Ever wondered what life could look like if you broke free from the conventional 9-5?
David Cole and his family sold their home in Chicago in 2019 and haven’t stopped moving since. Cecilie and Jesper talk with him about how they made the shift from occasional travellers to full-time nomads.
"I think what stopped us the most was mindset," David reveals, reflecting on their journey from dreaming to doing. After years of passionate but occasional travel, they finally made the leap—starting with house-sitting across the US before boarding a 22-day cruise to Singapore and continuing through Southeast Asia. What began as a shared love for exploration evolved into a complete lifestyle redesign that prioritizes presence, connection, and curiosity. This isn’t about escaping; it’s about deciding how to live and taking the next step—even if it’s not perfect.
🔗 Connect with David Cole
- https://ouroffbeatlife.com
- http://www.facebook.com/ouroffbeatlife
- https://www.instagram.com/ouroffbeatlife
- https://www.youtube.com/@ouroffbeatlife
- https://www.tiktok.com/@ouroffbeatlife
- https://open.spotify.com/show/30a99rdTO47PInn0zw6HMy
🗓️ Recorded April 29th, 2025. 📍 Budapest, Hungary
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jesper Conrad (00:00):
Today we're together with David Cole and we
will swap podcasts where we willfirst talk with David and then
afterwards he will talk with us.
So we will recommend you go outand listen to David's podcast.
We will be out a little laterthan ours, but once it is we'll
put the links in the show notes.
So first of all, welcome, david.
(00:20):
Thank you very much.
Cecilie Conrad (00:22):
We were put together by Rachel, who is
running the World SchoolClubhouse, because we both are
nomadic and have children andare part of this community, and
you were reaching out to her toget ideas about who to talk to
on your podcast and I thought,hey, wait a minute.
We do a lot of podcasts onunschooling it.
(00:50):
We do a lot of podcasts onunschooling, but the freedom
life is very much about alsochoosing other ways of doing
things differently.
Quote, unquote and are you partof both actually?
David Cole (00:59):
yeah, both, because we do unschooling primarily.
We've put our son into someonline schooling as well to give
him some structure at times,but mostly it's been a lot of
unschooling.
Our whole second season was notonly the interviews but we did
a whole series on different waysof world schooling from
homeschooling to road schoolingand even world schooling.
(01:21):
So it's just a cool littlebunch of 15, 20 minute episodes
on our thoughts on what itactually is, so you probably
enjoy that too, since that'syour whole gig.
Cecilie Conrad (01:30):
Why don't we start from the beginning?
Where are you from?
Why and when did you leave?
What's up with your setup as afamily?
David Cole (01:42):
Okay, so we left a little bit after.
From what I understand you guysdid, we left in 2019.
And so we sold our house inJune of 19 in Chicago and
decided that we were going totry to make house sitting a part
of our world, school andadventure.
So we did some house sitsacross the US until we got on
(02:06):
our cruise out of LA to go toSingapore.
So that was our way of gettingacross the ocean no jet lag.
Cecilie Conrad (02:14):
How is that?
I'm going to interfere with theshort version.
I'm curious.
I think it looks like these bigfloating balls.
It looks like these bigfloating walls.
David Cole (02:26):
In a way it is.
Yeah, it's just like a gianthotel.
Yeah, it's fun.
That was our first cruise, bythe way 20, 22 days at sea.
Cecilie Conrad (02:38):
Well, walk into the unknown Exactly.
David Cole (02:44):
So we crossed the ocean in comfort.
I we got to singapore for aculture shock, obviously it's.
I was really surprised thateverybody spoke english.
I mean, I knew it was thenational language but being from
america, you just like you,always assume nobody speaks
english when you travel and soyou get those little assumptions
broken right away as soon as weget there.
But then we only spent a coupleof days in Singapore because it
(03:06):
was so expensive.
We went over to Indonesia,which was our first goal anyway,
because we wanted to go to Bali, meet up with some of the
groups, the homeschooling groupsthere, and then head out to
Komodo Island and did that.
We did a couple of days outthere.
That's how we really got gotstarted.
And then we came back or wewent over to malaysia, settled
(03:26):
down for a few months to rest,recuperate and start working
again on the road, since I wentmonths and months without
working for the first beginningof our journey david, I would
like to go even further back.
Jesper Conrad (03:42):
Why did you as a family decide to pull the plug?
What happened in your life?
Had it been a long time dreamor was it something sudden?
Because many people they arelike you know dreaming of it.
When they're on a vacation,they're like oh, there's never
need to stop, I could just stayon.
But life on the road is not avacation, it is still life.
(04:02):
There's everyday chores,there's work.
There's everyday chores,there's work.
There's family, there'scleaning, doing the laundry, all
those things that is part ofeveryday life.
David Cole (04:12):
Ours kind of was an unfolding thing, because when
Brody and I got married, wealready knew we wanted to travel
.
Travel is in her background andwe ended up having a wedding
over in the Bahamas.
We want to make travel part ofour lives and I jokingly say
that she bought me a sailboatfor my birthday this one year.
It just happened that we closedon it the day after my birthday
(04:32):
.
So we had our sailboat inChicago.
We traveled around the lake alot.
We were going to take it outinto the ocean, sail around, and
we were fixing it up.
Then our little man came alongalong and things got hectic.
It was harder to work on theboats and get things done, so we
ended up selling the boats andscrapping that part of the dream
(04:53):
and a few years later we werejust planning you know, let's go
for a long trip and see how wedo so.
He was 18 months old.
We went to Cambodia, where weare right now.
He was 18 months old.
We went to Cambodia, where weare right now, and we went to
Cambodia, thailand and,spontaneously, china on the way
back and just had an absoluteblast.
(05:15):
Found all right, we're doing itwith a kid in tow.
This is awesome.
So we spent the next couple ofyears figuring out well, can we
logistically make enough moneyto do it?
We both had physical jobs atthe time.
I was managing a call center,my wife was in human resources
at the peak of her career,managing offices all across the
(05:36):
country, and we just couldn'tfigure that we could do either
of those online.
One of mine that I was doing atthe time was I was teaching
online college through ColoradoTechnical University.
I found, oh, that's really cool, I can teach that way.
And I ended up getting anEnglish teaching job through a
friend of mine and I'm like, oh,wow, well, we're able to live
(05:57):
in Chicago and my teachingincome is doing decent.
Brody had just lost her job atthat point, and so we were like,
if we can afford to live on mysalary teaching in Chicago,
still we can do it anywhere.
So let's just figure out how tosell everything and get on the
road, and we'll figure outBrody's working situation later.
(06:18):
And so that's kind of where itended up going.
She took a job she didn'treally want, but we knew we
could bank the money and withthe plan that she would quit in
a year, and that's what we endedup doing, and we sold our
property and we hit the road.
So, to answer your questionshort, yes, it's always been a
(06:41):
plan, but it took us six years,counting our marriage 12 years
really to get to that point.
Cecilie Conrad (06:49):
But another short version that I really like
that I hear from your answer iswhy did you pull the plug?
Because you're passionate abouttraveling.
David Cole (07:00):
Basically, it's more important than other things,
yeah, makes sense.
Yeah, brody and I, we didn'thave kids right away.
We waited what was it?
Six years, because we wanted toenjoy ourselves and our
marriage.
And we ended up taking onedomestic trip across the US
every year, as well as oneinternational trip down to
usually down to Mexico everyyear.
And so we were like, well,we're doing this, we're doing
(07:22):
this, we're doing this, it'sgreat.
And then, during that wholeprocess of trying to figure out
how to work online, we met someother families who were doing it
and who were also teaching atthe same teaching company I was
teaching with and we pickedtheir brains, saw their budget
and they were a larger familythan us, who actually like more
extravagant things than we do,so they live a little bit more
(07:46):
less shoestring than we do.
And I was like, if they canmake it happen, we can make it
happen.
Jesper Conrad (07:48):
And we figured it out how was your dream versus
reality has something surprisedyou.
Is there places where you'relike this is not the dream life
we dreamt of.
This is way different.
What are the differencesbetween sitting at home in a job
where you're like, oh, I wantto travel, and then all of a
sudden doing it full time?
