Chad McCoin: Black River Black & Tans

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Canines are our passion.

(00:10):
They are our addiction.
They are our way of life right down to the very core and without them we would be lost.
The canines of this world really are something to behold.
They assist us at work, they accompany us at home, and they perform for us in the field.
No matter where we go, they are by our side.

(00:32):
Canines really are a ride or die, and for that we are grateful.
This podcast will showcase working canines of various breeds and disciplines as we search
for those canines and their handlers who are always striving to be the best at what they
do.
Those who are always grinding.
Those who are always pushing the limits.

(00:52):
Those who are always dogging.
Join us on our adventures as it is sure to be a wild ride.
I'm your host, Bryce Matthews.
And I'm your co-host, Stephen Basham.
And this, this is Semper Doggen.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Semper Doggen podcast.

(01:17):
Guys, I am your host Bryce Matthews and today I am flying solo.
I was actually able to come over here to our guest house, Mr. Chad McCoyne from Hartford
City, Indiana lives over here close to where I work.
So we're able to do an in-person interview today, which is always better than if we have
to do them over the phone, over Zoom, however we have to do those.
In-person is always better.

(01:38):
So Basham is going to skip out today and we're just going to ride solo.
So Mr. Chad, how are you today, brother?
I'm doing great.
That is awesome.
So guys, we're going to get to talking here with Chad.
He has done a ton of winning with black and tans.
As long as I've known Chad, he's been toting around a black and tan.
We're sitting here in his hunting room and I can't even count how many grand 16 trophies

(01:59):
are in the wall.
We've got high scoring dog trophies.
We just have a hunting room full of trophies, all done black and tans, which, you know,
it's not to, not to sound however you want to call it, but it's just not very popular
these days.
A lot of times them Walker dogs are the ones up top and y'all hear us give everybody a
bunch of crap.
But Chad has been one who has stuck tried and true to his breed of choice.

(02:21):
He's a black and tan man and we're going to learn all about it today.
So Chad, I'm ready to get into it, buddy.
Okay.
I'm ready.
All right.
So let's just start off here.
You know, give us a little bit of background.
Like how did you start coon hunting?
Who'd you start going with?
What was your influential growing up?
I guess with the black and tan breed.
Well, before black and tan breed, my dad always coon hunted.

(02:41):
So like when I was younger, he'd take me and he'd hunt whatever tree of coon.
That's when coons was worth a little bit of money.
So we'd go out and you know, just extra cash.
So he's a pleasure hunter.
He did competition hunter or anything like that.
So we had walkers, whatever, blue dogs.

(03:02):
So for years, you know, I wanted a dog and dad kind of got out of it for a minute when
the coons, the prices went down.
So I decided, well, I want to start hunting and that knew a guy named Jack.
I think his name was Jack Elliott and he was a, he had Walker dogs and he brought some

(03:24):
and he was from Illinois and he brought some young dogs over and we went to the woods down
the road.
So when we went out and they was only like six months old, we turned them loose.
They ran in there and treated coon.
I was like, wow.
But I, you know, at the time he, he only wanted like $600 a piece.
And we were like, well, dad's like, I think we better get an older dog.

(03:45):
Well, probably should have bought them cause they ended up being nice grand nights.
And you know, I think one of them's name was Brownie if I remember right.
But so anyways, we, dad would go to Kenton and all that we'd go over there.
He'd buy a whole bunch of dogs.
We'd bring them home, see if any of them was any good.
Man that, that is getting Ohio, right?

(04:05):
Yep.
I've heard people talk about that for the last month.
I, for whatever reason, that event in place just keeps getting brought up.
And I never got to experience that, but I heard that was a heck of a deal.
It was, it was wild over there.
I mean, it was more than just coon dogs.
It was more than guns, just people falling over drunk.
Yeah.
I heard it was just rowdy.

(04:25):
Yes, it was.
So ended up dad bought some trade dogs.
They tree coons.
They wasn't too bad.
And I remember I bought a, there was a guy named Bob Welder down in Greenfield, Indiana,
and he had a blue dog named Gator.
So we go down there to try old Gator.
Yeah, I think he wanted like a thousand for him.

(04:47):
We tried him.
He treated a couple coons, but then the guy backs out on selling him to us.
So we're like, okay.
So I go back home.
Well, he didn't want to sell him.
After we tried him, he treated a few coons.
And I think it was, I bought some pups off of him and they ended up, he was bred to that
Spring Hill blue Jenny, who's like the all time reproducer.

(05:10):
And he was just a PR dog and she was too, I think.
And I guess that whole litter ended up like four or five of them titled.
Well, one of them I had named Rebel.
And at eight months old, he was like tree and coons.
Like you wouldn't believe.
Well, Bob called me up and he wanted to trade Gator for Rebel.

(05:32):
So I ended up going down there.
He traded me and I think I gave him $200 and traded.
Got Gator.
And Gator was just a coon tree and fool.
He chewed real bad on the tree.
So the two would get him.
I put him in a couple hunts when I was younger.
And I won, I think I got third in the Governor Cup qualifier over Union City when that was

(05:53):
a club.
So I was always nervous going to the hunts.
I think I don't even know if I was 16 yet or I might've been 16.
I think I was just driving.
But I remember I'd go to the hunts and just be all nervous all day long.
But the two got him numerous times and he was a litter mate to that Broadax Max who

(06:13):
was on the reproducers list for a long time.
But Gator ended up living until I'd say he was 16 years old before.
That's a pretty good age for a hound dog.
And my dad would hunt him some.
So I ended up over at Kenton that Freeland White used to set up and sell pups out of

(06:34):
the Black River dogs.
I have heard that name.
I've probably been talking to you.
So Freeland, he'd go over there and set them up.
So I remember going to Autumn Oaks one year and there was a kid named Dustin Bells had
this dog sitting, he had like a flyer made up that said Black River Hammer.
And he was a little over a year old.
And I remember asking him, what do you want for the dog?

(06:55):
I think it was 900 bucks on the flyer.
And I was like, you take 500 for it.
Ah, wheeling and dealing.
And he was like, no, no, I will not.
So I take the flyer home with me.
And Gator was getting up there in age.
And so dad would hunt him and I had some other blue dogs.
They were okay.
They were just, you know, they were tree cooned.

(07:17):
But I wanted something that maybe I could competition hunt a little bit.
So I remember that boy, I called him up.
It was, oh, I'd say a few weeks after Autumn Oaks.
And he said he'd sold the dog, but he was going to get him back because the good dog
went to Virginia or something and he went too far.
I was like, okay.

(07:38):
So I remember when he got him back, he called me up said he needed truck insurance money.
And I think he was still in high school.
And you're how old at this point?
I'm probably, well, this was probably 23 years ago.
That's probably about 19, 20 years old.
He calls me up and says, Hey y'all, I need truck insurance money.
It's like 700 and some dollars.

(07:59):
Like, sure, you know, come over here and we'll try him.
So he brings him over and he brings, I think he was hunting some red bones for them Copeland's
like them Copeland red hot red bones back in the day.
And we turned, I had this blue dog, the name, uh, oh, what was his name?
Sam.
Sam was pretty good dog.

(08:20):
We turned them loose and hammer treat five Coons on him.
I was like, Oh my, you know, I was like, all right, I'm going to have to try to wheel and
deal and get this dog.
Yeah.
So ended up, I asked him like, what, like what's the bottom dollar?
And then I think I had to give him $675 and a 22 and I had, you just had the wheel and

(08:43):
deal.
You cannot make a deal with somebody without wheeling and dealing with them.
I know.
Goodness gracious.
It just cracks me up.
Every time I've ever heard you tell a story, you're willing to deal with somebody.
You got to deal with somebody.
So I had old hammer and I really didn't competition hunt much then I was just more of a pleasure

(09:03):
hunter and I think, I don't know if I took him to a hunt till he was maybe five, four
or five.
I don't, I'm trying to remember when I actually really started taking him to the hunts, but
I remember I'd always get real nervous going to the hunt.
They're like, I wouldn't hunt all summer long and then be like, Oh, there it's October.
Let's start getting the dog ready.

(09:25):
And so then I ended up looking the book and he'd be like, Oh, there's a hunt this weekend.
So let's go to it.
And I hadn't hunted him all summer.
I ended up making him night champion.
So I mean, that was a big deal to me.
I thought, Oh my, I got a good dog.
Yeah, absolutely.
He's a night champion.
So I remember going to, I took him to black and tan days, got him branded, you know, cause

(09:49):
that guy would do it over there.
Doing like freeze branded, do the freeze brand and got him branded.
And it didn't turn out very well on him.
What'd you put on it?
See him.
Okay.
Just for your name.
Just my name.
I didn't know if it was like the BR for black room.
No, just put CM.
But I remember, so I was like thinking, well, I was always on the UKC message board looking
for dogs.

(10:10):
And I remember seeing a dog.
It was in Missouri listed.
His name was dark Timber Scooby Doo and he was a night champion.
He was like 16 months old.
And I'm like, Oh, he's, he's gotta be good.
You know, he's a night champion.
I think the guy wanted 3000 for it.
And I tried to do the guy, he wouldn't take 2,500 or nothing.
So I'm like, well, I guess so.

