110: Asger Leth | Beyond the 9 to 5 – Finding Freedom & Creating a Space for Deep Conversations & Real Connections - Self Directed

Episode Transcript
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Jesper Conrad (00:00):
A little coffee is a good place to start.

Asger Leth (00:02):
Without coffee.
I'm no good man.

Today we are together with Asker Lett.
First of all, asker, a verywarm welcome.
It's good to meet you.

Asger Leth (00:12):
Thank you very much.
I'm happy to be here.
I mean, I'm in my apartment,but I'm with you somewhere.
I have no idea where you areand eventually you'll tell me,
but I'm happy to be wherever youare.

Yeah, but I'm happy to be wherever you are.
Yeah, yes, so right now we arein south of France because we,
as I think I mentioned in one ofafter.
Because, because why we are insouth of France?
Oh yeah, that's we wanted aplace to chill for a month where
we saw the sun, had sunlight inthe right angle.

(00:43):
And also because we wanted aplace to go deeper, be more
focused for a month.
Because, as we are nomads andhave been now traveling since
2018, sometimes it's a lot ofpeople, a lot of meetings and
the joy of going deep andworking on projects is often put

(01:05):
to the side because there's newwonderful people to talk to.
And then you can say well thenin the podcast, we combine it,
we make a project which is funto make and we talk with new
wonderful people like you.

Asger Leth (01:18):
Great.
Did you say you pulled the plugin 2018?
Yes, wow, you guys are ahead ofthe curve man.
That's crazy, yeah.

Cecilie Conrad (01:28):
Actually, we bought a big red bus, a veteran
bus, and converted it into aliving space and drove off, and
that was just our seventhanniversary.
We bought it on Valentine's Day.
We don't celebrate Valentine'sDay.

Asger Leth (01:44):
Oh, amazing.

We realized two years later oh, we bought it on
Valentine's Day.
We don't celebrate Valentine'sDay.
Oh, amazing.
We realized two years later oh,we bought it on Valentine's Day
.
So now it's kind of ourValentine's thing that we bought
a big red bus.
We sold it again.
We don't own it any longer.

As we say when people are like oh, you bought a
big red bus, converted it likea school bus.
Wasn't it amazing?
And I'm just like imaginetrying to drive down to the
local supermarket in it or tothe beach.
It's beautiful, but stupid, no,no.
But I wanted to put the focuson you.

(02:16):
So the reason I wanted to talkwith you is that you I saw in my
feed on the wonderful socialmedia, uh, one day that you were
in the process of creating aplace, and the way you described
that place I was like, Ooh,that could be interesting to go

(02:37):
and be a part of, give a talk orsomething.
But yeah, it just dawned on me.
I want to talk, to ask aboutwhy he's creating this place.
What is it about?
Making room for people and fortalks and dialogue?
What happened that made youmake Lakehouse?

Asger Leth (02:56):
Yeah, what happened?
I keep asking myself every daywhat the hell happened.
Well, you know, it's actuallyvery related to the overall just
what we just started to talkabout, the unplugging and in
plugging and replugging and allthis stuff, because I, you know,
I spent many years livingabroad, so my journey has sort

(03:17):
of been reverse in a way, like Ilived for many years in New
York, many years in Los Angeles,I lived a little bit in Mexico
City and in Berlin.
Basically, I've been around.
I'm a restless person.
I guess a lot of the peoplethat you talk to are people who

(03:38):
are needing to unplug for somereason, to reroute, to find
themselves, to let go of chainsof normal life.
I don't know what.
There's a million reasons that.
I guess you will have to hearall of your podcast episodes to
understand why people do whatyou guys do.
In my personal experience, I'musually a very restless person.

(03:59):
I need to experience the world.
I need to meet people fromforeign places, from faraway
places.
I need to be out there.
I don't like to go on holidays,but I like to be away in
foreign countries and work, forinstance.
I prefer that.
I like to be ingrained in othersocieties and ingrained in

(04:20):
other cultures.
I like to be stimulated likethat, so where I can take
something and give something, Iguess that's the core of who I
am.
So when I decided to move backto Denmark, I actually decided a
reverse trip.
Right, I decided to move backto Denmark because I have a son

(04:42):
who turned 13.
And I was like God damn, youknow, I've been away for so many
years and before you scold mefor this, I have to tell you
that he's born in New York andit's a different kind of
scenario than normal.
It's not like I ran away frommy wife and kids or anything.

(05:02):
He was born like the child ofnomads, so he was born in New
York.
Now he happens to live inDenmark, and so while I was
living in the States, him andhis mom moved to Denmark at some
point and I would travel backand forth and at a certain time,
when he became a teenager, Ithought, hmm, a teenage boy
needs really, you know, this isdangerous, these are dangerous

(05:24):
days.
I should move to Denmark.
So I did and, as per usual, Igot very, very quickly, very
restless.
I felt the constant desire thatI've always felt, like I've
never been able to stay inDenmark for more than like three

(05:45):
weeks before.
This immense desire to leavewould overwhelm me.

I can so relate.
Yeah, we were just in Denmark.
I think we were planning oh myGod, we were planning to stay I
don't know how, for how long,and we drove up through Germany,
through Jutland, over thebridges, and before we even
crossed the Great Bridge, toZeeland.
I was like we have to put thisin reverse again.

Asger Leth (06:10):
Yeah, totally, I understand.
Look, I really I have to saythis I really really love
Denmark.
I used to tell people Iconsider Copenhagen one of the
most beautiful cities on Earth,but for a short period of time
and in the summer, and I thinkit's become a more and more

(06:30):
livable city.
It's become like a microscopic,a micro-metropolis in a way.
So there's many things good tosay about the place, but it's
still.
I know you have listeners fromall over the world For you guys
who don't know Denmark.
I know you have listeners fromall over the world For you guys
who don't know Denmark.
You also have to explain thatwe live in the most rule-based

(06:51):
society on earth, apart fromSweden, perhaps and so
everything is very strict andwithin a confined box.
So it's very easy, if you havethis kind of desire, nomadic
experience, like this gene, toexperience different stuff, that
you feel very boxed in, youfeel very contained, you feel
like this is a similarexperience.

