Yasmin and Andy left a comfortable life in the UK to join a small off-grid community in the jungles of Belize.
Fifteen years after cycling through Central America, Yasmin and Andy returned—this time with three kids and a desire for a different kind of life. What began as a plan to visit intentional communities in Europe shifted during the pandemic, eventually landing them in a small permaculture community in Belize.
They describe the emotional and practical steps behind leaving the UK, the grief of letting go, and the clarity that comes from recognizing how little time we have. Loneliness in early parenthood, especially within the isolation of the nuclear family, sparked a deeper search for connection. Now, they live alongside five other families where support is built into everyday life.
This isn’t a story about escaping—it’s about building. From self-directed education to shared celebrations and infrastructure, Yasmin and Andy reflect on what it takes to live more freely and cooperatively.
To learn more about Yasmin, Andy, and Sattvā Land or plan a visit, check the links below.
🔗 Learn more about Yasmin, Andy and SattvaLand
- https://www.instagram.com/sattvaland
- https://www.instagram.com/sattvalearning
- https://www.instagram.com/thefreewheelingfive
- https://www.sattvaland.com
- https://www.sattvaland.com/togetherfamilyretreat
- https://www.youtube.com/@thefreewheelingfive7447
🗓️ Recorded April 5th, 2025. 📍 Somewhere in France, on a highway heading towards Monaco
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jesper Conrad (00:00):
Today we're together with Jasmine and Andy.
I found you two on Instagramand I read the small bio and I
was like, oh, I want to talkwith them.
But first of all, welcome.
It's super great to see you.
So, jasmine and Andy, I think Iwould like to start with a talk
(00:25):
about freedom because for thepeople watching, they will look
at the video and say that lookshot, it looks nice, it looks
green and rich in nature.
Where are you right now?
Andy (00:40):
Now we're in Belize, so this is our home.
We've been here for about threeyears and living where we are
now for about two years.
Jesper Conrad (00:50):
So to turn that into a talk about freedom?
Jasmine, you're originally fromSweden, andy, you're from UK.
What happened in your life thatled you down a path where
Sweden wasn't good enough, ukwasn't good enough, and I'm
searching for a deeper answerthan just the weather.
(01:11):
Maybe it is.
Andy (01:17):
Well, we enjoyed our life in the UK.
We'd been living there forabout 10 years.
We had a nice house and friendsand we didn't leave because we
didn't like it there, butfreedom was definitely part of
the answer.
We've been looking at making achange, we've been looking at
other ways of living, and Belizewasn't the first place that
came up in our search we.
Yasmin (01:39):
Actually this was before , just before COVID.
So I was working at analternative school called Inwood
Small School and our oldest son, tio, was also a student there
and we thought we would dosomething like this when he hits
the age of you know, the end ofthe school years there, which
(02:00):
he would have been 11.
But then things changed,management changed and so
finished there, and then thatwas pretty much exactly on the
day COVID hit as well.
So the plan was actually totravel down Europe in our van
that we had converted and wewere going to travel down to
(02:22):
Europe and visit differentintentional communities,
communities because that's whatwe knew we wanted and what we've
been sort of looking for andfeeling a longing and a tug for
for a long time.
Actually, ever since Tierra, ourfirst one, was born.
We could feel the sort ofstrange loneliness of being in a
(02:44):
you know, this little familyunit in a separate house in a
lovely village in England,beautiful and wonderful in many
ways.
But we just particularly I hadthat strong feeling that why are
we doing this on our own?
Why are we not doing thistogether?
And I remember that verystrongly and it's just been
(03:04):
following me ever since and Ithink, the more the children
grew and we had Viggo, oursecond, and eventually Evan, our
third, yeah, that tug justbecame stronger, I would say.
And Europe was our first ideabecause it would be less far
away from friends, good friendsand family and made a lot of
(03:27):
sense.
But then, because COVID hit,that traveling, of course, was
very limited, very restrictedand at the time we didn't know
is this going to last for daysor weeks or years, and I think
it was very much a case of theobstacle is the path right?
We really felt that.
(03:48):
So this idea of travelingaround communities and learning
from them, maybe find the rightcommunity for us, or starting
our own, that wasn't going towork.
In Europe, we felt, yeah, Iguess there was a freedom aspect
to that as well.
Andy (04:02):
In terms of that felt pretty limited at the time.
In Europe I work online.
There's going to be somerestrictions around that in
European countries and there'sdefinitely fewer restrictions
around that in Belize.
So in those sort of practicalelements there was some freedom
aspects there as well.
Yasmin (04:17):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (04:21):
So from the plan of traveling in a van in Europe
to Belize.
Was that random?
Yasmin (04:31):
That's a really good question, actually.
So one of our families at ourold school in Woods is a British
American family.
Well, they told us we kept intouch and they told us, well,
we're going to Belize.
Well, they told us we kept intouch and they told us, well,
we're going to Belize.
And we were like, oh, belize,we love Belize because we
traveled here 15 years ago.
Actually, we cycled from Mexicoto Panama, maybe two thirds on
(05:01):
bike and then the rest sometimeson a bus or on top of a truck
or you know something like that,but roughly.
we actually cycled past here onthe on the hummingbird highway
where we are now 15 and it'salmost, probably nearly 16 years
ago now, and so it just sparkedsomething in us, and actually
particularly in you.
Andy (05:15):
You weren't quite as keen on europe as you were yeah, and
when we started discussingbelize I remember I loved it and
I even remember when we werehere a long time ago thinking
wouldn't it be amazing to livehere, build a house in that
jungle there and be a part ofthat amazing nature and live?
Cecilie Conrad (05:33):
in it.
Here we are now yeah.
Yeah, it's funny, huh Thingsyou think wouldn't that be great
, do you have sometimes that Ifeel?
Sometimes I find myself in asituation like that and I forgot
I dreamt about it.
So I'm in the situation.
(05:53):
I'm like, oh yeah, that was thething I thought back then would
be so great.
And now, now, here I am.
It's as if you have to have thedream, have the idea, think
about it for a while, forget itand then suddenly, whoop, there
you go, yeah.
Andy (06:12):
It was definitely a catalyst in both, I guess, a
practical way and a mental wayof pushing you into another.
This is happening now.
Okay, this is the reality ofthe world.
And what do we want to do inthat reality?
Jesper Conrad (06:27):
it just it really fast, like not not being a part
of it go to a different reality.
Yeah, do you?
I imagine sometimes when youtalk with people they're like,
oh, living in belize, that mustbe a dream life, and in many
ways I'm also sure it is.
Sometimes we've.
(06:49):
We as a family have now beenfull-time traveling for six and
a half years.
Sometimes I'm just, you know,tired or annoyed, and then this
morning I looked around me andwas like, oh, but you're in this
awesome village in in theAndorras and you have all this
(07:10):
freedom you have created.
How about being grateful andI'm saying it as I actually
sometimes need to re-remind meof what we have accomplished, of
being grateful of it, becauseotherwise that everyday bug of
normalcy can like sneak in andjust make me forget how great
(07:30):
life is.
Do you have that feeling ever,if everything's still just
wonderful every day?
Yasmin (07:38):
no, I totally agree and hear what you say for sure.
I mean, life is always going tobe life with children and the
chaos of the world.
All of these things are, ofcourse, a reality for us as well
, and sometimes it can even be abit harder, in a way, when you
do something so different and somaybe you're removed from your
(08:03):
close family and friends thatyou grew up with, and then a new
environment that you have tolearn to navigate.
That so it's always.
It can be harder, it's complex,isn't it?
I can imagine it's the same foryou guys, but yeah, it's
definitely both.
It's almost like life somehowintensifies.
It becomes so amazing and soincredible, like a dream in many
(08:27):
ways, and then it's also theshadow sides are also rising and
that you have to face more aswell.
It's like everything is alittle bit more intense.
That's how I experience it.
Andy (08:38):
I agree that I mean the intense of everything the
surroundings, the nature, theheat is intense or the rain is
intense yeah but then you stillhave your normal everyday life
and everybody's emotions andneeds and everything is the same
as it is in the UK, but you'vetransplanted it here into a
different place.
You have certainly more freedomto do, to do different things,
but still the same things arisewithin you and I totally agree
(09:02):
with that, with that gratitudeaspect and, you know,
recognizing that I wake up earlyin the morning and start work.
I start work at 5 o'clock.
It's pretty early, I have toget out of bed, but then I can
come and sit here and absorb abeautiful nature and be calm and
relaxed and be grateful for theopportunity to do what we're
(09:24):
doing.
Jesper Conrad (09:25):
Yeah, jasmine mentioned something and be calm
and relaxed and be grateful forthe opportunity to do what we're
doing.
Yeah, jasmine mentionedsomething earlier where, just
like in a passing sentence and Iwas like what did she say?
Which was, oh, when we were onbicycles here 15 years ago, that
sounds like an epic adventurein itself.
What happened and why did youdecide to go on this adventure
(09:47):
back then?
Andy (09:50):
So it was on bicycles, yeah.
So I think we were entirelysure how it came about really.
But we wanted to do something.
We wanted to take some time.
It was just the two of usbefore children.
We wanted to do some time.
It was just the two of usbefore children.
We wanted to do some, do sometraveling together.
And the reason we chose CentralAmerica is because it's not that
big and we thought we could, wecould cycle.
(10:11):
You know, if you choose SouthAmerica, that's a long way to go
.
Central America is not so big.
We can see quite a lot ofcountries in a in a relatively
short space.
And we're cycling.
We never done anything likethat before.
We weren't keen cyclists.
We had to buy everything, uh,plan a route and then just go,
and it was.
It was fantastic, amazing, yeah, and you've probably
(10:33):
experienced some of that in inthe van as well.
But you know, when you'recycling, you're forced to go
through every type ofenvironment, every village and
town, and you have to stay inthese places and you see a
country in a different way thanif you're travelling through on
the bus or a motorised vehicle.
And we had an amazing time inBelize and I think one of the
(10:56):
reasons was we had a commonlanguage.
We didn't speak still don'tspeak Spanish, but we had the
English to be able tocommunicate with all the local
people, that people live hereand have that, you know
possibility to have deeperconversation with people and
understand more of the more thepeople in the environment.
Yasmin (11:15):
Yeah, and I remember I had just finished.
I was kind of a mature student,I had finished teacher training
in sweden and we wanted to dosomething after that and you,
you finished your work.
So we just used some saved upmoney and wanted to do something
.
We knew that we probablywouldn't have that kind of
freedom again, so we wanted tomake the most of it.
