Star Wars, Slice-of-Life, & Supersize Screens

Episode Transcript
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Ryan Summers (00:03):
This week on Seize the Play, we're going to take a
spin around the studio to seewhat's inspiring the team.
We've got Star Wars, some sliceof life animation, some really
super sized screens and a deepdive on cinematography.
All that and more on today'sepisode of Seize the Play.
Hey, hey, to all my keyslingers, my pixel-peepers,

(00:30):
pencil pushers I'm so glad totalk to all the motioneers out
there, because today's somethingspecial.
We're going to take a speed runthrough the studio to try to
find out all the differentthings that are inspiring
everybody here at SPILT.
And inspiration.
We all just need a little bitmore, no matter if we're faced
with that blank page or we'vegot a whole heap of work to try
to get done.
Sometimes we just need to findsomething new to light our fires

(00:52):
, and whether you're an animator, a designer, you're just
getting started or you've beenaround for a while, today you
should be able to find some ofthat creative caffeine to keep
you going through your day.
Some episodes of Seize the Play! are all about taking a deep
dive on a subject and other ones?
They're roundtables meant tostir up conversation and figure

(01:15):
out where we're going as anindustry.
But today we're going to blastthrough all the news and
exciting discoveries we've madein the last week or two.
That keeps us excited andhungry for doing the work we're
talking tools and techniques,artists and studios even a
question that's been on our mindfor a while, that's kind of
scaring us a little bit.

(01:39):
First off, it's that time ofyear again the 2023 outstanding
main title design nominees forthe Emmys.
Those title sequences for TV.
There's never a shortage of hottakes, controversy, and how
many times did that person getnominated?
Or why wasn't that one included?
Now, before we get too spicy,let's go through the nominees
and see who actually might winthe big award.

(02:00):
All right, here we go.
I'm looking at the list andwe've got some familiar names
and one studio that's kind ofcome out of nowhere with
multiple nominations this year.
That one would be Plains ofYonder with the Lord of the
Rings, rings of Power and WhiteLotus, season 2.
Now, one of the favorites thatalways shows up in this category

(02:23):
here's Imaginary Forces withHello Tomorrow, and then we've
got a little bit of spookyseason coming from both the Mill
, with Guillermo D'Otoro'DelToro's Cabinet of Curiosities,
and Filmograph, with Wednesday,and the last nominee is someone

(02:50):
who really doesn't need much ofan introduction, seen as that
they've won quite a few of thesebefore.
We've got Elastic with the Lastof Us.
So I went around the studio tosee if there's anybody brave
enough to say who their pick towin was, and here's a few of the
responses we got.

Samantha Mireles (03:10):
The title sequence for the White Lotus.
I just really loved thebeautiful imagery that they used
and I feel like it didn't giveaway too much, and each time I
watched it I noticed a subtlehint alluding to different
characters that I thought wasreally interesting, and I really
loved that song.
Hi, this is Rebecca Olson.
I am picking the Last of Usmain titles for the Emmys.

(03:33):
I love sci-fi and I just findthe main title beautiful and
mesmerizing and, above all else,it's just the type of work that
I love to be involved in.

Brian Eloe (03:44):
My pick for this year's best title sequence is
White Lotus.
I just what I loved about itwas, in a weird way, the
simplicity of the actual artworkitself and the little micro
details that are in it and, ofcourse, as it progresses, seeing
the little Easter eggs of thedebauchery and hedonism that are
sort of buried within theactual artwork.

(04:05):
I just I really feel like ittells a story within a story.

Now I'm not even going to try to predict which
one is actually going to winthis year.
It's almost always a fool'serrand.
You can either go with the hothand, the new voice, maybe go
against a studio that has morethan one nomination, but this
year I can tell you which onemoved me the most and it was an
easy pick.
For me, it was the Lord of theRings Rings of Power Sequence
from Plains of Yonder, and Iwill admit I might be biased.

(04:32):
I know of a couple of thepeople that have worked on this
way back in another life when Iworked at Digital Kitchen, but
that's precisely why I loved it.
I'm such a huge fan of thoseold Digital Kitchen classics
like True Blood and Dexter, theones that had this really
amazing mix of things that wereshot on a stage with live action
that have then been augmentedeither by editorial or even CG.
There's just something about anold school Digital Kitchen and

(04:56):
now Plains of Yonder titlesequence that immediately speaks
to me, and this one did thesame, and it goes back to
something that I say quite oftenthat even though we're in a
golden era of TV with more titlesequences than you would ever
imagine, I really don't see alot of title sequences that work
for me.
Now, there are tons of titlesthat look beautiful and there

(05:16):
are even more title sequencesthat look really, really
difficult to create.
But for me there needs to besomething that draws me in, that
makes me want to see the titlesequence multiple times, or
hints at something that I didn'tknow about the show or the
world.
And that's exactly what Lord ofthe Rings Rings of Power does.
They take this unbelievableidea of semantics, the ability
of music to move and shapethings and create patterns and

(05:39):
tie it directly to the lorewithin Lord of the Rings that
there were these beings, thatthe music they sang was so
beautiful that it actuallycreated the entire world around
it.
Under initial viewing if you'renot a huge Lord of the Rings
fan, you may have no clue.
That bit of lore.