(07:13):
Everybody understands this.
Who've tried this?
Like you move back, you go backto denmark and slowly the
ceiling moves down, down, down,starts crunching in your head
and the walls start moving infrom the sides and you have to
run away.
Yes, so that's the curse right.
We are just some people whohave a blessing and a curse
right.
So, anyway, I decided I had tobe here.

(07:35):
So I came back, I got into thisrestless stuff and, instead of
doing what I usually do, whichwould be to immediately find a
project to do somewhere in theworld, I knew I had to stick it
out.
This time.
I had to find something to rootme, basically.

(07:59):
So I didn't plan.
I was searching for it in mymind but couldn't find it.
Basically, it's outside of my.
It was outside of my realm of,or my, my list of possibilities.
That was just beyond myimagination.
To do something as fixed asfinding I.
I didn't know how to hack it.
Let me put it this way I didnot know how to hack staying

(08:20):
here and feel rooted in a goodway while still having a
perspective on the world, if youknow what I mean.

Oh yes.

Asger Leth (08:29):
Yeah.
So I was going to I mean, I hada mini depression and
psychotherapy and this, that andthe other thing.
You can just imagine all thisstuff.
And one day I was going for acup of coffee just down the
street and there was this weirddoor that was always I always

(08:50):
pass this door.
It didn't have any windows init, so it was like a big gate in
a building and I was wonderingwhat the hell is in there.
And then one day I was justgoing for a cup of coffee and
the door was open and I lookedin and I was like, so I'm so
curious.
You know, like that is part ofmy, my way of being so I had to
open the door and stick mylittle nose in and like I saw

(09:11):
these people packing and I waslike, well, hey guys, so what's,
what's going on?
What's in here?
They're like well, well, youknow, we've had this in school
or something and and we have tomove.
We moving in another place notso far away, and I could just
see this room was fantastic.
It was like an old church and Imean it was just the most

(09:33):
amazing room really and I fellin love with it immediately.
I was like, oh, oh, but thenwhat's going to happen here?
And then they were like, well,we don't know, do you want to
take over?
And so were like, well, wedon't know, do you want to take
over?
And so, you know, boom.
So it sort of found me like that, basically, you know, and
immediately I knew that thisspace, this place, physical

(09:54):
place, had somehow a key tofinding my way to live here.
You know, and immediately I sawthat I wanted to do an
international place incopenhagen, a place of people,
to create a sort of community.
Um, at first, to be honest, Iwanted, I thought, what can I?

(10:17):
I'm a filmmaker, I'm a filmdirector and writer by trade, by
that's my work, and I thoughtwhat I should do is make an art
house, cinema and talk venue andthen make a community around
that.
And then, slowly but surely,because of all kinds of things,
when things start in reverse,where you know, when people ask

(10:40):
me these questions, I tell themthe only way to describe the
process of I wanted to do this.
Then it became that and I haveto pivot a few times and make
the whole thing adjusted and Itell them it's because I might
look like I'm changing my mindall the time and in a way, I am
but it's still with the samejourney.

(11:00):
I want to make a community ofsorts and I want to make a
community of sorts and I want tomake a place that is for people
from all over the world.
I know from because of how Ifeel and how I am and living so
many years abroad, that you geta little bit disconnected from
Dames.
It's difficult to have thenormal regular suburban

(11:24):
conversation, to have the normalregular suburban conversation.
So the more you are abroad, themore you're used to expanding
your horizon by meeting peoplefrom all over the world, from
all walks of life, the more youneed that kind of input in your
life.
So I thought well, the goodthing about Denmark, copenhagen,
at this point in time, is thatit has become this mini micro
metropolis.
Point in time is that it hasbecome this mini micro

(11:47):
metropolis.
35 percent of people living inthe city now are actually
foreigners, expats working incopenhagen.
That's a shocking number,especially because danes are
very you know, when we havedinner parties or cultural
events, we speak in danish.
We keep all everybody else out.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I guess you run into that a lot.
I do certainly because I have alot.
I do, certainly because I havea lot of foreign friends.
So when we sit down and I invitepeople to dinner, you know,

(12:09):
then I might have one or twopeople from other countries
joining a dinner and the usualthing for me would be everybody
speaks in English all the time,but for most Danes, you know,
they just slip into Danish, andso it becomes like a place that
pushes the foreigners away andit becomes two groups like the
Danes are for themselves and theexpats are a community.

(12:30):
What I felt I needed to do andI wanted to do was create a
space where the expats werewelcome, first and foremost, and
then we you know, the Daneswill always find the way in.
But I knew from the beginning Iwanted to create a space where
we spoke english and that theprogram online and everything we

(12:50):
do is in english.
And whether I make an art house, cinema or talk venue, or
whether I make a yoga, whatever,or make a culture house like
absolute church which I explainwhat it is in a short time for
those of you who don't know whatit is then everything should be
in English, first and foremost,and then us Danes, because we

(13:14):
all speak, read and writeEnglish fluently, so we can
easily fit in.
It's the other people.
They can't fit into Danish.
I mean, are you kidding?
It's the most crazy language onearth.
So I feel that that was anecessary.
That was immediately clear tome wow, I can.
This is a physical space.
Instead of flying out to therest of the world to find my

(13:36):
community out there as a nomad,I have to bring all the nomads
to me in a physical space.
That's my logic.
Yeah, you see what I mean.
So I was trying to find a wayor format for that to work, and
so I wanted first to do an arthouse, cinema and a talk venue.
I still want to do that in away, but now we will have to fit

(13:58):
into a grander idea that I thenpivoted to slowly and surely,
and that is to turn this spaceinto a place that has many
things.
And I wanted to tell you toyour listeners who don't know
what Absalon is.
Absalon is another similar venuein Copenhagen.
It's also another old church.

