Timmy Eaton | Choosing a Life with Golden Hours - Self Directed

Episode Transcript
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Jesper Conrad (00:00):
Today we're together with Tim Eaton from
This Golden Hour, and you'retogether with us today as we're
doing a dual podcast thing.

Timmy Eaton (00:09):
Yes, so excited to do this.
And I actually want to do kindof an introduction because I
just love your stuff.
So yeah, this is Tim Eaton withthis golden hour podcast.
And I have to say this right atthe beginning like Jesper, how
many people have told you thatyou look like Russell Crowe?

Actually, more than one.

And I don't wish I don't see it.
You don't see it, man.
I've I feel like I'm talking toRussell Crowe.

Like, yeah, another the guy from Gladiator.

Cecilie Conrad (00:36):
Oh, I haven't seen Gladiator.

No, no, no.

Or beautiful mind.
A beautiful mind would be uh uhmad professor.

I can't see the resemblance.
I've actually tried looking andbeen like no, I I really man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's hitting me.
It's hitting me, man.
Well, let me do the intro, andthen I want you guys to just
kind of go off of that becauseit's like there's so much.
So, homeschooling, unschoolingfamily, I guess you guys would
say, of four children, rangingfrom is it 13 to 26, your kids
right now?

Yes.

At this point, yes.
Well done.

Yeah, and then uh, you know, self-proclaimed globe
trotters, world travelers, and anomadic.
And we want to learn aboutthat.
I saw that you had interviewedBlake Bowles, who I've also
interviewed, and I loved Ilistened to that episode so
good.
Plant-based, we'll talk aboutthat.
Unschooling Family andAttachment Parenting, Dr.
Neufeld.
So we'll talk about hold on toyour kids.
Jesper is the founder of BetterDad Institute, and I'm

(01:28):
interested to learn about whatan evolved nest is.
I think I have the idea, but Ithat's I thought that was cool.
And also both Jesper andCecilia are the hosts of the
self-directed podcast.
And so that's quite the resumethere.
Let's talk about worldtraveling because that's
something that my wife and Ithink we would like to do.
Our kids now are 12 to 21.
We've got six kids, but I don'twork from home.

(01:49):
I teach religious education formy living, and so I'm
definitely stuck to the job.
But I always admire people thatare doing that.
So tell us about that.
How did that start?
And then, like, what has itgotten to?

Denmark has around eight months of winter,
it can feel like sometimes.
So there's uh many reasons andmany different versions of the
case.

Actually, the weather is not.

No, the weather is not the biggest one.
We have, as many people, beenon vacation together, and I
remember in I think it was in13, we were in southern France
at winter, have driven downthere in a car, and we were
looking out over the ocean, andthere was a week left or
something, and we looked at eachother and said, it this could

(02:35):
be nice just to do this, bewhere we wanted to.
Um, and now we have been livingthat life since 18, where we
are able to stay where we wouldlike to stay, and travel with
the spring or the uh the summer.
Um, I don't like to travel withthe winter as much, but there's

(02:57):
many versions of the story.
I think a lot of people wouldlike to travel a lot.
We would, so the reasons arenot that big a difference.
We made it happen, and thattakes time, and there's so many
dialogues we had up front,there's so much fear we had up

(03:18):
front, and we had so manyproblems that never came to be
before we started.
But one of the things thatoften needs to be ticked off is
figuring out how to make anincome online.
Right.
I used three years on thatproject where I had a daytime
job, worked in the morning,worked in the evening until I

(03:39):
built up some clients on theside, and I was like, hey, yes,
I dare do it now.
But when you homeschool, and Ithink that's maybe the more
interesting part of thedialogue, is when you homeschool
and are the not-at-home person.
For example, I'm the dadworking in an office, and I can

(04:00):
see my family enjoy whatever sunthere is during a day.
I could drive to work indarkness and drive home in
darkness, but I could see mywife and kids have been out in
the garden in those chilly butsunny hours that were in the
middle of the day.
When you homeschool, it becomesweird that you are forced to

(04:23):
live in one place based on thedecision of that you want to
work in an office.
So we we asked ourselves, do wewant this life and can we
change it?
And then we ended up decidingwe wanted to change it.
And it took time, of course,but um it's really nice.

So that's awesome.
So then once you built yourbusiness up to a point and you
do digital marketing, or what doyou do?

Yeah, it is business strategy and marketing,
and my backstory is I haveworked 22 years in the media
industry in Denmark and got moreand more sick and tired of it.
It don't um work together withmy values.
So I changed in Denmark alreadymy my work to be still from the

(05:09):
marketing background, but in insync with my values, work for
nonprofits and charities andstuff like that.
So it is still using the toolsand tricks from the industry,
from the marketing, but using itfor the greater good.
Yeah.

And in your way and allowing you or affording you
the way to do the lifestyle youwant, which is so cool.
So, did you guys choose tohomeschool before you started
doing the traveling?
Or what was the chronology ofthings?
Like when I guess that maybethat's the question.
And then I want to come back tothis idea of like, like, how do
you do that anyway, with fourkids and for how long you guys
have done it?
Like, how did you hear abouthomeschooling?

(05:46):
I'm interested to know abouthow many homeschoolers there are
in Denmark and in Europe ingeneral, because in the US and
Canada, it's bursting, you know.
But like, what is it like whereyou guys are from?
And how did you decide to dothat?

So we are from Denmark.
Well, we left Denmark more thanseven years ago.

Okay.

Our generation of home educators in Denmark was
a very avant-garde first movinggeneration.
There were not manyhomeschoolers when we started
homeschooling.

Yeah.

As in, most people had never heard about it.
If they heard about the term,they knew about some American
weirdos doing it, or it wasextreme religion, something
going on.

Yes.

And and it was really not a thing.
And you're asking me how it ishere now, and I actually
basically can't answer thequestion.
I don't live here.
Um I happen to be here rightnow as we're recording, but I'm
just listening.
I think it's exploded.
I don't know.

Um it's legal though, like it you can do it
things.

It's legal.
So it's a legal right.
We have the right in ourconstitution, so it's very hard
to take it away from us.
We're surrounded with countrieswhere you know we have Sweden
where it's very illegal.
Uh, we have Norway where it'slegal, as our neighboring
countries, Poland.
I'm not sure exactly how it isthere.
I think it's legal, but undersome restrictions.

(07:07):
Then you have Germany, very,very illegal.

Very illegal there?

Illegal, yeah.

Is that right?
Okay.