Cecilie Conrad (11:39):
I think essentially yeah, and, and here
you are with the same freedomlater on in life it's a
different freedom it's adifferent freedom, yeah our
children just proposed that weshould go on bikes from paris to
barcelona this summer wow okay,that's awesome, they did yeah
(12:01):
well one of them, proposed thatthe others didn't say no.
Jesper Conrad (12:04):
No, okay, yeah, but that's that sounds like an
adventure, yeah.
Yasmin (12:09):
I love the sound of that .
Cecilie Conrad (12:11):
Yeah.
You should do it Totally.
The only thing is the logistics, because we live in the van, so
who's moving in?
I kind of have to figure thatpart out.
I was thinking, yes, we wantedto talk about freedom, but then
you started talking aboutsomething more interesting,
which is community, and theobvious question is did you find
(12:33):
it then in Belize?
Yasmin (12:36):
I think we found a community.
I mean there are manycommunities and many different
types of communities.
There are local communities ofpeople who grew up here and have
lived here for generations andgenerations and generations.
And then what we found here wasa small, beautiful community of
foreigners.
(12:56):
Actually an Italian family whocame here it's about 11 years
ago, so roughly, and theystarted this permaculture farm
here and they had volunteers inthe beginning and it was very
basic, very rustic, very simpleliving, and then eventually
(13:18):
became a retreat center as well.
So they developed reallybeautiful buildings and their
own homes and now it's mainlythat maybe a retreat center with
um, you know, airbnb kind ofaccommodation as well so we were
, um, it was.
Andy (13:40):
It was definitely something that was, it was a
primary factor in, in it wasdefinitely something that was a
primary factor in making thedecision to move to another
place.
Was that community, in a caseyou could call an intentional
community or community of peopleliving close together with
common ideals, that type ofthing?
(14:00):
So we didn't know what we wouldfind.
And we were looking around andwe looked at land and we, you
know, stood on a hill in the topof the jungle looking at this
amazing countryside and, uh, youknow, with 20, 30 acres for
reasonable price, but thinking,you know, we could build a
community here, but you knowwhat, what's the outlay for that
(14:22):
in terms of time and you knoweffort, it's going to be a huge
undertaking.
So do we want to do that?
And then the other, the otherthing that we found was some of
this sort of community, a smallcommunity already here and
looking to grow.
So our choice was to join thatcommunity.
It's been, it's been wonderful,yeah, for two years now.
(14:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's been wonderful.
We've been there for two yearsnow.
Yasmin (14:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's been a bit, I think.
Jesper Conrad (14:49):
Yeah, we started out our life together when we
were 29, lots of kids, and itwas along the can you say normal
path of Cecilia is educated asa psychologist, I'm self-taught
(15:09):
but working marketing and on theonline digital world, and I had
a career path and she stood infront of going down her road and
we bought a house and got a dogand all these normal things and
we lived on the street with alot of houses and you of course
(15:29):
see the neighbors, but it's notthe same as seeing or being
together with the neighbors.
And I am trying to figure outhow I can explain what I mean
about my dislike of the nuclearfamily as a concept.
I think there's somethingreally wild about these people
(15:54):
living in these small unitsalone without connection to
their neighbor or theirneighborhood, and part of me has
been thinking maybe it's onlybecause we have work that this
actually can work, because thenyou get some part of your social
life covered by going to anoffice, small chat over the
(16:15):
coffee or the dinner and stufflike that.
And I haven't I'm not clear atall on either what I mean or how
to define it.
Yasmin (16:24):
I can hear that.
Jesper Conrad (16:27):
But I could just, in the years, end up feeling
this loathing against going towork in an office and sitting.
And Cecilia was at home withour children and, as you know,
the Nordic summers or wintersthe daylight is very short and I
could sit at the office and ifthe sun was outside, I knew the
(16:48):
sun would have set when I gotout and I could see a picture.
She called me during the day, Iknew they were out walking and
I could see the sun and it wasjust like why am I sitting here
together with people I notdislike but that I would never
go invite for dinner at homebecause we are not alike?
Yeah, and this just grew andgrew and grew until it felt so
(17:13):
weird to go to work that weneeded to find a way to break
free.
And and we, we found it.
Is that something similar?
What happened in your life orwhere are you?
Does it sound total maniac whatI'm saying, or am I making
myself a little clear?
Yasmin (17:32):
I mean, you're making yourself completely clear to us
I can speak for both of us, forsure, totally clear and it
sounds like you've had that sortof that call, that tug within
you that you know, life could bea little different.
It could be a little bitdifferent and or maybe very uh,
(17:53):
depending on how big a step youtake.
But yeah, I think, yeah, weboth have had that, haven't we?
Andy (17:59):
yeah, sure yeah, I mean, like you're saying, we lived in
a lovely village and we had niceneighbours and friends in the
village, but it's not really.
There's a community of sorts,but it's not a living community.
And, yeah, people are, all youknow, very different and maybe
(18:19):
it's quite insular and peopleyou know have their jobs and
their houses and that's like yousay, a nuclear family, and then
there's another one, and thenthere's another one.
Um, so what we were looking for, I guess, was more of that uh,
community as a whole.
Um, you know, where people areliving in close proximity
together, sharing, sharing theirlives in in more of a holistic
(18:41):
way, everything about theirlives coming together, having,
you know, sort of education,those other adults that are
important in the children'slives, hopefully doing that in a
beautiful and natural setting.
Yasmin (18:54):
That's right.
And also I think what a lot offamilies, what a lot of parents
experience in our society isloneliness and it is stress
because the hours are long andoften at work and there's not
(19:17):
quite enough support.
So I think there's almost likean like an epidemic of that's
the right word of, you know,lots of parents feeling quite,
you know, overwhelmed and burntout actually with it all,
(19:38):
because I don't think it'spossible actually to work, have
school time and being able tolook after a household and your
children at the same time.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think something has to
give and I think a lot of peoplefeel that it's too much.
Not everybody, I'm not talkingfor everyone, but I think
(20:00):
everyone who's tried that knowshow hard it is or how hard it
can be, and so we wanted alsothat that.
Actually.
Does life have to be sochallenging?
Does it have to be so hard?
Can we have more ease and moreplay in our lives?
Can we prioritize things likeLike here, for instance, during
(20:20):
the high season, when we havefamilies here part-time and some
full-time, and when we have ourhigh season, which is just
ending now, we can basicallyroll out of bed and go to a fire
rhythm dance or a cacaoceremony or things like that and
just feel that connection andsupport and having the children
run around and play with eachother.
(20:41):
And I think no matter where youare, it will be challenging,
but I think for us it'sdefinitely been a life with more
ease.
Cecilie Conrad (20:54):
I would say, we talked about today how the
mainstream life with both adultson a nine to five or the
equivalent and the children in aschool setting or
institutionalized children, whenthere are many advantages and
and uh, obviously downsides, andwe opted out, you opted out.
(21:17):
One of the things that therejust isn't enough time for is
actually living.
Yeah, actually having enoughtime to process your emotion,
having enough time to completeyour conversations.
I spend so many hours every daytalking to the same four people
(21:40):
, which is my three childrentraveling with me and my husband
, but I really feel that theseconversations are important to
our life, that this is wrappingthings up, this is living it in
detail and I just cannot imaginegoing back to being so rushed
(22:04):
in life that I have to Our son,one of the youngest he just
broke his arm two days ago andhad he been a schooled kid, he
would have gone to school thenext day and I would have been
at work and I mean the way wewere all carrying his emotional
reaction to breaking his armthat took the entire day.
(22:28):
That was what filled it up andmy reaction and, you know, the
whole family we all had.
There was a lot going on and Ijust can't imagine choosing a
life where I wouldn't have timefor that, because that's more
important.
Yasmin (22:44):
I completely hear you and it warms my heart to hear
that To take time for thingslike this that's not how our
society is built.
Is it To give time for thingslike this Because it's so rigid?
Andy (23:01):
You're not producing when you're taking that time.
You need to process those lifeevents.
He has to go back to schoolbecause he needs to do x, y and
z exactly.
Yasmin (23:15):
I see time differently now as well.
Um, when you're removed fromthe mainstream education system,
you just see your child andtheir learning journey, without
the sort of external timelinethat they're supposed to be in,
(23:38):
and that's a really beautifulthing to be able to observe.
You know them and not them incomparison, and that's a really
beautiful thing to be able toobserve them and not them in
comparison to something else.
But actually, what are theirjoys, what are their driving
forces?
What's their own inner,internal timeline, that sort of
thing.
And I think also the older weget in a way, and our youngest
(24:03):
is grown up as well, she's noteven four yet, she's still
little.
But you know, you just savorthe moments in a different way
when you realize how fast it alloh yeah, I think your kids are
a little older, right?
Cecilie Conrad (24:19):
yeah, our youngest is 13.
Yeah, our oldest is 25.
Yasmin (24:25):
So yeah, we're in a different space.
Yeah, and are all four of themtraveling with you?
Cecilie Conrad (24:32):
No, the one who's 25, she has her own life
now, yeah, but 19, 16 and 13 arestill with us.
That's nice.
Jesper Conrad (24:41):
Yeah, it is, it is a gift every day.
We are very grateful.
That's nice.
Yeah, it is, it is a gift everyday.
Cecilie Conrad (24:44):
We are very grateful.
Jesper Conrad (24:45):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (24:46):
Yeah, kind of wanted to circle back to the
community thing.
It's a big deal for us as well.
Obviously, we live nomadically,we move around all the time and
you know who do you share yourlife with when you keep moving.
You know who do you share yourlife with when you keep moving.
But imagine someone listeningto this podcast, actually living
(25:11):
that house in that village inEngland or somewhere else,
having nice neighbors, havingnice friends, having a good job.
Maybe the kids are in some sortof alternative school,
everything's fine and they havecommunity.
I mean, they have theirgrandparents or the kids and the
neighbors and the maybe the boyscouts and the soccer club and
all that.
(25:31):
It is some version of community, isn't it, of course.
So I'm just curious what'scould you, can you define the
difference?
What were you looking for thatyou didn't have?
What kind of community was it?
Yasmin (25:49):
Ideally, what we wanted was to scoop up all our friends
and close family and just bringthem along.
It was like a huge.
One of the most painful thingswe've done in life really was
the transition from leavingEngland and essentially, in a
way, sweden too, because youwere going to be much further
(26:10):
away.
Yes, so it was leaving Europe,leaving our friends and family
there.
It was incredibly hard.
At times we were wondering havewe lost our minds?
I mean, it was so painful.
It was a huge process ofgrieving, grieving.
I was sick right at that timeas well, so my body was like and
Avani was a baby, so I was justin, still in this postpartum
(26:33):
space.
Looking back now I'm justwondering you know how we
survived it?