David Cole (08:11):
Well, yeah, I had some of those same expectations
that some people have, that, oh,you're going to be on your
vacation all the time, and thenobviously realizing no, you're
not on vacation all the time,and I say this all the time to
people is that, yeah, I work, Ido the same things every day
(08:32):
that I did in Chicago, but I'mjust doing it in a different
location, and instead of goingout and going to the Sears Tower
or going to Navy Pier, I'mgoing to Angkor Wat or I'm going
to the Great Wall of China,depending on where I'm at Machu
Picchu, it's just where yourlocation is, so you're able to
do the different things asthough you were a local, still
living your normal life.
It's pretty cool.
Cecilie Conrad (08:54):
I think there is this element of the nomadic
life.
It can be a little bit hard toexplain, though.
It's quite obvious that you canleave your home base, you can
leave the culture and countrythat you come from, but you
(09:15):
cannot leave yourself.
You are coming along with allof your stuff in your backpack
and all of the tasks that lifehave your backpack and all of
the tasks that life have.
It's not like you don't need toget dental work done or you
don't need to do your absworkout or you don't need to
find some way of takingresponsibility to educate your
(09:38):
children and yourself.
You have to make money, youhave to wash clothes.
So the not on vacation hashtagis a good one.
It really resonates.
And I think the great thing ishow this just do.
(09:59):
You say you've bended a neon.
In English, in our language, ifsomething is very clear and
very right there, it's bend aNeon, like the ads in the 80s.
So this is how life is, even ifyou're not nomadic that you're
going to be there with yourbackpack and your chores and all
the things, and you need tocope with that no matter what.
(10:21):
But I feel like this making,recreating what life is
everywhere we go just makes itso clear you need to do these
things, you need to deal withthese things.
This is what life is, no matterwhat, and you have to love it
and stay present in it.
And yeah, then the fun part iswe get to walk the Great Wall of
(10:43):
China.
David Cole (10:44):
Yeah, I mean it is we get to walk.
Great Wall of China yeah, Imean it is.
It's amazing that so manypeople around the world
everybody has their own sitesthat they take for granted.
There's a waterfall that wefound in the middle of nowhere
in North Carolina that thelocals are like yeah, we just go
there on the weekend, it's justthe local park for us, but it
was amazing for us.
But again, they take it forgranted.
(11:05):
Us Chicagoans, we take ourstuff for granted as well.
There's a lot of Chicagoans whojust don't go to all the sites
because they're just there,they're just part of the city,
and the same thing goes foranywhere in the world.
And now we get to have thatopportunity to see it.
Our son gets that opportunityto experience all these things
growing up as though they'rejust part of his backyard.
(11:28):
It's cool.
Cecilie Conrad (11:32):
I'm thinking about the passion element.
You know we asked you why doyou do this?
Why did you choose to do it?
And I hear a passion fortraveling and it resonates
because we're crazy travelers aswell and in a way, I'm curious
because I'm not sure Iunderstand myself.
So maybe we can mirror herewhat is it about this?
(11:55):
What is it about this thatreally makes so much sense and
keeps?
You've been going for a longtime, We've been going for a
long time.
Why can't we stop?
Why is it so interesting?
What's around the next corner,behind the next?
David Cole (12:11):
mountain.
Yeah, we keep kind of talkingabout well, what if we settle
down?
Where would you want to settledown?
And I keep thinking, well, whydo I want to settle down?
I haven't seen it all yet and Iwas the reluctant one.
I was the reluctant one to getgoing in the first place.
I told her I have to have thismuch amount of the bank in case
something goes wrong I have tomeet these criteria before we go
.
She was like let's just go,let's just go, I don't care
(12:34):
about our stuff.
She's more into it about thehistory and the people that we
see and meet.
And I'm, my son and I arereally about a lot of the
animals.
We love animals, we like thescenery, we love the people.
I like the crafts that we see.
I just sometimes can spendhours just looking at the
(12:55):
craftsmanship of people aroundthe world and seeing how it's
different from what I sawgrowing up that type of thing.
So we all have our owninterests and what we love about
this and that keeps us goingand like we keep trying to say,
all right, well, where do youwant to settle down?
What would be ideal for you?
And we all have our own thingson that as well.
(13:16):
So it's really cool that we'retrying to find our own path
together.
Jesper Conrad (13:21):
David, the people out there dreaming listening to
two nomadic families being likeoh, we want this life for
ourselves.
Where would you suggest theystart?
What are the hurdles you needto pass?
What is it that is stoppingmost people in your dreams?
What stopped you doing it inthe start?
David Cole (13:41):
The thing that stopped us the most was, I think
, early on mindset thinking thatwe had to have the perfect job
to do it.
And now that I've interviewed,I think, over 30 people and
we've met way more than thattraveling everybody has a
different job.
You don't have to be an onlineteacher.
You don't have to be astockbroker.
(14:03):
You don't have to be whatever.
Have to be a stockbroker.
You don't have to be whatever.
Some of these people can havemore money during their travels,
but that mindset of I have tohave it this way can hold people
back from getting out there anddoing it.
I say the way we did it.
Doing that two-week big tripwith the child in tow really
(14:24):
showed us that it was possibleand that we could make things
happen and that the world wasway more affordable than I
thought it was.
So living in America things area lot more expensive.
I can live everywhere else forway cheaper.
This giant two-bedroomapartment is only $350 a month
US and it comes with two polesit's a question of looking at
(14:47):
our ideas about what blocks it.
Cecilie Conrad (14:53):
It has to have this before I can do that.
I've heard a lot of people whowant to change their career and
maybe do something radicallydifferent with their lives.
And lots of them say I need towrite a book about this first
and then I could start doingstuff.
And what I really hear them sayit's a bit like people with
addiction you know, I will stopdrinking, and all I hear is you
(15:15):
keep drinking until eastermonday.
You know, just like I need towrite a book first.
It's like, oh, you don't wantto do the thing, you want to
have something stopping you andand I think we all have these
mental blocks if we are to dothe thing, you want to have
something stopping you and and Ithink we all have these mental
blocks if we are to do somethingthat seems a little risky or
new or harder to do, then it canbe really nice to convince
(15:39):
ourselves that something big andcomplicated is getting in the
way so that we have to resolvethat.
Because this big andcomplicated thing we can
understand, like getting anotherjob you have a job, you want
another job, that's doable,whereas selling everything and
have a backpack and a child onyour hip in China, that's a
(16:00):
little bit further away fromyour comfort zone than you can
actually handle.
So maybe, looking at that, ifyou feel a passion to start
traveling full time.
What are the things I'm puttingup here and are they real?
Questioning, that, I think, isa very good idea.
David Cole (16:21):
Yeah, I mean questioning your preconceived
notions is big.
Listen to other people'sstories, which is why podcasts
like yours and mine exist.
Give people that opportunity tohear these types of things,
that things are possible outthere.
Like the first episode of ourpodcast this season, we talked
with the people that we met inMexico at a World School Hub
(16:43):
pop-up that we hosted and theywere thinking about becoming
nomads.
Most everybody at that pop-upwere traveling, vacationing
families, some of whom wereconsidering traveling full-time.
This couple, kevin and his wifethey decided that they would
talk to us.
(17:03):
They picked our brains while wewere on site there, just like
we did to that other family thatwe met in Mexico when we were
trying to figure things out.
They just picked our brains andthen we got on WhatsApp.
We just talked for months andthey finally decided to bite the
bullet and do the whole processgo and their story is really
cool because it mirrors mine.
It mirrors a lot of thefamilies I talked to out there
(17:27):
and I think it mirrors the samething that you and I are talking
about here mindset and breakingthrough those barriers that you
have, those preconceivednotions.
That's really what you got todo and, I think, the only way to
do that is to listen to otherpeople's stories and resonate
with someone.
Jesper Conrad (17:45):
I think one of the reasons people think
traveling is expensive isbecause they compare it to how
they have traveled in their life, which is often on vacation,
which is this compressed pieceof time that just needs to be
the best time of the year andtherefore you go out and spend
enormous amounts of money.
One of the projects I worked onI talked with a guy there and
(18:06):
they are going to Japan and Iasked him about that budget and
I was devastated for how muchmoney they would use on a two
week vacation.