(06:00):
But I'm, repeated viewings Ifyou find yourself mesmerized, if
you start putting theconnections together that the
music is actually time to theanimation, it might make you
lean in and actually appreciateit a little bit more and might
even make you go and researchand find out why didn't they do
this?
That's another great thing thatI love about the team over at
Plains of Yonder.
You've got to go to theirwebsite, go to this work and

(06:22):
check out the amazingbehind-the-scenes footage that
explains how far they dove intoresearch and experimentation.
For my money, that's what Ilove about a title sequence.
So do you agree with us, or doyou have a different favorite?
Or maybe you have a hot take onthe very existence of these
awards in the first place?
Whatever it might be, we wantto hear from you.

(06:43):
This is the creativeconversation on all things
animation and motion design,right, and we have a really easy
way for you to do that.
If you head over to speakpipe.
com/seizetheplay, you can leaveus a little voicemail and, to
make it even easier, just go tothe show notes and hit the link
and tell us what you think isthe best title sequence of the
entire year.
Maybe it's one that didn't evenget a nomination.

(07:10):
Being nominated for your work asa motion designer, especially
when it's something like theEmmys, is kind of like going to
the Super Bowl.
But when that work isassociated with something you
love, like Star Wars, it'salmost like being at the World
Cup and the Super Bowl at theexact same time, and I kind of
have a feeling that next yearYu+Co That's where is going to
be with their work for Ahsoka onDisney Plus the new Star Wars

(07:32):
show.
If you take a look at it, itkind of feels a little bit like
Game of Thrones meets some ofthe FUI from a movie like
Prometheus.
And if you're a 3D animatoryou're probably wondering, ryan,
what's all the fuss?
Nothing in this is all thatdifficult to make.
But you and Co's work on Ahsokais exactly the kind of title

(07:53):
sequence I love.
It's the one that rewardsrepeat viewing and maybe even
challenges the viewers to skipthe Skip Titles button.
Skipping, skipping, skipping.

Brian Eloe (08:02):
He's gonna do that.
Don't do that, please don't.
He never skips it.

It really encourages the audience to
investigate the work and look atit closer and watch it at a
deeper level.
For me, every time those mainunantitles come up, I wonder
should I be learning how totranslate that language to see
if there's something that Idon't know about and I find
myself going online to see isthere an Easter egg that I
totally missed?
Now, as a motion designer, thatkind of feels like the biggest

(08:28):
reward, because so much of ourwork is totally ephemeral.
So often it takes longer toactually make the work that we
do as motion designers than itexists actually out in the real
world.
That can be really frustrating,but I really think the work
that you encode in here,especially because it's
associated with Star Wars, isgonna last for a long time.
Speaking of Star Wars caughtsomething on the

(08:48):
behind-the-magic visual effectsreal for Mandalorian season 3.
That really started making mewonder what's next for motion
design.
I know, I know sometimes theshow feels like people are just
running out poison hands andfilming them, but if you watch
this real, what really strikesme is that it's an incredible
mix of live-action practicaleffects that were done on the
day and CG visual effects, and Iknow that doesn't really sound

(09:09):
like it's all that new, butthere are a couple of moments in
the real that really made mewonder how soon will we be
playing with this technology andmotion design as more and more
tools start popping up on thehorizon that let me do things
like scan real-world objects andbring them immediately into
places like real-time engines,like unreal, and then combine it
with motion capture fromSomething as simple as an iPhone

(09:29):
.
All these big budget visualeffects tools are sitting right,
just out of reach for us asmotion designers, and one of the
things I cannot wait to playwith are these gigantic volume
LED sets that let you takereal-time worlds and Shoot them
with actual cameras to combinethem with real actors.
When you watch something likeMandalorian or Ahsoka, you start

(09:51):
thinking maybe those are gonnabe the toys we get to start
playing with really soon.
Sticking with the Star Warstheme, some that's been really
been inspiring us lately is thework of Justin Harder.
He goes by Claus Studios onTwitter.
He recently posted his take onAhsoka and going through the
rest of his work as we clickedon that, it really amazed us how

(10:14):
he can take something like anillustration with bold colors
and chaotic energy and translateExactly that same kind of style
into something like his 50years of hip-hop designs for
audible.
You'll see their kinetic typethat's anchored by dark black
values but punctuated with thisreally awesome typography that
almost mirrors the energy of hisbrushwork, and then this crazy

(10:35):
color palette that's becomeJustin's hallmark now.
I think that's cool aboutJustin, and one of the reasons
why we call him whenever we canhear it spilt is that he also
takes that energy and Reigns itin for things that require tight
design and photography.
You've got to take a look athis work for things like
Whataburger or Cheerios to seethe range that this artist has,
and that's Justin Harder ClausStudios over on Twitter, and if

(10:57):
you get a chance, you've got tocheck out his take on some of
the familiar villains fromTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
His bebop and rocksteady blewour minds.
Something that we've beenwaiting an eternity for to blow
our minds is tune shading inRedshift for Cinema 4D, and up
until now it's been kind of apipe dream.
But we happen to be stumblingthrough our Instagram and ran