Or, seriously, it wasincredibly hard.
Uh, and the grieving and thesaying goodbyes and and all of
that.
So why I'm mentioning that?
Is because, yeah, we knew thatwe wanted something that was
(26:54):
still the unknown to us, whichis a little bit of a crazy thing
, like you know what you havebut you don't know what you're
going to get, because we didn'tleave the uk knowing we were
coming to sataland.
We hadn't found it yet.
We just knew initially we weregoing to rent out our house.
So we still had that connectionor something.
Uh, in the end we ended upselling our house, uh, because
(27:19):
it was just a good time to do itand then we wouldn't have to
travel back to do that all thatprocess.
So we decided to sell it.
So we kind of cut ties and,without making a formal
cognitive decision, we had kindof made that already.
So when we came here we werelike, let's find something.
We came to sattva.
(27:39):
It's a very close-knit smallcommunity of six families with
us now, so five families then,and it wasn't really like a
formal, intentional community.
It was also that things startedto change for the families here
during lockdown, that they werelooking for maybe a different
(28:00):
way of living together and maybealso generating generating an
income from for satvala and thebusiness which is or also is um
with a retreat center and so onlike to expand that a little bit
.
And so we're actually the firstfamily without any family.
(28:20):
But it was just.
We just went with intuition, Iwould say, and we just felt what
that?
What we're looking for is thewhole.
We can walk to our uh, you know, um learning co-op.
We can just um be with otherswithin walking distance who are
(28:41):
also keen on doing thingstogether, if not on a daily
basis, definitely weekly orseveral times a week.
You know, it's just a differentway of living and it's pretty
much exactly what we had longedfor, I think.
And sometimes you know you'relonging for something.
You don't know exactly what itis, but you're just longing for
a deeper sense of connection, adeeper sense of community than
(29:05):
perhaps what we experience withour friends, but they still live
a little distance away or wehave to drive sometimes.
So it's just this having themmore closer by people who are
offering things as well, youknow, who are putting things to
the table.
Andy (29:23):
I think that's probably quite an important difference is
the is the offerings and whatpeople bring and um, I guess you
have people who've chosen tolive in in in a certain place
and live in in a certain way,whereas maybe in your life in in
england you'll meet thosepeople, connect with those
people in in different indifferent areas of your life.
(29:46):
Maybe there's one at work orschool or somewhere else, but
here it sort of brings it alltogether into one place.
Of course, everybody hasdifferent ideals and different
ways of thinking, butessentially people are pretty
much on the same wavelength andeverybody's offering something
into the community.
So so yasmin is offering umsort of self-directed um,
(30:07):
learning, co-op, um for for thechildren here, and and we all
contribute, uh, partly to that,but it's mostly yasmin that
takes that, takes that on, andother people in the community
are offering you know certain,you know certain celebrations.
Every week there's somethingelse that brings us together as
(30:33):
a community.
So I think they're probably themain things we found that are
different from a life in the UKto the life here.
It's, you know, the people whohave chosen to be here, the
proximity together and, becauseof that proximity, the
opportunity to do things witheach other every day.
Jesper Conrad (30:51):
It reminds me of.
We have some friends whom welive with and co-live with when
we are in Denmark, who have afarm, and the joy of caring and
giving is so clear to me whenI'm there.
Sometimes they need help withsomething on the farm.
(31:12):
It could be removing a fence,for example.
I feel more valuable as aperson after having helped them
remove the fence than I do onwhen I make a work task where
the what I get in return ismoney.
What I get in return from themis their gratefulness and their
(31:32):
joy and the shared time together, the laughs we had removing the
fence and the working togetherand and there's working together
and and there's, yeah,something missing, or there were
for me when I went to work.
Every day it doesn't feelvaluable in the same way as it
does helping a friend with afence.
Andy (31:54):
That's right, I think it's a really good example and and
here we have similar thingsbecause we're all living on this
land together, we want toco-create the spaces.
So when we're working together,it's you know, it's for all of
us.
Together we're co-creating thelearning space for the children.
We're going to convert thisbuilding, we're going to paint
it, we're going to make itreally nice and then our
(32:14):
children are going to be there.
We're doing all that togetherwith the same idea and the same
same vision.
Yasmin (32:22):
Yeah, I can really hear what you're saying about that
and I think that makes me thinkabout you know, how have we
humans evolved to live Like?
What's the optimal way for ahuman being to live?
And I don't think there's oneanswer I think we can't just
(32:43):
talk about.
You know what we needbiologically and so on, but I
think we haven't evolved quitequite as far away from the sort
of core needs that human beingsneeded in for, for for which is
a smaller community in a sense Ican't remember what.
(33:07):
there's been some research onthis but to have like these
deeper, closer connections, Ithink you're not really able to
have that with more than is it40 people or something like that
roughly, I might get thatnumber wrong and I think if we
can sort of develop and nurturethose relationships, I think
(33:29):
that gives us a sense ofbelonging, naturally, um which I
think when we live in biggercities maybe, or even towns, um,
I think you can definitely dothat, and I can see around the
world that there are communityurban communities as well,
popping up a little bit of adecentralized kind of concept,
(33:50):
and I think that's the future.
Actually, I believe I don'tthink everyone has to come to
the jungle in belize, you know,and to experience that I think
we can definitely do that in ourvillages in england or denmark,
you know for sure.
It's just a and it happensalready, it's, it's happening
everywhere and I think more andmore people are realizing that
(34:11):
we need that, for, like it's asimportant as food and and water
in a way, because otherwise wewe become malnourished
emotionally, essentially.
Jesper Conrad (34:24):
I like that sentence malnourished
emotionally.
Yeah, I've been there.
Andy (34:30):
I just made that up.
Jesper Conrad (34:31):
No, no, but I like it.
I like it a lot.
I remember earlier, when I wasyounger, I sometimes went to a
charity shop or something to getsecondhand clothes and I could
have moments where I was like,why are you volunteering your
time here?
You're not paid for it.
That's kind of weird.
(34:52):
But I'm glad you're there andnow I'm like, oh, now I get it.
The community, the sense ofbeing there, of doing something
and doing something for others.
It just took me some years togrow into.
Cecilie Conrad (35:07):
I've just been thinking, husband, you talk
about how you don't like thenucleus family, but I think, in
a way, what you don't like isthe mainstream culture.
Jesper Conrad (35:20):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (35:21):
Because you have a great it sounds.
You have a great it sounds likeyou have a great community
where you live, where you get toshare everyday life and you do
a lot of meaningful thingstogether and you share skills
and all these things, in a way,could be done in an urban
lifestyle with neighbors.
It just isn't, because theculture is that when you hang
(35:41):
out, you have coffee and talkabout things, or you grill or
celebrate birthdays instead oftaking down fences and teaching
each other's children orpainting each other's bathrooms
or whatever you could have donetogether.
You don't do that.
That's like your own problem.
Yasmin (36:00):
So it's a cultural thing .
Cecilie Conrad (36:02):
I don't think you would want anyone to mess
with our little circle here.
Jesper Conrad (36:07):
No.
Cecilie Conrad (36:08):
And I know that we've been looking at
communities invited intocommunities.
People talk all the time abouthow we should find an
intentional community, butbecause of who we are and the
way we are radical and the thingthat stops me all the time is
there's a limit to how much Iwant to share and one of the
(36:28):
things I don't want to share ismy children.
I'm not going to share bringingup my children.
I'm about free.
I don't want anyone to messwith that.
I mean, I like people and Ilike my kids having making
friends with all kinds of peopleand they can obviously do
whatever they want.
But this whole that's one ofthe things that work in the
(36:55):
communities we have been livingin nomadically.
So we come, we stay for a while, we leave.
That's how we work, thatthere's no confusion about.
This child is my child and thatchild is not my child no, no
and now I'm listening to you inthis conversation.
Yeah, and you say you don't likethe family system, not your
(37:17):
culture around.
How do we share life?
Jesper Conrad (37:19):
yeah, and that's also why it is something I'm
exploring, because I think thatthe way I look at how I would
portray the nuclear family islike single-unit families you go
to work, you come home, youwatch Netflix, you go to work
the next day and if you meetwith friends it's only in the
(37:40):
weekends and it's very organizedin a way.
I find fake and I dislike itand I think that it creates a
version of life where peoplethink that life restarts on
Mondays and you need tocelebrate on the weekends
because it's a weekend andthere's something with that
(38:00):
construction I think only worksbecause social life is kind of
covered going to work, so whenyou come home you are not lonely
or you are kind of it is likeeating on McDonald's going to
work the kind of social lifeinteraction you have.
Yeah, you're sociallymalnourished, but you get enough
(38:22):
to not go out and hunt yourfriends down and say, hey, it's
Tuesday evening, I just want tochat, I just want to dance, have
fun and enjoy life.
Cecilie Conrad (38:30):
Maybe you're too tired.
Jesper Conrad (38:31):
Yeah, maybe you're too tired.
So, yes, it's not the nuclearfamily, but it's the structure
in everyday modern life that I,when I think back on it, I felt
trapped, I felt imprisoned ingoing to work and I just am so
grateful for the freedom I havetoday where if I want to do my
(38:58):
yoga Tuesday till 12 o'clock, Ido my yoga Tuesday till 12
o'clock.
Of course, I have economicresponsibilities.
There's clients I work for andhelp.
I have meetings, I havedeadlines, but I decide over my
own time.
I have not sold my nine to fivelifestyle.
(39:18):
I tried that for 20 somethingyears and I'm so grateful for
being out of it and that is whatI load.
It is this um imprisonment intoan everyday culture where you,
as I say, believe now it'sfriday, now I need to get
hammered and party, because nowI'm off work, and then Monday,
(39:41):
mondays are boring because Ineed to go to back, work, to
work.
That's something in thatreality that I just can't stand
any longer and I'm grateful fornot having been in many years.
But when I look at it from theoutside, I'm like someone needs
(40:01):
to shout it out there.
Someone needs to say hey, whatare you doing?
What is happening.
Why are you doing that towardsyourself?
I wish someone had shouted itto me 20 years ago so I could
have started earlier.
But I know the level of fear Ihad when cecilia first started
about talking abouthomeschooling.
Shout it.
(40:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah, you kind ofshout it, but I came from what I
was brought up with and thatwas you go to work.
That's how life is kind of.
And here I am sitting on thehighway because we had a podcast
we wanted to do with you.
So we are parked somewhere inFrance and are heading towards
(40:43):
Antibes because we are going tosee a Picasso museum tomorrow.
That's like the goal.
Yeah, sorry for ranting.
Yasmin (40:50):
You're going everywhere.