(10:31):
I mean, the guy, and I said, can I try him?
He's like, Oh, I got all these people that said he's here.
You can call this guy, you call this guy.
So the guy met me, I think it was in Brazil and at plot days and he met me down there
and I picked the dog up, gave him 3000 for him.
So I brought him home and I'm thinking, man, I got, got me a good one.

(10:51):
Yeah.
I turned him loose behind the barn with another dog I had as an English dog.
Cause I didn't care what color at the time I had.
And they was running a track and all of a sudden they got real far away sounding them
like, well, that's weird.
And all of a sudden had the old beep beep and it was saying they was getting closer
to me, but I could barely hear them.

(11:13):
They went in a tile and got in about a half a mile underground.
Oh no.
I remember I called my dad.
It was like one o'clock in the morning.
He come down and we dug and we dug at a riser and we got down there where the tile switched
over into a smaller or to a bigger tile.

(11:33):
And we dug them out, got them out.
Actually the little female actually went plumb through.
She went probably three quarters of a mile through and got out at the road.
But I got him out Scooby out.
So then I was all nervous, you know, to turn the dog loose.
And so I got insurance on the dog, you know, $3,000 at the time to me was a lot of money.

(11:55):
So okay.
So insurance on a dog.
I always thought that was like something relatively new, but this has been around for a while
then.
That's had to be around.
Well, that was almost 20 years ago.
Yeah.
And they were okay.
So I think I bought, I got insurance on him at state farm.
It was like $600 for the year.
Yeah.
So I get this insurance.

(12:16):
So then I would start hunting stuff.
The thing was he wouldn't hardly hunt by himself.
And then when he did tree, he treated more possums than he ever did.
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know, this dog, I tried, like I took him out with hammer and
hammer destroyed.
Like I was like, Oh, I got a good screw in here.

(12:37):
Yeah.
So then I ended up having to trade him to our buddy, Shane.
Oh, Shane Smith.
Shane Smith.
And Shane did some concrete work for him.
And then Shane ends up trading for like a pontoon boat.
So this dog just got passed.
He got passed around.
Well then end up Timmy Waters over in Ohio ends up with the dog.
Yeah.
I think Scott Stewart might've owned him and Timmy was hunting him for him.

(13:02):
And they had AKC black and tan days over there.
Timmy had never hunted this dog.
Timmy takes that dog and he wins that Kawasaki mule.
Come on.
It was like $14,000.
What?
I'm like, you know, I had this dog over a year and a half and I couldn't do that.
I mean, he, and uh, I think Timmy ends up selling him to a guy in Georgia or whoever

(13:23):
owned him at the time, sold him to a guy in Georgia.
I think Bobby Vandenberg or something like that.
And he wins a pro hunt, like a $4,000 pro hunt with this dog.
And I'm thinking, man, this dog wouldn't do nothing for me.
He wouldn't hunt by himself.
Yeah.
So that was always like my pet peeve.
If they wouldn't go hunting, there's no way that I wanted them.

(13:44):
Well you fixed that now, didn't you?
We'll get into that later, but goodness gracious, we fixed that problem.
Yeah.
But then I, you know, hammer, I made him a night champion.
And then I remember, uh, I didn't know what his bloodline really came from.
And I remember getting on the UKC message board and asking like, does anybody know Dana

(14:04):
and Freeland white?
Like know these dogs.
So Ken Adair from New York messaged me and he says, I own Sally, which is Hammer's mom.
And he bought her from Dana and they was pushing her in a PKC race up there in New York.
And uh, so he gave me their number and I called them and we started talking.
Well I wanted another dog and ended up buying a dog named pipe Creek black magic.

(14:27):
It was out of pride, pipe Creek black magic named blackie.
I called her black river blackie.
And that she was like six, seven months old when I went up there and picked her up and
they was just pleasure hunters, Dana and Freeland, but they knew what it took to have a competition
style dog.
The blackie was more, I just really pleasure hunted more than when she ended up being a

(14:50):
nice dog.
But then I wanted to get serious about competition hunting and Dana and me, we always talked
all the time on the phone.
And he ended up calling me and said he had a nice dog named buddy.
And it was our Sally's litter mate brother and a female that was a Nelson's Northern
cash female.

(15:11):
And he said, this dog needs to go where he can be pushed.
He is a nice young dog.
I don't think he was 13 months old or so.
So I ended up having a guy meet me at a love's truck stop and brought him down to me.
I bought him off in Dana and started hunting.
This night, I take him out and he gives in there and gets treated.
I was hunting him with hammer.

(15:31):
I was thinking, Oh man, he just smoked old hammer.
And I go in there and as a possible, Oh boy, second, Oh my God, here we go again.
Yeah.
And I called Dana up and I was like, man, I said, yeah, he beat old hammer for sure.
And he's like, Oh yeah.
So then, you know, it buddy was the one I feel like it put me on the map.

(15:52):
Right.
And you still carry the black river name, like all your dogs are still black river.
Yep.
And I didn't realize that that wasn't something you'd come up with.
You kind of just transferred that on.
So do you feel like, you know, in today's age, you're still associated with the original
line of black river or people like distinguish Chad McCoy's black river dogs from the Freeland
whites black river dogs?

(16:13):
I feel like, you know, I don't mind carrying their name over because that's the line of
dogs that they, they started probably 40 years ago.
I don't even know.
I mean, I've had it for 23 years.
Right.
So that, that's not a big issue.
I just feel like, you know, I just, it's really, I can't say that it's my name.

(16:35):
Right.
They started it, but I'm the one that put them in the hunts.
Yeah.
And made them known.
Yeah.
I just know that like, so take me for example, primarily a Walker guy and fairly new to the
scene, you know, within the last 10 years of the competition stuff, when I hear black
river, I think Chad McCoy.
I guess that's what I think.
Well, I would say that because they don't, um, competition, right?

(16:57):
So they're really not going to be known for that.
If they was going to the hunts, probably back in the day and winning like they would, you
know, that I have with these dogs, then they would probably be more known for that.
So, so you had buddy and you had blackie.
Yeah.
You bred them too, right?
I bred them too.
And is that like where your foundation started with those two dogs?
No, I would say, so I bred them too, through a couple of decent dogs.

(17:21):
I'm trying to think.
So Dana ended up having a dog named Buffy who, when I bought buddy, he had just bred
her bred buddy to a dog named Kate, which was a black river bred dog too, which was
ACE bred.
Okay.
Send him up a spread and he bred her.

(17:41):
And so I bought buddy.
He ends up, she has, I'm trying to think how many pups, uh, five maybe.
I'm not sure, but anyhow, I remember we always talked all the time and he said he had a nice
one.
I think he called her spaz at the time.
This female and the female, he goes, so I go up there to get her and me and Brad, my

(18:04):
buddy, Brad Hile, he's partners on my dogs.
Now we go up there and we buy two dogs off of buddies is that first litter he had and
the dog's name.
I ended up calling her Buffy and I think Dana called her spaz.
And then Brad bought a dog named boy, black river boy.
So we go up there and we get them and Buffy was buddy's first cross.

(18:26):
And she was just an outstanding competition dog.
And I kind of hunted dogs off a Buffy first, right?
Cause you had a Buffy too.
Yep.
I've had Buffy three.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
I've had, so I feel like, and I bred Buffy to my old hammer dog, Seaman.
Okay.

(18:46):
And that's where I got a dog named Muffy.
Okay.
So I mean, there's a lot, there's just so many different dogs that I've had, but I normally
hunt the dogs that's off of my females that I've had, right?
Like Sadie, you know, Sadie was off a buddy and Jeff Nelson's Mandy two dog.
Like, I mean, there's just a whole line of, and then rapper who's, I think probably the

(19:09):
second cross off a buddy.
And he was bred to a female that Dana had that's name was Hazel black river Hazel.
Yeah.
So I think rapper is the first dog I could think that I like can thinking back through
the old memory bank.
Like I think rapper is the first dog that I was like associated with you.
Cause everybody was like, you know, this dog is off a rapper or they would talk about how

(19:29):
Chad used to push rapper and do all this stuff.
So rapper is like the first dog that I remember associating with you.
And rappers actually still alive, but he's like 13 and a half years old.
Oh, he's out there in the kennel.
He's out in the fence row.
I got a big pen out in the fence row that he can just run, you know, it's a big area
for him to.
Oh, we get done with this podcast.
I'm going to say hi to rap.

(19:50):
Cause I didn't realize he was still living.
He's still alive.
So you've got these dogs that are living like 13, 16, something years old.
Like that's pretty good for hounds.
And then I've had some diet at a young age, like Muffy ended up dying at like a four years
old.
Really?
Yeah.
But hers, she got hung in a tree.
So Muffy is a female that was off a butt or off a hammer and Buffy and every hunt win

(20:12):
that she had, she ended up being a grand night and she wanted all the major events.
She's won a winter classic.
She wanted an autumn Oaks, black and tan days.
I'm trying to think where else.
Leopard hound day she won.
So all her big wins was at major events, not just a local club hunt.

(20:32):
Yeah.
But then she won the baby stakes.
So the first time I ever took, she'd only been out like nine times ever.
Take her to the baby stakes.
I remember she goes in there, trees a coon, another dog's make a bunch of slicks.
I go the next round.
All these other dogs are making slicks.
She don't know what she's doing.