I'm like that is full timetraveling for four or five
months you're talking about.
I didn't say that to himbecause I was like, okay, yeah,
all good, okay, just thinking Iunderstand it if it's the
(18:29):
one-in-a-lifetime vacation, butit's unfortunate that people
compare the full-time travelingwith the vacations where they
use so much money on a week ortwo, because that's not the life
all of us are living.
Most of us are living everydaylives with everyday economy,
(18:49):
just in new, for us exoticplaces.
Right now we are in Budapestand it's, for me, exotic.
It's a beautiful city, I lovethe street art and we're living
here for a month and it'sfantastic, but it doesn't cost
much more than living in anapartment in Copenhagen for a
month.
David Cole (19:09):
Yeah, and I think you're right on that, because a
lot of people do compare it totheir vacations.
And the other thing aboutvacations is you're kind of
living a double life.
You're paying your rent backhome plus you're paying that
week's worth of rent, which isactually like a month's worth of
your mortgage back home whileyou're on your trip.
It's double, if not more, thanliving your normal, regular
everyday life going on avacation.
(19:31):
Doing this is you can cut theother part out, whether you
decide to sell your home orwhether you're going to rent it
while you're on your travels.
It's up to you.
You can have different ways ofdoing this.
Cecilie Conrad (19:42):
But this is the budget part of the reality here
and I think it's very importantto talk about, because there's a
lot of misconception about how,what your budget would be if
you went full time traveling.
But I think there is also it'svery important.
We meet a lot of people who say, oh, I wish I could do what you
(20:03):
do.
Oh, you have so much freedom.
It sounds amazing and it is.
It is, but at the same time,it's not a vacation.
It's not like packing your bags, taking your favorite things,
having all the time in the worldto prepare.
I've read the book, bought anew set of flip-flops or
(20:25):
whatever swimming costume.
You're really excited about thenew color and leaving
everything behind.
You don't have to think aboutthe insurance thing you have to
file, you're not.
You don't have any dentistappointments.
You don't have any work things.
Maybe you don't even read youremails.
You can forget about whateveryour sick mother, or maybe you
(20:48):
can't forget that exact thing.
But whatever, it is lots ofreal stuff from real life.
You leave it behind for a week,two, three weeks, whatever your
time frame, and the feel theshoulders come down, you're like
and it's so stimulating.
You see new things and youdon't have to do all the
annoying stuff.
It's so nice I get that.
(21:10):
I haven't had it for many yearsbecause I live a different life.
I have no vacations, there areno pauses, it's not.
I'm not leaving my life behind,I'm bringing it with me all the
time.
I don't have a home base, Idon't.
I have my insurance policyproblems in my laptop, in my
backpack, and it's my problem.
No matter where I go, I have notime to prepare for the next
(21:32):
trip, because what, where wouldthat how?
I'm always on a trip, so, and Ineed to get dental done.
We need to get a cast off.
Our son's arm in two days fromnow broke his arm in one country
, I had to have a checkup in thesecond country and now we're
whatever.
These things are real and Ithink it's important, if we have
(21:56):
listeners who are flirting withthe idea of going nomadic, to
really you know, yes, it'scheaper than you should think
and it can be very cheap if youchoose that, but it's not
vacation, it's not this peace ofmind instant thing that you
(22:17):
have to work for the peace ofmind.
David Cole (22:20):
That is true.
Work for the peace of mind?
That is true, yeah, that peaceof mind.
I know a lot of people whotravel that are well off, they
have the money to do whateverand they have everything set up
for them.
But for the majority of thetravelers they are.
They're living, like you say,day to day.
They've got their everything inthe backpack.
Their insurance policy is inthe backpack, their whole life.
This computer here is my life,everything on it is needed, my
(22:43):
backpack.
I don't travel with extra,extra things that I don't really
need, other than one or twofrivolous things that, just
because I want that and you haveto have those, make those
sacrifices for the type oflifestyle that you do want.
But yeah, it's.
But yeah, it's living yournormal life plus this other
(23:04):
thing and another thing on topof it.
So, yeah, you don't always havea vacation Not really.
I like to say sometimes that,oh, this place feels like a
vacation, but then I'm stillgoing back to the work and
working that evening with all mystudents.
Cecilie Conrad (23:18):
I like to use the word adventure.
I think it's a better wordbecause I'm not vacating from
anything, but I'm exploring.
Jesper Conrad (23:27):
David, I would love to talk about freedom
because it is a big thing for us.
It is among the reasons we aretraveling to be able to choose
what we do, when we do it, howwe do it, without external
forces you can say deciding overour lives, and by this I also
(23:52):
mean having a kid in a school.
Because your kid is in a school, you are set to be in a certain
place in a certain time.
You can only, as a family,travel in certain periods.
You only have time togetherwith your kids in outside school
hours or in vacations and theweekends.
That is also freedom.
(24:13):
So it's not like only freedomfrom a state.
It is freedom from office.
It is freedom fromcircumstances that control your
life in a way bigger fashionthat you can phantom when you
just think oh, you want to befree.
No, I want to be free from theconstraints of modern life that
(24:35):
ties me down in ways I hadn'tseen when I lived it, life that
ties me down in ways I hadn'tseen when I lived it.
So this is a long-windedquestion, or way to a question
where my question is what isfreedom for you and why is it
important?
David Cole (24:50):
I've always tried to live my life a little bit
outside the norm.
I consider normal to beabnormal.
Norm I consider normal to beabnormal.
You know, nobody's the same,nobody's cookie cutter, but like
I as a state, as a stay-at-homedad.
I was a stay-at-home dad withmy son from the time he was born
until they he left, or we lefton the road, and then we both
(25:11):
became the co-parenting uh, allfull-time because she was
working when we were in Chicago.
So I found that I alwaysinserted myself into his life.
I was part of that.
Whether he had to go to school,I started helping out at the
school when he had a field trip.
I was on every field trip, butthose were my choices because I
(25:32):
wanted to spend my life with mychild and so that carries
through into my travels and whatI want to do.
I don't want to work at asit-down job anymore.
I fight that.
If I have to try to find it, Iwant to find something that's
interesting to me, which is whyI teach English to kids online.
(25:52):
It's really interesting to me.
The time is flexible.
I make my own hours for themost part.
I'm very creative, so I do aYouTube stuff as well, the
podcast is another way for me tobe very social, and I started
it because I wanted a chance toreally continue to talk to
people and be social in that way, as well as help people out and
share some really importantinformation.
(26:13):
So all these go back to helpingme keep that sense of freedom
and do what I want, be where Iwant in the world.
Sometimes it feels a littleselfish that I get to live this
way, but that comes withthrowing off the stuff that you
have in civilization Not normalcivilization, if you like to say
(26:34):
that with air quotes.
Jesper Conrad (26:38):
What did you think made you that way?
Upbringing or philosophy?
David Cole (26:43):
I was always an odd one growing up.
So I am adhd, so a littleneurodivergent in that realm, so
I've always had that littlebeing on the outside type thing
and having a little bit of adifferent thinking pattern and
always having to be aware ofthat when I'm in situations
because you're not, then you'rejust like all over the place and
(27:04):
you're wacky.
So and I usually when growingup chose to be wacky, be a
little all over the place andnot really rein it in.
As you get older you learn torein it in.
But I just decided I don'talways, I don't really want to
have to do that if I don't wantto need to and just live myself
as myself and I think that hasinfluenced me and accepting that
(27:27):
ADHD is who I am, not using itas ever as really as a crutch
and just using it as this is mypersonality, this is who I am
and I'm going to gonna live withit I think the challenging
normal is another interestingthing to explore.
Cecilie Conrad (27:45):
I'm curious and I've been thinking during this
conversation feels like usuallyI talk a lot.
This time I had time to thinkalso about the what is it we're
leaving behind and what is itwe're bringing with us.
And when we challenge normaland say what does it really mean
(28:08):
we're letting go?
You said something down theline of letting go of the modern
culture, something like that.
I can't remember your exactwording and I'm thinking, yeah,
but I kind of need internet.
Of the modern culture,something like that.