I love the fact that we get tosort of just connect with you
guys, like on the road that youjust stopped everything you know
and then just like let's havethis chat.
I love that amazing thanks.
Thanks for you know, allowingus to do that.
That's fantastic, and and thatis a part of the freedom that
(41:11):
you have created for yourselvesand and your family, which is
beautiful.
Um, I also want to ask could italso be that, um, the family is
?
I think it's still amazing.
I mean, like the family unit isbeautiful.
I think it's always going to be.
However, families can look inmany different ways.
(41:32):
It doesn't have to beheteronormative.
It can be looking in so manydifferent ways, and so I think
maybe we're a little bit tiredof that as well.
At least I am.
And then also, can the nuclearfamily, even if it looks
different to what ours, looklike?
Could it be that it can't giveus everything?
(41:56):
Can we get all our emotionalnourishment or deep connection
from one partner and ourchildren?
It's just a question I'mputting out there one partner
and our children is.
Jesper Conrad (42:11):
It's just a question I'm putting out there.
Yeah, I, I know, for example,we can take a such a simple
thing as humor me and my wifedon't share it's not funny I'm
not.
I'm too stupid sometimes I havea level of stupidity and I
really just enjoy when I meetpeople where I can say the most
stupid shit and I can see theylaugh and and where I'm like,
(42:33):
are they understand it?
Cecilie Conrad (42:35):
because it's not just stupid to be stupid, I
just don't find it funny no butI think you're right and I and I
think it's one of the pointsthat we've been pointing at as
well One of the lies, basically,of the idea of modern life and
(42:55):
the idea of the romantic lovethat you marry this person and
that has to fulfill most of youradult needs to unfold.
You can have a relationship withyour siblings and you might
have one or two you could callyour best friends, but that's it
(43:16):
, and the best friends thespouse kind of has to be an
all-round solution and and Ithink that's very wrong and it's
wrong and it creates a lot ofsuffering, because then if you
have a friend that fulfills someof your needs in a way your
(43:40):
spouse can't, there will bejealousy, there might be drama,
and's not, it's not a romanticrelationship.
There's no threat to thenucleus family.
You know you can share havingyour children and you can be
married and have yourrelationship.
But you can have a friend withwhom you share some passion or
(44:05):
who can fulfill some sort ofyour need or the way you want to
laugh, yeah, I can't give himthat because you just don't
share.
It's very rare.
We find the same thing funnyand we all like laughing, and I
don't mind, you can be stupidwith whoever finds you funny
yeah, yeah yeah, it sounds sorude
Jesper Conrad (44:29):
I mean I think it's great, I think it's, I
think it's a great exampleexactly that we cannot be
everything for example, ceciliais writing a book together with
a good friend, jonathan, and inthe start I had to stop myself
because it's like, oh, am I notfulfilling that part of my
(44:49):
wife's um intellectual needsthat she want to go down and
write this wanted to write abook with me as well.
Yeah, yeah no, no, the stuffhappened in me until I was like,
hey, I'm actually quite securein our relationship.
We have been married 20 years.
I know it's romantic, but hefulfills that part of her
(45:09):
intellectual need.
And they are on the samewavelength with the things they
discuss in that book and I'mlike, oh great, then I don't
need to listen to it.
Perfect, I got it to laugh.
Andy (45:22):
Definitely laughing together on this podcast.
Cecilie Conrad (45:26):
We do laugh together.
Andy (45:27):
We do.
I'm just laughing at Tim.
Cecilie Conrad (45:32):
Instead of with.
Okay, so the downside of thisconversation is I kind of want
to go to Belize now.
Jesper Conrad (45:38):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (45:39):
A little bit off the path.
Jesper Conrad (45:40):
But it's near Mexico Kind of.
Yeah, yeah, I know you couldbuy some.
Cecilie Conrad (45:46):
We need to get over the same pond.
Jesper Conrad (45:48):
Yes, yes.
Cecilie Conrad (45:50):
This sounds lovely.
Yasmin (45:52):
You're welcome to come anytime, just let us know when.
Cecilie Conrad (45:57):
Yeah, I don't know.
Andy (45:58):
Let's not discuss plans on the podcast.
Jesper Conrad (46:00):
That's just too complicated.
So we try to stay within somesort of time limit on our
podcast.
So I will try to stay withinsome sort of time limit on our
podcast.
So I will try to round it up.
Cecilie Conrad (46:12):
Okay, what if the listeners want to go to
Belize?
Do you have like a real Airbnb?
Anyone can book it, or is ityeah?
Andy (46:20):
absolutely yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (46:21):
There, you go.
Andy (46:22):
Perfect.
Yasmin (46:24):
Here at Sattvaland.
Jesper Conrad (46:26):
Yeah.
Yasmin (46:26):
You can put a link in the description.
Jesper Conrad (46:27):
We'll put the link in the description and
everything.
But first, for people who arelistening and I believe many
have dreamt of I know we dreamtof it before we took the steps
this oh, we want to do somethingdifferent in life, we want to
travel full time, we want tomove to another country.
(46:47):
For many people, including us,for a long period of time we
didn't act on the dream, but youhave done it, both with the
bike ride through CentralAmerica and now with moving to
another country.
So for people who are dreaming,do you have any advice?
What would you have wished tohave said to yourself when you
(47:10):
were there?
Yasmin (47:16):
You mean before we sort of made the decision to come
here, or during, I think it's aquestion sometimes how to take
the step.
Cecilie Conrad (47:25):
Yeah, how to get started.
Is there any hack that you have?
Yasmin (47:31):
Would you like to start?
Andy (47:33):
Yeah, I'm thinking having a partner who says I'm not going
to spend another winter inEngland.
Okay, I'm going to start doingthis right now.
Yeah, and you were seriousabout that.
I knew that.
Yasmin (47:52):
Yeah, I'd almost forgotten about that, because
now, when you're always inalmost perpetual, eternal summer
, you kind of forget and now youthink, oh, it seems so lovely,
especially during Christmas.
You know winter and snow.
You're romanticising now, butit's actually been like for me
it's been.
You know, living here has hasgiven me personally a higher
(48:15):
quality of life, just throughthe sun, the sunshine, and I'm a
person who needs that.
Cecilie Conrad (48:20):
everyone's different no, no everyone we
just took a bad decision thiswinter and went to Denmark in
January.
No, it started earlier and Ithink that I mean you could call
it a bad decision, but it wasjust the final nail in the
coffin.
You know, I cannot do this.
(48:40):
No no, no, there's no way.
This was a crazy idea I hadeight years ago.
I definitely am not compatible.
Jesper Conrad (48:48):
No, but also after six and a half year of
full-time traveling, mostlystaying in spring or summer time
, sometimes fall, but never inwinter.
I had forgot how great it is inthe Nordic countries in the
winter and you're like thinking,oh, I can do it, it's fun,
we're together with friends, butI could feel the emotional
(49:09):
drain.
And it's first after one and ahalf months now, in the hotter
climate and sun, that I feelgenuinely happy again.
No, seriously.
Yasmin (49:20):
I hear you.
Jesper Conrad (49:22):
If you're ever dreaming and thinking like oh,
maybe you can do one month, buta winter we did a winter.
Cecilie Conrad (49:28):
Yeah, we did a month.
We were in England also Verybrave.
Jesper Conrad (49:34):
Back to your steps.
Back to your steps.
Andy (49:38):
That was a big catalyst, but there's a lot of things
behind that and the one thingthat I would say a big driver.
One thing to think about is alittle bit what we discussed
before it.
It's time, isn't it?
It's time you, you have acertain lifetime on this, on
this planet and, um, you haveand you don't know how long
(49:59):
that's going to be.
You have a certain time withyour children.
You don't know how long that'sgoing to be.
So what do you want to do withthat time?
You've got choices.
You can choose what to do withthat time.
You can spend it wherever youwant, but can you choose to make
the best of that time?
What do you really want to do?
Do you want to spend that timewith your children as they're
(50:19):
growing up, and have thatfreedom to do that every day and
experience that wonderfulnessof your children growing up, and
with your partner?
That's a choice you can make.
So that's what drove it for methinking about.
You know what's our time?
It's it's a limited time.
It's hopefully a long time, butit's limited.
Everything is limited and whatdo I want to do with that
(50:40):
limited time that I have?
Yasmin (50:43):
yes, and I would like to add to that exactly Actually I
was going to say somethingsimilar because I think that in
our culture we don't talk aboutdeath and dying or the end of
our life very much or at all.
It's like this we're alwaysgoing to be productive and then
by the end we get to enjoy thefruits of time, which is pension
(51:07):
and so on, the fruits of, youknow, time, which is pension and
so on.
And I think for me it's been aprocess, getting to know myself
and my own mortality more.
That's actually been thebiggest factor.
So it's similar to what you'resaying, andy, that knowing and
understanding that we're nothere forever, and that has
(51:29):
helped me to play more and takegreater risks, I suppose,
because I know that there are noguarantees of tomorrow even.
But we live in a culture wherewe have been sort of conditioned
to believe that we can just goon and on and make plans for
years to, you know, in thefuture.
(51:49):
We don't know if we're evergoing to reach that.
So I think when you reallystart to deeply understand that
I think it's a lifetime processI'm not done with it yet but
when you start looking at thatmore deeply, I think that will
help you navigate the choices inlife and maybe also help you to
(52:12):
follow that inner voice that weall have.
I mean, of course, that canlook different for each and
every one.
Not everyone wants to go on acrazy adventure.
For some people, they mightwant to deepen their life where
they already are, which I thinkit's an adventure in itself too
or want to travel, like you youguys are, for instance.
(52:32):
So I think there's no one, ofcourse, no one thing.
We have our own callings andpurposes here in life, and I
think that's also whatself-directed education is about
, I feel, is to know yourselfand to get to know yourself and
be able to follow that innercalling that you have, and
everything should just really beabout supporting that and not
(52:55):
about somebody else's dream orsomebody else's calling.
Cecilie Conrad (52:57):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, just do it.
It's the short version, rightyeah?
Jesper Conrad (53:06):
exactly no.
No, the respect of the time.
I'm sorry.
Cecilie Conrad (53:11):
But really it is .
I mean, time is there's notgoing to be any better time.
It's not going to get easier ifthe kids get older or you know.
Somehow at some point you haveto make a decision and make that
choice and do something else,if that's what's calling.
Yasmin (53:31):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (53:32):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (53:33):
For people who want to find the project you're
involved in.
Is there a website address?
How do they find you?
Yasmin (53:46):
Yes, so we have a few different ones.
Satva Land is the retreatcenter and community hub site.
We can share all the links withyou if you like.
