May 22, 2024 • 13 mins
Have you ever stood at life's crossroads, feeling your pulse quicken at the thought of venturing into the unknown? Today, we wade through the emotional complexity of significant life transitions and how they test our mental and emotional fortitude. Join us in a candid conversation that balances the thrill of new beginnings with the poignant act of letting go. We're not just talking about any change; we're talking about the game-changers, the shifts that redefine the very fabric of daily existence—career moves, lifestyle transformations, and the bittersweet farewells to the familiar.
This episode is a heartfelt exploration of the art of decision-making when the heart and mind are in conflict. We delve into why a simple pros and cons list might fall short and how assigning emotional weights to our options can illuminate the path ahead. Alongside our personal insights, we offer practical self-reflective exercises that promise to support your inner journey even as you chase those horizon-broadening goals. If you've ever grappled with a decision that could pivot the direction of your life's story, this heartfelt heart-to-heart is crafted just for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Self-Care Society podcast with
your hosts Celia Williamson,ashley Kuchar, louie Guardiola
and Keri Shaw, a podcast devotedto those whose job it is to
help others get or remainmentally, physically and
emotionally healthy, but whoalso need to take care of
themselves.
And how we're going to do this?
(00:22):
By first showing you thefiltered, pretty version of
success, and then the realstruggles, real work and raw
grit it took to get there, howthey took care of themselves and
also achieved their goals whiledoing it Together.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We will work with you to improve and maintain your
internal health and growth whilehelping you achieve your
external goals and your nextprofessional achievement in life
, and we're excited to show youhow to follow your own
individual and unique path andachieve the dreams you have
while taking good care ofyourself.
So let's get started.
Hello and welcome to theself-care podcast.
(01:03):
My name is Isabel Matosian andI will be your host for today's
episode.
Today, we are going to talkabout the power of making lists
again, not really.
We're going to talk about theabsolutely gutting feeling of
moving on to bigger and brighterthings, while also having to
leave behind some reallyfantastic things.
(01:24):
While also having to leavebehind some really fantastic
things.
Moving on can be scary andstressful, and hard and
unpredictable, but perhaps evenmore so, it can be exhilarating
and can lead you to someunexpected places.
The question of the day is howdo you decide that it's time to
move on when the answer is notobvious?
We all know that sometimes itis.
(01:48):
Sometimes it's not worth it tocontinue putting up with being
treated poorly orunderappreciated, or that the
strain of a job isn't benefitingyou anymore but is actually
harming you.
Those are the times when youknow that the risk is worth it
because what you have currentlyis more destructive than helpful
, know that the risk is worth itbecause what you have currently
(02:08):
is more destructive thanhelpful.
But then we have the timeswhere there's no clear,
objective or emotional answer.
There are things you love aboutyour current roles, lifestyle
and experiences, but then otheropportunities may prevent
themselves which would offerincredible growth and future
success, as well as thatexcitement of starting something
new.
You can take the tactic ofasking others what they think
(02:30):
you should do, and that can behelpful to a certain extent,
especially depending on whoyou're asking.
Your best friend may have adifferent point of view than a
co-worker, or they may have adifferent opinion than a family
member who relies on you, orthey may have a different
opinion than a family member whorelies on you.
Someone who relies on you mayunconsciously consider the
(02:53):
benefits of you staying whereyou are so you can continue
helping them.
People are objective to acertain extent, but never
entirely, and that's not a poorreflection on them.
It's just how humans arehardwired.
We feel big emotions and letthose emotions play a role in
our choices, whether we mean toor not.
At the end of the day, the bestperson to make those big,
life-altering decisions for youis you.
(03:14):
This is where that conversationabout lists comes in.
I know we talk about makinglists to set priorities a lot,
but what kind of list do youmake when you need to make a
choice that could reframe yourentire future.
Oftentimes, people start with apros and cons list.
Now, there are pros and cons tomaking a pros and cons list.
(03:34):
This can really apply to anybig choice, but let's assume
that we're talking about thechoice to stay working in your
current city and communityversus taking a great
opportunity in another state,away from your current community
that you've built.
It could also be another city,of course.
This is just to give us somecontext while we discuss how to
(03:56):
make these big choices.
So one pro to the pros and consis the actual activity of
sitting down and listing thegood things and the bad things
about making a big choice.
Making the effort to thinkthrough all possible pros and
cons of a given course of actionand then capturing them in
writing minimizes the likelihoodthat critical factors are going
(04:19):
to be missed.
