:05):
Well, someone could cancel us, like if we did
something awful Like what Idon't know.
Catherine (01:13):
Like episode five, I was going to say like be a
writer on Wonderfalls.
Andrew (01:17):
Oh my god.
So anyway, if you haven'tfigured it out already, Seeking
Season 2 covers seasons of TVshows that got canceled after.
That doesn't make sense.
Seeking.
Catherine (01:38):
Season 2 covers shows that only got one season Bingo.
Therefore Seeking is secondseason yes and we will.
Andrew (01:47):
We will judge judge them worthy of a second season or
not yeah, um, after these twoI'm uh, I'm leaning in a in a
specific direction wonderfalls.
I can well, it's can see, we,we.
So here's the thing, so as aviewer.
(02:07):
So here's what happened withwith Wonderfalls.
Wonderfalls only aired fourepisodes and then it was
canceled, apparently, except inCanada.
Apparently, apparently, someCanadian broadcast company, I
think, bought the rights to itand aired all of them, aired all
the episodes, but here in theus, we, only, we only saw the
four.
However, I guess studio execswere probably privy to all the
(02:31):
episodes and maybe knew what wascoming, and and that's why they
canceled it after after four,because when we're going to
cover in this episode episodefour of of falls, which is wound
up penguin, and then nextepisode is episode five, so
wound up penguin was the lastone to air on television.
Episode five is crime dog.
(02:53):
That will be next episode, andit's starting to become evident
why this got canceled, why theywere canceled.
Well, here's the thing, thoughwe're we're looking again yeah,
we're looking at it in in, inthe lens of 2025.
(03:14):
So I don't know.
I don't know if that's coloringour judgment at all or or not,
on why this was canceled, but Ithink, I think I think when we
dive into these, we're going totalk about the writing and how,
how erratic the writing is andhow, um, I would say I don't say
the writing is.
I don't want to say I don't wantto be so judgy and say it was
poor writing, but it was veryinconsistent, yeah, and I think
(03:38):
at the least, like we'reobviously seeing a lot of things
that we consider objectionablethrough a 2025 lens right a lot
of that I still think I wouldhave found objectionable then,
um, maybe less so, but stillobjectionable, but I do think at
this point it's, and it's notlike the dialogue necessarily.
Catherine (03:56):
The dialogue is pithy , it's witty, it's.
The interpersonal relationshipsare just so erratic.
And I mean, I don't know if youwant to jump into the episode,
but the first thing I thoughtbefore this episode started was
I thought Lee Pace was a maincharacter.
(04:18):
Why have we barely seen himthis season?
Andrew (04:20):
Right, and then he's like majorly in this episode and
the next one which is verystrange because and we'll, we'll
get to it talk a little bit, alittle, we'll get to it.
When we talk about the triviaof this episode.
Okay, um, but some of thereasons why maybe the pacing
(04:42):
between episode to episode isoff and things like that, but
I'll, I'll bring that up later.
Okay, um, but yeah, let's divein.
Catherine (04:49):
So this is episode four, which I think really was
episode aired is episode threewhich makes even less sense,
yeah, when you see the freakingchameleon in her trailer singing
in episode three right, but heisn't actually introduced until
episode four.
Right the way they aired it.
Andrew (05:08):
Weird so that's.
That's the whole thing, so I'llget to it later, but we'll talk
about I I hate to spoil my ownpodcast, but we'll.
We'll talk about the wound up,wound up penguin later.
Okay, anyway, this episodedirected again by Todd Holland
who did a bunch of the episodes.
Yep, liz Garcia was the writer.
Okay, I thought I had somedetails in here about Liz Garcia
(05:33):
, but I don't as a writer hercredits include Dawson's Creek,
wonder Falls and Cold Case.
She was a co-producer on coldcase.
Catherine (05:45):
Yeah, for for several seasons in 2010, she co-created
the tnt series memphis beatstarring jason lee.
Never heard of it, uh yeah, butjason lee is a favorite of
kevin smith's love jason.
Andrew (05:56):
Heard of him.
Catherine (05:58):
We've met jason lee my name is earl we held the door
for jason lee and hecomplimented your sweater yeah,
which was, I think.
Andrew (06:05):
I think they just said it was the 20th anniversary of
my name.
Is Earl oh really.
Cause I followed Jason Lee onInstagram and he had he had like
there is, there was a gettogether of the cast of my name
is Earl and I think I think theysaid it's been um, I think it's
been 20.
Catherine (06:20):
If I recall, correctly.
Well, it looks like the lastthing that happened with Liz
Garcia is that she signed anoverall deal with Entertainment
One in 2021 and disappeared.
Andrew (06:33):
Interesting, I don't know.
So there's that.
Catherine (06:41):
So nice knowing you, liz Garcia Nice knowing you, liz
Garcia, what Nice knowing you.
Andrew (06:49):
Nice knowing you.
Another TV show that gotcanceled, all because of you.
Well, she did write technicallythe fourth episode.
I mean I guess it was the airedthird, but I blame Liz, I blame
Liz Garcia, for that's justmean.
Catherine (07:05):
Okay, sorry liz, I apologize.
She's definitely listening tothis podcast ever listen to this
episode.
Andrew (07:11):
I'm I'm so sorry, that's why we get canceled.
See, this is this is this iswhy we get canceled.
So anyway, um also starringguest.
Starring carrie Preston.
Catherine (07:23):
Yay.
Andrew (07:24):
Love Carrie Preston.
Catherine (07:26):
Tell you you've got to watch Ellsbeth.
Andrew (07:28):
It's a great show, I know you keep telling me that I
should Love it, I should watchEllsbeth, and so I heart Carrie
Preston, not only because she'sa tremendous actress, but also
because of who she's married toMichael Emerson, michael Emerson
, ben Linus yes, the man and Iloved them both in Person of
Interest when they played loveinterests which was so cute.
Catherine (07:50):
He's on Elsbeth.
Andrew (07:52):
Is he on?
Catherine (07:53):
Elsbeth, yeah, the second season, and I cannot
spoil it for you, don't?
I love when they act againsteach other.
It's great.
Andrew (08:01):
Just a quick question, without spoiling it does he play
a bad guy?
Yes he does Sweet.
He was on that show Evil yes aswell, which I I started
watching.
We started watching thattogether, I think.
Catherine (08:13):
I think so, yeah, and then just never, never.
Andrew (08:16):
I might have to get back to that.
Catherine (08:28):
Um, of them both.
So so anyway, carrie prestonstars as katrina.
Yeah, katrina, the nun sisterkatrina, like that's ever been a
thing, sister katrina.
There was a lot of and and wecan talk about this later, but
one of my clearly not catholics.
Andrew (08:34):
Was there a clue in the catholic right?
Catherine (08:36):
misunderstanding of catholicism in general.
I was like what's happening?
Andrew (08:41):
well, well, I loved when the father, which is Darren,
right, yes, darren, and he'sconvincing her why
Presbyterianism is better thanCatholicism.
Catherine (08:58):
I literally in my notes, I have written down LOL,
presbyterians versus Catholics.
Andrew (09:05):
It's amazing, it's just like a whole, like I have the
down.
Lol, presbyterians versusCatholics.
It's amazing, it's just like awhole, like I have the law.
So so this is one of my topthree moments and I'll just say
it right now when he goesPresbyterians cause cause he
talks about when, when, whenpraying, you have to like go
through the priest.
You know you can't just talklike straight to God.
And he goes Presbyterianprayers go straight to the
source, right to JC.
Catherine (09:25):
And I was like why do they think that the mother said
they have to go through a saint?
I'm like no, that's not.
Oh, my God.
Andrew (09:34):
Well, no, Well, well, here's the thing.
Source many years of Catholicschool.
But here's the thing.
That's probably, that'sprobably the extent of what
Presbyterians know aboutCatholicism, Fair, so so maybe,
maybe the writing is is on pointfor for what a Presbyterian
knows about Catholicism.
Good job, Liz Garcia.
Excellent job, Well played soanyway so let's so let's talk
(09:59):
about the kind of synopsis ofthe episode.
Yep, so Jay and bartender EricYep, so Jay and bartender Eric
Yep From New Jersey, yes, whichwhich I mean they've mentioned
before, but I mean it.
It starts to come to yeah,comes to fruition.
Catherine (10:20):
I just sorry, Is Laura texting you?
I just, I just get the text.
Andrew (10:24):
I get the text from the couch.
As a former Presbyterian, Iknew very little about
Catholicism.
Catherine (10:29):
Thank you for clarifying that.
Thank you for confirming that,laura.
Andrew (10:32):
Thank you, now we know.
See, now we've got the source.
So, anyway, so kind of thesynopsis of this episode.
Jay and Eric are trying to findthe woman, so they can do.
They hear a noise Like what wasit?
What prompted them to look inthe barrel?
Catherine (10:51):
Okay, so he was talking about how there were
rats in the restaurant, becauseEric is living in the restaurant
Right and they hear a noise andthen they think it's a rat.
So they go look in the barrel.
And it was a very good line.
I didn't write it down, but Idid think it was funny when she
said, well, that's a really bigrat because there's a person
living in the barrel.
Andrew (11:11):
yes, so they discover someone living in the barrel, um
, who, who busts out becausethey the the barrel rolls gets
knocked over.
Yeah, the person hiding thebarrel runs out.
And this is, I think, when,when does, when does jay get the
message from the wound uppenguin?
(11:34):
Cause, that's, that's one ofthe things, cause I think
they're going through her.
Catherine (11:38):
It's when they're going through her stuff.
Andrew (11:39):
They're going through her stuff, yeah, and then the
the penguin says bring her backbring her back, yeah, and then
that, that, that, that thatgrows to bring her back to him
later.
But bring her back is what thepenguin says.
And then there's a wholeconversation that Eric and Jay
(11:59):
have.
So they go out trying to findthis woman who they think is a
runaway.
They don't know her backstory,find out that she's a nun on the
run.
They think she's a nun on therun.
Catherine (12:11):
They think she's a junkie first.
Oh, that's right, because I'mtrying to remember what Jay said
, and the way she pronounced itmade me laugh.