(11:23):
across the account of AnthonyPalermo, an awesome 3d artist,
who just happened to make areally cool Gundam robot render
and honestly it looks like itcould be ripped straight from an
anime, but it turns out theRedshift Toon shader from You
And Me Academy just dropped andeverywhere we look we're
starting to see more and moreawesome tune shade renderings
from Theodore Daley's awesomeanime inspired car renderings
that look like they could beripped from the pages of Initial

(11:44):
D, to Jeremy Cox'smonochromatic Pentax camera
renders feels like there's awide range of capabilities.
Now this YMA shader is made byyou and me Academy and if you go
to their YouTube channel,there's a specific Spider-verse
Style tutorial called thetutorial.
That's worth checking outbecause it's a thing that I love
the most.
So far about the shader.
Now, there's been lots of waysto be able to have the lit side

(12:05):
of a model one color and theshadow side of a model another
color, and pretty much everyrender engine.
But what this one does that'sreally cool is it really gives
you a lot of flexibility forthat terminator line, that line
that demarks the differencebetween those two sides.
Most of time it's just a hardcrisp line, but with the YMA
shader you can really address itin unique ways To dial up a
style that's all your own.
What I love is that you canapply a half tone, pattern,

(12:27):
cross hatch All different kindsof ways to break up that line to
make something that's uniquelyyours.
It will have a fast, artdirectable, flexible tune shader
built right into redshift.
It's something that can open upa lot of different
possibilities, not just for our3d team but also for our
designers.
You know, one of the best waysto get inspiration, whether
you're a designer or an animator, is to keep a lookout for new

(12:52):
demo reels, and recently we raninto the demo reel of Julia
Seamus and I have to tell youit's got some of the most
squishy, stretchy, spinnyanimation We've ever seen.
Julia's reel really shows offthe power of cell animation, the
ability to take something thatfeels totally personal but at
the same time has so much energy.
And as much as we love thingslike after effects and cinema 4d
, it's just so hard to capturesomething like that that comes

(13:16):
straight from the human hand.
And what's so cool aboutJulia's reel is that, even
though there's tons of personalwork, you can see that same
style applied to clients likesimpsons, scope and star trek.
And even cooler than that isthe way Julia uses 2d cell
animation to create animatedtype.
Now, we love using after factto be able to animate type.

(13:36):
But there's something sospecial about how bouncy and
squishy and just Full ofhumanity that Julia's animated
type contains.
The thing that's crazy is sheworks for places like buck and
bns and scowler and all thosestudios that in your head you
can almost immediately see whatthat animation would look like.
But the one that really stuckwith us was a piece that you
should definitely check out.
It was called let's go for sitgo and it was done at scowler

(13:58):
and there's just this campfirescene that when you watch
Julia's reel you can see, astyle and a voice.
In terms of the look,everything has this just nice
flat, shaded color kind of feelthat all of a sudden the
campfire scene pops up on a reeland it feels like a totally
different piece.
It has a totally differentillustrative quality.
There's more details, thegradients are way more intricate

(14:20):
and there's a different senseof depth and dimension.
You know we have a saying hereit's built that Sometimes we get
really friend jealous ofsomeone, and it's a great word
to describe that feeling whenyou love something so much that
you wish you could do it.
And that's the way we felt theentire time when we watched
Julie is real over and over andover.

(14:48):
Continuing with the 2d animationtip, I've got two really
awesome quick kits for you.
The first one is from DanielDuce, an Argentinian animator
with a piece called the he upthan a terro.
Now I've only found the 30second version of this, but it's
this awesome indie animated webseries and it kind of gives me
Genndy Tartakovsky clone warsvibes, those early Star Wars

(15:08):
shorts, mixed with the very veryfirst couple of Gorillaz music
videos.
Remember those first ones, theone for Clint Eastwood, where
everything was kind of thick,almost looked like a comic book
style rendering.
This has that same vibe andwhat I love about it is that you
get these really roughillustration lines in a lot of
the close-ups of the animationand he mixes in a lot of impact

(15:29):
frames whenever there's anexplosion or a hit, but just has
this really really personaldrawing style that feels
influenced by, but reallydifferent than, most modern
anime.
There's a couple things youreally got to check out when you
flip through it that we watchedMultiple times and we're taking
notes.
One is that there's thislightning sword really close to
the end that Swoops around andhas these crazy lines of action
and follow through that.

(15:49):
The first time you see it, itstands on, it doesn't look like
it should work, but when you goback and watch it over and over,
there's a lot of lessons tolearn from there.
The other thing is there's thisreally dope dropkick action
where, whoever the hero is, thisspace hero kicks this giant
grill in the face and it almostdoes this slow motion effect
that feels like you can only getin 2d animation, where it's
fast and then an impacteverything slows down and then

(16:10):
you can see him do this greatpush-off and everything speeds
back up.
I love the economic use of heldframes and a lot of the shots
here and then they're mixed inso that it doesn't get boring a
lot of dynamic facial animationor kind of special effects, as
Everything else holds.
It's one of those things thatyou find yourself the first time
watch like yeah, this is cool.
But the more often you watch itover and over and makes you

(16:33):
almost want to break down Eachindividual shot to see what
kinds of things you could borrowin your own work.
They've your watch to loop overand over and over without
realizing how many times you'veseen it.
So the point where you start towonder where was the starting
and where was the ending.
That's how I feel about JeremyPires' recent 2d animation of an
orange and yellow kind ofhumanoid figure Running,

(16:54):
colliding, pushing, swirling andrebuilding themselves from each
other.
It's a really awesome look athow you can mix timing with
really rough drawings but solidanatomy to give a unique
signature.
It has an almost a cure-likevibe to it in the sense that the
characters Smoosh into eachother, run apart, twirl and
rebuild themselves.