(20:53):
She gets struck in there and at the end of the hunt, she gets treed and it's on a dent
tree.
I was naive.
I was thinking, well, man, I got to find this coon.
And it was like, everybody's congratulating, because I'm the only one that made a legit
tree.
And you're hunting PKC.
So you had a legit tree and didn't have no minus.
So she wins the baby stakes.

(21:14):
But she ends up getting hung in the tree when we was pleasure hunting and she was in there
treed.
The next thing I know, she just shut up.
And then she goes back to training probably two, three minutes after she had been treated.
And I go in there and I told my brother-in-law, I said, man, look at that collar hanging in
the tree.
And there was a garment collar had slipped off her neck and it was probably five, six

(21:38):
foot up on a, like a stick.
It was off the side of this tree.
Well, what that done, and I didn't realize this, is it damaged her, um, her vocal cords
and her windpipe.
So she ends up having laryngeal paralysis.
She ends up getting pneumonia.
So Basham, that dog that he's pushing, Buddy, he has laryngoidal paralysis.

(22:00):
I didn't realize that was a thing, but it, like that messed him up bad and they don't
know what caused it.
But you'd go to hunting whenever it'd get hot and he'd be like, like you couldn't breathe.
And then his voice went out and you can't hunt him when it's hot, but they diagnosed
him with laryngoidal paralysis.
So that's interesting.
So she, she, her voice went to crap and I noticed she started gagging a lot in the kennel

(22:22):
and I was thinking, huh, this is before my sister was, she was actually in vet school.
My sister was, and I take her to my local vet and they was like, she's got pneumonia
and something else is going on.
So we act like my sister owned this dog.
Cause at Purdue, if you own the dog, it'd be at price.
That's right.
This is Brooke's precious little house dog.

(22:44):
We take it over there, take her over there and she stays over there.
They do all kinds of tests and I actually had quite a bit of money wrapped up in it,
even at half price.
And to find out she had laryngal paralysis and they thought they could do a tie back
surgery on her like they do on race horses.
And so I was like, go ahead and do it.
And they called me up and she had no gag reflex and they said they couldn't do it.

(23:10):
Okay.
And so they told me I had to retire her for good.
And they said, I said, well, I guess I'll just breed her.
And they said, well, we don't recommend that.
Well, this is where I was like, well, how's breeding going to affect her?
Yeah.
So I ended up breeding her wrapper and she ended up dying a week before she had her pups.
Oh no.
So all that stress on her, and I mean, I was, it bothered me because they told me not to

(23:34):
Brooke told me not to.
I didn't listen.
Right.
I mean, I'm a pure fat when I tell you not to do something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I've been guilty of that as well.
Sometimes you just think, you know better and you know the dog and well, I'm just going
to chance it anyways.
And yeah, I mean, it ain't no good.
If you got a pup, your dog get to have pups and ends up passing.

(23:54):
I mean, it was horrible.
Like I said, she was a week from having her pups and I came out here and she was gone.
Yeah.
That's awful.
Yeah.
So looking around here, like I see at least five grand 16 trophies.
Should be six.
Is there six of them?
Yeah.
Maybe I can't count or maybe I'm missing one behind everything else.

(24:17):
Let's talk about the grand 16 cause that is a hunt that has alluded me this whole time.
I have missed it by a quarter.
I've missed it by 50.
Like I cannot break into the grand 16.
Let's talk about some of the success you've had and which dogs you did it with.
So Buddy was the first time I ever got into it with him.
I think he got, he scored seven 50, 800 one night there at the grand 16.

(24:40):
So I advanced to the grand 16.
This I think this might've been the second or first year that they had that different
format that they did this.
And I remember you had a deadline by a certain time.
We ended up, I remember we turned loose.
I think you had 90 minutes, but the deadline was real early and we drove like 30 minutes,

(25:03):
you know, to go hunting.
I remember we got into with another cast and had to call timeout and Buddy was treed and
I couldn't score his tree because we was in with another cast.
We ended up, we couldn't finish our hunt time and so at the time the dog it was when we
just went ahead and that's the guy I want, which was disappointing because I didn't get

(25:24):
a score tree.
But then I got, so Buddy got into grand 16 once, Buffy got in it twice.
Rapper got in it three times and then Gaucho this year got into it once.
But Rapper, like it seemed like that was Rapper's hunt.
He ended up winning night champions one year in first place.

(25:45):
I think I scored 11, 1175 or something with him.
But my buddy Mike Po handled him a couple times and got him in the grand 16.
Then I would take over from there.
But Buffy got me in the final four once and the old girl, I think she was eight or nine
and I hardly, this is one thing I've been blessed with.
These dogs don't need to be pounded.

(26:07):
Like a lot of people pound these dogs.
Old Buffy, I think I was, Rapper ended up getting limes that year and he wasn't looking
too hot and so I didn't take him so I subbed her in and she ends up scoring 850 and getting
in.
Well then I get into the final four with her and it was this bad luck.

(26:30):
I think Jamie Eastup won it that year when he was hunting around a bunch of hot wire
fences and I remember right out of the get go she gets treed and another dog, I think
Nick Brady was on the cast too and the coon jumps out of the tree into the creek.
So I get minused.

(26:51):
And she swims, goes on down and trees the coon.
Plus that up.
But I took 125 minus right off the get go.
So then ends up, we go out in these cow pastures.
She gets shocked by the hot wire fence.
I can't find us for that.
It was just horrible bad luck when it come to that.

(27:13):
But Rapper, he, I don't know, he would shine at the Autumn Oaks.
He would always put up a big score.
Either me or Mike was hunting him.
And then I went on a kind of a drought for a while, I couldn't get no big scores.
I was going to say between Rapper and Gaucho, there's quite a few years there, right?
I would say it was probably four or five years before, since I'd been in the Grand 16 again.

(27:42):
And there was a pup off of Rapper then, Riley Lewis, his Grady dog.
He ended up winning national.
He didn't get in the Grand 16, but he got the national grand night for the Black Dogs.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, so Grady, he was off of Rapper.
And then, like I said, it's probably, I'd have to look in my yearbook to see, but it's
probably been five years or so.

(28:03):
And then Gaucho this year, he had a good score, had my buddy Mike guide me.
And it's a coon zoo over there.
We should have gotten Mikey on this podcast.
This would have took a whole different turn.
I mean, we could have like probably aired this into the Comedy Central side if old Mikey
had been on here.
He'd be shit talking all day.

(28:25):
That's hilarious.
So, okay.
Like I said, guys, you guys know Semper Dog, and we talk about anything and everything.
We go down rabbit holes here.
I want to go down one here real quick with the, and we'll come back.
We'll get back on track with the timeline, but you just said, go back and look at your
yearbook.
That is one thing that I think the Black and Tan Association does absolutely fantastic.
If you guys have not seen a yearbook for the Black and Tan Association, you need to find

(28:47):
somebody that hunts a black dog and is a member.
Just become a member yourself.
I'm a member of the Black and Tan Association, and I'm even not black dogs, but they put
out a hardcover yearbook every year that is, it's great.
Like it is fantastic.
Oh yeah.
And it chronologically syncs everything throughout the year, right?
I mean, doesn't it start at like the Grand American and then it goes all the way through?

(29:07):
Is that how it works?
Yeah.
I mean, it's all the major hunts, the Black and Tan sectionals, they'll all be in there,
like the pitchers and everything.
Everybody that won at the Zones, TOC, every hunt that's out there, it's going to be there.
All the big hunts.
Yeah.
I think they do a great job with that.
So kudos to the Black and Tan Association because that's fantastic.
Okay.
So Autumn Oaks, you've had really good luck there.

(29:29):
Another event that I've seen you shine at is Winter Classic.
Yes.
You guys have had a bunch of very nice scores.
You've, what have you, you've got second, Winter Classic.
Did you win it?
No, I've got reserve overall two years in a row.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
I didn't think you'd want it yet, but still like that's, that's impressive to take, you
know, dogs from Indiana go all the way down to Batesville, Mississippi.

(29:53):
It's a totally different environment, totally different type of hunting and shine.
And that's a hunt too.
I want to get your input on this.
Like what do you think favors the Black and Tans and even the Blue Ticks?
Because the Winter Classic, I mean, it's been, if you look throughout the last 10 years,
the Walker dogs don't win it as much as your Black and Tans, your Blue Ticks.

(30:14):
What, what, what about that hunt do you think favors you guys?
You know, I don't know if it's cause the leaves are off.
I'm not saying Walker dogs are all slick triggers because it's proven that Walker dogs are the
elite dog.
You know, they win everything, but I really don't know what it is, the difference, because
you know, I've, it's just, it's hard to explain.

(30:38):
Yeah.
And the Blue dogs and the Black dogs, I feel like they most normally have a better nose,
but even up here, the Walker dogs still dominate.
Right.
So let's talk, let's go back and forth here.
Why do you think that that is?
Do you think it's speed?