And then we have some socialmedia links to the learning
group and the learning co-op andto Satva Land itself so people
(54:07):
can take a look if they like andif they want to come and visit
they can just contact us.
We also just had a familyretreat on our first family
retreat, our first retreat fullstop, and Sattva Land's first
family retreat, which wasInteresting, it was amazing.
Jesper Conrad (54:28):
So, Jasmine and Andy.
It was a really big pleasureand I was glad to explore the
subject with you and unpack someof them.
Thanks a lot for your time.
Yasmin (54:40):
Thank you so much for having us.
It's been such a pleasure.
We could have continued talkingfor much longer.
Cecilie Conrad (54:47):
Yeah, we could definitely.
Yasmin (54:49):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (54:50):
Thank you.
Today we're together with Jasmine and Andy.
I found you two on Instagramand I read the small bio and I
was like, oh, I want to talkwith them.
But first of all, welcome.
It's super great to see you.
So, jasmine and Andy, I think Iwould like to start with a talk
(00:25):
about freedom because for thepeople watching, they will look
at the video and say that lookshot, it looks nice, it looks
green and rich in nature.
Where are you right now?
Andy (00:40):
Now we're in Belize, so this is our home.
We've been here for about threeyears and living where we are
now for about two years.
Jesper Conrad (00:50):
So to turn that into a talk about freedom?
Jasmine, you're originally fromSweden, andy, you're from UK.
What happened in your life thatled you down a path where
Sweden wasn't good enough, ukwasn't good enough, and I'm
searching for a deeper answerthan just the weather.
(01:11):
Maybe it is.
Andy (01:17):
Well, we enjoyed our life in the UK.
We'd been living there forabout 10 years.
We had a nice house and friendsand we didn't leave because we
didn't like it there, butfreedom was definitely part of
the answer.
We've been looking at making achange, we've been looking at
other ways of living, and Belizewasn't the first place that
came up in our search we.
Yasmin (01:39):
Actually this was before , just before COVID.
So I was working at analternative school called Inwood
Small School and our oldest son, tio, was also a student there
and we thought we would dosomething like this when he hits
the age of you know, the end ofthe school years there, which
(02:00):
he would have been 11.
But then things changed,management changed and so
finished there, and then thatwas pretty much exactly on the
day COVID hit as well.
So the plan was actually totravel down Europe in our van
that we had converted and wewere going to travel down to
(02:22):
Europe and visit differentintentional communities,
communities because that's whatwe knew we wanted and what we've
been sort of looking for andfeeling a longing and a tug for
for a long time.
Actually, ever since Tierra, ourfirst one, was born.
We could feel the sort ofstrange loneliness of being in a
(02:44):
you know, this little familyunit in a separate house in a
lovely village in England,beautiful and wonderful in many
ways.
But we just particularly I hadthat strong feeling that why are
we doing this on our own?
Why are we not doing thistogether?
And I remember that verystrongly and it's just been
(03:04):
following me ever since and Ithink, the more the children
grew and we had Viggo, oursecond, and eventually Evan, our
third, yeah, that tug justbecame stronger, I would say.
And Europe was our first ideabecause it would be less far
away from friends, good friendsand family and made a lot of
(03:27):
sense.
But then, because COVID hit,that traveling, of course, was
very limited, very restrictedand at the time we didn't know
is this going to last for daysor weeks or years, and I think
it was very much a case of theobstacle is the path right?
We really felt that.
(03:48):
So this idea of travelingaround communities and learning
from them, maybe find the rightcommunity for us, or starting
our own, that wasn't going towork.
In Europe, we felt, yeah, Iguess there was a freedom aspect
to that as well.
Andy (04:02):
In terms of that felt pretty limited at the time.
In Europe I work online.
There's going to be somerestrictions around that in
European countries and there'sdefinitely fewer restrictions
around that in Belize.
So in those sort of practicalelements there was some freedom
aspects there as well.
Yasmin (04:17):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (04:21):
So from the plan of traveling in a van in Europe
to Belize.
Was that random?
Yasmin (04:31):
That's a really good question, actually.
So one of our families at ourold school in Woods is a British
American family.
Well, they told us we kept intouch and they told us, well,
we're going to Belize.
Well, they told us we kept intouch and they told us, well,
we're going to Belize.
And we were like, oh, belize,we love Belize because we
traveled here 15 years ago.
Actually, we cycled from Mexicoto Panama, maybe two thirds on
(05:01):
bike and then the rest sometimeson a bus or on top of a truck
or you know something like that,but roughly.
we actually cycled past here onthe on the hummingbird highway
where we are now 15 and it'salmost, probably nearly 16 years
ago now, and so it just sparkedsomething in us, and actually
particularly in you.
Andy (05:15):
You weren't quite as keen on europe as you were yeah, and
when we started discussingbelize I remember I loved it and
I even remember when we werehere a long time ago thinking
wouldn't it be amazing to livehere, build a house in that
jungle there and be a part ofthat amazing nature and live?
Cecilie Conrad (05:33):
in it.
Here we are now yeah.
Yeah, it's funny, huh Thingsyou think wouldn't that be great
, do you have sometimes that Ifeel?
Sometimes I find myself in asituation like that and I forgot
I dreamt about it.
So I'm in the situation.
(05:53):
I'm like, oh yeah, that was thething I thought back then would
be so great.
And now, now, here I am.
It's as if you have to have thedream, have the idea, think
about it for a while, forget itand then suddenly, whoop, there
you go, yeah.
Andy (06:12):
It was definitely a catalyst in both, I guess, a
practical way and a mental wayof pushing you into another.
This is happening now.
Okay, this is the reality ofthe world.
And what do we want to do inthat reality?
Jesper Conrad (06:27):
it just it really fast, like not not being a part
of it go to a different reality.
Yeah, do you?
I imagine sometimes when youtalk with people they're like,
oh, living in belize, that mustbe a dream life, and in many
ways I'm also sure it is.
Sometimes we've.
(06:49):
We as a family have now beenfull-time traveling for six and
a half years.
Sometimes I'm just, you know,tired or annoyed, and then this
morning I looked around me andwas like, oh, but you're in this
awesome village in in theAndorras and you have all this
(07:10):
freedom you have created.
How about being grateful andI'm saying it as I actually
sometimes need to re-remind meof what we have accomplished, of
being grateful of it, becauseotherwise that everyday bug of
normalcy can like sneak in andjust make me forget how great
(07:30):
life is.
Do you have that feeling ever,if everything's still just
wonderful every day?
Yasmin (07:38):
no, I totally agree and hear what you say for sure.
I mean, life is always going tobe life with children and the
chaos of the world.
All of these things are, ofcourse, a reality for us as well
, and sometimes it can even be abit harder, in a way, when you
do something so different and somaybe you're removed from your
(08:03):
close family and friends thatyou grew up with, and then a new
environment that you have tolearn to navigate.
That so it's always.
It can be harder, it's complex,isn't it?
I can imagine it's the same foryou guys, but yeah, it's
definitely both.
It's almost like life somehowintensifies.
It becomes so amazing and soincredible, like a dream in many
(08:27):
ways, and then it's also theshadow sides are also rising and
that you have to face more aswell.
It's like everything is alittle bit more intense.
That's how I experience it.
Andy (08:38):
I agree that I mean the intense of everything the
surroundings, the nature, theheat is intense or the rain is
intense yeah but then you stillhave your normal everyday life
and everybody's emotions andneeds and everything is the same
as it is in the UK, but you'vetransplanted it here into a
different place.
You have certainly more freedomto do, to do different things,
but still the same things arisewithin you and I totally agree
(09:02):
with that, with that gratitudeaspect and, you know,
recognizing that I wake up earlyin the morning and start work.
I start work at 5 o'clock.
It's pretty early, I have toget out of bed, but then I can
come and sit here and absorb abeautiful nature and be calm and
relaxed and be grateful for theopportunity to do what we're
(09:24):
doing.
Jesper Conrad (09:25):
Yeah, jasmine mentioned something and be calm
and relaxed and be grateful forthe opportunity to do what we're
doing.
Yeah, jasmine mentionedsomething earlier where, just
like in a passing sentence and Iwas like what did she say?
Which was, oh, when we were onbicycles here 15 years ago, that
sounds like an epic adventurein itself.
What happened and why did youdecide to go on this adventure
(09:47):
back then?
Andy (09:50):
So it was on bicycles, yeah.
So I think we were entirelysure how it came about really.
But we wanted to do something.
We wanted to take some time.
It was just the two of usbefore children.
We wanted to do some time.
It was just the two of usbefore children.
We wanted to do some, do sometraveling together.
And the reason we chose CentralAmerica is because it's not that
big and we thought we could, wecould cycle.
(10:11):
You know, if you choose SouthAmerica, that's a long way to go
.
Central America is not so big.
We can see quite a lot ofcountries in a in a relatively
short space.
And we're cycling.
We never done anything likethat before.
We weren't keen cyclists.
We had to buy everything, uh,plan a route and then just go,
and it was.
It was fantastic, amazing, yeah, and you've probably
(10:33):
experienced some of that in inthe van as well.
But you know, when you'recycling, you're forced to go
through every type ofenvironment, every village and
town, and you have to stay inthese places and you see a
country in a different way thanif you're travelling through on
the bus or a motorised vehicle.
And we had an amazing time inBelize and I think one of the
(10:56):
reasons was we had a commonlanguage.
We didn't speak still don'tspeak Spanish, but we had the
English to be able tocommunicate with all the local
people, that people live hereand have that, you know
possibility to have deeperconversation with people and
understand more of the more thepeople in the environment.
Yasmin (11:15):
Yeah, and I remember I had just finished.
I was kind of a mature student,I had finished teacher training
in sweden and we wanted to dosomething after that and you,
you finished your work.
So we just used some saved upmoney and wanted to do something
.
We knew that we probablywouldn't have that kind of
freedom again, so we wanted tomake the most of it.
Cecilie Conrad (11:39):
I think essentially yeah, and, and here
you are with the same freedomlater on in life it's a
different freedom it's adifferent freedom, yeah our
children just proposed that weshould go on bikes from paris to
barcelona this summer wow okay,that's awesome, they did yeah
(12:01):
well one of them, proposed thatthe others didn't say no.
Jesper Conrad (12:04):
No, okay, yeah, but that's that sounds like an
adventure, yeah.
Yasmin (12:09):
I love the sound of that .
Cecilie Conrad (12:11):
Yeah.
You should do it Totally.
The only thing is the logistics, because we live in the van, so
who's moving in?
I kind of have to figure thatpart out.
I was thinking, yes, we wantedto talk about freedom, but then
you started talking aboutsomething more interesting,
which is community, and theobvious question is did you find
(12:33):
it then in Belize?