(17:14):
There's so many little detailsin here that don't feel like
stereotypical motion design thatit really shows how hypnotic
Well-made 2d animation can be,even when it's only 15 seconds
long.
You know, if I'm gonna namedrop a classic Akira here like
here, probably should also namedrop something like Studio
Ghibli.
And that's the first thing wethought of when we saw this Ikea

(17:37):
slice of life ad come acrossour feet over Twitter.
The first thing that hit me waswhat studio did this?
Because it's got this Relaxing,lo-fi, girl chill vibe that you
don't really ascribe toAdvertising work.
The backgrounds in this pieceare amazing.
They look hand-painted, theyhave a warm glow.
The character animation isreally laid back.

(18:00):
It's just a slice of lifeanimation.
It's not something you normallysee.
But it's got this really smartattention to detail that shows
that Ikea is aiming for a reallySpecific audience.
Now, that kind of restraintisn't normally what you go to
when you try to find ananimation studio.
You normally go to a studio fortheir specific voice rather
than the voice of the audience.
So I had to dive in and do somehomework to find out who really

(18:23):
did this job.
I mean, start researching.
You see, some of the usualsuspects.
When I dove just a little bitdeeper to find out who actually
did the work, I saw a name Inever recognized.
Have you ever heard of the teamClub Camping?
Because I certainly hadn't, butnow I want to know everything
about them.
If you go to your site, you'llsee the murderers row of clients
.
They've worked with Adidas,Disney, Porsche.
But the moment you watch thereal, the magic really starts to

(18:45):
come through, because I had areally hard time telling where
the client work stopped and thepersonal work started.
And if you go to the real, thedepth that they went into for
creating original opening titlesfor it is pretty amazing.
It's almost like a short filmitself.
None of Club Campings worklooks like typical motion design
and it doesn't even look liketypical character animation
either.
Spend a few moments on clubcampaign site watching some

(19:07):
other work and it really startsto challenge the conventional
knowledge of what our work canlook like.
And after I watched their workon the IKEA slice of life
campaign it started making mewonder what the influence of
anime has been on motion design,getting really excited by the
recent rush of anime influencespots that have been hitting the
airwaves lately.
The Megan Rapino commercial forLet It Rip, the spot by Psyop

(19:29):
and Wiz design, has tons ofhallmarks of anime influence.
It almost feels like theThundercats opening title
sequence that was animated byTMS way back in the day.
It even sneaks in a littleAkira bike slide homage in there
.
Then there's also the fairlyrecent Chibani commercial called
Dear Alice by The Line that hasbackgrounds that look like they
are ripped from Studio Ghiblifilms.

(19:51):
The production for that moviehad six background artists alone
creating artwork that feels solush they can be sold as art
prints for something like Totoroor spirit it away.
They even were able to have theentire piece scored by Joe
Hisaishi, the composer thatscored most of Studio Ghibli's
films.
The studio The Line is nostranger to playing with anime

(20:13):
tropes.
They actually created an entireseries dedicated to Acura Type
S.
It's Chiaki's Journey journey.
It feels like it's ripped fromthe pages of a show, like
Initial D.
You've got to watch the initial10 second opening for that
series because I think there's alot of lessons there that we
can learn.
If Some of us love anime.
They really combine some thingsthat I think we do well in
motion design, using verygraphic, really bold and stark

(20:36):
uses of color and silhouette,but it combines it with the
dynamicism of anime camera movesand effects.
It's really something to study,to see where you might be able
to borrow something to add justthat little bit of energy that
Sometimes our work could bemissing without feeling like
it's completely cribbing orstealing from anime tropes.
So that's food, furniture,shoes and cars done in an anime

(20:58):
style.
Take a look at all these piecesbecause maybe now it's time to
put some anime references intoyour next pitch.
Now, if we're talking anime andold-school 2d animation, maybe
wonder yourself what's the bestplace to start learning cell
animation, and there's lots ofgreat tools out there, so you
might already have Adobe animate, comes with the creative cloud,

(21:19):
and if you have an iPad,there's Procreate, which very
soon will be having a new appcalled Procreate Dreams.
You're just for 2d animationand we can't wait to get our
hands on it.
Here.
It's spilled, but right now thebiggest thing that's been on
our radar is Blender, with theiramazing grease pencil tool,
which you've all heard.
It's free right Now.