Well, she asked if she wasfreebasing in the barrel, but it
was like the way she pronouncedfreebasing was like freebasing,
it was wrong, and I was likethis is a person who's never
(12:32):
heard drug language before.
Andrew (12:34):
Right Well, has never free based before, apparently.
Catherine (12:38):
Well, I obviously have been freebasing all the
time, and that's why I know howto pronounce it.
Exactly I don't even know whatfreebasing is, ask Richard Pryor
.
Okay, he's dead.
Andrew (12:50):
Because he was freebasing.
That's what almost killed him,by the way, he's dead Because he
was freebasing.
Oh God, that's what almostkilled him, by the way.
Really, look it up, so anyway.
Catherine (12:58):
I won't do that right now.
I'll look it up later.
Andrew (12:59):
I as well, don't know what freebasing is.
It has something to do with, Ithink cocaine.
Sure, I think it's what it is.
I think it's cocaine.
Catherine (13:15):
Now I have to look up , let's look up freebasing.
I don't know, hey Siri, how doI freebase?
You know, I use my personalphone for work, now too.
Andrew (13:21):
This reminds me of office space when they were
looking up how to launder money.
Money laundering how do Ifreebase?
Catherine (13:29):
Freebasing refers to a method of drug use primarily
associated with cocaine thatinvolves converting a drug from
its hydrochloride salt form intoits pure base form.
Ooh, that's the base infreebasing.
This process makes the drugsmokable and more potent.
And then it says freebasingdrugs is extremely dangerous.
(13:52):
Increased potency and addictionrisk, health risks, including
lung damage, heart problems,respiratory failure and
increased risk of overdose andchemical hazards.
They're highly flammable.
And then free-bracing and crackcocaine.
While initially distinctprocesses free-bracing cocaine
and and crack cocaine Whileinitially distinct processes
(14:14):
freebasing cocaine and smokingcrack cocaine have become
largely interchangeable terms.
Crack cocaine is a form offreebase cocaine produced using
baking soda.
It makes a crackling sound whenheated, hence the name.
Don't do drugs, kids.
Well, don't do coke.
Andrew (14:31):
Don't do coke.
Catherine (14:35):
Everything else is fine.
I I mean, you can smoke pot.
I'll endorse smoking pot, Ijust don't there you go, I don't
cook don't.
Don't take the what I justfound on on wikipedia and turn
it into an excuse to freebase.
No, please do not do that.
There's only like fourlisteners of this podcast to
begin with.
I'd prefer not to kill one ofthem with.
Andrew (14:53):
No, please don't yeah, please don't do that, okay, all
right, so I have no idea wherewe left, where we were prior to
do you?
Catherine (15:03):
we were talking about how they found her in the
barrel and they were talkingabout the rats and then the
penguin um started talking whenthey were going through her
stuff.
Andrew (15:11):
Bring her back.
Yes, so that's where we were.
So then Jay goes bring her backRight, and then Eric goes you
want to bring her back?
Catherine (15:21):
Yeah.
Andrew (15:22):
And then it was like a whole thing, and then he was
like he had this whole likemoment of like oh, she's such a
saint, right, you're a goodperson.
Catherine (15:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's such a saint that, Right,
you're a good person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then it really brings outher being a bad person.
Brings out the good person.
That's inherently an Eric Right.
Andrew (15:40):
So the whole main plot is them.
What she thinks is bringingSister Katrina back to the
priest or back to Back to God.
Catherine (15:51):
Back to God.
Get her to go back to theconvent that she.
Back to God.
The capital H, the convent thatshe ran away with.
Andrew (15:55):
Exactly so so that's her whole thing, right?
So then she tries to.
What was the?
I'm trying to think of what shewas.
What was she trying to do toget sister Katrina to find
religion again?
I can't remember what it was.
Catherine (16:11):
Yeah, why am I suddenly blanking on that?
Oh, wasn't it eventually to um,basically exercise the things
that have been talking to jay?
Andrew (16:21):
oh, that's right.
Yeah, because she she confessed.
She confessed to um katrinathat she was hearing the voices
telling her to do things.
Catherine (16:32):
And she kind of I think Jay told her to kind of
like make it proof thatsomething exists, right, but of
course Katrina goes immediatelyto demons.
It's the devil, it's gotta be.
Andrew (16:46):
Satan, it's gotta be the devil, absolutely, could it?
Catherine (16:50):
be Satan.
Yes, so it be Satan.
Andrew (16:53):
Yes, so then Katrina goes into the whole exorcism
thing and yada, yada, yada andwe go down that route.
Now the so let's talk aboutthat, so let's go into, let's go
into this whole plot.
Let's really, really.
I mean we've kind of broken itdown already.
(17:13):
But yeah, again, it's thepenguin, the wind up penguin,
that's telling her to to bringher back.
So Jay immediately assumes it'sthe nun bringing her back to G
dash D.
Catherine (17:31):
Yeah, which was funny .
Andrew (17:34):
Okay, g-d, sure, sure, so, anyway.
So Jay is trying to bring herback, finding some way to bring
her back to God, to have herhave this kind of religious
moment.
I mean, they think that she's a, they think she's a homeless
person at first, but then andthen they decide she's a
(17:57):
prostitute.
Catherine (17:58):
She's a prostitute because of the priest who's
chasing her the goth, the gothpimp, her goth pimp.
I have that written down.
Yes, same.
And then my next question, andI have a very similar question
about episode five.
Yes, why is the priest such adick?
I don't know I did grow upCatholic and I have never met a
priest who would talk to anyonethe way this guy's like this is
(18:22):
where they clearly have nevermet Catholic people.
I can, so here, here's the thing, so, so yeah, so, or they at
least haven't met clergy,because a priest would not talk
to someone like that.
Andrew (18:37):
No, there's a lot of stereotyping and for comedy
purposes I can see why you mightstereotype someone, but he
doesn't really fit thestereotype of a caring priest.
No, which is who I would thinkyou would be.
But here's the thing I've metmean priests but I haven't met
is who I would think you wouldbe, and there I.
Catherine (18:52):
But here's the thing I've met mean priests, but I
haven't met a priest I woulddescribe as a dick.
Andrew (18:57):
But remember, remember, he said at one point he had a
lot of transgressions in hispast.
Sure, because he wasn't alwayson the priestly path, sure.
So maybe he's just a little bitharder than than a lot of
people that have grown up goingto college and going right into
the seminary and he was astraight dick.
Catherine (19:17):
It was a hundred percent asshole behavior.
Andrew (19:21):
I agree.
I'm just saying, maybe thatmaybe that's why, maybe that's
why they wrote him that way.
Catherine (19:26):
I think it's more to do with.
I've never met a priest or anun, so let's go with this.
You know there was therequisite.
Nuns are scary joke which,having grown up Catholic yes
they are.
Oh, there we have it.
I mean there are one or twothat I've liked in my time, but
for the most part nuns areterrifying.
Like, honestly, sister Katrinawas way nicer than she should
(19:49):
have been.
Andrew (19:51):
Sister Katrina was a very naive, I think, and I
really want to get into thisbecause this is having grown up
in the church and beenindoctrinated in all that
religious fanfare yes, thatreligious fanfare.
It's very interesting thatKatrina said God had never
(20:16):
spoken to her and she said atsome point God doesn't speak to
people.
And I think that's when Jayopened up about the inanimate
objects speaking to her, becauseshe said maybe it's God, maybe
it's something else, butsomething speaks to me yeah and
I I found it fascinating.
(20:37):
I mean, I don't think whetherwhether you believe in god, a
higher power, or or just or justare spiritual or or or
non-religious entirely, I mean Ithink I think things definitely
speak to people.
So I don't, I find it hard tobelieve that nothing has spoken
(21:00):
to Katrina in her life.
Like I feel like I feel like alot of things have spoken to me,
just just being out in nature,yeah.
Like it's just sometimes a.
A I don't want to say religiousexperience, but like a, a
spiritual experience and I meanmine is is much closer to like
an actual religious experience.
Catherine (21:21):
But I remember while I was in college and I did go to
a jesuit college I remember,not all the time but being in
the chapel and just feeling likethe wonder of that community of
everybody being together for acommon thing.
It was very like there wasdefinitely something that spoke
(21:42):
to me in that.
But no, I mean, do I think Godis like whispering in people's
ears?
No, he's not texting.
Andrew (21:50):
Right.
So I mean, like, mean, like,how do you like?
I guess maybe she just doesn'tfeel like she's, she has a
calling, but I mean again.
I mean I've been to liveconcerts.
Um, I would, I would dare saythat you two at the sphere was
it was a was a near religiousexperience for me um Sedona for
(22:12):
me.
Sedona, you know, going to anart museum and just standing in
front of an amazing painting andtrying to figure out how
somebody's mind saw that and wasable to translate that onto a
canvas, like there's so manydifferent things that speak to
people, many different thingsthat that, that get that that
(22:36):
speak to people.
Um, I just found it kind of sad, a sad commentary that like
nothing.
I mean, maybe she was hopingfor something more concrete and
was missing a lot of the othersigns out there that were
actually speaking to her.
Catherine (22:48):
But it's like I think , even when she's talking about
how much she loves the convent,that in itself is like Right.
That kind of that community,exactly it's the reason I think
you become a nun.
Andrew (23:05):
Right, or you get the habit and it lets you fly.
I mean because that's.
Catherine (23:11):
I think that's only if you're Sally Field, right,
yeah, man.
Andrew (23:15):
I know I would totally become a nun if I could fly that
would be Fairly certain you donot meet the criteria.
Nope, no, I do not, oh boy, soanyway.
No, I do not, oh boy, so soanyway.
So the the deep, the deep divethen at the end of this whole
(23:38):
narrative is it really wasn'tbring her to him, katrina, to,
um, to god it, it was, it was we, we find out in the end again,
father Schofield, who had this,this, this past, comes to find
(23:59):
out that he had a child.
Yep, and because it was, it wasthe whole thing about when, um,
um, was it the wind-up?
No, it was the lion.
The lion told her to break thetaillight.
Catherine (24:12):
Yep.
Andrew (24:14):
And her car rolled into the car, broke the taillight.
It was Father Schofield's car.
Then he got pulled over by acop for having a taillight out,
found out that he was beingthere was like a warrant for
unpaid child support or whatever.