(14:20):
An acquaintance of mine hasthat, and he turned it into a
community space.
So there you have yoga andpainting, with jazz music and
community dinners and all kindsof stuff.
And I thought, well, I had atalk with him and he was like,
why don't you just do that?
I mean, why don't you juststart with those things and do

(14:41):
the more complicated stuff later, as it can fit in, but start
with all those things that youcan do already, and so that's
what I'm starting.
I said, okay, great, that'sactually a good idea.
So I'm now creating this sortof community space that has many
things in it, from yoga andbreathwork and pilates and tai

(15:03):
chi like body and soul, to talks, to cultural things, to have
art stuff and all kinds of stuff.
So we're slowly building that.
We opened it two months ago andmy idea is to have a program
that moves from the morning intothe night, that goes sort of
from body to soul to mind tohead, and we started filling up

(15:26):
the program of all the daytimestuff.
That's basically body and soul,which is a lot of the yoga
stuff and breath work and allthat stuff, and slowly and
surely we'll put on talks andwriters and community dinners
and once in a while and stufflike that you know.
So so that's the.

So that's the room I'm trying to create and
that's the reason I'm trying tocreate and that's the reason I'm
trying to go over to exploringit and seeing it this, uh, this
summer, in the search for theworld, for going out there.
What?
What drove you back then whenyou left denmark?
And also, maybe the otherquestion I have in mind is, what

(16:05):
we are fascinated by is and whywe call the podcast
self-directed is people whochoose their own direction in
life, who dare to go outside thebox of going to the standard
nine to five job.
You know you go to school andit's like everything is lined
out in front of you.
What happened in your life, orwere you just not fitting in

(16:28):
since you took another directionand became a film director and
writer?
Um?

Asger Leth (16:33):
yeah, I guess I just didn't fit in and I'm also um
tainted or infected by by, frombirth, my whole family it works
in the creative space.
I mean my father's a filmdirector and writer, my mother
was a film editor and my sisterI have two sisters.

(16:57):
One of them was a really reallygood actress and the other one
is a producer, and my brother isa writer and musician and my
other brother's a painter.
You know, like we're allworking in the creative space.
And when you work in thecreative space it's I mean like
that, I mean really, uh, I meanthat's not inside the box, right

(17:21):
.
So already, from the idea of it, it it's difficult.
So when you grow up in a familylike that, actually the reverse
thing happens.
We all have this, or maybethat's just a cliche, I don't
know, but for the better, whynot just use the cliche?
We always say that people rebelagainst where they come from,

(17:44):
right, and you rebel againstyour parents.
I don't know that that'snecessarily true, but I guess
there's periods of rebellion atleast, and I think it's very
natural in a young age thatthat's where you rebel against
what you come from.
And in my case I actually didthe same thing.
I went to law school.
Can you imagine?
It's the most crazy thing onearth today?
I can't imagine, but I did.

(18:05):
I went to law school for fouryears.
But when you come from thiscreative world you're used to
seeing like in my entirechildhood we were traveling all
over the world.
I was traveling with my, withmy parents, and I was watching
them.
I mean, we were not travelingas tourists, they were working
all over the world.
So it was like a natural thingthat, yeah, the whole world is

(18:29):
your oyster.
The world is there toexperience, to witness, to
describe.
You can meet people.
You can work in differentplaces.
You can meet people.
You can work in differentplaces.
You don't have to follow anormal idea of 9 to 5 and
staying put or doing whateverybody else is doing.

(18:51):
No, you can actually make aliving, you can actually work
and live like that.
So once you understand thatthat's possible, and then you
feel the freedom of that and Inever knew anything else than
that freedom.
So my rebellion was to try andrun away from that and go into
law school, because I wantedsome stricter stuff.

(19:11):
But of course, while I was inlaw school, I was starting to
work as my way of so everythingis reversed for me.
So my way of making money whileat law school, like everybody,
has to have a job.
While they're students, theyeither work in a pizzeria or
delivery or whatever they do.

(19:31):
In my case, I worked on moviesand commercials and all kinds of
different movies, documentaries, short films and all kinds of
stuff.
That was actually my studentjob and that was what I was
trying to run away from.
But it actually became more andmore fun and already pretty
quickly I could make a good,decent living while I was a

(19:52):
student working on movies and soI worked more and more on
movies and film work and readless and less of those books and
eventually, when I was, I wasmissing one exam from the

(20:13):
bachelor and I decided, oh myGod.
I decided like, oh shit, if Itake this bachelor, I was one
year delayed.
That's why I studied four years.
But I was because I'd been sick.
That's another story.
But I was like, oh shit, if Itake this bachelor, I was one
year delayed.
That's why I studied four years.
But I was because I'd been sick.
That's another story.
But I was like, if I finish thisbachelor, then I'm also going
to finish the law school, and ifI finish law school, I'm going

(20:37):
to be making too much money, I'mgoing to be too satisfied, I'm
going to be too set.
I will never, ever, I will never, ever be able to get away from
that again, because I knewmyself also.
So I have this runaway thing ornomadic thing, but I also like
a good life.

(20:57):
So I was just, I just knew, ohmy God, this is going to be such
a trap for me, I'm not going todo that.
So I was like I had to decidethen, and there, do I pursue a
creative life with everythingthat entails?
Who knows if you're going tomake it, if you can make a

(21:19):
living doing that?
That's crazy.
Or do I just finish law schooland then I have a nice set life,
you know?
And I decided to do the crazystuff, which was, of course, to
drop out of law school.
I had good grades, I have totell you.
So it's not like, but it was aclear and important decision.

I remember when we were pulling the plug Well,
it's another long story, wedon't have to do it all right
here but uh, we were talkingabout pulling it for a long time
before we actually did it andwe were what.
There were two main reasons fornot going immediately.
One was that I had just hadcancer and I needed to show up

(22:02):
for checkups all the time, so itwas too risky to leave in the
beginning and the other was thatour oldest daughter was
admitted into a school forwriters, which is very hard to
get into, and she got in as theyoungest person ever.
She was only 16 and we wouldn'tgive a 16 year old and we
couldn't take that option awayfrom her.
So we started studying there.

(22:24):
That gave us some years.
But I remember that feelingthis life is too comfortable and
I share that story very oftenthat we had a beautiful life in
Copenhagen, a really beautifullife.
We had four children, we hadgood money, we lived in a
beautiful place.
The city is amazing, especiallyin summer.
We had good friends.