Yeah, it's uh the hardest one is Sweden.
It's very hard to get away withit in Sweden.
Uh, as in, I've actually neverheard a story of a family
succeeding with getting awaywith it in Sweden.
Wow.
Whereas in Germany, there areways around it.
We have a lot of people fromSweden living here for that
reason.
Finnish culture and Danishculture are parallel, and the

(07:34):
language is almost the same.
You know, you can learn prettyquickly.
And so it's easy to move toDenmark if you're Swedish, and
then you can homeschool.

So, but but you didn't hear about homeschooling
and that philosophy until youwere out of uh Denmark.
Like you heard about itsomewhere else.
Like, how did you guys get intoit?

We started homeschooling way before we
left, way before we startedtraveling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I I can't remember the it was actually
because we um had a friend onthe same road and she decided to
homeschool her kid because hehad severe allergies.
And if you looked at her backthen, she was a person who
wouldn't have chosenhomeschooling.
But due to the circumstances ofher kid being allergic in a way

(08:19):
where the system couldn't carefor him, she looked into
everything very methodically andwas like, there's this thing
called homeschooling, let's dothat.

Yeah, that's true.
But it's also true that shehappened to have a friend who
was a non-schooler, and she wasone of the at the time maybe
families in Denmark who washomeschooling.
I mean, I can't remember thenumbers.
It was really, really small.

So you guys would be pioneers too in Denmark.

And so we were like second movers, maybe.
Wow.
And in our generation, we had agreat group of, I don't know
what to say, maybe 15, 20families who knew each other,
and we didn't live nearby eachother.
We had to drive cars and youknow, we had to put in an effort
to see each other, but we werepretty, I mean, lots of us were

(09:08):
around and in Copenhagen, andit's not that big big of a city.
So we could have some sort ofyou know network and the kids
could know other kids who didn'tgo to school.
But it was, I mean, we startedout pretty lonely.

So what year are we talking-ish?

So that was the year where Scott did not start
in school, which is 12.

Oh, 2012.
Yeah.
Okay, so in in Denmark, in thatarea, it probably was after
2000s where anybody reallystarted homeschooling.

Homeschooling is mentioned in our constitution,
and there are many versions ofhome education.
We actually had a minister ofeducation who was homeschooled
until seventh grade.

No way.

So it's not like we were the only ones, it
happens here and there, but itwasn't a movement as such.

So, like, how did people how was that received by
other people?
Like, what did your familiesthink?
What did your friends think?
Here in US and in Canada, it'sso common that like unless you
were like a you know, secondgeneration homeschool family,
like people just see it asweird, and then and then now
it's gotten to the point, youknow, I I did a I wrote a whole
dissertation on home educationat the University of Alberta,

(10:19):
and like you see the movementfrom like totally the resurgence
of home school home educationin the mid-1970s, like in in the
US, and then the way it'sspread now and after COVID, I
mean, it is the fastest growingform of education in US and
Canada, but like by far, rightnow, and it's totally accepted,
which is so weird to those of uswho started 17 years ago, and

(10:42):
especially those that started inthe 70s and 80s.
So, what's it like?
What what what was thereception like for you guys?

Not easy.

No, everything you can imagine.

All the things we cope with all the things, and
and actually we still do.
I mean, it's not easy, and ourgovernment's not supporting
support TIP, and it's become arunning joke in our family now.
We don't really care about thegovernment.
It's just whatever, you know.
They ask all the stupidquestions, it's all the same
stupid questions, and they don'tunderstand the full picture,

(11:14):
and whatever.
It's not my job to teach themthe full picture, you know,
their choice to not is that truefor your families too?

Like you're like you own a both.

Over the years, they've no, they're fine.

Yeah, yeah, they're fine.

I do we get any no?

I think there's one thing that has changed, and
it is us.
We have changed from, and Ithink a lot of homeschoolers and
unschoolers have this journeywhen you start down the path of
choosing something differentthan normal society, you are
often on the barricades whereyou're like uh waving the flag,

(11:48):
and every time someone you couldmeet them in the supermarket
saying, Oh, so you're not inschool today, just actually
being polite, then you start acampaign for homeschooling or a
defense for homeschooling.

I know.

And yeah, and I've reached a point now.
This I don't know what is it,13 years down the road for us,
where we are more like, hey,they're actually just polite.
I don't want to have theconversation, they don't want to
have the conversation.
Yeah, yeah.

But I feel like I mean, I feel like you still
have this mainstream thing.
There is still this idea, andit's hard to get around it.
We've been living outside ofthat idea for a very, very long
time now.
That idea about that this hasto be, it's like an axiom, the

(12:43):
school.
It's like um and it's stillpart of our reality.
There's still this wholemeasurement of what our children
didn't learn because they wereun they're they're unschooled,
right?
And I meet that question stillquite often and don't say it,

(13:03):
but I feel like talking about soyeah, we can talk about what my
children didn't learn.
Do you want to have aconversation about what your
children didn't learn?
And what your children didlearn versus exactly like it's
like you know, there's the yes,they don't do the school format
version of things, that's notthe life they've had, and there

(13:25):
are lots of things that I alsohate it's the kind of it's the
linguistics around it, like, oh,you've only been homeschooled,
right?
As in as if it was an inferiorversion of life, or you've got
holes in your knowledge.
No, I've got a different, I'vegot a different patchwork.
It's not like the group ofthings that some government

(13:49):
decided has to be thecurriculum.
That's the only combination oftools in a box that would ever
work for anyone.
It's as if there are just othertools in that box.

Well, and it's so audacious.
The assumption that, like, evenfamily to family, like that the
purpose that you have for yourfamily is the it aligns exactly
with the purpose I have for myfamily.
That's so weird that we havelike accepted that for so long
in societies that like here arethe basic things.
Sure, there's things that weshare in common, but the idea
that like my values should beyour values, so why can't how

(14:24):
come your kids haven't learnedthis or that?
And it's like, what a weird,audacious assumption that uh I
wanted to match what your familydoes.
It's like, and so that's what Iwanted to ask you guys why did
you why did you pull thetrigger?
Why did you say, no, let's dothis?
Like, we like this lifestyle.
What was it that appealed toyou guys so much?
If somebody were to say, like,well, what do you what were your
main motivations to start?
How have those motivationsevolved over the years?

It was a slippery slope because it's easy
to pull the cancer cart, right?
I mean, it's part of the storythat I had a severe cancer in
2010.
And when I came out of that, Ihad been away from my children
for a long time, from ourchildren for a long time, and
um, we didn't know for how longI would survive after treatment.

(15:09):
So it was this, you know, maybethey should just have as much
time with their mom as they canhave at this point.
Yeah, this golden hour.

That's the name of this podcast, right?
This golden hour.
You have to see a certainamount of time.