Catherine (24:30):
He was a deadbeat dad .
Yeah, it was the woman tryingto find him because she didn't
know where to yeah, so she was.
Andrew (24:37):
She was just looking in in all the wrong places for
father scofield, which I findodd.
Like how do you, how do you notfind somebody?
It's not like he was unfindable, it wasn't like he was under
operating under an assumed nameyeah, and I mean nuns may take a
different name.
Catherine (24:53):
They don't always, but they can um, but priests
don't they would keep the sameright name.
Andrew (24:59):
So I thought that was yeah, well, but it's also the
early 2000s.
Catherine (25:03):
Okay, fair, so it's not like you had, you know,
white page.
Well, I guess you did havewhitepagescom, but it probably
wasn't as good as it is nowright.
He might have just been harderto find, true.
Yeah, Well, I mean, cause Iguess we don't know where they
where they came from Right Causethey were getting back on a
train, but we don't know whereto Right.
I did think that was interesting, that you're at the Niagara
(25:26):
Falls train station and they'relike New Jersey Hoboken.
I'm like New Jersey Hoboken,I'm like absolutely not no, no,
no, start with Patterson.
Yeah, absolutely not.
Okay, so there we have evenjust research train lines Like
my God like to just do a littlebasic research, research goes
right from Patterson to Hoboken.
Like obviously, clearly, well,and from Niagara Falls to
(25:51):
anywhere in this area, the onlyplace you would be able to go
and you'd probably have tochange trains is New York city.
Andrew (25:56):
You go to New York city.
Well cause, then it would dropin Newark Penn station.
Yes, so it'd be New York nothey didn't say of all the
places, no it's not Newark,cause that's, that's, I think
that's Amtrak.
Well, has a bunch of stops, butyeah, I mean, those are the,
those are the main stops.
Is new york city um newark?
Catherine (26:14):
and philly yep, so just bad writing again, just
sloppy, sloppy yeah not even bad, right?
Andrew (26:22):
I mean, they didn't even do the research, yeah, just
none, it's just bad.
Catherine (26:25):
They were just like what are cities in new jersey
right exactly?
Andrew (26:28):
let's, let's look at the globe, see what cities we can
find and put them in the script.
Oh my god, so that's the mainplot to this I found.
Do you have any other notes on?
not on the main one now so thesubplot for me is really this
kind of I don't want to say itwas feelings of guilt, but Eric
(26:53):
the bartender and hisinteractions with um father
Schofield, which I thought wasreally interesting because he
has this um, why I think he'sstarting to have true feelings
for Jay, yeah, so I think that's, I think that's what's kind of,
what kind of started this.
And then he was like, well,what about my marriage?
(27:17):
And I don't think it was afeeling of guilt, but I think it
was.
You know that's over, but haveI really closed that chapter in
my life?
And then he talks aboutforgiveness and if I forgive her
, does that mean I'm going backto her?
Yeah, and father scofield makesthat, makes the good point just
because you forgive somebodydoesn't mean you, you continue
(27:40):
on with that right that personum, he wants someone to tell him
the answer and that's justsimply not going to happen.
No, but I I thought it was, Ithought I honestly thought it
was a really great scene.
Yeah, the two of them in thebathroom stalls, yeah, which is
the vision of kind of theconfessional, the makeshift
confessional.
Catherine (28:01):
So I thought the visual aspect of it was I did
like that yeah.
Andrew (28:04):
That I thought was really good, one of the
highlights I think of.
I think the subplot was reallyfor me a highlight of this
episode.
Yeah, I think the subplot wasreally for me a highlight of
this episode.
Yeah, really digging deep intorelationships and understanding.
You know, every new beginningcomes from some other
(28:26):
beginning's end, and well, youknow why.
So remember, that's how thiswhole episode started, right,
because they were singing 99Bottles of Beer on a Wall, yeah.
And then she goes to the barand he says you don't have to go
home, but you can't stay here.
Oh, semi-sonic closing time.
Thank you See, I tied that allup in a nice little bow, very
(28:47):
nice, nice little bow.
Catherine (28:49):
Can we talk about one more thing, let's please?
Uh, lee pace, because lee pacesuddenly is a character.
I know lee pace.
Andrew (28:57):
I guess we could talk about how attractive lee paces
was it this episode or the otherepisode where his shirt was
largely unbuttoned?
Catherine (29:04):
I think it was the next one, wasn't it?
Where they go to canada?
Andrew (29:07):
yeah, like yeah, I'm like, I like Lee he's got his
like, he's like he's likehanging out with like barely a
button shirt on.
I'm like what are you doing,dude?
Catherine (29:19):
But it's like suddenly and I'm assuming that
somewhere in the trivia you'regoing to say that he was filming
something else and that's whyno, oh, really no Interesting, I
have none of that in the trivia.
So all of a sudden, jay hasthis great relationship with her
brother Right, and she'stalking about oh, he has all
these theology degrees and blah,blah, blah, and that's the
(29:41):
first thing she tries is havinghim talk to Katrina Right, but
apparently doesn't tell him thatshe's a Catholic nun, ex-nun.
Andrew (29:52):
As.
Catherine (29:52):
Katrina likes to point out and does lead me to
one of my favorite quotes fromthe mother, who I still can't
stand, which is you do know,nuns are Catholic Duh.
Andrew (30:04):
Yes.
Catherine (30:05):
Yeah, so I mean it starts to carry through to the
next episode that Jay and Aaronhave this like good relationship
that we've literally just neverseen before.
I I.
Andrew (30:18):
The early episodes lead you to believe that she has no
relationship with her, correct?
Catherine (30:23):
so it's weird now, all of a sudden, buddy and now,
all of a sudden, she's showingup at the house and having
breakfast with them and askingaaron help.
And the other thing thatthey've started to do and I
think it's more in the nextepisode than this one I don't
understand why in the beginningthey did this whole thing where,
like, she and Sharon werebonding, and now they're tearing
(30:44):
the two of them apart, likethey've made it a contentious
relationship.
Andrew (30:47):
I think I have an explanation for this, so this,
am I right?
Catherine (30:54):
Is that the answer?
Andrew (30:57):
Wow, you said it, not me .
That's why I did it.
No, so here's the whole thing.
Here was one of my pieces oftrivia.
This episode was the last onefilmed, okay, so I think a lot
of this character developmentyeah may happen throughout the
season.
Yeah, even though this one wasthe last, because this one was
(31:18):
the last one filmed.
So you're seeing, you're seeingdeveloped characters yeah but
not.
Catherine (31:26):
But this one is placed fourth and not at the end
of the season, but but I stillthink they should have a better
relationship, she and the sisterSee, based on what they did
early on but you don't know whathappens in between.
Andrew (31:39):
Maybe something happens in between that causes this.
Catherine (31:42):
They just seem to want Jay to be snarky and right
I don't know.
Andrew (31:48):
There's no consistency whatsoever in the writing no
that is that that.
I think it's frustrating thatin the writing no, that is.
Catherine (31:53):
I think we have it's frustrating that we have
established.
Andrew (31:55):
Yeah, all right, so let's go back and let's talk
about our top three favoritemoments.
Okay, we've already talkedabout some of them, but Okay, so
yeah, I mean.
Catherine (32:04):
Talk to me my first one was her goth pimp, so we've
talked about that.
The goth pimp pimp, um, comingin like I'm the man in black.
I did also enjoy johnny cash umto become a to, to, to become a
freebasing addict and then aprostitute.
All it takes is one bad day.
I was like, okay, that's funny,um.
(32:25):
And then uh, the when the dickpriest tells her it's holy water
, not magic.
Andrew (32:31):
Water, not magic water, not magic water.
Yeah, nice.
Catherine (32:34):
And then the Presbyterians versus Catholics.
That whole scene was justhilarious to me, and it's like
Amazing.
Inanity.
Andrew (32:41):
Yes, I love those, so some of mine were.
I just loved, I loved theopening of all the muses
taunting her, I did too, with 99bottles of beer.
Catherine (32:52):
But here's the thing.
I thought it was funny.
Here's the thing.
Andrew (32:54):
Notice when they start, they're already at like 89
bottles of beer in a row.
Catherine (32:59):
She's been ignoring them for 10.
Andrew (33:00):
She's been ignoring them for near 10 bottles of beer.
I'm like, oh my God, how areyou not going crazy yet?
Catherine (33:07):
And I do have in my notes the question why have the
in my notes?
The question, why is shekeeping all of them?
Right, she could have returnedto the bookend, to the
psychiatrist um, she's got thechameleon, she's got the wax
lion, and she takes the wax lionwith her all over the place I,
I think it's fear that somethingmight happen.
Andrew (33:23):
Yeah, if, if she doesn't like, keep them.
Yeah, um, that that's my fear.
Yeah, um, so, so, yeah, I findthat interesting.
I loved when Eric is talkingabout, when he's recollecting
the Katrina, the homeless womanwhatever they don't know what
(33:46):
she is yet because she hadordered food in the restaurant
and he goes.
I remember her.
She ordered a side of cheese.
She didn't even eat it, juststared at it.
Catherine (34:01):
And then, when they finally meet her, she's like
waxing rhapsodic about cheese.
Andrew (34:07):
Well, that was her religious moment when she like,
the world is bigger than justher like yes even even in the
smallest, most mundane things,such as cheese.
There, there's a lot of beautyin it, which is which is an
interesting, interesting nuggetin this, in this episode.
Um, but yes and again, my lastone is just just the comment in
(34:31):
the whole Presbyterian versusCatholic conversation, like I
said, presbyterian prayers goright to the source, or
Presbyterian prayers go straightto the source, right to JC,
right to JC, right to JC.
My dad, joseph Charles, indeed.
So those are some of my mymoments, like I said.
(34:56):
So let's talk about what workedand what didn't work.
Catherine (35:00):
I think we've done a lot of that already.
Andrew (35:02):
I know, is there anything else that we haven't
touched upon?
Like I said, for me what workedwas the, the confessional
bathroom.
That I thought was really asolid piece of writing.
Solid piece of writing.
The cinematography, like thecamera angle, I thought was
really good.
(35:22):
It set it all up really nicelyand that was a good moment for
Father Schofield.