Yasmin (12:36):
I think we found a community.
I mean there are manycommunities and many different
types of communities.
There are local communities ofpeople who grew up here and have
lived here for generations andgenerations and generations.
And then what we found here wasa small, beautiful community of
foreigners.
(12:56):
Actually an Italian family whocame here it's about 11 years
ago, so roughly, and theystarted this permaculture farm
here and they had volunteers inthe beginning and it was very
basic, very rustic, very simpleliving, and then eventually
(13:18):
became a retreat center as well.
So they developed reallybeautiful buildings and their
own homes and now it's mainlythat maybe a retreat center with
um, you know, airbnb kind ofaccommodation as well so we were
, um, it was.
Andy (13:40):
It was definitely something that was, it was a
primary factor in, in it wasdefinitely something that was a
primary factor in making thedecision to move to another
place.
Was that community, in a caseyou could call an intentional
community or community of peopleliving close together with
common ideals, that type ofthing?
(14:00):
So we didn't know what we wouldfind.
And we were looking around andwe looked at land and we, you
know, stood on a hill in the topof the jungle looking at this
amazing countryside and, uh, youknow, with 20, 30 acres for
reasonable price, but thinking,you know, we could build a
community here, but you knowwhat, what's the outlay for that
(14:22):
in terms of time and you knoweffort, it's going to be a huge
undertaking.
So do we want to do that?
And then the other, the otherthing that we found was some of
this sort of community, a smallcommunity already here and
looking to grow.
So our choice was to join thatcommunity.
It's been, it's been wonderful,yeah, for two years now.
(14:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's been wonderful.
We've been there for two yearsnow.
Yasmin (14:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's been a bit, I think.
Jesper Conrad (14:49):
Yeah, we started out our life together when we
were 29, lots of kids, and itwas along the can you say normal
path of Cecilia is educated asa psychologist, I'm self-taught
(15:09):
but working marketing and on theonline digital world, and I had
a career path and she stood infront of going down her road and
we bought a house and got a dogand all these normal things and
we lived on the street with alot of houses and you of course
(15:29):
see the neighbors, but it's notthe same as seeing or being
together with the neighbors.
And I am trying to figure outhow I can explain what I mean
about my dislike of the nuclearfamily as a concept.
I think there's somethingreally wild about these people
(15:54):
living in these small unitsalone without connection to
their neighbor or theirneighborhood, and part of me has
been thinking maybe it's onlybecause we have work that this
actually can work, because thenyou get some part of your social
life covered by going to anoffice, small chat over the
(16:15):
coffee or the dinner and stufflike that.
And I haven't I'm not clear atall on either what I mean or how
to define it.
Yasmin (16:24):
I can hear that.
Jesper Conrad (16:27):
But I could just, in the years, end up feeling
this loathing against going towork in an office and sitting.
And Cecilia was at home withour children and, as you know,
the Nordic summers or wintersthe daylight is very short and I
could sit at the office and ifthe sun was outside, I knew the
(16:48):
sun would have set when I gotout and I could see a picture.
She called me during the day, Iknew they were out walking and
I could see the sun and it wasjust like why am I sitting here
together with people I notdislike but that I would never
go invite for dinner at homebecause we are not alike?
Yeah, and this just grew andgrew and grew until it felt so
(17:13):
weird to go to work that weneeded to find a way to break
free.
And and we, we found it.
Is that something similar?
What happened in your life orwhere are you?
Does it sound total maniac whatI'm saying, or am I making
myself a little clear?
Yasmin (17:32):
I mean, you're making yourself completely clear to us
I can speak for both of us, forsure, totally clear and it
sounds like you've had that sortof that call, that tug within
you that you know, life could bea little different.
It could be a little bitdifferent and or maybe very uh,
(17:53):
depending on how big a step youtake.
But yeah, I think, yeah, weboth have had that, haven't we?
Andy (17:59):
yeah, sure yeah, I mean, like you're saying, we lived in
a lovely village and we had niceneighbours and friends in the
village, but it's not really.
There's a community of sorts,but it's not a living community.
And, yeah, people are, all youknow, very different and maybe
(18:19):
it's quite insular and peopleyou know have their jobs and
their houses and that's like yousay, a nuclear family, and then
there's another one, and thenthere's another one.
Um, so what we were looking for, I guess, was more of that uh,
community as a whole.
Um, you know, where people areliving in close proximity
together, sharing, sharing theirlives in in more of a holistic
(18:41):
way, everything about theirlives coming together, having,
you know, sort of education,those other adults that are
important in the children'slives, hopefully doing that in a
beautiful and natural setting.
Yasmin (18:54):
That's right.
And also I think what a lot offamilies, what a lot of parents
experience in our society isloneliness and it is stress
because the hours are long andoften at work and there's not
(19:17):
quite enough support.
So I think there's almost likean like an epidemic of that's
the right word of, you know,lots of parents feeling quite,
you know, overwhelmed and burntout actually with it all,
(19:38):
because I don't think it'spossible actually to work, have
school time and being able tolook after a household and your
children at the same time.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think something has to
give and I think a lot of peoplefeel that it's too much.
Not everybody, I'm not talkingfor everyone, but I think
(20:00):
everyone who's tried that knowshow hard it is or how hard it
can be, and so we wanted alsothat that.
Actually.
Does life have to be sochallenging?
Does it have to be so hard?
Can we have more ease and moreplay in our lives?
Can we prioritize things likeLike here, for instance, during
(20:20):
the high season, when we havefamilies here part-time and some
full-time, and when we have ourhigh season, which is just
ending now, we can basicallyroll out of bed and go to a fire
rhythm dance or a cacaoceremony or things like that and
just feel that connection andsupport and having the children
run around and play with eachother.
(20:41):
And I think no matter where youare, it will be challenging,
but I think for us it'sdefinitely been a life with more
ease.
Cecilie Conrad (20:54):
I would say, we talked about today how the
mainstream life with both adultson a nine to five or the
equivalent and the children in aschool setting or
institutionalized children, whenthere are many advantages and
and uh, obviously downsides, andwe opted out, you opted out.
(21:17):
One of the things that therejust isn't enough time for is
actually living.
Yeah, actually having enoughtime to process your emotion,
having enough time to completeyour conversations.
I spend so many hours every daytalking to the same four people
(21:40):
, which is my three childrentraveling with me and my husband
, but I really feel that theseconversations are important to
our life, that this is wrappingthings up, this is living it in
detail and I just cannot imaginegoing back to being so rushed
(22:04):
in life that I have to Our son,one of the youngest he just
broke his arm two days ago andhad he been a schooled kid, he
would have gone to school thenext day and I would have been
at work and I mean the way wewere all carrying his emotional
reaction to breaking his armthat took the entire day.
(22:28):
That was what filled it up andmy reaction and, you know, the
whole family we all had.
There was a lot going on and Ijust can't imagine choosing a
life where I wouldn't have timefor that, because that's more
important.
Yasmin (22:44):
I completely hear you and it warms my heart to hear
that To take time for thingslike this that's not how our
society is built.
Is it To give time for thingslike this Because it's so rigid?
Andy (23:01):
You're not producing when you're taking that time.
You need to process those lifeevents.
He has to go back to schoolbecause he needs to do x, y and
z exactly.
Yasmin (23:15):
I see time differently now as well.
Um, when you're removed fromthe mainstream education system,
you just see your child andtheir learning journey, without
the sort of external timelinethat they're supposed to be in,
(23:38):
and that's a really beautifulthing to be able to observe.
You know them and not them incomparison, and that's a really
beautiful thing to be able toobserve them and not them in
comparison to something else.
But actually, what are theirjoys, what are their driving
forces?
What's their own inner,internal timeline, that sort of
thing.
And I think also the older weget in a way, and our youngest
(24:03):
is grown up as well, she's noteven four yet, she's still
little.
But you know, you just savorthe moments in a different way
when you realize how fast it alloh yeah, I think your kids are
a little older, right?
Cecilie Conrad (24:19):
yeah, our youngest is 13.
Yeah, our oldest is 25.
Yasmin (24:25):
So yeah, we're in a different space.
Yeah, and are all four of themtraveling with you?
Cecilie Conrad (24:32):
No, the one who's 25, she has her own life
now, yeah, but 19, 16 and 13 arestill with us.
That's nice.
Jesper Conrad (24:41):
Yeah, it is, it is a gift every day.
We are very grateful.
That's nice.
Yeah, it is, it is a gift everyday.
Cecilie Conrad (24:44):
We are very grateful.
Jesper Conrad (24:45):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (24:46):
Yeah, kind of wanted to circle back to the
community thing.
It's a big deal for us as well.
Obviously, we live nomadically,we move around all the time and
you know who do you share yourlife with when you keep moving.
You know who do you share yourlife with when you keep moving.
But imagine someone listeningto this podcast, actually living
(25:11):
that house in that village inEngland or somewhere else,
having nice neighbors, havingnice friends, having a good job.
Maybe the kids are in some sortof alternative school,
everything's fine and they havecommunity.
I mean, they have theirgrandparents or the kids and the
neighbors and the maybe the boyscouts and the soccer club and
all that.
(25:31):
It is some version of community, isn't it, of course.
So I'm just curious what'scould you, can you define the
difference?
What were you looking for thatyou didn't have?
What kind of community was it?
Yasmin (25:49):
Ideally, what we wanted was to scoop up all our friends
and close family and just bringthem along.
It was like a huge.
One of the most painful thingswe've done in life really was
the transition from leavingEngland and essentially, in a
way, sweden too, because youwere going to be much further
(26:10):
away.
Yes, so it was leaving Europe,leaving our friends and family
there.
It was incredibly hard.
At times we were wondering havewe lost our minds?
I mean, it was so painful.
It was a huge process ofgrieving, grieving.
I was sick right at that timeas well, so my body was like and
Avani was a baby, so I was justin, still in this postpartum
(26:33):
space.
Looking back now I'm justwondering you know how we
survived it?
Or, seriously, it wasincredibly hard.
Uh, and the grieving and thesaying goodbyes and and all of
that.
So why I'm mentioning that?
Is because, yeah, we knew thatwe wanted something that was
(26:54):
still the unknown to us, whichis a little bit of a crazy thing
, like you know what you havebut you don't know what you're
going to get, because we didn'tleave the uk knowing we were
coming to sataland.
We hadn't found it yet.
We just knew initially we weregoing to rent out our house.
So we still had that connectionor something.
Uh, in the end we ended upselling our house, uh, because
(27:19):
it was just a good time to do itand then we wouldn't have to
travel back to do that all thatprocess.
So we decided to sell it.