It was just a question of simple it came down.
The final decision of takingthem out, it was this was
institutions, so they werereally small.
It's before school years, sothis was kindergarten nursery.
Basically, we had a division oflabor that my in-laws would
pick them up once a week, and myhusband would do it twice a

(15:42):
week, and I would do it theother twice a week.
I was weak after the cancer,and then a lot there came a big
snowfall, and I was like, Ican't walk that snow.
Why do I have to walk all theway to get my kids?
I wanted to be with them,obviously.
I that's all I wanted after sixmonths in the hospital.
Yeah, can't they just stayhome?
Then I don't have to walk allthat stuff.
I can't get through that snow.

(16:02):
I have some muscle mass.
Yeah, why don't they just staywith me?
Why do we even take them out ofthe house in the morning?
That so that of course the ideahad been we'd been playing with
it, but it felt weird and I wasweak, and did we have the
energy?
All the things, and we had thethreat of the cancer also, you
know.
We didn't know, am I going backinto hospital?
But then there was thatsnowfall at the end.

(16:24):
It was like, no, forget it.
This was it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, so that makes sense.
It was just kind of like commonsense stuff, right?
Like, I don't want to like, whyare we doing this when it's
like so hard?

And I just want to be with my kids, and it
wasn't like a big decision, itwas big, but it wasn't long term
because there was no long termin our minds.

It was very and you weren't worried about their
like like academics per se.
I'm saying, like, becausethat's what a lot of people are,
you know, put off becausethey're like, Well, how does
this work out?
And I mean, at least in thecultures here in North America,
they're so put off by that camelater.

So we had at the time, we had uh we had a
three-year-old, we had asix-year-old, and we had a
nine-year-old.
And the nine-year-old wanted tostay in school.
She was in a democratic school,it was a beautiful place, and
she'd just been through all theshock of me being sick, and she
liked being out.
It was not about academics, itwas about friends playing the

(17:17):
guitar and yeah, yeah, talking.
And it was a very, very freeschool.
She spent a lot of time readingnovels and just hanging out.
It was great.
Um, so she stayed.
Uh, the two little ones we tookout of nursery kindergarten.
Um, it was like an eye-openingthing to have cancer.
Like, why are we even doingthis?
So, and then we have to wait awhile because uh it's three

(17:42):
years later, two years later.
Two years later.
Maybe two years later, maybemaybe not.
I can't get the timeline right.
I was sick in 10.
So in 11 they got out of that,and in 12, yeah, so it's about
two years later.
Um, our son was supposed tostart school, and he did not
want to start school basically.

(18:03):
And we had friends whohomeschooled.
Or yeah, we yeah, we didbecause of the whole before
school thing.
We were in the home family lifegroups, and we started to know
people who were homeschooling,and it wasn't that weird any
longer.
And the oldest one was still inschool, but the second child
was very, you know, he was verypolite and nice about it,

(18:27):
saying, I don't think this isfor me.
You know, it could be that allthe other kids enjoy, he's very,
very he could have beenCanadian, let me say it because
he was as polite.
Yeah, he's our nicest child,and he was nice and polite,
being six years old, not wantedto start school.
Just I just don't think this isjust not my type of thing.

And this is all still in in Denmark, right?
This is before you.

We were just living the regular life in
Denmark, except I was taking Iwas a stay-at-home mom.

Yeah, and you hadn't moved, obviously, Jesper,
to like working at home.
No, no, no.
Everything was the face.

I was at home with the kids, everything we had
a house and garden, and youknow, it was just everything
quite normal.

We had started exploring traveling because sure
our son, who is now 13, he cameas a surprise after the cancer.
And in Denmark, the rules areif you have a wife who gets a
child and she still has a deadlydisease, then you, as the man,
can take full paternity leave tomake sure that she's cared for.

(19:31):
And I got into a littleargument with my boss, who was
super annoying and only wantedto give me a little part extra
time.
And I was like, okay, I go in,read the rules, and then I went
back to her and say, okay, Iwill just stay away the whole
year instead of just two moreweeks.
I knew I would get fired when Igot back after it, but uh, it

(19:52):
was worth it.
Amen.
And we we decided to just getthe most out of that year, and
we were nervous travelers.
We bought a car and went on ahundred-day road trip throughout
Europe with a four-month-oldbaby, and it was fantastic.

And the other kids.

That was your last time.
And then I was at home withthem the year.
I started back at work, gotfired, needed to find a new job,
and then came the summer, andStolton didn't want to start
school.
So, and it's it is a paradigmshift in many ways when it comes
from the child and not from theparents, because you it feels

(20:39):
weird.
It is um, you need to startasking yourself all these
questions about why not do thenormal kind of things.
Everyone goes to school and getout, go to university, and
that's how life is.
You have been like drilled in,that's life, and totally go that
way.
But we we got the bumps on theway in the terms of the cancer

(21:01):
and a surprise baby who is now13 years old and a fantastic
young man.
Oh, and then we started askingmore and more questions.
And I don't think we reallyhave stopped asking.

It's also part of the reason for the traveling,
was like once you start homeeducating, and then if you go
all the way and you startunschooling, it it all unravels.
And it's not like it's not likewe're not extreme, I would say.
But maybe that's just from mypoint of view.

No, I know.
It's like once you once you'vebeen doing something for a
while, it looks like that toothers, but you're just going,
dude, we're just like makingdecisions and doing things
naturally.
And how would when people talkabout that a little bit?
Like when people distinguishthat people always want to
distinguish homeschooling andunschooling, and you guys say
unschooling, and I see strandsof all of it, but like how do
you differ maybe not evendifferentiate, but how do you

(21:53):
kind of define unschooling?
Like basically, what is what iseducation look like in in the
way that you guys view it?

So you did the full introduction of who we are
and what we're doing, but yougot the other podcast that we're
making, the one that's calledThe Ladies Fixing the World,
that I'm hosting without Jesper.
It's just all aboutunschooling.

That's awesome.

Unschooling only, very long, long format
where I talk with wise women whoare also unschoolers.

Well, we'll put that in the show notes for sure,
though.
That's awesome.
Cool.

So, and defining unschooling can be quite
complicated.
If you go to season two,episode one, I'm pretty sure
that one is a full two hoursabout how to define unschooling.

Cool.