(22:45):
It's not a bad life, it's justtoo comfortable.
And I felt okay, now I've beenliving in this city, beautiful
city, for 40 years and theplanet is just so big and I get
to get away on vacations.
But what about all the otheroptions?
What about all the other places?
What about all the otheroptions?

(23:06):
What about all the other places?
And I felt it was like a doorclosing that if we didn't leave
soon, we would be trapped atsome point.
The habits would be too strongand we would be.
I don't know it was difficulteven then and we were only what
40 yeah it was uh, yeah sure Ican see that absolutely the
question is, how much?

(23:27):
how much risk can you endure,how much uncertainty can you
carry?
Because if you want thatexplorative, adventurous life,
then there has to be a lot ofunknown, which is not
comfortable.
I picked up the book in thehouse we rented here in Southern
France because it fell to thefloor.

(23:48):
It's actually a private homeAirbnb, which is a rarity these
days.
I picked it up because it wason the floor and the title was
something like happiness is notnecessarily the same as being
comfortable.

Asger Leth (24:05):
No, I agree with that.
I think this is a veryimportant threat that you are
hitting upon here, because whenare you truly happy?
And, when I look back over time, when I'm the most happy, it's
definitely not.
I don't remember myself beinghappy when I'm living the most

(24:31):
normal life at all at any time.
I only remember moments ofhappiness when I'm out there
challenging myself and living anuncertain life, and it's also
also uncertain now I'm trying tobuild something that could
break my neck completely.

(24:52):
I'm risking everything I don'thave.
You know I spent everything Ihave and who knows, I mean it
could all collapse, but I alsoknow from my heart and from my
experience that that I will lookback on this time as a time
when I was truly alive.
You know what I mean and alsothat when, when, hopefully, it

(25:17):
succeeds, that the pride and thejoy of having really risked it
is immense and that's a wholelevel of happiness's unreal.
I mean it's it's like not.
I mean that's an amazingfeeling.
It's the same when you do films.
You know whether, especiallydocumentaries where you, you're

(25:38):
in it, you're in the dirt.
You know like you're this tough.
It's really goddamn hard tomake documentaries for, for
instance, you know it's likeholy shit, but wow, those are
the happiest moments, for sure,of my life.
And it's not like you're notgoing to get rich off

(25:59):
documentaries, for instance.
Now I never as a film director.
When I'm working on that, whenI'm abroad, you know I make good
money and so on, it's like Icould be.
But I don't think that that'sthe recipe for happiness either.
I prefer to risk it.
It's really weird moments ofjust the smell of a foreign

(26:24):
place, the way that the sun hitsor the memory of rain on a
window.
It's like the weirdest stuff.
That's where you have thosemoments of happiness.
They are rarely in a nine tofive, for me at least.
I can't find happiness in thatat all.

Well, I hope a lot of people can, because a lot
of people live that life.
So and I don't know if we getstronger from being judgmental,
but I'm totally with you I mean,I have to stay alive in the
change of things and in theuncertainty and the unknown and

(27:05):
to make up my life, I have tocreate the life we.
We move a lot.
We're staying for a month herenow and we're actually staying
an entire month again inbarcelona, right after southern
france, which for us isradically long time because we
move even faster than that.
We have to recreate what lifeis all the time.

(27:26):
But that makes us, I mean, I'mawake.
When I'm asleep, I experienceall of my moments, whereas days
in our life in cobenhagen a lotof them were the same and they
were nice, but they were thesame and and you sort of fall
asleep there's a zombie elementto it which is interesting.

(27:51):
When you talk about happiness,the Danes are.

They have been voted the most happiest people
for several years.

Asger Leth (28:03):
It's amazing, I don't understand it.

No, but I think it's because we confused the
Danish word for happiness withthe English one.

Asger Leth (28:11):
Yeah, I think so too , but on the other hand, I don't
want to be sounding judgmentaland I also know 100% that
probably most people would betotally unhappy living the life
that I live and most people needa sense of steady and they need

(28:35):
to create the normal familystructure and the normal house
and the normal car and dog andtwo kids and kindergarten and
all that stuff.
I think this is probably themost normal way to live, and I'm
not just talking about as aDane, but as any human being,

(28:56):
going all the way back to beforewe had you mean social
structure like we have.
I mean like it's like the swans.
I'm sitting here looking outover the lakes in Copenhagen.
We have the swans.
They're so beautiful and theyalso mate couples.
Swans live in couples, right,they find a mate.
They live together with thismate for the rest of their lives
.

(29:16):
Nature is so strong.
And what is the nature ofhumanity?
I guess the nature of humanbeings?
That allowed us to grow is alsobecause we are good at being in
a tribe.
We are good at creating thesmall nucleus family male I'm
not going to use the boringhusband and wife, but just male,

(29:40):
female offspring right andprotecting them and making sure
that they get an educationsomehow, protecting them and
making sure that they get aneducation somehow.
I mean now we have schools, buteven before that, that they
would learn the trade or hunt orwhatever from their parents and
we could nurture the familyuntil the kids, the offspring,
were big enough and matureenough and had learned enough to

(30:01):
create their own family.
That's how we were created fromway back when.
That's how we're created fromway back when.
So, in a way, that's it's meand you guys who have some
freakiness to us.
You know, like we might be thefreaks, or maybe there was just
also something from going wayback to when we're almost apes,

(30:23):
where we, yes, we could createthose families.
Yes, we could live in tribes,but the whole tribes back then
were moving around I think so somaybe that's the thing, that
that's also a part of us, andit's just so difficult to unite
those two.

Yeah I once read it and I'm sorry I can't
remember where.
I once read I think it was ananthropological study stating
that in all human cultures therehas been about 15% of

(30:57):
adventurers and rule breakersand people who come up with new
ideas, try things out, dosomething different.
And then you have the 85% ofdoing more conservative and this
can come out so negative.
And I don't mean that because Ican only live a radical life

(31:20):
because there is a norm that Ican be radical against, a norm
that I can be radical against.
I do like that there aremotorways where I can drive my
car, that I don't have to buildthem before I can go somewhere.
I mean, I live within astructure, I just push the
borders of it and I appreciatethat the structure is there.
And so was this study veryappreciative of both elements of

(31:46):
the human spirit, saying wehave the 85% core base of those
who will maintain the buildings,maintain the social structure.
They will plant a new appletree so that there will be
apples for the grandchildren.
And then you have the 15% goingon adventures, trying to create

(32:07):
a new kind of windmill, whowill try to make bread out of a
new sort of grass, who will doall kinds of crazy stuff, and
some of them will succeed andsome of them will fail, and some
of them will go off and nevercome back and you don't know
what happened.