(31:00):
What do you think it is coming from a guy who is a Black and Tan man?
Do you think it's accuracy?
Do you think it's, what do you think it is?
Why do you think the other breeds are not where the Walkers are?
And that's just the facts.
Like that's not opinions.
I think a lot of it has to do with speed and accuracy.
And my Black dogs in general, they hunt more like a Walker dog.

(31:22):
I mean, you've hunted with them.
A lot of other people will say, that's not a Black dog.
Because they're not lazy and they're fast about what they do.
Now mine's not the type that's going to sit and grab on a track all night.
Right.
You know, they're looking for a coon they can tree.
Did you make them that way or is that natural?
That is natural.
I'm not in the man making dogs.
Right.

(31:42):
Like I said, I'm not out here beating and shocking.
You know, my dog is what he is.
Right.
Okay.
Let's talk about what I would say is your most prominent dog.
We've talked about Rapper.
He was one of your foundation dogs.
You had Buddy.
He was a foundation dog.
You got a dog right now, Black River Lefty.

(32:03):
Let's go into the story of Lefty.
Tell me about where you got him to where he is now.
And I'm probably going to interject a few times, but let's talk about Lefty.
So Lefty, I bred him.
I bred Poncho, which is my.
Poncho, we didn't even talk about Poncho.
How did we skip Poncho?
Poncho is Hall of Fame now.
Okay, hold on.
Stop.
Rewind.

(32:24):
Back to Poncho.
Let's talk on Poncho because you just made him Hall of Fame last week.
Yep.
Okay.
Let's talk about Poncho for a minute.
He deserves some credit here.
That dog was at 50 UKC cast wins.
He's Hall of Fame right now.
Oh yeah.
So Poncho, he was off of my hammer dog and my buddy Brad had a female name North Ohio
Embry.
She was a granite female.
She was off of Splitter and Honeycutt Abbey.

(32:45):
And we bought her when she was like a year and a half old.
And she was a nice dog.
She was chomped mouth all the way.
So we ended up breeding her to Buddy.
And then a couple of them made okay dogs.
We bred her to rapper.
You know, got some decent dogs out of it.
And I was like, Brad's like, I always liked Hammer.

(33:06):
Hammer was one of his favorites because Hammer was just a dead loner, big hunting dog.
So we bred, we used the frozen semen on her.
Ends up, she has three pups.
And Poncho was one.
And I ended up giving Poncho as a puppy to Trace Craig, my buddy Trace.
He lives in Bluffton.
He's about 40 minutes away.

(33:26):
Trace is a real good puppy guy.
So Trace comes down and gets him.
I think Poncho was, he'd always keep me in the loop.
Trace don't competition hunt.
He just knows, he knows how to train a dog.
Gets them going good.
I remember he called me and he's like, I'm ready to sell him.
I was like, all right.
He priced him to me.
It was very reasonable.
I'm not going to say it, but it was very reasonable.

(33:50):
And I buy him, I think he was 12, 13 months old.
I take him out.
I think he's just training coon after coon.
And Poncho was a big hunting dog, big locate, just a hundred plus on a tree.
Very classy dog.
But then remember kill season come in, I was driving to the woods on my Ranger and a possum

(34:14):
runs out in front of me and he has yet to tree a possum.
I hit this possum in my Ranger.
I was like, no big deal.
I turned him loose.
This is the like first night of kill season.
He trees five possums in a row.
Oh no.
I'm thinking, he's not treating any possum.
So he had a little possum problem there for a minute.

(34:36):
And I'm not saying he's completely broke at seven years old, but he's still, he's
gaming let's just say, but I got him where he'd leave them.
But Poncho, I've won a lot of hunts with him and he's been very consistent and he has showed
up at the right times.
He's impressed a lot of people.

(34:56):
He's won at the winter classic numerous years.
There's a hunt at the black and tan days, the classics champion.
I think he's been in the final four, four times.
He's won at once.
I've been in the triple crown.
He got second, he tied for first in the triple crown, but I got beat on the points when it
come to actual scores.

(35:19):
Try and think Poncho is, I mean, he's won at the TOC.
He's won his cast of world hunts.
He's won lots of, he's been qualified for the world hunt about every year.
And he's a dog, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you need somebody to step in and handle
that dog, he's going to hunt for Poncho, right?
He doesn't hunt just for you.

(35:40):
No, Poncho hunts good for me other than Brad.
Poor Brad.
Poor Brad.
Brad and him do not have, they have like a love hate relationship.
Now Brad's won some cast with him.
And Brad broke him out this year at autumn Oaks and he hadn't been out since the winter
classic and he wins his cast.
And the Poncho, like I said, he's been very consistent.

(36:04):
First dog I ever made Hall of Fame.
He would have actually probably made Hall of Fame earlier in the year, but he ended
up getting sick and we thought he had lymphoma and he actually has blasto.
That's seven years old.
And he's been being treated for it.
And I actually took him to the hunt because he needed that one more win and he hadn't

(36:24):
been out since autumn Oaks.
He'd been out three times this year.
Now he's bred a bunch of females all, all year long.
Well, he's kind of the dog that everybody's wanting to go to right now for breeding, right?
Yeah.
A lot of people's bred to him and because he's through, like he throws above average
dogs, maybe the whole litter may not be like outstanding, but there'll be one or two that's

(36:44):
above average.
Right.
And that's what you're looking for.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you got lefty out of Poncho.
Yes.
So I bred him to Sadie, Poncho to Sadie and Sadie was one of my top reproducing females
that I've ever owned.
She was a heck of a dog herself.
Dual Murphy hunted her a few times for me and dual one with her at Black and Tan Days.

(37:06):
Anybody could actually hunt Sadie and win with her because she's always going to be
by herself.
But lefty, that whole cross that lefties off of, I ended up getting the pup.
He was monkey faced.
I called Trace up, said Trace, you want a pup?
Sure.
So he gets lefty as a pup.
He about the same age Poncho was, Trace is done with him when it gets him running and

(37:30):
treading.
He calls me up and he says, I'm ready selling.
So I buy him and I take lefty hunting.
And lefty is one of the wildest dogs.
Actually the first time I ever go hunting with lefty, Trace hadn't decided to sell him
yet.
He's hunting and we're hunting probably mile and a half off the highway.

(37:52):
And lefty trees a coon, he recuts him.
Then he gets on the road and runs down the road to the highway.
And Trace, I'm like, man, we better get down there and get him.
Trace like, all right, worried about it.
And he crosses the highway like three times and there's semis driving by.
I'm like, what is going on?
You know, so we ended up getting him caught.
Then it was probably a few weeks later, Trace sells him to me.

(38:15):
But lefty is a freak of nature when it comes to a black and tan.
I've never seen one that's as, like even as a walker dog, like there's not too many, it's
faster than him.
Like and he, he can be a mile or two miles in a matter of minutes.
And it's natural.
Like that is not, that is not done with the shock button.
That's not done chasing them down.

(38:36):
Like that is just how that dog was born.
It's in his blood.
Yes.
And if you, like the only time he's ever been shocked is I think he run a deer and I shocked
him and hell he just, he wouldn't get treated.
You had to run him down.
So I was like, I learned you don't shock him.
And he's, he is very consistent.

(38:58):
I mean, you've hunted him, you didn't hunt with him, but one time and you'd go down to
black and tan days and you won.
I mean, you dominated.
Yeah, we're going to get into that.
I want to get into black and tan days, but, but I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves.
So but lefty.
Okay.
Let's, let's just pick him apart.
I want, I want to do that because I have questions.

(39:19):
Okay.
Do you think that he had, so he's a freak of nature.
We've, we've talked about that.
He is wild.
He's, he's wired two 40.
The dog has no gear one.
He skipped straight to gears two and three.
Yeah.
Do you think he has the nose, the typical black and tan does?
Because usually I feel like he's flying around and they're, those Coons are easy to find.

(39:40):
Like he, they ain't been up a tree real long.
Yeah.
He's, I would consider him to be more of an ambush style dog because I've seen him strike.
He'll strike quick.
And I think if it's a track he can't handle or he's going to tree real quick, he drops
it and he's looking for the one that he can put up a bush because you don't tree very
many dids.
No.

(40:00):
And he said, you're going to find the Coon 95% of the time and left his tree.
And I've hunted with him in the dead of winter when dual was handling him.
Yeah.
And let me tell you, that was an absolute living hell to hunt that dog in the dead of
winter because he wasn't trein those old tracks that were going into bins.
That son of a gun was going to be here, there and everywhere until he found one.

(40:21):
And if they ain't moving when it's 10 degrees out and you know, quarter inch of snow on
the ground, he just not, he's not going to stop and just pick a tree.
He's running until he finds one.
Like so that kind of, it impresses me to a point where it's like that dog has so much
drive.
But then it's also like, look, if it's like harder, harder conditions, he's not going

(40:42):
to be the dog that you're picking out to grow up a track.
No, he's not fun to hunt, especially when the Coon ain't moving.
I'd want him to take him hunting because you're just going to be driving around looking for
him somewhere up by somebody's house, probably treed, you know, where you're not supposed
to be.
Yeah.
And then, and then like, he, he started turning, turning the heads of a lot of people at a
pretty young age.