I mean, that was him actuallybeing a good priest.
Catherine (35:38):
Doing what he's supposed to do.
Andrew (35:40):
Doing what he's supposed to do.
So everything I think fellright into place for that scene.
So for me that's probably aboutthe only thing that worked in
the whole thing.
Catherine (35:53):
One of the things I was thinking about as I was
driving here is the fact thatthis episode and then the next
episode, they're not in the giftshop at all.
No, that bothers me.
There's something groundingabout the foundation of the gift
shop.
Andrew (36:11):
There's a lot of things, so there's a couple things.
Mouth breather is not there,right.
Tracy toms is not there in therestaurant yeah so it's, it's
like they they like dropped someof these secondary characters
to to focus more on on thedevelopment of the family.
So it's like they've zeroed inon Eric and Jay's relationship
(36:32):
and Jay's relationship with herfamily.
Catherine (36:33):
Yeah.
Andrew (36:34):
And have kind of cut off some more of the humor of the
store and the Tracy Tomscharacter which I again being
the only minority on the show,they got rid of her pretty
quickly.
Catherine (36:49):
Well, and I just I don't know.
You know like the whole thingis called Wonder Falls.
It's named after the gift shopshe works in, and now we're
completely out of her prettyquickly.
Well, and I just I don't know.
You know like the whole thingis called Wonderfalls.
It's named after the gift shopshe works in, and now we're
completely out of the gift shop.
Andrew (36:57):
Yes, exactly, you know.
No, I completely agree.
Catherine (37:03):
The other thing I was going to mention and I'm not
remembering his name now theexecutive producer, the guy from
Buffy.
Oh, I know who you're talkingabout because I also got his
song from once more with feelingwrong.
Andrew (37:20):
he wasn't in he wasn't the one here thank you.
Catherine (37:23):
He was the one who was one of the anchors in dr
horrible, oh so I was mixing upmy musicals.
Got it, my joss Whedon musicals.
Andrew (37:33):
Excellent Got it.
Catherine (37:35):
But what I was thinking about with him?
He has obviously helmed sometruly quality TV, right, yes,
and then this Right.
Could we do nothing here?
You know, it's interesting.
Andrew (37:51):
You know, someone has a hit and then they struggle to
find find their footing afterthat, um, so.
So there's some of that, Iguess, um, someone.
Here's some of my other,because I had some other notes
here, um, which I thought werereally just other little funny
things.
So, obviously, eric, it'srevealed that Eric lives in the
(38:13):
bar.
So, he's, he's, he's gettingthere, he's living there because
he got kicked out of the hotelbecause he told him he wouldn't
sue.
So when they found out he wasn'tgoing to sue, they kicked him
out of the hotel.
Catherine (38:25):
Yep.
Andrew (38:26):
Um, what I also loved just here's this I don't know if
you'd call this a piece oftrivia, but if you remember,
when the barrel falls over, itstarts rolling toward them,
which I thought was a nicelittle Indiana Jones moment.
Catherine (38:41):
Yeah, that was cute.
Andrew (38:42):
I'm like, okay, that was a nice little call out to
running away from the rollingboulder.
Catherine (38:48):
I might be getting Tim and Nia wrong again too.
By the way, again, I'm veryconfused.
Okay, yeah, just cut that partout about the Dr Horrible.
I don't think that was him.
Andrew (38:59):
No.
Catherine (38:59):
No, I think I'm wrong .
Who was it?
I don't know.
That's why I'm getting confused.
Okay, so let's look this up,all right.
Andrew (39:08):
All right Dr Horrible.
All right After Horrible SingAlong.
Cast Because I know MartyNoxon's in it, david.
Catherine (39:26):
Fury was the newsman David Fury, thank you Was the
newsman, that's who I'm thinking.
Andrew (39:29):
Okay, so who's Tim Minear?
Catherine (39:34):
I don't think he was in it.
Andrew (39:36):
Was he in anything.
Catherine (39:37):
Well, I mean, he was the executive producer of Angel
Right, but I don't think he wasin anything.
Andrew (39:42):
He wasn't even in.
Once More with Feeling, I don'tthink so.
Catherine (39:50):
No, because he came in for Angel Angel.
Yeah, he was all I think it wasalso david fury as well it was.
So I've mixed up tim muneer anddavid fury excellent now, now
(40:10):
we got that now we're clarifiedexcellent.
Andrew (40:12):
yes, thank you.
Like butter.
Um, Okay, so, yeah.
So again other moments that Iloved.
I loved the comment I can'tremember who said it If Johnny
Cash had been born Irish, hismusic would have been more
lilting.
Catherine (40:31):
Yeah, it was the guy at the train station who told
them about the.
Andrew (40:38):
Oh, it was the janitor.
Catherine (40:39):
Yeah, the guy in black.
Andrew (40:41):
Yeah, yeah, she's a prostitute and he's her goth
pimp.
That I thought was just the manin black.
And then I thought this wasinteresting, so creative,
creative non-permanence theywere they were talking about.
(41:01):
They were talking about thiskind of when they were.
They broke in or they they.
They rented the hotel motelroom next to father Schofield
and we're listening on the wall,so they're like they're up
close next to each other, yeah,and they're talking about this
whole thing about having arelationship with non-permanence
(41:22):
.
And then she's like one of themis like hot plates and
kitchenettes.
Because, they're talking aboutthe motel room.
This is a place fornon-permanence.
It's not where someone lives,which I thought was just
interesting because they weretalking about them.
They're alluding to their, like, having a relationship that was
(41:43):
non-permanent.
Um, because they're they'reclearly attracted to each other.
They almost kiss, yeah in thein the motel room, um, and then
they don't.
Catherine (41:56):
Well, because they hear Sister Katrina and Father
Schofield fighting, yeah.
Andrew (42:04):
And then there was also I don't know if you picked up on
this there was this referenceabout Agnes of God.
Yes, when they said is FatherSchofield going to Agnes of God?
Her Right.
So I had to look this upbecause I'm like, okay, what is
this a reference to?
So Agnes of God is a 1979 playby American playwright John
(42:27):
Pielmeier.
Tells the story of a novice nunwho gives birth but does not
believe she has.
After the child is found dead,the psychiatrist and the mother
superior of the convent clashduring the resulting
investigation.
The title is a pun on the Latinphrase Agnes Dei, lamb of God.
So that's the whole kind of.
(42:48):
So it's a.
The reference to Agnes of Godis when an innocent or naive
person involved in a situationthat's much darker or more
complex than it seems.
So that's kind of what they'retalking about when she says is
he Agnes of God-ing her RightAgain, like I said earlier,
(43:08):
she's an innocent, naive, kindof nun and they're thinking
maybe he's doing something moredevious or sinister.
So that was the Agnes of Godreference and, interestingly
enough, oh yeah, so they made itjust as an aside, they made it
(43:29):
into a film in 1985, starringJane Fonda, anne Bancroft and
Meg Tilly.
Yeah, that's quite a cast,quite a cast, quite a cast.
I think Meg Tilly was the nunAgnes, I think Jane Fonda was
the psychiatrist and AnneBancroft played Mother Superior.
The play is just those threecharacters and I think they're
(43:53):
on stage the whole time, or atleast Mother Superior is.
I did, obviously, obviously, adeep dive.
I went down this rabbit hole ofwhat is Agnes of God.
I had to find out because Ithought it was an interesting
reference in there that noteverybody would get.
And speaking of references, andthis is the last thing I'll say
about this episode, nope,that's the next episode, never
(44:17):
mind, alright then cut that I'llsay about this episode Nope.
Catherine (44:18):
That's the next episode.
Andrew (44:19):
Okay, never mind All right then, cut that, so, anyway
.
So that's, that's all about allI have to say.
Do you have anything to to addon this particular episode?
Catherine (44:30):
No, I think I'm good.
Andrew (44:31):
Do we give this?
Do we give this a thumbs up ora thumbs down, or a sideways
thumb?
What's?
Catherine (44:36):
the, the.
Where are we?
Sideways, sideways, thumb yeahit wasn't.
Andrew (44:41):
It wasn't as troublesome as as one of the previous
episodes we talked about, yeah,um, nor was it one of the better
agreed episodes.
So, yeah, I would say asideways.
Catherine (44:52):
Yeah, some nice character development, um, and
some funny lines.
I mean, it does.
It does occasionally do thingswell yeah yeah, I'd say this is
a sideways.
Andrew (45:03):
It's a it's hit or miss, it's.
Catherine (45:05):
It's very inconsistent agreed so that
that's where we stand on thewound up penguin, episode four
can we talk quickly about thefact that ben that Benedict
Cumberbatch can't say penguin?
Andrew (45:18):
Penwin.
He says Penwin right, he saysit like five different ways If
you listen to that clip.
Catherine (45:23):
It's Pingwing, it's Pinwin.
Andrew (45:27):
It's Penwin Penwin.
That's the one I remember,penwin Penwin.
Yeah, I'm like what?
Exactly, exactly.
Catherine (45:33):
So Benedict Cumberbatch can't say penguin.
Andrew (45:37):
That's how we're ending this episode.
Thank you for joining us todaythank you everyone for for
joining us for another fantasticepisode of seeking season two.
Where we talk about this seasonis wonder falls, and this was
episode four.
Wound up penguin.
Next up episode five is crimedog.
So stay tuned for Crime Dogcoming up in a couple weeks and
(46:00):
we'll see you then.
Catherine (46:01):
I'll see Andrew in about three seconds because
we're recording it now.
Andrew (46:05):
That's right, we're recording it now, but you have
to wait two weeks.
Catherine (46:08):
Ha ha, all three of you, because we killed one with
the Free Basic.
Andrew (46:14):
Sorry to you and your family, but thank you to the
other three still listening.
We love you.
Catherine (46:21):
You're our best friends.
Bye, bye.
welcome back everyone again to seeking season two.
I am your host, andrew, alongwith my co-host, katherine.
There she is, here.
I am hello, right across thetable from me.
Catherine (00:25):
I already talked about the rain.
Andrew (00:30):
Again, we're recording episodes back to back.
So this is one of two episodeswe're recording today.
So shit's about to go down.
Yes, it'll get bad.
It's going to go downhill veryfast, I'm afraid.