Some of them will die because they eat weird
stuff.
Yes, yes.

But they will drive the change because they
eat weird stuff, yes, yes, butthey will drive the change.
And we can only be a moving,evolving culture because we have
both elements.
We need the stability of the85% and we need the adventurous
mind of the 15%.

Asger Leth (32:40):
Fascinating.
I think that's so true.
I would love to read that bookif you can find it.

Yeah, I'll actually find it now.

Asger Leth (32:46):
I think this is really, really fascinating, also
because it's interesting how wego back to this original
humanity or back to pre-humanyou know, almost ape-like, where
.
I guess this makes a lot ofsense.
What you're saying is that it'shardwired into our tribe as

(33:12):
part of our success mode, likethis is.
The success of the tribe isthat we all take care of parts
of the tribal responsibilities,of parts of the tribal
responsibilities, and that youcould even say and I will say
this especially because maybeyou could say that the core

(33:34):
reasoning for the tribe is tohave progress, prosperous,
plenty of food, good, safeplaces to sleep, et cetera, et
cetera.
And it's up to some people inthe tribe to keep searching for
the next valley, to keepsearching for the next tool.
That makes it a little biteasier to accomplish all that

(33:56):
stuff right, and that'sfascinating.
I mean, and I think probablythat's what we carry with us
that it is still just like, uh,like a, like a like wired into
us somehow.
That's x percentage.
It's just.
Like.
You know, there's a fascinatingbook about sleep.
I don't know if you read thisbig book that was the number one

(34:17):
bestseller of new york town formany years in a row.
Here just recently.
It's called why we sleep.
It's the biggest uh, scientist,scientist dude on sleep science
who pulled together all of thescience, all of the many
experiments and research fromall over the world and put it
together in one book and saidwhy do we sleep?

(34:38):
And he said that, based on hisputting all this stuff together,
that you know we keep sayingwe're A people and B people, but
actually there's at least threeA, b and C.
And the people underestimatefirst of all, that there are
three different types of people,but it's also underestimating

(35:00):
completely how hardwired it is.
So our society thinks that Bpeople can just adjust and be A
people.
No, he says very clearly thatthe science, without a doubt,
states clearly that if you are aB person and you rise late and
you go to sleep late, thenthat's what you are Some people.

(35:22):
But don't mistake this for thislittle abadabai some people
live their entire lives thinkingthey're B people but are really
A people, that or the other wayaround.
So that actually happens.
So when some people sit thereand listen to this and say no,
no, because I changed this,because yeah, because then you
live the wrong life, but ifyou're a real B person, then
nothing can force you to becomean A person.

(35:43):
You're genetically disposed tobe a B person, then nothing can
force you to become an A person.
You're genetically disposed tobe a B person.
They know this because they'vedone so much research, putting
people deep, deep, deep in cavesunderneath where there's no
sound, no light, and they canstay there for months on end.
You can still measure on peoplewhen they think they're

(36:07):
supposed to rise and whenthey're not.
It's hardwired and I guess, in asimilar way, without us knowing
how and why, we got that gene.
I got it, you got it where.
We just need to be the onesthat that risk it and we might
risk, uh, falling off cliffsomewhere.
But we're definitely going intothe next valley and we don't

(36:29):
know if we're going to findbread there or water, but we're
doing it anyway.
And just like back in thetribal monkey stage, if we did
find bread and water, we wouldcome back to the tribe and then
we'd stay there for a littlewhile and then we'd get out
again.

That's exactly what we're doing right, there is
a graffiti artist in Denmark.
It's kind of ugly Ugly graffitiis just like white big letters
on a wall.
But the small sentences theartist use affects me so much
and I will name one of themhere's called in danish

(37:09):
angstminderwertesroutine andtranslated it's anxiety
marinated everyday routines.
I just when I saw that with bigwhite letters on the wall, I
was just laughing my ass off.
I'm like, oh, that's so rough,it's incredible.

But actually it points to a thing I've been
thinking while we've beendiscussing this.
You know, is it hardwired?
Was I just born with a nomadicgene?
And and as I often say, I havethe anarchist gene?
I think I really think I do.
I think I got it from my mom,like don't tell me what to do,

(37:49):
just don't.
I don't like rules maybe um butI was thinking, yes, I think we
are hardwired in many ways and Ithink I I believe this study of
the 85% stability, 15%explorative human spirit divided
into humans, individuals whohave tendencies to live

(38:15):
different kinds of lives.
It makes a lot of sense.
On the other hand, we justspoke to Dennis Nermak about the
price of unfreedom andpseudo-work and the whole
structure of our society as itis today in what we call the

(38:36):
Western world and very much inDenmark.
As you said in the beginning,denmark, for those who are not
Danish, it's a country that'svery structured, very guided by
rules and norms and a lot ofsocial norms.
We keep each other in place.
This structure can push peopleback from being explorative.

(38:57):
It can push, it, can.
It installs fear, because thewhole argument for keeping each
other in place, keeping thingsunder control, doing things the
right way, keeping each other,each other in check, having
rules for how to do things, it's.
It might be wrapped in the ideaof the welfare state, so the
taking care of each other, butit it's based on fear.

Asger Leth (39:20):
Really, what it is is if you don't do this, it will
all fall apart oh, absolutely,yeah, yeah and I think we sorry
you run into that all the time,like people will go oh, you're
like I.
I know that you run into thatfor sure, but whether you hear
it or not, but you feel it thatsome of the people that you know
or run into, or even family andso on, probably thinks you're a

(39:41):
little bit crazy, you know, anduh, and thank God you are.

Our kids have never been to school.
The three youngest, the oldestone, but the three youngest have
never been to school.
The oldest one is 19.
He's not spent even one day inschool.
Fantastic.
And we don't homeschool themeither.