So we kind of cut ties and,without making a formal
cognitive decision, we had kindof made that already.
So when we came here we werelike, let's find something.
We came to sattva.
(27:39):
It's a very close-knit smallcommunity of six families with
us now, so five families then,and it wasn't really like a
formal, intentional community.
It was also that things startedto change for the families here
during lockdown, that they werelooking for maybe a different
(28:00):
way of living together and maybealso generating generating an
income from for satvala and thebusiness which is or also is um
with a retreat center and so onlike to expand that a little bit
.
And so we're actually the firstfamily without any family.
(28:20):
But it was just.
We just went with intuition, Iwould say, and we just felt what
that?
What we're looking for is thewhole.
We can walk to our uh, you know, um learning co-op.
We can just um be with otherswithin walking distance who are
(28:41):
also keen on doing thingstogether, if not on a daily
basis, definitely weekly orseveral times a week.
You know, it's just a differentway of living and it's pretty
much exactly what we had longedfor, I think.
And sometimes you know you'relonging for something.
You don't know exactly what itis, but you're just longing for
a deeper sense of connection, adeeper sense of community than
(29:05):
perhaps what we experience withour friends, but they still live
a little distance away or wehave to drive sometimes.
So it's just this having themmore closer by people who are
offering things as well, youknow, who are putting things to
the table.
Andy (29:23):
I think that's probably quite an important difference is
the is the offerings and whatpeople bring and um, I guess you
have people who've chosen tolive in in in a certain place
and live in in a certain way,whereas maybe in your life in in
england you'll meet thosepeople, connect with those
people in in different indifferent areas of your life.
(29:46):
Maybe there's one at work orschool or somewhere else, but
here it sort of brings it alltogether into one place.
Of course, everybody hasdifferent ideals and different
ways of thinking, butessentially people are pretty
much on the same wavelength andeverybody's offering something
into the community.
So so yasmin is offering umsort of self-directed um,
(30:07):
learning, co-op, um for for thechildren here, and and we all
contribute, uh, partly to that,but it's mostly yasmin that
takes that, takes that on, andother people in the community
are offering you know certain,you know certain celebrations.
Every week there's somethingelse that brings us together as
(30:33):
a community.
So I think they're probably themain things we found that are
different from a life in the UKto the life here.
It's, you know, the people whohave chosen to be here, the
proximity together and, becauseof that proximity, the
opportunity to do things witheach other every day.
Jesper Conrad (30:51):
It reminds me of.
We have some friends whom welive with and co-live with when
we are in Denmark, who have afarm, and the joy of caring and
giving is so clear to me whenI'm there.
Sometimes they need help withsomething on the farm.
(31:12):
It could be removing a fence,for example.
I feel more valuable as aperson after having helped them
remove the fence than I do onwhen I make a work task where
the what I get in return ismoney.
What I get in return from themis their gratefulness and their
(31:32):
joy and the shared time together, the laughs we had removing the
fence and the working togetherand and there's working together
and and there's, yeah,something missing, or there were
for me when I went to work.
Every day it doesn't feelvaluable in the same way as it
does helping a friend with afence.
Andy (31:54):
That's right, I think it's a really good example and and
here we have similar thingsbecause we're all living on this
land together, we want toco-create the spaces.
So when we're working together,it's you know, it's for all of
us.
Together we're co-creating thelearning space for the children.
We're going to convert thisbuilding, we're going to paint
it, we're going to make itreally nice and then our
(32:14):
children are going to be there.
We're doing all that togetherwith the same idea and the same
same vision.
Yasmin (32:22):
Yeah, I can really hear what you're saying about that
and I think that makes me thinkabout you know, how have we
humans evolved to live Like?
What's the optimal way for ahuman being to live?
And I don't think there's oneanswer I think we can't just
(32:43):
talk about.
You know what we needbiologically and so on, but I
think we haven't evolved quitequite as far away from the sort
of core needs that human beingsneeded in for, for for which is
a smaller community in a sense Ican't remember what.
(33:07):
there's been some research onthis but to have like these
deeper, closer connections, Ithink you're not really able to
have that with more than is it40 people or something like that
roughly, I might get thatnumber wrong and I think if we
can sort of develop and nurturethose relationships, I think
(33:29):
that gives us a sense ofbelonging, naturally, um which I
think when we live in biggercities maybe, or even towns, um,
I think you can definitely dothat, and I can see around the
world that there are communityurban communities as well,
popping up a little bit of adecentralized kind of concept,
(33:50):
and I think that's the future.
Actually, I believe I don'tthink everyone has to come to
the jungle in belize, you know,and to experience that I think
we can definitely do that in ourvillages in england or denmark,
you know for sure.
It's just a and it happensalready, it's, it's happening
everywhere and I think more andmore people are realizing that
(34:11):
we need that, for, like it's asimportant as food and and water
in a way, because otherwise wewe become malnourished
emotionally, essentially.
Jesper Conrad (34:24):
I like that sentence malnourished
emotionally.
Yeah, I've been there.
Andy (34:30):
I just made that up.
Jesper Conrad (34:31):
No, no, but I like it.
I like it a lot.
I remember earlier, when I wasyounger, I sometimes went to a
charity shop or something to getsecondhand clothes and I could
have moments where I was like,why are you volunteering your
time here?
You're not paid for it.
That's kind of weird.
(34:52):
But I'm glad you're there andnow I'm like, oh, now I get it.
The community, the sense ofbeing there, of doing something
and doing something for others.
It just took me some years togrow into.
Cecilie Conrad (35:07):
I've just been thinking, husband, you talk
about how you don't like thenucleus family, but I think, in
a way, what you don't like isthe mainstream culture.
Jesper Conrad (35:20):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (35:21):
Because you have a great it sounds.
You have a great it sounds likeyou have a great community
where you live, where you get toshare everyday life and you do
a lot of meaningful thingstogether and you share skills
and all these things, in a way,could be done in an urban
lifestyle with neighbors.
It just isn't, because theculture is that when you hang
(35:41):
out, you have coffee and talkabout things, or you grill or
celebrate birthdays instead oftaking down fences and teaching
each other's children orpainting each other's bathrooms
or whatever you could have donetogether.
You don't do that.
That's like your own problem.
Yasmin (36:00):
So it's a cultural thing .
Cecilie Conrad (36:02):
I don't think you would want anyone to mess
with our little circle here.
Jesper Conrad (36:07):
No.
Cecilie Conrad (36:08):
And I know that we've been looking at
communities invited intocommunities.
People talk all the time abouthow we should find an
intentional community, butbecause of who we are and the
way we are radical and the thingthat stops me all the time is
there's a limit to how much Iwant to share and one of the
(36:28):
things I don't want to share ismy children.
I'm not going to share bringingup my children.
I'm about free.
I don't want anyone to messwith that.
I mean, I like people and Ilike my kids having making
friends with all kinds of peopleand they can obviously do
whatever they want.
But this whole that's one ofthe things that work in the
(36:55):
communities we have been livingin nomadically.
So we come, we stay for a while, we leave.
That's how we work, thatthere's no confusion about.
This child is my child and thatchild is not my child no, no
and now I'm listening to you inthis conversation.
Yeah, and you say you don't likethe family system, not your
(37:17):
culture around.
How do we share life?
Jesper Conrad (37:19):
yeah, and that's also why it is something I'm
exploring, because I think thatthe way I look at how I would
portray the nuclear family islike single-unit families you go
to work, you come home, youwatch Netflix, you go to work
the next day and if you meetwith friends it's only in the
(37:40):
weekends and it's very organizedin a way.
I find fake and I dislike itand I think that it creates a
version of life where peoplethink that life restarts on
Mondays and you need tocelebrate on the weekends
because it's a weekend andthere's something with that
(38:00):
construction I think only worksbecause social life is kind of
covered going to work, so whenyou come home you are not lonely
or you are kind of it is likeeating on McDonald's going to
work the kind of social lifeinteraction you have.
Yeah, you're sociallymalnourished, but you get enough
(38:22):
to not go out and hunt yourfriends down and say, hey, it's
Tuesday evening, I just want tochat, I just want to dance, have
fun and enjoy life.
Cecilie Conrad (38:30):
Maybe you're too tired.
Jesper Conrad (38:31):
Yeah, maybe you're too tired.
So, yes, it's not the nuclearfamily, but it's the structure
in everyday modern life that I,when I think back on it, I felt
trapped, I felt imprisoned ingoing to work and I just am so
grateful for the freedom I havetoday where if I want to do my
(38:58):
yoga Tuesday till 12 o'clock, Ido my yoga Tuesday till 12
o'clock.
Of course, I have economicresponsibilities.
There's clients I work for andhelp.
I have meetings, I havedeadlines, but I decide over my
own time.
I have not sold my nine to fivelifestyle.
(39:18):
I tried that for 20 somethingyears and I'm so grateful for
being out of it and that is whatI load.
It is this um imprisonment intoan everyday culture where you,
as I say, believe now it'sfriday, now I need to get
hammered and party, because nowI'm off work, and then Monday,
(39:41):
mondays are boring because Ineed to go to back, work, to
work.
That's something in thatreality that I just can't stand
any longer and I'm grateful fornot having been in many years.
But when I look at it from theoutside, I'm like someone needs
(40:01):
to shout it out there.
Someone needs to say hey, whatare you doing?
What is happening.
Why are you doing that towardsyourself?
I wish someone had shouted itto me 20 years ago so I could
have started earlier.
But I know the level of fear Ihad when cecilia first started
about talking abouthomeschooling.
Shout it.
(40:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah, you kind ofshout it, but I came from what I
was brought up with and thatwas you go to work.
That's how life is kind of.
And here I am sitting on thehighway because we had a podcast
we wanted to do with you.
So we are parked somewhere inFrance and are heading towards
(40:43):
Antibes because we are going tosee a Picasso museum tomorrow.
That's like the goal.
Yeah, sorry for ranting.
Yasmin (40:50):
You're going everywhere.
I love the fact that we get tosort of just connect with you
guys, like on the road that youjust stopped everything you know
and then just like let's havethis chat.
I love that amazing thanks.
Thanks for you know, allowingus to do that.
That's fantastic, and and thatis a part of the freedom that
(41:11):
you have created for yourselvesand and your family, which is
beautiful.
Um, I also want to ask could italso be that, um, the family is
?
I think it's still amazing.
I mean, like the family unit isbeautiful.
I think it's always going to be.
However, families can look inmany different ways.
(41:32):
It doesn't have to beheteronormative.
It can be looking in so manydifferent ways, and so I think
maybe we're a little bit tiredof that as well.
At least I am.
And then also, can the nuclearfamily, even if it looks
different to what ours, looklike?