So today, so again, this seasonof Seeking Season 2, which is
Season 1 of Seeking Season 2,hopefully we don't get canceled.
(00:53):
So the whole premise of SeekingSeason 2, let me see how many
times I can say Seeking Season 2.
I don't think we can getcanceled.
Catherine (01:02):
Like we'd have to make the decision to cancel
ourselves.
Andrew (01:05):
Well, someone could cancel us, like if we did
something awful Like what Idon't know.
Catherine (01:13):
Like episode five, I was going to say like be a
writer on Wonderfalls.
Andrew (01:17):
Oh my god.
So anyway, if you haven'tfigured it out already, Seeking
Season 2 covers seasons of TVshows that got canceled after.
That doesn't make sense.
Seeking.
Catherine (01:38):
Season 2 covers shows that only got one season Bingo.
Therefore Seeking is secondseason yes and we will.
Andrew (01:47):
We will judge judge them worthy of a second season or
not yeah, um, after these twoI'm uh, I'm leaning in a in a
specific direction wonderfalls.
I can well, it's can see, we,we.
So here's the thing, so as aviewer.
(02:07):
So here's what happened withwith Wonderfalls.
Wonderfalls only aired fourepisodes and then it was
canceled, apparently, except inCanada.
Apparently, apparently, someCanadian broadcast company, I
think, bought the rights to itand aired all of them, aired all
the episodes, but here in theus, we, only, we only saw the
four.
However, I guess studio execswere probably privy to all the
(02:31):
episodes and maybe knew what wascoming, and and that's why they
canceled it after after four,because when we're going to
cover in this episode episodefour of of falls, which is wound
up penguin, and then nextepisode is episode five, so
wound up penguin was the lastone to air on television.
Episode five is crime dog.
(02:53):
That will be next episode, andit's starting to become evident
why this got canceled, why theywere canceled.
Well, here's the thing, thoughwe're we're looking again yeah,
we're looking at it in in, inthe lens of 2025.
(03:14):
So I don't know.
I don't know if that's coloringour judgment at all or or not,
on why this was canceled, but Ithink, I think I think when we
dive into these, we're going totalk about the writing and how,
how erratic the writing is andhow, um, I would say I don't say
the writing is.
I don't want to say I don't wantto be so judgy and say it was
poor writing, but it was veryinconsistent, yeah, and I think
(03:38):
at the least, like we'reobviously seeing a lot of things
that we consider objectionablethrough a 2025 lens right a lot
of that I still think I wouldhave found objectionable then,
um, maybe less so, but stillobjectionable, but I do think at
this point it's, and it's notlike the dialogue necessarily.
Catherine (03:56):
The dialogue is pithy , it's witty, it's.
The interpersonal relationshipsare just so erratic.
And I mean, I don't know if youwant to jump into the episode,
but the first thing I thoughtbefore this episode started was
I thought Lee Pace was a maincharacter.
(04:18):
Why have we barely seen himthis season?
Andrew (04:20):
Right, and then he's like majorly in this episode and
the next one which is verystrange because and we'll, we'll
get to it talk a little bit, alittle, we'll get to it.
When we talk about the triviaof this episode.
Okay, um, but some of thereasons why maybe the pacing
(04:42):
between episode to episode isoff and things like that, but
I'll, I'll bring that up later.
Okay, um, but yeah, let's divein.
Catherine (04:49):
So this is episode four, which I think really was
episode aired is episode threewhich makes even less sense,
yeah, when you see the freakingchameleon in her trailer singing
in episode three right, but heisn't actually introduced until
episode four.
Right the way they aired it.
Andrew (05:08):
Weird so that's.
That's the whole thing, so I'llget to it later, but we'll talk
about I I hate to spoil my ownpodcast, but we'll.
We'll talk about the wound up,wound up penguin later.
Okay, anyway, this episodedirected again by Todd Holland
who did a bunch of the episodes.
Yep, liz Garcia was the writer.
Okay, I thought I had somedetails in here about Liz Garcia
(05:33):
, but I don't as a writer hercredits include Dawson's Creek,
wonder Falls and Cold Case.
She was a co-producer on coldcase.
Catherine (05:45):
Yeah, for for several seasons in 2010, she co-created
the tnt series memphis beatstarring jason lee.
Never heard of it, uh yeah, butjason lee is a favorite of
kevin smith's love jason.
Andrew (05:56):
Heard of him.
Catherine (05:58):
We've met jason lee my name is earl we held the door
for jason lee and hecomplimented your sweater yeah,
which was, I think.
Andrew (06:05):
I think they just said it was the 20th anniversary of
my name.
Is Earl oh really.
Cause I followed Jason Lee onInstagram and he had he had like
there is, there was a gettogether of the cast of my name
is Earl and I think I think theysaid it's been um, I think it's
been 20.
Catherine (06:20):
If I recall, correctly.
Well, it looks like the lastthing that happened with Liz
Garcia is that she signed anoverall deal with Entertainment
One in 2021 and disappeared.
Andrew (06:33):
Interesting, I don't know.
So there's that.
Catherine (06:41):
So nice knowing you, liz Garcia Nice knowing you, liz
Garcia, what Nice knowing you.
Andrew (06:49):
Nice knowing you.
Another TV show that gotcanceled, all because of you.
Well, she did write technicallythe fourth episode.
I mean I guess it was the airedthird, but I blame Liz, I blame
Liz Garcia, for that's justmean.
Catherine (07:05):
Okay, sorry liz, I apologize.
She's definitely listening tothis podcast ever listen to this
episode.
Andrew (07:11):
I'm I'm so sorry, that's why we get canceled.
See, this is this is this iswhy we get canceled.
So anyway, um also starringguest.
Starring carrie Preston.
Catherine (07:23):
Yay.
Andrew (07:24):
Love Carrie Preston.
Catherine (07:26):
Tell you you've got to watch Ellsbeth.
Andrew (07:28):
It's a great show, I know you keep telling me that I
should Love it, I should watchEllsbeth, and so I heart Carrie
Preston, not only because she'sa tremendous actress, but also
because of who she's married toMichael Emerson, michael Emerson
, ben Linus yes, the man and Iloved them both in Person of
Interest when they played loveinterests which was so cute.
Catherine (07:50):
He's on Elsbeth.
Andrew (07:52):
Is he on?
Catherine (07:53):
Elsbeth, yeah, the second season, and I cannot
spoil it for you, don't?
I love when they act againsteach other.
It's great.
Andrew (08:01):
Just a quick question, without spoiling it does he play
a bad guy?
Yes he does Sweet.
He was on that show Evil yes aswell, which I I started
watching.
We started watching thattogether, I think.
Catherine (08:13):
I think so, yeah, and then just never, never.
Andrew (08:16):
I might have to get back to that.
Catherine (08:28):
Um, of them both.
So so anyway, carrie prestonstars as katrina.
Yeah, katrina, the nun sisterkatrina, like that's ever been a
thing, sister katrina.
There was a lot of and and wecan talk about this later, but
one of my clearly not catholics.
Andrew (08:34):
Was there a clue in the catholic right?
Catherine (08:36):
misunderstanding of catholicism in general.
I was like what's happening?
Andrew (08:41):
well, well, I loved when the father, which is Darren,
right, yes, darren, and he'sconvincing her why
Presbyterianism is better thanCatholicism.
Catherine (08:58):
I literally in my notes, I have written down LOL,
presbyterians versus Catholics.
Andrew (09:05):
It's amazing, it's just like a whole, like I have the
down.
Lol, presbyterians versusCatholics.
It's amazing, it's just like awhole, like I have the law.
So so this is one of my topthree moments and I'll just say
it right now when he goesPresbyterians cause cause he
talks about when, when, whenpraying, you have to like go
through the priest.
You know you can't just talklike straight to God.
And he goes Presbyterianprayers go straight to the
source, right to JC.
Catherine (09:25):
And I was like why do they think that the mother said
they have to go through a saint?
I'm like no, that's not.
Oh, my God.
Andrew (09:34):
Well, no, Well, well, here's the thing.
Source many years of Catholicschool.
But here's the thing.
That's probably, that'sprobably the extent of what
Presbyterians know aboutCatholicism, Fair, so so maybe,
maybe the writing is is on pointfor for what a Presbyterian
knows about Catholicism.
Good job, Liz Garcia.
Excellent job, Well played soanyway so let's so let's talk
(09:59):
about the kind of synopsis ofthe episode.
Yep, so Jay and bartender EricYep, so Jay and bartender Eric
Yep From New Jersey, yes, whichwhich I mean they've mentioned
before, but I mean it.
It starts to come to yeah,comes to fruition.
Catherine (10:20):
I just sorry, Is Laura texting you?
I just, I just get the text.
Andrew (10:24):
I get the text from the couch.
As a former Presbyterian, Iknew very little about
Catholicism.
Catherine (10:29):
Thank you for clarifying that.
Thank you for confirming that,laura.
Andrew (10:32):
Thank you, now we know.
See, now we've got the source.
So, anyway, so kind of thesynopsis of this episode.
Jay and Eric are trying to findthe woman, so they can do.
They hear a noise Like what wasit?
What prompted them to look inthe barrel?
Catherine (10:51):
Okay, so he was talking about how there were
rats in the restaurant, becauseEric is living in the restaurant
Right and they hear a noise andthen they think it's a rat.
So they go look in the barrel.
And it was a very good line.
I didn't write it down, but Idid think it was funny when she
said, well, that's a really bigrat because there's a person
living in the barrel.
Andrew (11:11):
yes, so they discover someone living in the barrel, um
, who, who busts out becausethey the the barrel rolls gets
knocked over.
Yeah, the person hiding thebarrel runs out.
And this is, I think, when,when does, when does jay get the
message from the wound uppenguin?
(11:34):
Cause, that's, that's one ofthe things, cause I think
they're going through her.
Catherine (11:38):
It's when they're going through her stuff.
Andrew (11:39):
They're going through her stuff, yeah, and then the
the penguin says bring her backbring her back, yeah, and then
that, that, that, that thatgrows to bring her back to him
later.
But bring her back is what thepenguin says.
And then there's a wholeconversation that Eric and Jay
(11:59):
have.