But I mean, the basic structure, a simple way of
defining it, is to say thatwhen you unschool, there is no
there's no curriculum, there isno set, there's no attachment to
any outcome, especially notacademically.
So the children we respect thatthe hours in this life where

(23:01):
their heart is beating andthey're breathing air belong to
them.
So I'm not here to tell themwhat to do.
I'm not here to define whatmakes sense for them and what
they should do or should whatthey should learn.
I don't know.
And I'm um it's about trustingthe process, it's about knowing

(23:22):
that learning happens all thetime.
It's very, very hard to stoppeople from learning.
I'm learning right now.
Um and just trusting that achild growing up over those 10
years, let's say from six tosixteen, if they are not in
school, they have a lot of hourson their hands that they

(23:44):
wouldn't have had they been inschool.
Yes, and we trust that whateverthey choose to do with those
hours will be as good aneducation, it will just be
different.
But they will be 16 years old,ready for next chapter, standing
on a different cliff, but it'sstill a cliff.

Yeah, it's not quicksand, I guess.

It's a called quicksand, the sand, but the
stable and it's stable.
And so that's I think that'swhat unschooling is.
There's no demands like that.
And we keep questioning ourideas about what should be and
and how things should unfold.

(24:28):
And whenever there's a value ora judgment, we have to stop.
We the parents and think aboutit and maybe have a discussion
with the children about it.
You know, I grew up in adifferent way from you.
To me, the world looks likethis, and I have to, and now I'm
thinking this or feeling this.
I have this reaction to ourlife as it is, or your life as

(24:48):
it is, or this situation.
Can we unpack this together andfigure out what's up and down?

I grew up in Chicago, like that's where I
grew up my whole life.
And and uh I went to a highschool that was pretty like
academic, I guess.
Like it was just kind of a thatkind of area in the northwest
suburbs of Chicago.
And I'm just listening, I'mjust in my head listening to
people that would just hear thiskind of thing, you know,
especially we've beenhomeschooling for 17 plus years,
and they would just be like,Well, okay, that's awesome, but

(25:14):
how do you get into university?
And it's just like what Jesperwas saying, like, there's this
idea of like this is the way todo things, and it's not
necessarily so not that you haveto respond to people, but I'm
saying, like, how do you guysfeel that?
Like, you're just the future ofyour children.

Yes.
So I would start with sharing adialogue I had with my father
when I chose to focus on being acreative young man instead of
going to university.
And he said, I will be happy ifyou take the high school, but
then it would be easier for youif you decide to choose

(25:53):
something else later.
But when I started, oh, what heactually said was the work I
have now, there was no educationfor it when I was a young man.
And the same for me.
I ended up in a career wherethere was no university uh to do

(26:14):
online marketing or understanduh working with the web.
That's a great point.
The IT university in Denmarkstarted the year I had my first
full-time job inside the mediaindustry as an online web
editor.
So it was kind of weird.
I actually had to ask myselfone point do I want to take an

(26:35):
education that takes five yearsto get a job I already have?
Yes.
That's that's so stupid.
So, with that, I'm saying wedon't necessarily know what our
kids' future will be, but whatwe do know is that they have
they my goal is that they aspersons have a drive and

(26:58):
motivation to go towards whatthey want and then uh go over
the hurdles they will meet.
Yeah, for example, I have notbeen in university.
For me, it holds no merits orgolden stars at all.
I couldn't care less if youhave been to university or not.
It's not in my life, as animportant part.

(27:20):
I love it, man.
But my children, both of thetwo who are now 17 and 19,
they're talking about they wantto go to university.
And then they're actuallytaking the steps needed,
whatever that may be.
Right now, they are looking attaking what equals the high
school, but just online, becausethat is what they want.

(27:43):
And I'm asking them, are yousure you want that?
Because you can actually studywhatever you want to study
outside the format ofuniversity.
And we come from a country, wecome from a country where they
get the education for free.
You pay for it through yourtaxes, of course.

But it's free at the point of receiving it, you
know.

When you that's kind of like when Canada talks
about it's free healthcare, andI'm like, that is the that is
not that is not it's anexchange.

You should ask yourself if you move into a
country for one day.

Yeah, I mean, and you can do it, yeah.

Well, no, I I Jesper, I love what you said
about your dad.
Like that that's just like whatI am doing had no connection to
that.
And so, and when I hear aboutyou guys traveling, and I want
to hear more about yourtraveling here, but like the
wide exposure and education thatthat is, you know, people
people always try to confineeducation to a certain
definition or a certain place,but like, man, I think of like

(28:39):
the confidence that your kidsmust have knowing how to
navigate travel and theeducation that comes from that,
and you're not just readingabout something, you're living
in those areas, you're tastingtheir foods.
You know, I can just tell thatyou feel confident that, like,
we're not worried.
They've been loved, they'vebeen nurtured, and all of that
is more important.
And when it comes to academics,that's just a like a blessing

(29:00):
as a byproduct of just having agood life.

Yeah.
See, when you ask questions, Ianswer from an ideal.
Have I been worried?
Yes, indeed.
Have I had this uh nights whereI couldn't sleep because I was
like, how will it go?
Have we ruined their life?
Yes, of course.
But I answer from my beliefs inthis that we are doing.
But oh yes, the fear is real,the confusion, all the long

(29:27):
hours of talking about.

Your parents, man.
Your parents, of course.
And you care about your kids.

A different shot at this one.
Yeah, because I think there'sanother thing to talk about.
Unschooling is a choice we madeto respect our children's
freedom and individuality andentry path to this life.
Trusting that they should growup with unconditional love and

(29:58):
all the support we can givethem.
Exploring, being playful,figuring out who they are, where
they are, what what's up withthis life.
And when when they are young,now we have two who are older
teenagers, and when they're atthat point, think there's a
shift.
Uh, you have a handful ofchildren.
You've seen that as well.

(30:19):
And it something happens.
And where I could go on thebarricades and start burning
things and throwing things is tofight for that freedom for
younger children.

Yeah.

Because we are really crushing their lives by
stealing all the hours andtelling them what to do and
telling them whether they did itwell or not, and crushing their
self-esteem, splitting familiesapart, all these things.
I don't think we could agreemore.
But now we're talking abouthigh school and university, and
to me, that is so different,especially if the children have

(30:54):
been home educated, preferablyfrom my point of view,
unschooled.

Yeah.

Because then you have to think about the concept
of voluntary education.
So the whole idea ofunschooling is also based on
everything is voluntary.
You do what you want to do, youdo things that make sense to
you to do.
You do things to cooperate, notto comply.
That's very different.