(21:41):
I know everybody likes to jokeabout it, but with a couple of
essential add-ons, blender canbe a really inexpensive,
powerful tool that we're lookingat it right now to see what
could we be using it for, andcell animation is definitely one
of those things.
But if you've ever tried torecommend the interface to
somebody who is a 2d artist oreven somebody who's familiar

(22:02):
with something like Cinema 4Dinterface can be pretty
intimidating.
Not everything works the sameway you would expect, and there
are a lot of commands and a lotof tools to build up that
all-important muscle memory.
Recently, we ran across someoneon LinkedIn named Maciej Gliwa,
a developer who's been workingon an add-on that looks to be

(22:25):
exactly what we need For newpeople trying to learn how to do
cell animation in Blender.
This tool is called Vision GP,and he's developed a couple of
other add-ons in the past calledGP tools that have gotten rave
reviews before, but what's greatabout this is that if you watch
the links to his demos, theinterface seems to melt away and
there's probably only a handfulof buttons, and it just creates

(22:46):
a beautiful place to focus ondrawing.
Now it makes it a lot easier,but why would you want to work
inside a 3d app?
Well, there's a lot of thingsyou can do.
You're working in a true 3denvironment, so you can kind of
work in the best of both worlds2d and 3d.
We're really excited and I kindof wonder what else it can mean
for grease pencil.
Does it mean that you mighthave a very efficient

(23:08):
storyboarding tool as well ascell animation?
Who knows?
We got to wait till this thingactually comes out, but much is
talking about in the next monthor two that it might actually be
available.
So what are you waiting for?
You might as well go ahead anddownload Blender and start
learning grease pencil for allof its strengths as it is now
and then, when it comes out,take Vision GP for a road test.
It's quite an amazing time to beworking in motion design,

(23:30):
because we're really able totake advantage of all the
investment in new technologyfrom industries like visual
effects and feature film and TVanimation.
Now, using a new tool to dosomething that you're already
familiar with, it's actually notall that scary and, to be
honest, sometimes it can bereally exciting.
But when you're trying to dosomething completely foreign to

(23:52):
you, it can really feel liketrying to learn an alien
language from the ground up.
One of those things that'sexcited us for a long time but
it's been pretty scary is thisnew technology of shooting on
volume stages.
At Spilt we do lots ofdifferent kinds of jobs,
sometimes motion design,sometimes animation, sometimes
live action, and a lot of timeswe like to combine all of it.

(24:13):
But when we do, we use fairlytraditional methods.
We're used to shooting on set,art, directing something.
We have to create a crazybackdrop we call it a green
screen but for the most partthat's technology that we've
understood for a long time.
Remember back when I wastalking about Mandalorian.
We've been fascinated by thosevolume stages that let you shoot
on an LED volume with a ceilingand a wrap around screen, all

(24:37):
powered by something like Unreal.
We've actually even had acouple of clients ask us what do
we know about these volumestages?
And, to be honest, we reallythought that, for a motion
design studio, it might reallybe out of our reach to try to
use a tool like this.
That was until we saw VasheNetomansky's video about his 20
minute behind the scenes of hisvery first virtual production

(24:58):
project, and he's always someonewho's experimenting with new
technology, whether it's aplugin for his editing suite or
a different way to approach liveaction.
I'd really encourage you totake some time and watch Vashe's
breakdown.
He shows all the exciting partsand some of the things that are
actually bottlenecks for indieproductions trying to use a
volume.
All that said, is there a placefor motion designers to

(25:19):
actually start using these toolsas well?
Now, it's one thing to sit downand watch someone you respect
talking about their experience.
Another thing to get your handson the technology yourself, and
here it's built.
We really like to get messy, sowhen we saw on Instagram that
the American Society ofCinematographers was putting on
a masterclass on shooting involumes, we knew we had to send

(25:40):
someone out into the field tofigure out is this something for
us?
And there was no better personthan to send Senior Creative
Director Brian Eloe out to LA todo some research.
They're teaching people how touse volumes and we have a client
who actually has a volume andwe need to learn how to use it,
we need to learn what's possiblewith it.

(26:01):
So, like, with that stage, like, what was this trip like for
you?
Like, were you stoked, were younervous, were you excited, were
you scared?
Like, what do you do when youwalk up to the doors of I'm
assuming in my head this giantJurassic Park-sized doorway of
the ASC?
What's that like for you.

Brian Eloe (26:18):
I think you hit on at least three of the emotions
for sure.
Like I was nervous, of course,because I feel, like you know,
asc is there specifically agroup of cinematographers who
they're kind of the creme de lacreme, right, they do the big
Hollywood features.
So you know, I mean I work witha lot of really talented
cinematographers who generallycome from like music, video or
short form, but these are theones who are making like the
features that are, you know,setting culture right.

(26:40):
So there's there's a level oflike you go in with reverence
and you go in with sort of a hatand hand humility that you want
to make sure you're, I mean Imean I hate to say it like try
not to say something dumb, right?
So like the first thing is justto kind of like go and get a
feel for things.
And the class started at ARI.
So, like you know, it's a, astoried facility and you know

(27:00):
ARI has been part of moviemaking and cinematography for
ever and ever.
So first thing is you start onthe campus of that and they've
built a like a test volume sothey can go in and basically,
when you go calibrate yourcamera package, you test the
lenses to make sure they're not.
They're not going to more rayand they're not going to do that
.
So so the first thing thathappened was like, how do we
break this thing?
What?
What can we do?
That makes it mess up becausethey want us to see like, here's

(27:23):
the problems.
You're going to have to solvethis.
And so it was really fascinatingjust in terms of like.
Right there, there's alreadynuggets of like.
What happens with anamorphiclenses?
What happens with certain kindsof spherical lenses?
What happens if your subject istoo close to the wall?
How do you correct for thoseproblems?
And so that was a big thing.
Right, there is like I knew itwas going through the lens of
what would cinematographers do.