Assigning weights to each ofthe pros and cons is an
additional exercise thatpromotes deeper thinking and
presumably leads to betterquality decision making.
It can also help you gain somedistance from the emotion behind
your decision-making.
Important decisions are likelyto evoke powerful emotions.
(04:40):
Going through the steps ofcreating a pros and cons list
can create what researchersAslam Aydouk and Ethan Cross
refer to as a self-distanceperspective, which is where the
decision is viewed as anexternal problem to be addressed
and that eases the impact ofthe emotions surrounding the
decision.
(05:00):
Deferring the decision pendingthe pro-con analysis can also
provide a gap in time where thepowerful emotions can dissipate.
This reduces the risk of anamygdala hijack.
This is the cognitivephenomenon popularized by Daniel
Goleman, in which perceivedemotional threats can lead to
(05:23):
extreme actions, often withundesirable outcomes.
The most compelling pro of all,the pros and cons list, is
generally a well-understood tool.
It requires no specialcomputational or analytical
(05:47):
expertise and is just kind ofsimple to administer.
As for the cons, a pros andcons list can be vulnerable to
cognitive biases.
These are common patterns ofthinking that have been
demonstrated to lead to errorsin judgment and poor decision
making.
Unfortunately, the samesimplicity that makes the pros
and cons list so appealing cancreate many opportunities for a
ton of cognitive biases toemerge.
(06:09):
So one such bias is the framingeffect.
Pros and cons lists generallyare about evaluating two
alternatives, which is kind of athumbs up or a thumbs down
scenario, and an example ofnarrow framing, which is a bias
created by overly constrainingthe set of possible outcomes.
Then there is theoverconfidence effect, which is
(06:35):
a well-established cognitivebias.
This is the tendency ofindividuals to overestimate the
reliability of their judgments.
When creating a pros and conslist, it's likely that many
(06:55):
people assume a level ofaccuracy in their assessment of
pros and cons which really justisn't there.
And then we have the illusionof control when faced with the
task of envisioning possibleoutcomes.
A common bias is to believethat one can control the
outcomes that in reality are notcontrollable.
Besides these cognitive biases,there is also a reliance on
analytical thinking.
Using an analytical tool suchas a pros and cons list
(07:19):
emphasizes the objective.
It's just the facts side ofdecision making.
Intuition or what Goleman terms, direct knowing has captured
the attention of a lot of brainscience researchers, and in one
study the absence of attentivedeliberation or going with your
gut was demonstrated to resultin decisions with better
(07:42):
outcomes than those derived fromthe use of analytical tools
like a pros and cons list.
Oftentimes in the back of ourminds, we've already made a
decision, so the list we makewill reflect that.
If we subconsciously don't wantto make that choice, then there
will be more cons than pros.
(08:02):
And maybe this is fine and youjust needed something to make
you feel better about yourdecision.
I don't see a huge problem withthat, as long as you aren't
deciding not to go or dosomething because of some
lingering fear orapprehensiveness about making a
big change.
Another con to a pros and conslist is that some of the things
(08:23):
need to be weighed differently,which we've mentioned a little
bit earlier.
There may be more items on thecons list, but the things from
the pros list may hold moreweight.
At the end of the day, is theconvenience of a commute to work
more important than the workitself?
I would argue that it isn't.
So, like we said earlier, weigheach item on your list, maybe
(08:46):
give them an actual number.
For example, for pros, youcould give them a number between
0 and 20.
And for cons you could donegative 0 to 20, or however you
prefer to handle that.
That way, when you add themeverything together, at the end
you'll kind of get a positivenumber or a negative number.
If you get a positive number,you know that the pros win.
If you get a negative number,you know, that the cons win
(09:12):
Ultimately.
For the vast majority ofdecisions that a person deems to
be critical, a pros and conslist is useful only as a very
high-level preliminary thinkingaid.
When the stakes are high, thepotential interference of
cognitive biases, wishfulthinking, self-limiting beliefs
and similar barriers toobjectivity start to rise.
High-stakes decisions thereforerequire approaches that address
(09:35):
these complications.
Self-awareness, reflection andactively applying a range of
mindsets are examples ofalternatives to the pros and
cons list that shed light onthese hidden, unconscious
cognitive biases, ultimatelyleading to better insights and
better decision outcomes.
Basically, it's okay to use apros and cons list as long as
(09:57):
you're also aware of your ownbiases.
