June 3, 2025 • 17 mins
Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside awakes.
—Carl Jung
In this episode, we explore the concept of awakening—a profound shift in consciousness where you recognize your interconnectedness with all existence. We'll delve into the spiritual and psychological dimensions of awakening, drawing from traditions like Zen Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism.
Most importantly, we'll look at how awakening transforms personal perception, challenging the ego's self-centered worldview. We'll also address the inevitable changes in relationships that happen once we set foot on the awakened path, the importance of inner work, and the need for nonjudgment and gentleness during personal growth.
Key Highlights
- Awakening is a perceptional shift in consciousness
- The ego resists understanding of interconnectedness
- Relationships naturally change during personal transformation
- Inner work requires patience and self-compassion
- Individual growth contributes to collective consciousness
- Awareness is the primary tool for personal development
- One cannot force awakening in others
- Personal healing impacts the broader community
- Spiritual growth is a continuous, lifelong journey
- Understanding interconnectedness leads to a more expansive worldview
Timeline:
0:00:00 - Opening quote by Carl Jung about looking inside to awaken
0:00:21 - Introduction to the concept of awakening
- Defined as a perceptional shift in consciousness
- Understanding interconnectedness with all things
0:01:42 - Exploration of awakening across different spiritual traditions
- Zen Buddhism (Satori)
- Taoism (Primal unified awareness)
- Hinduism (Sat Chit Ananda)
0:02:24 - Two key things that happen during awakening:
- Realizing interconnectedness
- Ego's resistance to this new awareness
0:05:50 - Relationships change during awakening
- Existing relationships may end or transform
0:06:07 - Systems theory explanation
Disruption of homeostasis in relationships
- Others may resist or react to one's personal transformation
0:08:37 - Key insights on personal growth:
- Cannot force awakening in others
- Need to be present and loving
- Respect others' individual journeys
0:10:00 - Being on the awakened path means:
- Shifting worldview
- Continuous inner work
- Clearing personal misalignments
0:11:51 - Practical approach to awakening:
- Non-judgment
- Awareness
- Gentleness
- Patience with personal growth
0:15:20 - Concluding message:
- Individual contribution is essential to the whole
- Personal inner work impacts community health
Got a question about your self?
Send it to me at rachel@selftalkpodcast.com and it may be featured on a future episode.
• Subscribe here, at youtube.com/@selftalkpodcast, or wherever you get podcasts. •
Music:
"Ave Marimba"
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who looks outside dreams who looks inside awakes.
Carl Jung.
Welcome to Self Talk.
(00:21):
I'm Rachel Estarte.
Thank you for being here.
Welcome to Self Talk.
I'm Rachel Estarte.
Thank you for being here.
You've heard me talk about beingon the awakened path.
Being awakened is an integralpart of building our foundation
of self.
In fact, it may be that yourawakening is the event that
placed you on the path todeveloping your foundation of
(00:43):
self.
So what is awakening?
Simply put, awakening is aperceptional shift in
consciousness where we begin tosee our interconnectedness with
all things.
We come to know that the worlddoes not revolve around us.
We move with the world.
(01:04):
There is no separation betweenour individual selves and all
around us.
Zen Buddhists call it satriseeing one's true nature.
Now, because Zen Buddhistteachings say that everything is
transient, satri is actuallythought of as a brief moment of
(01:26):
awareness, a taste ofenlightenment, if you will, but
not in the Western sense ofbeing fully actualized, but
having a glimpse of our truenature, and even that glimpse
can be life-changing.
It's the understanding that weare an integral part of what
(01:47):
Taoists call primal, unifiedawareness.
In Hinduism it'ssat-chit-ananda.
Sat means truth, chit meansconsciousness, ananda means
bliss, the ecstatic state ofrealizing the unity and
wholeness of all existence.
And that brings us back to whatwe talked about earlier in
(02:08):
another episode, which wasRamana Maharshi's philosophy of
Advaita Vedanta.
Everything is energycommunicating with itself.
So what happens when we awaken?
Two things always happen whenwe awaken Within the self.
(02:29):
Once we realize theinterconnectedness of all things
, we begin to realize that theself-centered world that we have
lived in is akin to living in abox.
Now that we've blown the lidand the sides off the box, the
infinite vastness of creation,of possibility, can be really
(02:52):
de-centering, to put it mildly.