Asger Leth (40:02):
Wow.

So a lot of people think we are very crazy,
that one, we do.

A lot of people think we are very crazy that one
.

We do a lot of magical stuff, and this one
especially, makes people believethat we are completely insane.

Asger Leth (40:19):
For sure, for sure, amazing.

Yeah, but what happens is that then they meet
them and then they relax,because one the really
fascinating thing about childrenwho haven't grown up in this
weird society that a school iswhere you're together with these
24 to 28 people of the same ageuh forced to do things you
don't want to, yeah they, they,they are so grounded in

(40:43):
themselves that that you canjust see a different kind of
person.
It's a very fascinating, um,it's very fascinated to
fascinating to see them and Ican yeah, I actually look them
out the window.
Uh, it's very fascinating tosee them and I I sometimes get
jealous myself of the, the, ofthe deep rudeness they have in

(41:07):
who they are, where I'm stillinsecure on different levels.
Um, absolutely, there's one,one fun thing I wanted to
mention about the wholehomeschooling, unschooling.
If, if you look at it from theside, what, what we do.
Sometimes I need to explain itto people.
Then I use this story where Isay to them if someone invited

(41:31):
me to a party where everyone wasborn in the same geographical
distance and everyone was thesame age as me, born in the same
year, I would be terrified if Iwas there.
It would be a weird party.
I'm not sure I wanted to attendit.
It's a very strange construct,the school, where I mean you're

(41:54):
older than I am and we arehaving a dialogue that wouldn't
happen in a school, and I justfind it fascinating to look at
these things from the side.
Sure, from the side, sure.

Asger Leth (42:06):
I think the idea of schooling is.
I mean, I'm fascinated by thiswhole stuff about education and
also about how we grew, or atleast I mean.
That's, of course, a topic fordiscussion, but you could say
that we grew as a species or wedeveloped a civilization and so

(42:31):
on, and humanity becameprosperous and so on and so on.
Right, I mean longer lifeexpectancy and so on.
So what's it really about?
I mean, it's a healthy lifewith your family and life
expectancy and healthy, not toomany diseases, and so on and so
on.
That's basically what it's allabout, and peace.

(42:52):
But when did that all start andhow did it happen?
I think that's fascinating.
It's not like school, like howmany hundreds of years did that
really exist, I mean.
So when people think you'recrazy, there's the counter
arguments.
Well hello, humanity survivedfor a really really long time

(43:15):
without any organized schools.
And then finally we decided tohave schools.
It's not like we just jumpedstraight down from the trees.
It was a gradual thing.
We just jumped straight downfrom the trees.
It was a gradual thing.
But of course, when people goto school and longer school and
education and medium, long-termeducation, universities and
become scientists, we growexplosively as species.

(43:37):
It's also fascinating whatknowledge can do right.
It's fascinating that we canlearn to combat all these
diseases and so on and so on,but at the same time, at the
same speed, we're also learninghow to destroy the earth and
eventually there's a whole otherargument about curiosity
killing the cat.

(43:57):
Now, I'm still in favor ofeducation and knowledge and so
on.
I'm very much in favor of that.
But I think it's all aboutpossibilities.
So I don't really care how youschool your kids and what kind
of education they got.
As long as you have not andyou're still welcome to do it I

(44:19):
will not judge you.
But for me, I would say that ifthe kids get a sense of life
and can operate in the worldtogether with other human beings
, and that they know that, ifthey feel like they want an
education, that it's possiblefor them to get it and that they

(44:40):
know which way to point.
You know what I mean.
Like, if they all of a suddenwant to become a lawyer one of
them who the fuck knows, like Idid then you know, okay, there's
still ways to do that, you know.
Yeah, you don't have to followthe given system.

I just want to clarify.
They have never been to school.
That doesn't mean they haven'thad an education.

Asger Leth (45:04):
Exactly.

We haven't forced them.
We have not had a homeschoolingsituation where the curriculum
and me teaching by the kitchentable because we believe a lot
in freedom and we do trust theprocess and there is a mix-up in
the mindset of people and andthis is obvious because
everybody goes to school so wehave this idea that basic

(45:29):
education can only happen in aschool setting, because for most
people basic education happensin a school setting.
You don't have themisconception that the basic
education will only happen ifcoerced, because all kids in
school are coerced.
They don't do it voluntarily.
It's pretty boring.
It's a pretty um, artificialsocial setting.

(45:50):
No one would organizethemselves like that
spontaneously, especially notseven-year-olds, um, so we get
that mix up that this is the waywe have to do it, because what
we see is that everybody does itthat way.
But if you let the children beand give back to them those 10
000 hours of their childhood,what will they do with those 10
000 hours?

Asger Leth (46:11):
fascinating I promise you they will not sit
and look at a wall no they willprobably no, totally and they
will learn how to uh, toprobably learn how to read and
write, because it's so easytoday to learn to do math, and
quicker, probably because you'rein these school environments.
You're sitting there, you'redying slowly inside.

(46:32):
Well, when you're using yourskills outside, you have to just
make things work.
Then you make it work.
So that's that was my old man.
He just came back.
No problem, art is a very, sothat's that was my old man.

He just came Welcome, no problem.

Asger Leth (46:55):
The very, very academic all of them.
They're kind of book nerds.

So there is a big difference between not
schooling and not getting aneducation.

Asger Leth (47:08):
Absolutely when I was in school, when I was in the
fourth, third grade, orwhatever.
I don't know how to translatethat to other nation's school
system.

You said your age at the time.

Asger Leth (47:20):
But I was about when I was about 10 or whatever,
like nine years old or whatever,and from then on my parents
would take me out of school somuch it was crazy because they
were traveling all the timeworking.
So the headmaster of the school, he was like, called them in
for a meeting.
It was like, hey, you know thisdoesn't work, you know you

(47:43):
can't have your kids out ofschool all the time.
How are they going to learnanything?
And then my father said to theheadmaster well, I actually
think that my kids and my son isgoing to learn much more by
traveling.
And luckily we had a veryintelligent headmaster.
He actually got it.