(41:04):
What do you, what hunts, are there any memorable hunts that he won where you were like, had
some people looking like, Oh, like that was impressive.
So I went to the super stakes.
I'd been in the super stakes numerous times and it was hard for me to ever, like I could
always win a single cast.
Muffy got doubled up, won the baby stakes, but Sadie Pancho, I won numerous early rounds

(41:27):
and I, even with my Buffy two dog, I want, I want a bunch of early rounds, but I can
never double up.
Well, lefty, the first time I, the first year I take him, he goes down there.
I went early, get beat late, but then he ends up getting the hernia and I had to bring him
back home cause he got sick on me.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.

(41:48):
So lefty's actually missing his left testicle.
I did know that.
So that's what's weird.
I did know that.
So he ends up getting hernia and we're like, well, you know, so I,
I hunted him only one night down there.
He got beat late.
So then the next year he, he heals up from his hernia and all that.
My sister does the surgery and next year I go down there on a Monday.

(42:10):
I go down there, I double up.
Well, I drew some of Ike Rainey's dogs.
Duel Murphy was hunting his dog and lefty put on a show.
Lefty was treading coons as fast as can be and he beat some big name dogs.
And I remember it was in the late round and I was about, I was, we was going to his last

(42:30):
tree to win.
And I remember this guy is like, what would it take to buy that dog?
And I'm like, I set a stupid number because I didn't want to sell the dog.
And I was like, I'm just going to scare him away.
I'm just set a stupid number.
Didn't think nothing of it.
It wasn't the next day.
Duel's texting me saying, I think we're going to buy your dog.
I was like, Duel wasn't even the one asking me for the...

(42:53):
But Duel hunts for Ike.
Yes.
Okay.
So, and you don't, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.
Are you comfortable like sharing what that scary number is?
I mean, it was 40,000.
That's for a, that's for a coon dog in a black and tan nonetheless.
Yes.
That is unheard of.
When I heard that number at Super Stakes, my jaw hit the ground.

(43:15):
I don't know of any, and y'all are going to hang me at the stake for this or burn me,
whatever you're going to do.
I've never heard of any off color dog being offered that kind of money.
No.
And I mouthed the price off.
Like 99% of the people is going to scare them away.
So, so Duel ends up, I, you know, I'm nervous.

(43:37):
I don't want to sell this dog.
And Duel's like, I think we might buy him.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
So I go back Friday to hunt and I'm trying to avoid Duel because I really don't want
to sell my dog.
Right.
But 40 grand, Jack.
That's a ton of money.
It is, but I was like, you know, I didn't really care at the time.
I was like, man, this dog's a good dog.
And this dog can get smoked on the road the way that he hunts.

(43:58):
Yep.
And I remember, so Duel, he didn't, they didn't buy him in the first round and they
ended up drawing Duel and Ike's dog the first round.
And then you beat him.
I beat him.
And Duel's like, we're going to, we want him.
I was thinking, oh my.
So the late round they bought him and I ended up hunting him late and he didn't look very

(44:20):
good.
And the dog, the dog that ended up winning the super stakes is who I drew in the heads
up.
Okay.
Well that makes you feel better.
I think it was that all the burden boys, you know, one of their, their female.
Yeah.
It was Zach burden and screamer.
Yeah.
Screamer not Zach burden.
Sorry.
Um, Sean Burton.
Yep.
And screamer.

(44:40):
Yeah.
So she ends up winning.
She treated Cune.
I think I took a couple of minuses and let me just didn't look very good, but they'd
already signed the check at that point.
So I was nervous.
You know, I was sick to my stomach.
You know, I'd load him up and Brett Denny's dog box and he's heading to Florida and I'm
thinking, oh my gosh, you know, I just sold this dog.
Let's go into that.
Cause you've told me this story before, but like what emotions do you have?

(45:00):
You're driving home from Southern Indiana, Princeton.
You've got a three hour drive.
Yes.
You just sold a dog that is out of the stuff that you have bred.
You, you, you didn't train the dog as a pup, but you know, you got him back.
He's out of your stuff.
Like how are you feeling in that point in time?
I'll be honest.
I was sad.
Yeah.
I was like, yes, you've got 40,000 for a dog, but the money wasn't the thing for me.

(45:21):
You know, I, I got more of an emotional attachment to these dogs, you know?
And I was sick to my stomach for, I made myself sick.
I'll be honest that week.
I got sick the next week.
And I was like, you know, cause I was just worried about it.
Yeah.
And then, you know, I'm thinking, cause I want people to take care of their animals,
you know, and I'm thinking, I want him to be taken care of, you know, this and that.

(45:43):
And I told them, you know, if you ever want to get rid of him, let me know, you know,
and I wanted them to win something big.
Cause I'm not going to go spend these stupid entries.
And yeah.
And for people who might not know, you know, selling a dog to Ike Graney is a big deal
because that was at the time when Ike was pushing everything.
Ike is a money man out of Florida.

(46:05):
He's got some of the best handlers in the country handling for him.
He will buy a dog if he likes it.
He's bought, he's bought some English dogs.
You know, he gave, I think like 20 grand for the bear dog.
That was an English dog.
Yeah.
He doesn't care.
I mean, he has predominantly walkers because that's what's winning.
But if he finds a dog that he likes, he's going to buy that dog, you know, and he has

(46:26):
the funds to back that dog, to push that dog.
If there's ever going to be a dog that gets a chance, it's going to be with the name Ike
Graney on the owner slip.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's the cards all fell into place at the right time for him to look good
with the right people on the cast and make the, you know, make the transaction work.

(46:47):
So your dog, you're sick, you're sad, you're upset, but you know that he's somewhere where
he's going to get pushed and he has an opportunity to do big, big things.
So they, yeah, they get him.
They take him down there and they wanted to win the breed race with him.
They win 3000 some dollars in like just a couple of months.
Are you in communication with them like during all this?

(47:07):
Like how did that work?
Oliver Wynn would message me.
Let me know.
Yeah.
And dual keep in touch about it.
Let me know how he's doing.
And then part of the deal was when I sold him, I wanted to get him collected.
So dual ends up bringing him back up here so I can get him collected.
So I take him, get him collected.
Well, it was getting close to autumn Oaks time.

(47:28):
So I had won at the winter classic earlier in the year with him.
I doubled up down there.
Yeah.
I ended up getting beat.
Oh, I forget.
I got reserve overall.
So I second, I can't remember which dog had actually won, but it didn't beat me by very
much.
And as a lefty looked like a million dollars down there.

(47:51):
I mean, he was this flying through the world, treading coons, but autumn Oaks was coming
up and I told dual, you know, so he was still in my name in UKC.
I hadn't transferred the papers over yet.
So I was like, well, I'm a honey, but I'm Oaks.
They don't care.
And they said, they didn't care.
So I go down there and I win my cast.
Didn't have enough to get in grand 16, but it put him in contentions for the triple crown.

(48:15):
So I'm like, well, the world hunt was coming up.
I entered him in that.
Well, I win at the zones.
Now he's in the top 100.
Well, I can, they're wanting him in their name now.
Yeah, of course.
You know, that's their dog.
And he wasn't mine at the time.

(48:35):
So I go world hunt, get in top 100.
He ends up, we had, it got down that screwy Louie dog of a Mike P or Jeff Pedro.
Jeff Pedro.
Yeah.
Pedro.
He, I think that dog ended up getting fifth that year, but it got down to the wire.
I think he had 350, I had 300 and another dog at 300.
We all treat two coons, but Louie had a better strike.

(48:58):
And so I was world champion black and tan with him that year.
And then dual takes him back to Florida.
I think they hunt him in a truck hunt.
I think it gets in the top 16 of the truck hunt.
But I think they'd won what they wanted to win.
And duals called me up and said they was going to sell him, give me first opportunity.

(49:22):
So I ended up buying him back.
And then I get him back and take him to a few hunts.
And then I have you actually hunting black and tan days.
Yeah.
And I want to talk about black and tan days and this, I, y'all know me.
I just say what's on my mind.
I don't, I don't sugar coat it.
It's just how it is.

(49:44):
You called me up and said, Hey, Brad's going to be busy farming.
Yes.
I need a guy to handle a dog.
Yeah.
And we need, hold on.
We need to rewind a minute before we get into this.
You when, when they had lefty, yes, you purchased another dog.
Oh yeah.
So, so let's get into that.
Let's get into what happened when they had lefty.
You didn't really have nothing to hunt.
Well, young, young to push.

(50:05):
I had poncho.
So I was like, man, I need another dog.
Right.
And they're Dranny Smith down in Mississippi.
And I gave him a pup that he called Gaucho who was off a poncho and a buddy female.
He is like three quarter brother to lefty.
They both was off poncho and they was off buddy females, but they, their moms was out

(50:27):
of difference dogs.
So he'd been winning with a dog named bottom land Gaucho and Gaucho wasn't quite too yet.
And I remember calling Randy up and I said, would you sell me Gaucho?
I didn't tell him I sold lefty.
And, you know, I didn't want people knowing that I sold lefty.
It was kind of hush hush.
Yeah.

(50:47):
I didn't say nothing to nobody.
And Randy's like, well, I don't think I will.
It wasn't five minutes later.
He calls me back.
He's like, I'll sell him to you.
So he gives me a price.
I said, I'll take him.
Randy was like, Oh, okay.
You had that money just sitting there.
I ended up buying him and he, he kept him down there.