So what happens to theindividual self in the face of
eternal cosmic oneness?
It fights back.
Eternal cosmic oneness.
It fights back, or rather theunderdeveloped ego fights back.
The underdeveloped ego freaksout, because coming into
(03:12):
awareness of our true nature,that is, being pure
consciousness, that means theego self, the small s self, dies
, that scrappling, grappling,always scheming thinking mind
that necessarily has to die asit recognizes that this life of
(03:32):
suffering is a dream and ourtrue nature is eternal.
It's the all, the nothing, theall way, everything right.
But here's the deal Energydoesn't die, it just just
changes form.
We came from that plane of pureconsciousness and we return to
it and iterate in new forms asconsciousness experiences itself
(03:56):
.
This is the cycle.
As a little kid I used to stareup at the sky and I imagined it
going up and up, and up, and upand up, until I would hit the
end of the cosmos.
But of course there was no endever.
And that dizzying feeling, Iassume, is the closest I could
(04:19):
get to what it's like to returnto pure consciousness state.
I was doing that a lot as achild, so I invite you to do.
It's like to return to pureconsciousness state.
I was doing that a lot as achild, so I invite you to do it.
It's a great exercise.
But if that's the behavior ofthe underdeveloped ego right,
this freaking out this I need tocontrol everything around me,
because if I don't, you're goingto figure out you're one with
(04:43):
everything and I'm going to bekilled off.
So that's the behavior of theunderdeveloped ego.
What does a developed ego looklike?
Right, we have to ask thatquestion.
The ego has a place.
It's the container of the soul,as Carol Pearson puts it in her
book Awakening the HeroesWithin.
Our developed ego maintains thebalance of being fully human
(05:09):
and at one with source.
It reminds us not to fly offinto woo-woo land, and it also
reminds us not to get caught inthe murky mire of what it means
to be human and have humansuffering.
So it's what we talked aboutearlier, about Zorba, the Buddha
right Fully in the earth andalso fully spiritual.
(05:32):
So that's what happens insidethe self, what happens outside
of us, outside of ourselves.
Our awakening means that therelationships we established
before awakening will change orend entirely, and no one
prepares us for this.
But it is as much a part ofthis journey as your voice
(05:55):
changing during puberty.
It's just part of the deal.
I wish people would tell youthat, hey, when you wake up, all
your relationships are going tochange.
Sorry, but that's what happens.
So if you're aware of this atthe start, it won't be as
shocking to you when it happens.
So why does this happen?
(06:15):
Well, let's talk about familytherapy, right?
So that's what I'm trained inas a family therapist, and we
work with systems.
One of the tenets of systemswork is homeostasis, that is,
the balance of roles andbehaviors within a system, and
so we could think of a family ora couple or a community as a
(06:37):
system.
So, even if the roles we haveare dysfunctional.
It's still a trusted dynamic,one that all of the members have
gotten used to.
Now, if someone in the family,let's say a troubled child, gets
therapy and begins to changetheir behavior for the better,
there's been a disruption inthat homeostasis, right.
(06:58):
So the homeostasis is now outof whack and what ends up
happening is an unconsciousdrive to compensate, to get that
homeostasis back by any meansnecessary.
So that might mean that as thetroubled child becomes more
stable, another child in thefamily might start acting up, or
(07:19):
the father might start drinkingmore, or whatever.
You see how that works.
So when you awaken, you'redisrupting the homeostasis of
your system of relationships.
So necessarily, some of yourpeople friends, parents,
siblings, other family members,colleagues even will resent your
quote-unquote new self andeither try to push your buttons
(07:41):
to get you back to your old,small-s self ways, or they will
begin to act out themselves,treating you as if you've
betrayed them, which, in effect,you have.
So what do we do?
Well, here's what we can't do.
We can't fix it.
It helps to remind yourselfthat we are all energy In this
(08:06):
moment, in this place.
We happen to have human form.
Your family and friends areexperiencing their own journey.
So we can't know, you can'tknow, what is it that they are
here to learn and we can'tinterfere with that.
We cannot awaken a sleepwalker.
As we've said before, it's verydangerous in reality to wake a
(08:29):
sleepwalker.
They have to wake up on theirown.