I can't remember your exactwording and I'm thinking, yeah,
but I kind of need internet andI want toothpaste and I'm
sitting on a sofa, I eat forplates, I cook my food on an
(28:29):
induction thing.
I'm not leaving all of it.
I might be engaging with it ina different way.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Can we explore that idea ofwhat is it we're challenging
with our question mark aroundthe normal thing?
David Cole (28:52):
Yeah, because I do.
I was raised my dad liked tohave stuff.
He always had the highesttechnology, the newest gadget,
the best TVs.
So I grew up with that mindsetthat the stuff is great.
And so I am a littlematerialistic in that way and I
do like luxury.
I like a soft bed.
I don't always like it when wehave to have a hard bed because
(29:14):
that's the local place.
That was a real big problemwhen we were in Japan.
I had to get used to it.
Every bed is hard and thebreaking free of that mindset
has helped me sometimes toreally understand that.
You know, all right, I don'talways have to have the latest,
the newest thing.
My computer now is 16 years oldI think 12 years old and it's
(29:39):
still going great.
But I am planning on upgradingbecause I have to, because it
doesn't take Windows 11, andit's not going to be security
supported.
So now I'm only upgrading itbecause I have to, but not
because of materialistic wantsthat I think were ingrained in
me for the longest period oftime, and that type of thing Is
that taking us down to the rightroad that you're thinking?
Cecilie Conrad (30:00):
Well, yeah, it is questioning.
I'm just wondering, you know,what is it really?
We're questioning?
Because it becomes a little Idon't know superficial to say,
oh, we just question normal,Because a lot of normal we
actually do take with us.
The thing is, maybe we questionit and then we more or less
consciously choose which partsmake sense for us and resonate
(30:22):
with who we want to be.
As you said, I don't want to bethat materialistic.
It's not that interesting andimportant to me because other
things are, and I think thiswhole sifting through values and
sifting through options anddoing the work of figuring out
what makes sense, living by thequestion mark more of what we're
(30:45):
doing than rebelling againstmainstream there's a lot of
mainstream in the nomadiccommunity actually.
Jesper Conrad (30:51):
I think what I really love, and some of the aha
moments I have had, is doingthe math on different things.
For example, I did the math onhow because we chose school for
our first child and we have fourchildren and there is age
difference on them I looked athow long time we as parents
(31:15):
would be connected to thatschool, how many years, and what
it meant for the rest of ourlife choice of house, choice of
work, etc.
That thinking about there's achoice here.
How does it affect the totalityof your life?
I find that very interestingand I like going down these
paths and I like doing the mathon it and being like, oh, that
(31:37):
was like.
I can't remember it was 20years.
Yeah, it's something crazystupid.
It was a lifetime.
Based on that, our oldestdaughter, who is now 26, we put
her in that school and ouryoungest son is now 13, so he
would still be there.
It was just crazy.
The same I did I got hold oflike a media usage in denmark
(31:59):
showing how much media peopleconsume per day back then, and
then I put this together withpeople questioning or being like
, oh, I want more vacation, Iwant more spare time and less
your time and then I did themath of how much less your time
do you actually have in yourlife.
If you go to work eight hours aday, you maybe have half an
(32:23):
hour to an hour commute.
Every way, you need to do a lotof stuff that isn't normally
put into the world.
That's like leisure time Now we.
Then I just looked at the mediaconsumption per day and I'm
like, oh, if I cut that out, Iwill have like three or four
years more vacation in my lifethan many other people.
So I like doing these things andit's the questioning how we
(32:46):
choose to live our life.
It is, for me, questioningnormality and mainstream, not
because it's normal andmainstream, but because I don't
accept to live in a certain waywithout having tried to think it
through.
Why is it important to do itlike this without having tried
to think it through?
Why is it important to do itlike this?
And I find these things reallyfun.
(33:06):
I also at one point did themath of how much longer, in some
ways, I am married to my wifethan people who go to work every
day.
Cecilie Conrad (33:17):
If you had gone to work.
Maybe don't judge other peoplebut your choice of staying home
instead of staying in an office.
How many more hours did thatgive?
Jesper Conrad (33:24):
you.
Yeah, so I've got so many morehours living together with my
wife and my children by changingmy life around to staying at
home and working from home, andthat is just fascinating to me.
And it's like very simple math.
It's just multiplying stuff.
I'm not a math genius in anyway.
It's just looking at it, beingcurious and saying oh, and then
(33:48):
seeing the numbers and beinglike, okay, I can see this is a
fun way to live.
David Cole (33:54):
Yeah, okay, we've now been traveling as long.
I think, yeah, this is going on.
My son's going to be.
He was six when we left andhe's going to be 13 now, so half
his life has been traveling andthat first half my wife worked
full time.
I was a stay at home parent.
She felt like she never gottime with him as a little one at
(34:15):
that age bedtime.
So a lot of times she's cominghome from work and with the
commute in Chicago, sometimesshe was getting home after I put
him to bed.
So she and with the commute inChicago, sometimes she was
getting home after I put him tobed.
So there were some days whereshe never, ever actually got to
see him, which was really sadfor her and it's a sore subject
at the time.
Now she's got all the time inthe world and sometimes I think
she's his favorite parent.
(34:36):
She gets that extra love andextra attention that she didn't
have for all those years.
And yeah, if you do the math onit, it's crazy, because it's not
just oh, I go to work for eighthours a day.
No, I also have commutes andthis.
And what are you missing duringthose eight hours of the day
that you're at the office?
It wasn't just her time notwith him.
(34:58):
She and I had to reconnect on atotally different level.
She and I had to reconnect on atotally different level,
spending this much extra timetogether now that we were both
not working anymore.
We were in the same house witheach other, sometimes studio
apartments, or not to mentionthe whole two and a half year
drive that we did in SouthAmerica, where we were in a car,
(35:19):
all day, together, every day,sometimes camping, and and just
this tight, close-knit familyliving for a couple of years.
So I do, I get your idea ofdoing the math on it.
I actually now I want to go dothe math.
Cecilie Conrad (35:33):
Yeah, it is fascinating that be the two
recommendations from this.
Maybe, or two of the takeawaysthat could be from this podcast.
Go do the math and fun stuff.
You know, do some randommultiplication on how you spend
your life.
And then the other one pleaseenjoy the question mark.
When you question things, yourealize what's really important.
(35:55):
It's I was thinking about whenyou talked about freedom before,
how freedom for us and freedomfor you, I suppose, is one of
the big freedoms is to belocation independent.
But I think some people, forsome people, freedom would be to
have a really awesome location,not have to think about it, not
have to figure out language andlogistics and where to buy the
(36:19):
organic zucchini tomorrow, allall these things they are set so
we have freedom to do whateveris important for that person,
which is totally fine.
It's questioning what kind offreedom do I need that gives the
real freedom to choose what isimportant.
Did that make?
David Cole (36:39):
sense.
This is true, yes, yeah,everybody's got their own sense
of freedom for them, their ownsense of wants and needs.
Yeah, and in questioning thequestion they can get there.
Cecilie Conrad (36:51):
And you figure out what it is.
Sometimes you can in somephases of life, live a little
mindlessly doing what theneighbor does, doing what the
norm is doing, normal, whateverthat means.
But if we start questioningthings, then we figure out what
we really want and then we canget it, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (37:10):
David, for people listening to this podcast.
They want to know who you are,listen to your podcast and
hopefully also listen to theepisode you will air with us.
So please plug away.
How do people get hold of you?
Where do they find the podcast?
David Cole (37:28):
The podcast is on all the platforms out there.
We do generally do it as avideo podcast, but you can get
it as audio as well throughSpotify and Apple and all that
we're on.
If you go to find our blog atouroffbeatlifecom
ouroffbeatlifecom, you'll findaccess to the podcast there a
lot of Brody's old blog posts.
(37:48):
She's really great at talkingonline, trying to provide as
much helpful content as possibleon there.
But if you want and you'reinterested in the podcast, it's
available as well through thesite as well as on those other
platforms out there.
And we're even trying to do moreand more with YouTube as we go
along, as well as on those otherplatforms out there.