(48:04):
So he was like, okay, but Eske,I mean you have made internet.

I mean, what have you learned anything you ended
up doing?
And a movie watched by a lot,of, lot of people.
You have made movies inHollywood and but I have a fun
question around that.
So you are almost an educatedlawyer, yeah, well, yeah, but

(48:32):
have you went to school forlearning some of the film stuff?
Or is that all self-taught orwould you call it?

Asger Leth (48:39):
That's all self-taught.
When I grew up, we had a housein Fredericksburg it was a
suburb of Copenhagen and we hada film company in the house, a
documentary film productionhouse.
My father had it, together witha couple of friends and my

(49:00):
mother, and in the basement wehad our own little almost like a
mini cinema, like a 16millimeter projection room.
The basement we had our ownlittle, uh like almost like a
mini cinema, like a 16millimeter projection room, and
we had an editing table and thewalls were filled with film
ideas and so on and so on.
So it was like, uh, it was afilm school, uh, in a way, and
then we were traveling all thetime.
We were traveling to all kindsof countries shooting

(49:22):
documentaries and, yeah, featurefilms, whatever, and yeah, so
that was just learning, lifelearning.

Yeah, but that is one of the most fascinating
ways to learn.
It's when you have someonethere who can show you the
tricks of the trade.

Asger Leth (49:43):
Yeah, at some point I applied for the Danish film
school, but cause I thoughtbasically I needed um sort of
like.
Not because I thought I couldlearn anything, particularly
there.
I thought I actually had apretty good grasp, but I felt,
like I, that that part of it wasnot the problem.
It was more like I wanted to atthat time have um no it was more

(50:07):
like I wanted to at that timehave um official stamp.
No, it was more like you know,when you, when, when you go into
school, like a film school, acreative school, an art school,
it's also, um, a playground,sandbox, you know, uh, where you
can fuck around and nobody'sgonna judge you.
So but when you're outside,everything you do do it's not a
playground, it's for real.
It's very difficult, especiallyin some countries and some

(50:29):
environments, to do stuff andexperiment without being judged
on your work.
But if you're in a schoolenvironment, especially art
schools, you are expected toexperiment and do crazy shit and
even do shangos and stuff thatyou're not even have a taste for
yourself.
So you're never gonna be juston it.
But if you're outside and everywork you do is a part of your

(50:50):
overall, it's like people aregonna be all he likes horror
movies or he likes Comediancomedies or whatever.
But if you're in a school, youexpect it to experiment with all
these genres and Then you leaveschool and then you're, then
you, then you, you find your,then you're in your own language
, but in school.
So that's the only reason Ifelt that it could be fun and
liberating to be in film school,simply as a sandbox to play

(51:15):
around.

I would personally take another
education in a heartbeat if Ihad the option.
I think voluntary specializededucations for adults are
amazing.

Asger Leth (51:29):
What I vote against is the coercive compulsory
forced schooling of innocentchildren who didn't choose to be
there didn't choose to be there, yeah, so, uh, going back to,
uh, this, this new, and now wehave, because of I mean, I mean

(51:50):
the way we've grown as acivilization now, and technology
now, you were in a positionwhere you can actually go to
university on your, on yourphone yeah you know uh if that's
what you can learn to chop, youknow, and then do something
else to to on your phone or yourcomputer like a podcast or
whatever, to make a living, orthat there's different ways to

(52:11):
do it.
Now you don't have tonecessarily be boxed into a
classroom.

And going back to lake house facilitating people
meeting.
Thank you for for doing that.
I work a lot in my line of work, which is funding.
Our life is helping people withmarketing and stuff, and I'm a
big fan of using a lot of AI tosupport me.

(52:40):
In that sense, and instead ofbeing afraid of AI and the
future, I'm actually believingreal life will be more and more
important for people realdialogues between people.

Asger Leth (52:52):
I agree.
I agree with that 100%.
Yeah, also, in terms of there'sa lot of filmmakers who are
nervous now, and myself includedon some level, but not in a
global scale.
I'm not worried.
I'm more worried about, youknow, when there's ripples.
You know it's difficultsometimes to manage the ripples

(53:16):
because you know entirebusinesses become obsolete
overnight and so on, and peopleyou know I think it's a natural
phenomenon and so on, and peopleyou know it's, I think it's a
natural phenomenon, but it'sjust the ripples are dangerous
feels and I experience dangerousto people in their everyday
life.
You know it can be difficult,but I'm not so worried in terms

(53:39):
of, uh, the global, um, I meanin terms of my work, for
instance, like as a filmmaker,and so on.
I think that, yes, it can bedetrimental to normal filmmakers
or writers could be, but itcould also be that it just will
feed a desire that there will belabels to stuff.

(54:02):
Okay, this is AI movie, this isAI script, this is real movie,
this is AI script, this is real.
There's a desire for real.
I think that the desire forreal grows.
That doesn't mean that youcan't do crazy stuff in AI In
theory.
I mean just in terms of you canalready now do action sequences
entirely in AI that are wilderthan anything you could do on a

(54:26):
shoot.
And it's not about nitpickingand saying I look there, you can
see that it's fake, but I juststill feel that there's that
probably there will be a desireto watch more and more just eye
toeye, real stuff, and we mightend up going to theater, all of

(54:48):
us, but instead of going to themovies.
But actually no, I think therewill still be a desire for
movies.
I think that it would just be adifferent kind of desire.

Our oldest son, who is 19, said to me a few days
ago in a conversation that hebelieves that the whole internet
thing, which is, you know, it'sa thing that came in my
lifetime and and and has growninto something.
It's like breathing air.
You know, you can't, you canhardly function without your

(55:22):
smartphone any longer.
It it's so dependent.
It's just there all the time,like a religion kind of thing,
supporting lots of differentthings and a lot of it is
information.
He said now, with the AI andthe way the internet is

(55:42):
distributing information, hethinks that there is a tipping
point coming and coming soon,where globally we will stop
believing in things we find onthe Internet.

Asger Leth (55:53):
Yeah, I think so too .
I think that's already here.

For me it's there.
It's been there for a while,but it's not globally there.
A lot of people still shareinformation because they read it
somewhere on the internet, butthey don't really you know where
did this information actuallycome from?
Now with the AI.
Where did the AI get it from?
There's no way we can know.