And it's the same when we talkabout it in this
psycho-spiritual way.
There's a fantastic Alan Wattsteaching quote which I will
share with you.
Kindly let me help you or youwill drown, said the monkey,
putting the fish safely up atree.
(08:50):
I love this teaching so much.
So what Watts is saying is wecannot interfere with others'
growth we don't know, but whatwe can do is be present and
loving, as all others are,ultimately our siblings.
(09:10):
Ram Dass has this wonderfulperspective on holding space for
others.
He says we morally have noright to take away another
person's suffering.
Isn't that the shit way?
Another person's suffering,isn't that the shit?
So, even if our awakeningcauses suffering in others, we
(09:30):
can simply listen and not getbogged down in the mud with them
.
In that way we are living asour capital S self, the awakened
understanding that we are allin this together, which reminds
me of another one of my favoriteramdas quotes we're all just
walking each other home.
Maybe you've heard that one.
(09:51):
It's pretty famous.
So what does it mean to be onthe awakened path?
It sounds very fancy, doesn'tcontinue doing inner work,
clearing out the misalignmentswithin ourselves, the childhood,
(10:24):
wounding, anger, jealousy,negative self-talk, unhealthy
boundaries all of that thatclouds the luminescence of pure
consciousness, our true nature.
Here's the deal, though.
Once you awaken, you can't goback to sleep, sorry, you can't
unsee the great seeing, and thisis a blessing, of course.
(10:46):
But it can also feel like agreat effort, like, oh shit,
there's another thing I have todeal with, and there's anger.
Again, this is another issue Ihave to work on.
Um, there's that need forexternal validation.
These things are going to comeup because now you've opened the
doors to perception and you'veinvited these things to come,
(11:08):
and they feel safe enough tocome and be dealt with.
Now, right, but here's, here'sanother part of it.
There's a real challenge in thatwe may begin to expect results
to come quickly.
Well, I'm awake, so why doesthis shit still bother me?
Why does it feel like I'm notmaking any progress?
Well, hang on, because thatright, there is awareness at
(11:34):
work.
That's the first tool we use aswe build our foundation of self
.
You are aware that you feelimpatient with yourself.
That's a good thing.
What matters now is how yourespond to that awareness.
So let's talk about that.
How does being on the awakenedpath apply specifically to
(11:54):
foundation of self work?
Well, this is wherenon-judgment and gentleness come
to the rescue.
So remember, non-judgment isthat magic elixir that we carry
with us on our path of innerwork.
It helps us to look objectivelyand lovingly at where we are
misaligned.
Awareness is the tool that weuse to look objectively at our
(12:18):
wounded thought patterns andbehaviors and actions.
So we're carrying thenon-judgment with us so that we
can use that magic elixir assoon as we hit that awareness of
oh crap, I'm still pissed offby my adopted stepsister, or
whatever.
So that's non-judgment, that'sawareness.
And then gentleness is thesalve that we apply to the
(12:41):
wounds we uncover as you clearout internal misalignments and
perhaps become aware ofimpatience with your progress.
This is where non-judgment andgentleness come into play.
You need patience, love andgentleness as you work through
(13:02):
old wounds.
Remember that those wounds werethere a lot longer than you've
been awake, so it will take timeto change old patterns.
Thanks to neuroplasticity.
That's possible.
It's been proven that the braincan change how it processes
information, based on retraining.
(13:22):
And that's what part of thiswork is about.
Now, this awareness that we arepart of the whole may seem
counterintuitive toself-development If there is no
self per se.
What's the point?
Well, this is the paradox.
In one of the minor Vedic texts, the Tejubindu Upanishad,
(13:46):
satchitananda is explained likethis this is the realization of
Atman.
Atman is your individual soul,your true self.
I am the nature ofconsciousness.
I am made of consciousness andbliss.
I am non-dual, pure in form,absolute knowledge, absolute
(14:09):
love.
I am changeless, devoid ofdesire or anger.
I am detached.
I am one essence, unlimited,utter consciousness.
I am boundless bliss, existenceand transcendent bliss.
(14:29):
I am the Atman that revels initself.
I am the Sat-Chit-Ananda thatis eternal, enlightened and pure
, sound, familiar.
All of this I am stuff.