And we're even trying to domore and more with youtube as we
go along, as we find time toget those episodes or those
(38:11):
videos edited and put on thereof our travels.
So we try to show some reallycool places.
We've been what you should dowhen you go there, like my most
recent one is.
I literally just did a six 10minute walkthrough of this
apartment and what you can getin Cambodia for $350 a month.
So yeah, again, our offbeatlife.
Cecilie Conrad (38:32):
We'll put it in the show notes.
Jesper Conrad (38:34):
Perfect.
Thank you.
It has been a pleasure hangingout with you today.
It really has.
David Cole (38:40):
Thank you.
It's been awesome hanging outwith you all as well.
Today we're together with David Cole and we
will swap podcasts where we willfirst talk with David and then
afterwards he will talk with us.
So we will recommend you go outand listen to David's podcast.
We will be out a little laterthan ours, but once it is we'll
put the links in the show notes.
So first of all, welcome, david.
(00:20):
Thank you very much.
Cecilie Conrad (00:22):
We were put together by Rachel, who is
running the World SchoolClubhouse, because we both are
nomadic and have children andare part of this community, and
you were reaching out to her toget ideas about who to talk to
on your podcast and I thought,hey, wait a minute.
We do a lot of podcasts onunschooling it.
(00:50):
We do a lot of podcasts onunschooling, but the freedom
life is very much about alsochoosing other ways of doing
things differently.
Quote, unquote and are you partof both actually?
David Cole (00:59):
yeah, both, because we do unschooling primarily.
We've put our son into someonline schooling as well to give
him some structure at times,but mostly it's been a lot of
unschooling.
Our whole second season was notonly the interviews but we did
a whole series on different waysof world schooling from
homeschooling to road schoolingand even world schooling.
(01:21):
So it's just a cool littlebunch of 15, 20 minute episodes
on our thoughts on what itactually is, so you probably
enjoy that too, since that'syour whole gig.
Cecilie Conrad (01:30):
Why don't we start from the beginning?
Where are you from?
Why and when did you leave?
What's up with your setup as afamily?
David Cole (01:42):
Okay, so we left a little bit after.
From what I understand you guysdid, we left in 2019.
And so we sold our house inJune of 19 in Chicago and
decided that we were going totry to make house sitting a part
of our world, school andadventure.
So we did some house sitsacross the US until we got on
(02:06):
our cruise out of LA to go toSingapore.
So that was our way of gettingacross the ocean no jet lag.
Cecilie Conrad (02:14):
How is that?
I'm going to interfere with theshort version.
I'm curious.
I think it looks like these bigfloating balls.
It looks like these bigfloating walls.
David Cole (02:26):
In a way it is.
Yeah, it's just like a gianthotel.
Yeah, it's fun.
That was our first cruise, bythe way 20, 22 days at sea.
Cecilie Conrad (02:38):
Well, walk into the unknown Exactly.
David Cole (02:44):
So we crossed the ocean in comfort.
I we got to singapore for aculture shock, obviously it's.
I was really surprised thateverybody spoke english.
I mean, I knew it was thenational language but being from
america, you just like you,always assume nobody speaks
english when you travel and soyou get those little assumptions
broken right away as soon as weget there.
But then we only spent a coupleof days in Singapore because it
(03:06):
was so expensive.
We went over to Indonesia,which was our first goal anyway,
because we wanted to go to Bali, meet up with some of the
groups, the homeschooling groupsthere, and then head out to
Komodo Island and did that.
We did a couple of days outthere.
That's how we really got gotstarted.
And then we came back or wewent over to malaysia, settled
(03:26):
down for a few months to rest,recuperate and start working
again on the road, since I wentmonths and months without
working for the first beginningof our journey david, I would
like to go even further back.
Jesper Conrad (03:42):
Why did you as a family decide to pull the plug?
What happened in your life?
Had it been a long time dreamor was it something sudden?
Because many people they arelike you know dreaming of it.
When they're on a vacation,they're like oh, there's never
need to stop, I could just stayon.
But life on the road is not avacation, it is still life.
(04:02):
There's everyday chores,there's work.
There's everyday chores,there's work.
There's family, there'scleaning, doing the laundry, all
those things that is part ofeveryday life.
David Cole (04:12):
Ours kind of was an unfolding thing, because when
Brody and I got married, wealready knew we wanted to travel
.
Travel is in her background andwe ended up having a wedding
over in the Bahamas.
We want to make travel part ofour lives and I jokingly say
that she bought me a sailboatfor my birthday this one year.
It just happened that we closedon it the day after my birthday
(04:32):
.
So we had our sailboat inChicago.
We traveled around the lake alot.
We were going to take it outinto the ocean, sail around, and
we were fixing it up.
Then our little man came alongalong and things got hectic.
It was harder to work on theboats and get things done, so we
ended up selling the boats andscrapping that part of the dream
(04:53):
and a few years later we werejust planning you know, let's go
for a long trip and see how wedo so.
He was 18 months old.
We went to Cambodia, where weare right now.
He was 18 months old.
We went to Cambodia, where weare right now, and we went to
Cambodia, thailand and,spontaneously, china on the way
back and just had an absoluteblast.
(05:15):
Found all right, we're doing itwith a kid in tow.
This is awesome.
So we spent the next couple ofyears figuring out well, can we
logistically make enough moneyto do it?
We both had physical jobs atthe time.
I was managing a call center,my wife was in human resources
at the peak of her career,managing offices all across the
(05:36):
country, and we just couldn'tfigure that we could do either
of those online.
One of mine that I was doing atthe time was I was teaching
online college through ColoradoTechnical University.
I found, oh, that's really cool, I can teach that way.
And I ended up getting anEnglish teaching job through a
friend of mine and I'm like, oh,wow, well, we're able to live
(05:57):
in Chicago and my teachingincome is doing decent.
Brody had just lost her job atthat point, and so we were like,
if we can afford to live on mysalary teaching in Chicago,
still we can do it anywhere.
So let's just figure out how tosell everything and get on the
road, and we'll figure outBrody's working situation later.
(06:18):
And so that's kind of where itended up going.
She took a job she didn'treally want, but we knew we
could bank the money and withthe plan that she would quit in
a year, and that's what we endedup doing, and we sold our
property and we hit the road.
So, to answer your questionshort, yes, it's always been a
(06:41):
plan, but it took us six years,counting our marriage 12 years
really to get to that point.
Cecilie Conrad (06:49):
But another short version that I really like
that I hear from your answer iswhy did you pull the plug?
Because you're passionate abouttraveling.
David Cole (07:00):
Basically, it's more important than other things,
yeah, makes sense.
Yeah, brody and I, we didn'thave kids right away.
We waited what was it?
Six years, because we wanted toenjoy ourselves and our
marriage.
And we ended up taking onedomestic trip across the US
every year, as well as oneinternational trip down to
usually down to Mexico everyyear.
And so we were like, well,we're doing this, we're doing
(07:22):
this, we're doing this, it'sgreat.
And then, during that wholeprocess of trying to figure out
how to work online, we met someother families who were doing it
and who were also teaching atthe same teaching company I was
teaching with and we pickedtheir brains, saw their budget
and they were a larger familythan us, who actually like more
extravagant things than we do,so they live a little bit more
(07:46):
less shoestring than we do.
And I was like, if they canmake it happen, we can make it
happen.
Jesper Conrad (07:48):
And we figured it out how was your dream versus
reality has something surprisedyou.
Is there places where you'relike this is not the dream life
we dreamt of.
This is way different.
What are the differencesbetween sitting at home in a job
where you're like, oh, I wantto travel, and then all of a
sudden doing it full time?
David Cole (08:11):
Well, yeah, I had some of those same expectations
that some people have, that, oh,you're going to be on your
vacation all the time, and thenobviously realizing no, you're
not on vacation all the time,and I say this all the time to
people is that, yeah, I work, Ido the same things every day
(08:32):
that I did in Chicago, but I'mjust doing it in a different
location, and instead of goingout and going to the Sears Tower
or going to Navy Pier, I'mgoing to Angkor Wat or I'm going
to the Great Wall of China,depending on where I'm at Machu
Picchu, it's just where yourlocation is, so you're able to
do the different things asthough you were a local, still
living your normal life.