(51:10):
He brought him to me at black and tan days.
Had you hung out with the dog before you bought him?
I never hunted with him.
But you just knew that Randy was a dog man.
I knew Randy was a good dog man and he'd trained a lot of good dogs and sold some good dogs.
And so he brings him black and tan days.
I have him hunting down there.
He didn't have no luck and I'd yet to hunt with the dog yet.
I think Pancho got in the final four of the Clint Champions Classic here in Ohio that

(51:35):
year.
So I bring Gaucho home, hunt him.
And he was, I was like, I think he was a dog that took a minute to get used to me.
I was like, well, he's, he's okay.
He just didn't really wow me at the time.
Well then Gaucho, I am one of blue tick days.
He doubled up there and then I started winning some PKC hunts, a pro classic.

(51:58):
I was like, oh, he's consistent.
Like I'm, I'm winning like every cast I put him in.
Then he gets hurt and he has a hernia.
And so the, the night after the pro classic, I come home the next day he's like sick active.
He ends up, my sister knows the vet.

(52:19):
So I call her up.
She's like, bring him in.
We come in there and his left, I think one of his testicles went down into his abdomen
and his intestines.
When she opened him up, was starting to die.
So she, you know, does a certain reconstructs them, puts them back together, takes the bad
part out, puts it back together.

(52:39):
How much did she take out?
This is, this is crazy.
So the first, so he had one surgery where she maybe took six or eight inches.
Okay.
Okay.
And then a few weeks later, I'm out here hosing the kennels down at nine o'clock at night.
And he starts thrashing around in the kid.
I'm like, Oh no.
She I call her up.

(53:00):
She was like, they came loose.
So he's going septic.
So I rushed him up there to the clinic.
She ends up opening him up and she has to remove 80% of his small intestines.
Now I want to get, I want to stop real quick and just throw a big, big plugin for your
sister.
At the time she did this, she's pretty new to owning a vet clinic.

(53:24):
Your sister is not like an established experienced vet at this point.
No, she's 32 years old now.
This is the biggest, this is the biggest operation she's done.
Correct.
Like close to it.
She's done, she done some other surgeries, but I would say this was probably one of the
bigger ones on a dog.
This value, right?

(53:44):
Let's just say, I mean, and she stepped up in there and just took the bull by the horns
and got it done.
And that's one thing I can say about her.
She don't get nervous.
She just goes in there.
Even if she don't know what she's doing, she's figuring it out.
Yeah.
And I'm going to get into that later.
So like I said, guys, we've got some rabbit holes to get into and I'm going to get into
that because I have been super impressed and her name is Dr. Brooke Little.

(54:06):
She runs the Eaton Veterinary Clinic and she's actually my vet now.
But when she did that on Gaucho, like that was a crunch do or literal die moment.
Oh yeah.
And she gave him a 15% chance of living and I'm thinking, Oh my.
So I can't hunt him for three months.
So this is from July to October.

(54:27):
So I end up, he ends up getting healed up, but he still acts like he's sore.
Like when you would hunt him, he would like stretch a lot and he wouldn't eat very good
the next day.
Well, then so he progressively started, he went from 62 pounds.
Okay.
He lost a little bit of weight right after the surgery.

(54:49):
He probably maintained around 56, 57.
But then the more I hunted him, like I noticed he was getting dehydrated and I was like,
man, I can't hunt this dog very hard because he's getting so dehydrated.
When he would go to the bathroom, it's just a total mess.
Like he would have diarrhea like 10 times a day and you know how dehydrated you get

(55:11):
when you have diarrhea.
So I'm trying all this stuff, trying to figure out how to keep weight on this dog.
Ukenuba's, you know, I'm talking to the Ukenuba nutritionist lady.
They're sending me bags of dog food.
We're giving him the stuff that they don't even sell in the stores, you know, trying
to figure this out.
And the key thing was he got down to 47 pounds.

(55:34):
He looked like death warmed.
I mean, I was at the winter classic and I was IV flooding him.
I took four bags of IV fluids, Brooke showed me how to IV him.
Yeah, guys, if you want to talk about dedication to a coon hound and showing the love for these
dogs and how well that hunters take care of these dogs, just take notes right here.
I mean, you took a whole IV setup all the way down to Mississippi.

(55:57):
That way after every round, this dog got the fluids that he needed to compete.
Yes, because he was so dehydrated and he didn't want to eat.
He looked, I mean, I was embarrassed on how he looked.
And you'd walk in front of people, people would be like, you need to feed that dog.
And they're judging that they don't know the story.
They don't know his story.
So he goes down there.
I went at that pro slam they have and ended up getting third overall.

(56:20):
And then he doubles up and gets reserved overall.
He puts on a show, you know, down there for the overall, you know, and he looks amazing.
Well he just like, I'm like, man, there's something we got to do to figure out to get
weighed on him.
Like if you don't, you know, we got to figure it out.
She goes, don't you still put him on that probiotic that I gave you?

(56:41):
I said, I didn't know that I was supposed to keep him on that.
So he had no good gut health.
So he, you know, no good bacteria in him.
So we put him on Perina's Florida flora and the uka Nuba dog food.
And that he gained six pounds in one week.
It just totally transformed.
That's been the key factor right there.

(57:03):
So from then on he's been golden.
And like you can't even tell he's had anything wrong with him now.
Right.
I think he's staying about 58 pounds now.
Yeah.
So, so that brings us to black and tan days is you called me and said, Hey, I'm going
to hunt gaucho.
Yep.
Brad's farming.
He can't get off.
Can you handle lefty for me at black and tan days?

(57:24):
And I'm like, I mean, I guess I can.
I've never hung up the dog.
And I said, we can, we can figure it out, I guess.
And you, you said, all right, let's go hunting one night.
And so we did.
You and I went hunting one night, hunting with lefty and got through the world with
the coon.
That's what he did.
It's all right.
I'm ready to go here.

(57:46):
And on the way down there, you told me something that I will never forget.
You said, Hey, I want you to know something.
I said, all right, what's that?
You said, you have a target on your back and we haven't even walked in the door yet.
Yeah.
And I said, well, why is that?
You said lefty is the highest selling black and tan dog in history.

(58:06):
He has done some of the most winning.
You are a walker man and you're walking into black and tan days.
You know, you said, and, and this is a quote, so y'all don't get mad at me.
You said the black and tan breed has some of the most jealous people in it that you
will meet.
And I took it at face value.

(58:26):
I didn't think much about it until the first night's hunt and boys did it all come to fruition.
Lefty strikes for a hundred and he gets treated for a hundred and a quarter before anybody
else even opened.
He shut them out.
Yeah.
Had a coon deep and lonely.

(58:47):
He gets lost.
The rest of the cast, there's nothing going on here.
There's a house dog barking, but he just goes and gets lost.
He's deep.
He finally gets treated there towards the end of the hunt.
And the judge looks me dead in the eyes and said, you're scratched.
And I said, for what?
He said, that's the dog I've been asking for a call all night.

(59:08):
I said, well, we've been telling you that's a house dog all night.
That ain't my dog.
He said, I'm telling you right now, that's the dog I've been asking for a call and you're
scratched.
Yup.
And we took it back to the club.
And to this day, I will stand on the hill that that is one of the biggest screwings
I've ever taken because that was the champions classic.
Oh yeah.

(59:28):
That dog did nothing wrong.
I did nothing wrong, but we 100% took a screw in there.
I will say that part of it was on my fault at the end of it because after the panel come
down and ruled on it, I was so dag on Matt, I was red in the face and I was ready to come
unglued and I had to walk out rather than just question it and appeal it right there.

(59:51):
Yup.
Had I appealed it, knowing what I know now, we would have won.
I'm not going to say who gave us a phone call the next day, but it was somebody very important
and said, boys, I'm sorry about how that happened, but they got it wrong.
But it was on me and I apologize for that here in front of everybody that I kept him
out of that because I should have appealed it.

(01:00:12):
But I knew in my heart that that was wrong and it pissed me off.
Excuse my language.
It made me so mad knowing that it was a hundred percent out of spite that we lost the cast
and then the panel upheld what was said in the woods.
That made me mad.
Oh yeah.
So let's talk about that and I'm going to circle right back here.

(01:00:35):
We're going to put a note right here.
I'm going to circle right back to what happened after that night.
But let's go back to that comment you said, the blackened tambourine is very jealous.
Why?
What do you see in that?
Well, I can't say that I've never been jealous.
You're always jealous of whoever's winning and is at the top because you want to be that

(01:00:56):
person.
You want them talking about your dog.
And you know, when I was younger, I never understood why certain people would breed
to certain people's dogs because they never won nothing.
I was thinking, why don't you breed to winners, dogs that are winning?
I was winning everything back in the day with Buddy.
I mean, he won at Walker days, first place grand nights, blackened tandays, English days,

(01:01:19):
won first place grand nights, you know, I'm taking a black dog winning and nobody was
hardly breeding to my dog.
They breed the dogs that never really won nothing.
And I just never understood that.
So there was some jealousy on my part when it came to that.
But then I started noticing I wasn't the only one.