So they go out trying to findthis woman who they think is a
runaway.
They don't know her backstory,find out that she's a nun on the
run.
They think she's a nun on therun.
Catherine (12:11):
They think she's a junkie first.
Oh, that's right, because I'mtrying to remember what Jay said
, and the way she pronounced itmade me laugh.
Well, she asked if she wasfreebasing in the barrel, but it
was like the way she pronouncedfreebasing was like freebasing,
it was wrong, and I was likethis is a person who's never
(12:32):
heard drug language before.
Andrew (12:34):
Right Well, has never free based before, apparently.
Catherine (12:38):
Well, I obviously have been freebasing all the
time, and that's why I know howto pronounce it.
Exactly I don't even know whatfreebasing is, ask Richard Pryor
.
Okay, he's dead.
Andrew (12:50):
Because he was freebasing.
That's what almost killed him,by the way, he's dead Because he
was freebasing.
Oh God, that's what almostkilled him, by the way.
Really, look it up, so anyway.
Catherine (12:58):
I won't do that right now.
I'll look it up later.
Andrew (12:59):
I as well, don't know what freebasing is.
It has something to do with, Ithink cocaine.
Sure, I think it's what it is.
I think it's cocaine.
Catherine (13:15):
Now I have to look up , let's look up freebasing.
I don't know, hey Siri, how doI freebase?
You know, I use my personalphone for work, now too.
Andrew (13:21):
This reminds me of office space when they were
looking up how to launder money.
Money laundering how do Ifreebase?
Catherine (13:29):
Freebasing refers to a method of drug use primarily
associated with cocaine thatinvolves converting a drug from
its hydrochloride salt form intoits pure base form.
Ooh, that's the base infreebasing.
This process makes the drugsmokable and more potent.
And then it says freebasingdrugs is extremely dangerous.
(13:52):
Increased potency and addictionrisk, health risks, including
lung damage, heart problems,respiratory failure and
increased risk of overdose andchemical hazards.
They're highly flammable.
And then free-bracing and crackcocaine.
While initially distinctprocesses free-bracing cocaine
and and crack cocaine Whileinitially distinct processes
(14:14):
freebasing cocaine and smokingcrack cocaine have become
largely interchangeable terms.
Crack cocaine is a form offreebase cocaine produced using
baking soda.
It makes a crackling sound whenheated, hence the name.
Don't do drugs, kids.
Well, don't do coke.
Andrew (14:31):
Don't do coke.
Catherine (14:35):
Everything else is fine.
I I mean, you can smoke pot.
I'll endorse smoking pot, Ijust don't there you go, I don't
cook don't.
Don't take the what I justfound on on wikipedia and turn
it into an excuse to freebase.
No, please do not do that.
There's only like fourlisteners of this podcast to
begin with.
I'd prefer not to kill one ofthem with.
Andrew (14:53):
No, please don't yeah, please don't do that, okay, all
right, so I have no idea wherewe left, where we were prior to
do you?
Catherine (15:03):
we were talking about how they found her in the
barrel and they were talkingabout the rats and then the
penguin um started talking whenthey were going through her
stuff.
Andrew (15:11):
Bring her back.
Yes, so that's where we were.
So then Jay goes bring her backRight, and then Eric goes you
want to bring her back?
Catherine (15:21):
Yeah.
Andrew (15:22):
And then it was like a whole thing, and then he was
like he had this whole likemoment of like oh, she's such a
saint, right, you're a goodperson.
Catherine (15:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's such a saint that, Right,
you're a good person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then it really brings outher being a bad person.
Brings out the good person.
That's inherently an Eric Right.
Andrew (15:40):
So the whole main plot is them.
What she thinks is bringingSister Katrina back to the
priest or back to Back to God.
Catherine (15:51):
Back to God.
Get her to go back to theconvent that she.
Back to God.
The capital H, the convent thatshe ran away with.
Andrew (15:55):
Exactly so so that's her whole thing, right?
So then she tries to.
What was the?
I'm trying to think of what shewas.
What was she trying to do toget sister Katrina to find
religion again?
I can't remember what it was.
Catherine (16:11):
Yeah, why am I suddenly blanking on that?
Oh, wasn't it eventually to um,basically exercise the things
that have been talking to jay?
Andrew (16:21):
oh, that's right.
Yeah, because she she confessed.
She confessed to um katrinathat she was hearing the voices
telling her to do things.
Catherine (16:32):
And she kind of I think Jay told her to kind of
like make it proof thatsomething exists, right, but of
course Katrina goes immediatelyto demons.
It's the devil, it's gotta be.
Andrew (16:46):
Satan, it's gotta be the devil, absolutely, could it?
Catherine (16:50):
be Satan.
Yes, so it be Satan.
Andrew (16:53):
Yes, so then Katrina goes into the whole exorcism
thing and yada, yada, yada andwe go down that route.
Now the so let's talk aboutthat, so let's go into, let's go
into this whole plot.
Let's really, really.
I mean we've kind of broken itdown already.
(17:13):
But yeah, again, it's thepenguin, the wind up penguin,
that's telling her to to bringher back.
So Jay immediately assumes it'sthe nun bringing her back to G
dash D.
Catherine (17:31):
Yeah, which was funny .
Andrew (17:34):
Okay, g-d, sure, sure, so, anyway.
So Jay is trying to bring herback, finding some way to bring
her back to God, to have herhave this kind of religious
moment.
I mean, they think that she's a, they think she's a homeless
person at first, but then andthen they decide she's a
(17:57):
prostitute.
Catherine (17:58):
She's a prostitute because of the priest who's
chasing her the goth, the gothpimp, her goth pimp.
I have that written down.
Yes, same.
And then my next question, andI have a very similar question
about episode five.
Yes, why is the priest such adick?
I don't know I did grow upCatholic and I have never met a
priest who would talk to anyonethe way this guy's like this is
(18:22):
where they clearly have nevermet Catholic people.
I can, so here, here's the thing, so, so yeah, so, or they at
least haven't met clergy,because a priest would not talk
to someone like that.
Andrew (18:37):
No, there's a lot of stereotyping and for comedy
purposes I can see why you mightstereotype someone, but he
doesn't really fit thestereotype of a caring priest.
No, which is who I would thinkyou would be.
But here's the thing I've metmean priests but I haven't met
is who I would think you wouldbe, and there I.
Catherine (18:52):
But here's the thing I've met mean priests, but I
haven't met a priest I woulddescribe as a dick.
Andrew (18:57):
But remember, remember, he said at one point he had a
lot of transgressions in hispast.
Sure, because he wasn't alwayson the priestly path, sure.
So maybe he's just a little bitharder than than a lot of
people that have grown up goingto college and going right into
the seminary and he was astraight dick.
Catherine (19:17):
It was a hundred percent asshole behavior.
Andrew (19:21):
I agree.
I'm just saying, maybe thatmaybe that's why, maybe that's
why they wrote him that way.
Catherine (19:26):
I think it's more to do with.
I've never met a priest or anun, so let's go with this.
You know there was therequisite.
Nuns are scary joke which,having grown up Catholic yes
they are.
Oh, there we have it.
I mean there are one or twothat I've liked in my time, but
for the most part nuns areterrifying.
Like, honestly, sister Katrinawas way nicer than she should
(19:49):
have been.
Andrew (19:51):
Sister Katrina was a very naive, I think, and I
really want to get into thisbecause this is having grown up
in the church and beenindoctrinated in all that
religious fanfare yes, thatreligious fanfare.
It's very interesting thatKatrina said God had never
(20:16):
spoken to her and she said atsome point God doesn't speak to
people.
And I think that's when Jayopened up about the inanimate
objects speaking to her, becauseshe said maybe it's God, maybe
it's something else, butsomething speaks to me yeah and
I I found it fascinating.
(20:37):
I mean, I don't think whetherwhether you believe in god, a
higher power, or or just or justare spiritual or or or
non-religious entirely, I mean Ithink I think things definitely
speak to people.
So I don't, I find it hard tobelieve that nothing has spoken
(21:00):
to Katrina in her life.
Like I feel like I feel like alot of things have spoken to me,
just just being out in nature,yeah.
Like it's just sometimes a.
A I don't want to say religiousexperience, but like a, a
spiritual experience and I meanmine is is much closer to like
an actual religious experience.
Catherine (21:21):
But I remember while I was in college and I did go to
a jesuit college I remember,not all the time but being in
the chapel and just feeling likethe wonder of that community of
everybody being together for acommon thing.
It was very like there wasdefinitely something that spoke
(21:42):
to me in that.
But no, I mean, do I think Godis like whispering in people's
ears?
No, he's not texting.
Andrew (21:50):
Right.
So I mean, like, mean, like,how do you like?
I guess maybe she just doesn'tfeel like she's, she has a
calling, but I mean again.
I mean I've been to liveconcerts.
Um, I would, I would dare saythat you two at the sphere was
it was a was a near religiousexperience for me um Sedona for
(22:12):
me.
Sedona, you know, going to anart museum and just standing in
front of an amazing painting andtrying to figure out how
somebody's mind saw that and wasable to translate that onto a
canvas, like there's so manydifferent things that speak to
people, many different thingsthat that, that get that that
(22:36):
speak to people.
Um, I just found it kind of sad, a sad commentary that like
nothing.
I mean, maybe she was hopingfor something more concrete and
was missing a lot of the othersigns out there that were
actually speaking to her.
Catherine (22:48):
But it's like I think , even when she's talking about
how much she loves the convent,that in itself is like Right.
That kind of that community,exactly it's the reason I think
you become a nun.
Andrew (23:05):
Right, or you get the habit and it lets you fly.
I mean because that's.
Catherine (23:11):
I think that's only if you're Sally Field, right,
yeah, man.
Andrew (23:15):
I know I would totally become a nun if I could fly that
would be Fairly certain you donot meet the criteria.
Nope, no, I do not, oh boy, soanyway.
No, I do not, oh boy, so soanyway.
So the the deep, the deep divethen at the end of this whole
(23:38):
narrative is it really wasn'tbring her to him, katrina, to,
um, to god it, it was, it was we, we find out in the end again,
father Schofield, who had this,this, this past, comes to find
(23:59):
out that he had a child.