Well, that's the name of God InExodus 3.13-3.14,.
(14:54):
When Moses asks God, whom shallI tell?
The Israelites is sending me tothem, and God says I am that I
am.
Tell them I am sent me to you.
So you see, your awakened selfis the realization that you are
one with the divine.
That's how vital you are.
(15:15):
You are a breath of the divine.
Your individual life is theuniverse source, god, great
spirit, great mystery, pureconsciousness experiencing
itself, and your contribution isessential to the whole.
(15:36):
A community is only as healthyas the individuals that comprise
it.
Think about that If you make acake using rotten or spoiled
ingredients, is it still a cake?
Sure, but it is not a good one.
We are all ingredients in thecake of pure consciousness.
That's why it behooves you todo your inner work and to shine
(16:00):
your unique light in this world.
Building a strong foundation ofself is your commitment as an
ambassador of source.
Now that you have the basics,what inner work is?
The importance of practicingnon-judgment, how to use the
tool of awareness in your innerwork, how to apply gentleness to
(16:23):
your growth and what it meansto be on the awakened path, we
can begin to look at practicalapplications for foundation of
self-work, and we'll begin withself-talk a good place to start
considering the name of thispodcast.
Until then, be gentle withyourself.
Who looks outside dreams who looks inside awakes.
Carl Jung.
Welcome to Self Talk.
(00:21):
I'm Rachel Estarte.
Thank you for being here.
Welcome to Self Talk.
I'm Rachel Estarte.
Thank you for being here.
You've heard me talk about beingon the awakened path.
Being awakened is an integralpart of building our foundation
of self.
In fact, it may be that yourawakening is the event that
placed you on the path todeveloping your foundation of
(00:43):
self.
So what is awakening?
Simply put, awakening is aperceptional shift in
consciousness where we begin tosee our interconnectedness with
all things.
We come to know that the worlddoes not revolve around us.
We move with the world.
(01:04):
There is no separation betweenour individual selves and all
around us.
Zen Buddhists call it satriseeing one's true nature.
Now, because Zen Buddhistteachings say that everything is
transient, satri is actuallythought of as a brief moment of
(01:26):
awareness, a taste ofenlightenment, if you will, but
not in the Western sense ofbeing fully actualized, but
having a glimpse of our truenature, and even that glimpse
can be life-changing.
It's the understanding that weare an integral part of what
(01:47):
Taoists call primal, unifiedawareness.
In Hinduism it'ssat-chit-ananda.
Sat means truth, chit meansconsciousness, ananda means
bliss, the ecstatic state ofrealizing the unity and
wholeness of all existence.
And that brings us back to whatwe talked about earlier in
(02:08):
another episode, which wasRamana Maharshi's philosophy of
Advaita Vedanta.
Everything is energycommunicating with itself.
So what happens when we awaken?
Two things always happen whenwe awaken Within the self.
(02:29):
Once we realize theinterconnectedness of all things
, we begin to realize that theself-centered world that we have
lived in is akin to living in abox.
Now that we've blown the lidand the sides off the box, the
infinite vastness of creation,of possibility, can be really
(02:52):
de-centering, to put it mildly.
So what happens to theindividual self in the face of
eternal cosmic oneness?
It fights back.
Eternal cosmic oneness.
It fights back, or rather theunderdeveloped ego fights back.
The underdeveloped ego freaksout, because coming into
(03:12):
awareness of our true nature,that is, being pure
consciousness, that means theego self, the small s self, dies
, that scrappling, grappling,always scheming thinking mind
that necessarily has to die asit recognizes that this life of
(03:32):
suffering is a dream and ourtrue nature is eternal.
It's the all, the nothing, theall way, everything right.
But here's the deal Energydoesn't die, it just just
changes form.
We came from that plane of pureconsciousness and we return to
it and iterate in new forms asconsciousness experiences itself
(03:56):
.
This is the cycle.
As a little kid I used to stareup at the sky and I imagined it
going up and up, and up, and upand up, until I would hit the
end of the cosmos.
But of course there was no endever.
And that dizzying feeling, Iassume, is the closest I could
(04:19):
get to what it's like to returnto pure consciousness state.
I was doing that a lot as achild, so I invite you to do.
It's like to return to pureconsciousness state.
I was doing that a lot as achild, so I invite you to do it.