At the end of the day, we canonly make the next best decision
in our lives.
We can't predict the future orhow things will go, even when we
pick apart every singlepotential pro and con.
Sometimes you just have to makea choice with the information
that you have to the best ofyour ability and handle whatever
results from that choice, alsoto the best of your ability.
(10:20):
But let's talk a little aboutwhat I mentioned earlier in this
episode.
Do you remember that?
The absolutely gutting feelingof leaving something that you
love to take a risk and trysomething new.
Yeah, that feeling basicallysucks.
My recommendation for dealingwith it is to allow yourself to
feel that grief, the comfort andcare that you had found in that
(10:42):
role community or home andmaking a choice to leave it
behind can be so confusing andtruly painful.
But try to keep things inperspective.
Remember why you're moving on,remember that there are
opportunities ahead of you thatwill open new doors and new
opportunities, and also rememberthat you can make whatever
(11:02):
choices you want to in life.
If it doesn't work to leave,you can come back Maybe not to
the exact circumstances, but youcan always come home or return
to a community that you loved.
But don't hold yourself backbecause you're comfortable,
especially if you're at thestart or the middle of your
career.
Empower yourself to take risksnow rather than forcing yourself
(11:24):
to live in the same placeforever without embracing
opportunities.
When you do leave yourcommunity or familiarity.
Make a plan for how you willstay engaged with the things
that you love, your community orfamiliarity.
Make a plan for how you willstay engaged with the things
that you love.
Seek out the hobbies you enjoyor the places that will feel
familiar, even if they aren'texactly the same, Build a new
community and broaden yourhorizons.
It's hard at first, of course,and there still may be an ache
(11:49):
for a while after, but try toembrace change, learn as much as
you can and make the bestdecisions that you can without
being too hard on yourself.
I don't know if any of youwatched Frozen 2, but I
absolutely loved the song NextRight Thing when I watched it,
and that saying is a perfectexample here.
Do the next right thing thatyou can do with what you know.
(12:13):
After that, keep doing the nextright thing.
At the end of the day, we'reall just doing our best, and any
pitfalls that may come fromthat can be managed.
If we fell apart every time wefaced a new challenge or a new
unknown, we would never make it.
In such an uncertain world anda reality that we're all living
in currently, the best you cando is build your ability and
(12:38):
capacity to adapt and move withthe changes that happen around
you.
This way, you can takeadvantage of opportunities,
knowing that you can handlewhatever comes next, because
you've built your resilience,community and self-care skills
to be able to do it.
I hope today's episode washelpful for you all.
Have the great rest of yourweek and enjoy the nice weather
(13:01):
we're having.
That concludes this week'sepisode.
And remember, it's not selfish,it's self-care.
Welcome to the Self-Care Society podcast with
your hosts Celia Williamson,ashley Kuchar, louie Guardiola
and Keri Shaw, a podcast devotedto those whose job it is to
help others get or remainmentally, physically and
emotionally healthy, but whoalso need to take care of
themselves.
And how we're going to do this?
(00:22):
By first showing you thefiltered, pretty version of
success, and then the realstruggles, real work and raw
grit it took to get there, howthey took care of themselves and
also achieved their goals whiledoing it Together.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We will work with you to improve and maintain your
internal health and growth whilehelping you achieve your
external goals and your nextprofessional achievement in life
, and we're excited to show youhow to follow your own
individual and unique path andachieve the dreams you have
while taking good care ofyourself.
So let's get started.
Hello and welcome to theself-care podcast.
(01:03):
My name is Isabel Matosian andI will be your host for today's
episode.
Today, we are going to talkabout the power of making lists
again, not really.
We're going to talk about theabsolutely gutting feeling of
moving on to bigger and brighterthings, while also having to
leave behind some reallyfantastic things.
(01:24):
While also having to leavebehind some really fantastic
things.
Moving on can be scary andstressful, and hard and
unpredictable, but perhaps evenmore so, it can be exhilarating
and can lead you to someunexpected places.
The question of the day is howdo you decide that it's time to
move on when the answer is notobvious?
We all know that sometimes itis.
(01:48):
Sometimes it's not worth it tocontinue putting up with being
treated poorly orunderappreciated, or that the
strain of a job isn't benefitingyou anymore but is actually
harming you.
Those are the times when youknow that the risk is worth it
because what you have currentlyis more destructive than helpful
, know that the risk is worth itbecause what you have currently
(02:08):
is more destructive thanhelpful.