(27:43):
And so, generally, as adirector, that's like my arm and
arm partner, right, I mean,that's the person who's most
responsible for the technicalaspect of our production.

That's exciting to me because I feel like you and
I have gone through this rightLike we've talked to people
we've we're trying to find jobsthat we can maybe work in the
volume with, mostly becausewe're excited, but also because
we know like it's going to comedown the line sooner or later.
I'm excited to hear more aboutthat because it's always been
sold up me and us as like awonder drug.
Like green screens, you don'thave to do good things anymore
If you just know a little unreal, just walk in and it's ready to

(28:14):
go.
And you know that that's nottrue.
But there's also like comingfrom a like a motion design shop
that does animation and liveaction.
You have a limited amount oflike experience, right Like.
You touch everything, but youalso know you don't know
everything about almost anything.
So what is it a wonder drug?
Is it like something thatyou're like if you just have a
scene file and unreal, you canload it in and you move a camera

(28:34):
and it matches everything,because it feels like it's sold
like that, and we know that thatthat can't be the case, right?
Yes, that is not the case.

Brian Eloe (28:42):
I mean, look, it is a magnificent tool and it is a
tool like anything else and solike it has its applications and
it's things that that that itwill do well, but I think the
biggest outcome of that wasseeing all the things that can
kind of potentially go wrong, ifthere.
If there was one thing that Iwould say that was like hammered
over and over again, it is howcritical prep is.
You don't just load it on realfile and then throw people up on

(29:04):
it Like you have to go in andyou test your camera angles.
I mean, the way it works is, ofcourse there's a frustrum right
, and that's the thing.
That sort of freezes or updatesthe video that your camera is
seeing.
Everything else is they turn offthe sampling, it turns off all
of the, the render, intensivepieces of it, and so going and
testing all of that before youever get started is critical,

(29:26):
and so I think that's the partthat sort of is makes it less of
a wonder drug.
Is that if you don't do that?
And there were some things thathappened in the AC course where
the instructors came withmaterials that they didn't send
the studio ahead of time andthere were problems.
So there were problems with thefrustrum and the tracking and
and it's like.
So there's a lot of littlelittle nuances that I think make
it sort of the you have to, youhave to have your stuff button

(29:49):
up we keep on hearing all thesethings about.

You know, obviously you watch the
Mandalorian or behind the sceneson the Batman and they're like,
oh, this is so great becausewe're taking everything you
never do in post production andwe're just doing it at the
beginning, and then what you seeis what you get.
To me it's like there's areason why there's a good,
healthy, long amount of postproduction, because you don't
know what you want, or somethingchanges and you discover
something.
Is this something that youthink actually applies to
studios, like built and motiondesigners who are interested in

(30:14):
it?
Like, is this something that'slike a nice, shiny object, that
it's like, oh, once every threeyears, you're going to get to go
on one of these.
Or is it something that youthink that, like, motion
designers should be interestedin?
Shops should be like exploringfurther.

Brian Eloe (30:24):
OK.
So I absolutely think shopsshould be interested in
exploring it further.
Right now I would say it'sperhaps not as applicable to us
or it's going to be moredifficult to sort of deploy.
But I feel like this is thatclassic thing where it's a
technology that we're all awareof but still relatively
fledgling in its life, and sothey're continuing to improve on
real and making it easier towork with.

(30:46):
They're working on there's aplug-in, this part of it called
Lumen, which allows for livelighting to happen in the sort
of environment.
So I feel like being curiousabout those things and working
on those things now means thatin a couple years it could be
something that's a lot more ofthe norm.
There's a tremendous amount ofexpense to build a volume and
there's a tremendous amount ofexpense to use the volume.

(31:08):
So that's the thing that makesit a little tough for smaller
motion shops is that sellingthat through into production and
getting a client to sort of buythe day rate of that, I think,
is still a little off.
But then again there's morevolumes being built and so then
you're not going to be on aMandalorian-sized stage, you're
not going to be on the fullthree-quarter arc, you're going

(31:29):
to be on a smaller version of itand I feel like that is
becoming more accessible andit's really important as a
studio a motion design studiothat's about solving problems
and telling stories to know thatthis tool is there and to
understand it well enough to beable to go and do it.

It's kind of crazy to me the rate at which it's
moving because there's so manymoving parts.
Do we have anything in-houseright now, a type of job that
people listening could startimagining how they could also
use it?
Is there anything we're lookingat that?
Hey, instead of going and doinga green screen or trying to do
a three-day shoot and capturemagic hour, try this.
What's the scale that's withinreach for us right now?