It's pretty cool.
Cecilie Conrad (08:54):
I think there is this element of the nomadic
life.
It can be a little bit hard toexplain, though.
It's quite obvious that you canleave your home base, you can
leave the culture and countrythat you come from, but you
(09:15):
cannot leave yourself.
You are coming along with allof your stuff in your backpack
and all of the tasks that lifehave your backpack and all of
the tasks that life have.
It's not like you don't need toget dental work done or you
don't need to do your absworkout or you don't need to
find some way of takingresponsibility to educate your
(09:38):
children and yourself.
You have to make money, youhave to wash clothes.
So the not on vacation hashtagis a good one.
It really resonates.
And I think the great thing ishow this just do.
(09:59):
You say you've bended a neon.
In English, in our language, ifsomething is very clear and
very right there, it's bend aNeon, like the ads in the 80s.
So this is how life is, even ifyou're not nomadic that you're
going to be there with yourbackpack and your chores and all
the things, and you need tocope with that no matter what.
(10:21):
But I feel like this making,recreating what life is
everywhere we go just makes itso clear you need to do these
things, you need to deal withthese things.
This is what life is, no matterwhat, and you have to love it
and stay present in it.
And yeah, then the fun part iswe get to walk the Great Wall of
(10:43):
China.
David Cole (10:44):
Yeah, I mean it is we get to walk.
Great Wall of China yeah, Imean it is.
It's amazing that so manypeople around the world
everybody has their own sitesthat they take for granted.
There's a waterfall that wefound in the middle of nowhere
in North Carolina that thelocals are like yeah, we just go
there on the weekend, it's justthe local park for us, but it
was amazing for us.
But again, they take it forgranted.
(11:05):
Us Chicagoans, we take ourstuff for granted as well.
There's a lot of Chicagoans whojust don't go to all the sites
because they're just there,they're just part of the city,
and the same thing goes foranywhere in the world.
And now we get to have thatopportunity to see it.
Our son gets that opportunityto experience all these things
growing up as though they'rejust part of his backyard.
(11:28):
It's cool.
Cecilie Conrad (11:32):
I'm thinking about the passion element.
You know we asked you why doyou do this?
Why did you choose to do it?
And I hear a passion fortraveling and it resonates
because we're crazy travelers aswell and in a way, I'm curious
because I'm not sure Iunderstand myself.
So maybe we can mirror herewhat is it about this?
(11:55):
What is it about this thatreally makes so much sense and
keeps?
You've been going for a longtime, We've been going for a
long time.
Why can't we stop?
Why is it so interesting?
What's around the next corner,behind the next?
David Cole (12:11):
mountain.
Yeah, we keep kind of talkingabout well, what if we settle
down?
Where would you want to settledown?
And I keep thinking, well, whydo I want to settle down?
I haven't seen it all yet and Iwas the reluctant one.
I was the reluctant one to getgoing in the first place.
I told her I have to have thismuch amount of the bank in case
something goes wrong I have tomeet these criteria before we go
.
She was like let's just go,let's just go, I don't care
(12:34):
about our stuff.
She's more into it about thehistory and the people that we
see and meet.
And I'm, my son and I arereally about a lot of the
animals.
We love animals, we like thescenery, we love the people.
I like the crafts that we see.
I just sometimes can spendhours just looking at the
(12:55):
craftsmanship of people aroundthe world and seeing how it's
different from what I sawgrowing up that type of thing.
So we all have our owninterests and what we love about
this and that keeps us goingand like we keep trying to say,
all right, well, where do youwant to settle down?
What would be ideal for you?
And we all have our own thingson that as well.
(13:16):
So it's really cool that we'retrying to find our own path
together.
Jesper Conrad (13:21):
David, the people out there dreaming listening to
two nomadic families being likeoh, we want this life for
ourselves.
Where would you suggest theystart?
What are the hurdles you needto pass?
What is it that is stoppingmost people in your dreams?
What stopped you doing it inthe start?
David Cole (13:41):
The thing that stopped us the most was, I think
, early on mindset thinking thatwe had to have the perfect job
to do it.
And now that I've interviewed,I think, over 30 people and
we've met way more than thattraveling everybody has a
different job.
You don't have to be an onlineteacher.
You don't have to be astockbroker.
(14:03):
You don't have to be whatever.
Have to be a stockbroker.
You don't have to be whatever.
Some of these people can havemore money during their travels,
but that mindset of I have tohave it this way can hold people
back from getting out there anddoing it.
I say the way we did it.
Doing that two-week big tripwith the child in tow really
(14:24):
showed us that it was possibleand that we could make things
happen and that the world wasway more affordable than I
thought it was.
So living in America things area lot more expensive.
I can live everywhere else forway cheaper.
This giant two-bedroomapartment is only $350 a month
US and it comes with two polesit's a question of looking at
(14:47):
our ideas about what blocks it.
Cecilie Conrad (14:53):
It has to have this before I can do that.
I've heard a lot of people whowant to change their career and
maybe do something radicallydifferent with their lives.
And lots of them say I need towrite a book about this first
and then I could start doingstuff.
And what I really hear them sayit's a bit like people with
addiction you know, I will stopdrinking, and all I hear is you
(15:15):
keep drinking until eastermonday.
You know, just like I need towrite a book first.
It's like, oh, you don't wantto do the thing, you want to
have something stopping you andand I think we all have these
mental blocks if we are to dothe thing, you want to have
something stopping you and and Ithink we all have these mental
blocks if we are to do somethingthat seems a little risky or
new or harder to do, then it canbe really nice to convince
(15:39):
ourselves that something big andcomplicated is getting in the
way so that we have to resolvethat.
Because this big andcomplicated thing we can
understand, like getting anotherjob you have a job, you want
another job, that's doable,whereas selling everything and
have a backpack and a child onyour hip in China, that's a
(16:00):
little bit further away fromyour comfort zone than you can
actually handle.
So maybe, looking at that, ifyou feel a passion to start
traveling full time.
What are the things I'm puttingup here and are they real?
Questioning, that, I think, isa very good idea.
David Cole (16:21):
Yeah, I mean questioning your preconceived
notions is big.
Listen to other people'sstories, which is why podcasts
like yours and mine exist.
Give people that opportunity tohear these types of things,
that things are possible outthere.
Like the first episode of ourpodcast this season, we talked
with the people that we met inMexico at a World School Hub
(16:43):
pop-up that we hosted and theywere thinking about becoming
nomads.
Most everybody at that pop-upwere traveling, vacationing
families, some of whom wereconsidering traveling full-time.
This couple, kevin and his wifethey decided that they would
talk to us.
(17:03):
They picked our brains while wewere on site there, just like
we did to that other family thatwe met in Mexico when we were
trying to figure things out.
They just picked our brains andthen we got on WhatsApp.
We just talked for months andthey finally decided to bite the
bullet and do the whole processgo and their story is really
cool because it mirrors mine.
It mirrors a lot of thefamilies I talked to out there
(17:27):
and I think it mirrors the samething that you and I are talking
about here mindset and breakingthrough those barriers that you
have, those preconceivednotions.
That's really what you got todo and, I think, the only way to
do that is to listen to otherpeople's stories and resonate
with someone.
Jesper Conrad (17:45):
I think one of the reasons people think
traveling is expensive isbecause they compare it to how
they have traveled in their life, which is often on vacation,
which is this compressed pieceof time that just needs to be
the best time of the year andtherefore you go out and spend
enormous amounts of money.
One of the projects I worked onI talked with a guy there and
(18:06):
they are going to Japan and Iasked him about that budget and
I was devastated for how muchmoney they would use on a two
week vacation.
I'm like that is full timetraveling for four or five
months you're talking about.
I didn't say that to himbecause I was like, okay, yeah,
all good, okay, just thinking Iunderstand it if it's the
(18:29):
one-in-a-lifetime vacation, butit's unfortunate that people
compare the full-time travelingwith the vacations where they
use so much money on a week ortwo, because that's not the life
all of us are living.
Most of us are living everydaylives with everyday economy,
(18:49):
just in new, for us exoticplaces.
Right now we are in Budapestand it's, for me, exotic.