(31:20):
And now, if you take a bigeducation because you want to,
it comes from inside the child,not from inside the parents or
inside the culture.
Of course, it does as well.
I mean, this is all a big fatmix of everything.
Yes, of course.
But when you are 17 years oldand you choose, actually, I want

(31:44):
a university degree, not to geta fancy job, but for funsies.
I want to study this thingbecause I'm interested.
I find it very interesting, andI would like to focus on it for
five years.
And in order to get to theuniversity level of stuff, I
have to do this.
I'm saying high school, notit's not the same now, it's not

(32:05):
the same systems over there, butit's an equivalent of high
school.
You have to do that, otherwise,you're not getting in.
So, and then they voluntarilychoose, I will do this because I
want to get there.
That's completely different.
It has nothing to do withpushing a 10-year-old to do

(32:25):
trigonometry when he doesn'tfeel like it, telling him he's a
bad person with somecombination of letters and
giving him a little tablet if hecan't sit still.
That's not a fun tablet, that'slike a on your tongue thing.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just like we can't eventalk.
Why are we using the samewords, school education stuff,

(32:46):
about these situations?
Because the first one, in manycases, I'd even say there's some
sort of violence to it.
And the kids have no freedom,they have no way of speaking up.
Yet you have an entire culturefull of stories of how kids hate
school.

We all agree.
Like, like full, yeah.

Read Calvin and Hobbes, you know.
Read, you know, just read andsee all the things.

If it has to do with childhood, well, no, I
teach I teach every day and Ihear it, I hear it right from
their voice.

We can't wait for vacation.
It makes no sense.
The teacher is the monster, allof these things, we all agree,
yet we do it to our ownchildren.

Yeah, because we don't trust the process, like
you're saying.
And and then another, like justvery cultural real thing is if
they've been nurtured that wayin those primary years, I call
it the primary years, andthey've been loved and exposed
to things and read to and readand just pursue what they want
and their hearts' desires.
And then they get to the highschool years when they start
going, I'm really interested inthis.

(33:47):
The thing that's it'sinevitable is this worry, like
Jesper said he was talking inideals, and I get that, but like
you got to pay for stuff andyou got to make money.
And so many people pursue a jobbecause it on the other end,
it's gonna pay them and thenprovide because not all couples
start out saying, We're hopingto have seven kids, or we're

(34:09):
hoping to have two kids.
You know, a lot of them say,We'll take it a child at a time
and see how it works, or a lotof them say, No, we're not doing
more than two, or whatever theysay.
So, what about the moneyconcern and just providing for a
family?
And is the ideal that ourchildren just don't worry about
that and it'll take care ofitself?
Or is it like, no, you do haveto be more deliberate and
intentional about actually howam I gonna make money?

Uh also the kids.

Yeah, good point.
Both.
And I've actually listened toyour episode that you guys had
about the course you have aboutmoney and harmony, and uh fun.
And you actually answer some ofthat there, that relationship
with money and finances, andyeah, there's a whole philosophy
behind it.
I know that's a big question,but like that's a that's that is
a very common concern, not onlyamongst families that are doing

(34:57):
traditional schooling, but alsohomeschool families.
Like, how are they gonnasurvive?
You know, a lot of people don'tget into homeschooling because
they're like, I like the ideasand the philosophies and the
values, but man, how are theygonna get a diploma?
And how are they gonna get intouniversity and how are they
gonna get the job that pays?

So, in my experience, lots of people fail
after school.

Lots of people don't pursue what they were uh
studying anyway.

No, I'm just saying the school is not
actually a guarantee that you'lleven get a job.

Great point.

The idea that the risk is bigger for home
educated children, you mighthave that idea in your mind, but
if you look at the statistics,it's not actually better.

Exactly.

So, I mean, you don't have to so we have to take
those two things, make themseparate.
Yes, we home educate, yes, weworry about how will our
children pay for their lives.
I worry about how I will payfor my life.
I mean, we all have to find away with this, but these two

(36:00):
things have nothing to do witheach other.
I would have worried about thatanyway.
And and and the fact thatthey're home educated doesn't
make the problem bigger orsmaller, it's the same problem.
And so that's one thing.
And then you've also said, andhow do they get into university?
Most schools on this planethave rules for this.

(36:21):
What do you need to start inour school?
Yeah, and they also have mostof them have some sort of okay.
So if you don't have that, whatdo you do?
If they don't have that writtendown anywhere, you know, the
rules to get in and the plan Bkind of thing, you can always
call them.
They have student counselors orwhatever the word is in

(36:44):
English, and call them, say, youknow, I'd really like to study
at your school.
Uh I don't have the things thatyou say I need to have because
I lived a different life.
Happens to some people.
Some people move to a differentcountry, they have the Roman
papers.
Some people come from warzones, the papers burned.
I mean, lots of things couldhappen.
So I mean, they've seen itbefore, and then you take it

(37:05):
from there.
But if you want to get in,there's a way in somehow.
You just need to find it.
And I'm saying, just now, um,after two and a half years of
looking for a way in, beingextremely frustrated to the
point of banging my head into afictive wall, and and and a

(37:27):
little bit of screaming andshouting, and and a lot more
frustration and and uh giving upand trying again many times.
Uh, and and meanwhile theproblem riped, and uh maybe I
was just trying, I don't know,whatever.
I maybe I didn't trust theprocess enough because when it
finally happened, it was quiteeasy, actually.
It's just a question of talkingto the right people at the

(37:48):
right.

Who was that for?
Who what was that for?

So the two middle ones now both are
starting this preparation coursethat is kind of like high
school.
I see.
So that they can get it.
There's it you can get intouniversity without that here.

But it's helpful.

It's not easy.
It really isn't, especially ifyou're young.
So we have like a plan B way ofgetting in, but it's mostly
thought-free.
If if if you're after 50 yearsold, you want to change career
and you want to go intouniversity, then maybe you do
have all that knowledge and lifeexperience that makes you ready
to have a university degree younever had.
But if you're 17 and you wantto start, you could, but it's

(38:31):
harder.
So they're doing that prepthing.
And to get them into the prepthing was quite the journey.

What I'm feeling this whole time is like there
really are like country tocountry, like I mean, there's
similarities that tie us alltogether, but I love I just your
guys' perspective and and yourperspective having traveled is
like just opening my mind tothings.