Brian Eloe (32:04):
I mean, we have one and it's like the thinking is
very traditional they want to goon location, they want to shoot
with celebrities, they havemultiple setups that they want
to do, and so those are allthings that in a traditional
production environment.
Locations are expensive,they're tricky because you don't
know exactly what you're goingto get.
Are your angles right?
There is a certain amount ofset build, there's a cost
associated with renting thelocation, and then that's just

(32:26):
the one setup and then,hopefully, you've got a location
that affords you.
I turn the camera and I pop up agreen screen and I can get the
other angles.
So in this particular thing,it's like they have a very
specific vision for the room andlocation that they want to do.
It's a wall of TVs, it has alot of interactive lighting,
which is brilliant for what avolume does, and then they want

(32:47):
to basically propel this personto a concert setting and so
being able to just flip thescreen and put up green without
having to put up a frame, it'slike boom, it's a flip of a
switch, basically, and so yeah,that until it's up.

And then, of course, there's the whole car
process aspect of it, which islike driving right If I never
had to do another process shot,like have a camera in a car and
shoot so I can see some out thewindow.
Did you guys go over that atall or show it at all at the
actual masterclass?
Because to me just that as acapability would have me
interested.

Brian Eloe (33:20):
We went to several places.
First of all, we started atAiry and then we went to work
Kinaflow as their facility, andthey brought in what's called
Magic Box, and so Magic Box isbasically a semi trailer that
comes with three screens, anoverhead lights, a control
center, so it's basically theycan bring the volume to you.
Inside there is a giganticturntable and ramps that let you

(33:42):
roll a car up onto it, and sobasically, you can position the
car as you like.
And then it's a matter of ifyou can either load unreal
scenes or you can use cameraarray, running footage, right.
So, like you, the traditional,you send out a car, a camera car
that has multiple cameras andcaptures all the different
angles from the different thingsto create the sense of actual
movement and driving.
And it's like and same thing.

(34:04):
Like you can roll through, we'redriving in the desert, we're
now driving in the mountains,we're now is just depending on
where you get your scenes from.
Like, all of this hasinteractive lighting.
From the LED screens you getbeautiful reflections that feel
like the running footage, you'rein the running footage.
So, yeah, they covered thatvery much.
And then sort of the next daywas where we went to orbital
studios where we had a large LEDbackground and then they have

(34:27):
kind of a half arc as well.
This is smaller LED volume, soit was more of the backdrop
versus the overhead ceiling.

So they didn't have ceilings or floors, but I
guess that's one of theimportant things to talk about
too is like these thingseverybody just says volume,
right, but like these thingscome in a lot of different
flavors, right.
It's just like cameras or 3Dpackages that like there's
different ones, there'sdifferent use cases, I'm sure
there's like different gotchaswith them, like things you can't
do or things you have to prepfor.
To me, that was one of the coolthings about this masterclass
is that you're gettingexperience Yep, a wide range of

(34:56):
it, not just dropped into astudio and you know, play with a
camera for an hour and thenwalk away.

Brian Eloe (35:00):
Totally yeah.
So I mean that's the justdefinitions, right, like lingo,
get the feel for it.
Like a volume technically is anLED backdrop.
That's where it starts, andthen you can have arcs, you can
have ceilings, you can havefloors, yeah.
So there's definitely multipleflavors of things that sort of
get added to this and sort of upthe level of like what you do

(35:20):
with it.
And then the other thing is,you know, a very specific gotcha
.
One of the things that they kindof covered ad nauseam is just
like you really cannot justlight with the LED volume.
You can use it to bring ambience, but they're LED panels and so
they're lacking certain spectrum.
And so from a cinematographerstandpoint like I found that's
truly fascinating of like theirRGB and so they look bad on skin

(35:42):
Right.
So for a particular, for aproducer's standpoint who think,
well, we'll just light with thewall, like you really do need
to bring in movie lights, youneed to bring in something that
actually helps with skin tones.
And one of the key things thatDave Klein is employed is
bringing in tungsten.
That used to be kind of a don'tbring in tungsten lights with
these LED things he's like, butit fills in the spectrum that's
missing and that's what helpssort of sell skin, and he's like

(36:03):
when we do things that needthat, it's like that's what the
tungsten stuff does, and sothat's the reason to take a
class like this is to kind oflearn some of those little
nuances that make all thedifferences in like selling the
composite.

Who did you run into and like what projects are
they associated with?

Brian Eloe (36:17):
Dave Klein was the sort of day one guy and again
Mandalorian, but he also, youknow, he's the Kevin Smith guy,
so he shot all rats and clerksand chasing Amy.
Then day two features RobLegato, who is kind of the
fundamental VFX guy, right, andhe's a second second unit
director.
I mean he's done things likeApollo 13 avatar.
I mean he was part of JurassicPark to a degree, I mean.