(01:01:40):
But when you are winning, people don't like you.
I'll just be honest.
Yeah.
They get jealous.
And you told me something that I also it stuck with me.
You said that one of the differences in the other breeds, why they are not at the level
that the Walker dogs are at is because they would rather breed to somebody in their click

(01:02:05):
or to something in their kennel.
Yep.
Rather than breed to a dog that is winning.
And I believe and I'm not going to quote because I might not get 100 percent, but you said
it doesn't matter if a walker man had if you and if you and another guy in the Walker breed
absolutely hate each other.
If their dog is winning and you have a nice female, you two are going to put your issues

(01:02:26):
aside for just a few minutes until that dog gets knotted up and then puppies are conceived.
That's true.
And then you can go back to hating each other.
But for the most part, the Walker guys are trying to breed best to best.
And it does not matter who owns it.
It doesn't matter who's handled it.
They just want to back on good coon dog because the odds of producing a good coon dog are

(01:02:47):
higher.
I'm no breeder.
I'm not claiming to be a breeder, but my thought process is breed the best of the best and
things will work out.
You know, and we I saw that down there black and 10 days just listening out.
I was a fly on the wall that week.
You know, I sat there and just listened and I could see that like guys talking about this

(01:03:08):
dog from 30 years ago and they're going to breed back to this dog.
They've got semen stored on 15 years and you know, he was the hell of a dog behind the
barn, you know, and it's like nobody was really talking about, hey, what can we do to better
the breed and push the next litter and try and make things go forward?
You know, do you think that's an accurate assumption?

(01:03:28):
Oh, definitely accurate.
I mean, the black and tan breed in general, most of them are pleasure hunters.
You know, they don't want an ambush style dog or big hunting dog.
They want one that will hunt the woods and in today's world in these hunts, you got to
have a dog.

(01:03:48):
It's a big hunting dog.
That's wild and crazy.
That's going to have Coons.
And I feel like there's a handful of people in the black and tan breed that like that,
but there's so much jealousy and it's, you know, you're not going to change that.
I feel like the black and tan breed is the worst when it comes to that.

(01:04:11):
And I've been there and like I said, I've been jealous myself and you shouldn't be,
but I think it's just human nature.
Right.
So going right back to, I said, we were going to put a marker on there.
We get hosed out of the champions classic.
Oh yeah.
Took a screwing bad.
And I remember we were going back to the, we were going back to the tent and you just

(01:04:31):
looked at me and said, I done told you, you said you have a target on your back.
Well, yeah, everybody wants to say they beat lefty.
They don't care how they beat him.
Scratch, whatever they want to say, they beat him.
They want to say they beat him.
Yeah.
And you know, if they can sleep well with it at night, that's fine.
But I didn't sleep worth a darn.
Oh, I know you didn't.
I was, I woke up mad and boys, I'm telling you, I try not to get that way because I don't

(01:04:56):
think it's, it's, it's the right way to be, but it made me so mad that I went out the
next two nights with a dag on chip on my shoulder.
I was like, and I try not to be cocky, but I'm like, listen, I know the rules.
I know that I've got a dog that's capable and y'all want to show me a screwing.
We're just going to put it on you.
The old fashioned way, just train Coons.
I guess just how it's going to be.

(01:05:16):
You did.
I took no prisoners and I'm not trying to be cocky.
Y'all please don't take it that way.
Hear my heart.
I'm just saying it pissed me off.
And I, that dog barked if he stubbed his toe, we're striking for a hundred.
That dog looks up, we're trained for a hundred and a quarter.
Bro one locate, I dare you.
We are trained for a hundred and a quarter.
And that dog went out there and it's not by me.

(01:05:38):
Cause I have nothing to do with lefty.
I've never trained the dog.
Heck, I don't hunt him with him two nights prior to it.
Yep.
But that sucker went out there and put on a clinic and I think he scored like seven
seventy five or something.
Yeah.
You got first two nights in a row.
Absolutely throttled them and, and he did it the right way.
We didn't have to screw anybody.
We didn't have to cheat.
We didn't have to bend the rules.

(01:05:58):
That dog went out there.
He was fast.
He was accurate and he was on a mission.
Oh yeah.
And I was impressed because that's really the first time that I'd ever handled that
dog was that weekend.
Yep.
And like I said, you, we went back Thursday or Friday and Saturday, whatever it was back
to back nights, high scoring dog.
And, and I could almost feel daggers when I like walked in after the hunt, like people

(01:06:25):
were looking cause they knew I was mad and I made it known I was mad.
He was walking around like a little Banny rooster out there.
But like you can just feel it.
It's like they're just looking like, all right, well I guess he like, he meant it, you know,
but the dog, the point is the dog looked absolutely phenomenal and it really, really impressed
me because I'm like, he's looked better than 90% of the walkers that I've turned loose.

(01:06:47):
Oh yeah.
You know, the dog was just so fast about what he was doing and he was accurate.
He had his Coons and it, it was impressive.
Like, and I understand why, you know, I can, they wanted to be a part of that and they
wanted to do something with that, you know?
So I was just, I was super impressed with that.
And, and I thought that, you know, lefty, we're okay.

(01:07:08):
We're up there and I wanted this.
I want to talk about, like I said, I don't claim to be a breeder or anything, but we
had lefty and we had Pancho up there.
Gaucho.
We'd had Gaucho.
Oh, but I took Pancho.
Yeah, I took Pancho.
He had to breed some females.
So we had lefty and Gaucho that we were hunting, but we took Pancho to breed to.
And, and, um, how do I want to say this?

(01:07:30):
I don't want to say people were overlooking lefty, but everybody wanted to breed to Pancho
because Pancho threw lefty and Gaucho.
So they're wanting the people who are looking to go further and take it to the next level
and go to the next tier and make it to the top and be in the final fours.
They're wanting to breed to the dog that through these two proven winners.

(01:07:53):
Yeah.
Are you still breeding to Pancho more than you are breeding lefty?
Yeah, actually I've had more people, you know, I thought more people would want to breed
to Gaucho and lefty is what I thought.
Cause they're what's winning and stuff.
Well Pancho's alive, so they want to breed to what produced lefty and Gaucho.
And he's, you know, he's through some other good dogs too.

(01:08:15):
He's actually on the reproducer's list and I don't know how many Hall of Fame dog, I
know he's the only black and tan Hall of Fame dog that's on the reproducer's list.
So I mean, and Pancho's just seven, right?
You know, lefty just turned four and Gaucho's three.
But I mean, I've bred lefty twice.

(01:08:39):
The first cross is a little over a year old and they've five out of the six have got wins
already.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's lefty is going to reproduce maybe even better than Pancho.
I have no idea.
And Gaucho, we bred a female.
I think it's those Watts guys down there in Georgia that had the black dog that they bought

(01:08:59):
and they hunted at the super stakes.
They bred that dog's mom to Gaucho.
So talking to the owners of lefty's first litter, what does it sound like he's done?
What type of dog does it sound like he's throwing?
He's throwing dogs that hunt extremely well, not to the extreme where it's stupid.
They hunt what you put them in and then they'll go to the next one and they can tree coons

(01:09:25):
like they have better noses than what their dad did.
But this was off of a rapper female too and rapper could tree any type of coon.
I have one I call Hondo and Hondo is extremely like rapper junior and he's off a lefty.
Is he your next big thing?
I took him to hunt a couple of weeks ago and he won his first hunt.

(01:09:47):
He's off by himself.
I think he's going to be my next big one.
So we've covered everything about lefty and let's talk about the differences though.
Lefty and Gaucho, they're both off of Pancho.
Pancho?
They are totally different hunting style dogs.
Totally different.
So what is it about Gaucho's hunting style that maybe you like or dislike?

(01:10:11):
Well Gaucho is more pleasurable to hunt.
You turn Gaucho loose, he's going to hunt that woods out, he's going to go to the next
one.
But Gaucho can tree any type of coon.
He can tree layups to hot ones to any type of coon.
To where lefty is looking more, he's running the edges, he's running straight through the
woods looking for an ambush style.

(01:10:31):
And around here it's kind of dangerous to hunt lefty.
He is a pain, I have like four woods that I can actually hunt him in.
And then the other night I got busted for trespassing.
Boy he just goes too damn far.
He was 200 yards on this guy's property and the guy met me before I got to the tree.
Love it.
It's tier season.
Oh yeah.
He was mad.
Yeah, you love it.

(01:10:52):
Dog is going to get you some new territory.
He always does.
You never know when you turn him loose where he's going to go.
But Gaucho in my opinion is more pleasurable to hunt.
But lefty, I can take either one of them and I feel like I'm going to, I mean I've won
like 43 out of 50 casts with Gaucho.
That's PKC and UKC.

(01:11:13):
Like that's a pretty good percentage.
That's fantastic.
And lefty is the same style.
Like I can win 80% of my cast with him.
You're never out of the game with either one of those dogs.
Yeah, and I mean you took both of them over there to the PKC black and tan hunt right?
Yep.
Here a couple months ago.
Yep.
And we won first and second.

(01:11:34):
Lefty won first and Gaucho won second.
Actually we both won and they just said, well you going to hunt it off?
I said no, might as well let lefty have it all because it almost makes him a gold champion.
Right.
Yeah and to be a gold champion, I mean that's 10 grand.
Yeah.
Like that's, I'm not saying that's substantial, you know, but for the black and tan breed,
there's not that many.