But then we have the timeswhere there's no clear,
objective or emotional answer.
There are things you love aboutyour current roles, lifestyle
and experiences, but then otheropportunities may prevent
themselves which would offerincredible growth and future
success, as well as thatexcitement of starting something
new.
You can take the tactic ofasking others what they think
(02:30):
you should do, and that can behelpful to a certain extent,
especially depending on whoyou're asking.
Your best friend may have adifferent point of view than a
co-worker, or they may have adifferent opinion than a family
member who relies on you, orthey may have a different
opinion than a family member whorelies on you.
Someone who relies on you mayunconsciously consider the
(02:53):
benefits of you staying whereyou are so you can continue
helping them.
People are objective to acertain extent, but never
entirely, and that's not a poorreflection on them.
It's just how humans arehardwired.
We feel big emotions and letthose emotions play a role in
our choices, whether we mean toor not.
At the end of the day, the bestperson to make those big,
life-altering decisions for youis you.
(03:14):
This is where that conversationabout lists comes in.
I know we talk about makinglists to set priorities a lot,
but what kind of list do youmake when you need to make a
choice that could reframe yourentire future.
Oftentimes, people start with apros and cons list.
Now, there are pros and cons tomaking a pros and cons list.
(03:34):
This can really apply to anybig choice, but let's assume
that we're talking about thechoice to stay working in your
current city and communityversus taking a great
opportunity in another state,away from your current community
that you've built.
It could also be another city,of course.
This is just to give us somecontext while we discuss how to
(03:56):
make these big choices.
So one pro to the pros and consis the actual activity of
sitting down and listing thegood things and the bad things
about making a big choice.
Making the effort to thinkthrough all possible pros and
cons of a given course of actionand then capturing them in
writing minimizes the likelihoodthat critical factors are going
(04:19):
to be missed.
Assigning weights to each ofthe pros and cons is an
additional exercise thatpromotes deeper thinking and
presumably leads to betterquality decision making.
It can also help you gain somedistance from the emotion behind
your decision-making.
Important decisions are likelyto evoke powerful emotions.
(04:40):
Going through the steps ofcreating a pros and cons list
can create what researchersAslam Aydouk and Ethan Cross
refer to as a self-distanceperspective, which is where the
decision is viewed as anexternal problem to be addressed
and that eases the impact ofthe emotions surrounding the
decision.
(05:00):
Deferring the decision pendingthe pro-con analysis can also
provide a gap in time where thepowerful emotions can dissipate.
This reduces the risk of anamygdala hijack.
This is the cognitivephenomenon popularized by Daniel
Goleman, in which perceivedemotional threats can lead to
(05:23):
extreme actions, often withundesirable outcomes.
The most compelling pro of all,the pros and cons list, is
generally a well-understood tool.
It requires no specialcomputational or analytical
(05:47):
expertise and is just kind ofsimple to administer.
As for the cons, a pros andcons list can be vulnerable to
cognitive biases.
These are common patterns ofthinking that have been
demonstrated to lead to errorsin judgment and poor decision
making.
Unfortunately, the samesimplicity that makes the pros
and cons list so appealing cancreate many opportunities for a
ton of cognitive biases toemerge.
(06:09):
So one such bias is the framingeffect.
Pros and cons lists generallyare about evaluating two
alternatives, which is kind of athumbs up or a thumbs down
scenario, and an example ofnarrow framing, which is a bias
created by overly constrainingthe set of possible outcomes.
Then there is theoverconfidence effect, which is
(06:35):
a well-established cognitivebias.
This is the tendency ofindividuals to overestimate the
reliability of their judgments.
When creating a pros and conslist, it's likely that many
(06:55):
people assume a level ofaccuracy in their assessment of
pros and cons which really justisn't there.
And then we have the illusionof control when faced with the
task of envisioning possibleoutcomes.
A common bias is to believethat one can control the
outcomes that in reality are notcontrollable.
Besides these cognitive biases,there is also a reliance on
analytical thinking.
Using an analytical tool suchas a pros and cons list
(07:19):
emphasizes the objective.
It's just the facts side ofdecision making.
Intuition or what Goleman terms, direct knowing has captured
the attention of a lot of brainscience researchers, and in one
study the absence of attentivedeliberation or going with your
gut was demonstrated to resultin decisions with better
(07:42):
outcomes than those derived fromthe use of analytical tools
like a pros and cons list.
Oftentimes in the back of ourminds, we've already made a
decision, so the list we makewill reflect that.