Yep, and because it was, it wasthe whole thing about when, um,
um, was it the wind-up?
No, it was the lion.
The lion told her to break thetaillight.
Catherine (24:12):
Yep.
Andrew (24:14):
And her car rolled into the car, broke the taillight.
It was Father Schofield's car.
Then he got pulled over by acop for having a taillight out,
found out that he was beingthere was like a warrant for
unpaid child support or whatever.
Catherine (24:30):
He was a deadbeat dad .
Yeah, it was the woman tryingto find him because she didn't
know where to yeah, so she was.
Andrew (24:37):
She was just looking in in all the wrong places for
father scofield, which I findodd.
Like how do you, how do you notfind somebody?
It's not like he was unfindable, it wasn't like he was under
operating under an assumed nameyeah, and I mean nuns may take a
different name.
Catherine (24:53):
They don't always, but they can um, but priests
don't they would keep the sameright name.
Andrew (24:59):
So I thought that was yeah, well, but it's also the
early 2000s.
Catherine (25:03):
Okay, fair, so it's not like you had, you know,
white page.
Well, I guess you did havewhitepagescom, but it probably
wasn't as good as it is nowright.
He might have just been harderto find, true.
Yeah, Well, I mean, cause Iguess we don't know where they
where they came from Right Causethey were getting back on a
train, but we don't know whereto Right.
I did think that was interesting, that you're at the Niagara
(25:26):
Falls train station and they'relike New Jersey Hoboken.
I'm like New Jersey Hoboken,I'm like absolutely not no, no,
no, start with Patterson.
Yeah, absolutely not.
Okay, so there we have evenjust research train lines Like
my God like to just do a littlebasic research, research goes
right from Patterson to Hoboken.
Like obviously, clearly, well,and from Niagara Falls to
(25:51):
anywhere in this area, the onlyplace you would be able to go
and you'd probably have tochange trains is New York city.
Andrew (25:56):
You go to New York city.
Well cause, then it would dropin Newark Penn station.
Yes, so it'd be New York nothey didn't say of all the
places, no it's not Newark,cause that's, that's, I think
that's Amtrak.
Well, has a bunch of stops, butyeah, I mean, those are the,
those are the main stops.
Is new york city um newark?
Catherine (26:14):
and philly yep, so just bad writing again, just
sloppy, sloppy yeah not even bad, right?
Andrew (26:22):
I mean, they didn't even do the research, yeah, just
none, it's just bad.
Catherine (26:25):
They were just like what are cities in new jersey
right exactly?
Andrew (26:28):
let's, let's look at the globe, see what cities we can
find and put them in the script.
Oh my god, so that's the mainplot to this I found.
Do you have any other notes on?
not on the main one now so thesubplot for me is really this
kind of I don't want to say itwas feelings of guilt, but Eric
(26:53):
the bartender and hisinteractions with um father
Schofield, which I thought wasreally interesting because he
has this um, why I think he'sstarting to have true feelings
for Jay, yeah, so I think that's, I think that's what's kind of,
what kind of started this.
And then he was like, well,what about my marriage?
(27:17):
And I don't think it was afeeling of guilt, but I think it
was.
You know that's over, but haveI really closed that chapter in
my life?
And then he talks aboutforgiveness and if I forgive her
, does that mean I'm going backto her?
Yeah, and father scofield makesthat, makes the good point just
because you forgive somebodydoesn't mean you, you continue
(27:40):
on with that right that personum, he wants someone to tell him
the answer and that's justsimply not going to happen.
No, but I I thought it was, Ithought I honestly thought it
was a really great scene.
Yeah, the two of them in thebathroom stalls, yeah, which is
the vision of kind of theconfessional, the makeshift
confessional.
Catherine (28:01):
So I thought the visual aspect of it was I did
like that yeah.
Andrew (28:04):
That I thought was really good, one of the
highlights I think of.
I think the subplot was reallyfor me a highlight of this
episode.
Yeah, I think the subplot wasreally for me a highlight of
this episode.
Yeah, really digging deep intorelationships and understanding.
You know, every new beginningcomes from some other
(28:26):
beginning's end, and well, youknow why.
So remember, that's how thiswhole episode started, right,
because they were singing 99Bottles of Beer on a Wall, yeah.
And then she goes to the barand he says you don't have to go
home, but you can't stay here.
Oh, semi-sonic closing time.
Thank you See, I tied that allup in a nice little bow, very
(28:47):
nice, nice little bow.
Catherine (28:49):
Can we talk about one more thing, let's please?
Uh, lee pace, because lee pacesuddenly is a character.
I know lee pace.
Andrew (28:57):
I guess we could talk about how attractive lee paces
was it this episode or the otherepisode where his shirt was
largely unbuttoned?
Catherine (29:04):
I think it was the next one, wasn't it?
Where they go to canada?
Andrew (29:07):
yeah, like yeah, I'm like, I like Lee he's got his
like, he's like he's likehanging out with like barely a
button shirt on.
I'm like what are you doing,dude?
Catherine (29:19):
But it's like suddenly and I'm assuming that
somewhere in the trivia you'regoing to say that he was filming
something else and that's whyno, oh, really no Interesting, I
have none of that in the trivia.
So all of a sudden, jay hasthis great relationship with her
brother Right, and she'stalking about oh, he has all
these theology degrees and blah,blah, blah, and that's the
(29:41):
first thing she tries is havinghim talk to Katrina Right, but
apparently doesn't tell him thatshe's a Catholic nun, ex-nun.
Andrew (29:52):
As.
Catherine (29:52):
Katrina likes to point out and does lead me to
one of my favorite quotes fromthe mother, who I still can't
stand, which is you do know,nuns are Catholic Duh.
Andrew (30:04):
Yes.
Catherine (30:05):
Yeah, so I mean it starts to carry through to the
next episode that Jay and Aaronhave this like good relationship
that we've literally just neverseen before.
I I.
Andrew (30:18):
The early episodes lead you to believe that she has no
relationship with her, correct?
Catherine (30:23):
so it's weird now, all of a sudden, buddy and now,
all of a sudden, she's showingup at the house and having
breakfast with them and askingaaron help.
And the other thing thatthey've started to do and I
think it's more in the nextepisode than this one I don't
understand why in the beginningthey did this whole thing where,
like, she and Sharon werebonding, and now they're tearing
(30:44):
the two of them apart, likethey've made it a contentious
relationship.
Andrew (30:47):
I think I have an explanation for this, so this,
am I right?
Catherine (30:54):
Is that the answer?
Andrew (30:57):
Wow, you said it, not me .
That's why I did it.
No, so here's the whole thing.
Here was one of my pieces oftrivia.
This episode was the last onefilmed, okay, so I think a lot
of this character developmentyeah may happen throughout the
season.
Yeah, even though this one wasthe last, because this one was
(31:18):
the last one filmed.
So you're seeing, you're seeingdeveloped characters yeah but
not.
Catherine (31:26):
But this one is placed fourth and not at the end
of the season, but but I stillthink they should have a better
relationship, she and the sisterSee, based on what they did
early on but you don't know whathappens in between.
Andrew (31:39):
Maybe something happens in between that causes this.
Catherine (31:42):
They just seem to want Jay to be snarky and right
I don't know.
Andrew (31:48):
There's no consistency whatsoever in the writing no
that is that that.
I think it's frustrating thatin the writing no, that is.
Catherine (31:53):
I think we have it's frustrating that we have
established.
Andrew (31:55):
Yeah, all right, so let's go back and let's talk
about our top three favoritemoments.
Okay, we've already talkedabout some of them, but Okay, so
yeah, I mean.
Catherine (32:04):
Talk to me my first one was her goth pimp, so we've
talked about that.
The goth pimp pimp, um, comingin like I'm the man in black.
I did also enjoy johnny cash umto become a to, to, to become a
freebasing addict and then aprostitute.
All it takes is one bad day.
I was like, okay, that's funny,um.
(32:25):
And then uh, the when the dickpriest tells her it's holy water
, not magic.
Andrew (32:31):
Water, not magic water, not magic water.
Yeah, nice.
Catherine (32:34):
And then the Presbyterians versus Catholics.
That whole scene was justhilarious to me, and it's like
Amazing.
Inanity.
Andrew (32:41):
Yes, I love those, so some of mine were.
I just loved, I loved theopening of all the muses
taunting her, I did too, with 99bottles of beer.
Catherine (32:52):
But here's the thing.
I thought it was funny.
Here's the thing.
Andrew (32:54):
Notice when they start, they're already at like 89
bottles of beer in a row.
Catherine (32:59):
She's been ignoring them for 10.
Andrew (33:00):
She's been ignoring them for near 10 bottles of beer.
I'm like, oh my God, how areyou not going crazy yet?
Catherine (33:07):
And I do have in my notes the question why have the
in my notes?
The question, why is shekeeping all of them?
Right, she could have returnedto the bookend, to the
psychiatrist um, she's got thechameleon, she's got the wax
lion, and she takes the wax lionwith her all over the place I,
I think it's fear that somethingmight happen.
Andrew (33:23):
Yeah, if, if she doesn't like, keep them.
Yeah, um, that that's my fear.
Yeah, um, so, so, yeah, I findthat interesting.
I loved when Eric is talkingabout, when he's recollecting
the Katrina, the homeless womanwhatever they don't know what
(33:46):
she is yet because she hadordered food in the restaurant
and he goes.
I remember her.
She ordered a side of cheese.
She didn't even eat it, juststared at it.
Catherine (34:01):
And then, when they finally meet her, she's like
waxing rhapsodic about cheese.
Andrew (34:07):
Well, that was her religious moment when she like,
the world is bigger than justher like yes even even in the
smallest, most mundane things,such as cheese.
There, there's a lot of beautyin it, which is which is an
interesting, interesting nuggetin this, in this episode.
Um, but yes and again, my lastone is just just the comment in
(34:31):
the whole Presbyterian versusCatholic conversation, like I
said, presbyterian prayers goright to the source, or
Presbyterian prayers go straightto the source, right to JC,
right to JC, right to JC.
My dad, joseph Charles, indeed.
So those are some of my mymoments, like I said.
(34:56):
So let's talk about what workedand what didn't work.