One of the things people forget from around
universities or any education isit is a business.
They're earning money.
What is that product?
That product is taking astudent from start to finish.
A lot of the encouragementstructures for school is they
get something when a childstarts, and then they get

(39:12):
something when a child succeeds.
So they actually also want youto succeed.
The whole system is set up forthem actually wanting students
and wanting the students to notdrop out.
They don't earn money on thedropouts.
So there is ways to come in,etc.
I had a point around the wholehomeschooling, unschooling

(39:33):
thing.
I've started to be more precisearound it, and I actually have
started not advising againsthomeschooling, but I'm saying it
like this to ask people to stopup and think things through.
Because one of the things I cansee that can be a challenge and
harmful with homeschooling isthat you, as the parent, take

(39:56):
over the role as a teacher.
So if you are not careful aboutam I now a parent or a teacher,
and whose curriculum am Itrying to enforce here, then you
can ruin the part of your jobas a parent that is most
important, which is theconnection you have with your
child.
So I find it necessary to sayif you're a homeschooler or plan

(40:19):
to homeschool, just stop up andlook at are you in any way
harming your relationship withyour child doing it?
Are you in forcing them to sitdown?
Is it getting skewed from beinga parent?
Because I can see that happenin some ways and structures of
homeschooling.
That said, I thinkhomeschooling is a way better

(40:39):
choice than school because youdo not make the separation.
And then I've also beenthinking about curriculums.
I just get more and morefascinated by how I also, in my
own childhood, my ownupbringing, but also when we
started with our oldest who wentto school, I never thought

(41:01):
about what curriculum is she'sbeing presented with.
Why do have they chosen thedifferent things that that is
being important?

Yeah, neither did I.

It was just like that's how it is.
Yeah, that's what you do.
Now I I question it.
And also, if I was not out ofan unschooling family like we
are, and we did homeschooling,that's like based on whose
curriculum, whose values aredriving that, like, right?

Like that's a great question.
And that goes back to what youguys are saying about question
everything, because because somepeople could be could be like,
that sounds like so tiresome toquestion everything.
But then if you don't, then youare relegated to the you know,
you have to accept what is then.
And when you don't want to andyou haven't done anything about
that, because if you haven'tasked the questions, then you
kind of are you kind of have tosuccumb to what is.

(41:50):
And if you don't want to dothat, then you got to ask some
questions and leave your comfortzone.

And one of the challenges is also that our
world is so big and we don'thave these smaller attachment
villages or where we lived inthe neighborhood.
Not saying everything was spedup back in the days, but I would
have known the school teacherin a small local community, I
would have known her values, Iwould have eaten dinner with
her, etc.

Yeah, more likely though, more likely than the way
it is now, at least around herefor sure.
And that actually leads intolike you guys have hung out with
Dr.
Newfeld, haven't you?

Yeah, I have the pleasure of uh having been
working together with him for ayear.
What happened was we had him ona podcast, and then I looked at
his website afterwards and wasthinking his values and what he
teaches and his book alignspretty good with how we are
living our life and what isimportant for us.

(42:43):
And I was thinking, okay, whydon't I use my my powers inside
marketing for something good?
So now I'm working with him toget his things more out, as it's
quite powerful.
It's super interesting.

I don't remember how long ago, but I mean it was
near the beginning where we readhis Hold On to Your Kids.
It resonated so much,especially with my spouse, then
she put me onto it.
And I've talked to so manypeople that uh that love his
work.
And doesn't this also kind ofplay into this idea?
Like I was reading a little bitabout it, but not in depth
about the evolved nest.
Uh, who is it?
Who is it?
Darcia Narvaez or Yeah, DarciaNarvaez.

(43:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, like what is that?
I can imagine, and I have myown ideas, but this idea of
evolved nest and attachment seemto go together.

So he's originally an anthropologist and
have studied um how things havebeen going on.
We are on a place where wedon't necessarily believe
everything was better in theolden days.
Sometimes people put this hazeover it's like, oh, it was so
good.

(43:50):
We lived in small villages andeverybody knew each other, and
it was so fantastic.
Some of it wonderful.
I like to travel, so I wouldn'thave been able to take part in
the family clan and living inthe local neighborhood, doing my
things as I'm a nomad, a nomadby heart.
But the idea of the evolvednest is actually just looking

(44:14):
and saying the family structureshave become so small.
So who are your nests?
Where is it?
Someone call it the attachmentvillages.
Some there's this saying ittakes a village.
Um, but basically, if we lookat that today, many families
live, two parents with the 2.4child or 1.4 child, whatever how

(44:37):
that could look in in ahousehold, alone in an
apartment, not uh socializingwith their neighbors, they're
doing everything themselves.
Everyone has their ownscrewdriver or trampoline, etc.
There's not a lot of communitygoing on.
And I think that this uh testof thinking smaller units, it is

(45:00):
becoming more and more clear topeople that hey, maybe we
should uh be more together aspeople.
Maybe it's actually quite niceto be together.
Um, so I'm I you could hear theepisode with with Darcia um
because she's explaining herthoughts.
I I'm a different place, uh,but we try to co-live, we try to

(45:22):
create community, we try tolive together with other people
and share the burdens of life orthe joys of life together, uh,
as both of them needs to beshared.

Are you guys familiar with Andrew Pudua,
Institute for Excellence andLearning?
Or in writing, sorry, Institutefor I just I just interviewed
him.
You can check out that podcastif you want.
But like he's he's huge in thehomeschool world.
He like for writing,especially, but like he's and
he's kind of at the very end ofhis like career, if you want to
call it that.
But but um just I mean, he'sinfluenced, like I don't know,

(45:53):
he goes to all the hugeconventions and he like his
resources are everywhere.
But anyway, at the end of ourinterview, one of the big points
that he made was he has sevenchildren and uh 18, I think
almost 19 grandkids, and they'reall homeschooled, like every
single one of them has chosen tohomeschool of his children that
are married and have children.
And uh anyway, he's justsaying, We're we're in in in the

(46:15):
US and Canada, we're used tosaying like our children go to
school.
So, like it is not uncommon.
For example, like I grew up inChicago, I went to university in
Utah, so that's like you know,a 24-hour drive from my house in
Chicago, and then I ended upliving in Canada.
So, like, and I met a girl andand and and uh we we ended up in
Canada, but anyway, this ideahe's saying that we should do

(46:39):
more.
He thinks, in his opinion, weshould do more, not that you're
going to choose for everybody,but that you create the
atmosphere of like stop sendingeverybody away because as a
family, there's enough localresources that we could build
our communities locally and kindof build it that way.
But we keep sending everybodyaway.

(46:59):
Go to school, go to university,go to your job.
And uh anyway, I think theEvolved Nest probably would
function more I don't know,effectively if we didn't always
send everybody away.
But but again, that's gonna bewe you don't want to dictate
what people choose, but that'sthe idea that we were talking
about.

I think you can have all of the education, most
of the education, by using whatmost of us have in our back
pocket.
Not like you have to goanywhere to learn.

Yeah, we can learn from home.
Go outside on our own.

I mean, it's nice to learn with others, it's
helpful to learn with help withhelpers, teachers, experts.
I'm not saying that uheducation as such is obsolete at
all.
It's just we don't have to go.
We used it used to be so thatwe had had to go somewhere to
learn, but now we don't.