Could it be that it can't giveus everything?
(41:56):
Can we get all our emotionalnourishment or deep connection
from one partner and ourchildren?
It's just a question I'mputting out there one partner
and our children is.
Jesper Conrad (42:11):
It's just a question I'm putting out there.
Yeah, I, I know, for example,we can take a such a simple
thing as humor me and my wifedon't share it's not funny I'm
not.
I'm too stupid sometimes I havea level of stupidity and I
really just enjoy when I meetpeople where I can say the most
stupid shit and I can see theylaugh and and where I'm like,
(42:33):
are they understand it?
Cecilie Conrad (42:35):
because it's not just stupid to be stupid, I
just don't find it funny no butI think you're right and I and I
think it's one of the pointsthat we've been pointing at as
well One of the lies, basically,of the idea of modern life and
(42:55):
the idea of the romantic lovethat you marry this person and
that has to fulfill most of youradult needs to unfold.
You can have a relationship withyour siblings and you might
have one or two you could callyour best friends, but that's it
(43:16):
, and the best friends thespouse kind of has to be an
all-round solution and and Ithink that's very wrong and it's
wrong and it creates a lot ofsuffering, because then if you
have a friend that fulfills someof your needs in a way your
(43:40):
spouse can't, there will bejealousy, there might be drama,
and's not, it's not a romanticrelationship.
There's no threat to thenucleus family.
You know you can share havingyour children and you can be
married and have yourrelationship.
But you can have a friend withwhom you share some passion or
(44:05):
who can fulfill some sort ofyour need or the way you want to
laugh, yeah, I can't give himthat because you just don't
share.
It's very rare.
We find the same thing funnyand we all like laughing, and I
don't mind, you can be stupidwith whoever finds you funny
yeah, yeah yeah, it sounds sorude
Jesper Conrad (44:29):
I mean I think it's great, I think it's, I
think it's a great exampleexactly that we cannot be
everything for example, ceciliais writing a book together with
a good friend, jonathan, and inthe start I had to stop myself
because it's like, oh, am I notfulfilling that part of my
(44:49):
wife's um intellectual needsthat she want to go down and
write this wanted to write abook with me as well.
Yeah, yeah no, no, the stuffhappened in me until I was like,
hey, I'm actually quite securein our relationship.
We have been married 20 years.
I know it's romantic, but hefulfills that part of her
(45:09):
intellectual need.
And they are on the samewavelength with the things they
discuss in that book and I'mlike, oh great, then I don't
need to listen to it.
Perfect, I got it to laugh.
Andy (45:22):
Definitely laughing together on this podcast.
Cecilie Conrad (45:26):
We do laugh together.
Andy (45:27):
We do.
I'm just laughing at Tim.
Cecilie Conrad (45:32):
Instead of with.
Okay, so the downside of thisconversation is I kind of want
to go to Belize now.
Jesper Conrad (45:38):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (45:39):
A little bit off the path.
Jesper Conrad (45:40):
But it's near Mexico Kind of.
Yeah, yeah, I know you couldbuy some.
Cecilie Conrad (45:46):
We need to get over the same pond.
Jesper Conrad (45:48):
Yes, yes.
Cecilie Conrad (45:50):
This sounds lovely.
Yasmin (45:52):
You're welcome to come anytime, just let us know when.
Cecilie Conrad (45:57):
Yeah, I don't know.
Andy (45:58):
Let's not discuss plans on the podcast.
Jesper Conrad (46:00):
That's just too complicated.
So we try to stay within somesort of time limit on our
podcast.
So I will try to stay withinsome sort of time limit on our
podcast.
So I will try to round it up.
Cecilie Conrad (46:12):
Okay, what if the listeners want to go to
Belize?
Do you have like a real Airbnb?
Anyone can book it, or is ityeah?
Andy (46:20):
absolutely yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (46:21):
There, you go.
Andy (46:22):
Perfect.
Yasmin (46:24):
Here at Sattvaland.
Jesper Conrad (46:26):
Yeah.
Yasmin (46:26):
You can put a link in the description.
Jesper Conrad (46:27):
We'll put the link in the description and
everything.
But first, for people who arelistening and I believe many
have dreamt of I know we dreamtof it before we took the steps
this oh, we want to do somethingdifferent in life, we want to
travel full time, we want tomove to another country.
(46:47):
For many people, including us,for a long period of time we
didn't act on the dream, but youhave done it, both with the
bike ride through CentralAmerica and now with moving to
another country.
So for people who are dreaming,do you have any advice?
What would you have wished tohave said to yourself when you
(47:10):
were there?
Yasmin (47:16):
You mean before we sort of made the decision to come
here, or during, I think it's aquestion sometimes how to take
the step.
Cecilie Conrad (47:25):
Yeah, how to get started.
Is there any hack that you have?
Yasmin (47:31):
Would you like to start?
Andy (47:33):
Yeah, I'm thinking having a partner who says I'm not going
to spend another winter inEngland.
Okay, I'm going to start doingthis right now.
Yeah, and you were seriousabout that.
I knew that.
Yasmin (47:52):
Yeah, I'd almost forgotten about that, because
now, when you're always inalmost perpetual, eternal summer
, you kind of forget and now youthink, oh, it seems so lovely,
especially during Christmas.
You know winter and snow.
You're romanticising now, butit's actually been like for me
it's been.
You know, living here has hasgiven me personally a higher
(48:15):
quality of life, just throughthe sun, the sunshine, and I'm a
person who needs that.
Cecilie Conrad (48:20):
everyone's different no, no everyone we
just took a bad decision thiswinter and went to Denmark in
January.
No, it started earlier and Ithink that I mean you could call
it a bad decision, but it wasjust the final nail in the
coffin.
You know, I cannot do this.
(48:40):
No no, no, there's no way.
This was a crazy idea I hadeight years ago.
I definitely am not compatible.
Jesper Conrad (48:48):
No, but also after six and a half year of
full-time traveling, mostlystaying in spring or summer time
, sometimes fall, but never inwinter.
I had forgot how great it is inthe Nordic countries in the
winter and you're like thinking,oh, I can do it, it's fun,
we're together with friends, butI could feel the emotional
(49:09):
drain.
And it's first after one and ahalf months now, in the hotter
climate and sun, that I feelgenuinely happy again.
No, seriously.
Yasmin (49:20):
I hear you.
Jesper Conrad (49:22):
If you're ever dreaming and thinking like oh,
maybe you can do one month, buta winter we did a winter.
Cecilie Conrad (49:28):
Yeah, we did a month.
We were in England also Verybrave.
Jesper Conrad (49:34):
Back to your steps.
Back to your steps.
Andy (49:38):
That was a big catalyst, but there's a lot of things
behind that and the one thingthat I would say a big driver.
One thing to think about is alittle bit what we discussed
before it.
It's time, isn't it?
It's time you, you have acertain lifetime on this, on
this planet and, um, you haveand you don't know how long
(49:59):
that's going to be.
You have a certain time withyour children.
You don't know how long that'sgoing to be.
So what do you want to do withthat time?
You've got choices.
You can choose what to do withthat time.
You can spend it wherever youwant, but can you choose to make
the best of that time?
What do you really want to do?
Do you want to spend that timewith your children as they're
(50:19):
growing up, and have thatfreedom to do that every day and
experience that wonderfulnessof your children growing up, and
with your partner?
That's a choice you can make.
So that's what drove it for methinking about.
You know what's our time?
It's it's a limited time.
It's hopefully a long time, butit's limited.
Everything is limited and whatdo I want to do with that
(50:40):
limited time that I have?
Yasmin (50:43):
yes, and I would like to add to that exactly Actually I
was going to say somethingsimilar because I think that in
our culture we don't talk aboutdeath and dying or the end of
our life very much or at all.
It's like this we're alwaysgoing to be productive and then
by the end we get to enjoy thefruits of time, which is pension
(51:07):
and so on, the fruits of, youknow, time, which is pension and
so on.
And I think for me it's been aprocess, getting to know myself
and my own mortality more.
That's actually been thebiggest factor.
So it's similar to what you'resaying, andy, that knowing and
understanding that we're nothere forever, and that has
(51:29):
helped me to play more and takegreater risks, I suppose,
because I know that there are noguarantees of tomorrow even.
But we live in a culture wherewe have been sort of conditioned
to believe that we can just goon and on and make plans for
years to, you know, in thefuture.
(51:49):
We don't know if we're evergoing to reach that.
So I think when you reallystart to deeply understand that
I think it's a lifetime processI'm not done with it yet but
when you start looking at thatmore deeply, I think that will
help you navigate the choices inlife and maybe also help you to
(52:12):
follow that inner voice that weall have.
I mean, of course, that canlook different for each and
every one.
Not everyone wants to go on acrazy adventure.
For some people, they mightwant to deepen their life where
they already are, which I thinkit's an adventure in itself too
or want to travel, like you youguys are, for instance.
(52:32):
So I think there's no one, ofcourse, no one thing.
We have our own callings andpurposes here in life, and I
think that's also whatself-directed education is about
, I feel, is to know yourselfand to get to know yourself and
be able to follow that innercalling that you have, and
everything should just really beabout supporting that and not
(52:55):
about somebody else's dream orsomebody else's calling.
Cecilie Conrad (52:57):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, just do it.
It's the short version, rightyeah?
Jesper Conrad (53:06):
exactly no.
No, the respect of the time.
I'm sorry.
Cecilie Conrad (53:11):
But really it is .
I mean, time is there's notgoing to be any better time.
It's not going to get easier ifthe kids get older or you know.
Somehow at some point you haveto make a decision and make that
choice and do something else,if that's what's calling.
Yasmin (53:31):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (53:32):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (53:33):
For people who want to find the project you're
involved in.
Is there a website address?
How do they find you?
Yasmin (53:46):
Yes, so we have a few different ones.
Satva Land is the retreatcenter and community hub site.
We can share all the links withyou if you like.
And then we have some socialmedia links to the learning
group and the learning co-op andto Satva Land itself so people
(54:07):
can take a look if they like andif they want to come and visit
they can just contact us.
We also just had a familyretreat on our first family
retreat, our first retreat fullstop, and Sattva Land's first
family retreat, which wasInteresting, it was amazing.
Jesper Conrad (54:28):
So, Jasmine and Andy.
It was a really big pleasureand I was glad to explore the
subject with you and unpack someof them.
Thanks a lot for your time.
Yasmin (54:40):
Thank you so much for having us.
It's been such a pleasure.
We could have continued talkingfor much longer.
Cecilie Conrad (54:47):
Yeah, we could definitely.
Yasmin (54:49):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (54:50):
Thank you.
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