It's a great exercise.
But if that's the behavior ofthe underdeveloped ego right,
this freaking out this I need tocontrol everything around me,
because if I don't, you're goingto figure out you're one with
(04:43):
everything and I'm going to bekilled off.
So that's the behavior of theunderdeveloped ego.
What does a developed ego looklike?
Right, we have to ask thatquestion.
The ego has a place.
It's the container of the soul,as Carol Pearson puts it in her
book Awakening the HeroesWithin.
Our developed ego maintains thebalance of being fully human
(05:09):
and at one with source.
It reminds us not to fly offinto woo-woo land, and it also
reminds us not to get caught inthe murky mire of what it means
to be human and have humansuffering.
So it's what we talked aboutearlier, about Zorba, the Buddha
right Fully in the earth andalso fully spiritual.
(05:32):
So that's what happens insidethe self, what happens outside
of us, outside of ourselves.
Our awakening means that therelationships we established
before awakening will change orend entirely, and no one
prepares us for this.
But it is as much a part ofthis journey as your voice
(05:55):
changing during puberty.
It's just part of the deal.
I wish people would tell youthat, hey, when you wake up, all
your relationships are going tochange.
Sorry, but that's what happens.
So if you're aware of this atthe start, it won't be as
shocking to you when it happens.
So why does this happen?
(06:15):
Well, let's talk about familytherapy, right?
So that's what I'm trained inas a family therapist, and we
work with systems.
One of the tenets of systemswork is homeostasis, that is,
the balance of roles andbehaviors within a system, and
so we could think of a family ora couple or a community as a
(06:37):
system.
So, even if the roles we haveare dysfunctional.
It's still a trusted dynamic,one that all of the members have
gotten used to.
Now, if someone in the family,let's say a troubled child, gets
therapy and begins to changetheir behavior for the better,
there's been a disruption inthat homeostasis, right.
(06:58):
So the homeostasis is now outof whack and what ends up
happening is an unconsciousdrive to compensate, to get that
homeostasis back by any meansnecessary.
So that might mean that as thetroubled child becomes more
stable, another child in thefamily might start acting up, or
(07:19):
the father might start drinkingmore, or whatever.
You see how that works.
So when you awaken, you'redisrupting the homeostasis of
your system of relationships.
So necessarily, some of yourpeople friends, parents,
siblings, other family members,colleagues even will resent your
quote-unquote new self andeither try to push your buttons
(07:41):
to get you back to your old,small-s self ways, or they will
begin to act out themselves,treating you as if you've
betrayed them, which, in effect,you have.
So what do we do?
Well, here's what we can't do.
We can't fix it.
It helps to remind yourselfthat we are all energy In this
(08:06):
moment, in this place.
We happen to have human form.
Your family and friends areexperiencing their own journey.
So we can't know, you can'tknow, what is it that they are
here to learn and we can'tinterfere with that.
We cannot awaken a sleepwalker.
As we've said before, it's verydangerous in reality to wake a
(08:29):
sleepwalker.
They have to wake up on theirown.
And it's the same when we talkabout it in this
psycho-spiritual way.
There's a fantastic Alan Wattsteaching quote which I will
share with you.
Kindly let me help you or youwill drown, said the monkey,
putting the fish safely up atree.
(08:50):
I love this teaching so much.
So what Watts is saying is wecannot interfere with others'
growth we don't know, but whatwe can do is be present and
loving, as all others are,ultimately our siblings.
(09:10):
Ram Dass has this wonderfulperspective on holding space for
others.
He says we morally have noright to take away another
person's suffering.
Isn't that the shit way?
Another person's suffering,isn't that the shit?
So, even if our awakeningcauses suffering in others, we
(09:30):
can simply listen and not getbogged down in the mud with them
.
In that way we are living asour capital S self, the awakened
understanding that we are allin this together, which reminds
me of another one of my favoriteramdas quotes we're all just
walking each other home.
Maybe you've heard that one.
(09:51):
It's pretty famous.
So what does it mean to be onthe awakened path?
It sounds very fancy, doesn'tcontinue doing inner work,
clearing out the misalignmentswithin ourselves, the childhood,
(10:24):
wounding, anger, jealousy,negative self-talk, unhealthy
boundaries all of that thatclouds the luminescence of pure
consciousness, our true nature.