(01:11:54):
For the black and tan breed, that's something.
Yeah.
You know, there's just not that many.
My buddy dog produced a dog named Nelson's Northern Dixie and she's a platinum champion.
That's Jeff Nelson's dog.
Jeff Nelson's dog and she's off a buddy.
Yeah and that's absolutely fantastic.
That's $20,000.
Yeah I think she won $23,000, $24,000.
Yeah.
You just look down through the records and there's just not that many that aren't walkers

(01:12:17):
that have done that.
So I think in the black and tan for the PKC breed thing, I think Poncho's won the breed
hunt, Sadie won the breed hunt, Rapper was second the year that Sadie won it, Buddy was
third one year.
I think in the last 10 years, it's been almost a black river dog.

(01:12:39):
Yeah.
About every year.
And that's fantastic, you know.
They've been in the final four, I would say the last eight to 10 years.
Like do you feel, you've got to feel a sense of pride.
Oh I mean I'm proud of these dogs.
Yeah, as you should be.
Yeah.
They've been good to you.
You've had great success with them.
Do you ever feel like you would ever entertain hunting something other than a black and tan?

(01:13:03):
Are you a black and tan man to the day you die?
You know, I guess until I run out of this line of dogs, like I've done it for 23 years
and had the same line, I keep breeding my own dogs and they keep producing good ones.
Yeah.
So I feel like I'm, I mean I got frozen semen on all my dogs, so I feel like I always will
have something.
Yeah.

(01:13:23):
But I highly doubt I'll be hunting anything else.
Right.
But if I do, it'd be a plot.
A plot dog?
I saw one running around here whenever I pulled in here tonight.
The old plot dog.
You know, I always thought it'd be cool to have a plot dog that was good with it.
Well maybe we can hook you up with the old Steve Fielder.
Get you some bear pen fever, catch the fever.
Yeah.

(01:13:44):
Hey, you know, this has been fantastic, but I do want to circle around to something else
that, and this is just a chance on a public forum to give credit where credit is due,
and that is to your sister.
Oh yeah.
You know, guys, Dr. Brook Little has been absolutely fantastic.
You've heard what she did with Gaucho, and Chad just said something, you know, she might
not know it, but she's going to research it and figure it out.

(01:14:06):
Oh yeah.
And you know, that's something that she did with me, with wheels.
And you guys have heard me talk about it, but you know, this summer, wheels was down
and out.
Like, I didn't know what I was doing.
I was embarrassed to take the dog out.
I couldn't win a cast if you put me in there with a poodle.
Couldn't win a cast.
And you know, taking the dog over to Brook and she is a vet who you can sit there and

(01:14:26):
talk to and she will listen.
She's not trying to push you through to get to her next appointment.
She understands these hounds and their job and their purpose and will take the time to
figure it out.
You know, I was super impressed whenever we figured out that, you know, wheels was dealing
with their Lycea.
She called me one day and I don't even know if you know this or not, but she called me

(01:14:48):
and we had a 45 minute conversation in the middle of the day on the phone.
And I feel like that is unheard of with a vet because in 45 minutes, think of how many
dogs they can see in that time.
You know, they can push them through, but she, her and I went back and forth on treatment
options and weighing the pros and cons and what to do with it.

(01:15:09):
And I had mentioned that I was all shot to her and she's like, look, I don't know a ton
about it, but give me a couple of days to figure it out.
And I was like, okay.
I said, but I think this is a route that I need to go.
And I've heard of other vets not wanting to use it.
Yeah.
And she called me back two days later and she said, Hey, I've done my research on it.
She's like, I think that it is a treatment that will work.

(01:15:30):
She's like, I want to administer it that way that everything is done correctly, bring the
dog in and we'll, and we'll do this treatment and see what happens with him.
And I'm telling you, my experience over there at Eaton veterinary clinic has been second
to none.
It's fantastic.
And I just want to give her a shout out because she does a really good job.
Oh, I've, I've sent a lot of Coon hunters there because Brooke understands that Coon

(01:15:55):
hunters are different than like your normal people, you know, and she'll listen to you.
If you think your dog ain't doing this or that, right.
She's willing to listen and we'll try things.
Yeah.
And she's actually fixed quite a few dogs in the last few months that I know that are
big winners that started, you know, doing something that they normally wouldn't do.

(01:16:16):
And she's figured it out and got them right.
Yeah.
Cause I've been to other vets and I tell them, Hey, my dog's just not operating the same.
And I'm not saying they don't know what they're talking about, but they don't, they don't
dive into it the way that she dives into it.
And they don't understand that, you know, we spend so many hours with these dogs and
we know their every move and they make an off bark.
We know when they, we know what they're doing.

(01:16:36):
Like we were in sync with these dogs.
It's not just a dog who lays on the couch and you feed them a pizza roll, you know,
every time.
Like, yeah, those people spend a lot of time with their dogs too, but you know, it's just
not the same.
You're not on the same wavelength.
And, but she takes so much pride in her, her, her customers, her, her dogs, her patients
and making sure that they get the best care, the best treatment.

(01:16:57):
Her staff is great.
I mean, I've had nothing but good experiences over there and you know, they're constantly
improving the facility over there.
I see where she's just doing some additions there onto the facility.
And, and even go so far as the little, the littlest things whenever at the world hunt,
I think there was three or four of her patients that were in the top 100 and she made a little
Facebook post, you know, congratulations to our patients.

(01:17:18):
We and a quote that stuck out to me, she said, we love seeing our patients do what they are
bred to do.
Yep.
And I was like, that is impressive to me because a lot of people don't understand that these
are working dogs.
They have a job.
We care about them.
I mean, you just sat there and told a story about how you took an IV bag all the way to
Mississippi for your dog.
Oh yeah.
You know, and she, she showed you how to do it.

(01:17:39):
She showed me how to do it.
And he got four bags of IV floods, you know, why is down there the whole time?
Yeah.
Just to keep him going.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I just want to give a big shout out to her.
Hopefully she listens to this podcast and she understands how much we appreciate her
and what she does over there because you know, it's an hour and a half almost for me to get
over here to her.
Oh yeah.
But there is not a vet with any other, any closer distance that I would trust my dog

(01:18:01):
with right now.
You know, wheels are sick or if I got another dog sick, load them up.
We're driving up.
We're not eating, you know, it's worth it for me to know that I'm going to be putting
good hands and have good care.
So just Brooke, thank you for what you do.
But I think that is really covered about everything.
I want to talk about, you got anything that we've missed?
Oh, I imagine there's dogs of the past that I, you know, you could talk about, but that

(01:18:27):
could be hours.
It could, it could be, you know, this, this has been fantastic.
And guys, I just wanted to say thank you to Chad for sitting down with me because I know
he's a busy man.
He's horses by day, he runs a farm.
He's got part to do with the vet clinic.
I mean, he's got a ton going on, but you know, and not to do his own horn, but he's got some
of the best black dogs in the country and, and for God have all that going on and take
these, take them to these major events consistently when, and I feel like you show up with a target

(01:18:50):
on your back sometimes too.
Oh, I guarantee I do.
You know, it is what it is when you're at the top.
Yeah.
Would you, if you, you win, they don't like you.
If you're not winning, they're your best friend.
Yeah.
Well, you'll have that.
Chad, thanks again for sitting down with us today, man.
I appreciate you joining us here on the Simper Dog and podcast.
Uh, look, look forward to see what you guys can do in the future with Ohando and hopefully

(01:19:12):
you'll keep pushing old lefty and Goucho and put some more wins on them.
So plan on it.
Maybe Brad can step it up a little bit, help you out, you know, pull some pull his weight.
Yeah.
We just need Bryce to switch over these black ones.
Oh, I don't know.
I lefty put on a convincing argument.
He did.
He really did put on a convincing argument.
Yep.
So I don't know, man.

(01:19:33):
I sure appreciate it.
It's been fun.
So with that, I think we're gonna wrap this up.
And like I said, I just appreciate you taking time to join us today.
Thank you, buddy.
All right, guys.
Well, thank you for joining us here on the Simper Dog and podcast.
We've hope you'd enjoyed this one.
Make sure you follow us on our Facebook group, the Simper Dog and Facebook group, where,
or a simple dog and podcast group where we go live every other Tuesday for the dog and
Tuesday events.
Those are, uh, interactive events where we go live bash them and I, and you guys can

(01:19:57):
comment on there.
You can interact with us.
We just have a heck of a time over there.
It's super fun.
There's a lot of good old Coon hunting ribbon going on back and forth over there.
And it's not all Coon dogs either.
So if you're somebody listening to this, who wants to hear about something other than Coon
dogs, join us over there on the dog and Tuesdays every other Tuesday.
We appreciate everybody that lets us do what we do here.
And once again, we couldn't do without you listeners.
So thank you guys so much for joining Chad McCoy and I, Black River Kennels on the Simper

(01:20:19):
Dog and podcast.
And with that, we'll see you later.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Boysober

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chad McCoin: Black River Black & Tans

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Boysober

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Chad McCoin: Black River Black & Tans

Stuff You Should Know