It's a beautiful city, I lovethe street art and we're living
here for a month and it'sfantastic, but it doesn't cost
much more than living in anapartment in Copenhagen for a
month.
David Cole (19:09):
Yeah, and I think you're right on that, because a
lot of people do compare it totheir vacations.
And the other thing aboutvacations is you're kind of
living a double life.
You're paying your rent backhome plus you're paying that
week's worth of rent, which isactually like a month's worth of
your mortgage back home whileyou're on your trip.
It's double, if not more, thanliving your normal, regular
everyday life going on avacation.
(19:31):
Doing this is you can cut theother part out, whether you
decide to sell your home orwhether you're going to rent it
while you're on your travels.
It's up to you.
You can have different ways ofdoing this.
Cecilie Conrad (19:42):
But this is the budget part of the reality here
and I think it's very importantto talk about, because there's a
lot of misconception about how,what your budget would be if
you went full time traveling.
But I think there is also it'svery important.
We meet a lot of people who say, oh, I wish I could do what you
(20:03):
do.
Oh, you have so much freedom.
It sounds amazing and it is.
It is, but at the same time,it's not a vacation.
It's not like packing your bags, taking your favorite things,
having all the time in the worldto prepare.
I've read the book, bought anew set of flip-flops or
(20:25):
whatever swimming costume.
You're really excited about thenew color and leaving
everything behind.
You don't have to think aboutthe insurance thing you have to
file, you're not.
You don't have any dentistappointments.
You don't have any work things.
Maybe you don't even read youremails.
You can forget about whateveryour sick mother, or maybe you
(20:48):
can't forget that exact thing.
But whatever, it is lots ofreal stuff from real life.
You leave it behind for a week,two, three weeks, whatever your
time frame, and the feel theshoulders come down, you're like
and it's so stimulating.
You see new things and youdon't have to do all the
annoying stuff.
It's so nice I get that.
(21:10):
I haven't had it for many yearsbecause I live a different life.
I have no vacations, there areno pauses, it's not.
I'm not leaving my life behind,I'm bringing it with me all the
time.
I don't have a home base, Idon't.
I have my insurance policyproblems in my laptop, in my
backpack, and it's my problem.
No matter where I go, I have notime to prepare for the next
(21:32):
trip, because what, where wouldthat how?
I'm always on a trip, so, and Ineed to get dental done.
We need to get a cast off.
Our son's arm in two days fromnow broke his arm in one country
, I had to have a checkup in thesecond country and now we're
whatever.
These things are real and Ithink it's important, if we have
(21:56):
listeners who are flirting withthe idea of going nomadic, to
really you know, yes, it'scheaper than you should think
and it can be very cheap if youchoose that, but it's not
vacation, it's not this peace ofmind instant thing that you
(22:17):
have to work for the peace ofmind.
David Cole (22:20):
That is true.
Work for the peace of mind?
That is true, yeah, that peaceof mind.
I know a lot of people whotravel that are well off, they
have the money to do whateverand they have everything set up
for them.
But for the majority of thetravelers they are.
They're living, like you say,day to day.
They've got their everything inthe backpack.
Their insurance policy is inthe backpack, their whole life.
This computer here is my life,everything on it is needed, my
(22:43):
backpack.
I don't travel with extra,extra things that I don't really
need, other than one or twofrivolous things that, just
because I want that and you haveto have those, make those
sacrifices for the type oflifestyle that you do want.
But yeah, it's.
But yeah, it's living yournormal life plus this other
(23:04):
thing and another thing on topof it.
So, yeah, you don't always havea vacation Not really.
I like to say sometimes that,oh, this place feels like a
vacation, but then I'm stillgoing back to the work and
working that evening with all mystudents.
Cecilie Conrad (23:18):
I like to use the word adventure.
I think it's a better wordbecause I'm not vacating from
anything, but I'm exploring.
Jesper Conrad (23:27):
David, I would love to talk about freedom
because it is a big thing for us.
It is among the reasons we aretraveling to be able to choose
what we do, when we do it, howwe do it, without external
forces you can say deciding overour lives, and by this I also
(23:52):
mean having a kid in a school.
Because your kid is in a school, you are set to be in a certain
place in a certain time.
You can only, as a family,travel in certain periods.
You only have time togetherwith your kids in outside school
hours or in vacations and theweekends.
That is also freedom.
(24:13):
So it's not like only freedomfrom a state.
It is freedom from office.
It is freedom fromcircumstances that control your
life in a way bigger fashionthat you can phantom when you
just think oh, you want to befree.
No, I want to be free from theconstraints of modern life that
(24:35):
ties me down in ways I hadn'tseen when I lived it, life that
ties me down in ways I hadn'tseen when I lived it.
So this is a long-windedquestion, or way to a question
where my question is what isfreedom for you and why is it
important?
David Cole (24:50):
I've always tried to live my life a little bit
outside the norm.
I consider normal to beabnormal.
Norm I consider normal to beabnormal.
You know, nobody's the same,nobody's cookie cutter, but like
I as a state, as a stay-at-homedad.
I was a stay-at-home dad withmy son from the time he was born
until they he left, or we lefton the road, and then we both
(25:11):
became the co-parenting uh, allfull-time because she was
working when we were in Chicago.
So I found that I alwaysinserted myself into his life.
I was part of that.
Whether he had to go to school,I started helping out at the
school when he had a field trip.
I was on every field trip, butthose were my choices because I
(25:32):
wanted to spend my life with mychild and so that carries
through into my travels and whatI want to do.
I don't want to work at asit-down job anymore.
I fight that.
If I have to try to find it, Iwant to find something that's
interesting to me, which is whyI teach English to kids online.
(25:52):
It's really interesting to me.
The time is flexible.
I make my own hours for themost part.
I'm very creative, so I do aYouTube stuff as well, the
podcast is another way for me tobe very social, and I started
it because I wanted a chance toreally continue to talk to
people and be social in that way, as well as help people out and
share some really importantinformation.
(26:13):
So all these go back to helpingme keep that sense of freedom
and do what I want, be where Iwant in the world.
Sometimes it feels a littleselfish that I get to live this
way, but that comes withthrowing off the stuff that you
have in civilization Not normalcivilization, if you like to say
(26:34):
that with air quotes.
Jesper Conrad (26:38):
What did you think made you that way?
Upbringing or philosophy?
David Cole (26:43):
I was always an odd one growing up.
So I am adhd, so a littleneurodivergent in that realm, so
I've always had that littlebeing on the outside type thing
and having a little bit of adifferent thinking pattern and
always having to be aware ofthat when I'm in situations
because you're not, then you'rejust like all over the place and
(27:04):
you're wacky.
So and I usually when growingup chose to be wacky, be a
little all over the place andnot really rein it in.
As you get older you learn torein it in.
But I just decided I don'talways, I don't really want to
have to do that if I don't wantto need to and just live myself
as myself and I think that hasinfluenced me and accepting that
(27:27):
ADHD is who I am, not using itas ever as really as a crutch
and just using it as this is mypersonality, this is who I am
and I'm going to gonna live withit I think the challenging
normal is another interestingthing to explore.
Cecilie Conrad (27:45):
I'm curious and I've been thinking during this
conversation feels like usuallyI talk a lot.
This time I had time to thinkalso about the what is it we're
leaving behind and what is itwe're bringing with us.
And when we challenge normaland say what does it really mean
(28:08):
we're letting go?
You said something down theline of letting go of the modern
culture, something like that.
I can't remember your exactwording and I'm thinking, yeah,
but I kind of need internet.
Of the modern culture,something like that.
I can't remember your exactwording and I'm thinking, yeah,
but I kind of need internet andI want toothpaste and I'm
sitting on a sofa, I eat forplates, I cook my food on an
(28:29):
induction thing.
I'm not leaving all of it.
I might be engaging with it ina different way.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Can we explore that idea ofwhat is it we're challenging
with our question mark aroundthe normal thing?
David Cole (28:52):
Yeah, because I do.
I was raised my dad liked tohave stuff.
He always had the highesttechnology, the newest gadget,
the best TVs.
So I grew up with that mindsetthat the stuff is great.