Especially with technology.

Especially now that we have uh the smartphone,
basically.
I think one thing that youwe've realized over the years of
home educating and being maybeextreme parents, that I think
gets lost in the whole idea ofeducation and the idea of
academics for children is thereal importance of childhood,

(48:17):
how important it actually is foryour entire life.
You can learn all of primaryschool math in about three
months if you sit down to studyit.
Yeah, if you really do that atany point in your life.
Well, maybe at some point youmight be too young for it, but
let's say after you're 20 yearsold, after you're 12 years old,

(48:40):
most people could just sit down,and if that's what you're doing
with the you know, the resourcethe energy you have to use your
brain, you'll learn it prettyquickly.
Yeah, you cannot get achildhood back, you cannot start
over evolving everything thathappens from that beautiful
baby.
You come out, you're thismiracle shining, and this, and

(49:01):
then you start walking andtalking, and you're embraced by
the world, and you're trying tounderstand and you're exploring
and becoming a little bit older,you're asking all the
questions, you're trying tofigure out all of the relations,
all of the emotions, all of thecolors, all of the vibes of
things, all of the things.
Yeah, you're meeting the world,and then you see tween years

(49:24):
and and the teenage yearshappen, and it's rolling over
you like a tsunami for some ofthem, maybe a more calm thing
for others.
It's different, but it's stilla big deal.
They need so much time to thinkabout things and feel things
and relate to things and relateto others and have
communication, conversationswith their friends and with

(49:46):
their parents and with whoeverthey trust to talk with.
It just went for a walk rightbefore this on a beach.
And I talked with a beautifulunschooled teenage girl, not my
own, and she said, there are notmany adults you can talk to who
will actually really listen toyou, who actually are interested
in what you're saying.
They might politely talk to youand be interested in you as a

(50:07):
person, some weird way, withoutbeing interested in what you're
saying.
But some adults they relate toyou for realsies.
Isn't that sad?
I mean, it so, anyway, that isso important for having a good
life that the fact that we'reeven talking about academics and

(50:28):
money is ridiculous.

Yeah, I love that description.

Stand on your feet, know who you are, know how
to relate to other people, knowhow to be part of a community,
know how to handle rough times.
We all get that.
Know how to be the one thathelps others to handle rough
times, know basic stuff likethriving, I would say, knowing

(50:54):
what love is.
All of these things isinstalled, and this installation
that happens going from thebeautiful little baby to the
young adult person standing uphere ready to walk into life,
that cannot be done in anotherchunk of 17 years of your life.

(51:17):
It has to be done in the first17 years.
I'm saying 17 arbitrarily,you're not coming to that point
of 17 with nothing of what wenormally think of as school.

Education, yeah.

It's not like they're coming out, and all they
know is how to relate to otherpeople and feel love.
And you know, they they do alsoacquire quite a lot of stuff
that if you take the schoolfilter, you will see academics,
if you like.

Well, I think if people listen to what you just
said in that last littlemonologue or whatever you want
to call it, and all it was agood rant, man, because because
like it, and I think it reallydoes like it converts me more to
the unschool philosophybecause, like you said, like you
can learn that stuff later, butlike the development of that
human.
I mean, again, the name of thispodcast is This Golden Hour,

(52:06):
and I always tell the story, butthat came from me playing catch
with my son in front of thisdental office where we used to
live about 13, 14 years ago.
And I'm I'm playing catch withhim.
And as we walked inside, it waslike this beautiful evening and
uh just warm out, and that'snot that's not that common here
in in Canada.
And and we're walking in, andI'm like, dude, this is this is

(52:26):
a fleeting time.
Like, I don't get this forever.
And uh, and that's proven uhthat's proven very true.
Like, you don't know whenyou're gonna lose those
opportunities, and uh, and thenthey're gone, man.
You don't get like you said,you don't get that back.
And so, like, we don't regretat all that for from the time
our kids were born until thepresent day, those hours that

(52:47):
were would have been spent in abrick schoolhouse, they were
spent with my wife and with meand with nature.
And I just think it's amazing.
So, anyway, I love what youjust said.
I can't wait to capture that inlike some kind of fight and
just be like, man, that that'sconverting to some souls for
sure.
Where do you stay when you'rein Denmark?

In a farm outside of the world.

This is an organic farm outside of
Copenhagen where our goodfriends own the farm, and we
have this very specialrelationship with this family.
We're the why what we like,it's like family, yeah, or like
family should be.
We just really like beingtogether, and we've been very
close for a very long time.
The kids have grown up withthis fact that we sometimes move

(53:30):
in for a while and then we moveout and go on our journeys and
stuff like that.

Like, how long will you stay at a time?

Oh, that depends.

Maximum three months, I think.
It's the longest we have livedtogether in a row.

Sometimes just for a week.

Yeah, we're we're in a similar situation.
We our my I uh my bestbasically uh one of my good
friends and his wife and I.
Anyway, our I worked with him,and then our wives became good
friends, and our kids are aboutthe same age.
They have seven kids, and theirkids range from about six to
twenty four.
But uh, but anyway, we webought up an acreage right next

(54:06):
to theirs, so we have webasically share the same
acreage, and then it's just usout in the country near Waterton
National Park.
So we're just like it's kind ofawesome.
So it is something awesome.
Yeah, there you go.
It's a yeah, yeah, there yougo.
It is, it's a small one, butit's suiting us.
Well, the only thing I wantedto ask about at the end was just
like to say, like, what haveyou guys told people that are

(54:28):
trying to get into homeeducation?
Like, what's your I mean, we'vetalked about it the whole time,
but like what's your kind ofcounsel to people?
And then I just yeah, yeah, no,I don't say that.

No, no, no.
Yeah, I'm during steer clear.
Yeah, no, we actually sometimestalk about uh opening the door
to Nanya in this old story, thatit is, and that's what I mean
by don't do it, it is a journeywhere you keep peeling up layers
of your understanding of whatlife should be, and you figure

(55:03):
out that much of what you and Idon't like you using words like
programmed or instilled in youbecause it sounds like there's a
man who wants to do it againstyou.
It is just life, it justhappened that we ended up in
this and you start questioning alot of things, and there's a
long questioning period, and Isee some people go through this

(55:27):
normal trajectory where youstart out by defending yourself
against what is, it's like youneed mental crutches to move
away from normal, and you oftenstart out by being negative
against what other people aredoing, and the school system is
bad, and all these things.