(36:40):
So again, he's done the LionKing that Favreau directed.
So again, just in terms of likehis resume it's just endless.
I think one of the things that Ireally got out of his thing was
just how, how intimatelyinvolved the VFX supervisor, at
least in his world, is involvedin previsualization of these
films.
He has to figure out how theseshots are being made, right In
terms of the VFX.
So he goes in and he's flyingcamera wheels or working with

(37:04):
somebody to kind of like helpbuild the previs and how the
shots work.
So again, just that kind oflike knowledge base.
That here's a guy who's likeroll up his you know he's not,
he's not in an office somewhere,you know, with his cup of
coffee, waving a pen, like no,he's, he's got his kid wearing a
motion cap suit to be the, theNavi and Navi avatar, avatar to
get a sense for how that works,right.
And then he was like, sadly, she, you know, didn't win the role.

(37:24):
We gave it to the real actress.
And then sitting right next tohim is Dean Cundy, who shot the
thing Crazy Jurassic Park.
He's the actual cinematographeron Apollo 13.
And so, yeah, I mean again,you're just like, hey, I'm in
the room with these.
You know these people that, oh,all the entire Back to Future
series too.
So, like you know again, all ofthese films that I would say
got me excited about this career, like you know these things

(37:47):
that you watch.
That's like why you know I havesuch a VFX heavy.
Or you know, sci-fi, or evenjust the storytelling through
this medium that requires thesort of addition of the effects
that's here we are rubbingelbows with this person.

Like they're there as peers trying to break this
stuff, trying to figure thisstuff out and figure out how to
use it, like totally yeah.

Brian Eloe (38:06):
Yeah, I mean.
I mean the last thing I wouldsay too, about especially the
luminaries, of rubbing elbowswith them, is like the number
one thing, which it's like weall know it but at the same time
like to hear them talking aboutit.
Like you would think, oh, thesepeople love visual effects.
They're they're kind of gearnerds, right, and they're gonna,
they're always going to lookfor ways to bring that stuff in.
But again, they just keptsaying it's about the story,
it's not about the tool, right?
So this is just a tool and likeit's not always the right thing

(38:29):
to do this.
And I mean it was interesting.
Somebody asked Dean at one point, like hey, if you could go back
in time in your movies andshoot something else on a volume
, would you?
And he was like, well, I'm notreally sure.
He's like maybe, maybe some ofthe car process with you know,
michael J Fox, and back to thefuture, he's like because that
was tricky, trying to shoot inthe car and get the reflections
and that sort of world he's like.

(38:49):
But the truth of the matter islike I'm trying to tell a story
and I'm trying to like lead.
You know, lead, the camera,have that lead people places,
and so I found that fascinating,because I feel like you know
again, when you're associatedwith these movies that have such
a heavy visual effectscomponent, to think that again,
for them it's still just aboutthe story, and how do I tell
this story?

I mean again, that's another reason to have
these conversations and beingthese groups, because I think we
get so stuck in using thehammers that we have available
to us.
It's got to work LikeX-Particles does this.
I just am missing the rightsettings and I got to keep on
banging away at it, versus likemaybe I could just pour some
honey into a cup with a nicelens on my DSLR and it's going
to do everything I need it to do.
And I can comp it in Hearingpeople who have done things like

(39:32):
that and they aren't just likestarstruck by new technology,
like yeah, it's cool when I needit, but I got to know what it
can do in the first place.
We'll make that decision.
It's like a sobering reminder.

Brian Eloe (39:41):
Yeah, and it's funny you say that, because I feel
like the crazy thing that thestory that Dean told he's like,
and he's like I'll hand you thisprevis and I'm like I didn't
have any input in the previous.
So who's making the movie here?
And then I get this thing andit's like, and they have these
camera moves that are likeflying up and over and they're
just, you know, impractical fordoing it.
It's like I can't go.
I couldn't get a camera in thatcorner to capture that Like.
So like just don't have anylike cinematography grammar.

(40:03):
And where's the close up Like?
Where's the texture, where'sthe?
You get enamored with the bigfancy camera move and you lose
sight of like we're stilltelling a story here.
We still need these momentsthat give us reaction, that give
us reflection of what thecharacter is feeling, what's the
character seeing, what are thethings that I'm trying to like
tell the viewer this is animportant part of the story and

(40:23):
he's like that's the thing that,like when new tools come out,
people get enamored with thatpart of it.
You know, we still need to havea cinematography grammar that
everybody can, you know, latchtheir wagons to.

Well, there you go .
There's another episode ofSeize the Play, and you got to
see how some things make usscared but also excited.
We cannot wait to get on one ofthose volumes and really start
digging into Unreal, but this isthe creative conversation that
you're involved with as well.
What are you scared of?
Just got too excited.
And what's your pick for thetitle sequence?

(40:56):
Emmy, make sure to hit us up atspeakpipecom.
Slash seize the play.
You can look for that link downin the show notes and tell us
what's on your mind.
What do you think of the speedround around the entire spilt
studio?
Was it too long?
Was not enough?
Let us know and get ready forthe next episode.
We're going to be talking allabout imposter syndrome and the

(41:16):
fear of the blank page and alsowhat it's like to direct at
spilt.
Until then, what are youwaiting for?
Get out there and seize theplay.
Seize the play is a spiltstudio podcast.
If you have an idea of someoneyou'd like us to talk to you or
a topic you'd like to hear moreabout, drop us a line at play at

(41:38):
spiltcom.
That's S P, I L L T dot com.
And if you like what you hear,subscribe.

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