And so I am a littlematerialistic in that way and I
do like luxury.
I like a soft bed.
I don't always like it when wehave to have a hard bed because
(29:14):
that's the local place.
That was a real big problemwhen we were in Japan.
I had to get used to it.
Every bed is hard and thebreaking free of that mindset
has helped me sometimes toreally understand that.
You know, all right, I don'talways have to have the latest,
the newest thing.
My computer now is 16 years oldI think 12 years old and it's
(29:39):
still going great.
But I am planning on upgradingbecause I have to, because it
doesn't take Windows 11, andit's not going to be security
supported.
So now I'm only upgrading itbecause I have to, but not
because of materialistic wantsthat I think were ingrained in
me for the longest period oftime, and that type of thing Is
that taking us down to the rightroad that you're thinking?
Cecilie Conrad (30:00):
Well, yeah, it is questioning.
I'm just wondering, you know,what is it really?
We're questioning?
Because it becomes a little Idon't know superficial to say,
oh, we just question normal,Because a lot of normal we
actually do take with us.
The thing is, maybe we questionit and then we more or less
consciously choose which partsmake sense for us and resonate
(30:22):
with who we want to be.
As you said, I don't want to bethat materialistic.
It's not that interesting andimportant to me because other
things are, and I think thiswhole sifting through values and
sifting through options anddoing the work of figuring out
what makes sense, living by thequestion mark more of what we're
(30:45):
doing than rebelling againstmainstream there's a lot of
mainstream in the nomadiccommunity actually.
Jesper Conrad (30:51):
I think what I really love, and some of the aha
moments I have had, is doingthe math on different things.
For example, I did the math onhow because we chose school for
our first child and we have fourchildren and there is age
difference on them I looked athow long time we as parents
(31:15):
would be connected to thatschool, how many years, and what
it meant for the rest of ourlife choice of house, choice of
work, etc.
That thinking about there's achoice here.
How does it affect the totalityof your life?
I find that very interestingand I like going down these
paths and I like doing the mathon it and being like, oh, that
(31:37):
was like.
I can't remember it was 20years.
Yeah, it's something crazystupid.
It was a lifetime.
Based on that, our oldestdaughter, who is now 26, we put
her in that school and ouryoungest son is now 13, so he
would still be there.
It was just crazy.
The same I did I got hold oflike a media usage in denmark
(31:59):
showing how much media peopleconsume per day back then, and
then I put this together withpeople questioning or being like
, oh, I want more vacation, Iwant more spare time and less
your time and then I did themath of how much less your time
do you actually have in yourlife.
If you go to work eight hours aday, you maybe have half an
(32:23):
hour to an hour commute.
Every way, you need to do a lotof stuff that isn't normally
put into the world.
That's like leisure time Now we.
Then I just looked at the mediaconsumption per day and I'm
like, oh, if I cut that out, Iwill have like three or four
years more vacation in my lifethan many other people.
So I like doing these things andit's the questioning how we
(32:46):
choose to live our life.
It is, for me, questioningnormality and mainstream, not
because it's normal andmainstream, but because I don't
accept to live in a certain waywithout having tried to think it
through.
Why is it important to do itlike this without having tried
to think it through?
Why is it important to do itlike this?
And I find these things reallyfun.
(33:06):
I also at one point did themath of how much longer, in some
ways, I am married to my wifethan people who go to work every
day.
Cecilie Conrad (33:17):
If you had gone to work.
Maybe don't judge other peoplebut your choice of staying home
instead of staying in an office.
How many more hours did thatgive?
Jesper Conrad (33:24):
you.
Yeah, so I've got so many morehours living together with my
wife and my children by changingmy life around to staying at
home and working from home, andthat is just fascinating to me.
And it's like very simple math.
It's just multiplying stuff.
I'm not a math genius in anyway.
It's just looking at it, beingcurious and saying oh, and then
(33:48):
seeing the numbers and beinglike, okay, I can see this is a
fun way to live.
David Cole (33:54):
Yeah, okay, we've now been traveling as long.
I think, yeah, this is going on.
My son's going to be.
He was six when we left andhe's going to be 13 now, so half
his life has been traveling andthat first half my wife worked
full time.
I was a stay at home parent.
She felt like she never gottime with him as a little one at
(34:15):
that age bedtime.
So a lot of times she's cominghome from work and with the
commute in Chicago, sometimesshe was getting home after I put
him to bed.
So she and with the commute inChicago, sometimes she was
getting home after I put him tobed.
So there were some days whereshe never, ever actually got to
see him, which was really sadfor her and it's a sore subject
at the time.
Now she's got all the time inthe world and sometimes I think
she's his favorite parent.
(34:36):
She gets that extra love andextra attention that she didn't
have for all those years.
And yeah, if you do the math onit, it's crazy, because it's not
just oh, I go to work for eighthours a day.
No, I also have commutes andthis.
And what are you missing duringthose eight hours of the day
that you're at the office?
It wasn't just her time notwith him.
(34:58):
She and I had to reconnect on atotally different level.
She and I had to reconnect on atotally different level,
spending this much extra timetogether now that we were both
not working anymore.
We were in the same house witheach other, sometimes studio
apartments, or not to mentionthe whole two and a half year
drive that we did in SouthAmerica, where we were in a car,
(35:19):
all day, together, every day,sometimes camping, and and just
this tight, close-knit familyliving for a couple of years.
So I do, I get your idea ofdoing the math on it.
I actually now I want to go dothe math.
Cecilie Conrad (35:33):
Yeah, it is fascinating that be the two
recommendations from this.
Maybe, or two of the takeawaysthat could be from this podcast.
Go do the math and fun stuff.
You know, do some randommultiplication on how you spend
your life.
And then the other one pleaseenjoy the question mark.
When you question things, yourealize what's really important.
(35:55):
It's I was thinking about whenyou talked about freedom before,
how freedom for us and freedomfor you, I suppose, is one of
the big freedoms is to belocation independent.
But I think some people, forsome people, freedom would be to
have a really awesome location,not have to think about it, not
have to figure out language andlogistics and where to buy the
(36:19):
organic zucchini tomorrow, allall these things they are set so
we have freedom to do whateveris important for that person,
which is totally fine.
It's questioning what kind offreedom do I need that gives the
real freedom to choose what isimportant.
Did that make?
David Cole (36:39):
sense.
This is true, yes, yeah,everybody's got their own sense
of freedom for them, their ownsense of wants and needs.
Yeah, and in questioning thequestion they can get there.
Cecilie Conrad (36:51):
And you figure out what it is.
Sometimes you can in somephases of life, live a little
mindlessly doing what theneighbor does, doing what the
norm is doing, normal, whateverthat means.
But if we start questioningthings, then we figure out what
we really want and then we canget it, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (37:10):
David, for people listening to this podcast.
They want to know who you are,listen to your podcast and
hopefully also listen to theepisode you will air with us.
So please plug away.
How do people get hold of you?
Where do they find the podcast?
David Cole (37:28):
The podcast is on all the platforms out there.
We do generally do it as avideo podcast, but you can get
it as audio as well throughSpotify and Apple and all that
we're on.
If you go to find our blog atouroffbeatlifecom
ouroffbeatlifecom, you'll findaccess to the podcast there a
lot of Brody's old blog posts.
(37:48):
She's really great at talkingonline, trying to provide as
much helpful content as possibleon there.
But if you want and you'reinterested in the podcast, it's
available as well through thesite as well as on those other
platforms out there.
And we're even trying to do moreand more with YouTube as we go
along, as well as on those otherplatforms out there.
And we're even trying to domore and more with youtube as we
go along, as we find time toget those episodes or those
(38:11):
videos edited and put on thereof our travels.
So we try to show some reallycool places.
We've been what you should dowhen you go there, like my most
recent one is.
I literally just did a six 10minute walkthrough of this
apartment and what you can getin Cambodia for $350 a month.
So yeah, again, our offbeatlife.
Cecilie Conrad (38:32):
We'll put it in the show notes.
Jesper Conrad (38:34):
Perfect.
Thank you.
It has been a pleasure hangingout with you today.
It really has.
David Cole (38:40):
Thank you.
It's been awesome hanging outwith you all as well.
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