If we subconsciously don't wantto make that choice, then there
will be more cons than pros.
(08:02):
And maybe this is fine and youjust needed something to make
you feel better about yourdecision.
I don't see a huge problem withthat, as long as you aren't
deciding not to go or dosomething because of some
lingering fear orapprehensiveness about making a
big change.
Another con to a pros and conslist is that some of the things
(08:23):
need to be weighed differently,which we've mentioned a little
bit earlier.
There may be more items on thecons list, but the things from
the pros list may hold moreweight.
At the end of the day, is theconvenience of a commute to work
more important than the workitself?
I would argue that it isn't.
So, like we said earlier, weigheach item on your list, maybe
(08:46):
give them an actual number.
For example, for pros, youcould give them a number between
0 and 20.
And for cons you could donegative 0 to 20, or however you
prefer to handle that.
That way, when you add themeverything together, at the end
you'll kind of get a positivenumber or a negative number.
If you get a positive number,you know that the pros win.
If you get a negative number,you know, that the cons win
(09:12):
Ultimately.
For the vast majority ofdecisions that a person deems to
be critical, a pros and conslist is useful only as a very
high-level preliminary thinkingaid.
When the stakes are high, thepotential interference of
cognitive biases, wishfulthinking, self-limiting beliefs
and similar barriers toobjectivity start to rise.
High-stakes decisions thereforerequire approaches that address
(09:35):
these complications.
Self-awareness, reflection andactively applying a range of
mindsets are examples ofalternatives to the pros and
cons list that shed light onthese hidden, unconscious
cognitive biases, ultimatelyleading to better insights and
better decision outcomes.
Basically, it's okay to use apros and cons list as long as
(09:57):
you're also aware of your ownbiases.
At the end of the day, we canonly make the next best decision
in our lives.
We can't predict the future orhow things will go, even when we
pick apart every singlepotential pro and con.
Sometimes you just have to makea choice with the information
that you have to the best ofyour ability and handle whatever
results from that choice, alsoto the best of your ability.
(10:20):
But let's talk a little aboutwhat I mentioned earlier in this
episode.
Do you remember that?
The absolutely gutting feelingof leaving something that you
love to take a risk and trysomething new.
Yeah, that feeling basicallysucks.
My recommendation for dealingwith it is to allow yourself to
feel that grief, the comfort andcare that you had found in that
(10:42):
role community or home andmaking a choice to leave it
behind can be so confusing andtruly painful.
But try to keep things inperspective.
Remember why you're moving on,remember that there are
opportunities ahead of you thatwill open new doors and new
opportunities, and also rememberthat you can make whatever
(11:02):
choices you want to in life.
If it doesn't work to leave,you can come back Maybe not to
the exact circumstances, but youcan always come home or return
to a community that you loved.
But don't hold yourself backbecause you're comfortable,
especially if you're at thestart or the middle of your
career.
Empower yourself to take risksnow rather than forcing yourself
(11:24):
to live in the same placeforever without embracing
opportunities.
When you do leave yourcommunity or familiarity.
Make a plan for how you willstay engaged with the things
that you love, your community orfamiliarity.
Make a plan for how you willstay engaged with the things
that you love.
Seek out the hobbies you enjoyor the places that will feel
familiar, even if they aren'texactly the same, Build a new
community and broaden yourhorizons.
It's hard at first, of course,and there still may be an ache
(11:49):
for a while after, but try toembrace change, learn as much as
you can and make the bestdecisions that you can without
being too hard on yourself.
I don't know if any of youwatched Frozen 2, but I
absolutely loved the song NextRight Thing when I watched it,
and that saying is a perfectexample here.
Do the next right thing thatyou can do with what you know.
(12:13):
After that, keep doing the nextright thing.
At the end of the day, we'reall just doing our best, and any
pitfalls that may come fromthat can be managed.
If we fell apart every time wefaced a new challenge or a new
unknown, we would never make it.
In such an uncertain world anda reality that we're all living
in currently, the best you cando is build your ability and
(12:38):
capacity to adapt and move withthe changes that happen around
you.
This way, you can takeadvantage of opportunities,
knowing that you can handlewhatever comes next, because
you've built your resilience,community and self-care skills
to be able to do it.
I hope today's episode washelpful for you all.
Have the great rest of yourweek and enjoy the nice weather
(13:01):
we're having.
That concludes this week'sepisode.
And remember, it's not selfish,it's self-care.
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