(55:48):
Whereas you end up when youhave woke the path and gotten
rid of the anger and all thesethings you needed to dare going
out in real life, then you endup just enjoying your life and
seeing, oh, we like it likethis, some people like it like
that.
That's okay.
So, what I'm trying to say isthat for people wanting to

(56:12):
start, except there is a periodwhere you might end up being
like on the barricades forhomeschooling and unschooling
and claiming that everythingelse is stupid, but it's a phase
that you need to grow out ofalso, because you should not
define your life in beingagainst, you should define your

(56:32):
life as being for something.
Excellent.
Living that.
And if I can look back, I cansee I was on that whole
trajectory.
I can all the rants againstschool, all the rants against
how what I think can be wrongwith this and that.
But when I look at what I'mactually really happy for with
this life I live, it is the factthat I live next to Cecilia for

(56:56):
so many more hours than I didwhen I went to work.
I have had a marriage that isso much longer than many other
people because I'm next to herall the time.
And we often travel in a van orwhen we live in the Airbnb's
houses with friends.
We often like to be in the samerooms, the whole family.

Wow.

And the amount of time and hours I get together
with my family and my lovedones, that is the choice.

Yeah, so why so why spend your time and energy
about what other people aredoing and what you're against?
Like, like you're just going,dude.
I I I love I love what you justsaid.
Like you've extended yourmarriage, you've extended your
relationship with your children.

Well, it's the same thing as my rant before
that, you know, what's what'sreally important in this life?
So your question was, what doyou say to people who think that
they might want to starthomeschooling?
And there's no one thing thatyou can say about that because
every choice is contextual andevery context is different.

(58:04):
But we do talk a lot aboutvalues and life choices.
We do talk about it in ourfamily and we do talk about it
with other people.
So if you're at a point whereyou stop and say, Maybe I should
homeschool, you're alreadythere, really, where you do that
analysis of what's important.
And we've brushed on lots ofthings that people are afraid of

(58:28):
in this podcast.
We've talked about then whatafter, and what would people
say, and all these things, whatwill be your troubles?
And and my advice for that isyou know, when you're doing an
analysis, trying to figure outwhat are my real values and what
kind of life do I want to live?
Can I live a life where Isupport more of the things that

(58:51):
are my top values?
Then fear will come right awayand try to stop you, especially
if it's a little bit out of theordinary what your choices would
be.
So just think about that fear.
What kind of role do I wantfear to have in my life?

(59:11):
What will I allow fear tochoose for me?

Yes.

What level of fear can I cope with?
And is there a way?
If it's just fear holding meback from what's truly important
to me, I know what's important.
Let's pretend like now you'vedone the work, you know what's
truly important to you, you knowhow you could get it, and
homeschooling might be part ofthat equation, but there's
something you're afraid of,you're so afraid of it that it's

(59:41):
stopping you from doing what'sreally important, then flip it,
please.
Think about what will happen ifyou don't do the things that
are important, what price areyou really paying?
And then you start being reallyafraid.
You know, you don't want to paythat price.
And then you go back to yourinitial fee.
And you just start working withthat.

(01:00:01):
There's techniques for that.
That's actually quite easy.

Timmy Eaton (01:00:04):
Okay, it pales, it pales in comparison.
Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad (01:00:08):
Exactly.
Now it becomes just a practicalproblem you need to solve
yourself.
So that's like the strategy ofwhat we would say to people.
But obviously, the actualcontent and conversation would
be based on the actualpersonalities involved and the
actual context, the actualsituation.
So there's no one size fitsall.

What what an amazing response from both of
you.
Like honestly, like I like, Idon't know.
The deeper we've gotten intothis conversation, I like I'm
like at your guys' feet.
Please, no, for sure, man.

Jesper Conrad (01:00:40):
Standing on the wonderful island of La Palma,
Spain, which is right next to F.
That's where you're headed,right?
No, no, no, no.
Just to Spain.

La Palma is one of the Canary Islands.
You know about Tenerife, maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah.

We were standing on this island.
We met some full-timetravelers, and I just looked at
him and I said, Man, oh man, Iwould really love this being a
full-time traveler.
It seems awesome.
Do you have an advice?
And they looked at us and said,Set a date.
And that's set a date.
Three words, that's quite easy.

(01:01:16):
And then, but then he followedit up with then you start from
dreaming to planning.
And the interesting thingsabout many of these dreams are
that they are often in thefuture.
But when you set the date, youwill reach that time and period
where you need to act on it ifyou're true toward your values
and your choices.

(01:01:36):
And we also talked with anon-school homeschool mom.
And she was a single mom.
And she actually said to us,Yes, I knew I wanted to
homeschool, but I was a singlemom.
So it's like, how can I makethis happen?
But then again, she said, Iknow I want this in my life.
I will give myself three orfour years to figure out how to

(01:01:59):
do it.
And then she worked on reachingthat dream.
That it was building up acommunity of people who could
help her with it.
She needed to go to work, etc.
But it's the same strategy.
She set a date, she planned forit, and she moved in that
direction.
It is very, very easy to gothrough life with just dreams.
Dreams are nice.
I don't think you shouldn'thave dreams, but they are this

(01:02:22):
comforting thought about apositive future.
But sometimes you actually needto take that dream and put it a
plan.
Make it a plan and make ithappen.
So that is also one of theadvices for people wanting to
homeschool is make a plan.

Well, it inspires me.
Like I because I do, man.
And it's it's exactly whatCecilia was saying.
Like, to the degree that I putthat off, man, and what am I
more afraid of?
Am I more afraid of what isstaring me in the face right now
or what could have been?
And uh so that's I think that'samazing counsel.
I appreciate it from both ofyou.

We have this friend we had on our podcast,
and we talked with her, and shesaid the amount of insecurity
you can hold as a person equalsthe amount of freedom you will
have.
Because you will, in this life,when you go outside the norm,
there will be a lot ofinsecurity, a lot of what will

(01:03:19):
happen, and all these things,but you will then also be
greeted and gifted with a lot offreedom, and that's a nice
life.

The amount of insecurity that you can handle
determines the amount of freedomthat you'll experience.
Yes, you can have, you canhave, you can only be so free as
the insecurities you can take.
Wow, dig it, man.
You guys, in my show notes,I'll put all your guys' stuff.
I just encourage my audience tolike tap into you guys.

(01:03:49):
I love interviewing people fromdifferent cultures and
different countries and peoplethat have traveled, like you
guys have, because you do, youjust have a different
perspective that is such ablessing to the rest of us.
And so thank you very much.
Thanks for taking time.
I appreciate it.

Thank you.
It was fun.

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Timmy Eaton | Choosing a Life with Golden Hours

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