Catherine (35:00):
I think we've done a lot of that already.
Andrew (35:02):
I know, is there anything else that we haven't
touched upon?
Like I said, for me what workedwas the, the confessional
bathroom.
That I thought was really asolid piece of writing.
Solid piece of writing.
The cinematography, like thecamera angle, I thought was
really good.
(35:22):
It set it all up really nicelyand that was a good moment for
Father Schofield.
I mean, that was him actuallybeing a good priest.
Catherine (35:38):
Doing what he's supposed to do.
Andrew (35:40):
Doing what he's supposed to do.
So everything I think fellright into place for that scene.
So for me that's probably aboutthe only thing that worked in
the whole thing.
Catherine (35:53):
One of the things I was thinking about as I was
driving here is the fact thatthis episode and then the next
episode, they're not in the giftshop at all.
No, that bothers me.
There's something groundingabout the foundation of the gift
shop.
Andrew (36:11):
There's a lot of things, so there's a couple things.
Mouth breather is not there,right.
Tracy toms is not there in therestaurant yeah so it's, it's
like they they like dropped someof these secondary characters
to to focus more on on thedevelopment of the family.
So it's like they've zeroed inon Eric and Jay's relationship
(36:32):
and Jay's relationship with herfamily.
Catherine (36:33):
Yeah.
Andrew (36:34):
And have kind of cut off some more of the humor of the
store and the Tracy Tomscharacter which I again being
the only minority on the show,they got rid of her pretty
quickly.
Catherine (36:49):
Well, and I just I don't know.
You know like the whole thingis called Wonder Falls.
It's named after the gift shopshe works in, and now we're
completely out of her prettyquickly.
Well, and I just I don't know.
You know like the whole thingis called Wonderfalls.
It's named after the gift shopshe works in, and now we're
completely out of the gift shop.
Andrew (36:57):
Yes, exactly, you know.
No, I completely agree.
Catherine (37:03):
The other thing I was going to mention and I'm not
remembering his name now theexecutive producer, the guy from
Buffy.
Oh, I know who you're talkingabout because I also got his
song from once more with feelingwrong.
Andrew (37:20):
he wasn't in he wasn't the one here thank you.
Catherine (37:23):
He was the one who was one of the anchors in dr
horrible, oh so I was mixing upmy musicals.
Got it, my joss Whedon musicals.
Andrew (37:33):
Excellent Got it.
Catherine (37:35):
But what I was thinking about with him?
He has obviously helmed sometruly quality TV, right, yes,
and then this Right.
Could we do nothing here?
You know, it's interesting.
Andrew (37:51):
You know, someone has a hit and then they struggle to
find find their footing afterthat, um, so.
So there's some of that, Iguess, um, someone.
Here's some of my other,because I had some other notes
here, um, which I thought werereally just other little funny
things.
So, obviously, eric, it'srevealed that Eric lives in the
(38:13):
bar.
So, he's, he's, he's gettingthere, he's living there because
he got kicked out of the hotelbecause he told him he wouldn't
sue.
So when they found out he wasn'tgoing to sue, they kicked him
out of the hotel.
Catherine (38:25):
Yep.
Andrew (38:26):
Um, what I also loved just here's this I don't know if
you'd call this a piece oftrivia, but if you remember,
when the barrel falls over, itstarts rolling toward them,
which I thought was a nicelittle Indiana Jones moment.
Catherine (38:41):
Yeah, that was cute.
Andrew (38:42):
I'm like, okay, that was a nice little call out to
running away from the rollingboulder.
Catherine (38:48):
I might be getting Tim and Nia wrong again too.
By the way, again, I'm veryconfused.
Okay, yeah, just cut that partout about the Dr Horrible.
I don't think that was him.
Andrew (38:59):
No.
Catherine (38:59):
No, I think I'm wrong .
Who was it?
I don't know.
That's why I'm getting confused.
Okay, so let's look this up,all right.
Andrew (39:08):
All right Dr Horrible.
All right After Horrible SingAlong.
Cast Because I know MartyNoxon's in it, david.
Catherine (39:26):
Fury was the newsman David Fury, thank you Was the
newsman, that's who I'm thinking.
Andrew (39:29):
Okay, so who's Tim Minear?
Catherine (39:34):
I don't think he was in it.
Andrew (39:36):
Was he in anything.
Catherine (39:37):
Well, I mean, he was the executive producer of Angel
Right, but I don't think he wasin anything.
Andrew (39:42):
He wasn't even in.
Once More with Feeling, I don'tthink so.
Catherine (39:50):
No, because he came in for Angel Angel.
Yeah, he was all I think it wasalso david fury as well it was.
So I've mixed up tim muneer anddavid fury excellent now, now
(40:10):
we got that now we're clarifiedexcellent.
Andrew (40:12):
yes, thank you.
Like butter.
Um, Okay, so, yeah.
So again other moments that Iloved.
I loved the comment I can'tremember who said it If Johnny
Cash had been born Irish, hismusic would have been more
lilting.
Catherine (40:31):
Yeah, it was the guy at the train station who told
them about the.
Andrew (40:38):
Oh, it was the janitor.
Catherine (40:39):
Yeah, the guy in black.
Andrew (40:41):
Yeah, yeah, she's a prostitute and he's her goth
pimp.
That I thought was just the manin black.
And then I thought this wasinteresting, so creative,
creative non-permanence theywere they were talking about.
(41:01):
They were talking about thiskind of when they were.
They broke in or they they.
They rented the hotel motelroom next to father Schofield
and we're listening on the wall,so they're like they're up
close next to each other, yeah,and they're talking about this
whole thing about having arelationship with non-permanence
(41:22):
.
And then she's like one of themis like hot plates and
kitchenettes.
Because, they're talking aboutthe motel room.
This is a place fornon-permanence.
It's not where someone lives,which I thought was just
interesting because they weretalking about them.
They're alluding to their, like, having a relationship that was
(41:43):
non-permanent.
Um, because they're they'reclearly attracted to each other.
They almost kiss, yeah in thein the motel room, um, and then
they don't.
Catherine (41:56):
Well, because they hear Sister Katrina and Father
Schofield fighting, yeah.
Andrew (42:04):
And then there was also I don't know if you picked up on
this there was this referenceabout Agnes of God.
Yes, when they said is FatherSchofield going to Agnes of God?
Her Right.
So I had to look this upbecause I'm like, okay, what is
this a reference to?
So Agnes of God is a 1979 playby American playwright John
(42:27):
Pielmeier.
Tells the story of a novice nunwho gives birth but does not
believe she has.
After the child is found dead,the psychiatrist and the mother
superior of the convent clashduring the resulting
investigation.
The title is a pun on the Latinphrase Agnes Dei, lamb of God.
So that's the whole kind of.
(42:48):
So it's a.
The reference to Agnes of Godis when an innocent or naive
person involved in a situationthat's much darker or more
complex than it seems.
So that's kind of what they'retalking about when she says is
he Agnes of God-ing her RightAgain, like I said earlier,
(43:08):
she's an innocent, naive, kindof nun and they're thinking
maybe he's doing something moredevious or sinister.
So that was the Agnes of Godreference and, interestingly
enough, oh yeah, so they made itjust as an aside, they made it
(43:29):
into a film in 1985, starringJane Fonda, anne Bancroft and
Meg Tilly.
Yeah, that's quite a cast,quite a cast, quite a cast.
I think Meg Tilly was the nunAgnes, I think Jane Fonda was
the psychiatrist and AnneBancroft played Mother Superior.
The play is just those threecharacters and I think they're
(43:53):
on stage the whole time, or atleast Mother Superior is.
I did, obviously, obviously, adeep dive.
I went down this rabbit hole ofwhat is Agnes of God.
I had to find out because Ithought it was an interesting
reference in there that noteverybody would get.
And speaking of references, andthis is the last thing I'll say
about this episode, nope,that's the next episode, never
(44:17):
mind, alright then cut that I'llsay about this episode Nope.
Catherine (44:18):
That's the next episode.
Andrew (44:19):
Okay, never mind All right then, cut that, so, anyway
.
So that's, that's all about allI have to say.
Do you have anything to to addon this particular episode?
Catherine (44:30):
No, I think I'm good.
Andrew (44:31):
Do we give this?
Do we give this a thumbs up ora thumbs down, or a sideways
thumb?
What's?
Catherine (44:36):
the, the.
Where are we?
Sideways, sideways, thumb yeahit wasn't.
Andrew (44:41):
It wasn't as troublesome as as one of the previous
episodes we talked about, yeah,um, nor was it one of the better
agreed episodes.
So, yeah, I would say asideways.
Catherine (44:52):
Yeah, some nice character development, um, and
some funny lines.
I mean, it does.
It does occasionally do thingswell yeah yeah, I'd say this is
a sideways.
Andrew (45:03):
It's a it's hit or miss, it's.
Catherine (45:05):
It's very inconsistent agreed so that
that's where we stand on thewound up penguin, episode four
can we talk quickly about thefact that ben that Benedict
Cumberbatch can't say penguin?
Andrew (45:18):
Penwin.
He says Penwin right, he saysit like five different ways If
you listen to that clip.
Catherine (45:23):
It's Pingwing, it's Pinwin.
Andrew (45:27):
It's Penwin Penwin.
That's the one I remember,penwin Penwin.
Yeah, I'm like what?
Exactly, exactly.
Catherine (45:33):
So Benedict Cumberbatch can't say penguin.
Andrew (45:37):
That's how we're ending this episode.
Thank you for joining us todaythank you everyone for for
joining us for another fantasticepisode of seeking season two.
Where we talk about this seasonis wonder falls, and this was
episode four.
Wound up penguin.
Next up episode five is crimedog.
So stay tuned for Crime Dogcoming up in a couple weeks and
(46:00):
we'll see you then.
Catherine (46:01):
I'll see Andrew in about three seconds because
we're recording it now.
Andrew (46:05):
That's right, we're recording it now, but you have
to wait two weeks.
Catherine (46:08):
Ha ha, all three of you, because we killed one with
the Free Basic.
Andrew (46:14):
Sorry to you and your family, but thank you to the
other three still listening.
We love you.
Catherine (46:21):
You're our best friends.
Bye, bye.
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