Here's the deal, though.
Once you awaken, you can't goback to sleep, sorry, you can't
unsee the great seeing, and thisis a blessing, of course.
(10:46):
But it can also feel like agreat effort, like, oh shit,
there's another thing I have todeal with, and there's anger.
Again, this is another issue Ihave to work on.
Um, there's that need forexternal validation.
These things are going to comeup because now you've opened the
doors to perception and you'veinvited these things to come,
(11:08):
and they feel safe enough tocome and be dealt with.
Now, right, but here's, here'sanother part of it.
There's a real challenge in thatwe may begin to expect results
to come quickly.
Well, I'm awake, so why doesthis shit still bother me?
Why does it feel like I'm notmaking any progress?
Well, hang on, because thatright, there is awareness at
(11:34):
work.
That's the first tool we use aswe build our foundation of self
.
You are aware that you feelimpatient with yourself.
That's a good thing.
What matters now is how yourespond to that awareness.
So let's talk about that.
How does being on the awakenedpath apply specifically to
(11:54):
foundation of self work?
Well, this is wherenon-judgment and gentleness come
to the rescue.
So remember, non-judgment isthat magic elixir that we carry
with us on our path of innerwork.
It helps us to look objectivelyand lovingly at where we are
misaligned.
Awareness is the tool that weuse to look objectively at our
(12:18):
wounded thought patterns andbehaviors and actions.
So we're carrying thenon-judgment with us so that we
can use that magic elixir assoon as we hit that awareness of
oh crap, I'm still pissed offby my adopted stepsister, or
whatever.
So that's non-judgment, that'sawareness.
And then gentleness is thesalve that we apply to the
(12:41):
wounds we uncover as you clearout internal misalignments and
perhaps become aware ofimpatience with your progress.
This is where non-judgment andgentleness come into play.
You need patience, love andgentleness as you work through
(13:02):
old wounds.
Remember that those wounds werethere a lot longer than you've
been awake, so it will take timeto change old patterns.
Thanks to neuroplasticity.
That's possible.
It's been proven that the braincan change how it processes
information, based on retraining.
(13:22):
And that's what part of thiswork is about.
Now, this awareness that we arepart of the whole may seem
counterintuitive toself-development If there is no
self per se.
What's the point?
Well, this is the paradox.
In one of the minor Vedic texts, the Tejubindu Upanishad,
(13:46):
satchitananda is explained likethis this is the realization of
Atman.
Atman is your individual soul,your true self.
I am the nature ofconsciousness.
I am made of consciousness andbliss.
I am non-dual, pure in form,absolute knowledge, absolute
(14:09):
love.
I am changeless, devoid ofdesire or anger.
I am detached.
I am one essence, unlimited,utter consciousness.
I am boundless bliss, existenceand transcendent bliss.
(14:29):
I am the Atman that revels initself.
I am the Sat-Chit-Ananda thatis eternal, enlightened and pure
, sound, familiar.
All of this I am stuff.
Well, that's the name of God InExodus 3.13-3.14,.
(14:54):
When Moses asks God, whom shallI tell?
The Israelites is sending me tothem, and God says I am that I
am.
Tell them I am sent me to you.
So you see, your awakened selfis the realization that you are
one with the divine.
That's how vital you are.
(15:15):
You are a breath of the divine.
Your individual life is theuniverse source, god, great
spirit, great mystery, pureconsciousness experiencing
itself, and your contribution isessential to the whole.
(15:36):
A community is only as healthyas the individuals that comprise
it.
Think about that If you make acake using rotten or spoiled
ingredients, is it still a cake?
Sure, but it is not a good one.
We are all ingredients in thecake of pure consciousness.
That's why it behooves you todo your inner work and to shine
(16:00):
your unique light in this world.
Building a strong foundation ofself is your commitment as an
ambassador of source.
Now that you have the basics,what inner work is?
The importance of practicingnon-judgment, how to use the
tool of awareness in your innerwork, how to apply gentleness to
(16:23):
your growth and what it meansto be on the awakened path, we
can begin to look at practicalapplications for foundation of
self-work, and we'll begin withself-talk a good place to start
considering the name of thispodcast.
Until then, be gentle withyourself.
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