(56:16):
And the interesting thing is,if that tipping point actually
happens and people stopbelieving find it on the
internet, you can't rely on it.
Then we have to start readingbooks again, then we have to
start knowing an expert talkingto real people.

Asger Leth (56:35):
I think that's absolutely possible.
I think that's a natural.
I don't even think it'sfar-fetched, I think it's an
absolute.
I think it's an absolutenecessity and a desire that will
happen automatically, becausethere will be no policing this.
It's impossible to police.
Ai is so good already and willbecome completely impossible

(57:00):
that eventually the only thingyou can trust is the real life
that you see and feel right infront of you, the people you
meet and the people who stand bysomething as a book or as
newspapers, for instance.
Newspapers have had a hard timefor years and are maybe at the
least trustworthy moment in time, but eventually, the idea that
there's newspapers with editorswho have a legal responsibility

(57:24):
to vet the news, it will becomeeventually, very soon, the only
way to trust your news again.

And the editor is the person.

Asger Leth (57:36):
Yes, so trust and responsibility are the two
things that will be the mosthigh in demand, and it goes from
news to reality, to movies, toart, to, I think, for every,
every walk of life, what's realand trustworthy and something
that people vouch for and standby and you can see them right
there and say, yeah, this is mywork, I did this.

(57:58):
You can trust this and you haveto see it physically.
Maybe even you might not evenwe might invent some avenues,
some tunnels through theinternet where you're like, okay
, that stuff in there, I trustthat's.
They only do curated stuff andall the channels that mix um and
allow, uh, fake news and fakestories, uh, to mix with reality

(58:22):
, becomes a place you don't wantto be anymore.

Yeah.

Asger Leth (58:28):
So as a means of transportation.

It must somehow survive the internet.
But but the whole, you just gograb information, go home and
chew on it On the way home fromfrom our expedition yesterday.
Yeah, in the car we werediscussing how big is an
elephant?
It's pretty basic.

(58:50):
It's because our van is prettybig and we were like, is it
bigger or smaller than anelephant?
It was in the context of aconversation and one of the kids
looked it up on the internetand the information he got was
so random internet and theinformation he got was so random

(59:11):
.
There's no way that's thelargest elephant on the planet.
There's no way they can be thatsmall.
There's no way an elephant isthree meters wide.
And it was just funny how.
It's a funny example and how,pulling things up, you use ai a
lot, so you very often shareinformation which is AI
information.
I'm like there's no way I canvalidate this information.
So this destabilization ofinformation harvested from the

(59:33):
internet is coming.
But the internet as a way ofcommunicating.
We're speaking here on Zoom.
People are going to listen ontheir smartphones.
Of course, that's not going tobreak down.

No, no, no.

But the information sharing is going to
have to change yeah, well, holdon, I have to.

Asger Leth (59:50):
I have to point out the fact that there are already
now podcasts with very, very,very, very real people having
conversations with other very,very, very real people in other
countries about stuff like this.
Except it's all fake.
Yeah, you can have twodifferent AI bots talking to
each other Easy.
You can already do that.

Cecilie Conrad (01:00:12):
I've heard a podcast with two AI bots or
maybe it was one bot dividedinto two persons talking about
me, Because a friend of ours whocan do this kind of tech magic.

Asger Leth (01:00:25):
There you go.

Pulled it up.
He just fed the bot, like threeof my blog posts, and then they
started.

Yeah it was.

It was.

You can do it with your voice.
You know which is even scarier?
Yeah, oh yes.

Yeah, so how can we validate?
We don't know, and that's whywe need places like Lakehouse,
where we show up, we can seethis is a person.

Exactly.
That's why I feel so good aboutLakehouse.
It's that it's going to be,that it's in person.
You know, like you're there,you meet people.
I love that.
Yeah, it's right there.

Jesper Conrad (01:00:57):
Yeah, one of the things I enjoy most almost with
our daughter being a publishedauthor is, uh, it's, of course.
I'm a proud parent andeverything and I enjoy reading
her books.
Yes, but it's going to the theday where she's presenting the
book or reading a little from itand all the people having and

(01:01:18):
it sounds fun to say it likethis an excuse to meet up in
real life people.
People are not good at justmeeting up.
They need something to meetaround.

Well, it's already happening.
I can tell you that I'm payingattention because of what I'm
doing right now, and so I go outand I go to like poetry or
whatever readings, and book thisand book that, and it's packed
yeah.

Yeah.

So that fire is already exploding, you know.

Yeah, and it's the talks after the poetry, it's
the talks before the poetryitself is… Absolutely yeah, the
poetry itself is important, butI just love the facilitating of
the meeting between real people,and we should.
We could probably keep on ontalking, but we should find a
place to round up.

(01:02:07):
So I have one question as alead over to a goodbye, which is
so how should people, if theywant to come, movie directors
and writers and all the thingsyou have done, should they go
down the route of becoming alawyer first, or what is your
suggestions for how they shouldgo about it?

No, I have no suggestions at all.
I don't believe in fixed ideas.

Perfect, I love that answer.
And then for people who want toknow more about Lakehouse where
do they find it?
Where do they read about it?

And I can only say, well, we, just we just opened
two, three months ago and slowlyyou will start reading and
writing about it more and moreon different spaces.
But we are sort of opening softwithout going out and talking
too much about ourselves.
But we have a website.
It's at lake uh dash house dotnet.
Perfect, perfect, and we mightchange the address later on.

(01:03:06):
I can tell you the addressalready because I have secured
it.
But we will get a lakehouse inone word, dot DK.
But for now the website isParkway.
I told you.

Perfect, we will put both show notes.

Absolutely.
And then it's time to round upand say thanks a lot for your
time.
It has been wonderful.

Thank you, thank you , bye everybody.

Bye-bye.

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110: Asger Leth | Beyond the 9 to 5 – Finding Freedom & Creating a Space for Deep Conversations & Real Connections

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}110: Asger Leth | Beyond the 9 to 5 – Finding Freedom & Creating a Space for Deep Conversations & Real Connections